22/02/2018 Victoria Derbyshire


22/02/2018

The BBC's daily news and current affairs programme. Victoria talks to victims, campaigners and politicians to discuss how to tackle the rise in knife crime across the UK.


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Transcript


LineFromTo

Hello.

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It's Thursday, it's 9 o'clock,

I'm Victoria Derbyshire,

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welcome to the programme.

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Antidepressants do work, and more of

us should be using them.

This is the

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final answer to a long-lasting

controversy about the efficacy of

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antidepressants.

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Have anti

depressants worked for you?

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Let us know about your experience.

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Donald Trump says if teachers had

guns, they could stop mass shootings

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in American schools.

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The president put forward the idea

during a meeting at the White House

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with survivors and relatives

of victims of recent attacks,

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who begged him to make sure it

doesn't happen again.

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I am very angry that this happened,

because it keeps happening. 9/11

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happened once and they fixed

everything. How many schools, how

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many children have to get shot? It's

stops here with this administration

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in May. -- and me.

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We'll be speaking to two

of the survivors of the attack

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at the high school in Florida last

week which left 17 people dead

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to get their eaction

to Mr Trump's suggestion

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And here, at the Brits last night,

Stormzy, beat Ed Sheeran to win best

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British male and best British album.

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And Dua Lipa also picked up two

awards for best British female

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and the breakthrough award.

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Well, congratulations.

Here is two

more women on these stages, more

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women winning awards, and more women

taking over the world. Thank you so

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much. -- to more women.

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Hello.

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Welcome to the programme,

we're live until 11 this morning.

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In a few minutes' time,

we're going to talk about the grim

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rise in knife crime after two more

people were stabbed

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in North London on Tuesday night.

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It's a big issue for the capital,

but knife crime is on the rise

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right across the country.

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This morning

we've brought together a group

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of people with form ideas about how

to tackle knife crime.

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Parents who've lost sons to fatal

stabbings, politicans,

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and a former Met officer.

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And wherever you are in the country,

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we'd like to hear your solutions

to tackling knife crime.

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Text, email, FB or whatsapp.

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Our top story today.

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Scientists say they've settled one

of medicine's biggest debates

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after a huge study found

that anti-depressants work.

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It could mean that millions

more sufferers could

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benefit from the drugs.

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Andrew Plant reports.

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They're

one of the most commonly

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used drugs in the UK with 64 million

prescriptions for antidepressants

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given out every year.

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That's more than one

prescription per person.

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But for years there's been debate

and doubt over how effective

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they really are.

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Now the University of Oxford has

analysed the data on a huge scale

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and says every one of the 21 drugs

they looked that did help patients

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to manage their depression.

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We found almost all the commonly

prescribed antidepressants

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worked for major depression

and for people with moderate

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to severe depression,

and we also found some of them

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are more effective than others,

or better tolerated than others.

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Many who take antidepressants say

there is still a stigma attached

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to using the medication.

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When I first started taking them,

the first question asked

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was when are you going to come off

them, are you going to take them

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for a short amount of time?

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It doesn't really work like that.

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You wouldn't say to a diabetic,

when are you going to wean yourself

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off insulin, you know?

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I think people need

to realise that the benefits,

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it's an ongoing thing.

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The study also ranked the drugs

according to how effective

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they were, which could help doctors

pick the right prescriptions

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for their patients.

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Andrew Plant, BBC News.

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And if anti-depressants

have worked for you,

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let us know what difference they've

made to your life.

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And those experiences

of yours will be part

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of our conversation this morning.

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Right, the rest of the morning's

news, here's Rachel.

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Giving teachers guns could help

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prevent further school shootings

in the US.

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That's the message from

President Trump as he sat down

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in the White House with survivors

of last week's Florida

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high school shooting.

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Barbara Plett Usher has the story.

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The people demand a hearing.

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In Florida, telling their lawmakers

loud and clear, they don't want this

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mass shooting to drop off

the political agenda

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like all the others have.

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At the White House, President Trump

was listening to victims

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of the Parkland school attack,

but also those that came before it.

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Andrew Pollack's 18-year-old

daughter, Meadow, was

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killed last week.

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It doesn't make sense, fix it,

should have been one school shooting

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and we should have fixed it.

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And I'm ****ed.

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Because my daughter I'm

not going to see again.

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She's not here, she's not here,

she's in North Lauderdale

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or whatever it is,

King David Cemetery,

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that's where I go to see my kid now.

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It doesn't make sense

to her schoolmate, Samuel Zeif,

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either, especially the gunman's

access to a semiautomatic rifle.

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I don't understand,

I turned 18 the day after,

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woke up to the news that my best

friend was gone and I don't

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understand why I could still go

in a store and buy a weapon of war.

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The president has responded to calls

for tougher gun laws with promises

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of strong background checks,

but also more guns.

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It's called concealed

carry, where a teacher

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would have a concealed gun on them.

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They'd go for special training.

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There is some support for that

argument, but students who survived

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the attack flooded Florida's state

legislature demanding a ban

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on assault rifles.

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ALL: Never again!

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The students aim to harness that

momentum and turn it

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into a national campaign.

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Barbara Plett-Usher, BBC News.

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The UN Security Council will vote on

a draft resolution later demanding a

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month-long ceasefire to the fighting

in Syria. Reports suggest more than

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300 people have been killed in the

area near Damascus since Sunday. The

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UN Secretary General as hell on

earth in the rebel enclave. Theresa

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May will seek to overcome

differences on Brexit amongst her

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senior ministers today. She will be

chairing a meeting intended to

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hammer out the cabinet position on

future relations with the EU, at

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Chequers. Norman Smith joins us from

Westminster and I imagine this will

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be quite the awayday.

It will be a

long day and all of the signs are

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that it could go on until 10pm

tonight as Theresa May tries to end

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the splits in her Cabinet over

Brexit between those like Philip

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Hammond who want to remain close to

EU rules and to guarantee access to

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the single market and those like

Boris Johnson who want the freedom

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to diverged and pursue our own trade

deals but there is almost certainly

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going to have to be a deal because

the clock is ticking and if we want

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a trade deal by autumn we have to

let the EU no what sort of package

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we want, and were Theresa May unable

to get the Cabinet to move together,

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that would be a nightmare scenario

because it would fuel perception of

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difference in the Cabinet, raise?

About leadership and, frankly would

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say to EU negotiators that we were

still at sixes and sevens and don't

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know what we want from rags --

raising questions about leadership.

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Centrica, the owner of British Gas,

has said it will cut 4,000 jobs

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over the next two years.

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This morning the company,

which employs around 33,000 people

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announced a big fall in profits

and said that British Gas had lost

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nearly 10% of its UK domestic

customers last year.

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People convicted of domestic abuse

offences in England and Wales will

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be more likely to go to prison under

new sentencing guidelines. The first

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time the guidance will say domestic

offences should be treated more

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seriously than similar crimes that

do not involve family members or

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partners.

The new guidance will also

extend a domestic abuse to include

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threats on social media.

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A helicopter carrying six British

tourists on a flight near the Grand

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Canyon in the US spun around at

least twice before crashing and

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catching fire according to

investigators. Three passengers died

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in the accident earlier this month

while for more people including the

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pilot were badly hurt. The

preliminary report by air accident

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investigators does not say why the

helicopter crashed.

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A month of strikes affecting 64 UK

universities and 1 million students

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begins today. Lecturers are walking

out over changes to their pensions

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which they say could leave them up

to £10,000 per year worse off in

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retirement. Their employer,

universities UK, says the pension

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scheme as a £6 billion deficit which

cannot be ignored.

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# Theresa May, where's

the money for Grenfell?

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# Well, you fool me,

just forgot about Grenfell.

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A powerful political performance

from grime star Stormzy.

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He won Best Male and Best Album

for Gang Signs & Prayer.

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Gang Signs & Prayer,

this was the hardest thing that I've

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ever worked on something

like this in my life.

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Everything I put in that album,

I didn't have anything left after.

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You can ask Fraser, we went

in there, we made something

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that I thought was undeniable,

I can stand by it today.

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Gang Signs & Prayer,

album of the year, I love you, guys.

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Thank you so much, man, thank you.

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# One, don't pick up the phone.

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# You know he's only calling 'cause

he's drunk and alone.

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# Two, don't let him in...

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Two awards for 22-year-old Dua Lipa.

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She won Breakthrough

Artist and Best Female.

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She paid tribute to the many women

in music who'd influenced her.

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I want to thank every single female

who has been on the stage performing

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who has given girls like me,

not just girls in the music industry

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but girls in society,

a place to be inspired by,

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to look up to, and that have allowed

us to dream this big.

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There was a politically

charged winner's speech

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clearly referencing Brexit from Blur

star Damon Albarn whose band

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Gorillaz won Best British Group.

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This country is, believe it or not,

quite a small little thing, right?

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But it's full of...it's

a lovely place.

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What I want to say is,

don't let it become isolated.

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# I'm only human, I do what I can.

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Rag'n'Bone Man won Best Single

for his hit Human.

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Ed Sheeran received

the Global Success award.

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And there was a special tribute

from Liam Gallagher commemorating

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last month's Manchester

Arena bombing.

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# Maybe I don't really wanna know

how your garden grows...

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Lizo Mzimba, BBC News.

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That's your summary of the latest

news. Back to Victoria. Thanks for

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your messages about antidepressants,

and we are only speaking about this

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because scientists say they have

settled one of medicine 's biggest

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debates after a hugely fan

antidepressants work. We will talk

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in more detail about the study after

ten a:m.. Gareth says if they

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prescribed properly for depression

they can work but they are not the

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antibiotics of mental health. This

tweet says, I take antidepressants,

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they don't cure the problem that

they allow me to take a break to

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think. Prior to that I was suicidal.

So for me, they've been a

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life-saver. I did try to come off

them for a few months but the

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depression and darkness came Black

so I went back on. Thank you for

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that, and we will feed your

experiences into our conversation.

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You can send this e-mail. -- send us

an e-mail.

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Let's get some sport with Hugh

and some disappointment

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for Britain's men's

curling team overnight.

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Yes, real disappointment that the

Team GB men could not match the

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women by reaching the semifinals of

the curling competition. They had

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one last chance to survive

overnight, play-off against

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Switzerland but they were beaten

9-5, despite being ahead with two

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ends to play. The Swiss did

something you don't see too often,

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scoring a 5-point stone in the

penultimate end meaning they advance

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rather than Team GB. Disappointment

for them, especially after taking a

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silver medal in the event four years

ago. There was some good news for

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Dave Riding, finishing ninth in the

men's slalom. He vowed to come back

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and Challenger in medal in Beijing

in four years' time and he thinks he

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can do the same as a gold medallist

and perform at the age of 35. We

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will see Dave riding again, and a

good result in the men's slalom. A

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tense finish to the women's ice

hockey final with the US winning a

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dramatic penalty shoot out in the

women's final to take gold and stop

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Canada from winning their fifth

straight title. The USA keeper was

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the hero, sparking those wild

celebrations, and disappointment for

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the Canadians. Today the Russian

curler who had won a mixed doubles

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bronze medal in the curling

alongside his wife, today he has

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been stripped of the medal after

admitting to doping. He was

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representing the Olympic athletes

from the Russian team, one of a

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Russians allowed to compete as

neutrals, despite the country being

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banned for the state-sponsored

doping scandal. Not really the sort

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of story that the Russians sporting

officials would have been hoping

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for.

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No goals for Manchester United

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in the Champions league at Sevilla

but is that a good first leg result?

0:15:110:15:21

Manchester United and Jose Mourinho

taking a lot of flak in the back

0:15:210:15:24

pages today, they never got going in

that time. They were lucky to get

0:15:240:15:28

away with a goalless draw against

Serbia. The pre-match chat was

0:15:280:15:32

around record signing Paul Pogba, on

the bench. His exile was short

0:15:320:15:37

lived, he was brought on after 60

minutes for the injured Ander

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Herrera. Severe had the best chances

of the night, 25 shots on goal. Back

0:15:420:15:51

in his native Spain, their keeper

denied Manchester United a goal.

0:15:510:15:57

They'll be back soon at Old

Trafford.

And Mark Cavendish has

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injured himself. Embarrassing for

the organisers of the Abu Dhabi and

0:16:010:16:10

tall. He lasted three miles. The

pellets and took out one of the cars

0:16:100:16:15

and his automatic braking system was

activated suddenly, causing the

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crash. He injured his shoulder, and

suffered concussion and whiplash and

0:16:200:16:28

was forced to withdraw from the race

so we hope he recovers well. Thank

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you, Hugh. More sports news from

Hugh throughout the morning.

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It should have been a Tuesday night

like any other in capital this week.

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Except two people were stabbed

to death in the space of two hours.

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Less than a mile apart

in Camden, in north London.

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Abdikarim Hassan was 17

and Sadiq Adan Mohamed was 20.

0:16:480:16:58

Tragically, Sadiq's

brother was also fatally

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stabbed back in September.

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He too was twenty years of age.

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The brother's "devastated" mother is

calling for an end to knife crime.

0:17:040:17:07

Lost two sons!

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You have lost two sons.

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Two sons, five months.

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Two stabbings.

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Yes.

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My sister's son.

