15/01/2018 Victoria Derbyshire

Our top story today.

One of Britain's biggest

construction companies, Carillion,

has been placed into liquidation

this morning, threatening

thousands of jobs.

The move came after discussions

between Carillion, its lenders

and the Government failed to reach

a deal to save the company.

We'll hear from some of those

affected throughout the programme.

Also on the programme...

The UK still has one

of the highest rates of teenage

pregnancies in Europe,

despite it halving in

the last eight years.

And now, for the first

time in almost a decade,

councils are going to get government

guidance on how to reduce

the number still further.

I feel like being a parent's

probably one of the loneliest

places I've been.

And you lose a lot of your friends.

They don't want to focus

on this little baby.

They want to go out,

do their own thing.

And I feel like it's probably one

of the loneliest places.

But no-one prepares you for that.

We'll hear from teen mums.

Plus, calls for the Government

to drop its target of reducing

immigration to below 100,000,

with MPs saying instead,

the Government should focus

on building consensus

amongst the public.

But how easy is that?

Immigration has been hugely imported

the UK economy. We do need some

controls, but I think any policy

should have compassion at its heart.

I believe immigration has had a

positive impact and I believe we can

create a fair and transparent system

together that can meet the needs of

our economy.

Immigration has been

positive for the UK but we need a

point basis for the whole of the

world.

Much more from them after 09:00.

Hello.

Welcome to the programme.

We're live until 11 this morning.

Throughout the programme,

the latest breaking news

and developing stories.

At half ten, the Scottish

Government will warn

about the financial costs of Brexit.

We'll bring it to you live.

Also, we want to hear from you this

morning if you, like Henry Bolton,

have dumped your girlfriend

or boyfriend for their views.

Tell me what happened.

Send me an email.

Use the hashtag Victoria LIVE.

Virgin Trains is reversing its

decision to ban sales of the Daily

Mail on its West Coast services.

Sir

Richard Branson says he and Richard

Souter had asked managers to

reconsider, saying tolerance of

different views as part of a free

society. Your views are welcome. And

if you were watching at the BBC new

Channel, apologies for the gap at

the beginning, no idea what

happened! -- News Channel.

Our top story today...

One of Britain's biggest

construction firms, and a main

contractor on government building

projects, Carillion,

has been put into liquidation.

20,000 workers are now facing

an uncertain future.

The company is involved in major

projects such as HS2 and Crossrail,

but has debts of £900 million.

Questions are being asked about why

the Government continued to give

business to Carillion,

even after it issued

profit warnings.

Our business editor,

Simon Jack, is here.

What has gone wrong with this

company? Contracting is a risky

business. You have a lot of

contracts and sometimes the overrun.

This company but its revenue as if

these contracts would go swimmingly.

So they said, that money is as good

as in the bank. But with several

contracts, things went wrong, big

cost overruns and a lot of dead,

owing banks more than £900 million.

So the bank said, we don't want to

lend you more money, it needed

money. The bank said, unless we get

a good and guarantee for that money,

we're not throwing good money after

bad and they pulled the plug. The

guidance says, we can't probably is

company, it is a private company, we

cannot use tax payers money. This is

complicated because Carillion is not

just a building company, it supplies

key public services. Prisons,

schools, hospital contract. What the

government has said today is, if you

are a Carillion employee, go to work

great you will be paid. The

Government will stand behind the

wages of those public service

workers. For how long? Until an

alternative contractor is found, it

could be weeks or months. This is

not new government money, this is

what they would have given the

Carillion to give to them, but they

will give it directly to them. Which

ignites the debate, should you

outsource this stuff at all? That is

what the Labour Party position is.

The Transport Secretary last summer

awarded Carillion part of contracts

to build HS2. It week after the

company issued a profits warning and

the Chief Executive Department for

-- and the Chief Executive departed.

A lot of eyebrows were raised at the

time. What Chris Grayling, Transport

Secretary at the time, will say is,

we construct these deals on such a

way there were three Pogba so if one

went bust, the other two could take

over. -- three partners. And there

was an amount of pigment trying to

help the Carillion because plenty

tell me if Carillion had not got

those contracts, it would have been

curtains for them.

Thank you very

much.

Mick Lynch is the lead

negotiator with Carillion

for the RMT rail union.

Hello. Your reaction first of all

that the company has gone into

liquidation.

A terrible day for our

members. We have to secure that our

members get paid this month. We have

heard the fuel cards Carillion issue

for the fans have not been honoured

some members are trying to get to

work in Carillion vehicles that

cannot get fuel. The company is

incomplete crisis. You need Network

Rail to secure the work. And secure

the future of our members and their

pensions and their pay. It is a

crisis of the making of Carillion

and some of the Director should be

accountable.

Does it reassure you

that the Government has said they

will step in and pay the wages are

sure you?

Nothing assures me that

Chris Grayling has done because his

judgment is faulty. We need Network

Rail and the others, Heathrow

express, to step in now and assure

the staff they will be paid. They

are the clouds, it is work on their

property and their facilities. They

can take these people in house this

week and give them a secure future

and ensure that work continues.

You

said the Director should be

accountable, they were paying

dividends to shareholders last year,

what you mean by accountable, what

should happen?

Massive dividends and

bonuses year-on-year and they have

not taken prudence in putting money

into the pension schemes. £600

billion which could go up to 800,

900 billion. No legislation means

these people have to put a priority

pensioners and people's features. It

is a scandal that these people could

just walk away from the wreckage of

this company while ordinary working

people will be scrabbling around for

work with no idea what the future

brings for their pensions and their

families. It is disgusting, frankly.

The callousness of these directors

and modern capitalism is an outrage.

Thank you very much. Michael Lynch,

from the RMT rail union. This

message says, the Government and has

a lot to answer for by giving

contracts to a volatile company.

Various government departments were

aware Carillion was struggling when

they gave them the HS2 and hospital

contracts. More on that wrote the

programme. If you work for

Carillion, do get in touch.

Annita is in the BBC

Newsroom, with a summary

of the rest of the day's news.

