16/01/2018 Victoria Derbyshire


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16/01/2018

Victoria hears more about 13 siblings who were rescued from a house in California, as well as the Marie Stopes clinic whic is set to be protected from anti-abortion protesters.


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Hello.

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It's Tuesday, it's 9 o'clock,

I'm Victoria Derbyshire,

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welcome to the programme

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Our top story today -

Police in California have rescued 13

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brothers and sisters from a house,

where some of them were

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chained to their beds.

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Here Alison hits, from 29 22-macro,

just captive.

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Malnourished and filthy, it is

heartbreaking. -- here are some

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kids, from the age of 29 to two.

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Their parents have been arrested

and charged with torture

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and child endangerment.

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We'll bring you the full

story this morning.

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How common are fake degrees? More

than 3000 bogus qualifications were

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bought in Britain alone from one

company in Pakistan.

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Plus this horrific experience does

not define me, I am much more than

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this.

The words of Olympic champion

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gymnast Simone Biles, who has

revealed she was sexually abused by

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the former USA team Doctor Larry

Nassar. We will get reaction from

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the gymnasts. -- from some other

gymnasts.

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Hello.

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Welcome to the programme,

we're live until 11am.

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Throughout the programme we'll bring

you the latest breaking news

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and developing stories.

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In the next 15 minutes we're

going to hear your experiences

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of the NHS during what some

are calling a winter crisis.

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We had so many of you get in touch

last week we wanted to air some

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more of your stories.

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Of course feel free to feed

in your own expoeriences.

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Use the hashtag #VictoriaLive.

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If you text, you will be charged

at the standard network rate.

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Let us know your positive and

negative experiences. You can also

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get in touch by e-mail, Facebook or

Whatsapp.

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Our top story today...

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Police in California

have rescued 13 brothers

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and sisters from a house,

where some of them

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were chained to beds.

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The alarm was raised on Sunday,

when one girl escaped

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and alerted the authorities.

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Their parents have been arrested

and charged with torture

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and child endangerment.

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Our North America correspondent

James Cook has this report.

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They look like a big, happy family.

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The children a little pale,

perhaps, but smiling.

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Photographs on Facebook show

the Turpins visiting

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Disneyland and in Las Vegas,

as their apparently proud parents

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renewed wedding vows.

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Now David and Louise Turpin

are under arrest, charged

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with torture and child endangerment.

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Their children are in hospital.

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Our staff is used to taking care

of people who are quite ill,

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they are used to compassionate care,

and so we pull out all the stops,

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so to speak, to make sure

that their privacy is dealt with,

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that they get the appropriate care

and that they are treated

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with dignity and respect at a time

when they need it the most.

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The horror on Muir Woods Road

was uncovered early on Sunday

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morning when a 17-year-old girl

escaped with a mobile phone

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and called the police.

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At the home, officers found 12

siblings and were shocked

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to discover that seven were adults -

the oldest, 29.

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The captives were dirty

and malnourished, say police,

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shackled to their beds with chains

and padlocks in dark

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and foul-smelling surroundings.

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As reporters arrived at the quiet

suburb east of Los Angeles,

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neighbours said they were stunned.

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They were the type that

you didn't really get to know

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anything about them.

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They were very to themselves,

in a sense, clan-ish,

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so they only kept to themselves.

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And the only time you would see

them, you would never see anyone

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visit, you would never see anyone

come outside, all you would really

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see is that they would go out

and maybe make a grocery run

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and that was about it.

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There is no hint at all here of

the grim conditions inside his home.

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The questions about what

happened are mounting.

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Not least, how long were

the siblings held captive and why.

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James Cook, BBC News,

Perris, California.

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John Fenoglio is

a news correspondent

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with KTLA-5 in Los Angeles.

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He told me how the alarm was raised.

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Well, this is truly an horrific

child abuse investigation. What we

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know from police is that early

Sunday morning a young girl called

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for help. She said she was being

held captive, along with her 12

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brothers and sisters, and that some

of them had been shackled to their

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beds with padlocks.

Responding officers found what they

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described as a young, emaciated

girl, they believed to be about ten

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years of age, but in fact she was 17

years old.

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She led police back to their home,

and what officers described was a

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hellish scenario.

Children chained to their beds,

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police could not give an adequate

description as to why they were

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chained to their beds. They were

arrested.

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The parents both arrested. The

officers say what they discovered

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with several people chained to their

beds in dark and foul smelling

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conditions.

You say this girl appeared to be ten

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but was in fact 17, she had called

for help. Had she escaped from a

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house?

According to a police

statement she said she was able to

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escape from the house and take a

cell phone with her. That is how she

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called police and led officers to

her home, that is when officers

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discovered the chilling environment.

John Fenoglio. More on that story

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through the morning.

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Reeta is in the BBC

Newsroom with a summary

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of the rest of the day's news.

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Ministers are trying to limit the

damage caused by the collapse of the

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construction services company

Carillion which went into collapse

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yesterday with debts of around £1.5

billion.

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The firm was involved in a large

number of public building projects,

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including HS2, and holds cleaning

and catering contracts for schools,

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hospitals and prisons.

Chris Mason reports.

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One after another, they came

from all corners of government.

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Are taxpayers going to suffer

as a result of this?

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The march of ministers

into the Cabinet Office for a Cobra

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contingency meeting spoke

to the central truth

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of the collapse of Carillion,

the tentacles of this failed

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business reaching to every part

of the public sector,

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in every part of the UK.

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And they now have to work out

what on earth to do next.

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There is no evidence of chaos.

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The government is working hard

across all Whitehall departments

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to ensure the liquidation

of Carillion takes place

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in an orderly manner that does not

disrupt public services.

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When did the government

first realise...

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Labour accused ministers

of shocking negligence.

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A government representative managing

the relationship between Carillion

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and the public sector was rotated

off the company last summer.

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There was no blindspot,

insist the Conservatives.

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Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn,

in a video to supporters on social

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media, said this was a watershed

moment for the outsource-first dogma

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that has fleeced the public.

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The government insisted

what happened with Carillion showed

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a private business shouldering real

risk, and that there

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had been no bailout.

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It is an insight into the vastly

contrasting instincts of the two

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biggest parties about how

so many of our public

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services are delivered.

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The four-time Olympic champion

gymnast Simone Biles has said

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she was sexually abused by the USA

team doctor, Larry Nassar.

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In a tweet, Simone Biles described

herself as one of many survivors -

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but said she had been reluctant

to speak out until now.

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Larry Nassar was jailed last month

for 60 years for possessing images

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of child sexual abuse -

and is awaiting sentence

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for assaulting other athletes.

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An Australian teenager has been

found alive in the wreckage of his

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car after his father made an

intuitive decision to search them in

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a helicopter. 17-year-old Samuel

Lethbridge was trapped for many

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others. After alerting the police,

his father had a helicopter when he

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recalled a similar local car

accident from about five years ago.

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A BBC investigation has found around

3000 bogus qualifications were

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bought in Britain from the company

in Pakistan.

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The radio programme File On 4 has

said

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said that the qualifications

included doctors and nurses and a

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company which trains for helicopter

pilots also bought qualifications

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for some employees.

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MPs say the manufacturer Whirlpool

hasn't done enough to deal

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with defective tumble dryers

which have caused hundreds of fires.

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The Commons Business Committee said

the response to the problem,

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discovered in 2015, had been woeful.

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Our business correspondent,

Emma Simpson reports.

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A flat in a tower block in west

London engulfed in flames.

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The smoke rising more

than ten stories.

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The blaze itself

damaging five floors.

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It started in this property,

and London Fire Brigade believe

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the cause was a faulty tumble dryer

made by Whirlpool.

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It has had a problem with defective

and potentially dangerous

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tumble dryers since 2015,

when it discovered a defect

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which could cause them to set fire.

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Today, MPs described Whirlpool's

attempts to fix things

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are slow and inadequate.

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Their evidence was woeful.

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Since 2004 they admit there have

been 740 fires in homes caused

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by these tumble dryers,

and yet still today, in 2018,

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there are a million of these tumble

dryers in peoples homes.

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They need to take much

stronger action to get those

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out of people's homes.

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Her parliamentary committee has

looked into the safety

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of electrical goods.

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Among its recommendations,

it wants Whirlpool to deal with any

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faulty machines within a fortnight

of being by customers.

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All manufacturers should make risk

assessments available as soon

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as defects are identified.

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Safer materials to replace

plastic-backed fridge

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freezers, which appear

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to be a significant risk.

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And it wants the Government

to actively explore the creation

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of a single national product safety

agency to improve a system

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which the MPs claim is fragmented

and under resourced.

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Whirlpool says it has helped

the vast majority of customers

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who have come forward so far,

and promises it will now serve

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customers' problems with faulty

machines within a week.

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The Government says Britain's

product safety requirements

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are among the highest in the world

and it has already taken steps

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to improve the current regime.

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The controversial claim that the UK

sends £350 million a week to the EU

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has been described as a "gross

underestimate" by the Foreign

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Secretary, Boris Johnson.

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In an interview with the Guardian

newspaper, Mr Johnson said Britain's

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contribution would rise to almost

£440 million by the end of

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the post-Brexit transition period.

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Vote Leave's claim about the UK's

contribution to the EU was hotly

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disputed during the EU referendum.

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The supermarket chain, Iceland,

has said it will eliminate plastic

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from its own brand products

within five years.

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The retailer said plastic

would be replaced with paper

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which could be recycled.

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The move has been welcomed

by environmental campaigners

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and comes amid growing concern over

plastic pollution in

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the world's oceans.

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New footage has emerged of a car

which became embedded in the first

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floor of an office block in

California.

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-- can video from a bus captures the

moment the car crosses its path

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before flying through the air

towards the building -- dashcam

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video.

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That's a summary of the latest BBC

News - more at 9:30am.

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Unbelievable images. Thank you. A

couple of messages from you on the

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NHS, a tweaked pics of my

introduction when I said some people

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are calling it a winter crisis. She

says some, what planet are you on?

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In Bradford, people have been

transported and fire trucks to

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hospital. Marissa says my father is

in hospital, the NHS have been

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fantastic and helping him. Just a

problem the Aussie flu has put the

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hospital in lockdown, we cannot even

visit. Kiss, Kiss. We will speak to

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a British Australian patient in a

moment about his own experiences,

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nothing to do with the Aussie flu,

but his experience of the NHS. We

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have good and not so good

experiences.

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Let's get some sport now with Hugh,

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who can bring us up to date

with the Australian Open -

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and Jo Konta has been enjoying

the heat, hasn't she?

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Not many people would enjoy the heat

she has. She beat American Madison

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Brengle 6-3, 6-1, ten nudging 40

degrees in Melbourne but Konta

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called it a nice, sunny day. She

grew up in Australia. She enjoys the

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heat. She reached the Australian

open semifinals in 2016, the

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quarterfinals last year, both times

losing to eventual champion.

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She is the ninth seed this year,

under her new coach, Michael Joyce,

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she very much enjoyed herself

against Madison Brengle.

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Next up is another American,

Bernarda Pera, who just ranked 123

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in the world. Konta was able to

focus despite a blueberry tobacco on

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a recent shopping trip!

I went to the supermarket to buy

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Drew Brees, I only bought blue

breeze, two permits. I left Umaga

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Benneteau blooper is there. That is

$5 I will not get back, but it is

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more the betrayal of my own mind

that I felt so upset about the

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blueberries, I was so upset.

The first soft fruit fiasco of the

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year!

Heather Watson went down to Yulia

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Putintseva from Kazakhstan but now

leads 5-4 on soma -- on serve in the

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first set.

That is the latest from the women's

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side of the game.

Johanna Konta has just tweeted that

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she has managed to buy two permits

of blueberries and bring them back

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with her.

Novak Djokovic chin action, what is

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this about a stray?

You would think Johanna Konta has

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the resource to get more

blueberries! Djokovic is seeded 14th

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because he missed much of last year

with an elbow injury. He beat Donald

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Young in straight sets in no time at

all this morning. There were reports

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he held a meeting with players

before the tournament to propose

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forming a new union to try to get

more price money and even suggested

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boycotting the Australian Open next

year to get his way.

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The prize money is in the

single-digit percentage rise of the

0:15:140:15:17

overall revenue of each Grand Slam,

although the

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although the figures remain

impressive, between 28 and £36

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million overall to the players. In

Melbourne the singles winners both

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get £2.3 million. But in the NBA, it

is 50% of the overall sport's

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turnover, so the players currently

represented by the ATP, and Djokovic

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is the president of the players

cancel, reported to want a little

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bit more. He wants more of that

money to go to players outside of

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the top 50. Djokovic has responded

to reports this morning following

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his game against Donald Young, he

feels he has been unfairly

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portrayed. He says there has been no

talk of boycotts and that the story

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has been greatly exaggerated. But

with all the talk over the last five

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to ten years about the prospect of

making sure there is equal price

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money between men and women in

tennis, now there seems to be a

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question being floated by Novak

Djokovic at the least that the

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overall money should be distributed

more fairly to all players.

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This morning - how do we get

to grips with the enormous pressure

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the NHS is under this winter

and in years to come?

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Over the past few weeks,

we've seen A&Es over-crowded,

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a lack of beds and queues

of ambulances stacked up outside

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unable to hand over their patients.

0:16:330:16:35

On top of that as the NHS

approaches its 70th birthday -

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it's having to deal with a growing

and ageing population adding more

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pressure to its services.

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After 10am, we're going

to discuss different ways

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the NHS could be funded

from charging for certain

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services to raising taxes to make

entirely different political

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decisions, but first

we want to hear about your

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experiences of the NHS.

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So many of you got in touch last

week to tell us your stories -

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we wanted to try and get a snapshot

of how hospitals

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are coping right now.

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Do get in touch wherever

you are this morning.

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I'm going to introduce you to a

one-year-old who has been sitting

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here so quietly for 15 minutes and

his mum Lucy is here too. Over

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Christmas the baby had a chest

infection and had to wait nine hours

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for a bed and Lucy a member of the

Labour Party. Dr John Robinson is

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with us. His wife is being treated

for sepsis in hospital and is in a

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critical state. Jordan Berry is

here. He sliced the top off his

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finger and needed an operation. Ruth

just had a knee operation postponed.

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Thank you very much for coming on

the programme. Right, can I give him

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an I plad. Does that make no

difference?

It might help.

That

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tells you about my parenting!

What's that?

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Thank you so much for coming on.

Thank you. John, how is Mavis?

She

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is more stable than she was. She has

been through a traumatic time with

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sepsis which turned into pneumonia

and she got a blood clot in her

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right arm, but as we speak, the

infection is coming under some sort

0:18:340:18:38

of control, but it there has been

setbacks with that and the blood

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clot drugs have been given so

hopefully that will disperse the

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blood clot in the right arm.

You

feel that her condition has been

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exacerbated by the way her case has

been dealt with. Let's begin with

0:18:520:18:55

the arrival of the ambulance on 2nd

January. How long did it take?

Well,

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the doctor came to visit at 12

o'clock. She booked the ambulance

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for two having seen some other

important patients she had to see.

0:19:040:19:08

The ambulance never came until nine

o'clock so we waited seven hours and

0:19:080:19:12

that was despite ringing up on

several occasions to be told after

0:19:120:19:16

four hours, you know, it should be

there. You should be getting near

0:19:160:19:20

the top of the list. In fact, there

is no list. Other people come up,

0:19:200:19:24

you just drop down.

And when she was

taken to hospital, did she get a

0:19:240:19:27

bed?

