Browse content similar to 20/11/2017. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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Hello, it's Monday, it's 9am,
I'm Victoria Derbyshire, | 0:00:07 | 0:00:10 | |
welcome to the programme. | 0:00:10 | 0:00:12 | |
Our top story today,
Robert Mugabe has an hour to resign | 0:00:12 | 0:00:18 | |
as President of Zimbabwe or face
impeachment - he certainly showed no | 0:00:18 | 0:00:21 | |
signs of resigning last night. | 0:00:21 | 0:00:25 | |
The operation I have alluded to did
not amount to a threat to our well | 0:00:25 | 0:00:33 | |
cherished constitutional order, nor
was it a challenge to my authority | 0:00:33 | 0:00:39 | |
as head of state and government. | 0:00:39 | 0:00:41 | |
We'll get reaction from some
of those who've been tortured | 0:00:41 | 0:00:44 | |
by the Mugabe regime. | 0:00:44 | 0:00:45 | |
Also on the programme -
punishment attacks featuring | 0:00:45 | 0:00:47 | |
kneecapping or assaults
using anything from sledgehammers | 0:00:47 | 0:00:53 | |
to electric drills are taking place
in this country right now. | 0:00:53 | 0:01:00 | |
I walked to the place that they told
me to go and they were standing | 0:01:00 | 0:01:06 | |
there. They showed me the gun and
told me to lie down on the floor. | 0:01:06 | 0:01:09 | |
That was it. | 0:01:09 | 0:01:15 | |
We'll find out why so-called
punishment attacks by paramilitaries | 0:01:15 | 0:01:17 | |
are on the rise in Northern Ireland. | 0:01:17 | 0:01:19 | |
And it's 70 years since the Queen
and Prince Phillip got married. | 0:01:19 | 0:01:24 | |
It is their platinum anniversary
today. | 0:01:24 | 0:01:26 | |
We'll look back at a
relationship which has been | 0:01:26 | 0:01:28 | |
a constant in British life. | 0:01:28 | 0:01:38 | |
Hello and welcome to the programme,
we're live until 11am. | 0:01:38 | 0:01:47 | |
Throughout the programme,
the latest breaking news | 0:01:47 | 0:01:48 | |
and developing stories -
and as always really | 0:01:48 | 0:01:50 | |
keen to hear from you -
do get in touch on all the stories | 0:01:50 | 0:01:54 | |
we're talking about this morning. | 0:01:54 | 0:01:56 | |
Our top story today,
Zimbabwe's president Robert Mugabe | 0:01:56 | 0:01:58 | |
has less than an hour to resign,
before a 10 o'clock deadline | 0:01:58 | 0:02:01 | |
set by his own party. | 0:02:01 | 0:02:02 | |
He was removed as leader yesterday,
but in a rambling television address | 0:02:02 | 0:02:05 | |
in which he was expected to resign
as president, he refused and instead | 0:02:05 | 0:02:08 | |
insisted he would lead the party's
congress next month. | 0:02:08 | 0:02:11 | |
Former allies have condemned
his decision and over | 0:02:11 | 0:02:12 | |
the weekend huge street rallies
demanded his resignation. | 0:02:12 | 0:02:22 | |
If he doesn't step down, his party,
Zanu-PF, says he will be impeached. | 0:02:22 | 0:02:29 | |
The influential head of the war
veterans organisation said | 0:02:29 | 0:02:31 | |
they would initiate legal action
in the High Court to | 0:02:31 | 0:02:34 | |
remove President Mubabe. | 0:02:34 | 0:02:35 | |
They also repeated their calls
for him to be impeached | 0:02:35 | 0:02:37 | |
and for further protests, including
a sit-in to force him to resign. | 0:02:37 | 0:02:46 | |
He went on national television
to pretend as if everything | 0:02:46 | 0:02:49 | |
is normal and he said he would be
attending his party congress. | 0:02:49 | 0:02:51 | |
We are saying, Mugabe, go now. | 0:02:51 | 0:02:53 | |
Mugabe, go now. | 0:02:53 | 0:02:54 | |
Your time is up. | 0:02:54 | 0:02:55 | |
Please leave State House and let
the country start on a new page. | 0:02:55 | 0:03:05 | |
You should have the dignity
and decency to spare the country | 0:03:07 | 0:03:10 | |
further turmoil by simply
announcing your | 0:03:10 | 0:03:11 | |
departure immediately. | 0:03:11 | 0:03:16 | |
If he can't, and this is the call
we are doing and repeating again | 0:03:16 | 0:03:20 | |
from when we came here on Thursday
last week, we are bringing back the | 0:03:20 | 0:03:23 | |
people of Zimbabwe to the streets. | 0:03:23 | 0:03:25 | |
You will then have to settle these
issues with the people of Zimbabwe. | 0:03:25 | 0:03:30 | |
Ben Brown is in the
Zimbabwean capital Harare. | 0:03:30 | 0:03:36 | |
Are you getting any sense of what
might happen in an hour, if | 0:03:36 | 0:03:38 | |
anything? I am not getting a sense
that he is going to resign. Until we | 0:03:38 | 0:03:47 | |
hear it from his mouth, no one will
believe he is going to resign. | 0:03:47 | 0:03:51 | |
Everyone was expecting him to resign
last night after his own party, | 0:03:51 | 0:03:56 | |
Zanu-PF, had sacked him as their
leader, after the military had had | 0:03:56 | 0:03:59 | |
their takeover here, and after
seeing thousands of people on the | 0:03:59 | 0:04:03 | |
streets here in Harare on Saturday.
So much pressure from the people, | 0:04:03 | 0:04:08 | |
from the Army, from his own party to
resign. Everyone thought he would | 0:04:08 | 0:04:12 | |
last night, and then he didn't. He
is nothing if not stubborn. He is | 0:04:12 | 0:04:16 | |
the world's oldest head of state, 93
years of age, and still technically | 0:04:16 | 0:04:20 | |
president of this country although
extraordinarily, he is still under | 0:04:20 | 0:04:25 | |
house arrest. So the impeachment
process will begin if he continues | 0:04:25 | 0:04:30 | |
to refuse to resign. In the
parliament behind me in Harare, it | 0:04:30 | 0:04:35 | |
would need both chambers of
parliament to agree with a two | 0:04:35 | 0:04:39 | |
thirds majority to impeach him. I
was talking to one MP this morning | 0:04:39 | 0:04:42 | |
who said that that could take weeks
or even months, and that means Mr | 0:04:42 | 0:04:46 | |
Mugabe could still be president in
2018. And in the meantime, the | 0:04:46 | 0:04:53 | |
citizens of Zimbabwe today where
industry is over the weekend -- they | 0:04:53 | 0:04:58 | |
were on the streets. What are they
doing today? It is fair to say they | 0:04:58 | 0:05:04 | |
are disappointed. They watched that
TV address in their millions. They | 0:05:04 | 0:05:08 | |
were expecting him to resign. Almost
everybody you talk to want him to | 0:05:08 | 0:05:12 | |
go. It is almost impossible to find
anyone who wants him to stay. So | 0:05:12 | 0:05:17 | |
they are disappointed and angry. Let
me show you just one newspaper front | 0:05:17 | 0:05:21 | |
page from this morning. " Arrogant
Mugabe disregards Zanu-PF". That is | 0:05:21 | 0:05:31 | |
just a flavour of how people are
thinking. There has been a call for | 0:05:31 | 0:05:35 | |
another big demonstration on the
streets tomorrow. Maybe we will see | 0:05:35 | 0:05:39 | |
thousands more people calling for Mr
Mugabe to resign, but frankly, he | 0:05:39 | 0:05:43 | |
doesn't listen to the people and I
don't think you will make any | 0:05:43 | 0:05:45 | |
difference. Thank you, Ben.
Obviously, as things continue to | 0:05:45 | 0:05:54 | |
change in Harare, we will be their
live for much of the morning, | 0:05:54 | 0:05:58 | |
talking to residents of Zimbabwe and
we will of course be there at ten | 0:05:58 | 0:06:01 | |
o'clock when that deadline passes.
Let me bring you this news. Jana | 0:06:01 | 0:06:07 | |
Novotna has died. She was Wimbledon
champion in 1998. She was just 49. | 0:06:07 | 0:06:17 | |
Here is the statement. After a long
battle with cancer, Jana Novotna | 0:06:17 | 0:06:21 | |
died peacefully, surrounded by
friends and family in her native | 0:06:21 | 0:06:25 | |
Czech Republic. She has died aged
49. She had cancer. More on that to | 0:06:25 | 0:06:35 | |
come in the sport in a few moments. | 0:06:35 | 0:06:37 | |
Now a summary of the rest
of the day's news. | 0:06:37 | 0:06:44 | |
Germany is on the cusp
of a political crisis | 0:06:44 | 0:06:46 | |
following the collapse of talks over
the formation of a | 0:06:46 | 0:06:48 | |
coalition government. | 0:06:48 | 0:06:50 | |
Eight weeks of negotiations
following September's general | 0:06:50 | 0:06:57 | |
election have collapsed,
with the centrist Free | 0:06:57 | 0:06:59 | |
Democrats pulling out. | 0:06:59 | 0:07:00 | |
Angela Merkel will meet
the German President | 0:07:00 | 0:07:02 | |
who could call a new election. | 0:07:02 | 0:07:04 | |
Police say there were no injuries
to suggest "any other person | 0:07:04 | 0:07:07 | |
was involved" in the death
of the missing teenager Gaia Pope. | 0:07:07 | 0:07:10 | |
The 19-year-old's body was found
on Saturday in a field near Swanage, | 0:07:10 | 0:07:12 | |
11 days after she was last seen. | 0:07:12 | 0:07:14 | |
Dorset Police are treating her death
as "unexplained" pending | 0:07:14 | 0:07:16 | |
toxicology results. | 0:07:16 | 0:07:24 | |
Women are being advised to sleep
on their side in the last three | 0:07:24 | 0:07:28 | |
months of pregnancy to avoid having
a stillborn baby. | 0:07:28 | 0:07:32 | |
A study of just over 1,000 women
found the risk doubles if women go | 0:07:32 | 0:07:38 | |
to sleep on their backs,
but researchers say | 0:07:38 | 0:07:40 | |
women should not worry
if they are on their back | 0:07:40 | 0:07:42 | |
when they wake up. | 0:07:42 | 0:07:46 | |
The study authors estimate that
about 130 babies' lives a year | 0:07:46 | 0:07:48 | |
could be saved if this advice
was followed. | 0:07:48 | 0:07:50 | |
MPs are calling for a crackdown
on the so-called "gig economy". | 0:07:50 | 0:07:59 | |
Delivery riders and minicab drivers
for firms like Deliveroo and Uber | 0:07:59 | 0:08:02 | |
are being exploited by loopholes
in employment law, according | 0:08:02 | 0:08:04 | |
to two committees of MPs. | 0:08:04 | 0:08:08 | |
They say they face an "unacceptable
burden" of having to prove | 0:08:08 | 0:08:11 | |
they are "workers",
rather than self-employed. | 0:08:11 | 0:08:18 | |
The Government says it's already
considering the findings of a review | 0:08:18 | 0:08:20 | |
of working practices. | 0:08:20 | 0:08:23 | |
The convicted cult
leader Charles Manson - | 0:08:23 | 0:08:25 | |
who orchestrated a series
of notorious murders in the 1960s - | 0:08:25 | 0:08:30 | |
has died in prison in
California at the age of 83. | 0:08:30 | 0:08:34 | |
In 1969, members of his group killed
seven people including | 0:08:34 | 0:08:37 | |
the actress Sharon Tate,
wife of the film director, | 0:08:37 | 0:08:39 | |
Roman Polanski. | 0:08:39 | 0:08:40 | |
Manson himself was initially
sentenced to death, before | 0:08:40 | 0:08:42 | |
the penalty was abolished
in California. | 0:08:42 | 0:08:47 | |
Church leaders across
Northern Ireland have released | 0:08:47 | 0:08:49 | |
a statement condemning so-called
"punishment" attacks | 0:08:49 | 0:08:54 | |
by paramilitaries. | 0:08:54 | 0:08:58 | |
They can take the form
of kneecappings, where victims | 0:08:58 | 0:09:00 | |
are shot in the legs,
or serious beatings | 0:09:00 | 0:09:02 | |
with weapons like iron bars. | 0:09:02 | 0:09:03 | |
They've been declining
in recent years, but saw | 0:09:03 | 0:09:05 | |
an increase of 30% last year. | 0:09:05 | 0:09:13 | |
You can watch our report including
exclusive interviews with two | 0:09:13 | 0:09:17 | |
teenagers who were shot in the knees
by paramilitaries, coming | 0:09:17 | 0:09:19 | |
up in a few minutes. | 0:09:19 | 0:09:20 | |
The Queen and Duke
of Edinburgh are today | 0:09:20 | 0:09:22 | |
marking their 70th wedding
anniversary - the longest | 0:09:22 | 0:09:25 | |
in the royal family's history. | 0:09:25 | 0:09:26 | |
They will celebrate the occasion
privately with family | 0:09:26 | 0:09:28 | |
and friends at Windsor Castle. | 0:09:28 | 0:09:29 | |
Our royal correspondent
Sarah Campbell reports. | 0:09:29 | 0:09:38 | |
In the gloom of post-war Britain,
their marriage was, in the words | 0:09:38 | 0:09:43 | |
of Winston Churchill,
a flash of colour. | 0:09:43 | 0:09:47 | |
He was the dashing naval officer,
she the future Queen. | 0:09:47 | 0:09:50 | |
In the 70 years since,
theirs has proved to be | 0:09:50 | 0:09:53 | |
a relationship which has truly stood
the test of time. | 0:09:53 | 0:09:57 | |
It's worked because their
personalities and their characters | 0:09:57 | 0:09:59 | |
complement one another. | 0:09:59 | 0:10:04 | |
They're quite different,
in many ways, but Prince Philip | 0:10:04 | 0:10:13 | |
is the first to make the Queen laugh
uproariously, and is probably | 0:10:13 | 0:10:15 | |
the only person who can also
tell her to shut up. | 0:10:15 | 0:10:18 | |
Pictured in 1939, 18-year-old Philip
first caught Princess Elizabeth's | 0:10:18 | 0:10:20 | |
eye on a visit to Dartmouth Naval
College. | 0:10:20 | 0:10:23 | |
It was the beginning
of a friendship which grew | 0:10:23 | 0:10:26 | |
into a lifelong partnership. | 0:10:26 | 0:10:27 | |
The Queen has referred to him
as her strength and stay. | 0:10:27 | 0:10:35 | |
The Duke remarked that
tolerance is essential | 0:10:35 | 0:10:37 | |
to any happy marriage,
and the Queen, he added, | 0:10:37 | 0:10:39 | |
has that quality in abundance. | 0:10:39 | 0:10:41 | |
70 years after the royal couple
exchanged their vows here, | 0:10:41 | 0:10:43 | |
the bells of Westminster Abbey
will peal for more than three | 0:10:43 | 0:10:46 | |
hours in their honour. | 0:10:46 | 0:10:49 | |
These images have been released
by the Palace to mark the couple's | 0:10:49 | 0:10:52 | |
milestone anniversary. | 0:10:52 | 0:10:59 | |
The Queen and Prince Philip
will celebrate at a private party | 0:10:59 | 0:11:01 | |
at Windsor Castle this evening. | 0:11:01 | 0:11:03 | |
That's a summary of the latest BBC
News - more at 9.30. | 0:11:03 | 0:11:13 | |
There are a couple of lines coming
out of Zimbabwe, according to the | 0:11:14 | 0:11:18 | |
Reuters news agency. They don't
necessarily make the situation | 0:11:18 | 0:11:22 | |
clearer. According to senior
political sources, Robert Mugabe's | 0:11:22 | 0:11:26 | |
speech last night was intended to
make clear that the military | 0:11:26 | 0:11:30 | |
intervention last week was not a
clue. -- it was not a coup. Mr | 0:11:30 | 0:11:40 | |
Mugabe was supposed to say that in
his speech. The second line is that | 0:11:40 | 0:11:44 | |
Robert Mugabe had agreed to resign,
but Zanu-PF, his party, did not want | 0:11:44 | 0:11:51 | |
him to step down in front of the
generals. That is according to | 0:11:51 | 0:11:56 | |
senior political sources talking to
the Reuters news agency. As I said, | 0:11:56 | 0:12:00 | |
that does not necessarily make the
situation clearer. Does that suggest | 0:12:00 | 0:12:04 | |
that at ten o'clock, when this
imposed deadline reaches us, he will | 0:12:04 | 0:12:08 | |
step down if the generals are not
the picture? Stay tuned, and we will | 0:12:08 | 0:12:13 | |
try to bring the latest. Let me
bring you these comments about | 0:12:13 | 0:12:21 | |
punishment attacks, which are on the
rise in Northern Ireland and a lot | 0:12:21 | 0:12:26 | |
of the victims are under 25, some
including children. And we are | 0:12:26 | 0:12:33 | |
talking predominantly about boys
being shot in the back of the knee | 0:12:33 | 0:12:37 | |
as punishment for petty crime, for
stealing a car, for drug dealing. | 0:12:37 | 0:12:44 | |
Inclusive 2017 says young teenage
boys are being maimed. Politicians | 0:12:44 | 0:12:47 | |
fail to act. In Northern Ireland, we
need a strategy to end violence | 0:12:47 | 0:12:51 | |
against men and boys. We are beaten,
shot and assaulted daily. Another | 0:12:51 | 0:12:57 | |
says, these brutal attacks on young
people need to stop. The | 0:12:57 | 0:13:00 | |
victimisation needs to stop. These
young people need a chance in life. | 0:13:00 | 0:13:06 | |
This is abuse and it is child abuse.
