26/02/2018 Victoria Derbyshire


26/02/2018

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Hello, it's Monday,

it's nine o'clock,

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I'm Victoria Derbyshire,

welcome to the programme.

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This morning, in a TV first,

we're broadcasting live

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from a primary school for children

who've been excluded from or can't

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be taught in mainstream education.

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It's called a pupil referral unit.

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No, no!

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Well, I did really bad stuff

like pushing on people

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and punching some people

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and sometimes kicked them.

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I don't...!

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That's Kayden.

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This morning, we'll see how

children like him are given

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the help to turn their behaviour

and their lives around.

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And we'll meet

some of their parents.

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It's hard to accept that your child

is not actually that lovable.

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Erm, so I used to say

like I love him,

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but how the hell is anyone else

going to love him or even like him?

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Almost every child here successfully

returns to mainstream school -

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so how do the teachers do it?

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The stigma is that it's a place

for naughty children.

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They're not naughty children.

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They're wonderful, bright,

intelligent, just amazing children,

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but they've made poor choices,

and that's a big, big difference.

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This morning, we've been given

incredible access to this school,

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some of its pupils,

some of their mums and dads

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and to the teachers here.

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And the reason we're here

is because we can exclusively reveal

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that there's been a big rise

in the numbers of primary school

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children being educated

in pupil referral units.

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Morning, welcome to Hawkswood

Primary Pupil Referral Unit

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in Waltham Forest,

North East London.

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We're broadcasting to you live

here all morning.

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This is where children come

when they're kicked out

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of mainstream school or in danger

of being kicked out.

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It is a pretty small screw, this is

the main corridor, the main

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thoroughfare, 40 pupils, and it is

at capacity, and this is a place

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where children come when they have

been kicked out of mainstream

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education, or where they are in

danger of being kicked out of

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mainstream education. Children as

young as four come to this pupil

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referral unit, or PRU, as it is

known. Often they children have

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emotional problems, a history of

aggressive or violent behaviour

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towards siblings, parents, teachers

and other pupils in their class. We

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have been given exclusive access to

this cool to meet the pupils and the

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staff whose job it is to turn around

of the children here. -- the school.

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As you'd expect, we very much

want your input too.

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Does your child go to

a pupil referral unit?

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Did you go to one?

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Tell us your own experience.

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We will be concentrating on PRUs

throughout the week, and tomorrow we

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will be taking your calls on this

subject. So do get in touch in the

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usual way. First, the news with

John. --

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Joanna.

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Jeremy Corbyn will set

out Labour's position

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on Brexit this morning

after months of demands

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that the party clarify its plans.

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In a speech later, he'll say the UK

should negotiate a bespoke agreement

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with the EU on a customs union,

and a strong new relationship

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with the single market.

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The Conservatives say his proposals

would breach promises made

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at the last general election.

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You can watch Mr Corbyn's

speech on this programme.

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It's expected at about 10:30.

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Four people have been killed

in an explosion in Leicester,

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which destroyed a building

in the middle of a parade of shops.

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Another four people

remain in hospital,

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one with serious injuries.

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Emergency teams are still searching

through the wreckage

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in the Hinckley Road area

of the city.

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Andy Moore reports.

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The immediate aftermath of an

explosion that destroyed a shop and

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a two storey shop above it. Police

say there were four confirmed

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fatalities and four people remain in

hospital, one with serious injuries.

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The search and rescue operation

continued overnight for any more

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victims. Police say there may be

other people and accounted for. --

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unaccounted four.

We still think

this is a rescue operation, we using

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shoring techniques to try to rescue

anyone who may be alive in the

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building.

Local people spoke about

the force of the explosion and the

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fierceness of the fire that

followed.

We heard a low explosion,

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and it felt like a tremendous shock

through the house, like it was going

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to bring the ceiling down.

I live

here, I rang the police, 999, and

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they said what services, I said

everything you can send.

Police say

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they don't know what caused the

blast, a joint investigation with

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the Fire Service will get under way

once the site has been made safe.

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There's been a big rise

in the number of primary school

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children being educated in pupil

referral units, according

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to a freedom of information

request by this programme.

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Children are referred to the units

when they've been excluded,

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or are close to being excluded,

from their mainstream school.

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Over the last four years,

a third more children in England

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are being schooled in the units.

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New legislation to cap

poor-value energy tariffs

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and save consumers money

is being introduced

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to Parliament later.

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The Government says

it will protect 11 million

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people from higher bills.

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The industry has warned the cap

could stifle competition.

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Nigeria says it's deploying

more airplanes to assist

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in the search for the girls

missing after an Islamist attack

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on their school last week.

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More than 100 girls are feared

to have been abducted

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by Boko Haram militants in Yobe

state in the northeast.

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The authorities said police

and security officials had been sent

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to schools there to deter

new attacks by the insurgents.

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Parts of the UK will feel colder

than the Arctic Circle

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this week with widespread snow

and bitterly cold winds.

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Rail companies in East Anglia

say their services

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will end early tonight.

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C2C and Greater Anglia

have also cancelled services

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on Tuesday and Wednesday.

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They urge customers

to check before travelling.

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That's a summary of

the latest BBC News.

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Now the sport with Hugh.

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Good morning.

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Manchester City have won their first

trophy under manager Pep Guardiola

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with a comfortable 3-0 win

over Arsenal.

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City captain Vincent Kompany

was on the scoresheet

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as the Premier League's runaway

leaders secured the first domestic

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title of the season.

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Afterwards, Guardiola thanked

the club for its support

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during his trophy-less first season.

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A good win too for the red

half of Manchester.

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United came from behind to beat

Chelsea 2-1 at Old Trafford

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in the Premier League.

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After Willian's opener, United

striker Romelu Lukaku

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levelled things before crossing

in for substitute Jesse Lingard

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to nod in the winner

which takes United back into

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second place in the table.

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Chelsea, though, slip out

of the Champions League spots.

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Six Nations Rugby say they'll

investigate an alleged melee before

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Scotland's Calcutta Cup victory

over England on Saturday.

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As the teams returned

to the dressing rooms

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after warming up, England back

Owen Farrell and Scotland forward

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Ryan Wilson appeared to clash.

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The Six Nations said it would be

writing to the unions to request

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clarification on what happened

in the tunnel.

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That is all the sport for now,

Victoria, back to you. Good morning,

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hello, welcome to our programme.

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This morning, we're broadcasting

live from a pupil referral unit

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or PRU in Waltham Forest

in North East London.

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It is the first time a live TV

programme has come from a school

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like this, a primary school in

north-east London, 40 pupils between

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the ages of four and 11. This is

where they come when they are kicked

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out of mainstream education or are

in danger of being kicked out. 351

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PRUs across England. Aspiration is

really important in this particular

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school, have a look at this, some

artwork on one of the wars, Martin

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Luther King had a dream, and the

children are photographed holding up

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their own posters - I have a dream,

if I could make a difference and

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become PM. I have a dream I could

save millions of dogs, cats and

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animals in the world. The reason we

are here today is because we have

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discovered there has been a big rise

in the numbers of primary

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schoolchildren being educated in

places like this, in PRUs. The

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question is, why? That is what we

are going to explore this morning.

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In a few minutes, we are going to

show you an incredible film which

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shows you the kind of techniques

that they used here. After you, if

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you want to go through. The kind of

techniques that they use here,

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including restraint, that help turn

a child's life around. They have

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given us such transparent, open

access, it is a real insight. First,

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I have been told it is OK to go into

one of the lessons,

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one of the lessons, so this is Ms

Mwaniki's class one. Hello! Good

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morning, Ms Mwaniki, how are you?

Good morning, everybody!

Morning!

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Thank you for having us in your

lesson, don't let me interrupt, go

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on, carry on.

So we know what

happened to him, what did he do?

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happened to him, what did he do? And

then what else? What did we learn in

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that story? Yes?

He was on the hard

floor.

Fantastic, we are going to

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think about how we can fracture

that, because he did not fall. Yes?

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Shall we change it? Jayden T?

Maybe

you could change it and say Ampadu

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do the felt off the wall...

Stop

there, remember, what do we have to

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do...

I am going to pause you, if

that is all right, just so we can

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have a chat. This is obviously a

literacy lesson, can we take a seat

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here?

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here? Hi, how are you, I am

Victoria, we have met before. Hi,

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Andrew, Jacob, how are you? Thank

you very much for allowing me to

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interrupt your literacy lesson, take

a seat, of course. What is it like

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here?

What it is like here is that

you are very caring people around

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you who really help you, so Ms

Mwaniki, because she helps most of

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the children here, and they kind of

get that you are in a safe

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environment, and it helps mentally

and physically, basically, because

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it helps you integrate into

mainstream school, because when, say

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me, when I was of age to be in a

mainstream school, I used to keep

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coming out and getting excluded, but

this cool gives you extra help, it

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is helping me understand how it is

better to go into Andrea Tiberi. --

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this school.

Andrew, what is it like

for you?

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for you?

It is nice and safe, and it

has helped me a lot, when I first

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came here, I didn't like it, but now

I do, and especially Ms Mwaniki, she

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has helped me through everything,

and it is a very disciplined school.

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And that is good, is it?

Yes.

Jacob,

how long have you been here?

About a

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year, and when I first started here,

I was having trouble behaving and

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making loads of wrong choices...

That is what you use to be like?

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Yeah, but now if there is somebody,

like, annoying me or something, I

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will just ignore them. And I would

just stay away from them if I know

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they are going to create trouble or

something, and if one of my friends

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is trying to tell me to do something

wrong or something like that, I

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would ignore him and say no, I know

that is the wrong thing and I

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shouldn't do that.

And that is the

kind of thing you can teach them?

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And this is your last week, isn't

it?

Yes.

You are going back to your

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old primary school?

Yes, Monday is

my last day.

How does it feel?

I am

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a little anxious, but I have come

very far, and I have worked hard to

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reach this point.

We are going to

talk more in a moment, thank you

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very much for having me in your

classroom, I really want to urge you

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to watch this film.

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Do you know why you came here?

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Because I was being bad

at my other one...school.

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I think there is a stigma attached

to pupil referral units.

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He pinched me!

0:14:220:14:23

Nicholas.

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The stigma is that it's a place

for naughty children.

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Good boy, Nicholas.

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SCREAMING.

0:14:290:14:31

I mean, I don't like that

terminology at all.

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No, no!

0:14:340:14:35

I used to swear a lot.

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I used to be mean to

the teachers a lot.

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Did you have a good weekend?

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No.

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You do get really attached to them.

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The time you spend with them,

the things you go through

0:14:460:14:49

together, it's just...

0:14:490:14:51

There's nothing like it, really.

0:14:510:14:53

They're not naughty children.

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They're wonderful, bright,

intelligent, just amazing children

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but they've made poor choices,

and that's a big, big difference.

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It's a big day for Kayden.

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His first with a new class

at Hawkswood pupil referral unit.

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He's only six, yet he is in danger

of being permanently excluded

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from his mainstream school.

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Well, I did really bad stuff.

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Like pushing other people

and punching some people

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and sometimes kicked them.

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Kayden, you are very good at that.

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He's recently, from

what we understand, been

0:15:520:15:55

on a reduced timetable,

so he wouldn't be in class all day.

0:15:550:15:58

Do you know why you did that?

0:15:580:15:59

I don't know.

0:15:590:16:01

I think they got me

in a really bad mood.

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People do that sometimes.

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So our aim would be to get him back

into a mainstream classroom

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where he can be there all day

and accessing the curriculum

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like all of his peers.

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He's in a class with four other

children in the same boat.

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Today's the first time

they've all been together.

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OK.

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Hey!

0:16:270:16:28

That's it.

0:16:280:16:30

When they all first came in,

I think they were a bit bubbly

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and a bit jumpy because they just

needed to feel secure in this

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space and they needed

to feel secure with me.

0:16:370:16:39

And the new environment is testing

one of Kayden's triggers.

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Noise.

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She called me a baby!

0:16:430:16:44

No, I didn't!

0:16:440:16:45

Yes, you did.

0:16:450:16:46

Liar, liar, pants on fire.

0:16:460:16:47

Nicholas.

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You don't like noise, do you?

0:16:480:16:50

No.

0:16:500:16:57

Your hands to yourself,

and you were hurting people.

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That's why I have got

the ear defenders, to block

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off every single noise.

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You need to speak nicely to your

friends and if you can't do that...

0:17:080:17:11

Scared by the noise,

Kayden has started to act up.

0:17:110:17:14

Kayden, we're going to move

you out of this area.

0:17:140:17:20

Look what you've done.

0:17:200:17:26

What do you want me to do?

0:17:260:17:27

Look what, you made me...

0:17:270:17:28

Show me.

0:17:280:17:29

No, no!

0:17:290:17:30

Are you done?

0:17:300:17:32

Wait there.

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Come here.

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Leave me alone!

0:17:340:17:35

I just want to be left alone!

0:17:350:17:41

Kayden, I can take

you to the blue chair.

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I want to just be left alone.

0:17:430:17:47

Why can't I be left alone?

0:17:470:17:53

You want to be left alone?

0:17:530:17:54

It's not safe for me

to leave you here.

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I want to.

0:17:560:17:57

I can leave you alone, but not here.

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Yes.

0:17:590:18:00

Here is not the place.

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I can leave you alone inside

the classroom on the blue chair.

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I don't...!

0:18:050:18:07

You know you're not

allowed to hit me.

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I don't even care!

0:18:080:18:10

OK, well, I do care.

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I don't care!

0:18:110:18:13

It's not nice for me.

0:18:130:18:17

Kayden, why are we

here on the floor?

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Are you able to use your words

and tell me what's happened?

0:18:190:18:22

OK, that's fine but this isn't

a very safe place to be,

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in the middle of the corridor.

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I don't care!

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Oh, you don't need to care.

0:18:270:18:28

You just need to know that we do.

0:18:280:18:30

He almost ran from

the noise, and it...

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I would say it distressed

him and then that led

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on to undesired behaviour.

0:18:350:18:37

I know that he wanted a little bit

of peace and quiet to calm down.

0:18:370:18:41

Yeah.

0:18:410:18:42

Kayden, can we go to a safer

place than the corridor

0:18:420:18:44

where it's a bit quieter?

0:18:440:18:46

He was kind of stuck in the moment.

0:18:460:18:47

And so you try a few

different tactics.

0:18:470:18:49

Can I show you something

before we go?

0:18:490:18:51

I'm going to show you something.

0:18:510:18:53

In here.

0:18:530:18:56

And I said, "Oh, have

you seen our new library?

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Do you want to go in?"

0:18:590:19:00

And that was it.

0:19:000:19:01

He came right out of it.

0:19:010:19:02

And that's my favourite book.

0:19:020:19:04

Oh, no way!

0:19:040:19:05

That's your favourite book?

0:19:050:19:06

Are you serious?

0:19:060:19:07

Oh, my goodness, right.

0:19:070:19:08

That's Lego Batman.

0:19:080:19:09

Do you know what we're going to do?

0:19:090:19:11

That was distraction.

0:19:110:19:12

In that moment, that's

what brought him down again.

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Kayden's one of 40

pupils at Hawkswood.

0:19:170:19:20

Some are as young as five.

0:19:200:19:24

They all have different needs

but they are all here

0:19:240:19:27

because they've struggled

to manage their behaviour.

0:19:270:19:30

A typical intervention

is approximately 15-20 weeks.

0:19:300:19:33

It's really important that we build

attachments with the children

0:19:330:19:37

from a very early stage and we do

that via utter consistency.

0:19:370:19:44

For the juniors, the first lesson's

PE, every single morning.

0:19:440:19:49

She said scientifically,

when you do PE, it helps your

0:19:490:19:52

brain work properly.

0:19:520:19:57

And I don't know if that's

true or not but if it's

0:19:570:20:00

scientifically, then count me in.

0:20:000:20:02

At my old school, yeah,

I was spitting, I was punching,

0:20:020:20:05

I was hitting and I was

throwing chairs about.

0:20:050:20:10

It was really bad.

0:20:100:20:12

The worst time was when six

or seven people had to hold

0:20:120:20:15

me down on the floor.

0:20:150:20:16

I spent eight months

without being in school.

0:20:160:20:18

It wasn't good.

0:20:180:20:20

It wasn't good because it

made my brain hurt.

0:20:200:20:22

I didn't even learn anything.

0:20:220:20:27

My sister had to teach me.

0:20:270:20:32

Do you know, nursery,

nursery, nursery, four add

0:20:320:20:34

four, two add two, yeah?

0:20:340:20:35

She had to learn me that.

0:20:350:20:36

Why do you think Jo

was kicked out of school?

0:20:360:20:39

Because she was naughty?

0:20:390:20:40

Do we say naughty?

0:20:400:20:41

No, bad.

0:20:410:20:46

What do we say?

0:20:460:20:47

Do we say bad?

0:20:470:20:48

No.

0:20:480:20:49

What do we say?

0:20:490:20:51

She made what?

0:20:510:20:52

The wrong choices.

0:20:520:20:53

She made the wrong choices.

0:20:530:20:55

We teach the children

that they have a choice

0:20:550:20:58

when they feel frustrated,

they have a choice when they feel

0:20:580:21:00

anxious or angry and we teach them

that they are in control

0:21:000:21:03

of those choices.

0:21:030:21:04

Well done for doing the right thing.

0:21:040:21:06

She broke it.

0:21:060:21:07

Jamal, hands in your lap.

0:21:070:21:08

But Miss!

0:21:080:21:09

If you interrupt me again, Kayden,

you're going to go on the time out

0:21:090:21:13

chair to think about it.

0:21:130:21:14

And I don't want that.

0:21:140:21:15

But you need to make a good

choice and we're not

0:21:150:21:18

interrupting when I'm speaking,

do you understand?

0:21:180:21:19

Good boy.

0:21:190:21:23

We've got two minutes

till lunchtime.

0:21:230:21:24

Strict rules are always enforced.

0:21:240:21:28

Nicholas is refusing

to wash his hands before lunch.

0:21:280:21:31

Nicholas, you need to hurry up

and wash your hands.

0:21:310:21:34

Don't do that, Nicholas.

0:21:340:21:38

You'll be on the time out chair.

0:21:380:21:40

Is he going to the time out chair

or is he going to go

0:21:400:21:43

and wash his hands?

0:21:430:21:44

He's going to come

to the time out chair.

0:21:440:21:46

OK, that's fair enough.

0:21:460:21:47

Come on, Nicholas.

0:21:470:21:48

No, no!

0:21:480:21:49

You have to, Nicholas.

0:21:490:21:50

At times, occasionally, that can

lead to a physical intervention,

0:21:500:21:53

to keep the child safe.

0:21:530:21:54

Well done.

0:21:540:21:55

You know the meaning of restraining?

0:21:550:21:57

Basically, when they hold you down

because you're being unsafe.

0:21:570:21:59

I understand it here

because they explain it

0:21:590:22:01

in a more specific way.

0:22:010:22:02

No, I have to to make

sure everybody's safe.

0:22:020:22:04

We need to teach them from very

early on that we can keep them safe,

0:22:040:22:08

we can keep them emotionally

and physically safe and that

0:22:080:22:12

undesired behaviours won't be

tolerated but positive behaviours

0:22:120:22:17

will be rewarded with

attention or incentives

0:22:170:22:18

or whatever that may be.

0:22:180:22:20

Excellent.

0:22:200:22:21

Well done, Nicholas.

0:22:210:22:23

That's fine...

0:22:230:22:24

That's OK, but you have

to stay on the chair.