Well, she didn't. We were

assured by the GP that she would

0:19:270:19:31

have a bed waiting for her, that

just didn't materialise at all.

When

0:19:310:19:35

did she get a bed?

She got a bed at

four o'clock the next day, so that

0:19:350:19:40

was after 18 hours in A&E.

Right.

Now, could you see that staff were

0:19:400:19:44

overstretched at that time?

I think

so, yeah. They were absolutely

0:19:440:19:49

flooded with patients in the major

incident unit. And the normal A&E

0:19:490:19:55

was seething. There was hundreds of

people in there.

Hill loining

0:19:550:19:59

don't's Hospital NHS Trust told us,

"All our staff are working flat-out

0:19:590:20:03

to minimise the time patients wait

to be seen. The unprecedented demand

0:20:030:20:09

we have experienced in recent weeks

left us operating at our full bed

0:20:090:20:13

capacity resulting in delays to

admissions and we deeply regret that

0:20:130:20:17

patients are having to wait." Do you

accept that?

Well, I accept that it

0:20:170:20:21

is not down, you know, the hospital

is just overload. There have been so

0:20:210:20:27

many cuts, having spoken to various

people in general practice, there

0:20:270:20:31

have been cuts across the whole

service, the bed-blocking that's

0:20:310:20:34

taking place because the people

cannot come out of the wards, where

0:20:340:20:38

my wife has been admitted to,

because...

It is really interesting

0:20:380:20:41

you say that because as you know,

NHS budgets in England have been

0:20:410:20:47

ring-fenced since 2010, but there

has been cuts to social care which

0:20:470:20:50

is elderly people in particular

going back into the community, £6

0:20:500:20:53

billion worth of cuts in that area

and it is interesting that you say

0:20:530:20:57

they were telling you it is because

of that bed-blocking that it is

0:20:570:21:01

really exacerbating the problem?

Yes. Yes. We are in the situation

0:21:010:21:04

where I can see in the ward that my

wife is in, with 60 people, they are

0:21:040:21:10

aged people. They are clearly going

to have a hell of a job releasing

0:21:100:21:14

the beds. When my wife went to A&E

that day, there were 20 beds, people

0:21:140:21:21

waiting for 20 beds were required

and some people waited up to 22

0:21:210:21:24

hours.

Gosh.

For a bed.

OK. Let me

bring in Jordan. Hi.

Hi.

We can see

0:21:240:21:29

you hurt your finger. It was more

than that, you actually sliced the

0:21:290:21:33

top of it, because you dropped a 34

kilogramme dumbbell on it Ouch.

It

0:21:330:21:40

hurt a lot.

You went to hospital in

a cab because you waited over an

0:21:400:21:47

hour for an ambulance?

Around about

an hour. It was a busy festive

0:21:470:21:51

period and you know I knew I could

make my way myself to the hospital.

0:21:510:21:55

So...

When you got there, how were

you treated?

I was treated

0:21:550:22:00

fantastically, as soon as I got

there, I could see it was brimming

0:22:000:22:04

with people. Being the festive

period, but they could see that I

0:22:040:22:08

was in acute, severe pain and they

brought me into a ward straightaway,

0:22:080:22:12

got me the great care that I needed.

I had three staff there in with me,

0:22:120:22:18

caring for me, and I thought that

they were very amicable and very

0:22:180:22:22

understanding, very caring.

Ultimately a really positive

0:22:220:22:27

experience

Oh yeah, world-class

experience. Very, very happy with

0:22:270:22:30

it.

Do you think that when people

are critical or feel that the NHS

0:22:300:22:37

deserves some criticism or the

system or whatever bit of the NHS

0:22:370:22:42

they want to criticise, they

shouldn't voice that?

I think that

0:22:420:22:46

it is OK to voice their experiences.

However, I think that it's very good

0:22:460:22:51

to have, you know, a bird's eye view

on things. I think that it's a bit

0:22:510:22:56

too much kind of generalise and

state that the NHS is in a crisis

0:22:560:23:01

because if you look recently like,

you know, with the high waits for

0:23:010:23:07

ambulance and ambulances because

there has been the uncertainty

0:23:070:23:11

thrown up over Brexit, you know,

with EU employees leaving the

0:23:110:23:17

Ambulance Service. Until all of that

is resolved, will we get raet

0:23:170:23:25

concrete answers on the Ambulance

Service. So I think it is important

0:23:250:23:27

to wait until that's all resolved

and not only that, we've had the flu

0:23:270:23:33

crisis as well with the Australian

flu coming on as well and because it

0:23:330:23:38

is winter and there is going to be a

higher amount of people within the

0:23:380:23:41

hospital, we need to take that into

view as to why that would increase

0:23:410:23:44

the amount of people in hospitals at

this current time.

0:23:440:23:51

Lucy, Remis was admitted a week

before Christmas. How was he treated

0:23:510:23:54

and cared for?

The treatment was

amazing. It was just the wait time

0:23:540:23:58

for him to get a bed that was really

difficult because we were receiving

0:23:580:24:01

treatment in the waiting room prior

to getting the bed, but I couldn't

0:24:010:24:05

fault the staff at all. You could

see the strain they were under.

How

0:24:050:24:08

long did it take?

We got admitted to

hospital, well we got referred by

0:24:080:24:13

the GP, we got to hospital at two

o'clock and we didn't get a bed

0:24:130:24:17

until about half past nine at night

and throughout that time he was

0:24:170:24:21

receiving treatment in the waiting

room in, in a public waiting room.

0:24:210:24:25

Where there other patients being

treated in the waiting room at the

0:24:250:24:28

same time?

Assessments, to see if

they were going to be admitted or to

0:24:280:24:32

go home. Yeah, lots of other

patients.

Clearly, you saw staff

0:24:320:24:36

under pressure.

Yeah.

Did you ever

feel it affected the way they did

0:24:360:24:40

their job?

No, I think they remained

professional throughout. There is no

0:24:400:24:44

doubt in my mind.

How is he now?

He's so much better now. He's poorly

0:24:440:24:50

on and off since September, but with

new medication that he has had, well

0:24:500:24:54

you can see he is fine now.

And your

hospital in Cornwall say they are

0:24:540:25:02

sorry for any delay and subsequent

admissions to a hospital ward, our

0:25:020:25:06

staff have been making heroic

efforts to meet the demand for our

0:25:060:25:10

services and to provide good, safe

care. Let me bring in Ruth who is in

0:25:100:25:16

Staffordshire, hello Ruth, you run a

printing business and you have

0:25:160:25:23

Rheumatoid Arthritis, you have had

it since you were a child and you

0:25:230:25:26

were due to have a knee operation

and what happened to the operation?

0:25:260:25:28

Well, it was cancelled just

yesterday morning actually. I had

0:25:280:25:31

assumed when I heard the news about

January operations being cancelled

0:25:310:25:34

that maybe, you know, I would be one

of them, but I didn't hear, you know

0:25:340:25:38

from the hospital until yesterday.

And the operation, I think, was due

0:25:380:25:42

Thursday, wasn't it?

Yes.

So news of

the cancellation, what impact does

0:25:420:25:46

that have on you and you trying to

go about your daily life, which

0:25:460:25:50

involves two children and running

your own business?

Well, it is

0:25:500:25:54

difficult for me because partly I

have to come off some of my

0:25:540:25:58

medicines in order to be able to

have the operation because I have an

0:25:580:26:03

over active immune system, I have to

be on immune suppressing drugs and

0:26:030:26:06

some have to be stopped for weeks

before the operation. So I put

0:26:060:26:09

myself into quite a flair up of the

disease by coming off the meds. So

0:26:090:26:16

it's and also have lined up a lot of

help and support for me whilst I was

0:26:160:26:20

in hospital to look after my

children and pick them up from

0:26:200:26:24

school and look after my dog and all

that sort of thing. Yeah, it is

0:26:240:26:29

disruptive, but it is disappointing.

The hospital says they would like to

0:26:290:26:37

alpoll jaous, but say that all

operations will resume at the

0:26:370:26:41

beginning of February which...

I

mean I just want to say, I don't

0:26:410:26:45

think it is the hospital's fault at

all. They made this clear they were

0:26:450:26:50

under orders and they were following

the orders that they had been given.

0:26:500:26:54

So, you know, the surgeon and the

nurses have been wonderful to me

0:26:540:26:57

there.

I'm going to try and read

some messages.

0:26:570:27:06

You can have a look as well Remis.

There are various experiences. Now

0:27:060:27:14

it has frozen.

I'm sorry.

It is not

your fault. The computer says no. I

0:27:140:27:20

will read them later.

Thank you very much all of tu for

0:27:200:27:23

coming on the programme. Thank you,

Remis. Thank you very much.

0:27:230:27:36

Remis. Thank you very much. After

10am, we are going to talk about

0:27:360:27:38

different funding suggestions for

the NHS. We heard from a

0:27:380:27:42

Conservative MP that might include

re-branding and redirecting national

0:27:420:27:46

insurance so it becomes national

health insurance. It might be down

0:27:460:27:51

to different political decisions. It

might be about charging for certain

0:27:510:27:54

services. If you have views on that,

if you have proposals, suggestions,

0:27:540:27:59

let me know because we're going to

talk about other solutions after

0:27:590:28:03

10am when it comes to the funding

crisis.

0:28:030:28:08

An alleged victim

of the football coach

0:28:080:28:11

Barry Bennell has told a court

that he was repeatedly abused

0:28:110:28:13

on visits to Butlins in North Wales

and on trips to Spain.

0:28:130:28:16

Our reporter Jon Donnison has

been following the trial

0:28:160:28:18

at Liverpool Crown Court.

0:28:180:28:23

Fill us in John from yesterday.

This

is the trial of 64-year-old Barry

0:28:230:28:27

Bennell. He is known as Richard

Jones. We've got pictures of him,

0:28:270:28:33

drawings appearing in Liverpool

Crown Court by videolink because of

0:28:330:28:36

ill-health yesterday. The court

heard from an alleged victim who

0:28:360:28:40

said he was abused after being

spotted playing for alschool

0:28:400:28:44

football team. Mr Bennell denies

four counts of bug Riaz the offence

0:28:440:28:49

was then called against this man who

would have been a teenager at the

0:28:490:28:53

time of the alleged abuse.

Yesterday, the man gave evidence

0:28:530:28:57

anonymously from behind a screen. He

was asked about the final time he

0:28:570:29:02

was allegedly abused. He said he

felt the lowest I have ever felt in

0:29:020:29:06

my life. I was a biggish, strongish

14-year-old lad and I felt like I

0:29:060:29:12

had been raped.

And there were allegations Barry

0:29:120:29:15

Bennell then contact that had player

years later?

Yes, this was in Twinl.

0:29:150:29:21

He says Mr Bennell sent him a

Facebook message or he believes he

0:29:210:29:25

did, although using an account under

a different name. He TVed that the

0:29:250:29:31

message said, "Good to see you have

a family and are enjoying life. I

0:29:310:29:35

got cancer a while back and it left

me in a mess. Pay back I hear you're

0:29:350:29:40

saying, well, I understand that if

you could find time, could you drop

0:29:400:29:44

me a line saying how your life is

going?" The complainant said he

0:29:440:29:48

didn't reply to that message of the

he was then asked under

0:29:480:29:52

cross-examination about £2,000 in

compensation, he was awarded after

0:29:520:29:56

Mr Bennell pleaded guilty to

offences in 1998. Asked if he felt

0:29:560:30:03

aggrieved about that amount, he said

I have felt aggrieved for years.

0:30:030:30:09

£2,000, it makes no difference. The

court heard the same man-made a

0:30:090:30:14

statement in 1994 in which he

accused Mr Bennell of attempted

0:30:140:30:19

buggery. He was asked why he did not

allege the more serious offence of

0:30:190:30:25

buggery, he said, "I wasn't strong

enough and I wasn't brave enough."

0:30:250:30:28

Mr Bennell is on trial for a total

of 48 charges against 11 boys and he

0:30:280:30:33

denies the charges and the trial

continues.

Thank you very much,

0:30:330:30:37

John, we will bring you up-to-date

with the trial every morning at

0:30:370:30:41

around this time on this programme.

0:30:410:30:44

Still to come...

0:30:440:30:45

A BBC investigation has found

a multi million pound diploma mill

0:30:450:30:48

in Pakistan which is

churning out fake degrees.

0:30:480:30:50

UK nations are buying them

up in their thousands,

0:30:500:30:52

We speak to someone whose job

0:30:520:30:54

is to check if degrees

are genuine or not.

0:30:540:30:57

-- UK nationals are buying them up

in their thousands.

0:30:570:31:00

Four times Olympic champion -

Simone Biles has revealed

0:31:000:31:02

that she was sexually abused

by Larry Nassar the gymnastics

0:31:020:31:04

doctor for Team USA.

0:31:040:31:05

We'll be talking to a former gymnast

later in the programme.

0:31:050:31:13

Time for the latest news.

0:31:170:31:19

Here's Reeta.

0:31:190:31:20

Thirteen brothers and sisters

between the ages of two

0:31:200:31:22

and 29 have been discovered

in a malnourished and dirty state

0:31:220:31:25

at their home in California.

0:31:250:31:26

Their parents have been

charged with torture

0:31:260:31:28

and child endangerment.

0:31:280:31:30

Some of the children had been

chained to their beds.

0:31:300:31:33

The alarm was raised on Sunday,

when one girl escaped

0:31:330:31:35

and alerted the authorities.

0:31:350:31:39

The four-time Olympic champion

gymnast Simone Biles

0:31:390:31:40

has said she was sexually abused

by the USA team

0:31:400:31:43

doctor, Larry Nassar.

0:31:430:31:46

In a tweet, Simone Biles

described herself

0:31:460:31:48

as one of many survivors -

but said she had been reluctant

0:31:480:31:51

to speak out until now.

0:31:510:31:54

Larry Nassar was jailed last month

for 60-years for possessing images

0:31:540:31:56

of child sexual abuse -

and is awaiting sentence

0:31:560:31:59

for assaulting other athletes.

0:31:590:32:03

The future of some major

construction projects and hundreds

0:32:030:32:05

of public service contracts hang

in the balance this

0:32:050:32:08

morning after the

collapse of Carillion.

0:32:080:32:14

Britain's second largest

construction firm -

0:32:140:32:16

which also holds cleaning

0:32:160:32:17

and catering contracts for schools,

hospitals and prisons -

0:32:170:32:19

went into liquidation yesterday

with debts of around

0:32:190:32:21

£1.5 billion.

0:32:210:32:26

MPs say the manufacturer Whirlpool

hasn't done enough to deal

0:32:260:32:29

with defective tumble dryers

which have caused hundreds of fires.

0:32:290:32:31

The Commons Business Committee said

the response to the problem,

0:32:310:32:33

discovered in 2015, had been woeful.

0:32:330:32:36

It also said that it was

"unacceptable" that more

0:32:360:32:38

than one million potentially

dangerous dryers were still being

0:32:380:32:40

used in people's homes.

0:32:400:32:42

The company insists its repair

campaign has been successful.

0:32:420:32:49

That's a summary of

the latest BBC News.

0:32:490:32:57

News just in, the latest inflation

figures, the rate of Consumer Prices

0:32:570:33:02

Index inflation fell to 3% in

December, from 3.1% in November.

0:33:020:33:08

That just in from the Office of

National Statistics, inflation has

0:33:080:33:12

fallen slightly from 3% of... Sorry,

from 3.1% in November to 3% in

0:33:120:33:17

December.