Our film on that is coming up. If | 0:13:06 | 0:13:10 | |
you are getting in touch, you are
very welcome. | 0:13:10 | 0:13:13 | |
Let's get some sport with Jessica. | 0:13:13 | 0:13:15 | |
Sad news from the world
of tennis this morning? | 0:13:15 | 0:13:20 | |
Yes, we have had it confirmed in the
last half-hour that the former | 0:13:20 | 0:13:26 | |
Wimbledon champion Jana Novotna has
died aged 49. We have a statement | 0:13:26 | 0:13:32 | |
from the women's tennis Association,
the WTA. They say "It is with deep | 0:13:32 | 0:13:38 | |
sadness that we announce the passing
on Sunday of Yana Novotna, the | 0:13:38 | 0:13:43 | |
former WTA world number one and
number two singles champion. After a | 0:13:43 | 0:13:48 | |
long battle with cancer, Jana died
peacefully, surrounded by her family | 0:13:48 | 0:13:53 | |
in her native Czech Republic. The
CEO of the WTA, Steve Simon, said | 0:13:53 | 0:14:02 | |
Jana was an inspiration both on and
off court to anyone who had the | 0:14:02 | 0:14:07 | |
opportunity to know her. Her star
will always shine brightly in the | 0:14:07 | 0:14:10 | |
history of the WTA. It goes on to
say "Our condolences and our | 0:14:10 | 0:14:17 | |
thoughts are with Jana's family" | 0:14:17 | 0:14:20 | |
say "Our condolences and our
thoughts are with Jana's family". It | 0:14:20 | 0:14:22 | |
was 1998 when she won Wimbledon and
lots of people will remember her | 0:14:22 | 0:14:25 | |
reaction afterwards. Yes. She will
be well known to British tennis | 0:14:25 | 0:14:31 | |
fans. She captured the hearts of
many when she burst into tears after | 0:14:31 | 0:14:35 | |
losing to the German great Steffi
Graf in 1993, she was consoled by | 0:14:35 | 0:14:43 | |
the Duchess of Kent. She was
renowned for her serve in the volley | 0:14:43 | 0:14:46 | |
game and achieve a career-high
singles ranking of number two. She | 0:14:46 | 0:14:51 | |
was twice a beaten finalist, in 1993
and 1997. But a year later, it was | 0:14:51 | 0:14:58 | |
third time lucky for Novotna. Of her
career, she won 24 singles titles in | 0:14:58 | 0:15:04 | |
14 years on the professional
circuit, along with 76 doubles | 0:15:04 | 0:15:09 | |
titles. And she was inducted into
the tennis hall of fame in 2005. But | 0:15:09 | 0:15:16 | |
it is sad news from the world of
tennis that Jana Novotna has died | 0:15:16 | 0:15:24 | |
after a battle with cancer, aged 49. | 0:15:24 | 0:15:28 | |
They're a legacy of decades
in conflict in Northern Ireland - | 0:15:30 | 0:15:34 | |
so-called "punishment" attacks
by paramilitaries, usually | 0:15:34 | 0:15:39 | |
kneecappings or serious beatings
using anything from an iron bar | 0:15:39 | 0:15:41 | |
to an electric drill. | 0:15:41 | 0:15:43 | |
Those responsible claim it's a way
of clamping down on crime | 0:15:43 | 0:15:46 | |
and anti-social behaviour
in their community. | 0:15:46 | 0:15:50 | |
If you deal drugs, for instance,
you face being kneecapped. | 0:15:50 | 0:15:53 | |
And now, after a period of decline,
these attacks are on the rise, | 0:15:53 | 0:15:56 | |
with a 30% increase over
the last year. | 0:15:56 | 0:15:58 | |
Almost half of those
targeted are 25 or under. | 0:15:58 | 0:16:05 | |
Today, church leaders
across Northern Ireland have | 0:16:05 | 0:16:07 | |
for the first time
released a statement | 0:16:07 | 0:16:09 | |
condemning the threat
against young people, | 0:16:09 | 0:16:11 | |
timed to coincide with the United
Nations Universal Children's Day. | 0:16:11 | 0:16:14 | |
This programme has spoken
exclusively to two teenagers | 0:16:14 | 0:16:21 | |
about their experience of being shot
by paramilitaries and to the PSNI | 0:16:21 | 0:16:24 | |
officers leading the fight
against the attacks. | 0:16:24 | 0:16:27 | |
Some of the details
in Greg Dawson's report are graphic | 0:16:27 | 0:16:29 | |
from the very beginning
and you may not want | 0:16:29 | 0:16:32 | |
young children to hear. | 0:16:32 | 0:16:35 | |
Police have just released details
of what they believe | 0:16:35 | 0:16:38 | |
was a paramilitary-style attack
on a teenager in Londonderry just | 0:16:38 | 0:16:40 | |
after midnight yesterday morning... | 0:16:40 | 0:16:42 | |
...After being shot in the legs
at their home in west Belfast. | 0:16:42 | 0:16:45 | |
It happened just
after six o'clock... | 0:16:45 | 0:16:51 | |
...The vicim's injuries aren't
believed to be life-threatening. | 0:16:51 | 0:16:53 | |
I walked to the place,
and they told me to go, | 0:16:53 | 0:16:56 | |
and they were standing there. | 0:16:56 | 0:16:57 | |
They showed me the gun and told me
to lie down on the floor. | 0:16:57 | 0:17:00 | |
That was it. | 0:17:00 | 0:17:03 | |
The first time they shot me,
I only moved a bit, but see | 0:17:03 | 0:17:06 | |
the second time they shot me,
I was screaming. | 0:17:06 | 0:17:08 | |
It went right through
and hit my main artery, | 0:17:08 | 0:17:10 | |
busted my whole kneebone. | 0:17:10 | 0:17:14 | |
A 17-year-old boy has been shot
in the leg after two masked men... | 0:17:14 | 0:17:17 | |
It's an enormous human rights abuse,
whatever the age of the person, | 0:17:17 | 0:17:20 | |
but it's happening a lot
against young people and children. | 0:17:20 | 0:17:23 | |
If you speak to young
people in the communities, | 0:17:23 | 0:17:25 | |
I think they'll tell
you there is a climate | 0:17:25 | 0:17:27 | |
of fear for them. | 0:17:27 | 0:17:28 | |
We have a choice here,
this doesn't need to be | 0:17:28 | 0:17:31 | |
the future of our children. | 0:17:31 | 0:17:36 | |
Belfast is a city that
prides itself on its progress. | 0:17:49 | 0:17:53 | |
From the darkest depths
of the Troubles, it has emerged | 0:17:53 | 0:17:56 | |
as one of the UK's most
popular tourist destinations. | 0:17:56 | 0:18:04 | |
But in small pockets of this city,
there are many communities | 0:18:04 | 0:18:07 | |
still living with the legacy
of Northern Ireland's | 0:18:07 | 0:18:08 | |
division and violence. | 0:18:08 | 0:18:10 | |
Many of the recent victims
of paramilitary threats and attacks | 0:18:10 | 0:18:13 | |
will have little memory
of the Good Friday Agreement. | 0:18:13 | 0:18:16 | |
Some were born long after it. | 0:18:16 | 0:18:23 | |
We've come out with the Police
Service of Northern Ireland's | 0:18:24 | 0:18:28 | |
new task force, set up specifically
to tackle paramilitaries, | 0:18:28 | 0:18:33 | |
the armed groups active in both
Protestant loyalist areas | 0:18:33 | 0:18:35 | |
and Catholic republican communities. | 0:18:35 | 0:18:38 | |
We're leaving the Lower Shankill
and we're going to go | 0:18:38 | 0:18:40 | |
in from a loyalist... | 0:18:40 | 0:18:44 | |
...the nationalist Catholic area. | 0:18:44 | 0:18:47 | |
But certain paramilitary groups
still see it as their role to police | 0:18:47 | 0:18:50 | |
these communities and crack down
on what they judge to be | 0:18:50 | 0:18:52 | |
anti-social behaviour. | 0:18:52 | 0:18:56 | |
Even in 2017, the self appointed men
in charge assert control | 0:18:56 | 0:18:59 | |
with baseball bats and bullets. | 0:18:59 | 0:19:01 | |
We've spoken to two young victims
of paramilitary-style attacks. | 0:19:01 | 0:19:06 | |
James and Thomas, not their real
names, were shot in the legs. | 0:19:06 | 0:19:10 | |
For their safety, we've hidden
their faces and voiced their words. | 0:19:10 | 0:19:18 | |
They got in contact
with someone in the family. | 0:19:18 | 0:19:20 | |
They told me I had
to go and meet them. | 0:19:20 | 0:19:22 | |
I changed my trousers,
went out of my house | 0:19:22 | 0:19:24 | |
and went to the pub. | 0:19:24 | 0:19:27 | |
I had two pints and I got a text
message that I had to go, | 0:19:27 | 0:19:31 | |
so I walked over on my own,
and that was it. | 0:19:31 | 0:19:33 | |
I walked to the place
and they told me to go, | 0:19:33 | 0:19:36 | |
and they were standing there. | 0:19:36 | 0:19:37 | |
They showed me the gun and told me
to lie down on the floor. | 0:19:37 | 0:19:41 | |
That was it. | 0:19:41 | 0:19:44 | |
How did you feel when you were
making that walk over from the pub? | 0:19:44 | 0:19:48 | |
I was scared, of
course I was scared. | 0:19:48 | 0:19:50 | |
I was fearing for my life,
in case they did something else. | 0:19:50 | 0:19:53 | |
Someone who was really,
really close to me was first | 0:19:53 | 0:19:56 | |
out because they knew
I was getting shot. | 0:19:56 | 0:19:58 | |
They brought out a pillow,
and then the ambulance came. | 0:19:58 | 0:20:02 | |
The first time they shot me,
I only moved a bit. | 0:20:02 | 0:20:05 | |
But, see, the second time
they shot me, I was screaming. | 0:20:05 | 0:20:11 | |
It went right through
and hit my main artery. | 0:20:11 | 0:20:14 | |
Busted my whole kneebone,
know what I mean? | 0:20:14 | 0:20:16 | |
I couldn't even move my leg. | 0:20:16 | 0:20:20 | |
There ended up being loads of people
around me and I asked | 0:20:20 | 0:20:23 | |
someone for a fag, and then
I just went blank. | 0:20:23 | 0:20:25 | |
And all I remember was just waking
up in the ambulance. | 0:20:25 | 0:20:33 | |
These paramilitary-style attacks may
have been happening in certain | 0:20:33 | 0:20:35 | |
communities in Northern Ireland
for decades, but after a fall | 0:20:35 | 0:20:38 | |
in recent years, the numbers
are creeping back up. | 0:20:38 | 0:20:44 | |
In 2016-2017, there were 94 reported
casualties of shootings | 0:20:44 | 0:20:47 | |
and assaults, that's up 30%
on the previous year. | 0:20:47 | 0:20:51 | |
Attacks are currently
at their highest level since 2010, | 0:20:51 | 0:20:55 | |
and, since 2009, 47% of attacks
targeted people aged 25 and under. | 0:20:55 | 0:21:02 | |
The actions of these paramilitary
groups range from everything | 0:21:02 | 0:21:07 | |
from threats to individuals,
either in person or by proxy, | 0:21:07 | 0:21:10 | |
up to beatings, and right up
to the end of the scale which can | 0:21:10 | 0:21:15 | |
include serious assault, shootings,
and, on occasion, has resulted | 0:21:15 | 0:21:17 | |
in the murder of individuals. | 0:21:17 | 0:21:19 | |
This 15-year-old from Londonderry
is a recent victim. | 0:21:19 | 0:21:20 | |
In June, he was beaten with iron
bars, including this one that | 0:21:20 | 0:21:24 | |
officers in Derry recovered. | 0:21:24 | 0:21:29 | |
Paul Smith is a youth worker and has
devoted years to campaigning | 0:21:29 | 0:21:32 | |
and speaking out against attacks. | 0:21:32 | 0:21:36 | |
There isn't any due process
involved, nobody appears in front | 0:21:36 | 0:21:39 | |
of a court and can defend
themselves, and a lot of the victims | 0:21:39 | 0:21:42 | |
end up being traumatised
for the rest of their lives. | 0:21:42 | 0:21:46 | |
One of the hallmarks
of these attacks is that | 0:21:46 | 0:21:50 | |
many of the victims
know it is coming. | 0:21:50 | 0:21:53 | |
They're often given notice
to attend an appointment. | 0:21:53 | 0:21:56 | |
Last month, this flyer was posted
through doors in West Belfast. | 0:21:56 | 0:21:59 | |
It lists the names of 14 men accused
of selling drugs and orders them | 0:21:59 | 0:22:03 | |
to come forward to the Republican
movement, adding that failure to do | 0:22:03 | 0:22:06 | |
so could result in execution. | 0:22:06 | 0:22:11 | |
In some cases, parents of victims
are faced with a dreadful dilemma - | 0:22:11 | 0:22:14 | |
protect their child,
or hand them over to paramilitary | 0:22:14 | 0:22:17 | |
groups for appointments. | 0:22:17 | 0:22:22 | |
See, I used to be a happy child,
always up and bouncing. | 0:22:22 | 0:22:25 | |
Then I did one or two bad things,
and they were just picking | 0:22:25 | 0:22:28 | |
on me and picking on me. | 0:22:28 | 0:22:29 | |
I was trying to change my life
around and they were | 0:22:29 | 0:22:32 | |
still picking on me. | 0:22:32 | 0:22:33 | |
They put me out of the country,
and then my mummy visited me | 0:22:33 | 0:22:36 | |
and said, "Listen, I've been talking
to someone to try and sort it out. | 0:22:36 | 0:22:39 | |
To get someone to give
you an easy shooting." | 0:22:39 | 0:22:41 | |
I put my shoes on straight
away and I said, "Yes, | 0:22:41 | 0:22:44 | |
let's get it over and done with." | 0:22:44 | 0:22:46 | |
So I put my shoes on and straight
to Belfast, right? | 0:22:46 | 0:22:48 | |
Just talk me through
the day that it happened. | 0:22:48 | 0:22:50 | |
I was told to walk up the street,
and I looked behind me | 0:22:50 | 0:22:54 | |
and two men were there. | 0:22:54 | 0:22:58 | |
I turned round and I said to them,
"There are ten times as many people | 0:22:58 | 0:23:01 | |
out there doing worse than me,"
and he just said, "Listen, kid, | 0:23:01 | 0:23:04 | |
I'll look after you." | 0:23:04 | 0:23:05 | |
How is that looking after you? | 0:23:05 | 0:23:10 | |
I think people are appalled when
they hear about parents bringing | 0:23:10 | 0:23:13 | |
their kids for appointments. | 0:23:13 | 0:23:15 | |
But I feel deeply sorry for those
people, I think that they have | 0:23:15 | 0:23:18 | |
reached a point where they feel
they really have no option. | 0:23:18 | 0:23:21 | |
And, in one incident recently,
a couple who tried to intervene | 0:23:21 | 0:23:24 | |
to protect their child
was shot themselves. | 0:23:24 | 0:23:31 | |
Injuries sustained in an attack may
not be life-threatening, | 0:23:31 | 0:23:33 | |
but more often than not
they are life-changing. | 0:23:33 | 0:23:35 | |
We've spoken to a surgeon
in the city who told us often | 0:23:35 | 0:23:39 | |
the beatings are more brutal
than the shootings, | 0:23:39 | 0:23:41 | |
with paramilitaries using everything
from iron bars to sledgehammers, | 0:23:41 | 0:23:43 | |
and even electric drills. | 0:23:43 | 0:23:48 | |
You were shot in the legs. | 0:23:48 | 0:23:49 | |
Just give us an idea
of how that actually felt? | 0:23:49 | 0:23:54 | |
It's a burning sensation for, like,
two minutes straight, | 0:23:54 | 0:23:57 | |
then it stopped for 30 seconds. | 0:23:57 | 0:23:58 | |
Then it started again. | 0:23:58 | 0:24:00 | |
It was burning and burning,
you know what I mean? | 0:24:00 | 0:24:05 | |
See, when I'm playing Xbox,
my whole leg locks up. | 0:24:05 | 0:24:08 | |
I get pains every single day. | 0:24:08 | 0:24:09 | |
It's like shooting pains. | 0:24:09 | 0:24:11 | |
But it's not just the physical
scars that do the damage. | 0:24:11 | 0:24:16 | |
Campaigners say often attacks can
lead to devastating mental | 0:24:16 | 0:24:19 | |
health consequences. | 0:24:19 | 0:24:22 | |
I know of several examples
where young people have been shot | 0:24:22 | 0:24:25 | |
or beaten by paramilitary
organisations, and within | 0:24:25 | 0:24:27 | |
a matter of weeks they've
taken their own lives. | 0:24:27 | 0:24:29 | |
So it's an awful, it's a double
tragedy for families, | 0:24:29 | 0:24:31 | |
and it's a terrible toll
that our society's taking | 0:24:31 | 0:24:34 | |
for this ongoing problem. | 0:24:34 | 0:24:41 | |
I had depression already,
but now it's far, far worse. | 0:24:41 | 0:24:44 | |
I've been going to the doctors,
seeing psychiatrists. | 0:24:44 | 0:24:46 | |
Before this I was just like a stupid
kid, know what I mean? | 0:24:46 | 0:24:50 | |
Other people were doing far
worse, stealing cars, | 0:24:50 | 0:24:53 | |
burning this and that. | 0:24:53 | 0:24:54 | |
I didn't do anything that bad. | 0:24:54 | 0:24:57 | |
I've had very bad depression,
everything you can think | 0:24:57 | 0:24:59 | |
of, know what I mean? | 0:24:59 | 0:25:01 | |
I couldn't leave the house. | 0:25:01 | 0:25:02 | |
I was sitting in the house
every single day. | 0:25:02 | 0:25:04 | |
I'm not scared of violence,
I'm just scared because of what's | 0:25:04 | 0:25:07 | |
going through my head
because of the depression. | 0:25:07 | 0:25:09 | |
I've actually lost count of how many
times I've tried to kill myself. | 0:25:09 | 0:25:12 | |
I've sliced my arms. | 0:25:12 | 0:25:14 | |
Sometimes it's been a cry for help,
but a few times I really, | 0:25:14 | 0:25:17 | |
really did want to kill myself. | 0:25:17 | 0:25:20 | |
The last time, I was in my bathroom,
and I waited until everyone | 0:25:20 | 0:25:28 | |
was asleep, and I tried to hang
myself, but my mummy must have been | 0:25:28 | 0:25:31 | |
listening, know what I mean? | 0:25:31 | 0:25:33 | |
She busted the door
and I just dropped. | 0:25:33 | 0:25:34 | |
My eyes were in the back of my head,
and I looked dead and all. | 0:25:34 | 0:25:38 | |
I heard my mummy was shouting,
"He's dead, he's dead!" | 0:25:38 | 0:25:40 | |