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And you've said they

were both good lads,

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educated, is there any chance

they could have had enemies,

0:17:310:17:33

could have been involved in gang

culture of any kind?

0:17:330:17:36

No, no, no.

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Do you think enough is being done

to tackle knife crime?

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No.

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In my borough, Camden, all the boys

go on streets with a knife.

0:18:000:18:03

Since the start of the year,

and we're only now in February,

0:18:030:18:06

there have been SIXTEEN fatal

stabbings in the capital.

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Five of those were teenagers.

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It comes as knife crime nationally

has increased rapidly

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over the last few years.

0:18:110:18:13

There were a total of 80 deaths

from stabbings in 2017 -

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the most in almost a decade.

0:18:160:18:17

So what's going on?

0:18:170:18:18

And what can, and should, be done

to stop the rise in knife crime?

0:18:180:18:21

Let's speak now to victims,

campaigners and politicians to see

0:18:210:18:24

what ideas they have

to tackle this growing issue.

0:18:240:18:26

Alison Cope, whose son Joshua

was fatally stabbed aged 18 in 2013.

0:18:260:18:36

Paul Barnes, whose son Quamari

was stabbed to death last year aged

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15.

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Paul has been on the programme

before, his son was 15 when he died.

0:18:430:18:52

Claire van Helfteren

from Capital Conflict Management -

0:18:520:18:57

an organisation that mediates

between gang members.

0:18:570:19:02

Shaun Bailey, a Conservative

London Assembly Member.

0:19:020:19:05

Dal Babu - former Chief

Superintendent, Metropolitan Police.

0:19:050:19:07

Alika Agidi-Jeffs, who grew up

around gangs as a boy,

0:19:070:19:09

two of his friends have

been stabbed to death.

0:19:090:19:12

Louise Haigh, Labour MP

and shadow policing minister.

0:19:120:19:17

Elena Noel, trustee of the charity

Growing Against Violence.

0:19:170:19:24

Thank you all for coming on the

programme. Alison, I would like to

0:19:240:19:28

begin with you. Tell our audience

what happened to your son.

My son

0:19:280:19:34

Joshua went out to a party on Friday

night and never came home. He was

0:19:340:19:39

followed and said the club and

stabbed once in the heart. Fought

0:19:390:19:43

hard to stay alive but died on

September 21 in 2013.

How do you

0:19:430:19:51

cope with that?

I survive. Time

hasn't made it better. I do my best

0:19:510:20:00

and I put my grief into keeping my

son's name alive and talking about

0:20:000:20:05

him in prisons in the West Midlands

and around the country.

Google talk

0:20:050:20:08

about your work further today

because you think that has an effect

0:20:080:20:15

and stops people carrying knives

which is the whole purpose of this

0:20:150:20:19

conversation. Paul, thank you again

for coming on the programme. You

0:20:190:20:23

have spent the last year adjusting

to the loss of one of your children.

0:20:230:20:27

Can you describe what that is like?

Very hard. Especially when you see

0:20:270:20:33

more kids losing their life the same

way. Nothing has changed in the last

0:20:330:20:38

year. It's getting a lot was out

there. It is hard to get over the

0:20:380:20:42

death of my son, nothing has been

done about it.

Is that what people

0:20:420:20:50

generally feel, that nothing has

been done about it?

Things are being

0:20:500:20:57

done but unfortunately it's kind of

overshadowed by the fact that it is

0:20:570:21:02

still not enough. I feel and

unfortunately there's a lot of

0:21:020:21:06

tokenism, one small thing getting

down and then the people in power

0:21:060:21:09

who can do more going, well, we've

done that. It's like doing 1% out of

0:21:090:21:17

a hundred, and just saying, well, we

started. It's not enough for the

0:21:170:21:22

families.

Lots of organisations are

doing good work but if you look at

0:21:220:21:29

Scotland, they've actually reduced

crime...

Three weeks ago on this

0:21:290:21:35

programme we did look at what

they've done.

It's a coordinated

0:21:350:21:40

response. The problem with funding

is that everyone is fighting for the

0:21:400:21:43

same pot of money, they will maybe

hold onto it and not collaborate

0:21:430:21:47

with organisations which could be

helpful.

You focused on Camden in

0:21:470:21:55

your introduction Victoria, I worked

there for five years and I know it

0:21:550:21:58

well. I think what we need to look

at is not the funding of

0:21:580:22:02

organisations that are here but

looking at policing reduction costs.

0:22:020:22:08

Leasing has been reduced by over

0:22:080:22:09

Leasing has been reduced by over

20%.

0:22:090:22:19

Do you think there's definitely a

link between the reduction in

0:22:210:22:26

policing cuts?

There's been a

significant reduction in PC sales

0:22:260:22:33

and the number of police officers

reduced, it's an issue across the

0:22:330:22:36

country. It shouldn't just be about

policing. It should be about how we

0:22:360:22:44

coordinate other issues so I'm very

disappointed in Ofsted who should do

0:22:440:22:49

more to safeguard our children in

schools. It's just appalling that

0:22:490:22:52

they don't have the leadership to do

that. Because we need to change the

0:22:520:22:57

way we deal with knife crime in the

way we dealt with bullying. 30 years

0:22:570:23:04

ago no school would admit to a

bullying problem, now every school

0:23:040:23:08

has a bullying policy. I don't know

a single adult who hasn't been

0:23:080:23:10

bullied. We need to put that

pressure on Ofsted.

And just want to

0:23:100:23:19

bring in Shaun Bailey, Conservative

London assembly member. I have you

0:23:190:23:22

what the government has been doing

regarding knife crime. In the spring

0:23:220:23:27

that launching their new serious

violence strategy because they say

0:23:270:23:29

tackling knife crime needs a new way

of thinking. So they are consulting

0:23:290:23:37

on creating offences to prevent

knives being sold online, making it

0:23:370:23:42

an offence to possess certain

offensive weapons in Private, and so

0:23:420:23:47

forth plus various bits of money to

organisations and fans. What do you

0:23:470:23:52

say to what the former Chief

Superintendent from the Matt says

0:23:520:23:57

about reductions in police, -- from

the Metropolitan Police, and the

0:23:570:24:02

link between that and rising knife

crime?

I would say it's the culture

0:24:020:24:10

of young people in general, but the

second thing, about the police, we

0:24:100:24:15

currently have slightly more police

than we had in 2013 which was the

0:24:150:24:19

low point from a numbers point of

view, of young people dying in

0:24:190:24:23

London so I don't see the direct

link between resources in the same

0:24:230:24:27

way that the former officer did.

That's not true, that's not true.

0:24:270:24:32

When I left the police in 2013 there

were 32 1/2-dozen. We are now on

0:24:320:24:37

30,000. The trajectory used to go

down... We need to look at figures

0:24:370:24:46

please. Page two and a half thousand

to 30,000, is what you say is not

0:24:460:24:50

true. The figures have gone down.

Here's my point, it's the

0:24:500:24:55

relationship the police have with

the communities that suffer from

0:24:550:24:58

knife crime at most. The

relationship is no better now, stop

0:24:580:25:04

and search is rejected because it

should be supported, it's an

0:25:040:25:07

important way to make sure people

just can't carry a knife around, and

0:25:070:25:12

you get some intelligence that the

police can use. Those elements of

0:25:120:25:15

the puzzle to solve the problem not

there. There are a number of things

0:25:150:25:19

that no one activity will solve this

problem, a number of things that

0:25:190:25:23

need to be done, the enforcement pot

is important but not the only part.

0:25:230:25:29

You have to accept that police

numbers have gone down.

The

0:25:290:25:33

relationship between the police and

the communities that suffer from

0:25:330:25:36

this, the number stabbed a fact

that.

All communities are suffering.

0:25:360:25:42

There's not one kind of community

that's suffering. So that's not

0:25:420:25:45

really an argument.

Knife crime

isn't this you for all Londoners.

0:25:450:25:55

It's about families all around the

country.

Excuse me. It is a concern

0:25:550:26:01

for everyone but particular

communities suffer from it in the

0:26:010:26:04

most. The black community.

I don't

agree. Because I am white and my

0:26:040:26:12

son, you know, he wasn't black.

It's

unfortunate that the black community

0:26:120:26:19

are dying more. And to stem that

without any relationship between

0:26:190:26:24

them and the police...

Solution lies

that the two things I want to add.

0:26:240:26:29

What the police were doing they

forgot was adding more officers from

0:26:290:26:35

all different backgrounds. That was

working when they started it, they

0:26:350:26:38

need to go back to that. The other

solution is, I feel like, they need

0:26:380:26:45

to make knife crime and bigger

offence, if not as much an offence

0:26:450:26:50

as carrying a gun because it has

proven that knives are more

0:26:500:26:54

dangerous than guns. Why are they

not treated alike in law?

I feel we

0:26:540:27:01

may have jumped a couple of steps.

I'm not criticising you, we've got

0:27:010:27:08

plenty of time, honestly. We are not

just going to scratch the surface of

0:27:080:27:11

this issue. We haven't addressed why

people are carrying knives. Louise?

0:27:110:27:22

The fundamental bedrock of our

policing model in this country,

0:27:220:27:26

while it is envied the world over,

has been destroyed because

0:27:260:27:30

neighbourhood policing has been

decimated. As you rightly said this

0:27:300:27:34

isn't just a London problem. Last

year violent crime in the

0:27:340:27:40

Metropolitan Police increased by 2%,

in South Yorkshire 62%. It is a huge

0:27:400:27:44

issue across the country. You can't

look at that outside the context of

0:27:440:27:49

the decimation of neighbourhood

policing. Two thirds of PCS owes in

0:27:490:27:54

London and cuts to all those other

preventative and early intervention

0:27:540:28:01

services, 350 million taken out in

the last two years, we've taken away

0:28:010:28:05

the ability of the police to enforce

the issue but we are also taking

0:28:050:28:10

away all those schemes and services

that looked at early intervention.

0:28:100:28:16

That's critical. Early intervention

and prevention. Statistics around my

0:28:160:28:23

crime, it is more prevalent in

younger aged children now. They are

0:28:230:28:27

getting involved in it.

How young?

From seven.

Seven-year-olds are

0:28:270:28:36

carrying knives?

They are, getting

involved in and around criminal

0:28:360:28:41

activity?

To you know that for a

fact, seven-year-olds carrying

0:28:410:28:48

knives?

I remember hearing that.

Why? Fear?

Peer pressure as well?

0:28:480:28:58

Inability to manage conflict. We are

not teaching our children how to

0:28:580:29:05

manage conflict, in schools or our

terms of the reaction is to pick up

0:29:050:29:08

a knife. We did not start? For me,

someone who has seen both sides of

0:29:080:29:16

it, social media and mental health.

It's a vast thing that it

0:29:160:29:20

encompasses a lot of it with regard

to the fact that a lot of people are

0:29:200:29:26

being ignored and social media is

showing them extreme images that can

0:29:260:29:32

desensitise them. And mental health,

being able to cope with the peer

0:29:320:29:36

pressure, and knowing that if the

person down the road is threatening

0:29:360:29:39

you with a knife you don't have to

pick up one. Things like that.

0:29:390:29:44

Whether it be a prison, a school,

senior school, have to thousands and

0:29:440:29:50

thousands of young people and asked

them why they carry knives?

0:29:500:29:55

Protection, production, protection.

We are feeding our in people through

0:29:550:30:00

technology. It's scary. And

unfortunately, not everyone but we

0:30:000:30:04

have a new Society of young people

growing up through social media. If

0:30:040:30:08

they go on the news and see

programmes like this about knife

0:30:080:30:13

crime in London and Birmingham, they

are frightened and a lot of them are

0:30:130:30:17

walking away from home into areas

that the government should be

0:30:170:30:21

ashamed of. They need to invest in

those areas, adds to the police,

0:30:210:30:26

make young people feel safer,

support the ones who are struggling

0:30:260:30:29

and help the families.

0:30:290:30:34

I will then ask what they are

afraid. I live in London, I'm a

0:30:340:30:41

mother of two sons aged 18 and 24

and every evening they go out I

0:30:410:30:44

cannot sleep till they come home. I

worry if they are safe or not and I

0:30:440:30:48

am so relieved when I hear the keys

turn on the loch. Living in London

0:30:480:30:52

has become a nightmare for many,

young people and parents alike. Many

0:30:520:30:57

people I talk to now want to leave

London or the UK. Ordinary people

0:30:570:31:02

have been left behind and concerns

neglected. If young people in

0:31:020:31:06

Chelsea and Mayfair were stabbing

one another, I'm sure more would be

0:31:060:31:10

done. We have become a sad, callous

and divided country. This text says

0:31:100:31:15

give the police to do the power they

do their job. Young people have no

0:31:150:31:19

respect for the police. They must be

able to stop and search anyone they

0:31:190:31:22

like without fear of being labelled

racist. Nobody cares unless they can

0:31:220:31:27

be seen to be a liberal thinker.

Time to wake up and get law and

0:31:270:31:31

order back on the streets before we

need the Army. The Labour Mayor of

0:31:310:31:37

London, Sadiq Khan, talked about

increasing stop and search and I

0:31:370:31:40

have the quote somewhere. Louise, is

that the answer?

