16/02/2018 Victoria Derbyshire

Hello, it's Friday, it's 9 o'clock,

I'm Victoria Derbyshire,

welcome to the programme.

The top story today, dozens more

complaints have been made against

the former football coach temp max

one. -- Barry Bennell. It was this

interview which prompted so many

others to come forward.

My career

has been ruined, relationships have

been ruined, I just... I had to get

it out there.

Today three of those

players are back with us -

and they're joined by another man

who will tell us he was abused

by Barry Bennell on the pitch

at Man City's old ground,

Maine Road.

This morning in an exclusive

interview - a former

board member at Crewe,

Hamilton Smith, tells us he warned

the club about Bennell's behaviour

towards young boys in the late

1980s, but Bennell was allowed

to stay in his job.

With all the banter that was going

on, the special board meeting we

had, they are still saying they did

not know something was going on.

Also this morning we can reveal new

allegations have been made that

Barry Bennell abused boys while

working at a care home in Derbyshire

is the same time he was a coach at

Manchester City.

A lot of the boys

talked about him abusing other boys

while at the home and getting

involved with them, taking them to

his flat, things like that.

This morning: football's biggest

crisis - stay with us for this

special programme on football abuse.

And do get in touch

in the usual ways -

send an email [email protected]

or can you message us on twitter -

use the hastag #VictoriaLive.

Hello.

This morning on the Victoria

Derbyshire Programme serious

questions for two large

professional football clubs.

Could more have been done to protect

dozens of young players

from horrific sexual abuse?

Next week the former football coach

Barry Bennell will be sentenced

for abusing 12 young boys

over three decades.

Jim Reed reports.

My name is Steve Walters.

I was abused by Barry Bennell.

Left damaged by a man who,

for three decades, went

almost unchallenged.

Three footballers yesterday

waiving their rights to anonymity

to talk about the abuse they went

through as young children.

For years, hundreds of us

were groomed in plain view.

The shame, the nightmares...

No child should suffer

the way we did.

How can it be that no one realised

something was wrong?

Barry Bennell, now 64,

watched by video link

as the verdicts were read

out in court.

Shaking his head, as he was found

guilty of every charge against him.

The jury heard him described

as an abuser on an industrial scale,

a man who used threats and promises

to groom both children

and their families.

He abused them time and time again.

He abused them at his home,

in his car, at Butlins holiday

camp and while on tour.

Next week he will be sentenced

for offences against 12 players.

It is his fourth prison term

after a first conviction in 1994

in the United States.

Good morning, we are talking

to Chris Unsworth...

The verdict comes more than a year

after two of those players appeared

live on this programme.

They spoke out alongside former

Crewe footballer Andy Woodward,

another of Bennell's victims.

Careers have been ruined,

relationships have been ruined.

It is understood the

investigation into Bennell's

crimes may not be over.

Police have taken calls

from another 86 men who said

there were abused by the coach,

a coach who, for three decades,

went almost unchallenged

by the clubs who worked for.

went almost unchallenged

by the clubs he worked for.

Big questions, tough questions for

the clubs involved. We spoke to

people who used to work in very

senior positions at both clubs,

concerns were being raised 40-50

years ago. We will hear from the

former managing director of crew

Alexandrova FC who said concerns

were raised at board level, the club

has was denied this and we've

uncovered new allegations while

Barry Bennell was a coach at

Manchester City he was also

allegedly abusing boys at a care

home.

Thank you. In a moment an

exclusive interview with these men

who were all abused by Barry

Bennell. We will talk to Andy

Woodward, Gary Cliff, Steve Walters

in just a moment. But first...

Annita is in the BBC

Newsroom with a summary

of the rest of the days news.

The head of Oxfam International says

the charity will look into

Anyone his

allegations of sexual abuse.

whiny beanie met said any complaint

would be examined and wrongdoers

would be held to account.

Police in Florida say the teenager

accused of killing 17 people

at a high school on Wednesday has

confessed to the shooting.

19-year-old Nikolas Cruz has

appeared in court charged with 17

counts of premeditated murder.

It's emerged the FBI had been

alerted to potential warning signs

of the former student's intentions

in the past.

New figures show a dramatic

reduction in the number of young

people buying their own

homes across the UK,

over the last 20 years.

The Institute for Fiscal Studies

found only a quarter

of those aged 25 to 34,

on average incomes,

were able to buy a property,

compared to 2 out of 3 in 1998.

A BBC investigation has revealed

a significant difference

between the highest earning male

and female consultants working

for the NHS in England.

Figures show that one in five

of the top 100 earners are women,

while on average full time men

earned £14,000 a year more

than their female counterparts

when including

bonuses and overtime.

Of the top 100 earning consultants

five are women despite more than a

third of the workforce being female.

The Department of Health says it is

committed to ensuring doctors are

awarded early and equally regardless

of gender. -- fairly and equally.

The Hollywood actress

Jennifer Aniston has announced

she is to separate from her husband

Justin Theroux after

two years of marriage.

The pair, who were married

in a secret ceremony

in Los Angeles in 2015,

reportedly met on the set

of comedy film Wanderlust.

They gave no reason for the split

but said it was a mutual decision

which had been "lovingly made"

at the end of last year.

That's a summary of the latest BBC

News - more at 9.30.

Messages already for you town-mac --

from you for these men who gave

evidence against Barry Bennell,

Hillary said all praise to these men

for coming forward, such courage, I

hope this verdict gives them some

peace in their lives. Leanne says

it's horrific for the victims and

unimaginable for their parents,

heartbreakingly sad.

Thank you for

those.

Do get in touch with us

throughout the morning -

use the hashtag Victoria LIVE

and If you text, you will be charged

at the standard network rate.

Let's get some sport...Hugh is here.

Good morning. Good morning. Britain

has its first medal of the Winter

Olympics, a bronze medal, in

dramatic fashion as to Dominic

Parsons and the skeleton. Fourth

overnight, moved into third after a

strong run, a solid final outing

secured bronze but he faltered

slightly, it was enough to make it

look like he was going to finish

outside the medals. Those above him

in the standings delighted but

Parsons got his chance had gone,

then came the twist. The five-time

world champion from Latvia made a

mistake in his final run, cute

surprise, it left Parsons picking up

a bronze and claiming the first

medal in Pyeongchang.

