26/02/2018 Victoria Derbyshire

Hello, it's Monday,

it's nine o'clock,

I'm Victoria Derbyshire,

welcome to the programme.

This morning, in a TV first,

we're broadcasting live

from a primary school for children

who've been excluded from or can't

be taught in mainstream education.

It's called a pupil referral unit.

No, no!

Well, I did really bad stuff

like pushing on people

and punching some people

and sometimes kicked them.

I don't...!

That's Kayden.

This morning, we'll see how

children like him are given

the help to turn their behaviour

and their lives around.

And we'll meet

some of their parents.

It's hard to accept that your child

is not actually that lovable.

Erm, so I used to say

like I love him,

but how the hell is anyone else

going to love him or even like him?

Almost every child here successfully

returns to mainstream school -

so how do the teachers do it?

The stigma is that it's a place

for naughty children.

They're not naughty children.

They're wonderful, bright,

intelligent, just amazing children,

but they've made poor choices,

and that's a big, big difference.

This morning, we've been given

incredible access to this school,

some of its pupils,

some of their mums and dads

and to the teachers here.

And the reason we're here

is because we can exclusively reveal

that there's been a big rise

in the numbers of primary school

children being educated

in pupil referral units.

Morning, welcome to Hawkswood

Primary Pupil Referral Unit

in Waltham Forest,

North East London.

We're broadcasting to you live

here all morning.

This is where children come

when they're kicked out

of mainstream school or in danger

of being kicked out.

It is a pretty small screw, this is

the main corridor, the main

thoroughfare, 40 pupils, and it is

at capacity, and this is a place

where children come when they have

been kicked out of mainstream

education, or where they are in

danger of being kicked out of

mainstream education. Children as

young as four come to this pupil

referral unit, or PRU, as it is

known. Often they children have

emotional problems, a history of

aggressive or violent behaviour

towards siblings, parents, teachers

and other pupils in their class. We

have been given exclusive access to

this cool to meet the pupils and the

staff whose job it is to turn around

of the children here. -- the school.

As you'd expect, we very much

want your input too.

Does your child go to

a pupil referral unit?

Did you go to one?

Tell us your own experience.

We will be concentrating on PRUs

throughout the week, and tomorrow we

will be taking your calls on this

subject. So do get in touch in the

usual way. First, the news with

John. --

Joanna.

Jeremy Corbyn will set

out Labour's position

on Brexit this morning

after months of demands

that the party clarify its plans.

In a speech later, he'll say the UK

should negotiate a bespoke agreement

with the EU on a customs union,

and a strong new relationship

with the single market.

The Conservatives say his proposals

would breach promises made

at the last general election.

You can watch Mr Corbyn's

speech on this programme.

It's expected at about 10:30.

Four people have been killed

in an explosion in Leicester,

which destroyed a building

in the middle of a parade of shops.

Another four people

remain in hospital,

one with serious injuries.

Emergency teams are still searching

through the wreckage

in the Hinckley Road area

of the city.

Andy Moore reports.

The immediate aftermath of an

explosion that destroyed a shop and

a two storey shop above it. Police

say there were four confirmed

fatalities and four people remain in

hospital, one with serious injuries.

The search and rescue operation

continued overnight for any more

victims. Police say there may be

other people and accounted for. --

unaccounted four.

We still think

this is a rescue operation, we using

shoring techniques to try to rescue

anyone who may be alive in the

building.

Local people spoke about

the force of the explosion and the

fierceness of the fire that

followed.

We heard a low explosion,

and it felt like a tremendous shock

through the house, like it was going

to bring the ceiling down.

I live

here, I rang the police, 999, and

they said what services, I said

everything you can send.

Police say

they don't know what caused the

blast, a joint investigation with

the Fire Service will get under way

once the site has been made safe.

There's been a big rise

in the number of primary school

children being educated in pupil

referral units, according

to a freedom of information

request by this programme.

Children are referred to the units

when they've been excluded,

or are close to being excluded,

from their mainstream school.

Over the last four years,

a third more children in England

are being schooled in the units.

New legislation to cap

poor-value energy tariffs

and save consumers money

is being introduced

to Parliament later.

The Government says

it will protect 11 million

people from higher bills.

The industry has warned the cap

could stifle competition.

Nigeria says it's deploying

more airplanes to assist

in the search for the girls

missing after an Islamist attack

on their school last week.

More than 100 girls are feared

to have been abducted

by Boko Haram militants in Yobe

state in the northeast.

The authorities said police

and security officials had been sent

to schools there to deter

new attacks by the insurgents.

Parts of the UK will feel colder

than the Arctic Circle

this week with widespread snow

and bitterly cold winds.

Rail companies in East Anglia

say their services

will end early tonight.

C2C and Greater Anglia

have also cancelled services

on Tuesday and Wednesday.

They urge customers

to check before travelling.

That's a summary of

the latest BBC News.

Now the sport with Hugh.

Good morning.

Manchester City have won their first

trophy under manager Pep Guardiola

with a comfortable 3-0 win

over Arsenal.

City captain Vincent Kompany

was on the scoresheet

as the Premier League's runaway

leaders secured the first domestic

title of the season.

Afterwards, Guardiola thanked

the club for its support

during his trophy-less first season.

A good win too for the red

half of Manchester.

United came from behind to beat

Chelsea 2-1 at Old Trafford

in the Premier League.

After Willian's opener, United

striker Romelu Lukaku

levelled things before crossing

in for substitute Jesse Lingard

to nod in the winner

which takes United back into

second place in the table.

Chelsea, though, slip out

of the Champions League spots.

Six Nations Rugby say they'll

investigate an alleged melee before

Scotland's Calcutta Cup victory

over England on Saturday.