I think stop and

0:31:400:31:46

searches are really important tool

in fighting knife crime. I used it

0:31:460:31:53

several times as an officer and

there have been concerns about

0:31:530:31:56

numbers slipping back because police

officers don't have the confidence

0:31:560:32:00

to use it because they fear if there

is not a result at the end of it

0:32:000:32:03

they will be criticised or hold true

for an internal complaint. Officers

0:32:030:32:08

need to have the confidence to it

but it has to be intelligence led

0:32:080:32:12

and within the law and within best

practice.

It also needs to be done

0:32:120:32:17

in partnership with the communities.

In Southwark, as co-chairman of the

0:32:170:32:26

safe neighbourhood board, we had a

lot of community dialogue about the

0:32:260:32:29

fact that we are one of the

borrowers with the highest levels of

0:32:290:32:32

knife crime but also that what the

caveats -- one of the borrowers. We

0:32:320:32:39

need to have the engagement with the

community because there are issues

0:32:390:32:42

of disproportionality. And there is

a broad consensus with some.

0:32:420:32:48

Haringey Council, Camden, we started

a thing with the Metropolitan Police

0:32:480:32:55

showing them how stop and search can

be done that would be acceptable for

0:32:550:32:58

young people and how it feels for us

and then Haringey and Camden did the

0:32:580:33:02

same and it was successful. They

need to focus back on that, invest

0:33:020:33:06

in the community. The answers are in

the community that they need to work

0:33:060:33:11

with them.

Are you saying that a

rise in stop and searches will help

0:33:110:33:16

tackle knife crime?

Definitely.

To

echo that point, stop and searches

0:33:160:33:22

have to be done well so you have to

look at how police are trained and

0:33:220:33:26

how young people are instructed will

stop they have body cameras now, so

0:33:260:33:30

how often are they use? Stop and

search sends a powerful message

0:33:300:33:35

saying you cannot walk around armed

and you will be stopped. The police

0:33:350:33:41

can do more directed stop and search

because the injustice of it is how

0:33:410:33:46

disproportional it is that you are

being stopped and what to being

0:33:460:33:49

stopped for. The police find great

support when they do stop and search

0:33:490:33:54

around knife crime, but it's when

they do other things it breaks down.

0:33:540:33:59

Shaun is absolutely right. The body

cameras have made a huge difference

0:33:590:34:02

because police officers understand

that they will be viewed. But I want

0:34:020:34:05

to focus on one point and the issue

of technology. It is absolutely

0:34:050:34:12

appalling the way that Google have

allowed you chew banned videos of

0:34:120:34:17

violence -- you chew have allowed

videos of violence -- YouTube.

They

0:34:170:34:28

say they try to take them down.

They

are not doing enough.

Are you saying

0:34:280:34:34

predominantly young men are going on

to various websites and channels to

0:34:340:34:38

have a look at violent videos?

Even

the females.

They send them.

It is

0:34:380:34:50

setting a culture of fear firstly,

everybody else is armed, so I'd

0:34:500:34:53

better be, but it's also a culture

of this respect. The only way to

0:34:530:34:59

negotiate with someone is to affect

them heavily. There is a show show

0:34:590:35:05

peaks -- eight social peace we have

to do.

It highlights the problems

0:35:050:35:11

within communities and families. We

are a blame society. We blame the

0:35:110:35:17

parents Tom why aren't the parents

doing enough? I understand and

0:35:170:35:22

appreciate that are not all parents

have the resources and capabilities

0:35:220:35:27

to do the best they could be doing

and we need to support these parents

0:35:270:35:31

if they are struggling with many

things, poverty, depression, it's

0:35:310:35:37

going to be very hard to guide

children in the way they should be

0:35:370:35:40

and we need to be helping them to be

better parents. Watching all these

0:35:400:35:46

things that are negative, they have

a voice in the background saying it

0:35:460:35:51

is not OK. Unfortunately that is

missing in many households.

If you

0:35:510:35:58

talk to young people and the ones

who come out of the other end of

0:35:580:36:01

getting involved in gangs, the ones

that have security to fall back on

0:36:010:36:10

our 100% more likely to come out the

other side.

What to fall back on?

Is

0:36:100:36:18

it your family background or someone

who cares about them. When we talk

0:36:180:36:24

about knife crime we bring out

ex-gang members and whilst they have

0:36:240:36:28

a powerful story to tell the story

that is not being told, that is the

0:36:280:36:34

young man who made different

choices. Why aren't we asking them.

0:36:340:36:39

How did you make those different

choices? How did you get involved in

0:36:390:36:45

illegal activity, drug dealing.

What

is the answer? You are a young man,

0:36:450:36:52

I conceive.

The answer to that is,

again, it is the family support. The

0:36:520:37:01

first Meyer carried a knife my mum

and sister saw it and I remember the

0:37:010:37:06

slap around the head I got and the

explanation of it doesn't matter how

0:37:060:37:09

many bullies there are at school,

you talk to us and deal with it.

0:37:090:37:14

That is simply the answer. But to

add on what you said, it's totally

0:37:140:37:18

right when people try to blame the

parents. I always say the analogy

0:37:180:37:23

is, if a child gets taught to plus

two equals three, do you blame the

0:37:230:37:30

child or who taught them? They can

have the best background but if

0:37:300:37:34

social media, if they see on a

normal basis from their friends, the

0:37:340:37:40

world, you cannot protect your child

from the world but if they are still

0:37:400:37:44

pushing that let it be pushed that

it is normal, somebody getting

0:37:440:37:47

slashed or hit with a chair, then

that will get into their psyche.

Do

0:37:470:37:55

you think the link with what you see

on social media was relevant to the

0:37:550:38:01

death of your son?

Social media was

the main part. This boy came from

0:38:010:38:06

the other side of London and had no

way of connecting with each other.

0:38:060:38:10

It starts trouble. It gets kids into

arguments and they seem to want to

0:38:100:38:17

carry it on.

We have mediated a

large number of situations where a

0:38:170:38:22

group of boys have put up a video

disrespecting another group in

0:38:220:38:27

another part of London and four boys

have ended up being stabbed over a

0:38:270:38:32

social media video.

It goes deeper

than that. It goes to the mental

0:38:320:38:38

well-being of young people. We talk

about mental health and its

0:38:380:38:42

associated baggage, but what about

the mental well-being?

Social media

0:38:420:38:46

is allowing people to do that.

Why

that is important is if you can have

0:38:460:38:54

a young child who goes out into the

world and we tried to build their

0:38:540:38:58

resilience. What social media

actually is is a tool to express how

0:38:580:39:01

they feel full -- feel. If they

can't communicate across London,

0:39:010:39:06

they will do it to people across

London. What is normal? How does a

0:39:060:39:11

job reject a bad mode of behaviour?

Explanation. Education. Education

0:39:110:39:19

for communities, the young people.

It has to be coordinated.

When you

0:39:190:39:24

talk to young people about what

happened to your son, do you say to

0:39:240:39:27

them, and you must not carry a

knife?

Never. What I do, or try and

0:39:270:39:33

do, I see 19-year-old young men

wiping tears from their eyes because

0:39:330:39:39

I've suddenly taken this fake

existence and reality to their heart

0:39:390:39:47

and home because what you see and

do, let's take a step back here, you

0:39:470:39:51

go out with a knife, your choice,

you go out with a knife and stab

0:39:510:39:55

someone and that's your choice. Who

is the one person you leave behind

0:39:550:39:58

at home when you make the choice?

Their brain thinks, I live with my

0:39:580:40:05

mum, my Nan, my sister. You flip it

and make them feel. Young people

0:40:050:40:12

don't want to be told. They are sick

of being told how to behave. Don't

0:40:120:40:16

do this, don't do that. We need to

show and lead by example and help

0:40:160:40:21

them.

On schools, like you are

saying, they teach about going to

0:40:210:40:29

get condom is, but they should be

teaching about where to go when you

0:40:290:40:32

need mental support or rather than

bringing in metal detectors in

0:40:320:40:40

school, bring back peer mentors who

work in the school. If we talk about

0:40:400:40:46

knife crime, even on a programme

like this, unfortunately some young

0:40:460:40:49

people, the message they get is that

knife crime is scary so I need to

0:40:490:40:53

protect myself. But if you lead by

example, I did an event when I was

0:40:530:40:59

starting youth work, it was

basically dancing instead of

0:40:590:41:04

stabbing and the stabbing happened

in the event. And we called it just

0:41:040:41:09

dance, there was no stabbing next

time. You are subconsciously pushing

0:41:090:41:13

it.

They suffer from low

self-esteem.

Which young people?

The

0:41:130:41:23

ones involving knife crime. They are

carrying knives to feel better? It

0:41:230:41:30

is about self-esteem, low

confidence, peer pressure and not

0:41:300:41:34

having people around them to help

them to reflect and think about what

0:41:340:41:37

they are doing.

Chelsea tweets that

while knives are easily accessible

0:41:370:41:42

many youngsters are susceptible to

being stabbed. Youngsters need

0:41:420:41:46

reprogramming, mentally. This text

says more community police officers

0:41:460:41:53

and local knowledge is the key. Tony

on Facebook says tougher sentences.

0:41:530:41:58

Anyone caught carrying a knife, five

years and no less.

It is more

0:41:580:42:03

dangerous than a gun. I used to go

to cadets and that is the first

0:42:030:42:08

thing they teach you, knife is more

dangerous.

What would Labour do

0:42:080:42:17

about tackling knife crime?

You

mentioned the Scotland example and

0:42:170:42:20

all of these things are true but

Scottish children are accepted to

0:42:200:42:23

the same type of pressures but not a

single Scottish young person was

0:42:230:42:28

stabbed to death last year so they

have taken the coordination role and

0:42:280:42:31

treated as a public health issue

rather than a criminal justice

0:42:310:42:35

issue.

They have looked at mental

health, background etc?

They say

0:42:350:42:40

they want to have the safest and

healthiest generation of young

0:42:400:42:43

people and all it takes is political

will. Scotland have been subject to

0:42:430:42:46

the same level of cuts to the rest

of the UK.

You would put more money

0:42:460:42:51

into this area? A public health

issue rather than just criminal?

0:42:510:42:57

Don't all talk over each other. No

point.

There are a few things. We

0:42:570:43:05

need to continue the early

intervention and prevention work

0:43:050:43:08

that is in schools with younger

children and older ones, so that is

0:43:080:43:12

an ongoing programme.

No one would

disagree with that, but who will pay

0:43:120:43:17

for it?

I would be more than happy

to pay taxes for that. When I was in

0:43:170:43:26

Camden who worked innovatively with

the local authority and had Sir

0:43:260:43:31

Quentin Blake, long who spoke to

gang members, the children's

0:43:310:43:35

illustrator and it stop the violence

between these gangs and we took a

0:43:350:43:38

group of children to Belfast.

What

did he say to them?

They were more

0:43:380:43:43

interested in seeing him and he

talked about the unpleasant

0:43:430:43:46

characters he drew and he talked

about doing good and this is not the

0:43:460:43:50

kind of opportunities these children

would normally get. You could hear a

0:43:500:43:54

pin drop while he sat there and drew

the figures. We took the children to

0:43:540:43:59

Belfast and they could see the

impact of the violence between

0:43:590:44:03

Catholics and Protestants so we need

to be more innovative. I am really

0:44:030:44:07

keen to make sure we put some

resources, more resources, paying

0:44:070:44:12

more and having greater taxation and

giving money to the wonderful work

0:44:120:44:17

people here are doing.

I am going to

pause there because our time is up.

0:44:170:44:23

Messages from people watching you

from around the country, Hayden says

0:44:230:44:26

stop knife crime by getting young

people back into community services

0:44:260:44:30

in positive role model roles. Ban

the sale of knives to anyone under

0:44:300:44:35

the age of 25 and have metal

detectors in schools and stop

0:44:350:44:39

children playing overrating crime

games. Chuck says gangs thrive on

0:44:390:44:44

poverty and despair and operate is

low policing. The government have

0:44:440:44:49

created the fertile environment that

gangs need to lure the

0:44:490:44:53

disenfranchised. Tim says, many of

the same parents that are tragically

0:44:530:44:57

lost their children to knives have

desensitised their children by

0:44:570:45:02

buying them non-age-appropriate

games where killing with knives is

0:45:020:45:05

fun and entertainment. Society is

also to blame for allowing this to

0:45:050:45:09

happen. Chopping, machete attacks,

sat in isolation in their bedrooms

0:45:090:45:15

has been normalised. What do you

think of that?

I agree, that part of

0:45:150:45:22

the work I do is to show a video

game which shows the choice of a

0:45:220:45:25

knife or a fist and they laugh.

Because that is what they are used

0:45:250:45:30

to, but then I take it to the next

level and take it from a game to

0:45:300:45:33

reality. It is an education for them

that it it is not real.

We

0:45:330:45:43

definitely need to work more closely

with Scotland and to what they did.

0:45:430:45:49

A government statement, every death

from knife crime is a tragedy and

0:45:490:45:52

this government is determined to

break the deadly cycle and protect

0:45:520:45:56

our children and communities. It

requires a new way of thinking. Our

0:45:560:46:01

strategy will be published in the

spring...

How many more young people

0:46:010:46:05

will die before that is my point. My

son was killed four and a half years

0:46:050:46:10

ago and he's not the last person to

be stabbed, he's one of many, many,

0:46:100:46:13

many. The government release

something that they are not

0:46:130:46:18

listening to what actually works.