I thought I'd

lost it, after that, before

throwing, I looked up at the board

and I made a couple too many

mistakes but he made more, the last

person I thought would.

After

finishing seventh in his first

cross-country skiing event Andrew

Musgrave suffered more in the 15

kilometres freestyle coming in 28th.

This Swiss winner claimed his fourth

Olympic title. Elsewhere away from

Pyeongchang Alex McLeish has agreed

to become Scotland manager of the

second time until 2020, 11 years

since he left the job first time.

The former Rangers and Birmingham

boss replaces Boardman Strachan.

Michael O'Neill the Northern Ireland

manager was unable to be secured for

the job. Liam Plunkett has

aggravated a terror he suffered in

the one-day series against

Australia, he returned for the tri-

series against New Zealand. England

said Abel announce a replacement in

the coming days, the one-day series

against New Zealand starting a week

on Sunday. That's your sport. Thank

you.

15 months ago this

programme exclusively

spoke to these four men -

who with quiet emotion told

you about the horrific sexual abuse

they'd experienced three and a half

decades earlier, as young

footballers - abuse perpetrated

by their coach Barry Bennell who had

links with Manchester City

junior teams and worked

at Crewe Alexandra Football club.

They also told you they believed

dozens of other boys had also

been abused by Bennell.

They were right.

As a result of that interview -

many more came forward to say

they too had been abused by the same

coach, and in fact

others in football.

Now Bennell - described in court

as a "predatory paedophile" has been

convicted of 43 sexual offences

on boys he was meant to mentor.

It's the fourth time the paedophile

coach has been convicted of crimes

ranging from indecent assault

to rape.

He will be sentenced on Monday and

is facing the rest of his life we

find bars. We can speak exclusively

to three men who gave evidence in

the most recent trial and the former

player who lifted the lid on

football abuse. Andy Woodward, whose

initial interview on this programme

and the Guardian prompted others to

speak out including some of these

here today. Chris Unsworth who told

us 15 months ago he had been raped

up to 100 times by Barry Bennell up

to the age of nine. Steve Walters

who broke three decades of public

silence to tell us about the abuse

he experienced from the age of 12

when he stayed at the home of Barry

Bennell. And also Gary Cliff, who

was abused by Barry Bennell than he

was a junior team player. They have

all waived their right to anonymity

to talk to you this morning and as

you would expect, some of what we

talk about will be graphic and Frank

and you may not want children to

listen. Good morning. Good morning.

Good morning. Thank you for coming

back, already I have dozens and

dozens and dozens of messages from

viewers saying you are very brave

men. I want to ask you how you are

feeling after the final verdict

yesterday. Gary.

Victoria, I can't

believe I am sat here with you. I

have waited two and a half years

basically to sit here with you, to

speak about this. I came forward in

September 2015, and I suppose she

could say I have waited over 30

years, really. Myself, I got seven

counts guilty, six on Tuesday, and I

had to wait a day and yesterday, I

got the final count of guilty to

make seven but what I can say,

Victoria, if people think this is

horrific, this isn't even scratching

the surface. You know and I know the

real number is tenfold in terms of

offences and lads affected by this.

So I am delighted at the result

but... We've got the sentence on

Monday, but another hurdle to go to.

I will be attending the personal

statement...

But as far as you are

concerned, as prolific as we know

this paedophile was, you said this

is still the tip of the iceberg?

Yes, in terms of lives that have

come forward, I know there's many

more lads out there and I am hoping

they can find strength, they don't

have to go to the police, just

confide in family, friends, because

they cannot carry that burden. When

I saw the lads in November 20 16th,

absolutely phenomenal, I was

working, I was searching someone's

house and the messages were coming

through and it was so impacted and

we want to reach out to those

people, that crap is not there is to

carry. It really isn't. It is his.

To carry.

We can help them. OK.

Steve, do you feel justice has been

done?

Yes. We've had six weeks of

torment, the ordeal of going through

the cord procedure was awful. -- the

cord procedure. Going to the stand,

telling complete strangers, your

family, your friends, about your

abuse, more importantly the jury.

Thankfully they believe doesn't came

to the right conclusion. I feel now

I've got a bit of justice and that

man no longer has the power over me,

I've got the power over him, to me

he is a pathetic little man, dirty

little man, ruining peoples lives

but he's not going to ruin my life

any more. So I want to move onwards

and upwards.

Chris you have known for decades

what Barry

Chris you have known for decades

what Barry Bennell was, a devious

paedophile, abusing young boys on an

industrial scale. What does it feel

like to now know that the rest of

the country will appreciate how

dangerous he was?

Like Gary said, we

knew a year ago how big this was

going to be. Now it is coming to

light. Like he said, it is just the

tip of the iceberg. We know there

are more and more lads out there.

Hopefully, us being here today, it

may give them the strength to come

forward. There is light at the end

of the tunnel.

When you are hearing

those verdicts come in for each

offence, guilty, guilty, that must

have been so emotional for all of

you?

It was a roller-coaster that

day. Obviously they didn't all come

in. The first one came in, I had

five charges read out, all guilty.

The boy next to me, he didn't. It

was just a roller-coaster. They went

on and on. Just very hard to explain

that day. The next day, the jury

didn't sit, so it's dragged a little

bit. But we got there in the end.

I

think you were holding hands towards

the end yesterday? In court?

We were

sat on the back row, all in it

together. None of us could

celebrate, really, told a lot of us

had guilty verdicts. It felt like

you were cheating, my three charges

were guilty, but there were other

guys that are still waiting on

verdicts. We were in this

altogether.

Bennell appeared via

video link. He was not in the

courtroom. What did you think when

you saw him on the screen?

For

myself, Victoria... He was nothing

to me. It was not how I remembered

him as a kid. He should have been in

the court, as far as I am concerned.

That is another story. I was focused

on giving my evidence. I wanted to

get my stuff out there.

You will be

in the same courtroom on Monday when

sentencing happens, to hear what

punishment he will get for what he

did to you. How do you feel about

seeing him face-to-face?

I have

always said I want to have my day

with him, look him in the eye,

face-to-face. We didn't get that

chance when the trial was going on.

Monday, I will be there and I will

look him in the eye.