As the teams returned

to the dressing rooms

after warming up, England back

Owen Farrell and Scotland forward

Ryan Wilson appeared to clash.

The Six Nations said it would be

writing to the unions to request

clarification on what happened

in the tunnel.

That is all the sport for now,

Victoria, back to you. Good morning,

hello, welcome to our programme.

This morning, we're broadcasting

live from a pupil referral unit

or PRU in Waltham Forest

in North East London.

It is the first time a live TV

programme has come from a school

like this, a primary school in

north-east London, 40 pupils between

the ages of four and 11. This is

where they come when they are kicked

out of mainstream education or are

in danger of being kicked out. 351

PRUs across England. Aspiration is

really important in this particular

school, have a look at this, some

artwork on one of the wars, Martin

Luther King had a dream, and the

children are photographed holding up

their own posters - I have a dream,

if I could make a difference and

become PM. I have a dream I could

save millions of dogs, cats and

animals in the world. The reason we

are here today is because we have

discovered there has been a big rise

in the numbers of primary

schoolchildren being educated in

places like this, in PRUs. The

question is, why? That is what we

are going to explore this morning.

In a few minutes, we are going to

show you an incredible film which

shows you the kind of techniques

that they used here. After you, if

you want to go through. The kind of

techniques that they use here,

including restraint, that help turn

a child's life around. They have

given us such transparent, open

access, it is a real insight. First,

I have been told it is OK to go into

one of the lessons,

one of the lessons, so this is Ms

Mwaniki's class one. Hello! Good

morning, Ms Mwaniki, how are you?

Good morning, everybody!

Morning!

Thank you for having us in your

lesson, don't let me interrupt, go

on, carry on.

So we know what

happened to him, what did he do?

happened to him, what did he do? And

then what else? What did we learn in

that story? Yes?

He was on the hard

floor.

Fantastic, we are going to

think about how we can fracture

that, because he did not fall. Yes?

Shall we change it? Jayden T?

Maybe

you could change it and say Ampadu

do the felt off the wall...

Stop

there, remember, what do we have to

do...

I am going to pause you, if

that is all right, just so we can

have a chat. This is obviously a

literacy lesson, can we take a seat

here?

here? Hi, how are you, I am

Victoria, we have met before. Hi,

Andrew, Jacob, how are you? Thank

you very much for allowing me to

interrupt your literacy lesson, take

a seat, of course. What is it like

here?

What it is like here is that

you are very caring people around

you who really help you, so Ms

Mwaniki, because she helps most of

the children here, and they kind of

get that you are in a safe

environment, and it helps mentally

and physically, basically, because

it helps you integrate into

mainstream school, because when, say

me, when I was of age to be in a

mainstream school, I used to keep

coming out and getting excluded, but

this cool gives you extra help, it

is helping me understand how it is

better to go into Andrea Tiberi. --

this school.

Andrew, what is it like

for you?

for you?

It is nice and safe, and it

has helped me a lot, when I first

came here, I didn't like it, but now

I do, and especially Ms Mwaniki, she

has helped me through everything,

and it is a very disciplined school.

And that is good, is it?

Yes.

Jacob,

how long have you been here?

About a

year, and when I first started here,

I was having trouble behaving and

making loads of wrong choices...

That is what you use to be like?

Yeah, but now if there is somebody,

like, annoying me or something, I

will just ignore them. And I would

just stay away from them if I know

they are going to create trouble or

something, and if one of my friends

is trying to tell me to do something

wrong or something like that, I

would ignore him and say no, I know

that is the wrong thing and I

shouldn't do that.

And that is the

kind of thing you can teach them?

And this is your last week, isn't

it?

Yes.

You are going back to your

old primary school?

Yes, Monday is

my last day.

How does it feel?

I am

a little anxious, but I have come

very far, and I have worked hard to

reach this point.

We are going to

talk more in a moment, thank you

very much for having me in your

classroom, I really want to urge you

to watch this film.

Do you know why you came here?

Because I was being bad

at my other one...school.

I think there is a stigma attached

to pupil referral units.

He pinched me!

Nicholas.

The stigma is that it's a place

for naughty children.

Good boy, Nicholas.

SCREAMING.

I mean, I don't like that

terminology at all.

No, no!

I used to swear a lot.

I used to be mean to

the teachers a lot.

Did you have a good weekend?

No.

You do get really attached to them.

The time you spend with them,

the things you go through

together, it's just...

There's nothing like it, really.

They're not naughty children.

They're wonderful, bright,

intelligent, just amazing children

but they've made poor choices,

and that's a big, big difference.

It's a big day for Kayden.

His first with a new class

at Hawkswood pupil referral unit.

He's only six, yet he is in danger

of being permanently excluded

from his mainstream school.

Well, I did really bad stuff.

Like pushing other people

and punching some people

and sometimes kicked them.

Kayden, you are very good at that.

He's recently, from

what we understand, been

on a reduced timetable,

so he wouldn't be in class all day.

Do you know why you did that?

I don't know.

I think they got me

in a really bad mood.

People do that sometimes.

So our aim would be to get him back

into a mainstream classroom

where he can be there all day

and accessing the curriculum

like all of his peers.

He's in a class with four other

children in the same boat.

Today's the first time

they've all been together.

OK.

Hey!

That's it.

When they all first came in,

I think they were a bit bubbly

and a bit jumpy because they just

needed to feel secure in this

space and they needed

to feel secure with me.

And the new environment is testing

one of Kayden's triggers.

Noise.

She called me a baby!

No, I didn't!

Yes, you did.

Liar, liar, pants on fire.

Nicholas.

You don't like noise, do you?

No.

Your hands to yourself,

and you were hurting people.