Then I just woke up and came
to and was like, "What's | 0:25:40 | 0:25:43 | |
wrong, what's wrong?" | 0:25:43 | 0:25:44 | |
The police may be determined
to prevent these attacks | 0:25:44 | 0:25:47 | |
and punish those responsible,
but they face enormous obstacles. | 0:25:47 | 0:25:52 | |
Victims who are too scared or simply
just refuse to name the culprits | 0:25:52 | 0:25:55 | |
because of a stigma of so-called
touting, the nickname | 0:25:55 | 0:25:57 | |
for talking to officers. | 0:25:57 | 0:26:00 | |
It all means only around
4% of attacks result | 0:26:00 | 0:26:02 | |
in charges being brought. | 0:26:02 | 0:26:05 | |
For people who would be
surprised by that figure, | 0:26:05 | 0:26:07 | |
can you explain why it is so low? | 0:26:07 | 0:26:11 | |
Well, it's down to a number
of factors, one of the biggest | 0:26:11 | 0:26:13 | |
issues is the noncooperation
of the victims, and I think that's | 0:26:13 | 0:26:16 | |
understandable in circumstances
where people have already been | 0:26:16 | 0:26:18 | |
beaten or shot. | 0:26:18 | 0:26:20 | |
The fear of engagement
with the police and what that might | 0:26:20 | 0:26:22 | |
lead to in terms of the party that
were responsible for the initial | 0:26:22 | 0:26:26 | |
attack clearly is something that
would inhibit their wanting to get | 0:26:26 | 0:26:28 | |
involved with the police. | 0:26:28 | 0:26:30 | |
At the same time, these groups
are sophisticated in terms of how | 0:26:30 | 0:26:36 | |
they go about carrying out these
attacks, they're very careful | 0:26:36 | 0:26:38 | |
to make sure they're done in areas
where they won't have witnesses, | 0:26:38 | 0:26:41 | |
where there won't be the likes
of CCTV, and many of the groups are, | 0:26:41 | 0:26:44 | |
as well, forensically aware. | 0:26:44 | 0:26:46 | |
When the police came to you,
they must have asked | 0:26:46 | 0:26:48 | |
you, "Do you know who did this?" | 0:26:48 | 0:26:50 | |
What did you tell the police? | 0:26:50 | 0:26:51 | |
Of course I can't say,
because that's touting. | 0:26:51 | 0:26:53 | |
You'd be scared to tell the police? | 0:26:53 | 0:26:55 | |
Not scared, I just wouldn't. | 0:26:55 | 0:26:56 | |
Round those areas,
it counts as touting, | 0:26:56 | 0:26:58 | |
and you don't want to be a tout. | 0:26:58 | 0:26:59 | |
The paramilitaries come back
and shoot you for that, too. | 0:26:59 | 0:27:02 | |
Worse, they'd shoot you dead. | 0:27:02 | 0:27:06 | |
But there's another obstacle. | 0:27:06 | 0:27:08 | |
It's been labelled the societal
shrug, where many in these | 0:27:08 | 0:27:11 | |
communities see a paramilitary-style
attack as an imperfect but necessary | 0:27:11 | 0:27:13 | |
solution to crack down on crime
and anti-social behaviour | 0:27:13 | 0:27:16 | |
in their neighbourhood. | 0:27:16 | 0:27:19 | |
What would you say to people
who would say, well, | 0:27:19 | 0:27:21 | |
you were hurt in a punishment
attack, you must have done something | 0:27:21 | 0:27:24 | |
wrong to deserve this? | 0:27:24 | 0:27:30 | |
Aye, I did do wrong, yeah,
but I was punished for that | 0:27:30 | 0:27:32 | |
through a court of law. | 0:27:32 | 0:27:34 | |
I didn't need to be punished
by gangsters in the street. | 0:27:34 | 0:27:36 | |
I was punished for what I did. | 0:27:36 | 0:27:38 | |
There was no need
for them to shoot me. | 0:27:38 | 0:27:40 | |
A court of law is for punishment. | 0:27:40 | 0:27:43 | |
It shouldn't be overlooked
that the numbers of these attacks | 0:27:43 | 0:27:46 | |
has drastically reduced
since the height of the Troubles | 0:27:46 | 0:27:48 | |
here, but campaigners
believe more could be done | 0:27:48 | 0:27:50 | |
to eradicate them altogether. | 0:27:50 | 0:27:53 | |
Finding a political solution has
become even more of a challenge | 0:27:53 | 0:27:56 | |
since the power-sharing agreement
between the DUP and Sinn Fein | 0:27:56 | 0:27:58 | |
collapsed in January,
leading to deadlock here | 0:27:58 | 0:28:00 | |
at the Stormont Assembly. | 0:28:00 | 0:28:06 | |
Beyond doubt there is an attempt
by some of these paramilitary groups | 0:28:06 | 0:28:09 | |
to continue to exert
their influence within communities. | 0:28:09 | 0:28:11 | |
I think this is one area
where they see a degree of populism, | 0:28:11 | 0:28:14 | |
and they think it's a way
in which they can re-establish | 0:28:14 | 0:28:17 | |
or promote their legitimacy
within communities, and obviously | 0:28:17 | 0:28:19 | |
from my perspective I am absolutely
committed to denying them any | 0:28:19 | 0:28:22 | |
potential oxygen in that respect. | 0:28:22 | 0:28:27 | |
I can remember every
bit of what happened, | 0:28:27 | 0:28:29 | |
it repeats in my mind all the time. | 0:28:29 | 0:28:31 | |
My mental health issues,
it's made them worse. | 0:28:31 | 0:28:35 | |
I'm still young, I should be
enjoying myself in bars, | 0:28:35 | 0:28:38 | |
and now I'm scared to go out. | 0:28:38 | 0:28:40 | |
I won't leave the house
unless I have family | 0:28:40 | 0:28:42 | |
or friends with me. | 0:28:42 | 0:28:43 | |
This has changed my life. | 0:28:43 | 0:28:46 | |
Greg Dawson reporting. | 0:28:51 | 0:28:53 | |
After 10am, we'll hear from someone
who mediates between paramilitary | 0:28:53 | 0:28:56 | |
groups who carry out these so called
punishment beatings | 0:28:56 | 0:28:58 | |
and the community. | 0:28:58 | 0:28:59 | |
Thank you for your comments.le Jamie
says, "This has been a curse of | 0:28:59 | 0:29:03 | |
Belfast life. I used to not being
able to walk down the street without | 0:29:03 | 0:29:08 | |
seeing an otherwise fit young man on
crutches." Patricia says, "These | 0:29:08 | 0:29:14 | |
young people are drug dealers or
joyriders who don't care what they | 0:29:14 | 0:29:19 | |
do do others. They know if they are
found out, what are the | 0:29:19 | 0:29:25 | |
consequences." Another viewer says,
"If the PSNI don't do their job, | 0:29:25 | 0:29:31 | |
these people will take it upon
themselves to issue punishments. | 0:29:31 | 0:29:34 | |
Sometimes you think to yourself well
if they didn't deal the drugs or rob | 0:29:34 | 0:29:39 | |
grannies then they wouldn't have had
their knees blown off." | 0:29:39 | 0:29:45 | |
Still to come, Robert Mugabe's party
has given him half an hour | 0:29:45 | 0:29:48 | |
to stand down as president. | 0:29:48 | 0:29:49 | |
What happens if he doesn't? | 0:29:49 | 0:29:51 | |
We'll bring you the latest analysis. | 0:29:51 | 0:29:52 | |
We will speak to those who suffered
at the hands of President Mugabe's | 0:29:52 | 0:29:56 | |
regime. | 0:29:56 | 0:29:58 | |
70 years ago to the day, the Queen
and Prince Phillip got married. | 0:29:58 | 0:30:01 | |
We'll take a look back
at their lives together | 0:30:01 | 0:30:03 | |
and speak to another couple,
also celebrating their platinum | 0:30:03 | 0:30:05 | |
wedding anniversary. | 0:30:05 | 0:30:11 | |
Time for the latest
news, here's Rebecca. | 0:30:11 | 0:30:13 | |
The BBC News headlines this morning. | 0:30:13 | 0:30:16 | |
A deadline set by Zimbabwe's ruling
party for President Robert Mugabe | 0:30:16 | 0:30:19 | |
to resign or face impeachment
runs out shortly. | 0:30:19 | 0:30:21 | |
In a speech to the nation last
night, Mr Mugabe made it clear it | 0:30:21 | 0:30:24 | |
he had no intention of stepping
down. | 0:30:24 | 0:30:33 | |
The influential head of the war
veterans organisation said they | 0:30:33 | 0:30:37 | |
would initiate legal action in the
High Court to remove President | 0:30:37 | 0:30:40 | |
Mugabe, and called for further
protests, including a sit-in to | 0:30:40 | 0:30:44 | |
force him to resign. | 0:30:44 | 0:30:47 | |
The German President Frank-Walter
Steinmeier is to hold crisis talks | 0:30:47 | 0:30:50 | |
with Chancellor Angela Merkel,
after her failed attempt to forge | 0:30:50 | 0:30:52 | |
a coalition cast doubts
over her political future. | 0:30:52 | 0:30:56 | |
The centrist Free Democrats pulled
out of talks late last night, | 0:30:56 | 0:30:59 | |
blaming irreconcilable differences
with Mrs Merkel's Christian | 0:30:59 | 0:31:00 | |
Democrats and the other party
in the talks, the Greens. | 0:31:00 | 0:31:07 | |
Talks have been going on for eight
weeks following September's | 0:31:07 | 0:31:09 | |
general election. | 0:31:09 | 0:31:12 | |
Police say there were no injuries
to suggest "any other person | 0:31:12 | 0:31:21 | |
was involved" in the death
of the missing teenager Gaia Pope. | 0:31:21 | 0:31:24 | |
The 19-year-old's body was found
on Saturday in a field near Swanage, | 0:31:24 | 0:31:27 | |
11 days after she was last seen. | 0:31:27 | 0:31:29 | |
Dorset Police are treating her death
as "unexplained" pending | 0:31:29 | 0:31:31 | |
toxicology results. | 0:31:31 | 0:31:32 | |
The convicted cult
leader Charles Manson - | 0:31:32 | 0:31:36 | |
who orchestrated a series
of notorious murders in the 1960s - | 0:31:36 | 0:31:39 | |
has died in prison in
California at the age of 83. | 0:31:39 | 0:31:44 | |
In 1969, members of his group killed
seven people including | 0:31:44 | 0:31:47 | |
the actress Sharon Tate,
wife of the film director, | 0:31:47 | 0:31:49 | |
Roman Polanski. | 0:31:49 | 0:31:51 | |
Manson himself was initially
sentenced to death, before | 0:31:51 | 0:31:53 | |
the penalty was abolished
in California. | 0:31:53 | 0:32:02 | |
Women are being advised to sleep
on their side in the last three | 0:32:02 | 0:32:05 | |
months of pregnancy to avoid having
a stillborn baby. | 0:32:05 | 0:32:09 | |
A study of just over 1,000 women
found the risk doubles if women go | 0:32:09 | 0:32:12 | |
to sleep on their backs
but researchers say | 0:32:12 | 0:32:14 | |
women should not worry
if they are on their back | 0:32:14 | 0:32:16 | |
when they wake up. | 0:32:16 | 0:32:18 | |
The study authors estimate that
about 130 babies' lives a year | 0:32:18 | 0:32:21 | |
could be saved if this advice
was followed. | 0:32:21 | 0:32:26 | |
The Queen and Prince Philip
are celebrating their 70th | 0:32:26 | 0:32:29 | |
wedding anniversary today -
the longest in the Royal | 0:32:29 | 0:32:35 | |
family's history. | 0:32:35 | 0:32:38 | |
The occasion is being marked
with a new series of portraits, | 0:32:38 | 0:32:41 | |
a set of stamps and a private party
for the Royal Family | 0:32:41 | 0:32:44 | |
at Windsor Castle. | 0:32:44 | 0:32:45 | |
The church's bells of Westminster
Abbey, where they married, | 0:32:45 | 0:32:47 | |
will ring for more than three hours
to mark the occasion. | 0:32:47 | 0:32:51 | |
That's a summary of
the latest BBC News. | 0:32:51 | 0:32:56 | |
Here's some sport now with Jessica. | 0:32:56 | 0:33:01 | |
As you have been reporting, sad news
from the world of tennis and you can | 0:33:01 | 0:33:05 | |
bring some of the tributes being
paid to Jana Novotna. Yes, it has | 0:33:05 | 0:33:11 | |
been confirmed this morning that the
former Wimbledon champion Jana | 0:33:11 | 0:33:14 | |
Novotna has died aged 49. Our tennis
correspondent Russell Fuller joins | 0:33:14 | 0:33:19 | |
me now. She will be well known to
British tennis fans, but most | 0:33:19 | 0:33:24 | |
remembered perhaps for crying after
losing the Wimbledon final in 1993? | 0:33:24 | 0:33:31 | |
Yes, in many ways, that will be the
abiding memory of Jana Novotna | 0:33:31 | 0:33:34 | |
amongst British fans. She couldn't
help but share her emotion after | 0:33:34 | 0:33:41 | |
losing the Wimbledon final to Steffi
Graf in 1993. It was Jana Novotna's | 0:33:41 | 0:33:47 | |
first Wimbledon final. The great
Steffi Graf was her opponent. | 0:33:47 | 0:33:50 | |
Novotna was in a winning position,
but Steffi Graf came back to win and | 0:33:50 | 0:33:53 | |
when she received her runners-up
trophy from the Duchess of Kent, the | 0:33:53 | 0:33:57 | |
Duchess literally provided her with
a shoulder to cry on. She was back | 0:33:57 | 0:34:01 | |
in the final four years later,
losing to Martina Hingis. The | 0:34:01 | 0:34:05 | |
Duchess of Kent then said to her, if
you come back and make the final | 0:34:05 | 0:34:08 | |
again, I'm sure it will be third
time lucky, and so it proved. She | 0:34:08 | 0:34:13 | |
came back in 1998 and this time,
Jana Novotna was victorious. She won | 0:34:13 | 0:34:18 | |
her one and only Wimbledon singles
title. And incredible career, 24 | 0:34:18 | 0:34:24 | |
titles that she won during her
career, inducted into the hall of | 0:34:24 | 0:34:30 | |
fame in 2005. How do you think she
will be remembered? Those titles | 0:34:30 | 0:34:36 | |
were just that singles level. She
was a wonderful doubles player as | 0:34:36 | 0:34:39 | |
well. She won a number of doubles
titles. 16 Grand Slam doubles | 0:34:39 | 0:34:46 | |
titles. She was a serve and volley.
She was a very athletic player. She | 0:34:46 | 0:34:51 | |
won the team competition for her
country, the Czech Republic. She won | 0:34:51 | 0:34:55 | |
Olympic medals in singles and
doubles. She was number one in the | 0:34:55 | 0:34:59 | |
world in doubles, number two in the
world in singles. We had the | 0:34:59 | 0:35:02 | |
privilege of sharing a commentary
box with her at Wimbledon in recent | 0:35:02 | 0:35:05 | |
years. She was never ostentatious in
her delivery, but you could see her | 0:35:05 | 0:35:11 | |
passion for the sport, her love of
the game and the way the players | 0:35:11 | 0:35:15 | |
conducted the points. Russell, thank
you. That is all the sport for now. | 0:35:15 | 0:35:24 | |
Confirmation again that the former
Wimbledon champion Jana Novotna has | 0:35:24 | 0:35:28 | |
died aged 49. | 0:35:28 | 0:35:32 | |
Welcome to the programme. | 0:35:32 | 0:35:33 | |
As things stand right now -
Robert Mugabe is still | 0:35:33 | 0:35:36 | |
Zimbabwe's President -
despite a warning that he'll be | 0:35:36 | 0:35:38 | |
impeached and removed
by his own party unless he resigns | 0:35:38 | 0:35:40 | |
in just under half an hour's time. | 0:35:40 | 0:35:44 | |
He didn't step down last night,
as many expected, as many hoped, | 0:35:44 | 0:35:48 | |
even though his own party have
sacked him as leader; instead | 0:35:48 | 0:35:52 | |
he said he intended to chair
the party's congress next month. | 0:35:52 | 0:36:01 | |
The Congress is due in a few weeks
from now. I will preside over its | 0:36:01 | 0:36:09 | |
processes, which must not be
pre-possessed by any act is | 0:36:09 | 0:36:15 | |
calculated to undermine it or to
compromise the outcomes in the eyes | 0:36:15 | 0:36:24 | |
of the public. | 0:36:24 | 0:36:26 | |
Robert Mugabe's grip on power
weakened big time since the army | 0:36:26 | 0:36:29 | |
intervened on Wednesday,
in a row over who | 0:36:29 | 0:36:30 | |
should succeed him. | 0:36:30 | 0:36:31 | |
The crisis began two weeks ago
when the 93-year-old leader, | 0:36:31 | 0:36:34 | |
who's been in charge since 1980,
sacked his deputy Emmerson | 0:36:34 | 0:36:37 | |
Mnangagwa, angering army commanders
who saw it as an attempt | 0:36:37 | 0:36:45 | |
to position his wife
Grace as next president. | 0:36:45 | 0:36:47 | |
Since there have been huge street
raliies in the country, | 0:36:47 | 0:36:57 | |
demonstrations including
the country's influential | 0:36:57 | 0:36:58 | |
war veterans, all
demanding he step down. | 0:36:58 | 0:37:00 | |
Under his presidency,
he's overseen economic collapse, | 0:37:00 | 0:37:05 | |
rampant corruption and the brutal
oppression of anyone | 0:37:05 | 0:37:07 | |
who dared to criticise him. | 0:37:07 | 0:37:17 | |
Ishmael Kauzani joins us from Harare
- he was tortured numerous times | 0:39:28 | 0:39:31 | |
under Mugabe's regime. | 0:39:31 | 0:39:32 | |
Marcellina Chikasha
is also in Harare - | 0:39:32 | 0:39:34 | |
she's President of the opposition
African Democratic Party. | 0:39:34 | 0:39:43 | |
Ishmael, President Mugabe has 20
minutes before the deadline expires | 0:39:43 | 0:39:51 | |
to resign. Do you think he's going
to? No, I don't. He's not going to | 0:39:51 | 0:40:00 | |
resign. He said last night, I'm
going to preside over the Zanu-PF | 0:40:00 | 0:40:10 | |
congress, so I don't see him
resigning. What do you think will | 0:40:10 | 0:40:14 | |
happen, then? For now, I can't say
anything. But as events are | 0:40:14 | 0:40:28 | |
unfolding, anything can happen. As
we speak right now, we are gathered | 0:40:28 | 0:40:37 | |
in the square where we are having
some prayers so that God might hear | 0:40:37 | 0:40:40 | |
our prayers and he might resign.
