30/11/2017 Victoria Derbyshire

Hello it's Thursday,

30th November, it's 9 o'clock,

I'm Victoria Derbyshire,

welcome to the programme.

After she told him she was wrong for

re-tweeting, Donald Trump's hit back

at Theresa May telling the PM to

focus on terrorism, not him. Plenty

of politicians have criticised the

President. Here is what his

spokeswoman had to say.

The threat

is real, the threat needs to be

addressed, the threat has to be

talked about. That is what the

President is doing, in bringing that

up.

Tell us what you think about

this diplomatic row.

Also this morning, we have a special

report how thousands of people

are being threatened with prison

every year for not

paying their council tax.

One mother tells us how she how

she ended up behind bars.

It was absolutely horrific. I was

worrying about the kids and nobody

can prepare you for it. Nobody

could. It doesn't matter how many

books you might read, it's not what

you expect.

We'll have the full

report this hour.

Plus, in the next hour.

I don't even

know what to say, man.

We'll speak

to stars at the MOBO music awards

about a decision by police in London

to scrap a controversial risk

assessment form for grime artists

known as form 696.

Now I feel like

everyone has the Hans to make their

money and live their life.

Donald Trump has told Theresa May

she should pay more attention to

tackling terrorism in the UK rather

than messaging him. It was delivered

in a tweet after Downing Street

criticised the American President

for sharing videos. There are calls

for Donald Trump's trip to the UK to

be cancelled. Laura Bicker reports.

Any moment now.

They may have held

hands once but this so-called

special relationship is now being

tested by a series of presidential

tweets. First, from the account of

the far right anti-Muslim group

called Britain First, Donald Trump

retweeted three inflammatory videos

to his 43 million followers. The

first claimed incorrectly to show a

Muslim migrant attacking a man on

crutches. When challenged, the White

House said the videos might not be

real but the threat was.

I think Europe has seen that a lot

first-hand and something

the President wants to continue

to talk about and continue to make

sure that we're dealing with.

Theresa May is on a tour

of the Middle East but her official

spokesman said the President had

been wrong to share the posts.

It was that condemnation

which prompted a Twitter outburst

from Donald Trump's account.

He told Theresa May not

to focus on him but to focus

on the destructive radical

Islamic terrorism taking

place within the United Kingdom.

"We are doing just fine," he said.

The President has caused diplomatic

headaches for the UK several times

already this year.

From backing Nigel Farage

as an ambassador to Washington,

to attacking the London

Mayor Sadiq Khan,

all from his favourite

social media platform.

It may be a show of strength

for his supporters but it may also

weaken his position abroad.

Laura Bicker, BBC News, Washington.

Norman is at Westminster. What have

the British Government said about

the tweet?

There's been a stunned

silence from Number Ten because they

went to bed and all seemed well with

the world or not any more chaotic

than usual. They wake up to find Mrs

May being directly attacked and

criticised by the President. Now, I

think that is unprecedented in the

sense yes we are used to Donald

Trump laying waste to all and

sundry, including other foreign

leaders but never to an allie,

particularly give than we, you know

hope, think, believe we have good

relations with the United States. So

there's been no response at all from

Downing Street and probably won't be

until Mrs May has a question and

answer session in Jordan where she's

going to be speaking later this

afternoon. But there is now massive

pressure on her over the state visit

which yesterday Downing Street were

saying was still happening, America

is an allie, still going ahead. But

the level of anger and criticism

that Donald Trump's tweets have

provoked, I mean it stretches across

the political divide right up into

the Cabinet, particularly struck, I

was, by Sajid Javid's tweet you sent

off last night. You get the sense he

is personally incensed. He said so

he's endorsed the views of a vile

hate-filled racist organisation that

hates me and people like me. He is

wrong and I refuse to let it go and

say nothing. You get a real sense of

his personal anger. Slightly less

angry was the Cabinet Minister David

Gauke this morning but he's normally

fairly mild mannered. Even he was

criticising the President.

In normal

circumstances, this doesn't normally

happen, this sort of thing. The

President did what he did yesterday,

in terms of tweeting, re-tweeting

Britain First, I think the Prime

Minister had no choice but to point

out that that was wrong. She was

correct to do so. Of course, we want

to have a good relationship with the

United States. They are our closest

security allie, one of our most

important economic partners and we

want to have that close relationship

and need to engage with the United

States, including the President of

the United States. But when he's got

something as badly wrong as he has,

we are right to call him out on it.

Mr Gauke went tonne say he thought

it might be "educational" for the

Prime Minister to come to Britain as

part of that state visit. Quite

apart from the controversy over the

state visit, this matters because

there is a question mark now about

relations between Mrs May and Donald

Trump. Remember, this was sort of a

key part of Mrs May's sort of

diplomatic offensive when she became

Prime Minister, there was that

famous handy-handy moment in the

White House. Now you wonder, given

the President clearly is a man who

does not take lightly to criticism

and seems to bear grudges, whether

that relationship's been seriously

damaged and the potential

implications then for the

post-Brexit world we are about to

enter and in particular our

prospects of getting a trade deal.

One rast thing - lighter note - the

President initially tweeted the

wrong Theresa May, he tweeted a lady

called Theresa Scrimminer who has

only six followers. I looked a

moment ago, she still only has six

followers. Maybe it will go up

during the day.

It was a question that lots of

people asked yesterday, should the

state visit invitation that's been

extended to Mr Trump be rescinded?

We'll ask it again today. Perhaps

it's even more relevant when you

hear what the Communities Secretary

has said about the President of the

United States. Your own views very

welcome. We are obviously going to

talk a lot more about this in the

programme to come in the next half

hour. The rest of the morning's news

now.

The US has called on China to stop

providing crude loyal to North Korea

in response to its latest test of a

ballistic missile. At an emergency

meeting of the UN Security Council

in New York, Washington's ambassador

to the UN, Nicky Hayley, also urged

other nations to cut their trade and

diplomatic ties with Pyongyang.

BBC News understands that a

24-year-old British man who went to

Syria to fight against so-called

Islamic state, has been killed.

Oliver Hall from the Portsmouth area

is the seventh British volunteer to

have died in the country having

joined a Kurdish militia. Plans to

get an extra one million disabled

people into work will be published

by the government today. Disabled

people remain significantly less

likely to be in employment than

those without disabilities, as our

correspondent Nicky Fox reports.