0:22:240:22:30

It's basically, like,

if you're being unsafe, like,

0:22:300:22:32

say if I came into this room

and I threw the table,

0:22:320:22:35

then one of the staff,

Miss Gentles would call assistance

0:22:350:22:37

and they will start holding me down

because I'm being unsafe.

0:22:370:22:40

No, no, no!

0:22:400:22:41

No, no, no!

0:22:410:22:44

Nicholas, we're going to hold

you again because we need

0:22:440:22:46

to make sure you are safe.

0:22:460:22:47

No, no!

0:22:470:22:48

And you're staying on the chair.

0:22:480:22:50

No, no!

0:22:500:22:51

SCREAMING.

0:22:510:22:52

Didn't we, Nicholas?

0:22:520:22:53

Do you remember?

0:22:530:22:54

Yes.

0:22:540:22:55

Stop it.

0:22:550:22:56

I've seen it before,

while I'm in class, some

0:22:560:22:59

children have been held.

0:22:590:23:00

I don't know the reason why.

0:23:000:23:01

It's none of my business.

0:23:010:23:03

I've just kept staying out of it.

0:23:030:23:05

You know, we need to wash our hands

before we have our lunch.

0:23:050:23:08

If we had said, oh, never mind,

hey-ho, after five minutes,

0:23:080:23:12

then the next day, when it came

to wash his hands, he could have

0:23:120:23:15

potentially showed us that same

behaviour because he would have

0:23:150:23:18

learned that that behaviour got him

out of washing his hands.

0:23:180:23:26

Some of the children,

potentially their families

0:23:320:23:35

are struggling with housing,

and are in quite cramped

0:23:350:23:37

living conditions.

0:23:370:23:43

Some children have come

from a background of some form

0:23:430:23:45

of abuse but not all children have

and I think that's really

0:23:450:23:48

important to stress.

0:23:480:23:52

That's a slight misconception,

that all the children who attend

0:23:520:23:54

the pupil referral unit have come

from an abused home

0:23:540:23:57

and that is incorrect.

0:23:570:24:02

The majority of parents are working,

trying really hard to provide

0:24:020:24:07

for their children but somewhere

along the line, something's

0:24:070:24:08

gone slightly wrong.

0:24:080:24:16

It's home time now and we've

collected these items out

0:24:170:24:20

of two of the new pupils' pockets.

0:24:200:24:23

But this isn't completely uncommon

and we find that children who have

0:24:230:24:26

got attachment issues

and they are trying to form

0:24:260:24:30

new attachments with the staff here,

they need to, or feel

0:24:300:24:34

that they need to take something

from here and take it home with them

0:24:340:24:37

so they feel connected to here,

a place where they felt safe

0:24:370:24:40

and contained today,

and take it back home,

0:24:400:24:42

to another place where they feel

safe and contained.

0:24:420:24:50

But there's another issue for staff.

0:24:510:24:52

It's spitting.

0:24:520:24:57

For the staff who weren't

here yesterday, we discussed...

0:24:570:25:00

The child in Katie's

room and spitting.

0:25:000:25:04

Something amazing happened.

0:25:040:25:07

Sit back on your bottom, please.

0:25:140:25:15

I don't like it.

0:25:210:25:23

Mrs Tubridy, I'm so sorry

to stop your lovely story.

0:25:230:25:25

Would you ask Miss Sinclair to come

and support me, please?

0:25:250:25:28

Anaya is five years old.

0:25:280:25:29

She's currently in reception but has

been permanently excluded

0:25:290:25:33

from her mainstream setting.

0:25:330:25:34

Where did the parcels go, Anaya?

0:25:340:25:36

It's quite unusual for a reception

child to be permanently

0:25:360:25:38

excluded but it does happen.

0:25:380:25:40

This behaviour is not acceptable.

0:25:400:25:41

No!

0:25:410:25:42

And we won't be

having that tomorrow.

0:25:420:25:44

No!

0:25:440:25:45

Anaya, Anaya.

0:25:450:25:46

Do the right thing.

0:25:460:25:47

Oh, dear.

0:25:470:25:49

That's a shame, isn't it,

because you started off

0:25:490:25:51

so well this morning.

0:25:510:25:53

She had the best morning.

0:25:530:25:55

We think that she's probably

spitting because it's a habit.

0:25:550:25:57

She knows that adults

will repel from that

0:25:570:26:01

so as hard as that is for us,

we need to make sure that we don't

0:26:010:26:05

pull away or whatever it may be

when she's doing that.

0:26:050:26:08

You had then started to spit

in my face and on my clothes

0:26:080:26:12

and on my arms and that's

not appropriate behaviour.

0:26:120:26:14

No, no.

0:26:140:26:15

If we need to hold her securely,

we're holding her securely,

0:26:150:26:18

putting your hand, one hand at each

side on the child's face.

0:26:180:26:22

If you continue to make that choice,

you will stay here.

0:26:220:26:24

But we really want you to

come back into class.

0:26:240:26:27

Katie and I did that

and she was spitting

0:26:270:26:29

still on Katie's hand.

0:26:290:26:33

But we talked about the fact that

Katie needed to not, you know,

0:26:330:26:36

put her head back or whatever

it was because what did she say

0:26:360:26:39

to you when you put your head back?

0:26:390:26:41

I know you're moving your head away

but I can still get you.

0:26:410:26:44

Yeah, OK.

0:26:440:26:45

Until this afternoon,

this little blip, she has been such

0:26:450:26:47

a superstar so it would

be really nice to...

0:26:470:26:50

I'm taking my hand away

because I know you can

0:26:500:26:52

control your spitting.

0:26:520:26:55

You have an apology to make to me

and the children for spitting

0:26:550:26:58

in our classroom and when you've

done that, you've got

0:26:580:27:00

ten minutes of payback.

0:27:000:27:01

When you've done that payback,

you can join everybody else

0:27:010:27:04

for after-school club.

0:27:040:27:05

We cannot wait to play with you.

0:27:050:27:12

Careful.

0:27:150:27:16

Careful.

0:27:160:27:24

Kayden lives with his

nan and grandad.

0:27:240:27:25

Sometimes we do family game night.

0:27:250:27:27

What do you play

on family game night?

0:27:270:27:30

We play Jenga and

Pie-face, the new one.

0:27:300:27:33

You play better than grandad.

0:27:330:27:34

Grandad?

0:27:340:27:35

Yes.

0:27:350:27:36

Next, after this, when I win...

0:27:360:27:40

When Kayden came into our life,

then I realised there were more

0:27:400:27:43

issues going on than just

a typical little boy.

0:27:430:27:47

The darkest point I think for us

was knowing that he was having

0:27:470:27:50

really bad meltdowns in school

and the school was

0:27:500:27:52

unable to manage that.

0:27:520:27:53

He was climbing up on furniture.

0:27:530:27:57

He was lifting up tables, throwing

objects around the classrooms.

0:27:570:28:00

It was just really disturbing

for other children to see.

0:28:000:28:04

We never had family game night.

0:28:040:28:09

So he's been in education

for two and a half years

0:28:090:28:12

and still can't read and write.

0:28:120:28:13

He would never have done that.

0:28:130:28:21

He can just about write his

name and maybe single

0:28:210:28:23

words but that's only

0:28:230:28:24

since he's been at Hawkswood.

0:28:240:28:25

There's been a drastic

change in Kayden.

0:28:250:28:27

He can sit down now for at least

five or ten minutes

0:28:270:28:30

and actually play a game.

0:28:300:28:31

He can do a little bit

of reading with us now.

0:28:310:28:34

He can sit, you know,

and just eat his dinner.

0:28:340:28:36

Wow, it sounds like you had

lots of fun at school today.

0:28:360:28:39

We don't take Kayden out very often.

0:28:390:28:41

We struggle with the fact that we're

worried that Kayden's going to run

0:28:410:28:44

off or he has meltdowns and then

we've got to try and explain

0:28:440:28:47

that to parents or people that

are staring and looking and I think

0:28:470:28:50

that's the hardest thing

is to try and explain

0:28:500:28:52

to someone that actually,

I'm really sorry that my child has

0:28:520:28:55

done this to your child or done

this to you or whatever,

0:28:550:28:58

but you can't label a child.

0:28:580:28:59

Kayden is not diagnosed

so until that diagnosis has been

0:28:590:29:02

made, I will not put a label on him.

0:29:020:29:08

OK, lovely, lovely.

0:29:090:29:11

Well, we'll see you on Wednesday.

0:29:110:29:12

OK, bye.

0:29:120:29:14

OK.

0:29:140:29:15

Who's that?

0:29:150:29:23

That's the father of a potential

new referral.

0:29:240:29:31

Dad did not want initially, did not

want his son to come here.

0:29:310:29:36

They can be very, very resistant,

and to be fair, it's

0:29:360:29:42

completely understandable

because when your child starts

0:29:420:29:44

school, you don't expect

for them to be referred

0:29:440:29:46

to a pupil referral unit.

0:29:460:29:49

Can go up as high as the 35 degrees?

0:29:490:29:51

They think they are going to walk

in and there's children fighting

0:29:510:29:54

in the corridors and all sorts,

and then they walk in,

0:29:540:29:56

it's really calm, they go

into the classrooms,

0:29:560:29:58

the children are working.

0:29:580:30:00

So, Baz, what's your place?

Japan?

0:30:000:30:03

Once we found this school,

it was just a big impact.

0:30:030:30:06

Now I'm in school, now I'm learning

and now, if I keep behaving,

0:30:060:30:09

I can reintegrate back

into a mainstream school.

0:30:090:30:11

Is that what you want?

Yeah, and it will happen.

0:30:110:30:19

Kayden's been here six weeks.

0:30:250:30:28

In a couple of months,

if all goes well, he'll

0:30:280:30:30

be back at his mainstream

school full-time.

0:30:300:30:35

You may choose something

from the prize pot.

0:30:350:30:37

I'm so proud of your behaviour

for the last few weeks.

0:30:370:30:42

All my favourite stuff is in here.

0:30:420:30:44

All your favourite stuff in there!

0:30:440:30:48

Remember when we were on the carpet

this morning, when you were doing

0:30:480:30:52

beautiful sitting and you said to me

that you love coming to this school?

0:30:520:30:56

Because I do.

0:30:560:30:57

So tell me some of the things

that you do

0:30:570:30:59

when you're making good choices.

0:30:590:31:00

Like, I'm tidying

up my room at home.

0:31:000:31:02

You do but thinking about what good

things do you do at school?

0:31:020:31:05

Oh, OK.

I do good writing.

0:31:050:31:07

Very good writing.

0:31:070:31:10

Where did we go on a

special trip last week?

0:31:100:31:12

The mime!

The pantomime, good boy!

0:31:120:31:16

Now, that's something

that could have been

0:31:160:31:19

quite tricky, couldn't it?

0:31:190:31:20

Yeah, do you know what

made me laugh in there?

What?

0:31:200:31:23

That wicked witch.

Yeah, that made me laugh.

0:31:230:31:25

She turned into a baby!

0:31:250:31:27

She did turn into

a baby, didn't she?

0:31:270:31:31

Kayden, normally, when you go

to places like theatres and cinemas,

0:31:310:31:34

what do you need to use to help you?

0:31:340:31:37

The ear defenders.

Your ear defenders.

0:31:370:31:39

Did you need them at the theatre?

No.

0:31:390:31:41

No way!

0:31:410:31:43

Because it wasn't noisy.

Well, actually, it was really noisy.

0:31:430:31:46

Yeah, but I didn't even need it.

You didn't.

0:31:460:31:50

Because I just ignored it.

You did ignore it.

0:31:500:31:52

Give me a high ten.

0:31:520:31:53

I love that word.

0:31:530:31:56

Very, very proud of you,

0:31:560:31:57

and I'm really proud of the teachers

that he's got there.

0:31:570:32:00

Knowing the difficulties

we are still going through

0:32:000:32:02

and they are still supporting us.

0:32:020:32:04

There's a light

at the end of tunnel.

0:32:040:32:08

Good girl.

0:32:080:32:12

Anaya had her best day.

0:32:120:32:13

She made good choices.

0:32:130:32:15

She managed her own behaviour

but primarily, she was just so proud

0:32:150:32:18

of herself and I think that rubs

off on everybody.

0:32:180:32:21

It was just a happy buzz all day.

A really, really good day.

0:32:210:32:24

This is for Kayden.

0:32:240:32:25

APPLAUSE

0:32:250:32:26

We boost children's confidence.

0:32:260:32:29

We show children what they can do.

0:32:290:32:34

You've got your certificate today

for that amazing writing last week.

0:32:340:32:40

Yes.

0:32:400:32:41

So if we do more amazing

writing, more certificates.

0:32:410:32:43

We teach them that they can have

aspirations and they can think big.

0:32:430:32:47

I just want to be a vet

when I'm older.

0:32:470:32:51

I love animals, and I love

taking care of them

0:32:510:32:53

and making sure they are healthy.

0:32:530:32:58

Today actually, funnily

enough, we have been

0:32:580:33:01

learning about mammals,

amphibians, reptiles, insects.

0:33:010:33:03

There's this special

word for a jellyfish.

0:33:030:33:05

I don't know what it is.

0:33:050:33:08

So I picked a leopard

because they are just,

0:33:080:33:10

they are just my spirit animal,

really.

0:33:100:33:13

What do you want to be?

Police.

0:33:130:33:18

You want to be a policeman?

Yeah.

0:33:180:33:20

Kayden.

0:33:200:33:23

Nice hands, because you're

a nice police officer.

0:33:230:33:24

Because they catch people

that are doing really bad stuff.

0:33:240:33:28

And we sometimes come to arrest you.

0:33:280:33:34

We need to work as a team

with the firefighters

0:33:340:33:39

because we're friends.

0:33:390:33:47

Well, as you saw, that film gave

a real insight into daily life

0:33:530:33:58

at this school and into how

they manage to turn round pupils.

0:33:580:34:03

Deputy head and classroom

teacher Leah Mwaniki,

0:34:030:34:10

and some of her pupils - Barrington,

age ten, Andrew, age nine,

0:34:100:34:13

and Jacob, who is also

nine, are still here.

0:34:130:34:17

Turn!

Sorry, ten!

Almost turned.

And

I am 11.

Zero points for!

0:34:170:34:33

Natalie on Facebook -

0:34:350:34:36

My daughter spent sometime

in a PRU last year

0:34:360:34:38

after a permanent exclusion.

0:34:380:34:39

She is now in a specialist

behavioural school

0:34:390:34:41

and she's slowly improving.

0:34:410:34:42

She has complex behavioural issues,

awaiting a complete

0:34:420:34:44

diagnosis and support.

0:34:440:34:45

The children are not

always naughty children.

0:34:450:34:52

Anonymous text - there's your answer

straightaway, small class sizes!

0:34:520:34:54

Trying to teach a class of 30

plus children at the same

0:34:540:34:57

time is impossible.

0:34:570:34:58

It's been like this for decades now.

0:34:580:35:00

I think what is really clear from

that film, you are absolutely

0:35:000:35:05

consistent with the rules, and I

could hear, and I felt that myself,

0:35:050:35:11

parents are bad than the country

going, that is the answer, you have

0:35:110:35:15

to keep doing the same thing. -- up

and down the country.

What ever you

0:35:150:35:21

are doing, you have to follow it

through, and we give them a routine,

0:35:210:35:24

and we give them the choice of

following instructions or face the

0:35:240:35:29

consequence, and we have to repeat

that over and over again until a

0:35:290:35:33

child understands this is the

expectation. Whatever I am expecting

0:35:330:35:40

the child to do, however long it

takes, that child will eventually do

0:35:400:35:45

it, so we are very consistent with

our boundaries, very tight and firm

0:35:450:35:51

boundaries, as well as the

principles of nurture, because we

0:35:510:35:55

fully understand behaviour is

communication, so whenever a child

0:35:550:36:00

behaves in a particular way, they

are trying to communicate something.

0:36:000:36:04

So we follow the natural principles,

and we believe every child, I am so

0:36:040:36:09

passionate about every child, every

child must have an opportunity to

0:36:090:36:14

progress. If they have been kicked

out of school, where the teachers

0:36:140:36:22

could not control them, whether they

are not making progress, but most of

0:36:220:36:26

the children, 98%, after

intervention, they go away, having

0:36:260:36:33

made accelerated progress in their

learning and their behaviour as

0:36:330:36:37

well.

Jacob, how do you think the

teachers here help you make the

0:36:370:36:43

right choices, good choices?

Well,

sometimes I am having trouble or

0:36:430:36:51

something. They would help me...

Sometimes, when I first came here,

0:36:510:37:02

they would sometimes take me out of

class and help me calm down. But now

0:37:020:37:09

I don't really need that any more,

but I used to have to be taken out

0:37:090:37:16

of class sometimes.

What about you,

Barrington? How do teachers help you

0:37:160:37:23

make the right choices? How long

have you been here, by the way

30

0:37:230:37:29

months.

13 months? Well, all the

time I have been here, by the time I

0:37:290:37:35

first came here, I was in Mr

Milligan's class, my first class

0:37:350:37:44

with Andrew, and a few other kids,

and I was the sort of kid that

0:37:440:37:49

sometimes, throughout the weeks, I

kind of slipped into bad behaviour,

0:37:490:37:55

kept on slipping. But at first I

really like the school, because I

0:37:550:38:00

felt I was safe in this kind of

place, and it was much better than

0:38:000:38:04

my other schools, my past schools.

And I made a lot

0:38:040:38:16

And I made a lot of friends, and the

first friend was Andrew, he is my

0:38:160:38:19

best friend.

He is smiling away at

that! You two are best friends?

I

0:38:190:38:25

was in the first class with him.

And

when do you hope to go back to

0:38:250:38:31

either your old school or another

mainstream primary?

Well, now I am

0:38:310:38:39

in year six, my family, I am going

to go to a secondary school, and

0:38:390:38:45

that school is going to be a

mainstream school.

Is that important

0:38:450:38:50

to you?

Very important to me.

Why?

I

care a lot about my future, work, I

0:38:500:38:58

care more about my education,

because education, someone said to

0:38:580:39:03

me, education is the key and you

need to follow it, because if you

0:39:030:39:07

don't, and you are missing out on

your learning, it is really bad. So

0:39:070:39:12

say before I was really missing out

on my learning, I kept being pulled

0:39:120:39:16

out of the class, and I was missing

a whole bunch of learning. And all

0:39:160:39:21

the other kids were learning, but I

wasn't, I was outside the classroom.

0:39:210:39:25

You said in the film that your

sister was having to teach you. Can

0:39:250:39:29

I ask you, Ms Mwaniki, if it is all

boys here?

It is not all boys, but

0:39:290:39:36

the majority of boys. We do have

girls, and that the minute I think

0:39:360:39:42

we have...

Three.

No, two.

Three

girls at the minute, but the

0:39:420:39:50

majority of them is boys. But as the

year progresses, especially around

0:39:500:39:54

July, we will be having more kids.

But at the minute, the boys are the

0:39:540:39:59

majority.

Listen, thank you very

much for having me in your class and

0:39:590:40:06

interrupting your literacy lesson,

very good to see you again,

0:40:060:40:10

Barrington, Andrew, Jacob, and good

luck when you go to your old primary

0:40:100:40:13

on Monday.

What you say to Victoria?

Thank you, Victoria!

And the people

0:40:130:40:22

at home?

Thanks for watching!

Thank

you so much, bye.

0:40:220:40:28

Schools like Hawkswood are becoming

increasingly important,

0:40:280:40:30

because we can reveal for the first

time this morning that the number

0:40:300:40:33

of younger children attending units

like this one across England

0:40:330:40:35

has significantly increased

over recent years.

