05/12/2017 Victoria Derbyshire


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05/12/2017

Stories including the Brexit battle following the DUP backlash, the first ever plan to tackle global waste and the child safety campaign using live streaming apps.


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LineFromTo

Hello, it's Tuesday,

it's nine o'clock.

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I'm Victoria Derbyshire,

welcome to the programme.

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Out top story today: After one

of Britain's smaller political

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parties vetoed the PM's Brexit deal,

what might persuade them to back

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a new agreement on the Irish border?

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A question Theresa May needs to find

an answer to...fast.

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'S government insiders blame a

misunderstanding, the DUP prepare to

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play hardball.

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We'll talk to the Democratic

Unionist Party, to a Conversative

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Leave MP, and to Scotland's SNP.

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Whether you voted Leave or Remain,

what do you think of events

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over the last 24 hours?

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Also on the programme,

a warning that sex offenders

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are using live online streaming

platforms to groom children

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with almost 200 suspects

arrested in one week alone.

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It offers offenders an immediate

connection to children and young

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people, that is one-to-one,

it allows them to manipulate

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children and young people,

offer them excitement,

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sympathy, some connection,

emotional connection, involve them

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with games and trickery.

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We'll talk to parents whose

children have been groomed

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via live streaming sites.

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If it's happened to someone

in your family, do get in touch.

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Have you done anything to monitor

or restrict your children's

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use of streaming apps?

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And it's been described

as a "plague of plastic"

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destroying life in our oceans.

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What needs to be done to tackle it?

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The UN is discussing the issue today

- we'll talk to them live.

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Hello.

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Welcome to the programme,

we're live until 11.

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We will bring you the latest

breaking news and developing

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stories.

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A little later we'll hear

from Kezia Dugdale, who's

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been evicted from the I'm

A Celebrity jungle after lasting

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just 11 days.

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She said she wanted to show

that politics wasn't

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all white, male and stale.

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Has she achieved her mission?

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Keen to hear what you thought

of her performance -

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use the hashtag Victoria live.

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Our top story today.

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Theresa May will meet her cabinet

this morning after returning

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from Brussels last night with no

deal to push forward

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the Brexit talks.

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Negotiations came to a halt

after the Democratic Unionist Party,

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who support the Conservative

government, rejected a proposal

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to avoid which would have

avoided a hard border

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between Northern Ireland

and the Republic.

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Norman

Smith is in Westminster

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for us this morning.

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So what kind of wording will satisfy

the DUP?

It is a good question and I

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think it will need more than clever

wording to satisfy the DUP because

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they are mightily unhappy at the

fact they feel they were almost

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bounced into accepting something

which they regard as a complete

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non-runner. This idea of regulatory

alignment with Ireland. Basically

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there should be the same sort of

trade and customs rules between

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north and south. From their point of

view, they say we made it clear to

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Mrs May we were never going to

accept that because that would have

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meant different arrangements for

Northern Ireland from the rest of

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the UK. To constitutional level,

that could have threatened Northern

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Ireland's position in the UK but

more importantly they say our

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biggest market is with the rest of

the UK, not Ireland. The part where

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we want no border is with the rest

of the UK, not Ireland, that's what

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we are concerned about. They are

simply not going to accept so-called

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regulatory equivalents and it

doesn't matter how you dress it up,

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what formulation of words you come

up with, there is principle for them

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here. I think that means this will

get very difficult. You remember

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when Mrs May did her deal with the

DUP to support her government, how

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difficult and protracted and tents

and how long it took, well I think

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that's going to be all over again

exactly the same, but the clock is

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ticking because we know we have got

until next Thursday when the EU

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Council meets to reach some sort of

agreement.

Thank you, Norman, for

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the moment.

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Ben is in the BBC Newsroom

with a summary of the rest

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of the day's news.

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Thank you, Victoria.

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Parents are being warned

about the dangers of live streaming

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apps, after it emerged paedophiles

are increasingly using them

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to manipulate their victims.

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The caution from the National Crime

Agency follows a week-long

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operation by UK authorities,

which led to the arrest

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of more than 190 people

for child sexual abuse.

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Angus Crawford reports.

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Hands up all those who have

used live streaming.

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Aged 13 and 14, they know about apps

which let children broadcast

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live from their phones.

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Today, they are talking

about how to do it safely.

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Somebody could be

trying to trick you.

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The apps are quick to

download, easy to use.

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These pupils could go live

in the playground, the street

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or even their own bedrooms.

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Sometimes it can be quite

dangerous because if someone

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is following someone they don't

know, they will be able to see it.

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Like, you don't know

who is watching you.

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The real problem with some of these

apps is there is no proper checking

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of age identification so that means

a live streaming service with a 17

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rating could be used by children

as young as this or even younger,

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eight or nine.

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Look at this.

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A boy and a girl on Periscope.

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Now read the comments.

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We don't want to identify them.

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She is just nine.

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Almost 1,000 people are watching

and they're mostly adult men.

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We can't show you the

worst of the comments.

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Periscope told us it had zero

tolerance for this kind of behaviour

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but we found it on other apps too

and for the children caught up

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in it, the consequences

can be devastating.

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I found her inconsolable.

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This is an actress

but the words are true.

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Those of a mother whose 10-year

old daughter tried out

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the app Omegle for fun.

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He switched his webcam on,

showed him her private parts

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and asked her to take photos

of herself, which she did.

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She was terrified by what had

happened and scared

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of what she'd done.

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It offers offenders an immediate

connection to children and young

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people that then allows them

to manipulate children and young

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people, offer them excitement,

sympathy, connection,

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emotional connection,

involve them with games and trickery

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and we see children getting

basically manipulated to do things

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that ultimately they are very

uncomfortable about

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and don't want to do.

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A campaign video launched today

warning about the dangers of live

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streaming aimed at young people

and their parents and posing a stark

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question - when children

broadcast live to the world

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from their own bedrooms,

can they really stay safe?

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Angus Crawford, BBC News.

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A total ban on plastic

waste entering the ocean

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is being considered by environment

ministers from around the world

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at a UN meeting in the Kenyan

capital Nairobi this week.

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More than 8 million tonnes of

plastic is dumped in the ocean

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annually.

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The UN's head of oceans has

described plastic pollution

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as a "planetary emergency".

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The White House has put off

a decision on whether to break

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with other countries and recognise

Jerusalem as the capital of Israel.

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But a spokesman said

it was a matter of when, not if,

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the US embassy would move

to Jerusalem from Tel Aviv.

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Both Israelis and Palestinians claim

Jerusalem as their capital.

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Arab and Muslim nations

in the region have warned

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against any unilateral decision.

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Senior judges in the United States

have ruled that President Donald

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Trump's travel ban on six mainly

Muslim countries can

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go into full effect,

pending legal challenges.

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President Trump originally imposed

the ban on travellers from Chad,

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Iran, Libya, Somalia,

Syria and Yemen in January,

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prompting mass protests

and several legal challenges.

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The Supreme Court has now ruled

by seven votes to two

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in favour of the ban.

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A group of fishermen from the Isle

of Wight found guilty of trying

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to smuggle more than 50 million

of pounds of cocaine

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into the country have lost a key

review of their case.

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The Criminal Cases Review

Commission, which investigates

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miscarriages of justice,

says unless new evidence is found

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there is no real possibility

of overturning the convictions.

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Families and supporters of the group

say they are bitterly disappointed.

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Rail fares are set to rise

by an average of 3.4%

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from the new year.

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The increase, which is below

the rate of inflation, will take

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effect from January 2nd.

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The group, which represents train

operators, said 97% of money

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from fares goes back into improving

and running the railway.

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Nearly a fifth of patients

are regularly missing GP

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appointments, with younger people

being the worst offenders,

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according to a new study

by The Lancet Public Health journal.

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The problem's estimated

to cost the NHS at least

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162 million pounds a year.

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The director of the new

Freddie Mercury biopic,

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Bohemian Rhapsody, has been fired

due to "unreliable behaviour".

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In a statement, Twentieth Century

Fox said Bryan Singer was no longer

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the director of the film.

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A source told the BBC the main

reason for the decision

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was "a pattern of unreliable

behaviour on set".

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But Singer said he was ill

and that the studio was unwilling

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to accommodate him during that time.

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The singer and Strictly Come Dancing

contestant Alexandra Burke has hit

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back at allegations that she's

a diva backstage.

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Taking to Twitter,

she said the The Sun had

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published lies about her

after there were claims she had

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a heated backstage bust-up

with her dancing partner

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Gorka Marquez ahead of this

weekend's dance-off.

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The Sun say they stand

by their story.

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It was the second week the pair

were bottom two in the competition.

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That's a summary of the latest BBC

News, more at 9.30am.

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Thank you, I want Germany to win for

what it's worth. John says, hats off

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to the DUP for putting their foot

down. Why should we be bullied by

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Europe and now Ireland. -- I want

Gemma to win.

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Do

get in touch with us

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throughout the morning -

use the hashtag Victoria live.

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Let's get some sport with Jessica.

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What's

the latest in the cricket?

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Do England realistically

have a chance?

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The total of 354 runs to win,

wickets have been tumbling today for

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both teams. There was a faint

glimmer of hope for England but it

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looks to be fading. James Anderson

finished with five wickets as

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Australia were bowled out for 138.

That gave England the chance, they

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now a new 350 forward level the

Ashes Series. They started well, 53

0:12:150:12:23

for the first wicket but LBW here.

1-run later, Mark Stoneman was also

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out, after-dinner James Vince was

caught in the slips. England

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currently on three, Victoria.

Do

they realistically have a chance?

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England have never chased this many

runs in a Test match before. Other

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teams have so it's not impossible

but it is very unlikely. Captain Joe

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Root is at the crease at the moment

and how big the moment is this in

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his career? A chance to write his

name into history if he leads

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England towards that record chase.

Think back to how pivotal the

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Australian captain Steve Smith's

unbeaten century was in the first

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test, that is exactly what England

need now. Joe Root is currently on

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33.

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And nine years late

but Kelly Sotherton will be getting

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a bronze medal from the Beijing

Olympics?

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Yes, quite incredible, the fall out

from the Russian doping scandal and

0:13:280:13:32

Kelly Sotherton is the latest

victim, set to be awarded that

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Olympic bronze medal nine years

late. It's all because the Russian

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athlete lost her doping appeal.

Kelly Sotherton originally finished

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fifth in that event but two athletes

have had their results annulled.

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Actually it is the second Olympic

bronze she has been awarded after

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the fact from Beijing. She got the

4x4 hundred metre relay medal as

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well. Kelly Sotherton had won bronze

in the Athens Olympics, and when you

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look at this it is a big mess. The

IOC have caught more than 100

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athlete since retesting samples from

2008 and 2012.

Thank you, Jess. More

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from digest throughout the morning

and she will keep an eye on England

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for you. -- more from Jess.

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Families say it's a huge

miscarriage of justice,

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yet a group of fishermen

from the Isle of Wight jailed

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for trying to smuggle more

than £50 million of cocaine

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into the country have lost

the latest fight in their campaign

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to get their convictions overturned.

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The official body which investigates

miscarriages of justice,

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the Criminal Cases Review

Commission, has decided not to refer

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the drug smuggling cases

to the Court of Appeal,

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rejecting what the mens' lawyer

says is new evidence

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showing their fishing boat was not

near enough to pick up 12 rucksacks

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containing 560lb of cocaine

from a Brazilian container ship.

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Families of the five men

who were each jailed for up to 24

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years say they're bitterly

disappointed but have

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promised to fight on.

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Jim Reed has this exclusive report.

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It's one of the largest drug plots

in British legal history.

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For two years now, we have

been covering this case.

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A group of fishermen in prison

for trying to smuggle millions

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of pounds of cocaine

into the country.

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When you found out what he was being

accused of and charged with,

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what was your reaction?

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Oh, it's ridiculous.

What?

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It's just a stupid mistake

and he'll be home.

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But he never came home.

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He didn't come home.

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He hasn't been home since

the 18th January, 2011.

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We have had exclusive access

to a team of campaigning lawyers

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pushing hard for a retrial.

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What we have discovered calls this

conviction into question in the most

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serious way imaginable.

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Spoken to one of the jurors

in the original trial.

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I was convinced beyond any

reasonable doubt at the time.

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Now I am convinced beyond

any doubt whatsoever.

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And for the first time,

heard from the man reviewing

0:16:200:16:23

those guilty verdicts.

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So they still could have

collected the drugs?

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I think so.

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More importantly, probably

I think the Court of Appeal

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would have thought so.

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May 2010, and a fishing boat pulls

out of Yarmouth harbour

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on the Isle of Wight.

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It's early evening and

a storm is drawing in.

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Do we know who the SAO is?

0:16:470:16:51

Elsewhere in the channel,

a major surveillance

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operation is under way.

0:16:530:16:57

SOCA, the Serious Organised Crime

Agency, has intelligence

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that cocaine is onboard

a giant container ship.

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A day later, the fishermen

were arrested, charged with picking

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up the drugs in high seas and hiding

them here in this bay.

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The five men were found guilty

at trial, and given long sentences

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of up to 24 years each.

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My heart was pounding,

like it was going to

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come out of my mouth.

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I was devastated.

Absolutely devastated.

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And even more so when you heard

the reaction of the families.

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It's heartbreaking.

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Richard Yardley was

a juror in that trial.

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The only one of the 12

who found the men not guilty.

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There were a lot of things

wrong about that case.

0:17:420:17:44

Loads.

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You want to do the right thing.

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I took my job as a juror

very, very seriously.

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It doesn't necessarily end

when the verdict goes through.

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How convinced are you now,

looking back, seven years now?

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Even more convinced.

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I was convinced beyond any

reasonable doubt at the time.

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Now I am convinced beyond

any doubt whatsoever.

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I have absolutely no doubt

that these men are entirely

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innocent of this crime.

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The case against the men

was never straight forward.

0:18:210:18:24

A forensic search of

the boats could not find

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a single trace of cocaine.

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Instead, the defence team think

the conviction was based on two

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key pieces of evidence.

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First, navigational data,

which showed the fishing boat

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manoeuvring behind the container

ship, long enough for the drugs to

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be thrown overboard and picked up.

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And then the testimony of two police

officers on these cliffs

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as something was dropped off

the side of the boat, near to where

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the drugs were later found.

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Our job at this charity is to get

to the truth about a case.

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We represent prisoners as lawyers,

but we investigate cases

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like police officers do.

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For years Emily Bolton worked

on Death Row cases in America.

0:19:040:19:06

Now she runs the Centre

for Criminal Appeals,

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a small charity based in London.

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In this case, every stone

that we have unturned has pointed

0:19:160:19:18

in the direction this

conviction is unsafe.

0:19:180:19:20

But to get her clients a retrial,

she has to show the prosecution case

0:19:200:19:24

was flawed, and that means finding

new evidence to put before the CCRC.

0:19:240:19:27

That is the Criminal

Cases Review Commission.

0:19:270:19:33

It's demanding, less than 1%

of the cases that get this far

0:19:330:19:35

end up being retried.

0:19:350:19:37

This process, for a lawyer who has

practised in the United States,

0:19:370:19:39

is extremely frustrating.