Probably a yellow banana.

Trying out

new technology.

Left edge, 5 feet away.

A child consultant, Hannah

is testing face-recognition gadgets

which could help her at work.

She lost her sight five years ago

and is now registered blind.

During that time, she found

it hard to get a job.

I left uni with a first-class degree

in law and I've been turned down

from kind of basic admin roles

when I had quite significant

experience and that sort of thing.

Some of them, I might not

have got the job anyway.

Some of them, it was quite clear

from the questions they are asking,

it was because of my disability.

The employment gap between disabled

and non-disabled people hasn't

significantly changed for some years

despite a pledge back

in 2015 to halve it.

Today, the government has published

a plan that aims to see 1 million

more disabled people in work

over the next 10 years.

We are making progress.

We've got 600,000 more disabled

people in work than we did

four years ago.

What we want to do is continue

to work with employers,

to continue to exploit

the opportunities of new technology

and to keep testing and learning

to find out what works,

what are the things that actually

can make a difference

so that more disabled people can

fulfil their potential

and get a good job.

Today's announcement also includes

measures to provide access

to personalised

support for those with

mental health issues and an increase

in the variety of health care

professionals who are able to issue

fitness-to-work notices

but with employment

rates for people with

learning disabilities at around 6%,

charities are warning

the progress is too slow.

Nikki Fox, BBC News.

Investigations are under way after

the death of a war crimes defendant.

He said he rejected the verdict and

drank what he said was poison. The

72-year-old died in hospital and the

UN announced the courtroom was now a

crime scene. Two clinical trials

have shown a new approach to

preventing migraine can reduce the

number of attacks and their

severity, both trials used

antibodies that shield the nervous

system from headaches. Here is more

from James Gallagher.

Imogen Smiths started having

migraines two years ago

when she was 16.

Imogen was having attacks every week

and they forced her to take

a year out of college.

It was really scary so for me,

when they were happening,

I had no clue what they were 'cause

I thought a migraine was just

a headache so we had to keep looking

into more serious things.

One in seven people in the UK live

with the agony of migraine.

Scientists have now developed

new treatments that target

a chemical in the nervous to prevent

a migraine developing.

Two trials have now published.

One gave 955 patients a monthly

injection of antibodies.

Before the trial, they were having

migraines eight days every

month on average.

Around 50% of patients

were able to cut their number

of migraines in half.

Four drug companies are developing

similar treatments and scientists

say a new therapy could give

patients their life back.

These treatments are the first

migraine-specific preventives ever

for the most substantial

neurological cause

of disability on the planet.

That is a huge advance

for all of us.

Imogen's migraines are under control

and she's now studying to be a nurse

but currently available drugs

do not work for everyone

and can cause side-effects.

New options for people

living with migraine

are desperately needed.

James Gallagher, BBC News.

Serial producer -- cereal producer

Kelloggs is going to reduce its

sugar content. It wants to make

cereals more healthy. It employs

1700 people in the UK and owns

Europe's largest factory in the UK

in Trafford Park in Manchester.

Google is facing a mass legal action

by a UK campaign group which alleges

the tech giant unlawfully collected

information from apple's iPhone

handsets. The group led by a former

director of Which? Aims to claim at

least a billion pounds in

compensation for an estimated 5.4

million iPhone users. Google says

the case has no case. According to

research, baldy men might be more

likely to have a heart disease

before the age of 40. Researchers

said it was a bigger risk factor

than obesity which raises the risk

of heart disease four times. A

watchdog has found that police

helicopters take so long to reach

crime scenes that more than 40% of

its dents are over before they

arrive. In its first independent

study of police Air Support, Her

Majesty's Inspectorate of

Constabulary said helicopters and

bases were providing substandard

responses to ongoing incidents.

Inspectors have called for the

service in England and Wales to be

urgently reformed or replaced. The

grime artist Stormzy has won three

awards at the MOBOs, named best male

act and best grime artist and also

won best album. He said he would

love to perform at the Royal

Wedding, saying he wouldn't mind

providing a little acoustic for

young Harry if he got an invite!

We'll watch that space. Back to you.

We all want an invite. Another

question I would like to ask you

today, are you someone with a

disability who has found it very

hard to find paid work? The

government says it is coming up with

a plan today to try to get a further

1 million more people with

disabilities into work in the next

ten years. Your own experiences are

relevant to this conversation. We

will talk about it before ten. Watch

of the government priorities be?

What should they do to help somebody

like you with a disability to get

paid employment? Do let me know.

If your text in you will be charged.

Let's bring you some sport. Hugh is

here. A great night for Everton

supporters, the best in a long time?

Yes, they haven't struggling so far

this season. They move up four

places to 13th in the Premier

League. They were inspired by Wayne

Rooney, Captain on the night. He

scored a first hat-trick in more

than six years in their 4-0 win over

West Ham. They've heard a beauty

from almost 60 yards out. Great

technique. -- the third was a

beauty. Former England boss Sam

Allardyce was there. He is expected

to be announced as their new boss

later. It also gave interim manager

David Unsworth a positive end to his

time in charge.

A great hat-trick

and a great display from Wayne. He

was captain as well, captain for a

reason, going into a tough

environment after a tough spell. I

asked them to be men denied. We

spoke about how the bad run had to

come to an end. Being a real man

means standing up in times of

trouble.

Things looking rosier at

Everton. Special mention to Burnley.

They have moved into the top six

with their win last night as well.

Elsewhere, jubilant scenes from

Manchester City?

Yes, the leader is

still needed a 96th minute winner

from Raheem Sterling to beat

Southampton. They re-established an

8-point lead at the top of the

table. That goal sparked wild

celebrations. His 13th of the

season. 12 straight wins in the

league. Pep Guardiola pudding his

good form down to his increased

confidence. In the midst of all that

Benjamin Mendy, the City defender,

ran down the touchline to celebrate

despite being out for six months

with a ruptured knee ligament.

Afterwords Guardiola called him a

disaster, especially when he tried

to get a selfie with sterling. Happy

scenes for them, Arsenal, Liverpool

and Chelsea, all winners.

Ben Stokes

is down under. There has been a

return to action?

