06/12/2017 Victoria Derbyshire

Hello, it's Wednesday, it's 9am,

I'm Victoria Derbyshire.

Welcome to the programme.

Our top story today -

a man is due in Westminster

Magistrates' Court this morning over

an alleged plot to kill Theresa May.

We'll bring you the details.

Also on the programme,

will showing a greater understanding

of what leads a young offender

to commit a crime

help cut offending?

The chief inspector

of probation thinks so.

It's about taking a step back and

really thinking about this much more

long-term. Sometimes spending many

months working with this young

person to build that relationship

before you start that for shaping

activity. Often those young people

have not had continuous emotional

relationships in their lives and it

can make a very substantial

difference.

We'll talk to those

involved in the scheme.

And your assessment on how

the Brexit negotiations

are going so far.

Too slowly. We need to move on to

trade talks and give business

certainty.

No way. We need to go

more slowly because speed costs

money in negotiations.

These

negotiations are complex.

It is a

shambles. Theresa May doesn't know

how to negotiate and these far too

soft.

It is a quagmire created by a

lack of fore sight by the

Government.

Let us know how you think Brexit

negotiations are going. We will

speak to our audience of voters in

the next half an hour.

Hello and welcome to the programme,

we're live until 11am.

Throughout the morning

the latest breaking news

and developing stories and as

always, keen to hear from you.

A little later we'll be talking

about debt over Christmas.

Are you struggling this year?

Are you having to use your overdraft

facility in order to fund Christmas?

Lots of people are according to

research from a debt charity today.

Share your situation with us. Use

the hashtag Victoria live. You can

e-mail and whatsapp and message me

on Facebook. If you are texting, we

will have to charge you.

Our top story today.

A man is due to appear in court

today, accused of a plot to attack

Downing Street and kill the

Prime Minister.

Another man will also appear,

charged with terrorism offences.

Let's get more on this

with June Kelly, who's

at Westminster Magistrates' Court

in central London.

Number Ten Downing Street,

the target of an alleged Islamist

plot to kill the Prime Minister.

It's understood the allegations

involved a plan to bomb the security

gates at the entrance

to Downing Street and then

in the ensuing chaos,

launch a knife attack

against Theresa May.

Two men are due to appear before

Westminster Magistrates' today

charged with terrorism offences.

Naa'imur Zakariyah "Khan" is 20

and Mohammed Aqib Imran is 21.

Andrew Parker, the head of MI5,

briefed the Prime Minister

and the Cabinet yesterday about nine

alleged terror plots that have been

foiled since March this year.

In the House of Commons,

the Home Secretary said police

would have the money they needed.

We will shortly be

announcing the budgets

for policing for 2017-2018.

I am clear that we must ensure

counterterrorism policing has

the resources needed to deal

with the threats that we face.

Yesterday, a report into the four

terror attacks in the UK this year

said some of those who carried them

out were known to

the security services.

It suggested it was conceivable

the Manchester Arena attack

which killed 22 people

could have been stopped.

15-year-old Olivia Campbell-Hardy

was among those victims.

Her grandfather said he wasn't

blaming the security services.

They're gonna do the best they can

with the information they have

got and they gather,

assess themselves,

assess the situation,

make decisions, and act on it.

I will not fault anybody

for doing their job.

The security services say the level

of threat remains unprecedented,

with over 500 active

counter terror investigations.

More on that throughout the

programme, of Cors.

Ben Brown is in the BBC

Newsroom with a summary

of the rest of the day's news.

The White House says President Trump

is to break with decades of American

policy on Israel and is to recognise

Jerusalem as the capital of Israel.

He's also due to begin the process

of moving the US embassy

to Jerusalem from Tel Aviv,

a process which may

take several years.

Arab leaders have warned

against moving the embassy,

saying it would be "a flagrant

provocation to Muslims".

Our correspondent is in Jerusalem

for us. Give us an idea of the

reaction to this?

Well, this is

something that really goes to the

heart of one of the thorniest issues

in the Israel-mrn conflict.

Basically, Jerusalem is seen by the

Israelis as being their eternal

undivided capital, so for this, this

is going to correct what they see as

a historic injustice and Donald

Trump will recognise sovereignty of

Israel over Jerusalem, a city where

they say they have 3,000 years of

Jewish history, that's the seat of

the Israeli government. On the

Palestinian side, well the

Palestinians claim East Jerusalem is

the capital of their future state.

That's why for decades international

consensus has been that only in an

negotiated peace deal between Israel

and the Palestinians should the

status of Jerusalem be worked out.

Palestinians and other Arab leaders

have spoken to Donald Trump by

phone. They have expressed alarm

over this. They have said this could

inflame religious tensions in region

because East Jerusalem is where you

have got the old city with its

religious sites, holy to dues and

Muslims and to Christians and they

are saying it going to upset Donald

Trump's plans of being a broker for

the ultimate deal as he has called

it between Israel and the

Palestinians bringing peace to this

region.

Thank you very much indeed.

The family of an 81-year-old woman

has received a £45,000 pay-out

after she was kept alive

against her will.

Brenda Grant made a living

will stating she feared degradation

and indignity more than death

after seeing her mum lose

her independence through dementia.

But the George Eliot hospital,

in Nuneaton, Warwickshire,

misplaced the document

and she was artificially

fed for 22 months.

Russia has been banned from taking

part in next year's Winter Olympics

in South Korea following a report

into systematic doping

at the 2014 Games.

Individual athletes will be

allowed to take part

if they can prove a doping-free

background, but must compete

under a neutral flag.

The deputy speaker of the Russian

parliament has called the ban

a "humiliation and an insult".

Tens of thousands of people have

been forced to flee from the path

of wildfires in southern California.

Hundreds of buildings have been

destroyed by the blazes and several

thousand homes are under mandatory

evacuation in the cities

of Ventura and Santa Paula,

north of Los Angeles.

California has been hit hard

by wildfires in recent months.

At least 40 people were killed

when fires ripped through parts

of northern California's wine

region in October.

James Cook has the latest

from Los Angeles.

There will be hundreds of homes that

have been destroyed. Tens of

thousands of people have fled and

just tonight, in the past few

minutes, the breaking news is that

the extraordinary scene is that the

fire has reached the Pacific Ocean.