0:19:390:19:40

The questions that the experts

examining the case in

0:19:400:19:43

post-conviction have thrown up

are not being answered.

0:19:430:19:51

That night seven years ago,

the fishing boat, the Galwad,

0:19:510:19:54

did have its navigational system

switched on, recording

0:19:540:19:56

its exact position.

0:19:560:20:02

Charts used in court,

and accepted by both sides at trial,

0:20:020:20:05

appear to show the boat crossing

the path of the container ship.

0:20:050:20:09

Around the same time,

calls were made from a mobile phone

0:20:090:20:11

on the mainland to the satellite

phone on the fishing boat.

0:20:110:20:16

The navigation data that was

presented to the jury was crucial

0:20:160:20:19

to them in reaching a conviction.

0:20:190:20:23

That's because it was identified

by the judge in his summing up

0:20:230:20:25

as a primary factor in the case.

0:20:250:20:29

Emily says new analysis of the data

suggests the container ship

0:20:290:20:32

adjusted its course earlier

than thought, so would never

0:20:320:20:34

have come into contact

with the fishing boat.

0:20:340:20:37

The implication of the tracks not

crossing in this case

0:20:370:20:39

is absolutely fundamental.

0:20:390:20:40

If the tracks didn't cross,

they didn't smuggle the drugs.

0:20:400:20:48

But she needs to convince the people

reviewing the case at the CCRC

0:20:480:20:52

and they say the defence team's

analysis has changed over

0:20:520:20:54

time and can't prove

the men are innocent.

0:20:540:20:58

If it was the case that the boat

was still in the harbour

0:20:580:21:03

when the big boat went past then

obviously that would be significant,

0:21:030:21:06

but here we are talking

about an extra distance now.

0:21:060:21:08

They say that the boat was 175

metres away from the big boat,

0:21:080:21:11

and in our view that just didn't

make a difference.

0:21:110:21:14

So they still could have

collected the drugs?

0:21:140:21:16

I think so.

0:21:160:21:17

As the men sailed through

the channel, a series of calls

0:21:170:21:20

were made to the fishing boat

from a mobile bought that

0:21:200:21:22

day with a fake name.

0:21:220:21:25

The fishermen say a new member

of the crew, a migrant worker,

0:21:250:21:29

had fallen ill and was trying

to call a contact for help.

0:21:290:21:32

Hello.

0:21:320:21:35

Hello darling, you all right?

0:21:350:21:36

Yes.

0:21:360:21:37

Good.

0:21:370:21:38

Good.

0:21:380:21:39

Yes, we're OK.

0:21:390:21:41

Those fishermen involved didn't

make obvious suspects.

0:21:410:21:44

Four of the five

convicted were local.

0:21:440:21:47

All had no serious criminal records.

0:21:470:21:49

The older two were family men,

with young children.

0:21:490:21:52

24 years in prison.

0:21:520:21:55

You start thinking,

what the hell are we going to do?

0:21:550:22:01

The defence team then

turned their attention to the second

0:22:010:22:03

key piece of evidence.

0:22:030:22:05

The drugs search in the channel

was a major operation.

0:22:050:22:10

There was a Border Agency ship,

and two surveillance planes.

0:22:100:22:16

As the fishing boat sailed back,

it passed through Freshwater Bay.

0:22:160:22:21

Two Hampshire Police officers say

they were stationed here on these

0:22:210:22:23

cliffs, keeping watch.

0:22:230:22:27

They called in on their radio to say

they were seeing six to seven items

0:22:270:22:31

thrown off the boat at intervals.

0:22:310:22:32

The fishermen say they may

have been chucking waste

0:22:320:22:34

overboard at the time.

0:22:340:22:36

From my point of view,

they have been convicted

0:22:360:22:38

on one piece of evidence,

which I do not believe

0:22:380:22:41

actually happened.

0:22:410:22:43

And all the evidence that I see

supports the fact it didn't happen.

0:22:430:22:48

Don Dewar is a retired

surveillance officer.

0:22:480:22:49

He worked for SOCA,

the Serious Organised Crime Agency,

0:22:490:22:52

the same unit leading

the search that day.

0:22:520:22:56

He's now working unpaid

as an expert witness

0:22:560:22:58

for the charity's defence team.

0:22:580:23:05

Is it credible that in an operation

of this scale that the surveillance

0:23:050:23:08

would be left to two

Hampshire Police

0:23:080:23:10

officers on that hill?

0:23:100:23:11

Not possible.

It would be negligent to do so.

0:23:110:23:13

Especially the resources that had

gone in, with the cutter and two

0:23:130:23:17

fixed wing aircraft.

0:23:170:23:22

After saying they saw items dropped

off the side of the fishing boats,

0:23:220:23:25

everything then went quiet.

0:23:250:23:32

Those two police look-outs

on the cliff left the area.

0:23:320:23:34

It wasn't until the next morning

that the coastguard received a call.

0:23:340:23:37

Another local fisherman had found 11

brightly coloured sacks tied

0:23:370:23:40

around his buoy in the same bay.

0:23:400:23:42

They were full of cocaine.

0:23:420:23:47

The SOCA officer in charge then

met the two Hampshire

0:23:470:23:50

policemen in a car park,

so they could change their entry

0:23:500:23:52

in the official surveillance log.

0:23:520:23:55

Instead of six to seven items,

it became ten to 12 items,

0:23:550:24:02

the size of that holdall,

tied together in a line,

0:24:020:24:04

followed by a buoy.

0:24:040:24:05

An exact description of what had

been found that morning.

0:24:050:24:10

A picture of a bag recovered

and brought to a police vessel.

0:24:100:24:14

Changing a surveillance log

is allowed so officers can clarify

0:24:140:24:22

what was seen.

0:24:220:24:24

To the defence team,

though it seems the authorities

0:24:240:24:26

were trying to fit together

a case against the men.

0:24:260:24:28

It is not possible, if these

rucksacks came over the side,

0:24:280:24:31

several officers would have

witnessed it and it would have

0:24:310:24:33

been recorded correctly.

0:24:330:24:34

I can think of no occasion

when I have worked with police,

0:24:340:24:37

SOCA or Customs and Excise officers

it would be a precis

0:24:370:24:40

after the event.

0:24:400:24:42

What would you have done

as a surveillance officer, how

0:24:420:24:44

would you have run that operation?

0:24:440:24:49

I would've had highly trained

officers in locations

0:24:490:24:51

all the way along the headland.

0:24:510:24:52

I certainly wouldn't be leaving

that to two untrained

0:24:520:24:54

Hampshire Police officers.

0:24:540:24:57

A series of complaints

were later brought against

0:24:570:24:58

the officers involved.

0:24:580:25:00

They were cleared of

serious wrongdoing.

0:25:000:25:04

The CCRC says it could find no

evidence of police deception.

0:25:040:25:10

You have got to find something

amounting to serious misconduct,

0:25:100:25:13

clear bad faith, so you know,

very, very dishonest

0:25:130:25:15

acts by these officers,

and while there was some evidence

0:25:150:25:21

of they hadn't followed

all the correct procedures,

0:25:210:25:23

I think we tend to the view

at the CCRC that that was a mistake,

0:25:230:25:26

rather than malice.

0:25:260:25:28

There is no evidence they actually

conspired or anything like that?

0:25:280:25:30

No, nothing at all.

0:25:300:25:31

Believe me, we have looked hard,

and if it was there,

0:25:310:25:34

I think we would have found it.

0:25:340:25:36

For the defence team,

though, there are many

0:25:360:25:38

questions outstanding,

and together they still add

0:25:380:25:40

up to serious doubts

about the conviction.

0:25:400:25:43

Isn't it more likely that your

clients here are simply guilty?

0:25:430:25:46

The police's job is to detect

crime, and to bring

0:25:460:25:48

the perpetrators to justice.

0:25:480:25:50

If they bring the wrong people

to court for the crime,

0:25:500:25:54

they have not served their purpose,

and that is why we have a Court

0:25:540:25:57

of Appeal, to determine

whether that's happened or not.

0:25:570:26:02

When this case did get to trial,

11 of the 12 people on the jury

0:26:020:26:05

found the men guilty.

0:26:050:26:07

But for one, serious

doubts remained.

0:26:070:26:11

There was very little

evidence against them.

0:26:110:26:12

What evidence there was,

was very circumstantial.

0:26:120:26:17

After the verdicts, the only

person to find the men not

0:26:170:26:20

guilty wrote two letters.

0:26:200:26:22

One alleging someone

at SOCA tried to interfere

0:26:220:26:26

with the first court case.

0:26:260:26:28

If proven, that would almost

certainly result in a mistrial.

0:26:280:26:31

Richard's accusation was then heard

in Appeal Court by three judges.

0:26:310:26:38

What you said at the time,

or what you said in your letter

0:26:380:26:41

was that a member of SOCA,

in the unit.

0:26:410:26:43

Yes.

0:26:430:26:47

Had taken a juror aside,

and when they realised

0:26:470:26:52

that they were involved in this

case, had said, "Look,

0:26:520:26:54

we know these guys are guilty."

0:26:540:26:55

Yes.

0:26:550:26:59

That's a serious accusation.

0:26:590:27:00

Yes, basically, he said

to them, "They're guilty."

0:27:000:27:03

But after an investigation,

three judges said there was no

0:27:030:27:06

support for his allegation.

0:27:060:27:07

They questioned his credibility,

and ruled his evidence

0:27:070:27:09

could not be relied upon.

0:27:090:27:14

What I don't understand is nobody

in that Appeal Court ever asked

0:27:140:27:18

themselves the question,

"What has this guy got to gain

0:27:180:27:20

by going through all of this?

0:27:200:27:23

By writing these two letters?

0:27:230:27:26

Why would he go to all that

trouble unless what he is

0:27:260:27:29

saying is the truth?"

0:27:290:27:30

Why?

0:27:300:27:34

Without a fresh breakthrough,

though, the defence team's options

0:27:340:27:36

are now becoming limited.

0:27:360:27:39

The people reviewing the case

at the CCRC say based

0:27:390:27:45

on what they have seen so far,

there's no reason to refer

0:27:450:27:47

the case back to court

for a possible retrial.

0:27:470:27:51

The defence team's argument is, look

at all these pieces put together,

0:27:510:27:54

and that does raise bigger concerns

about the safety of

0:27:540:27:57

the conviction in this case.

0:27:570:27:59

Yes, and we have considered it

in that light as well,

0:27:590:28:02

but there was this very strong,

albeit mainly circumstantial

0:28:020:28:05

case, that the people

on the boat were the ones

0:28:050:28:08

who collected the drugs.

0:28:080:28:09

This isn't the end of the road.

0:28:090:28:11

There is still the chance for some

of the men to appeal

0:28:110:28:14

directly to a judge,

or, if new evidence suddenly

0:28:140:28:17

emerges, for the men,

their families and their supporters

0:28:170:28:19

then, this case is far from over.

0:28:190:28:25

After 10am, we'll be

talking to families

0:28:300:28:32

of some of the fishermen.

0:28:320:28:39

Also still to come:

0:28:390:28:43

We will bring you a fairly bad

tempered interview between a

0:28:430:28:48

Conservative and SNP politician and

we will tell you everything you need

0:28:480:28:50

to know about the phrase regulatory

alignment which is proving to be a

0:28:500:28:54

headache for Theresa May.

Negotiations are one-sided says this

0:28:540:28:58

viewer. We are giving too much and

the EU are giving nothing in return.

0:28:580:29:01

We must be strong and walk away.

They will soon come running after

0:29:010:29:04

us. Stevie on e-mail, "Finally the

English are finding out what the

0:29:040:29:12

majority of Northern Irish people

knew with the DUP pact. They are not

0:29:120:29:18

interested in only what is best for

Northern Ireland."

0:29:180:29:23

The UN oceans chief is warning

that the rising tide of plastic

0:29:230:29:26

in our seas is at epic levels.

0:29:260:29:27

We'll be looking at how bad

the problem has become.

0:29:270:29:30

." We will be asking if it's too

late.

0:29:300:29:37

Time for the latest

news, here's Ben.

0:29:370:29:42

Theresa May will meet

with her cabinet this morning

0:29:420:29:45

after returning from Brussels last

night with no deal to push

0:29:450:29:47

forward the Brexit talks.

0:29:470:29:50

Negotiations came to a halt

after the Democratic Unionist Party,

0:29:500:30:00

who support the Conservative

government, said it would not accept

0:30:020:30:05

a deal which saw Northern Ireland

treated differently

0:30:050:30:07

from the rest of the UK.

0:30:070:30:08

Parents are being warned

about the dangers of live streaming

0:30:080:30:10

apps after it emerged paedophiles

are using it to

0:30:100:30:13

manipulate their victims.

0:30:130:30:14

The warning from the National Crime

Agency follows a week-long operation

0:30:140:30:16

by UK authorities which led

to the arrest of more

0:30:160:30:19

than 190 people for child

sexual abuse offences.

0:30:190:30:25

The White House has put off

a decision on whether to break

0:30:250:30:28

with the international community

and recognise Jerusalem

0:30:280:30:30

as the capital of Israel.

0:30:300:30:31

But a spokesman said

it was a matter of when, not if,

0:30:310:30:34

the US embassy would move

to Jerusalem from Tel Aviv.

0:30:340:30:36

Both Israelis and Palestinians claim

Jerusalem as their capital.

0:30:360:30:39

Arab and Muslim nations

in the region have warned

0:30:390:30:41

against any unilateral decision.

0:30:410:30:44

Meanwhile senior judges

in the United States have ruled that

0:30:440:30:48

President Donald Trump's travel ban

on six mainly Muslim countries can

0:30:480:30:50

go into full effect,

pending legal challenges.

0:30:500:30:53

President Trump originally imposed

the ban on travellers from Chad,

0:30:530:30:56

Iran, Libya, Somalia,

Syria and Yemen in January,

0:30:560:30:59

prompting mass protests

and several legal challenges.

0:30:590:31:03

The Supreme Court has now ruled

by seven votes to two

0:31:030:31:06

in favour of the ban.

0:31:060:31:12

That's a summary of

the latest BBC News.

0:31:120:31:14

Some sport now with Jessica.

0:31:140:31:21

England need of record test run

chase to rescue the second Ashes

0:31:210:31:25

Test against Australia. James Vince

was the last wicket to fall in

0:31:250:31:29

Adelaide. Joe Root up now.

108-3. Russia will be banned from

0:31:290:31:41

the Winter Olympics, they missed Rio

because of state-sponsored doping.

0:31:410:31:49

It will be decided whether they have

changed enough to compete in South

0:31:490:31:54

Korea. Kelly Sotherton will be

awarded the Bronze medal from the

0:31:540:31:58

2008 Olympic Games, after the

Russian athlete lost an appeal

0:31:580:32:02

against a doping violation.

And Judd Trump has been knocked out

0:32:020:32:06

of the UK Snooker championship in

York, beaten 6-2 in the third round

0:32:060:32:12

by Graham. -- Graeme Dott.

0:32:120:32:26

Thank you.

0:32:260:32:27

In the space of the last few

months Theresa May called

0:32:270:32:30

a snap general election

so that she could boost her majority

0:32:300:32:32

of MPs and therefore she said get

a better Brexit deal.