That's why I have got

the ear defenders, to block

off every single noise.

You need to speak nicely to your

friends and if you can't do that...

Scared by the noise,

Kayden has started to act up.

Kayden, we're going to move

you out of this area.

Look what you've done.

What do you want me to do?

Look what, you made me...

Show me.

No, no!

Are you done?

Wait there.

Come here.

Leave me alone!

I just want to be left alone!

Kayden, I can take

you to the blue chair.

I want to just be left alone.

Why can't I be left alone?

You want to be left alone?

It's not safe for me

to leave you here.

I want to.

I can leave you alone, but not here.

Yes.

Here is not the place.

I can leave you alone inside

the classroom on the blue chair.

I don't...!

You know you're not

allowed to hit me.

I don't even care!

OK, well, I do care.

I don't care!

It's not nice for me.

Kayden, why are we

here on the floor?

Are you able to use your words

and tell me what's happened?

OK, that's fine but this isn't

a very safe place to be,

in the middle of the corridor.

I don't care!

Oh, you don't need to care.

You just need to know that we do.

He almost ran from

the noise, and it...

I would say it distressed

him and then that led

on to undesired behaviour.

I know that he wanted a little bit

of peace and quiet to calm down.

Yeah.

Kayden, can we go to a safer

place than the corridor

where it's a bit quieter?

He was kind of stuck in the moment.

And so you try a few

different tactics.

Can I show you something

before we go?

I'm going to show you something.

In here.

And I said, "Oh, have

you seen our new library?

Do you want to go in?"

And that was it.

He came right out of it.

And that's my favourite book.

Oh, no way!

That's your favourite book?

Are you serious?

Oh, my goodness, right.

That's Lego Batman.

Do you know what we're going to do?

That was distraction.

In that moment, that's

what brought him down again.

Kayden's one of 40

pupils at Hawkswood.

Some are as young as five.

They all have different needs

but they are all here

because they've struggled

to manage their behaviour.

A typical intervention

is approximately 15-20 weeks.

It's really important that we build

attachments with the children

from a very early stage and we do

that via utter consistency.

For the juniors, the first lesson's

PE, every single morning.

She said scientifically,

when you do PE, it helps your

brain work properly.

And I don't know if that's

true or not but if it's

scientifically, then count me in.

At my old school, yeah,

I was spitting, I was punching,

I was hitting and I was

throwing chairs about.

It was really bad.

The worst time was when six

or seven people had to hold

me down on the floor.

I spent eight months

without being in school.

It wasn't good.

It wasn't good because it

made my brain hurt.

I didn't even learn anything.

My sister had to teach me.

Do you know, nursery,

nursery, nursery, four add

four, two add two, yeah?

She had to learn me that.

Why do you think Jo

was kicked out of school?

Because she was naughty?

Do we say naughty?

No, bad.

What do we say?

Do we say bad?

No.

What do we say?

She made what?

The wrong choices.

She made the wrong choices.

We teach the children

that they have a choice

when they feel frustrated,

they have a choice when they feel

anxious or angry and we teach them

that they are in control

of those choices.

Well done for doing the right thing.

She broke it.

Jamal, hands in your lap.

But Miss!

If you interrupt me again, Kayden,

you're going to go on the time out

chair to think about it.

And I don't want that.

But you need to make a good

choice and we're not

interrupting when I'm speaking,

do you understand?

Good boy.

We've got two minutes

till lunchtime.

Strict rules are always enforced.

Nicholas is refusing

to wash his hands before lunch.

Nicholas, you need to hurry up

and wash your hands.

Don't do that, Nicholas.

You'll be on the time out chair.

Is he going to the time out chair

or is he going to go

and wash his hands?

He's going to come

to the time out chair.

OK, that's fair enough.

Come on, Nicholas.

No, no!

You have to, Nicholas.

At times, occasionally, that can

lead to a physical intervention,

to keep the child safe.

Well done.

You know the meaning of restraining?

Basically, when they hold you down

because you're being unsafe.

I understand it here

because they explain it

in a more specific way.

No, I have to to make

sure everybody's safe.

We need to teach them from very

early on that we can keep them safe,

we can keep them emotionally

and physically safe and that

undesired behaviours won't be

tolerated but positive behaviours

will be rewarded with

attention or incentives

or whatever that may be.

Excellent.

Well done, Nicholas.

That's fine...

That's OK, but you have

to stay on the chair.

It's basically, like,

if you're being unsafe, like,

say if I came into this room

and I threw the table,

then one of the staff,

Miss Gentles would call assistance

and they will start holding me down

because I'm being unsafe.

No, no, no!

No, no, no!

Nicholas, we're going to hold

you again because we need

to make sure you are safe.

No, no!

And you're staying on the chair.

No, no!

SCREAMING.

Didn't we, Nicholas?

Do you remember?

Yes.

Stop it.

I've seen it before,

while I'm in class, some

children have been held.

I don't know the reason why.

It's none of my business.

I've just kept staying out of it.

You know, we need to wash our hands

before we have our lunch.

If we had said, oh, never mind,

hey-ho, after five minutes,

then the next day, when it came

to wash his hands, he could have

potentially showed us that same

behaviour because he would have

learned that that behaviour got him

out of washing his hands.

Some of the children,

potentially their families

are struggling with housing,

and are in quite cramped

living conditions.

Some children have come

from a background of some form

of abuse but not all children have

and I think that's really

important to stress.

That's a slight misconception,

that all the children who attend

the pupil referral unit have come

from an abused home

and that is incorrect.

The majority of parents are working,

trying really hard to provide

for their children but somewhere

along the line, something's

gone slightly wrong.

It's home time now and we've

collected these items out

of two of the new pupils' pockets.