I now have some of your comments

0:33:170:33:23

about the situation in the NHS. Lots

of you say there are times in many

0:33:230:33:28

people in A&E that only to be there.

Hallett says I have been to St

0:33:280:33:33

George's Hospital in tooting, that

A&E twice in the last three months.

0:33:330:33:38

I was triage, blood tested and

scanned within 2.25 hours. I got the

0:33:380:33:42

impression that half the patients

there did not need to be there.

0:33:420:33:45

Katy Dunne to it as it is time the

many goods A&E because they can't

0:33:450:33:50

get GP appointments.

James says granddaughter broke her

0:33:500:33:53

arm over Christmas. She got fast and

first class treatment from the

0:33:530:33:56

hospital.

But whilst on the waiting area a man

0:33:560:33:59

and his partner were swearing at

staff because others were seen

0:33:590:34:03

before him.

He was boasting how he had beaten a

0:34:030:34:05

guide the night before and had cuts

to his knuckles as a result.

0:34:050:34:09

Most people would have sold their

hands and anti-septic and

0:34:090:34:11

anti-septic address this at home.

Some doctors have got in touch.

0:34:110:34:17

Aussie flu is causing havoc with

primary care services in hospital

0:34:170:34:21

attendances, says Doctor Singh. It

is not too later the flu jab, we're

0:34:210:34:26

running special flu vaccination

clinics, please remind people.

0:34:260:34:30

Dan says I am a doctor in the NHS,

please correct anyone who says it is

0:34:300:34:34

free. It is not. The paper it

through taxation, which is the most

0:34:340:34:39

efficient way of funding health

care.

0:34:390:34:41

The problem is not how we are

funding the NHS, but how much we

0:34:410:34:45

have cut, 14,000 beds in 2010.

We will talk about different ways of

0:34:450:34:50

funding the NHS in a sustainable

way, that is the issue. After 10am,

0:34:500:34:55

your proposals are very welcome.

0:34:550:34:56

Now the sport.

0:34:560:34:57

Johanna Konta is through to the

second round of the Australian Open.

0:34:570:35:00

She's the ninth seed in Melbourne

this year and beat Madison Brengle

0:35:000:35:03

in straight sets in temperatures

approaching 40 degrees.

0:35:030:35:11

She had no problems with that,

having grown up in Australia.

0:35:130:35:16

A similar story for Novak Djokovic.

0:35:160:35:17

He had an easy win

over Donald Young.

0:35:170:35:19

Djokovic is only seeded 14th

in Melbourne after missing

0:35:190:35:22

the second half of last year

with an elbow injury.

0:35:220:35:24

Manchester United have reduced

Manchester City's lead at the top

0:35:240:35:26

of the Premier League to 12 points

after beating Stoke last night.

0:35:260:35:31

They won 3-0 at Old Trafford

with new Stoke boss Paul Lambert

0:35:310:35:34

watching from the stands.

0:35:340:35:37

Anthony Martial micro-2-macro others

scored. -- Anthony Martial and two

0:35:370:35:44

others scored.

0:35:440:35:45

United could have a major signing

in the next few days too.

0:35:450:35:48

Manchester City have ended

their interest in Alexis Sanchez.

0:35:480:35:50

So United and now we understand

Chelsea too are battling to sign

0:35:500:35:53

the Chilean from Arsenal.

0:35:530:35:59

Much more coming up just after 10am.

0:35:590:36:01

Thousands of UK nationals

have bought fake degrees

0:36:010:36:03

from a multi-million pound "diploma

mill" in Pakistan, a BBC

0:36:030:36:06

investigation has found.

0:36:060:36:11

Buyers include NHS consultants,

nurses and a large

0:36:110:36:13

defence contractor.

0:36:130:36:14

One British buyer spent almost

£500,000 on bogus documents.

0:36:140:36:21

The claims are being made

in BBC Radio 4's File

0:36:210:36:24

on four programme -

reporter Simon Cox can tell us more.

0:36:240:36:30

Tell us what you have discovered.

3000 fake degrees had been bought by

0:36:300:36:37

people in Britain. They came from a

company called Exact, based in

0:36:370:36:42

Pakistan. They are not just fluffing

up people see these, they are

0:36:420:36:46

doctors working in the NHS, nurses,

lawyers, psychologists. The

0:36:460:36:50

interesting thing is knowing did

they use them to get their job? They

0:36:500:36:55

are lots of their professional

profiles, if they use them to get

0:36:550:36:59

their job they could be breaking the

law and they could be prosecuted for

0:36:590:37:02

fraud.

You manage to buy one?

I went

0:37:020:37:07

online, there are hundreds of these.

They look pretty legitimate when you

0:37:070:37:10

at them, they tend to claim they are

US universities. You go online, I

0:37:100:37:19

was going for a degree in business

management, which I know nothing

0:37:190:37:23

about and in ten minutes I could

have bought it for 2500. I could

0:37:230:37:28

have got a Masters or PhD if I

wanted. They even show you what the

0:37:280:37:32

degree would look like when they

send it to you.

I have a load

0:37:320:37:36

printed out. This is Williamsburg

University, I don't know if you can

0:37:360:37:40

see. The Board of Trustees,

accordance with the recommendation

0:37:400:37:45

of the faculty coming confers upon,

insert your own name, the degree,

0:37:450:37:50

bachelor of laws, upper second

class. I'm a bit of rubbishy paper

0:37:500:37:54

with the rubbish printed it does not

look amazing, but you could make it

0:37:540:37:58

look amazing. -- on a bit of

rubbishy paper.

They will send you

0:37:580:38:03

extra courses, they will show you

the courses you are meant to have

0:38:030:38:07

taken. They were very blatant about

it.

0:38:070:38:13

it. Some people got back in touch

and said you are not a university,

0:38:140:38:17

you do not exist, and they tried to

bluff it. They said they were in

0:38:170:38:22

America, one said Washington, the

other California. Even when you

0:38:220:38:26

confront them they try to maintain

this fiction that they are a real

0:38:260:38:31

university.

One company, having sold

a fraudulent degree, tried to

0:38:310:38:38

blackmail the buyer of

aforementioned fake degree?

This

0:38:380:38:44

company, Exact, sold over 200,000 of

these globally. They thought they

0:38:440:38:48

had a great database of people who

they thought they could blackmail.

0:38:480:38:52

They did this with lots of people.

We looked at one case of a guy

0:38:520:38:57

called Cecil Horner who works in

Saudi Arabia for 20 years, died in

0:38:570:39:02

2015, we spoke to his son Malcolm.

He was going to his De Plus my

0:39:020:39:07

papers, found his dad had bought

some fake degrees but also he had

0:39:070:39:10

been blackmailed -- he went through

his dad plus my papers.

0:39:100:39:18

It became clear it was just

acquiring qualifications, it was

0:39:180:39:22

then chasing him up, having done

that, to essentially blackmail him,

0:39:220:39:31

saying you have got degrees that are

not official, we will report you to

0:39:310:39:35

the Foreign Office, they will kick

you out of the country, you will

0:39:350:39:38

lose your job, you are not qualified

to your job. And that... And that

0:39:380:39:45

clearly gotten scared and very wound

up.

0:39:450:39:50

What is interesting about his case,

he is the person that you mention,

0:39:500:39:54

almost £500,000. One person per

payment, then he paid almost

0:39:540:40:00

£500,000 to this company or the four

years. -- a £1000 payment, then he

0:40:000:40:06

paid almost £500,000 to this

company.

And that programme is on at

0:40:060:40:10

APM tonight. -- at 8pm.

0:40:100:40:15

We can speak now to Jayne Rowley,

who is from Higher Education

0:40:150:40:17

Degree Datacheck -

the UK organisation which checks

0:40:170:40:19

whether degrees are valid or not.

0:40:190:40:21

And to David d'Souza

from the Chartered Institute

0:40:210:40:23

of Personnel and Development,

which is the professional body

0:40:230:40:25

for people working in HR

for employers across the UK.

0:40:250:40:27

Thank you both for joining us.

Jayne, how do you react to what

0:40:270:40:32

Simon Cox has discovered?

I am not

shocked at all. We have been aware

0:40:320:40:36

of the problem for quite some time.

I am saddened that people are being

0:40:360:40:43

blackmailed, there are innocent

victims, but it stems from the fact

0:40:430:40:45

that employees do not make proper

checks, so people can get away with

0:40:450:40:50

fake certificates, fake universities

thrive.

0:40:500:40:53

Let me bring in David, from the

chartered Institute of personnel and

0:40:530:40:57

development. Employers do not make

proper checks?

Large-scale employers

0:40:570:41:02

like the NHS make proper checks.

Tend to

I cannot vouch for every

0:41:020:41:08

employer but I think the NHS will

make scrupulous checks. There

0:41:080:41:18

make scrupulous checks. There is a

difference between employers

0:41:180:41:19

expressing a preference for a degree

and not checking, and professions

0:41:190:41:21

that really require professional

qualifications. They will be

0:41:210:41:23

thoroughly checked.

In terms of your

organisation, Jayne, how do you help

0:41:230:41:29

employers spot potential fake

qualifications on job applications?

0:41:290:41:33

Sometimes it is very difficult. You

can look out for use of language,

0:41:330:41:37

spelling and grammar, but the only

certain way to Chequers to contact

0:41:370:41:42

the universities directly, they have

the qualifications in their

0:41:420:41:45

database. That can be done quickly

easily directly with the

0:41:450:41:52

universities, or through Head. Some

of the fake certificates look really

0:41:520:41:55

good and lots of employers are

fools.

What is your advice? About

--

0:41:550:42:04

lots of employers are fooled.

They

need to check qualifications, and

0:42:040:42:09

throughout the interview process

they need to check they are doing

0:42:090:42:12

things the relief. It should never

be a surprise that somebody does not

0:42:120:42:16

have a qualification. They could

really scrutinise whether people

0:42:160:42:19

actually needs a degree to do the

job. One of the things we are

0:42:190:42:23

proliferating in the UK is that

people put down we would like people

0:42:230:42:25

to have a degree as a preference,

which makes it harder for people to

0:42:250:42:30

move and encourages people to go to

fake universities.

Does it? Why?

0:42:300:42:35

Just because an employer requires

something does not mean you have to

0:42:350:42:40

life.

But if your job does not

require degree standard

0:42:400:42:44

qualifications and you put it

anyway, it is frustrating to

0:42:440:42:47

candidates to feel locked out of an

opportunity that they have the

0:42:470:42:51

experience to deliver, they might

have an apprenticeship in or a

0:42:510:42:54

suitable background.

So do you have some sympathy with

0:42:540:42:58

applicants who buy fake degrees

because a job description requires

0:42:580:43:01

that?

I don't think I have sympathy,

you should never lie in those

0:43:010:43:06

circumstances, but it is a tough

economy and employers are not

0:43:060:43:09

thinking about how they can be more

inclusive. It invites people to take

0:43:090:43:14

short cuts.

Is that a fair point,

Jayne, people are encouraged to take

0:43:140:43:18

short cuts because employers do not

think very hard about whether a job

0:43:180:43:25

requires a degree?

It can be

difficult when people feel they have

0:43:250:43:28

the skills, but at the point which

you put something down on a CV or

0:43:280:43:32

job application which is not true,

an employer has to question himself

0:43:320:43:36

about that person's integrity. Do

you want somebody in your

0:43:360:43:41

organisation who has lied to get in?

Employers need to think about the

0:43:410:43:45

skill sets required and the

qualifications, but applicants

0:43:450:43:49

should not lie about.

Thank you, Jayne and David.

0:43:490:43:58

File on 4: Degrees

of Deception is on BBC

0:43:590:44:01

Radio 4 tonight at 8pm

0:44:010:44:05

Cunningham, the TUC is calling on

the Government to come up with a

0:44:050:44:08

task force the collapse of

Carillion. -- coming up, the TUC is.

0:44:080:44:20

Four-time Olympic champion

Simone Biles says she was sexually

0:44:200:44:22

abused by former Team USA gymnastics

sports doctor Larry Nassar.

0:44:220:44:27

Many of you will remember

Simone Biles from the Rio Olympics -

0:44:270:44:32

she wowed everyone with her amazing

performances and was dubbed

0:44:320:44:35

"untouchable" and the "greatest

gymnast anyone had ever seen".

0:44:350:44:37

Now in an emotional statement

she says that she too was one

0:44:370:44:40

of those abused by Nassar

but that she would not let him

0:44:400:44:43

steal her "love" and joy".

0:44:430:44:44

Nassar was jailed for 60 years

for possessing child sex

0:44:440:44:46

abuse images and has also

admitted assaulting gymnasts.

0:44:460:44:52

This is Simone Biles'

full statement:

0:44:520:44:59

Most of you know me as a happy,

giggly and energetic girl, but

0:45:000:45:05

lately I have felt a bit broken, and

the more I try to shut off the voice

0:45:050:45:09

in my head, the loaded screens. I am

not afraid to tell my story any

0:45:090:45:14

more.

I too and one of the many survivors

0:45:140:45:18

is that was sexually abuse by Larry

Nassar. Please believe me when I say

0:45:180:45:23

it was a lot harder to first speak

those words out loud than it is now

0:45:230:45:27

to put them on paper. There are many

reasons that I have been reluctant

0:45:270:45:31

to share my story, but I now know it

is not my fault. It is not normal to

0:45:310:45:39

receive any type of treatment from a

trusted team physician and refer to

0:45:390:45:43

it horrifyingly as the special

treatment. This behaviour is

0:45:430:45:50

completely unacceptable, disgusting

and abusive. Especially coming from

0:45:500:45:54

someone whom I was told to trust.

For too long I have asked myself,

0:45:540:46:00

was I too naive, wasn't my fault? I

now know the answer to those

0:46:000:46:06

questions. No. No, it was not my

fault. No, I will not and should not

0:46:060:46:12

carry the guilt belongs to Larry

Nassar, USA G and others. It is

0:46:120:46:17

impossible for me... It is

impossibly difficult to relive these

0:46:170:46:25

experience and it breaks my heart

more to think that as I worked

0:46:250:46:28

towards my G Mosse working towards

Tokyo 2020, I will have to return to

0:46:280:46:33

the same training of facility where

it abused.

0:46:330:46:36

After hearing the break stories of

my friends and other survivors, I

0:46:360:46:40

know that this horrific experience

does not define me. I am much more

0:46:400:46:45

than this. I am unique, smart,

talented, motivated and passionate.

0:46:450:46:52

I have promised myself that my story

will be much greater than this, and

0:46:520:46:56

I promise all of you that I will

never give up. I will compete with

0:46:560:47:00

all of my heart and soul every time

I step into the gym. I love this

0:47:000:47:06

board too much and I have never been

a quitter. I won't let one man and

0:47:060:47:11

the others that enabled him to steal

my love and joy. We need to know why

0:47:110:47:18

this was able to take place for so

long and to so many of us. We need

0:47:180:47:23

to make sure something like this

never happens again. As I continue

0:47:230:47:28

to work through the pain, I kindly

ask everyone to respect my privacy.

0:47:280:47:34

This is a process, and one that I

need more time to work through.

0:47:340:47:38

Kiss, hug, Simone Biles.

0:47:380:47:41

Larry Nassar was involved

with the US gymnastics programme

0:47:420:47:46

from the 1980s until July 2015,

when the sport's national

0:47:460:47:48

governing body sacked him.

0:47:480:47:49

As well as Simone Biles,

three other former US

0:47:490:47:54

Olympians have accused him

of sexual abuse under the guise

0:47:540:47:57

of medical treatment,

and more than 130 women have

0:47:570:48:01

filed civil lawsuits

against him alleging abuse.

