20/02/2018 Victoria Derbyshire

Hello, it's Tuesday,

it's nine o'clock.

I'm Victoria Derbyshire,

welcome to the programme.

Our top story today...

Britain won't be "plunged

into a Mad Max-style world borrowed

from dystopian fiction"

after it leaves the EU -

that's what the Brexit Secretary

David Davis will say in a speech

in around 45 minutes.

A clear message to EU leaders, you

can trust us, we will be on our best

behaviour after Brexit and we will

not try to undercut your businesses.

We'll bring you that speech live

as soon as it starts.

Also on the programme,

there are calls for the Government

to criminalise upskirting

as a sexual offence

after police data showed one

complainant was ten years old.

We'll speak to three

victims of upskirting -

and are keen to hear

from you if it's happened to you.

Plus working in your 70s...

We now have a better understanding

of the natural world than ever.

I've always played the bad girl, the

juvenile delinquent, the girl gone

wrong.

I think we are doing a picture.

But how many more of us will have

to work well into our 70s?

We'll find out as new research shows

by 2036 nearly a quarter

of the population will be over 65.

Hello.

Welcome to the programme,

we're live until 11am.

Throughout the programme we'll bring

you the latest breaking news

and developing stories.

Oxfam bosses are appearing in front

of MPs at around 10:30am after staff

used prostitutes in Haiti -

we'll bring you their evidence live.

And a little later we'll hear claims

that the problem of people

with severe mental health issues

being chased over debts

is at crisis levels.

If you've been in crisis care

and been chased up over debts,

do get in touch this morning.

Use the hashtag #VictoriaLive.

If you text, you will be charged

at the standard network rate.

Our top story today...

In the next hour the Brexit

Secretary David Davis will say

the UK will not be plunged

into what he describes

as a "Mad Max-style world",

after it leaves the European Union.

In a speech to business leaders

in Vienna, Mr Davis will also reject

the idea that Brexit will lead

to a "race to the bottom"

in workers' rights and

environmental standards.

It's the latest speech by senior

government ministers on Brexit.

Norman is at Westminster for us.

What point is he trying to make when

he talks about this Mad Max style

world we will not be plunged into?

The great fear of many EU leaders is

that after Brexit we will become a

Singapore of the channel, in other

words we will get rid of those

tiresome, tedious, burdensome EU

rules and regulations and that will

give British business a competitive

advantage. That is what the Mad Max

analogy is about. He is saying we

will not become the land of Mel

Gibson with burning cars and a

deserted wasteland desert where we

have made a bonfire of workers'

rights, environmental protections,

the 48-hour working week directive.

We will not become like that, we

will be just like you. But what is

interesting as we are just a couple

of days ahead of Mrs May getting her

top bigwigs in the Cabinet together

to finalise her approach to Brexit

and we are getting a sense of the

sort of deal they might be able to

agree around. What Mr Davies is

saying we do not appreciate your

rules and regulations, we would like

to stick to them tonne our own, but

they will not be that different to

yours. We will play by the same

rules of the game. We will not start

undercutting your businesses. In

effect he is saying to the EU you

can trust us, we will behave after

Brexit. The hope is that that will

allay the fears of EU leaders and so

they will be prepared to cut as that

crucial trade deal allowing a sac

sets -- allowing us access to the

single market.

Damian Green was

effectively Mrs May's deputy until

he was sacked from the Cabinet after

claims of inappropriate behaviour.

He has spoken about that for the

first time?

It is his first live

interview since his sacking, in

effect, for lying over those

allegations about inappropriate

behaviour and whether the police

were investigating pornography found

on his computer. Well, he pretty

much stuck to his line. He said he

did not think he had done anything

wrong, he did not think he was

guilty of inappropriate behaviour.

He put his dismissal down to a

mistake that he had issued a press

release in which he rightly said he

had not been informed that the

police were investigating. He was

asked, do you see yourself as a

victim? You said I will not whinge,

things happen, time to move on. But

you got a sense he was pretty

bruised by the whole experience.

I

have had political discussions over

a number of years which continued

afterwards. At no stage was there

any inappropriate behaviour. If I on

any occasion made her feel

uncomfortable, I am sorry.

Do you

think you are a victim in this, do

you think you have been treated

wrongly, that you should never have

been asked by the Prime Minister to

resign?

I am not going to whinge. I

think stuff happens, moves on.

But

if you maintain you did nothing

wrong, why are you not still in the

Government?

All ministers hold their

positions at the pleasure of the

Prime Minister and I broke the

ministerial code. As I say, I will

not whinge.

We have had some reaction from Keita

Mogby, who said she could tell

Damian Green did not regard his

behaviour as inappropriate and he

did not recognise that what he had

done was inappropriate. She is

clearly not that impressed with his

response this morning.

We will bring

David Davis' speech live at around

10am.

Julian is in the BBC

Newsroom with a summary

of the rest of the day's news.

Thank you and good morning,

Victoria.

Senior Oxfam executives will be

questioned by MPs later this

morning, following criticism over

the way it handled claims of sexual

misconduct by its staff in Haiti.

The International Development

Committee has convened an urgent

session to ask Oxfam

about what happened in 2011,

and the policies it now has in place

to prevent exploitation.

And we'll bring you coverage

of that committee hearing

on the programme, after 10:30am.

The bookmaker William Hill has

been fined £6.2 million

by the Gambling Commission.

The fine is for failing

to prevent money laundering.

The Commission said that "systemic"

failures by senior management

and ineffective social

responsibility processes meant that

ten customers were allowed

to deposit large sums of money

linked to criminal offences.

The commission warned William Hill

may have to pay more if more money

laundering comes to light.

Tim Miller, from the Gambling

Commission, says today's fine sends

a message to the whole gambling

industry.

We know that in Britain that are

around about two and a half million

people either problem gamblers or at

risk from developing a problem.

These are responsibilities that

gambling company should take

seriously. The decision today shows

that where they do not take those

responsibilities seriously they can

face swift and robust regulation.

Gambling is a fast changing area,

with technology making changes

happen all the time. Our decision

shows today that the rules work, it

simply does not comply they will

face stiff regulatory action from

us. Importantly the decision today

does not just send a clear message

to William Hill about what they need

to do, it sends a message to the

entire gambling industry.

The Home Secretary, Amber Rudd,

has confirmed that the government

is in talks with the US

about what to do with two men

from London suspected

of being members of the so-called

Islamic State.

Alexanda Kotey and El Shafee

Elsheikh are suspected

of being members of a gang

of British men who

murdered hostages.