I

will have to pause you there, really

0:46:180:46:23

sorry. Thank you all for coming, I

really appreciate your time. Thank

0:46:230:46:26

you. The latest migration figures

are just out and net migration has

0:46:260:46:32

fallen by 29,000 two 244,000 in the

year to last September. New figures

0:46:320:46:41

just out, second set of full data

since the UK voted to leave the EU

0:46:410:46:46

in June 20 16. Still short of the

government target to reduce net

0:46:460:46:50

migration to the tens of thousands.

Net migration is the difference

0:46:500:46:55

between people coming to the UK

figure or more and those leaving

0:46:550:46:58

Britain. So it is estimated to have

fallen to 244,000 in the year to

0:46:580:47:04

last September.

0:47:040:47:07

Martha Lane Fox - the entrepreneur,

digital activist and founder

0:47:070:47:10

of lastminute dot com -

wants to sort out the internet.

0:47:100:47:12

A big job.

0:47:120:47:16

Today, she's calling

for an ombudsman for the internet

0:47:160:47:18

who would enforce rules to make sure

standards are upheld and would also

0:47:180:47:21

be the person people would turn

to when things go wrong.

0:47:210:47:24

We'll talk to her in

a moment about that.

0:47:240:47:27

But first here's everything

you need to know about her.

0:47:270:47:36

Lastminute.com is one of the UK's

leading tech entrepreneurs. Never

0:47:360:47:39

far from the limelight, she has been

a high profile campaign of remaining

0:47:390:47:44

in the EU, encouraging more

boardroom diversity and increasing

0:47:440:47:48

female representation in the texts

sector. She came to prominence after

0:47:480:47:53

finding lastminute.com, offering

cheap holiday deals and fast became

0:47:530:47:59

the UK's largest travel website,

when it was sold and was followed at

0:47:590:48:07

£577 million. But in 2004 she

suffered a personal setback when she

0:48:070:48:10

was injured in a near fatal road

accident in Morocco resulting in

0:48:100:48:15

multiple operations and a long spell

in hospital. From 2009 to 2013

0:48:150:48:21

mother worked for government as the

UK's Digital champion, advising

0:48:210:48:25

ministers on how to increase

efficiency by providing services

0:48:250:48:30

online. She then became the youngest

female member of the House of Lords

0:48:300:48:34

where she sits as a crossbench peer

and later a non-executive director

0:48:340:48:38

of Twitter. In the 2016 referendum

she campaigned to remain and is now

0:48:380:48:46

part of the newly launched is it

worth it campaign which asks if the

0:48:460:48:50

UK would be better off staying in

the EU despite having voted to

0:48:500:48:55

leave. The campaign argues that the

public has the right to change its

0:48:550:49:01

mind and reverse the decision if it

sees fit. Mother is still one of the

0:49:010:49:05

most influential voices in the UK

tech sector and advises on how the

0:49:050:49:09

Internet should be governed. She

founded a think tank which tries to

0:49:090:49:16

reduce inequalities brought about by

technology. And she is with me. Good

0:49:160:49:24

morning. Let's talk about this

server you've done, you spoke to

0:49:240:49:28

2500 people about the Internet, some

on line, some on the phone, what did

0:49:280:49:34

people generally feel about it?

It

was interesting that no one had done

0:49:340:49:39

this before, I spend a lot of time

asking people how they feel about

0:49:390:49:43

the Internet and no numbers had been

put at that were statistically

0:49:430:49:46

significant. It is good that it is

fair, there were some headlines, the

0:49:460:49:51

first, not surprisingly, most

people, over 50%, value what the

0:49:510:49:56

Internet offers. We know that 90% of

people use it every day, whether

0:49:560:50:00

searching for things, buying things,

comparing deals, looking at maps,

0:50:000:50:04

all the things you know well. The

thing that really surprised me,

0:50:040:50:08

though, was the even though the

majority of people said they could

0:50:080:50:11

see the benefit to them, only 12%

said they could see the benefit to

0:50:110:50:16

society at a macro level. That's

quite a disparity.

Why are people

0:50:160:50:24

worried about the effect on society?

A bunch of things. No doubt that in

0:50:240:50:29

the last year know there has been

what people are calling a tech -

0:50:290:50:34

lash. Sudbury view in what -- a sort

of a review of the way companies

0:50:340:50:40

operating. It's hard to get a handle

on this stuff. It's not like you can

0:50:400:50:47

see it, go into a high street and

get a sense of how did they treat

0:50:470:50:54

their workers, you good web page and

it is hard to know what is behind

0:50:540:50:57

it. People are becoming increasingly

concerned with that lack of

0:50:570:51:00

visibility.

Having read the report,

one quote really. A number of codes

0:51:000:51:08

stood out. Someone said, in other

industries, somebody rips you of you

0:51:080:51:15

go to the ombudsman. I don't know if

there's one for the Internet, there

0:51:150:51:19

isn't, if there is one, who is it?

So that lead you to call for an

0:51:190:51:25

independent regulator.

This is quite

a nuanced issue. There are places

0:51:250:51:29

you can go but I think people don't

know about them so you can go to the

0:51:290:51:33

Internet Commissioner 's office, you

can go to the Ombudsman, there are

0:51:330:51:38

consumer rights organisations as

well, but and is confusing and

0:51:380:51:42

messy. You only have to look at,

let's look at serious crime online.

0:51:420:51:48

The police get overloaded with

people coming to them when to no

0:51:480:51:52

fault of any ones they don't have

the expertise to sort this out. It's

0:51:520:51:59

hard to know whether it is serious

or not serious. Anything from, I am

0:51:590:52:05

nervous about what has happened to

my data to, I want to complain about

0:52:050:52:08

what went wrong with this

transaction. It pays into a bigot

0:52:080:52:14

picture of, we need to help all our

policy to understand the Internet

0:52:140:52:20

and make it fit for purpose and 2018

and that is a big challenge for

0:52:200:52:25

society.

Is not about lessons in

schools?

It'll take a long time to

0:52:250:52:30

come through. I sit in Parliament

and my perception is that to the

0:52:300:52:34

fold to know one, it is just

experience, hard for people who are

0:52:340:52:39

making laws and influencing those

who make laws to have had the

0:52:390:52:42

experience of the Internet that I

have had because I've worked in it

0:52:420:52:45

all my life and yet I'm still often

confused! So how can we help people

0:52:450:52:55

in the public sector have a higher

level of digital understanding? And

0:52:550:52:58

one thing we want from the report is

to encourage the government to think

0:52:580:53:00

about how it can help its own

employees to understand the Internet

0:53:000:53:02

but all of us at a more macro level.

You mentioned at the beginning that

0:53:020:53:08

it has had a strongly positive

impact on our lives as individuals.

0:53:080:53:11

And that is a good thing. We need to

remember that in all the time we

0:53:110:53:16

talk about the worrying thing.

Absolutely right, be lucky, I've

0:53:160:53:21

worked in technology all my working

life. I think back to the early days

0:53:210:53:26

of lastminute.com. People did not

really believe that people would but

0:53:260:53:32

there are credit cards into the

Internet. And now look at what you

0:53:320:53:35

can do. Even listening to, people

talking about knife crime, the fact

0:53:350:53:42

that social media can get messages

out there, these are all

0:53:420:53:45

extraordinarily positive things.

It's important to remember that.

0:53:450:53:49

I've worked on helping people who

don't have access to the Internet

0:53:490:53:53

and getting access to the Internet,

we still are digitally divided

0:53:530:53:58

society. It's a force for good but

we can help make it more responsible

0:53:580:54:04

and help us as citizens and users

feel more sure and confident about

0:54:040:54:08

the things that we are doing.

I

would like to ask you about Twitter.

0:54:080:54:16

It was recently revealed that your

Twitter account had been buying

0:54:160:54:20

followers. What action have you

taken?

I can't talk about the

0:54:200:54:24

company, as a director but I can

tell you about this. I had someone

0:54:240:54:28

working for me a few years ago who

mistakenly thought it was a good

0:54:280:54:32

idea to buy some rich. I don't think

she knew she was buying something

0:54:320:54:38

that was fake. We don't work

together any more. I take

0:54:380:54:41

responsibility for this. It was a

large arrow. Part of a larger

0:54:410:54:46

problem about how companies are

building up this idea that you can

0:54:460:54:49

get access to people and therefore

have more eyeballs in front of what

0:54:490:54:53

you say, that is marginally smaller

is you in my own personal history.

0:54:530:54:59

Thank you for talking to. Martha

Lane Fox.

0:54:590:55:03

Coming up,

0:55:030:55:04

we'll be discussing last night's

surprise results at the Brit Awards.

0:55:040:55:08

British album of the year goes to

Stormzy.

0:55:080:55:19

The South London grime star had a

great night, will tell you about all

0:55:210:55:25

the winners and losers. New net

migration figures have been

0:55:250:55:34

released, the number of people, net

migration, that is, the disparity

0:55:340:55:45

between the number of people leaving

the UK and coming to the UK has

0:55:450:55:51

fallen by 20 9000. Danny Shaw is

with me. What's the total now?

Net

0:55:510:55:57

migration, the difference between

numbers coming to live here for

0:55:570:55:59

Europe or more or leaving is still

244,000, well above the government

0:55:590:56:05

target of less than 100,000, still a

long way from meeting that target.

0:56:050:56:09

Net migration has fallen by 29,000,

though, so it is dropping a bit.

0:56:090:56:15

When you look more closely at the

figures, you are seeing two distinct

0:56:150:56:18

things going on. What you are seeing

is a slowdown of people coming to

0:56:180:56:23

live in the UK from other EU

countries, although the net figure

0:56:230:56:28

is still high, at 90,000, but it is

the lowest for six years. Net

0:56:280:56:37

migration, still more people coming

from the EU then leaving from the EU

0:56:370:56:42

but lower than it has been for many

years. What is really interesting is

0:56:420:56:47

that the number leaving the EU from

the EU countries -- leaving the UK

0:56:470:56:54

from the EU is now at its highest.

That suggests there is a real

0:56:540:57:03

Brexodus here following the vote in

the referendum. Yet what we are

0:57:030:57:08

seeing conversely, this is

interesting and it might worry the

0:57:080:57:10

government because they are trying

to bring down net migration, we are

0:57:100:57:14

seeing the number of people from

outside the EU coming to Britain

0:57:140:57:17

going up.

And the government can

control that in a way that they

0:57:170:57:22

can't with the EU citizens because

we are still a member of the EU.

0:57:220:57:29

Outside EU people are not subject to

freedom of movement, restrictions

0:57:290:57:33

are placed but it does suggest that

companies that might be struggling

0:57:330:57:37

to recruit people from the EU are

turning their attention to those

0:57:370:57:41

nations outside the EU. So those

figures of people coming here from

0:57:410:57:48

outside EU are now at their highest

level for around five or six years.

0:57:480:57:52

Thank you, Danny.

0:57:520:58:03

What a night it was at the Brit

awards. Here and highlights.

0:58:030:58:11

Ladies and gentlemen welcome

to the Brit awards 2018.

0:58:110:58:14

# Yo Theresa May where's

the money for Grenfell?

0:58:140:58:16

# What, you thought we just

forgot about Grenfell?

0:58:160:58:21

# You're criminals and you've got

the cheek to call us Savages

0:58:210:58:31

# You should have some chill time,

you should pay some damages

0:58:320:58:35

# You should burn your house down

and see if you can manage this.

0:58:350:58:39

Stormzy!

0:58:390:58:40

Thank God because that's

the reason why I'm here.

0:58:400:58:42

Stormzy!

0:58:420:58:43

We made something that

I feel is undeniable.

0:58:430:58:46

I can stand by it today,

Gang Signs and Prayers, album of the

0:58:460:58:49

year.

0:58:490:58:50

I love you guys, thank you so much.

0:58:500:58:52

Dua Lipa!

0:58:520:58:53

Here's to more women on these

stages, more women winning

0:58:530:58:55

awards and more women

taking over the world!

0:58:550:58:57

Dua Lipa!

0:58:570:58:58

I wanted them to

experience it first hand.

0:58:580:59:00

I love you.

0:59:000:59:02

In a tribute to the people

we so sadly lost that day but will

0:59:020:59:07

always live on forever in our

hearts, in our minds and in our

0:59:070:59:10

memories, please welcome

onstage Liam Gallagher.

0:59:100:59:20

# We'll see things

they'll never see,

0:59:210:59:22

# You and I are going to live

forever #.

0:59:220:59:28

It is so amazing to see so many

women tonight wearing the rose.

0:59:280:59:31

We're very proud be women.

0:59:310:59:35

Considering our size, we do

incredible things in music, you know

0:59:350:59:38

what I mean.

0:59:380:59:40

We've got a real spirit

and a real soul.

0:59:400:59:42

And don't let politics get

in the way of all of

0:59:420:59:44

that.

0:59:440:59:45

Ed Sheeran.

0:59:450:59:49

# I'm in love with

the shape of you #

0:59:490:59:52

The global success has

come from all the record

0:59:520:59:54

labels that I work with

0:59:540:59:55

around the world.

0:59:551:00:05

The person who kind

of keeps that together is a

1:00:051:00:07

girl called Gabby Cawthorne.