0:48:010:48:05

One of those Olympic gymnasts

is Aly Raisman, who spoke

0:48:050:48:07

about the abuse to American TV.

0:48:070:48:11

Why are we looking at why didn't the

girls speak up? Why not look at what

0:48:110:48:15

about the culture? What did US

gymnastics do and Larry Nassar do to

0:48:150:48:21

manipulate these girls so much that

they are so afraid to speak up?

0:48:210:48:24

You're angry?

I am angry. I'm really

upset because it has been, I dare a

0:48:240:48:29

lot, you know, when I see these

young girls that come up to me and

0:48:290:48:33

they ask for pictures or autographs

or whatever it is, every time I look

0:48:330:48:38

at them, every time I see them

smiling, I just think, I just want

0:48:380:48:42

to create change so that they never

ever have to go that.

0:48:420:48:48

We can speak now to Craig Heap -

a former Commonwealth Games Gold

0:48:480:48:51

medal winning gymnast,

who also went to Sydney Olympics

0:48:510:48:53

and has gone on to

coach and commentate.

0:48:530:48:55

He's also just about

to set up own gym.

0:48:550:48:57

And to Martha Kelner,

a journalist, who's investigated

0:48:570:49:02

a British gymnastics coach over

claims of child neglect and physical

0:49:020:49:04

and emotional abuse.

0:49:040:49:07

Thank you for talking to us. Craig

Heap, how do you react to what

0:49:070:49:12

Simone Biles has told the world?

Well, I've just listened to the

0:49:120:49:16

statement again and I just feel

physically sick to believe that, you

0:49:160:49:20

know, something like this system of

abuse has gone on for so long and no

0:49:200:49:26

action has been taken and it does,

it sends a shiver down your spine. I

0:49:260:49:31

certainly think in about the new

business I'm going into, hopefully

0:49:310:49:35

set up a new gymnastic academy, it

is a beautiful sport which has been

0:49:350:49:40

tarnished by the actions, not only

by Larry Nassar, but it seems like a

0:49:400:49:45

host of people that have covered it

up and it's a time now where action

0:49:450:49:50

needs to be taken. There is

questions that need to be answered

0:49:500:49:55

and people need to be punished for

what's gone on.

Yes. Martha, Craig

0:49:550:50:02

says that it seems other people have

covered it up and from Simone Biles'

0:50:020:50:06

statement she said she was told to

trust this man. I mean, that is just

0:50:060:50:10

shocking, isn't it?

I think that's

what makes this case so serious and

0:50:100:50:17

so horrifying really. It's the abuse

of that power. It's a man who these

0:50:170:50:22

young women put their trust in and

he, you know, he took advantage of

0:50:220:50:27

that in the worst possible way and I

think you can really hear the anger

0:50:270:50:32

both in Simone Biles written

statement, but also Ali Raisman, she

0:50:320:50:39

is seething. It is quite clear she

is very angry at the treatment that

0:50:390:50:45

she received from USA gymnastics and

there probably has to be a look at

0:50:450:50:49

the whistle-blowing and the

procedures within that organisation

0:50:490:50:52

because those young women felt like

they couldn't speak up.

I wonder if

0:50:520:50:58

it is something unique to gymnastics

in this respect in that you can

0:50:580:51:04

reach an elite level at such a young

age in gymnastics, can't you?

It is

0:51:040:51:08

an early specialised sport and

that's one of the problems is

0:51:080:51:11

because you have young people

involved in physical activity, and

0:51:110:51:16

unfortunately the world we live in,

this area is where these people will

0:51:160:51:21

target groups to get involved. I

think the biggest shock to me is

0:51:210:51:25

that this guy has been involved

since the 1980s. The gymnasts have

0:51:250:51:31

felt that they can't speak out.

There has been maybe some sort of

0:51:310:51:36

cover-up. And at what point do you

go that's acceptable, enough is

0:51:360:51:43

enough.

0:51:430:51:49

enough. They have had success and

maybe in the past, the gymnasts have

0:51:490:51:53

said to the coaches, "I'm not happy

about this sort of treatment." Maybe

0:51:530:51:57

the coaches have said, "Well, you

know, some of these things, you just

0:51:570:52:01

have to put up with because of the

coaches desire to be successful. I

0:52:010:52:08

think the whole system really needs

looking at and the coaches of these

0:52:080:52:13

gymnasts, you know, if the gymnasts

have said this tomb, "I'm being

0:52:130:52:20

abused." What have the coaches done

about it? I have had a fantastic

0:52:200:52:24

relationship with all my coaches and

I have been lucky enough to have

0:52:240:52:27

been in a system where I have not

seen any of this abuse, but I felt

0:52:270:52:30

that I had a strong enough

relationship with my coach he would

0:52:300:52:34

have definitely done something about

it. So there are lots of questions

0:52:340:52:40

not only for USA gymness Aks, but

for the coaches of these gymnasts if

0:52:400:52:46

they have raised their concerns.

Martha, in this country, as far as I

0:52:460:52:50

am aware, at the top level of

gymnasts there have been no claims

0:52:500:52:54

of sexual abuse, but from your

investigations there has been claims

0:52:540:52:57

of physical abuse and allegations of

emotional abuse. Remind our audience

0:52:570:53:01

about those?

Yeah, I think it is key

to say that there is not been any

0:53:010:53:06

allegations of that seriousness, but

I think you can also under estimate

0:53:060:53:10

how much of a toll physical and

particularly emotional abuse takes

0:53:100:53:14

and there have been numerous

allegations in recent years about

0:53:140:53:18

emotional abuse and there was a

police investigation last year into

0:53:180:53:23

a coach who was abused of

emotionally abusing female athletes

0:53:230:53:27

within their care. So, we do have to

be vigilant of those cases and I

0:53:270:53:33

think Craig and yourself mentioned

there about how young an age you do

0:53:330:53:40

become an elite gymness and female

gymnasts can go to the Olympics aged

0:53:400:53:45

16 and for male gymnasts it is 18.

So I wonder whether maybe female

0:53:450:53:49

gymnasts are more vulnerable to

abuse if there is more of a chance

0:53:490:53:52

of them being exploited in that way.

OK.

0:53:520:53:58

I wonder Craig, I mean you heard in

Simone Biles statement that she is

0:53:580:54:05

going to have to go back to this

training facility to preparing for

0:54:050:54:11

Tokyo 2020, the very facility where

she says the sexual abuse happened.

0:54:110:54:15

I mean, I think that's ridiculous.

If USA gymnastics are talking about

0:54:150:54:21

change and moving forward, the first

thing they need to do is build a new

0:54:210:54:28

national centre away from this. Yes,

you know, it's not cheap to build a

0:54:280:54:33

gymnastics centre, but you're

talking about, you know, victims

0:54:330:54:36

that have gone through serious

abuse, returning to that scene. It

0:54:360:54:41

is just the most ludicrous thing

that I've ever heard of within

0:54:410:54:45

sport. It certainly won't happen

anywhere else so they really need to

0:54:450:54:51

look at that and say we are totally

supportive in my mind by returning

0:54:510:54:56

to the camp it's almost saying well,

we just want to forget about it. You

0:54:560:55:00

can't forget about this. Over 130

victims, you know, at the hands of

0:55:000:55:09

this nasty, horrible man within that

centre so, they really need to look

0:55:090:55:13

at changing the venue for certain.

Thank you very much, Craig Heap,

0:55:130:55:18

thank you for coming on the

programme and Martha, journalist

0:55:180:55:23

from the Guardian. British

gymnastics deny any claims about a

0:55:230:55:28

culture of fear.

0:55:280:55:38

The government has promised its top

priority will be maintaining

0:55:380:55:41

vital public services,

after Carillion was

0:55:410:55:42

put into liquidation.

0:55:420:55:43

Our reporter Andy Moore has more

details on this story now.

0:55:430:55:46

What's the latest today, Andy?

The

question is about the tens of

0:55:460:55:49

thousands of companies that are

subject contractors for Carillion,

0:55:490:55:54

people working in hospitals, prisons

and schools, they will be paid about

0:55:540:55:58

the Government, what about the

private subcrat rs. They have been

0:55:580:56:01

saying that Carillion wasn't a good

payer in the past anyway, a lot have

0:56:010:56:04

outstanding debt and now it looks as

if many of them won't be paid for

0:56:040:56:07

the contracts that are up coming.

And there is evidence from the past

0:56:070:56:11

that when there is a big collapse

like this, many of the small

0:56:110:56:15

subcontractors won't survive. There

is evidence from the past, 17%, 18%

0:56:150:56:19

of them won't survive after five

years, we have heard from one

0:56:190:56:23

company saying it has an impact,

possible financial impact of £1.6

0:56:230:56:30

million and it has warned its

shareholders about the adverse

0:56:300:56:33

financial impact.

And questions

continue to be asked about president

0:56:330:56:38

government giving Carillion

contracts after a profits warning

0:56:380:56:41

and after the Chief Executive

departed last summer and about why

0:56:410:56:46

that former Chief Executive is being

paid a very large salary until

0:56:460:56:49

October this year?

That's right. The

former Chief Executive was paid £1.6

0:56:490:56:54

million. He is going to be paid

£600,000 as you say, until October

0:56:540:56:58

this year. So a lot of questions

being asked about that. The Liberal

0:56:580:57:03

Democrat leader, Sir Vince Cable,

said it was a reward for failure.

0:57:030:57:08

David Lidington from the Government

said the whole situation would be

0:57:080:57:12

looked at and there could be a

financial penalty if misconduct was

0:57:120:57:16

proved.

Thank you very much, Andy, thank

0:57:160:57:19

you.

We will bring you the latest news

0:57:190:57:22

and sport in the next couple of

minutes. Before that, here is the

0:57:220:57:27

weather and Carol, what is going on,

it's getting colder.

0:57:270:57:31

weather and Carol, what is going on,

it's getting colder.

0:57:310:57:32

If I show you some of our Weather

Watcher pictures you can see where

0:57:320:57:37

we have had the snow. A beautiful

picture from the Highlands and we've

0:57:370:57:41

got another one too, this is North

Yorkshire. Some lying snow here and

0:57:410:57:45

finally, well, we have got some more

snow too across County Antrim. So it

0:57:450:57:50

is northern England and Northern

Ireland and Scotland seeing the

0:57:500:57:53

lion's share of the snow fall. Even

down to sea level. Elsewhere, today,

0:57:530:57:56

we are looking at showers. Some of

those across Wales and central

0:57:560:58:01

England will be wintry through the

afternoon in the heavier showers,

0:58:010:58:04

but generally there will be rain

with hail and that will be the case

0:58:040:58:08

as we push further south. It is a

brisk wind. And also driving the

0:58:080:58:14

showers. So, with height across

Northern Ireland, Scotland and

0:58:140:58:18

northern England, well we are

looking at drifting and also

0:58:180:58:21

potentially blizzard conditions. But

at lower levels you can see the snow

0:58:210:58:24

showers. They will be blowing around

in the wind. For northern England

0:58:240:58:31

further snow showers to come your

way, but they are showers so not all

0:58:310:58:35

of us are seeing them. For Wales,

most of the showers will be rain or

0:58:350:58:38

hail at lower levels, but in some of

the heavier ones we could see snow

0:58:380:58:43

at lower levels too. Gusty winds

whipping up large waves across

0:58:430:58:46

south-west England. That will be the

case for the next few days and

0:58:460:58:49

again, we are looking at the wintry

flavour on the moors for example,

0:58:490:58:53

largely with height. But for much of

the Midlands, East Anglia and the

0:58:530:58:56

South East, it should stay dry. If

you see a shower, it is more likely

0:58:560:59:00

to be of rain. The temperatures

today will be two to seven Celsius.

0:59:000:59:04

Add on the strength of the wind,

it's going to feel sub-zero for many

0:59:040:59:09

parts of the UK. Through this

evening and overnight, we continue

0:59:090:59:12

with the snow showers. A good flurry

of them crossing from the west

0:59:120:59:15

towards the east being driven in on

the wind. There will be the risk of

0:59:150:59:19

ice on untreated surfaces and it's

going to be a cold night. These are

0:59:190:59:22

the temperatures you can expect in

towns and cities. So we start

0:59:220:59:26

tomorrow on this note. Still a lot

of snow showers. Some of them fading

0:59:260:59:29

as we go through the day. The wind

will ease for a time, but it won't

0:59:290:59:34

last and we will see a lot of dry

weather and more sunshine than we're

0:59:340:59:37

expecting today, but the next system

is waiting in the wings. Now this is

0:59:370:59:41

an area of low pressure that's

forming off the coast of the United

0:59:410:59:44

States. It will deepen as it moves

across the Atlantic and this is the

0:59:440:59:48

track we think it's going to take,

but this track could change

0:59:480:59:51

slightly. So as it comes in across

the k, it will bring heavy rain.

0:59:510:59:54

Some snow across Northern Ireland,

North Wales, northern England,

0:59:540:59:58

southern and eastern parts of

Scotland. That could be disruptive

0:59:581:00:00

snow. We expect it to be quite

heavy. If you look at the isobars,

1:00:001:00:06

they are squeeze the tightly, we are

looking at gales across North Wales,

1:00:061:00:09

parts of northern England, heading

down through parts of the Midlands

1:00:091:00:12

and Norfolk. That will rattle

through quickly during the course of

1:00:121:00:16

Thursday morning. Leaving behind it

still a windy day, just not as

1:00:161:00:21

windy, wherever you are, with

temperatures between three and

1:00:211:00:23

around nine Celsius.

1:00:231:00:26

#r

1:00:311:00:31

Hello it's Tuesday, it's 10 O'Clock,

I'm Victoria Derbyshire.

1:00:311:00:34

I'm Victoria Derbyshire.

1:00:341:00:36

Our top story this morning -

13 brothers and sisters have

1:00:361:00:39

been rescued from a house

in California, some of them had

1:00:391:00:42

been chained to their beds.

1:00:421:00:43

Their parents have been

charged with torture.

1:00:431:00:51

Here were some kids from 29 to two,

held captive and malnourished.

1:00:511:00:54

It's heartbreaking.

1:00:541:00:56

The siblings were rescued after one

girl managed to escape

1:00:561:00:58

and raise the alarm.

1:00:581:00:59

We'll bring you the full

story this morning.

1:00:591:01:03

A Marie Stopes clinic in London

could become the first

1:01:031:01:06

to be surrounded by a special

protection zone, to shield women

1:01:061:01:08

from anti-abortion protesters

holding vigils outside.

1:01:081:01:16

We can see the women being addressed

as "mum" on the way out and saying -

1:01:161:01:22

youed shouldn't have killed your

child, you shouldn't have murdered

1:01:221:01:25

your child.

1:01:251:01:30

We'll be speaking to a nurse

from the clinic about the impact

1:01:301:01:33

on patietns of those protests

1:01:331:01:37

And if you were in charge of the

NHS, what would you do to sort out

1:01:371:01:43

the printer pressures, to sort out

the lack of beds, and queues with

1:01:431:01:51

ambulances. Your views are welcome

in the next hour.

1:01:511:01:55

Good Morning.

1:01:551:01:56

Here's Reeta in the BBC Newsroom

with a summary of today's news.

1:01:561:01:59

Police in California have rescued 13

siblings from a house,

1:01:591:02:01

where some of them were shackled

to their beds.

1:02:011:02:03

The alarm was raised on Sunday,

when one girl escaped

1:02:031:02:06

and alerted the authorities.