Thank you, Victoria. Good morning.

Ukip leader Henry Bolton says

he won't be resigning,

despite the controversy over racist

remarks made by his girlfriend

Jo Marney, but has told the BBC

he is no longer romantically

involved with her.

Ms Marney had been criticised over

a series of text messages she had

made about about Prince Harry's

fiancee, Meghan Markle.

Ms Marney has apologised

for the comments, but has insisted

they were taken out of context.

Mr Bolton has faced calls

from within Ukip to leave

"quickly" and "quietly".

But he told the BBC this morning

that his leadership was needed

to hold the Government

to account on Brexit.

We have together made the decision

that the romantic element of our

relationship should end. She is

utterly distraught. Close to

breakdown over all of this. She

never intended these comments to

ever be made public. They were made

some time ago. And indeed, although

utterly indefensible, there is some

context to them which, in time, will

be revealed. But the fact is that I

am going to be supporting her family

and supporting her in rebuilding her

life, going forward.

Henry Bolton.

The Palestinian President,

Mahmoud Abbas, has said he will not

accept any Middle East peace plane

brokered by the US,

following Donald Trump's move

to recognise Jerusalem

as Israel's capital.

In a speech, Mr Abbas described

the move as the "slap

of the century" for Palestinians.

President Trump has threatened

to cut aid if the Palestinians

reject peace talks.

President Trump has publicly

denied being a racist,

as a row continues over offensive

language he allegedly used

to describe African,

Central American and Caribbean

countries.

The comments were reported to have

been made during a meeting with US

senators on immigration at the White

House.

In his first direct response

to accusations of racism,

Donald Trump told reporters he had

not made the comments.

Police in East Yorkshire believe

they've found the body of a man,

suspected of using a crossbow

to kill his neighbour.

Officers in Humberside began

searching for 56-year-old

Anthony Lawrennce,

following the death

of Shane Gilmer on Friday.

His pregnant girlfriend,

Laura Sugden, was also seriously

wounded in the attack.

The Government is being urged

to drop its target of reducing net

migration to the "tens

of thousands", because MPs warn it

"undermines" trust in the state's

ability to control immigration.

A report from the Home Affairs

Committee also warns that anxiety

over the number of people living

in the UK illegally has been

allowed to grow "unchecked"

because of a lack of official data

on the scale of the problem.

Dozens of people have been injured

follwing the collapse of a mezzanine

floor at the Jakarta

stock exchange building.

The area was evacuated and cordoned

off by police and a number of people

were seen on stretchers

being carried from the building.

The American comedian and actor

Aziz Ansari has responded

to an accusation of sexual assault

by saying he had believed

the encounter to be

"completely consensual".

Babe magazine published a detailed

account over the weekend

from a 23-year-old woman

She said she felt victimised after a

date with Aziz Ansari. She said it

had taken her a long time to

validate this as a sexual assault.

MPs are calling for more evidence

about women's experiences of sexual

harassment in public places,

to try to find out what can be done

to tackle the issue.

Research by YouGov suggests 85%

of women between 18 and 24

years old have experienced unwanted

sexual attention in public.

Parliament's Women and Equalities

Committee says it wants

to understand why it happens

and establish what can be done

to combat the problem.

Meanwhile, the French actress

Catherine Deneuve has apologised

to victims of sexual assault

who were offended by

a letter she signed,

which criticised the 'MeToo'

campaign against harassment.

She was among 100 women

who put their names to the letter,

which defended the right of men

to made advances towards women.

Ms Deneuve said she stood

by the letter, but did not

want to cause any distress to those

who had suffered abuse.

Caroline says that this harassment

has gone beyond normality. Our sons

will be afraid to approach a girl

and our daughters will never receive

a compliment from a male. And on the

Ukip leader Henry Bolton separating

from his girlfriend because of her

views, this says, he dumped her to

save his career, not because of her

views. If she can express and

friend, does she -- does he expect

us to believe the topic of race

never came up for as long as the

happy ever after lasted? This says,

I'm sure he knew her views, he

dumped her because he was -- she was

caught expressing them. But Henry

Bolton said this morning that

conversation had never come up.

Do get in touch with us

throughout the morning -

use the hashtag Victoria LIVE

and If you text, you will be charged

at the standard network rate.

Let's get some sport with Hugh -

and some sad news to begin with,

we've heard this morning that

Cyrille Regis has passed away.

He was a real pioneer, wasn't he?

Devastating news, the death of

Cyrille Regis at the age of 59,

personally devastating news because

as a young black football ban, it

was clear in my household that

Cyrille Regis and the late Laurie

Cunningham paved the way for the

careers of so many black players in

this country due to their successful

period in the late 1970s. Their goal

of the season in 1982, West Bromwich

finishing third in the top flight.

The trio. The trio enjoyed racist

abuse from the terraces but 112

goals in his time at the Hawthorns

which helped Regis to become a hero

at the club and he earned a number

of England caps before moving to

Coventry in 1984 where he won an FA

Cup cup, receiving an MBE from The

Queen in 2008 for services to the

voluntary sector and football. He

will be sorely missed in football in

this country and already a number of

players coming out, like the former

inland captain Rio Ferdinand is to

pay tribute to him. And many people

calling him a pioneer and just how

he paved the way for so many black

players in this country.

Let's talk about Ryan Giggs -

it looks as though he's going to be

the new manager of Wales.

He doesn't have much experience

at that level, does he?

No, Victoria, and it is a talented

Wales team, they reached the

semifinals in Euro 2017. Gareth Bale

and Ashley Williams in the squad,

hugely influential. Since Chris

Coleman left the job and things did

not go his way in the World Cup

qualifying, they missed out on the

tournament this summer, this is seen

as a key appointment for Wales. We

expect rain gigs to be named as the

new manager today to take charge of

what has been dubbed their golden

generation of players, but it will

be seen as a risk by some. Giggs

does not have that much experience.

He has not managed at a club other

than a handful of matches after

David Moyes was sacked at Manchester

United in 2014. The FA of Wales do

see him as their preferred option.

