13/03/2018 Victoria Derbyshire


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13/03/2018

Victoria hears from a victim of the abuse scandal in Telford which may have seen almost 1,000 girls groomed. Noel Edmonds explains why he is trying to sue Lloyds Banking Group.


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LineFromTo

Hello, it's Tuesday, it's 9 o'clock,

I'm Victoria Derbyshire,

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welcome to the programme.

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Our top story today.

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Moscow is considering its response

after Theresa May warned it had

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until midnight tonight

to explain its role in the Salisbury

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nerve agent attack or it

would face retaliation.

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Should there be no credible

response, we will conclude that this

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action amounts to an unlawful use

of force by the Russian state

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against the United Kingdom

and we will not tolerate such

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a brazen attempt to murder innocent

civilians on our soil.

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We'll hear growing calls that

England should boycott

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the World Cup this summer.

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Keen to hear from you,

would you support England

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withdrawing or is it just

empty gesture politics?

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Also on the programme.

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Police say tackling child

exploitation in Telford

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is their number one priority

after it's been revealed

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that up to 1,000 girls,

some as young as 11,

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may have been abused in the town

over the last 40 years.

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It's horrific and an absolute

disgrace and I think essentially

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what it means is that there

is really no end to the sexual abuse

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scandals that we're going

to see in this country.

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We'll hear from one victim

who was abused as a young teenager

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over a period of years,

raped countless times and forced

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to sleep with several men a night.

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And one of the biggest names

in British TV for most

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of our lifetimes is here to tell us

why he's trying to sue Lloyds

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Banking Group for over £60 million.

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Welcome to the programme,

we're live until 11.

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Throughout the morning we'll bring

you the latest breaking news

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and developing stories and as always

really keen to hear from you.

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A little later we'll hear

from two Asian friends

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who say their experience

of being turned away

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from a restaurant on Mother's Day

is a typical example of the kind

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of everyday racism people of colour

experience in the UK.

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That is after half-past ten.

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Really keen to hear your

experiences this morning.

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Use the hashtag #VictoriaLive

and if you text, you will be charged

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at the standard network rate.

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Our top story today.

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The hours are ticking down

towards the midnight deadline given

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to Russia by Theresa May over

the Salisbury nerve agent attack.

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The Prime Minister says

she'll take action unless

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by the end of the day Moscow is able

to explain its role.

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The UK has had backing

from the American Secretary

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of State, Rex Tillerson,

who said Russia was probably behind

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the poisoning of a former double

agent and his daughter,

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nine days ago.

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Caroline Davies reports.

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A supermarket car park shut down

to search for a lethal chemical.

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Hundreds of police are still at work

in Salisbury, trying to find out

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who poisoned a former Russian spy.

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Sergei Skripal and

his daughter Yulia are still

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critically ill in hospital.

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They were attacked

with a rare nerve agent.

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We now know it's a type only

developed by Russia called Novichok.

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Yesterday, the Prime Minister gave

an ultimatum to the Kremlin -

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explain how this happened

or there will be consequences.

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Either this was a direct act

by the Russian state

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against our country,

or the Russian government lost

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control of its potentially

catastrophically damaging nerve

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agent and allowed it to get

into the hands of others.

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The Russian ambassador has

until midnight tonight

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to return with an answer.

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Russia has denied being involved.

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President Putin brushed off

questions about the attack.

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TRANSLATION:

We are busy

with agriculture here

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to create good conditions

for people's lives

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and you talk to me

about some tragedies.

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First, work out what

actually happened there

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and then we'll talk about it.

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If there's no credible response,

the UK Government has said it

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will take action against Russia

for what happened here.

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But how far they can go will depend

on whether they can get the backing

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of other countries.

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This diplomatic stand-off

between Russia and the UK

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could yet turn into a crisis.

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Caroline Davies, BBC News.

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Let's get the latest from Norman at

Downing Street. The Cabinet are

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arriving for a meeting, what kind of

things could they do to Russia if

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Russia doesn't speak up before the

deadline?

Well, I think a couple of

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things follow from what we have the

Prime Minister yesterday, one is, I

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don't think anyone expects Russia to

come up with some sort of credible

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explanation as to how nerve agent

was used in the Salisbury attack,

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the second is, whatever the

Government decides to do, it's going

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to have to be an awful lot more than

happened after the murder of

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Alexander Litvinenko. Certainly you

got the sense that yesterday Theresa

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May was raising the bar in terms of

the likely Retallick three measures.

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What struck me most was that she

wasn't ruling anything out at all.

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You had Tory MPs saying, why don't

you follow the example of Edward

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Heath and he booted out 90 Russian

diplomats and assorted trade envoys?

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The view was that it's pretty much

put the lid on Russian espionage in

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the UK for the rest of the Cold War.

Mrs May didn't reject that as an

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option. Similarly she was asked, why

don't we engage in cyber warfare

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against Russia? Again she didn't

reject that. You just get the sense

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that really, nothing is off the

table. But the bottom line is,

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whatever we do is probably not going

to significantly impact on President

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Putin unless we get other countries

on board, that is why Mrs May has

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dropped about going to Nato and to

the UN, going to the EU. The hard

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part is, that is a much more slow,

time-consuming, difficult process

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because quite obvious that, other

countries have other agendas. You

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just have to look at the EU, where

the are a number of EU countries who

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are a bit sceptical about the

existing sanctions against Russia,

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never mind putting on additional

sanctions and many of them also

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highly dependent on Russian energy

supplies. So they are unnaturally

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cautious. With the UN, the problem

is, Russia, a prominent member, has

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a veto of any resolutions. Lastly,

America, the difficulty there is

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President Trump is somewhat

ambivalent attitudes towards

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President Putin, albeit there were

stronger words coming from Rex

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Tillerson last night. But the

options for a broader international

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move are quite difficult to put in

place

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will stop

Later on the programme we

will talk about whether England

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should boycott the World Cup in

June.

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We would like to hear from you. Do

let us know your own view.

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Here is then in the newsroom. --

here is Ben.

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The Chancellor, Philip Hammond,

is expected to deliver some positive

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economic news in his first ever

Spring Statement today.

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The statement, which replaces

the spring Budget, will include

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the latest official economic figures

but it will not impose new taxes.

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Labour ministers say Mr Hammond must

take the chance to end austerity.

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Productivity is still 35%, below

the French and Germans, for example.

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Unemployment levels are low

but the incredible amount

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of insecurity in jobs,

low pay, inflation is still high,

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investment both in the public

sector and private sector

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are critically low.

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So I don't think it's time

to crack open the champagne.

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But housing minister Dominic Raab

said the Chancellor would look

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to take a balanced approach

with the public finances.

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One of the obvious thing

he says is that he doesn't

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want to be engaged in

tinkering, short-term measures.

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That's been welcomed by business

and groups like

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the Institute for Government.

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I think you'll hear less

of the political clatter and fanfare

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that normally accompanies these set

piece events and more of the healthy

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economic hum that is warranted

by the raw economic data.

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The European Parliament meets

in Strasbourg later to debate

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the EU's guidelines on Brexit.

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After a speech from the European

Commission President,

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Jean-Claude Juncker,

MEPs will discuss the guidelines,

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And

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as well as their own resolution,

which outlines the parliament's

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priorities and so-called "red lines"

for the Brexit negotiations.

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The former Liverpool and England

defender Jamie Carragher says

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he'll accept any punishment that

comes his way after he was filmed

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spitting from his car

towards another vehicle.

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It happened after Manchester

United's 2-1 win over Liverpool

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where he was working

as a pundit for Sky Sports.

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He's been suspended from his job.

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Two victims of black cab

rapist John Worboys begin

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a High Court challenge today

against what they have called

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the irrational decision

to release him from jail.

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The judicial review is expected

to hear for the first time why

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the Parole Board plans to free

the sex attacker.

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The board and Worboys,

who will appear via video

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link from prison, oppose

the legal challenge.

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More details are beginning to emerge

of the allegations of abuse over

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four decades against girls

in the Shropshire town of Telford.

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The police have already said that

tackling child sex abuse

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is their top priority,

and that allegations in a Sunday

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newspaper aren't new to them.

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Up to a thousand girls are reported

to have been groomed and exploited

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with some as young as 11

being drugged and raped.

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Doctors in the UK and Ireland

have seen 130 cases

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of rickets in children under

16 over a two year period.

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It's the first study of its kind

into the prevalence of the illness

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which affects bone development.

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it can be prevented by taking

vitamin D supplements.

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A 17-year-old boy has died

after opening a parcel bomb

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delivered to his home

in Austin, Texas.

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A 39-year-old man and an elderly

woman have also been injured

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in what are believe to be related

incidents over the past 10 days.

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Police are looking into possible

motives behind the attacks.

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Salt content in takeaway dishes must

be urgently reduced in a bid

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to tackle strokes and heart disease,

campaigners have warned.

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A study by Action on Salt found some

Chinese meals including sides

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like prawn crackers contain

more than double

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the recommended daily intake.

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The survey also revealed a selection

of ready meals were high in salt.

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That's a summary of the latest

BBC News, more at 9.30am.

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If you are getting in touch with us,

you are very welcome.

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you are very welcome. Wright, sport.

Well Perry is that the BBC Sport

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Centre.

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Menna Fitzpatrick and her guide Jen

Kehoe have this morning won a silver

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medal at the Winter Paralympics in

Pyeongchang in the women's visually

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impaired super combined events. The

pair were second after the super-g

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run despite an impressive slalom

effort out there and they were

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unable to get the better of the

Slovakians. Great story, Menna

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Fitzpatrick, just 19, born with no

vision in her left eye, limited

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sight in her right eye, but started

skiing at the age of five. They have

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only been working together since

2015 and have built up a strong

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partnership. Millie Knight has

missed out on a third straight medal

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with Brett wild, her guide, they

workforce a slalom run. Kelly

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Gallagher finished seventh with Gary

Smith. In terms of the curling,

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Great Britain have dented their

hopes of a medal in the curling, it

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didn't quite go there with this

morning. They beat Canada yesterday.

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They were expected to see off the

Slovakians but they lost 6-5. The

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team tried to do a bit better

against the neutral Paralympic

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athletes later. That one starts at

around 10:30. Manchester City or

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even closer to the Premier League

title? It's inevitable call isn't

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it? That is the most interesting

thing, they beat Stoke last night

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2-0, David Silva with both goals.

They are restoring a 16 point leads

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and it means if you are from

Manchester this is huge because

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Manchester City need just two more

wins for the third Premier League

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title. If they beat Everton later

this month they could seal the

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Premier League title on Derby Day at

the Etihad against their rivals

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Manchester United. This will be on

the 7th of April, Vincent Kompany

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saying it is a once-in-a-lifetime

opportunity. Stoke, they are just a

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point from safety, eight games to

go. And another Premier League

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manager has lost his job? Yes,

amazingly, 20 teams in the Premier

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League, we're just in March, nine

Premier League managers have lost

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their jobs this season. Maurizio

Pellegrino of Southampton, he is no

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longer there, just one win in their

last 17 games, they still play

0:13:180:13:22

Arsenal, Chelsea, and Manchester

City at home, and only three matches

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from their remaining games at home.