It has leapt over the main coastal

motorway and is burning on the very

edge of the Pacific. It seems the

water is the only thing that can

stop this blaze.

James Cook reporting.

Banks should end all

unauthorised overdraft charges

because they are trapping people

in persistent debt, the financial

charity Step Change has said.

It says two million people in the UK

used their overdraft facility

every month last year.

The organisation wants banks

and regulators to do more

to identify people caught up

in a "vicious cycle of borrowing".

There are calls for a new way

of working with young offenders

to cut levels of re-offending.

Her Majesty's Inspector

of Probation, Dame Glenys Stacey,

has told the Victoria Derbyshire

programme she wants to see

a new approach rolled out

across England and Wales.

It would mean building

a relationship with offenders

between the ages of ten to 18

and working out what has led

to their offending before asking

them to change their behaviour.

The winner of this year's

prestigious Turner Prize

was announced in Hull last night.

Lubaina Himid has become both

the oldest winner and the first ever

woman of colour to take the award.

The 63-year-old artist

was born in Zanzibar,

but is now based in Preston,

and uses her work to address racial

politics and the legacy of slavery.

I think the history of what we've

contributed is underrepresented.

Black people contributed

with their lives, in

the very first place.

And we've continued to contribute

culturally in all sorts of ways.

Scientifically, every which way.

And that is recognised every now

and again, but it's not woven

into the British story.

Christine Keeler,

the model at the centre

of the Profumo affair

of the 1960s, has died.

The 19-year-old became famous

after it emerged she'd had an affair

with both the Conservative minister

John Profumo and with

a Russian diplomat at

the height of the Cold War.

The scandal was considered by many

to be the downfall of the Macmillan

government and she was vilified

by the press at the time.

As they say, if at first you don't

succeed, try, try and try again.

Which is exactly what demolition

experts in the US state

of Michigan have had to do!

After attempting and failing seven

times on Sunday to demolish

the derelict Silverdome stadium,

the former home of the American

football team the Detroit Lions,

things finally went

to plan yesterday.

Explosions removed the upper

level of the old stadium,

the lower levels are set to be

demolished next year.

That's a summary of the latest BBC

News - more at 9.30am.

It is so mesmerising to watch

pictures of buildings being

destroyed for some reason.

Do get in touch with us

throughout the morning,

use the hashtag Victoria LIVE

and if you text, you will be charged

at the standard network rate.

There is a scheme in Nottinghamshire

for several years which is an

attempt to cut the re-offending

rates. So people who have already

been in Young Offenders Institutions

to make sure they don't commit

another crime when they come out.

Seven out of ten people do reoffend

having been in custody which is a

really high figure and governments

over rears have tried to work out

how to tackle the re-offending

rates. We'll bring you the details

of this scheme after 9.30am. Dave on

Facebook has got an answer on how to

tackle youth re-offending. "Get

tough. Harder sentences.

American-style boot camps. Get

tougher in schools. Make parents

responsible. Plenty of ideas there.

Get on with it." Says Dave. Anthony

on Facebook says, "There should be

some sort of boot camp where they

are sent once they offend, but not

serious offences. No PlayStation or

know mobile phones, limited internet

access etcetera. Make them work

whilst they're in there, but give

them a sense of self worth, a decent

education or trade so that when they

come out, they can start to live a

decent life."

Our film is coming up after 9.30am.

Let's get some sport with Hugh.

The England team demoralised after

losing the second Test?

England

could be staring at another

embarrassing Ashes Series defeat.

They are 2-0 in the best of five

series after the hosts Australia

took a 121 run win in Adelaide.

England had offered a glimmer of

hope going into the final day. They

needed what was an unlikely 178 to

win, but they had six wickets in

hand and I woke up like many this

morning to check if the near

impossible was still on and of

course, they had already lost and

they were swept aside. Chris Woakes

went with the second ball of the

day. That was before his captain Joe

Root went in the next over. Not

great for England at that point.

They did make a brief stand. Jonny

Bairstow helping to get them towards

the figure, but in the end,

dismissal, Mitchell's Starc's fifth

wicket. They lost their final six

wickets in the opening session of

the day. So really, Victoria, the

momentum now well and truly with

Australia. Their bowler Josh

Hazlewood said they expected more

fight from England on the final day.

We will see if they can bounce back

and add some fight going forward

from this point.

Yes. I mean, it

feels suddenly like the winter is

stretching ahead, doesn't it? It

could be a very long winter. Where

do they go from here? What can they

do? Is there any chance of Ben

Stokes coming back?

It's very, very

small chance of Ben Stokes coming

back. Much of the concern though out

in Australia seems to be over

England's batting. He would have

helped with that, of course, neither

their batsmen or bowlers fired in

the first innings of this Test in

Adelaide. The first innings deficit

was more than 200. The first time

since 19.81 that happened to

England. They haven't been able to

turn their 50, into tonnes in the

way Australia have. Joe Root the

captain made three 50s out of his

four times at bat in the Ashes

Series so far. He hasn't made a

century yet. In the second half,

England improved, but it was too

little, too late. Root is

optimistic. Here is what he had to

say afterwards.

The way we went

about the second proved to everyone

really that we are still massively

in this series. I think it's as

simple as that. We've shown that

throughout the two games, with

periods that we can outperform

Australia, but just not for five

days and that's going to be our

challenge really. If we get that

right, and we can perform to our

ability for longer periods of time

then we will win games. Simple as

that.

They are looking for that

consistency that he mentioned before

the third Test in Perth which starts

next Thursday. If Australia win that

Test, they will regain the Ashes.

They haven't won in Perth for nearly

40 years. Things aren't about to get

any easier for them, Victoria. It

will take a big swing for England if

they are to turn the Ashes Series

around.

Cheers, Hugh. More from Hugh

throughout the morning, of course.

This morning 52% of you voted

for it, but now making it happen

is proving a little tricky .

Brexit talks are stalling over

the issue of the Northern Ireland

border with the government trying

to find a way to reconcile what it

planned to agree with the EU,

with the demands of the Democratic

Unionist Party?

Whether you voted to leave or

remain, what do you think about how

the negotiations are being handled?