They were detained in Syria last

month but there's no agreement yet

on where they will stand trial.

We're absolutely committed to making

sure that they are tried,

that the security of the country

always comes first.

These people should face the full

force of the law in terms

of the terrible things

that they have done.

I can't be drawn on the individual

circumstances of these two but we're

watching it carefully to make sure

they do face justice.

Campaigners say the government

should criminalise upskirting as a

sexual offence after police data

showed one complainant was ten years

old. The practice of covertly

photographing under the skirts of

women is currently not recognised as

a specific offence. Figures released

following a Freedom of information

request have found there have been

just 11 charges related to

upskirting since 2015. We will hear

from victims and campaigners on the

programme in the next ten minutes.

Women could be putting themselves

at risk by changing their diet

instead of seeking medical help

for a key symptom of ovarian cancer.

Persistent bloating is one

of the main warning signs.

But a new report by the Target

Ovarian Cancer charity

found that half of British women

would be more likely

to buy pro-biotic yoghurt

than seek their GP's advice.

Jeremy Corbyn is vowing to take

on the City of London

if he becomes Prime Minister,

saying finance should be

"the servant of industry,

not the masters of us all".

In a speech this afternoon

the Labour leader will call

for a "fundamental rethink"

of the finance sector

and how it is regulated.

He will also promise to give

the government new powers

to intervene to prevent "hostile

takeovers".

It's expected that many

of KFC's 900 UK outlets

will remain closed today -

because of a continuing

lack of chicken.

The fast food chain has blamed

teething problems after switching

to a new logistics deal with DHL

and Quick Service Logistics.

KFC is encouraging staff to take

holiday while outlets are closed.

They say salaried staff

will be paid as normal.

But the majority of

outlets are franchises -

which means many workers

could be hit hard.

A legal battle that could have far

reaching consequences

for the so-called "gig economy"

reaches the Supreme

Court this morning.

Pimlico Plumbers is appealing

a ruling that one of its employee's

is entitled to basic workers' rights

- even though he was

hired as a freelancer.

Lower courts previously ruled

the employee was entitled

the national minimum wage and paid

holiday, although he is

technically self-employed.

The singer and X Factor judge

Cheryl Cole is opening

a new centre in her name later

today, aimed at helping

disadvantaged young people

in her hometown of Newcastle.

The singer launched a fundraising

campaign in 2015 to get

the centre established.

It's hoped the £2 million facility

will help 5,000 North East

youngsters in the next three years.

It aims to build on The Prince's

Trust's work in the region,

with young people who have struggled

with drugs, mental health

issues, and unemployment.

That's a summary of the latest BBC

News - more at 9:30am.

Thank you very much. We will talk

about upskirting in the next few

minutes. Upskirting is when someone

takes a photo of you up your skirt

without your permission. John on

Facebook says upskirted as can be

charged under the law of outraging

public decency, and indictable

common-law offence punishable by a

limited prison and/ or an unlimited

fine. Cheryl on Facebook said that

considering I have read one of the

victims was ten years old, this

story needs covering. We will speak

to these women in the next few

minutes, it happened to them. We

will also speak to a lawyer who has

acted on behalf of of a man who took

photos up women's skirts. He was a

City worker. Mark on Facebook says

of course upskirting should be a

criminal offence, it is an invasion

of your dignity to sexual

gratification. Campaigners want

there to be a fresh new law

specifically targeting upskirters,

others say we have legislation to

cover this. If it has happened to

you, we will feed it into our

conversation in the next few

minutes. Send me a message on

Twitter, use the

hashtag. Olly Foster is here with

the sport, the FA Cup is alive and

well, what about Wigan?

I was there

yesterday, wondering whether league

won the Wigan could upset Manchester

city. It is a very famous scoreline.

When Wigan were in the Premier

League, they beat City in the 2013

cup final, that was 1-0, so was the

score last night. It really hinged

on this at the end of the first

half, a horrible tackle from Fabian

Delph. Anthony Taylor seemed to get

out is yellow, Paul Cook was

brandishing an imaginary card, which

always winds of the opposition.

Delph was sent off, Pep Guardiola

furious. He went after Cook at

half-time. He also confronted the

referee. Ten men City held on until

the last ten minutes. That is Will

Grigg. He has a very famous chant

after him, Will Grigg's on fire. He

was last night. Seven FA Cup goals

for him. At the full-time whistle it

got pretty ugly, there was a pitch

invasion. Sergio Aguero almost came

to blows with a Wigan fan. A couple

of thousand on the pitch. I was on

the pitch trying to do my job. The

City fans and there was a lot of

police as well. Around 5000 City

fans travelled to Wigan. They threw

advertising hoardings at the police.

There will be a lot of fallout but

the quadruple quest is over for

Manchester City. Here is their

manager.

We played the performance with our

hearts, it is the same intention. I

judge my players for the intention,

not the result. The intention was

always good during the season, today

as well. But the fact is we are out

of the FA Cup.

City will have to

regroup. They have five days. The

League Cup final is coming up next

for them to see if they can keep the

trouble alive. They have Arsenal on

Sunday at Wembley. The red Winter

Olympics day 11, everybody is

keeping everything crossed for Elise

Christie?

day 11, Elise Christie

fell in the 500 metre short

track final last week, and the 1500

metres semifinal, disqualified

anyway.

She has had x-rays after

that heavy crash last time, here she

is, back on the ice. 1000 metre heat

in the next hour she has soft tissue

damage after that heavy fall, in the

1500 metres. Decision will be made

very soon whether or not she can

compete or not. This is Elise

Christie, disqualified three times

four years ago at the Winter

Olympics in Sochi so this is the

last chance alone, getting

redemption, to save her Olympic

career, not just this games, so no

pressure(!) really good day for

Britain's curlers, where would we be

without a curling update, 8-6

victory over Japan. Up to third in

the standings, one match to play for

them now, and the top four

qualifier, Eve Muirhead and the gang

have got everything done. England

have thrashed Norway 10-3, they must

win their final match against the

USA, that will guarantee them a

semifinal spot. BBC Sport website

will keep you right up to date. I

will be back with the headlines in

the next 20 minutes.

It's one of the ultimate invasions

of privacy, upskirting,

covertly taking photos under

the skirts of women

without their permission.

But it isn't a specific crime

in England and Wales.

Instead police forces charge alleged

upskirters with other

offences like voyeurism.

Now new figures released today under

a Freedom of Information request

show there have only been 11 charges

relating to upskirting since 2015,

with one victim being

just 10 years old.