0:40:350:40:38

Many - including this one -

are operating at full capacity

0:40:380:40:41

as demand increases.

0:40:410:40:47

We've also found similar

schools in other areas

0:40:470:40:51

even have a waiting list,

because there aren't enough places

0:40:510:40:53

for excluded students to go.

0:40:530:40:55

We're about to meet the school

head teacher, Marie Gentles.

0:40:550:41:00

The success of this school is,

in no small part, down to her

0:41:000:41:05

and the methods she's introduced.

0:41:050:41:11

Hi! Hoops, hang on, I need a fob,

don't I? How are you? Thanks so much

0:41:110:41:23

for having us here, take a seat, I

am telling you to take a seat in

0:41:230:41:29

your own office! I am getting above

myself! How are you?

I am very well,

0:41:290:41:35

thank you.

Was it a big decision to

let us in?

Yes, a very big decision,

0:41:350:41:41

because what we do is so precious to

us and to the area, what we do here,

0:41:410:41:45

and we have worked long and hard

with the schools here to build up

0:41:450:41:52

our reputations, and it is very

important that the right message is

0:41:520:41:56

sent across, which is these children

are amazing, we just need to

0:41:560:42:00

understand what behaviour is and

what it means.

I have got a text

0:42:000:42:04

from a chap called Simon, who says,

quote, they are not naughty

0:42:040:42:11

children, they have just made bad

choices, he says, are you serious?!

0:42:110:42:18

OK! LK, interesting. Children are

children. They are so young, so

0:42:180:42:24

mouldable, we have got to give them

a chance, this is our future

0:42:240:42:28

generation, so we cannot write

children off at primary school-age,

0:42:280:42:32

I do not think that is right or

fair. We not saying their

0:42:320:42:40

behavioural choices are OK, but we

are saying they need help and

0:42:400:42:43

additional support, and that is what

we do for them. And once they have

0:42:430:42:49

affected change, they need to have

the chance to be able to be part of

0:42:490:42:53

society, the same way every other

child has that chance.

Is there, in

0:42:530:43:00

your view, always an explanation for

poor behaviour?

Yes, there is. So

0:43:000:43:05

there are many reasons. We say there

is always a trigger, behaviour is

0:43:050:43:10

communication, so there is always a

reason why. The reasons may not be

0:43:100:43:15

seen as desirable to people, but

there is always a reason.

Like what?

0:43:150:43:19

It could be a learning need, it

could be that they are on a spectrum

0:43:190:43:24

and not yet diagnosed, it could be a

parental issue, something that has

0:43:240:43:29

affected their home life. There are

some in the different issues, but we

0:43:290:43:33

need to drill down to what is going

on for this child, for these

0:43:330:43:37

children, and try to help and

support them.

And not just them,

0:43:370:43:42

their parents.

Absolutely,

absolutely.

You must come across

0:43:420:43:47

some sad stories.

We do, many sad

stories, but actually that just

0:43:470:43:53

motivates us to work harder. We

cannot write these children off, we

0:43:530:43:57

cannot give up on them. We are

supposed to be a community, not just

0:43:570:44:03

a school, but as a borough, as a

country, you know, we have got to

0:44:030:44:06

come together and support each

other.

How many children in care are

0:44:060:44:12

in your school?

At the moment, not

many. We have got one coming up at

0:44:120:44:16

the moment currently.

And that is

out of 40? And how many children

0:44:160:44:22

live with just one parent?

0:44:220:44:28

Probably about half the pupils.

Is

that relevant?

Yes and no. Some

0:44:330:44:39

people assume that it is and it may

not be. You could be the most

0:44:390:44:43

fantastic single parent or you can

be a fantastic single parent who

0:44:430:44:47

need additional support. Either way,

it is neither here nor there.

How do

0:44:470:44:51

you react to the figures that show

that there is a rise of a third of

0:44:510:44:57

primary school age children now

being educated in pupil referral

0:44:570:45:00

units across England over the last

four years?

I am not surprised.

0:45:000:45:05

There is so much pressure on schools

at the moment. Financial restraints.

0:45:050:45:09

So much pressure on schools.

Actually I can talk for the schools

0:45:090:45:14

and Waltham Forest, and the primary

schools we work with, the majority

0:45:140:45:17

of them are doing an amazing job. If

they have a pupil or pupils who they

0:45:170:45:23

have tried many techniques with, but

they are not able to manage their

0:45:230:45:27

behaviour, that is when they call

upon us, and that is when we step in

0:45:270:45:31

and support them with this

intervention.

Do you think

0:45:310:45:36

politicians should worry about this

right?

Yes, in the sense that we

0:45:360:45:39

need to send more support to

schools. What else can we do to make

0:45:390:45:43

sure that more educational

professionals have the skills to be

0:45:430:45:46

able to support these children? What

else can we do to support not just

0:45:460:45:51

the mainstream schools, but schools

like ourselves, to make sure that

0:45:510:45:56

just as it is happening and Waltham

Forest, we have this rolling

0:45:560:46:00

programme so that people come into

intervention and then successfully

0:46:000:46:03

integrate back into mainstream

schools?

Your success rate is 96%.

0:46:030:46:09

Not all PRUs are like that. The

picture across England is

0:46:090:46:13

inconsistent from our

investigations, anyway. Why are some

0:46:130:46:19

think Laurel not successful at

helping children reintegrate?

I

0:46:190:46:23

think there are number of issues.

Each borough has a number of issues.

0:46:230:46:31

In Waltham

0:46:310:46:36

In Waltham I can say confidently

that we have an amazing system. An

0:46:360:46:41

amazing referral panel. A great

understanding of what we do in

0:46:410:46:44

Waltham Forest with this pupil

referral unit and so everybody buys

0:46:440:46:47

into it so it is used as it should

be used. I think that could

0:46:470:46:53

potentially be the difference.

Let

me read the messages for you. This

0:46:530:46:57

tweet from Scott. I am watching the

work of teachers and staff at the

0:46:570:47:00

pupil referral unit. It is an

eye-opener. What is the definition

0:47:000:47:05

of a hero these days? I would say

these teachers fit the brief,

0:47:050:47:10

especially in this tricky

environment.

0:47:100:47:16

environment. Larry says the PRU

staff are angels. And Carrie says

0:47:160:47:19

well done to the pupils and teachers

in your referral unit on the

0:47:190:47:23

programme today. The teachers have

shown how much hard work it is that

0:47:230:47:27

how rewarding the job is as well. It

shows that if the bin, consistency

0:47:270:47:30

and being calm during different

difficult situations and what it can

0:47:300:47:36

create. I take my hats off the

teachers and well done to everybody

0:47:360:47:40

involved.

Wow.

You used to work in a

mainstream school. What made baited

0:47:400:47:47

you to work here?

When I was in a

mainstream school, a select number

0:47:470:47:52

of children would be sent to my

class, many moons ago, and I always

0:47:520:47:56

used to wonder why. When they came

to my class they behaved

0:47:560:48:00

differently, better. I started to

realise that maybe there was

0:48:000:48:06

something within me. Maybe I had

some natural skills that needed to

0:48:060:48:09

be honed a little bit to be able to

work with children who just need a

0:48:090:48:14

little bit more. I am very

passionate about children anyway. I

0:48:140:48:19

loved the previous schools I worked

in but I wanted to do something that

0:48:190:48:22

will challenge me a little bit more.

Even though it is a challenge, I

0:48:220:48:28

know that at the end of the day we

have made a significant difference

0:48:280:48:32

to day.

I want to ask you about the

cost. To be educated in a mainstream

0:48:320:48:37

state school costs from £4000 to

£5,000 per pupil per year and there

0:48:370:48:43

are 30 in a class, as we know. In a

PRU there are seven or eight in the

0:48:430:48:49

class and the cost varies. In

Kirklees in Yorkshire they have told

0:48:490:48:53

us it costs £48,000 per pupil per

year. That is nine times the cost of

0:48:530:48:59

a mainstream state school per pupil.

Like as it is £12,000 per year and

0:48:590:49:04

in Nottinghamshire it is just under

£7,000. -- in Lancashire it is

0:49:040:49:10

£12,000. Some people might ask why

children who make poor decisions

0:49:100:49:14

deserve this money being spent on

them when good kids get so much

0:49:140:49:18

less?

I don't agree that good kids

get so much less.

But I have read

0:49:180:49:22

you the figures, they do, it costs

less.

But in terms of what they are

0:49:220:49:26

getting as a whole school

experience, it isn't less. Those

0:49:260:49:32

children who remain in mainstream

primary school, who can regulate

0:49:320:49:35

their emotions and manage their

behaviour, they have a very rich

0:49:350:49:39

curriculum in the school and they

are receiving quite a lot. However

0:49:390:49:42

these children are not able to. This

is our future generation, our future

0:49:420:49:48

children. If we don't invest in them

now, and we don't help them now, the

0:49:480:49:53

government will still need to spend

later on to support these young

0:49:530:49:56

people if we don't do it now.

There

is an incredible statistic from an

0:49:560:50:01

exclusion experts that we have

spoken to. 6500 pupils were

0:50:010:50:05

permanently excluded last year.

There organisation has calculated

0:50:050:50:08

that they will go on to cost the

state £2.1 billion in extra health

0:50:080:50:14

costs, criminal justice costs,

welfare and education, throughout

0:50:140:50:17

their lifetime. OK, thank you. Shall

we go round to class five? We are

0:50:170:50:23

going to talk more about the

techniques that you use for

0:50:230:50:27

controlling and ultimately changing

children's behaviour. I came here a

0:50:270:50:31

few weeks ago and I met quite a lot

of the children and we had lunch

0:50:310:50:34

together. After you. It is worth

saying that they were so polite. So

0:50:340:50:42

polite! So articulate as well. This

way?

It is important because we are

0:50:420:50:50

trying to teach them life skills. It

is important that they are able to

0:50:500:50:55

be part of society.

Class five.

Hello. Hello, everybody. Let me grab

0:50:550:51:04

a chair. Thank you. Thank you,

Barrington. Thank you so much. Where

0:51:040:51:12

are you going to sit? Hello. Let me

introduce lots more people. You

0:51:120:51:20

already know Andrew, Jacob,

Barrington, Mrs Gentles. And Jane

0:51:200:51:26

Harris. She is headteacher at

Edinburgh primary school. Kerry

0:51:260:51:30

Scott is headteacher at Ainslie

Wood, both based in nearby Waltham

0:51:300:51:33

Forest. And actually I just

mentioned your incredible fact that

0:51:330:51:44

6500 children excluded last year

will cost the state over £2 billion

0:51:440:51:47

over their lifetime. Incredible. I

wonder if you could just talk us

0:51:470:51:53

through behaviour. Please don't go

through the restraining techniques

0:51:530:51:58

and why you use them?

Restraint is a

last resort. If a child becomes a

0:51:580:52:06

danger to themselves or somebody

else, we have all been trained in

0:52:060:52:09

positive handling to handle them in

a safe way. If it is used

0:52:090:52:14

appropriately, which it is here all

the time, then it can be extremely

0:52:140:52:17

effective. It helps children to feel

emotionally and physically safe.

0:52:170:52:23

Could you ever use restraint in a

mainstream school?

Yes, if you are

0:52:230:52:30

trained but not all staff are.

At my

school, only a couple of members are

0:52:300:52:34

trained to use restraint. I don't

want people using it in the wrong

0:52:340:52:38

way. If a child needs restraint, and

it would be very unusual for a child

0:52:380:52:43

to need to be restrained, they would

call me or somebody else who has

0:52:430:52:49

been restraint trained and we would

go and break the decision about

0:52:490:52:51

whether they need to be restrained.

-- make the decision.

If a primary

0:52:510:52:58

school age people comes to a pupil

referral unit, does that mean the

0:52:580:53:02

mainstream primary school has failed

them?

It has and if the mainstream

0:53:020:53:07

school then works in partnership

with the PRU. One of the really,

0:53:070:53:14

really significant things about

Hawkswood is that it is to do with

0:53:140:53:16

partnership with the mainstream

school. There used to be an ethos

0:53:160:53:23

that by going to a PRU, even in

Waltham Forest a few years ago, that

0:53:230:53:28

that child was being sent away and

would never be seen again. But in

0:53:280:53:32

Waltham Forest, where the practice

is best, and in most schools it is

0:53:320:53:36

best, the child goes back to the

same school. There is a very strong

0:53:360:53:42

communication. We come up to the PRU

and visit throughout the child's

0:53:420:53:46

time in school.

Parents and people

wonder how a mainstream primary

0:53:460:53:51

school can be excluding permanently

children as young as four.

It is

0:53:510:53:57

rare for them to be permanently

excluded. The children here are not

0:53:570:54:02

permanently excluded mostly. It is a

process whereby they are referred by

0:54:020:54:06

a fairer access panel which we are

members.

Temporarily excluded then,

0:54:060:54:12

a four -year-old?

Add a question we

are always asking on the fairer

0:54:120:54:17

access panel is whether the school

is doing everything to support the

0:54:170:54:21

child.

This is the panel that refers

the child or not?

Yes. We can sit

0:54:210:54:27

and look. There can be times when a

school is thinking too rigidly and

0:54:270:54:31

the child is not fitting into that.

That is when it is our

0:54:310:54:36

responsibility to say you are not

thinking about the child here. Let's

0:54:360:54:40

but other techniques in place before

we would move the child onto the

0:54:400:54:43

PRU.

Let's talk about the effect of

exclusion on a child as they grow up

0:54:430:54:50

and their life chances.

It is clear

that here there is some brilliant

0:54:500:54:55

work going on which means that

students can be re-integrated back

0:54:550:54:58

into mainstream and be really

successful. The reason I started my

0:54:580:55:02

charity is because I am concerned

about the majority of people that

0:55:020:55:06

don't get reintegrated. We know that

increasingly more and more students

0:55:060:55:10

don't return to mainstream school

and their long-term outcomes are

0:55:100:55:13

really poor. The children who

finished their secondary school

0:55:130:55:16

education in a pupil referral unit,

how much likely to get the GCSE is

0:55:160:55:21

that they need to access further

education and one in two are

0:55:210:55:25

immediately unemployed after school.

That is the frightening statistic

0:55:250:55:28

because everybody deserves their

chance to get their dream career. We

0:55:280:55:32

need to reduce the numbers are

permanent exclusion and increase the

0:55:320:55:36

partnership working, the effective

early doors referral, when you

0:55:360:55:39

recognise there is something that

the school needs extra help with,

0:55:390:55:43

and you ask a brilliant pupil

referral unit to help you do that.

0:55:430:55:46

But as we have discussed they are

not all brilliant. The costs vary in

0:55:460:55:51

terms of how much it costs per pupil

in a pupil referral unit and the

0:55:510:55:55

length of stay varies. It is an

average 15 weeks in Bury and in

0:55:550:56:02

Camden it is just over two years, so

that doesn't make sense, doesn't it?

0:56:020:56:07

Maybe the mainstream school won't

take the child back. That can

0:56:070:56:11

happen.

It can do. In Waltham Forest

we have great partnerships with the

0:56:110:56:16

schools but yes, it can happen,

absolutely. We all need to work

0:56:160:56:20

together to work out what the best

next step is for that child. Is a

0:56:200:56:25

fresh start best?

I think it happens

when leaders don't know what the

0:56:250:56:29

stakes are. It is easy to think it

is just one pupil but over the whole

0:56:290:56:34

country it is more and more students

every year and the cost can be so

0:56:340:56:38

awful personally and as you

mentioned earlier £2.1 billion over

0:56:380:56:43

the lifetime of the population who

are excluded last year. That is a

0:56:430:56:48

huge cost nationally. We need more

leaders who are sensitised to the

0:56:480:56:52

risks of permanent exclusion who

know how to stop it from happening

0:56:520:56:56

and are passionate about taking on

these children.

But how can we do

0:56:560:57:00

that?

0:57:000:57:07

that?

There are pressures on

headteachers and when we get caught

0:57:070:57:09

up in the my school, my results,

league table situation, there is

0:57:090:57:14

huge pressure coming down on

headteachers. That squeaky wheel can

0:57:140:57:19

be a huge threat to the school.

However when you have got a good

0:57:190:57:23

partnership and there is an

excellent PRU doing excellent work

0:57:230:57:27

with the children, then we can be

confident that what is coming back

0:57:270:57:30

to us is a child that is ready to

reintegrate into mainstream

0:57:300:57:35

education and wants to. And just

remember that no child wants to

0:57:350:57:39

behave like this. They need the

intervention to support them and

0:57:390:57:44

ultimately what we want is to have

them back.

Shall I read you some

0:57:440:57:47

comments from people watching you

around the country is Mark Linda

0:57:470:57:51

says hats off to the wonderful staff

there.

0:57:510:57:57

there. Tasman says that Barrington

is amazing.

Yes, he is!

Brilliant

0:57:580:58:05

programme on PRUs. Amazing work. We

wish all the tools and all the best

0:58:050:58:09

and a brilliant future. A tweet from

Jane. If all the people I have met

0:58:090:58:17

in prison had experienced this

amazing care and patience they would

0:58:170:58:19

not be in prison. More investment in

fantastic teachers who need to be

0:58:190:58:24

trained will stop and this one,

watching Hawkswood primary pupil

0:58:240:58:29

referral unit. What an inspirational

place and inspirational staff. These

0:58:290:58:37

people need better pay and more

respect. The behaviour was

0:58:370:58:42

distressing but let's support these

people and offer the children hope.

0:58:420:58:45

Very briefly before we get the

weather forecast which is important

0:58:450:58:48

because it has been snowing all

morning but now it has stopped, I

0:58:480:58:52

know what you want to be when you

grow up. We were talking about life

0:58:520:58:58

chances. You want to be a vet. What

about Jacob?

I don't really know

0:58:580:59:04

because I have all my life ahead of

me to choose.

Absolutely. And what

0:59:040:59:09

about you?

A footballer.

Who is your

idol?

0:59:090:59:18

idol?

My favourite footballer? Paul

Pogba.

He isn't getting on well with

0:59:180:59:22

his manager at the moment! Thank you

so much. It is really good to see

0:59:220:59:28

you. Much more from this PRU in the

next hour of the programme. At first

0:59:280:59:32

order of the weather. Good morning.

0:59:320:59:34

next hour of the programme. At first

order of the weather. Good morning.

0:59:340:59:34

You are quite right. It has been

snowing in London and other parts of

0:59:340:59:38

the UK as well. This week we have

disruptive snow on the cards from

0:59:380:59:42

tonight. It wins, and a wind chill

that you will notice, and frost and

0:59:420:59:49

icy conditions. -- bitter winds. We

have showers coming in across the

0:59:490:59:54

east, not all of seeing them, and

drifting across to the west, which

0:59:540:59:59

will remain largely dry. Very cloudy

with the odd sunny spell.

0:59:591:00:03

Temperatures between freezing and

plus three in towns and cities and

1:00:031:00:06

lower than that in rural areas.

Overnight we have this line of snow

1:00:061:00:11

showers coming in through East

Anglia and Kent and the Channel

1:00:111:00:15

Islands, and significant snow in

eastern Scotland and North East

1:00:151:00:18

England, and it will be called

tonight with a widespread frost and

1:00:181:00:21

a risk of ice an untreated circuses.

-- cold tonight. Through the early

1:00:211:00:27

hours of Tuesday and into tomorrow

there is an amber weather warning

1:00:271:00:32

for snow. This is where those areas

are, the North East and the

1:00:321:00:36

south-east.

1:00:361:00:40

Hello, it's Monday, it's ten

o'clock, I'm Victoria Derbyshire.