1:00:071:00:08

This one's for Gabby,

thank you so much.

1:00:081:00:10

This one's for Gabby,

thank you so much.

1:00:101:00:10

Let's get the latest

weather update.

1:00:101:00:15

I am bored with this freezing

weather. You're bored? Look at

1:00:151:00:19

whether Caldwell comes from from

Monday, a lot of freezing weather

1:00:191:00:23

across a lot of Europe, and that air

coming towards us. It's getting

1:00:231:00:27

colder next week with the chance of

seeing snow as well.

These are the

1:00:271:00:32

main headlines for the weather next

week, it's important, this is why

1:00:321:00:36

I'm telling you about it, called

with the bitter wind making it feel

1:00:361:00:40

colder, widespread frost overnight,

sharp frost and that chance was no

1:00:401:00:44

which we will firm up over the next

few days. One worth watching. You

1:00:441:00:51

might think it is chilly today, but

it will get colder, most places will

1:00:511:00:58

remain dry, showers of Northern

Ireland and West Scotland with the

1:00:581:01:01

wind picking up. This afternoon

temperatures which between four and

1:01:011:01:05

seven Celsius, the breeze picking up

towards the south of the UK to

1:01:051:01:09

Northern Ireland and western

Scotland so it will feel more chilly

1:01:091:01:13

in the breeze. Tonight some areas of

cloud, lengthy clear spells

1:01:131:01:17

developing, that will allow timber

just a fall, with the exception of

1:01:171:01:22

Northern Ireland into western

Scotland, Greece and cloud will keep

1:01:221:01:25

the temperature up, compared with

elsewhere, several degrees below

1:01:251:01:29

freezing for some of us going into

tomorrow morning, maybe the

1:01:291:01:33

occasional fog patch, most of us

will avoid that. Tomorrow, areas of

1:01:331:01:38

cloud, sunny spells, most places

will be dry, the breeze picking up a

1:01:381:01:42

little further, that will make it

feel cold even though temperatures

1:01:421:01:46

tomorrow are similar to today. The

bitter cold weather comes next week.

1:01:461:01:53

Hello it's Thursday, it's 10

o'clock, I'm Victoria Derbyshire.

1:01:531:01:58

A major study of anti-depressants

says that they are effective

1:01:581:02:01

and that many more people

across the UK could

1:02:011:02:03

benefit from taking them.

1:02:031:02:06

We'll hear the experiences of people

who've taken the medication.

1:02:061:02:13

We'll be asking what affect it it's

had on their lives.

1:02:131:02:15

President Trump says giving teachers

guns might be the answer to help

1:02:151:02:18

prevent future mass shootings

in the US.

1:02:181:02:21

This would only be for obviously

people who are adept at handling a

1:02:211:02:27

gun and it is called concealed carry

more wary teacher would have a

1:02:271:02:31

concealed gun on them -- where a

teacher.

1:02:311:02:39

We'll be speaking to two

survivors of the Florida

1:02:391:02:41

high school attack

to get their views

1:02:411:02:43

on the President's idea.

1:02:431:02:45

Also this morning, people

convicted of offences linked

1:02:451:02:49

to domestic abuse are more likely

to be jailed under new guidelines

1:02:491:02:52

for courts in England and Wales.

1:02:521:02:53

After two more fatal stabbings

of young men in London,

1:02:531:02:56

there's a call for more to be done

to take knives off the streets.

1:02:561:03:04

It's very hard when you see more

kids out there losing their life the

1:03:041:03:08

same way, and nothing has changed in

the last year. It is getting a lot

1:03:081:03:11

worse out there. It's hard to get

over my son's death, but nothing is

1:03:111:03:17

being done about it.

1:03:171:03:27

Scientists say they have settled one

of medicine's biggest debates as a

1:03:301:03:33

huge study...

1:03:331:03:35

It would help if I had a microphone,

wouldn't it? Apologies for that.

1:03:371:03:44

There we are. Hopefully you can hear

me now. Scientists say they have

1:03:441:03:48

settled one of medicine's biggest

debates after huge study concluded

1:03:481:03:53

that antidepressants do work. The

research found common

1:03:531:03:57

antidepressants were more effective

at reducing symptoms of depression

1:03:571:04:01

than dummy pills. Giving teachers

guns could help prevent further

1:04:011:04:05

school shootings in the US, that's

the message from President from. He

1:04:051:04:18

also called for more background

checks on people's dying -- buying

1:04:181:04:22

guns. The UN Security Council will

vote on a draft resolution later

1:04:221:04:25

demanding a month-long ceasefire in

Syria. The report suggest more than

1:04:251:04:32

300 people have been killed in the

Eastern Ghouta area near Damascus

1:04:321:04:36

since Sunday. The UN Secretary

General described the situation in

1:04:361:04:40

the rebel enclave as hell on earth.

1:04:401:04:43

Theresa May will seek to overcome

differences on Brexit

1:04:431:04:47

among her senior ministers today.

1:04:471:04:48

She'll be chairing a meeting

at Chequers intended to hammer out

1:04:481:04:51

the cabinet's position on future

relations with the EU.

1:04:511:04:54

Net migration, the difference

between people coming to the UK

1:04:541:04:57

for a year or more and the number

of people emigrating from Britain,

1:04:571:05:00

has fallen in the year

to last September.

1:05:001:05:07

New figures show net migration

dropped by 29,000 down to 240 4000.

1:05:071:05:14

It's the second set of data

released by the Office

1:05:141:05:17

for National Statistics

since the 2016 EU referendum.

1:05:171:05:23

Centrica, the owner of British Gas,

said it would cut 4000 jobs over the

1:05:231:05:27

next two years. This morning, the

company, which employs around 33,000

1:05:271:05:32

people, announced a big fall in

profits and said that British Gas

1:05:321:05:36

had lost nearly 10% of its UK

domestic customers last year. People

1:05:361:05:43

convicted of domestic abuse offences

in both England and Wales will be

1:05:431:05:46

more likely to go to prison under

new sentencing guidelines. The first

1:05:461:05:50

time, the guidance will say domestic

offences should be treated more

1:05:501:05:55

seriously than similar crimes which

don't involve family members or

1:05:551:05:58

partners. The new guidance will also

extend domestic abuse to include

1:05:581:06:04

threats on social media.

1:06:041:06:07

A month of strikes affecting 64 UK

universities and a million

1:06:071:06:10

students begins today.

1:06:101:06:13

Lecturers are walking out over

changes to their pensions,

1:06:131:06:21

which they say could leave them

up to £10,000 a year

1:06:211:06:24

worse off in retirement.

1:06:241:06:25

Their employer, Universities UK,

says the pension scheme has

1:06:251:06:27

a 6 billion pound deficit

which can't be ignored.

1:06:271:06:29

Grime artist Stormzy picked up

the award for best British male

1:06:291:06:32

at the Brits last night,

and had a strong message

1:06:321:06:35

in his performance.

1:06:351:06:36

# Yo ,Theresa May where's

the money for Grenfell?

1:06:361:06:38

# What, you thought we just

forgot about Grenfell?

1:06:381:06:43

Stormzy also won the award

1:06:431:06:44

for best British album,

while the singer, Dua Lipa,

1:06:441:06:46

scooped Best British Female,

as well as the breakthrough award

1:06:461:06:51

That's a summary of

the latest BBC News.

1:06:511:06:53

More at 10.30.

1:06:531:06:57

This e-mail from Peter is about

knife crime and our conversation

1:06:571:07:01

earlier. Very simple to treat the

increase in knife crime, a three up

1:07:011:07:08

to five year jail sentence for

carrying a knife. It worked for

1:07:081:07:11

handguns. There is no reason for

anyone to have a knife unless you

1:07:111:07:14

are a chef on the way to work. Jane

says, based on how many knife crimes

1:07:141:07:18

have occurred during this week, it

is appalling and horrifying.

1:07:181:07:24

Unfortunately -- unfortunately

things are not improving. Ray says

1:07:241:07:28

we let children play video games

where the object is to kill the

1:07:281:07:31

enemy by whatever means possible and

then they want to think this is the

1:07:311:07:34

way to survive the streets. Do keep

those coming in, especially if you

1:07:341:07:39

have personal relative experience.

You will be charged standard network

1:07:391:07:44

rate.

1:07:441:07:46

Here's some sport now with Hugh.

1:07:461:07:48

The Team GB men could not match the

women by reaching the semifinals of

1:07:481:07:51

the curling competition at the

Winter Olympics in South Korea. They

1:07:511:07:55

had one last chance to survive,

play-off against Switzerland but

1:07:551:07:59

they were beaten 9-5 despite being

ahead with just two ends to play.

1:07:591:08:03

The Swiss did something you don't

see too often, scoring a 5-point

1:08:031:08:07

stone in the end to advance.

Disappointment for Team GB and a

1:08:071:08:12

medal hope gone after taking a

silver in the event four years ago.

1:08:121:08:17

We came in the first Olympics and

gave it our best shot and we made

1:08:171:08:22

the play-offs but in the end we had

a good game today but it was not to

1:08:221:08:26

be, sadly. A couple of things did

not go our way, a couple of half

1:08:261:08:31

shots, and that's all it takes

against a team as good as them so

1:08:311:08:35

there is plenty to look forward to

going forward and we just need to

1:08:351:08:38

take some time and reflect on this

experience and what we can take from

1:08:381:08:42

it.

There was some positive news for

Dave Riding who finished ninth in

1:08:421:08:48

the men's slalom and vowed to come

back and challenge for a medal in

1:08:481:08:52

Beijing in four years' time. He

believes he can return to do the

1:08:521:08:55

same as today's gold medallist and

perform to a gold medal standard at

1:08:551:09:00

the age of 35. There was a tense

finish to the women's ice hockey

1:09:001:09:05

final as the US won a dramatic

penalty shoot out in the women's

1:09:051:09:09

final, taking gold to stop Canada

from taking their fifth straight

1:09:091:09:13

title. The US keeper was the hero,

sparking wild American celebrations.

1:09:131:09:21

Very much the opposite today for one

Russian colour. He won a mixed

1:09:211:09:26

doubles bronze medal in the curling

alongside his wife but was stripped

1:09:261:09:30

of his medal after admitted to

doping. That will be a great story

1:09:301:09:40

for the IOC for the Russian sporting

officials -- that won't be. Away

1:09:401:09:51

from South Korea, Eddie Jones has

made one change to his starting 15

1:09:511:09:53

for the six Nations meeting with

Scotland at Murrayfield. Nathan

1:09:531:09:58

Hughes will make his first

appearance in the competition

1:09:581:10:03

replacing Sam Simmons in the back

row. Joe Mahler comes in on the

1:10:031:10:08

bench having missed the opening two

matches through suspension. That's

1:10:081:10:14

all the sport for now.

Antidepressants are affective and

1:10:141:10:21

many more people in the UK could

benefit from taking them according

1:10:211:10:26

to a major study. The analysis of 21

common antidepressants published in

1:10:261:10:34

the Lancet magazine showed they were

better at reducing symptoms than

1:10:341:10:36

dummy pills. We can talk to the

author of today's report, and also

1:10:361:10:45

with as is Carmina from the Society

of psychiatrist, and Steve Cullen is

1:10:451:10:52

with us, who used to take

antidepressants.

1:10:521:10:57

I will talk to first, if I may, you

are behind this study. Tell us what

1:10:571:11:02

you have discovered.

The

long-standing question was about

1:11:021:11:10

whether antidepressants work for

people with major depression and it

1:11:101:11:17

took six years to collect all

available evidence but now we can

1:11:171:11:21

say that antidepressants are

effective for moderate to severe

1:11:211:11:27

depression in adults. This is good

news for parents, carers and

1:11:271:11:34

clinicians.

How did you reach this

conclusion?

We analysed all

1:11:341:11:38

available data and when I say all

available data, it's not just the

1:11:381:11:42

published reports and studies, which

tends to be overinflated in terms of

1:11:421:11:48

the evidence in favour of drugs, but

we collected 52% of the data in the

1:11:481:11:54

analysis from unpublished data, so

this gives us the idea of how robust

1:11:541:11:59

is the evidence we found and we

compared all of the treatments with

1:11:591:12:06

quite an innovative methodology, so

we are able to compare all of the

1:12:061:12:13

treatments in the network one

against the other.

You found some

1:12:131:12:18

antidepressants were more effective

than others.

Among the

1:12:181:12:22

antidepressants, they are not

created equally, so some are more

1:12:221:12:26

effective and others are more

acceptable to patients.

But

1:12:261:12:29

effectively you are saying that

because of this, more people could

1:12:291:12:34

benefit from antidepressants.

Definitely. We know that a

1:12:341:12:39

prescription of antidepressants is a

tricky issue because they should

1:12:391:12:42

probably not be described to people

with mild depression, so there is a

1:12:421:12:47

risk of overs per -- prescribing

which still exists but it's more

1:12:471:12:52

important to treat people who can

benefit from this intervention, so

1:12:521:12:59

antidepressants RA tool that can be

used in clinical practice for other

1:12:591:13:03

treatments that are proven

effective.

In England alone, in

1:13:031:13:12

2016, there were 64 point 7 million

prescriptions for antidepressants.