Yes, yesterday he

landed in New Zealand. A little

break to see his family. He was

greeted by his parents in

Christchurch. He had a cricket kit

with him. He has signed to play for

Canterbury as their overseas player.

It means we will see him in action

down under. Just not in the Ashes

series. It seems a decision as to

whether to charge him will come in a

number of weeks. He is unlikely to

figure in that Ashes series. We will

miss his fiery style of play. There

are plenty to take care of that.

Australian batsman Peter Hanscomb

warning there may be some brutal

words exchanged in the middle. He is

happy to psychologically tired of

the image.

That doesn't worry Jimmy

Anderson. It is something I have

always enjoyed. Excuse me. I think

it is... When someone is trying to

get under my skin, not just in

cricket but all walks of life, it

makes me more determined to succeed.

That is something from a personal

point of view that excites me and

will drive me on to try and do the

best I can with bat and ball.

England will need to be strong. The

second test begins in the early

hours of Saturday morning.

Thank you. Good morning. Welcome to

our programme. Thursday morning.

President Trump has hit back at

Theresa May pursing it was wrong for

him to Guidetti -- re-tweeted videos

posted by right-wing group Britain

first. Initially addressing a tweet

at someone called Theresa May rather

than the Prime Minister's official

account, he wrote...

He then realised his mistake and

sent it to the PM's correct Twitter

handle. The US president earlier had

come under fire for re-tweeting

three anti-Muslim videos posted

online by Jayda Fransen, the deputy

leader of Britain first. She is

currently on bail facing charges of

causing religiously aggravated

harassment. It relates to a separate

incident. One of the videos that

Donald Trump re-tweeted is called

Muslim I grinned beads up Dutch boy

on crutches. According to the

authorities in the Netherlands,

there was no racially aggravated

element to the incident and the

perpetrator was a Dutch national

born and raised in the Netherlands.

Who are Britain first? We first

investigative them a couple of years

ago on this programme. There are

extreme, right-wing and ultra

nationalists. They were formed in

2011 by former members of the BNP.

From the outset the organisation's

aim has been to make a lot of noise

on Facebook and elsewhere on social

media. On Facebook they have nearly

2 million lights, head of the Labour

Party, 1 million, the Conservatives,

around 650,000. The UK's most

successful political party on

Facebook has been a wash-out when it

comes to electoral success. The

deputy stood in a by-election a few

years ago and lost her deposit,

winning just 56 votes. And the

leader, Paul Golding, stood for a

London mayor last year. And in the

first round he won 1.2% of the vote.

I have been talking to Joe Walsh. He

is an American conservative

talk-show host. He is also a former

Republican congressman. He is a

Donald Trump supporter. He told me

what he makes of this diplomatic row

between Mr Trump and Mrs May.

I

don't think it is a big row. Look,

this is President Trump, I'm going

to say this not to you but to the

world for the 19th time, he is not a

typical American president. These

are not American times. He is going

to do things and say things that

typical Presidents don't. We have to

get used to it. The rest of the

world does as well.

But he is a man

who says he battles against what he

calls fake news. By re-tweeting

these videos he is now spreading

fake news.

Look, to correct you, he

technically re-tweeted three videos.

Two of the videos are actual news.

He made a mistake.

Exactly. So he is

guilty of spreading fake news,

which, as you will know, various

political leaders in this country

say is dangerous to our country.

Two

of the videos were not fake. The

underlying truth is this. Islamism

is a big problem. We are concerned

about it. President Trump is

concerned about it. All of Europe

ought to be concerned as well.

You

don't think the British government

is absolutely concerned about

Islamist terrorism?

I don't. And the

lot of us in the states don't. A lot

of us don't understand the UK and

the rest of Europe has allowed

radical Islam, or Islam is, to take

over your entire continent.

Are you

joking me?! That is the most

grotesque exaggeration.

Not joking.

You have entire neighbourhoods in

the UK and Europe for emergency

police cannot even go because they

are called no-go zones.

That is

completely inaccurate. Completely

wrong. Made a up, inaccurate, fake

and potentially dangerous.

Victoria,

I love you and it is good to talk to

you, but we don't give the truth on

Islamism in Europe. We are afraid

the same thing is going to happen in

the United States. This is a big

part of why President Trump got

elected.

The counterterrorism budget has gone

by 30%. That is British

counterterrorist officers are

involved in 500 investigations

involving 3000 individuals,

monitoring a wider pool of 20,000

people.

They are on it. Well, I

don't think they are on it.

Do you

think Donald Trump should still be

welcome in Britain when he comes for

the state visit?

Gosh, yeah. That is

your call. But certainly he should.

We are still very good friends, we

are strong allies. Look, this is a

problem. We had a president before

President Trump who purposely

refused to acknowledge the problem.

This is a big reason why President

Trump got elected.

Peter McCarthy on Twitter says, I'm

concerned a president can disrespect

a fellow world leader and so-called

close ally. So much for the special

relationship. Let's talk to said Joe

Curry, who is Muslim. How bad is

this in diplomatic terms?

Good

morning. This is actually extremely

serious. We have a situation on a

whole multiple of different levels

of not only interference in our

domestic political agenda, but also

along with that, a real diplomatic

crisis brewing as well. I suspect,

knowing Donald Trump's style which

has developed since he came into

office, this is the way in which he

feels he can best attract attention

to himself. That is his agenda. The

problem for us is the ramifications

of that, particularly in terms of

community cohesion and the basic

fabric of our society in the United

Kingdom and indeed throughout

Europe. It is extremely serious.

You

think as president he can upset

community cohesion in Britain?

Absolutely. What he is doing here,

he is taking a very small French

extremist movement, and promoting

them into a space, a political

space, that they simply do not

occupy otherwise. The real dangers

are, and based upon the interview

just aired, you don't have a

reinforcement of what is in effect

fake news, and a repetition of that.

That is taking place multiple times,

creating a completely non-fact

-based story, which then becomes

factual lies in the minds of many,

simply because it has been repeated

multiple times. We have to take this

extremely seriously. That is why

this morning I have called on our PM

macro Theresa May not to ignore what

Donald Trump as said, but to monitor

what he is saying and to make sure

that he and those who support him in

the United Kingdom, there are

political actors in the UK who

support the stance he has taken,

that we monitor them very closely as

well. Otherwise they will talk away

at the very fabric of our society.

They will sow division weather isn't

division. The consequences of that

will be very great indeed.