I spoke to Pellegrino on Saturday

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and he didn't sound too convinced he

was still be in a job this week. I

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have to ask you again, do you still

think with eight games to go that

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you're the man that can keep

Southampton the Premier League?

I am

0:13:410:13:45

the Southampton manager right now.

And you're confident you can keep

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them up with yellow of course, if

not, I have to move along. But

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sometimes, one side they are the

winners you duller than your side of

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the losers.

But in a week you can

change everything with one victory.

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This is part of our life.

That was

his final interview in England,

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Pellegrino out, this man is the

favourite for the job, Marco Silva.

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Sacked by Watford in January. Other

names in the frame are Slaven Bilic,

0:14:160:14:21

Mark and Martin O'Neill. And who won

the latest tennis bottle of the

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Williams sister? Serena was beaten

by venous, at her comeback. --

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beaten by Venus Williams. 17 years

ago, this term it was the subject of

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race is abused so great to see these

two getting a great reception.

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Serena saying she has a long way to

go in this comeback and she revealed

0:14:440:14:48

in February she almost died after

giving birth. She was bedridden for

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six weeks. I will have the headlines

at half past nine.

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Let down for years by police

and social services,

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victims of the Telford abuse scandal

say it's time for authorities

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to accept their failings and hold

a public inquiry into how as many

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as 1,000 girls were abused

in the town over a 40 year period.

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On this programme yesterday we told

you the scandal could be the worst

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the country has ever seen.

0:15:160:15:18

Police there say tackling

child sexual exploitation

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remains their number one priority

but so far only seven men have been

0:15:200:15:25

convicted of any crimes with many

others escaping justice.

0:15:250:15:30

And there are reports that the abuse

could be linked to three murders

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and two deaths in the town.

0:15:340:15:38

As with other grooming

scandals we've seen

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the victims are mainly white,

and the abusers mainly British

0:15:410:15:46

Pakistani or Bangladeshi men.

0:15:460:15:49

Some of the girls as young as 11

were drugged, beaten and raped

0:15:490:15:52

over a number of years.

0:15:520:15:57

We can talk to Holly,

a victim of child sexual

0:15:570:15:59

exploitation in Telford.

0:15:590:16:00

She has agreed for us

to hear her tell her story

0:16:000:16:03

but she did not want us

to show her face.

0:16:030:16:06

Geraldine McKelvie, one

of the journalists behind

0:16:060:16:10

the Sunday Mirror investigation

which exposed child sexual

0:16:100:16:14

exploitation in Telford.

0:16:140:16:15

And the town's Conservative MP

Lucy Allan, who is calling

0:16:150:16:17

for a public enquiry.

0:16:170:16:23

Welcome, all of you, thank you

coming on the programme. Holly, I

0:16:230:16:27

will start with you, if I may. You

were 14 when your exploitation

0:16:270:16:31

began. How did it start?

I was

befriended by some boys my own age.

0:16:310:16:38

They were harassing me constantly.

What does that mean?

0:16:380:16:42

They were harassing me constantly.

What does that mean?

They were

0:16:420:16:47

constantly calling, saying, come and

meet us, they would be hanging

0:16:470:16:50

around.

0:16:500:16:55

around. It's difficult to explain.

Basically they took our phone

0:16:550:16:58

numbers, and then sold them on to

older men. And then from then, the

0:16:580:17:05

older men would bombard us

constantly with phone

0:17:050:17:11

constantly with phone calls,...

Saying what's to you?

Saying, come

0:17:120:17:18

and meet up with us, we will just go

chilling. That was at first, I was,

0:17:180:17:28

I don't want to. After receiving

hundreds of calls every day,

0:17:280:17:32

curiosity got the better of me and I

went and met one. At first it was

0:17:320:17:38

fine, he would go and buy us food,

top up our mobile phones, things

0:17:380:17:42

like that. So we built up a bit of

trust. And then he started violently

0:17:420:17:49

raping me. He would beat me with his

belt if I didn't agree to let him

0:17:490:17:58

rape me. And then he would try and

make me feel better by making

0:17:580:18:05

himself feel better, maybe, by

giving us money or topping up our

0:18:050:18:08

phones. From that man, it moved on

to many men, about seven abusers in

0:18:080:18:17

the end.

So you were passed around,

or they would all turn up en masse,

0:18:170:18:22

or what?

It would be almost whoever

caught me first. Whoever saw me

0:18:220:18:29

walking home from school first, or

to a friends house. Telford is a

0:18:290:18:36

very small area. So there's nowhere

to hide. Somebody knows where you

0:18:360:18:39

live, and your daily routine, so

they can find you. But it quickly

0:18:390:18:46

moved on to being sold on to men

every single day. So I would be

0:18:460:18:54

being sold, maybe two or three times

a night, taken in to the only thing

0:18:540:19:01

I can describe it as is a great

house, it was set up for the purpose

0:19:010:19:06

-- a rape house, set up for the

purpose of young girls being its

0:19:060:19:14

sold to men. People who would pay

for the girls in Telford, it wasn't

0:19:140:19:19

just Pakistani men, like we have

seen across the rest of the country,

0:19:190:19:22

there was every race and religion

coming in and wanting to pay for

0:19:220:19:26

girls.

How did you cope with this?

Everyone always asks, I can't really

0:19:260:19:34

explain. Almost like I was living in

a bubble. I was just numb I had no

0:19:340:19:40

feelings about anything, and all I

wanted to do was make my family

0:19:400:19:48

proud of me. So I continued going to

school, did my best, everything I

0:19:480:19:54

could do, just to try and make

something good it my family because

0:19:540:19:58

the reason why I kept going back

were they were threatening me of

0:19:580:20:07

bringing my house down, which was a

real threat in Telford because that

0:20:070:20:11

had happened previously. And they

said they would rape my mum and

0:20:110:20:16

sisters. They knew all about my

family. There was escape at all.

Why

0:20:160:20:22

did your parents think you were at

night? You were only 14. -- where

0:20:220:20:26

did they think you were?

My mum

would give me a curfew and go in the

0:20:260:20:32

house, the phone would be constantly

going off and I would say, it's

0:20:320:20:37

nobody. Mind your own business. I

would wait for her to go to bed

0:20:370:20:42

because she would think I was home

and safe, she would fall asleep and

0:20:420:20:46

I would go straight back out again.

Until all hours in the morning. Come

0:20:460:20:53

back, lie in bed and sometimes my

alarm would go off almost as soon as

0:20:530:20:57

I got into bed, ready to go to

school.

So just running off period

0:20:570:21:02

general in all the time. The idea of

-- just running of pure adrenaline

0:21:020:21:08

all the time. The idea of contacting

police was a no-no?

Yes, one man

0:21:080:21:15

turned up at my house saying that I

was a prostitute to my mum,...

An

0:21:150:21:23

abuser? Yellow Macri yes, the reason

was that I had not done what I had

0:21:230:21:28

told him to do. How did your mum

react?

She was angry.

Who at?

0:21:280:21:36

Everybody, because you don't expect

someone to say something about that

0:21:360:21:40

about your child. And the behaviour

I was displaying was almost general

0:21:400:21:47

teenage behaviour, I think it's

quite difficult to know the

0:21:470:21:49

difference between having a teenage

daughter and actual crying for help.

0:21:490:21:58

The one thing that I did do, I was

gang raped just after I turned 16.

0:21:580:22:05

That was probably the worst, the

worst thing that ever happened to

0:22:050:22:10

me. Sorry...

You do not need to

apologise.

After that, I tried to

0:22:100:22:19

commit suicide. People say, was it a

cry for help? And I said, no, I

0:22:190:22:25

genuinely wanted to die because I

thought that was the only way out.

0:22:250:22:28

Obviously I'm here today, and I'm

not suffering abuse any more, so

0:22:280:22:34

there is a way out. And I think it's

a front for every single person that

0:22:340:22:40

is involved. However, -- I think

it's different for every single

0:22:400:22:44

person involved. However, I was in

cars that were stopped and searched

0:22:440:22:48

by the police with older men, I was

never questioned why I was there, my

0:22:480:22:55

name was never asked. I think if

there had been more proactive

0:22:550:22:59

behaviour in points like that, then

things could have changed earlier. I

0:22:590:23:03

was also going to the doctor and the

youth sexual health clinic a couple

0:23:030:23:08

of times a week, for three years,

getting the morning after pill.

How

0:23:080:23:14

many times do you think you took it?

I could not even estimate.

Dozens,

0:23:140:23:20

hundreds, you were going twice a

week over three years? I know one

0:23:200:23:25

there raised the alarm?

-- and no

wonder raised the alarm? Nothing.

0:23:250:23:31

Did they ask you why you kept coming

back?

Note -- no, nobody asked any

0:23:310:23:39

questions and I had two abortions

and no questions asked. The summit

0:23:390:23:43

he had asked at just a few questions

and shown some some interest, I

0:23:430:23:50

might have spoken out and said,

there's something not quite right

0:23:500:23:53

and I'm not comfortable. Nothing was

ever said.

Gosh.

0:23:530:23:59

Let me bring in Geraldine, if I may.

Thank you, Holly, I know that was

0:23:590:24:03

hard for you. But I think just to

let the audience know the kind of

0:24:030:24:11

horrific experience that you have

gone through without anybody, any

0:24:110:24:16

grown-ups stepping income is just

really, really distressing.

0:24:160:24:22

Geraldine, you work for the Sunday

Mirror, you decided to investigate

0:24:220:24:26

child sexual exploitation in

Telford, what piqued your curiosity?

0:24:260:24:32

I had worked on a few stories about

what had happened in Rotherham and I

0:24:320:24:39

got in touch with Holly and I asked

if she would be interested in

0:24:390:24:43

telling her personal story. At

first, I thought it would only be

0:24:430:24:47

Holly's personal story, rather than

the wider story of what had been

0:24:470:24:50

going on in Telford. Once I spoke to

Holly, and realised what she was

0:24:500:24:57

saying about the sexual health and,

the morning after pill, the other

0:24:570:25:04

girls and the threats to burn down

her house, that was a really real

0:25:040:25:09

threat in Telford because two years

previously, it had happened to a

0:25:090:25:12

girl who had had a baby at 14 with

an abuser. I just thought, there's

0:25:120:25:18

something more to the story than

just Holly's personal story. There

0:25:180:25:22

seems to be a scandal just as bad as

Rotherham and Rochdale.

You spoke to

0:25:220:25:30

12 victims, how have you gone from

12 to this estimated figure of

0:25:300:25:37

hundreds in Telford?

We asked an

expert from London Metropolitan

0:25:370:25:41

University to look at our figures

and the timescale that our oldest

0:25:410:25:50

victim is nearly 50, and our

youngest is still a teenager. All of

0:25:500:25:53

the victims we spoke to were largely

completely unconnected, it was not

0:25:530:25:58

just one small group of friends that

were all being abused by the same

0:25:580:26:01

people at the same time. This is

somebody who had been abused in the

0:26:010:26:05

early 80s and then a girl whose last

violent rape was just months ago. We

0:26:050:26:11

explained to this expert that the

police themselves have identified

0:26:110:26:16

over a two-year period in Telford,

between 2007 and 2009, there could

0:26:160:26:23

have been 100 victims. Based on the

timescale and the police's and

0:26:230:26:28

figures, we managed to estimate

that. There could be 1000 victims,

0:26:280:26:31

we think.