So it is time to make it

an offocial sexual offence

with appropriate punishments?

Let's talk now to three people

who've experienced this and a lawyer

who has acted on behalf of men

accused of upskirting.

Gina Martin

was at a music festival

last year when someone took

a photo up her skirt,

police dropped her case.

Liv Moore

was upskirted

on the Tube last year.

And

Rhona Hall

was in a bar

when the bar owner's

son took a photograph

of her under her clothing.

Greg Stewart

is a lawyer who's acted

on behalf on perpetrators

Thank you very much for coming on

the programme, your reaction, first

of all, that a girl as young as ten

years old has experienced this.

It

is just disgusting, takes it to a

completely different level, where

children are being targeted, and it

feels like maybe it has had to get

to this level in order to get the

attention it needs and for people to

take it seriously.

I completely

agree, shocking that a child as

young as ten can be a victim of

someone like this but it happens to

people of all ages and that is what

is shocking.

These figures which

show there have been 78 cases in the

last three years, do you think that

reflects the accurate picture?

Not

at all, that is the tip of the

iceberg, since I started this

campaign, I have reams and reams of

names of women, and children have

come forward as young as 13, have

come forward, told me about it,

those figures are far lower than the

real number.

Your campaign began

because it happened to you at a

music festival, remind the audience

what happened.

I was at a festival,

two men, whose advances I had pretty

much rejected multiple times, they

took pictures and send them round to

the crowd around me. I handed them

the picture, and over to police and

my case was dropped almost

immediately.

How did you know they

had done it?

I saw it on their

phone, I grabbed the phone and rang,

and they followed me to the police.

-- grabbed the phone and ran. I

found it was a grey area in legal

terms.

How did the police handle it?

Kind and lovely but said there was

not much they could do, because I

was wearing underwear, so it seemed

there was confusion around

legislation and what they could do

effectively. Because you are wearing

underwear? Yeah, I think basically,

they were trying to work out what

steps they could take but they were

not quite sure, that is what

happened.

That is interesting, what

about your own story?

I was at

university in Hull, night out with

my friends in a bar.

And the owner's

son was responsible for taking

photos graphs for the website, he

had a camera on him. Always taking

photos. I was talking to my friends,

I felt like somebody had touched me

under my skirt, I turned around

quickly and saw him there with the

camera, and a photograph of my rear

end and he was laughing, and he

showed all my friends.

So he was

blatant!

He was completely like,

this is normal, look what I have

managed to do. And it was... I

remember seeing the photograph and

thinking, this is the most

disgusting photo anyone could ever

have taken of that part of me, it

showed every imperfection and dimple

that I hated about myself, and you

are quite self-conscious at

university anyway, about your

appearance. And I screamed at him to

delete it and he laughed and ran

away and went behind the bar and

carried on serving. I chased him

behind the bar because I was so

worried that other people would see

the photograph, that was what was

terrifyingly, I shouted across the

bar at him and people were looking

at me like, what is this crazy lady

doing. His dad said something to

him, said, what is going on? Sort

this out. He sheepishly came over

and said, OK, I will delete it, he

claimed to have deleted it, I asked

to check, to check that it had gone.

He was like, it is gone. That was

just the end of it. And then a

friend said, he does that most

nights, it is his thing, it takes

photographs up girls skirts and you

are not the first and this is what

he does.

I was at a family party,

with my parents, and I was on the

tube, I just sat down, and a man

across from me started shouting at

the man sitting next to him saying,

I have seen what you have done, it

is disgusting, you have been taking

a picture up that girl's skirt. He

turned to me and said, he has just

been taking pictures up your skirt.

It tends to my parents and said the

same thing. -- turned to my parents.

I was the million 80, I froze, and

fortunately at that moment, we

pulled up at the next stop and I got

off the tube and burst into tears.

It was made worse by the fact that I

was with my parents, which kind of

added to the human liaise and of it.

Nobody likes to be sexually

objectified by particularly not in

front of your parents. --

humiliation.

Greg is a lawyer, he

has acted on behalf of an upskirter.

Some messages, it should be a

criminal offence, it is disgusting,

taking the version onto the street,

somebody has developed a mindset

where they are prepared to violate

somebody in a public place. The next

step might be a physical sexual

assault or a rape, it needs to be

dealt with ruthlessly, with entry on

the sex offenders register. An

boyfriend came up behind one viewer,

she was mortified when he pulled her

dress right over her head.

Upskirting, all the most pressing

stories covered by your programme,

Victoria, clearly this is a

sarcastic message. Is it a big deal?

It is incredibly important to be

protected just like the women in

Scotland are, it is assault, these

people who do this could go on to do

worse things but this in itself is

terrible.

Greg, Jena mentioned what

happens in Scotland, they have the

2009 sexual offences act. -- Gina.

Under which this kind of offence is

prosecuted. Could we do that in

England and Wales?

I have looked at

Scottish law, I am not an expert,

but it looks to me very similar to

our own law on voyeurism, which we

already have here. As a member of

the committee, as a defence

tactician with rational experience

of dealing with a man accused of

this, and hearing those accounts, it

is quite clear why there is a need

for a public debate, of

criminalisation of this sort of

behaviour.

This behaviour is

criminalised but comes under

voyeurism, all, outraging public

decency, the question is, do we need

a fresh new law which specifically

uses the term upskirting all words

along the lines of, covert

photographing under a woman's

clothing.

I don't like the word

upskirting because it trivialises

the behaviour which can take many

forms and can be quite minor, if

done once in isolation, but very

serious if done repeatedly, clearly

against someone's wishes. Often done

over a long period of time, my

experience is that it can become

addictive.

I agree that the law at

the moment is very un-helpful to

prosecuting authorities. You can

prosecute under outraging public

decency, common law offence going

back hundreds of years, that means

if you do something lewd, obscene or

disgusting, which would outrage

public decency.

That felt that

category. You can be prosecuted. One

of the difficulties with that law is

for historical reasons, because it

is a public offence, it needs to be

capable of is being seen by more

than one person so you need evidence

that at least two people sought the

act.

The photograph in itself is not

enough evidence.

You have two proved

that the act was seen in public by

more than one person. I know all

about this now, yeah.

The victim of this is unaware it is

happening. The law recognises it

that the public might be upset

watching this happen but does not

recognise it as a crime to the

victim, that is the grey area.

You

acted on behalf of a man who did

this.

Describe the circumstances of

what he was doing. He was accused of

outraging public decency, for

reasons just discussed, I advised...