But this isn't completely uncommon

and we find that children who have

got attachment issues

and they are trying to form

new attachments with the staff here,

they need to, or feel

that they need to take something

from here and take it home with them

so they feel connected to here,

a place where they felt safe

and contained today,

and take it back home,

to another place where they feel

safe and contained.

But there's another issue for staff.

It's spitting.

For the staff who weren't

here yesterday, we discussed...

The child in Katie's

room and spitting.

Something amazing happened.

Sit back on your bottom, please.

I don't like it.

Mrs Tubridy, I'm so sorry

to stop your lovely story.

Would you ask Miss Sinclair to come

and support me, please?

Anaya is five years old.

She's currently in reception but has

been permanently excluded

from her mainstream setting.

Where did the parcels go, Anaya?

It's quite unusual for a reception

child to be permanently

excluded but it does happen.

This behaviour is not acceptable.

No!

And we won't be

having that tomorrow.

No!

Anaya, Anaya.

Do the right thing.

Oh, dear.

That's a shame, isn't it,

because you started off

so well this morning.

She had the best morning.

We think that she's probably

spitting because it's a habit.

She knows that adults

will repel from that

so as hard as that is for us,

we need to make sure that we don't

pull away or whatever it may be

when she's doing that.

You had then started to spit

in my face and on my clothes

and on my arms and that's

not appropriate behaviour.

No, no.

If we need to hold her securely,

we're holding her securely,

putting your hand, one hand at each

side on the child's face.

If you continue to make that choice,

you will stay here.

But we really want you to

come back into class.

Katie and I did that

and she was spitting

still on Katie's hand.

But we talked about the fact that

Katie needed to not, you know,

put her head back or whatever

it was because what did she say

to you when you put your head back?

I know you're moving your head away

but I can still get you.

Yeah, OK.

Until this afternoon,

this little blip, she has been such

a superstar so it would

be really nice to...

I'm taking my hand away

because I know you can

control your spitting.

You have an apology to make to me

and the children for spitting

in our classroom and when you've

done that, you've got

ten minutes of payback.

When you've done that payback,

you can join everybody else

for after-school club.

We cannot wait to play with you.

Careful.

Careful.

Kayden lives with his

nan and grandad.

Sometimes we do family game night.

What do you play

on family game night?

We play Jenga and

Pie-face, the new one.

You play better than grandad.

Grandad?

Yes.

Next, after this, when I win...

When Kayden came into our life,

then I realised there were more

issues going on than just

a typical little boy.

The darkest point I think for us

was knowing that he was having

really bad meltdowns in school

and the school was

unable to manage that.

He was climbing up on furniture.

He was lifting up tables, throwing

objects around the classrooms.

It was just really disturbing

for other children to see.

We never had family game night.

So he's been in education

for two and a half years

and still can't read and write.

He would never have done that.

He can just about write his

name and maybe single

words but that's only

since he's been at Hawkswood.

There's been a drastic

change in Kayden.

He can sit down now for at least

five or ten minutes

and actually play a game.

He can do a little bit

of reading with us now.

He can sit, you know,

and just eat his dinner.

Wow, it sounds like you had

lots of fun at school today.

We don't take Kayden out very often.

We struggle with the fact that we're

worried that Kayden's going to run

off or he has meltdowns and then

we've got to try and explain

that to parents or people that

are staring and looking and I think

that's the hardest thing

is to try and explain

to someone that actually,

I'm really sorry that my child has

done this to your child or done

this to you or whatever,

but you can't label a child.

Kayden is not diagnosed

so until that diagnosis has been

made, I will not put a label on him.

OK, lovely, lovely.

Well, we'll see you on Wednesday.

OK, bye.

OK.

Who's that?

That's the father of a potential

new referral.

Dad did not want initially, did not

want his son to come here.

They can be very, very resistant,

and to be fair, it's

completely understandable

because when your child starts

school, you don't expect

for them to be referred

to a pupil referral unit.

Can go up as high as the 35 degrees?

They think they are going to walk

in and there's children fighting

in the corridors and all sorts,

and then they walk in,

it's really calm, they go

into the classrooms,

the children are working.

So, Baz, what's your place?

Japan?

Once we found this school,

it was just a big impact.

Now I'm in school, now I'm learning

and now, if I keep behaving,

I can reintegrate back

into a mainstream school.

Is that what you want?

Yeah, and it will happen.

Kayden's been here six weeks.

In a couple of months,

if all goes well, he'll

be back at his mainstream

school full-time.

You may choose something

from the prize pot.

I'm so proud of your behaviour

for the last few weeks.

All my favourite stuff is in here.

All your favourite stuff in there!

Remember when we were on the carpet

this morning, when you were doing

beautiful sitting and you said to me

that you love coming to this school?

Because I do.

So tell me some of the things

that you do

when you're making good choices.

Like, I'm tidying

up my room at home.

You do but thinking about what good

things do you do at school?

Oh, OK.

I do good writing.

Very good writing.

Where did we go on a

special trip last week?

The mime!

The pantomime, good boy!

Now, that's something

that could have been

quite tricky, couldn't it?

Yeah, do you know what

made me laugh in there?

What?

That wicked witch.

Yeah, that made me laugh.

She turned into a baby!

She did turn into

a baby, didn't she?

Kayden, normally, when you go

to places like theatres and cinemas,

what do you need to use to help you?

The ear defenders.

Your ear defenders.

Did you need them at the theatre?

No.

No way!

Because it wasn't noisy.

Well, actually, it was really noisy.

Yeah, but I didn't even need it.

You didn't.

Because I just ignored it.

You did ignore it.

Give me a high ten.

I love that word.