He is expected to sign a four-year

deal later and the emphasis will be

on them qualifying for Euro 2020 so

a big job on the hands of Ryan

Giggs.

What a game between Liverpool and

Manchester City, Manchester City are

probably going to win.

It was an

unbelievable run for Manchester City

in the Premier League. In all

honesty, despite the 4-3 scoreline

it was more than deserved victory

for the Merseysiders, scoring three

time in eight second half minutes to

really take the game aafrom the

Premier League leaders. They managed

to hold on for a nervy few final

minutes after City managed a few

late consolation goals. Pep

Guardiola called this a reminder to

the rest of the League that the race

for the title isn't over, however,

with a 15 point lead at the top,

well, that's a pretty comfortable

buffer at this stage of the season.

Arsenal disappointing for them, they

were beaten by Bournemouth for the

first time yesterday. It's likely

that they'll lose Alexis Sanchez in

the coming days. We will have more

on that in the next few days,

on that in the next few days, but

the main story, Cyril Reggis dying

from a suspected heart attack.

Teenage pregnancy rates

in the UK have halved

in the past eight years,

but are still among

the highest in Europe.

Now new government guidelines

are being released to help councils

reduce the numbers further.

They include better education,

training for health professionals,

making sure teenagers have access

to contraceptives and ways

of supporting vulnerable teens

who are more likely to have children

at a young age.

Our reporter, Katie Alston,

has been to meet teenage mums.

You can't be immature,

you can't be silly,

think I have a child,

I will go out getting drunk.

Being a teenager could be

quite a lonely time

I wanted my own family.

You can just hear people say

she should not be a young mum

if she cannot control her child.

Being a parent is probably

the loneliest place I have been,

you don't want people to see

you are struggling, get

the impression you're a bad mum

because you're struggling.

Improved access to the right

type of contraception,

more sex education, and a freer

approach to talking about sex.

As well as teenagers socialising

more online are some of the reasons

cited for bringing down teenage

pregnancy rates in the UK.

But what is life like as a teenage

parent, why do government

want to bring numbers down further?

Shannon was 14, and Ethan 17,

when she fell pregnant

with their son Harvey,

who is now two.

My mum found a pregnancy

test in my drawer.

She texted me.

She was a bit angry.

She asked me to come back.

So I came back.

She took a test with me

and it was positive.

She kind of said,

what do you want to do?

She spoke to me about everything.

But it was kind of the thing,

my mama was pregnant

when she was 15, she had my mum.

My mum has never had a job.

I cried in sadness and happiness.

I was worried and scared.

We discussed it over a few days,

I had time to myself working away.

We had a chat over the phone.

We decided we were going to go

through with it.

It was one of those things.

I never really understood

what happened to your body.

It was pretty crazy going

through growing pains,

also going through pregnancy

pains as well.

As Shannon's due date grew closer,

she started to feel

pains in her stomach.

She said hospital staff didn't

listen to what she was telling them.

We had a nurse.

She was very rude to me.

Dismissing me completely.

I remember her saying

to me, "You would not

know what labour

feels like, you are too young".

I had a midwife's

appointment on the Tuesday.

I went to the hospital,

but they sent me home.

My stomach does not feel the same.

She felt it, she ended up

sending me back to hospital.

I had a scan, it turned out I was

right all along, my waters broke.

I did not know they had.

He had been in my stomach

without water for about three days.

When they saw that they had

to induce me straightaway.

What have been some

of the most difficult things

about being a young parent?

I feel like being a parent is one

of the loneliest places I have been.

You lose a lot your friends.

They don't want to focus on this

little baby, they want to go out

and do their own thing.

I feel like it is one

of the loneliest places,

but no one prepares you that.

How does it feel to be lonely?

It is very difficult,

you don't want people

to see you are struggling.

Get the impression you're a bad mum

because you are struggling.

They are things you keep in.

You don't tell anyone.

It's not as glamorous

as people assume it is.

And a lot of the time people just

assume, because you see things

on Facebook or social media,

uploading pictures, smiling babies.

I love my family,

my life is perfect.

You never really want

to put on social media,

I am really struggling.

What kind of reaction have

you had from strangers,

people that don't know you?

I remember one time

I was with my friend,

she also had a baby,

we both had pushchairs.

Someone said to us,

"What are you doing

with your little brother?

Why are you taking your

little brother out?"

We said we are the mums.

They said you are not,

that is disgusting.

How does that make you feel?

Quite annoyed.

It is not other people's business.

They don't know the circumstances,

how much success we have had,

how much she has grown.

They should not make

comments about something

they don't know nothing about.

We don't go around commenting

about anyone else's life.

Rates of teenage pregnancy

are at the lowest level

since records began in the 1960s.

Latest figures show over the last

15 years there has been

a 55% drop in the number

of under 18s conceiving.

There has been no government

guidance on preventing teen

pregnancy since 2010.

Now councils across England have

asked for definitive sets

of guidelines about how to continue

the downward trend.

Alison Hadley is teenage pregnancy

adviser to Public Health England.

It's about making sure they maximise

the assets in their area.

There is not a lot of

money around anymore.

You have to make sure everybody

contributes to the solution.

It has to be what we call

a whole systems approach.

Everybody has to make

a contribution.

So you would start with improving

the sex and relationships

education in schools,

primary school and secondary school

so that all children in the area get

good knowledge and confidence,

and know about healthy

relationships, consent,

and where to ask for

advice when they start

a sexual relationship.

Young people should not be facing

unplanned pregnancy,

we know what we can do

to reduce that.

So everybody is having conversations

early about healthy relationships,

helping young people to delay sex

until they're ready.

About making choices

about contraception,

sexual health, so they can

check himself well.

Talking about parenting.

That will equip young people

to have the confidence to make

the right choices for them.

Nationally 0.9% of births in 2015

to 2016 were to teenagers.

So what support services are

available to the 5,500 young mothers

giving birth each year?

At this children's centre

parents are offered

everything from cooking classes

to play sessions.

For all the parents it is useful

to have support from others,

you can talk to each other.

You can find out

what else is going on.