Orange voted and campaign for

remain, I think the gauche Asians

are going pretty shockingly, in

recent weeks, we have seen the line

of Theresa May.

-- I dink the negotiations are going

pretty shockingly.

I don't know

where we go from here. Really

Conservative councillor for Essex, I

supported remain during the

referendum, I think negotiations are

really hard and complex.

There are

some common ground for ourselves and

those we are negotiating with. Soon.

There is a deadline of next week, on

the first phase, D-Link Theresa May

is capable of finding a solution

full. I think we have seen

what progress do you see being made

on the border issue?

So much noise

and discussion over the last couple

of days shows that we are close to a

solution. And apps there are others

that do not want us getting as close

as we are getting and getting as

good a deal as we are getting and

trying to throw obstacles in the

way.

At the beginning of the

programme you said, Theresa May is

not a good negotiator.

Excuse me, my

name is Patricia Gulliver, I come

from Bromley, I am a member of Ukip,

obviously I voted to leave, and I

think that... I think it is a

complete and utter shambles, when

you are negotiating for anything you

put your cards on the table, you

say, this is what I want, and you

let the other person say whether you

will get it or not. If you're not

going to get it, and you cannot come

to an agreement, you walk away.

She

said, yes, we will go for that,

perhaps you did that, but it was the

Democratic Unionist Party who

support the. It was not the people

she was negotiating with, it was the

people who she may have would be

supporting her.

That is now, that

has only just happened, we are

talking about 18 months ago when we

have the referendum.

We may

interrupt our conversation because

"Brexit" secretary David Davis is

giving evidence to a select

committee in Parliament when he will

answer questions about why 58 impact

assessments, assessments on

different sectors of the economy

after Brexit, have not been released

in full, some bits have been edited

out or redacted, or whatever

adjective you have used. We dip into

that when he starts talking.

Introduce yourself.

My name is

Stuart, I come from Mornington, I

voted to leave, but I think

negotiations have become a bit

muddled. We have a rough idea where

we will go, but the Northern Ireland

border is more of an issue as you

say with the DUP partners. Seems to

me. Overall, that should not be a

problem, because there should be a

natural majority for agreement to be

passed in Parliament, without having

to go through the governing party.

Who can see a solution that

politicians may not have seen.

My

name is Danny. Masters student,

Warwick University, I voted leave, I

think the solution is that

eventually, Theresa May agrees to

everything the EU is asking for.

This is not a negotiation, she does

not have much wiggle room around

their red lines, she has already

given up what she said she would not

give up as a financial settlement,

David Davis, last year, said he

would not agree to that, now it

looks like they have agreed to it.

The way to solve the problem is to

agree with what the EU wants, and

move the process forward in that

way.

He wants Britain to stay in the

EU.

That is not what they are saying

to us, at the moment, we have said,

you voted to leave so you can leave,

this is how we will go about

negotiations. Until the Irish issue

is settled, we cannot move forward.

Do you think that is fair enough? Do

you think we can move forward with

some kind of fudged words, so we can

sort out the Irish border issue

later on down the line.

I don't

think the EU have made it easy for

the UK in these negotiations but I

don't think that was the role of the

EU, the role of the EU was to

protect its own interests, role of

the UK is to protect its own

interest. People upset about the way

the EU have Han

handled

negotiations, they should not be

upset, if you are going to throw

people into chaos, do not be

surprised how they defend

themselves.

The Irish issue is not a

real issue. I see a lot of

investments coming into... I was

remain, but now I have changed my

mind, having seen what has happened

to the markets, investment into the

United Kingdom.

You cannot wait for

Britain to get out.

I can wait

because it cost a lot of money to

negotiate, but the DUP issue is a

ruse, anyone who has done any

negotiations will know, the easiest

thing in the world to do is say, it

is not me, it is the people behind

me making things difficult, give me

more concessions. We know the

Europeans do not want a border, we

do not want a border but it is the

best leveraged we have got to say,

it is the DUP.

You are saying Arlene

Foster of the DUP is making it

up...?

No, I think the negotiating

team is saying to the EU, we have

difficulties back home in closed

rooms.

I'm not sure that is right,

she was having lunch with

Jean-Claude Juncker, it was coming

to an end. Before that... A call

that she was not expecting.

Every

negotiation, is when somebody else,

then your hands are tied.

I am

interested you have changed your

mind. Because of the effects on the

industry you work in...

Not just my

industry.

Because of the falling

pound, what difference has it made.

More broadly, beyond what I do as a

fund manager, when I look at the

investments coming back to the

United Kingdom, to London, people

like Facebook, Google, Apple, the

falling pound has made it cheaper

for overseas investors to invest

here. When I am out in Singapore,

Hong Kong, India, I was so shocked

how clean they are to invest because

the pound has dropped, we still have

all the talent in the UK, this is

not rhetoric, because I was remain.

I speak to businesses, they are so

pleased with getting out of what

they see as a protectionist group in

Europe, so that they can invest in

this country. Money talks, you know

what, they are invested.

I am an

executive director at an official

Remain campaign in organisation,

London first, you talk about talent,

by no objective measure of these

talks going well for Theresa May at

the moment. -- London First. She has

in her gift one thing she can do,

that is to provide unilaterally

assurance that the 3 million EU

citizens currently living here will

have the right to remain after we

leave.

How big an issue is that for

London businesses?

Huge issue for

all businesses, EU workers doing

brilliant things, all around the

country. Brilliant business owners,

paying taxes, creating jobs. What

she could do, and this would

strengthen her arm in negotiations,

it would be such a gesture of

goodwill, unilaterally say, we are

going to enshrine in law the customs

date and exactly what those rights

are going to be for EU workers

currently here already.

We can see

David Davis now, the Labour chair of

their... We will cross to David

Davis right now, we will cross to it

now.

58 sectoral impact assessments

exist, so is it your contention that

the reason why you have not handed

over the impact assessments is

because you do not have them?

There

is a formal set published by the

better regulation task force, or

unit, which lays out what they are.