Monitor

closely, with respect, sounds rather

lame. What about asking the British

Prime Minister to withdraw his state

visit invitation?

I certainly have

done that. The basis is this. A

British citizen would not be given

entry clearance into the United

State of America if that British

citizen has done anything which, in

any Way, undermines the fabric of

USA society or security. That is

exactly what the president of the

United States has done. If those

conditions are sufficient to prevent

a British citizen from carrying out

an ordinary visit to the USA, how

can it be that a sitting president

making such comments after assuming

office, can be afforded an official

state visit in these circumstances?

I understand that. My follow up

question is, should Donald Trump be

banned from Britain?

Two very

different things. I do not think it

is appropriate to go ahead with a

state visit. And secondly, moving on

from that, he is a world leader. We

have to have relations with the USA

through him. And incidentally, I do

not believe that the vast majority

of American people will, in any way,

want to be associated with what

Donald Trump, their president, is

trying to do.

Rescind the state

visit invitation, but a visit

without the formality of a state

visit, is that all right?

We have to

maintain diplomatic relations and we

have to try to repair the situation

we are in.

He is still welcome to

Britain in your view?

If this sort

of activity is to continue by him,

and then we see the effects it

starts to happen in a very negative

way in terms of undermining the very

fabric of our British society, then

we must once again of course

revisit, on what basis are we going

to have those diplomatic relations

through him? We have other channels

as well.

You will have heard the

very powerful words of the

communities secretary, Sajid Javid,

saying effectively that the

president of United States endorsed

the use of -- file, hate filled the

use of organisations that hate me

and people like me. If you had the

opportunity of talking to Donald

Trump about the re-tweeting of these

videos, what would you say?

I don't

think it befits the office of

president of the United States of

America to be associated -- to be

associating himself with somebody

who has actually been convicted of

religious hatred, harassment

offences, and is currently facing

charges of a very similar nature as

well. It just does not become the

office of president of the United

States of America.

Do you think he

hates someone like you?

Do you think Donald Trump hates

someone like you?

One has to go

about the effects that come about

when someone in his position put out

tweets of this nature. I don't think

he will have any personal hatred

towards me, I very much doubt he

even knows I exist, certainly there

has been no meeting at this point

anyway, but in term to haves wider

effects based on the office that he

calls, he ought to have that at the

forefront of his mind. There are

real consequences attached to this

for other countries, including ours.

Thank you very much. Get in touch

with us if you have any views. Mr

Karim saying the state visit

invitation should be rescinded but

he's going to have to come at some

point. Let me know your views. Still

to come. How thousands are being

threatened with prison for not

paying council tax. A mum tells us

how she ended up behind bars. At the

stars of the MOBO awards - plans to

change a controversial approach to

policing certain music events.

Donald Trump has said Theresa May

should pay more attention to

terrorism in the UK rather than on

him. Theresa May criticised Donald

Trump for sharing videos. There are

calls for Donald Trump's visit to be

cancelled to the UK.

The US has called on China to stop

providing crude loyal to North Korea

in response to its latest test

of a ballistic missile.

At an emergency meeting

of the UN Security Council

in New York, Washington's ambassador

to the UN, Nicky Hayley,

also urged other nations

to cut their trade and

diplomatic ties with Pyongyang.

BBC News understands

that a 24-year-old

British man who went

to

Syria to fight against so-called

Islamic state, has been killed.

Oliver Hall from the Portsmouth area

is the seventh British volunteer to

have died in the country having

joined a Kurdish militia.

Plans to get an extra

one million disabled

people into work will be published

by the government today.

Disabled people remain

significantly less

likely to be in employment than

those without disabilities, as our

correspondent Nicky Fox reports.

The Rhyls of trials in migraines

show antibodies can be used to

neutralise a chemical which is used

to trigger severe migraines.

That is a summary of the latest

news.

Thank you very much toer your

comments about the row between

Theresa May and Donald Trump. Abu

says, I'm a Muslim, I see nothing

wrong in Trump re-tweeting, he's

reminding the world about the

madmen. Theresa May shouldn't have

joined in this, as our relationship

post-Brexit is more important than a

mere tweet. Donald Trump doesn't

care, he'd prefer to play golf than

come here. Paul says it's difficult

to remain diplomatic when it comes

to this man. The best thing to do

would be to avoid him completely.

Donald Trump says it how it is, says

another viewer, he should come here

and give Theresa May some advice.

Hugh is back with the latest sport.

Wayne Rooney sent a reminder to the

Premier League last night of exactly

what he can do with a hat trick in

Everton's 4-0 win over West Ham

United. The former England boss, Sam

Allardyce, is expected to be named

as the club's new manager later

today. Leaders might have

re-established an eight-point lead

at the top of the Premier League

with a win over Southampton, it took

a 96th minute goal from Sterling to

do so. Burnley continue their good

form away from home with a 2-1 win

over Bournemouth, seeing Sean

Dyche's side move up to sixth in the

table. Away from football, England's

Ben Stokes will make his return to

cricket action but it won't be for

England just yet. He's signed for

New Zealand side Canterbury, a

decision on whether he'll be charged

by the CPS for ABH may take several

more weeks. That's all the sport for

now. More just after ten. Good

morning.

Thousands of people are being taken

to court and threatened with prison

over council tax arrears every year

this programme has learned.

We've seen data that shows it

happened to 4,800 people last year -

with 62 of those going to jail

for non-payment of council tax.

Council tax is one of the only debts

where not paying can lead to prison.

The figures are only

for England and Wales,

people don't get sent to jail

in Scotland and Northern Ireland.

Our reporter Jim Reed has been

investigating this for us and he's

been to speak to a woman

who was imprisoned for 50 days

because she owed more

than £5000 in council tax.

It's hard to avoid,

even harder to evade.

97% of us pay our

council tax on time.

Linked to the value of a house

or flat, it works out at around

£1,200 a year on average.

But what happens to people

who either can't pay or won't pay?

What's not well known is that,

unlike other debts,

it is still possible to go to prison

for not paying your council tax -

and that's something that

does happen more often

than you might think.

I just heard I was going to jail...

Yeah.

I just heard that,

and everything else was silent.

Nicola, a mother of two

with no criminal record,

fell behind with her payments

when she split up with her husband.