Very, very proud of you,

and I'm really proud of the teachers

that he's got there.

Knowing the difficulties

we are still going through

and they are still supporting us.

There's a light

at the end of tunnel.

Good girl.

Anaya had her best day.

She made good choices.

She managed her own behaviour

but primarily, she was just so proud

of herself and I think that rubs

off on everybody.

It was just a happy buzz all day.

A really, really good day.

This is for Kayden.

APPLAUSE

We boost children's confidence.

We show children what they can do.

You've got your certificate today

for that amazing writing last week.

Yes.

So if we do more amazing

writing, more certificates.

We teach them that they can have

aspirations and they can think big.

I just want to be a vet

when I'm older.

I love animals, and I love

taking care of them

and making sure they are healthy.

Today actually, funnily

enough, we have been

learning about mammals,

amphibians, reptiles, insects.

There's this special

word for a jellyfish.

I don't know what it is.

So I picked a leopard

because they are just,

they are just my spirit animal,

really.

What do you want to be?

Police.

You want to be a policeman?

Yeah.

Kayden.

Nice hands, because you're

a nice police officer.

Because they catch people

that are doing really bad stuff.

And we sometimes come to arrest you.

We need to work as a team

with the firefighters

because we're friends.

Well, as you saw, that film gave

a real insight into daily life

at this school and into how

they manage to turn round pupils.

Deputy head and classroom

teacher Leah Mwaniki,

and some of her pupils - Barrington,

age ten, Andrew, age nine,

and Jacob, who is also

nine, are still here.

Turn!

Sorry, ten!

Almost turned.

And

I am 11.

Zero points for!

Natalie on Facebook -

My daughter spent sometime

in a PRU last year

after a permanent exclusion.

She is now in a specialist

behavioural school

and she's slowly improving.

She has complex behavioural issues,

awaiting a complete

diagnosis and support.

The children are not

always naughty children.

Anonymous text - there's your answer

straightaway, small class sizes!

Trying to teach a class of 30

plus children at the same

time is impossible.

It's been like this for decades now.

I think what is really clear from

that film, you are absolutely

consistent with the rules, and I

could hear, and I felt that myself,

parents are bad than the country

going, that is the answer, you have

to keep doing the same thing. -- up

and down the country.

What ever you

are doing, you have to follow it

through, and we give them a routine,

and we give them the choice of

following instructions or face the

consequence, and we have to repeat

that over and over again until a

child understands this is the

expectation. Whatever I am expecting

the child to do, however long it

takes, that child will eventually do

it, so we are very consistent with

our boundaries, very tight and firm

boundaries, as well as the

principles of nurture, because we

fully understand behaviour is

communication, so whenever a child

behaves in a particular way, they

are trying to communicate something.

So we follow the natural principles,

and we believe every child, I am so

passionate about every child, every

child must have an opportunity to

progress. If they have been kicked

out of school, where the teachers

could not control them, whether they

are not making progress, but most of

the children, 98%, after

intervention, they go away, having

made accelerated progress in their

learning and their behaviour as

well.

Jacob, how do you think the

teachers here help you make the

right choices, good choices?

Well,

sometimes I am having trouble or

something. They would help me...

Sometimes, when I first came here,

they would sometimes take me out of

class and help me calm down. But now

I don't really need that any more,

but I used to have to be taken out

of class sometimes.

What about you,

Barrington? How do teachers help you

make the right choices? How long

have you been here, by the way

30

months.

13 months? Well, all the

time I have been here, by the time I

first came here, I was in Mr

Milligan's class, my first class

with Andrew, and a few other kids,

and I was the sort of kid that

sometimes, throughout the weeks, I

kind of slipped into bad behaviour,

kept on slipping. But at first I

really like the school, because I

felt I was safe in this kind of

place, and it was much better than

my other schools, my past schools.

And I made a lot

And I made a lot of friends, and the

first friend was Andrew, he is my

best friend.

He is smiling away at

that! You two are best friends?

I

was in the first class with him.

And

when do you hope to go back to

either your old school or another

mainstream primary?

Well, now I am

in year six, my family, I am going

to go to a secondary school, and

that school is going to be a

mainstream school.

Is that important

to you?

Very important to me.

Why?

I

care a lot about my future, work, I

care more about my education,

because education, someone said to

me, education is the key and you

need to follow it, because if you

don't, and you are missing out on

your learning, it is really bad. So

say before I was really missing out

on my learning, I kept being pulled

out of the class, and I was missing

a whole bunch of learning. And all

the other kids were learning, but I

wasn't, I was outside the classroom.

You said in the film that your

sister was having to teach you. Can

I ask you, Ms Mwaniki, if it is all

boys here?

It is not all boys, but

the majority of boys. We do have

girls, and that the minute I think

we have...

Three.

No, two.

Three

girls at the minute, but the

majority of them is boys. But as the

year progresses, especially around

July, we will be having more kids.

But at the minute, the boys are the

majority.

Listen, thank you very

much for having me in your class and

interrupting your literacy lesson,

very good to see you again,

Barrington, Andrew, Jacob, and good

luck when you go to your old primary

on Monday.

What you say to Victoria?

Thank you, Victoria!

And the people

at home?

Thanks for watching!

Thank

you so much, bye.

Schools like Hawkswood are becoming

increasingly important,

because we can reveal for the first

time this morning that the number

of younger children attending units

like this one across England

has significantly increased

over recent years.

Many - including this one -

are operating at full capacity

as demand increases.

We've also found similar

schools in other areas

even have a waiting list,

because there aren't enough places

for excluded students to go.

We're about to meet the school

head teacher, Marie Gentles.

The success of this school is,

in no small part, down to her

and the methods she's introduced.