So it's that extra avenue

for them to get information.

What else is going on out there.

It's a way we can support them

on that individual basis.

Help them transition

into everything else going on out

in the big wide world.

The services at the centre have

helped to build the confidence

of these young parents.

What kind of support did

you get when you found out

you were pregnant at 17?

I didn't want to get any support

when I first found out.

The doctors left me to it.

The midwife was not the best

with your wife you could ask for,

I could not get hold of her.

I did not need the centre

until Leo was six-months-old.

I just had my partner,

my mum, his family as well.

So that was kind of the support.

Well, when Luca was born,

I was invited to a postnatal

group at my local centre.

So from there, I met other mums.

And kind of like staff

at the children's centre.

That gave me quite a lot

of support in the beginning.

It was like a six-week postnatal

course, where they take

you through a lot of kind of things

that you might not know

what you're doing.

And you know they always there

if you need to ask them anything.

From there, because I was

introduced to the children's

centre in that way.

I sort of started going

to all the baby groups

and stuff they had on there.

Do you think people judge

you and make assumptions

about you being a young parent?

You can hear people saying

she should not be a young mum

if she can't control her child.

Stuff like that.

I used to get dirty looks

and stuff like that.

How does that make you feel?

It made me more...

I don't know the word.

It made be more adamant

to be a good mum.

To push myself.

If people say bad things and judges,

you know you are good mum,

it makes you want to be

in even better mum.

And prove people wrong.

What has been some of the most

difficult things about

being a young parent?

My friends that I had back

then aren't my friends.

They're just people I used

to go and get drunk with.

Be silly.

As they found out I

was pregnant with Leo,

they don't want to talk to you.

They have met him

twice and he is two.

It makess you feel grown-up,

more grown-up, want to be mature.

I've got to sort myself out.

You cannot be immature,

you cannot be silly.

You cannot think, no,

I have a child, I will go

about getting drunk.

I think it has made

my priority stronger.

To aspire to be a good person,

a good role model and

do something to make them proud.

Despite teen pregnancy rates

falling, the UK still has one

of the highest shares

of births to teenage mothers

in Western Europe.

Almost five times higher

than in Switzerland and Italy.

So what are they doing

differently in Europe?

They have a much more open

and unembarrassed approach to sexual

They have a much more open

and unembarrassed approach to sex

and relationships education.

There isn't the same embarrassment

and stigma about asking for advice.

Many of those countries expect

young people will start

sexual relationships,

and it is the country's

duty and a parent's duty

to equip those people

do have information

to look after themselves.

So there isn't that kind

of embarrassment and stigma

that is very inhibiting for young

people, around asking

for advice early.

I think we are getting

much better at that.

Is that why the rates

are coming down?

It is certainly part of it,

having better sex education,

making services much more friendly.

Having parents talk more.

Having youth workers and social

workers talking more about issues.

Part of making it much easier

for young people to talk.

What kind of things do

you think that they could be

doing to bring down

rates of teenage pregnancy?

I think it needs to be

spoken about more.

People really have the assumption

when you have a baby,

it is a newborn cuddle.

It is really not as easy as that.

And also talk more

about contraception.

Normalise it a bit more,

but obviously you're going to have

sex and ways to stop

getting pregnant.

And just speak about it a lot more.

Before I had Harvey,

I did not really know

where my life was going.

I did not have so much purpose.

He has helped me a lot.

To know where I want to go,

what I want to be,

what I want out of life.

If you gave birth as a teenager,

I am really keen to hear your

thoughts this morning.

Caroline says, "How are guidelines

going to cut teenage pregnancy

figures? Many look at their future

and don't see much hope and go out

and end up pregnant and get more

money and benefits and a house too."

If you gave birth as a teenager,

tell us how it has been for you

since then. Also let me bring you

this message as well on the same

subject.

Years ago, they got mothers to talk

to 14 and 15-year-olds about what

motherhood is about, just do that

again. That is happening and we will

talk to some Youngs and parents --

some young parents who go into

schools to talk to people about the

reality.

Still to come:

The Government is being urged

to drop its target of reducing net

migration to the "tens

of thousands".

Instead, to find areas that the

public can agree on. Three people

with different views will see if

they can find consensus and your

views are also welcome.

Women and girls are being asked

to share their experiences

of being sexually harassed

in public places.

MPs on the Women and Equalities

Committee are starting

an investigation to find out how

widespread such incidents

are and establish what can be done

to tackle the problem.

If you have experienced this

yourself, do get in touch in the

usual ways. Good morning.

Time for the latest news.

Here's Annita.

The BBC News headlines this morning:

One of Britain's biggest

construction firms, and a main

contractor on government building

projects, Carillion,

has been put into liquidation.

20,000 workers are now facing

an uncertain future.

The company is involved in major

projects such as HS2 and Crossrail,

but has debts of £900 million.

And earlier on this prgramme,

the RMT union has also

attacked the actions

of the company's directors.

It is an absolute scandal that these

people will just be able to walk

away from the wreckage of this

company while ordinary working

people will be scrabbling around for

work with no idea what the future

brings for their pensions and their

families. It is disgusting, frankly.

The callousness of these directors

and modern capitalism is an outrage!

Ukip leader Henry Bolton has told

the BBC he is no longer romantically

involved with his former girlfriend

Jo Marney, following the controversy

over her racist text messages.

Mr Bolton says he won't resign

as party leader, despite calls

from within Ukip to go.

Ms Marney has apologised

for the texts - which centred

around derogatory comments

about Prince Harry's fiancee,

Meghan Markle - but claims

they were taken out of context.

The Palestinian President,

Mahmoud Abbas, has said he will not

accept any Middle East peace plane

brokered by the US,

following Donald Trump's move

to recognise Jerusalem

as Israel's capital.

In a speech, Mr Abbas described

the move as the "slap

of the century" for Palestinians.

President Trump has threatened

to cut aid if the Palestinians

reject peace talks.

Meanwhile, Donald Trump has publicly

denied being a racist as a row

continues over offensive language

he allegedly used to describe

African, Central American

and Caribbean countries.