1:02:061:02:07

Their parents have been arrested

and charged with torture

1:02:071:02:09

and child endangerment.

1:02:091:02:11

Our North America Correspondent

James Cook has this report.

1:02:111:02:19

They look like a big, happy family.

1:02:191:02:21

The children a little pale,

perhaps, but smiling.

1:02:211:02:23

Photographs on Facebook show

the Turpins visiting

1:02:231:02:26

Disneyland and in Las Vegas,

as their apparently proud parents

1:02:261:02:29

renewed wedding vows.

1:02:291:02:31

Now David and Louise Turpin

are under arrest, charged

1:02:311:02:33

with torture and child endangerment.

1:02:331:02:38

Their children in hospital.

1:02:381:02:40

Our staff is used to taking care

of people who are quite ill,

1:02:401:02:43

they are used to compassionate care,

and so we pull out all the stops,

1:02:431:02:50

so to speak, to make sure

that their privacy is dealt with,

1:02:501:02:58

that they get appropriate care

and that they are treated

1:02:591:03:01

with dignity and respect at a time

when they need it the most.

1:03:011:03:04

The horror on Muir Woods Road

was uncovered early on Sunday

1:03:041:03:07

morning when a 17-year-old girl

escaped with a mobile phone

1:03:071:03:09

and called the police.

1:03:091:03:10

At the home, officers found 12

siblings and were shocked

1:03:101:03:13

to discover that seven were adults -

the oldest, 29.

1:03:131:03:16

The captives were dirty

and malnourished, say police,

1:03:161:03:19

shackled to their beds with chains

and padlocks in dark

1:03:191:03:21

and foul-smelling surroundings.

1:03:211:03:28

As the reporters arrived in the

quite suburb in Los Angeles,

1:03:281:03:35

neighbours were stunned.

1:03:351:03:42

neighbours were stunned.

They coat

to themselves.

1:03:421:03:48

They kept to themselves,

in a sense, clan-ish,

1:03:481:03:50

so they only kept to themselves.

1:03:501:03:52

And the only time you would see

them, you would never see anyone

1:03:521:03:55

visit, you would never see anyone

come outside, all you would really

1:03:551:03:58

see is that they would go out

and maybe make a grocery run

1:03:581:04:01

and that was about it.

1:04:011:04:02

There is no hint at all here of the

grim conditions inside this home.

1:04:021:04:05

The questions about what

happened are mounting.

1:04:051:04:06

Not least, how long were

the siblings held captive and why.

1:04:061:04:09

James Cook, BBC News,

Perris, California.

1:04:091:04:14

The future of some major

construction projects and hundreds

1:04:141:04:16

of public service contracts hang in

the balance this morning, after the

1:04:161:04:20

collapse of Carillion. Britain's

second largest construction firm,

1:04:201:04:23

which also holds cleaning and

catering contracts for schools,

1:04:231:04:27

hospitals and prisons, went into

liquidation yesterday, with debts of

1:04:271:04:30

around £1.5 billion.

1:04:301:04:36

The four time Olympic gymnastcy moan

Biles has said she has been abused.

1:04:421:04:47

She said she has been reluctant to

speak out until now. Larry Na Serbs

1:04:471:04:51

r was jailed last month for 60 years

for possessing images of child

1:04:511:04:56

sexual abuse and is awaiting

sentence for assaulting other

1:04:561:04:59

athletes.

1:04:591:05:01

Inflation eased slightly

from its six-year high in December.

1:05:011:05:03

The Consumer Prices Index

slipped to an annual rate

1:05:031:05:05

of 3% - down from 3.1%

in November.

1:05:051:05:07

Across the eurozone,

inflation stood at just 1.4%.

1:05:071:05:14

New footage has emerged of a car

that became embedded on the first

1:05:141:05:20

floor of an office block inical

foreignia. Video from a bus captures

1:05:201:05:24

the moment the car crosses its path

before flying through the air

1:05:241:05:27

towards the building. The driver and

passenger escaped with minor

1:05:271:05:31

injuries.

1:05:311:05:33

That's a summary of

the latest BBC News.

1:05:331:05:35

More at 10.30am.

1:05:351:05:38

We have a text from somebody who is

in hospital right now. They don't

1:05:381:05:42

leave their name, "The staff are

mazing and my experience is positive

1:05:421:05:45

but it is clear the nurses, doctors

ands fa its are being overworked.

1:05:451:05:49

It's not sustainable. I'm sick of

Conservative politicians taking any

1:05:491:05:53

credit for our fabulous NHS, when

they've presided over such

1:05:531:05:57

inadequate funding." And this text

"Part of the problem is river Friday

1:05:571:06:02

and Saturday night, without fail,

the A&E is full of the same idiots

1:06:021:06:11

taking up valuable resources repeat

or second thoird offenders should

1:06:111:06:14

incur a £50 charge. It won't fix the

problem but it would happen, not

1:06:141:06:19

least the savings, if two security

staff helping with this unwanted

1:06:191:06:25

disruption." And this on twitter.

"Two ladies at my loikal GP, with

1:06:251:06:35

snotty noses after free Calpol. Why?

You can see why GPs are swamped."

1:06:351:06:40

Get in touch your experiences, both

positive and injury which is from

1:06:401:06:43

the NHS this winter.

1:06:431:06:49

use #VictoriaLIVE.

1:06:491:06:51

If you text, you will be charged

at the standard network rate.

1:06:511:06:53

Here's some sport now with Hugh.

1:06:531:06:55

British number one Johanna Konta

is through to the second

1:06:551:06:57

round of the Australian Open.

1:06:571:06:58

Her win over Madison Brengle took

place in temperatures

1:06:581:07:01

of almost 40 degrees.

1:07:011:07:02

Although Konta said she really

enjoyed the heat in Melbourne

1:07:021:07:04

and tried to absorb the atmosphere

in the arena and she certainly

1:07:041:07:07

looked comfortable out there,

dropping only four games in a match

1:07:071:07:11

that lasted a little over an hour

and afterwards she seemed more

1:07:111:07:14

concerned with what she's called

"the blueberry debacle".

1:07:141:07:19

I went to the supermarket to buy

blueberries. I only bought

1:07:191:07:23

blueberries. Two pun ets. I left two

pun ets tlchl it is $5 I will not

1:07:231:07:29

get back but it is the betrayal of

my own mind I feel so upset about. I

1:07:291:07:33

was so sad.

Breaking news, this

morning, it is OK, she has more

1:07:331:07:40

blueberries, since.

1:07:401:07:41

Britain's other player

in the women's draw, Heather Watson,

1:07:411:07:43

is a set down in her match

against Yulia Putintseva.

1:07:431:07:45

She fought back, going a break

up in the second set,

1:07:451:07:49

but she's just been broken herself.

1:07:491:07:50

She now leads 4-3

with Putintseva serving.

1:07:501:07:52

Defending champion Roger Federer had

a fairly straight-forward passage

1:07:521:07:54

into the second round.

1:07:541:07:59

He beat the former British player

Alljaz Bedene in straight sets.

1:07:591:08:01

The six-times champion

Novak Djokovic has been back

1:08:011:08:03

in action for the first

time since Wimbledon

1:08:031:08:05

and he came through with ease,

only dropping serve once,

1:08:051:08:07

in beating Donald Young.

1:08:071:08:10

Djokovic is seeded 14th,

after missing the second half

1:08:101:08:13

of 2017 with an elbow injury.

1:08:131:08:17

Manchester United's Paul Pogba says

they still have Manchester City

1:08:171:08:21

in their sights after reducing

the leaders' advantage at the top

1:08:211:08:23

of the Premier League to 12 points.

1:08:231:08:26

Pogba inspired United

to a 3-0 win against Stoke,

1:08:261:08:32

setting up two goals, including this

one for Anthony Martial.

1:08:321:08:35

New Stoke manager Paul Lambert

was watching from the stands.

1:08:351:08:37

His opposite number Jose Mourinho

insists United aren't

1:08:371:08:39

giving up on the title race yet.

1:08:391:08:45

We know that the distance is a very

important distance. I have been

1:08:451:08:50

there before and you can control

your Distiny when you play relaxed

1:08:501:08:55

and when you play relaxed the best

qualities are company coming. I

1:08:551:09:00

think they have their destiny in

their hands. We want to win matches

1:09:001:09:04

and finish the best we can.

1:09:041:09:07

Mourinho and Manchester United

are a lot closer to making

1:09:071:09:09

a major signing.

1:09:091:09:10

Manchester City have

pulled out of the race

1:09:101:09:12

for Arsenal's Alexis Sanchez.

1:09:121:09:13

It's understood the wages

being demanded by Sanchez would have

1:09:131:09:16

made him the top

earner at the Etihad,

1:09:161:09:17

something that Pep Guardiola

and the club's hierarchy

1:09:171:09:19

were not willing to do.

1:09:191:09:21

Manchester United and Chelsea

are rumoured to be

1:09:211:09:22

interested in the Chilean.

1:09:221:09:25

England cricketer Ben

Stokes says he's keen

1:09:251:09:28

to clear his name in court

after he was charged with affray.

1:09:281:09:31

It relates to an incident outside

a Bristol nightclub in September.

1:09:311:09:35

Stokes missed the Ashes Series

and the selectors will be meeting

1:09:351:09:38

over the next couple of days

to discuss his future.

1:09:381:09:41

He's been charged along

with two other men.

1:09:411:09:46

That's all the sport for now.

Headlines just after 10.30am.

1:09:461:09:53

13 siblings - ranging

in age from two to 29 -

1:09:531:09:55

have been rescued by police

in California from a house

1:09:551:09:58

where some of them had

been chained to beds.

1:09:581:10:05

They were found in a house in a

residential neighbourhood near LA -

1:10:051:10:11

after one of the children

escaped with a mobile phone

1:10:111:10:14

she'd found and managed

to call the police.

1:10:141:10:16

John Fenoglio is

a news correspondent

1:10:161:10:17

with KTLA-5 in Los Angeles.

1:10:171:10:19

He told me how the alarm was raised.

1:10:191:10:21

This is truly an horrific child

abuse investigation.

1:10:211:10:22

What we know from police is that

early Sunday morning a young

1:10:221:10:25

girl called for help.

1:10:251:10:26

She said she was being held captive,

along with her 12 brothers

1:10:261:10:29

and sisters, and that some of them

had been shackled to

1:10:291:10:32

their beds with padlocks.

1:10:321:10:34

Responding officers found

what they described as a young,

1:10:341:10:38

emaciated girl, they believed to be

about ten, but in fact

1:10:381:10:41

she was 17-years-old.

1:10:411:10:44

She led police back to their home,

and what officers described was a

1:10:441:10:52

a hellish scenario.

1:10:591:11:01

Children chained to their beds,

police could not give an adequate

1:11:011:11:03

ents both arrested.

1:11:031:11:04

The officers say

what they discovered

1:11:041:11:06

with several people chained

to their beds in dark and foul

1:11:061:11:08

smelling conditions.

1:11:081:11:13

You say this girl who appeared to be

ten but in fact was 17 had called to

1:11:131:11:18

help.

1:11:181:11:21

Had she escaped from a house?

1:11:211:11:29

According to a police statement

she said she was able to

1:11:291:11:32

escape from the house and take

a cell phone with her.

1:11:321:11:35

That's when the officers discovered

the chilling environment.

Do we note

1:11:351:11:37

ages of the brothers and sisters?

The Youngest two, the oldest 29.

1:11:371:11:41

They have all been taken to a

hospital for a medical evaluation.

1:11:411:11:47

Right now we don't know their

condition and police are keeping a

1:11:471:11:51

tight lid on the situation at the

time.

What are neighbours say?

They

1:11:511:11:57

are saying it is a bizarre

situation, it is about 70 miles

1:11:571:12:01

north-east of Los Angeles. It is a

quiet community. Neighbours say they

1:12:011:12:06

never saw the children and when they

z they would act a bit cagey, some

1:12:061:12:10

would not respond at all. There is a

strange tale that one neighbour

1:12:101:12:15

describes, saying some of the

children are were outside in the

1:12:151:12:18

front yard at night planting grass

but again all the neighbours we have

1:12:181:12:22

spoken with, say the children, were,

for the most part, unresponsive and

1:12:221:12:26

that they didn't see them very

often. You say two adults are being

1:12:261:12:30

held on charges of torture child

endangerment. Are he this the

1:12:301:12:38

parents as far as we know? Yes, two

people have been arrested.

1:12:381:12:46

57-year-old David Alan Turpin and

his wife, being charged with child

1:12:461:12:50

engagement and torture, both being

held on $9 million bail.

1:12:501:12:56

After the couple were arrested

neighbours began to learn how some

1:12:561:12:58

of the children had been held

captive in dark and dirty rooms,

1:12:581:13:01

some had been so malnourished

the authorities initially thought

1:13:011:13:03

they were all underaged.

1:13:031:13:11

We heard on Facebook and on the news

this family holed their children

1:13:121:13:17

captive o in the house and chained

some of their kids to the beds. It's

1:13:171:13:21

been really shocking knowing they

have 12 kids locked in their house.

1:13:211:13:24

They were the type that you didn't

really get to know anything about

1:13:241:13:27

them. They were very to themselves,

in a sense clan-ish. So they only

1:13:271:13:34

kept to themselves. The only time

you would see them, you would never

1:13:341:13:40

see them on business, or anyone come

outside. All you would really see is

1:13:401:13:44

that they would go out, maybe make a

grocery run, that was about it. They

1:13:441:13:49

kept to themselves. They were, like

I said, the kids were inadvice I

1:13:491:13:53

will. The only time I saw the kids,

beside the Christmas incident, they

1:13:531:13:58

were just coming out of the car and

going into the house, that was T it

1:13:581:14:01

was never - I never saw the kids by

themselves. The parents were close

1:14:011:14:05

around. But I believe that they,

even though I thought they were kids

1:14:051:14:11

because they physically looked like

pre-steep, I don't believe they

1:14:111:14:15

were. I think these were the

20-year-olds.

1:14:151:14:22

20-year-olds.

Still to come: If you

were in charge of the NHS, what

1:14:221:14:26

would you do to try to sort a

long-term sustainable funding

1:14:261:14:29

situation. To sort winter pressures,

overcrowded kids, queues at

1:14:291:14:35

ambulances and so on. Your funding

issues, welcome.

1:14:351:14:40

A council in London will today

consider the next step

1:14:401:14:42

in the launching of a special order

to stop anti-abortion protectors

1:14:421:14:45

holding daily vigils outside

of a Marie Stopes Clinic.

1:14:451:14:47

The demonstrators are accused

of "harassing" women attending

1:14:471:14:55

the abortion clinic in Ealing

and displaying "deliberately

1:14:551:14:57

disturbing images".

1:14:571:14:58

Councillors will decide

whether to begin a consultation

1:14:581:15:01

on whether or not to bring

in a public space protection order -

1:15:011:15:08

to prevent disruption at the clinic.

1:15:081:15:13

If it's granted, it would be

the first time it's been used

1:15:131:15:16

in a situation involving

an abortion clinic.

1:15:161:15:18

We're going to speak now

to John Hansen-Brevetti,

1:15:181:15:20

a nurse and manager

at the Ealing Marie Stopes clinic.

1:15:201:15:22

Councillor Binda Rai represents

the area where the clinic

1:15:221:15:24

is and brought this issue

to the attention of the council.

1:15:241:15:27

And Claire McCullough,

Founding Trustee of

1:15:271:15:28

The Good Counsel Network,

1:15:281:15:36

which hold daily vigils outside

the clinic, an organisation

1:15:381:15:40

affiliated to the US anti-abortion

1:15:401:15:41

movement.