0:32:320:32:35

That didn't go to plan and she ended

up instead losing her majority.

0:32:350:32:38

In order to try and cling to power,

she then did a deal with Northern

0:32:380:32:42

Ireland's Democratic Unionist Party

- a party of ten MPs -

0:32:420:32:44

handing them £1 billion in funding

effectively in exchange

0:32:440:32:47

for their support.

0:32:470:32:49

It is that deal with the DUP

which has now prevented

0:32:490:32:52

Theresa May from securing

a Brexit deal.

0:32:520:32:53

The sticking point is over

the Northern Ireland

0:32:530:32:56

border issue and something called

regulatory alignment.

0:32:560:33:03

It's a mouthful, regulatory

alignment, and it is meant to be a

0:33:030:33:05

phrase so vague it would keep

everyone happy, only it seems to

0:33:050:33:09

have left almost everyone unhappy.

So what is it meant to mean? It's

0:33:090:33:15

meant to signal that existing

customs rules between Northern

0:33:150:33:19

Ireland and Ireland will stay

roughly the same after Brexit. In

0:33:190:33:22

other words there would be no new

border checks, customs controls or

0:33:220:33:30

tiresome extra paperwork. Sounds

simple, if only! Because all sides

0:33:300:33:35

have different takes on regulatory

alignment. To the Irish government

0:33:350:33:47

it means there will be no need for a

border between north and south. To

0:33:470:33:50

the British government it means

there will only be a light touch

0:33:500:33:52

border with limited customs checks.

To the DUP however it means Northern

0:33:520:33:54

Ireland risks being hived off from

the rest of the UK. Their fear, that

0:33:540:33:59

regulatory alignment is being used

by some in Dublin to pave the way

0:33:590:34:06

for a united Ireland. So what

happens now? Someone is going to

0:34:060:34:10

have to come up with a new phrase

and perhaps we will all just have to

0:34:100:34:15

forget about regulatory alignment.

0:34:150:34:19

Instead of a celebratory press

conference yesterday,

0:34:190:34:21

the Prime Minister and European

Commission President Jean Claude

0:34:210:34:23

Junker had this to say.

0:34:230:34:24

Both sides have been working

hard, in good faith.

0:34:240:34:27

We have been negotiating hard,

and a lot of progress has been made,

0:34:270:34:30

and on many of the issues

there is a common understanding,

0:34:300:34:35

and it is clear, crucially,

that we want to move

0:34:350:34:38

forward together.

0:34:380:34:39

But on a couple of issues some

differences do remain,

0:34:390:34:42

which require further

negotiation, and consultation.

0:34:420:34:48

She is a tough negotiator,

and not an easy one.

0:34:480:34:52

She's defending the point

of view of Britain,

0:34:520:34:57

with all the energy we know she has,

and I'm doing the same on the side

0:34:570:35:01

of the European Union.

0:35:010:35:10

That was yesterday.

0:35:100:35:19

This morning, SNP leader

Nicola Sturgeon has said:

0:35:190:35:26

This could be a moment

to push to keep

0:35:260:35:29

the whole of the UK in the single

market and customs union.

0:35:290:35:32

In the last half an hour the leader

of the Scottish Tories has called

0:35:320:35:35

on May to look at regulatory

alignment for the whole of the UK -

0:35:350:35:38

not just Northern Ireland.

0:35:380:35:39

Earlier we got reaction from an SNP

and Tory politician,

0:35:390:35:44

Michael Russell, an MSP

and Scottish Government minister

0:35:440:35:47

for UK negotiations on Scotland's

place in Europe, and David Jones,

0:35:470:35:50

former Brexit minister.

0:35:500:35:52

The reality of the situation is the

only sensible step, apart from

0:35:520:35:57

staying in the EU which is a really

sensible step because this is a

0:35:570:36:02

waste of time and money.

It might be

for you but what about the people

0:36:020:36:06

who voted for it?

They were sold a

pup.

Is that patronising?

As we now

0:36:060:36:17

know, there were a lot of lies told.

It will damage jobs. In Scotland the

0:36:170:36:24

people didn't vote for it, we voted

substantially against it and a poll

0:36:240:36:29

yesterday showed an even larger

majority against it so the sensible

0:36:290:36:33

thing is to stop, look at this and

save the sensible thing is not to do

0:36:330:36:37

it but if they are still hell-bent

on doing it, at least do it in the

0:36:370:36:44

way that is least damaging. We now

coming out of the customs union will

0:36:440:36:50

be very damaging and now we see the

only way to square the circle in

0:36:500:36:55

Ireland is to be in the single

market and Customs union so let's be

0:36:550:36:59

sensible.

Let me bring in David

Jones, former Brexit minister. I

0:36:590:37:04

don't know if you caught what Mr

Russell was saying but the SNP are

0:37:040:37:09

saying "This is the moment now for

Britain to push to stay in the

0:37:090:37:13

single market and customs union

because that is the most sensible

0:37:130:37:19

and satisfies everybody".

We have

already triggered the Article 50

0:37:190:37:23

process to leave the European

Union...

You can stay in the single

0:37:230:37:28

market and customs union if you make

that choice.

Of course you can. You

0:37:280:37:36

can stay.

Your customary rudeness

does not help on this occasion. The

0:37:360:37:43

fact is if we are leaving the

European Union we will be leaving

0:37:430:37:48

the single market, customs union and

cease to be subject...

Only because

0:37:480:37:53

Mrs May made that choice.

No,

because that's what leaving the

0:37:530:37:59

European Union means, ceasing to be

bound by the European treaties. We

0:37:590:38:03

could seek to negotiate some form of

access or arrangement with the

0:38:030:38:08

customs union but that is a wholly

separate negotiation, not something

0:38:080:38:13

we can elect to do because we have

started the process of leaving.

Do

0:38:130:38:17

you think the unravelling of this

deal makes Theresa May look

0:38:170:38:22

ridiculous?

It was a difficult day

for her but today is another day and

0:38:220:38:26

she will be speaking to the DUP...

Did she not speak to them ahead of

0:38:260:38:32

that launch?

Clearly there was a

misunderstanding between the

0:38:320:38:38

Government's position and the DUP.

I'm sorry to interrupt but how is

0:38:380:38:44

that possible? How could there be a

misunderstanding, what do you mean?

0:38:440:38:50

Quite clearly Downing Street and the

DUP were not on the same page as far

0:38:500:38:55

as this was concerned.

How is that

possible?

I'm not the person to ask.

0:38:550:39:03

Dear oh dear.

I can hear Mr

Russell's intervention and he's

0:39:030:39:08

probably been the least productive

of anyone I have met.

You have been

0:39:080:39:19

led to disaster by people like David

Jones who haven't a clue.

I will

0:39:190:39:21

come back to you in a moment, Mr

Russell. Did the DUP do the right

0:39:210:39:26

thing, Mr Jones?

Clearly they have a

duty to their electors in Northern

0:39:260:39:30

Ireland and they want to make sure

that whatever arrangements are put

0:39:300:39:34

in place are satisfactory to them.

Why do you think Mrs May thought it

0:39:340:39:41

would be acceptable to stay in the

single market and customs union in

0:39:410:39:45

all but name in Northern Ireland?

Again, I'm not the person to ask

0:39:450:39:50

because the people to ask other

people who are advising Mrs May.

Do

0:39:500:39:54

you think that was a good idea?

Clearly there should have been

0:39:540:40:01

clarity.

Of course but the principle

of what was being suggested, do you

0:40:010:40:08

back that?

No, I think it's

extremely difficult to see how you

0:40:080:40:12

can have wholly separate

arrangements for Northern Ireland as

0:40:120:40:14

against the rest of the UK, but

nevertheless of course Northern

0:40:140:40:19

Ireland has always been a very

special case and special

0:40:190:40:23

arrangements have for some time been

made over the border.

Therefore you

0:40:230:40:28

can understand the SNP saying if

there's going to be a distinct and

0:40:280:40:33

unique deal for Northern Ireland as

opposed to a UK wide deal, can we

0:40:330:40:37

have a distinct deal for Scotland.

Bear in mind the SNP is a party of

0:40:370:40:43

nationalists whose aim is to break

up the United Kingdom.

But you could

0:40:430:40:48

argue after what Mrs May was

suggesting yesterday that that was

0:40:480:40:55

leading to the UK. -- to the

break-up of the UK.

Whenever we are

0:40:550:41:05

dealing with Northern Ireland we

have to be extremely careful to

0:41:050:41:08

reflect the political realities.

Final thought from you on what will

0:41:080:41:15

happen now.

David Jones doesn't know

what he's talking about it, he is

0:41:150:41:21

making a mess of it and so are the

people around him. In the name of

0:41:210:41:25

God, stop this nonsense because we

are being led to disaster by people

0:41:250:41:30

like David Jones.

Mr Russell was

probably the biggest impediment in

0:41:300:41:34

the negotiations in the devolved

negotiations and he's just displayed

0:41:340:41:41

why he is a danger to the whole

process of Brexit.

This is just

0:41:410:41:48

nonsense.

I am going to leave it

there but thank you for your time, I

0:41:480:41:54

appreciate it. David Jones and

Michael Russell, thank you.

0:41:540:42:00

Both sides say they are hopeful a

deal can be reached by the end of

0:42:000:42:04

the week, how likely is that? Let's

get reaction from Belfast.

0:42:040:42:18

What form of words do you think will

be acceptable to the DUP to solve

0:42:180:42:23

this issue?

I think you are dealing

here with a form of words which had

0:42:230:42:32

in them, it's often described as

creative ambiguity. What unionists

0:42:320:42:41

across Northern Ireland, and the DUP

is the largest party, they are

0:42:410:42:45

looking for clarity, looking for

certainty and what they are quite

0:42:450:42:49

firm about is that Northern Ireland

should be in no way differentiated

0:42:490:42:53

from the rest of the United Kingdom

in this process because yesterday

0:42:530:42:58

the talk was around alignment and

convergence with the Irish Republic

0:42:580:43:03

and with the EU and that convergence

would produce divergence from the

0:43:030:43:08

rest of the UK. As your graphic

earlier showed, that would lead in

0:43:080:43:13

effect to a redrawing of the border

between Northern Ireland and the sea

0:43:130:43:20

and the rest of the UK.

So that more

than a misunderstanding?

I find this

0:43:200:43:26

difficult to understand today. It is

somewhat bizarre. If you go back to

0:43:260:43:31

October and the Conservative Party

conference, during the conference

0:43:310:43:35

Arlene Foster was interviewed and

she was very clear there would be no

0:43:350:43:38

question of Northern Ireland

accepting a border of the sea. There

0:43:380:43:44

was no question of it then, that was

repeated on several occasions by her

0:43:440:43:49

deputy leader Nigel Dodds, and also

some other MPs.

Absolutely, but

0:43:490:43:56

Arlene Foster you would have thought

would have been briefed on the

0:43:560:43:59

proposed agreement in advance,

wouldn't you? Perhaps that was too

0:43:590:44:04

general briefing, I don't know.

This

goes back to the Belfast agreement

0:44:040:44:10

and even beyond. There has been a

tendency by Westminster negotiators

0:44:100:44:14

to come up with phrases and

terminology that is really about

0:44:140:44:21

creative ambiguity. It means one

person takes one view of it and

0:44:210:44:25

another person takes another view. I

suspect there may have been some

0:44:250:44:30

hope, some expectation by the

negotiators around Downing Street

0:44:300:44:33

and Westminster that if they came up

with a form of words they could sell

0:44:330:44:38

it to Northern Ireland is one thing

and sell it to the Irish Republic as

0:44:380:44:42

something different and they would

get away with it, and that doesn't

0:44:420:44:45

work. We need certainty. This is an

important issue. We need cooperation

0:44:450:44:52

between the UK and the Irish

Republic. When the previous

0:44:520:45:02

Taoiseach Enda Kenny was there,

there was a different approach to

0:45:020:45:08

things. In the summer he retired and

was replaced under the whole mood

0:45:080:45:12

changed.

There are some asking why a

small Northern Ireland political

0:45:120:45:21

party of just ten MPs is able to

call the shots on this.

It's not

0:45:210:45:26

just a question of one political

party with ten seats, they have a

0:45:260:45:30

significance in Westminster and it

shows the importance of taking seats

0:45:300:45:35

at Westminster. Sinn Fein don't take

their seats at Westminster, but we

0:45:350:45:39

are talking about one of the

constituent parts of the UK and when

0:45:390:45:43

Theresa May became Prime Minister

she stood on the steps of Downing

0:45:430:45:48

Street and spoke about being the

Prime Minister of Great Britain and

0:45:480:45:51

Northern Ireland. It is part of the

UK and deserves similar treatment to

0:45:510:45:56

the rest of the UK. That's hiving

off divergence with the rest of the

0:45:560:46:03

UK outside the European Union and

Northern Ireland locked into the

0:46:030:46:07

Republic and into the EU but with no

real say in things would create a

0:46:070:46:13

second-class situation for Northern

Ireland.

0:46:130:46:19

Jan says, "We were told so many

different things that it now seems

0:46:190:46:24

clear nobody had a clue." Emma

tweets, "The Conservatives haven't a

0:46:240:46:29

clue. We are being led into a

Dayser. Those in Northern Ireland

0:46:290:46:35

are allowed to stay in the EU, while

the rest are led into the abyss."

0:46:350:46:44

Another says Geraint Jones is an

utter embarrassment.

0:46:440:46:48

After 10am, we'll talk to the second

contestant voted out

0:46:480:46:51

of I'm a Celebrity, former

leader of Scottish Labour

0:46:510:46:53

Kezia Dugdale who says she has no

regrets and knows she now has

0:46:530:46:56

to make amends with Labour

colleagues and voters.

0:46:560:46:59

Next, a warning that sex offenders

are grooming children as they live

0:47:000:47:06

video stream on apps like Periscope,

Facebook Live and Musical.ly.

0:47:060:47:10

In just one week, police say

they arrested 192 suspects

0:47:100:47:14

across the UK on suspicion of child

sexual abuse offences and prevented

0:47:140:47:17

345 children from coming to harm.

0:47:170:47:20

30% of those cases involved

streaming, blackmail and grooming.

0:47:200:47:26

Live video-streaming

is like live TV.

0:47:260:47:28

Users log onto the app,

turn on the live-streaming feature,

0:47:280:47:30

aim the camera on themselves

and broadcast to whoever

0:47:300:47:32

is following them.

0:47:320:47:35

Police say offenders often

use tricks or dares,

0:47:350:47:42

the offer of online gifts or threats

to try to manipulate

0:47:420:47:48

young people into taking

their clothes off on camera

0:47:480:47:50

and their use by online sex

offenders is increasing.

0:47:500:47:52

Let's talk to Zoe Hilton

from the National Crime Agency.

0:47:520:47:57

John Staines who has had a long

career in child protection

0:47:570:47:59

and law enforcement.

0:47:590:48:01

In Essex is Rebecca Dilliway

with her daughter Emily

0:48:010:48:09

who is 11 and was approached

by someone trying to blackmail her

0:48:090:48:11

on one streaming app.

0:48:110:48:13

In Illinois is Brad Summer whose

seven-year-old daughter

0:48:130:48:18

was approached by a paedophile

on the live streaming app.