What had he been doing?

He started

off following women on escalators,

usually in train stations, when he

was commuting to and from his work.

He was a professional guide, started

taking photographs of women.

Strangers, yes, without consent,

standing behind them on escalators,

and...

Why was he doing it?

He had

personal relationship issues at the

time, I had to mitigate for him,

so... He pleaded guilty, and I

was... My role was to defend him, he

had issues, we had a psychiatric

report explaining this person who

otherwise had never troubled the

police or other women with any

inappropriate behaviour, suddenly

started taking photographs of them.

Clearly, your job was to mitigate.

Of course, yeah, and everybody

should have a fair trial but we need

to get to a point now where we are

prosecuting someone with an

inappropriate offence. Right now,

lawyers are doing what they should

do, it has to rely on too many

specifics, everybody needs to be

captured, regardless of where you

are.

Matthew says, how on earth is

upskirting not an offence in the

modern-day, horrible experiences

being relayed on your programme this

morning, goes without saying, the

law needs to change urgently.

Michelle says, the pictures obtained

from upskirting our not sexual, it

is about the power for these nasty

men, would you agree with that?

No,

I don't think so, I think they do

get sexual gratification from taking

those pictures, and I think that

although the picture is the end

result, the process is what these

people enjoy. And that is wrong and

it is you million waiting and quite

disgusting.

Is it a problem with

celebrity culture, there are

professional photographers who will

take photographs of female

celebrities getting in and out of

cars, going up steps, etc, under

their skirts.

100%, the media

normalises it, completely.

There is

even a scene in Grease, he is on the

bleachers and looking underneath two

girls skirts and they see him and

walk away and say, you are a sick

man.

It is already... That is what

we need to get away from. It is not

OK. Even if it is not sexual

ratification, it is harassment,

humiliating, we need to stop

normalising these things as lads

being lads because it is not.

The

women ever do it?

Yes, this sounds

funny but upkilting is a problem in

Scotland, truly is.

It is not a

gendered issue, it is women that are

disproportionally the victim, but it

is true that uptrousering happens

and incidences of people taking

photos up and down men's shirts and

that is just as bad.

Jimmy says I was upskirted when I

wore a kilt. That was that a

Scotland versus England rugby game.

He does not say whether a man or a

woman took the photo.

Thank you all for joining us today.

I am usually brilliant at

remembering names, it was just your

surname, Liv! If it has happened to

you, get in touch with the details

on screen.

Still to come...

David Davis will be telling European

leaders Britain is not

in a "race to the bottom."

We'll have that speech live for you.

It is due at around 10am, whenever

it starts, you will hear at live.

Plus how likely is it we will all be

working well into our 70s? We will

hear that new research shows that by

2026 a quarter of the population

will be over 65.

Time for the latest

news - here's Julian.

In a speech later this morning the

Brexit Secretary David Davies said

he will not be plunged into what he

called a Mad Max style world when it

leaves the European Union. Speaking

to business leaders in Vienna Mr

Davies will reject the idea that

Brexit will lead to a race to the

bottom and workers' rights and

environmental standings. It is the

latest speech by senior government

ministers on Brexit.

Former first Secretary of State

Damian Green maintains he did not

behave inappropriately when he

reportedly texted a younger woman.

Mr Green was sacked from the Cabinet

after an inquiry looks into

allegations made by Kate Maltby.

Speaking to the BBC this morning,

the BBC said he felt compelled to

ask Miss Maltby for a drink after

seeing her pictured in a corset in a

newspaper. He has repeated his

apology but claimed he did not do

anything inappropriate. Kate Maltby

says Mr Green's refusal to accept he

had acted inappropriately was the

problem.

Senior Oxfam executives will be

questioned by MPs later this

morning, following criticism over

the way it handled claims of sexual

misconduct by its staff in Haiti.

The International Development

Committee has convened an urgent

session to ask Oxfam

about what happened in 2011,

and the policies it now has in place

to prevent exploitation.

The bookmaker William Hill has

been fined £6.2 million

by the Gambling Commission.

The fine is for failing

to prevent money laundering.

The Commission said that "systemic"

failures by senior management

and ineffective social

responsibility processes meant that

ten customers were allowed

to deposit large sums of money

linked to criminal offences.

The commission warned William Hill

may have to pay more if more money

laundering comes to light.

It's expected that many

of KFC's 900 UK outlets

will remain closed today -

because of a continuing

lack of chicken.

The fast food chain has blamed

teething problems after switching

to a new logistics deal with DHL

and Quick Service Logistics.

KFC is encouraging staff to take

holiday while outlets are closed.

They say salaried staff

will be paid as normal.

But the majority of

outlets are franchises -

which means many workers

could be hit hard.

That is the summary of the latest

news. I think we will have since

bought, will we? No, we will go back

to Victoria first.

We can go to sport right now if you

like! But let me read Bees, I have

some really interesting messages

about this issue of upskirting. Some

of you are split on whether or not

this is serious. Martin says this is

a total invasion of privacy and

should absolutely be criminalised,

it is assault, effectively. It is

criminalised, you can be prosecuted

under voyeurism legislation in

England and Wales or outraging

public decency. The debate today is

about whether there should be a

specific offence. Reminds me a bit

of a campaign to get specific

legislation on stalking. Andy says I

do not think upskirting is a serious

issue. Another person says

upskirting should only be a criminal

offence if nudity is involved, like

no knickers on. Another person said

he was upskirted when he wore a

kilt. If it has happened to you, let

me know, we will talk to you

programme. Contact details on

screen.

Here's some sport now with Olly.

Hello again. The quadruple is over

for Manchester City. They have been

knocked out of the FA Cup by League

1 Wigan, the same team that beat

them on the 2013 final. This

season's top scorer in the cup, will

Grigg, scored the only goal of the

game in the 79th minute.

They will play Southampton in the

quarterfinals. Great Britain's

curlers both won in their latest

round-robin. The women are up to

third in the standings, looking good

for the semifinal. The men beat

Norway to keep their hopes alive. We

will know very shortly if...

(INAUDIBLE)

She fell in the 500 metre final and

the 1500 semifinals.

British half pipes key role in

Cheshire finish seventh in her

final, only posting one clear run.

She fell on the second and third

attempts. Canadian Cassie Sharp won

gold. I will hopefully be back after

10am looking this... Ahead to see if

Elise Christie can stay on her feet.

Thank you very much.

MPs are due to question senior Oxfam

executives about the sexual

misconduct of some of the charity's

former staff in Haiti.