That is not the form of the sectoral

analysis, the sectoral analyses,

which were started back in 2016, are

essentially looking at what the

industries consist of, looking at

the size of them in terms of revenue

and capital and employment and is on

, it is the underpinning of a lot of

policy but it is not a forecast of

the outcome of leaving the European

Union or indeed various options

thereof. That is the first thing. I

think that point has been made, to

the house, in the motion. It has

been made by me, previously, in this

committee, and in the European Union

committee, and so on. What we are

trying to do is give as best we

could under the conditions I

specified. Without undermining our

negotiating position, and without

compromising commercial

confidentiality, or sensitivity,

market sensitive data and so on, and

that is the instruction I gave to my

department. It is the instruction I

gave out to the rest of Whitehall.

Remember the analysis are spread out

over Whitehall, the ownership of the

information is all over Whitehall.

That is why we did what we did to

give you the closest we could come

to the House of Commons motion.

Just

to be clear, has the government

undertaken any impact assessments on

the impact of leaving the EU for

different sectors...

What we do

have, the Treasury has an OD are

forecast, which has an indication...

Even that is pretty crude. -- ODR.

That is pretty crude, it is done

from the average of all the external

forecast. There is no systematic

impact assessment.

So, the arts to

the question is no, the government

has not undertaken any impact

assessments on the locations of

leaving the EU for different sectors

of the British economy. So there is

not one, for example, on the

automotive sector. Is there one on

aerospace?

Not that I'm aware of.

Financial services?

It is going to

be no, to all of them.

Doesn't it

strike you as rather strange, given

the experience around the committee

that you have, the government into

takes impact assessments on all

sorts of things, all the time, that

on most fundamental change we are

facing as a country, you have told

us, the government has not

undertaken any impact assessments at

all, looking at the impact on

individual sectors of the economy.

The first thing to say is, when

these analyses were initiated, they

were done to understand the effect

of various options. What the outcome

would be. We don't need to do an

impact assessment, a former impact

assessment, to understand that if

there is a regulatory hurdle between

our producers and market that it

will have an impact, and effect. The

assessment of that affect, I have

said to you before, is not as

straightforward as people imagine.

I'm not a fan of economic models,

they have all proven wrong. When you

have a paradigms change, as happened

in 2008, financial crisis, all the

models were wrong. The Queen

famously asked, why did we not know!

Similarly, what we are dealing with

here, in every outcome, whether it

is a free-trade agreement, whether

it is a WTO outcome or something in

between those points on the

spectrum, it is a paradigms change.

We know in terms not the scale, not

the size, but the magnitude order of

impact. The second point to make,

when we started... I am now calling

it impact... When we started the

analysis, I did not know in my mind

whether we would end up doing a

negotiation sector by sector. That

was the first thing to understand,

separate negotiation for automotive,

separate for financial services and

so on. Let's say asset managers. We

did not know that at the time. It

became clear quickly that that was

not going to be the approach, the

timetable available to work, and we

served the negotiating process, was

an overarching free-trade deal.

Individual sector analyses will not

be informative on it necessarily,

they are informative as to who is

vulnerable, we welcome back to that

with regional effects, it is

important that it is vulnerable, but

the impact assessment, as you turn

it, piece by piece... -- as you turn

it.

-- as you term it. We will do the

best we can to quantify the effect

of different negotiating outcomes as

we come to it. We have not yet

started phase two, yet. In

particular, we will try to assess...

We will try and assess the effect of

various outcomes in terms of the

over arching manufacturing industry,

agricultural and so on. We'll do

that a little closer to the

negotiating timetable. Now they fall

precisely in that area which I have

described as negotiation sensitive.

So if, for example, I had two

options for an industry, A and B

that I'm negotiating with the

European Union and one will be

beneficial to the tune of 50

billion, just picking that number

out of the air and the other option

will be negative by 10 billion, I'm

not going to publish that just

before I go into the negotiation

with the commission.

Right.

Now,

when they come, I can tell you they

are there, but I can't give them to

the committee at that point.

Well, I

will come on to what you haven't

given us, but you have just said you

haven't done that work yet. You've

said there are no impact decisions.

You were hoping that at the October

council, the door would be open to

phase two of the negotiations where

the question would be asked OK, so

what does the British Government

want? Are you actually telling us

that the Government hadn't at that

point and still hasn't, under taken

the assessment that you've just

described which you say we will do

at some point when you are hoping at

the December council to open the

door to phase two?

I reiterate the

point to you Mr Chairman. The

strategy we decided back way before

the October council, before March,

indeed before the triggering of

Article 50, was that we would go for

an over arching, comprehensive trade

deal. That will cover all sectors,

not one sector and within it, will

be a financial services sector, and

there will be some other tiers, some

specific ones like data and so on.

Some of them you can't quantify. You

cannot quantify the impact of data,

but it is a high effect impact. I

haven't quite finished, Mr Chairman.

Therefore, the usefulness of such a

detailed impact assessment is near

zero and given how we were

stretching our resources to get

where we were at the time, then it

was not a sensible use of resources.

Right, now if you're saying the

usefulness of that is near zero, why

did you tell the Foreign Affairs

Committee on 13th September 2016,

and I quote, "There is the analysis,

they are working through about 50

cross cutting sectors what is going

to happen to them." That sounds like

an impact assessment. What did Lord

Bridges when he told the

subcommittee on 13th October 2016

when he said, "We have cemented the

UK economy into roughly 100

production sectors. We have looked

at those to understand the size and

contribution that each of these

sectors makes to the economy and

used that to support our analysis of

the impact on them of Brexit." Now

that sounds very clear to me that

the Government has been looking at

the impact on individual sectors and

yet you've told us a moment ago that

you haven't done that yet. Which is

it? Either it has happened or it

hasn't?

We are talking September

2016. We were in existence over a

summer, from July, August,

September. We were still looking at

that point at what strategy we would

undertake. And so that's the first

thing. The second thing is...

STUDIO: Let's leave David Davis as

he is being questioned by Labour's

Hilary Benn. Julie says, "This is

painful. Mr Davis is saying the

Government hasn't done the

preparation needed to do its job."

Norman Smith has been listening. How

do you read it?

I thought the most

striking, I don't know if you saw

Hilary Benn as he was listening to

David Davis and his mouth was, he

was stunned that there are no impact

assessments on the effect of Brexit

on key areas of the UK economy,

saying what about the auto motive

sector and what about aerospace,

what about financial services. David

Davis is saying no, no, his argument

they have got so much to do with

Brexit it would be a waste of their

resources to start compiling the

reports and they are trying to get

some huge over arching trade deal so

they don't want to get bogged down

in individual areas. However, I

guarantee you there will be plenty

of Brexit critics who will say this

just goes to show the Government

hasn't got a clue what it is doing.