0:48:180:48:22

I'm going to start with Brad. Thank

you for talking to our British

0:48:220:48:25

audience. While your daughter was

using one particular app she was

0:48:250:48:29

approached by someone who wasn't who

they said they were. Tell us what

0:48:290:48:33

happened.

Sure. She was on one of

the live streaming apps and

0:48:330:48:39

basically having a good time with

her friends and friends of her

0:48:390:48:42

cousins and they are all in the

underage ten group and she got a

0:48:420:48:48

friend request from a person

claiming to be nine years old. She

0:48:480:48:53

accepted that friend request and

later to come to find out that this

0:48:530:48:58

person was not a nine-year-old. They

continuously tried to get her to do

0:48:580:49:05

things in private.

We are showing

our audience some of the screen

0:49:050:49:09

shots you took of the kind of

messages. Effectively this person

0:49:090:49:14

was asking her to take her clothes

off?

Right. She knew better luckily.

0:49:140:49:20

A lot of kids don't know what to do

in that situation. We were fortunate

0:49:200:49:24

enough to have a great line of

communication with our daughter. I

0:49:240:49:29

think that's key with children using

the apps is making sure that your

0:49:290:49:34

children feel comfortable enough to

come to you and that's what our

0:49:340:49:37

daughter did. Luckily and we're able

to speak to you today to let you

0:49:370:49:42

know, to be on the look out.

Yes.

You sent a message to this man and

0:49:420:49:48

we assume it's a man. "I am her

father and I am a police. We have

0:49:480:49:54

documented your IP address and

location I recommend you refrain

0:49:540:49:58

from any other contact." You got in

touch with the app. They are based

0:49:580:50:01

in a different country to you. How

did you find the experience of

0:50:010:50:04

trying to get the company to act and

what was it that you wanted them to

0:50:040:50:07

do and please don't name them

because we need to give them a right

0:50:070:50:11

of reply.

Understood. So, we had a

hard time getting hold of them. I

0:50:110:50:18

would have thought with the

publicity that this obtained that

0:50:180:50:23

they would have at least attempted

to get hold of us. We finally did

0:50:230:50:28

reach out to a member of their

operations group and they weren't

0:50:280:50:33

too forthcoming with wanting to help

out. Honestly, I believe it's more

0:50:330:50:44

about their income than their

fanbase or their safety.

OK. Brad,

0:50:440:50:49

I'm going to bring in Rebecca and

Emily who had a sort of similar

0:50:490:50:53

experience. Hello both of you. Thank

you very much for coming on the

0:50:530:50:57

programme. Hi, Emily niece to talk

to you. I know Emily you downloaded

0:50:570:51:03

an app on your phone without your

mum knowing, but you did go to your

0:51:030:51:07

mum when you started to get

inappropriate and then threatening

0:51:070:51:11

messages, didn't you? What kind of

things were the messages saying?

0:51:110:51:17

Like, are you single? And then I

just didn't reply and then like, it

0:51:170:51:23

was just weird because they were

just asking me like questions. Like,

0:51:230:51:27

are you single? Where do you live?

All that.

And how did that make you

0:51:270:51:34

feel?

Very frightened, but then I

just showed mum and she dealt with

0:51:340:51:41

it.

Rebecca, what kind of messages

did you see?

It started off with,

0:51:410:51:47

"You are pretty." And then it asked

if she was single and then it said,

0:51:470:51:53

"I would do anything for you." And

then because she hadn't responded it

0:51:530:51:56

turned quite aggressive. Threatening

that he was going to harm her

0:51:560:51:59

family. She shouldn't tell anybody

and that includes friends, family or

0:51:590:52:04

police. He could find out where she

lives. She should turn her location

0:52:040:52:10

settings off and he would track her

down and they sent photos as if he

0:52:100:52:16

was trying to track her.

He was in

the process of like already in the

0:52:160:52:20

process of...

We couldn't see what

it was, but it looked like he was

0:52:200:52:25

hacking her phone or iPad.

What do

you think about that as Emily's mum

0:52:250:52:29

Oh, I was furious. So, as soon as

she showed me, I said, "You are now

0:52:290:52:36

dealing with her mum." . Emily is

not bothered by you and we will be

0:52:360:52:42

taking it further."

Let me bring in

Zoe and John. Hello. Is this a new

0:52:420:52:48

online threat to children?

Well,

with live streaming we're seeing the

0:52:480:52:55

intensification really of the old

threats. So offenders have always

0:52:550:52:59

tried to groom and manipulate

children online. They have always

0:52:590:53:02

tried to make a connection with

children that's unmoderated that's

0:53:020:53:07

away from their parents and use that

connection and that manipulation,

0:53:070:53:10

but I think with live streaming,

because it's so immediate, you can

0:53:100:53:14

switch it on. You have that

immediate live visual broadcast. It

0:53:140:53:19

can be to one on one. It can be with

multiple people. Offenders are

0:53:190:53:25

really exploiting that kind of

immediacy, the fact that it's not

0:53:250:53:29

moderated and the fact that it's

exciting for children and young

0:53:290:53:32

people and really I think that's,

it's the intensification of the

0:53:320:53:36

threat that we are seeing. At NCA we

are seeing 100 a month of what we

0:53:360:53:43

would call high-risk cases. Cases

where children and young people have

0:53:430:53:47

been abused and exploited online.

Are you able to track down the

0:53:470:53:49

suspects?

We do in those cases. Our

priority is safeguarding it the

0:53:490:53:53

child and working with the parents

and then targeting the offender and

0:53:530:53:58

if we have enough evidence, we can

do so, yeah.

Right. But that must be

0:53:580:54:02

hard to track them down?

It can be

very difficult.

They could be

0:54:020:54:05

anywhere in the world.

It can be

very difficult. 192 arrests, that

0:54:050:54:12

was targeted at offending against

children and 30% of that was using

0:54:120:54:17

live streaming. So we do have

methods that we can use to target

0:54:170:54:20

this kind of offending, but

obviously, as you say, it is a

0:54:200:54:23

global threat so we really, really

need to work on our prevention and

0:54:230:54:28

you are education and that's why we

have launched our Live Skills

0:54:280:54:32

Resources. There is resources for

parents and carers of children and

0:54:320:54:36

young people to educate them about

live streaming and the new thaet

0:54:360:54:41

that they need to be aware of, but

for teachers.

I'm going to go back

0:54:410:54:46

to Brad and Rebecca in a moment to

see how their behaviour changed as a

0:54:460:54:49

result of their experience. John,

how do children go about spotting

0:54:490:54:52

when someone might not be who they

say they are?

Children are good.

0:54:520:54:56

They realise. The biggest problem is

once they find an offender online,

0:54:560:55:01

it is how they deal with T like Zoe

said with the education, they can't

0:55:010:55:05

turn to no one. And a message we

deal with a lot in our training and

0:55:050:55:10

we spoke to 10,000 children in the

last year is all about stranger

0:55:100:55:15

danger and reinventing that story

and educating the parents and that's

0:55:150:55:18

where it goes wrong because they

don't understand that. We tell our

0:55:180:55:22

children if they are in the real

world that someone will come up with

0:55:220:55:25

sweets and someone may say, "Come

and see my puppies." The children

0:55:250:55:29

understand that story. Online when

someone gives them a sweet, an

0:55:290:55:34

app...

Points, diamonds.

They tell

their parents and the parents ban

0:55:340:55:38

the game and take the device away

and punish them. That can't be

0:55:380:55:43

right, because we don't understand,

we don't understand why they are

0:55:430:55:46

doing T it is not our world. We can

parent everything else in life.

We

0:55:460:55:51

might not be scared, but we might be

getting rid of the device for a bit.

0:55:510:55:56

That's the problem, isn't it?

Rebecca, how have you changed the

0:55:560:56:00

way you behave with devices? I mean,

you know, Emily downloaded the app

0:56:000:56:06

without your knowledge. Have you

changed settings? What have you

0:56:060:56:09

done?

Yes, she also has Instagram

and we went straight on to Instagram

0:56:090:56:15

and put all the security settings

on. Deleted loads of people that she

0:56:150:56:21

didn't know that she was just

accepting. So the only people she is

0:56:210:56:25

friends with now and they were just

her school friends and me so I

0:56:250:56:29

follow her on Instagram and it's on

my phone too. There is no other live

0:56:290:56:33

streaming apps on her phone that she

is allowed to use anymore.

0:56:330:56:38

Is that the right decision, Emily?

How agree with that?

Yeah, I totally

0:56:380:56:44

agree.

Yes, it really frightened

her. The two nights after it what

0:56:440:56:49

happened, she couldn't go to bed on

her own. She thought efficiency

0:56:490:56:53

going to come and try and get her or

harm the family. She was really

0:56:530:56:57

worried.

Brad as the told the

suspect that was targeting your

0:56:570:57:02

daughter, you are a police officer,

you are a dad, you knew how to

0:57:020:57:06

document his IP address. Have you

changed your behaviour or were you

0:57:060:57:11

happy with the way you were

supervising hur daughter?

I'm happy

0:57:110:57:15

that my daughter listened to the way

that I was supervising her, but I

0:57:150:57:21

can tell you that you know tracking

these people down, it is difficult.

0:57:210:57:25

I mean, it takes an international

co-operation to find these people

0:57:250:57:30

and that's kind of road block we hit

was that you know, issuing subpoenas

0:57:300:57:38

for IP addresses out there,

governments approving those to grab

0:57:380:57:44

these suspects was probably the most

difficult challenge that we came

0:57:440:57:48

across. To the point of with the

fear of a child getting in trouble

0:57:480:57:55

for the app, I think that's the

number one thing that you need to

0:57:550:58:01

reiterate to your children, they

wouldn't be in trouble, or if you

0:58:010:58:05

delete the apps, they have friends

and they're not going to tell you if

0:58:050:58:08

that happens on a friend's phone.

Sure.

Open communication is crucial

0:58:080:58:14

in these situations.

That's a stre

good point. Thank you very much,

0:58:140:58:19

Brad, thanks Rebecca, thanks Emily,

thank you John and thank you Zoe

0:58:190:58:23

from the National Crime Agency. Your

experience is welcome, of course,

0:58:230:58:26

how do you monitor and how do you

supervise when your children are

0:58:260:58:31

using the live streaming apps, or

are they in their bedroom with their

0:58:310:58:34

mates doing whatever they want to

did and potentially being vulnerable

0:58:340:58:39

to suspects out there. The latest

news and sport at 10am. Before that,

0:58:390:58:43

here is the weather.

0:58:430:58:47

We are in for changeable weather

conditions. We are looking at a fine

0:58:480:58:54

and mild start. In the middle of the

week, it becomes wet and windy and

0:58:540:58:59

it will be colder with some of us

seeing snow. Today, you can see we

0:58:590:59:03

have got the yellow across us.

That's milder air. Tomorrow, we will

0:59:030:59:06

have it. It will be the far south on

Thursday and the cold air pushes

0:59:060:59:11

across the UK during Friday and also

into the weekend. So this morning a

0:59:110:59:15

lot of cloud around. One or two

brighter breaks here there. Most

0:59:150:59:20

notably across north-east England

and eastern and north-east Scotland.

0:59:200:59:23

We have got a peppering of showers

on high ground. The rain that we

0:59:230:59:27

have coming in across the north-west

will become established as we head

0:59:270:59:31

through the afternoon and turn

heavier and persistent. It is going

0:59:310:59:35

to be accompanied by strengthening

winds. Move south of that, we are

0:59:350:59:38

into drier conditions with some

showers on the hills and again, the

0:59:380:59:43

brightest conditions across Eastern

Scotland and north-east England.

0:59:430:59:46

Further south, we could see one or

two brighter breaks develop, but

0:59:460:59:49

they will be fairly transient as the

cloud comes and goes during the day

0:59:490:59:53

and with temperatures up to ten

Celsius, they are bang on where they

0:59:530:59:56

should be at this stage in December.

Through this evening and overnight

0:59:560:59:59

we continue with the wet and windy

conditions across the north of

0:59:591:00:02

Scotland. Come south, we're looking

at a lot of cloud, some showers,

1:00:021:00:08

particularly in the west and no real

problems lows of six to nine

1:00:081:00:16

Celsius. You may find fog first

thing in the morning. Tomorrow we

1:00:161:00:20

start off on a dry, but cloudy note.

We have the rain across Northern

1:00:201:00:23

Scotland. Still windy and one front

comes across us. Another one coming

1:00:231:00:28

in behind it. As you can see on

Wednesday, we are in the milder

1:00:281:00:33

conditions. The wind will become a

feature. It will be a feature on

1:00:331:00:37

Wednesday, but even more so as we

head on through the night and into

1:00:371:00:41

Thursday with the potential for

storm-force winds across the north

1:00:411:00:43

and the north-west of Scotland and

the wind dragging the rain quite

1:00:431:00:47

quickly away on to the near

Continent leaving behind it a lot of

1:00:471:00:51

dry weather, but some showers.

Across parts of Northern Scotland,

1:00:511:00:54

some of the showers will be falling

as snow, progressively to lower

1:00:541:00:58

levels through the day and we could

see a peppering of wintriness in the

1:00:581:01:03

showers coming in from the west. As

we head into Friday, again, it's the

1:01:031:01:08

East Coast that will see a mixture

of rain, sleet and snow showers, we

1:01:081:01:13

will see some more snow coming in

across the north and the west and

1:01:131:01:17

away from the coast some of that

will accumulate. It will be cold.

1:01:171:01:20

That three Celsius you saw in

Newcastle will feel more like minus

1:01:201:01:24

three.

1:01:241:01:27

Hello it's Tuesday,

it's ten o'clock.

1:01:291:01:31

I'm Victoria Derbyshire.

1:01:311:01:32

Our main story this morning:

Progress on Brexit has stalled

1:01:321:01:36

after one of Britain's smallest

political parties vetoed the PM's

1:01:361:01:39

Brexit deal over the Irish border.

1:01:391:01:40

The SNP says one way to solve

the issue is to stay

1:01:401:01:43

in the single market,

but not everyone agrees.

1:01:431:01:45

It's extremely difficult to do that

because we've already triggered the

1:01:451:01:49

Article 50 process to leave the

European Union.

You can stay in the

1:01:491:01:54

single market and Customs union if

you make that choice.

You can't

1:01:541:01:58

actually.

Yes you can. Yes you can.

1:01:581:02:13

We will get reaction from the SNP.

1:02:141:02:19

What are your thoughts of events

over the last 24 hours?

1:02:191:02:24

Ocean plastic is a planetary

crisis - so says the UN -

1:02:241:02:27

it wants tougher action

on plastic entering the seas.

1:02:271:02:35

A mother is holding her newborn

young, it's dead.

1:02:351:02:45

The UN is holding a summit in Kenya

today and we'll be speaking to them

1:02:451:02:50

this hour.

1:02:501:02:52

A group of fishermen from the Isle

of Wight who say their conviction

1:02:521:02:55

for smuggling 50 million pounds

of cocaine into the UK

1:02:551:03:00

is a miscarriage of justice - have

lost a key review of their case.

1:03:001:03:05

We'll be speaking to

the men's families shortly.