Hi! Hoops, hang on, I need a fob,

don't I? How are you? Thanks so much

for having us here, take a seat, I

am telling you to take a seat in

your own office! I am getting above

myself! How are you?

I am very well,

thank you.

Was it a big decision to

let us in?

Yes, a very big decision,

because what we do is so precious to

us and to the area, what we do here,

and we have worked long and hard

with the schools here to build up

our reputations, and it is very

important that the right message is

sent across, which is these children

are amazing, we just need to

understand what behaviour is and

what it means.

I have got a text

from a chap called Simon, who says,

quote, they are not naughty

children, they have just made bad

choices, he says, are you serious?!

OK! LK, interesting. Children are

children. They are so young, so

mouldable, we have got to give them

a chance, this is our future

generation, so we cannot write

children off at primary school-age,

I do not think that is right or

fair. We not saying their

behavioural choices are OK, but we

are saying they need help and

additional support, and that is what

we do for them. And once they have

affected change, they need to have

the chance to be able to be part of

society, the same way every other

child has that chance.

Is there, in

your view, always an explanation for

poor behaviour?

Yes, there is. So

there are many reasons. We say there

is always a trigger, behaviour is

communication, so there is always a

reason why. The reasons may not be

seen as desirable to people, but

there is always a reason.

Like what?

It could be a learning need, it

could be that they are on a spectrum

and not yet diagnosed, it could be a

parental issue, something that has

affected their home life. There are

some in the different issues, but we

need to drill down to what is going

on for this child, for these

children, and try to help and

support them.

And not just them,

their parents.

Absolutely,

absolutely.

You must come across

some sad stories.

We do, many sad

stories, but actually that just

motivates us to work harder. We

cannot write these children off, we

cannot give up on them. We are

supposed to be a community, not just

a school, but as a borough, as a

country, you know, we have got to

come together and support each

other.

How many children in care are

in your school?

At the moment, not

many. We have got one coming up at

the moment currently.

And that is

out of 40? And how many children

live with just one parent?

Probably about half the pupils.

Is

that relevant?

Yes and no. Some

people assume that it is and it may

not be. You could be the most

fantastic single parent or you can

be a fantastic single parent who

need additional support. Either way,

it is neither here nor there.

How do

you react to the figures that show

that there is a rise of a third of

primary school age children now

being educated in pupil referral

units across England over the last

four years?

I am not surprised.

There is so much pressure on schools

at the moment. Financial restraints.

So much pressure on schools.

Actually I can talk for the schools

and Waltham Forest, and the primary

schools we work with, the majority

of them are doing an amazing job. If

they have a pupil or pupils who they

have tried many techniques with, but

they are not able to manage their

behaviour, that is when they call

upon us, and that is when we step in

and support them with this

intervention.

Do you think

politicians should worry about this

right?

Yes, in the sense that we

need to send more support to

schools. What else can we do to make

sure that more educational

professionals have the skills to be

able to support these children? What

else can we do to support not just

the mainstream schools, but schools

like ourselves, to make sure that

just as it is happening and Waltham

Forest, we have this rolling

programme so that people come into

intervention and then successfully

integrate back into mainstream

schools?

Your success rate is 96%.

Not all PRUs are like that. The

picture across England is

inconsistent from our

investigations, anyway. Why are some

think Laurel not successful at

helping children reintegrate?

I

think there are number of issues.

Each borough has a number of issues.

In Waltham

In Waltham I can say confidently

that we have an amazing system. An

amazing referral panel. A great

understanding of what we do in

Waltham Forest with this pupil

referral unit and so everybody buys

into it so it is used as it should

be used. I think that could

potentially be the difference.

Let

me read the messages for you. This

tweet from Scott. I am watching the

work of teachers and staff at the

pupil referral unit. It is an

eye-opener. What is the definition

of a hero these days? I would say

these teachers fit the brief,

especially in this tricky

environment.

environment. Larry says the PRU

staff are angels. And Carrie says

well done to the pupils and teachers

in your referral unit on the

programme today. The teachers have

shown how much hard work it is that

how rewarding the job is as well. It

shows that if the bin, consistency

and being calm during different

difficult situations and what it can

create. I take my hats off the

teachers and well done to everybody

involved.

Wow.

You used to work in a

mainstream school. What made baited

you to work here?

When I was in a

mainstream school, a select number

of children would be sent to my

class, many moons ago, and I always

used to wonder why. When they came

to my class they behaved

differently, better. I started to

realise that maybe there was

something within me. Maybe I had

some natural skills that needed to

be honed a little bit to be able to

work with children who just need a

little bit more. I am very

passionate about children anyway. I

loved the previous schools I worked

in but I wanted to do something that

will challenge me a little bit more.

Even though it is a challenge, I

know that at the end of the day we

have made a significant difference

to day.

I want to ask you about the

cost. To be educated in a mainstream

state school costs from £4000 to

£5,000 per pupil per year and there

are 30 in a class, as we know. In a

PRU there are seven or eight in the

class and the cost varies. In

Kirklees in Yorkshire they have told

us it costs £48,000 per pupil per

year. That is nine times the cost of

a mainstream state school per pupil.

Like as it is £12,000 per year and

in Nottinghamshire it is just under

£7,000. -- in Lancashire it is

£12,000. Some people might ask why

children who make poor decisions

deserve this money being spent on

them when good kids get so much

less?

I don't agree that good kids

get so much less.

But I have read

you the figures, they do, it costs

less.

But in terms of what they are

getting as a whole school

experience, it isn't less. Those

children who remain in mainstream

primary school, who can regulate

their emotions and manage their

behaviour, they have a very rich

curriculum in the school and they

are receiving quite a lot. However

these children are not able to. This

is our future generation, our future

children. If we don't invest in them

now, and we don't help them now, the

government will still need to spend

later on to support these young

people if we don't do it now.