At around 10:30 this morning they'll

be asked what happened

after the earthquake in 2010,

about claims aid workers used

prostitutes and the policies in

place now to prevent exploitation.

We'll bring it to you

live when it happens.

Prime Minister Theresa May

yesterday described

the behaviour as "horrific".

Oxfam denied a cover-up.

Its handling of the scandal

is being investigated by the Charity

Commission.

Later on this morning senior execs

from Save the Children will be

questioned after the husband

of murdered MP Jo Cox, Brendan Cox,

admitted to inappropriate

behaviour while working

for the charity.

Let's speak to Toby Porter,

who has worked at both Oxfam

and more recently Save the Children.

Shaista Aziz is a journalist

and former aid worker.

And Peter Gallo used to be

an internal investigator at the UN.

A recent report claimed the United

Nations has allowed sexual

harassment and assault to flourish

in its offices around the world.

With accusers ignored and

perpetrators free to act with

impunity. Thank you all for talking

to us. Toby, first, you worked at

both Oxfam and more recently Save

the Children. The Prime Minister

described what happened at Oxfam as

horrific, is that the right

terminology?

Yes, it is. I think it

is the terminology Oxfam themselves

are using.

How do you think this happened?

I

think it was a system failure, that

is why I think they are accountable

as an organisation. There was more

than enough is known about the

individuals involved that they

should not have been an Haiti in the

first place. I think that is why

their systems are under the

spotlight.

What part of the system

failed if people knew what these...?

They were being rehired. That they

were being rehired when there had

been reported problems from female

colleagues about how they felt but

also, indirectly, about their

behaviour in previous missions. They

simply should not have been hired.

What do you think about the way

Oxfam has handled this?

I think it

has been very difficult for them. I

think they would be the first to say

there were lessons about how they

have communicated that needs to be

added. I would certainly say that we

need Oxfam, it is a wonderful

charity, 99.9% of its staff are

committed, ethical, very correct

people and we need to be careful

that we can help Oxfam learn

lessons, but without being drawn

into wider agendas that may want to

see a greatly weakened Oxfam and

other charities in the sector in the

future.

Specifically, what do you

mean by that wider agenda?

The

anti-aid agenda. I do not think that

is why these allegations came out, I

do not think it should be a figleaf

to hide behind, but when I see how

some of the media moved on this time

last week, I think you could see

wider agendas that have drawn that

debate.

Do you accept they would not

have been able to capitalise for

their wider agenda if Oxfam aid

workers had not been exploiting

vulnerable people in an earthquake

zone?

Absolutely, the allegations

are indefensible.

Shaista, you spent

more than 15 years as an aid worker

for a number of organisations,

including Oxfam. You went to Haiti,

Syria, Lebanon, Bangladesh, etc etc.

Give an example of the day-to-day

culture?

I agree with Toby about the

systemic failures but we need to

look at cultures inside humanitarian

organisations, particularly in

emergency settings. You get a

situation where thousands of people

are pouring into countries where

there is an emergency, when there

has been an earthquake, tsunami,

Floyd etc. There is generally quite

a lot of chaos and then all of these

foreigners, for want of a better

word, are pouring into the country

and it disrupts the dynamics on the

ground in terms of it is quite hard

to keep track of who is there and

why. There are charitable

organisations, NGOs, renowned

institutions like Oxfam on the

ground, then there are others you

cannot really verify. Within this

culture, what you get is lots of

men, predominantly white, western

men, pouring into environments where

there is chaos, and with that

beckons heavy drinking -- that comes

heavy drinking, issues of people

wanting to buy six sometimes from

underage women and girls. This is

definitely mixed. -- people wanting

to buy sex. It is difficult for

anybody who has worked in the sector

to deny this happens.

The way you

describe it, Shaista, you make it

sound almost normal?

It is not

normal, absolutely not, but I

believe that for a very long time it

has been passed off as normal,

passed off as something that happens

in the context of emergencies. In

the past week there has been a lot

of commentary, there has been almost

an attempt, a very defensive

response from lots of aid workers in

relation to the accusations coming

out. Some commentators have said

things like people need to let off

steam. Letting off steam is one

thing, these allegations of

potentially... Rape and other

serious sexual abuse taking place is

absolutely not letting off steam.

But as I said I think there is a

normalisation around this, that is

what is very, very problematic. The

whole thing about some aid workers

saying of people start speaking up

openly about what they had seen and

what has gone on that it will

weaponised the agenda in terms of

the potential of aid organisations

getting less money etc, I think it

is appalling, I think we can

conflate these issues. There is an

attempt by our current government to

suggest that the eight sector needs

reforming but I think the public is

horrified by what they have heard

and I think it is only right that

people want full transparency. We

need to make sure that...

Sorry, I

must apologise. I would like to

bring in Peter, who used to be an

internal investigator at the UN. The

UN has had its own problems, as we

know. In terms of your investigating

big aid organisations for the UN,

what did you learn about their

procedures?

The UN does not

investigate big aid organisations,

this is part of the problem. When

there is an in... Allegation, as

there was an Haiti, it is left to

the organisation to investigate

because the UN will say they have no

jurisdiction. There was one

particularly well-known lady who is

now a very prominent campaigner in

this field, she was raped ... She

could identify the Raiders but

because she was not a UN staff

member the UN tried to have nothing

to do with it initially, wash their

hands and said it was not our

problem. Any environments are

Shaista is describing that means

that the perpetrators have full

impunity.

Without going into

specific details of any cases you

may have come across, Shaista has

described the culture from her point

of view, why do you say sometimes a

minority of aid workers get

themselves involved in this

behaviour?

It is a psychological, I

think a question that I am not

qualified to answer. All I can tell

you is it happens. It would be

grossly irresponsible to suggest

this was the majority, it is

certainly not. We are talking about

a tiny minority, or at least a

minority, but bringing the rest of

the industry into disrepute.

Toby, you hired one of the people

eventually moved on by Oxfam after

the allegations in Haiti. How did

that happen?

I would Oxfam in 1995

in Kenya, working zucchini into

South Sudan. One of the people

applied for a job. -- working

through Kenya into South Sudan. We

had no complaints over two years, my

wife and I stayed with his wife. I

worked with him for two years, I saw

him six years later in India. I have

not seen him since. He should not

work again, I am absolutely

disgusted and appalled.

It happened

because nobody flagged any

complaints around him?