1:03:051:03:11

Here's Ben in the BBC Newsroom

with a summary of today's news.

1:03:111:03:16

Good morning.

1:03:161:03:19

Theresa May will meet

with her Cabinet and officials

1:03:191:03:21

from the Democratic Unionist Party

after returning from Brussels last

1:03:211:03:23

night with no deal to push

forward the Brexit talks.

1:03:231:03:25

Negotiations came to a halt

after the DUP, who support

1:03:251:03:28

the Conservative government,

said it would not accept a deal

1:03:281:03:30

which saw Northern Ireland treated

differently from the rest of the UK.

1:03:301:03:33

Ministers are insisting they are

close to an agreement.

We have made

1:03:331:03:36

a lot of progress, over the last

weeks we have made tremendous steps

1:03:361:03:40

forward. We are very close but not

there yet.

1:03:401:03:45

A total ban on plastic

waste entering the ocean

1:03:451:03:47

is being considered by environment

ministers from around the world

1:03:471:03:50

at a UN meeting in the Kenyan

capital Nairobi this week.

1:03:501:03:53

More than eight million tonnes

of plastic is dumped

1:03:531:03:55

in the ocean annually,

with China responsible

1:03:551:03:57

for around a quarter of it.

1:03:571:03:59

The UN has described the issue

as a planetary emergency.

1:03:591:04:02

The White House has put off

a decision on whether to break

1:04:021:04:05

with the international community

and recognise Jerusalem

1:04:051:04:06

as the capital of Israel.

1:04:061:04:09

But a spokesman said

it was a matter of when, not if,

1:04:091:04:12

the US embassy would move

to Jerusalem from Tel Aviv.

1:04:121:04:16

Both Israelis and Palestinians claim

Jerusalem as their capital.

1:04:161:04:20

Arab and Muslim nations

in the region have warned

1:04:201:04:22

against any unilateral decision.

1:04:221:04:29

Meanwhile senior judges

in the United States have ruled that

1:04:291:04:34

President Donald Trump's travel ban

on six mainly Muslim countries can

1:04:341:04:37

go into full effect,

pending legal challenges.

1:04:371:04:40

President Trump originally imposed

the ban on travellers from Chad,

1:04:401:04:42

Iran, Libya, Somalia,

Syria and Yemen in January,

1:04:421:04:44

prompting mass protests

and several legal challenges.

1:04:441:04:50

The Supreme Court has now ruled

by seven votes to two

1:04:501:04:53

in favour of the ban.

1:04:531:04:56

A group of fishermen from the Isle

of Wight found guilty of trying

1:04:561:04:59

to smuggle more than 50 million

of pounds of cocaine

1:04:591:05:02

into the country have lost a key

review of their case.

1:05:021:05:05

The Criminal Cases Review

Commission, which investigates

1:05:051:05:07

miscarriages of justice,

says unless new evidence is found

1:05:071:05:09

there is no real possibility

of overturning the convictions.

1:05:091:05:15

Families and supporters of the group

say they are bitterly disappointed.

1:05:151:05:21

That's a summary of

the latest BBC News.

1:05:211:05:27

More from me at 10.30am.

1:05:271:05:35

Here's some sport now with Jess.

1:05:351:05:42

England need what would be a record

run tests chase if they are to

1:05:421:05:51

salvage the match. Here is what

happened so far.

1:05:511:06:05

James Anderson finished with five

wickets as Australia were bowled out

1:06:051:06:07

for 138 in their second innings.

1:06:071:06:09

That gave England a chance,

they knew they needed a big 354 runs

1:06:091:06:12

to win the second test

and level the Ashes Series.

1:06:121:06:14

They started well -

53 for the first wicket.

1:06:141:06:16

But, Alastair Cook was given out leg

before wicket after Australia

1:06:161:06:19

reviewed the umpires' decision.

1:06:191:06:20

One run later Mark

Stoneman was also out.

1:06:201:06:22

After dinner, James Vince

was caught in the slips.

1:06:221:06:24

Captain Joe Root and

Dawid Malan are out now,

1:06:241:06:26

with England currently on 134-3.

1:06:261:06:32

We'll know later whether Russia will

be banned from the Winter Olympics.

1:06:321:06:35

They missed Rio because of

state-sponsored doping.

1:06:351:06:36

The International Olympic Committee

will meet in Lausanne this evening

1:06:361:06:39

to decide if they've made enough

changes to their set-up

1:06:391:06:41

to compete in South Korea.

1:06:411:06:45

Former British heptathlete

Kelly Sotherton is set to be awarded

1:06:451:06:48

an Olympic bronze medal,

nine years after the

1:06:481:06:50

2008 Beijing Games.

1:06:501:06:51

It comes after Russian heptathlete

Tatyana Chernova failed

1:06:511:06:53

to have a doping ban overturned.

1:06:531:06:55

Sotherton originially

finished fifth in the event,

1:06:551:06:56

but now two of the athletes

above her have had

1:06:561:06:59

their results annulled.

1:06:591:07:00

It's the second Olympic bronze medal

Sotherton has been awarded late,

1:07:001:07:02

after being bumped up to third

in the 2008 4x400m event.

1:07:021:07:12

In snooker, top seed Judd Trump has

been knocked out, beaten by Graeme

1:07:121:07:19

Dott. He spent much of the game in

his seat as his opponent at the next

1:07:191:07:32

six to move into the fourth round.

1:07:321:07:36

Neil Robertson also went out, losing

6-5 to world number 42 Mark Joyce.

1:07:361:07:40

Thank you.

1:07:401:07:41

A group of fishermen from the Isle

of Wight found guilty of trying

1:07:411:07:44

to smuggle more than 50 million

of pounds of cocaine

1:07:441:07:47

into the country have lost a key

review of their case.

1:07:471:07:49

The CCRC - the official

body which investigates

1:07:491:07:51

miscarriages of justice -

says unless new evidence is found

1:07:511:07:54

there is no real possibility

of overturning the convictions.

1:07:541:07:56

Their families and supporters say

they are bitterly disappointed

1:07:561:07:58

and have said they will fight on.

1:07:581:08:07

Our reporter Jim Reed has

this exclusive film.

1:08:071:08:09

Picture of a bag recovered

and brought to police.

1:08:091:08:11

In 2010, a quarter of a tonne

of cocaine was found in the sea

1:08:111:08:14

off the Isle of Wight.

1:08:141:08:20

The police said it had been hidden

there by a group of fishermen

1:08:201:08:23

who had picked it up

from a container

1:08:231:08:25

ship in the Channel.

1:08:251:08:26

But the bags were spotted

by a member of the public

1:08:261:08:28

and these five men were

arrested and convicted.

1:08:281:08:30

All had no serious criminal records.

1:08:301:08:34

Hello?

1:08:341:08:35

Hello, darling, you all right?

1:08:351:08:37

Sue Beere's husband John is now

serving a 24-year sentence.

1:08:371:08:41

24 years in prison.

1:08:411:08:44

What?!

1:08:441:08:45

What do we do now?

1:08:451:08:47

Complete disbelief.

1:08:471:08:51

The men are now being represented

by the first charity

1:08:511:08:54

of its kind in Britain,

specialising in miscarriage

1:08:541:08:56

of justice investigations.

1:08:561:08:58

Our job at this charity is to get

to the truth about a case.

1:08:581:09:02

We represent prisoners as lawyers,

but we investigate cases

1:09:021:09:04

like police officers do.

1:09:041:09:06

The defence team say

new navigational data proves it

1:09:061:09:08

would have been impossible

for the fishing boat to reach

1:09:081:09:10

the drugs in the Channel.

1:09:101:09:14

And they say there are questions

about the testimony of two police

1:09:141:09:17

officers who say they saw something

dropped off the side

1:09:171:09:19

of the boat, near to where

the drugs were later found.

1:09:191:09:26

A retired surveillance officer,

now working for free

1:09:261:09:28

for the defence, thinks that

would have been impossible.

1:09:281:09:34

From my point of view,

they have been convicted on one

1:09:341:09:37

piece of evidence which I do not

believe actually happened.

1:09:371:09:41

But to get a retrial they have

to show the original

1:09:411:09:43

prosecution case was flawed,

and that means finding new evidence

1:09:431:09:46

to put before the CCRC -

1:09:461:09:47

that is the Criminal Cases

Review Commission.

1:09:471:09:50

The people there looking

into the case say there is no

1:09:501:09:52

evidence of police wrongdoing.

1:09:521:09:57

While there was some evidence

they hadn't followed

1:09:571:09:59

all the correct procedures,

I think we tend to the view

1:09:591:10:02

at the CRRC that was a mistake

rather than malice.

1:10:021:10:08

There is no evidence they actually

conspired or anything like that?

1:10:081:10:11

No, nothing at all,

and believe me, we've looked hard,

1:10:111:10:13

and if it was there,

I think we would have found it.

1:10:131:10:16

The CCRC says based on what it has

seen so far, there is not enough

1:10:161:10:19

new evidence to refer the case back

to the Court of Appeal

1:10:191:10:22

for a possible retrial.

1:10:221:10:25

This was the marker buoy.

1:10:251:10:26

For the fisherman and their

families, it's a serious blow,

1:10:261:10:28

but there is still the chance

for some to appeal directly

1:10:281:10:31

to a judge, or of new evidence

emerging which raises fresh doubts

1:10:311:10:33

about their conviction.

1:10:331:10:43

Earlier I spoke to Sue

Beere and Nicky Green -

1:10:431:10:45

the wife and sister of Jon Beere

and Jamie Green, two

1:10:451:10:51

of the men now serving

24-year sentences.

1:10:511:11:00

Also I've been talking

to Emily Bolton,

1:11:001:11:02

the lawyer on the case.

1:11:021:11:03

I began by asking Sue

for her reaction to that decision

1:11:031:11:06

not to refer the case back

to the Court of Appeal.

1:11:061:11:08

Complete disbelief, if I'm honest.

1:11:081:11:09

Based on all the hard

work that Emily's found,

1:11:091:11:12

and all the new bits and pieces,

that I just can't believe

1:11:121:11:14

that it hasn't been -

they haven't taken it into account

1:11:141:11:17

and they're not pressing

forward with it.

1:11:171:11:19

I mean, they have taken everything

into account, you know,

1:11:191:11:21

they have spent three years

reviewing the convictions.

1:11:211:11:23

In the end they described it,

the case as a compelling

1:11:231:11:26

prosecution case of conspiracy

to import cocaine.

1:11:261:11:27

They have looked at everything.

1:11:271:11:29

I feel very strongly

and quite angry that -

1:11:291:11:31

I don't feel they have looked

into things, and taken things

1:11:311:11:33

fully into consideration.

1:11:331:11:35

We believe in the boys 100%.

1:11:351:11:36

It needs to go further.

1:11:361:11:39

It needs to be looked at properly.

1:11:391:11:45

Nicky, how do you react to the fact

that your brother's case has been

1:11:451:11:48

rejected, effectively?

1:11:481:11:49

It cannot go forward to appeal

because the CCRC says

1:11:491:11:51

there is no new evidence,

there's nothing here.

1:11:511:11:54

I feel that they just haven't looked

at the evidence strongly -

1:11:541:11:58

thoroughly enough.

1:11:581:12:00

Why would they not do that?

1:12:001:12:01

They seem to have

skimmed over the top.

1:12:011:12:03

I don't know.

1:12:031:12:04

I really don't know.

1:12:041:12:05

They have spent three years looking

in detail at what has

1:12:051:12:08

been presented to them,

more than 26 interventions,

1:12:081:12:11

if you like, from your lawyer,

which they have looked at carefully,

1:12:111:12:14

because in the end this is about men

being in jail or not,

1:12:141:12:17

so of course they are going to look

at that with diligence.

1:12:171:12:21

I don't believe they have taken

onboard the expert evidence that has

1:12:211:12:24

been presented to them at all,

in any way or form.

1:12:241:12:31

I think they are lacking

in understanding of it.

1:12:311:12:33

But are you feeling that simply

because they haven't reaped

1:12:331:12:36

the conclusion you wanted

them to reach?

1:12:361:12:37

No, I don't think so.

1:12:371:12:39

I think the expert evidence that has

been presented to them shows

1:12:391:12:42

that it was impossible for the boys

to have done what they

1:12:421:12:45

have been accused of.

1:12:451:12:48

Let me bring in Emily Bolton,

your lawyer on this case.

1:12:481:12:53

Essentially, what they have said is,

the new evidence you have found

1:12:531:12:55

so far just isn't enough,

there is nothing in there

1:12:551:12:58

that really points to

a miscarriage of justice here.

1:12:581:13:02

It is preposterous.

1:13:021:13:04

It is unreasonable.

1:13:041:13:05

The jury in this case

were told that the tracks

1:13:051:13:07

of these ships crossed,

and that that meant that drugs had

1:13:071:13:11

been conveyed from one

vessel to the other.

1:13:111:13:15

Our fresh evidence relying on a much

more complete set of data

1:13:151:13:18

than was originally available

shows they didn't.

1:13:181:13:20

That is fundamental to the case.

1:13:201:13:23

The CCRC seem to have

bodged this one.

1:13:231:13:26

Bodging is not what we do

in the British justice system,

1:13:261:13:28

and I have no doubt that the Court

of Appeal, when we bring

1:13:281:13:32

the case to them on behalf

of Sue's husband John,

1:13:321:13:34

will be very interested

in what we have discovered.

1:13:341:13:37

Rather than bodging, what they said

about what you say is new evidence,

1:13:371:13:40

is that even if it is true

that the men's boat was 175 metres

1:13:401:13:46

away from the big container ship,

it doesn't mean they didn't

1:13:461:13:49

try to import cocaine.

1:13:491:13:52

What they are saying there is "Ah,

close enough, good enough",

1:13:521:13:55

and that is not enough.

1:13:551:13:57

Our British justice system requires

certainty, certainty

1:13:571:14:00

on the part of the jury,

and to say close enough

1:14:001:14:02

just doesn't cut it.

1:14:021:14:04

We want a system that is accountable

and accurate, and what has happened

1:14:041:14:07

in this case so far does not give

the public any assurance

1:14:071:14:10

that British justice

is functioning in that way.

1:14:101:14:14

They, of course, say it does,

they have looked carefully,

1:14:141:14:17

they have looked diligently,

and there is just not enough

1:14:171:14:19

here for them to push this forward.

1:14:191:14:23

What you have to understand

about the CCRC is their funding has

1:14:231:14:25

been cut year on year,

and they are working with very

1:14:251:14:28

little resources compared

to what they had in their heyday

1:14:281:14:30

when they were founded

in the late 1990s.

1:14:301:14:34

And they reject that as well,

they say absolutely they have enough

1:14:341:14:37

resources to deal with their case

load, they were extremely

1:14:371:14:40

thorough in their work,

and there was simply,

1:14:401:14:44

at the end of the day,

a very strong case that the people

1:14:441:14:47

on the boat did collect the drugs.

1:14:471:14:49

That defies common-sense.

1:14:491:14:52

If your resources have been cut,

you can do less work.

1:14:521:14:55

One of the things they failed to do

in this case was retain their own

1:14:551:14:59

experts to examine the expert

work we have presented.

1:14:591:15:01

For that reason they have

come to the erroneous

1:15:011:15:03

conclusions they have reached.