She ended up making six trips

to court before, in the end,

she was sentenced to 50

days in prison.

It didn't actually sink

in until they said "you're

going to jail" and that's

when it was shock, complete shock.

I couldn't believe I was

actually going to jail.

And what happened next?

They took me down to the cells,

downstairs, you're then taken

into a small cell and you have

to wait for a van to

come and collect you.

You are handcuffed

throughout all this time.

So you feel like a

criminal at that stage?

Yes.

Yeah.

By that point, Nicola's debt -

with court fines -

had risen to more than £5,000.

Council bailiffs had taken her car

and she had offered to pay back £30

a week but that was turned down.

They wanted £100 a week off me.

I couldn't pay it.

I went to tax advisors

and they done my disposable income,

£30 a week, which was offered

to them and they refused.

They refused the £30?

They refused it, yes.

I could barely afford that.

That was really pushing it.

So you had no choice

but to say "can't pay?"

Just couldn't pay.

Figures seen by this programme show

councils applied for a commitment

to prison more than 4,800

times last year.

That means the person who received

it had to go to court and then

was formally threatened with prison

if they didn't settle

their council tax bill.

The number has been rising,

even though the Government issued

new guidance calling on local

authorities to use courts

only as a last resort.

Even so, 62 people we know

about ended up in prison last year

because they couldn't

or they wouldn't pay.

The real number is likely to be

a fair bit higher than that.

Critics say this only happens

in England and Wales.

In Scotland and Northern Ireland,

councils are not allowed to use

the threat of prison in this way.

Prison is for people

who are dangerous or have

committed a serious crime,

not for people who are struggling

to keep up with payments.

Threatening to lock people up

doesn't solve the problem.

If people are imprisoned,

it's harder for them

to pay their debts -

not easier.

It's a terrifying experience,

lumping people who are behind

with their debts in with criminals.

To its critics, using prison to deal

with debt is a relic

of Victorian times.

At the notorious Marshalsea

and other jails like it,

you could be locked up

until you or your family

paid what was owed.

And this here is all that's left

of what was Marshalsea

prison in south London.

All of the debtors' jails,

debtors' prisons were closed down

more than a century ago as modern

bankruptcy laws were brought in.

Today, council tax is one

of the only types that can still end

in a jail sentence -

though if you don't pay court fines

for missing some other payments,

including the TV licence,

you can get a conviction

and prison time.

Because council tax is a civil

matter and not criminal, it meant

Nicola had to serve her full

sentence - 50 days -

with no early release

for good behaviour.

Her children, aged six and 19, went

to live with friends and relatives.

It goes very, very slow.

I just didn't know what to

expect, where I was,

it was absolutely horrific.

I was worrying about the kids.

Nobody can prepare you for it.

It doesn't matter how many

books you might read,

it's not what you expect.

It's a pretty horrific experience.

How do you feel you've changed

as a person since then?

I'm angry.

I'm angry...

I've got no trust in the system.

I feel very vulnerable.

If I can go to jail for something

like council tax, I can go

to jail for anything.

Nicola's council, Conwy

in North Wales, said action in this

case was taken in accordance

with all necessary rules.

Nicola was given ample opportunity

to pay what she owed and didn't

provide information when asked.

It said using the courts in this way

was a last result and anyone

in difficulty should contact

the council to try

to find a solution.

New figures appear to show wide

differences in approach

between local authorities.

Of the 279 councils that responded

to a request for information,

just 99 started proceedings

to imprison people and only

17 locked someone up.

The London borough of Havering,

on the Essex border, is one council

that does threaten prison.

Last year, the report shows

you started 96 committal proceedings

against people who hadn't paid

in this borough.

Two people ended up in jail.

Why did you feel the need

to take it so far?

Because it's the last resort.

As those figures...

Of the 96, 94 did eventually

come to an arrangement.

It was probably the threat of that

committal, prison sentence,

that actually made them pay.

What we're very keen

on is recognising the can't

pays from won't pays,

why should people not pay

their water bill or broadband bill?

Council tax is the same thing.

We're providing a service.

Slightly different, though,

if they don't pay their water bill

or broadband bill...

There's not the threat

of going to prison.

Why should council

tax be any different?

The principle is we're paying

to provide services to our schools,

our children's services,

adult services, and it's really

important that we have that

package in place so we can

serve our communities

to the best that we can.

If you didn't have this power,

to take people to prison or threaten

prison, what would be the result?

Well, it's taking away a deterrent

factor if that happens...

It could be a problem for you?

It could be a problem,

because perhaps there may be some

people who will simply not pay

and ignore everything.

As for Nicola, she says

after her release, she did come

to an agreement to pay the council

and thinks she has

now cleared her debt.

The council might say

they have a responsibility

to collect council tax,

and unless there's some sort

of punishment at the end of it,

they might not be able to do that?

It's not really fair

to send someone to jail

for something they can't pay!

You know...

If they've got plenty of money,

holding it back, saying...

"We're not paying because we don't

agree you pay it towards

the police or the bins that

I'll empty myself"...

If they can't pay it's

a different matter.

So no, I don't think

you should go to jail.

And in your mind you just

felt you couldn't pay?

I couldn't pay.

I couldn't pay.

This could all come to a head.

A test case soon could make it much

harder for councils to use

the threat of prison

to collect debts.

Local authorities worry,

if that happens, it could also

make it harder to fund

the services we need.

Linda on Facebook says what an

absolute disgrace, the councils and

courts should hang their heads in

shame, shame on them all. Norman

says ridiculous, so many of us can't

afford the increase in tax, they are

not won't pay, they are can't pay.

Violent criminals are treated

better. And Pat says how much did it

cost to put this woman in prison,

now she has a criminal record so

hubbing she woman back from this?

Something isn't right.

Let's talk now to Rona

Epstein, a law researcher

at Coventry University,

who's campaigned against people

being jailed over council tax

debt for many years.

She worked on the report

published by the Institute

of Money Advisors today.

Why do you think councils shouldn't

have this power, as a last resort,

they say, to take people to court

and ultimately to have them jailed

if they don't pay their council tax?

Well, I believe they can take them

to court. It's the imprisonment part

that's wrong. The councils have

powers to take people who haven't

paid their council tax, which I

fully agree with what we have heard,

has to be paid. We need it for

services that must be provided. That

is why magistrates have the power to

order dedictions from benefits or to

order deduction from any wages you

or I may receive if we haven't paid

our council tax bill. Councils need

and use the powers. Two thirds of

the councils in England and Wales do

not apply for commitment to prison.