There are also other groups, the war | 0:40:40 | 0:40:50 | |
veterans and other social movements
who are planning some demonstrations | 0:40:50 | 0:40:53 | |
and sit-ins. They are planning to
march to the blue roof, his | 0:40:53 | 0:41:02 | |
residence. Anything can happen.
According to one Reuters witness, | 0:41:02 | 0:41:09 | |
students at the university of
Zimbabwe are not doing their exams, | 0:41:09 | 0:41:12 | |
or the exams have been postponed
today because students have started | 0:41:12 | 0:41:16 | |
chanting and singing songs against
resident Mugabe. I wonder if you can | 0:41:16 | 0:41:23 | |
tell our British audience how you
have been treated under his regime? | 0:41:23 | 0:41:28 | |
Mine is a long story. It started in
2000. For now, I can say I have been | 0:41:28 | 0:41:42 | |
arrested more than 130 times by
Mugabe's regime. Why? I was arrested | 0:41:42 | 0:41:55 | |
because I was a member of the MDC
and I am a human rights activist. | 0:41:55 | 0:42:03 | |
And MDC stands for the Movement for
Democratic Change, which is an | 0:42:03 | 0:42:07 | |
opposition party. And they
understand in 2008, your friend and | 0:42:07 | 0:42:13 | |
your brother were murdered by the
regime. Tell us what happened. Yes. | 0:42:13 | 0:42:22 | |
It was on the 19th of April 2008
when I was abducted together with my | 0:42:22 | 0:42:29 | |
friend. We were taken away from
Harare to our place about 80 | 0:42:29 | 0:42:38 | |
kilometres away, and we were beaten
and dumped in the mountains. I | 0:42:38 | 0:42:47 | |
sustained three broken ribs. My
friend had multiple fractures to the | 0:42:47 | 0:42:55 | |
league. We were rescued by the women
who were fetching firewood. Then we | 0:42:55 | 0:43:08 | |
were taken to a clinic and later
transferred to another clinic. I was | 0:43:08 | 0:43:20 | |
in hospital from the 20th of April
until the 5th of May, when I was | 0:43:20 | 0:43:29 | |
discharged. On the eighth, I planned
to leave Harare to go to South | 0:43:29 | 0:43:36 | |
Africa for further medication. I was
also running away because I felt my | 0:43:36 | 0:43:51 | |
life was in danger. So you had to
get out. Let me bring in Marcellina. | 0:43:51 | 0:44:02 | |
Sorry, Ishmael. Marcellina, you are
the leader of an opposition party in | 0:44:02 | 0:44:09 | |
Zimbabwe. What do you think is going
to happen in the next 15 minutes? Do | 0:44:09 | 0:44:14 | |
you think Mugabe is going to resign?
I don't think he is going to resign | 0:44:14 | 0:44:19 | |
at all. He has proved that he's not
going be a pushover for anyone, and | 0:44:19 | 0:44:26 | |
he doesn't want to deliver this
presidency on a silver platter to | 0:44:26 | 0:44:31 | |
Emmerson Mnangagwa. So what will
happen if he doesn't resign? I am a | 0:44:31 | 0:44:43 | |
bit worried, because we could
descend into anarchy. These | 0:44:43 | 0:44:48 | |
demonstrations could get out of
hand. What people don't realise is | 0:44:48 | 0:44:54 | |
that, in as they are desperate to
get rid of Robert Mugabe, they have | 0:44:54 | 0:45:05 | |
joined the system that has always
oppressed them and they could just | 0:45:05 | 0:45:09 | |
be collateral damage. We need to
think about the citizens and the | 0:45:09 | 0:45:14 | |
best way forward for the country. If
the street protests and the marches | 0:45:14 | 0:45:21 | |
that are being proposed go on on
Wednesday, we could descend into | 0:45:21 | 0:45:26 | |
anarchy. That is something that
cannot be overlooked. | 0:45:26 | 0:45:37 | |
As I understand it most people out
on the streets, most of the army, | 0:45:37 | 0:45:43 | |
want President Mugabe to step down.
So everybody is on the same side? | 0:45:43 | 0:45:48 | |
Everyone is on the same side now,
but it only takes a moment for | 0:45:48 | 0:45:53 | |
people to realise that it's not
actually just Mugabe that they want | 0:45:53 | 0:45:56 | |
out, it's the system that they want
out. It's Zanu-PF they want out. | 0:45:56 | 0:46:03 | |
Depending what happens in the
situation and who takes advantage of | 0:46:03 | 0:46:07 | |
the situation, you know, it's just
fragile at the moment. I just think | 0:46:07 | 0:46:12 | |
that the army intervening in
civilian politics, you know, roping | 0:46:12 | 0:46:18 | |
people in, citizens to in to fight
their factional battles is not a | 0:46:18 | 0:46:22 | |
good place for a country to be.
Thank you very much for talking to | 0:46:22 | 0:46:25 | |
us.
That's the President of an | 0:46:25 | 0:46:29 | |
opposition party called the African
Democratic Party. Thank you for your | 0:46:29 | 0:46:34 | |
time. He was arrested over 100 times
since Robert Mugabe came into power | 0:46:34 | 0:46:45 | |
and he had to flee effectively for
his life. He had to save himself. He | 0:46:45 | 0:46:50 | |
had to flee to South Africa. We will
be live in Harare, of course, as we | 0:46:50 | 0:46:57 | |
reach that deadline at 10am. | 0:46:57 | 0:47:00 | |
On this day in 1947,
the Queen and Prince Philip got | 0:47:01 | 0:47:03 | |
married at Westminster Abbey. | 0:47:03 | 0:47:04 | |
They'd actually got engaged a year
earlier, but the Palace kept it | 0:47:04 | 0:47:07 | |
a secret until the then
Princess Elizabeth turned 21. | 0:47:07 | 0:47:09 | |
They'd first met when
the Queen was 13 years old. | 0:47:09 | 0:47:12 | |
And for the last 70 years,
their marriage has been | 0:47:12 | 0:47:14 | |
a constant in British life. | 0:47:14 | 0:47:15 | |
Here's how it all began. | 0:47:15 | 0:47:19 | |
# When you are in love | 0:47:36 | 0:47:41 | |
# It's the loveliest
night of the year... | 0:47:41 | 0:47:47 | |
The king and queen announce
the betrothal | 0:47:52 | 0:47:53 | |
of their
dearly beloved daughter, | 0:47:53 | 0:47:57 | |
the Princess Elizabeth,
to Lieutenant Philip Mountbatten. | 0:47:57 | 0:48:02 | |
I am so happy that on this,
my third visit, | 0:48:02 | 0:48:05 | |
my future husband is by my side. | 0:48:05 | 0:48:12 | |
Into the dull November morning, two
Greys draw the Irish State coach. | 0:48:24 | 0:48:28 | |
Inside, the Royal Highness Princess
Elizabeth and her father. | 0:48:28 | 0:48:31 | |
# ...it's the loveliest
night of the year | 0:48:36 | 0:48:40 | |
# When you are in love | 0:48:40 | 0:48:45 | |
# It's the loveliest
night of the year | 0:48:45 | 0:48:53 | |
# Stars twinkle above | 0:48:53 | 0:49:00 | |
# And you almost can
touch them from here | 0:49:00 | 0:49:09 | |
# Words fall into rhyme | 0:49:09 | 0:49:15 | |
# Any time you are holding me near | 0:49:15 | 0:49:24 | |
# When you are in love | 0:49:24 | 0:49:25 | |
# It's the loveliest
night of the year | 0:49:25 | 0:49:34 | |
Let's talk to the Queen's former
press secretary Dickie Arbiter. | 0:49:50 | 0:49:53 | |
Christopher Lee
is a royal historian. | 0:49:53 | 0:49:56 | |
Alun and Delphine Richards
are in Swansea and they celebrated | 0:49:56 | 0:50:01 | |
their 70th wedding anniversary
in June and got a card | 0:50:01 | 0:50:03 | |
from the Queen. | 0:50:03 | 0:50:08 | |
Welcome all of you. Thank you so
much. Dickie, you have seen this | 0:50:08 | 0:50:13 | |
relationship of the Queen and Prince
Philip's from close quarters. Give | 0:50:13 | 0:50:17 | |
us an insight into what they are
like together? They are like pretty | 0:50:17 | 0:50:21 | |
much a normal married couple. The
fact that the Queen is head of state | 0:50:21 | 0:50:24 | |
and head of nation is neither here
nor there when they are sitting | 0:50:24 | 0:50:29 | |
across the table from one another. I
was there in the crowd watching the | 0:50:29 | 0:50:34 | |
procession and there was love and
adoration when they were driving | 0:50:34 | 0:50:40 | |
back from Westminster Abbey and that
exists today. They have got humour. | 0:50:40 | 0:50:43 | |
They've got affection for each
other. They have got chemistry. I | 0:50:43 | 0:50:47 | |
can imagine him making her laugh.
Does she make him laugh? Yes, she | 0:50:47 | 0:50:51 | |
does make him laugh. What you see in
public is the very different to the | 0:50:51 | 0:50:55 | |
person you see in private. They are
two people that are pretty much | 0:50:55 | 0:50:59 | |
wrapped up in each other, but they
give each other space. She has got a | 0:50:59 | 0:51:03 | |
job to do. He has got a role and
they allow each other to get on with | 0:51:03 | 0:51:08 | |
it, but when it's time to come
together they do come together. | 0:51:08 | 0:51:13 | |
Christopher, you believe their
marriage is symbolic of British | 0:51:13 | 0:51:15 | |
national identity. Explain? Well,
one of the roles of the monarchy | 0:51:15 | 0:51:23 | |
apart from providing an heir is to
reflect identity of the nation and | 0:51:23 | 0:51:28 | |
it's not so much look at us this is
how you ought to behave, but it is | 0:51:28 | 0:51:32 | |
somehow they do reflect the feelings
of a nation. A nation feels quite | 0:51:32 | 0:51:37 | |
comfortable with the idea of a long
lived monarch. I think that what I | 0:51:37 | 0:51:44 | |
find intriguing without being sort
of damp about it, this is towards | 0:51:44 | 0:51:47 | |
the end of this long monarchy and
this long reflection of the nation. | 0:51:47 | 0:51:55 | |
If you go back to 1947 what it was
like then and right up to the | 0:51:55 | 0:51:59 | |
present day where the uncertainties
that we have now and I think that's | 0:51:59 | 0:52:05 | |
particularly important because when
you look at the, looking at Ascot | 0:52:05 | 0:52:10 | |
earlier this year and in all the
crisises that's going on throughout | 0:52:10 | 0:52:13 | |
the world and suddenly up came the
carriage and then there they were | 0:52:13 | 0:52:18 | |
waving, and suddenly, that seemed
right because it reflected another | 0:52:18 | 0:52:23 | |
side of the nation.
Let me brael in Alun and del fen. | 0:52:23 | 0:52:32 | |
Both 93 and celebrating the 70th
wedding anniversary. Congratulations | 0:52:32 | 0:52:38 | |
first of all. Thank you. Thank you.
Tell us how you do it. How have you | 0:52:38 | 0:52:47 | |
done it for 70 years? What's the
secret? Well, I really don't know. I | 0:52:47 | 0:52:54 | |
think it is a bit of give-and-take.
She gives and I take! And we manage | 0:52:54 | 0:53:00 | |
fine that way.
LAUGHTER | 0:53:00 | 0:53:04 | |
Yes, I agree. That's the sum of it.
How would you describe what it is | 0:53:04 | 0:53:13 | |
like being married for 70 years? I
don't know. It's, we've just got on | 0:53:13 | 0:53:22 | |
so well. We don't know the time
passes even. We're good friends. We | 0:53:22 | 0:53:34 | |
have laughs together and it's just
normal to us that we should be | 0:53:34 | 0:53:40 | |
together. Do you still love each
other? | 0:53:40 | 0:53:47 | |
Sorry? How much do you still love
each other? Oh, very much. Oh yes. | 0:53:47 | 0:53:55 | |
Very much, yes.
Alun? Yes. How much do you her? Of | 0:53:55 | 0:54:08 | |
course, I do. More than I ever did.
I know you got a card from the Queen | 0:54:08 | 0:54:15 | |
and a commemorative coin from the
Royal Mint to celebrate, didn't you? | 0:54:15 | 0:54:19 | |
What else did you get for your
platinum wedding anniversary? Well, | 0:54:19 | 0:54:27 | |
on the actual anniversary, I don't
think we got each other, that's all | 0:54:27 | 0:54:31 | |
we wanted. We did have a special
service for us in chapel as part of | 0:54:31 | 0:54:42 | |
the normal Sunday service which was
rather moving. We renewed our | 0:54:42 | 0:54:48 | |
wedding vows. And how was it for
you? We are just like one being, I | 0:54:48 | 0:55:03 | |
feel, you know, we have become one
being and we know what the other | 0:55:03 | 0:55:12 | |
wants and sometimes we disagree, but
it's not much of a disagreement. | 0:55:12 | 0:55:17 | |
It's just sort of, oh well, I think
so and so and that's it. | 0:55:17 | 0:55:25 | |
Thank you very much. Let me bring in
Dickie and Christopher. Dickie | 0:55:25 | 0:55:30 | |
former press secretary to the Queen.
The Queen and Prince Philip, do they | 0:55:30 | 0:55:35 | |
have disagreements? Do they argue?
They might argue. They might have a | 0:55:35 | 0:55:39 | |
little bit of a spat, but it is over
very quickly. Their body language, | 0:55:39 | 0:55:45 | |
looking at the pictures released
today, there is one picture of them | 0:55:45 | 0:55:48 | |
looking at each other, look at the
picture behind us, they have that | 0:55:48 | 0:55:53 | |
look and it permates through the
course of their marriage. There have | 0:55:53 | 0:55:57 | |
always been pictures like that.
Their body language is terrific. | 0:55:57 | 0:55:59 | |
They do adore each other and it does
come through. It does show and they | 0:55:59 | 0:56:05 | |
just have this ability to connect,
to communicate without actually | 0:56:05 | 0:56:09 | |
being joined at the hip. Do you
think Christopher, they have taught | 0:56:09 | 0:56:14 | |
us any lessons about how to make
marriage work? I don't think it is | 0:56:14 | 0:56:20 | |
making marriage work because they
failed to teach some of the other | 0:56:20 | 0:56:23 | |
members of the Royal Family, haven't
they how to make marriage work? What | 0:56:23 | 0:56:29 | |
is fascinating here when they get
married, he is going to be a very | 0:56:29 | 0:56:33 | |
good naval officer. He was a very
good naval officer. He under | 0:56:33 | 0:56:37 | |
standings that this would be a
complete change his life. When he | 0:56:37 | 0:56:41 | |
becomes, when the Queen becomes the
Queen, he turns around and says, "I | 0:56:41 | 0:56:47 | |
have nothing to do. I haven't got a
role in this. ." You can go off a | 0:56:47 | 0:56:59 | |
design the royal naught and go off
to Australia and cause levels of | 0:56:59 | 0:57:03 | |
friction, like talking to the couple
here, we look round and we look at | 0:57:03 | 0:57:07 | |
them and we look at the Royal Family
and the Queen and Prince Philip and | 0:57:07 | 0:57:11 | |
say, 70 years, now what made it
work? What was it? Is it like the | 0:57:11 | 0:57:16 | |
older you get in marriage, the more
forgiving you are? It becomes | 0:57:16 | 0:57:21 | |
something which you split into two
roles. The Queen, about whom we know | 0:57:21 | 0:57:26 | |
very little surprisingly and Prince
Philip who we seem to know far more | 0:57:26 | 0:57:30 | |
about, and they become symbols and
that's why I come back to this idea | 0:57:30 | 0:57:35 | |
that they somehow reflect society as
it is at the moment. So, we are | 0:57:35 | 0:57:42 | |
moving towards a complete change in
the way society is and the way | 0:57:42 | 0:57:47 | |
monarchy will reflect that society.
I think it's the end of an era. | 0:57:47 | 0:57:51 | |
Thank you very much.
Congratulations again. Thank you. | 0:57:51 | 0:57:59 | |
70 years.
The latest news and sport coming up. | 0:57:59 | 0:58:04 | |
Latest from Harare in a couple of
minutes. Before that, the weather. | 0:58:04 | 0:58:08 | |
Here is Carol. Thank you, Victoria. | 0:58:08 | 0:58:10 | |
minutes. Before that, the weather.