It's important

for you he is there?

It is important

for me personally, just to get that

closure, hopefully to hear the judge

say... Well, hopefully life in

prison.

Steve, is it important for

you that Barry Bennell is in court

on Monday?

Like Chris just

mentioned, that will be the final

chapter of it, and give us the

chance to move on. This man, up to

the last, has shown no remorse. I

want the opportunity to look him in

the eye and say I am over you now.

He has no power over me. You know, I

am going on, I am surviving, moving

on. He has not beaten us, he has not

beaten me, he has not beaten us. We

are still here and we are going to

start a new chapter in our lives.

He

has ruined our childhood, ruined our

dreams. But he will not ruin our

lives.

Andy, you are the man that

started all of this. You spent a lot

of time in court, supporting these

guys. What was this experience like

for you?

Yes, it was just... I'm

really proud of the guys, because it

is a gruelling process, and a long

process to go through. Unbeknownst

to me, when I broke the story, I

didn't realise that Gary was...

Obviously he had previously reported

it. It brought back a lot of

memories with Gary. But I am proud

of Gary, being able to stick this

through for two and a half years,

which is a long time. Also for me,

there were elements were, back in

1997, when I did give my statement,

it was quite rushed. I had only just

broke it to my parents. The

statement was 10% or 20% of what

happened to me. I had a decision to

make last year, whether I wanted to

do a further statement, and I chose

not to do that because of the

magnitude of everything, and what I

was doing in terms of my mental

well-being. For me, it was a relief

that the guys got the guilty

verdict, and they were able to move

forward with their lives. You know,

it has such an impact on people's

lives.

I want to ask you, Gary, and

I know you are comfortable talking

to the audience about this, but when

the abuse first began. It was pretty

much as soon as he got to know Barry

Bennell, in a Manchester City junior

team?

Yes, I got scouted by a

Manchester City Scout, not Barry.

But very quickly he became a coach,

and he came up with a story that he

wanted each member of the new team

to go to his house, two by two, to

get to know them, meet and greet. So

there was no grooming process with

me. The first Friday night I stayed

there, at his home, the abuse

started. Two boys in the bed, he was

in the middle, straightaway it was

sexual touching.

How old were you?

11. And it just goes on. I have said

it in the interviews, you let it

happen the first time, you are a

child, you feel complicit in it, it

goes on, you go back the following

week and it goes on. You have not

got the words, you've not got the

vocabulary to express. You know it

is wrong, but there is nobody to

speak to. Lads didn't speak to each

other, no parents said anything, no

officials were saying anything.

What

did you think was going on? You must

have been feeling desperate?

You

know it is wrong, but you think, is

a defection? Is it... Is this what

you have got to go through? -- is it

a affection.

Best football I have ever seen, even

to this day, it was a perfect storm,

almost a perfect crime, because he

was that good. He was at a

professional club, Manchester City.

The football was brilliant. We would

go all over the country, beating

everybody. But the other side of it

has totally ruined my life.

We are

showing images of you as a young

boy. In terms of your own story, you

were from Plymouth, coming up to

crew, were Barry Bennell was

working. You were away from home,

away from your parents, and you

lived at his home. Your parents

trusted him, you trusted him. In

terms of the grooming process, that

home had free kit, it had a jukebox,

it had exotic animals.

He had a pool

table, jukebox, a puma or a panther,

he even had a monkey. He had a room

full of sports gear, you could just

go in and help yourself. I came from

Plymouth, no disrespect to Plymouth

back then, but designer gear was

never something that reached down

there, it was cut off from society.

Walking around in decent sports

gear, it was part of his grooming

process.

You had England prospects.

You were such a promising player.

What impact did what he did have on

you?

I just became totally reserved.

All of a sudden, I stopped staying

at his house, I was not allowed to

stay there. So, I went to an FA

School of excellence and became

totally reserved. I was training

nonstop, just to try to forget about

it. I will bury my head in my

football, try and forget about what

happened. It just totally messes up

your childhood.

The first time he

tried to abuse you, you told him to

clear off. Which is when he began

with mind games, what did he do?

He

started playing me in different

positions. For the first time ever

he made me a substitute. Looking

back now, I think I even went to

another club for a short spell and

came back again, it affected me that

much. Eventually he brought me down,

the amount of lads from back then

were surprised, because they thought

I was strong. But you look at the

photographs, I was just a child and

I have no chance. I can always

remember, he got me in a pressure

point somewhere, it might have been

on my neck or my back, and you're

just paralysed with fear. He had

none -- he would intimidate you, and

you are paralysed with fear.

You

told the court that the only people

you told about the abuse that

Bennell subjected you to work us on

this programme, our audience, when

you spoke live that day in November

2016, to the police, and to the jury

in court. Why do you think you

haven't told anyone else?

I don't

know, really. I must feel ashamed.

Or... I don't really know. Still

now, I have never really disclosed

any information to my family, still.

My sister, my brother, my nephews,

my partner. My partner read my

police statement on the day that I

appeared in court, and she wrote --

broke down. I can talk about it. It

does help me talk about it. But I

won't really bring it up. If people

ask me, I'm not ashamed at all. You

know, we were all boys.

What was it

like to carry that around with you

privately, for decades?

Like I have

said many times, I just forgot about

it. My life as a boy, playing

football, we had ups and downs. But

the abuse side, I just completely

forgot about it. Like I said on this

show, luckily, when I was 14 or 15,

I never wanted to play football

again and I turned to golf, and that

was my passion. That was my get out.

I am going to read some more

messages from people watching right

around the country. This tweet from

Saffron, feeling so proud of these

victims coming through and breaking

the silence. Every victim that

chooses to do so helps to make the

world a better place. This is an

e-mail from David, I have watched

this story from the beginning, I

feel sympathy for these men. Deirdre

posted on Facebook, for these men it

is such a painful part of their

lives and they have to get through

each day with the memories, but I

believe their courage in speaking

out will help others, children and

adults, to speak out about abuse

they are suffering or have suffered.

Stay strong, you are not alone.

People do care and want to stop this

happening to others. This text

message from somebody who does not

leave their name, I am inspired by

the guys that have spoken out. I was

abused by a teacher at school and it

is making me think I should speak

out. My heart goes out to them. I

mean, that is quite something.