1:15:411:15:45

John, tell us how the vigils have

changed over time?

We have seen the

1:15:451:15:50

tactics used outside our doors get

worse. Staff who been at the clinic

1:15:501:15:55

for upwards of 20 years can describe

a time when it was just peaceful

1:15:551:15:59

prayer happening outside which

people still found intimidating, but

1:15:591:16:02

it is different to what we see today

which is people standing directly

1:16:021:16:07

outside our gates, engaging everyone

who comes past trying to persuade

1:16:071:16:14

them not to attend their treatment

and they do this by calling them,

1:16:141:16:20

"Mum" by saying they will be haunted

by the ghost of that I foetus, they

1:16:201:16:29

will say Rosarys at them and try and

close the gate.

All that you have

1:16:291:16:34

described is lawful?

It is and

that's the issue is that when we

1:16:341:16:40

call the police, they're quite

frustrated that also little they can

1:16:401:16:44

do under current laws to protect

women from going through that

1:16:441:16:48

horrific experience, through that

emotional blackmail and that's why

1:16:481:16:52

we're pleased with the leadership

that Ealing Council has shown in

1:16:521:16:57

bringing the proposal forward and

taking the next step. It is a

1:16:571:17:00

landmark thing and it has

implications for the whole country

1:17:001:17:03

and we're hoping that Parliament

will take their cue and show

1:17:031:17:06

leadership at a national level as

well.

What is wrong with trying to

1:17:061:17:09

persuade a woman about to go into

your clinic to have an abortion

1:17:091:17:14

potentially not to have one or to

think further about it?

Part of is

1:17:141:17:18

the information that they're given.

Women are given leaflets by the

1:17:181:17:25

pavement counsellors that have

completely false information on

1:17:251:17:27

them, that they'll develop cancer,

that they'll develop drug and

1:17:271:17:31

alcohol habits, that they will feel

inadequate as a mother in the

1:17:311:17:35

future, the information they are

receiving is wrong. The way in which

1:17:351:17:38

it is being given to them is

coercive and we see it as they come

1:17:381:17:42

through our doors, they're shaking

and they are in tears and they are

1:17:421:17:46

angry as are their partners or

families who come to support them.

1:17:461:17:49

What do they say to you when they

get inside?

They tell us that they

1:17:491:17:53

have been called murderers and had

their paths blocked and they felt

1:17:531:17:57

judged and shamed and we see it

happening, not only on the way in,

1:17:571:18:00

but on the way out as well which is

how we know this isn't about

1:18:001:18:03

providing information or support,

this is about making people feel

1:18:031:18:07

ashamed, scared and intimidated

about accessing treatment that

1:18:071:18:11

they've, in most cases, really

thought long and hard about and come

1:18:111:18:13

to a firm decision already.

You have

cameras outside?

It focuses just on

1:18:131:18:17

our property. We are not allowed to

film beyond that because it's a

1:18:171:18:21

public area and we have some large

hedges that block our view of most

1:18:211:18:25

of this.

A public space protection

order is a step closer, Ealing

1:18:251:18:29

Council are going to decide tonight

whether to launch a consultation on

1:18:291:18:32

bringing one in. What impact do you

think such an order would have on

1:18:321:18:37

the Ealing clinic if it were to

brought in?

It would be an

1:18:371:18:41

incredible day for us to know that

our patients were coming to the

1:18:411:18:47

clinic free that that experience on

the way in and way out. It is

1:18:471:18:50

something that people can enjoy in

Ealing, but it is happening outside

1:18:501:18:53

clinics across the country, but it

is an important first step and we

1:18:531:18:57

would welcome it.

You have been

going to the clinic and standing

1:18:571:19:03

outside for several years taking

part in vigils. The last time we

1:19:031:19:06

spoke to you on this programme you

denied all of the kind of claims

1:19:061:19:10

that you've heard this morning from

the nurse at the clinic today. Is he

1:19:101:19:15

lying?

Unfortunately, yes. Can I

just say again...

No, no...

Yes,

1:19:151:19:21

he's lying.

How do you respond to

that?

I think unfortunately there

1:19:211:19:28

has been a lot of denial about the

impact this has on women. We've, we

1:19:281:19:34

hear it from our own patients. We

hear it from our neighbours who

1:19:341:19:37

phone us and say that they can see

people distressed outside the

1:19:371:19:40

clinic. We've had officers from the

council for the past several weeks

1:19:401:19:45

interviewing women and not only have

they heard it from the women, but

1:19:451:19:48

they have felt harassed and

intimidated on the way in.

Clare,

1:19:481:19:52

you wouldn't know the impact on the

patients because once they're

1:19:521:19:55

inside, you don't see them, so you

have no idea what effect you're

1:19:551:19:59

having on these patients?

I think

when you stand outside an abortion

1:19:591:20:03

centre for 20 years and many of the

women who stand there with us are

1:20:031:20:06

women who have had pay bortions,

many, many people who come to vigils

1:20:061:20:10

outside clinics...

I am talking

about the women inside the clinics.

1:20:101:20:16

They have been past people like

ourselves and come to the vigils. So

1:20:161:20:19

think we have a good idea on what

women may feel.

Do you accept that

1:20:191:20:24

however you're doing t for some

women and their partners, once they

1:20:241:20:28

get inside the Marie Stopes clinic,

they are upset, distressed and angry

1:20:281:20:33

at you, not at their own decision,

to have a termination?

I think

1:20:331:20:38

abortion is something that upsets

women a lot I'm sure some women

1:20:381:20:41

would rather... I'm trying to

answer.

No, you are answering a

1:20:411:20:46

different question.

I accept that

some women who are extremely upset

1:20:461:20:50

at the horrible decision they are

feeling they have to take, don't

1:20:501:20:52

like our presence there, yes, I

accept that.

So why do you carry on

1:20:521:20:58

then?

Can I just correct, you said

we are affiliated to the group in

1:20:581:21:08

America, we are not.

Why do you

carry on?

Last Friday I spoke to

1:21:081:21:12

several of my counsellors who during

the week one of them at Ealing had

1:21:121:21:16

spoken to a woman who had been there

three times and didn't want to go

1:21:161:21:19

ahead with the abortion and felt she

had no alternatives, at this moment,

1:21:191:21:23

one of the passers-by saw this

crying lady and grabbed her arm and

1:21:231:21:26

rushed into the clinic with her

because she could see this woman was

1:21:261:21:30

upset and presumed we were upsetting

her. On that occasion, a woman had

1:21:301:21:34

approached us for help and support

that she was not getting inside the

1:21:341:21:37

abortion centre, that's why we're

still there.

That's the explanation,

1:21:371:21:42

the justification for why the group

is still there, what do you say?

1:21:421:21:46

Well, over the past four months or

so now, our officers have been

1:21:461:21:51

investigating all these claims. They

have been collecting evidence and

1:21:511:21:55

what we've concluded is that the

behaviour outside the clinic is

1:21:551:21:59

unacceptable. There is harassment.

There is intimidation of these women

1:21:591:22:04

and I think basically we have a

responsibility to stop that sort of

1:22:041:22:08

behaviour.

Why haven't you called

the police?

The police have been

1:22:081:22:14

called on some occasion and we have

constant policing outside the

1:22:141:22:17

clinic. I know that every Saturday

that I have been there, the police

1:22:171:22:21

are there in force, but it's very

difficult for the police because

1:22:211:22:26

their current legislation is really

restricting because in terms of

1:22:261:22:30

harassment, you have got to prove

this is continuous harassment to one

1:22:301:22:33

individual and many of the women

that come and visit the clinic will

1:22:331:22:37

only come once or twice so it's

really difficult to make harassment

1:22:371:22:41

stand up legally.

I'm going to

appeal to our audience, we have been

1:22:411:22:44

trying to talk to women who have

been going to the clinic,

1:22:441:22:48

understandably, it is a very

sensitive situation, but if there is

1:22:481:22:51

anybody watching right now, who has

used the clinic and who has walked

1:22:511:22:57

past the group holding the vigils,

do send me an e-mail now or a

1:22:571:23:01

message and you can do that

anonymously and tell us your own

1:23:011:23:06

experiences. What would be the

effect of this kind of protection

1:23:061:23:11

order if the council takes the

decision to hold a consultation on

1:23:111:23:14

it which is a step closer to the

order?

Yes, the effect would be that

1:23:141:23:18

we would have a certain area that

would not allow any protesters to

1:23:181:23:24

protest outside that area. So women

would be able to access the clinic

1:23:241:23:31

without anybody obstrucking their

journey to the clinic.

1:23:311:23:33

Right.

And of course, we mustn't

forget that would also make life a

1:23:331:23:38

lot easier for people living in that

street, for people using the

1:23:381:23:45

facilities in that area, the park,

the theatre down the road...

What

1:23:451:23:49

impact is it having on residents, do

you say?

Well, residents are having

1:23:491:23:52

to see this and hear this every

single day.

Hear what?

The prayers.

1:23:521:23:57

They're having to look at the

graphic images that are on

1:23:571:24:01

display...

We have no graphic

images.

Well, I was there on

1:24:011:24:06

Saturday, I saw graphic images.

When

she says graphic pictures, you mean

1:24:061:24:14

pictures of the developing baby.

I

think it is inappropriate for young

1:24:141:24:18

children to see those images.

To see

pictures of a developing baby a

1:24:181:24:21

womb?

Parents have to choose to

discuss, parents don't have a choice

1:24:211:24:25

on whether they're discussing those

issues with their children...

What

1:24:251:24:29

issues, developing babies in the

womb? Lots of children see these all

1:24:291:24:34

the time.

Parents don't have a

choice about discussion.

What

1:24:341:24:38

discussion?

A lot of parents told me

they have had to have discussion

1:24:381:24:43

with their children about abortion

and that's a topic they should be

1:24:431:24:46

able to choose as and when they

discuss it with their children.

1:24:461:24:49

There is nothing in those images.

There is a school nearby and people

1:24:491:24:53

will use a different route to get to

the school. They'll use a different

1:24:531:24:56

route to get to the park and I don't

think people should be restricted in

1:24:561:24:59

that way because a group of people

decide they want to protest, that's

1:24:591:25:05

the vigil holders and the pro-choice

group. I think that area needs to be

1:25:051:25:10

brought back to normality.

If this order is ultimately brought

1:25:101:25:15

in, that would be unprecedented.

It

would.

Particularly in terms of

1:25:151:25:21

protecting an abortion clinic, if

protecting is the right word, but it

1:25:211:25:25

would only be in place for three

years. It only lasts for three years

1:25:251:25:28

is my understanding.

That's the

difficulty with is PSPO, but once we

1:25:281:25:36

have consulted and if residents

agree it would be the best fit for a

1:25:361:25:39

solution for Ealing. However, we do

need a national solution and I know

1:25:391:25:44

that myself and Julian Bell have

given evidence to the Home Affairs

1:25:441:25:48

Select Committee where we have very

clearly said a national solution, we

1:25:481:25:53

need national legislation otherwise

women across the country aren't

1:25:531:25:55

going to be protected and you're

going to end up with a postcode

1:25:551:25:59

Lottery as John stated earlier.

We

are showing our audience images of

1:25:591:26:03

some of the vigils outside and some

of the images that are held up on

1:26:031:26:07

placards and I would love to read

some messages from our audience, but

1:26:071:26:12

my tablet has decided to freeze on

me so I apologise for that. John,

1:26:121:26:15

the work that you do at the clinic,

tell us about the significance of

1:26:151:26:20

it.

It's different for every woman

who comes through. We have a lot of

1:26:201:26:28

patients who simply feel they cannot

continue with the pregnancy for

1:26:281:26:32

whatever reason. That it would be

detrimental to their lives and in

1:26:321:26:36

fact the only way that abortion is

legal in this country is if two

1:26:361:26:40

doctors certify that continuing the

pregnancy would in fact have a

1:26:401:26:44

detrimental effect to that woman's

mental or physical health. We have

1:26:441:26:48

other women who come to us because

it was a wanted pregnancy, but an

1:26:481:26:55

abnormality has been discovered and

they have to terminate. It is these

1:26:551:26:58

sorts of circumstances that nobody

knows about when a woman is

1:26:581:27:01

approaching our clinic and yet they

are all approached in the same way,

1:27:011:27:05

every single woman and they are

being told that they will be

1:27:051:27:08

punished for their decision...

It's

not true.

It is what they tell us

1:27:081:27:11

when they are in the door.

It is not

true. If you look through the Marie

1:27:111:27:16

Stopes log, there is one or two

claims. These are the best

1:27:161:27:21

hand-picked ones refer to the

presence of sister supporters around

1:27:211:27:24

the gate in many instances, the

complaints of women standing away

1:27:241:27:27

from the clinic and phoning the

clinic because they are afraid of

1:27:271:27:31

the protest at the doctor, refer to

the times when sister supporter are

1:27:311:27:39

across the door which are Bin Laden

da and John.

This is why we would be

1:27:391:27:45

happy for a public space protection

order that bans all protests. This

1:27:451:27:48

isn't about one group. There are

five different anti-abortion groups.

1:27:481:27:53

We don't care if it is Sister

Support outside, we want that area

1:27:531:27:57

free so that women can walk in

without having to walk past a crowd

1:27:571:28:00

and without having to walk past one

person.

Victoria, we have had

1:28:001:28:06

discussions with both groups and we

have come, we have tried to get an

1:28:061:28:09

agreement, we have tried to get them

to agree not to do what they're

1:28:091:28:13

doing at the moment, but we have

come to a deadlock... You have

1:28:131:28:20

stated Clare, that you will continue

to do what you do and operate in the

1:28:201:28:24

way thaw do.

We have had no

discussion with the council about

1:28:241:28:28

stopping any particular behaviours,

you have never put to us particular

1:28:281:28:31

behaviours and asked us to stop

those particular behaviours.

1:28:311:28:34

Behaviours have been discussed with

us, but we have never been told if

1:28:341:28:38

you stop doing this or stop doing

that the vigil will continue.

You

1:28:381:28:43

never told the Select Committee that

you would change your behaviour.

1:28:431:28:46

Clare is in denial, we have

witnessed this behaviour. We have

1:28:461:28:49

been told it's going to continue no

matter what. So we have no choice,

1:28:491:28:55

but to look at the report that's

come to committee tonight and

1:28:551:29:00

consider consulting with residents,

all stakeholders including Clare's

1:29:001:29:04

group and every other group to see

if a PSPO is the right way forward.

1:29:041:29:09

When John se saying we are blocking

the gates and shutting the gates on

1:29:091:29:13

women, why are they not bringing

forward CCTV images of this. This is

1:29:131:29:18

where their CCTV camera is on, the

path on the gate, not a single image

1:29:181:29:22

of us doing this has emerged, why?

Because it doesn't happen.

1:29:221:29:26

I will read some messages and then I

want to ask you about the

1:29:261:29:29

significance of your work in your

view and then I'm going to talk to a

1:29:291:29:33

woman who has used the clinic.

Trevor tweets, "The anti-abortion

1:29:331:29:39

terrorists, who protest outside

abortion clinics should be banned

1:29:391:29:42

from protesting within 500 meters of

the gates of a clinic. They have no

1:29:421:29:46

right to push their religious and

moral views on others seeking lawful

1:29:461:29:50

treatment." A tweet from this

viewer, "What's wrong with asking a

1:29:501:29:55

woman who is having an abortion, not

to have an abortion? Well, it is not

1:29:551:30:01

your body for starters. " Another

viewer, "I think it is disgusting

1:30:011:30:07

these protesters put these women

through such guilt. They have no

1:30:071:30:10

idea what their personal situation

is. Perhaps they can't support the

1:30:101:30:14

child or a pregnancy would endanger

the woman. Take a look at the story

1:30:141:30:21

of the children being enshackled.