Here is Carol. Thank you, Victoria. | 0:58:10 | 0:58:11 | |
This morning it has been a cold
start, but a very mild start for | 0:58:11 | 0:58:14 | |
others. As we go through this week,
the forecast is a mild one. There | 0:58:14 | 0:58:18 | |
will be rain at times and it is
often going to be windy A the moment | 0:58:18 | 0:58:21 | |
in parts of North Wales, the
temperature is 14 Celsius. Low | 0:58:21 | 0:58:25 | |
pressure is dominating our weather.
We have got an array of fronts | 0:58:25 | 0:58:29 | |
moving from its west to the east,
taking rain with them. With | 0:58:29 | 0:58:33 | |
transient hill snow across the
Highlands of Scotland. We are | 0:58:33 | 0:58:36 | |
pulling in our wind from the
south-west which means that's a mild | 0:58:36 | 0:58:41 | |
direction, hence the higher
temperatures, milder air holds | 0:58:41 | 0:58:44 | |
moisture so there is a lot of cloud
and rain. The exception to the mild | 0:58:44 | 0:58:48 | |
air is across the far north-east of
Scotland. So as we go through the | 0:58:48 | 0:58:51 | |
course of this morning, the rain
continues to edge into the North | 0:58:51 | 0:58:54 | |
Sea. Behind it, there will be spots
of rain coming out of the thicker | 0:58:54 | 0:58:58 | |
cloud and there will be a lot of
cloud around this afternoon with | 0:58:58 | 0:59:01 | |
just one or two exceptions where we
will see sunshine. So into the | 0:59:01 | 0:59:05 | |
afternoon across south-west England,
we hang on to the cloud. Some | 0:59:05 | 0:59:09 | |
splashes of rain, some splashes of
rain not everywhere as we push | 0:59:09 | 0:59:12 | |
across southern counties, but it is
going to be fairly cloudy | 0:59:12 | 0:59:15 | |
everywhere, but one thing you will
notice particularly compared to | 0:59:15 | 0:59:19 | |
yesterday is, it's fairly mild.
Across northern England we are | 0:59:19 | 0:59:22 | |
looking at that cloud producing rain
and indeed we are too across | 0:59:22 | 0:59:25 | |
Scotland. The heavier rain having
pushed off into the North Sea. The | 0:59:25 | 0:59:30 | |
rain drizzly and murky conditions.
In Scotland it will be chilly. Seven | 0:59:30 | 0:59:35 | |
Celsius the tomp ture in Aberdeen.
Spots of rain coming out of the | 0:59:35 | 0:59:38 | |
cloud across Northern Ireland. Here
too, very mild for the time of year | 0:59:38 | 0:59:42 | |
and for Wales, quite a murky
afternoon, all having said that, | 0:59:42 | 0:59:45 | |
parts of east Wales and
Herefordshire, also the West | 0:59:45 | 0:59:49 | |
Midlands seeing sunshine. Lieu this
evening and overnight, the rain | 0:59:49 | 0:59:57 | |
across Scotland rejaouf nates. We
have south-westerly winds and | 0:59:57 | 0:59:59 | |
another mild night. The temperatures
wouldn't be too bad for day time | 0:59:59 | 1:00:06 | |
maximums, the mild air pushing up
across the north of Scotland. | 1:00:06 | 1:00:09 | |
Tomorrow the rain continues to push
up into the north and a new band | 1:00:09 | 1:00:12 | |
comes into the west and for a time
at least it will be dry in the east. | 1:00:12 | 1:00:16 | |
Hello. | 1:00:18 | 1:00:19 | |
It's Monday, it's 10 o'clock,
I'm Victoria Derbyshire. | 1:00:19 | 1:00:27 | |
Welcome to the problem - programme
what a Freudian slip. | 1:00:27 | 1:00:33 | |
The deadline for Robert Mugabe
to stand down as President | 1:00:33 | 1:00:36 | |
of Zimbabwe has passed. | 1:00:36 | 1:00:42 | |
I will have the latest live from
Zimbabwe, a nation still in shock | 1:00:42 | 1:00:46 | |
and disbelief that President Mugabe
failed to resign in his live | 1:00:46 | 1:00:49 | |
televised address last night. There
are calls for people to turn out | 1:00:49 | 1:00:53 | |
onto the streets tomorrow in huge
demonstrations, demanding that he | 1:00:53 | 1:00:58 | |
goes. We will bring you the latest
reaction to events in Zimbabwe over | 1:00:58 | 1:01:03 | |
the next half-hour and try and find
out happens next. | 1:01:03 | 1:01:06 | |
Also on the programme -
so-called "punishment" | 1:01:06 | 1:01:08 | |
attacks by paramilitaries,
usually kneecappings | 1:01:08 | 1:01:09 | |
or serious beatings. | 1:01:09 | 1:01:10 | |
They're happening in this country
right now and they're | 1:01:10 | 1:01:12 | |
taking their toll on society. | 1:01:12 | 1:01:16 | |
I know of several examples
where young people have been shot | 1:01:16 | 1:01:18 | |
or beaten by paramilitary
organisations and within a matter | 1:01:18 | 1:01:21 | |
of weeks, they've
taken their own lives. | 1:01:21 | 1:01:31 | |
Our correspondent Ben
Brown is in Harare. | 1:01:37 | 1:01:43 | |
Welcome to the special coverage of
the crisis in Zimbabwe. We are in | 1:01:43 | 1:01:48 | |
the capital, Harare, and that
deadline for Mr Mugabe to resign has | 1:01:48 | 1:01:51 | |
just passed. To our knowledge, he
has not resigned. He certainly | 1:01:51 | 1:01:56 | |
didn't in that much anticipated
televised address last night on | 1:01:56 | 1:02:03 | |
Zimbabwean national television after
days of pressure from the military | 1:02:03 | 1:02:06 | |
here, from his own party, Zanu-PF,
which sacked him as party leader, | 1:02:06 | 1:02:10 | |
and indeed from the people, with
huge demonstrations here on | 1:02:10 | 1:02:13 | |
Saturday. Despite all of that
pressure, he refused to resign. What | 1:02:13 | 1:02:17 | |
looks now inevitable is that there
will be moves to impeach him. In the | 1:02:17 | 1:02:21 | |
parliament behind me, they will need
a two thirds majority in both Houses | 1:02:21 | 1:02:27 | |
of Parliament to impeach him. We
have been told this morning by one | 1:02:27 | 1:02:31 | |
MP that that impeachment process
could take quite a while. Days, | 1:02:31 | 1:02:36 | |
weeks, maybe even months. So Mr
Mugabe is still technically | 1:02:36 | 1:02:39 | |
president of this country, still the
oldest president in the world, and | 1:02:39 | 1:02:45 | |
also, bizarrely, under house arrest.
We have been hearing from the war | 1:02:45 | 1:02:49 | |
veterans, the men who fought
alongside Mr Mugabe in the war of | 1:02:49 | 1:02:53 | |
liberation for Zimbabwe, the war of
independence. They want him out. | 1:02:53 | 1:02:56 | |
They have just a news conference.
Yesterday, the party record him, and | 1:02:56 | 1:03:07 | |
today they are starting to initiate
impeachment proceedings, so I hear. | 1:03:07 | 1:03:11 | |
And they will be calling upon the
various province chairman to call | 1:03:11 | 1:03:17 | |
upon the MPs from those provinces to
come to Parliament and make sure | 1:03:17 | 1:03:23 | |
that impeachment proceedings begin
against Mr Mugabe. This is a welcome | 1:03:23 | 1:03:28 | |
thing and we want it to proceed. We
encourage the party to expeditiously | 1:03:28 | 1:03:35 | |
do that as soon as possible. We are
also appealing to other party in the | 1:03:35 | 1:03:42 | |
Parliament, the MDC, to coordinate
their efforts with the ruling party | 1:03:42 | 1:03:44 | |
so that we achieve the desired end
to see Mugabe out of office | 1:03:44 | 1:03:49 | |
immediately. That was the leader of
the war veterans Association here, | 1:03:49 | 1:04:00 | |
saying that Mr Mugabe has been in
power for 37 years in Zimbabwe. He | 1:04:00 | 1:04:04 | |
should not be allowed to stay in
power, he says, for another 37 | 1:04:04 | 1:04:11 | |
seconds. Just an example of the
hostility to Mr Mugabe that there | 1:04:11 | 1:04:15 | |
is, but for the moment, he shows no
sign of resigning. Let's talk to | 1:04:15 | 1:04:20 | |
Beatrice, a Zimbabwean human rights
lawyer who joins us now in Harare. | 1:04:20 | 1:04:28 | |
What do you make of Mr Mugabe's
refusal to resign when so many were | 1:04:28 | 1:04:32 | |
expecting that he would? I think
everybody knows that he is a very | 1:04:32 | 1:04:38 | |
stubborn man. I'm surprised that
people thought he would just cave in | 1:04:38 | 1:04:43 | |
because people say he must resign.
That is typical Robert Mugabe for | 1:04:43 | 1:04:46 | |
you. OK! But what will he do now? Is
he going to stick this out? We have | 1:04:46 | 1:04:55 | |
an impeachment process. Is that
going to be successful? I think | 1:04:55 | 1:05:02 | |
impeachment is probably the best
route to take. Firstly, it is legal | 1:05:02 | 1:05:07 | |
and secondly, since everybody agrees
from all the political divide that | 1:05:07 | 1:05:10 | |
he should go, they can short-circuit
the process by ensuring that | 1:05:10 | 1:05:18 | |
Parliamentary rules are suspended
for the purposes of ensuring that it | 1:05:18 | 1:05:23 | |
goes through. Parliament has the
power to regulate its own rules, so | 1:05:23 | 1:05:26 | |
they can fast-track it if they wish
to. And by all accounts, they do | 1:05:26 | 1:05:32 | |
want it over and done with by
yesterday. What was the reaction? | 1:05:32 | 1:05:38 | |
Millions were watching the televised
address last night and a lot of | 1:05:38 | 1:05:41 | |
people were thinking he was going to
resign. One news agency reported | 1:05:41 | 1:05:47 | |
that he had resigned, in fact. But
he didn't. Was there shock, anger, | 1:05:47 | 1:05:52 | |
disappointment? For the ordinary
people enlisted, the thinking was, | 1:05:52 | 1:05:59 | |
why would he have a press conference
unless he was going to say what they | 1:05:59 | 1:06:03 | |
wanted him to say? But from a
strategic point of view, it is a | 1:06:03 | 1:06:06 | |
good thing he didn't resign, because
he cannot challenge the process on | 1:06:06 | 1:06:13 | |
the basis that he was coerced and
resigned under duress because he was | 1:06:13 | 1:06:16 | |
surrounded by the military. So the
fact that he was made to go there | 1:06:16 | 1:06:22 | |
with a statement that didn't say
what the military wants in itself | 1:06:22 | 1:06:26 | |
can be used to show that actually,
he was not under any form of | 1:06:26 | 1:06:33 | |
coercion and the military would be
able to save the guy came, made his | 1:06:33 | 1:06:37 | |
statement. We didn't like the
statement, but he was a free man. So | 1:06:37 | 1:06:41 | |
this is not a coup, because in a
coup, you make someone read what you | 1:06:41 | 1:06:51 | |
want him to read. So this was a
masterstroke, because he cannot | 1:06:51 | 1:06:55 | |
argue that it was a forced
resignation. But he is still | 1:06:55 | 1:06:59 | |
president and that is extraordinary.
If he under house arrest? Again, | 1:06:59 | 1:07:05 | |
from a strategic point of view, it
is easy to argue that this is not a | 1:07:05 | 1:07:09 | |
coup because when one has a coup,
the military takes over the levers | 1:07:09 | 1:07:14 | |
of government. Here, all the levers
of government are still with | 1:07:14 | 1:07:17 | |
Zanu-PF. All the ministers except
the few who are in custody are this | 1:07:17 | 1:07:22 | |
judging their duties. The army
commanders have not taken over | 1:07:22 | 1:07:26 | |
Mugabe's office. It is still
functioning normally. It is probably | 1:07:26 | 1:07:31 | |
meant to disguise the fact that
there is military intervention, | 1:07:31 | 1:07:36 | |
which ordinarily is a coup. But
because they have not taken of the | 1:07:36 | 1:07:41 | |
government, they can argue that
actually, it wasn't a coup. How much | 1:07:41 | 1:07:49 | |
longer do you think he's going to be
president, weeks, months or days? | 1:07:49 | 1:07:54 | |
When one looks at how this thing is
snowballing, his period is becoming | 1:07:54 | 1:07:59 | |
shorter and shorter. I would
definitely say not weeks. We are | 1:07:59 | 1:08:06 | |
talking days, depending on how the
impeachment goes. The university | 1:08:06 | 1:08:12 | |
students are also making their own
demands, which means other civil | 1:08:12 | 1:08:16 | |
society activists will join the
bandwagon. It looks like the country | 1:08:16 | 1:08:20 | |
will be made ungovernable unless he
steps down. Beatrice, a Zimbabwean | 1:08:20 | 1:08:28 | |
human rights lawyer, thank you for
your time. Despite what Beatrice was | 1:08:28 | 1:08:34 | |
saying, Mr Mugabe has not got a
great track record of listening to | 1:08:34 | 1:08:37 | |
the people, although there is
another big penetration being called | 1:08:37 | 1:08:40 | |
for tomorrow in Harare by the war
veterans Association. Their leader | 1:08:40 | 1:08:46 | |
told us he will expect that
demonstration to be even bigger than | 1:08:46 | 1:08:50 | |
the vast demonstration we saw here
on Saturday, when thousands took to | 1:08:50 | 1:08:54 | |
the streets, demanding that Mr
Mugabe goes now. Let's get the | 1:08:54 | 1:08:58 | |
thoughts of our Southern Africa
correspondent, Milton Nkosi, in | 1:08:58 | 1:09:02 | |
Johannesburg. The deadline has come
and gone. He is still technically | 1:09:02 | 1:09:08 | |
president? Yes. We now expect that
Zanu-PF will deliver on its threat, | 1:09:08 | 1:09:16 | |
or promise, that they will start
impeachment receiving is and there | 1:09:16 | 1:09:23 | |
will start carrying them out in
parliament on Tuesday. Even if this | 1:09:23 | 1:09:30 | |
process was started by the military,
they are now taking a step back and | 1:09:30 | 1:09:37 | |
allowing it to be a popular movement
by the people. Beatrice is correct | 1:09:37 | 1:09:44 | |
that the students are joining in.
They will have mass action following | 1:09:44 | 1:09:48 | |
this. Last week, we saw the military
taking charge and the people | 1:09:48 | 1:09:56 | |
following the military. I think from
now on, things will be turned around | 1:09:56 | 1:10:00 | |
so that the people are taking charge
of the process and the military will | 1:10:00 | 1:10:06 | |
be behind them. And what is
important is the region. They want | 1:10:06 | 1:10:16 | |
the transition of Robert Mugabe
stepping down to be choreographed | 1:10:16 | 1:10:19 | |
carefully. That is why you have this
delicate constitutionalism getting | 1:10:19 | 1:10:23 | |
in the way of what we all thought
was a coup d'etat. What they want is | 1:10:23 | 1:10:34 | |
that by the time Robert Mugabe is
gone, they cannot say he was removed | 1:10:34 | 1:10:38 | |
by the barrel of a gun. Maybe we
were wrong to be surprised last | 1:10:38 | 1:10:43 | |
night when he made that address and
failed to resign. Maybe we should | 1:10:43 | 1:10:47 | |
never have expected a man as
stubborn as we all know Robert | 1:10:47 | 1:10:50 | |
Mugabe is to just cave in? Well, it
was a natural expectation once you | 1:10:50 | 1:10:57 | |
hear the president is going to
address the nation live on | 1:10:57 | 1:10:59 | |
television. You expect something
unusual. And of course, Robert | 1:10:59 | 1:11:05 | |
Mugabe held onto his line that he
has been holding since the army | 1:11:05 | 1:11:10 | |
parked a tank outside his house. It
is clear that he has no intention of | 1:11:10 | 1:11:16 | |
stepping down. We heard him in his
own words saying that he is hoping | 1:11:16 | 1:11:22 | |
to be presiding over the Zanu-PF
congress in December. We are in | 1:11:22 | 1:11:27 | |
November. So the president thinks he
will still be president by December. | 1:11:27 | 1:11:35 | |
Thank you. That was Milton Nkosi,
our Southern Africa correspondent. | 1:11:35 | 1:11:40 | |
Calls for big demonstrations again
tomorrow. Let's talk to an activist | 1:11:40 | 1:11:45 | |
who was on the streets on Saturday.
Will you come out onto the streets | 1:11:45 | 1:11:54 | |
again to demand that Mr Mugabe goes?