1:00:401:00:42

Good morning, in a TV

first, we're broadcasting live

1:00:421:00:44

from a pupil referral

unit in London.

1:00:441:00:46

It's where primary

school children come

1:00:461:00:47

when they've been kicked

out their mainstream school.

1:00:471:00:52

We've discovered

there's been a big rise

1:00:521:00:54

in the numbers of young children

being educated in PRUs,

1:00:541:00:56

up 34% in England in the

past four years.

1:00:561:01:04

When I used to be in my mainstream

school, I used to keep coming out

1:01:061:01:10

and getting excluded and stuff, but

now I am in this special school, it

1:01:101:01:15

gives you extra help, it has helped

me more to understand how it is

1:01:151:01:19

better to go back into a mainstream

type of school.

1:01:191:01:24

The children who come

here are as young as four

1:01:241:01:26

and often have emotional problems

and a history of violent

1:01:261:01:29

and aggressive behaviour

towards teachers and other pupils.

1:01:291:01:37

Children are children, and they are

so young, so mouldable still, we

1:01:381:01:42

have got to give them a chance, this

is our future generation, so we

1:01:421:01:47

cannot write them off at primary

school-age.

1:01:471:01:50

The aim of these schools,

of course, is to turn that

1:01:501:01:53

challenging behaviour around,

so that kids can go back

1:01:531:01:55

to their mainstream schools

1:01:551:01:56

and hopefully go on to have a happy

and successful education.

1:01:561:02:01

When I first started here, I was

having trouble behaving, and I was

1:02:011:02:08

making loads of wrong choices.

That

is what you used to be like?

Yeah,

1:02:081:02:14

but now if there is somebody, like,

and oil in me or something, I will

1:02:141:02:19

just ignore them. -- annoying me.

And I would just stay away from them

1:02:191:02:26

if I knew they were going to create

trouble or something.

1:02:261:02:29

We've heard lots from the teachers

and pupils here, but there's another

1:02:291:02:32

group of people whose feelings

are often overlooked

1:02:321:02:34

in all this - the parents.

1:02:341:02:36

No parent ever thinks their child

is going to be the one that's

1:02:361:02:39

excluded from mainstream school.

1:02:391:02:46

He has made life difficult, not just

for me, but for himself, for whole

1:02:461:02:50

family. But try and do everything

you can, but you often find nothing

1:02:501:02:59

is enough.

1:02:591:03:01

We'll hear the experiences

of a group of parents

1:03:011:03:04

with children here at Hawkswood.

1:03:041:03:04

And as you'd expect,

we'd welcome your experiences -

1:03:041:03:07

does your child go

to a pupil referral unit?

1:03:071:03:09

Did you go to one?

Get in touch in the usual ways.

1:03:091:03:17

Just let me read a couple of

comments from you, this is from Ian,

1:03:251:03:29

what a lovely school for these

Japan, caring staff much needed to

1:03:291:03:33

give children a good start, so

heart-warming. -- for these

1:03:331:03:37

children. And says, what an amazing

head teacher, her compassionate

1:03:371:03:43

stance is amazing, incredibly

article at and sincere in her words.

1:03:431:03:48

And this one, students and staff at

Hawkswood PRU are on my hero list,

1:03:481:03:58

finding a way to engage is key, no

child is bad at heart, if they are

1:03:581:04:02

failing, it is because we are

failing. Much more of that to come,

1:04:021:04:06

let's bring you the news with Joanna

.

1:04:061:04:10

Jeremy Corbyn will set

out Labour's position

1:04:101:04:12

on Brexit this morning,

after months of demands

1:04:121:04:15

that the party clarify its plans.

1:04:151:04:16

In a speech later, he'll say

the UK should negotiate

1:04:161:04:19

a bespoke agreement with the EU

on a customs union,

1:04:191:04:21

and a strong new relationship

with the single market.

1:04:211:04:23

The Conservatives say his proposals

would breach promises made

1:04:231:04:26

at the last general election.

1:04:261:04:27

You can watch Mr Corbyn's

speech on this programme.

1:04:271:04:29

It's expected

in about half an hour.

1:04:291:04:31

Four people have been killed

in an explosion in Leicester,

1:04:311:04:34

which destroyed a building

in the middle of a parade of shops.

1:04:341:04:37

Another four people remain in

hospital, one with serious injuries.

1:04:371:04:40

Emergency teams are still searching

through the wreckage

1:04:401:04:42

in the Hinckley Road area

of the city.

1:04:421:04:44

Andy Moore reports.

1:04:441:04:48

The immediate aftermath

of an explosion

1:04:481:04:53

that destroyed a shop

and a two-storey shop above it.

1:04:531:04:55

Police say there were four

confirmed fatalities and four

1:04:551:04:58

people remain in hospital,

one with serious injuries.

1:04:581:05:01

The search and rescue

operation continued overnight

1:05:011:05:03

for any more victims.

1:05:031:05:08

Police say there may be other

people unaccounted for.

1:05:081:05:10

We still think this is a rescue

operation, we're using shoring

1:05:101:05:12

techniques to try to rescue anyone

who may be alive in the building.

1:05:121:05:20

Local people spoke about the force

of the explosion and the fierceness

1:05:231:05:26

of the fire that followed.

1:05:261:05:30

We heard a low explosion,

and it felt like a tremendous

1:05:301:05:32

shock through the house,

like it was going to

1:05:321:05:35

bring the ceiling down.

1:05:351:05:36

I rang the police, 999,

and they said, "What services?"

1:05:361:05:40

I said, "Everything you can send."

1:05:401:05:43

Police say they don't know

what caused the blast -

1:05:431:05:45

a joint investigation

with the Fire Service will get

1:05:451:05:48

under way once the site has

been made safe.

1:05:481:05:56

There's been a big rise

in the number of primary school

1:05:571:06:00

to a freedom of information

request by this programme.

1:06:001:06:03

Children are referred to the units

when they've been excluded,

1:06:031:06:05

or are close to being excluded,

from their mainstream school.

1:06:051:06:11

Over the last four years,

the number of children in England

1:06:111:06:13

being schooled in the units

has increased by a third.

1:06:131:06:16

The headteacher of one unit said

the figures underlined the pressure

1:06:161:06:18

primary schools are under.

1:06:181:06:25

The primary schools we work with,

the majority of them are doing an

1:06:251:06:29

amazing job, but if they have a

pupil or pupils who they have tried

1:06:291:06:33

many techniques with, but they are

not able to manage their behaviour,

1:06:331:06:39

that is when they call upon

ourselves, and that is when we step

1:06:391:06:42

in and we support them with this

intervention.

1:06:421:06:45

New legislation to cap

poor-value energy tariffs

1:06:451:06:46

and save consumers money

is being introduced

1:06:461:06:48

to Parliament later.

1:06:481:06:49

The Government says it will protect

11 million people from higher bills.

1:06:491:06:52

The industry has warned the cap

could stifle competition.

1:06:521:06:55

Parts of the UK will feel colder

than the Arctic Circle

1:06:551:06:58

this week with widespread snow

and bitterly cold winds.

1:06:581:07:01

Rail companies in East Anglia

say their services

1:07:011:07:02

will end early tonight.

1:07:021:07:05

C2C and Greater Anglia have

also cancelled services

1:07:051:07:07

on Tuesday and Wednesday.

1:07:071:07:08

They urge customers

to check before travelling.

1:07:081:07:15

That's a summary of

the latest BBC News.

1:07:151:07:20

Hello again.

1:07:211:07:22

Manchester City have won their first

trophy under manager Pep Guardiola

1:07:221:07:25

with a comfortable 3-0 win

over Arsenal.

1:07:251:07:27

City captain Vincent Kompany

was on the scoresheet

1:07:271:07:30

as the Premier League's runaway

leaders secured the first domestic

1:07:301:07:34

title of the season.

1:07:341:07:38

Afterwards, Guardiola thanked

the club for its support

1:07:381:07:40

during his trophy-less first season.

1:07:401:07:41

A good win too for the red

half of Manchester.

1:07:411:07:43

United came from behind to beat

Chelsea 2-1 at Old Trafford

1:07:431:07:46

in the Premier League.

1:07:461:07:47

After Willian's opener,

United striker Romelu Lukaku

1:07:471:07:49

levelled things before crossing

in for substitute Jesse Lingard

1:07:491:07:53

to nod in the winner,

1:07:531:07:59

which takes United

back into second place

1:07:591:08:01

in the table.

1:08:011:08:02

Chelsea, though, slip out

of the Champions League spots.

1:08:021:08:05

Six Nations Rugby say they'll

investigate an alleged melee before

1:08:051:08:07

Scotland's Calcutta Cup victory

over England on Saturday.

1:08:071:08:10

As the teams returned to the

dressing rooms after warming up,

1:08:101:08:13

England back Owen Farrell

and Scotland forward

1:08:131:08:15

Ryan Wilson appeared to clash.

1:08:151:08:17

The Six Nations said it would be

writing to the unions

1:08:171:08:21

to request clarification on

what happened in the tunnel.

1:08:211:08:29

Finally, British boxer Scott

Westgarth has died in hospital at

1:08:301:08:33

the age of 31. He fell ill after his

light heavyweight win in Doncaster

1:08:331:08:40

on Saturday. More on that story on

the BBC Sport website. That is all

1:08:401:08:45

the sport for now, back to you in

London, Victoria. We will be

1:08:451:08:49

bringing you the Jeremy Corbyn

speech live, do not worry about

1:08:491:08:52

that.

1:08:521:08:55

Welcome back to Hawkswood PRU.

1:08:551:08:57

It's a pupil referral unit

for children as young as four.

1:08:571:09:01

Thank you for your many messages, a

lot of you are finding the staff and

1:09:011:09:04

the techniques they used to turn a

child's life around inspiring.

1:09:041:09:08

Kids are sent here because they've

been violent or disruptive

1:09:081:09:11

and their mainstream school can't

cope with them.

1:09:111:09:16

This is obviously the kitchen area,

Theresa is making lunch, morning!

1:09:161:09:19

The smell in here is freshly baked

bread, there is bred in the oven of

1:09:191:09:26

there, and we are having vegetarian

chilli with nachos, cheese plant,

1:09:261:09:30

jacket potato, pictures and custard

or fresh fruit. This PRU is rated as

1:09:301:09:37

of -- outstanding, but they are not

all like this, we have seen parts of

1:09:371:09:45

the system at breaking point, and we

have seen worrying inconsistencies,

1:09:451:09:50

which means that what happens to

excluded pupils of all ages depends

1:09:501:09:53

heavily on where they live is. --

where they live.

1:09:531:10:00

(VT NEXT) School exclusions

are rising significantly but why?

1:10:001:10:02

It's like a maths problem,

where the numbers don't add up.

1:10:021:10:05

It is really, really shocking

that we are seeing so many

1:10:051:10:09

students being excluded.

1:10:091:10:10

And it's about geography, too.

1:10:101:10:11

Whether it be funding or how good

the provision is that is available

1:10:111:10:15

to them in their area.

1:10:151:10:16

It is all down to a postcode

lottery, eventually.

1:10:161:10:19

We've spoken to teaching

professionals who say schools cook

1:10:191:10:21

the books to remove problem pupils.

1:10:211:10:27

They just referred them

to the pupil referral unit,

1:10:271:10:29

so that the exclusions didn't

show up on the books.

1:10:291:10:32

And we've heard about excluded

children going months

1:10:321:10:34

without any schooling.

1:10:341:10:35

You need full-time education,

a full curriculum.

1:10:351:10:40

This boy is 14.

1:10:401:10:48

We're calling him Jay,

but it's not his real name.

1:10:521:10:56

He was permanently excluded

for serious misconduct months ago,

1:10:561:10:59

and his family says the council

still hasn't found him

1:10:591:11:02

an appropriate school.

1:11:021:11:07

Well, all they turned round and said

1:11:071:11:08

is they've got nowhere

for the likes of him to go.

1:11:081:11:12

Nowhere they can offer him a place?

Nowhere. Nowhere.

1:11:121:11:16

But they said they might,

they could offer him one-to-one

1:11:161:11:21

in a library or recreation centre.

1:11:211:11:24

How long for?

For an hour.

1:11:241:11:28

An hour?

One hour a week.

1:11:281:11:30

I just turned around

and said no way.

1:11:301:11:32

He needs full-time education,

a full curriculum.

1:11:321:11:36

There are specific reasons

1:11:361:11:38

why the council says it has

struggled to find Jay a school.

1:11:381:11:42

We are not identifying him.

1:11:421:11:44

What has it been like?

1:11:441:11:46

But he says he's bored

out of his mind.

1:11:461:11:48

All he wants is school.

1:11:481:11:51

He has learning needs.

1:11:511:11:53

What kind of needs does he have?

1:11:531:11:55

He's got ADHD, dyspraxia,

Tourette's, anxiety disorder.

1:11:551:12:00

After six days, when a child

has been out of education,

1:12:001:12:06

they should have somewhere for them

to go - and that's by law.

1:12:061:12:10

And now it's been two months.

1:12:101:12:18

More than 6500 pupils like Jay

were permanently excluded in England

1:12:191:12:23

last year, but far more than that,

48,000, are being educated

1:12:231:12:26

in schools for excluded children.

1:12:261:12:29

That's about one

in every 200 pupils.

1:12:291:12:33

The number's on the rise,

and it's a costly problem.

1:12:331:12:37

Kieran Gill has studied

the exclusion statistics.

1:12:371:12:39

She set up a charity

to try to deal with the issue.

1:12:391:12:43

We calculated that for every year's

worth of excluded pupils,

1:12:431:12:49

so last year, 6,500

permanently excluded students,

1:12:491:12:52

they will go on to cost

the state 2.1 billion in extra

1:12:521:12:56

health costs, criminal justice,

welfare and education costs

1:12:561:12:58

through their lifetime.

1:12:581:13:01

What about figures

for younger pupils?

1:13:011:13:03

We wanted to find out

about primary school exclusions,

1:13:031:13:06

so we made a Freedom

of Information request.

1:13:061:13:10

Out of 150 councils, 130 responded.

1:13:101:13:16

They said this many 4-11-year-olds

were educated in schools

1:13:161:13:19

for excluded children

in the last recorded year.

1:13:191:13:21

That's a rise of 34%

in just four years.

1:13:211:13:27

We did some more maths.

1:13:271:13:29

In those council areas,

the number of children under five

1:13:291:13:32

being temporarily excluded

rose by 29% in just one year.

1:13:321:13:34

So why?

1:13:341:13:39

Some of the children are more

complex, that we are seeing now,

1:13:391:13:42

that we probably didn't have before,

so they aren't necessarily a quick

1:13:421:13:46

turn around and back into schools.

1:13:461:13:48

They are highly complex children

who need some specialist

1:13:481:13:50

provision and probably need

long-term specialist provision.

1:13:501:13:54

But what happens to those

children who are excluded?

1:13:541:13:57

That is a geography lesson.

1:13:571:14:05

Jay lives in Gateshead

in the North East.

1:14:061:14:08

Exclusion rates here

are double the national average.

1:14:081:14:11

It's a big problem.

1:14:111:14:14

There is a pupil referral unit here,

and the council says

1:14:141:14:17

they mentioned it to Jay's family

as a possible solution.

1:14:171:14:19

The children who have been

excluded in Gateshead,

1:14:191:14:22

there is a pupil referral unit.

1:14:221:14:24

Would you want him to go there?

Nope.

1:14:241:14:26

Why not?

1:14:261:14:28

Because it hasn't got a good

reputation, so I don't really

1:14:281:14:32

want to send him to a place

that is going to put him back

1:14:321:14:35

instead of going forward.

1:14:351:14:39

And she might have a point.

1:14:391:14:41

This is the pupil referral unit,

1:14:411:14:43

and the last time Ofsted came here,

they rated it inadequate.

1:14:431:14:49

In some local authorities

in the country, if you are excluded,

1:14:491:14:52

you have no option but to go

to an inadequate provision.

1:14:521:14:55

What inadequate means is essentially

that it's not a safe

1:14:551:14:59

learning environment and one

where students can thrive.

1:14:591:15:05

In the North East, where Jay lives,

excluded students are eight times

1:15:051:15:08

more likely to be sent

to an inadequate pupil referral unit

1:15:081:15:10

than the England average.

1:15:101:15:12

Because it was rated inadequate,

1:15:121:15:14

the unit in Gateshead

had to become an academy.

1:15:141:15:18

The council said it worked

very hard to improve it

1:15:181:15:20

before it was taken over.

1:15:201:15:22

Gateshead Council also said

they are doing everything they can

1:15:221:15:25

to resolve Jay's situation

but that his family has so far

1:15:251:15:28

refused all the offers put to them.

1:15:281:15:35

The Gateshead unit ended up rated

inadequate because it had to cope

1:15:351:15:38

with far more people

than it was set up for.

1:15:381:15:46

It seems that is a pretty

common situation.

1:15:461:15:48

We met with someone who,

until recently, was running a pupil

1:15:481:15:51

referral unit in a city in England.

1:15:511:15:52

They did not want to be on camera

so an actor is speaking their words.

1:15:521:15:57

The schools didn't exclude,

they just referred them to the pupil

1:15:571:16:02

referral unit so that the exclusion

didn't show up on the books.

1:16:021:16:05

Effectively, mainstream schools

in the city were palming off

1:16:051:16:09

the students they didn't

want to the pupil referral unit.

1:16:091:16:11

What went through your mind

when things got tough?

1:16:111:16:13

What were you worried about?

1:16:131:16:18

Just that there was too many

kids and that we would

1:16:181:16:21

suffer as a result of it.

1:16:211:16:25

So many pupils were sent to the unit

that they were four times

1:16:251:16:30

over capacity, hundreds

and hundreds of children.

1:16:301:16:35

Yeah, yeah, they were coming out

of mainstream at a rate of,

1:16:351:16:38

I think it was just over

one per day.

1:16:381:16:40

So if you spread that

out over a school year,

1:16:401:16:43

that would be 100, 200 per year.

1:16:431:16:44

Coming out as in going

into your school?

1:16:441:16:46

Yeah, yeah.

1:16:461:16:48

Coming out of school, to us,

about 200 per year and none of those

1:16:481:16:51

kids would go back in.

1:16:511:16:57

So you'd have a residue of kids

each year and each year

1:16:571:17:00

those numbers would get bigger

and bigger and bigger.

1:17:001:17:05

The Wellspring Academy Trust runs

pupil referral units

1:17:051:17:07

in five council areas,

including here in Barnsley.

1:17:071:17:10

The head here is really

worried about reports

1:17:101:17:12

of overcrowding across England.

1:17:121:17:16

Strategically, how do you plan

a school if you're supposed to be

1:17:161:17:20

planning for 100 and then you end up

having 200, 300, 400?

1:17:201:17:24

So there's obviously real concerns

about that and I think that's just

1:17:241:17:27

a real pressure in the system.

1:17:271:17:28

You know, there are children coming

out of mainstream education

1:17:281:17:30

into alternative provision

and it is putting a massive

1:17:301:17:33

pressure on the system.

1:17:331:17:34

This is a pattern that we've seen,

year-on-year, more and more

1:17:341:17:37

children being excluded.

1:17:371:17:43

And actually, the sector hasn't been

given the attention it needs to cope

1:17:431:17:46

with this huge influx of students.

1:17:461:17:49

I guess the question is how does

that increase impact

1:17:491:17:52

on the pupil referral units that

some of the kids will end up in?

1:17:521:17:55

Well, some have buckled under

the sheer weight of numbers.