And when we have reported

on child sexual exploitation in

0:26:310:26:38

Rochdale, in Rotherham for example,

the cases revolve mostly about

0:26:380:26:43

British Pakistani and Bangladeshi

men, and white girls, but you have

0:26:430:26:46

also spoken to Asian victims?

We

cannot get away from the fact that

0:26:460:26:50

the vast majority of the abusers are

from a Pakistani heritage community.

0:26:500:26:56

But in Holly's story and a lot of

other stories we heard from girls,

0:26:560:27:02

although the abuse is being

organised by men from the Pakistani

0:27:020:27:05

heritage community, a lot of girls

are being sold to men of a lot of

0:27:050:27:12

different ethnicities. What is a

factor in the Telford scandal is

0:27:120:27:18

that there are some Asian victims.

We've spoken to an Asian victim, we

0:27:180:27:22

have also seen some files relating

to the case about an Asian victim

0:27:220:27:25

who felt pregnant six times in four

years. But I think that because in

0:27:250:27:35

some Asian communities this is seen

as so shameful and the girls would

0:27:350:27:39

have been shunned, we would never

get the extent of their abuse.

Let

0:27:390:27:45

me bring in the MP for the area, why

has this happened in Telford?

I

0:27:450:27:49

think we've heard this is not an

isolated incident. I've been aware

0:27:490:27:54

of people coming to me telling me

such similar stories to what Holly

0:27:540:27:59

has been so bravely recounting

today. They all have very similar

0:27:590:28:02

features. Online grooming is often a

precursor to further activity. It's

0:28:020:28:09

happening because people are not

identifying it as a crime, and I

0:28:090:28:16

think historically, it was looked at

as young girls in gauging in risky

0:28:160:28:23

behaviour not recognising the

element of coercion and fear and

0:28:230:28:27

shame that they were acting in ways

that they were about the Bible and

0:28:270:28:35

self-preservation. The threats to

family, I -- it was about survival

0:28:350:28:41

and self preservation. The threats

to family, I had heard that, I did

0:28:410:28:45

not hear that it had happened but

they would say, they are threatening

0:28:450:28:48

my sister and my mother.

What you

say about the way victims presented

0:28:480:28:54

themselves, led to some in authority

to not treat them as victims,

0:28:540:28:59

however, when Holly tells us that

she's going to a clinic to get the

0:28:590:29:02

morning after pill twice a week for

three years, that's hundreds of

0:29:020:29:07

times. Hundreds of times. You don't

have to be a trained medical health

0:29:070:29:12

professional to think, there is

something wrong here. Plus two

0:29:120:29:16

abortions, oh, my goodness.

This is

about failing to join the dots...

0:29:160:29:23

It's about social and cultural

attitudes to young women and girls,

0:29:230:29:28

where it is seen that it is the

victim that brought it on themselves

0:29:280:29:33

and that's what I find abhorrent

about this. That people will more to

0:29:330:29:36

turn a blind eye but almost say,

that's how they behave, isn't it.

0:29:360:29:41

And therefore we should not be

interfering. That's the problem, the

0:29:410:29:44

social and cultural attitudes of

young women and girls were people

0:29:440:29:49

feel this is perfectly normal

behaviour for these young girls,

0:29:490:29:53

without questioning why it is that

they're engaging in sexual activity

0:29:530:30:00

with men who were 30 or 40 and that

only 14.

He first called for a

0:30:000:30:05

public inquiry into 16, no one is

listening, it would seem? -- you

0:30:050:30:10

first called for a public inquiry?

I

asked the Prime Minister to have an

0:30:100:30:16

independent public inquiry into the

bed in Telford in 2016 because I

0:30:160:30:19

genuinely we have got to find why it

happens.

That was two years ago, was

0:30:190:30:26

that Cameron?

That was Theresa May.

At that time, we were told by the

0:30:260:30:32

authorities in Telford that there

was sufficient investigation going

0:30:320:30:37

on under the National inquiry that

was being led by Baroness Jay, and

0:30:370:30:41

in due course, that inquiry would

come to Telford. We now know that's

0:30:410:30:47

not true. The authorities are still

using that as a reason today not to

0:30:470:30:52

have an inquiry. So I am going to

restate my request for an

0:30:520:30:58

independent inquiry, I've put in

today in Parliament for an urgent

0:30:580:31:03

question. This cannot go on.

0:31:030:31:05

Lucy Allen, with Rochdale and

Rotherham, one of the issues that

0:31:100:31:14

stops people in authority who could

help these young people was

0:31:140:31:19

political correctness, for want of a

better phrase, they thought they

0:31:190:31:23

approached a man of a dost-mac a

British Pakistani man about

0:31:230:31:30

allegations of exploiting and raping

young girls, they would be accused

0:31:300:31:32

of racism. Is this relevant to

Telford, bearing in mind Geraldine

0:31:320:31:36

has already said it wasn't just men

of colour ayes

Think it has some

0:31:360:31:41

relevance to Telford. In any police

investigation, you have to profile

0:31:410:31:45

the perpetrator, you have to profile

the victim and it's quite clear the

0:31:450:31:49

victims are often white, often

working-class young girls from

0:31:490:31:53

disadvantaged backgrounds and the

minute the high-profile case of

0:31:530:31:57

operation chalice for all of

Pakistani heritage.

OK. This tweet,

0:31:570:32:03

this is not just happening in

Telford, this is taking place in

0:32:030:32:06

most major towns and it's not just

girls, it is boys too. This from

0:32:060:32:14

Anak, absolutely heartbreaking

hearing the story of the victim of

0:32:140:32:16

the abuse in Telford on your

programme this morning. We really

0:32:160:32:19

need to do more for girls like this,

we have let them down too many

0:32:190:32:23

times. Well done, Lucy Allen for

supporting these victims. My Salim

0:32:230:32:27

says there is an amazing lady on

your programme today talking about

0:32:270:32:31

the horrific abuse she suffered in

Telford.

0:32:310:32:37

Telford. -- Marceline says. Ian

says, this is terrible, it frightens

0:32:380:32:43

me and I'm a grown man. One of them

for making this a serious topic of

0:32:430:32:48

discussion. The PC brigade would

condemn me. Stephen says, as a

0:32:480:32:55

parent I cannot fathom how the

parents had no idea what was going

0:32:550:32:59

on, they could not see anything was

going on with their child. We will

0:32:590:33:04

see what happens. You will continue

to call for a public enquiry. Thank

0:33:040:33:10

you to you all.

0:33:100:33:12

Still to come...

0:33:120:33:14

One of the biggest names in British

television tells us why he's trying

0:33:140:33:17

to sue Lloyds Banking Group for more

than £60 million.

0:33:170:33:20

And we'll have the very latest

from the High Court,

0:33:200:33:23

where two victims of the taxi driver

rapist John Worboys are due

0:33:230:33:26

to challenge the decision

to release him from prison.

0:33:260:33:34

Time for the latest

news, here's Ben Brown

0:33:350:33:37

with the BBC News

headlines this morning.

0:33:370:33:39

The Cabinet is meeting about now

to discuss the midnight deadline

0:33:390:33:42

for the Kremlin to explain how

a nerve agent -

0:33:420:33:45

developed in the Soviet Union -

was used to attack a former

0:33:450:33:47

Russian spy in Salisbury.

0:33:470:33:50

The poison used in the attack

on Sergei Skripal in Salisbury

0:33:500:33:54

was a military-grade nerve agent,

part of a group known as Novichok.

0:33:540:34:01

Theresa May has promised

to retaliate if Moscow's

0:34:030:34:05

response isn't satisfactory.

0:34:050:34:06

Nato has issued a statement

condemning the use of nerve agent

0:34:060:34:08

and reiterating that the UK

is a highly valued ally.

0:34:080:34:13

One of the victims of grooming

and rape in the Shropshire town

0:34:130:34:16

of Telford has revealed details

of her ordeal on

0:34:160:34:19

the Victoria Derbyshire programme.

0:34:190:34:20

The woman, speaking anonymously,

says she was gang-raped

0:34:200:34:22

and sold between men,

and that her family was threatened

0:34:220:34:25

if she refused to comply.

0:34:250:34:28

She also said that the alarm was not

raised by the health or police

0:34:280:34:32

authorities despite repeated

prescriptions for the morning

0:34:320:34:33

after pill, and being seen in cars

with much older men.

0:34:330:34:40

The Chancellor, Philip Hammond,

is expected to deliver some positive

0:34:400:34:42

economic news in his first ever

Spring Statement today.

0:34:420:34:49

The statement, which replaces

the Spring Budget, will include

0:34:490:34:51

the latest official economic figures

but it will not impose new taxes.

0:34:510:34:55

Labour ministers say Mr Hammond must

take the chance to end austerity.

0:34:550:35:03

Some reports say they will be an

effort to reduce pressure on the

0:35:060:35:09

NHS.

0:35:090:35:10

The European Parliament meets

in Strasbourg later to debate

0:35:100:35:12

the EU's guidelines on Brexit.

0:35:120:35:13

After a speech from the European

Commission President,

0:35:130:35:15

Jean-Claude Juncker,

MEPs will discuss the guidelines,

0:35:150:35:19

as well as their own resolution,

which outlines the parliament's

0:35:190:35:22

priorities and so-called "red lines"

for the Brexit negotiations.

0:35:220:35:25

Two victims of black cab

rapist John Worboys begin

0:35:250:35:27

a High Court challenge today

against what they have called

0:35:270:35:30

the irrational decision

to release him from jail.

0:35:300:35:34

The judicial review is expected

to hear for the first time why

0:35:340:35:37

the Parole Board plans to free

the sex attacker.

0:35:370:35:40

The board and Worboys,

who will appear via video

0:35:400:35:42

link from prison, oppose

the legal challenge.

0:35:420:35:47

The former Liverpool and England

defender Jamie Carragher says

0:35:470:35:50

he'll accept any punishment that

comes his way after he was filmed

0:35:500:35:53

spitting from his car

towards another vehicle.

0:35:530:35:57

It happened after Manchester

United's 2-1 win over Liverpool

0:35:570:35:59

where he was working

as a pundit for Sky Sports.

0:35:590:36:02

He's been suspended from his job.

0:36:020:36:10

That's a summary of

the latest BBC News.

0:36:100:36:18

Some messages from people who were

watching Holly speak. I'm watching

0:36:180:36:23

your programme and as a grown man

with teenage daughters I'm almost in

0:36:230:36:26

tears listening to her story. Yet

another shocking, disgusting sexual

0:36:260:36:31

abuse story. The grooming and rape

of hundreds of young girls by much

0:36:310:36:34

Bachasson amen. It's hard to believe

this goes on in this country, I'm

0:36:340:36:39

almost embarrassed to be a man.

Another tweet, a brave victim who

0:36:390:36:44

has recanted the abuse she went

through. Alice says, incredible

0:36:440:36:49

bravery in such an important

conversation on your programme.