I will be on the streets until he | 1:11:54 | 1:12:00 | |
goes. There is no other option. I
just need to see him go. So we are | 1:12:00 | 1:12:07 | |
sitting in Africa Unity Square until
he goes. When you saw that speech | 1:12:07 | 1:12:13 | |
last night on TV, how surprised,
disappointed or angry where you that | 1:12:13 | 1:12:19 | |
he barely mentioned all the pressure
on him to go and never mentioned the | 1:12:19 | 1:12:24 | |
demonstrations or the fact that the
people are against him, certainly in | 1:12:24 | 1:12:27 | |
Harare? Yesterday, before the
speech, I was ready to celebrate. | 1:12:27 | 1:12:34 | |
And then when I heard the speech, I
was really disappointed. It was | 1:12:34 | 1:12:38 | |
heartbreaking. I was actually in
tears. We expected him to step down | 1:12:38 | 1:12:48 | |
and do the right thing. And all he
said was nothing. Isn't that classic | 1:12:48 | 1:12:55 | |
Robert Mugabe, in a sense? Yeah,
that is classic Robert Mugabe. His | 1:12:55 | 1:13:01 | |
sole ambition was to have power from
the beginning. He got that power | 1:13:01 | 1:13:05 | |
which is so dear to him, and he
wants to hold onto it for ever. Do | 1:13:05 | 1:13:12 | |
you think something has changed in
this country with that amazing | 1:13:12 | 1:13:16 | |
demonstration on Saturday that you
took part in? It was euphoric and | 1:13:16 | 1:13:20 | |
full of joy. People were on the
streets. They were taking selfies | 1:13:20 | 1:13:23 | |
with the Army. Has everything now
changed in Zimbabwe after that? Yes, | 1:13:23 | 1:13:30 | |
there was a sense of a freedom that
we had never experienced in this | 1:13:30 | 1:13:36 | |
country. As an activist, some of the
demonstrations we have been doing | 1:13:36 | 1:13:40 | |
were under police brutality. You
could not walk a step without police | 1:13:40 | 1:13:46 | |
throwing tear gas at you. So there
is a sense of freedom and hope in | 1:13:46 | 1:13:51 | |
the country that something can be
done. Thank you very much. That is | 1:13:51 | 1:14:00 | |
the latest from here. We know that
that deadline has passed. Mr Mugabe | 1:14:00 | 1:14:05 | |
has still not resigned, but we will
bring you the latest throughout the | 1:14:05 | 1:14:08 | |
day on BBC News. | 1:14:08 | 1:14:13 | |
So-called punishment attacks,
knee-cappings, serious beatings | 1:14:13 | 1:14:19 | |
using sledgehammers and electric
drills as punishment for carrying | 1:14:19 | 1:14:25 | |
out a crime or anti-social behaviour
is something we associate with | 1:14:25 | 1:14:28 | |
Isis-controlled parts of Iraq and
Syria. | 1:14:28 | 1:14:29 | |
But it's also happening
here in the UK in 2017. | 1:14:29 | 1:14:31 | |
After a period of decline,
such attacks by paramilitaries | 1:14:31 | 1:14:33 | |
are on the rise in Northern Ireland,
with a 30% increase | 1:14:33 | 1:14:36 | |
over the last year. | 1:14:36 | 1:14:45 | |
Talking to people who've been
victims of them is incredibly rare, | 1:14:45 | 1:14:48 | |
for obvious reasons. | 1:14:48 | 1:14:49 | |
But our reporter Greg Dawson has
spoken to two young men | 1:14:49 | 1:14:51 | |
who were kneecapped. | 1:14:51 | 1:14:53 | |
We brought you his full report
earlier; here's a short extract. | 1:14:53 | 1:15:00 | |
It is graphic from the beginning and
you may not want young children to | 1:15:00 | 1:15:03 | |
hear it. | 1:15:03 | 1:15:04 | |
Shootings, beatings, threats. | 1:15:04 | 1:15:08 | |
Paramilitary-style attacks may be
a legacy of decades of conflict | 1:15:08 | 1:15:11 | |
in Northern Ireland,
but even in 2017, the self-appointed | 1:15:11 | 1:15:15 | |
men in charge still see it
as their role to police | 1:15:15 | 1:15:17 | |
their communities and crack down
on what they deem to be | 1:15:17 | 1:15:20 | |
antisocial behaviour. | 1:15:20 | 1:15:21 | |
James and Thomas, not their real
names, were shot in the legs. | 1:15:21 | 1:15:25 | |
We voiced their words for them. | 1:15:25 | 1:15:31 | |
They got in contact with someone
in the family, they told me I had | 1:15:31 | 1:15:34 | |
to go and meet them. | 1:15:34 | 1:15:35 | |
I walked to the place
and they told me to go | 1:15:35 | 1:15:38 | |
and they were standing there,
they showed me the gun and told me | 1:15:38 | 1:15:41 | |
to lie down on the floor. | 1:15:41 | 1:15:43 | |
That was it. | 1:15:43 | 1:15:47 | |
One of the hallmarks of these
attacks is that many | 1:15:47 | 1:15:49 | |
of the victims know it's coming. | 1:15:49 | 1:15:53 | |
In some cases, parents are faced
with a dreadful dilemma of how best | 1:15:53 | 1:15:56 | |
to protect their child. | 1:15:56 | 1:15:57 | |
Hide them from paramilitary
groups or hand them over | 1:15:57 | 1:16:00 | |
for so-called appointments. | 1:16:00 | 1:16:02 | |
I did one or two bad things
and they were just picking | 1:16:02 | 1:16:04 | |
on me and picking on me. | 1:16:04 | 1:16:06 | |
I was trying to change my life
around and they were | 1:16:06 | 1:16:08 | |
still picking on me. | 1:16:08 | 1:16:16 | |
They put me out of the country
and then mummy visited me and said, | 1:16:16 | 1:16:20 | |
"Listen I've been talking to someone
to try to sort it out to get someone | 1:16:20 | 1:16:24 | |
to give you an easy shooting". | 1:16:24 | 1:16:29 | |
I put my shoes on and
went straightaway and | 1:16:29 | 1:16:37 | |
I put my shoes on and went
straightaway and I said, "Yes, | 1:16:37 | 1:16:40 | |
let's get it over and done with". | 1:16:40 | 1:16:41 | |
So I put my shoes on and straight
to Belfast, right. | 1:16:41 | 1:16:44 | |
Talk me through the day it happened? | 1:16:44 | 1:16:46 | |
I was told to walk up the street
and I looked behind me | 1:16:46 | 1:16:49 | |
and two men were there. | 1:16:49 | 1:16:50 | |
I turned round and I said to them,
there are ten times as many people | 1:16:50 | 1:16:53 | |
out there doing worse than me
and he just said, "Listen, kid, I'll | 1:16:53 | 1:16:57 | |
look after you". | 1:16:57 | 1:16:58 | |
And how's that looking after you? | 1:16:58 | 1:16:59 | |
In 2016-2017, there were 94 reported
casualties of shootings | 1:16:59 | 1:17:01 | |
and assaults, that's up 30%
on the previous year. | 1:17:01 | 1:17:04 | |
Attacks are currently
at their highest level since 2010. | 1:17:04 | 1:17:06 | |
And since 2009, 47% of attacks
targeted people aged 25 and under. | 1:17:06 | 1:17:09 | |
The Police Service of
Northern Ireland has now | 1:17:09 | 1:17:11 | |
teamed up with officers
from the National Crime Agency | 1:17:11 | 1:17:17 | |
for a dedicated task force to deal
with paramilitaries. | 1:17:17 | 1:17:19 | |
Beyond doubt, there is an attempt
by some of these paramilitary groups | 1:17:19 | 1:17:22 | |
to continue to exert their influence
within communities and I think this | 1:17:22 | 1:17:27 | |
is one area where they see a degree
of populism and they think it's | 1:17:27 | 1:17:30 | |
a way which they can re-establish
or promote their legitimacy | 1:17:30 | 1:17:33 | |
within communities. | 1:17:33 | 1:17:38 | |
Obviously, from my perspective,
I am absolutely committed to denying | 1:17:38 | 1:17:40 | |
them any potential oxygen
in that respect. | 1:17:40 | 1:17:42 | |
Although the majority
of injuries from attacks | 1:17:42 | 1:17:43 | |
aren't life-threatening,
they can be life-changing | 1:17:43 | 1:17:45 | |
and campaigners argue the mental
health consequences can be | 1:17:45 | 1:17:47 | |
the most damaging. | 1:17:47 | 1:17:52 | |
Let's talk to Koulla Yiasouma,
Northern Ireland's Commisioner | 1:17:52 | 1:17:54 | |
for Children and Young people. | 1:17:54 | 1:17:56 | |
Tommy McCourt is a mediator
at the Rosemount Centre in Derry. | 1:17:56 | 1:18:04 | |
I want to ask you Tommy McCourt
first of all why do some parents | 1:18:04 | 1:18:09 | |
choose to hand over their sons to
the paramilitaries to be subject to | 1:18:09 | 1:18:16 | |
a so-called punishment beating or
shooting? Well, I mean that's a very | 1:18:16 | 1:18:22 | |
difficult question to simply | 1:18:22 | 1:18:23 | |
shooting? Well, I mean that's a very
difficult question to simply answer. | 1:18:23 | 1:18:24 | |
What you need to do is ask why are
the punishment shootings taking | 1:18:24 | 1:18:30 | |
place in the first place and also to
look at the overall history of this | 1:18:30 | 1:18:34 | |
society that we have been living in
for 40 years. If someone is coming | 1:18:34 | 1:18:39 | |
to tell a parent that their son, his
behaviour has got to a level or it | 1:18:39 | 1:18:45 | |
has got to a point where he has to
be stopped in one form or another, | 1:18:45 | 1:18:52 | |
that's an indictment of our society
in not being able to put proper | 1:18:52 | 1:18:58 | |
resources in place to deal with
these things. Why wouldn't people go | 1:18:58 | 1:19:01 | |
to the police to report anti-social
behaviour? Well, people, some people | 1:19:01 | 1:19:06 | |
will go to the police. This is not,
them or us attitude. Some people try | 1:19:06 | 1:19:13 | |
all sorts of different
methodologies. They go to social | 1:19:13 | 1:19:16 | |
workers and the local church and
they go to the police, they go to | 1:19:16 | 1:19:20 | |
local communities and different
organisations to try and get help | 1:19:20 | 1:19:23 | |
because their son is maybe behaving
in a fashion which is creating | 1:19:23 | 1:19:26 | |
mayhem within their communities or
taking drugs or selling drugs or | 1:19:26 | 1:19:30 | |
whatever and parents do, as what
parents do, they do everything in | 1:19:30 | 1:19:34 | |
their power to prevent this and try
and stop it, but the reality is | 1:19:34 | 1:19:39 | |
there is insufficient resources to
be able to deal with this and | 1:19:39 | 1:19:42 | |
sometimes, you have to be careful
here, if you try to explain these | 1:19:42 | 1:19:45 | |
things or try to analyse them in
some fashion you are maybe portrayed | 1:19:45 | 1:19:50 | |
as trying to justify them. I want to
be clear, our position is | 1:19:50 | 1:19:53 | |
straightforward. We make it clear
from day one that violence is not | 1:19:53 | 1:19:57 | |
the answer to social problems. But
at the same time, if you're going to | 1:19:57 | 1:20:02 | |
say violence isn't the answer you
have to say what is and if the | 1:20:02 | 1:20:08 | |
resources aren't there then
frustration sets in and because of | 1:20:08 | 1:20:11 | |
the history of this society that we
have been living in, there is a | 1:20:11 | 1:20:15 | |
tendency for people to say if we
don't get help from the state and if | 1:20:15 | 1:20:18 | |
we don't get it from outside, we
will turn to our own people and | 1:20:18 | 1:20:23 | |
that's where marred military
organisations step into the picture. | 1:20:23 | 1:20:30 | |
Koulla How do you react to the
significant rise in the punishment | 1:20:30 | 1:20:34 | |
shootings and beatings particularly
on young people? I am appalled and | 1:20:34 | 1:20:38 | |
what your piece today has
highlighted just how devastating it | 1:20:38 | 1:20:41 | |
is, not only to the lives of
children and young people | 1:20:41 | 1:20:44 | |
themselves, but their families and
their communities and Tommy is | 1:20:44 | 1:20:48 | |
right, this is a multi-facetted
issue. So there is the issue of | 1:20:48 | 1:20:51 | |
making sure that the criminal
justice systems have the support of | 1:20:51 | 1:20:55 | |
the local community to be able to
deal with their issues. If you see | 1:20:55 | 1:20:59 | |
somebody committing a crime, you
should report it. If you see | 1:20:59 | 1:21:03 | |
somebody abusing or assaulting a
young person or anybody else, you | 1:21:03 | 1:21:05 | |
should feel the confidence to be
able to report it, but why is it in | 1:21:05 | 1:21:10 | |
particular communities and we have
to look at stained funding. We have | 1:21:10 | 1:21:14 | |
to look at support for communities
because these communities are | 1:21:14 | 1:21:22 | |
vibrant, but disjointed funding,
piecemeal funding, different people | 1:21:22 | 1:21:25 | |
doing different things in different
ways isn't helping to find a | 1:21:25 | 1:21:28 | |
long-term solution to this issue.
And just one thing, let's not | 1:21:28 | 1:21:35 | |
romanticise, these aren't
paramilitaries fighting for a cause, | 1:21:35 | 1:21:37 | |
these are in the main criminal gangs
fighting, looking to take control so | 1:21:37 | 1:21:44 | |
that they can continue with their
criminal activity whether it is drug | 1:21:44 | 1:21:48 | |
dealing or any sort of criminal
activity and they are trying to | 1:21:48 | 1:21:51 | |
control children and young people.
Even if there were more resources | 1:21:51 | 1:21:56 | |
that wouldn't necessarily lead to
communities trusting the police | 1:21:56 | 1:21:59 | |
more? How does that happen? There
needs to be a piece of work, the | 1:21:59 | 1:22:05 | |
police need to go in there and not
just the police, our Criminal | 1:22:05 | 1:22:10 | |
Justice System, I have heard
continually from communities and let | 1:22:10 | 1:22:13 | |
me say that I have been working on
this from the day and hour I became | 1:22:13 | 1:22:17 | |
commissioner and other organisations
and you have heard from some of them | 1:22:17 | 1:22:20 | |
today have been working on this a
lot longer including my office under | 1:22:20 | 1:22:25 | |
my predecessor, but the police and
the whole Criminal Justice System | 1:22:25 | 1:22:28 | |
need to go in and demonstrate to
these communities that they are | 1:22:28 | 1:22:33 | |
there police service, that they are
their Criminal Justice System. Since | 1:22:33 | 1:22:38 | |
2009 we have had devolution of crime
and justice. The parties who signed | 1:22:38 | 1:22:42 | |
up to devolution of policing, are
the ones who are getting the highest | 1:22:42 | 1:22:47 | |
votes. They must send the message to
their communities and the police and | 1:22:47 | 1:22:51 | |
the rest of the Criminal Justice
System must demonstrate on a day and | 1:22:51 | 1:22:55 | |
daily basis, not just when something
happens and then they just walk in, | 1:22:55 | 1:22:58 | |
but on a day and daily basis that
they are there for them. They are | 1:22:58 | 1:23:02 | |
there to protect them, not just to
criminalise them and not just to | 1:23:02 | 1:23:06 | |
arrest them which they should do if
a crime is being committed, but they | 1:23:06 | 1:23:09 | |
are there to keep them safe. Tommy,
let me read some messages from our | 1:23:09 | 1:23:14 | |
audience to you. This text from
Chris, "What the paramilitary groups | 1:23:14 | 1:23:19 | |
are doing to teenagers is illegal
and unacceptable. This is the no the | 1:23:19 | 1:23:22 | |
Wild West. The police and courts are
there to decide on punishment | 1:23:22 | 1:23:26 | |
legally and fairly. Anybody who
thinks the paramilitaries are doing | 1:23:26 | 1:23:30 | |
the community a service, they are
wrong. For them to scare, threaten, | 1:23:30 | 1:23:33 | |
mums and dads to take their children
to be beaten or shot or knee capped | 1:23:33 | 1:23:38 | |
is sick." Neil, there are a couple
like this, Tommy, "Am I supposed to | 1:23:38 | 1:23:43 | |
feel sorry for the young men who
involve themselves in criminal | 1:23:43 | 1:23:47 | |
activity that they know is likely to
result in a punishment beating? Play | 1:23:47 | 1:23:52 | |
with fire and you get burned." What
dud say to that? Well, I think it | 1:23:52 | 1:23:59 | |
demonstrates the ambivalence that
there is towards this. Again, I | 1:23:59 | 1:24:01 | |
think you have to understand in the
history and the context of the state | 1:24:01 | 1:24:05 | |
that we're living in. I mean we
would see people and hear people | 1:24:05 | 1:24:09 | |
regularly saying things that was
terrible, that young man being shot | 1:24:09 | 1:24:12 | |
was an awful thing and two seconds
later out of the same voice, it says | 1:24:12 | 1:24:16 | |
but he didn't get it for nothing. He
didn't get it for saying his | 1:24:16 | 1:24:19 | |
prayers. The behaviour of these
young people are destroying our | 1:24:19 | 1:24:23 | |
communities and ruining the lives of
people living within the communities | 1:24:23 | 1:24:26 | |
and somebody needs to do something
about it. Now, I mean, that's not to | 1:24:26 | 1:24:31 | |
justify the shooting and I want to
be clear about that, but it does | 1:24:31 | 1:24:35 | |
raise the question if this behaviour
is inscresing, which -- increasing | 1:24:35 | 1:24:40 | |
which it seem to be, there needs to
be activity or some kind of action | 1:24:40 | 1:24:44 | |
or programmes to look at it
rationally, not in an emotional | 1:24:44 | 1:24:47 | |
sense. I mean, you know, I have just
listened to and people have their | 1:24:47 | 1:24:54 | |
own views, but for somebody to say,
"They are all criminal gangs and all | 1:24:54 | 1:24:57 | |
they are interested in is drug
dealing or whatever." The people who | 1:24:57 | 1:25:01 | |
are involved in the organisation
like it or lump it are the same type | 1:25:01 | 1:25:04 | |
of people who were involved in the
republican movement whether it is | 1:25:04 | 1:25:09 | |
the provisional IRA or Sinn Fein who
have moved on into political debate | 1:25:09 | 1:25:13 | |
and it is similar type of people who
don't agree with the position that's | 1:25:13 | 1:25:16 | |
going on. You can condemn their
actions and all the rest, but | 1:25:16 | 1:25:19 | |
sometimes you have to be able to be
rational in dealing with them and I | 1:25:19 | 1:25:24 | |
agree that you know programmes, we
ran a programme here in Derry for | 1:25:24 | 1:25:28 | |
four years, called Time to Choose.