There

is an incredible statistic from an

exclusion experts that we have

spoken to. 6500 pupils were

permanently excluded last year.

There organisation has calculated

that they will go on to cost the

state £2.1 billion in extra health

costs, criminal justice costs,

welfare and education, throughout

their lifetime. OK, thank you. Shall

we go round to class five? We are

going to talk more about the

techniques that you use for

controlling and ultimately changing

children's behaviour. I came here a

few weeks ago and I met quite a lot

of the children and we had lunch

together. After you. It is worth

saying that they were so polite. So

polite! So articulate as well. This

way?

It is important because we are

trying to teach them life skills. It

is important that they are able to

be part of society.

Class five.

Hello. Hello, everybody. Let me grab

a chair. Thank you. Thank you,

Barrington. Thank you so much. Where

are you going to sit? Hello. Let me

introduce lots more people. You

already know Andrew, Jacob,

Barrington, Mrs Gentles. And Jane

Harris. She is headteacher at

Edinburgh primary school. Kerry

Scott is headteacher at Ainslie

Wood, both based in nearby Waltham

Forest. And actually I just

mentioned your incredible fact that

6500 children excluded last year

will cost the state over £2 billion

over their lifetime. Incredible. I

wonder if you could just talk us

through behaviour. Please don't go

through the restraining techniques

and why you use them?

Restraint is a

last resort. If a child becomes a

danger to themselves or somebody

else, we have all been trained in

positive handling to handle them in

a safe way. If it is used

appropriately, which it is here all

the time, then it can be extremely

effective. It helps children to feel

emotionally and physically safe.

Could you ever use restraint in a

mainstream school?

Yes, if you are

trained but not all staff are.

At my

school, only a couple of members are

trained to use restraint. I don't

want people using it in the wrong

way. If a child needs restraint, and

it would be very unusual for a child

to need to be restrained, they would

call me or somebody else who has

been restraint trained and we would

go and break the decision about

whether they need to be restrained.

-- make the decision.

If a primary

school age people comes to a pupil

referral unit, does that mean the

mainstream primary school has failed

them?

It has and if the mainstream

school then works in partnership

with the PRU. One of the really,

really significant things about

Hawkswood is that it is to do with

partnership with the mainstream

school. There used to be an ethos

that by going to a PRU, even in

Waltham Forest a few years ago, that

that child was being sent away and

would never be seen again. But in

Waltham Forest, where the practice

is best, and in most schools it is

best, the child goes back to the

same school. There is a very strong

communication. We come up to the PRU

and visit throughout the child's

time in school.

Parents and people

wonder how a mainstream primary

school can be excluding permanently

children as young as four.

It is

rare for them to be permanently

excluded. The children here are not

permanently excluded mostly. It is a

process whereby they are referred by

a fairer access panel which we are

members.

Temporarily excluded then,

a four -year-old?

Add a question we

are always asking on the fairer

access panel is whether the school

is doing everything to support the

child.

This is the panel that refers

the child or not?

Yes. We can sit

and look. There can be times when a

school is thinking too rigidly and

the child is not fitting into that.

That is when it is our

responsibility to say you are not

thinking about the child here. Let's

but other techniques in place before

we would move the child onto the

PRU.

Let's talk about the effect of

exclusion on a child as they grow up

and their life chances.

It is clear

that here there is some brilliant

work going on which means that

students can be re-integrated back

into mainstream and be really

successful. The reason I started my

charity is because I am concerned

about the majority of people that

don't get reintegrated. We know that

increasingly more and more students

don't return to mainstream school

and their long-term outcomes are

really poor. The children who

finished their secondary school

education in a pupil referral unit,

how much likely to get the GCSE is

that they need to access further

education and one in two are

immediately unemployed after school.

That is the frightening statistic

because everybody deserves their

chance to get their dream career. We

need to reduce the numbers are

permanent exclusion and increase the

partnership working, the effective

early doors referral, when you

recognise there is something that

the school needs extra help with,

and you ask a brilliant pupil

referral unit to help you do that.

But as we have discussed they are

not all brilliant. The costs vary in

terms of how much it costs per pupil

in a pupil referral unit and the

length of stay varies. It is an

average 15 weeks in Bury and in

Camden it is just over two years, so

that doesn't make sense, doesn't it?

Maybe the mainstream school won't

take the child back. That can

happen.

It can do. In Waltham Forest

we have great partnerships with the

schools but yes, it can happen,

absolutely. We all need to work

together to work out what the best

next step is for that child. Is a

fresh start best?

I think it happens

when leaders don't know what the

stakes are. It is easy to think it

is just one pupil but over the whole

country it is more and more students

every year and the cost can be so

awful personally and as you

mentioned earlier £2.1 billion over

the lifetime of the population who

are excluded last year. That is a

huge cost nationally. We need more

leaders who are sensitised to the

risks of permanent exclusion who

know how to stop it from happening

and are passionate about taking on

these children.

But how can we do

that?

that?

There are pressures on

headteachers and when we get caught

up in the my school, my results,

league table situation, there is

huge pressure coming down on

headteachers. That squeaky wheel can

be a huge threat to the school.

However when you have got a good

partnership and there is an

excellent PRU doing excellent work

with the children, then we can be

confident that what is coming back

to us is a child that is ready to

reintegrate into mainstream

education and wants to. And just

remember that no child wants to

behave like this. They need the

intervention to support them and

ultimately what we want is to have

them back.

Shall I read you some

comments from people watching you

around the country is Mark Linda

says hats off to the wonderful staff

there.

there. Tasman says that Barrington

is amazing.