0:36:490:36:51

Something needs to change in how we

protect vulnerable young people in

0:36:510:36:55

society.

Tanya says, I'm horrified by what

0:36:550:36:57

I'm listening to, the evidence

around sexual abuse ignored for so

0:36:570:37:01

long and so horrendously prevalent.

And this text from George, I know

0:37:010:37:06

the three families whose children

were abused, then murdered in

0:37:060:37:09

Telford. They didn't want to cause

any race problems, and they were

0:37:090:37:14

told that.

Thank you for those, do keep them

0:37:140:37:18

coming. Here is the latest sport.

Britain's Menna Fitzpatrick and her

0:37:180:37:24

guide Jen Kehoe have won silver at

the Winter Paralympics in the

0:37:240:37:28

women's visually impaired super

combined and Ben. Millie Knight

0:37:280:37:31

missed out on a third straight medal

with Brett Wild.

0:37:310:37:35

They were for. Two goals from David

Silva helped Manchester City to a

0:37:350:37:40

win at Stoke last night, Pep

Guardiola's team in a 16 point lead

0:37:400:37:43

in the Premier League so they could

win the title against Manchester

0:37:430:37:46

United at the Etihad next month.

Southampton have sacked Murray to

0:37:460:37:51

Pellegrino after just one win in 17

league games. Is the ninth Premier

0:37:510:37:56

League boss to lose his job this

season. Marco Silva is the favourite

0:37:560:37:59

to take charge.

Serena Williams says she has a long

0:37:590:38:03

way to go in her comeback after the

birth of our child following defeat

0:38:030:38:07

against her sister Venus. I will

have more for you at ten.

0:38:070:38:10

Noel Edmonds, face of BBC Saturday

night TV for decades and then Deal

0:38:100:38:14

or No Deal on Channel 4,

says he was almost left bankrupt

0:38:140:38:16

after falling victim to a multi

million pound fraud at Lloyds.

0:38:160:38:21

He's seeking £60 million

in compensation over losses

0:38:210:38:26

he claims he suffered

when his former business,

0:38:260:38:30

Unique Group, collapsed.

0:38:300:38:33

The £245 million loans scandal

at Halifax Bank of Scotland,

0:38:330:38:36

which was later bought by Lloyds,

saw several men jailed

0:38:360:38:38

for their part in the scandal

with the bankers being dubbed

0:38:380:38:41

the British Wolves of Wall Street.

0:38:410:38:44

Lloyds have previously disputed

Noel Edmonds' claim that the fraud

0:38:440:38:47

caused his business to collapse.

0:38:470:38:50

Now in an exclusive interview

Noel Edmonds tells us he was left

0:38:500:38:53

suicidal and at rock

bottom after the losses.

0:38:530:38:55

He joins us now.

0:38:550:39:01

Good morning, how are you?

And very

good, it's a great pleasure.

How

0:39:020:39:06

have you worked out it is sitting

knowing you need back? It such a lot

0:39:060:39:11

of money to bail it is a huge

amount. It was independently

0:39:110:39:15

assessed by a highly respected

accountancy firm.

They are experts

0:39:150:39:19

in forensic accountancy. There were

stories in the press it was 300

0:39:190:39:24

million, etc. The figure has been

assessed at about 60 million. The

0:39:240:39:29

businesses that were destroyed would

have been worth that amount of

0:39:290:39:34

money.

How did it collapse?

Actually, I am one of many, many

0:39:340:39:39

victims in this country. I find

myself as a reluctant People's

0:39:390:39:45

Champion. This started a year ago

when those people went to prison and

0:39:450:39:49

I realise one of those people was my

bank manager. I previously thought,

0:39:490:39:54

I must have been rubbish business.

But then it became very clear, this

0:39:540:39:58

is a common thing with victims,

suddenly a light goes on and you go,

0:39:580:40:04

actually, my farm was taken away for

this reason or I lost my garage for

0:40:040:40:08

this reason. We are talking about

thousands of people, maybe tens of

0:40:080:40:12

thousands, not the 60 or so that

Lloyds Banking Group claim. And

0:40:120:40:20

basically, SMEs were targeted for

their assets. OK, the people that

0:40:200:40:24

went to prison took that policy to

extremes. But unfortunately, it is a

0:40:240:40:29

policy that has been prevalent

throughout British banking for many,

0:40:290:40:33

many years. It does go back to the

1990s, and the banks saw a way of

0:40:330:40:39

boosting their balance sheets by

acquiring the assets of businesses,

0:40:390:40:41

and in my case Mark Unique Group had

some great assets, and we were not

0:40:410:40:46

able to realise the value of those

assets, which meant that basically

0:40:460:40:52

we were forced into administration,

the bank came after me for money

0:40:520:40:57

under my personal guarantees, which

forced me to the edge of bankruptcy.

0:40:570:41:01

And it had a huge impact on you

personally, tell the audience a

0:41:010:41:05

little about that.

Well, a massive

impact. It was an incredibly

0:41:050:41:10

stressful time, that is a real

understatement, because I am either

0:41:100:41:16

by nature or nurture a very positive

person but last year I decided I

0:41:160:41:20

might be able to benefit other

people if I said, yes, I tried to

0:41:200:41:24

take my life. The reaction to that

has been, um, humbling. I was

0:41:240:41:33

delighted with the reaction from the

Samaritans, who have supported for

0:41:330:41:36

many years, and I'm pleased to say

there are individuals who I am now

0:41:360:41:40

still regularly in contact with, who

attributed the fact they did not

0:41:400:41:44

take their lives to the fact they

heard the bloke of the telly had

0:41:440:41:47

been driven into that dark space.

Never being judgmental about someone

0:41:470:41:54

who attempts to take your life

because until you have been in that

0:41:540:41:57

space you cannot know how bad it is.

And we have an epidemic of suicide

0:41:570:42:00

in this country. It is particularly

men. They always want to be seen to

0:42:000:42:09

be strong, to be providing for the

family, and suddenly you are exposed

0:42:090:42:13

as fallible to yourself and it takes

you to a very dark place.

And what

0:42:130:42:17

about the impact on those around

you?

It was huge, devastating for in

0:42:170:42:25

all of this, with the failure of

Unique Group, it's easy to forget,

0:42:250:42:29

but I didn't forget that over 70

people lost their jobs, they had to

0:42:290:42:33

be told they were going to be made

redundant, that impacts on to many

0:42:330:42:40

other people in their social circles

and in their family. It was a

0:42:400:42:43

horrendous period in my life. And at

the time, I just thought that I was

0:42:430:42:49

rubbish at business, my Chief

Executive thought the same thing.

0:42:490:42:54

Then suddenly, we realise we are

part of a cold, calculating plan to

0:42:540:43:00

destroy the business. That's why I'm

taking legal action against Lloyds

0:43:000:43:04

Banking Group because I've tried to

negotiate with them, but as with so

0:43:040:43:07

many of the other victims, they say

one thing in public, but in private,

0:43:070:43:12

they have a different agenda.

They

said they have tried mediation had

0:43:120:43:16

offered you composition but it's not

enough?

I had an independent review,

0:43:160:43:22

which cannot be independent because

they paid the professor, he's not a

0:43:220:43:27

real professor and he doesn't have

any qualifications.

I don't know if

0:43:270:43:31

that is true about his

qualifications, I just need to say

0:43:310:43:34

that. But I'm talking about the

mediation. It is fair to say it

0:43:340:43:38

wasn't enough?

They put me into this

review, which is not independent...

0:43:380:43:44

Again, I don't know if it is

independent or not.

They describe it

0:43:440:43:48

as independent. It is not

transparent people have to sign

0:43:480:43:52

gagging orders. Contrary to what

their Chairman said last May, no-one

0:43:520:43:57

is compensated for their losses.

They give money for the distress.

0:43:570:44:01

And of course, the people who are

victims have to be honest and they

0:44:010:44:05

have to say there are circumstances

as part of filling out this form for

0:44:050:44:11

the review. So, lawyers know that

people are tough time so they are

0:44:110:44:15

able to offer them the minimum

amount of money. So they forced me

0:44:150:44:19

into the review, we filed a 90 page

statement of the losses, they

0:44:190:44:24

immediately threw me out the review

and said, we will go to mediation. I

0:44:240:44:29

went to mediation with an

astonishingly well qualified chap,

0:44:290:44:34

wonderful man, and I went to

negotiate and to settle. They didn't

0:44:340:44:37

come for that.

It wasn't enough,

that's the bottom line?

They started

0:44:370:44:44

off with an insulting the money,

they didn't even offer to give me

0:44:440:44:47

back the money that they got through

a corrupt High Court action. They

0:44:470:44:52

offered me, in the end, after ten

hours, £3.6 million, which I grant

0:44:520:44:57

you is a massive amount of money,

who wouldn't want that in their bank

0:44:570:45:01

account cos but in the context of 60

million, I have stole from you £600,

0:45:010:45:07

you are upset and I offer you £36

back.

0:45:070:45:15

They wouldn't admit a crime was

committed or that I was a victim and

0:45:150:45:21

they fought me into a bad situation.

The professor you have mentioned

0:45:210:45:26

says he is independent, I am just

going to say that...

He can't be.

0:45:260:45:30

Don't keep saying the same thing, he

says he is.

But he paid by Lloyds.

0:45:300:45:37

I'm just saying what he says. Leslie

says, go for it, you are

0:45:370:45:43

representing people who have lost

everything. Homes, businesses, and

0:45:430:45:45

in some cases their livestock and I

have been humbled by the -- in some

0:45:450:45:53

cases their lives.

I have been

humbled by the response. This is not

0:45:530:45:59

just about Lloyds, it is the whole

financial sector, people who have

0:45:590:46:03

lost everything and they don't have

the litigation funding that I have

0:46:030:46:06

secured. It was a massive moment for

me when one of the biggest funders

0:46:060:46:11

in the world said we have looked at

your case and on merit, we will fund

0:46:110:46:14

it.

I have seen some estimates that

you're worth £75 million, is that

0:46:140:46:21

true?

No.

What are you worth, do you

think?

I've no idea, at the moment,

0:46:210:46:29

very little, because until the

funders came along, I was finding it

0:46:290:46:33

myself. I'm determined to win this,

and if my one legacy is that other

0:46:330:46:40

people get justice, I will be

satisfied.

You said you are a

0:46:400:46:46

positive person, and how does the

positive side of your nature fit in

0:46:460:46:51

with this battle against Lloyds?

The

moment I realised that I was the

0:46:510:46:56

victim, of criminals, then I was

able to put positive spin on it. And

0:46:560:47:02

I do have the facts now. I've done a

lot of work with people like Lord

0:47:020:47:10

Cromwell, Vince Cable, the APPG on

this. Unfortunately I do know an

0:47:100:47:14

awful

0:47:140:47:16

this. Unfortunately I do know an

lots now about the way banks

0:47:160:47:19

operating and I agree with the

comment of the MPs in January at the

0:47:190:47:24

APPG debate that there is systemic

criminality and malpractice within

0:47:240:47:29

British banks, principally RBS and

Lloyds. And it's really upsetting,

0:47:290:47:36

to realise this is a massive

national scandal that has affected

0:47:360:47:40

everyone in the country. We've had

ten years of austerity because of a

0:47:400:47:44

relatively small number of corrupt

bankers.