Within that programme we have dealt | 1:25:28 | 1:25:32 | |
with over 1300, 1300 cases which
could potentially have gone towards | 1:25:32 | 1:25:38 | |
a punishment beating or shooting and
every last one was resolved and they | 1:25:38 | 1:25:42 | |
were resolved without violence and
resolved with helping the young | 1:25:42 | 1:25:45 | |
people to move in a different
direction and we called the | 1:25:45 | 1:25:48 | |
programme Time to Choose. That
programme is no longer funded and we | 1:25:48 | 1:25:52 | |
are doing this voluntarily. You
mediated between young people who | 1:25:52 | 1:25:57 | |
had potentially been involved in
anti-social behaviour and the | 1:25:57 | 1:26:02 | |
paramilitaries, did you? Well, it is
not a direct line, you call a | 1:26:02 | 1:26:05 | |
meeting in the bar or a meeting in
some office with a paramilitary. | 1:26:05 | 1:26:09 | |
There are lines of communication
which have been in existence from | 1:26:09 | 1:26:12 | |
the start of the troubles and always
have been. Direct lines of | 1:26:12 | 1:26:14 | |
communication in Number Ten Downing
Street. So, for people to assume | 1:26:14 | 1:26:17 | |
that there is no longer any method
of contacting people it is foolish. | 1:26:17 | 1:26:22 | |
Certainly, we do have some means of
contact, but those means of contact | 1:26:22 | 1:26:26 | |
we try to find out what is the issue
here? Why is this person being | 1:26:26 | 1:26:30 | |
threatened? What is their behaviour
and we do our best to resolve it. It | 1:26:30 | 1:26:38 | |
means trying to convince local
communities that doing is being done | 1:26:38 | 1:26:41 | |
to alleviate the problem. Koulla Why
do you think some people tolerate | 1:26:41 | 1:26:48 | |
the attacks on young people? I think
it's probably because they just feel | 1:26:48 | 1:26:54 | |
so frustrated that they can't find a
long-term solution and resolution to | 1:26:54 | 1:27:00 | |
certain behaviours by young people
and anyone who thinks that anybody | 1:27:00 | 1:27:04 | |
can do anything that justifies an
arbitrary response like this, a | 1:27:04 | 1:27:10 | |
violent response like this is sorely
mistaken. Communities who are | 1:27:10 | 1:27:15 | |
affected deeply by anti-social and
criminal behaviour by young people | 1:27:15 | 1:27:19 | |
or anybody else have a right to be
safe. That was the point I was | 1:27:19 | 1:27:22 | |
trying to make about criminal
justice systems, the police going in | 1:27:22 | 1:27:26 | |
and keeping the communities safe.
Finding a timely and speedy response | 1:27:26 | 1:27:31 | |
to young people and also then going
in behind them working with, there | 1:27:31 | 1:27:37 | |
is fantastic community organisations
across our communities in Northern | 1:27:37 | 1:27:40 | |
Ireland, with a sustained plan, with
a plan that's been developed by the | 1:27:40 | 1:27:45 | |
community, including young people,
including adults, of all ages and | 1:27:45 | 1:27:48 | |
going in there on a long-term basis
and saying, "Let's work on this | 1:27:48 | 1:27:52 | |
together. Let's fund what needs to
be doneded." The first thing that | 1:27:52 | 1:28:00 | |
has to happen is communities have to
have confidence in their Criminal | 1:28:00 | 1:28:03 | |
Justice System. The police is there
for them and I understand | 1:28:03 | 1:28:07 | |
frustration when they see young
people committing crime or anybody | 1:28:07 | 1:28:10 | |
else committing crime and no
response, but let me tell you and we | 1:28:10 | 1:28:13 | |
all agree that, it's not right, it's
not legitimate and it's outrageous | 1:28:13 | 1:28:18 | |
the way we are responding to this
sort of behaviour by young people is | 1:28:18 | 1:28:22 | |
violence. It does not justify this
sort of thing and it has to stop and | 1:28:22 | 1:28:26 | |
these people have to be arrested and
brought to book. Thank you both. | 1:28:26 | 1:28:29 | |
Thank you very much.
Northern Ireland's commissioner for | 1:28:29 | 1:28:33 | |
children and young people and Tommy
McCourt, a mediator at the Rosemount | 1:28:33 | 1:28:38 | |
Centre in Derry, thank you. | 1:28:38 | 1:28:45 | |
Still to come: | 1:28:45 | 1:28:46 | |
As the future
of Zimbabwe hangs in the balance, | 1:28:46 | 1:28:48 | |
we'll bring you the latest analysis
on what happens next. | 1:28:48 | 1:28:50 | |
Ministers are expected to discuss
the next Brexit steps | 1:28:50 | 1:28:52 | |
at a mini-Cabinet meeting later. | 1:28:52 | 1:28:54 | |
But how much should Britain pay
to get talks moving forward? | 1:28:54 | 1:28:56 | |
We'll have insight from across
the political spectrum. | 1:28:56 | 1:29:01 | |
Time for the latest
news, here's Rebecca. | 1:29:03 | 1:29:09 | |
The BBC News headlines this morning. | 1:29:09 | 1:29:12 | |
The deadline set by Zimbabwe's
ruling party for President Robert | 1:29:12 | 1:29:14 | |
Mugabe to resign or face
impeachment has expired. | 1:29:14 | 1:29:20 | |
In a speech to the nation last
night, Mr Mugabe made it | 1:29:20 | 1:29:23 | |
clear he had no intention
of stepping down. | 1:29:23 | 1:29:33 | |
The formal process could begin
tomorrow. The MDC may refuse to | 1:29:41 | 1:29:50 | |
support the Zanu-PF motion. | 1:29:50 | 1:29:53 | |
The German President Frank-Walter
Steinmeier is to hold crisis talks | 1:29:54 | 1:29:56 | |
with Chancellor Angela Merkel,
after her failed attempt to forge | 1:29:56 | 1:29:59 | |
a coalition cast doubts
over her political future. | 1:29:59 | 1:30:00 | |
The centrist Free Democrats pulled
out of talks late last night, | 1:30:00 | 1:30:05 | |
blaming irreconcilable differences
with Mrs Merkel's Christian | 1:30:05 | 1:30:08 | |
Democrats and the other party
in the talks, the Greens. | 1:30:08 | 1:30:16 | |
Police say there were no injuries
to suggest "any other person | 1:30:16 | 1:30:22 | |
was involved" in the death
of the missing teenager Gaia Pope. | 1:30:22 | 1:30:24 | |
The 19-year-old's body was found
on Saturday in a field near Swanage, | 1:30:24 | 1:30:28 | |
11 days after she was last seen. | 1:30:28 | 1:30:29 | |
Dorset Police are treating her death
as "unexplained" pending | 1:30:29 | 1:30:31 | |
toxicology results. | 1:30:31 | 1:30:36 | |
The convicted cult
leader Charles Manson - | 1:30:36 | 1:30:39 | |
who orchestrated a series
of notorious murders in the 1960s - | 1:30:39 | 1:30:42 | |
has died in prison in
California at the age of 83. | 1:30:42 | 1:30:45 | |
In 1969, members of his group killed
seven people including | 1:30:45 | 1:30:48 | |
the actress Sharon Tate,
wife of the film director, | 1:30:48 | 1:30:50 | |
Roman Polanski. | 1:30:50 | 1:30:54 | |
Manson himself was initially
sentenced to death, before | 1:30:54 | 1:30:56 | |
the penalty was abolished
in California. | 1:30:56 | 1:31:01 | |
Women are being advised to sleep
on their side in the last three | 1:31:01 | 1:31:05 | |
months of pregnancy to avoid having
a stillborn baby. | 1:31:05 | 1:31:13 | |
A study of just over 1,000 women
found the risk doubles if women go | 1:31:13 | 1:31:18 | |
to sleep on their backs,
but researchers say | 1:31:18 | 1:31:20 | |
women should not worry
if they are on their back | 1:31:20 | 1:31:22 | |
when they wake up. | 1:31:22 | 1:31:23 | |
The study authors estimate that
about 130 babies' lives a year | 1:31:23 | 1:31:26 | |
could be saved if this advice
was followed. | 1:31:26 | 1:31:28 | |
The Queen and Prince Philip
are celebrating their 70th | 1:31:28 | 1:31:33 | |
wedding anniversary today -
the longest in the Royal | 1:31:33 | 1:31:35 | |
family's history. | 1:31:35 | 1:31:37 | |
The occasion is being marked
with a new series of portraits, | 1:31:37 | 1:31:39 | |
a set of stamps and a private party
for the Royal Family | 1:31:39 | 1:31:42 | |
at Windsor Castle. | 1:31:42 | 1:31:45 | |
The church's bells of Westminster
Abbey, where they married, | 1:31:45 | 1:31:47 | |
will ring for more than three hours
to mark the occasion. | 1:31:47 | 1:31:51 | |
That's a summary of
the latest BBC News. | 1:31:51 | 1:32:00 | |
And here is some sport now. | 1:32:00 | 1:32:01 | |
Former Wimbledon champion
Jana Novotna has died, aged 49. | 1:32:01 | 1:32:05 | |
In a statement, the Women's Tennis
Association confirmed that | 1:32:05 | 1:32:07 | |
Novotna died yesterday,
surrounded by her family | 1:32:07 | 1:32:09 | |
in her native Czech Republic,
after a long battle with cancer. | 1:32:09 | 1:32:13 | |
She was famously consoled
by the Dutchess of Kent after losing | 1:32:13 | 1:32:16 | |
the Wimbledon final in 1993,
before eventually winning | 1:32:16 | 1:32:18 | |
the title in 1998. | 1:32:18 | 1:32:28 | |
West Brom has sacked
manager Tony Pulis, | 1:32:28 | 1:32:30 | |
with the club just a point
above the Premier League zone. | 1:32:30 | 1:32:37 | |
with the club just a point above
the Premier League relegation zone. | 1:32:38 | 1:32:41 | |
In a statement, the club's chairman
John Williams says results have been | 1:32:41 | 1:32:44 | |
"very disappointing." | 1:32:44 | 1:32:45 | |
West Brom have managed two
wins in their last 21 | 1:32:45 | 1:32:47 | |
Premier League games,
and were thrashed 4-0 | 1:32:47 | 1:32:49 | |
by Chelsea over the weekend. | 1:32:49 | 1:32:50 | |
Assistant Head Coach Gary Megson
will take over until further notice. | 1:32:50 | 1:32:53 | |
England's men cricketers have
arrived in Brisbane ahead | 1:32:53 | 1:32:55 | |
of their first Ashes Test
at the Gabba on Thursday. | 1:32:55 | 1:32:57 | |
Seem to be in relaxed
mood, don't they? | 1:32:57 | 1:32:59 | |
Boosted by the news perhaps that
pace bowler Jake Ball has confirmed | 1:32:59 | 1:33:02 | |
he is fit for that match,
after overcoming an ankle injury. | 1:33:02 | 1:33:04 | |
And golfer Tommy Fleetwood has won
the Race to Dubai title | 1:33:04 | 1:33:09 | |
to cap a remarkable year
for the Englishman. | 1:33:09 | 1:33:11 | |
In the biggest victory
of his career, Fleetwood | 1:33:11 | 1:33:13 | |
held off the challenge
of Olympic Champion Justin Rose. | 1:33:13 | 1:33:15 | |
And it means Fleetwood is now
Europe's top player. | 1:33:15 | 1:33:25 | |
So, there is uncertainty about
Zimbabwe's future. | 1:33:28 | 1:33:33 | |
Robert Mugabe has been
told he had to stand | 1:33:33 | 1:33:35 | |
down by 10am our time
or face impeachment. | 1:33:35 | 1:33:41 | |
Robert Mugabe has ruled Zimbabwe for
almost 40 years now. How will he be | 1:33:41 | 1:33:45 | |
remembered? | 1:33:45 | 1:33:55 | |
I do swear that I will be faithful
and bear true allegiance to | 1:34:27 | 1:34:30 | |
Zimbabwe. | 1:34:30 | 1:34:33 | |
Let's talk now to Lloyd Msipa. | 1:35:40 | 1:35:42 | |
He is a friend and supporter | 1:35:42 | 1:35:43 | |
of Robert Mugabe -
he says he is "sad" | 1:35:43 | 1:35:45 | |
about the situation and that Mugabe
has been a brilliant father | 1:35:45 | 1:35:48 | |
of the nation who
deserves forgiveness, | 1:35:48 | 1:35:58 | |
Why is he a father of the nation?
Mugabe is an African icon. And what | 1:35:58 | 1:36:03 | |
is happening now is sad in the sense
that he is refusing to listen to his | 1:36:03 | 1:36:11 | |
own people. That is potentially
going to affect his legacy. He was a | 1:36:11 | 1:36:15 | |
revolutionary. He had the land
redistribution exercise. If you | 1:36:15 | 1:36:22 | |
notice, even the military are try to
negotiate with him. No heavy | 1:36:22 | 1:36:26 | |
handedness from the military,
because they want to see how much | 1:36:26 | 1:36:29 | |
they can protect that legacy so that
he goes out in a dignified way. That | 1:36:29 | 1:36:35 | |
deadline has passed for him to
resign, 40 minutes ago. We know he | 1:36:35 | 1:36:40 | |
is a survivor. He has been in power
for 37 years. And he has ruled | 1:36:40 | 1:36:45 | |
Zimbabwe with an iron grip. How long
can he hang on? Well, it's in his | 1:36:45 | 1:36:53 | |
nature. His brain is always working.
He is one of those politicians who | 1:36:53 | 1:37:00 | |
has respect across Africa. But at
this time, he probably understands | 1:37:00 | 1:37:03 | |
that he has been rejected by his own
military, he has been rejected by | 1:37:03 | 1:37:08 | |
the people and his party has kicked
him out. So for him, the writing is | 1:37:08 | 1:37:12 | |
on the wall. What is left now is for
him to step down. That is what they | 1:37:12 | 1:37:16 | |
have been trying to do and it
appears that either somebody out | 1:37:16 | 1:37:20 | |
there is telling him to dig in, or
it is not in his nature to reject | 1:37:20 | 1:37:29 | |
others. My concern is that there are
others telling him what to do. That | 1:37:29 | 1:37:33 | |
doesn't sound like the Robert Mugabe
that we know. That is my concern, | 1:37:33 | 1:37:44 | |
that there are somebody pulling the
strings from elsewhere. Like who? | 1:37:44 | 1:37:49 | |
Somebody like the Foreign Minister,
who is out there and has been | 1:37:49 | 1:37:54 | |
talking to ministers in Botswana.
There are others who still have | 1:37:54 | 1:37:59 | |
access to him. We cannot jam mobile
communications, so somebody | 1:37:59 | 1:38:06 | |
somewhere is speaking to him. It
could be his wife. It could be his | 1:38:06 | 1:38:12 | |
wife. But these people are going to
potentially cause anarchy, because | 1:38:12 | 1:38:19 | |
as long as this thing draws out, the
people will become impatient. You | 1:38:19 | 1:38:25 | |
say he is an African icon and father
of the nation. People here disagree. | 1:38:25 | 1:38:30 | |
How will Robert Mugabe be remembered
by the world, as a horrible man, a | 1:38:30 | 1:38:38 | |
racist, and a corrupt politician? I
am not saying he is a saint, but he | 1:38:38 | 1:38:42 | |
is still a revolutionary. He took
the country from where it was, in | 1:38:42 | 1:38:47 | |
the hands of the coloniser, and gave
it to his own people. After that, he | 1:38:47 | 1:38:51 | |
took the land, something Mandela
never did, and tried to run the | 1:38:51 | 1:38:56 | |
economy through in digitisation
programmes. He is dearly loved by | 1:38:56 | 1:39:00 | |
his own people. But at the same
time, they feel that he is now an | 1:39:00 | 1:39:05 | |
old man. He is not dearly loved by
all people in Zimbabwe, not those | 1:39:05 | 1:39:08 | |
who were brutally oppressed by him.
It will depend on what you call | 1:39:08 | 1:39:13 | |
loved, but there is a lot of respect
for what he stands for, the values | 1:39:13 | 1:39:18 | |
of the liberation struggle, the
image that he has put straight that | 1:39:18 | 1:39:27 | |
are portrayed. Let me introduce some
more guests. We have a member of the | 1:39:27 | 1:39:33 | |
main opposition party in Zimbabwe,
the Movement for Democratic Change. | 1:39:33 | 1:39:39 | |
Also with us is Dr Knox Chitiyo from
the international foreign affairs | 1:39:39 | 1:39:45 | |
think-tank Chatham House. He is a
Zimbabwean who covers Zimbabwe. We | 1:39:45 | 1:39:51 | |
will talk to two people in Zimbabwe
in just a moment. As an opposition | 1:39:51 | 1:39:59 | |
politician, what do you think will
happen next? Mugabe is going to be | 1:39:59 | 1:40:02 | |
kicked out by his party. It is time
for him to go. But he is still | 1:40:02 | 1:40:08 | |
there. He has oppressed us for 37
years. I heard the fellow saying he | 1:40:08 | 1:40:13 | |
was a father of the nation. No, he
is not. The man is a dictator who | 1:40:13 | 1:40:17 | |
has oppressed us and ruined the
country. He has made most of us in | 1:40:17 | 1:40:20 | |
the UK run away from our country. We
were forced to leave our country. So | 1:40:20 | 1:40:27 | |
we want him to go. And we wanted
transition of government that is | 1:40:27 | 1:40:34 | |
inclusive of all the political
parties and civic organisations. And | 1:40:34 | 1:40:38 | |
we demand from Zanu-PF that they do
not sideline the opposition like | 1:40:38 | 1:40:41 | |
they did before. We are also looking
for a new voters' role. -- a new | 1:40:41 | 1:40:58 | |
voters' law. We know there are over
1 million dead voters on it. So we | 1:40:58 | 1:41:03 | |
want a new one and we want the
transition government to include | 1:41:03 | 1:41:09 | |
voters' role server Zanu-PF | 1:41:09 | 1:41:10 | |
transition government to include
voters' role server Zanu-PF. | 1:41:10 | 1:41:10 | |
Stealing the elections. We also want
these elections to be | 1:41:10 | 1:41:14 | |
internationally monitored and they
should be free and fair and there | 1:41:14 | 1:41:16 | |
will not be any intimidation. We are
fed up with Zanu-PF and Mugabe. What | 1:41:16 | 1:41:23 | |
do you think will happen? There are
a number of things happening | 1:41:23 | 1:41:27 | |
simultaneously. The generals are
talking to Mugabe. The party will be | 1:41:27 | 1:41:35 | |
talking to him, and an impeachment
process is likely to begin any time | 1:41:35 | 1:41:38 | |
now. That could take time. So he may
hang on for a bit longer, but as | 1:41:38 | 1:41:46 | |
everyone agrees, the longer this
drags out, the more volatile the | 1:41:46 | 1:41:50 | |
situation gets. We have at the
moment is a national convergence | 1:41:50 | 1:41:55 | |
where the people and the military
and the politicians agree that he | 1:41:55 | 1:41:58 | |
has to go. Beyond that, if it drags
on longer, the national Maksel fault | 1:41:58 | 1:42:04 | |
lines in Zimbabwe could develop into
a dangerous situation. Let me speak | 1:42:04 | 1:42:08 | |
to two residents. Glanis, what is it
like in Harare at the moment with | 1:42:08 | 1:42:20 | |
Robert Mugabe still your president? | 1:42:20 | 1:42:31 | |
What is happening comes from the
anxiety that people have of getting | 1:42:33 | 1:42:38 | |
Robert Mugabe to resign or get him
impeached. I think he is not going | 1:42:38 | 1:42:43 | |
to come back as our president and I
don't want to see him coming back. | 1:42:43 | 1:42:49 | |
Given that he is taking longer to
give in to the demands by the | 1:42:49 | 1:42:53 | |
military, I think people just need
to go back onto the streets like we | 1:42:53 | 1:42:55 | |
did on Saturday. This time, my
coachman to fellow citizens who we | 1:42:55 | 1:43:01 | |
are mobilising right now is, let's
not leave the streets of Harare | 1:43:01 | 1:43:05 | |
until Robert Mugabe goes. He needs
to see the muscle of the people. Let | 1:43:05 | 1:43:15 | |
me bring in Patience in Bulawayo.