They ask for these other measures of

enforcement and I believe they're

behaving properly and morally, as we

should in our society. It's one

third, just under one third who

unfortunately use the power to

threaten imprisonment and then in

some cases go through with it, as we

saw with Nicola who actually comes

into the public domain because she

contacted me knowing about my

research and asked if there was any

way she could be compensated for the

dreadful experiences since I'm

arguing it's mostly unlawful.

We have as many councils to talk to

us on the programme today. It wasn't

possible. We have a statement from

the Local Government Association.

They say before councils take legal

action, people will have been

encouraged to seek monetary support

and efforts will have been made to

attach the depth to a salary or

arrange new payment plans. They have

tried that. That has not worked.

Therefore, they say, they need this

final, last resort power. They have

a £5.8 billion shortfall by 2020

which is why they say it is

essential councils collect these

funds.

They do need to collect them,

we are agreed on that. It is not, I

believe, correct to say that it

doesn't work. If the magistrates

order an attachment to earnings, the

employer has to pay them. They have

no choice about it. The employer as

a legal duty to take the money out

of your wages or salary if this has

been ordered. If they don't have

wages or salary, it can be deducted

from benefit.

Therefore you say

there is no need to send anybody to

jail ever?

Absolutely. That is why

two thirds of councils do not do it.

If I can just say something about

what you have read out, one of your

correspondents said Nicola now has a

criminal record. She doesn't. Owing

council tax is a civil offence. It

is not a crime. That is why people

like myself, many people believe, it

is so wrong to put people in prison.

Prisons are therefore serious crime.

And they are not there for people

who, for whatever reason, illness,

mismanagement in Nicola's case, or

people following a divorce, for

whatever reason they have not paid

the council tax, they should pay,

that is simply wrong to put them in

prison. The other enforcement

methods, attachment to earnings or

benefits or savings, I believe

should be applied, because councils

need this money. Thank you very

much.

Nora Epstein. Breaking news.

The latest net migration figures. It

is from June 2016 to June 20 17. Net

migration has fallen by 100,000 in

the last year. This is the largest

annual decrease ever recorded. Net

migration to June 2017 stands at

230,000. Three quarters of the fall

is down to changes in EU migration

in the 12 months since the EU

referendum. 75,000 fewer people came

to Britain from elsewhere in Europe

between 2016 and 2017, immediately

after the Brexit referendum. The

Office for National Statistics says

the number of non-EU citizens

leaving has remained stable over the

past year. The number of people

leaving the UK who are EU citizens

has increased. Net migration has

fallen by 100,000 people to 230,000

in the year up to June 2017. We will

get reaction straight after the news

at ten o'clock.

Are you in line for

a pay-out from Google?

One campaigner says it's been taking

data unlawfully from iPhone users,

and he wants a billion pounds

in compensation.

We will talk to him before ten.

Earlier this month,

London's Metropolitan Police

announced it was scrapping

its controversial risk assessment

form known as Form 696.

It was controversial because some

in the music community said it

targeted certain genres

of music, like grime.

In March, this programme

highlighted the issue,

including how a version of the form

was being used by other

forces outside London.

Chi Chi Izundu was on the red

carpet of the MOBO

Awards to find out how

stars feel about it.

MUSIC: Man's Not Hot Hot - Big Shaq

# I tell her man's not hot

# I tell her man's not hot

# The girl told me

take off your jacket

# I said babes man's not hot, never

# I said babes man's not hot, never

# I tell her mans not hot, never hot

# I tell her mans not hot, never hot

# The girl told me

take off your jacket.#

Yo, it's your boy, Yxng Bane,

aka, the Heart Break Kid

And I'm here at the Mobos having

the time of my life.

And we're here at the Mobo Awards,

which is taking place in the

wonderful city of Leeds, the very

same city that a rapper told us

earlier this year he was stopped

from performing in.

I got taken off a festival

in Leeds that was meant

to happen.

Yeah, they basically said,

you know, you've got to take

off these grime acts.

We never actually get

to talk to the police.

They don't really respond

to the artist at all.

It's almost as if they don't

have to tell us why.

For me that's wrong

because at least, if

we know why, then we know how

to change it, or how to go about it.

London's Metropolitan Police

introduced their promotion event

risk assessment form 696 back

in 2005 after a spate of violent

attacks at events

across the capital.

But earlier this month the Met said

it was scrapping its

controversial form 696,

and it was controversial

because music industry people

thought that it was targeting

Music of Black Origin.

I feel like it gives

people a lot more

opportunities because

at the end of the day

you can't really base

a show

on someone's mistakes.

It's not fair, do

you know what I mean?

Now I feel like

everyone has an equal

chance to make their money

and live their life.

Everyone be getting blocked

from London, you get me?

Obviously we've got it

from up north but London

we feel it the most,

I feel like.

Now it's gone, it's only going to,

you get me, domino affect.

This programme also

found in a Freedom of

Information request,

that

a number of forces outside the

capital were using their own version

of the form.

What if I told you other forces

outside of London don't

plan to get rid of it?

I mean, I don't know why

they wouldn't follow

suit, like, if London's doing it.

You might as well, innit.

Like, I don't think it helps.

It doesn't help artists

and there's a lot of

artists that are being

stopped by that, you know?

And they've got great talents

that don't need to be

stopped because of,

what I feel, is a bit racist,

to be fair, so, yeah.

Our entertainment reporter,

Chi Chi Izundu, is here.

The Metropolitan Police is scrapping

this form. What about other forces?

Other forces like Northamptonshire

and the city of London police,

Bedfordshire, Leicestershire Police,

say they will keep their form. They

say is voluntary and they don't

force it upon anyone and it works

really well with their venues and

promoters. All the forces have said

safety is their priority. Even

though the Met are scrapping the

form, they say they have had some

constructive conversations with

people in the music industry and

they are hoping to meet in the New

Year to try and sort out a new

process to keep everyone save within

the industry.

Thank you.

Up to 5.4 million iPhone users

could be in line for a pay-out

of several hundred pounds,

if a legal claim against

Google is successful.