1:17:551:18:00

The former head we met

had so many children

1:18:001:18:05

he had no choice but to send them

across the city for tuition

1:18:051:18:08

at more than ten different

education companies.

1:18:081:18:10

Pupils even had

lessons in libraries.

1:18:101:18:12

His unit was rated

inadequate by Ofsted.

1:18:121:18:14

They just couldn't keep

the children safe.

1:18:141:18:17

Well, I agreed

safeguarding was an issue.

1:18:171:18:21

Seeing these kids every day

going into the local

1:18:211:18:28

libraries or wherever,

and then turning up

1:18:281:18:30

at their placements like they did,

well, that was a safeguarding

1:18:301:18:34

plus point but it wasn't adequate.

1:18:341:18:42

But ultimately, because you

didn't have the space,

1:18:421:18:44

you were sending them

1:18:441:18:45

to libraries across the city?

1:18:451:18:46

Yeah.

1:18:461:18:47

The rising number of

exclusions is an issue.

1:18:471:18:50

To many, an even

bigger one is money.

1:18:501:18:52

Explain to me how the funding

for a place in a pupil

1:18:521:18:55

referral unit works.

1:18:551:18:56

What we do is we work

to a model where you get

1:18:561:18:59

the first £10,000 paid.

1:18:591:19:00

From the government?

1:19:001:19:01

From the government, yeah.

1:19:011:19:03

So in the case of this particular

pupil referral unit,

1:19:031:19:11

we would get £10,000 for every child

that we planned to have in the unit,

1:19:131:19:17

and then whoever commissioned

the places, in this case,

1:19:171:19:19

the council, they pay

what we call a top up.

1:19:191:19:22

But the size of that top up again

comes down to where you live.

1:19:221:19:25

The variations are huge.

1:19:251:19:26

Kirklees Council in Yorkshire says

a primary pupil referral unit place

1:19:261:19:29

costs £4000 per month.

1:19:291:19:31

In Lancashire, it is

just £1000 per month.

1:19:311:19:37

Next door in Blackpool,

it is way lower still.

1:19:371:19:40

And the cost of a referral

unit in Nottinghamshire

1:19:401:19:42

is just £565 per month.

1:19:421:19:44

In other words, children in some

council areas get tens

1:19:441:19:46

of thousands of pounds more

towards their education every

1:19:461:19:49

year than in others.

1:19:491:19:51

So how is that going

to affect your life chances?

1:19:511:19:58

Well, you can imagine that

that is huge because everything

1:19:581:19:59

revolves around the money you can

put into the provision,

1:19:591:20:07

so from staffing, resourcing,

buildings, premises,

1:20:081:20:09

it is highly significant.

1:20:091:20:12

So as an executive head yourself,

working in different local

1:20:121:20:15

authorities, how does it

work for you?

1:20:151:20:16

Do you have different

challenges in different areas?

1:20:161:20:18

Absolutely, yeah.

1:20:181:20:19

The Wellspring Trust works in five

local authorities and the funding

1:20:191:20:22

is different in all five.

1:20:221:20:23

So how do you maintain

consistency across the board?

1:20:231:20:25

That is the challenge.

1:20:251:20:26

What you have to do is you have

to do different staffing structures.

1:20:261:20:30

You have to do different models

of pastoral support and care.

1:20:301:20:33

So it is all down to a postcode

lottery, essentially.

1:20:331:20:35

So a problem of numbers.

1:20:351:20:37

Too many excluded children

for the system to cope with.

1:20:371:20:39

Too few good quality

pupil referral units.

1:20:391:20:42

This is a real injustice

because we are talking

1:20:421:20:50

about the most vulnerable

children who often...

1:20:501:20:51

Well, they are four times

1:20:511:20:53

more likely to grow up in poverty,

they are ten times more likely

1:20:531:20:56

to have a mental health need.

1:20:561:20:58

They are seven times more likely

to have a learning need.

1:20:581:21:01

And a question of geography.

1:21:011:21:02

Being schooled in some areas

means your life chances are far

1:21:021:21:04

worse than in others.

1:21:041:21:06

He's not allowed outside

while he is excluded.

1:21:061:21:10

So in school hours, he's

in the house all day, every day.

1:21:101:21:14

Are you worried about the future

for these kind of children?

1:21:141:21:17

Yeah, yeah, very worried,

and particularly when you talk

1:21:171:21:25

about the discrepancies in funding

and actually it's just not fair.

1:21:251:21:28

It needs to be fair and equal,

right across the country,

1:21:281:21:31

to give at least the provision

a chance of getting it right.

1:21:311:21:37

Because if your funding is not

right, and it's different,

1:21:371:21:40

and it's not enough,

then you haven't even got a chance

1:21:401:21:42

of getting it right.

1:21:421:21:50

Let me read you this text message

from Vanessa. My son was sent to

1:21:501:21:54

Hawkswood last year after being

permanently excluded in reception,

1:21:541:21:58

aged four. They do a brilliant job

and with their help my son is back

1:21:581:22:02

in the mainstream school and doing

well. They do amazing work at

1:22:021:22:06

Hawkswood, which is where we are

spending the morning. All through

1:22:061:22:09

this week we are focusing on what

they do here. The headteacher of

1:22:091:22:13

Hawkswood is back with us and Tom

Bennett is the government's

1:22:131:22:21

behaviours tsar. Why are so many

more children being taught in PRUs?

1:22:221:22:31

I need to do more research but my

gut feeling is that it comes down to

1:22:311:22:35

money and the wraparound care tends

to go. One of the biggest reasons

1:22:351:22:40

for children going to PRUs is

because teachers and school leaders

1:22:401:22:42

tended not to get efficient formal

training in de-escalation techniques

1:22:421:22:48

and dealing with children's

behaviour before it gets to that

1:22:481:22:53

point.

As she said, you get one week

on behaviour in formal teacher

1:22:531:22:59

training.

I got 45 minutes.

After

how long in training?

You're

1:22:591:23:03

supposed to pick it up on the job.

Formal training was 45 minutes,

1:23:031:23:10

which was inadequate and I am trying

to change that. We need to reduce

1:23:101:23:14

the incidents so that we don't get

to that point rather than just

1:23:141:23:17

reacting to misbehaviour but we also

need to create an atmosphere where

1:23:171:23:20

children can flourish and be

nourished. Coming here isn't a

1:23:201:23:24

negative thing. It is where children

can unlock the services they need to

1:23:241:23:27

help them. This is intensive care,

emphasis on intensive and an care,

1:23:271:23:33

but most schools don't have those

provisions.

You talked about one of

1:23:331:23:38

the reasons being budgetary

constraints, as you put it

1:23:381:23:45

diplomatically. You are the

government's behaviour tsar.

I am

1:23:451:23:52

independent, not paid by them.

One

of the things that is going

1:23:521:23:57

classroom assistants. People who

help the teachers in a class of 30,

1:23:571:24:02

really hard job anyway. That could

be relevant.

It could be relevant

1:24:021:24:07

and the devil is in the detail. Some

classroom assistants are worth their

1:24:071:24:11

weight in gold and if they are

properly trained and they can deal

1:24:111:24:13

with interpersonal issues with the

children involved and work with a

1:24:131:24:17

teacher, that can be fantastic. But

it is a varied picture.

How worried

1:24:171:24:22

are you about the totally

inconsistent provision of PRUs and

1:24:221:24:25

the standards they set across

England?

To be fair, we can judge

1:24:251:24:29

PRUs in the same way that we judge

schools in general. Some are

1:24:291:24:33

outstanding and some are not and

that is a very loaded term. There

1:24:331:24:36

are many areas of the UK where the

needs and the challenges are greater

1:24:361:24:40

with things like poverty and so on.

Obviously we see schools in those

1:24:401:24:45

circumstances doing their best, and

most schools do, but really

1:24:451:24:48

struggling with the level of

challenge that the demographics are

1:24:481:24:52

providing for them. These are the

areas where we should be targeting

1:24:521:24:56

resources and funding.

And finally,

teacher training, when it comes to

1:24:561:25:00

behaviour, instead of one week out

of four years, how much should it be

1:25:001:25:05

in a teacher training course?

If you

do a one year PGCE, which is very

1:25:051:25:09

common, it should be threaded

throughout the

1:25:091:25:21

throughout the year and revisited,

not just something you get in a 45

1:25:211:25:23

minute session and it should be done

mostly in schools as well because

1:25:231:25:26

teacher training and behaviour

management is a practical craft.

1:25:261:25:28

Thank you. John Bennett, the

government's behaviour tsar, but he

1:25:281:25:30

is independent. -- Tom Bennett. Now

we are going back to classroom five.

1:25:301:25:35

Can I read some more messages from

our audience watching across the

1:25:351:25:39

country? Angela has emailed and that

this headteacher and her staff are

1:25:391:25:45

inspirational. Their approach is

just amazing. All MPs and policy

1:25:451:25:48

makers should watch this programme.

Naomi Tweed that this school is

1:25:481:25:53

phenomenal and mainstream schools

and parents don't take time to

1:25:531:25:57

understand children and their needs.

An email from Harry. Absolutely

1:25:571:26:01

open-minded attitudes shown by the

staff on the programme today. Such

1:26:011:26:05

passion from teachers. I recall

similar wrong choices from children

1:26:051:26:09

in primary and we all thought the

children were just naughty or some

1:26:091:26:15

beyond that. It goes to show what

can be achieved. This programme has

1:26:151:26:20

opened my mind. How do you react to

that?

Very overwhelming. Thank you.

1:26:201:26:26

That is true. We will go in and

introduce you to some parents.

1:26:261:26:35

We have heard a lot from teachers

and headteachers and pupils and now

1:26:401:26:44

it is time to hear from parents.

1:26:441:26:50

Anne-Marie Barbaris,

mum of nine-year-old Kyra,

1:26:511:26:51

Kerri Wooden,

mum of seven-year-old Logan,

1:26:511:26:53

Shelley Porter,

mum of eight-year-old Cruise,

1:26:531:26:54

Joe James-Moore,

dad of ten-year-old Harry.

1:26:541:27:00

He came to Watford last year that he

is now back in mainstream education.

1:27:001:27:04

-- to Hawkswood. How do you feel

with your son being taught in a

1:27:041:27:16

pupil referral unit?

I was quite

quiet about it at first. Not that

1:27:161:27:21

anyone necessarily says anything to

me that you can feel the pressure.

1:27:211:27:31

And Cruz is the odd one out, the

troublemaker. I didn't talk to other

1:27:311:27:36

parents about it but I felt the

stigma attached to him.

What about

1:27:361:27:39

you? There is a stigma for your

child?

Definitely. You do feel

1:27:391:27:48

singled out, your child feels

singled out. Because it has been

1:27:481:27:58

dealt with, parents look at you in a

certain way.

As though you are a bad

1:27:591:28:03

parent?

Yes. They might come to you

and say your child has done this or

1:28:031:28:09

that. I get that a lot. I did at the

mainstream school. It is really

1:28:091:28:18

heartbreaking. Trying to explain to

them as well. There are other things

1:28:181:28:28

prior to that.

1:28:281:28:37

prior to that. Education was more

needed and that is why the behaviour

1:28:371:28:39

side of things was out there. It is

really hard to try and say that.

Did

1:28:391:28:44

you feel a stigma for Logan?

Definitely. I was lucky with the

1:28:441:28:52

parents that school. Everybody knew

Logan.

What was he doing in class?

1:28:521:28:59

He would throw chairs, kick, lie

down on the floor kicking and

1:28:591:29:05

screaming. He had to be taken out of

class because of it. He would be

1:29:051:29:10

very aggressive.

Why do you think

that was?

Lack of structure. Lack of

1:29:101:29:17

understanding for him as well. When

he was in nursery they said that

1:29:171:29:21

Logan was having behavioural

problems and is there anything we

1:29:211:29:24

can do? I said this is what we do at

home and then fermented what I said,

1:29:241:29:29

they listened. But -- they

implemented what I said. But when we

1:29:291:29:37

went to school, they didn't listen,

they said they had other children to

1:29:371:29:41

look after.

Tell us about Cruz and

his behaviour at mainstream school.

1:29:411:29:47

You have other children and

presumably brought them up the same

1:29:471:29:50

way.

I feel that Cruz is wired

differently and they can conform and

1:29:501:29:55

he can't. A class of 30 kids sends

him... He struggles. He struggles

1:29:551:30:02

with sitting down on his own and I

understand the pressure on the

1:30:021:30:05

teacher and I feel for them but they

are not trained as the staff here

1:30:051:30:09

are to know what to do. They did not

know what to do with him. They would

1:30:091:30:14

ignore him and say they had given up

so he felt like nobody. When his

1:30:141:30:19

self-esteem was low, how do you get

a kid back?

1:30:191:30:25

least five how often have you

thought, as parents, this must be

1:30:251:30:30

down to me?

If he was my only kid, I

would have felt 100% responsible and

1:30:301:30:36

be questioning what the hell I have

done wrong. Because I have

1:30:361:30:41

fortunately got the comparison with

an older girl in university, they

1:30:411:30:46

are doing great, at the same school

as Cruz, fortunately I didn't feel I

1:30:461:30:53

have necessarily done anything

wrong, but people may well judge me

1:30:531:30:58

for that, I don't know. You still

feel responsible for your child.

1:30:581:31:02

Being a single parent as well, I

felt very low. My confidence and

1:31:021:31:07

that went really low as well, so I

really judge myself, you know.

You

1:31:071:31:16

judge yourself?

Of course, you do,

it is just so stressful as well, and

1:31:161:31:20

then you have got all that worries

and then try and be normal the next

1:31:201:31:25

day for your child.

Start afresh,

yeah. What is it like when you get

1:31:251:31:31

continual phone calls from your

child's school saying you will have

1:31:311:31:34

to come and pick them up? You have

been at work on many occasions when

1:31:341:31:38

you have had to come.

Yeah, I have

given myself a year out to be able

1:31:381:31:46

to... Still in mainstream school for

a year, it wasn't doing very well,

1:31:461:31:54

the dread, the phone call, even now

when the phone goes I say, what has

1:31:541:32:01

he done? And it is stressful, it is

very...

Joe, Harry is your youngest

1:32:011:32:09

of four sons, do you think you have

brought up your sons all the same

1:32:091:32:14

way?

I believe that we haven't made

any changes because of Harry being

1:32:141:32:19

the youngest, we have tried numerous

things, we have gone through all the

1:32:191:32:25

processes. We believe that nothing

we could do, and we thought...

What

1:32:251:32:40

sort of things was he doing?

Anything would kick him off, he

1:32:401:32:47

would start arguing, being

aggressive, he was just nasty - for

1:32:471:32:53

no real reason. We thought that it

may be was us, maybe was doing

1:32:531:33:00

something wrong. We took him to

specialists, and we had him tested.

1:33:001:33:05

They couldn't find anything wrong.

When the referral come here, my wife

1:33:051:33:12

was argument we were not going to

bring him here.

Because of the

1:33:121:33:19

stigma?

Yes, the feeling, the dread

that this would be his life, that

1:33:191:33:23

this would be where he would be

long.

Because you have the view, and

1:33:231:33:28

maybe this is true of all of you,

but I don't want to put words in

1:33:281:33:33

your mouth, if your child ends up in

a PRU, that is it for their future,

1:33:331:33:38

their life chances.

Exactly.

Not

necessarily yours?

I was in a

1:33:381:33:43

fortunate position because Cruz was

still at mainstream for a few days,

1:33:431:33:49

but the funding for that programme

has ended, and now he's back in

1:33:491:33:53

mainstream, and I am seeing the

signs of of going back to his old

1:33:531:33:58

ways. The mainstream school are

trying, but they are not equipped

1:33:581:34:01

like the staff here.

Were you

thinking that, Kerry, that if my son

1:34:011:34:06

comes to way PRU...?

It makes you

look at their life in a different

1:34:061:34:12

way, when you have a child, you have

their future set out, not directly,

1:34:121:34:17

but you think they will have a good

future, and because my eldest was so

1:34:171:34:20

easy to bring up, it was difficult

to come to terms with the fact that

1:34:201:34:25

this is a problem that can go on for

the rest of his life, something that

1:34:251:34:29

needs to be looked at, and descends

into a PRU, I was all for it when it

1:34:291:34:35

came to the nurturing group, because

Logan was here for that two years

1:34:351:34:39

ago, but when it comes to telling me

that it would be a permanent

1:34:391:34:44

fixture, that was something that was

really hard to come to terms two,

1:34:441:34:47

telling the these problems are not

just going to pass. This is

1:34:471:34:53

something that is lifelong, and he

will have to deal with for the rest

1:34:531:34:56

of his life.

And now what do you

think?

It is fantastic, it is

1:34:561:35:01

brilliant! All the problems, he has

still got them, he is very reserved,

1:35:011:35:06

and I can see the triggers, his jaw

will go tens when he gets anxious,

1:35:061:35:10

but now, if we go shopping, and he

says I want to throw the clothes all

1:35:101:35:15

over the floor and hide, I go, don't

do that, hold my hand, squeeze my

1:35:151:35:20

hand. You learn different

techniques. This morning he was

1:35:201:35:24

swimming, and he used to cling onto

me, and I took him swimming

1:35:241:35:28

yesterday, and he was jumping in the

water, actually swimming, opening

1:35:281:35:32

his eyes under the water, like a

completely different world that has

1:35:321:35:36

opened up, a new future, you know.

They really make them feel like they

1:35:361:35:42

are somebody who can achieve,

whereas in mainstream they are

1:35:421:35:45

failed, they will never get

anywhere. They come here and they

1:35:451:35:49

are somebody. Cruz has started to

run and play football. He would

1:35:491:35:53

never join in at school, he was

literally on the sidelines of

1:35:531:35:59

everything, assemblies,

performances, he wouldn't do it, and

1:35:591:36:02

now he is starting to believe,

because the staff here are amazing.

1:36:021:36:05

They tell them every day, you can do

this. They celebrate their

1:36:051:36:10

differences, rather than push them

to one side.

I am just going to have

1:36:101:36:14

a quick word, back with you in a

second, at any moment we're going to

1:36:141:36:18

cross to Jeremy Corbyn's speech, the

labour leader's speech on Brexit,

1:36:181:36:23

but I just want to make sure we get

these children in before the end of

1:36:231:36:28

the programme, P4 we hear from Mr

Corbyn. Jacob, Barrington, Andrew -

1:36:281:36:35

what is it like with your mum now

you have come here, in terms of your

1:36:351:36:39

relationship with your mum?

We have

never really had anything wrong, but

1:36:391:36:45

now that I am here, she is happy,

because before we are looking for a

1:36:451:36:55

long time, and now that she knows I

am in a nice place, she knows that I

1:36:551:37:00

am safer for when I grow up.

She

must be a lot happier.

Yeah.

What

1:37:001:37:07

about you, Jacob?

Well, my mum is

very pleased that I am integrating

1:37:071:37:12

back into a newsgroup.

Is it a new

skill?

Yes, a new one. -- a new

1:37:121:37:26

school. And she is just... Because

most of the time, I am making, all

1:37:261:37:32

of the time I am making good

choices, so she is very pleased

1:37:321:37:40

about that, and she is just happy

that I am having a good time there.

1:37:401:37:46

What about your family, Andrew? What

do they think of how you are getting

1:37:461:37:50

on here?

Good. Good and... My mum

likes that I have good reports. At

1:37:501:38:04

my old school, I never. And that I

am improving my work, and now I like

1:38:041:38:11

maths. Before, I never used to do.

And I am good at maths. That I have

1:38:111:38:18

changed my behaviour Twardzik, and

that is it.