It hasn't done work to see what the

impact will be on major parts of the

British economy. So I suspect there

is going to be a right old row about

this.

Cheers, Norman, thank you.

Right, OK. Back to our mini audience

of voters, both Leave and Remain

voters. A number of business people.

How do you react to the news that

there are no individual sectoranal

sis on the car industry and on

financial services, we don't know

what the impact of Brexit will be on

those areas?

Well, of course, those

sectors have been doing their own

work and there is barely a business

in the land that hasn't done come

sinned of forecasting...

How do you

react to this confirmation from the

Brexit secretary that the Government

hasn't been doing this work?

It is

surprising. I don't think many of us

could get away with pretending that

we have done something and then

having to admit we haven't done

something. I don't think business

will react kindly. The biggest

impact on business is impact on

talent. Businesses need to know

whether they are going to be able to

keep their EU workers here or not.

How do you react to the fact that

David Davis is saying the Government

has not under taken an assessment on

a sector by sector basis of the

impact of Brexit?

Hi, I'm from

Chingford in North London. As a

businessman, I can tell you for sure

we are affected. All businesses will

be affected by Brexit.

So it doesn't

matter to you?

It doesn't matter,

yes.

How are you being affected?

In

many ways and also I think all

businesses, some who are affected

and there will be very, very badly

affected.

It is good news for the

gentleman sitting next to you. In

what way are you being affected as a

small businessman?

It is difficult

to find the staff now to work. It's

very difficult to, as Naomi said, it

is very, very difficult in many,

it's...

I want to get more reaction

from you.

You say it's difficult to

get staff now.

Before we get into

that. I want to get reaction to the

fact that the Government have

confirmed they haven't done the

sector by sector assessments.

We

need to know what is going on.

Particularly if we end up crashing

out of the EU which will be a

nightmare scenario if we are honest

with each for the economy.

What

David Davis seemed to be saying is,

there is so many different options,

you know, there is walking away

without a deal, there is the various

things that have been discussed,

there is no point doing a sector by

sector assessment because it

wouldn't be accurate?

He is being

dishonest. There is a catalogue of

quotes which Hilary Benn was

referring to which has Mr Davis and

other people talking about the

assessments. I think they thought

they wouldn't have to reveal them to

the public and could big them up.

They have done maybe some analysis

of sector by sector, but not as a

result of the Brexit on those

sectors, but only on the current

stages of those sectors in relation

to how Brexit should be negotiated.

You are a Remainor and you are a

Conservative councillor, are you

taken aback by that?

Not at all.

It

is all right for the Government not

to do their homework?

I think thilry

Ben is trying to score political

points here. -- Hilary Benn.

First

there were 50 assessments and 58 and

now he is disputing the definition

of an impact assessment. Do you

think he is being honest in the

presentation of what analysis he has

done?

I think he is being honest.

This is a fast-moving negotiation.

One of the most complex ever.

Businesses are doing their own work

and I'm sure providing information

in and out of government all the

time. The Government can help use it

to support...

We saw the House

Builders' Federation say yesterday

we have a housing crisis and unless

we get certainty for the EU brick

layers and plasterers and plumbers

we won't be able to build all the

homes we need.

I find it quite,

almost amusing that we heard from

Liam Fox earlier in this year or

last year, that these negotiations

would be the simplest and we see

this from David Davis. As a Labour

Party member, this is not the

strength and stability we were

promised.

Some messages from people

watching around the country. David

e-mails, "For crying out loud. Just

call the whole thing off. This is

too difficult." Sue David Davis lied

to the EU exit committee." Thomas

tweets this, "I am not sure I'm

surprised at all that. That the fact

that David Davis is telling a Select

Committee that the Government hasn't

under taken any sector by sector

Brexit impact reports. It is

entirely consistent with the

shambolic trajectory of the

Conservatives."

You said you had changed your mind.

You were a Remainor. You are very,

you are looking forward to leaving.

I am.

Anyone else changed their

mind?

I was a Leaver, but I would be

more for Remain now.

If there was

another vote?

Yes.

I supported a

campaign for the Remain campaign and

we have seen the fantastic

opportunities that are opening up

since we have been negotiating

Brexit and we haven't left yet.

There are opportunities. I was in...

Do you acknowledge for a lot of

people costs have gone up?

I was in

Malaysia only a couple of weeks

ago...

Because of the falling value

of the pound.

We have had imports

substitution. Look at your shopping

basket and that has not changed in

any significant way since because...

Based on inflation, not on the

falling value of the pound.

This the

short-term, in the long-term.

This

is all about opening us up to the

world so. I went overseas to ma qlas

where I was talking to people in

calla lump pa. It is easier to do

business with them because we share

languages and systems.

They are

investing in Battersea. Guess what?

Sorry your holiday was interrupted.

Does anybody here want another

referendum to check the will of the

British people is the same as the

one?

Definitely, yes.

You want

another one.

Please.

There is no

need for another referendum. It

should be acknowledged twice British

people were asked what they wanted

to do with Europe and the first time

they said they were not sure. The

second time was a hung parliament.

So, I think it's quite clear that

there is no big kind of decision...

OK. I'm going to stop it there.

We're not going to re-run the old

arguments. Thank you. Thank you.

Thank you.

Thank you very much. Your views

welcome. Keep them coming this.

There are a lot of messages. I'll

try and read some more before the

end of the programme.

This morning calls for a new way

of working with young offenders

to cut levels of reoffending.

Her Majesty's Inspector

of Probation, Dame Glenys Stacey,

tells this programme she wants

to see something called the trauma

informed approach rolled out

across England and Wales.

That approach means

building a relationship

with offenders between the ages

of 10 to 18 and working out what has

led to their offending before asking

them to change their behaviour.

Sounds like hug-a-hoodie,

you might think.

Our reporter Dan Clark-Neal

was exclusively invited along

with Dame Glenys when she went

to see a Youth Offending Team

in Nottingham who are spearheading

this new approach in action.