The comments were reported to have

been made during a meeting with US

senators on immigration at the White

House.

In his first direct response

to accusations of racism,

Donald Trump told reporters he had

not made the comments.

And he claimed he was the least

racist person they had ever

interviewed.

Police in East Yorkshire believe

they've found the body of a man,

suspected of using a crossbow

to kill his neighbour.

Officers in Humberside began

searching for 56-year-old

Anthony Lawrence, following

the death of Shane Gilmer on Friday.

His pregnant girlfriend,

Laura Sugden, was also seriously

wounded in the attack.

Virgin Trains is to reverse

its decision to ban

sales of the Daily Mail

on its West Coast services.

Sir Richard Branson said

he and Sir Brian Souter -

who's a part-owner of the company -

had asked managers to reconsider,

saying that tolerance for differing

views were the core principles

of a free society.

That's a summary of

the latest BBC News.

Thank you. These comments are about

Carillion, which has gone into

liquidation this morning. Garrett

says, time to stop outsourcing

contracts. Carillion is a

construction and outsourcing

companies. The only winners are the

shareholders, the Government should

not bail them out, take on the

contracts themselves. This says,

since we are going to pay for its

pension deficit, debt and the

contracts already agreed, this is a

solution, nationalise it. Without

conversation to shareholders or the

predatory banks, and prosecute the

Board of Directors for broad. The

writing on the wall has been long

enough on the wall for the

Government to be aware, but once

again, we will have to pay for the

fat cats.

Here's some sport now, with Hugh.

Good morning, former West Bromwich

Albion and commentary striker

Cyrille Regis has passed away at 59

due to a suspected heart attack.

Regis made a part of the trio dubbed

the three degrees, scoring 112 goals

in his time at the Hawthorns. The

former England captain Rio Ferdinand

said he helped set the foundation

for other ethnic minority players.

Rain gigs will be named as the new

manager of Wales this afternoon,

replacing Chris Coleman. In his

first full-time job as Management.

He took charge Manchester United for

four games in 20 14 after David

Moyes was sacked. Manchester City

had been beaten for the first time

in the Premier League this season,

losing 4-3 at Liverpool. City boss

Pep Guardiola said they have learnt

good lessons and they are still 15

points clear at the top of the

table. Kyle Edmund has enjoyed the

biggest win of his career, beating

11 seed Kevin Anderson in the

Australian Open at Melbourne. He

will face Dennis is to me next. That

is all sport for now, we will be

back just after ten o'clock. Thank

you.

The Government is being urged

to drop its target of reducing net

migration to the "tens of thousands"

because it "undermines" trust

in the state's ability

to control immigration.

Net migration is the difference

in number of people coming to live

in the UK and those leaving the UK.

The Government has pledged

for years the number

should be below 100,000,

but the Home Affairs Select

Committee says having

a target like this which,

by the way, has never been achieved,

undermines people's trust

in the state's ability

to control immigration.

They're calling on the Government

to try and find consensus

amongst the British public.

But how do you find public agreement

on an issue which divide people?

Here, we have three people with very

different views, to try and see

if they can find agreement.

Luke Muskett.

He is a former Ukip voter.

Kajal Sanghrajka is the founder

of Growth Hub, which helps

companies expand to the US,

is currently researching how

cities attract immigrant

entrepreneurs, and her father

was a Ugandan immigrant.

And Sam Nanji is an IT

business owner, Ugandan

refugee and immigrant,

and who believes in controlled

immigration, with compassion.

Welcome, thank you. This is your

chance to set up a post-Brexit

immigration system. I want to try

and find areas where you agree.

Should the Government dumped the

target?

Yes.

Yes.

Yes. That is a

good start! Why?

They have never

achieved a target. I think it has

been arbitrarily set. Without really

looking at the needs of business and

individuals involved. And having a

target picked out of thin air, which

we will never achieve, really does

undermine confidence from the

general public.

Why should the

target to be dropped?

It is a very

crude way of looking at immigration

and different immigrants have

different skill sets that we need to

look at. The majority of the British

public have a balanced view on this

and we need to look at this on a

broader level without a crude

number.

Yes, this does not make

sense. It is common sense, you want

have the best people in so why have

a limited set target of 100,000? It

does not make sense.

Stupid. Stupid,

OK! So the latest figures show net

immigration, net migration fell to

230,000 in the year ending June

2017, that is down from a high of

330 6,000. Is that about right,

230,000? Is that still too many, too

few?

I am not sure really. It

depends. There needs to be a big

conversation about what people want,

what is an acceptable number of

everyday people. But generally, I

think you need the best people. If

there is a shortage of skills, I

think most people think we should

get the best people from around the

world.

How do you do that? That

seems to have alluded politicians

for a while.

Have a points-based

system. We have got that. But extend

it to Europe. At the moment, you

have a system where you have free

movement of people from the EU so in

order to get the numbers down, they

have to try and be punitive and the

rest of the world. It is not make

any sense. Why have thousands and

thousands of unschooled workers when

you have people out of work, young

people, the highest percentage

demographic, it makes no sense.

We

have a point space system from

people outside the EU and four

years, not the most recent figures,

but for years, those numbers were

higher than EU migrants. Luke says a

point space system for the whole

world.

Yes. I think the think you

have hit on the head is where we

could control immigration outside

the EU, the numbers were going up.

EU was Home Secretary at the time.

And David Cameron was setting these

arbitrary figures for immigration.

So are you saying a point space

system does not work?

We need to get

away. We fixated on the numbers of

people coming in and out. We should

get rid of that motion and say it

should be based on our needs. If we

need fewer people because we have

got the skills in the country, that

is fine. If we need some of these

smart people with their skills, to

come into the country because we

have a need, we should get them in.

And at the same time, there low paid

skilled jobs that people in the UK

just don't want to do. Look at

agriculture. Do you really want to

be picking strawberries on a cold

day? Some people don't want to do

those jobs. So I think it has to be

a balance based on our need.

Kajal,

if it was based on what we needed,

how would you design that system?

Would you do it sector by sector?