Thank you. I am going to

1:38:181:38:27

go back to the parents, so thank you

so much for having us here, you are

1:38:271:38:32

amazing, thank you. Anne-Marie is

the mum of Keira. Thank you, cheers,

1:38:321:38:39

darling. Kerry is the mother of

Logan, Shelley is mother of Cruz,

1:38:391:38:46

and Joe is the dad of Harry, who is

now back in mainstream school. Do

1:38:461:38:53

you think that when a child goes to

a PRU, they mess about all day, do

1:38:531:39:00

you think people think it is a bit

of a holiday camp?

I think they do

1:39:001:39:04

think they must get away with

murder, because they have seen such

1:39:041:39:10

behaviour in mainstream school and

at home that they do not understand

1:39:101:39:13

how these children can be

controlled. Not controlled, you

1:39:131:39:17

know, but they don't understand how

they can sit in such a structured

1:39:171:39:20

setting.

There is a lot of

ignorance, because before this

1:39:201:39:25

programme, who would know what

happens in here? As a parent, before

1:39:251:39:29

I met the head teacher, I didn't

have a clue, I didn't know.

The head

1:39:291:39:36

teacher here, who has been so

accommodating over so many weeks,

1:39:361:39:39

and we are very grateful, given US

Open and transparent access, what

1:39:391:39:45

you think of how she has been with

her children.

It is amazing.

1:39:451:39:52

Literally life changing.

It is not

just the children, it makes a

1:39:521:39:58

difference to our lives, we can

relax, it helps us.

I have so much

1:39:581:40:08

to say about this lady, when I rang

up, I was in tears, very emotional,

1:40:081:40:12

and she made the time, brought me

into have a look around, and I sat

1:40:121:40:19

in her office, and everything came

out.

My favourite fact is that here

1:40:191:40:24

everybody listens to you.

She

listened.

Do you know what? She gave

1:40:241:40:30

me hope, she reassured me, don't

worry, we will help you.

And you are

1:40:301:40:36

very emotional hearing this!

I

really feel like, literally, I wish

1:40:361:40:43

I could say more, she gave me hope.

When I first came, I was literally

1:40:431:40:47

at the end of my tether.

I think

when I first came here, the first

1:40:471:40:54

thing that was said was, don't

worry, we won't be calling you

1:40:541:40:58

everyday! I was so confident, not in

myself, I can take my daughter in

1:40:581:41:06

now, I don't have to worry about it,

the stress is just...

Let me read

1:41:061:41:13

this e-mail from Christine, I am

watching this programme today with a

1:41:131:41:16

heavy heart and tears in my eyes. I

have worked in primary schools as a

1:41:161:41:21

teaching assistant, and sometimes

the unjustifiable results of a child

1:41:211:41:25

flying off the handle through no

fault of their own are sad. Children

1:41:251:41:28

who see a weakness in another child

often deliberately provoke them, and

1:41:281:41:31

the child with the weakness ends up

was off. I have seen it happen so

1:41:311:41:35

many times to the point where I have

gone home and cried. Another says,

1:41:351:41:42

such an inspirational PRU, the staff

are amazing, how fortunate are the

1:41:421:41:46

children who attend there? Abigail

says, I went to a wonderful PRU when

1:41:461:41:52

I was 14, but the school was

specifically for young people with

1:41:521:41:56

health problems that prevented them

from attending mainstream schools,

1:41:561:41:59

rather than for excluded pupils. The

school changed my life around when I

1:41:591:42:03

was too anxious to go into school,

when I was depressed and sell having

1:42:031:42:07

daily. The school has pupils with a

range of health problems, the

1:42:071:42:15

classes were much smaller than

mainstream, side and feel as anxious

1:42:151:42:18

in class. It was a quieter place to

do work if you are having a bad day

1:42:181:42:23

and couldn't cope. Jake says, I have

attended a unit since I was in year

1:42:231:42:27

nine, and I am currently in year 11.

I see petty violence, stabbings and

1:42:271:42:33

15-year-old addicts. Staff are

dedicated but are fighting a losing

1:42:331:42:36

battle. My damage was done earlier,

when I was refused support because

1:42:361:42:43

I, quote, didn't meet the criteria.

And this one, what a marvellous

1:42:431:42:47

school, I didn't really know PRUs

existed, and to such an extremely

1:42:471:42:50

high standard. The head teacher and

her staff are amazing and deserve

1:42:501:42:55

that in the medals. The children are

amazing too. To be able to learn to

1:42:551:43:00

make the right choices, albeit at an

additional cost at this stage of

1:43:001:43:03

their lives, is well worth it in my

opinion. They all seem to be very

1:43:031:43:08

bright and it will make a huge

difference in their adult lives.

1:43:081:43:11

Well done, everyone at Hawkswood, I

applaud you. What about the work you

1:43:111:43:15

do with parents like this? It is not

just about their children, is it?

1:43:151:43:20

Yeah, absolutely, we don't have a

huge amount of resource to do as

1:43:201:43:24

much parental work as we would like

to, but what we do try and do is

1:43:241:43:29

keep the communication going with

the parents. And actually just

1:43:291:43:31

giving them their confidence back,

because their confidence has been

1:43:311:43:35

knocked as well. And actually

helping them do understand that we

1:43:351:43:40

can see in their child what they can

see in that child, their child,

1:43:401:43:44

which some other people struggle to

sometimes see in their child because

1:43:441:43:49

the behaviour blocks that.

Right.

How much did you worry before your

1:43:491:43:53

children came here about your

child's future?

Because of his

1:43:531:44:01

behaviour, we were in fear, of its

escalating, you could only see one

1:44:011:44:05

path forward, and it could have got

worse. You know, there was no tunnel

1:44:051:44:10

to go through to see, and we have

hit a brick wall now, nowhere to go.

1:44:101:44:21

All you were seeing was bad, and

with Logan, he went down and down

1:44:211:44:25

and down, got worse and worse and

worse.

His self-esteem got to the

1:44:251:44:32

point where he always wanted to work

with animals, PA vet, and one day he

1:44:321:44:37

said, I can't be a vet, and I said,

of course you can, but he said, I

1:44:371:44:43

can't read or write, and I'm never

going to be able to learn. I said to

1:44:431:44:48

him, no, you will, we will find a

way to get you there.

I am going to

1:44:481:44:54

pause there, because we are told

Jeremy Corbyn is on his way to do is

1:44:541:44:57

Brexit speech. Thank you so much for

being so candid with us, we really

1:44:571:45:02

appreciate it. We need to thank you

so much, we are so grateful, thank

1:45:021:45:06

you for letting us into your school.

Children, thank you very much for

1:45:061:45:11

having us here bye! OK, we're going

to cross now to Norman Smith, who

1:45:111:45:19

was waiting for Jeremy Corbyn's

speech.

1:45:191:45:25

Thanks very much indeed, a big

moment today for Jeremy Corbyn,

1:45:291:45:32

putting more flesh on the bones of

Labour's Brexit strategy, and what

1:45:321:45:37

seems to be emerging is a clear

divide between Labour on the Tories

1:45:371:45:41

over Brexit with Jeremy Corbyn

outlining a much softer approach to

1:45:411:45:45

Brexit, saying, for example, we

should stay in a customs union, and

1:45:451:45:49

we know Theresa May has ruled that

out, but also warm words about

1:45:491:45:53

staying close to the single market.

Again, something that Theresa May

1:45:531:45:58

has ruled out, and that could pave

the way for Jeremy Corbyn to work

1:45:581:46:06

with Conservative Remainers and

potentially De Vita Mrs May in the

1:46:061:46:09

Commons over Brexit. So the stakes

are high today, because we do have,

1:46:091:46:15

perhaps for the first time now, a

clear divide between the two parties

1:46:151:46:21

over Brexit, with Mr Corbyn setting

out a sort of Brexit light, a much

1:46:211:46:25

softer version of Brexit. The key is

how will those Brexit supporting

1:46:251:46:34

Labour MPs and voters, mainly in

traditional Labour seats, how will

1:46:341:46:36

they react to this? Will they turn

away from Labour? Also unknown, how

1:46:361:46:44

will the EU react? Mr Corbyn has not

said anything about freedom of

1:46:441:46:48

movement, whether we will keep

paying money into the EU, the sorts

1:46:481:46:52

of things you have got to do if you

want a close arrangement with the

1:46:521:46:55

single market.

1:46:551:47:00

single market. Now this will be the

first time we have rarely heard from

1:47:021:47:05

Jeremy Corbyn in this amount of

detail. At the moment Labour has

1:47:051:47:11

adopted a somewhat ambiguous

approach to Brexit, in part because

1:47:111:47:15

they have been trying to keep the

different wings of their party

1:47:151:47:22

together and so Mr Corbyn has not

wanted to be too specific. But now

1:47:221:47:26

we are moving to the nitty-gritty

Brexit, the sharp end of those

1:47:261:47:30

negotiations, when the government is

having to spell out their detailed

1:47:301:47:34

policies. So Labour are having to

spell out their detailed policies as

1:47:341:47:40

well. The time for airy fairy waffle

is beginning to pass. Interestingly,

1:47:401:47:46

on Friday we are expecting Theresa

May to set out a detailed approach

1:47:461:47:49

to Brexit. We are getting to the

sharp end of the whole process. As I

1:47:491:47:56

say, that will be followed by some

knife edge voting in the Commons.

1:47:561:48:02

Tory Remainers are threatening to

vote against Mrs May on the issue of

1:48:021:48:06

a customs union. Exactly the issue

that Jeremy Corbyn will today is

1:48:061:48:10

say, yes, we agree we should remain

in a customs union. The government

1:48:101:48:16

has pushed back the timetable for

that vote. It may not happen until

1:48:161:48:21

after Easter. Let's listen to what

Mr Corbyn has got to say.

We send

1:48:211:48:26

our condolences to those who have

lost their lives in Leicester last

1:48:261:48:29

night. We thank the emergency

services, the police, the fire and

1:48:291:48:35

ambulance and local residents for

all the help and support they gave

1:48:351:48:38

to the victims of that tragedy last

night. I have got to also say a big

1:48:381:48:44

thank you to Coventry University for

allowing us this space this morning.

1:48:441:48:49

Ultrahigh tech all around us. The

modern Labour Party! Ultrahigh tech!

1:48:491:48:54

You are meant to laugh at that

point! Thank you. And the work that

1:48:541:49:00

Coventry University does in

cutting-edge technology, research

1:49:001:49:04

technology, and ensuring that the

skills of decades in Coventry that

1:49:041:49:09

built aircraft, and cars, and so

much else, are developed into the

1:49:091:49:16

high-tech that we want for the 21st

century of sustainable industries

1:49:161:49:19

and sustainable technology. And I

thank the shadow ministers who are

1:49:191:49:25

here today. Rebecca Long-Bailey he

was doing an incredible job on

1:49:251:49:29

business and trade. Mary Garda is

doing a great job on trade itself.

1:49:291:49:32

Thank you. And Keir Starmer who has

done such a brilliant job in holding

1:49:321:49:39

the government to account and

forcing them to retreat time after

1:49:391:49:43

time on the issue Brexit

negotiations. Thank you very much

1:49:431:49:45

for being here. And welcome the

commentary MPs for being here today.

1:49:451:49:51

Thank you very much indeed. The city

of Coventry. And also Geoffrey

1:49:511:49:56

Robinson for the incredible work you

did on Friday on the organ donors

1:49:561:50:00

bill in Parliament. It has made an

incredible difference to the lives

1:50:001:50:03

of many people.

1:50:031:50:08

of many people. Britain's industrial

heartland is where we are now. It is

1:50:131:50:16

now set to be our next City of

Culture. Well done, Coventry, on

1:50:161:50:21

that. I look forward to joining in

the City of Culture celebrations. I

1:50:211:50:25

was given a book of photography

within the Asian community this

1:50:251:50:28

morning by the university which I

will treasure. Thank you. Next month

1:50:281:50:33

the government will embark on the

second and most crucial phase of

1:50:331:50:37

negotiations to leave the European

Union, to set the terms of Britain's

1:50:371:50:40

relationship with the EU for the

long-term. We are now 20 months on

1:50:401:50:45

from the referendum that voted to

leave, and a year on from the

1:50:451:50:49

triggering of Article 50. But the

country is still in the dark about

1:50:491:50:54

what this divided Conservative

government actually wants out of

1:50:541:50:56

Brexit. They cannot agree amongst

themselves on what their priorities

1:50:561:51:03

are or what future they want for

Britain after Brexit. They have got

1:51:031:51:08

no shortage of sound bites and

slogans of course. The Foreign

1:51:081:51:11

Secretary says it will be a liberal

Brexit. The Prime Ministers says it

1:51:111:51:15

will be a red, white and blue

Brexit. On other days it is a

1:51:151:51:20

bespoke economic partnership. The

Brexit Secretary at least now

1:51:201:51:23

promises it will not be a Mad Max

style dystopia. You might think that

1:51:231:51:30

is setting the bar a little low! The

trade secretary cannot contain

1:51:301:51:34

himself at the prospect of putting

Britain into a spiral of

1:51:341:51:38

deregulation in rights and

standards. The Cabinet seems to have

1:51:381:51:42

agreed at Chequers to leave the door

open to that while there are

1:51:421:51:45

ambitious managed version goes on,

whatever that means. The truth is we

1:51:451:51:52

really don't know much more about

where they are actually heading in

1:51:521:51:55

these talks. Workers, businesses and

everybody who voted in a referendum

1:51:551:51:58

just wants to know what the

government's approach to Brexit is

1:51:581:52:03

likely to mean for their future and

the future of the country. As the

1:52:031:52:09

opposition, we have been trying to

hold this government to account. We

1:52:091:52:12

have a duty to do that. Our message

has been consistent since the vote

1:52:121:52:16

to leave 20 months ago. We respect

the result of the referendum. Our

1:52:161:52:22

priority is to get the best deal for

people's jobs, living standards and

1:52:221:52:26

the economy, as Becky was explaining

in her opening remarks. We reject

1:52:261:52:30

any race to the bottom in worker'

rights, environmental safeguards,

1:52:301:52:36

consumer protections and food safety

standards. And we have pushed the

1:52:361:52:40

government to act, to guarantee the

rights of European Union citizens

1:52:401:52:43

living here and of UK citizens who

have made their homes elsewhere in

1:52:431:52:49

Europe. I want to thank all those EU

nationals who have made their homes

1:52:491:52:55

here, made such an incredible

contribution to our communities, our

1:52:551:52:58

lives and our public services, and

say to the government it is a shame

1:52:581:53:02

on them they have been through 20

months of uncertain horror because

1:53:021:53:06

there have been no guarantees of

their future. We will protect their

1:53:061:53:11

rights by legislating immediately to

guarantee permanent residence for EU

1:53:111:53:14

nationals living here and the right

to bring their families here.

1:53:141:53:21

APPLAUSE

1:53:211:53:23

We also want to ensure a transition

period on the existing terms.

That

1:53:261:53:31

was a very strong point that Keir

and other colleagues put in

1:53:311:53:35

Parliament that would minimise

disruption and avoid an economic

1:53:351:53:37

cliff edge. To avoid any return to a

hardboard in Northern Ireland. And

1:53:371:53:43

to guarantee Parliament a meaningful

vote on the final deal. The

1:53:431:53:53

Conservative government has dithered

and delayed. Their incompetence and

1:53:531:53:58

deregulation obsession has risked

putting jobs and living standards at

1:53:581:54:01

risk as we leave the European Union.

This is an economy that has already

1:54:011:54:05

been damaged by eight years of

Conservative austerity. Where wages

1:54:051:54:10

are still lower today than they were

a decade ago, where productivity

1:54:101:54:15

lags dangerously behind other major

economies, where the government has

1:54:151:54:19

failed to invest and modernise.

Where more people are living in

1:54:191:54:24

poverty. And where closing the

deficit that was due to be

1:54:241:54:28

eradicated in 2015, then 2016, then

2017, then 2020, has now been put

1:54:281:54:39

back to 2025. After years of Tory

blast and slogans, the Conservatives

1:54:391:54:45

have been found out. They have no

economic plan and they have no

1:54:451:54:51

Brexit plan. Every so often they

wheel out Boris Johnson to promise

1:54:511:54:56

once more that they will cough up

more money for the NHS after Brexit.

1:54:561:55:03

And they have spent the last eight

years not giving money to the

1:55:031:55:07

National Health Service that so

desperately needs it. Even while

1:55:071:55:12

they have been able to find billions

of pounds, billions, to cut taxes

1:55:121:55:18

for the richest corporations, to cut

capital gains tax for the super-rich

1:55:181:55:22

elite, and to scrap the 50% rate for

the richest as well. And found

1:55:221:55:28

billions more to cut inheritance tax

on the wealthiest estates, and to

1:55:281:55:34

slash the bank levy. Yet the

National Health Service has been

1:55:341:55:37

subjected to the longest financial

squeeze in its history. This is a

1:55:371:55:44

government that failed our NHS

pro-Brexit and during Brexit, and

1:55:441:55:49

certainly cannot be trusted with the

NHS post-Brexit. Labour will give

1:55:491:55:55

the NHS the resources it needs. We

will raise tax on the top 5% and big

1:55:551:56:00

businesses. Those with the broadest

shoulders to pay, not by making up

1:56:001:56:05

numbers and parading them on the

side of a bus. We will use the funds

1:56:051:56:11

returned from Brussels after Brexit

to invest in our public services and

1:56:111:56:15

the jobs of the future. Not tax cuts

for the richest.

1:56:151:56:20

APPLAUSE

1:56:201:56:27

Today I want to set out Labour's

approach to Brexit in more detail,

1:56:281:56:32

how we would do things differently,

what our priorities are for the

1:56:321:56:37

Brexit negotiation and the values

that underpin it. The first is our

1:56:371:56:43

overriding mission that whatever is

negotiated must put people's jobs

1:56:431:56:47

and living standards first. The

Brexit process must not leave our

1:56:471:56:52

people and country worse off. We are

committed to building a more

1:56:521:56:57

prosperous and more equal Britain.

In which every region, every region,

1:56:571:57:06

benefits and no community,

absolutely no community is left

1:57:061:57:10

behind. As we set out in our

manifesto, and that is what

1:57:101:57:14

underpins our approach to Brexit.

The second is unity. Most people in

1:57:141:57:21

our country, regardless of whether

they voted leave or remain, want

1:57:211:57:25

better jobs, more investment,

stronger rights and greater

1:57:251:57:30

equality. So we will not let those

who want to sow divisions drive this

1:57:301:57:37

process. No scapegoating of

migrants. No setting when generation

1:57:371:57:42

against another. And no playing of

the nations of the UK.

1:57:421:57:45

APPLAUSE

1:57:451:57:47

No one should be willing to

sacrifice the Good Friday Agreement,

1:57:551:57:58

the bases of 20 years of relative

peace and development and respect

1:57:581:58:02

for diversity in Northern Ireland.