Have a watch of the report

and tell us what you think.

Nottingham.

It's here that the county's youth

offending team are trying to help

young people stop criminal behaviour

for good by working

with them in a new way.

Nearly 33,000, 10 to 18-year-olds

were cautioned or sentenced

for a crime between April 2015

and March 2016 in England and Wales.

Of these, just over three in ten go

on to reoffend within a year.

But if we look at just those

released from custody,

that number goes up to nearly

seven in ten.

The number of young people caught

breaking the law for the first time

has dropped dramatically over

the last decade, from over 100,000,

to just over 18,000.

But those who are committing crimes

are doing so again and again.

The Nottingham youth offending team

are using something called

a trauma informed approach,

meaning the focus is on building

a trusting relationship

and helping these young people

with their troubled

backgrounds before asking them

to change their behaviour.

The woman who's in charge of keeping

an eye on the services which work

to help these young people has

brought us here today to find out

why she thinks this is the best way

to break this cycle.

It's about taking a step back

and really thinking about this much

more long-term and sometimes

spending many months actually

meeting with this young person

to build that relationship before

you start that more

shaping activity.

Often these young people

have not had continuous,

emotional relationships

in their lives and it can make

a very substantial difference.

And Connor Sharman is someone

who has felt the benefits

of this new way of working.

I was 14, I got caught in my car

selling drugs, on heroin.

I was in the wrong crowd

and I just tried it.

Before I knew it, I've got a habit.

Youth offending teams work to help

young people who are in trouble

with the law to stop reoffending.

They supervise ten to 18-year-olds

who have been sentenced by a court,

or who have come to the attention

of the police because of their

offending behaviour,

but have not been charged

and instead, dealt

with out of court.

Youth offending teams also work

with young people who have

not committed a crime,

but are at risk of doing so.

There are 152 of them

in England and Wales.

Youth offending teams are organised

in different ways in each area,

but all of them must have staff

from local authority social care

and education, the police,

the National Probation Service

and local health services.

Dame Glenys Stacey is

Chief Inspector of Probation.

It's her job to report

to government and services

which work with all offenders,

to prevent reoffending

and protect the public.

I'm very keen to know how

you think you have been,

what is it that works here?

It's about building that

relationship with them

and recognising that it's probably

going to be a gradual process.

A lot of our young people haven't

ever had their achievements

celebrated and a lot of the time,

their behaviour

is attention seeking.

I've had quite a lot of young people

that can't actually accept praise

and part of the work has been

allowing them to actually accept

compliments and it's OK to be

proud of yourself.

So a very small number of young

people are sentenced to a spell

in a youth offenders' institution,

basically a prison for young people.

When they do come out, the intensive

work starts then really.

So they're monitored quite closely.

They'll have a timetable

where they have a whole week's worth

of programmes which they have

to work towards.

Obviously, if they're not wanting

to, then we had to chase them

and pick them up and try

and make sure.

So they are seen very regularly

throughout the weeks

for the first couple of months.

We are very honest with young people

about what information

we may have to share.

So if a young person came to us

for say, a shop theft,

but then disclosed they carry knives

in the community, our work with them

may change slightly because we have

to look at kind of risk as well.

Obviously, if they are in school,

there's the risks there,

so the staff are made aware of that.

So it sounds like a really joined-up

approach around this individual.

Zoe's been working for the past

decade as part of the Nottingham

youth offending team and she's

brought us along to meet

Connor Sharman, who she first

met four years ago.

Zoe, you don't work

with Connor any more, do you?

No, my case with Connor closed

in January of this year

following his order being revoked

in court on the grounds

of good progress.

We knew there was a lot of good

in Connor that we wanted to unearth

and everybody stuck at it and he's

proved us all right.

Here we are, four years,

almost four years since he first

came to us and he's working

full-time and drug-free.

Connor, tell me about how

you came into contact

with Zoe in the first place.

I got put on the youth offending

team, yeah, by the court.

What was the lowest point

for you in that four-year period?

Probably being on heroin.

But you are off that

now, aren't you?

Oh yeah, been off it ages.

How long have you been working here?

I think it is about six and a half

months, seven months.

I love it.

I will stay with it now forever.

Yeah?

As long as he wants me anyway.

Job for life?

Yeah.

How important was she for you over

that four-year period?

She's been really good

and she stayed with me

when she didn't have to, actually.

She didn't have to do,

yeah, she stayed with me.

I caught up with Dame Glenys before

she left to ask her about some

of the things she'd heard

from the team.

Is there a danger that we are making

excuses for offenders to go

on and commit crime,

because they've had trauma

in their childhood that makes it OK?

There's no excuse here,

no excuse at all.

I do ask you to think

about what it is like to be a child

that has never been loved and often

that's the very child

who struggles at school,

who gets behind with schoolwork.

Who was then bullied

and then turns to a gang

for some sense of belonging.

We are not talking about

excusing

crime here,

we are talking about

finding the best ways

to turn these young

people away from crime.

Almost seven in ten will reoffend

once they are released from custody,

what is the issue there,

why is that happening?

Well, most young people who offend,

thankfully don't get into custody.

There's a lot of work done very

early on as the person starts

showing some behaviours that might

be worrisome, to divert

them from court.

If a child or young person

is getting to the stage

where they are imprisoned,

they are pretty unusual.

If that individual is left

with little help,

no money to feed themselves

and nothing to guarantee

them a roof over their heads,

they are very, very

likely to reoffend.

Over the four years that Zoe worked

with Connor to help him stop taking

and selling drugs and carrying

a knife,

he lost his grandmother

and his girlfriend Rae broke her

back in a motorbike accident.

Do you remember the very first

time that you met me?

Not fully, I do kind of remember,

when I was at the centre.

I can remember in my head,

trying to work out

how to manage that conversation

with you

because you were under

the influence of something.

Why do you think you ended up

in that place in the first

instance, why do you think

you started taking drugs?

Just in with the wrong crowd

at the time and then...

But what led to that,

what led to you being

in with the wrong crowd?

I didn't really have

any friends my age.

Give me some significant events that

happened over the course

of my involvement with you.

Getting caught with a knife and four

bags of weed and another knife.

My grandma dying, taking heroin.

Obviously Rae had that horrific

motorbike accident and you gave up

everything to care for her as well.