Yes.

Because of what you are doing,

others are thinking, maybe I can do

this.

It is a huge burden to carry

on your shoulders. If you are

keeping that locked away inside one

person's mind, you have got to come

forward and tell somebody. Go to the

police, go to any support services,

just do the right thing. Tell

somebody.

What would you say?

Yes,

you know, it is like Steve just

said. I think the people that

understand and know what it feels

like to block that pain in for such

a long time. Some people take it to

the grave. I do believe, if I hadn't

done what I did in November, lads

would probably, some of them, they

would have targeted to the grave. It

is living with that burden. It ruins

people's lives. I do believe that

there is help out there. Now it is

such a focal point, since November,

that I think people are starting to

get a voice. More and more people

killed courage to get the help. Even

if they are not going to report it

to the police. The support networks,

family members, whoever it is, just

to let go of that. It is torture.

Do you think you would have spoken

out if it hadn't been for Andy,

Chris?

No, I don't think I would. I

only saw Andy's face and I knew

exactly what this story was about.

I'm sure I would have taken this to

my grave.

I read the article in the

Guardian newspaper and the

experience was just the same as

mine. We used to stay all the time

together at his house.

Gary, you

were abused by Barry Bennell in the

car at your home, at his home and

also on the pitch at Maine Road, the

Manchester City old ground.

This has

been said in cord, I was asked

whether prosecutor, he went through

the locations, yes, on the pitch at

Maine Road, probably 12, 13 years,

pre-season, summertime, to walk out

of that tunnel as any footballer

knows, onto the massive expanse of

the green pitch is amazing, no one

there, I can remember apart from the

Granz man, he had the run of the

place, me and one other boy, spied

an opportunity just behind the goal,

I think it was the North stand, as

he did in them days, he carried a

bit of coconut oil around with him

as some of the boys would know, we

had track a bottom is on and it was

a sexual assault on the pitch, two

or three times during pre-season.

Yes.

What do you think of that when

you look back now?

I am constantly

kind of sort of, the football side

of it was brilliant, you go in

there, due or on the pitch and you

want to be a footballer and that

happens, the great skua part, you

are constantly in limbo which way to

go with it. But loads of regrets.

Why do you say that? You carry the

Guild.

That thing of should you have

said something. Because boys after

me, you carry that guilt, lads

younger than me that suffered, then

you turn it around, lads before me,

you carry massive irrational

thoughts, I've been diagnosed with

PTSD, I know it's stupid that you

can't turn them off.

Andy, 40 you

say to Gary when he says he feels

guilt?

When we first met it was

really emotional. Because I used to

look up to Gary and he used to cook

the food for us as younger boys. But

it's like I said to him, I also have

the same guilt and I've had that for

many, many years with younger ones

than I was and living with that, its

tortuous, the PTSD that I have, it

runs through your mind about, I

could have done something, why

didn't I? Why didn't I? But we all

know that hidden secret that we had,

I said to Gary, it's the same for

me, even the older ones, it's the

same burden and guilt that you live

with but I really don't think that

people fully understand the

magnitude and the power that man had

over all of us. Honestly, honestly,

it was just horrendous the power he

had and it just shows the silence we

all had for many, many years, but I

don't think any of us should feel

guilty. Because what he did, he was

a master at it, he was a master.

Thank you for speaking so candidly,

I know you are staying here, we've

got much more to talk about and

there are so many messages which of

course I want to read to you. Thank

you for the moment.

Let's talk in a little more detail

about the clubs that Barry Bennell

worked for and that these

men played for.

Our reporter Jim Reed has been

looking at those links.

Jim.

As you've heard Barry Bennell worked

for two clubs over three decades -

Manchester City and Crewe Alexandra.

We've been asking what officials

there knew about his behaviour.

And whether more could and should

have been done to protect young

players in his care.

To boys and parents

he was the star maker.

A talented coach who could

make or break dreams

of turning professional.

Barry Bennell had strong

links to two teams...

Manchester City and Crewe Alexandra.

He was this Pied Piper character.

What young boy who aspired to be

a professional footballer wouldn't

look up to that character,

and respond to what they said

was necessary in order

to make that grade?

Those Man City links

go back to the 1970s.

Bennell ran local feeder teams,

with the best players

joining the City set up.

From early on, there were rumours

about his behaviour.

Steve Fleet was in charge

of the Man City youth team.

He told us he was under

pressure to hire Bennell,

and give him an official role

at the club.

I put my foot down.

I wasn't working with

a person like that.

I'd heard he was doing things

with kids that weren't normal.

That time, Fleet said

he won the argument.

It was after he left, in 1980,

that it appears Bennell

became more involved.

Yes, he was definitely part

of the Manchester City set up.

Whether or not they paid his wages,

I don't honestly know.

Manchester City is now conducting

its own review into this case.

Bennell's victims are convinced more

could have been done.

Even though there were very

clear warnings given,

those warnings seem to be

just flatly ignored.

It's not clear why Bennell left

City, but in 1984 he ended up

at another club in the north-west.

Crewe Alexandra was struggling

in the old Fourth Division.

The club had just appointed a young

manager, Dario Gradi, who knew

Bennell from his time at Chelsea.

Bennell was on the club payroll,

responsible for youth

development and scouting.

There's more to it than just coming

here one hour a week.

They need to - well,

we give them homework.

He was so good at bringing

players through, that

when they were sold on,

Gradi asked for Bennell to receive

a share of the money,

according to the club's

then managing director.

Again, though, there were rumours

about Barry Bennell's dark side.

The mother of a young Crewe player

said she sent an anonymous letter

to complain about boys sharing hotel

beds with Bennell.

Someone must have known

it was going on, it can't just have

been me that told somebody

there was something going on.

But there was no allegation

of abuse, and we don't know if that

letter was ever received by Crewe.

The strongest warning, though,

is said to have come

from within the club itself.

Former managing director

Hamilton Smith said he told

the club's then chairman,

and the board, about Bennell's

contacts with young boys.

Everybody involved could have done

and should have done a lot more.

Dario Gradi has always

denied any wrongdoing,

and says the first he or anyone else

at Crewe knew of any crimes was

after Barry Bennell left the club.

Crewe Alexandra say if they had

any suspicion Bennell

was committing acts of abuse,

they would have called

the police immediately.