The Good Friday Agreement was a huge

1:58:021:58:13

achievement and on this anniversary

of it, let's respect that and the

1:58:131:58:16

achievements that went behind it and

not allow that to be undermined

1:58:161:58:19

during the Brexit process. The third

is our global perspective. We are

1:58:191:58:27

leaving the European Union but we

are not leaving Europe. We are not

1:58:271:58:32

throwing up protectionist barriers,

closing the borders and barricading

1:58:321:58:35

ourselves in. And we want a close

and cooperative relationship with

1:58:351:58:40

the whole of Europe after Brexit. We

are a party of internationalists. We

1:58:401:58:49

know that our interests are bound up

with millions of others all across

1:58:491:58:52

the globe. Whether that is in order

to tackle the huge challenges of

1:58:521:59:00

climate change, build a more

peaceful world, or clamp down on the

1:59:001:59:04

tax dodging elite who think by

bestriding the clothes they can

1:59:041:59:11

avoid paying their share for vital

public services. -- the globe. I

1:59:111:59:18

want to address each of these

principles today because together

1:59:181:59:22

they define Labour's approach to

Brexit. The Labour Party's values

1:59:221:59:27

and what the next Labour Party

government will seek to deliver in

1:59:271:59:30

office. So many of the areas that

voted to leave the same areas that

1:59:301:59:39

have lost out from years of chronic

underinvestment. Areas where too

1:59:391:59:44

many people are held back by the

lack of opportunities. Where people

1:59:441:59:53

fail. The system is rigged against

them will stop because they can't

1:59:531:59:58

get a decent, secure job, can't

afford to buy a home, can't get more

1:59:582:00:03

hours or higher pay, can't afford to

retire or are not able to escape the

2:00:032:00:08

spiral of debt. You can't replace

jobs like mining with Sports Direct

2:00:082:00:22

and jobs like that. We are

determined to change that.

2:00:222:00:25

Our priority is to get the best jobs

and living standards, upgrade the

2:00:302:00:37

economy and invest in every

community and region and shift it

2:00:372:00:41

away from the low paid, low skilled,

low investment economy it has become

2:00:412:00:46

under the Tories and the balance

that investment across the country

2:00:462:00:51

so no longer will some regions get a

mere one sixth of the capital

2:00:512:00:56

investment that goes to London.

That's why Labour were once the

2:00:562:01:01

Brexit for all our people, one that

offers security to workers in the

2:01:012:01:05

car industry worried about their

future, hope to families struggling

2:01:052:01:09

to pay the bills and opportunities

to young people wanting a decent job

2:01:092:01:14

and the home of their own. These are

the people we are thinking of and

2:01:142:01:20

working for. It is a very different

story around the mahogany table in

2:01:202:01:29

Chequers. The Government seems much

more concerned about cutting deals

2:01:292:01:34

with each other for their friends

and funders from the City of London.

2:01:342:01:40

Labour is looking for a Brexit that

puts the working people first

2:01:402:01:44

leaving the EU, whatever that exit

the ends, risks delivering a shock

2:01:442:01:50

to the economy and less the right

plans and protections are in place.

2:01:502:01:56

To allow the kind of investment and

economic transformation programme

2:01:562:02:00

the country needs and that Labour is

committed to. For 45 years of

2:02:002:02:07

economy has become increasingly

linked to the European Union and

2:02:072:02:11

many of our laws and regulations set

and monitored by a joint European

2:02:112:02:16

authorities, from implementing rules

on the use of pesticides to

2:02:162:02:19

assessing levels of fluoride in

drinking water. The EU food safety

2:02:192:02:24

authority plays a vital role in

monitoring the substances used in

2:02:242:02:29

manufacturing or growing our food.

Using the latest scientific evidence

2:02:292:02:33

to assess what the substances are

likely to have harmful effects on

2:02:332:02:39

humans or animals. The European

chemicals agency carries out the

2:02:392:02:42

vital task of evaluating and

authorising chemicals as safe for

2:02:422:02:46

use. Many businesses up supply

chains and production processes

2:02:462:02:51

interwoven throughout Europe. Take

the UK car industry, which supports

2:02:512:02:59

169,000 manufacturing jobs. 52,000

of which in the West Midlands. If we

2:02:592:03:04

look at the example of one of

Britain's most iconic brands, the

2:03:042:03:10

mini. We begin to see how reliant on

automotive industry is on the

2:03:102:03:16

friction was interwoven Supply

train. A Mini will cross the Channel

2:03:162:03:21

three times in the 2000 mile journey

before the finished car rolls off

2:03:212:03:26

the production line. Starting in

Oxford it will be shipped to France

2:03:262:03:31

to be fitted for key components

before being brought back to BMW's

2:03:312:03:37

plant in Warwickshire where it is

drilled into shape. Once that

2:03:372:03:42

process is complete, it will be sent

to Munich to be fitted with its

2:03:422:03:46

engine before ending its journey

back at the Mini plant in Oxford for

2:03:462:03:51

final assembly. If that car is to be

sold on the continent many of which

2:03:512:04:00

components will have crossed the

Channel four times. The sheer

2:04:002:04:03

complexity of this demand we are

practical and serious about this

2:04:032:04:07

next stage. I want to pay tribute to

those grappling with these issues on

2:04:072:04:19

my, they are serious and United. I

do not do personal in politics but

2:04:192:04:24

let me simply say it is in a bit of

a contrast to what is going on the

2:04:242:04:27

other side of the House of Commons

chamber, I will leave it at that. It

2:04:272:04:33

makes no sense for the UK to abandon

EU agencies and tariff free trading

2:04:332:04:41

rules that have served us well,

supporting other industrial sectors

2:04:412:04:45

and protecting workers and consumers

and safeguarding the environment. If

2:04:452:04:48

that means negotiating to support

individual EU agencies, rather than

2:04:482:04:54

paying more money to duplicate those

agencies here, that should be an

2:04:542:05:01

option, not something ruled out

because of some phoney jingoistic

2:05:012:05:06

posturing by the Foreign Secretary.

We well want to remain a part of

2:05:062:05:11

agencies that regulate nuclear

materials and, crucially, and health

2:05:112:05:17

sectors as well. Programmes like in

Rasmus, from which this university

2:05:172:05:22

benefits greatly assurance from

Britain survey across Europe and

2:05:222:05:27

vice versa, that enriches the lives

of students on both sides of the

2:05:272:05:31

Channel and across the continent. It

serves our interests and interests

2:05:312:05:35

of young people all across Europe to

maintain membership of that

2:05:352:05:40

programme. We are leaving the EU but

we are still working with European

2:05:402:05:45

partners in the economic interests

of our country. When 44% of our

2:05:452:05:50

exports are to the EU countries and

50% of our imports come from the EU,

2:05:502:05:56

it is an both our interests, both

our interest, for that to remain

2:05:562:06:02

tariff free. It would damage

businesses that export to Europe and

2:06:022:06:06

the jobs depend on those exports for

there to be the additional costs of

2:06:062:06:11

tariffs. It would damage consumers

here, already failed by stagnant

2:06:112:06:16

wages and rapidly rising housing

costs. So, we will remain close to

2:06:162:06:23

the EU, that is obvious, every

country, Turkey, Switzerland and

2:06:232:06:28

Norway, that is geographically close

to the EU without being a member

2:06:282:06:32

state has some sort of close

relationship with the EU. Some are

2:06:322:06:37

more advantageous than others and

Britain will need a bespoke

2:06:372:06:41

negotiated relationship of its own.

During the transition period, which

2:06:412:06:45

was proposed by Labour in the first

place, we would seek to remain an a

2:06:452:06:52

customs union with the EU and within

the single market. That means we

2:06:522:06:57

would abide by existing rules of

both during transition. That the

2:06:572:07:03

Saudi Government, businesses and

workers only have to make one

2:07:032:07:06

adjustment from that -- that is so

the Government and businesses and

2:07:062:07:11

workers only have to make one

adjustment. We spelt out the need

2:07:112:07:15

for a stable transition period last

summer and both the TUC and CBI

2:07:152:07:20

agree on that. We thought the

Government had accepted that but now

2:07:202:07:24

they seem to be very surprisingly,

in disarray on this issue yet again.

2:07:242:07:29

Time after time with this Government

is anything aggrieved at breakfast

2:07:292:07:33

is being briefed against by lunch

and abandoned by tea-time --

2:07:332:07:38

anything agreed at breakfast. This

agreement, it seems, is the new

2:07:382:07:44

strong and stable. The Government's

division risks costly adjustments

2:07:442:07:49

for both Government and business

from the current terms to the

2:07:492:07:53

transitional terms and begin to the

final terms. Labour would seek a

2:07:532:07:57

final deal giving full access to

European markets and maintains the

2:07:572:08:01

benefits of the single market and

customs union as the Brexit

2:08:012:08:06

secretary David Davis promised in

the House of Commons, with no new

2:08:062:08:10

impediments to trade or reductions

in rights, standards and

2:08:102:08:13

protections. We long argued a

customs union is a viable option for

2:08:132:08:18

the final deal so we would seek to

negotiate a new, comprehensive UK EU

2:08:182:08:24

customs union to ensure there are no

tariffs with Europe and help avoid

2:08:242:08:29

any needs whatsoever for the hard

border in Northern Ireland.

2:08:292:08:34

APPLAUSE but we are also clear up

the option of a new customs union

2:08:342:08:45

with the EU would need to ensure we

have a say in new trade deals, it

2:08:452:08:55

would require us to be able to

negotiate new trade deals and the

2:08:552:08:59

national interest.

We would not countenance a deal

2:08:592:09:03

living Britain a passive recipient

of rules decided by others that

2:09:032:09:08

would mean is ending up as a rule

taker. In contrast, the Government

2:09:082:09:13

has ended up seeing -- move from

saying it wanted trade with the EU

2:09:132:09:19

to be tariff free to then saying it

wanted it to be as having as

2:09:192:09:24

possible, quite a change. In which

governments area as the Government

2:09:242:09:29

think it would be acceptable for

there to be tariffs? They should let

2:09:292:09:32

us know, like so much else, they

have not spelt that out. That is the

2:09:322:09:39

consequence of ruling out the option

of a customs union, which the

2:09:392:09:44

Government has done. I appealed to

MPs of all parties, be prepared to

2:09:442:09:49

put the people's interest ahead of

ideological fight disease and join

2:09:492:09:54

us in supporting the option of a new

customs union with the EU. Labour

2:09:542:10:01

respects the referendum result and

Britain is leaving the EU but we

2:10:012:10:06

will not support any Saudi deal that

would do lasting damage to jobs,

2:10:062:10:11

writes -- we would not support any

Tory deal that would reduce rights

2:10:112:10:18

and standards. We do not believe

deals with the USA China would be

2:10:182:10:23

likely to compensate for a

significant loss of trade with our

2:10:232:10:28

neighbours in the European Union and

the Government's or leaked

2:10:282:10:32

assessment is sure exactly that.

Both the United States and China

2:10:322:10:37

have much weaker standards and

regulations. Those deals with risk

2:10:372:10:43

dragging Britain into a race to the

bottom on vital protections and

2:10:432:10:50

other rights at work. Environment,

consumer and rights at work are very

2:10:502:10:55

central to everything the Labour

Party believes in. Let me make this

2:10:552:11:01

clear, we are implacably opposed to

our NHS or any other public services

2:11:012:11:06

being part of a trade deal with

Donald Trump's America or a revived

2:11:062:11:14

transatlantic trade investment

partnership deal with the EU which

2:11:142:11:17

would open the door to a flood of

further privatisations of public

2:11:172:11:22

services and our NHS.

APPLAUSE and we are not prepared to

2:11:222:11:34

ask the British public to eat

chlorinated chicken and lower the

2:11:342:11:38

standards of British farming.

We would ensure there will be no

2:11:382:11:44

reduction in rights, standards

protections and instead seek to

2:11:442:11:47

extend them. EBay -- the like

relation -- deregulation and a race

2:11:472:11:55

to the bottom with damage standards

and we would renegotiate a view

2:11:552:12:02

tariff free access to the single

market and protections of existing

2:12:022:12:09

standards. That would need to ensure

we can deliver our ambitious

2:12:092:12:14

economic programme to take essential

steps to intervene, upgrades and

2:12:142:12:19

transform our economy, to build an

economy for the 21st-century that

2:12:192:12:24

works for the many, not just the

few. Labour has set out how we will

2:12:242:12:30

create a national investment bank to

drive investment in every community

2:12:302:12:36

through a network of regional

development banks. So every area has

2:12:362:12:41

an industrial strategy based on

investments in a high skill, high

2:12:412:12:48

wage, high productivity economy, and

through our 500 billion national

2:12:482:12:53

transformation fund, we would invest

in a decade-long programme of

2:12:532:12:58

renewal so Britain has the

infrastructure that matches, if not

2:12:582:13:02

exceeds that, of other major

economies. An hour transport

2:13:022:13:07

networks, energy markets and our

digital infrastructure too often

2:13:072:13:11

Britain is well behind. We would

also seek to negotiate protections

2:13:112:13:17

and publications or exceptions,

where necessary, in relation to

2:13:172:13:22

privatisation of public service

competition directives. State aid

2:13:222:13:25

procurement rules and the workers'

directive. We cannot be held back

2:13:252:13:34

inside or outside the EU from taking

these steps we need to support

2:13:342:13:38

cutting edge industries and local

businesses and stop the tide of

2:13:382:13:43

privatisation and outsourcing. Or

for preventing employers being able

2:13:432:13:48

to import cheap agency labour to

undercut existing pay and conditions

2:13:482:13:55

and resulting in a grotesque levels

of exploitation of vulnerable

2:13:552:13:59

workers and loss of jobs to others

and the huge profits to the employer

2:13:592:14:04

in the middle of that. We would deal

with that.

2:14:042:14:08

APPLAUSE.

It was alarming that after the

2:14:082:14:16

Brexit vote there was a clear rise

in xenophobic and racist attacks on

2:14:162:14:21

our streets. The referendum campaign

was divisive and some politicians on

2:14:212:14:28

the leaves side with top fears and

division to further their cause.

2:14:282:14:34

That built on a shameful fans

telling arrogance to go home that

2:14:342:14:38

the then Home Secretary instructed

to trundle around the country,

2:14:382:14:44

stirring up division. I remember

just after the referendum result

2:14:442:14:47

receiving a text from a young person

and my constituency who had been

2:14:472:14:51

subjected to abuse in the state for

the first time in his life for being

2:14:512:14:57

abused for what he is and he was

very afraid. Our immigration system

2:14:572:15:03

will change and freedom of movement

will end when we leave the EU but we

2:15:032:15:08

have also said in the trade

negotiations priorities, growth,

2:15:082:15:16

jobs and living standards for

people. We make no apologies were

2:15:162:15:20

putting those games before bogus

immigration targets. Labour would

2:15:202:15:24

design our immigration policy based

on fair rules and reasonable

2:15:242:15:33

management of migration. Our

national health is suffering and

2:15:332:15:43

large EU staff numbers have gone

home already but we want to turn

2:15:432:15:47

that around. They are welcome to

stay and work here because we need

2:15:472:15:52

them here and we need their skills

and dedication and other labour we

2:15:522:15:57

will make sure that happens.

APPLAUSE.

2:15:572:16:03

Not starting from rigid and work out

what that means afterwards. Diane

2:16:062:16:11

Abbott said last week, we do not

begin with how we reduce immigration

2:16:112:16:18

and to hell with the consequences,

these are Tory policies and values.

2:16:182:16:23

Part of the reason net migration has

been relatively high in recent years

2:16:232:16:27

is because of the skills shortage in

the UK labour market. At the general

2:16:272:16:33

election Labour set out plans to

invest in a national education

2:16:332:16:37

service with free college,

university training places to tackle

2:16:372:16:42

those shortages and not drive young

people into debt just because they

2:16:422:16:46

want to get a university education.

APPLAUSE

2:16:462:16:52

People also feel frustrated when

they are denied opportunities to

2:16:522:16:59

re-train or improve their skills and

employers instead import skilled

2:16:592:17:02

labour from elsewhere. We will also

restore free English as a second

2:17:022:17:07

language courses so people who come

here whether as migrants or refugees

2:17:072:17:11

can learn and -- English and

participate in their workplaces. And

2:17:112:17:22

tighten labour regulations,

strengthen trade union rights,

2:17:222:17:25

tackle insecurity and exploitation

of all workers. When migrant workers

2:17:252:17:31

come to Britain they must not be

exploited or used to undercut or

2:17:312:17:33

suppress better working conditions

or higher pay. Those issues can only

2:17:332:17:38

be tackled by stronger employment

law to stop employers being able to

2:17:382:17:43

import cheap agency labour to

undercut existing pay and

2:17:432:17:46

conditions. Collective agreements

and central bargaining must become

2:17:462:17:51

the norm. Labour stands for the rate

for the job not a race to the

2:17:512:17:57

bottom.

APPLAUSE

2:17:572:17:57

. It is not migrants who drive down

wages, it is bad employers who can't

2:17:572:18:08

pay and bad Government to allow

workers to be divided and

2:18:082:18:11

undermined.

APPLAUSE

2:18:112:18:12

And what -- they want unions to be

weak and passive. We will strengthen

2:18:122:18:20

our employment law. Invest in the

skills of workers in Britain so they

2:18:202:18:24

can progress. And oppose all those

who instead of seeking to solve

2:18:242:18:29

problems seek to scapegoat instead.

The evolution of the last Labour

2:18:292:18:35

Government completed the peace

process in Northern Ireland which we

2:18:352:18:38

must cherish. -- devolution. And I

pay tribute to Tony Blair and all

2:18:382:18:51

those who worked so hard on the Good

Friday Agreement. We must continue

2:18:512:18:56

to support the restoration of the

Northern Ireland assembly and made

2:18:562:19:01

sure -- make sure we maintain the

border. Established Scotland and

2:19:012:19:12

Wales Parliament and assembly.

Labour believes powers of a devolved

2:19:122:19:17

policy areas currently exercised by

the EU should go directly to the

2:19:172:19:21

relevant body involved after Brexit.

That power is closer to the people.

2:19:212:19:27

That is the same principle that

involves the regional development

2:19:272:19:32

backs that the next Labour

Government will develop. Including a

2:19:322:19:39

commitment to support the United

Nations, and a promise to secure

2:19:392:19:49

peace, freedom, democracy, economic

freedom and environmental protection

2:19:492:19:50

for all. Some want to use Brexit to

turn Britain on itself, seeing

2:19:502:19:59

everyone has a feared competitor.

Others want to use Brexit to put

2:19:592:20:02

rocket boosters under our current

economic systems, insecurities and

2:20:022:20:08

inequalities was the turning Britain

into a de-regulated corporate tax

2:20:082:20:13

haven with low wages, limited rights

and cut-price public services in

2:20:132:20:18

what would be a destructive race to

the bottom. Labour stands for a

2:20:182:20:24

completely different future. Drawing

on the best internationalist

2:20:242:20:28

traditions of the labour movement

and of this country. We want to see

2:20:282:20:32

close cooperative relations with our

neighbours outside the EU based on

2:20:322:20:39

values of internationalism,

solidarity and a quality. As well as

2:20:392:20:43

mutual benefit and Eritrea. --

equality. Fair trade. 1948 human

2:20:432:20:55

rights, and the Human Rights Act in

showing that in law so Labour will

2:20:552:21:01

continue to work with other European

allies including through Europe to

2:21:012:21:07

ensure our country and others uphold

our international obligations. We

2:21:072:21:11

must work with other countries to

advance the cause of human rights.