When do you think that something

clicked and you thought,

"That's it, I've had enough,

I'm definitely not

going back there now"?

Probably after Rae's crash.

I thought, I'm never going to go

back there again now.

I don't know, something

just clicked in my head

that's not a life to live

really, is it?

And I have been a bit of a bad lad

and a bit careless sometimes,

but I'm really appreciative

for everything you've done for me.

I'll definitely stay

in contact with you.

I hope you do.

I'm really proud, to see where

you were and where you are now,

I'm really proud of your

commitment and determination.

Thank you very much.

If you work in youth offending,

or you've been a victim of a crime

by a youth offender,

keen to hear your views on this.

Do get in touch in

all the usual ways.

This e-mail is really interesting,

but last, I spent all my teenage

years in detention, or still common

young offenders institution. Five

years in prison after a shoot by cop

attempt. Then my gender dysphoria

was uncovered and I was offered

help. I had tried to take my own

life from the age of 14. None of

this was investigated. I turned my

life around and did not offend

again, this was 40 years ago. -- 14.

Looking at early intervention makes

sense. And another tweet, everyone,

young and old needs a purpose.

Next this morning, it was a story

that rocked the British

establishment and ultimately bought

down the government.

# She loves you, yeah, yeah, yeah...

It was the biggest scandal

of the 1960s, and Christine Keeler

was the teenager at its centre,

who became one of the most

recognisable faces of the time.

John Profumo was

the Minister for War.

He and Christine Keeler

had a brief affair.

When challenged, he lied about it

to the House of Commons

and was forced to resign.

It didn't help that Yevgeny Ivanov,

a Russian spy,

had also been seeing

Christine Keeler,

leading to claims

of a security risk.

Harold Macmillan's government

was left reeling,

but Christine always

claimed she was a victim.

I wish that at that time I had been

older, so that I would have been

able to have answered or spoke

up for myself.

And Stephen.

But I was only a young girl.

Stephen was Stephen Ward,

an amateur artist and society

osteopath

with a string of celebrity

clients

and an attraction

to beautiful women.

He introduced Christine Keeler

to Profumo,

and later took his own life

when charged with living

off immoral earnings.

She always denied

being a prostitute.

She left school at 15.

Her childhood home had been a pair

of converted railway carriages.

She had a child at 17

who died days later,

and then lived with Peter Rackman,

a notorious slum landlord.

Later a boyfriend was charged

with assaulting her,

and Christine Keeler lied in court.

She was jailed for perjury.

In the years that followed,

she tried to reinvent herself.

She wrote a column for

the men's magazine Men Only.

No, I don't agree with prostitution.

By the bins.

She lives here.

She owns the shop around the corner.

And there were three books

one filmed as Scandal.

I never felt better.

I think that's just some press said

that, but I never felt better.

Maybe they were hoping

I was, but not at all,

I haven't felt bitter.

I'm pleased that the truth can come

out now, so that perhaps to stop

all sorts of dreadful stories that

were going to be made up.

But she was often broke,

and two marriages ended in divorce.

She was 75 when she died.

Her son told the BBC

she was always a fighter,

but sadly lost the final fight

against a terrible lung disease.

Christine Keeler never really

recovered from the scandal.

When her son announced her death

he said she'd earned

her place in history

"but at a huge personal price."

Let's find out more about her now

by talking to Sandra Howard.

She was a model in London

and New York in the 60s,

later writing a novel called

Tell the Girl,

drawing on her experiences.

Many of our audience will be

learning about Christine Keeler now,

she was young, she was 19, still a

teenager. She thought about this

huge personal price, her son did, is

that there are enough.

I think it

is, when you are that age, and you

have people in high places, powerful

positions, you get swept up in it,

glamorous, attractive, people are

influencing you. You can sort of

understand, really, where she got

too, where she was.

She had said, if

she had been older, perhaps she

would have been able to deal with it

a little bit better, what was it

like, in then, in those circles?

Well, it was a creative time, the

1960s, an explosion of new talent.

And new freedoms. The pill, all

sorts of new freedoms. There was a

lot going on. Women were treated

differently... They were treated as

playthings. You can take people to

court, you can do a lot more, you

are more protected as a woman. But

back then, you were on your own and

had to look after yourself.

And if

you could not, you are taken

advantage of.

Yes, by those who did

not have principles, but if you were

young, it was easy to see how it

happened. Very sad.

She did not

seem... She said there... She was

not bitter about it, was she, but it

did define her life, she could never

escape it.

So much pub is a too.

Somebody lied in Parliament. -- so

much publicity. He did a huge amount

for charity for the rest of his life

but he had made a big mistake, he

had to pay the price... That

heightened the interest in the case

and in Christine Keeler, the people

she had had her relationship with,

they were power. White if that

scandal happened now, would it be

treated differently?

-- if that scandal

happened now, would it be

treated differently?

A lie in Parliament would still be a

huge scandal, but I think... I think

it would still get publicity.

It is

the line, it is the line that is the

thing...

And a suicide, all sorts of

things that caused it to become a

great sort of drama and scandal, it

was a scandal, and it was a time

when there was more stigma, more

scandals, as well, even.

We are used

to scandals now(!) potentially

immune to them.

Sadly, yes.

Thank

you very much for joining us.

We will bring you the latest news

and sport in a moment, before that,

the weather forecast.

Bottom There is a lot going on with

the weather. For the next 24 hours,

it is all about Storm Caroline, but

it will turn much colder with the

risk of some snow and also ice. For

the rest of today, we will continue

to see some rain moving its way

through Northern Ireland and into

the west of Scotland in particular.

Later on, north Wention, Wales and

the south-west. Towards the eastern

areas, it is likely to stay dry. A

few bright spells here and there.

Maximum temperatures ten or 12

Celsius. The winds picking up all

the while. Gales expected around the

Irish Sea coasts and Western

Scotland. Severe gales by the end of

the night. Rain continuing to spread

its way further south and eastward

throughout the United Kingdom. But

it's Thursday when Storm Caroline

which is situated to the north will

give gusts. Of of wind up to 80mph

in northern parts of Scotland.

That's likely to cause damage and

destruction. Clearer skies for many

of us, but with it showers and

turning colder with the risk of snow

in Scotland, Northern Ireland,

north-west England and North Wales.