There is no evidence of

0:47:440:47:51

systemic commonality, and going to

read this statement from Lloyds if I

0:47:510:47:53

may.

0:47:530:47:54

"Lloyds Banking Group made

determined efforts to reach

0:47:540:47:56

a consensual resolution

with Mr Edmonds through

0:47:560:47:58

mediation late last year,

but this was not possible.

0:47:580:48:00

As a formal litigation process

is now anticipated it would be

0:48:000:48:03

inappropriate to comment other

than to say his claim

0:48:030:48:05

will be contested."

0:48:050:48:07

They would say that. It's the Mandy

Rice Davies comment.

I know. You

0:48:070:48:14

were diagnosed with prostate cancer.

In 2013.

And you believe, I think,

0:48:140:48:23

that part of the stress of the

business collapsing contributed to

0:48:230:48:25

that?

Yes, it is a scientific fact,

medical fact, that stress can

0:48:250:48:32

contribute to wide range of

diseases. We have a health under

0:48:320:48:37

their neck in the UK, is that

anything to do with the very

0:48:370:48:40

stressful -- we have health epidemic

in the UK, is that to do with the

0:48:400:48:44

stressful way we live our lives? The

scientists say yes, it manifests in

0:48:440:48:48

different ways but for me, when I

got that diagnosis, I looked back

0:48:480:48:53

and I thought, I know how this has

come about. And I was determined

0:48:530:48:57

from that awful moment when I had to

tell Liz, I have cancer...

Your

0:48:570:49:01

wife's?

Yes, I was determined I

would come at it with a smile on my

0:49:010:49:08

face, befriend my tumour, I even put

it on my screen saver, that would

0:49:080:49:12

not talk about attacking cancer, not

talk about a war, I would just ask

0:49:120:49:17

it to leave. And my consultant who

gave me the treatment that

0:49:170:49:23

thankfully worked and destroyed the

tumour, he said he had never met

0:49:230:49:28

such a positive person. He kept

looking at my medical records

0:49:280:49:32

saying, keep getting your date of

birth wrong here, are you really?

0:49:320:49:36

I'm 70 in December, he couldn't

believe it. I do believe there is a

0:49:360:49:41

direct link between your positive

attitude to all sorts of things,

0:49:410:49:45

whether it's Lloyds Banking Group or

cancer, and the outcome.

What kind

0:49:450:49:50

of things would you say to your

cancer, or a photograph of your

0:49:500:49:55

tumour?

I called it my little

friend, and I would ask it to go

0:49:550:49:59

away.

In polite terms or did where?

No, you have to befriend it.

-- did

0:49:590:50:06

you swear?

No, you have to befriend

it. I changed certain aspects of my

0:50:060:50:14

diet, I am huge advocate of positive

electromagnetism which I think has a

0:50:140:50:18

positive role to play in a range of

illnesses. This looks like a mobile

0:50:180:50:23

phone, this is an app which I have

subsequently developed and I want to

0:50:230:50:26

make available to people free, which

gives you post electromagnetism over

0:50:260:50:30

time.

You are criticised for two

things around the issue of Cancer,

0:50:300:50:36

one was the gadget, the yoga mat or

the electromagnetic pad, which you

0:50:360:50:44

suggested could help tackle cancer,

tackle, being irrelevant word you

0:50:440:50:50

use. And second you were criticised,

someone tweeted you and said you

0:50:500:51:00

were talking about quackery, and you

said, scientific fact, disease is

0:51:000:51:07

caused by negative energy, is it

positive your ill health is caused

0:51:070:51:11

by your negative attitude, do you

regret that? Not at all. I regret

0:51:110:51:15

the fact that he didn't answer the

question.

Why would you suggest that

0:51:150:51:18

to someone?

Because it is a

scientific fact that negative energy

0:51:180:51:26

causes disease and negative thoughts

are part of that process.

0:51:260:51:31

If you are face with a serious

illness, you have come at it with a

0:51:310:51:36

positive mental attitude. It changes

the outcome and millions of doctors

0:51:360:51:39

and scientists will tell you that.

But don't you think it's a horrible

0:51:390:51:43

thing to say to a cancer survivor?

I

think it was horrible, the way he

0:51:430:51:48

started the dialogue.

But I'm asking

you about what you said to him.

The

0:51:480:51:51

any concession I will make is, I

stopped doing quite a because I

0:51:510:51:56

realised you cannot have a balanced

debate through Twitter.

Do not think

0:51:560:52:01

it was horrible what you said to

him?

Nope, -- because I asked him a

0:52:010:52:09

question. It is perfectly reasonable

to ask if someone's negative

0:52:090:52:12

attitude has contributed to the

situation you find yourself in.

Do

0:52:120:52:17

you not think it would to a person?

Possibly.

Is that it?

That chapter

0:52:170:52:25

has gone. I'm very, very relaxed

with the principle that if you want

0:52:250:52:32

to tackle big problems in your life

and serious disease, you have to

0:52:320:52:36

come at it in a positive way. And

there's a whole range of things you

0:52:360:52:41

can do before you subject yourself

to big Pharma and chemicals in your

0:52:410:52:46

body, etc.

Do you think all cancers

can be caused by negative attitude?

0:52:460:52:51

No.

Which once?

I don't know, I'm

not a doctor.

Exactly.

The point

0:52:510:53:01

you're making is? I don't know what

the point is making.

You suggested

0:53:010:53:09

to one cancer survivor that his

disease with down to his attitude.

0:53:090:53:13

No, I ask a question. I was not

doing a diagnosis, I was saying, is

0:53:130:53:18

it possible? You could come at it

the other way and say, somebody

0:53:180:53:21

could come at it and think, that's a

good point, and I in this situation

0:53:210:53:26

because I have created a negative

energy about my being? That could be

0:53:260:53:29

a positive thing.

And obviously you

know that there are very positive

0:53:290:53:34

people who get serious diseases who

don't make it.

Correct, my father

0:53:340:53:39

being one.

So it's not just about

positive attitude?

It's not binary.

0:53:390:53:45

I do think we need to explore a lot

more about the energy of the human

0:53:450:53:50

body, and we need to understand,

it's back to my FK oh, find out the

0:53:500:53:56

facts, then gain the knowledge, then

you are qualified to get an opinion.

0:53:560:54:01

Let's got some messages for you.

Everyone is behind you, says

0:54:010:54:05

Christopher, in your legal battle, I

hope you get your money back and

0:54:050:54:09

fight for the little guy, good luck.

Mohammed says, I must admit, such a

0:54:090:54:13

good interview, I went through the

same thing, I'm happy he's getting

0:54:130:54:16

justice for what he's lost. I hope

more get justice. Karen says, go for

0:54:160:54:22

it, I'm sure hundreds of others are

behind you and I hope you beat the

0:54:220:54:26

big conglomerates. Chris, 60 million

is just greed, he does need this

0:54:260:54:30

money, he taking advantage, do you

want to respond to that?

-- he does

0:54:300:54:34

not eat is money. It's back to

facts, knowledge, opinion. I had my

0:54:340:54:41

business is stolen for me, I never

talked about competition. I and

0:54:410:54:47

asking -- I'm giving the chance for

compensation. They proposed nicking

0:54:470:54:53

my car and giving the wheels back.

There's another thought about that,

0:54:530:55:00

but I will be polite.

Hazel on

Facebook says to me, you were very

0:55:000:55:05

rude to ask in what he was worth.

In

the current BBC climate, for

0:55:050:55:11

goodness' sake, you got to ask the

question, even if I don't regard it

0:55:110:55:14

of being worthy of an answer.

Tracy

says, these banks have destroyed

0:55:140:55:21

people for way too long, especially

Lloyds. Do you miss being on

0:55:210:55:24

television?

I thought we were on

telly?

A weekly show.

No, I don't. I

0:55:240:55:34

have had just the most wonderful

career. It reaches the 50 year

0:55:340:55:38

milestone in September, that's when

I first started in radio. I'm in a

0:55:380:55:43

building which I respect and

appreciate, and at every

0:55:430:55:48

opportunity, because there has been

misrepresentation, I thank the BBC

0:55:480:55:52

for 30 fantastic years of one full

opportunity. I decided -- wonderful

0:55:520:55:58

opportunity. I decided of my English

and to concentrate my businesses

0:55:580:56:03

which were then destroyed by HBOS

and Lloyds, and I was saved by

0:56:030:56:07

Channel 4 asking me to do Deal Or No

Deal, I did ten years, 3000 shows,

0:56:070:56:14

because of the tabloid world we live

in, it was axed, but ten years of

0:56:140:56:18

opening doctors is enough.

If

someone approached you with a format

0:56:180:56:24

you like you would do it?

Exacta, if

someone came to me and said, here is

0:56:240:56:28

something different, that's the key

thing. I was so fortunate to be

0:56:280:56:41

given the formats. I was a great, I

wasn't in the class of Ronnie or Ken

0:56:410:56:48

Dodd, I had great teams and great

formats. I don't miss it.

I'm not

0:56:480:56:53

sure I believe you. But thank you

for coming on the programme.

But I

0:56:530:56:58

lie to you?

I don't know, but thank

you for coming on.

0:56:580:57:06

Good morning. What a day today, much

better across England and Wells

0:57:060:57:13

compared to yesterday and some of

you seen big prisons, the skies

0:57:130:57:16

overhead in Cornwall. -- England and

Wales and some of you have seen big

0:57:160:57:21

changes. Blue skies overhead in

Cornwall. But there have been

0:57:210:57:27

periods of rain, in the Wirral, for

example. There is a weak weather

0:57:270:57:33

front pushing across western areas

from west to east, but you can see a

0:57:330:57:38

swirl of cloud which board the cloud

and rain yesterday that is moving

0:57:380:57:44

towards northern Europe. Sunny

conditions continue to work their

0:57:440:57:48

way eastwards but we have got a line

of showers north-west England to the

0:57:480:57:53

Midlands, which will stretch towards

the south-east in the afternoon.

0:57:530:57:56

Eastern counties and the far north

of Scotland will see showers but

0:57:560:58:02

most places seeing good sunny

spells. Winds are light,

0:58:020:58:06

strengthening much sunshine, it will

feel quite pleasant. Up the little

0:58:060:58:12

bit on what we would normally expect

at this time of year. One or two

0:58:120:58:17

showers towards the south-east

corner, but certainly if you are

0:58:170:58:20

heading off to Cheltenham for the

first day of the festival, you could

0:58:200:58:23

not have picked a better day. The

winds are light, the ground is soft

0:58:230:58:28

underfoot, but sunny conditions to

see the day. Clear whether across

0:58:280:58:33

central and eastern parts, we could

get down to -1 in Newcastle, but

0:58:330:58:41

further west, more cloud and a

strengthening breeze. Belfast and

0:58:410:58:45

Plymouth, six or seven into the

morning. The rain and drizzle art

0:58:450:58:49

links to this low pressure to the

west of us as we start tomorrow, the

0:58:490:58:56

weather front will get close to us

and it will drag up some mild air

0:58:560:59:00

coming up from the south on strong

to gale force south to

0:59:000:59:05

south-easterly winds. The wind is

strongest across the south and West,

0:59:050:59:09

outbreaks of rain which will turn

persistent across Ireland, West and

0:59:090:59:13

Wales and Cornwall later on.