IT, how many do we need?

Agriculture, hospitality, and so on?

I think we have to get across that

this is not a zero-sum game, there

is a trust issue with this. The

point space system is a good

starting point because the spirit of

that is that. What people want is

something that is fair and

transparent. In terms of whether it

is divided by sector we look at Lobe

blush local regional policy, the

local impact is massive and you feel

that on a daily basis. -- if we look

at the local regional policy. So I

think there needs to be a real

conversation between all the

different stakeholders involved and

that is not what has happened so

far. Until the report that came out

today from the national conversation

on immigration, which I was

encouraged by because the British

public do have a balanced view. They

think it is... They have concerns

about pressure on housing, which we

need to address.

The British public

when you look at polling evidence

suggests if people are coming to

Britain for a definite job, that is

totally different from someone

coming looking for work.

Yes, it

makes sense. It is just common sense

really. What you said about the

points based system that for years,

the rest of the world, more

immigration has been coming from the

rest of the world, you would expect

that because the rest of the world

is a much larger demographic of the

Earth!

The point is if the

Government wanted to achieve that

target, any government, it could

make the points system more

difficult and reduce the numbers.

200,000. You would expect there

would be some reduction if there was

a points-based system because free

movement, anyone can come in.

The

number includes international

students. Most people agree that

that should not be part of the

immigration statistics. So if we

take that out, the number is far

lower. This is why just having this

crude number does not make sense.

There are nuances which people do

not understand.

This is where we are

up to after eight minutes. Get rid

of the target, we have a fair and

transparent system. It is based on

need. Do you agree about the points

system?

What Rick said which was

interesting, it is common sense. The

problem is, common sense is not that

common, especially in the UK

Government. And it was interesting

when David Davis was being

questioned by one of the Select

Committee. Brexit Secretary. He was

asked, have you done a sector by

sector analysis on the impact of

Brexit? And a sector by sector

basis. I was gobsmacked when he

admitted that they had not. So how

can you assess the needs on a sector

by sector basis? You can, if you

want to.

Yes, but they chose not to.

A press conference later from

Scotland to talk about the effect of

Brexit on their economy and we will

bring that live at half past ten.

Finally and briefly, I want to

rescue about the Ukip leader Henry

Bolton separating from his

girlfriend because of her racist

views, although he said on the radio

this morning she is devastated and

the comments were taken out of

context and they are not her views.

Should he resign?

Who cares? I used

to support Ukip. Mainly for the EU.

They are just so irrelevant. Why is

this the top story, while we

discussing this? They got 1%, 2% of

the vote last time. Nigel Farage and

everyone, as much as what he has

done for voting, they just need to

be quiet now.

I need a libertarian party.

I I

don't think he should resign. Let's

see how he handles it, that's going

to be the test.

Briefly.

I am amazed

that she says that it was taken out

of context. I would love someone to

actually go to her and say, "OK,

give us the context. What was the

context around which you said this."

And I think the other thing is,

nothing is private anymore. If you

send a text message, and you know,

you are saying things that are not

very nice, it is going to end up on

the media and I think it is good

that he has distanced himself from

these comments, but I think he

should go further and she should be

questioned around context.

Thank you

all. Thank you very much for coming

on the programme. Thank you.

Coming up:

A hard Brexit could cut

Scotland's economy by more

than £12 billion per year,

that's according to a new report.

I have got messages about having a

baby when you were a teenager. This

texter says, "Hello, I had my oldest

son the day after my 18th birthday.

I'm now 45. And I am a specialist

community public health nurse. I

feel that teenage mums can achieve

after having children, but they need

support to be able to do this.

Education is key and learning that

your goal is to give your child the

best life possible. Education makes

all the difference, giving you the

power to make changes to improve

your life." This from Jodie, "I had

my daughter when I was 17 years of

age and I found the hardest thing

about it was constantly being judged

because of my age. I worked hard and

I provided for my daughter like any

other parent, yet people still

looked down on me. At one point I

took my daughter's dad to court for

full custody. Even though I was

there protecting my daughter like

any good mother, would the court

referred to us as babies having

babies. I cannot do normal

day-to-day things that any other

parent does without being judged

simply because of my age. Despite

the fact that I am behaving no

differently than any older mother

would. My only wish is that people

would stop judging us and putting us

under the same stereotype." Thank

you, Jodie.

Women and girls are being asked

to share their experiences of being

sexually harassment in public.

MPs on the Women and Equalities

Committee are launching

an investigation to see how

widespread such incidents are

and the impact of such incidents -

something we've discussed a number

of times on the programme before.

We are going to talk about sexual

harassment in Hollywood, in banks,

in hospitals, in the Armed Forces,

in restaurants, in journalism, in

your place of work.

I used to have to walk

to work, quite a long way.

I would regularly get followed home.

I would be constantly

harassed by certain men.

I was quite a feisty

person when I was younger.

More so then I am now, I would say.

I would be like no, no,

I would play every single card.

Nice but no thank you.

Can you just back off,

I am not interested,

I'm going to call the police,

get off my case.

Let's talk now to Emma Lyskava,

who is a 28-year-old social media

manager from Manchester,

who has been publically

harassed multiple times.

Sarah Green, the co-director

of End Violence Against Women,

a charity who did research

into public harassment.

Molly Ackhurst is from

the HollaBack project,

which raises awareness

of harassment against women.

Thank you very much for coming on

the programme. Emma, you have had

multiple experience of this and

being called vile things in public.

Tell our audience what has happened

to you.

So, it has been where I have

been walking home from university,

walking home from work, people have

shouted things from cars, driving

past, I have been followed home

through parks, 4pm in the afternoon,

broad daylight, there is a random

man following me home and just won't

leave me alone.

Tell me how you

think an inquiry which has been

launched by this committee of MPs

might change that kind of behaviour?

I think it shows that it has been

taken certificate are yously, you

know, we kind of brush it off and

think you know, it is normal, it

happens to every woman or girl, but

it's not normal, you know, we

shouldn't accept it as something

that just happens to everybody. It

kind of gives people the confidence

to report these kind of things. Take

it seriously and there are

consequence to say people's actions.