In addition, we know another 86

people have contact at police with

complaints against Barry Bennell,

the Football Association has opened

its own independent inquiry into

historic abuse in football, that is

due to report back later this year

and we think one of the main focus

is will be if clubs could have done

more, should have known more about

what was going on and we understand

they have taken evidence from many

of the people you heard from in that

film. Let me ask you, I was taught

with you Steve, Hamilton Smith, the

then manager spoke to the chairman

about rumours surrounding Barry

Bennell, there was that special

board meeting Jim told us about cold

to discuss Barry Bennell

specifically. How do you react to

that?

So upsetting. I mentioned to

you before, I always thought Dario

saved me from Barry Bennell.

Obviously the information that has

kind of, forward, I don't think for

one second Dario would ever have

done anything himself, I've always

looked up to him but somebody about

football club from management level

or board level must have known, you

know, the rumours, the suspicions.

They did know because that's what

Hamilton Smith...

Hamilton is a

lovely fella, I've spoke to him an a

few times and he's very passionate

about this, why would somebody like

that come forward without any

substance? The club need to take a

good look at themselves and address

this.

The club released a statement

yesterday saying they would like to

express their deepest sympathies to

the victims of Barry Bennell, they

go on the club would like to

reiterate it was not aware of any

sexual abuse nor did it received any

complaints about sexual abuse by him

either before or during his

employment with the club. Further

the police have recently undertaken

a third investigation to determine

what knowledge drew Alexandrova may

have had at the offending while he

was employed as a coach and as a

result the police found no evidence

to corroborate the club was aware of

Barry Bennell's offending, they want

to make it absolutely clear had they

had any suspicion or belief he was

committing acts of abuse either

before, during or after he left the

club's employment, the club would

have informed police immediately.

You will know Dario miaow three has

always said he did not know what

Harry Bedell was doing. The first

team he was 1994. What do you think?

I

think the -- now we are moving

forward, discussions need to be had.

Personally, I was in an office and

there was argument is between Mr

Gradi and Barry Bennell Abbott who

was going to stay at his house over

the weekend and the argument was

about me. And I could clearly hear

outside the argument about whether I

was staying at Mr Gradi house or

Barry Bennell's house.

But does not

mean Gradi knew anything.

Absolutely. But in terms of the club

and what was said around other

football clubs, it was like on the

programme last night, it was

discussed about Barry's bomb boys...

That was the insult around the

dressing room. -- bum.

Former MD of Crewe Hamilton Smith

who called a special board meeting

because of the rumours surrounding

Bennell's behaviour towards boys

watched the interview with the four

ex-players on this programme back

in November 2016, and he now wants

to pay tribute to them

but in particular Andy Woodward.

It really was a powerful programme,

and I just couldn't start to imagine

what this poor lad had gone through.

It was horrific.

It was horrific.

And I thought, here's a victim.

I've got a victim now.

And I said, well, I'm

going to support this lad

as much as I possibly can.

He released me in a way.

He was a victim.

He was a guy I waited to hear.

Andy Woodward not only helped

clear my conscience,

he helped all these other people,

all these other players.

I don't think Andy Woodward realises

what he actually did and how

many people he helped.

I don't think he -

that's, I don't think he's

got the scale on that.

That's what I think about it.

And these other players that came

out and appeared on television

and press and so on,

it's such a brave

thing to do, you know.

Really, these people now,

they were - when I go back and say

I had a choice to make,

sit back and don't do anything,

or come out and help,

they didn't have a choice.

They were abused.

They didn't have a choice.

Andy, how do you react to that?

Well, that such a powerful thing

what Hamilton has said about me, I'm

quite touched to say the least. I am

really proud of what I did. And it

was the most difficult situation the

most difficult decision to make. In

my entire life. And the last year or

so has been really tough, it's been

hard but I'm so pleased that I did

do this because now with, you know,

initially Steve and Chris being here

and Gary Wilson the background, this

has highlighted this now and

hopefully it will save so many

people's lives because we can't lose

anyone else, you know, what's more

important is that football in

general now, they are standing up

and they are accountable for what

happened in the past but importantly

we can move things forward and I am

so proud of what Hamilton said about

me and that is such a nice thing for

him to say.

A text message from Mrs

Smith, these four fantastic men

under the other poor victims of

Bennell are so brave and they fully

deserved financial compensation from

the FA. This text, this had me in

tears, when you hear others express

the abuse they suffered, seen grown

men cry makes me very sad and angry.

Again, such bravery. Michelle, all

power, solidarity and love going out

to the rape survivors of Bennell's

abuse, sad for those that did not

live to see justice prevail.

Another, mass respect to all of

these men, well done. The map. You

give hope to men everywhere to

report abuse. Richard says,

listening to past footballers abused

by Barry Bennell is heartbreaking

and astonishing. This evil, twisted

sexual abuse was free to abuse

hundreds of children for decades. So

brave, guys. I want to ask you why

you think he got away with it for so

long. What would you say, Gary?

Like

we said before, he got away with it

because he was so good at what he

did, in terms of football, his

ability and skills. Also, the

parents, it has been said many

times, he groomed the parents.

Everybody around him thought he was

wonderful. He came across as a

larger-than-life character, very

charismatic. He'd got the gear,

flash cards, who was generous, he

was never violent towards us. I now

know how far he went with each boy,

he tested each of them to see how

far he could get with them. You have

the whole degrees of abuse. A

perfect storm, almost, until we grew

into men and stood up to him, and

put him where he should be now.

If

any of this has brought up any

issues for you when it comes to

abuse, you can find a list of

helplines that will offer support

and advice.

As much as he abused children, he

was also an expert groomer of

adults. So many of the mothers and

fathers of the boys were taken in by

promises to make their son a top

player.

One couple were Olympic medallists

who got married. Their sons were no

less talented. They both ended up

playing professional football for

Manchester City and were trained by

Bennell in the early 80s, although

there was no suggestion they were

abused by him.

They never expected there was

anything sinister about him, they

invited him over for Christmas

dinner and when he was arrested they

wrote him a good character

reference. They had little idea of

what would follow. We spoke to them

about what they remembered about the

coach at the centre of the trial and

what they made of the subsequent

scandals.