Occasional rain in western Scotland

0:59:130:59:17

but dry for a lot of time across

Scotland, eastern Wales and England.

0:59:170:59:24

Hazy sunshine in eastern areas and

we could get to 15 degrees in the

0:59:240:59:27

south-east. Wednesday night, the

cloud and rain pushes across other

0:59:270:59:32

parts of Wales and southern England,

heavy bursts to take us into

0:59:320:59:35

Thursday morning. Doesn't make too

much in the way of inroads further

0:59:350:59:40

north before the area of low

pressure gets shoved back into the

0:59:400:59:43

Atlantic as high-pressure built

across South -- Scandinavia, cold

0:59:430:59:51

air on its way back. Cold and windy

with the increasing chance of some

0:59:510:59:56

snow showers as well. We will keep

you updated.

0:59:560:59:59

Good morning, it is Victoria Park

Russia, welcome to our programme.

1:00:031:00:09

Our top story today...

1:00:091:00:10

How do you deal with Russia?

1:00:101:00:12

Moscow has until the end of the day

to explain why a Russian-made

1:00:121:00:16

nerve agent was used to poison

a former spy and his daughter.

1:00:161:00:18

Should there be no credible

response, we will conclude that this

1:00:181:00:21

action amounts to an unlawful use

of force by the Russian state

1:00:211:00:24

against the United Kingdom

and we will not tolerate such

1:00:241:00:26

a brazen attempt to murder innocent

civilians on our soil.

1:00:261:00:33

As the pressure mounts

for Russia to respond,

1:00:331:00:36

we'll discuss the growing calls

for England to boycott

1:00:361:00:37

the World Cup.

1:00:371:00:45

Permit will call for a national

enquiry into the abuse scandal in

1:00:471:00:51

Telford. -- Parliament will call.

1:00:511:00:53

I'd be being sold maybe two or three

times a night, to the people who

1:00:531:00:57

would pay for the girls in Telford.

1:00:571:00:59

Men of every race,

religion coming in there

1:00:591:01:00

and wanting to pay for girls.

1:01:001:01:05

We'll also get reaction

from a senior lawyer who played

1:01:051:01:08

a key role in the Rochdale

and Rotherham abuse scandals,

1:01:081:01:10

and from a group set up to tackle

sexual grooming in the UK.

1:01:101:01:13

And one of the biggest names

in British TV, Noel Edmonds,

1:01:131:01:16

tells us why he's trying to sue

Lloyds Banking Group

1:01:161:01:18

for over £60 million.

1:01:181:01:25

It was an incredibly stressful time.

That is a real understatement. Yes,

1:01:251:01:29

I tried to take my life.

1:01:291:01:32

Good morning. Here is the latest

news.

1:01:391:01:42

The Cabinet is meeting about now

to discuss the midnight deadline

1:01:421:01:45

for the Kremlin to explain

how a nerve agent,

1:01:451:01:47

developed in the Soviet Union,

was used to attack a former

1:01:471:01:50

Russian spy in Salisbury.

1:01:501:01:53

Is the UK preparing to strike hard

against Russia?

Boris Johnson has

1:01:581:02:03

said if Russia cannot come up with a

convincing explanation of why the

1:02:031:02:07

nerve agent was used in Salisbury,

the Government will be announcing

1:02:071:02:11

the UK's response tomorrow. Mr

Johnson said he was encouraged by

1:02:111:02:15

the report that Britain has received

from his French, German and American

1:02:151:02:19

counterparts.

I've been very

encouraged so far by the strength of

1:02:191:02:24

the support we are getting. I think

in particular from President Macron

1:02:241:02:29

of France, and my German

counterpart, and from Washington.

1:02:291:02:35

Rex Tillerson last night made it

absolutely clear that he sees this

1:02:351:02:41

as part of the pattern of disruptive

behaviour, increasingly destructive

1:02:411:02:46

and malign behaviour by Russia. The

reckless use of chemical weapons and

1:02:461:02:52

support for the reckless use of

chemical weapons that stretches from

1:02:521:02:55

Syria now to the streets of

Salisbury. And I've been encouraged

1:02:551:03:02

by the willingness of our friends to

show support and solidarity.

1:03:021:03:08

More details are beginning to emerge

of the allegations of abuse over

1:03:081:03:11

four decades against girls

in the Shropshire town of Telford.

1:03:111:03:14

Up to a thousand girls are reported

to have been groomed and exploited -

1:03:141:03:17

with some as young as 11

being drugged and raped.

1:03:171:03:22

One victim, who was 14 when the

abuse began, spoke anonymously to

1:03:221:03:27

reveal she was repeatedly raped and

sold between men and that her family

1:03:271:03:30

were threatened if she refused to

comply.

1:03:301:03:36

I was gang-raped just after I turned

16. That is probably the worst thing

1:03:361:03:41

that ever happened.

1:03:411:03:46

that ever happened. Sorry...

You

don't need to apologise.

And after

1:03:461:03:49

that, I tried to commit suicide. I

genuinely wanted to die because I

1:03:491:03:57

thought that was the only way out.

1:03:571:04:00

The Chancellor, Philip Hammond,

is expected to deliver some positive

1:04:001:04:03

economic news in his first ever

Spring Statement today.

1:04:031:04:06

The statement, which replaces

the Spring Budget, will include

1:04:061:04:09

the latest official economic figures

but it will not impose new taxes.

1:04:091:04:13

Labour ministers say Mr Hammond must

take the chance to end austerity.

1:04:131:04:19

The European Parliament meets

in Strasbourg later to debate

1:04:191:04:22

the EU's guidelines on Brexit.

1:04:221:04:24

After a speech from the European

Commission President,

1:04:241:04:26

Jean-Claude Juncker,

MEPs will discuss the guidelines,

1:04:261:04:30

as well as their own resolution,

which outlines the parliament's

1:04:301:04:32

priorities and so-called "red lines"

for the Brexit negotiations.

1:04:321:04:40

Salt content in takeaway dishes must

be urgently reduced in a bid

1:04:421:04:45

to tackle strokes and heart disease,

campaigners have warned.

1:04:451:04:48

A study by Action on Salt found some

Chinese meals including sides

1:04:481:04:52

like prawn crackers contain

more than double

1:04:521:04:54

the recommended daily intake.

1:04:541:04:57

The survey also revealed a selection

of ready meals were high in salt.

1:04:571:05:03

That's a summary of

the latest BBC News.

1:05:031:05:05

I'll have more at 10:30.

1:05:051:05:11

Thank you, if you are getting in

touch, you are very welcome.

1:05:111:05:18

Let me read you some messages from

you about knowledge plans. Luis

1:05:181:05:25

says, Noel Edmonds is infuriating

me. I am a cancer nurse. How

1:05:251:05:29

insulting is his attitude with

regards to positive attitude and

1:05:291:05:33

cancer? Heather says, I'm disgusted

by the way Victoria dealt with Noel

1:05:331:05:38

Edmonds, came across as rude and

unprofessional. I've never

1:05:381:05:41

experienced anything quite like it.

Another tweet from Phil, it is not a

1:05:411:05:45

fact that negative energy causes

disease. Negative energy is not

1:05:451:05:50

itself a scientific fact. Sue says

Noel Edmonds is being offensive on

1:05:501:05:54

cancer. To suggest that someone's

attitude is causing damage to them

1:05:541:06:00

is infuriating. Dave says I'm

surprised than disappointing at your

1:06:001:06:03

hostile tone of questioning. You

seemed to be showing your own

1:06:031:06:07

prejudices as regards his cancer

treatment. Boris Zazai hole at -- I

1:06:071:06:14

wholeheartedly support his assertion

that the positive attitude

1:06:141:06:18

contributes. Hypnotherapy steered me

in the right direction. Thank you

1:06:181:06:21

for that, do keep them coming in.

Right, the sport now and Will back.

1:06:211:06:32

Britain's Menna Fitzpatrick

and guide Jen Kehoe have won silver

1:06:321:06:34

at the Winter Paralympics this

morning in the women's visually

1:06:341:06:36

impaired super combined event.

1:06:361:06:37

The pair were second

after the super-G run

1:06:371:06:39

and despite an impressive slalom

effort, they were unable to get

1:06:391:06:42

the better of the Slovakians.

1:06:421:06:43

Fitzpatrick is just 19,

she was born no vision in her left

1:06:431:06:46

eye and limited sight in her right,

but started skiing aged five.

1:06:461:06:49

They only started working together

in 2015 and have built up

1:06:491:06:52

a solid partnership.

1:06:521:06:53

Fellow Briton Millie Knight missed

out on a third straight

1:06:531:06:55

medal with Brett Wild,

they were fourth after

1:06:551:06:57

a disappointing slalom.

1:06:571:07:04

Two goals from David Silva

helps Manchester City

1:07:041:07:06

to a 2-0 win at Stoke.

1:07:061:07:07

Pep Guardiola's side now

have a 16 point lead.

1:07:071:07:09

City need just two more

wins for their third

1:07:091:07:11

Premier League title.

1:07:111:07:13

If they beat Everton

at Goodison Park later this month,

1:07:131:07:16

they could seal the title

on derby day with a win over

1:07:161:07:18

rivals Manchester United

on the 7th of April.

1:07:181:07:21

City Captain Vincent Kompany

says it's

1:07:211:07:22

"a once in a lifetime opportunity".

1:07:221:07:25

Stoke remain a point from safety

with eight games to go.

1:07:251:07:33

The Cheltenham Festival gets under

way this afternoon, more than a

1:07:371:07:40

quarter of a million spectators are

expected over from her days with

1:07:401:07:44

bookmakers estimating after £350

million will be wagered. The Nicky

1:07:441:07:48

Henderson trained horse will attempt

to defend his title in the feature

1:07:481:07:53

race. I will have the headlines at

half-past.

1:07:531:07:57

Telford is a large picturesque town

in the West Midlands with

1:07:571:08:00

a population of 170,000 people.

1:08:001:08:03

But over a 40 year period it's been

estimated that up to 1,000

1:08:031:08:07

girls were abused by gangs

of British Pakistani

1:08:071:08:09

and Bangladeshi men.

1:08:091:08:17

So far, only seven of them

have been convicted.

1:08:171:08:19

Now there are calls for a public

inquiry into how the abuse

1:08:191:08:22

went on for so long

and whether authorities

1:08:221:08:23

were too politically correct

to properly address it.

1:08:231:08:25

Holly Archer was abused

from the age of 13,

1:08:251:08:28

raped countless times,

and sometimes forced to sleep

1:08:281:08:31

with several men a night.

1:08:311:08:35

She told us the impact

it had on her.

1:08:351:08:41

It quickly moved on to being sold,

every single day. So, being sold two

1:08:411:08:52

or three times a night.

1:08:521:08:58

or three times a night. Taken to the

thing I can only describe as a rape

1:08:581:09:01

house, which was set up for the

purpose of young girls being sold to

1:09:011:09:04

men

1:09:041:09:10

men will. It wasn't just Pakistani

men, there were men of every race,

1:09:101:09:21

religion, coming in and wanting to

pay for girls.