1:15:031:15:04

So what is your next

course of action?

1:15:041:15:06

Next course of action is to carry

on the fight, keep it going,

1:15:061:15:09

and go to the Appeal Court

in John's name.

1:15:091:15:18

Emily can enlarge more

on the legal side of it.

1:15:181:15:21

So how that works is

the Criminal Cases Review Commission

1:15:211:15:23

has rejected the application

on behalf of Jamie Green,

1:15:231:15:29

Nicky's brother and the two other

applicants, but Jon Beere

1:15:291:15:32

and another defendant, Dan Payne,

didn't do an appeal originally

1:15:321:15:34

on their conviction,

so they can go straight

1:15:341:15:36

to the Court of Appeal.

1:15:361:15:39

The reason they didn't appeal

previously was they were told

1:15:391:15:42

they would benefit from from Jamie's

appeal and didn't need to do

1:15:421:15:45

it in their own names.

1:15:451:15:46

So we can make an application

for leave to the Court of Appeal,

1:15:461:15:50

but we will also be looking very

carefully at the possibility

1:15:501:15:52

of a judicial review

of what the CCRC has done here,

1:15:521:15:58

because it's quite clear to us

that the way they have

1:15:581:16:00

gone about that this

review is unreasonable.

1:16:001:16:02

Is it fair to say you are never

going to say they have done it well

1:16:021:16:06

enough because they didn't reach

the conclusion you

1:16:061:16:08

wanted them to reach?

1:16:081:16:09

Any wrongful conviction,

and I have been working

1:16:091:16:11

in this area for 20 years,

in the United States

1:16:111:16:13

as well as the United Kingdom,

any wrongful conviction takes a long

1:16:131:16:18

time to get to the bottom of,

so I don't think that we have got

1:16:181:16:22

to the bottom of this yet.

1:16:221:16:23

No-one has looked at the complete

police file, those files have

1:16:231:16:26

been kept in secret.

1:16:261:16:27

Let me ask you both about the impact

on you and your children,

1:16:271:16:30

you have a 22-year-old,

a 14-year-old and an 11-year-old,

1:16:301:16:32

the impact on the family

as another year passes,

1:16:321:16:35

with your husband, with their father

in jail, for something

1:16:351:16:37

you are adamant he didn't do.

1:16:371:16:39

And he is adamant he didn't do.

1:16:391:16:40

Yes.

1:16:401:16:42

It's just - we have had

to adapt, obviously.

1:16:421:16:45

It has been almost seven years now,

but as the years go

1:16:451:16:49

on it's getting harder and harder.

1:16:491:16:50

It doesn't get any easier,

financially, emotionally.

1:16:501:16:53

It's just tough.

1:16:531:16:55

The children are amazing,

absolutely fantastic,

1:16:551:16:57

and I think it's made us all very

strong as a family,

1:16:571:17:00

but we just want him home.

1:17:001:17:04

You know, let us get

this sorted out.

1:17:041:17:07

Let us get to it the Appeal Court,

let's get some common-sense

1:17:071:17:10

going on here, and get them all home

where they should be with us.

1:17:101:17:13

And let me ask you, Nicky,

about the impact on your family,

1:17:131:17:17

of your brother being in prison,

and another year passing.

1:17:171:17:23

Again, like Sue, you're saying

he has done nothing wrong,

1:17:231:17:27

it's a miscarriage of

justice, and in that time,

1:17:271:17:29

while he has been jail,

he has lost his wife to cancer.

1:17:291:17:32

Yes, his wife, who is also called

Nicky, died in late 2015.

1:17:321:17:39

Jamie's three children, you know,

are almost shellshocked

1:17:391:17:41

about this whole thing.

1:17:411:17:45

Their mother sadly died of cancer

after a long fight with cancer.

1:17:451:17:48

You know, they effectively have

lost both their parents.

1:17:481:17:56

They're older, they're building

their own lives, but it is a huge,

1:17:561:17:58

huge gap left in their lives.

1:17:581:18:00

And they just want this resolved.

1:18:001:18:05

I mean, the stuff we're putting

forward is so strong, but you know,

1:18:051:18:08

the CCRC just don't seem

to be grasping it.

1:18:081:18:16

That was Sue Beere and Nicky Green,

the wife and sister of Jon Beere

1:18:161:18:19

and Jamie Green, two of the men now

serving 24 year sentences

1:18:191:18:23

and Emily Bolton,

the lawyer on the case.

1:18:231:18:32

Kezia Dugdale tells us it was worth

it after she was booted out of the

1:18:391:18:47

I'm A Celebrity jungle.

1:18:471:18:50

The Cabinet is meeting this morning

after the Prime Minister returned

1:18:501:18:53

from Brussels last night without

a deal to advance Brexit talks.

1:18:531:18:55

The Democratic Unionist Party

rejected a proposed solution

1:18:551:18:57

to avoid a hard border

between Northern Ireland

1:18:571:18:59

and the Republic.

1:18:591:19:00

The sticking point is over

the Northern Ireland

1:19:001:19:02

border issue and something

called "regulatory alignment".

1:19:021:19:05

It's a mouthful -

regulatory alignment -

1:19:061:19:10

and it's meant to be,

a phrase so vague

1:19:101:19:17

it was hoped it would

keep everyone happy.

1:19:171:19:19

Only it seems to have left

almost everyone unhappy.

1:19:191:19:21

So what is it meant to mean?

1:19:211:19:23

Well, it's meant to signal

that existing customs rules

1:19:231:19:25

between Northern Ireland and Ireland

will stay roughly

1:19:251:19:27

the same after Brexit.

1:19:271:19:32

In other words, there'd be no

new border checks, customs controls,

1:19:321:19:35

or tiresome extra paperwork.

1:19:351:19:36

Sounds simple - if only!

1:19:361:19:37

Because all sides have

rather different takes

1:19:371:19:42

on regulatory alignment.

1:19:421:19:47

To the Irish Government,

it means there'll be

1:19:471:19:48

no need for a border

between North and South.

1:19:481:19:51

To the British Government,

it means there'll only be

1:19:511:19:54

a light-touch border

with limited customs checks.

1:19:541:19:57

To the DUP, however,

it means Northern Ireland risks

1:19:571:19:59

being hived off from

the rest of the UK.

1:19:591:20:07

Their fear that regulatory alignment

is being used by some in Dublin

1:20:071:20:10

to pave the way for

a united Ireland.

1:20:101:20:12

So what happens now?

1:20:121:20:15

Well, someone is going to have

to come up with a new phrase -

1:20:151:20:18

and perhaps we'll all

just have to forget

1:20:181:20:20

about regulatory alignment.

1:20:201:20:23

With talks stalling, tempers are

fraying as our interview

1:20:301:20:34

demonstrates.

I think it was a

difficult day for her and today is

1:20:341:20:38

snore day and she will be speaking

to the DUP...

Did she not speak to

1:20:381:20:42

them ahead of that lunch?

Well,

you're going to have to ask people

1:20:421:20:45

in Downing Street and not me, but

clearly there was a misunderstanding

1:20:451:20:50

as between the Government's position

and the DUP. That has got...

Sorry

1:20:501:20:55

to interrupt. How is that possible?

How could there be a

1:20:551:21:00

misunderstanding? What do you mean?

Quite clearly, Downing Street and

1:21:001:21:04

the DUP were not on the same page so

far as this is concerned.

And how is

1:21:041:21:09

this possible?

I'm frayed I'm not

the person to ask.

Dear oh dear.

The

1:21:091:21:14

person to ask is the Government.

Dear oh dear.

I can hear Mr Russell

1:21:141:21:21

in the background. It has probably

been the least productive of anyone

1:21:211:21:25

that I have met.

We are being led to

disaster by people like David Jones

1:21:251:21:32

who haven't got a clue.

Did the DUP

do the right thing, David Jones?

1:21:321:21:38

Well, they certainly did in their

terms. Clearly, they have got a duty

1:21:381:21:42

to their electors in Northern

Ireland and they want to make sure

1:21:421:21:46

that whatever arrangements are put

in place are satisfactory to the

1:21:461:21:50

electors.

Why do you think Mrs May

thought it would be acceptable to

1:21:501:21:54

effectively stay in the single

market and the customs union in all

1:21:541:21:58

but name in Northern Ireland?

Well,

again, I'm not the person to ask

1:21:581:22:02

because the people who ask are the

people, of course, who were advising

1:22:021:22:06

Mrs May during the course of the

negotiations.

Do you think it's a

1:22:061:22:09

good idea?

Well, clearly, there

should have been clarity between the

1:22:091:22:12

Government and the DUP...

No, sure,

of course, there should, but the

1:22:121:22:17

principle of what was being

suggested, do you back that?

The

1:22:171:22:19

principle of what has been

suggested, no, I think, I think,

1:22:191:22:23

it's extremely difficult to see how

you can have wholly separate

1:22:231:22:27

arrangements for Northern Ireland as

against the rest of the UK. But

1:22:271:22:31

nevertheless, of course, Northern

Ireland has always been a very

1:22:311:22:34

special case.

Final thought from you

on what's going to happen now?

Well,

1:22:341:22:39

I suffered David Jones for a year on

the joint ministerial committee. He

1:22:391:22:43

doesn't know what he's talking

about. He's making a mess of it. In

1:22:431:22:47

the name of god stop this nonsense

because it is causing disaster and

1:22:471:22:52

we are being led to disaster by

people like David Jones.

Mr Russell

1:22:521:22:57

was probably the biggest impediment

between the Government and the

1:22:571:23:02

devolved administrations and frankly

he has just displayed why he is a

1:23:021:23:05

danger to the whole process of

Brexit.

This is just nonsense.

OK.

1:23:051:23:10

I'm going to leave it there.

It's

impossible.

Thank you for your time,

1:23:101:23:14

I appreciate it. David Jones,

Conservative Party MP and former

1:23:141:23:18

Brexit minister and Michael Russell

of the SNP. Thank you.

1:23:181:23:24

Mike Holden on Twitter says, "It is

a good job you kept those two apart,

1:23:241:23:28

they would have been scrapping on

the floor. Is there any chance of

1:23:281:23:33

getting them in the studio?"

1:23:331:23:40

Life in the seas risks irreparable

damage from a rising

1:23:411:23:43

tide of plastic waste.

1:23:431:23:47

That's according to the UN oceans

chief who is warning governments,

1:23:471:23:50

firms and individual people must act

far more quickly to halt

1:23:501:23:52

plastic pollution.

1:23:521:23:53

It comes ahead of a UN environment

summit in Nairobi in Kenya

1:23:531:23:56

with plans being discussed

on a legal treaty banning plastic

1:23:561:23:59

waste from entering the sea.

1:23:591:24:01

So let's take a look

at why this matters,

1:24:011:24:03

and how bad a problem it's become.

1:24:031:24:09

By 2050, there will be more plastic

than fish in the sea,

1:24:091:24:13

according to the World

Economic Forum.

1:24:131:24:15

80% of all the litter

in the ocean is plastic.

1:24:151:24:19

Last year, more than seven billion

people worldwide produced over

1:24:191:24:22

300 million tonnes of plastic.

1:24:221:24:28

Ships are banned from dumping

plastic overboard, but there's no

1:24:281:24:33

international law against plastics

flooding into the sea from the land.

1:24:331:24:35

China, Thailand, Indonesia

and the Philippines are responsible

1:24:351:24:37

for much of the world's

ocean plastic pollution.

1:24:371:24:41

As well as bottles, drinking straws,

micro beads and polystyrene boxes,

1:24:411:24:45

it's estimated there are 640,000

tonnes of abandoned fishing

1:24:451:24:47

nets on the ocean floor.

1:24:471:24:52

There are severe consequences

for marine animals,

1:24:521:24:55

who choke on the plastic

and have their habitats destroyed.

1:24:551:24:59

Sunlight breaks the plastic

into small places, which fish

1:24:591:25:02

and sea birds mistake

for food and ingest.

1:25:021:25:06

And that threatens the food

supply for humans as well.

1:25:061:25:11

Campaigners want a Paris

climate-style deal,

1:25:111:25:13

with countries agreeing

long-term goals and zero-tolerance.

1:25:131:25:19

The issue was highlighted in Blue

Planet II.

1:25:261:25:35

This clip led to loads of you

promising to cut down on the

1:25:351:25:39

plastics you use.

A pod of short finned pilot whales.

1:25:391:25:52

They live together in what are

perhaps the most closely knit of

1:25:521:25:56

families in the whole ocean.

1:25:561:26:07

Today, in the Atlantic waters off

Europe, as elsewhere, they have to

1:26:071:26:11

share the ocean with plastic.

1:26:111:26:21

A mother is holding her newborn

young. It's dead.

1:26:241:26:39

She is reluctant to let it go and

has been carrying it around for many

1:26:441:26:48

days.

1:26:481:26:58

Let's talk to Anja Rubik. In nou

1:27:051:27:20

roby

1:27:201:27:22

we have got another guest.

1:27:221:27:24

You have seen the work that's going

on. How serious is this problem?

It

1:27:241:27:27

is serious. I'm excited we are

addressing this really big issue and

1:27:271:27:34

here we spoke about the impact of

plastic in the oceans, but we have

1:27:341:27:38

to come to the terms that plastic is

a design failure and once it is

1:27:381:27:44

created it never disappears. It just

dissolves into smaller pieces, it is

1:27:441:27:49

mixed in the plankton and swallowed

by fish. It is everywhere. It is in

1:27:491:27:53

the atmosphere. It is incredibly

harmful to people as well. I'm very

1:27:531:27:58

excited that finally we are

addressing this really big issue

1:27:581:28:03

because it has past the point of

raising awareness or symbolic

1:28:031:28:06

actions. It is about finding

solutions that scale fast and the

1:28:061:28:12

solution is, I like working with

PARLY. It is a void and redesign.

1:28:121:28:23

The key right now is to create a new

generation of materials that we

1:28:231:28:28

could use and put pressure on

governments and brands out there to

1:28:281:28:32

create new materials.

Sure. Let me

bring in the United Nations

1:28:321:28:37

representative. What kind of damage

is plastic doing in our oceans?

It's

1:28:371:28:42

really very wide ranging. At the

moment you're looking at about eight

1:28:421:28:46

million tonnes of plastic going into

the sea every year. That's the

1:28:461:28:51

equivalent of one full garbage truck

of plastic right into the ocean

1:28:511:28:55

every minute. So, the volumes are

really staggering. The most obvious

1:28:551:28:59

ones are things like you saw on the

film clips a moment ago, you get

1:28:591:29:04

animals tangled, they might ingest

it and get hurt. They might die or

1:29:041:29:09

their lives are just really

significantly impacted. The

1:29:091:29:12

challenge with this is, it's more

than the individual animals. You

1:29:121:29:17

hurt the ecosystems and how they

function which ultimately come back

1:29:171:29:20

to haunt us in terms of reduced

ecosystems services, our fisheries

1:29:201:29:26

are going to be challenged by this

issue. Partly by plastic getting

1:29:261:29:32

stuck in propellers and in fishing

gear, but partly by the reduction of

1:29:321:29:36

quality of the catch and then of

course, the impacts on people

1:29:361:29:40

through the seafood they eat. So it

cuts across all of our society. The

1:29:401:29:46

impacts cut across all our society

just as much as the use of plastic

1:29:461:29:50

cuts across all our society.