He was a young, attractive,

charismatic coach.

He was a bit of a Pied Piper really,

the kids followed him.

He was brilliant with a football.

His skills were second to none -

kids lapped it up.

So my first impressions

were all good.

He's more, more of a leader of kids,

and an educator of kids in sport

than anyone I've come across.

You never had any reason at that

stage to be suspicious

about what he was like.

None whatsoever.

What we're talking about is

all a matter of trust.

And we had trust in the guy.

He appeared to have respect

from many quarters inside the game.

He was welll thought of, he appeared

to have excellent contacts.

He was just a very plausible guy.

Were you given the impression

that he was part of

the Manchester City set up,

part of the coaching staff there?

Well, yes, because David

in particular used to go

training at Platt Lane,

which is where the Manchester

City side at the time,

they all trained there.

So, yes, he was definitely part

of the Manchester City set up.

Can you give us a sense of Bennell's

relationship with the parents

in the team as well,

because he became quite close

to many of the parents

of the boys involved.

We felt slightly sorry for him

because he didn't seem

to have a family around him,

and I don't think he got paid

very much, if at all.

I wasn't even sure

if he got paid at all.

So, yes, we became friends with him,

really, I must admit,

and looking back, it was a disaster,

wasn't it, you know.

It's just disappointing.

Well, on one occasion we invited him

here for Christmas lunch.

Yes, we found out that he was on his

own at Christmas, and said, well,

come along and have Christmas Day

lunch with us.

He didn't come, but we'd have been

happy for him to come.

Definitely.

Is there anything now that you think

the warning signs were there?

Yes, in the fact that there

were young players that

were staying at his place,

overnight, and then maybe would go

to training the next day.

Now, these days, now, I think

we would be suspicious about that.

But we weren't.

And I don't think we were unusual.

I don't think that anybody

thought twice about it,

because he had ingratiated himself

with sports people, with the people

like Manchester City,

who he was linked with.

People like us, as parents,

and the young boys.

He would ingratiate himself

with the family in order

to give them confidence,

in order to get their trust.

End of story.

And he was an actor on his stage,

which he did very, very well.

He'd learned his lines very well.

And we were, in retrospect,

perhaps gullible, but as Anne said,

you know, you just don't think

about these things.

Robbie, when did you first

hear about allegations

of abuse against Bennell?

I had a letter from,

I think it must have

been his girlfriend,

or I had a letter from somebody

to say that he had been

charged with an offence,

and obviously there was no

foundation to the charge,

and he was innocent,

and would I like to write a little

testimonial for him?

And, to the best of

my knowledge, I did.

But when all this started

unravelling and it was clear

he was guilty of these offences,

what was your reaction?

We were totally shocked.

Extremely disappointed.

Very sad for the victims

and their families, because parents

can feel terrible guilt.

You know, if you've been conned

by someone, and your children have

suffered as a result,

naturally, you know,

you're going to feel

very unhappy about that.

I think the victims and the families

are the people who've

suffered dreadfully,

but after that sport, as we've said,

has been a major casualty.

It now appears that people in senior

positions at Manchester City

were at least aware of rumours

about the behaviour

of Barry Bennell.

Should they have done more to tell

the parents involved?

Should they have done more

to investigate these rumours?

If they were aware, then it's

unforgivable that they didn't

do something about it,

that they didn't expose it,

and even worse, that he went

on to another club to do exactly

the same thing.

If the allegations were serious

enough, I'm sure some action

should have been taken.

Well, I know some action

should have been taken,

otherwise we wouldn't be sitting

here talking about it.

Ann Packer and Robbie Brightwell

speaking exclusively to our reporter

Jim Reed about how Barry Bennell not

only groomed boys but

also their parents.

There's no suggestion

their sons - Ian and David -

were abused.

And Andy, Steve, Chris

and Gary - your parents

were groomed too weren't they?

Absolutely. Totally taken in by him.

As was every parent. No blame at all

attached to my mum and dad. My mum

gave evidence for me last week. She

went to court and stood in that

courtroom. She corroborated

everything that had been said. He

did.

He was such a manipulator. Your

parents invited him over for

Christmas dinner, he stayed at your

house? He stayed in your house?

Because I lived near to Crewe, my

mother ended up working in the shop

for him as well. She would say, come

and stay overnight, Barry. It was a

Monday night, and he ended up

staying in my room and he abused me

in my own home.

Steve, your mum was

also taken in by him?

Yes. I only

found out in the last few years that

my mum and dad, and my nan had

stayed in his house. I can't

remember that. My dad used to work

at the Football Club as well, there

was a slight overlap when they were

working together. It was just all

part of his tactics.

Andy, your

family, he manipulated members of

your family?

Yes, like Gary, his

magnitude of power over the parents

was huge. Myself, it was the same

pattern, coming to the house, having

Christmas dinner, having dinner most

times, really, coming round. You

know, he even had control in the

house, where he would take over the

control of the television, and put

on what he wanted. That is the power

he had. At no point did my parents

have any idea. Not only that, my

parents were really strict with me,

where they would not even let me go

100 metres out of the house. They

were that protective.

Your parents

trusted him because he had groomed

them so effectively. Your mum kiss

and dads would let you stay at his

house, because they were thinking he

is the coach, he's going to make

them a professional footballer. --

your mum and dad. Your parents

trusted him to take you to training

and back?

Absolutely, this guy knew

what he was doing. He rapped

everybody around his little finger.

Full

It was said in court that he was a

devious paedophile?

Was the power of

the manipulation this man had. He

ended up marrying my sister, and he

groomed my family and her. I am

protecting my sister, and I will

always do that. But that man groomed

my family to the point, and also my

sister. It is just unbelievable,

really.

Tracey has e-mailed, I am

watching your programme and followed

it from your first programme about

abuse in football. As a sibling of

two brothers who suffered sexual

abuse by a male teacher when they

were seven and nine years old, my

younger brother hung himself at 20,

and my other brother drank himself

to death at 33. Sexual abuse is such

a difficult ordeal to recover from.

My brothers never did. Thank you to

all of the brave men who came

forward to talk about abuse.

Terms

of my parents, I know that Steve

recently lost his mum. My dad passed

away in August. At least we have

been able to give our parents that

release. I know that my dad is up

there watching, I am sure Steve's

mum is as well, that we were able to

give them that release, that they

were not on their own. They were all

manipulated, like every parent has

been.