Richard Lloyd is taking action

against the internet giant

who he says collected information

on users' online browsing habits,

without them knowing.

It supposedly happened when people

used the Safari app between June

2011 and February 2012.

We can talk to Richard Lloyd now.

He is the former director of the

consumer group Which? So hopefully

he knows what he is talking about!

What do you accuse Google of doing?

This was 2011, 2012, Google were

saying to people around the world

they couldn't take your personal

data from your iPhone whether they

wanted to or not, at the very same

time they were doing exactly that.

They found a technical workaround

that meant if you... They could take

personal data. That is a breach of

the data protection act. They were

fined for this in the United States,

a record fine. They were doing it.

That is what the US regulator fined.

What has not happened in this

country is any consumer getting any

redress for that massive misuse of

their personal data which happened

without people's consent.

What sort

of data are you talking about and

how would anybody know if their data

had been taken by Google without

their consent?

You probably

wouldn't. What Google did was

secretly put cookies on everyone's

Safari. If he didn't change the

default security settings on your

phone they would have taken that

information about how you are using

Safari without

information about how you are using

Safari without your permission.

What

websites you are looking at, what

you are interested in, that kind of

thing?

Your interests, getting that

data from the kind of websites you

are visiting. Where you are, who you

are. What they do with that, and

this is what people often don't know

about a company like Google, is they

sell that personal data to

advertisers. They made $80 billion

doing exactly this just last year.

This is hugely profitable for them.

We are saying it was illegal the way

they did that to British consumers.

There is a sense that Google have

somehow been operating outside the

law, that they would be held to

account in this country. Well sorry,

they broke the law here, we are

saying. We want to see them in court

and give consumers back the money we

think they are old for this misuse

of their data.

Google say this is

not new, we have defended similar

cases before, we do not believe it

has any merit and we were contested.

It is a shame. A lot of people look

fondly at Google. But underneath

that is a business model but I think

people are starting to distrust.

They are fighting this case, afraid

to say, on technical grounds. They

are saying, OK, this case should be

held in California, not the UK.

Ridiculous, this is about British

consumers and British law. I would

like them to win back some trust

from consumers by saying, OK, we did

something wrong, we will put it

right. Their lawyers are very

expensive. They will try to drag

this out. I think we have a good

chance of winning this. In doing so,

setting a strong precedent for how

these tech giants should treat our

personal data in this country with

some better respect.

They are

contested. We just said that. But if

they are to do what you want them to

do, which is, OK, we did it, it

would be up to them to tell

individual iPhone users they did it

to them, that they mind their

personal information?

The court will

decide.

Is this criminal -- a

criminal court?

It is not. It is a

High Court. My job would be to make

sure that everyone, nearly 5.5

million, if we win my job would be

to get all of those people, as many

as possible, to get them the money

they are old as easily as possible.

There will be some time for people

to claim. In the end this is about

holding Google to account and

sending a strong message to silicon

valley that British consumers cannot

have their data breach in this way.

How are you funding this case?

Google's pockets are very deep. We

have gone to a firm who have given

us the money. They are a litigation

funding firm in London. This is the

way this kind of case has to be run

because I can't do it on my own.

What is in it for the company?

First, to support a really important

case with big ramifications for

public policy and will make these

firms be held to account. They get a

very small amount of whatever

damages we might win. If we lose,

they do not get anything. The point

is this is of such big public

importance, that we have been able

to raise money for this to go

through the courts for as long as it

takes.

Richard Lloyd, thank you.

News and sport on the way at ten

o'clock. Before

News and sport on the way at ten

o'clock. Before that, the weather.

Here is mapped. Thank you. Last day

of autumn today. It is already

beginning to feel like the depths of

winter. We have scenes like this in

the past hour in the hills in North

Yorkshire. And a bit of St Andrew's

day snow in parts of Scotland. Snow

flurries continue through today and

and across eastern England they will

come further inland. Maybe into the

East Midlands. Mainly rain and sleet

here. Rain and sleet across parts of

Wales, south-west England, Devon and

Cornwall, Northern Ireland. Those

showers becoming confined to the far

western fringes later. Most of you,

away from the showers, it is a dry,

sunny and cold day. Especially in

the winter. Below freezing. The wind

blowing in showers across eastern

part of the country. Tonight, the

showers keep coming across eastern

parts of England. That could leave a

dusting of snow in places. Icy

conditions into tomorrow morning.

Further west, the showers fade away.

Temperatures drop the furthest. In

rural Scotland we could get as low

as minus ten.

Hello it's Thursday 30th

November, it's 10 o'clock,

I'm Victoria Derbyshire.

Net migration into the UK sees it

biggest fall on record ,

down by 100,000, in the year

after the Brexit referendum

Around 75,000 fewer EU citizens

chose not to come to Britain.

Reaction to that in the next half

hour.

After she told him he was wrong

for retweeting a UK far right group,

Donald Trump has now hit back

at Theresa May, telling the PM

to focus on terrorism, not him.

Politicians here say his comments

are dangerous and his planned state

visit to the UK should be cancelled.

A British citizen would not be given

entry clearance into

the United States of America if that

British citizen has done anything

which in any way undermines the

fabric of USA society or security,

and that is exactly

what the President of

the United States has done.

The government says it wants to get

an extra million disabled people

in to work within ten years.

But ministers also say there needs

to be a "culture change"

so employers and employees

can work together.

Despite having done a masters,

28-year-old Bethany

who has cerebral palsy,

has never been able to find work.

It really is worth giving somebody a

chance and it's worth giving me a

chance and looking past what people

might see as physical barriers and

try and focus on how we can create

social change together.

If you have had a disability and

found it difficult to get paid work,

let us know. We'll have that

conversation coming up.

Good morning it's 10 o'clock,

here's Annita in the BBC Newsroom

with a summary of today's news.

Net long-term migration to the UK

was 230,000 in the year

to the end of June 2017,

a fall of more than 100,000

on the previous year,

official estimates show.

It's the biggest fall on record.

Three quarters of the fall is down

to changes in EU migration in the 12

months since the Brexit referendum.

President Trump has told Theresa May

that she should pay more attention

to tackling terrorism in the UK,

rather than criticising him.

The message was delivered in a tweet

last night after Downing Street

criticised the US President

for sharing anti-Muslim videos

posted by a British far-right

group on social media.