There is a lot going on.

Hello.

It's Wednesday, it's 10.02am,

I'm Victoria Derbyshire.

Our top story today -

a man is due to appear in court over

an alleged plot to kill

the Prime Minister, Theresa May.

We'll get the latest from court.

Will addressing the causes

of what drives young people

to commit crimes help cut

youth offending rates?

The Chief Inspector

of Probation tells us why she's

in favour of this approach.

I do ask you to think

about what it's like to be a child

that has never been loved.

And often that's the very child that

struggles at school,

who gets behind with schoolwork,

who is then bullied and then

turns to a gang for some

sense of belonging.

We will talk to people who have been

through the programme and how it has

helped turn their life around. If

you have been a victim of crime by a

youth offender or you were an

offender in your youth, let me know

your views on this approach.

Russia won't be competing at next

year's Winter Olympics

in South Korea although some

of its athletes can

under the Olympic flag.

We will get reaction from British

athletes who are celebrating the

news.

Good morning.

Here's Ben Brown in the BBC Newsroom

with a summary of today's news.

A man is expected to appear in court

shortly over an alleged plot

to kill the Prime Minister,

Theresa May.

The BBC understands

Naa'imur Zakariyah Rahman,

20, from north London,

is accused of planning to bomb

the Prime Minister with a knife.

He is due to appear

at Westminster Magistrates'

Court, in central London.

A second man will be charged

with a terrorism offence.

The Brexit Secretary, David Davis,

has admitted for the first time

that the Government has not carried

out any formal assessments

of the impact of leaving the EU

on sectors of the UK economy.

The admission came in the last half

hour, during questioning

by the committee of MPs looking

at the UK's exit from the EU.

So the Government hasn't undertaken

any impact assessments

on implications of leaving the EU

for different sectors

of the British economy.

So there isn't one, for example,

on the automotive sector?

On the?

Automotive sector.

No, not that I'm aware of, no.

Is there one on aerospace?

Not that I'm aware of.

No.

One on financial services?

I think the answer is going

to be no to all of them.

No to all of them?

Right.

Norman Smith has been explaining why

the Government had not conducted

these assessments?

His argument

seems to be they have got so much to

do with Brexit, it will be a waste

of their resources to start

compiling these reports and secondly

what they are trying to do is get

some huge over arching trade deal so

they don't want to get bogged down

in individual areas. However, I

guarantee you there will be plenty

of Brexit critics who will say this

just goes to show the Government

hasn't got a clue of what it is

doing.

So I suspect there will be a right

old row about this.

Norman Smith there.

The White House says President Trump

is to break with decades of American

policy in the Middle East

and recognise Jerusalem

as the capital of Israel.

He's also due to begin the process

of moving the US embassy

to Jerusalem from Tel Aviv,

though that may take several years.

Arab leaders have warned it would be

"a flagrant provocation to Muslims".

The family of an 81-year-old woman

has received a £45,000 pay-out

after she was kept alive

against her will.

Brenda Grant made a living

will stating she feared degradation

and indignity more than death

after seeing her mum lose

independence through dementia.

But the George Eliot hospital,

in Nuneaton, Warwickshire,

misplaced the document

and she was artificially

fed for 22 months.

That's a summary of the latest BBC

News - more at 10.30am.

Thank you for your comments. Laura

says, "I have been a youth offending

officer previously. I work in

probation. In my view the pull of

gangs and what they appear to offer

people is often too strong to

compete with. They offer young

people money, a sense of power, a

sense of independence and also a

sense of belonging and identity."

Another viewer says, "I spent most

of my work working with young

offenders. Caused by many

circumstances in their young lives

and staying with them right through

until adulthood. If you don't value

yourself and if you don't feel

valued consequences of what you do

are not important." Thank you for

those.

Do get in touch with us

throughout the morning -

use the hashtag Victoria Live

and if you text, you will be charged

at the standard network rate.

Here's some sport now with Hugh.

England are facing a near impossible

job to retain the Ashes after

another defeat put them 2-0 with

three to play in the series. It took

about an hour and 45 minutes for

England's six remaining batsmen to

go down in Adelaide. Chris Woakes

was out with a second ball of the

day before captain Joe Root followed

without adding to his overnight

score. The wickets kept tumbling as

well. Jonny Bairstow the last man to

go. England all out for 233. The

Australians win the second Test in

Adelaide by 120 runs.

The way we went about the second

innings has proved to everyone

really that we're still massively in

this series. I think it's as simple

as that. We've shown that throughout

the two games with periods that we

can outperform Australia, but just

not for five days and that's going

to be our challenge really. If we

get that right, and we can perform

to our ability for longer periods of

time then we will win games. Simple

as that.

This morning coming to the game I

thought, you know, if we get one or

two wickets before the new ball only

18 overs, 180 runs was a lot of

runs. It was pleasing that Josh was

able to come out and do what he did

this morning. I thought his leng was

exceptional and to get the wicket of

Root really put us in a good

position and you know I can breathe

easily.

Australia breathing very

easy. They have made one change to

their squad for the Perth Test which

starts next. England will look at

their options, but the former

opening batsman Jeffrey boycott says

they have no chance of getting back

into the series.

We have been beaten

comfortably in the end. Our hopes

are raised every now and again. We

had two moments in Brisbane when we

could have grabbed the initiative,

but we weren't good enough to do it.

We have had a moment here. We have

been up a bit and maybe, but when it

comes to the tough moments, they're

better than us.

There could be tough moments ahead

for Chelsea. In the knock-out phases

of the Champions League. They

finished second in their groupment

they were held to a 1-1 draw by

Atletico Madrid at Stamford Bridge

last night and they could face one

of three teems teams in the last 16,

two of those are Barcelona and Paris

St Germain. Manchester United

secured top spot in their group.

They came from behind to beat spar

particular Moscow. They trailed at

the break before they pulled one

back and Marcus Rashford hit the

winner a minute later.

Celtic will be going into the Europa

League, despite a 1-0 home defeat

last night. The manager said the

club was realistic over its European

chances, constantly working to

bridge the gap to Europe's biggest

clubs.

That's all the sport for now, we

will have more later on.

Cheers.