How did you cope with

1:09:211:09:27

this?

I can't really explain it. It

was like I was living in a bubble. I

1:09:271:09:36

had no feelings about anything. All

I wanted to do was make my family

1:09:361:09:45

proud of me. So I continued going to

school, did my best, everything I

1:09:451:09:52

could do to try and make something

good bit for my family, because the

1:09:521:09:58

reason I kept going back was they

were threatening me with burning my

1:09:581:10:01

house down, which was a real threat

in Telford because that had actually

1:10:011:10:04

happened to revisit. They would say

to me they would rape my mother and

1:10:041:10:09

sisters. They knew all about my

family. There was just no escape at

1:10:091:10:17

all.

1:10:171:10:19

With us now is senior lawyer

Nazir Afzal, who specialises

1:10:191:10:21

in child sexual exploitation

and played a key role

1:10:211:10:23

in the Rochdale and

Rotherham abuse scandals.

1:10:231:10:25

Also Ansar Ali, spokesperson

for Together Against Grooming.

1:10:251:10:28

An organisation set up to tackle

sexual grooming in the UK

1:10:281:10:31

including working with mosques

and Islamic centres.

1:10:311:10:38

Welcome, both of you. How do you

respond to what is being uncovered

1:10:381:10:45

in Telford?

It's no surprise. I

prosecuted the Rochdale case seven

1:10:451:10:50

years ago now, and I said then this

was the tip of the iceberg, there

1:10:501:10:56

were part of this country for this

type of sexual abuse was taking

1:10:561:11:01

place, the 30s have not recognised

it, they lifted the stone then they

1:11:011:11:06

would see it. -- the authorities is.

I prosecuted the Telford original

1:11:061:11:12

prosecution and I knew that this was

a bigger issue not just in Telford

1:11:121:11:16

but everywhere. But I still see

stories like that of Holly, she has

1:11:161:11:23

not been listened to or believed,

the abuses have gained dost-mac the

1:11:231:11:29

abuses have almost acted with

impunity because they know the

1:11:291:11:31

authorities will not do anything

about it. She is one of probably

1:11:311:11:35

thousands of young girls and Young

Boys who are being abused in street

1:11:351:11:39

grooming up-and-under country, and I

am pretty sure Robbie you look, you

1:11:391:11:45

will find this.

You mean in every

town and city across the country?

1:11:451:11:49

Every town and city. There was a

report which went as far as saying

1:11:491:11:55

even every hamlet. But certainly

anywhere where you find groups of

1:11:551:12:03

men, you will find prejudices

amongst them, they will abuse

1:12:031:12:07

children.

But you would like to

think, would you not, from what we

1:12:071:12:10

have learned from previous scandals,

the authorities and the police,

1:12:101:12:16

social workers, medical

professionals, which treat those who

1:12:161:12:18

are being exploited as victims now?

You would hope so. The levels of

1:12:181:12:24

training and expertise have

improved. But you always hear in

1:12:241:12:28

every serious case review, lessons

have to be learned. Because people

1:12:281:12:32

don't get it right first time. It

comes down to confidence. These are

1:12:321:12:36

difficult cases to prosecute and

investigate, absolutely. But I think

1:12:361:12:40

the lawyers and skills or there: but

are not being utilised. It is also

1:12:401:12:44

an impartial posterity, but we've

lost some expertise and specialism

1:12:441:12:48

in an area where we need expertise

and specialism. But ultimately we

1:12:481:12:53

need empathy. We need to understand

these victims need something more

1:12:531:12:56

than most victims, and they are not

being given it.

We've been told in

1:12:561:13:01

the case of Telford that is not just

white girls that were being

1:13:011:13:05

exploited, but Asian young girls

too. Have you heard the same

1:13:051:13:11

exploited, but Asian young girls

too. Have you heard the same?

Not

1:13:111:13:12

only have I heard that, not on is

the anecdotal evidence, but

1:13:121:13:17

actually, the most thorough

examination, the recent study of

1:13:171:13:21

this issue was done by the office of

the Children's Commissioner, and

1:13:211:13:26

that researched it back to 2013.

That research, it said about a third

1:13:261:13:33

of the victims were from a non-white

background, black and minority

1:13:331:13:37

ethnic background. Going back to

2013, when the Home Affairs

1:13:371:13:43

Committee was taking evidence on

this issue on one of the conclusions

1:13:431:13:45

was that whilst official statistics,

the proportion of the can to come

1:13:451:13:51

from a non-white background is low,

when they actually went out to the

1:13:511:13:56

towns and cities and the agencies

dealing with these issues on the

1:13:561:13:59

ground, they got a totally different

picture. So although the official

1:13:591:14:04

statistics say the number of victims

were goals but winner unofficially

1:14:041:14:11

from anecdotal evidence and by

research the road reality is

1:14:111:14:13

different.

Sorry, let me ask you,

why have some Asian exploited and

1:14:131:14:20

abused young girls?

That is

configured to question. I think a

1:14:201:14:26

lot of these cases -- a complicated

question, what you find is that

1:14:261:14:32

there are links between these gangs

who are involved in grooming young

1:14:321:14:39

girls, and in crime. They have all

been in criminal activity, they are

1:14:391:14:44

involved in drugs, and they see this

as a diversification of their

1:14:441:14:49

activity. These gangs operate, they

are not what you call classic,

1:14:491:14:55

typical paedophiles. That is not

their kind of motivation. Yes, they

1:14:551:15:00

are sexual predators but I think

it's more that they use these girls

1:15:001:15:05

as a sexual commodity and it's about

making money from them.

Is there any

1:15:051:15:10

link to their heritage or are they

just criminals?

I don't think there

1:15:101:15:14

is a link to their heritage, because

most people from the background do

1:15:141:15:20

not commit these sort of acts. The

vast majority find their actions

1:15:201:15:26

reprehensible, from all communities

including the community from which

1:15:261:15:28

they originate. So I don't think

that is the cause.

1:15:281:15:36

A statement from the Home Office has

cold the child sexual exploitation

1:15:361:15:39

and national black, would you agree?

1:15:391:15:42

-- a statement from the Home Office

has called child sexual excitation

1:15:461:15:51

and national threat, would you

agree?

Yes, we have two agree. We

1:15:511:15:56

have had a number of studies in

places like Oxford and Rotherham but

1:15:561:16:00

the lessons are not being learned on

a national basis. That's what we

1:16:001:16:04

need to do, a and nationwide

response.

Thank you very much, both

1:16:041:16:13

of you.

1:16:131:16:18

of you. Thank keep your messages as

well. Many of you want to comment on

1:16:181:16:21

the young woman we spoke to at the

beginning of our programme called

1:16:211:16:25

Holly. We spoke to her anonymously,

she did not wish to show her face,

1:16:251:16:30

she was talking about the abuse and

exploitation she experienced in

1:16:301:16:33

Telford as a teenager, beginning

from the age of 14. Adam says, my

1:16:331:16:37

heart goes out to the brave young

lady who spoke on her programme

1:16:371:16:40

today. I am ashamed disgusted again

of another sex scandal involving

1:16:401:16:45

thousands of victims involving

Pakistani men, I'm a bachelor of 50

1:16:451:16:53

years, British-born Pakistani and

once again I am wary of stepping

1:16:531:16:58

outside my house, what people may

think of me. This one says, how can

1:16:581:17:05

this have happened, no one asked her

about her abortions? Amanda says,

1:17:051:17:09

how brave of this young woman to

speak up, Theresa May you need to

1:17:091:17:13

speak up now. There needs to be an

inquiry, this one says, and this one

1:17:131:17:20

says, these are crimes, need to be

treated as such. Do the police need

1:17:201:17:24

nor resources? Would rather we had a

change of the law to make enablers

1:17:241:17:32

as guilty as perpetrators, I am

tired of men behaving like this.

1:17:321:17:39

The Conservative Chancellor, Philip

Hammond, will give his verdict

1:17:391:17:41

on the nation's financial health

in a couple of hours' time.

1:17:411:17:43

It's known as the Spring Statement.

1:17:431:17:45

We're expected to see "light

at the end of the tunnel"

1:17:451:17:48

on the amount of money the UK

is in debt, but it won't be

1:17:481:17:51

the end of austerity.

1:17:511:17:52

Our political guru Norman Smith

is in Westminster.

1:17:521:17:54

It's been eight years now

of austerity, just remind

1:17:541:17:56

us where we're up to.

1:17:561:17:59

Today is normally a big bananas day

at Westminster, you look at

1:17:591:18:03

previously Chancellor Gordon Brown

and George Osborne, it used to be a

1:18:031:18:08

mini budget, packed with tax

announcement and spending

1:18:081:18:11

commitments. Not so this time. It

could be a bit of a damp squib. Who

1:18:111:18:16

says so? The Chancellor, Philip

Hammond, has already announced he is

1:18:161:18:21

not being to making any big tax

giveaway announcements, there are

1:18:211:18:25

knocking to be any spending

commitments, he will not have a red

1:18:251:18:28

box. There will not be a drum roll

before he gets up to deliver his

1:18:281:18:33

statement, which has worked a number

of people because for the first time

1:18:331:18:37

in a long time we have a budget

surplus. That is to say, each month

1:18:371:18:42

we get more cash in in taxes that we

pay out in various government

1:18:421:18:46

expenditure. You have to go back

until 2001, the last time we had a

1:18:461:18:51

budget surplus. That has fuelled

calls for an end to austerity. And

1:18:511:18:59

end to the squeeze on public sector

pay, trying to find more cash for

1:18:591:19:05

social care and hospitals. Will the

Chancellor end austerity? Almost

1:19:051:19:09

certainly not. That's not just

because he thinks today is not the

1:19:091:19:15

moment to do it, today is just

reporting on the state of the

1:19:151:19:17

economy. But also because of our

level of debt. Now, debt is all the

1:19:171:19:27

bills we have accrued over previous

decades for paying for everything

1:19:271:19:32

from wars to hospitals to schools,

you name it, and we have a humongous

1:19:321:19:36

pile of debt. That's the O2 -- which

we owe to banks and financial

1:19:361:19:44

institutions. We

1:19:441:19:51

institutions. We have £1.74

trillion, trillion, not billion.

1:19:511:19:53

That is the amount of money at ten

which we owe. -- outstanding which

1:19:531:19:59

we owe. That's the equivalent of

64,000 pounds for every household in

1:19:591:20:06

the country. Put it another way, if

you look at the amount of money the

1:20:061:20:12

UK generates, the percentage of that

which is debt is 84%. That is a huge

1:20:121:20:20

amount, and many economists think

it's far too big and the danger is

1:20:201:20:24

if you get into another economic

downturn, that could creep up even

1:20:241:20:28

higher. The fear is eventually the

banks say, we are going to stop

1:20:281:20:32

lending you money because you never

pay it back. There's a second reason

1:20:321:20:36

why Mr Hammond is not inclined to

end austerity and that the deficit.

1:20:361:20:41

That's the amount we spend above

what we get in on a yearly basis,

1:20:411:20:47

that includes the amount we owe on

debt interest and we are still

1:20:471:20:51

expected to owe around £40 billion.