I think one

of the details that came out about

Oxfam which was the most

surprisingly is that there was a

note on this gentleman's file that

he should not be allowed to stay in

mixed gender Stav houses. I read

this in the Times report. -- mixed

gender Stav houses. The bigger

question was what was he doing being

allowed on the plane at all, if you

like.

Thank you very much, all of you,

very interesting, thank you for your

time.

Thank you for your comments on

upskirting, a term that some of you

do not like. Some of you think it

represents what we are talking

about, which is people taking

photographs up women's clothing,

occasionally men's clothing. Without

their permission, and we have spoken

with three women who

it as

with three women who

it as horrible,

with three women who

it as horrible, humiliating

with three women who

it as horrible, humiliating and

with three women who

it as horrible, humiliating and an

with three women who

it as horrible, humiliating and an

absolute invasion of privacy. And

that is why they believe there

should be a specific criminal

offence against this behaviour any

England and Wales, I was dancing on

a table, says Becky, at a place that

encourages such, when a man lifted

my skirt and showed what was

underneath to the entire bar, number

of men who think it is OK is

shocking, half of them think they

can touch the dance as well. Richard

says, I'm glad your programme is

shining a light on these issues.

There are men in clear daily denial

that they or any other men are doing

anything wrong. One tweet says, I'm

not surprised that #upskirting is

happening after the latest news on

charities, MPs, football coaches, it

is no wonder, the nation seems to be

becoming a nation of the sexually

depraved, a lot of this can be

blamed on pornography and the

effects of it.

It

is a degrading disgusting act,

purely for the sexual gratification

of men and it should be banned

countrywide. Hopefully the upcoming

pawn ban will include acts to ban

it. This makes me feel threatened

just thinking about it, it is

clearly a sexual assault and should

be treated as such. Thank you for

those, tell a sure own experiences,

we will talk with you more about it

later. We would like to talk to you

on air if it has happened to you.

Campaigners calling for improved

toilet facilities for disabled

people are taking their fight

to Downing Street today.

They want to see more loos

where disabled children

and adults can be changed

by their parents and carers.

This requires an adult

changing bed and a hoist,

which aren't included

in most disabled toilets.

In fact some hospitals

don't even have them.

At the moment there are just over

a thousand of these particular type

of loos right across the UK.

Compare this to the more than 2

and a half thousand toilets

in Wembley Stadium alone.

Last year the paralympian

Anne-Wafula Strike made a special

film for us looking at the lack

of facilities:

When I first went to university, I

would avoid drinking as much as I

could because if I needed the

toilet, I would have to go home and

leave the night out early, because I

would need a hoist and a plinth to

get changed on, and they were not

there.

How has that changed for you

now?

Two years next month, I had a

catheter fitted, which means I don't

have to get out of my chair to go to

the toilet. So I can go to the

toilet wherever I want, so it is

incredible. I am so much healthier,

because, not just day-to-day, but

are used to, at University, I would

do stuff like, I would rehydrate

myself.

You had an operation without

any medical need.

No medical need, I

was not incontinent. It was more

of... My urologist called it

socially incontinent, basically it

meant that I was incontinent when I

was out because I could not go to

the toilet because there was not the

facility there. It is incredible and

life changing and I would not change

it for the world. But I kind of wish

I had not had to in the first place.

That was last year.

Anne Wafula-Strike

is here along

with

Lorna Fillingham

who started this campaign.

Lorna's seven-year-old daughter

Emily May has learning disabilities

and cannot go to the toilet herself.

What was the moment with your

daughter where you thought, we have

had enough, things have got to

change?

It was three years ago, I

was trying to change her on a baby

change toilet facility and I

realised, this is something I would

not be able to do in the long-term,

she is nearly eight years old, I am

still struggling with baby change

facilities. She is getting far too

big.

It is not practical for us in

the long-term. What you think the

fact that there are so few disabled

toilets, where there is proper

facility for changing someone if

they have had an accident.

Towns and

cities that do not have a single

one, it is disgraceful, it impacts

us everywhere we go, like you

mentioned previously, when my

daughter goes to outpatient

appointments, no changing

facilities.

In terms of the

campaign, where are you up to?

I

think it is really interesting,

because, we have reached a point

where we think lawmakers should do

something. Policy and law affects

people's lives. It is about giving

value and dignity to all human

beings. It is really frustrating

that up to this moment, people with

disabilities are still having to

struggle, it is like we are having

to justify existence, and asking for

such facilities. I think it is wrong

that a society that we live in now,

the 21st-century, we are seeing

children changed on toilet floors,

there is no dignity there. Lawmakers

will now listen to the cries of

people.

You want them to compel

chains and organisations, shopping

centres, to have these kind of

changing place toilets.

It would be

very good if they made it mandatory.

Because it will actually empower

families with disabled people and

disabled peoples themselves to mix

in the community. If it is not

mandatory, many are giving excuses,

saying it is expensive. My question

is, if you are going to refurbish a

shopping centre, spending many

thousands, you can put aside £20,000

and install this kind of toilet.

Do

you think people see a disabled

toilet and think, that is a disabled

toilet, that is it.

I worked as a

nurse for 20 years and did not

realise there were facilities in

there to enable every disabled

person to access the toilet. So it

is not in the public conscious at

all at the moment that they are not

fit for purpose for a large amount

of the disabled population.

Just

explain why sometimes, as a carer of

a child with learning and physical

disabilities, you need to change

them in the middle of a shopping

trip or going to the theatre.

You

cannot plan... I can change my

daughter before we go out, but if

she has an accident, we have all

been there with toddlers and babies,

you have had a nappy that has not

been contained, you cannot leave

them in a soiled nappy while you go

to find somewhere else to go. People

are having to make do, disabled

people being changed in the back of

cars and on floors, disabled adults

having to sit in soiled pants for

prolonged periods of time and that

is causing people physical harm as

well as emotional harm, not just the

disabled person, the carers as well.

Back injuries for carers is through

the roof. If you are physically

lifting somebody, that can

contribute to that. Sitting in your

own faeces for a certain amount of

time can contribute. It is really

damaging to people.

And people don't

go out, because they cannot risk in

case there is an accident, your

world becomes smaller.

Your world

becomes smaller and what happens

when your world becomes smaller, you

are isolated, you suffer from

depression, you are excluded from

the outside world. I think that is

what... That is why we are calling

lawmakers to consider these people

when it comes to... This is what I

always say, when you have a

disability, that does not warrant,

it is not a qualification for you to

be excluded from everyday life. To

be able to have a place where you

can enjoy with your family, I think

that is part of being a human being.

Thank you both, thank you very much,

we will see what happens.