1:13:121:13:19

The conclusion of this study is that

there should be more because people

1:13:191:13:22

can benefit.

We know that most

people with depression are not

1:13:221:13:26

currently seeking help, maybe only

one in five or one in six who suffer

1:13:261:13:32

from clinically significant

depression, people that because of

1:13:321:13:36

depression their life is impaired

but they don't seek help to get the

1:13:361:13:41

antidepressants. If we can help them

more we should prescribe more

1:13:411:13:48

antidepressants but we have to be

careful and make sure we only

1:13:481:13:50

prescribe them to people who really

need them.

As far as you are

1:13:501:13:56

concerned is this study good news?

Does it settle the debate about

1:13:561:14:01

whether antidepressants really are

effective or not?

It does.

You

1:14:011:14:06

probably thought that anyway, but

everybody else?

Absolutely. Over the

1:14:061:14:11

last ten years there has been some

controversy in the field and most

1:14:111:14:15

psychiatrists and mental health

practitioners would trust that

1:14:151:14:18

antidepressants are beneficial, but

there is some controversy within the

1:14:181:14:26

field, and I think this now puts the

controversy to bed, which is

1:14:261:14:29

important. You can be a patient who

wants to be on antidepressants in

1:14:291:14:36

the future and these are safe and

effective medications and we can

1:14:361:14:40

also understand more and move on to

the more important questions. Why

1:14:401:14:44

some antidepressants were better

than others, and what can we do for

1:14:441:14:47

people who do not benefit from them?

We have 21 drugs mentioned in the

1:14:471:14:52

study yet some people don't benefit

from any of them, so how can we help

1:14:521:14:56

those people?

We will talk to Steve

and David, both of whom have used

1:14:561:15:04

antique depressants. Steve, how did

they affect you? -- antidepressants.

1:15:041:15:11

The important thing with

antidepressants is getting the right

1:15:111:15:14

medication for each individual. What

works for one person won't

1:15:141:15:19

necessarily work for the next

person. And also with taking

1:15:191:15:24

antidepressants, you need a network

around you, whether it's a support

1:15:241:15:29

group, family members, and it's OK

taking medication but if you've not

1:15:291:15:35

got that support network around you

it won't work effectively. And vice

1:15:351:15:40

versa. If you've got the social

network around you but no

1:15:401:15:46

medication, that's not going to

work. So you need to balance both.

1:15:461:15:52

That's to get the maximum effect.

That is what has happened to me, and

1:15:521:15:58

when I first started taking the

antidepressants many years ago there

1:15:581:16:06

wasn't anything that works for me

and it took awhile to get the right

1:16:061:16:09

medication, by which time I had

accessed a support group in the

1:16:091:16:16

community, users group based in

Eccles which was set up by a group

1:16:161:16:22

of volunteers many years ago to help

people with mental health issues,

1:16:221:16:31

depression, schizophrenia, bipolar

disorder and you can all talk about

1:16:311:16:33

your experiences.

1:16:331:16:37

Let me bring in Southee from Mind --

Sophie. It's not just about people

1:16:371:16:49

managing acute depression, it's not

just about antidepressants.

1:16:491:16:55

managing acute depression, it's not

just about antidepressants.

No, it's

1:16:561:17:00

not. I don't think that the advice

would change, the first line of

1:17:001:17:05

treatment would be exercise,

talking, as the August suggests, I

1:17:051:17:11

think all of those sorts of things

and even for severe depression

1:17:111:17:16

alongside antidepressants and is

good too but those things in place.

1:17:161:17:21

For many people, taking

antidepressants really helps to lift

1:17:211:17:23

them up enough so that they can

begin to engage in some of those

1:17:231:17:28

other things as well and then the

combination of those things can be

1:17:281:17:32

what really helps someone to

recover.

David, hello, thank you for

1:17:321:17:37

talking to us. Tell us about your

experience.

I used the bills to

1:17:371:17:44

treat people. I haven't taken them

used them to treat a mood disorder.

1:17:441:17:52

My concern with the paper is that it

is based on ghost written articles

1:17:521:17:57

to which, and we don't have access

to the data behind these articles so

1:17:571:18:01

the findings to a degree, there's an

element of garbage in and garbage

1:18:011:18:06

out. We know that a great number of

the trials in this area have

1:18:061:18:11

overhyped the benefits we might get

from these pills and hidden the hard

1:18:111:18:16

things. From the point of view of

using these pills and treatments

1:18:161:18:22

like ECT to treat people who are

severely depressed, the thing for me

1:18:221:18:27

is getting a clear picture of what

the harms can be. Because a great

1:18:271:18:30

number of these pills, they are not

placebos, it's not like they do

1:18:301:18:37

nothing. They work in the way that

alcohol works, they have a kind of

1:18:371:18:42

tranquillising effect. The question

really is, to I want people on these

1:18:421:18:46

drugs long-term and if I am going to

treat them they need to know what

1:18:461:18:49

the risks are. They shouldn't have

the benefits of and the risks

1:18:491:18:55

concealed. Nor the patients that I

treat nor the doctors using the

1:18:551:19:00

bills should be put in that

position.

Let me get some reaction

1:19:001:19:06

to what you are saying.

Definitely,

there needs to be a balance between

1:19:061:19:13

benefits and side effects and risks.

The aim of this project was pretty

1:19:131:19:18

narrow because we wanted to answer a

specific question and we are using

1:19:181:19:23

the same dataset to answer the same

question so in parallel we are also

1:19:231:19:30

doing an analysis about long-term

treatment of depression, so to give

1:19:301:19:33

the full picture to patients and

clinicians. And I agree with Steve

1:19:331:19:38

that what we need to do now is

individualised treatment and having

1:19:381:19:44

access to individual data from the

studies would be the way to go. At

1:19:441:19:48

the moment we have aggregates data,

these averages, and we are very

1:19:481:19:53

aware of this programme and this is

why it took such a long time to have

1:19:531:19:59

access to the unpublished data. And

as reported in the paper, we gave

1:19:591:20:05

priority to the unpublished report

exactly because of what the

1:20:051:20:09

professor is saying, we know that

sometimes, or often in many cases,

1:20:091:20:13

there might be the published report

which is misleading.

OK. Neville has

1:20:131:20:19

e-mailed to say, I take pills, and

before taking them I was scared to

1:20:191:20:28

go out the door, I would be shaking

while getting on the bus. The pills

1:20:281:20:33

have helped me a lot, I still have

panic attacks if bad things happen

1:20:331:20:37

but I can go out and if everything

goes as planned and I don't have a

1:20:371:20:41

problem. And Lewis says, my mother

was addicted to antidepressants for

1:20:411:20:48

decades and ended up effectually

tortured by them. A brief word about

1:20:481:20:54

addiction?

Addiction is a tricky

word because it has a very specific

1:20:541:20:57

meaning. Many people find it very,

very difficult to come off

1:20:571:21:03

antidepressants. That is one

side-effect. Professor Healy has

1:21:031:21:07

done a lot of work on that as well.

Different antidepressants can be

1:21:071:21:12

harder to come off than others, some

find them harder to come off than

1:21:121:21:15

other people. People can have this

impact where, trying to come off

1:21:151:21:20

them you have to take that process

just like dealing with an addiction.

1:21:201:21:26

So there are side effects and it is

worth talking to all those

1:21:261:21:31

implications with your doctor when

you decide to take antidepressants.

1:21:311:21:35

Really quickly.

It can become a

chronic disorder so some of these

1:21:351:21:42

people cannot stop because they

would fall ill again.

1:21:421:21:48

Antidepressants are not addictive

but the problem is the withdrawal

1:21:481:21:55

symptoms if they stopped abruptly.

Thank you, thank you all of you.

1:21:551:21:59

President Trump says teachers

carrying guns could stop mass

1:21:591:22:04

shootings in US schools.

1:22:041:22:05

A week on from the massacre

of 17 young students

1:22:051:22:08

at a high school in Florida,

the President was holding

1:22:081:22:10

an emotional meeting with students,

teacherS and parents.

1:22:101:22:12

Meanwhle, the pressure is mounting -

particularly from young people -

1:22:121:22:15

for America to address

its gun violence problem.

1:22:151:22:17

During the meeting,

the President held this note

1:22:171:22:19

in his hand which had five points

written down, with the fifth

1:22:191:22:24

saying "I hear you".

1:22:241:22:26

But is his "listening

session" enough?

1:22:261:22:36

Many of the students who survived

last week's attack at Parkland say

1:22:371:22:40

they would love to tell

the president what they think -

1:22:401:22:42

but that they have not been

given the opportunity.

1:22:421:22:44

Here's what the President

has said overnight.

1:22:441:22:46

It works when you have people very

adept at using firearms, of which

1:22:461:22:49

you have many. And it would be

teachers and coaches, if the coach

1:22:491:22:54

had a firearm in his locker when he

ran at this guy, the coach was very

1:22:541:22:59

brave, saved a lot of lives, I

suspect. But if he had had a firearm

1:22:591:23:05

he wouldn't have run, he would have

shot him and this would've been the

1:23:051:23:08

end of it. This would only be,

obviously, for people very adept at

1:23:081:23:13

handling a gun. And it would be, it

is called concealed carry, where

1:23:131:23:17

teacher would have a concealed gun

on them. They would go for special

1:23:171:23:24

training and they would be there and

you would no longer have a gun free

1:23:241:23:27

zone. Gun free zone to a maniac

because they are all cowards, a gun

1:23:271:23:34

free zone is, let's go in and let's

attack.

It does not even feel like a

1:23:341:23:41

week. Time has stood still, to feel

like this, ever, I can't, I can't

1:23:411:23:48

feel comfortable in my country,

knowing that people have, will have,

1:23:481:23:55

ever going to feel like this. I want

to feel safe at school, senior year

1:23:551:24:04

and junior year of big ears, when I

turned my academics around, started

1:24:041:24:09

connecting with teachers and started

actually enjoying school. And now I

1:24:091:24:15

don't know how I'm ever going to set

foot in that place again.

I am very

1:24:151:24:21

angry that this happened because it

keeps happening. Mine in 11 happened

1:24:211:24:25

once and they fixed everything. How

many schools, how many children have

1:24:251:24:31

to get shot? It stops here with this

administration and me. I'm not going

1:24:311:24:37

to sleep until it is fixed. And Mr

President, we are going to fix it.

1:24:371:24:43

I'm going to fix it. I'm not going

to rest.

1:24:431:24:56

And I am kissed. Because my

daughter, she's not here, I'm not

1:25:021:25:06

going to see her again.

We are going

to do with strong checks on

1:25:061:25:10

everyone, most of the governors are

coming in from another state, we are

1:25:101:25:14

going to have serious talks about

what is going on with school safety.

1:25:141:25:19

Very important. We are going to

cover any deliberate every aspect of

1:25:191:25:23

it, there are many ideas I have,

many ideas other people have, we are

1:25:231:25:27

going to big out the strongest

ideas, the most important ideas that

1:25:271:25:30

work, we're going to get them done.

1:25:301:25:39

Lets

1:25:391:25:49

talk to Diego Pfeiller. Involved

with the Never Again campaign said

1:25:581:26:07

by students in the wake of the

parkland massacre and schoolmate

1:26:071:26:11

Ashley, who as we heard on Monday

hid from the gunman. Diego Godin

1:26:111:26:16

you've become a very prominent

campaigner, why we are not invited

1:26:161:26:20

to meet the president?

We were

sceptical of the session because we

1:26:201:26:24

want our views to be that as well.

We invited the president to our own

1:26:241:26:32

event, it was four hours later and

he was absolutely invited and we

1:26:321:26:38

wanted to talk to him, we understand

that you can change the world for

1:26:381:26:42

the better, we want to speak to him.

As for our personal invitation, we

1:26:421:26:47

did not get it.

Ashley, you are not

invited either, what do you think of

1:26:471:26:51

the suggestion that teachers armed

with guns could stop future attacks?

1:26:511:27:00

I personally do not agree with that

viewpoint. An analogy was said by

1:27:001:27:04

one of my classmates that if you, if

there is a child who is hurting

1:27:041:27:09

other children in the playground

with a rock are we supposed to give

1:27:091:27:12

all of the other children on the

playground a rock to protect

1:27:121:27:16

themselves? No. Because it will end

up with more children getting hurt

1:27:161:27:22

with rocks. I feel this is apt when

we talk about arming teachers with

1:27:221:27:31

guns because there are just too many

loopholes for there to be one

1:27:311:27:35

specific answer when it comes to

something like this.

Andy Parker,

1:27:351:27:40

President Trump said, if you had a

teacher adept at handling firearms

1:27:401:27:45

they could well end the attack very

quickly. What do you think.

Well,

1:27:451:27:52

foreperson bet on a daily basis says

stupid things, that ranks right up

1:27:521:27:56

there. That just nuts. -- for a

person who, on a daily basis, says

1:27:561:28:05

stupid things. It makes no sense. As

one of the teachers said last night,

1:28:051:28:11

I'm supposed to teach and then

supposed to be law enforcement? How

1:28:111:28:15

does that work? And this was

somebody who voted for Trump.

We can

1:28:151:28:20

see a photograph of Alison behind

you, she was killed when she was

1:28:201:28:24

doing her job as a reporter. What

needs to happen to prevent future

1:28:241:28:28

tragedies?