They have no right to judge. "

1:30:211:30:28

I was advised to I a bort my women

at 20 weeks because my water has

1:30:281:30:38

gone. She was born and is now three.

I'm going to talk to one woman, who

1:30:381:30:49

tally didn't use the Ealing clinic,

used a different abortion clinic.

1:30:491:30:52

Good morning, thank you very much

for talking to us, I will call you

1:30:521:30:55

Isobel. I know that's not your real

name but thank you for talking to

1:30:551:31:00

us, Isobel. Tell us of your

experience of entering an abortion

1:31:001:31:04

clinic?

I had to go to the clinic

twice. I was turned away the first

1:31:041:31:10

time due to having to wait too long.

So, suffered the abuse kind of twice

1:31:101:31:17

and it was just torturous, really. I

mean we are lucky enough to have

1:31:171:31:21

this choice and be free to have this

choice in the UK. And you should

1:31:211:31:26

just be able to go and do what you

feel is right at the time. These

1:31:261:31:33

people standing outside, have no

idea of who you are, where you come

1:31:331:31:37

from, what your scenario is and how

you have got into the situation.

1:31:371:31:39

What abuse was it that you suffered,

Isobel if I might ask, bearing in

1:31:391:31:45

mind, it is a daytime audience.

Of

course. Just being called a murder.

1:31:451:31:53

Quite graphic images being pushed

into your face and, you know

1:31:531:31:57

mentioned around.

1:31:571:32:04

mentioned around. And mentions

around God. In this country we have

1:32:041:32:07

a free right to decide what we

believe and don't believe in.

What

1:32:071:32:12

impact did it have on you?

It made a

very stressful time even more

1:32:121:32:16

stressful. I don't know whether

these people understand that it is

1:32:161:32:19

still difficult to make a decision

like that. So, you know the people

1:32:191:32:24

in the clinics are specialised and

trained to provide that support and,

1:32:241:32:28

you know, that's very much welcomed

but you don't kind of need harassing

1:32:281:32:32

when you are going about your

decision.

Thank you very much

1:32:321:32:36

Isobel. Thank you for coming on the

programme. I appreciate T Lisa says

1:32:361:32:40

"If I wanted counselling I wouldn't

go and see someone on a street

1:32:401:32:43

corner." Linda tweets "People, if

they want an abortion should able to

1:32:431:32:49

do so peacefully without

intimidation." I really think people

1:32:491:32:51

going in without knowing the

details, they do not need

1:32:511:32:56

self-opinionaited people outside

giving crass info, concentrate on

1:32:561:33:00

your own lives." Joanna says "Even

if you are antiabortion you have no

1:33:001:33:06

right to stress already harassed and

vulnerable women." The decision

1:33:061:33:10

tonight, what are you expecting?

We

will have to wait and see. There

1:33:101:33:14

will be a debate but I hope that

Cabinet will approve the

1:33:141:33:19

consultation and we go ahead with

the next stage because it is really

1:33:191:33:22

important for us to protect women

who are trying to access

1:33:221:33:27

legally-available health care

without intimidation and harass am.

1:33:271:33:31

And briefly, Claire, the

significance of your work?

Well, we

1:33:311:33:34

have seen hundreds of women over the

years, we have seen over 1,000 women

1:33:341:33:39

in London chose life for their

children by being offered help or

1:33:391:33:43

having a supportive person outside

who felt they had no alternative.

1:33:431:33:46

Over half of those women come from

the Ealing centre and I think that

1:33:461:33:50

if this is put in place it is an

attempt by the clinic to people

1:33:501:33:54

their profits high and very little

care for women. Just look at NHS

1:33:541:33:59

Choices... Reviews of Ma ri, e

Stopes delinic online, I would ask

1:33:591:34:07

you to look at that, and what

choices they have.

We have a nurse

1:34:071:34:11

and manager from there, would you

like to talk about that the lack of

1:34:111:34:17

care and profits sn.s it is untru.

All of the nurses that worked in the

1:34:171:34:20

clinic they joined this line of work

to support women. I think that's

1:34:201:34:24

easy to understand. We have heard

multiple accusations that our

1:34:241:34:28

numbers have gone down because ofP

good Counsel's presence outside the

1:34:281:34:33

clinic, actually they have gone to

other clinics, the total numbers

1:34:331:34:37

across the UK haven't changed. The

only impact this is having is

1:34:371:34:42

delaying treatment

When someone

approaches the clinic, they see a

1:34:421:34:46

crowd, they don't want to pass, so

they rebook.

It is not true, figures

1:34:461:34:50

are drochlingt

It means they have to

receive treatment at a later

1:34:501:34:54

gestation and it is safer to be

treated earlier and you have more

1:34:541:34:57

options. They are being rob of their

choice and safety.

These women are

1:34:571:35:04

being helped. We are seeing them and

their babies, they are not going

1:35:041:35:06

elsewhere.

Thank you. We'll report

back on the programme tomorrow after

1:35:061:35:10

the decision tonight. Thank you very

much for coming on the programme.

1:35:101:35:13

Still to come: The NHS is in crisis

say many people. How do we solve the

1:35:131:35:17

problems to safe guard the service

for the future? We'll talk to

1:35:171:35:21

various people who have their own

solutions.

1:35:211:35:25

Ministers from 20 counties

are meeting in Canada

1:35:251:35:27

to talk about curbing

North Korea's nuclear programme.

1:35:271:35:28

Later in the programme we'll be

speaking an American

1:35:281:35:31

author who has written

about the North's

1:35:311:35:32

nuclear capabilities.

1:35:321:35:37

Time for the latest

news, here's Reeta.

1:35:371:35:40

Two parents have been arrested

in California after police

1:35:401:35:42

found they allegedly kept their 13

children captive at home, some

1:35:421:35:45

of whom were shackled to their beds.

1:35:451:35:49

The brothers and sisters -

who were aged between two and 29 -

1:35:491:35:53

were found by police after one girl

escaped and alerted the authorities.

1:35:531:35:59

Their parents have been charged

with torture and child endangerment.

1:35:591:36:04

Thousands of small businesses

working for Carillion

1:36:041:36:10

are waiting to find out

if they'll be paid, following

1:36:101:36:13

the collapse of the firm.

1:36:131:36:14

Britain's second largest

construction company -

1:36:141:36:15

which also holds cleaning

and catering contracts for schools,

1:36:151:36:18

hospitals and prisons -

went into liquidation yesterday

1:36:181:36:26

with debts of around £1.5 billion.

1:36:281:36:29

Within the past hour,

the Archbishop of Canterbury has

1:36:291:36:31

said the firm's collapse threatens

workers, families

1:36:311:36:33

and sub-contractors.

1:36:331:36:34

The four-time Olympic champion

gymnast, Simone Biles,

1:36:341:36:36

has said she was sexually abused

by the USA team

1:36:361:36:38

doctor, Larry Nassar.

1:36:381:36:39

In a tweet, Simone Biles described

herself as one of many survivors -

1:36:391:36:42

but said she had been reluctant

to speak out until now.

1:36:421:36:47

Larry Nassar was jailed last month

for 60-years for possessing images

1:36:471:36:50

of child sexual abuse -

and is awaiting sentence

1:36:501:36:52

for assaulting other athletes.

1:36:521:36:54

Police say they are not

treating the death of

1:36:541:36:57

the Cranberries' singer,

Dolores O'Riordan, as suspicious.

1:36:571:36:59

The 46-year-old was found dead

in a hotel in London's

1:36:591:37:01

Park Lane yesterday.

1:37:011:37:05

The Irish musician,

originally from Limerick,

1:37:051:37:13

led the band to international

success in the 90s with singles

1:37:151:37:17

including Linger and Zombie.

1:37:171:37:19

MPs say the manufacturer, Whirlpool,

hasn't done enough to deal

1:37:191:37:21

with defective tumble dryers

which have caused hundreds of fires.

1:37:211:37:23

The Commons Business Committee said

the response to the problem,

1:37:231:37:26

discovered in 2015, had been woeful.

1:37:261:37:27

It also said that it was

"unacceptable" that more

1:37:271:37:29

than one million potentially

dangerous dryers were still being

1:37:291:37:31

used in people's homes.

1:37:311:37:34

The company insists its repair

campaign has been successful.

1:37:341:37:42

The controversial claim that the UK

sends £350 million a week

1:37:461:37:49

to the EU has been described

as a "gross underestimate" by the

1:37:491:37:52

Foreign Secretary, Boris Johnson.

1:37:521:37:53

In an interview with the Guardian

newspaper, Mr Johnson said Britain's

1:37:531:37:56

contribution would rise to almost

£440 million by the end of

1:37:561:37:59

the post-Brexit transition period.

1:37:591:38:00

Vote Leave's claim about the UK's

contribution to the EU was hotly

1:38:001:38:03

disputed during the EU referendum.

1:38:031:38:04

That's a summary of

the latest BBC News.

1:38:041:38:11

This anonymous texter regarding the

abortion clinic in Ealing "In my

1:38:111:38:16

experience in Ealing they have not

been physically abecausive or

1:38:161:38:19

obstructive but their presence is

inappropriate and makes the

1:38:191:38:22

situation is whole lot more

daunting."

1:38:221:38:24

Here's some sport now with Hugh.

1:38:241:38:25

Johanna Konta is through to the

second round of the Australian Open.

1:38:251:38:28

She's the ninth seed in Melbourne

this year and beat Madison Brengle

1:38:281:38:31

in straight sets in temperatures

approaching 40 degrees.

1:38:311:38:36

Defending champion Roger Federer had

a straight sets win over former

1:38:361:38:39

British player, Aljaz Bedene.

1:38:391:38:44

Who is now back

representing Slovenia.

1:38:441:38:47

Manchester United have reduced

Manchester City's lead at the top

1:38:471:38:51

of the Premier League to 12 points

after beating Stoke last night.

1:38:511:38:55

They won 3-0 at Old Trafford

with new Stoke boss Paul Lambert

1:38:551:38:59

watching from the stands.

1:38:591:39:03

And United could have a major

signing in the next few days too.

1:39:031:39:06

Manchester City have

ended their interest

1:39:061:39:07

in Alexis Sanchez.

1:39:071:39:10

So United and now we

understand Chelsea too

1:39:101:39:13

are battling to sign

1:39:131:39:14

the Chilean from Arsenal.

1:39:141:39:21

The British brand, Burberry,

has become the latest organisation

1:39:211:39:23

to say it won't work with members

of the fashion industry that

1:39:231:39:26

have been found to have

abused their position.

1:39:261:39:29

It comes as two star photographers -

Mario Testino, a favourite

1:39:291:39:36

of the British Royal Family,

and American Bruce Weber -

1:39:361:39:38

both strenuously deny accusations

made against them by a string

1:39:381:39:41

of models and assistants

in the New York Times.

1:39:411:39:43

Let's talk to our

reporter, Chichi Izundu.

1:39:431:39:45

What are Burberry saying? . They

have basically said they will now no

1:39:451:39:52

longer commission future projects

with marrow test teeniour and Bruce

1:39:521:39:56

Weber. It is not just them. Other

companies have also said they will

1:39:561:40:00

not be working with them in the

future.

1:40:001:40:08

future. As Saud Said Mario Testino

and Bruce Weber, strenuously deny

1:40:081:40:13

this. Next week is Paris men's

fashion week, so it'll be

1:40:131:40:18

interesting to see if there are any

further developments in the fashion

1:40:181:40:23

world, who will no longer work with

people who they say av abused their

1:40:231:40:28

position of power. What were the

accusations that they deny?

Some

1:40:281:40:32

include encouraging male models to

get nude when it wasn't part of the

1:40:321:40:35

shoot. Being quite sexually

suggestive, in some cases. Yes,

1:40:351:40:45

Stuart whiteman, Burberry, Michael

Corrs, raffle Lauren, says they will

1:40:451:40:49

not work with anyone, including Con,

de Nast saying they will no longer

1:40:491:40:53

work with people they believe have

abused their position of power in

1:40:531:40:56

the world of fashion.

As I said,

Bruce Weber deny the claims. Mario,

1:40:561:41:06

Testono's lawyers say his accuser

cannot be considered reliable

1:41:061:41:10

sources.

1:41:101:41:12

This morning we've been

asking how we get to grips

1:41:121:41:15

with the huge pressure the NHS

is under this winter.

1:41:151:41:17

Over the last few weeks you'll have

seen reports of over-crowded A&Es,

1:41:171:41:20

a lack of beds and queues

of ambulances stacked up outside

1:41:201:41:22

unable to hand over their patients.

1:41:221:41:24

On top of that as the NHS

approaches its 70th birthday,

1:41:241:41:27

it's having to deal with a growing

and ageing population adding more

1:41:271:41:29

pressure to its services.

1:41:291:41:30

Last week on this programme

Conservative MP Nick Boles argued

1:41:301:41:33

that money from national insurance

should go to the NHS.

1:41:331:41:35

I believe that if people knew that

when they looked at their pay slip

1:41:351:41:39

and that there was a line that said

national health insurance, if they

1:41:391:41:44

knew that that one legally could

only go to support national health

1:41:441:41:47

care and social care, that they

would be willing to pay a bit more.

1:41:471:41:51

And it's not going to have to be an

enormous amount more, but there are

1:41:511:41:54

going to have to be some increases.

1:41:541:41:56

So how should the NHS be funded?

1:41:561:41:58

Let's talk to the former Chair

of the Royal College

1:41:581:42:00

of General Practitioners,

Dr Clare Gerada,

1:42:001:42:02

she is also a member

of the Liberal Democrats.

1:42:021:42:04

Stephen Dorrell is chair

of the NHS Confederation

1:42:041:42:06

which represents providers

and commissioners.

1:42:061:42:09

He's also a former

Conservative Health Secretary.

1:42:091:42:12

And Alex Hitchcock who is from

the think-tank Reform

1:42:121:42:15

which looks at the NHS amongst other

issues and is not alligned

1:42:151:42:18

to any political party.

1:42:181:42:20

Welcome all of you. So, the funding

of NHS and social care. What is your

1:42:201:42:25

solution?

Well, clearly we do need

more money. And

1:42:251:42:37

more money. And to have a

hypothicated, tax, ringfenced seems

1:42:371:42:39

a sensible way forward. Also, I

think we should be looking at 1% for

1:42:391:42:44

income tax, to look and urgently

address the funding crisis. Money

1:42:441:42:47

isn't the whole answer, of course,

you have very, very expensive health

1:42:471:42:52

systems, such as the American health

system which doesn't deliver what it

1:42:521:42:54

should. It is clearly not just

money. We need the investment in the

1:42:541:42:58

right places and we need investment

in out of hospital care, community

1:42:581:43:01

care, primary care, so we can keep

people as healthy as possible for as

1:43:011:43:05

long as possible before we put them

into very expensive beds.

We

1:43:051:43:08

will,back to some of the other

issues you raised there. -- we will

1:43:081:43:13

come back. Stephen Dorrell, former

Secretary of State for Health now

1:43:131:43:18

NHS scone confederation Chairman.

Your solution?

Well, first of all,

1:43:181:43:21

it is true that health and public

services generally need more money

1:43:211:43:25

in the long-term, in order to

deliver the improving public

1:43:251:43:28

services that we all want to see.