Latest news and sport and weather in

just a moment, before that, Jennifer

Lawrence has announced that she is

quitting acting for a year so that

she can focus on campaigning for a

US nonprofit organisation. Here's a

reminder of times the Oscar-winning

actor has spoken out about the

causes she believes in.

Regardless of where our politics

fall, at the grassroots, the

American people don't deserve to pay

taxes to a system that is rigged

against

Jennifer Lawrence, who has announced

that she is quitting acting for

eight.

News and sport in a second, before

that, all of the weather, near is

Matt -- here is

Matt.

Grey conditions towards the east of

England, here in North Yorkshire,

the cloud responsible shows up

nicely on the satellite imagery,

pushing out into the North Sea,

allowing the clear sky to push in

from the Atlantic. Plenty of

sunshine to take you through the

morning. Cloudy outbreaks of rain

coming through the day in that

northerly breeze, some cloud will

drift inland, as we go into the

afternoon. The vast majority stick

with the sunshine, best in the north

and the West, temperatures may not

hit 14 degrees but ten to 12, 13

Celsius, very good for this time of

year. Coming from the North today,

coming around an area of low

pressure, not coming directly from

anywhere particularly cold. -- high

pressure. Something chilly over the

coming days, tonight, driving the

cloud from eastern areas, in across

the Midlands, it is here when

temperatures will stay above

freezing overnight. Blue, sky most

likely to stay clear is, frost into

Wednesday morning. A lovely sunny

day, early morning mist and fog will

clear, parts of Wales, the Midlands,

more cloud around compared with

today, some sunny breaks possible,

brightness in eastern coastal

counties. Temperatures relative to

today and indeed yesterday, down

just a little bit, very few people

getting above eight or 9 degrees.

Into Thursday, frost around, dry

day, breeze to the West, cloud

thickening to produce the odd shower

in parts of Northern Ireland, most

will stay dry. By this stage, losing

the temperature in Norwich, for

degrees. Wind coming from an

easterly direction, strengthening

through Friday and Saturday, just

notice, on the capital city

forecast, the wind is picking up,

most will be dry, because

high-pressure is extending from

Scandinavia, wind coming around

clockwise, coming across cold air

from Russia, northern parts of

Europe, that will be dragged our

way. Cold weekend, high-pressure,

dry one, fairly sunny. With

overnight frost. Just as spring is

kicking into gear, winter bike 's

back in a big way. Some will see

snow, but also, noticing the chill,

daytime temperatures, temperatures

stay below freezing by day, some of

that cold air will be pushing

towards us as well, we will keep you

updated.

Hello, it's Tuesday, it's ten

o'clock, I'm Victoria Derbyshire.

Our top story today... The Brexit

Secretary David Davis is to reassure

EU leaders that the UK won't seek a

Mad Max style of deregulated economy

after leaving the European Union.

The clear message to the EU leaders,

you can trust us, we will behave

after Brexit and won't undercut your

businesses.

Mr Davies' speech is

expected in the next hour, we will

bring it to live.

And - is working into your 70s

becoming the new normal?

We now have a better understanding

of the natural world than ever.

I've

always played the bad girl, the

juvenile delinquent, the girl gone

wrong.

I think we are giving a

picture.

New research shows that

by 2036, a quarter of

the population will be over 65.

Does this mean we'll all be

putting off retirement

and working a little longer?

And MPs are to question senior Oxfam

executives this morning about

accusations of sexual misconduct. We

will bring you that live in around

half an hour.

Here's Julian in the BBC Newsroom

with a summary of today's news.

In a speech this morning

the Brexit Secretary David Davis

will say the UK will not be plunged

into what he describes

as a "Mad Max-style world" after it

leaves the European Union.

In a speech to business leaders

in Vienna, Mr Davis will also reject

the idea that Brexit will lead

to a "race to the bottom"

in workers' rights and

environmental standards.

It's the latest speech by senior

government ministers on Brexit.

Former first Secretary

of State Damian Green maintains

he did not behave inappropriately

when he reportedly

texted a younger woman.

Mr Green was sacked from the Cabinet

after an inquiry looked

into allegations made by Kate

Maltby.

Speaking to the BBC this morning,

the BBC said he felt compelled

to ask Miss Maltby for a drink

after seeing her pictured

in a corset in a newspaper.

-- speaking to the BBC this morning,

the MPs said.

He has repeated his apology

but claimed he did not do

anything inappropriate.

Kate Maltby says Mr Green's refusal

to accept he had acted

inappropriately was the problem.

Mr Green has spoken to Radio 4.

I

have had political discussions over

a number of years which continued

afterwards, at no stage was there

any inappropriate behaviour. If I on

any occasion made her feel

uncomfortable, I am sorry about

that.

Senior Oxfam executives will be

questioned by MPs later this

morning, following criticism over

the way it handled claims of sexual

misconduct by its staff in Haiti.

The International Development

Committee has convened an urgent

session to ask Oxfam

about what happened in 2011,

and the policies it now has in place

to prevent exploitation.

And we'll bring you coverage

of that committee hearing

on the programme, after 10:30am.

The bookmaker William Hill has

been fined £6.2 million

by the Gambling Commission.

The fine is for failing

to prevent money laundering.

The Commission said that "systemic"

failures by senior management

and ineffective social

responsibility processes meant that

ten customers were allowed

to deposit large sums of money

linked to criminal offences.

The commission warned William Hill

may have to pay more if more money

laundering comes to light.

The Home Secretary, Amber Rudd,

has confirmed that the government

is in talks with the US

about what to do with two men

from London suspected

of being members of the so-called

Islamic State.

Alexanda Kotey and El Shafee

Elsheikh are suspected

of being members of a gang

of British men who

murdered hostages.

They were detained in Syria last

month but there's no agreement yet

on where they will stand trial.

We're absolutely committed to making

sure that they are tried,

that the security of the country

always comes first.

These people should face the full

force of the law in terms

of the terrible things

that they have done.

I can't be drawn on the individual

circumstances of these two but we're

watching it carefully to make sure

they do face justice.

Campaigners say the Government

should criminalise upskirting is a

sexual offence after police data

showed one complainant was ten years

old. The practice of covertly

photographing under the skirts of

women is currently not recognised as

a specific offence. Figures released

following a Freedom of information

request have found there have been

just 11 charges related to

upskirting since 2015. This woman

was travelling on public transport

with her parents when it happened to

her.