The row has placed more pressure

on the Prime Minister to cancel

Mr Trump's state visit

to the UK next year.

BBC News understands that

a 24-year-old British man who went

to Syria to fight the Islamic State

group has been killed.

Oliver Hall from the Portsmouth area

is the seventh British volunteer

to have died in the country having

joined a Kurdish militia.

The United States has called

on China to stop supplying crude

oil to North Korea in

response to its latest test

of a ballistic missile.

At an emergency meeting of the UN

Security Council in New York,

Washington's Ambassador to the UN,

Nikki Haley, also urged other

countries to cut their trade

and diplomatic ties with Pyongyang.

The government is setting out plans

to get a million more disabled

people into work over

the next 10 years.

Less than half of the UK's disabled

population is currently in work

and last year only 8% of businesses

employed a person with a disability.

Charities say progress

from previous, similar

schemes has been too slow.

Scientists say they have made

an "incredibly important" advance

in the prevention of migraine.

The results of two clinical trials

published in the New England

Journal of Medicine showed that

injections of antibodies

can be used to neutralise

a chemical which is believed

to trigger severe headaches.

Around half of patients reported

a 50 % reduction in the number

of attacks they had each month.

That's a summary of the latest BBC

News - more at 10.30.

The Mayor of London's released a

statement about the re-tweeting that

Donald Trump did of those far right

videos. Sadiq Khan says many Brits

who love America and Americans will

see this as a betrayal of the

special relationship between our two

countries, as Mayor of this great

diverse city I've previously called

on Theresa May to cancel her

ill-judged offer of a state visit to

Donald Trump, after this latest

incident it's clear any official

visit at all from President Trump to

Britain would not be welcomed. More

on that in the next half hour. Let's

get more on the migration figures.

Our correspondent is here. This is a

heck of a drop?

Yes, it's a bit of a

stat so I'll go through it slowly.

In the year up to the June

referendum in 2016, net migration

was very high, 340,000 more people

were coming to live in the UK in any

given year than the numbers who were

leaving. It wasn't quite the peak,

that was a year or so before then

but it was incredibly high. In the

year since the referendum, net

migration's fallen by 106,000, the

greatest drop the Office for

National Statistics has ever

recorded. Net migration stands at

230,000 a year, a dramatic fall.

Assuming the Government wants to

stick to its targets of getting net

migration below 100,000, it's

getting closer to that. Now, high is

this happening? It looks like it's

some kind of Brexit effect. We can't

say for sure, we are only a year in,

but the key drivers in this have

been changes in EU migration. In the

year since, we have seen EU

migration go down dramatically,

80,000 fewer EU nationals are

turning up, looking for a place in

the UK. Critically, within that, I

think this is really interesting -

far fewer EU nationals are turning

up looking for work - that is a

category in the immigration

statistics, so the classic

stereotype would be a Polish plumber

who wants to earn more money in the

UK, he's got mates already here and

thinks, I'll make a go of it. A lot

of those arrivals are drying up.

Other EU workers are still arriving

but only if they have a ditch nit

job, we have seen a big change

there. Another big change, the

number of EU nationals who're

emigrating, giving up on the UK is

up by 30%. That is quite a change.

They've decided to up sticks. I'm

wondering whether it was a

combination of facts that is going

on here. Anecdotally you pick up the

fear, around the Brexit effects and

that may be reflected in the fact

that more EU nationals apply for

British nationality, that has risen

80%. The economic effects of this is

another thing. It's a question now

that some workers are sitting there

thinking, is it worth coming to the

UK because of Brexit but also

because of the economic factors

because so few are coming. One

interesting figure in this which

isn't picked up in the ONS sticks,

before the referendum, £1 bought a

Polish worker back home 6 Z loty so

that was a Boon to their family,

they were sending a lot of money

home. That's fallen by a quarter

since the referendum. So for many

workers, it may not be worth sending

money home and therefore not turning

up in the first place and that may

account for the falls of eastern and

central European workers and the

western European workers we are

seeing going as well.

Thank you very

much. 230,000 is what net migration

is from 2016-2017. Still a long way

to two if the Government wants to

stick to its target of bringing it

down to the tens of thousands. Now

here is the sport with Huw.

Everton impressed their new manager

Sam Allardyce but the night belonged

to one man Wayne Rooney

scoring his first Everton hat trick,

and what a way to get it,

as the ball fell to him

in his own half, he fired it first

time over the head of Joe Hart

in the West ham goal.

He says, it's one of the best

goals he's ever scored

and it's hard to disagree,

when you're popping them

in from the halfway line.

And it gave departing interim

manager David Unsworth a big win .

Great hat trick, great display from

Wayne. He was captain as well,

captain for a reason going into a

tough environment after a tough

spell. I asked them to be men

tonight and we spoke about the bad

run has to come to an end, it

doesn't last for ever and being a

real man does, if you can stand up

there and fight in times of trouble.

From a great goal to

pretty important one,

Raheem Sterling's 96th-minute winner

against Southampton extending

manchester City's winning run to 12

consecutive matches..

It was 1-1 going into stoppage time,

and he curled this effort

into the top corner.

It sparked wild celebration

at the Etihad Stadium..

Burnley made it 4 wins

from 7 away from home

in the Premier League this season.

Even more remarkable given they only

won once away in all of last season.

A 2-1 win at Bournemouth means

Sean Dyche's side move above Spurs,

up to sixth in the table.

After touching down in new Zealand,

Ben Stokes has signed to play

domestic cricket for Canterbury,

but is unlikely

to play in the Ashes.

He's still to hear if he'll be

charged following an incident

outside a Bristol nightclub.

The police have handed their file

to the Crown Prosecution service.

He could be here through to the T20.

Any time you get to rub shoulders

with a player of that calibre, it's

an excitement for the players, and I

think that's great for us.

That's

all the sport for now. More later

on. There is movement on the

question surrounding the state visit

invitation that Theresa May issued

to Donald Trump quite a long time

ago now so let's speak to Norman

Smith. We are expecting something in

the Commons?

We are going to get

what is called an urgent question

which means a Government minister

has to come to the Commons and reply

to MPs about the Donald Trump tweet.

So it's going to be a full-blown

Commons debate about the issue and,

all the time you sense pressure is

building on Downing Street to

rethink this offer of a state visit