A number of things, not

just one thing that needs to happen,

1:28:281:28:37

simple things that we can affect

that can save lives. Nothing is 100%

1:28:371:28:43

sure. And I was listening earlier to

your programme, how I wish we were

1:28:431:28:50

having a debate about knives in this

country as opposed to guns. You do

1:28:501:28:56

universal background checks you ban

assault weapons, you put a limit on

1:28:561:28:59

these magazines. Three simple things

that you can do to save lives. And

1:28:591:29:08

you can do that, and still keep the

second amendment intact.

Diego, Mr

1:29:081:29:19

Trump is doing some things, he has

ordered his administration to take

1:29:191:29:25

steps to ban the bumper stocks,

those accessories that mean that

1:29:251:29:29

guns can fire hundreds of friends in

minutes, as used by the gunman in

1:29:291:29:33

Las Vegas, said he is doing

something.

I'm happy that he's doing

1:29:331:29:37

something, I've said it before and

will say it again, any steps in the

1:29:371:29:42

right direction are good but they

are only first steps. We want a

1:29:421:29:46

little more to come from our

national government. In Tallahassee

1:29:461:29:51

and talked with many of the senators

and Representatives and they were

1:29:511:29:55

very open to some of our great

ideas. That includes gun safety as

1:29:551:30:00

well as mental health and school

safety. On this specific topic, we

1:30:001:30:06

talked about the marshal programme

where they will teach teachers to

1:30:061:30:17

shoot and none of the students

present like that idea because

1:30:171:30:21

fighting guns with more guns is just

going to get more bullets in the

1:30:211:30:25

air, as Ashley said.

Lawmakers in

Florida said they would consider

1:30:251:30:34

raising the minimum age to buy

assault rifles like the one that the

1:30:341:30:38

police say was used in the shooting

last week, they rejected a proposal

1:30:381:30:47

to even debate banning such weapons.

Diego, we are there?

Yes, we talked

1:30:471:30:57

about that. It was a political

stunt.

1:30:571:31:08

On that specific...

Just a minute,

Diego, they rejected this in front

1:31:091:31:14

of you, in front of other

survivors...

Supposedly yes, MST

1:31:141:31:20

students were there, we were on the

bus up there, that is when we heard

1:31:201:31:26

the news.

How do you react to the

fact that they won't even debate

1:31:261:31:31

banning arms?

Specifically on that

bill they were talking about assault

1:31:311:31:33

rifles. Be a 15, the one everyone is

most adamant about taking off the

1:31:331:31:41

market, that wasn't even included in

the bill. -- the AR 15. If you ban

1:31:411:31:52

is specific gun, they will just come

up with a slightly bigger one or a

1:31:521:31:56

slightly smaller one and sell that.

It doesn't solve the problem. I can

1:31:561:32:01

understand why lawmakers rejected

that idea. However I am very

1:32:011:32:04

disappointed that the people who

brought that up and decided to make

1:32:041:32:08

that a political stunt, to try to

Dulin our voices by issuing such

1:32:081:32:15

legislator at the time when they

did.

1:32:151:32:23

Do you think this genuinely is a

tipping point? After all, we have

1:32:231:32:28

heard anger and outrage after many

previous mass shootings at schools

1:32:281:32:31

in the US.

I think it is a tipping

point and I think that tipping point

1:32:311:32:41

was the election in Virginia this

past November. The gun issue was the

1:32:411:32:45

number to issue for voters in

Virginia and they routed the

1:32:451:32:51

Republicans in the house of

delegates. So I think that was sort

1:32:511:32:57

of the first wave that is coming

this fall and there's not going to

1:32:571:33:04

be any movement from Republican

lawmakers anywhere across the

1:33:041:33:06

country. Maybe small steps. I was

sitting in a committee and I

1:33:061:33:13

testified before a committee in

Virginia, and I watched this young

1:33:131:33:20

woman who survived Las Vegas

tearfully asking that the Virginia

1:33:201:33:29

Senate represent bumper stocks, but

they said sorry they wouldn't do

1:33:291:33:32

that gone stocks. Until we kick

these guys to the curb, nothing will

1:33:321:33:43

happen until it gets done in the

fall.

Andy Barker, whose daughter

1:33:431:33:50

Alison Parker, whose daughter was

shot dead during a live interview --

1:33:501:33:53

Andy Parker. And we also talked to

Ashley from the school in Parkland,

1:33:531:34:04

she was on the programme earlier

this week and she was back again

1:34:041:34:07

today. Thank you. We'll be speaking

to one Briton's most accessible

1:34:071:34:16

YouTube stars about how he got 4

million viewers. And also people

1:34:161:34:22

convicted of offences linked to

domestic abuse are more likely to be

1:34:221:34:25

jailed under new guidelines for

judges. We will be speaking to a

1:34:251:34:29

survivor of domestic abuse.

1:34:291:34:30

Time for the latest news -

here's Rachel Schofield

1:34:381:34:41

Scientists say they have settled one

of medicine's biggest debates

1:34:411:34:44

after a huge study has concluded

that anti-depressants do work.

1:34:441:34:46

The research found common

anti-depressants were all more

1:34:461:34:48

effective at reducing symptoms

of depression than dummy pills.

1:34:481:34:56

Theresa May will seek to overcome

differences on Brexit

1:34:561:35:01

among her senior ministers today.

1:35:011:35:02

She'll be chairing a meeting

at Chequers intended to hammer out

1:35:021:35:05

the cabinet's position on future

relations with the EU.

1:35:051:35:08

Net migration - the difference

between people coming to the UK

1:35:081:35:11

for a year or more and the number

of people emigrating from Britain -

1:35:111:35:14

has fallen in the year

to last September.

1:35:141:35:16

New figures show net

migration dropped by 29,000

1:35:161:35:22

to 244,000.

1:35:221:35:23

It's the second set of data

released by the Office

1:35:231:35:26

for National Statistics

since the 2016 EU referendum.

1:35:261:35:36

Now the sport with Hugh.

1:35:361:35:40

Team GB's men could not replicate

the women and make the semifinals of

1:35:401:35:44

the curling at the Winter Olympics

in South Korea, losing 9-5 in their

1:35:441:35:48

play-off, failing to reach the final

meaning Team GB lose one of their

1:35:481:35:53

medal hopes after they took silver

four years ago. Dave Riding has

1:35:531:35:57

vowed to challenge her a medal in

four years' time after he finished

1:35:571:36:01

ninth in the men's slalom earlier.

Meanwhile the Russian curler has

1:36:011:36:06

been stripped of his bronze medal

from the mixed curling after being

1:36:061:36:09

found guilty of doping. Finally,

Nathan Hughes will start at number

1:36:091:36:13

eight for England in the six Nations

clash with Scotland. He replaces the

1:36:131:36:19

injured Sam Simmons. Joe Marling is

back on the bench after suspension.

1:36:191:36:23

More sport after 11.

1:36:231:36:27

Theresa May is meeting her senior

ministers at Chequers later today

1:36:271:36:29

to thrash out the cabinet's position

on future relations with the EU.

1:36:291:36:34

Over now to our political

guru, Norman Smith.

1:36:341:36:36

I can imagine this could be

a very long meeting.

1:36:361:36:42

Is today the day? It is meant to be

the day. And you have probably heard

1:36:421:36:47

of the three Bears, and the three

Musketeers, and you might have heard

1:36:471:36:53

of the three tenors. Today I bring

you the three Baskett 's, this is

1:36:531:37:00

the master plan for getting

squabbling cabinet ministers to

1:37:001:37:02

agree and also to get EU leaders to

agree to us to still have access to

1:37:021:37:11

the single market without border

controls and checks and tariffs and

1:37:111:37:16

all that sort of thing. The thinking

is that in each of the Baskett 's

1:37:161:37:22

par-3 bundles of goodies that we

hope the EU will take a look at and

1:37:221:37:26

say, OK, you can trade with us on

the same terms as you do -- in each

1:37:261:37:33

of the baskets there are bundles.

Let's look at the first basket. This

1:37:331:37:39

contains EU rules. These are rules

and regulations which we are kind of

1:37:391:37:44

happy with, that we are co--- OK

with the EU rules and we will go

1:37:441:37:50

along with them, so that's not very

controversial. Taking a look in the

1:37:501:37:57

second basket, this is EU light

rules. These are the sort of

1:37:571:38:03

standards and protections that where

we have the same sort of objections

1:38:031:38:12

but we would like to implement that

with our own rules. That sort of

1:38:121:38:20

halfway house that the EU might be

OK with is that, but in the third

1:38:201:38:25

basket our UK rules on their own.

1:38:251:38:36

With our own objectives, our own

aims, we are going to diverged and

1:38:371:38:41

do things in the single market that

way. That is much more problematic

1:38:411:38:45

for EU leaders. Already there are

signs emerging from Brussels that

1:38:451:38:50

they will say no to that particular

basket. That is the difficulty here.

1:38:501:38:58

Theresa May has to get agreement

amongst the squabbling Cabinet

1:38:581:39:05

members and the rumours are the

meeting could go on till ten o'clock

1:39:051:39:08

tonight, but she also has to get the

EU to agree with whatever she

1:39:081:39:11

manages to get her ministers to

agree to. So there is still an

1:39:111:39:15

awfully long way to go, I'm afraid.

Thank you, Norman. And we will

1:39:151:39:21

report back when the meeting is

over. We know you can get paid

1:39:211:39:26

serious amounts of money if you

played football for a living but

1:39:261:39:29

what about getting money to play in

your back garden and load it to the

1:39:291:39:33

Internet. Chris is one of the most

successful YouTube stars in the UK,

1:39:331:39:41

and he uploads videos of himself

having a kickabout and has

1:39:411:39:45

interviewed top footballers,

including Ronaldo. He has now

1:39:451:39:49

written a book called frills, skills

and more pills.

How you, Chris? I'm

1:39:491:39:54

good. How EU?

People want to know

how you got into going onto YouTube

1:39:541:40:02

and how do you make your money?

It

started as a hobby. Like a lot of

1:40:021:40:07

people it just started you do at

school and it was when I probably

1:40:071:40:12

should have been going to parties

and things like that but I started

1:40:121:40:15

off filming my goals as I used to

play a lot on Fifa, and the

1:40:151:40:24

community grew from there with

people commentating over it and it

1:40:241:40:28

just sort of grew from there and

then I went into football, I enjoyed

1:40:281:40:31

a lot which more and I tend to do

more of that these days and pretty

1:40:311:40:37

much, if you get the views on the

videos then the ads on YouTube

1:40:371:40:44

videos, at the start, during, the

end, you get a tiny fraction of 8p

1:40:441:40:48

for every view -- of a penny for

every view. And if there are enough,

1:40:481:40:55

you can make it into a real job.

So

it is each of you?

I'd sat down and

1:40:551:41:02

worked it out, and I'm -- I was

doing this on a slow Tuesday. It was

1:41:021:41:11

a fraction of a penny. If you get

enough, like I said, you can make it

1:41:111:41:16

a job.

We have been watching some

videos involving your sister and I

1:41:161:41:20

don't know if it's the guy with

ginger hair, is he a relative?

Is my

1:41:201:41:25

cousin.

Your cousin. Perfect. You

turn down a place at university to

1:41:251:41:32

study to be a vet and at that stage

a think you only had a subscribers.

1:41:321:41:37

So not enough to make a career --

139 subscribers. Was that a big

1:41:371:41:44

gamble?

I think I had a at the time,

so it wasn't too much of a gamble. I

1:41:441:41:54

was planning to be a vet -- I had a

at the time.

1:41:541:42:01

It was a big gamble. Luckily my

parents were behind enough will

1:42:021:42:18

stop instead of telling me to get

off the computer console it was to

1:42:191:42:24

come back inside and get on it. I

think I got about 700,000, not that

1:42:241:42:37

I keep track of them. It went very

well for me.

Earlier this month,

1:42:371:42:47

YouTube Stennett would start

labelling videos made by

1:42:471:42:50

state-sponsored broadcast to crack

down on propaganda -- said it would

1:42:501:42:54

start. Obviously that's not an area

for you, but it is an area for

1:42:541:42:59

beyond news because so much on

YouTube is essentially advertising

1:42:591:43:03

conceal that something else. How

aware of you are that when you put

1:43:031:43:07

out your videos?

Whereof what,

sorry?

Whereof effectively

1:43:071:43:16

advertising, merchandise, product

placement, but making it look like

1:43:161:43:18

something else?

Yes, so you have to

make it clear that you have an ad

1:43:181:43:26

placement in your videos. It was

something I was made aware of

1:43:261:43:30

because you get brand deals and they

will say here is an amount of money.