Is it

too late?

Oh, by no means too late.

1:29:501:29:55

If we look at how quickly we've

created the problem, we should

1:29:551:30:00

perhaps retain a degree of optimism

about being able to solve it. Since

1:30:001:30:06

1960, plastic production has grown

20 fold which is a huge rise and

1:30:061:30:10

that is, of course, a combination of

lifestyle change, economic growth

1:30:101:30:15

and so on. We haven't kept pace with

the regulatory frameworks. That is

1:30:151:30:20

very clear and our economic sort of

system also hasn't quite kept pace

1:30:201:30:27

with handling a large degree of what

is deemed waste when it could

1:30:271:30:31

potentially are turned into a

resource. I think there-in lies the

1:30:311:30:36

solution.

OK, but in terms of the

global community coming together and

1:30:361:30:39

banning plastics from being able to

reach our oceans, what has to happen

1:30:391:30:48

at this UN

1:30:481:30:58

There are many things that need to

happen. The establish common

1:30:581:31:05

priorities and pathways forward. In

that sense we can draw parallels to

1:31:051:31:09

the climate change negotiations, and

similar work perhaps on the of it

1:31:091:31:15

pace might seem gradual and slow but

fundamentally it will change how we

1:31:151:31:21

approach this. At the same time

let's be frank about the need for

1:31:211:31:26

changed behaviour across society.

Individuals can already now do many

1:31:261:31:31

things about their own plastic

consumption and disposal. That will

1:31:311:31:35

start dealing with the problem. Many

companies are doing lots about

1:31:351:31:41

innovation in terms of new plastics

and how we deal with plastics, and

1:31:411:31:45

most importantly in closing the loop

so waste is no longer waste and we

1:31:451:31:53

create a more circular economy

around plastics and that will

1:31:531:31:57

ultimately be the solution.

Have you

been able to cut down on your

1:31:571:32:03

personal use of plastic?

I try. The

most basic thing you can do is don't

1:32:031:32:11

use drinking straws, if London could

come together and stop using them,

1:32:111:32:15

that would have a huge impact. If

you go on holiday and see plastic on

1:32:151:32:21

the beach, pick it up, don't leave

it lying there. The oceans are

1:32:211:32:28

incredibly important to life. Every

second breath we take, the oxygen

1:32:281:32:33

comes from the oceans. I'd have to

disagree because it's impossible to

1:32:331:32:38

contain the circle, the loop of

plastic because plastic breaks down

1:32:381:32:43

into smaller pieces. It's not about

maintaining that but getting rid of

1:32:431:32:49

plastic completely, I know that's a

very big dream, but especially stop

1:32:491:32:53

creating plastic. That is our

biggest mistake.

Thanks for speaking

1:32:531:32:59

in English because I don't speak

your language, so thank you! Thank

1:32:591:33:11

you to both my guests.

1:33:111:33:12

Still to come.

1:33:121:33:21

We'll be hearing from

Kezia Dugdale - former leader

1:33:211:33:23

of Scottish Labour -

who was voted out of

1:33:231:33:25

I'm a Celebrity on why

1:33:251:33:27

she has no regrets

on appearing in the show.

1:33:271:33:29

Do you ever

miss GP appointments?

1:33:291:33:35

According to new research young men

from a disadvantaged background

1:33:351:33:37

are the worst culprits and more

likely to skip out on appointments.

1:33:371:33:40

We'll find out why they do it.

1:33:401:33:42

Time for the latest

news - here's Ben.

1:33:421:33:44

Theresa May is meeting her cabinet

after returning from Brussels last

1:33:441:33:47

night with no deal to push forward

the Brexit talks.

1:33:471:33:49

Negotiations came to a halt

after the DUP, who support

1:33:491:33:51

the Conservative government,

said it would not accept a deal

1:33:511:33:54

which saw Northern Ireland treated

differently from the rest of the UK.

1:33:541:33:57

But ministers insist

they are close to an agreement.

1:33:571:34:01

Over the last weeks we have made

tremendous steps forward. We are

1:34:011:34:05

very close but not there yet.

1:34:051:34:07

A total ban on plastic

waste entering the ocean

1:34:071:34:10

is being considered by environment

ministers from around the world

1:34:101:34:12

at a UN meeting in the Kenyan

capital Nairobi this week.

1:34:121:34:15

More than 8 million tonnes

of plastic is dumped

1:34:151:34:17

in the ocean annually,

with China responsible

1:34:171:34:18

for around a quarter of it.

1:34:181:34:23

The UN has described the issue

as a planetary emergency.

1:34:231:34:31

A group of fishermen from the Isle

of Wight found guilty of trying

1:34:311:34:39

to smuggle more than

£50 million of cocaine

1:34:391:34:41

into the country have lost a key

review of their case.

1:34:411:34:44

The Criminal Cases Review Commission

- which investigates

1:34:441:34:46

miscarriages of justice -

says unless new evidence is found

1:34:461:34:48

there is no real possibility

of overturning the convictions.

1:34:481:34:50

Families and supporters of the group

say they are bitterly disappointed.

1:34:501:34:53

That's a summary of

the latest BBC News.

1:34:531:34:59

Here's some sport now with Jessica.

1:34:591:35:03

England need 354 runs to win the

second Ashes Test against Australia.

1:35:031:35:11

They have lost three wickets

but a 50 from Captain Joe Root has

1:35:111:35:15

taken them past 150.

1:35:151:35:16

In fact, they are now on 160- free.

-- 160-3.

1:35:161:35:32

The International Olympic Committee

will decide later whether to ban

1:35:321:35:34

Russia from the Winter Olympics in

February.

1:35:341:35:36

They missed the Rio Games

because of state-sponsored doping.

1:35:361:35:38

The IOC will meet in Lausanne this

evening to decide if Russia have

1:35:381:35:41

made enough changes to their set-up

to compete in South Korea.

1:35:411:35:44

Nine years late but Britain's Kelly

Sotherton is to be awarded a bronze

1:35:441:35:47

medal from the 2008 Olympic Games.

1:35:471:35:48

It comes after Russian heptathlete

Tatyana Chernova lost an appeal

1:35:481:35:50

against a doping violation.

1:35:501:35:52

And top seed Judd Trump has been

knocked out of the UK

1:35:521:35:54

Snooker Championship in York.

1:35:541:35:55

The world number two was beaten six

frames to two in the third

1:35:551:35:58

round by Graeme Dott.

1:35:581:36:00

That's all your sport. Let's get

more now on the Brexit talks.

1:36:001:36:14

This morning Scotland's first

minister SNP leader Nicola Sturgeon

1:36:211:36:23

has said that this could be a moment

for the opposition to push

1:36:231:36:26

to keep the whole of the UK

in the single market

1:36:261:36:28

and customs union.

1:36:281:36:29

Saying "it needs Labour

to get its act together.

1:36:291:36:32

How about it @jeremycorbyn?"

1:36:321:36:33

Let's speak now to Lord Peter Hain,

Labour's former Secretary of State

1:36:331:36:36

for Northern Ireland.

1:36:361:36:37

Good morning. Is Labour ready?

I

hope so but this is not a party

1:36:371:36:44

issue primarily, it's a question of

the future of the island of Ireland

1:36:441:36:48

and indeed the whole of the UK

because what has been revealed, and

1:36:481:36:53

frankly I'm astonished anyone was

surprised at the breakdown

1:36:531:36:56

yesterday, is that you cannot

resolve the Irish border conundrum

1:36:561:37:01

unless you maintain, and free

trading and Customs area across

1:37:011:37:07

their border both sides, as has

existed for a long time. And if,

1:37:071:37:15

again, I'm amazed anybody was

surprised, if unionists, quite

1:37:151:37:19

understandably from their point of

view in Ireland, say fine, but we

1:37:191:37:24

are not having Northern Ireland

treated differently from the rest of

1:37:241:37:29

the UK, and that's always been their

position, the DUP are in coalition

1:37:291:37:34

propping up Theresa May and why she

didn't know that I have no idea,

1:37:341:37:39

then that suggests... I can't see

any alternative that the whole of

1:37:391:37:43

the UK is in the same customs and

trading area as not just the Irish

1:37:431:37:48

Republic but it follows with the

rest of Europe.

Just to be clear,

1:37:481:37:54

you are saying Northern Ireland,

Scotland, England and Wales have to

1:37:541:37:59

stay in the single market/ customs

union in order to maintain the

1:37:591:38:03

frictionless border, is that what

you are saying?

Yes, I am.

But you

1:38:031:38:10

know that's not acceptable to the

governing party.

What we are seeing

1:38:101:38:15

is dogmatism, rigidity and bloody

mindedness.

They would reject that

1:38:151:38:23

and say it's the only way to control

immigration and negotiate trade

1:38:231:38:27

deals with big countries around the

world.

But the single market and

1:38:271:38:34

Customs union have deals already

which we are part of, which we are

1:38:341:38:38

about to turn our back on, with 60

other countries around the world.

I

1:38:381:38:44

know, but it's a way of controlling

immigration and we don't have to

1:38:441:38:48

have free movement of goods and

people.

But what hasn't been

1:38:481:38:53

explained to people, including

perhaps watching this programme, is

1:38:531:38:57

that if you want to have the same

frictionless border is not just

1:38:571:39:02

across the island of Ireland which

is the crucial thing at the

1:39:021:39:15

moment but also across into the

continent of Europe, and why

1:39:151:39:18

wouldn't we, this is our biggest

trading partner by far, half our

1:39:181:39:20

trade is done there, not just goods

and cars being imported but also

1:39:201:39:24

services and they are terribly

important to our economy. If you

1:39:241:39:27

want to keep that - and who

wouldn't, frankly, because otherwise

1:39:271:39:33

jobs and the economy will be damaged

and businesses will go bankrupt, not

1:39:331:39:37

just in the island of Ireland but

Britain as a whole - if you want to

1:39:371:39:42

keep that, you have got to have a

deal that maintains the frictionless

1:39:421:39:46

border with the continent as well as

across Ireland and that requires

1:39:461:39:56

customs and trading arrangements and

I don't understand how anybody wants

1:39:561:40:01

that to be different.

Your party

simply wants access to the single

1:40:011:40:07

market, not to stay in it.

What we

have said is we want to stay in the

1:40:071:40:12

single market and Customs union for

the transitional phase. After March

1:40:121:40:19

2019, there will then be a year or

two, maybe longer in which we will

1:40:191:40:25

be negotiating our trade

relationship. It would be madness to

1:40:251:40:29

step over the cliffs in March 2019

having exited the European Union

1:40:291:40:35

into the unknown, which would be

hugely damaging to Britain and cause

1:40:351:40:39

a real crisis. Labour's position is

we stay in for that period, however

1:40:391:40:45

long it takes to negotiate a new

trading arrangements.

Remind my

1:40:451:40:51

audience which way you voted in the

EU referendum.

I voted to remain,

1:40:511:40:58

I've never hidden that. What I

remind you about that ballot paper

1:40:581:41:03

and that referendum is nowhere on

the ballot paper, and everybody will

1:41:031:41:07

confirm what I'm saying, did it

asked the question, "Do you want to

1:41:071:41:12

stay in the single market and

Customs union?". You can leave the

1:41:121:41:19

agricultural policy, you can leave

comment and defence arrangements,

1:41:191:41:23

you can stop sending MPs to

Brussels, you can stop attending the

1:41:231:41:28

councils of Minister meetings, all

of that. A lot of European business

1:41:281:41:32

you could leave and still say, like

Norway does, which is not in the EU

1:41:321:41:39

but is in the single market, or

Turkey, which is in the customs

1:41:391:41:44

union, so why would we be saying not

just in respect of Northern Ireland

1:41:441:41:49

but with respect to Britain, why

would we turn our back on

1:41:491:41:58

frictionless trade? Things like when

we go on holiday to France or

1:41:581:42:03

wherever it is in the rest of

Europe, we can use our phones now on

1:42:031:42:08

the same plan we have in Britain

with no extra roaming charges

1:42:081:42:13

because of the European Union. We

can keep that too, otherwise we have

1:42:131:42:18

to try to negotiate to keep that and

there is no prospect of us

1:42:181:42:23

necessarily being able to do that.

As the reality against to break upon

1:42:231:42:29

people's practical appreciation, I

think respecting the referendum

1:42:291:42:33

results but staying in the common

trading and customs arrangements

1:42:331:42:36

seems to me to be practical common

sense. Stop the dogma, stop getting

1:42:361:42:43

into trenches and find solutions. I

have negotiated in Northern Ireland

1:42:431:42:47

and helped negotiate the settlement

that brought the old enemies into

1:42:471:42:51

power. You cannot be rigid. Stick to

your principles, yes, but the

1:42:511:42:57

creative and I think Theresa May

found yesterday the unwillingness to

1:42:571:43:02

be creative got her into deep

trouble.

Thank you very much. Peter

1:43:021:43:08

Hain.

1:43:081:43:12

Kezia Dugdale, the former

Scottish Labour leader,

1:43:121:43:15

has insisted she has no regrets over

appearing on I'm A Celebrity

1:43:151:43:18

and becoming the second contestant

to be evicted from the programme.

1:43:181:43:21

She entered the ITV show

saying she wanted a chance

1:43:211:43:24

to talk about politics but that

didn't really go to plan.

1:43:241:43:28

Oh, my God, they've got claws!

1:43:281:43:30

They're crabs!

1:43:301:43:31

It's much more mentally tough

than I had appreciated.

1:43:311:43:33

Oh, my God, wow!

1:43:331:43:34

Rice and beans are delicious,

said no-one ever.

1:43:341:43:37

That's grim.

1:43:371:43:39

Stuff just needs to get done.

1:43:391:43:40

It's frustrating me.

1:43:401:43:42

Man make fire -

that's their attitude.

1:43:421:43:43

I want to help you.

1:43:431:43:45

I don't want your help.

1:43:451:43:46

Ding, ding, ding!

1:43:461:43:47

Why don't you hate him?

1:43:471:43:49

I did it!

1:43:491:43:50

You've got to pick your battles

here in the jungle.

1:43:501:43:57

During her 11 days in the jungle,

she drank a milkshake of pig anuses.

1:43:571:44:13

And crawled through fish guts

1:44:131:44:17

in a tank labelled Sickola Sturgeon

after Scotland's first minister,

1:44:171:44:19

Nicola Sturgeon

before being evicted.

1:44:191:44:21

The second person to leave

1:44:211:44:22

I'm A Celebrity Get Me Out

Of Here 2017 is...

1:44:221:44:25

Kez.

1:44:251:44:26

Well done, Kez, we'll see

you across the bridge in a minute.

1:44:261:44:29

Have a good day, everyone.

1:44:291:44:30

Cheers, guys.

1:44:301:44:31

Thank you.

1:44:311:44:32

The Milky Bar is in

the front of my bag.

1:44:321:44:34

It's been a pleasure.

1:44:341:44:36

Speaking to us from Australia,

Kezia Dugdale acknowledged

1:44:361:44:37

that she has a bit of work to do

to make amends but that it was

1:44:371:44:41

definitely worth it.