Is that right, Steve?

Yes, my

mum was diagnosed with lung cancer,

and passed away in June.

I just hope she is watching now and

can rest in peace now.

She would be

proud of you, mate.

She was my rock,

and when I lost her, it was hard.

My

dad was my best friend, they never

missed a game, my mum and dad. They

went all over the country. I know my

mum is watching now and is really

proud of me. She is finding it

really hard. But I am so proud of

them, and the way, the dignity that

they have dealt with all of this. I

am sure all parents have. You know,

it is hard for them will stop there

will be parents out there that will

be suffering from this right now.

But I will say something, no parent

in this country that has been

affected by Barry Bennell should

have any guilt or any shame. He

manipulated everybody.

He manipulated everybody.

This is

unforgivable behaviour from someone

who was given a position of trust

says one viewers. You aren't weakens

for others to come forward and stamp

out the abuse of young boys. Thank

you. An e-mail from someone who does

not leave their name, I respect your

guests for speaking out about

trauma, I wish I had been strong

enough to follow through, I

confronted my abuser. He died so I

never have made in Court,

unfortunately this is a dirty memory

that you have to live with forever,

a female and it can have a very

negative impact on your life

especially than others sweep it

under the carpet and another from

Oliver on Twitter, inspiring stuff

watching these guys talk about such

horrific abuse, no one should carry

that to the grave, serious questions

need to be asked of Crewe Alexandra

and Manchester City. We are going to

talk more to Andy and Chris and Gary

and Steve in the next hour.

Hello, it's Friday, it's 10 o'clock,

I'm Victoria Derbyshire.

Our top story today,

serious questions about how

paedophile football coach

Barry Bennell was allowed

to operate for so long

at two football clubs,

abusing dozens of boys,

seemingly undetected.

This morning four men abused by

Barry Bennell share their

experiences, they believe the scale

of abuse is far greater than what he

has been conveyed that of so far.

We

know and we knew a year ago how big

this was going to be and now it's

coming to light and like Gary said,

it's just the tip of the iceberg. We

know there's more and more out

there.

Another of Bennell's victims -

Gary Cliffe - told us earlier how

the former coach abused him

on the pitch at Manchester City's

former ground, Maine Road.

There was no one there, I can

remember, apart from the groundsman,

he had the run of the place, me and

one other boy, he spied an

opportunity we find the goal.

Crewe Alexandra's former managing

director has exclusively told this

programme that he warned the club

about Barry Bennell's behaviour

during the late 80s -

but the coach was allowed to stay

in his job.

With all the banter that was going

on, all that was happening, the

board meeting we had, the special

board meeting, and they still say

they didn't know what was going on.

Also this morning -

we can reveal that new allegations

have been made that Bennell abused

boys whilst working at a care home

In Derbyshire

In Derbyshire

there was talk about him taking

to his flat...

What lessons can be

learned from this episode and what

can parents do to keep their

children safe?

We will look at the

options organisations can take to

mandatory reporting.

Here's Annita in the BBC Newsroom

with a summary of todays news.

Thank you and good morning.

The Football Association

is to review thousands of files

to find out how much was known

about the abuse carried out

by former youth coach Barry Bennell,

as part of its internal review.

Yesterday he was found guilty

of another seven counts

of sexually abusing boys -

meaning he's now been convicted

of a total of 43 offences

between 1979 and 1990.

Speaking on this programme,

one of his victims, Gary Cliffe,

urged others to come forward.

In terms of lives that have come

forward I know there is many, many

more lads out there and I'm hoping

they can find strength, they don't

have to go to the police, just to

confide in family, friends, the

cause they cannot carry that burden.

Barry then all will be sentenced on

Monday and one of his victims says

he will be there to watch.

This man

up to his last seconds has shown no

remorse, I want the opportunity to

look him in the eye and show him, I

am more than you now, you have not

got that power over me, I am

carrying on, I am surviving. I am

moving on. He hasn't beaten us, he

hasn't beaten me, he hasn't beaten

us, we are still here. We are going

to start a new chapter in our lives

now.

He's ruined our childhood

basically, our dreams, but he will

not ruin our lives.

And in a few minutes time,

we'll be speaking to the partners

and families of those targeted

by Barry Bennell.

In other news...

Oxfam says it will set up

a commission to investigate past

and present allegations

of exploitation by its staff

in a bid to rebuild trust.

Anyone who's been abused

by the Charity's employees has been

urged by the international head

of the Oxfam to tell their story.

Winnie Byanyima said every

complaint would be examined

by an independent commission,

and wrong-doers would

be held to account.

Police in Florida say the teenager

accused of killing 17 people

at a high school on Wednesday has

confessed to the shooting.

19-year-old Nikolas Cruz has

appeared in court charged with 17

counts of premeditated murder.

It's emerged the FBI had been

alerted to potential warning signs

of the former student's intentions

in the past.

New figures show a dramatic

reduction in the number of young

people buying their own

homes across the UK,

over the last 20 years.

The Institute for Fiscal Studies

found only a quarter

of those aged 25 to 34,

on average incomes,

were able to buy a property,

compared to 2 out of 3 in 1998.

A BBC investigation has revealed

a significant difference

between the highest earning male

and female consultants working

for the NHS in England.

Figures show that one in five

of the top 100 earners are women,

while on average full time men

earned £14,000 a year more

than their female counterparts

when including

bonuses and overtime.

Of the top 100 earning consultants

five are women despite more than a

third of the workforce being female.

The Department of Health

says it is committed

The Hollywood actress

Jennifer Aniston has announced

she is to separate from her husband

Justin Theroux after

two years of marriage.

The pair, who were married

in a secret ceremony

in Los Angeles in 2015,

reportedly met on the set

of comedy film Wanderlust.

They gave no reason for the split

but said it was a mutual decision

which had been "lovingly made"

at the end of last year.

That's a summary of the latest BBC

News - more at 10.30.

Thank you, we are going to hear more

from our guests in the next hour and

we will talk to the detect if

inspect who led the investigation

into Harry Bedell, her name is Sarah

Oliver and we will hear from her

shortly stop thank you for your

many, many, many messages for these

guys, we will read more.