2:21:112:21:14

To confront the four greatest

interconnected threats facing our

2:21:142:21:21

common humanity. First, the growing

concentration of unaccountable

2:21:212:21:28

wealth and power in the hands of a

tiny global corporate elite. We must

2:21:282:21:37

challenge that, working with our

European neighbours to stop those

2:21:372:21:41

who play one country off and other

or those who hide their wealth

2:21:412:21:46

offshore in order to avoid paying

their dues to fund the public

2:21:462:21:54

services that they all use at some

point in their lives. Second,

2:21:542:21:58

climate change, which is creating

instability and fuelling conflict

2:21:582:22:02

across the world. And threatening

all of our futures. No matter how

2:22:022:22:07

much we inform them pollution,

stubbornly, dishes factory --

2:22:072:22:15

disrespectfully refuses to respect

borders. We can only improve

2:22:152:22:21

environmental degradation and

pollution by working together as

2:22:212:22:25

many of our closest allies in that

struggle are in Europe. The Green

2:22:252:22:29

Alliance estimates trade in

low-carbon goods and services

2:22:292:22:33

contributed over 42 billion to the

economy in 2015. The UK low carbon

2:22:332:22:39

and renewable energy sector was it

-- inspected to increase by four by

2:22:392:22:45

2030 potentially bringing 2 million

jobs and contributing more than 8%

2:22:452:22:49

to the UK's national output. That

needs us to maintain our standards

2:22:492:22:54

and ensure barrier free trade in

low-carbon goods. Those include

2:22:542:23:02

eco-design and energy labelling

standards, greenhouse gas emission

2:23:022:23:05

standards for vehicles and internal

energy market product standard

2:23:052:23:13

services, chemical radiation and

nuclear safety and safeguards. The

2:23:132:23:16

importance of getting our Brexit

settlement right is vital in this

2:23:162:23:20

area both in terms of the industrial

role of Britain in reducing climate

2:23:202:23:25

change and protecting jobs and

industry. Third, there are

2:23:252:23:31

unprecedented numbers of people

fleeing conflict, persecution,

2:23:312:23:37

social breakdown, humans rights

abuses and climate disaster. The

2:23:372:23:42

global refugee crisis is huge. There

are 65 million refugees across the

2:23:422:23:48

world. That is the equivalent of the

entire population of Britain. That

2:23:482:23:53

crisis is a challenge, much of which

is on the borders of Europe. That

2:23:532:23:57

challenge can be met by coordinating

with neighbours both to crack down

2:23:572:24:03

on people smugglers who put men,

women and children in and vessels.

2:24:032:24:10

Operations have tried to rescue

those from BC seas as too many

2:24:102:24:15

desperate people are drowning in

pursuit of the century. These are

2:24:152:24:19

people -- rescue from the seas. They

suffer from cruelty, but want to

2:24:192:24:27

make a contribution. For an active

birth it could be any of us. Let's

2:24:272:24:37

help humanity, not like them with

the problems they are fleeing from.

2:24:372:24:44

-- not played them. -- plague them.

I want to address the use of

2:24:442:24:59

intervention by the Linda diplomacy.

Let's learn the lessons of Iraq,

2:24:592:25:06

Libya and Afghanistan. And not go

down the regime change wars route

2:25:062:25:11

again. International cooperation

confronts the root causes of

2:25:112:25:19

conflict, persecution and

inequality. We will continue to play

2:25:192:25:21

a role in partnership with the EU in

that effort. We live in a globalised

2:25:212:25:28

world. The lives we lead our

dependent on the work of others and

2:25:282:25:32

our trade with those from around the

world. Many of us have friends and

2:25:322:25:38

family from or who live in many

other parts of the world. In

2:25:382:25:43

contrast to the Prime Minister, who

said if you believe you are a

2:25:432:25:46

citizen of the world, you are a

citizen of nowhere. We believe, in

2:25:462:25:51

fact, that we can only fully achieve

what we want as citizens of Britain

2:25:512:25:59

by also recognising we are citizens

of the world.

2:25:592:26:01

APPLAUSE

2:26:012:26:03

I have long opposed embedding a

free-market orthodoxy and the

2:26:072:26:14

Democratic deficit in European

Union. That is why I campaigned to

2:26:142:26:20

remain and reform in the referendum.

Scepticism is healthy especially

2:26:202:26:24

when dealing with politicians. And

there is plenty of them here today.

2:26:242:26:32

Or the received wisdom of the

political and media establishment.

2:26:322:26:36

Plenty of those here as well today.

Being a Eurosceptic in reality

2:26:362:26:46

became synonymous with

anti-European. I am not

2:26:462:26:49

anti-European. I want close

cooperation with the whole of Europe

2:26:492:26:54

after Brexit. Labour is the party of

the new common-sense on the economy,

2:26:542:26:59

public services and Brexit. The only

party which recognises the world has

2:26:592:27:04

changed these last ten years. And,

no, we cannot continue with widening

2:27:042:27:12

elite -- inequality, deregulation of

industry and privatisation of public

2:27:122:27:14

services. We are in a country with

Tory run councils collapsing because

2:27:142:27:21

of cuts, where homeless people are

dying on the streets. In the shadow

2:27:212:27:25

of Parliament. Good jobs are being

lost because we have a Government

2:27:252:27:30

who will not get a grip on the

casino economy. In or out of the

2:27:302:27:36

European Union, we have to deal with

that reality, the reality of market

2:27:362:27:42

failure and austerity. Free-market

has not worked in the banking

2:27:422:27:52

sector, water industry, energy

utilities and has crashed in

2:27:522:27:55

outsourcing. It has failed our

fragmented railways and has led to a

2:27:552:28:01

labour market where abuse is rife.

The European Union is not the root

2:28:012:28:06

of all our problems and leaving it

will not solve all of our problems

2:28:062:28:11

who is likewise, the EU is not the

source of all enlightenment and

2:28:112:28:15

leaving it does not inevitably spell

doom. Some will tell you Brexit is a

2:28:152:28:19

disaster for this country and some

will say it will create a land of

2:28:192:28:23

milk and honey. The truth is more

down to earth, it is in our hands.

2:28:232:28:27

It is what we make of it, together,

the priorities and choices we make

2:28:272:28:33

in negotiations. The Conservatives

are damaging our country and their

2:28:332:28:38

priorities for Brexit risk

increasing and exacerbating the

2:28:382:28:42

damage. I also know what a Labour

Government could do for this

2:28:422:28:48

country. Our priorities for Brexit

negotiations are the right ones - to

2:28:482:28:53

create a country that works, really

does work, for the many, not the

2:28:532:28:58

few. Thank you very much.

APPLAUSE

2:28:582:29:03

Applause for Jeremy Corbyn's speech

in Coventry. Local MP beside him. We

2:29:142:29:24

are expecting a question and answer

session at which we will bring life

2:29:242:29:27

to you.

We will do the questions in

groups. We should have roving

2:29:272:29:39

microphones. Two on the go. The

gentleman with the glasses.

2:29:392:29:46

Fantastic. Channel 4 News. In a

customs agreement, if you went into

2:29:462:29:53

one, please say you have might just

be a right to be heard, not a right

2:29:532:29:57

to a vote for a veto. Would you live

with that?

Say that again.

Is it the

2:29:572:30:07

microphone? If you go into a customs

agreement, you might just have a

2:30:072:30:13

right to be heard, not a right to a

vote of veto on any trade agreements

2:30:132:30:19

the EU might have. Could you live

with that? You point out it has been

2:30:192:30:24

20 months since the referendum. You

say the Tories have been playing

2:30:242:30:28

politics. Why have you suddenly now

come round to the idea of a customs

2:30:282:30:32

agreement? Some people might think

you have got a political game on

2:30:322:30:36

your mind.

2:30:362:30:37

The ladies sat doubtlessly blue

dress on, a little further along.

2:30:432:30:52

Someone pointed out a number of

European countries spend more on

2:30:522:30:56

state aid per head than the UK and

also Scandinavian style economies

2:30:562:31:00

are possible within the single

market because they exist, what

2:31:002:31:05

specific Labour policies do you hope

to implement that you believe

2:31:052:31:09

requires an exemption from those

single market rules?

One more from

2:31:092:31:15

this site, the gentleman with the

lovely blue jumper there.

2:31:152:31:21

Thank you. Nick Watts, BBC

Newsnight. It is often said because

2:31:212:31:26

we do not see you at these set piece

interventions and Brexit very often

2:31:262:31:33

you are keen for Theresa May to own

a Brexit's success or failure but in

2:31:332:31:38

the last week you raised it at Prime

Minister's Questions and here we are

2:31:382:31:43

today. I am wondering if you see an

opportunity to shape Brexit or an

2:31:432:31:49

opportunity to ship out Theresa May?

Well, I love your blue sweater, it's

2:31:492:31:56

very nice.

We have a team, I know it's a bit of

2:31:562:32:04

a difficult concept for the Tory

party to understand, we have a team,

2:32:042:32:10

are Brexit negotiating team, the

Shadow Cabinet, and we have

2:32:102:32:14

travelled far and wide. I have

travelled over many parts of Europe,

2:32:142:32:18

maintained a very close relationship

with colleagues in Europe and

2:32:182:32:23

developed that understanding because

we want an alliance in the future. I

2:32:232:32:29

have attended more meetings of the

party of European Socialists that

2:32:292:32:33

any Labour leader in the past and

our team is part of that. I raised

2:32:332:32:37

these matters with the Prime

Minister at question Time last week,

2:32:372:32:41

and you would have heard all that.

And we will continue making these

2:32:412:32:47

interventions. Listen, it was only

two weeks or so after the referendum

2:32:472:32:53

in 2016 and Burnham, then our Shadow

Home Secretary before becoming the

2:32:532:32:59

mayor of greater Manchester,

proposed an amendment to Parliament

2:32:592:33:04

resolution to Parliament to

guarantee EU citizens rights of

2:33:042:33:08

residency in Britain. We have been

on this since the very beginning, of

2:33:082:33:12

the late with the consequences of

the decision. -- of dealing with the

2:33:122:33:17

consequences. On the points from the

Guardian journalist, the issues are

2:33:172:33:25

of competition rules and are of the

rules on state aid. For example, the

2:33:252:33:33

nationalisation of RBS, in order to

accommodate European rules, was

2:33:332:33:37

accompanied by the selling off of

some of the best part of RBS and the

2:33:372:33:42

public was left with the remainder.

Royal Mail is a natural monopoly,

2:33:422:33:47

mail delivery is a natural monopoly.

I do not agree with or accept the

2:33:472:33:52

idea there has to be competition in

mail delivery, we all have one

2:33:522:33:57

letterbox and it's much more

efficient to have one postal

2:33:572:34:00

delivery person coming down the

street rather than different ones

2:34:002:34:05

from competing companies. The idea

of competition in water supply is a

2:34:052:34:10

little odd when only one water pipe

goes to each house. The idea

2:34:102:34:15

competition rules work for the

benefit of all we do not believe to

2:34:152:34:19

be the case and we set out in our

manifesto is received a huge degree

2:34:192:34:23

of support, was public ownership of

water and a meal and train operating

2:34:232:34:28

companies. The point raised by

Channel 4, I set it out in the

2:34:282:34:35

speech, what we want to achieve and

what we will achieve is our right to

2:34:352:34:40

be able to negotiate and consults at

the same time with the EU on the

2:34:402:34:47

sort of trade agreements we make and

also confront them on the sort of

2:34:472:34:50

trade deal made with the rest of the

world. For example, you trade

2:34:502:34:55

agreements have a human rights

clause in them, very seldom

2:34:552:34:59

enforced, they also have what I

hoped would be much stronger clauses

2:34:592:35:06

on workers' rights and opportunities

in third World countries or

2:35:062:35:10

non-European countries from which

gives an important. I would want to

2:35:102:35:15

see those things stronger and we

would be committed to that. Does

2:35:152:35:18

that mean we have to be passive? No,

come we are a large economy and

2:35:182:35:25

important part of the world trade

system and we would negotiate to

2:35:252:35:30

achieve that and Barry has clearly

set the Stoke in many directives in

2:35:302:35:33

Parliament. -- set this out.

That is a strange question because I

2:35:332:35:45

spent a lot of time travelling

around the country doing campaigning

2:35:452:35:50

meetings and the issues are a Brexit

come up all the time and we thought

2:35:502:35:53

it would be helpful to set out our

reviews here today.

2:35:532:36:01

Any more questions? The lady in a

blue dress.

You mentioned about the

2:36:012:36:14

automotive industry in Coventry,

Jaguar Land Rover last week said

2:36:142:36:17

they would suffer dire consequences

from Brexit and thousands losing

2:36:172:36:22

their jobs. What do you say to that

and would Europe plan reassure them

2:36:222:36:27

of those fears? -- and Woods Europe

plan.

2:36:272:36:32

Jeremy Corbyn, you spoke of the need

to maintain a softer border in

2:36:362:36:42

Northern Ireland and you admitted

staying in the customs union would

2:36:422:36:45

only help that game but the EU

repeatedly said the only way to

2:36:452:36:52

guarantee no higher order would

staying in the single market. Are

2:36:522:36:56

you saying they are wrong with that

or would you countenance the idea of

2:36:562:37:01

staying in the single market?

The

gentleman further back with the

2:37:012:37:06

trendy beard.

That was the new

campaign group formed in a few weeks

2:37:062:37:16

ago, a youth campaign group and

their main purpose was to persuade

2:37:162:37:19

you to back a second referendum on a

membership of the EU. You believe in

2:37:192:37:25

the power of grassroots campaigns,

is there any chance they could ever

2:37:252:37:30

change your mind on this?

On the question of jobs in Coventry,

2:37:302:37:38

yes, Coventry is a manufacturing

centre, research Centre and is part

2:37:382:37:43

of the whole West Midlands

industrial strength and clearly that

2:37:432:37:47

relies very heavily on trade with

Europe as this university relies on

2:37:472:37:53

overseas students, not just from

Europe but all over. I want to

2:37:532:37:57

protect those jobs and to ensure the

universities can carry on recruiting

2:37:572:38:04

large numbers of overseas students

and likewise I also want to make

2:38:042:38:08

sure UK students do not go into debt

in order to get an education. Our

2:38:082:38:14

proposals are we have that effective

trading relationship with Europe and

2:38:142:38:17

I think what we have said all to be

good news for people in Coventry and

2:38:172:38:23

in the West Midlands. On the

question of the border with Northern

2:38:232:38:31

Ireland, we are a very, very clear

at the Good Friday Agreement was an

2:38:312:38:37

enormous step forward in which both

traditions in Northern Ireland and

2:38:372:38:41

across the island of Ireland were

respected and that historic movement

2:38:412:38:45

came because of very brave people

being prepared to negotiate it.

2:38:452:38:50

Nobody wants to lose that and every

meeting I have been to in Brussels

2:38:502:38:54

and anywhere else, the border issue

comes up. That means there has to be

2:38:542:39:01

a customs union that guarantees no

border between the Republic of

2:39:012:39:07

Ireland and Northern Ireland. That

is our priority and we have made

2:39:072:39:10

that very clear time and time again.

On the question of decision on the

2:39:102:39:17

outcome, what we pushed for is a

number of red lines in the House of

2:39:172:39:21

Commons, one of which is the points

clear star has made many times,

2:39:212:39:27

there should be a meaningful vote in

Parliament on the final deal, as

2:39:272:39:33

there will be a decision made by the

27 member states in the EU plus the

2:39:332:39:39

European Parliament. There is a lot

of discussion and negotiation to go

2:39:392:39:43

on and we are not doing negotiations

but we are setting out what we would

2:39:432:39:47

do if we were in office. We are not

proposing a second referendum what

2:39:472:39:52

we are proposing is the final

meaningful vote in parliament.

Let

2:39:522:39:56

mix it up, haven't we got any

non-journalists who want to ask a

2:39:562:40:05

question? The lady with the blonde

hair.

I want to say, please, will

2:40:052:40:15

you hurry up and be our Prime

Minister.

2:40:152:40:18

APPLAUSE

.

2:40:182:40:24

We have time for another two

questions. The gentleman there.

2:40:272:40:33

Following on from that, with this

new shift in policy, is it your

2:40:332:40:47

hope, your intention, that Labour

MPs will now be able to join with

2:40:472:40:53

Conservative rebels, defeated the

Government and parliament and maybe

2:40:532:40:56

precipitates an election?

One more

before we go home. I will go for

2:40:562:41:04

that side, gentleman with the

glasses and the beard.

2:41:042:41:10

Thank you. In Coventry we have got

an issue, the police shortage on the

2:41:102:41:17

streets. My war which I represent --

my ward. It is up and down the

2:41:172:41:29

country, police are starved of

resources. There's the possibility

2:41:292:41:32

labour can look into it and make

sure there is adequate policing on

2:41:322:41:37

the streets and no vigilantes on

streets?

2:41:372:41:41

Thanks for the last question, I will

answer the other two. We pledge to

2:41:412:41:47

increase police numbers by 10000 and

10,000 more officers there. I was

2:41:472:41:53

with David Jamieson on Saturday, the

police and crime commission in

2:41:532:41:57

Stourbridge, and we were talking to

police officers and community. They

2:41:572:42:01

are losing their PCS alls, as are

other parts of the country. So that

2:42:012:42:09

sense of cooperation between police

and citizens is lost and police only

2:42:092:42:13

come in when there is a major crime

or dire emergency and that is not a

2:42:132:42:18

good way forward. If we are to deal

with anti-social behaviour,

2:42:182:42:22

low-level abuse, high level abuse,

knife crime and serious issues like

2:42:222:42:27

that, you do not achieve it by

reducing police numbers, you cannot

2:42:272:42:31

solve it all at a computer. It is

only achieved by PSCOs who

2:42:312:42:39

understand the community and are on

the streets. I was in Great Yarmouth

2:42:392:42:43

last week and spent some time

talking to two local police officers

2:42:432:42:47

who had been in the same area for

ten years, they knew everybody in

2:42:472:42:52

the community, they knew all the

strains and stresses and were able

2:42:522:42:55

to relate to that community and the

community related to them. The

2:42:552:43:00

points they made an effort that

makes, if you cut police numbers,

2:43:002:43:04

close youth clubs, this method use

workers, -- this method -- dismiss

2:43:042:43:14

youth workers, is it surprising you

end up with more and more

2:43:142:43:17

anti-social behaviour and more and

more levels of crime: us -- we are

2:43:172:43:24

saying it is a false economy to cut

police numbers and we would invest

2:43:242:43:30

in the community infrastructure

providers. That is why we're the

2:43:302:43:33

local election and why austerity is

so wrong.

2:43:332:43:37

APPLAUSE

Thank you for your question, Andy

2:43:372:43:43

we're putting our views to

Parliament, we are not in a

2:43:432:43:47

majority, we have our results and we

are determined to win the next

2:43:472:43:54

election whenever it comes.

We are fighting to protect jobs,

2:43:542:43:58

protect living standards, consumer

rights, environmental standards and

2:43:582:44:03

above all, the rights people have at

work. I try to set out what I

2:44:032:44:09

believe is the more global view all

our place in the world than that set

2:44:092:44:14

out by the Tories. There is no

future in turning this country into

2:44:142:44:19

a xenophobic offshore island that

sees everybody as a rival. No, we

2:44:192:44:26

are open, multicultural and

multilingual society, let's achieve

2:44:262:44:30

that and also say to people in every

community that a Labour Government

2:44:302:44:36

will not let your industries

disappear and be replaced by nothing

2:44:362:44:41

other than short-term, insecure,

zero-hours contract type work. We

2:44:412:44:47

are serious, very serious about

investing in every community in the

2:44:472:44:51

country. Surely the political class

should learn a lesson from the

2:44:512:44:57

referendum result, that sense of

anger at left behind communities. We

2:44:572:45:02

will not walk by on the other side

and let towns and cities dive for

2:45:022:45:07

the lack of investment, it is our

duty to achieve something very

2:45:072:45:12

different and, yes, we are

campaigning very hard all over the

2:45:122:45:15

country to when local elections and

then a general election when it

2:45:152:45:19

comes and so you will get a Labour

Government that way. Is that OK?

2:45:192:45:23

APPLAUSE

.

2:45:232:45:31

Thank you everybody. Safe journey to

wherever you are heading. Contact

2:45:322:45:41

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