1:43:301:43:39

Here is an app we would like to

promote, and generally you will look

1:43:391:43:44

at it and say yes or no and you see

that as a good one. Some people

1:43:441:43:52

might not, but personally I do. It's

something that legally you have to

1:43:521:43:57

make it clear these days, like

Instagram, that has a caption where

1:43:571:44:02

you have to say if it is a paid

partnership, if you are wearing a

1:44:021:44:06

watch or something. It's definitely

something that is really important

1:44:061:44:13

and it is illegal thing to do that

now. A couple of people have been

1:44:131:44:18

caught up having maybe a Coke can in

the background and you did not

1:44:181:44:23

mention it but it was that the whole

video and they were paying you a

1:44:231:44:27

certain amount of money, it's a bit

dodgy. You definitely have to be

1:44:271:44:31

careful about it and make it very

clear. And that is something that is

1:44:311:44:37

becoming more and more clear in how

important it is. You are aware of

1:44:371:44:42

your responsibility because so many

young kids, boys in particular

1:44:421:44:46

subscriber and watch your staff. I

think it is something you realise

1:44:461:44:53

more and more as you gain

subscribers and views and when you

1:44:531:44:56

meet people in real life especially

as you Tube, what I do is very much

1:44:561:45:02

about myself and my personality in

real-life, so people see you as more

1:45:021:45:08

of a friend and someone they know in

real life instead of a character and

1:45:081:45:15

many people on you Tube are

different in real life but I'm quite

1:45:151:45:19

similar. People look up to that is

the norm much more if you do

1:45:191:45:26

stopping videos just because you

have a camera in your bedroom and

1:45:261:45:33

whatever and you talk to people as

yourself. I think there is that

1:45:331:45:38

responsibility that people see you

more as an actual person and think,

1:45:381:45:41

that is how he acts in real-life,

and that is what he wears in

1:45:411:45:47

real-life. You become more aware of

that, certainly.

Thank you very

1:45:471:45:53

much, Chris, and good luck with the

book. Thanks for coming in. Thanks

1:45:531:45:59

for your messages on Donald Trump's

suggestion that teachers, if they

1:45:591:46:05

were armoured, could deter shootings

in US schools.

1:46:051:46:14

Federer this is from Mike Cummings

says, the ownership of guns in the

1:46:141:46:17

USA will not change, President Trump

is right, the cure for a bad guy

1:46:171:46:23

with a gun is a good guy with a gun.

Another viewers suggests, Mr Trump

1:46:231:46:29

must be receiving a lot of funding

from the NRA, what a bizarre

1:46:291:46:34

solution, imagine a teacher going

crazy and shooting a class. The

1:46:341:46:38

teachers union must be astonished at

such a suggestion. Thank you for

1:46:381:46:43

your views.

1:46:431:46:47

Tougher sentences have been

recommended for those

1:46:471:46:48

convicted of domestic abuse

in England and Wales.

1:46:481:46:51

Courts are being told to treat cases

more seriously when they involve

1:46:511:46:57

family members and domestic abuse

has also been extended to include

1:46:571:47:02

non-physical forms such as threats

and social media. Vivian suffered

1:47:021:47:06

abuse at the hands of her husband

for 14 years.

1:47:061:47:11

She's now an author and founder

of Ignite Benevolence Fund -

1:47:111:47:14

an organisation which helps

vulnerable African and Caribbean

1:47:141:47:16

women in abusive relationships.

1:47:161:47:22

Katie Ghose, Chief Executive

of the charity, Woman's Aid.

1:47:221:47:25

And in Worcester is Jill Gramann,

a magistrate and member

1:47:251:47:27

of the Sentencing Council.

1:47:271:47:29

Jill, let me begin with you, what is

the thinking behind this change in

1:47:291:47:33

the guidelines?

The last guidelines

produced by our predecessor

1:47:331:47:40

organisation were 12 years ago. They

stated that offences committed in a

1:47:401:47:45

domestic situation where no less

serious than offences committed

1:47:451:47:49

elsewhere. Now the thinking has

changed dramatically in the last 12

1:47:491:47:53

years. We are now thinking that

offences committed in the domestic

1:47:531:47:59

scenario are more serious than in

another environment.

Why?

We are

1:47:591:48:09

drawing the attention to sentences

that people who perpetrate offences

1:48:091:48:14

that occur within a domestic

environment should receive more

1:48:141:48:17

severe sentences and should also

bear in mind when looking at the

1:48:171:48:21

whole gamut of domestic abuse that

it is not domestic violence by any

1:48:211:48:26

means on its own. It can be

psychological, emotional, financial

1:48:261:48:34

exploitation and control, of, as you

have indicated, partners or other

1:48:341:48:37

family members. The consequence

would be that sentences will be more

1:48:371:48:43

severe for people who plead guilty

or are found guilty.

But why should

1:48:431:48:48

they be more serious punishments

when it occurs in a domestic

1:48:481:48:52

setting, if I can put it like that?

Within a domestic setting you have a

1:48:521:48:58

right to feel safe, to feel secure,

to trust the person that you live

1:48:581:49:02

with other people who raise you and

care for you, allegedly. Or people

1:49:021:49:08

with whom you live. The sentencing

council, for some time now, has

1:49:081:49:15

looked at breach of trust as being

an aggravated factor in a number of

1:49:151:49:20

situations. And this is the ultimate

situation where a breach of trust

1:49:201:49:24

within a family situation makes that

offence is much more serious.

Vivien

1:49:241:49:33

Rose, do you agree?

Definitely with

the breach of trust, the punishment

1:49:331:49:36

should be more serious because of

that bit of dust? I don't of the

1:49:361:49:43

punishment should be serious or if

they should act more quickly.

1:49:431:49:48

Because again you'll have to prove,

the onus is still on the proofing.

1:49:481:49:53

This is the issue. You have intimate

relationships. Because they are so

1:49:531:49:59

intimate you have to prove that what

you say is true.

Once you do that,

1:49:591:50:06

say the new guidelines, domestic

offences will be treated more

1:50:061:50:09

seriously than similar crimes not

involving family or partners because

1:50:091:50:14

of this breach of trust not normally

associated with nonfamily

1:50:141:50:18

relationships.

Because that would

bring outward control in terms of

1:50:181:50:22

people understanding the severity of

what they are doing which many

1:50:221:50:26

abusers do not understand. They

justify it.

And parts of society

1:50:261:50:31

still don't understand, do they

Katy.

That's right, domestic abuse

1:50:311:50:37

is coming out of the shadows, I am

glad Vivien that you mentioned

1:50:371:50:42

control, which is at the heart of

this matter. We have long been

1:50:421:50:46

calling for the severity of domestic

abuse to be reflected properly and

1:50:461:50:50

sentencing. In simple terms this is

what it is about, the guidelines are

1:50:501:50:55

explicitly saying, the psychological

control and abuse can be horrendous

1:50:551:51:01

and it can happen on its own or it

can happen alongside threats of

1:51:011:51:05

physical or sexual assault as well.

It is like a catch-up. It was 2006

1:51:051:51:10

when the guidelines will last looked

at. They are being updated to what

1:51:101:51:16

we now understand about the culture

of domestic abuse.

Vivien could you

1:51:161:51:24

tell our audience about the time

when you were subjected to domestic

1:51:241:51:29

abuse.

I was married, we had a

volatile relationship bed when we

1:51:291:51:36

sat down and said Wright, these are

the boundaries of how we are

1:51:361:51:40

supposed to relate. I found myself

now realising that he wasn't able to

1:51:401:51:44

stop doing what he was doing. He was

very physical. Mentor, which is that

1:51:441:51:54

they destroy your self-confidence,

who you are, whoever I had spoken

1:51:541:52:02

to, that went on for five years but

I had it. That's the wrong thing to

1:52:021:52:06

do. To isolate yourself. You have to

bring it out to people. That made it

1:52:061:52:14

worse because it put me within his

control.

It is sometimes difficult

1:52:141:52:24

because you think, if it is my

fault...

That is what I found

1:52:241:52:32

literally destroyed me emotionally

because you begin to question your

1:52:321:52:36

south, bad? Didn't actually look at

the fact that you don't deserve it.

1:52:361:52:42

. It is not to do with you. It is to

do with how someone thinks it is

1:52:421:52:48

their right to manipulate another

human being. I tell women, even as a

1:52:481:52:53

mother, I've got two children, I

still have a responsibility with how

1:52:531:52:57

I speak to them. How I relate to

them, even if I am disciplining

1:52:571:53:04

this, I still have to have respect

and honour their dignity in that and

1:53:041:53:09

that helps women to understand what

their partner should be doing to

1:53:091:53:15

them.

Thank you very much, thank you

Katie and thank you Jill from the

1:53:151:53:19

organisation that has produced these

new sentencing guidelines.

1:53:191:53:31

Thank you for your messages, many on

antidepressants suggests that they

1:53:341:53:39

do work. Carr asks, what does the

study mean, were patients tell that

1:53:391:53:44

they were better, or were patients

asked how they felt and whether they

1:53:441:53:48

found themselves to feel better,

almost always in such studies it is

1:53:481:53:54

professionals who decide that people

feel better and the views of the

1:53:541:53:56

patient are ignored.

1:53:561:53:59

The Brit Awards took place

at London's 02 Arena last night -

1:53:591:54:02

and it was a night to remember

for grime artist Stormzy

1:54:021:54:05

who stole the show -

picking up two awards

1:54:051:54:07

for Best British Male

and Best British Album,

1:54:071:54:09

beating Ed Sheeran in the processs.

1:54:091:54:10

The rapper closed the show

with an emotional performance

1:54:101:54:13

where in a freestyle verse

he criticised Theresa May's

1:54:131:54:15

response to the Grenfell Fire.

1:54:151:54:25

With me now is our entertainment

reporter Chi Chi Izundu

1:54:251:54:28

who was at the Brits last night.

1:54:281:54:29

Let's start with Stormzy, quite a

night of surprises for him. He took

1:54:291:54:35

on the best Male Solo artist award

and also the best album album of the

1:54:351:54:40

year award, a surprise for him

because he was getting ready to

1:54:401:54:47

perform, and boy did he perform.

Three things we should take from his

1:54:471:54:52

freestyle rap with to include his

criticism of Theresa May and Grennan

1:54:521:54:55

fell. He basically asked, did you

think we had forgotten about

1:54:551:55:00

Grenfell Tower is? Where is the

money that was promised to help the

1:55:001:55:04

survivors after people were killed

in the fire last year? I think we

1:55:041:55:08

have a club of his performance. -- I

think we have a clip.

1:55:081:55:22

# Yo Theresa May, where's

the money for Grenfell?

1:55:221:55:24

# What, you thought we just

forgot about Grenfell?

1:55:241:55:28

# You're criminals and you've got

the cheek to call us Savages

1:55:281:55:38

# We should burn your house down and

Seaview can manage this! #.

1:55:381:55:46

He was basically criticising the

Prime Minister and saying, you have

1:55:461:55:48

not kept any of your promises. The

other thing that is important was

1:55:481:55:53

trying to point out that artists

like him are not the folks that they

1:55:531:55:56

are portrayed as in the media. He

criticises the Daily Mail. He says

1:55:561:56:01

he is incredibly proud when he puts

on the TV and is people like

1:56:011:56:04

yourself, which feels deliberately

feels does not often happen, he

1:56:041:56:13

named the actor nominated for an

Oscar for his role in the horror

1:56:131:56:21

film Get Out. He basically recognise

that he had a platform and he was

1:56:211:56:27

going to use it to make a statement.

He also won Best album. His album

1:56:271:56:33

last year was the tenth best selling

album. Ed Sheeran sold millions and

1:56:331:56:39

millions and millions. Do we feel

sorry for Ed Sheeran? We can't come

1:56:391:56:45

living the dream.

Exactly, he's

living the dream and he has just got

1:56:451:56:49

engaged. He won the global success

award, nobody else could touch him

1:56:491:56:53

for that with his ridiculous numbers

of breaking streaming records, of

1:56:531:57:00

album sales, often touring stadiums

around the world, he is literally

1:57:001:57:04

living the dream. But and is

interesting that Stormzy won album

1:57:041:57:07

of the year because only two years

ago he did another freestyle rap

1:57:071:57:11

when he called at the Brit awards

and the fact that they were ignoring

1:57:111:57:16

crime as a music genre. So they

changed a panel of those who vote.

1:57:161:57:21

Which may have been good news for

Dua Lipa because more women are on

1:57:211:57:26

that voting panel now.

Let's

remember how these things work. In a

1:57:261:57:34

minute you get a bunch of labels

putting forward artists onto, who

1:57:341:57:39

should you pick to vote for an

award. The name of Dua Lipa keeps

1:57:391:57:44

coming up. Obviously, depending on

who she is up against, it is not as

1:57:441:57:50

simple as, there are more women so

she will get more votes, it depends

1:57:501:57:57

how many women are put forward and

who is put forward, they currently

1:57:571:58:01

relevant. She did do well, two

awards, British female Solo artist

1:58:011:58:06

and British breakthrough act, she

said it was the women. I will

1:58:061:58:09

quickly point out that all the

artists were given white roses,

1:58:091:58:13

whether they were holding one or

more opinion on any of their

1:58:131:58:17

clothes, that was the music

industry's nod to the MeToo

1:58:171:58:21

campaign. Thank you, Chi Chi. Thank

you for your company today, we'll be

1:58:211:58:29

back tomorrow at nine, BBC Newsroom

is next, live.

1:58:291:58:31

After two more teenagers are stabbed to death in London, Victoria talks to victims, campaigners and politicians to discuss how to tackle the rise in knife crime across the UK. As a report from a group of scientists claims antidepressants are effective we hear from people who have taken the medication. Victoria also speaks to survivors of domestic abuse as judges in England and Wales are told to issue tougher sentences.


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