Do get in touch with us

throughout the morning -

use the hashtag Victoria LIVE

and If you text, you will be charged

at the standard network rate.

Here's some sport now with Hugh.

Hello and good morning, Britain has

its first medal of the Olympics, a

bronze medal, thanks to Dominic

Parsons, in the skeleton, fourth

overnight, moved on to third after a

strong run, solid final outing would

have secured a bronze, he faltered

slightly, it was enough to make it

looked like he was going to finish

outside the medals. Those above him

were delighted, he thought his

chance had gone.

Because the five time world champion

Martins Dukurs from Latvia also made

a mistake on his final run -a huge

surprise - leaving Dom Parsons

to pick up a bronze and claim

Britain's first medal in Pyeongchang

and the first in men's

skeleton in 70 years.

Alex McLeish has agreed to become

Scotland manager for the second time

on a deal until 2020.

It's 11 years since he left the job

and the former Rangers

and Birmingham boss replaces Gordon

Strachan.

The Scottish FA have turned

to McLeish after failing to recruit

Northern Ireland manager Michael

O'Neill.

England bowler Liam Plunkett has

been ruled out of the rest

of their limited overs tour

of New Zealand with

a hamstring injury.

Plunkett aggravated a tear

that he suffered in the one day

series against Australia last month

when he returned to the side

for the T20 tri series match

against New Zealand on Tuesday.

England could still have a final

to play in the T20 tri-series

after Australia completed a record

run chase to beat New Zealand by 5

wickets in Auckland,

reaching their target of 244

with seven balls to spare.

If England win against

the Black Caps on Sunday

they could go through.

Leeds Rhinos are in Australia

playing Melbourne Storm

in the World Club Challenge.

Leeds qualified for the match after

winning the Super League Grand Final

whilst Melbourne won

the Australian NRL.

Rhinos can equal Wigan's four

World Club Challenge victories

with a win but they trail

by 18-4 at half-time.

That is all your support for now. --

your sport for now.

This morning: serious questions

about how paedophile football coach

Barry Bennell was allowed to operate

for so long at 2 football clubs,

abusing dozens of boys

seemingly undetected.

This programme has heard from senior

figures at both Man City

and Crewe Alexandra who say concerns

about his behaviour

was known at the time.

Our reporter Jim Reed and producer

Louis Lee Ray have been looking

into this over the last 15 months...

To his players and their parents

he was the star maker,

a talented coach, who could make

or break dreams of

playing professional.

Very much a Pied Piper that the one

that could open the door to this

magical world of football.

But it was all a front.

A pretext to abuse dozens

of children, hundreds of times

across two continents.

Eventually, he was a bully,

he was a power freak.

Barry Bennell had strong

links to two teams.

Manchester City and Crewe Alexandra.

There are now difficult questions

for the clubs involved,

were they warned and should more

have been done to

protect young players.

I mean inside, I was crying out

for somebody at that club

to say it's wrong, this.

Manchester, a place where

the industrial and domestic

landscape can never conceal

a romance with football,

that makes it the home of two

of the best supported

teams in Britain.

Greater Manchester, in the late 70s.

Barry Bennell ran youth teams

in the area with names

like Whitehill and Pegasus.

He was this Pied Piper character,

what young boy who aspired to be

a professional footballer wouldn't

look up to that character,

and respond to what they said

was necessary in order

to make that grade?

The youngsters are an investment

for the future and the competition

for the really talented is intense.

This was the era before

youth development

programmes, and academies.

Clubs like Manchester City

still recruited young players

from local feeder teams run

by amateur coaches.

Barry Bennell was seen

as one of the best.

He was one of the guys that

provided them with some

of their prestige premier players,

it was absolutely no

doubt that he was a part

of their system and set up,

whether he was paid financially

in a wage or by any other means.

This programme has now learned

of 11 players linked

to Manchester City who now say

they were abused by Bennell.

One victim has told us

abuse took place here,

at Maine Road itself.

In the late 70s, Platt Lane

was Manchester City's

main training ground.

It's now owned by a university.

Bennell was never an official

member of staff here,

but his teams played on these

pitches in club kit.

He carried a pass, and drove

a car in club colours.

No-one would ever doubt him

because these big professional

organisations like Manchester City

gave him the opportunity

to effectively have free

run of the premises,

and that's what convinced

everybody he was genuine.

But not everyone at

the club was convinced.

We have approximately 12

schoolboys each year.

Steve Fleet was in charge

of the Man City youth

team in the late 70s.

He didn't want to appear on camera,

but told us he came under pressure

from senior officials to hire

Bennell and give him

an official role at the club.

I put my foot down, I wasn't working

with a person like that.

That time Fleet told us

he won the argument.

It was after he left in 1980

that it appeared Bennell

became more involved.

I knew it was wrong,

but I just didn't have the stomach

or the words to put my hand up

and say anything.

Gary Cliff signed as a schoolboy

for Manchester City after playing

for one of Barry Bennell's teams.

He spoke exclusively

to this programme.

I didn't say anything,

no parents were saying anything.

No officials at the club

were saying anything.

Just didn't have the words.

From the age of 11-15 he told us

he was abused hundreds of times.

At Bennell's house in a village

in the Peak District, in his car,

and at the stadium at Maine Road.

Do you think the bosses

at Manchester City knew

what Bennell was doing?

Yes, absolutely,

they knew what he was.

And they allowed it

to continue, because he was

producing the results.

In a statement, Manchester City

offered its sympathy to those

affected, saying all victims

were entitled to expect full

protection from the kind

of harm they endured.

It has now started its own review

into its links with Barry Bennell.

A lot of the boys talked

about him abusing other

boys while at the home,

and getting involved with them,

and taking them to his

flat, things like that.

This programme can now reveal

another link between Bennell

and children at this time.

Taxal Edge in Derbyshire,

now converted into flats,

was once a residential

home for boys.

In the early 80s Barry Bennell

was employed here as a care worker.

Did he used to stay overnight?

He did.

Yeah.

At the home there's a sleep over

room next to the dormitory,

when he was on night duty

he was on his own staying

in the sleep over room.

We've now spoken to a different man,

one of Bennell's victims

who is convinced he was abused

in a flat on these grounds.