I was on the tube, I had just sat

down and a man across from me

started shouting at the man sitting

next to him, saying I have seen what

you have done, it is disgusting, you

have just been taking a picture of

that girl's skirt. He turns to me

and said he has just been taking

pictures up your skirt, look. Ten to

my parents and said the exact same

thing. -- turned to my parents said.

I was so humiliated and I just

froze. Fortunately at that moment we

pulled up at the next stop and I

just got off the tube and burst into

tears.

Many of KFC's 900 UK outlets

will remain closed today -

because of a continuing

lack of chicken.

The fast food chain has blamed

teething problems after switching

to a new logistics deal with DHL

and Quick Service Logistics.

KFC is encouraging staff to take

holiday while outlets are closed.

They say salaried staff

will be paid as normal.

But the majority of

outlets are franchises -

which means many workers

could be hit hard.

That's a summary of the latest BBC

News - more at 10:30am.

Thank you very much.

Here's some sport now with Olly.

Manchester City's hopes of a

quadruple this season are over. They

are out of the FA Cup, beaten by

League 1 Wigan athletic 1-0 last

night, the same team that beat them

on the 2013 cup final. The match

turned on this really nasty

challenge from Fabian Delph on max

power. Paul Cook, the Wigan box,

waved an imaginary card, which

infuriated the opposition bench.

Referee Anthony Taylor originally

looked to be giving dealt yellow

card, it was a red card. That

sparked a heated exchange as the

City boss Pep Guardiola confronted

cook and directory. In the 79th

minute, the FA Cup top scorer from

the season, Will Grigg, scored his

seventh. There will surely be

repurposed portion -- be

repercussions after what happened

after full-time. There was a pitch

invasion and City players were

caught up in it, including Sergio

Aguero who was involved in an

altercation with a Wigan supporter.

You can see him at the bottom of

your screen. He seems to respond to

provocation. Some of the visiting

5000 Man City fans through

advertising hoardings up police.

Wigan will play Southampton in the

quarterfinals, City's hopes of a

quadruple are over.

I don't have regrets,

the way we played, the performance.

Our heart is the same,

the intention.

So I judge my players

for the intentions, not the results.

And the intentions always was good,

during the season, today as well

but the fact is we are out of the FA

Cup.

The next match for City is against

Arsenal in the League Cup final on

Sunday.

There's one last chance

for Elise Christie to

save her Olympic career.

Disqualified three times in Sochi

four years ago, she has fallen

in both her short-track skating

events so far in South Korea.

Let's cross live

to our correspondent

Andy Swiss in PyeongChang.

She is due on track very, very

shortly. How fit will she be?

It

will be fascinating to see, Ollie.

Most of us thought to her Olympics

are over after the terrible crush on

Saturday. She will be back on the

ice rink this morning, a full

training session afterwards. She

posted a video on social media where

she said she thought it went quite

well and she was hoping to compete,

although her performance director

says she is only around 80% or 90%

fit. I suppose the good news for her

is it is only the heats, the rest of

the event does not take place until

Thursday. If she can get through

this heat she would have another

couple of days to rest up that

ankle. Her Olympic journey so far

has been one of desperate

disappointment. Free

disqualifications in Saatchi four

years ago and force here. -- free

disqualifications in Sochi. She is

the reigning world champion, and

what a film script it would be if

she could come out with a gold

medal.

The curling is nonstop, it has been

up and down for the Brits but they

have had a good day?

They have. Just

when they needed and they seem to

find their form. They made a

slightly shaky start in the

competition, but good wins for both

the men and women. The man thrashed

Norway 10-3, a terrific performance,

their best performance of the

competition so far -- the men. The

women beat Japan 8-6, giving both

teams a really good chance of

getting through to the semifinals.

The final round-robin matches take

place tomorrow.

Andy Serkis, many

thanks indeed for that update from

PyeongChang. That is it for now, we

will be keeping our eyes and Elise

Christie. -- Andy Swiss, many

thanks.

Thomas has that I'm 17, I have

cerebral palsy and my parents have

been changing needs on toilet floors

for years -- Thomas says. I

regularly sit in soiled pads when

out. This Saturday, how about

shutting every toilet in the country

for one day and see how the nation

copes? Only then will some people

understand this issue. Thank you,

Thomas. You are very welcome to

e-mail us.

We will talk to some people who have

been upskirted in the next hour of

the programme. If you have an

experience of that review of whether

it should be a specific criminal

offence and in Gwent and Wales, let

me know.

David Attenborough, John Collins,

Lib Dem leader Vince Cable, Joanna

Lumley. All working, all in their

70s, 80s and 90s.

-- David Attenborough, Joan Collins.

We have a better understanding of

the natural world than ever. We know

how best to protected for future

generations. I can only hope that we

will.

I have played, always from when I

was very, very young, starting in

movies at 17, I have always played

the bad girl, the juvenile

delinquents, the girl gone wrong. As

I got older it was the pitch or the

woman with a vendetta. Maybe it is

something to do with the way I look.

CHEERING

I think we're doing a picture.

OK.

This is a bit like curling, isn't

it?

We are coming to you from the

ravishing Royal Albert Hall,

bursting with the seams with history

and a place that exactly 100 years

ago hosted an historic event

celebrating the first group of

British women being given the votes.

A century ago, the suffragettes laid

the groundwork for the kind of dog

resistance and powerful protest that

is carried forward today with the

Times Of movement, and with that the

determination to eradicate the

inequality and abuse of women the

world over.

APPLAUSE

They make it look quite easy, but

how many of you will still be

working when you are in your 70s?

How many of us. Maybe some of you

are already. By 2036 nearly quarter

of the population will be over 65,

and the number of people over the

age of 85 will double. What are the

implications of an ageing population

for working habits and the society

in which we live? A report out this

morning from the Centre For Ageing

Better says keeping older people in

work could add £18 billion to the

economy each year. What should we be

doing now to adjust to an age in

which the number of people of 85

will double, as I said? Let's talk

about this with two people who can

tell us what it is like to work in

your later years. Professor Sir

Colin Blakemore is 73, works

full-time and is a member of the

longevity science panel. Pedro is a

former journalist, he is 63 and

recently started his own business.

Patrick Thompson is from the Centre

For Ageing Better and the Althorp

today's report. Colin, you believe

retirement is bad for your health?

I

think the evidence is clear on that.

To be working five days a week,

suddenly stop and fall over the

cliff of activity into a different

world with lack of social

stimulation, an opportunity to

travel, move around, a feeling of

responsibility for what you are

doing, there is clear evidence it

can have a negative effect.

In terms