Sarah, how widespread is it that

women and girls are harassed in

public?

Well, the survey we did last

year found that around 85% of

younger women have experienced

sexual harassment so what we called

unwanted sexual attention in our

survey and half of them had

experienced unwanted sexual touching

which is stuff that would sometimes

amount to sexual assault and that's

of younger women and it is around

two-thirds for women across the

population, so it is extremely

common behaviour. High rev lance

rates and it is the most common form

of abuse that women experience. We

asked them would you liked somebody

to have done something and 10% said

someone did, 80% said they would

have liked if someone else stepped

in. We have got a parallel

conversation here about the

responsibility of all of us who are

in public space and when we get

involved and when we do something

and how we do that.

Molly, I know

you're pleased that this inquiry is

happening, because shedding light on

harassment is a good thing, but how

does it change people's behaviour.

That's we are happy that the inquiry

is happening. When talking about the

importance of shifts in behaviour

and shift in attitudes, I think we

are hopeful that this inquiry will

do that, but there is so much more

that needs to be done. We see this

with the sexual harassment in

schools inquiry where the Government

have implemented few of the

suggestions and recommendations and

there is only so far that laws can

go. Whilst this inquiry may

encourage more survivors of

harassment and other forms of abuse

to speak out, we really need it

start challenging perpetrator

behaviour and we hope that this

inquiry will do that, but there is

so much that needs to be done. I

think Sarah is mentioned the

importance of bystanders and

bystander intervention is a vital

kind of thing that needs to be

happening across workplaces and

schools, and I'm just not sure how

far an inquiry will go to push for

that.

Yes. Well, that's up to

individuals, bystander intervention

is up to an individual seeing

something happening and calling it

out there and then which is hard

sometimes to do. It depends on the

nature of your personality and the

circumstances and all that stuff.

But if any of our audience have

intervened when they have seen

somebody being sexually harassed, I

would love to hear from you, it

ticks over why your brain, shall I

say something? I want to ask you

about the American actor who won a

big award and at that award ceremony

won a Time's Up pin. He has been

accused of sexual assault after a

magazine published a detailed

account from a woman who had a date

with him. She said it was the worst

night of her life. He said he

thought the whole evening was

consensual. What do you think of her

account and what do you think about

men who potentially ignore or

misread signals that you don't want

to have sex with them?

I think it's

really important when we speak about

kind of survivors speaking the truth

that we move away from kind of

talking about perpetrators,

misreading situations, it is when we

go back to sexual harassment it is

like when men say, "It is just a

compliment." It is never a

compliment, it is never misreading,

it is clear when someone is saying

yes and saying no, physically and

verbally.

Not according to him?

I

don't believe that he's telling the

truth.

We need to get a standard,

don't we, for sexual conduct which

maybe we can in particular for

sexual activity we can talk about

enthusiastic consent. What kind of

guy wants to go ahead and wants to

carry on all the euphemisms, what

kind of guy, when she is being

ambivalent and she is trying to hold

you back, what kind of guy are you?

What would you say in sal for, Emma?

I think it is worse because he has

forged a career saying he is this

feminist and he turns around and he

is just like these other guys that

do sexually harass and assault women

when they say they are a feminist

and you know can read the signals

when in the article it says that she

didn't want to be forced...

He

denies it. He said it was completely

consensual. Thank you very much for

coming on the programme. I

appreciate it. If you have

intervened when you have seen

someone, if you have seen someone

being touched and it was clear they

didn't want to be or being sexually

harassed or, you know, verbal,

horrible verbal names, do let me

know.

Virgin Trains has announced it's

going to reverse its decision to ban

sales of the Daily Mail

on its West Coast services.

Sir Richard Branson said

he and Sir Brian Souter,

who is a part-owner of the company,

had asked managers to reconsider,

saying that tolerance for differing

views were the core principles

of a free society.

Virgin had previously said

staff her expressed concern

about the papers position on issues

such as immigration,

LGBT rights and unemployment.

We can get reaction now

from Observer columnist Nick Cohen

who says banning a newspaper

is an attack on free speech.

Hi, there Cohen, how are you?

Fine,

thanks.

What do you think of this

reversal of the decision?

Well,

they've succumb to public pressure.

They didn't make it a big deal when

they did it, they just put out a

little release among their staff

saying we've responded to

complaints, but journalists

obviously have taken it up because,

well, from my point of view, I

simply don't think that bans like

this work. I'm speaking, I work for

the Guardian and Observer. This

whole culture you've got now of

universities banning speakers even

though they are not inciting crime

or inciting violence and I don't

know who you follow on Twitter,

Victoria, but people I follow seem

to want to ban a lot of right-wing.

I don't think it works. I think it

gets people's backs up. I think

people say, "Who the hell are

Richard Branson and Brian Souter to

tell me what I can and can't read."

It drives people towards the

positions of Donald Trump and Nigel

Farage.

It was censorship in your

view?

Well, in a way, yes. I mean,

there was a newspaper that was on

sale and it wasn't. It has been

stopped. I mean you can get lost in

the niceties of that, people all say

when universities stop having

feminist speakers who have said some

off colour remark about transsexuals

and saying, "It is not really

sensored because the State is not

doing it." But in normal language,

it's a ban. It is a restriction on

what people could read now compared

to what they could read in the past.

I don't want to get lost in the

minute ushy of it all.

There is a

lot of people on Twitter calling for

bans of this and bans of that. Do

you think Twitter sets the agenda,

Touche in this country?

I don't

think you can blame technology. I

really don't. Technology doesn't, it

isn't destiny and doesn't determine

what we think and don't think. There

is a spirit of the age. On the right

as well as the left, of great

intolerance of your opponents, of

demonising your opponents, of saying

look, they're not just wrong or

misguided, but they are almost I

will legitimate. You see that very

much with how Trump won in America.

You see it with all kinds of petty

dictatorships that are rising up in

countries like Hungary. To oppose is

almost to be like a criminal and

that requires criminal sanctions.