Health is part of that. Part of the

1:43:281:43:32

problem, I think, as Claire said, is

seeing health separate from social

1:43:321:43:37

care, from social housing, and the

full range of social houses. That's

1:43:371:43:42

why, within the Confederation what

we have done, is to set up in

1:43:421:43:46

partnership with the institute of

fiscal stud yans the health

1:43:461:43:50

foundation, instead of guessing how

much money public services need for

1:43:501:43:53

the future, a serious analysis of

demand trends, so we can look and

1:43:531:43:57

see what the rising elderly

population, what the implications of

1:43:571:44:01

that are and then we can plan for it

as a country.

Just a quick side

1:44:011:44:07

issue but really important. Should

the NHS they, rather than local

1:44:071:44:12

councils be in charge of

commissioning social care? Snipe'

1:44:121:44:14

not in favour of imagining it is all

the responsibility of the health

1:44:141:44:17

service. I think health policy

actually ought to be about enabling

1:44:171:44:21

us to lead, not merely longer lives

but also healthier and more

1:44:211:44:25

enjoyable lives. It is about

housing, jobs, public spaces as well

1:44:251:44:30

as the treatment of disease in the

health service. OK. Alex hitch corks

1:44:301:44:35

your suggestion?

So, I think -- Alex

Hitchcock. Stephen is right with the

1:44:351:44:43

about the support of services more

money is needed. The NHS is

1:44:431:44:47

well-funded.

Snr less than other European

1:44:471:44:50

countries. If you include social

cakes 9.9% of GDP is spent on health

1:44:501:44:57

and social care, above the EU

average. We need to look at how care

1:44:571:45:01

is delivered. Currently too much is

delivered in hospitals when it can

1:45:011:45:04

be delivered in GPs, more efficient

and more effective and as Claire

1:45:041:45:07

will be able to testify but also

look at social care as well, to

1:45:071:45:10

ensure we can get people out of

hospital who don't need to be there.

1:45:101:45:15

But if you cut £6 billion from

social care which the coalition and

1:45:151:45:21

Conservative skefsh Government has

in the last seven years, you can see

1:45:211:45:24

why hospitals are full

Certainly so.

That points to the challenge of

1:45:241:45:27

spending the money in the correct

places. You have had those cuts.

1:45:271:45:30

North cutting in the first place by

quite so much.

But at the same time,

1:45:301:45:35

the NHS's funding has been

ringfenced and hospital funding

1:45:351:45:37

going up.

Of course, ringfenced. We

know that but if you are at the same

1:45:371:45:42

time cutting # billion from social

care, it is going to have a knock-on

1:45:421:45:45

effect, is it not?

1:45:451:45:49

We all know there is a rising

population of elderly people, we

1:45:491:45:53

should celebrate that. That's not a

problem, that's because we can look

1:45:531:45:57

forward to longer lives. Surely the

policy challenge is to make the

1:45:571:46:01

longer lives more enjoyable and to

keep people out of hospital and even

1:46:011:46:06

out of GP surgeries so we can enjoy

life. We need to access when we're

1:46:061:46:11

ill, but we should be looking for

opportunities to support people to

1:46:111:46:17

enjoy their lives and not rely on

treatment of avoidable illness.

1:46:171:46:27

treatment of avoidable illness.

The

amount is below the average EU

1:46:271:46:30

allocation...

The EU average

includes a lot of very poor

1:46:301:46:33

countries by our standards.

Yes, it

also includes, there is a lot of

1:46:331:46:37

care that's paid for separately

outside that, it is a complicated

1:46:371:46:41

issue, but nevertheless I think we

need more money. I do think we need

1:46:411:46:44

to be looking at how we use the

money as we've heard, it is better

1:46:441:46:49

to fund care outside hospital,

nevertheless, we don't have enough

1:46:491:46:52

beds. I think we have over Christmas

98% bed occupancy is not on in a

1:46:521:46:59

modern health care system. We need

to be investing, as the others have

1:46:591:47:03

said, in keeping people safe in

their homes and I wonder how many

1:47:031:47:06

people, how many people of my

generation are looking at their

1:47:061:47:10

homes and saying, "Well, where is

the trip hazard? Have I got a bed

1:47:101:47:15

that's suitable as I grow older? Can

I put a wheelchair between my

1:47:151:47:21

doors?"

Do think of you support

charging for services, either going

1:47:211:47:26

to see the GP or whatever it might

be?

No, that's very difficult. That

1:47:261:47:30

points to more money being put into

the system whereas we would argue

1:47:301:47:33

that shouldn't be the case. It is

difficult to be able to value what

1:47:331:47:37

is GP appointment is worth before

you know, how much is a lump worth,

1:47:371:47:41

if I find it in the morning is it

worth going to the GP or not?

No, I

1:47:411:47:50

am not in favour of producing

additional charges within the Health

1:47:501:47:53

Service, what I am in favour of

doing as recognising as our society

1:47:531:47:57

gets richer, as the economy grows

all the evidence is that we shall

1:47:571:48:01

devote, we shall want to devote, as

citizens, a rising share of that

1:48:011:48:05

income to the delivery of improving

public services to enable us to

1:48:051:48:10

enjoy our longer lives.

Briefly...

You had a call of somebody who went

1:48:101:48:15

in for Calpol. The price of that

Calpol if somebody paid for it over

1:48:151:48:21

the counter, probably under £1. The

real cost now of that patient going

1:48:211:48:26

in and using a GP, might be £30 to

£40, we need a sensible discussion

1:48:261:48:31

for the public. This is our money,

our services and our choices, but I

1:48:311:48:35

do think we need to be looking at

where services should be free and

1:48:351:48:39

where we should be expected to pay

for ourselves.

Pay extra.

Yeah.

We

1:48:391:48:47

know what you meant.

1:48:471:48:52

Foreign ministers from around 20

countries are meeting

1:48:521:48:54

in Canada to discuss how to curb

North Korea's nuclear programme.

1:48:541:48:56

China will not be there.

1:48:561:48:57

It says the meeting will not

help resolve tensions.

1:48:571:49:00

Last year saw fiery exchanges

between US president Donald Trump

1:49:001:49:02

and North Korean leader Kim Jong-Un,

but 2018 has seen a thaw

1:49:021:49:08

in relations, resulting in

high-level talks between the North

1:49:081:49:10

and South last week.

1:49:101:49:11

But how much of that thaw

is due to Donald Trump's

1:49:111:49:16

heavy-handed diplomacy?

1:49:161:49:21

Let's talk to Greg

Scarlatoiu in Washington.

1:49:211:49:24

He's

the Executive Director

1:49:241:49:25

of the Committee for Human Rights

in North Korea.

1:49:251:49:27

Gordon Chang an American

author who's written

1:49:271:49:29

about the North's

nuclear capabilities.

1:49:291:49:30

Thank you very much for talking to

us. How significant is this big

1:49:301:49:34

meeting in Canada, Greg?

This

meeting is supposed to be about a

1:49:341:49:40

ramping up pressure and sanctions

and clearly, this is the reason why

1:49:401:49:45

China is not present. Again, it's a

meeting meant to strengthen the

1:49:451:49:52

economic pressure exercised against

the North Korean regime in order to

1:49:521:49:58

achieve the strategic objective of

naving North Korea suspend and give

1:49:581:50:03

up its nuclear programme and its

missile programme.

1:50:031:50:08

Gordon, any decision made by foreign

ministers today isn't much use,

1:50:081:50:11

without the backing of China, is

that right?

Well, you know, I think

1:50:111:50:15

that China should not be there and

the reason is this is supposed to be

1:50:151:50:19

a meeting of like minded nations and

these are nations want to increase

1:50:191:50:24

pressure on North Korea. China has

been busting sanctions continually

1:50:241:50:29

throughout 2017 and it is about a

bad actor so I don't think China

1:50:291:50:34

should be in the room and nor should

Russia. Yes, China and Russia are

1:50:341:50:39

consequential, but that doesn't mean

that they should be part of the

1:50:391:50:42

solution at this point. We can get

China to co-operate, but only if we

1:50:421:50:47

put immense pressure on Beijing and

so, that's what this talk about

1:50:471:50:52

today putting pressure on China, on

Russia and on North Korea.

How do

1:50:521:50:57

you assess Greg, the nuclear threat

from North Korea this year?

Clearly,

1:50:571:51:05

under the Kim Jong-un regime, North

Korea has dramatically accelerated

1:51:051:51:12

both its nuclear and its long-range

ballistic missile programme. Four

1:51:121:51:17

out of six nuclear tests by North

Korea have happened on Kim Jong-un's

1:51:171:51:21

watch. If one looks at statements,

public statements, by senior

1:51:211:51:28

officials, I think we are pretty

close to acknowledging that North

1:51:281:51:33

Korea has reached one of its

fundamental strategic objectives

1:51:331:51:37

which is being capable of having a

long-range ballistic missile capable

1:51:371:51:43

of delivering a nuclear warhead to

the Continental United States.

1:51:431:51:46

Gordon, do you think that now

sanctions are biting, North Korea

1:51:461:51:52

might be willing to put their

nuclear programme on the table when

1:51:521:51:55

it comes to negotiations in the

future?

Sanctions, indeed are biting

1:51:551:52:00

and there is a lot of evidence of

that including koupg's New Year's

1:52:001:52:04

address. He talked about sanctions

being a threat to the regime. We

1:52:041:52:09

have seen for instance officials in

Pyongyang

1:52:091:52:14

have seen for instance officials in

have seen for instance officials in

1:52:141:52:14

Pyongyang are not getting their

rations through the distribution

1:52:141:52:16

system. The soldier who defected in

December had uncooked kernels of

1:52:161:52:26

corn. Those most favoured a

scroujing for food. North Korea is

1:52:261:52:34

not at the point to sit done Artalk

about denuclearisation. That means

1:52:341:52:41

that sanctions need to be ramped up.

At some point, I think, that the

1:52:411:52:47

regime, either Kim Jong-un or those

around him are going to realise this

1:52:471:52:50

they have no choice, but to give up,

but the pressure has got to be much

1:52:501:52:54

more than it is now.

Thank you both. Thank you very much.

1:52:541:53:06

In the last half an hour, we asked

you to get in touch with your

1:53:061:53:10

experiences of an abortion clinic in

Ealing in West London. The council

1:53:101:53:13

is meeting today to discuss whether

to introduce a special order to stop

1:53:131:53:20

any protesters holding vigils

thousands Marie Stopes Clinic. Clare

1:53:201:53:28

McCulloch told us their protests

were not over the top. So, we asked

1:53:281:53:32

you to get in touch and share your

experiences. Louisa used the clinic

1:53:321:53:37

in Ealing five years ago. Lisa is

not her real and also used the same

1:53:371:53:42

clinic. Hello both of you.

Hello.

Hi.

Hi. Louisa, tell us your

1:53:421:53:49

experience.

Yes, I have been to the

clinic. It was my first-term nation

1:53:491:53:57

and as soon as I got there with my

partner, I had a woman coming to me

1:53:571:54:05

with very graphic images, with

leaflets and then called me a

1:54:051:54:11

murderer. I went inside the clinic

crying already. I had lots of

1:54:111:54:16

support inside the clinic and that

created a big impact when I went

1:54:161:54:21

home after I finished the ter minute

nation. Those people made my

1:54:211:54:28

experience worse than it already

was. All I kept thinking was, "Am I

1:54:281:54:33

a murderer?" I was doubting myself

and I don't think those people

1:54:331:54:38

should be in those places.

Let me

bring in Lisa, Lisa isn't her real

1:54:381:54:42

name. You also used the same clinic

and you were accompanying your

1:54:421:54:46

daughter who had an abortion, Lisa,

I understand. Tell us what happened.

1:54:461:54:52

Well, my daughter fell pregnant or

became pregnant when she was 17

1:54:521:54:56

after a two month relationship with

somebody. We had a very tearful

1:54:561:55:03

exchange where she said that she

really didn't feel that she wanted

1:55:031:55:06

to go ahead with the pregnancy. I

toll her that I would support her

1:55:061:55:11

either way. She made up her mind and

we went to Ealing. She was very

1:55:111:55:16

young. She came across these people

outside and I asked her again at

1:55:161:55:24

that time whether she was really

sure? We had the most fantastic care

1:55:241:55:30

within the clinic. They actually

asked her whether she was really

1:55:301:55:36

sure because obviously she is young

and advised her about things like

1:55:361:55:43

possible guilt and all of that, but

she went ahead and now she, you

1:55:431:55:49

know, has a daughter of he own. She

has a life. She has a PhD and I

1:55:491:55:55

don't believe any of that would have

happened if she had gone ahead with

1:55:551:55:59

the pregnancy.

What impact did the

protesters outside have on you and

1:55:591:56:04

your daughter?

It made me very angry

and her very sad.

Why did it make

1:56:041:56:11

you angry?

Because I felt that they

really should just back off. This is

1:56:111:56:19

a very hard decision. Nobody has an

abortion lightly in my view. It's a

1:56:191:56:24

very hard decision for anybody to

make. It's not easy. And so that

1:56:241:56:31

made me angry. It just made her feel

guilty, sad, you know, all the rest

1:56:311:56:38

of it.

Louisa, let me ask you, the

council meets tonight to discuss the

1:56:381:56:43

next step in whether to bring in the

protection order, do you think they

1:56:431:56:47

should?

Yes, I think they should go

ahead and those people shouldn't be

1:56:471:56:55

allowed to be at the clinic. Making

vulnerable people feel worse about

1:56:551:57:02

everything. Everybody's situation is

different. They don't know the

1:57:021:57:05

reasons why someone is there. They

shouldn't make people feel like

1:57:051:57:09

that. It's wrong.

You may have heard

the representative from the Good

1:57:091:57:14

Counsel Network say they do what she

said, was they do offer some women

1:57:141:57:18

support who look like they need

support and in some cases, the woman

1:57:181:57:22

changes her mind about having an

abortion.

Yes, it's true. Some women

1:57:221:57:27

do change their mind, but it has to

be the woman's decision. It's her

1:57:271:57:31

body. It's her decision. She is in

charge of her body. If she thinks it

1:57:311:57:35

is not the right time to have a

child, whatever circumstances she

1:57:351:57:39

has, no one should try to change her

mind. It is the woman's decision if

1:57:391:57:44

she wants to go ahead or not.

Lisa, finally, do you think any

1:57:441:57:52

protest outside abortion clinics

should be banned with the bringing

1:57:521:57:56

in of a protection order, briefly?

Briefly, applaud freedom of speech,

1:57:561:58:03

but I think that circumstances

regarding abortion are so varied

1:58:031:58:07

that they should basically not be

allowed.

OK. Thank you both. I'm

1:58:071:58:11

really grateful that you came on the

programme. Thank you, Lisa. Thank

1:58:111:58:14

you, Louisa. Thank you very much.

1:58:141:58:18

On the programme tomorrow,

how do achieve a better

1:58:181:58:20

work life balance?

1:58:201:58:23

Thank you for watching today. We're

back tomorrow at 9am. Have a good

1:58:231:58:27

day.

1:58:271:58:32

Victoria hears more about 13 brothers and sisters who were rescued from a house in California. Some of them had been chained to their beds.

She speaks to users of a Marie Stopes clinic in London, which could become the first to be surrounded by a special protection zone to shield women from anti-abortion protesters holding vigils outside.

Plus the programme hears about claims by Olympic champion gymnast Simone Biles, who says she was sexually abused by the former USA team doctor Larry Nassar.