Yes, he is!

Brilliant

programme on PRUs. Amazing work. We

wish all the tools and all the best

and a brilliant future. A tweet from

Jane. If all the people I have met

in prison had experienced this

amazing care and patience they would

not be in prison. More investment in

fantastic teachers who need to be

trained will stop and this one,

watching Hawkswood primary pupil

referral unit. What an inspirational

place and inspirational staff. These

people need better pay and more

respect. The behaviour was

distressing but let's support these

people and offer the children hope.

Very briefly before we get the

weather forecast which is important

because it has been snowing all

morning but now it has stopped, I

know what you want to be when you

grow up. We were talking about life

chances. You want to be a vet. What

about Jacob?

I don't really know

because I have all my life ahead of

me to choose.

Absolutely. And what

about you?

A footballer.

Who is your

idol?

idol?

My favourite footballer? Paul

Pogba.

He isn't getting on well with

his manager at the moment! Thank you

so much. It is really good to see

you. Much more from this PRU in the

next hour of the programme. At first

order of the weather. Good morning.

next hour of the programme. At first

order of the weather. Good morning.

You are quite right. It has been

snowing in London and other parts of

the UK as well. This week we have

disruptive snow on the cards from

tonight. It wins, and a wind chill

that you will notice, and frost and

icy conditions. -- bitter winds. We

have showers coming in across the

east, not all of seeing them, and

drifting across to the west, which

will remain largely dry. Very cloudy

with the odd sunny spell.

Temperatures between freezing and

plus three in towns and cities and

lower than that in rural areas.

Overnight we have this line of snow

showers coming in through East

Anglia and Kent and the Channel

Islands, and significant snow in

eastern Scotland and North East

England, and it will be called

tonight with a widespread frost and

a risk of ice an untreated circuses.

-- cold tonight. Through the early

hours of Tuesday and into tomorrow

there is an amber weather warning

for snow. This is where those areas

are, the North East and the

south-east.

Hello, it's Monday, it's ten

o'clock, I'm Victoria Derbyshire.

Good morning, in a TV

first, we're broadcasting live

from a pupil referral

unit in London.

It's where primary

school children come

when they've been kicked

out their mainstream school.

We've discovered

there's been a big rise

in the numbers of young children

being educated in PRUs,

up 34% in England in the

past four years.

When I used to be in my mainstream

school, I used to keep coming out

and getting excluded and stuff, but

now I am in this special school, it

gives you extra help, it has helped

me more to understand how it is

better to go back into a mainstream

type of school.

The children who come

here are as young as four

and often have emotional problems

and a history of violent

and aggressive behaviour

towards teachers and other pupils.

Children are children, and they are

so young, so mouldable still, we

have got to give them a chance, this

is our future generation, so we

cannot write them off at primary

school-age.

The aim of these schools,

of course, is to turn that

challenging behaviour around,

so that kids can go back

to their mainstream schools

and hopefully go on to have a happy

and successful education.

When I first started here, I was

having trouble behaving, and I was

making loads of wrong choices.

That

is what you used to be like?

Yeah,

but now if there is somebody, like,

and oil in me or something, I will

just ignore them. -- annoying me.

And I would just stay away from them

if I knew they were going to create

trouble or something.

We've heard lots from the teachers

and pupils here, but there's another

group of people whose feelings

are often overlooked

in all this - the parents.

No parent ever thinks their child

is going to be the one that's

excluded from mainstream school.

He has made life difficult, not just

for me, but for himself, for whole

family. But try and do everything

you can, but you often find nothing

is enough.

We'll hear the experiences

of a group of parents

with children here at Hawkswood.

And as you'd expect,

we'd welcome your experiences -

does your child go

to a pupil referral unit?

Did you go to one?

Get in touch in the usual ways.

Just let me read a couple of

comments from you, this is from Ian,

what a lovely school for these

Japan, caring staff much needed to

give children a good start, so

heart-warming. -- for these

children. And says, what an amazing

head teacher, her compassionate

stance is amazing, incredibly

article at and sincere in her words.

And this one, students and staff at

Hawkswood PRU are on my hero list,

finding a way to engage is key, no

child is bad at heart, if they are

failing, it is because we are

failing. Much more of that to come,

let's bring you the news with Joanna

.

Jeremy Corbyn will set

out Labour's position

on Brexit this morning,

after months of demands

that the party clarify its plans.

In a speech later, he'll say

the UK should negotiate

a bespoke agreement with the EU

on a customs union,

and a strong new relationship

with the single market.

The Conservatives say his proposals

would breach promises made

at the last general election.

You can watch Mr Corbyn's

speech on this programme.

It's expected

in about half an hour.

Four people have been killed

in an explosion in Leicester,

which destroyed a building

in the middle of a parade of shops.

Another four people remain in

hospital, one with serious injuries.

Emergency teams are still searching

through the wreckage

in the Hinckley Road area

of the city.

Andy Moore reports.

The immediate aftermath

of an explosion

that destroyed a shop

and a two-storey shop above it.

Police say there were four

confirmed fatalities and four

people remain in hospital,

one with serious injuries.

The search and rescue

operation continued overnight

for any more victims.

Police say there may be other

people unaccounted for.

We still think this is a rescue

operation, we're using shoring

techniques to try to rescue anyone

who may be alive in the building.

Local people spoke about the force

of the explosion and the fierceness

of the fire that followed.

We heard a low explosion,

and it felt like a tremendous

shock through the house,

like it was going to

bring the ceiling down.

I rang the police, 999,

and they said, "What services?"

I said, "Everything you can send."

Police say they don't know

what caused the blast -

a joint investigation

with the Fire Service will get