They are not allowed to speak. This

is so racist in the case of The Mail

and the danger, just from a

practical point of view, just from

the point of view of you are in

politics to get something done, you

are not going to convert someone. I

am very much against Brexit. I think

it is a betrayal of our country. A

disaster for our country, but I and

people like me have got to persuade

some of the 17.4 million people who

voted leave to come over to our

side. You know, heavy handed tactics

are entirely - the same applies in

America. In America the Democrats

have got to persuade in 2020 people

who voted for Donald Trump to vote

against him. Now, when you start

getting into this highly hysterical

culture it just confirms them in

their beliefs.

Let's get the weather.

their beliefs.

Let's get the weather.

The weather is improving slightly as

we head on into the afternoon. This

was the scene this morning with some

rain, but already some rainbows out

in Yorkshire. I think most of us

will see something brighter by the

time we get into the afternoon. This

is the weather front that is

responsible for the rain that we've

had this morning. It's gradually

clearing its way eastwards. Behind

it, strong winds feeding in a series

of showers and some of those showers

could be heavy and wintry. That's

where we are this afternoon. The

heavy showers continuing. Some

bright or sunny spells in between if

you're lucky and the potential for

some wintry showers or snow on

higher ground in Scotland. Now, it

is pretty cold further north.

Temperatures three to about five

Celsius. Further south, still

slightly milder. Temperatures in

double figures up to ten Celsius.

As we head into late afternoon, the

snow showers continuing to fall

across Scotland. Perhaps getting

down to lower levels as well.

Northern parts of England, some

bright spells, a few showers. The

winds lighter across eastern

counties, but further west, touching

gale force at times. There will be

sunny spells, but the showers will

continue across Devon and Cornwall

and Wales through the rest of the

afternoon and into tonight. So

tonight there is the risk of ice,

essentially across Northern Ireland

and Scotland where we have a yellow

be aware warning. Potential for some

snow at lower levels for northern

parts of England, Scotland and

Northern Ireland and this colder air

really taking charge over the next

few days. You'll need the extra

layers as you head out. You'll feel

the difference. Tuesday, yes, we

have the showers continuing to feed

in. Even at lower levels, they could

fall as snow across northern

regions, Northern Ireland, Scotland,

northern parts of England. Further

south, there will be drier

interludes, but rain showers

continuing and if you factor in the

wind, it will feel more like minus

four or minus five Celsius in the

day time. So, pretty cold out there.

As we head towards the middle of the

week, there will be sunny spells. A

few showers. Again, wintry. Perhaps

in Edinburgh and some strong winds

to come, stormy conditions, by the

middle of the week. That's your

latest forecast.

Hello.

It's Monday, it's 10 o'clock.

I'm Victoria Derbyshire.

Our top story today -

thousands of jobs are under threat

this morning because one

of Britain's biggest construction

companies has gone into liquidation.

Talks between Carillion,

its lenders and the government

failed to reach a deal

to save the company.

We'll be talking to

someone who works there.

Councils are given new guidance on

how to reduce teenage pregnancy. The

UK still has one of the highest

rates in Europe despite it hardly in

the last eight years. You can just

hear people saying, she should not

be a young mother. Stuff like that.

And I used to get dirty looks and

stuff like that.

We'll also be talking to a man

who became a dad as a teenager

and asking what needs to be done

to cut teenage pregnancy

rates further.

Ukip leader Henry Bolton says

he won't be resigning,

despite the controversy over racist

remarks made by his girlfriend

Jo Marney, but has told the BBC

he is no longer romantically

involved with her.

I am absolutely not standing down.

The reason is because it is

crucially important at Ukip has a

loud voice leading up the exiting

the European Union and in shaping

the nation on the way forward out of

that.

We'll talk to one Ukip MEP who says

Henry Bolton should go.

Scotland's First Minister

has accused Theresa May

of a "fundamental dereliction

of duty" in failing

to set out the economic

impact of leaving the EU.

she says Brexit could cut Scotland's

economy by more than

£12 billion per year.

We will hear from Nicola Sturgeon at

half past ten.

Good morning.

Here's Annita, in the BBC Newsroom,

with a summary of today's news.

Our top story today.

One of Britain's biggest

construction companies, Carillion,

has been placed into liquidation

this morning, threatening

Earlier, Michael Lynch, of the rail

union the RMT, said the company's

directors had left its workers in

the lurch.

It's an absolute scandal that these

people will just be able to walk

away from the wreckage of this

company while ordinary working

people will be scrabbling around

for work, with no idea

what the future brings

for their pensions and their

families.

It's disgusting, frankly.

The callousness of these directors

and modern capitalism is an outrage!

Peter Plisner is our Midlands

business correspondent,

and is at Carillion's

headquarters, in Wolverhampton.

Good morning. Is it becoming any

clearer in terms of things being

said about what might happen to

those 20,000 employees and give

reaction to this morning's news as

well?

well?

We're here at Wolverhampton HQ

of Carillion. They basically have

said nothing. They have been briefed

not taught the media. They assume

that is a team the building from the

receivers, although they are not

officially appointed. This is far

reaching not just for Carillion

workers, 400 and Wolverhampton and

20,000 across the country. There is

the wide impact on the supply chain

in the construction industry. I have

been talking to a couple of civil

engineering companies this morning

and they certainly worried. Some are

worried they will not get paid and

worried about the future of the

company. A lot is at stake.

Unfortunately, this is not the news

many were expecting. They expected

some kind of deal to be done to save

some jobs and it appears this is the

worst possible news for staff here

and elsewhere.

Thinking very much.

Outside Carillion headquarters.

Moron that in the next few minutes.

-- we will have more on that.

Ukip leader Henry Bolton has told

the BBC he is no longer romantically

involved with his former girlfriend

Jo Marney, following the controversy

over her racist text messages.

Mr Bolton says he won't resign

as party leader, despite calls

from within UKIP to go.

Ms Marney has apologised

for the texts, which centred

around derogatory comments

about Prince Harry's

fiancee, Meghan Markle -

but claims they were taken

out of context.