Glanis was appealing to people to | 1:43:15 | 1:43:19 | |
get out on the streets and stay
there until Robert Mugabe has gone. | 1:43:19 | 1:43:23 | |
Patience, do you want the same to
happen in Bulawayo? After | 1:43:23 | 1:43:30 | |
experiencing Saturday, where
everyone was marching for a better | 1:43:30 | 1:43:34 | |
Zimbabwe, they didn't care about
political parties, they didn't care | 1:43:34 | 1:43:37 | |
if you were black, white, yellow or
blue, I think everyone is now United | 1:43:37 | 1:43:41 | |
for one cause. And the best cause
for now is a better Zimbabwe. I am | 1:43:41 | 1:43:50 | |
sure he saw as well that the people
have spoken. You can't have | 1:43:50 | 1:43:54 | |
thousands of people across the
country, and it wasn't just across | 1:43:54 | 1:43:57 | |
the country, it was across the world
where every Zimbabwean, wherever | 1:43:57 | 1:44:03 | |
they work, came together, and we
were marching for him to see that | 1:44:03 | 1:44:06 | |
the people have spoken and he needs
to hear what they are saying. | 1:44:06 | 1:44:10 | |
Ephraim Tapa joins us as well from
the Movement for Democratic Change, | 1:44:10 | 1:44:23 | |
an opposition party. Tell us why you
were exile here? I arrived in the UK | 1:44:23 | 1:44:34 | |
in 2002, having been rescued from a
torture place where I had been held | 1:44:34 | 1:44:42 | |
for 23 days. I experienced
horrendous torture thank God I was | 1:44:42 | 1:44:58 | |
rescued. Basically, the opposition
movement, the trade union movement | 1:44:58 | 1:45:07 | |
which belonged to, facilitate my
escape from Zimbabwe. I came to the | 1:45:07 | 1:45:13 | |
UK. Can you imagine going home under
a new president? It would be | 1:45:13 | 1:45:26 | |
fantastic to go back home and a new
president. But I have got my | 1:45:26 | 1:45:33 | |
apprehensions with the way things
are playing out. For instance, we | 1:45:33 | 1:45:39 | |
must look at all of what is
happening within the context of the | 1:45:39 | 1:45:47 | |
Zanu-PF factions fighting over his
succession. If you look at that, you | 1:45:47 | 1:45:53 | |
are also looking at the possibility
of one Zanu-PF henchmen are fighting | 1:45:53 | 1:46:09 | |
over Zimbabwe. These are the same
people who denied the opposition | 1:46:09 | 1:46:17 | |
their electoral victory in 2008.
These are the same people who | 1:46:17 | 1:46:27 | |
orchestrated the genocide... | 1:46:27 | 1:46:33 | |
I want to bring our guests in the
studio back in. You have talked | 1:46:33 | 1:46:40 | |
about potentially the situation on
the streets getting a bit more | 1:46:40 | 1:46:44 | |
difficult. One guest earlier talked
about a decent into anarchy being | 1:46:44 | 1:46:49 | |
possible. What if Mugabe steps down
or is forced to step down and the | 1:46:49 | 1:46:57 | |
Vice-President steps in? Is that OK
with you? Yes, that's, let's look at | 1:46:57 | 1:47:03 | |
this in its proper context. Whilst
we appreciate and value the | 1:47:03 | 1:47:11 | |
opposition and every Zimbabwean
united in this course to get Mugabe | 1:47:11 | 1:47:15 | |
to step down. The premise of this
whole exercise was to democratise | 1:47:15 | 1:47:23 | |
Zanu-PF, that's how it started and
that's why the military stepped in | 1:47:23 | 1:47:26 | |
in the first place. Obviously it has
become bigger than what it initially | 1:47:26 | 1:47:30 | |
was thought to be and we are happy
that the opposition are buying into | 1:47:30 | 1:47:34 | |
this whole exercise because we share
one common goal, we want Mugabe to | 1:47:34 | 1:47:39 | |
step down and get his replacement
coming in. Zanu-PF has been | 1:47:39 | 1:47:44 | |
bottlenecked for so many years. What
is happening now is a product of the | 1:47:44 | 1:47:48 | |
succession failure. If Mugabe had
dealt with the succession issues | 1:47:48 | 1:47:52 | |
earlier on, we wouldn't behaving
this problem. The faction at Zanu-PF | 1:47:52 | 1:47:59 | |
is a result of Mugabe's entrance
against. Thank you. | 1:47:59 | 1:48:03 | |
-- entrance against. | 1:48:03 | 1:48:05 | |
Ministers are expected to discuss
the next Brexit steps at a mini | 1:48:08 | 1:48:10 | |
Cabinet meeting later. | 1:48:10 | 1:48:11 | |
On the agenda will be
a key sticking point | 1:48:11 | 1:48:13 | |
in the negotiations with Brussels,
how much we should pay | 1:48:13 | 1:48:16 | |
to settle our debts with the EU
and unlock the stalled talks. | 1:48:16 | 1:48:26 | |
Nina Schick is a political adviser
and commentator from Germany | 1:48:27 | 1:48:30 | |
and we can talk to Brexit-supporting
founder of Wetherspoons | 1:48:30 | 1:48:33 | |
pubs, Tim Martin. | 1:48:33 | 1:48:35 | |
Thank you very much for coming on
the programme. I'm going to start | 1:48:35 | 1:48:39 | |
with you Tim Martin. Are you
surprised that our list of | 1:48:39 | 1:48:43 | |
liabilities, what we owe, isn't a
matter of fact, but seems to be more | 1:48:43 | 1:48:47 | |
a matter of opinion? Yes. I
understand that the legal position | 1:48:47 | 1:48:55 | |
from the Government is that we are
under no obligation to pay anything. | 1:48:55 | 1:49:00 | |
So it's one of those situations
where in a divorce you don't have to | 1:49:00 | 1:49:04 | |
pay anything, but you might do so to
be nice. | 1:49:04 | 1:49:09 | |
You clearly believe that legal
opinion, but it doesn't make sense, | 1:49:09 | 1:49:12 | |
does it? We have signed off what we
owe them as a member and now that | 1:49:12 | 1:49:19 | |
we're removing ourselves, we need to
settle up with our leucts? Well, all | 1:49:19 | 1:49:27 | |
the public knows is the legal advice
that the Government has had and the | 1:49:27 | 1:49:31 | |
legal advice, which hasn't con
contradicted so far as I am aware, | 1:49:31 | 1:49:35 | |
is that we are under no legal
obligation to pay anything. We might | 1:49:35 | 1:49:40 | |
decide to do so anyway if we feel
there is some sort of moral | 1:49:40 | 1:49:45 | |
obligation, but that's a different
matter really. OK. You spend a lot | 1:49:45 | 1:49:51 | |
of time talking to figures in
Brussels. What do the Europeans | 1:49:51 | 1:49:56 | |
think about this sticking point over
the bill? Well, it's quite clear. | 1:49:56 | 1:49:59 | |
For them this is really a legal
issue, will the UK honour its | 1:49:59 | 1:50:03 | |
commitments or not? We won't see any
progress in the talks, the next | 1:50:03 | 1:50:07 | |
crunch point is in December unless
the UK decides to move and despite | 1:50:07 | 1:50:11 | |
the legal advice that Mr Martin just
quoted, I mean realistically, the | 1:50:11 | 1:50:15 | |
Government has conceded that it will
have to pay. So it's not contesting | 1:50:15 | 1:50:19 | |
the principle that it will have to
pay something, the only thing that | 1:50:19 | 1:50:24 | |
it is contesting is how big the
figure should be? Theresa May made a | 1:50:24 | 1:50:28 | |
suggestion of 20 billion and the EU
said well, that actually doesn't | 1:50:28 | 1:50:32 | |
cover your financial liabilities so
the kind of meeting, the Brexit | 1:50:32 | 1:50:36 | |
Cabinet meeting today, we think,
they are going to up the offer to 40 | 1:50:36 | 1:50:40 | |
billion to see if that moves talks
forward. So this idea that the UK is | 1:50:40 | 1:50:43 | |
not going to pay anything is not the
Government's position and it's not | 1:50:43 | 1:50:48 | |
the position of Brexit supporting
Cabinet Ministers either. | 1:50:48 | 1:50:51 | |
Are you surprised that there isn't a
list of what Britain is supposed to | 1:50:51 | 1:50:55 | |
pay up because of what we have said
we will pay as a member? There is a | 1:50:55 | 1:50:59 | |
list and the commission has, of
course, revealed what it contests in | 1:50:59 | 1:51:03 | |
the Brexit bill and the UK is going
through it line by line and trying | 1:51:03 | 1:51:09 | |
to diminish the overall sum and the
realisation is that the real issue | 1:51:09 | 1:51:14 | |
here is not the question of whether
or not the UK will pay, because even | 1:51:14 | 1:51:19 | |
though the sums sound large, 60
billion, 100 billion, in the grand | 1:51:19 | 1:51:22 | |
scheme of things, it is not that
much for the Government to pay | 1:51:22 | 1:51:25 | |
because if there is no deal the
Government would have a bigger | 1:51:25 | 1:51:28 | |
financial hit than the 60 billion,
20 billion, 40 billion. It's one | 1:51:28 | 1:51:33 | |
much more to do with domestic optics
because, of course, during the | 1:51:33 | 1:51:39 | |
campaign nobody said there would be
a Brexit bill or we would be having | 1:51:39 | 1:51:43 | |
to pay the EU to leave. So this is a
question of how can you portray this | 1:51:43 | 1:51:48 | |
at home without incensing the public
really? Tim Martin you are a | 1:51:48 | 1:51:52 | |
successful businessman. You
negotiated lots of times and | 1:51:52 | 1:51:54 | |
successfully lots of times. What
would you advice to get the talks | 1:51:54 | 1:51:57 | |
going? I'd say that we are under no
legal obligation to pay any money in | 1:51:57 | 1:52:07 | |
spite of what you have just heard.
It didn't amount to a legal | 1:52:07 | 1:52:10 | |
obligation. It is horse trading by
the EU. I would say we are perfectly | 1:52:10 | 1:52:15 | |
happy to trade on World Trade
Organisation rules, contrary to the | 1:52:15 | 1:52:19 | |
spin that will reduce food prices,
we will save £200 million per week | 1:52:19 | 1:52:26 | |
so the public knows unlike the
comments from your guest now that | 1:52:26 | 1:52:29 | |
that is one heck of a lot of money.
So I would say we want to be friends | 1:52:29 | 1:52:33 | |
with Europe. We want to trade with
Europe. We're not going to pay huge | 1:52:33 | 1:52:38 | |
sums of money and we're quite happy
to trade on World Trade Organisation | 1:52:38 | 1:52:43 | |
rules as we do with America, with
China, with India, etcetera. | 1:52:43 | 1:52:50 | |
OK. We will leave it there, thank
you. Thank you very much both of | 1:52:50 | 1:52:54 | |
you. | 1:52:54 | 1:52:56 | |
The American cult-leader
Charles Manson who masterminded | 1:52:56 | 1:52:58 | |
a killing spree in California
in 1969 has died in | 1:52:58 | 1:53:01 | |
prison at the age of 83. | 1:53:01 | 1:53:04 | |
Joining me is Cheish Merryweather
from the website CrimeViral.com. | 1:53:49 | 1:53:56 | |
Tell us why this, the way he
masterminded the killings has | 1:53:56 | 1:54:00 | |
fascinated people for decades?
I think it's definitely still that | 1:54:00 | 1:54:07 | |
fas narks with Charles Manson, if
you were to take one face of evil it | 1:54:07 | 1:54:11 | |
would be Charles Manson's face would
you see. He didn't commit any of the | 1:54:11 | 1:54:14 | |
murders, he just instructed young,
impressible, very intelligent, very | 1:54:14 | 1:54:19 | |
outgoing adults to go and commit the
worst crimes possible and I think it | 1:54:19 | 1:54:22 | |
still haunts still to this day a lot
of people. | 1:54:22 | 1:54:26 | |
How did you manage to manipulate
those well educated people? Over the | 1:54:26 | 1:54:31 | |
time it was out in the outskirts in
California, they were very young | 1:54:31 | 1:54:35 | |
followers and he took them, he band
clerks and calendars and watchers, | 1:54:35 | 1:54:43 | |
they were following under net his
rule and he instructed them to go to | 1:54:43 | 1:54:48 | |
the house to carry out the crimes in
his words in the most gruesome way | 1:54:48 | 1:54:52 | |
that they could do so. Most shocking
of all perhaps the killing of Susan | 1:54:52 | 1:55:01 | |
Tate who was eight-and-a-half months
pregnant? Just two weeks away from | 1:55:01 | 1:55:05 | |
giving birth and it is the home
invasion aspect. Especially as it | 1:55:05 | 1:55:09 | |
was on the end of the decade of free
love, part of the hippie culture had | 1:55:09 | 1:55:15 | |
been born, the summer 1967, two
years later, it was definitely | 1:55:15 | 1:55:21 | |
Sharon Tate's murder, the wife of
Roman Polanski the depravity of it | 1:55:21 | 1:55:33 | |
was barbaric. And what did the
followers think of Charles Manson? | 1:55:33 | 1:55:38 | |
Why were they willing to follow him
to such gruesome? They looked up to | 1:55:38 | 1:55:44 | |
him as very god-like. He wasn't
domineering. He wasn't threatening | 1:55:44 | 1:55:47 | |
in anyway. Charles Manson himself,
he is 5'3" inches, so he wasn't a | 1:55:47 | 1:55:56 | |
very overpowering figure, but
certainly especially in a lot of his | 1:55:56 | 1:55:59 | |
interviews which you can find
online, he has that voice and he can | 1:55:59 | 1:56:03 | |
talk and he has got that sort of
charisma that what he says goes. He | 1:56:03 | 1:56:07 | |
has a lot of commentaries about
society and how society is wrong and | 1:56:07 | 1:56:13 | |
then especially if you were to read
the book Healther Scelter. They were | 1:56:13 | 1:56:19 | |
young impressionable adults and they
believed anything he said and they | 1:56:19 | 1:56:23 | |
left their families behind and they
were under his spell so to speak. | 1:56:23 | 1:56:28 | |
Thank you very much. | 1:56:28 | 1:56:38 | |
The Queen and the Duke of Edinburgh
celebrate their 70th wedding | 1:56:41 | 1:56:49 | |
anniversary. Alun and Delphine
explained what it takes to have a | 1:56:49 | 1:56:55 | |
good and happy marriage. She gives
and I take and we manage fine! | 1:56:55 | 1:57:02 | |
LAUGHTER
That's the sum of it. Delphine, how | 1:57:02 | 1:57:06 | |
would you describe what it is like
being married for 70 years? | 1:57:06 | 1:57:13 | |
I don't know. It's, we've just got
on so well. We don't know the time | 1:57:13 | 1:57:24 | |
passes even. We're good friends. We
have laughs together. And it's just | 1:57:24 | 1:57:33 | |
normal to us that we should be
together. Do you still love each | 1:57:33 | 1:57:38 | |
other?
Sorry? | 1:57:38 | 1:57:44 | |
How much do you still love each
other? Oh, very much. Yes. Very | 1:57:44 | 1:57:51 | |
much, yes.
Alun? | 1:57:51 | 1:57:56 | |
Yes? How much do you love Delphine?
Very. Of course, I do. More than I | 1:57:56 | 1:58:04 | |
ever did. Alun and Delphine Richards
who celebrated their platinum | 1:58:04 | 1:58:13 | |
wedding anniversary this year. | 1:58:13 | 1:58:15 | |
On the programme tomorrow -
three remarkable survivors | 1:58:15 | 1:58:27 | |
of genocide from different
attrocities - join forces | 1:58:27 | 1:58:27 | |
to stand up to extremism. | 1:58:27 | 1:58:27 | |
You can't tell anybody today
what it was like. | 1:58:32 | 1:58:36 |