1:44:411:44:46

I'm A Celebrity was a huge

entertainment programme watched by

1:44:461:44:51

millions of people across the UK,

largely young people who are least

1:44:511:44:56

likely to engage in politics. It was

important to me to do two things,

1:44:561:45:02

firstly to show there are young,

decent people in politics, they are

1:45:021:45:05

not all men in their latter years

with a certain outlook on life and

1:45:051:45:11

secondly I wanted to show what

strong women can do because it's a

1:45:111:45:15

brutal environment in the jungle. I

had some clashes over what our

1:45:151:45:20

traditional male jobs like building

fires and I think it's important for

1:45:201:45:24

people to see women step up and do

things like that.

To build fires? Do

1:45:241:45:30

you really think you prospered in

there?

I haven't seen all the

1:45:301:45:36

programme but I worked hard, in the

camp, taking on challenges, doing

1:45:361:45:41

the maintenance and jobs in camp and

I did it with a smile on my face and

1:45:411:45:52

a good heart. I had a very

interesting and long conversations

1:45:521:45:55

with other camp mates.

Don't you

think you will only be remembered

1:45:551:45:58

for your time in the jungle for

drinking a milkshake of pig anuses.

1:45:581:46:09

You might not like that very much,

but it is considered light

1:46:091:46:13

entertainment and it is watched by

millions of people...

It was

1:46:131:46:16

fantastic to watch. It was fantastic

entertainment. I'm saying that's all

1:46:161:46:22

you will be remembered for?

I don't

accept that. It is important people

1:46:221:46:27

see politicians sometimes make light

of themselves. I have spent the last

1:46:271:46:32

15 years of my life devoted to the

Labour Party and talking about

1:46:321:46:36

fairness and equality and workers'

rights and I will continue to do

1:46:361:46:39

that and this programme allows me to

do that more of the future and

1:46:391:46:43

that's why I took that jump and made

that gamble.

So you will be doing

1:46:431:46:47

more reality TV in the future?

No,

that's not what I'm saying, I'm able

1:46:471:46:52

to use the UK profile to talk more

about politics and the big issues of

1:46:521:46:59

the day.

Let's talk about the Labour Party

1:46:591:47:01

then because you face an internal

inquiry from Scottish Labour when

1:47:011:47:04

you get back to Edinburgh because

you agreed to take part in the

1:47:041:47:08

programme without formal approval

from party officials to be absent

1:47:081:47:10

from the Scottish Parliament? Are

you ready for that? What are you

1:47:101:47:14

expecting?

I am, Victoria, but it is

more complicated than that. It was

1:47:141:47:19

hard to seek approval because there

was no leader of the Labour Party at

1:47:191:47:22

the time. So, I approached both of

the leadership contenders at the

1:47:221:47:25

time. I told them that I I planned

to go away for three weeks to go

1:47:251:47:29

abroad and do something to raise a

bit of money for charity. I couldn't

1:47:291:47:33

say more than that because of the

nature of the contract. I do

1:47:331:47:37

understand that it is controversial.

I do understand that there are lots

1:47:371:47:39

of people at home that are unhappy

that I have taken part in the

1:47:391:47:43

programme and I have got a bit of

work to do to make amends, but

1:47:431:47:46

please don't doubt the fact that I

am devoted to the Labour Party. I

1:47:461:47:49

love my job and I think I'm better

placed to do it for a long time now,

1:47:491:47:53

having had this experience.

OK. I

will ask you about making amends in

1:47:531:47:56

a moment.

Did you stand down as leader of

1:47:561:48:00

Scottish Labour in order to go into

the jungle?

Categorically not. I

1:48:001:48:05

wasn't even approached to do the

programme until after I stood down.

1:48:051:48:08

How much did you get paid for

appearing in the jungle and how much

1:48:081:48:11

of that fee are you keeping?

I'm not allowed it talk about that

1:48:111:48:16

just now because of the nature of my

contract with ITV. Naturally as a

1:48:161:48:20

politician I will have to declare

any earnings thave got from the

1:48:201:48:23

programme through the normal

processes and of course, I will do

1:48:231:48:26

that. I haven't been paid my full

fee yet for from ITV so the minute

1:48:261:48:31

that my contract allows me to do

that detail, I will do that detail.

1:48:311:48:34

I should say that I will dmaout a

proportion of my salary to charity

1:48:341:48:38

and I'm thinking just now which

charities will benefit as a cons qen

1:48:381:48:43

of that. I donated my salary before

I left to the Rock Trust which

1:48:431:48:49

supports vulnerable young people in

Edinburgh at risk of homelessness so

1:48:491:48:52

it will be to charities like that I

support and that I will be donating

1:48:521:48:59

money to.

What proportion of the fee

are you donating and what proportion

1:48:591:49:05

are you keeping?

I'm not allowed to

talk about money.

You can tell me

1:49:051:49:11

what proportion you are keeping and

what proportion you are donating?

I

1:49:111:49:14

am having to be careful about the

words I'm using because of the

1:49:141:49:19

nature of my salary.

Is it 10%, 50%?

Victoria, I can't answer that for a

1:49:191:49:26

contractual reasons, but I will say

to you, over the past few years I

1:49:261:49:29

have donated over £20,000 of

external earnings to charities. I

1:49:291:49:32

have a record for doing that. Most

notably motor neurone disease in

1:49:321:49:36

Scotland. There are lots of

politicians have external earnings

1:49:361:49:40

that don't give anything to charity.

I will do my bit. There is no doubt

1:49:401:49:44

about that and I have a record of

having done that in the past.

Did

1:49:441:49:49

you fall for Boris Johnson's father,

Stanley?

Did you fall for him?

Yes.

1:49:491:49:56

In a romantic fashion?

In a friendly

affectionate way?

I spent the first

1:49:561:50:02

couple of days angry at him because

when I looked at him, he is so alike

1:50:021:50:07

his son, Boris Johnson and his

visual looks and his mannerisms and

1:50:071:50:12

I'm angry at Boris Johnson for a

number of different reasons so I

1:50:121:50:15

didn't think I would like or get on

with Stanley at all. We did have

1:50:151:50:19

heated exchanges about certain

issues including immigration and

1:50:191:50:22

Brexit. But I can't help but have

respect for a man who has put

1:50:221:50:27

himself into some very difficult

circumstances in the jungle age 77,

1:50:271:50:31

a man that's written countless books

and that climbed mount kill man

1:50:311:50:36

Jarrow twice and had a very

interesting life and it would be

1:50:361:50:40

rude and inappropriate for me not to

have respect for a man that lived a

1:50:401:50:44

life like that.

What's your view on

strawberrygate?

I was shocked when I

1:50:441:50:49

came out of the jungle just to see

the truth of strawberrygate. It

1:50:491:50:56

really was all Amir's idea and Amir

ate most of the straw berries and

1:50:561:51:03

told a lot of porkies when I went

back to the camp afterwards. His dad

1:51:031:51:08

is not happy about him for that

because he doesn't think that's his

1:51:081:51:11

boy or how he would behave. I met

and spoke with his dad yesterday.

1:51:111:51:16

But it's easily the most

controversial thing that happened

1:51:161:51:19

within the camp during the time of

the programme.

1:51:191:51:24

Some people think that Iain Lay is

faking his desire to go home in

1:51:241:51:28

order to stay in. What's your view?

I don't accept that. I like Iain Lay

1:51:281:51:35

very much and I hope to keep in

touch with him after the programme.

1:51:351:51:38

He is a genuine and decent man. Of

course, when he goes out on the

1:51:381:51:41

trials and challenges he steps into

his radio broadcast persona and you

1:51:411:51:47

see more razzmatazz and you see the

nature of the personality that made

1:51:471:51:50

him a big TV star in the 90s, but

that doesn't mean when he goes back

1:51:501:51:54

to camp that he is not the gentle,

loving kind, funny man that I got to

1:51:541:51:58

know in there.

That's interesting.

You talked a lot about missing your

1:51:581:52:04

girlfriend, SNP politician, Jenny

Gillruth is that a photograph of you

1:52:041:52:08

both?

Yes, that's the one she sent

into the camp when I finally got my

1:52:081:52:13

care package.

What did she think of

your decision to go in and how you

1:52:131:52:18

have been portrayed?

I want to be

careful not to speak for her. I'm

1:52:181:52:23

proud that I was able to show a

picture of us together on such a big

1:52:231:52:28

programme. I think, we both aspire

to be good role models for young gay

1:52:281:52:32

women and young gay people across

the UK and we are both very

1:52:321:52:35

committed to doing more of that work

in the future. We talked for a long

1:52:351:52:40

time about taking part in the

programme. It wasn't a rash decision

1:52:401:52:43

for me. I knew it would be

controversial. I had to balance what

1:52:431:52:46

I believed to be all the pros and

cons of it. She did support me. I

1:52:461:52:51

wouldn't have done it without her

support. It's not been the easiest

1:52:511:52:54

of time for her because it has

brought a lot of kind of journalists

1:52:541:52:59

and scrutiny and attention to her

which is something that I wouldn't

1:52:591:53:03

have wished upon her, but sometimes

that's the nature of having a very

1:53:031:53:06

public relationship. She is a very,

very supportive partner. I love her

1:53:061:53:11

tremendously much and I'm very lucky

to have her in my life.

I want to

1:53:111:53:15

ask you finally about making amends

as you put it. How are you going to

1:53:151:53:18

do repair relations with the people

who voted you in as an MSP who

1:53:181:53:24

weren't happy with your decision to

take part in the programme?

I think

1:53:241:53:27

it's only fair to say Victoria that

I'd like to do a lot of first and

1:53:271:53:32

fore most privately so that we can

have honest, fair and frank

1:53:321:53:36

conversations. I have been in touch

with the new leader of the Scottish

1:53:361:53:39

Labour Party. I'm hoping to have a

proper conversation with him soon

1:53:391:53:43

before I return to Scotland. I want

to come back in a way that doesn't

1:53:431:53:48

impinge on any any plans he might

have. We've got a budget process in

1:53:481:53:52

the Scottish Parliament that starts

next week. We're going hear about

1:53:521:53:56

the SNP's tax proposals. These are

big moments in the political week

1:53:561:53:58

and I want to do my level best to

not interfere with that, but I love

1:53:581:54:03

my job. I'm very happy that Richard

is the new leader and I will serve

1:54:031:54:10

him in whatever way he thinks it is

appropriate for me to do so.

John

1:54:101:54:16

says, "I have stuck by Kez, but she

should be back in politics doing the

1:54:161:54:21

job she is paid and not appearing on

these kind of shows."

1:54:211:54:26

If you're male, from a disadvantaged

background, are young, or over 90,

1:54:271:54:29

then you're more likely to miss

multiple GP appointments

1:54:291:54:32

and it's costing the NHS

hundreds of millions a year.

1:54:321:54:39

Dr David Ellis is from

Lancaster University who led

1:54:391:54:41

the study of 500,000 patients.

1:54:411:54:44

Dr Rosemary Leonard is a GP

in West Dulwich who says fining

1:54:441:54:47

patients who miss their appointments

is the answer.

1:54:471:54:51

Dr Martin Marshall is a GP

from Newham in London.

1:54:511:54:56

What did you find?

Patients between

16 and 30 and patients over 90 were

1:54:561:55:01

more likely to miss multiple

appointments, but deprivation was

1:55:011:55:07

the most predictive factor.

And you also found interestingly

1:55:071:55:11

that the ones that were most likely

to be missed were the ones made two

1:55:111:55:15

to three days in advance as opposed

to two or three weeks in advance?

1:55:151:55:22

There were more patients missing

multiple appointments in comparison

1:55:221:55:26

to practises that were giving more

appointments out on the day for

1:55:261:55:29

example.

Rosemary, you think the way

to cut back on the missed

1:55:291:55:34

appointments is to start fining

people. How much?

Well, we have a

1:55:341:55:37

problem in the NHS that people don't

value the service they're getting.

1:55:371:55:40

If you have to say to pay to go and

see a dentist or pay to go and see a

1:55:401:55:45

solicitor and you don't turn up, you

will get given a charge for that.

1:55:451:55:49

I...

How much would you fine people

for missing one of your appointments

1:55:491:55:55

I wonder if there is a fee to see

your GP whether you turn up or not

1:55:551:55:58

turn up, but there has to be a

system where people who have got

1:55:581:56:02

long-term conditions, people in

deprived...

You are not talking

1:56:021:56:04

about fining people, you are saying

that everybody should pay to have an

1:56:041:56:09

appointment

£10.

What do you think

of that?

I wore by about that and I

1:56:091:56:16

worry about fining people that don't

turn up. It is mostly the people who

1:56:161:56:20

have greatest need, greatest demand

and least able to pay who are going

1:56:201:56:25

to be disadvantaged by encouraging

them to pay a fee.

1:56:251:56:29

If you couldn't pay to see a GP

then...

I think one of the real

1:56:291:56:33

issues we have here is when people

don't turn up, for me as a GP, it

1:56:331:56:38

means I can actually catch up

because I'm always running late, but

1:56:381:56:42

the service is under such huge

pressure, there are always patients

1:56:421:56:46

screaming at our receptionists

saying, "Why can't I get an

1:56:461:56:50

appointment?" And someone doesn't

turn up, someone who could be really

1:56:501:56:54

ill, who has got cancer or severe

heart disease or mental health

1:56:541:56:59

issues, they are deprived of having

an appointment.

What's your

1:56:591:57:02

solutions?

There are a number of

things that practises can do. Send

1:57:021:57:07

texts to people before they arrive.

One is to put up notices on websites

1:57:071:57:13

or in the waiting rooms saying in

number of people have not

1:57:131:57:15

acontinueded and it is a waste of

this appointment time. The most

1:57:151:57:20

effective is to discourage people

from making pointments in the future

1:57:201:57:23

and to encourage everybody to access

care on the day usually via

1:57:231:57:27

telephone to their GP. The GP then

decides whether that individual

1:57:271:57:30

needs to be seen face-to-face or

not. The problem with that is

1:57:301:57:33

patients don't like that approach

very much.

1:57:331:57:37

Unlikely we are going to go down the

fining route. Unlikely we are going

1:57:371:57:42

to go down the charging route. What

would be another more realistic

1:57:421:57:45

solution from you?

One of the

interesting things we found in our

1:57:451:57:48

practise is that people who book

online, two to three days ahead,

1:57:481:57:53

they don't turn up. So I think the

texting route reminding people they

1:57:531:57:58

have got appointments is very

important. The other thing we do in

1:57:581:58:01

our practise is if someone fails to

turn up for two appointments they

1:58:011:58:04

get the naughty letter from the

practise manager.

Does it make a

1:58:041:58:07

difference?

We think it does, yes.

Thank you very much. Thank you for

1:58:071:58:12

your patience. I really appreciate

it. Thank you for your time. Thank

1:58:121:58:16

you for your company today. Have a

lovely, lovely day. We're back

1:58:161:58:20

tomorrow at 9am.

1:58:201:58:27

Victoria Derbyshire with stories including the Brexit battle following the DUP backlash, the first ever plan to tackle global waste and the child safety campaign using live streaming apps. Plus Kezia Dugdale on leaving the jungle.