However, there is a plus to this and

1:20:511:20:57

that is, over the past couple of

months, the government has been in

1:20:571:21:00

surplus. We have been getting more

taxes in than we been putting money

1:21:001:21:04

out. So there is enough tax to cover

the government's daily costs. And I

1:21:041:21:11

think what you'll hear from Mr

Hammond today is a slightly more

1:21:111:21:16

optimistic economic picture. So

we'll talk about the fact that the

1:21:161:21:19

government has now got enough taxes

to cover daily costs, he'll will

1:21:191:21:25

talk about the fact that growth

might be revised up a little bit,

1:21:251:21:30

productivity beginning to nudge

upwards. But end of austerity, don't

1:21:301:21:33

hold your breath. The Chancellor has

talked about light at the end of the

1:21:331:21:39

tunnel but this is the economic

equivalent of the Mont blanc tunnel,

1:21:391:21:43

it's going on for a long time and I

think we have got a lot of this

1:21:431:21:47

territory to come. -- a lot of

austerity to come.

1:21:471:21:51

Let's talk now to Labour's Shadow

Treasury Minister MP Annaliese Dodds

1:21:511:21:53

and Conservative MP Andrew Jones

who is the party's vice chair

1:21:531:21:56

for Business and a former

treasury minister.

1:21:561:21:59

Welcome, both of you. The Chancellor

has nearly 4 billion to play with,

1:21:591:22:04

should keep unfreeze the benefits

and put money into part of the NHS

1:22:041:22:11

which crumbling or give councils

more money to social care?

A

1:22:111:22:16

balanced approach.

What does that

mean in real terms?

Still focus on

1:22:161:22:24

reducing debt but invest in public

services. So next year we will see

1:22:241:22:28

the innocent in the health service

go up by £2.5 billion, is --

1:22:281:22:33

investment in the health service,

schools by 1.4 billion, defence 1

1:22:331:22:37

billion, and we will see debt starts

to fall as a percentage of GDP for

1:22:371:22:41

the first time in 17 year.

I can see

you shaking your head in

1:22:411:22:46

disagreement as Andrew Jones is

speaking, why?

This has not been a

1:22:461:22:50

balanced approach. What we've seen

under this government is positioned

1:22:501:22:54

to cut taxes for the very best off

people and corporations, giving away

1:22:541:23:00

70 billion over the course of this

Parliament and where they have paid

1:23:001:23:03

for some of the deficit, it's been

on the backs of public services,

1:23:031:23:07

those nurses who have not seen a pay

increase, teachers, and children's

1:23:071:23:12

services and we are very worried

that a third of children's services

1:23:121:23:16

cannot even fill their legal

responsibilities. This is not

1:23:161:23:21

something that should be said about

it, we're calling for the Chancellor

1:23:211:23:24

to approach a different approach and

reverse those tax cuts which are

1:23:241:23:31

many benefits of the best off,

reverse those and have the funding

1:23:311:23:35

to support our children and

communities.

He will have heard that

1:23:351:23:39

our political editor Laura

Kuenssberg has heard that the

1:23:391:23:43

Cabinet has discussed tax rises to

fund an increase in NHS spending.

1:23:431:23:47

Would that be to replace the Brexit

windfall of 350 million for the NHS?

1:23:471:23:53

I'm not party to cabinet

conversations.

All I can tell you...

1:23:531:23:57

What do you think?

All I can tell

you is we are seeing an increased

1:23:571:24:03

budget in the NHS next year...

You

know it's not enough, not one person

1:24:031:24:07

says it enough who works in the NHS.

Of course our NHS needs more cash,

1:24:071:24:12

because we are seeing greater

amounts of treatments being

1:24:121:24:20

available.

So give them more cash.

We are. The whole point is getting

1:24:201:24:26

the balance right, making sure we

have enough money to invest in

1:24:261:24:28

public services but keeping the

economy strong.

Our economy is

1:24:281:24:33

fundamentally strong. We are the

slowest growing G-7 economies.

If

1:24:331:24:38

you go back to 2010, we have been

one of the fastest-growing.

Right

1:24:381:24:44

now, we are the slowest growing.

You

cannot take one data point, you have

1:24:441:24:47

to go through the biggest picture.

If you go back to 2010, the UK has

1:24:471:24:53

been the fastest-growing or equal

fastest-growing and at the same time

1:24:531:24:56

we have created 3 million jobs and

bridges and employment to an

1:24:561:25:01

all-time low.

The

1:25:011:25:07

all-time low.

The surplus is a good

thing and we would not have that

1:25:071:25:10

without the Conservatives, do you

acknowledge that?

I don't, it has

1:25:101:25:13

taken as much longer to get this a

Nessie had a different approach. The

1:25:131:25:20

government has had to abandon

previous targets for deficit

1:25:201:25:23

elimination and a big reason is

because it has not sorted out the

1:25:231:25:28

long-term problems in the UK economy

which means that we have less tax

1:25:281:25:31

revenue coming in. The office for

budget responsibility, the

1:25:311:25:36

independent watchdog, it revised

down its forecast for the UK's

1:25:361:25:40

economic roast because we have a

huge productivity problem, more of a

1:25:401:25:44

productivity problem than copper

bowl countries in a similar --

1:25:441:25:49

comparable countries in similar

positions. We don't have enough

1:25:491:25:54

investment, lowest public sector and

private sector investment of all can

1:25:541:25:57

parable countries at the moment. We

don't have enough money going into

1:25:571:26:02

education, we will have falling

levels of funding per pupil in

1:26:021:26:06

education for many years for the

first time from this government and

1:26:061:26:11

a cut into further education. This

government has decided it will

1:26:111:26:18

eliminate the deficit, but at the

same time, if tax cuts to the best

1:26:181:26:22

off and that has not worked.

I have

to reject that, can't accept that

1:26:221:26:26

comment.

OK, thank you.

Andrew Jones

and shadow Treasury Minister

1:26:261:26:34

Annelise Dodds.

1:26:341:26:36

Three judges at the High Court will

hear the start of a legal challenge

1:26:361:26:39

today against the Parole Board's

decision to grant the release

1:26:391:26:42

of the serial sex offender,

John Worboys, who police suspect

1:26:421:26:44

attacked more than 100 women.

1:26:441:26:47

The former black cab driver, who's

changed his name to John Radford,

1:26:471:26:50

has spent more than ten

years in prison.

1:26:501:26:52

Lawyers for two of his victims

are expected to argue

1:26:521:26:55

that the Board's decision

was irrational and it should have

1:26:551:27:00

taken a more cautious approach.

1:27:001:27:02

It's the first time a parole board's

decision has been reconsidered

1:27:021:27:04

in a judicial review.

1:27:041:27:07

One of the women involved

in the case, who we called Fiona,

1:27:071:27:10

spoke exclusively with us

earlier this year.

1:27:101:27:13

She told us how she thought

he was a danger to other women

1:27:131:27:16

and she also described

what it was like facing

1:27:161:27:18

Worboys in court as part

of the legal process.

1:27:181:27:21

When he first walked

through the doors,

1:27:211:27:22

I was just struck by,

"Oh, my God, he's pathetic.

1:27:221:27:27

He's a pathetic old man".

1:27:271:27:33

He was all hunched over,

and wringing in his hands.

1:27:331:27:35

He's talking, and he's talking

just above a whisper.

1:27:351:27:37

But a couple of times he looked

at me and I saw his eyes

1:27:371:27:41

and do you know what?

1:27:411:27:42

He hasn't changed one bit,

because every woman that got in that

1:27:421:27:46

cab reported that the reason

they accepted that drink

1:27:461:27:48

was because they felt sorry for him

because he was pathetic.

1:27:481:27:51

It was an act.

1:27:511:27:53

And I do believe him

going into court was still an act

1:27:531:27:56

because I saw his eyes and he's

still capable of what he was doing

1:27:561:28:01

years ago, absolutely still capable.

1:28:011:28:04

And I will keep fighting.

1:28:041:28:09

I will do whatever it takes

to keep him behind bars

1:28:091:28:12

because that is the only way women

will be protected from him,

1:28:121:28:15

is if he's behind bars.

1:28:151:28:16

No licence conditions

can watch him 24/7.

1:28:161:28:19

So you're adamant that he is

still a danger to women?

1:28:191:28:22

As far as I'm concerned,

he is still a danger.

1:28:221:28:24

I'm not worried about what he can do

to me, because there's nothing

1:28:241:28:27

more he can do to me.

1:28:271:28:31

But I don't want to go back to 2003

and watching the news again,

1:28:311:28:36

waiting for him to reoffend,

and I know he will reoffend.

1:28:361:28:39

I don't want to be in that position

again where I say, "I was right -

1:28:391:28:43

I told you he will do this again,"

because he will.

1:28:431:28:46

He will absolutely do

it again and we need

1:28:461:28:48

to protect women from him.

1:28:481:28:51

Let's talk now to Adam Wagner,

who is a human rights

1:28:511:28:54

barrister and has sat

in parole board hearings.

1:28:541:28:57

Sarah Green is co-director

of the lobby group End

1:28:571:28:59

Violence Against Women.

1:28:591:29:03

Ian Lawrence is from NAPO,

the trade union that

1:29:031:29:05

represents probation workers.

1:29:051:29:10

Give our audience and insight into

what it's like those hearings.

A

1:29:111:29:14

parole board hearing is like a court

hearing, it might take place in in a

1:29:141:29:18

prison but you will have, there's

only one question the parole board

1:29:181:29:25

needs to answer, if this person safe

to be released into the public? They

1:29:251:29:28

will have evidence written and oral,

so people there in person, from a

1:29:281:29:38

psychiatrist and a probation

officer, potentially evidence from

1:29:381:29:41

victims, and they will make a

decision based on all that evidence,

1:29:411:29:44

whether this person is safe to be

released or not.

How can you know

1:29:441:29:48

that? They are looking at future

risk, that's difficult to pin down.

1:29:481:29:52

That's the tasks that they have

achieve. And it's a very difficult

1:29:521:30:00

decision. In my experience of the

parole board, one of the surprising

1:30:001:30:03

things about this case, is that they

are incredibly cautious. If there's

1:30:031:30:08

any kind of a hint of a continuing

risk, they tend to release. So I was

1:30:081:30:14

surprised -- they tend to not

release. So I was surprised to hear

1:30:141:30:18

about this.

How important is it we

have tried fancy about the decisions

1:30:181:30:23

of the parole board?

The parole

board needs opening up, it needs

1:30:231:30:29

transparency.

They are following the

law in terms of keeping it secret.

1:30:291:30:32

It would be a law change needed by

MPs.

There has been some thought

1:30:321:30:36

into that

1:30:361:30:41

into that secrecy, so there is not

mob rule saying you should stay in

1:30:421:30:46

prison. So for us that our judgment

around making judgments of risk in

1:30:461:30:54

sexual offenders, because knowledge

of sexual offenders are quite poor.

1:30:541:30:57

They are not researched as a group,

we do not know what drives them and

1:30:571:31:02

the different groups of sex

offenders. So it's difficult to

1:31:021:31:06

properly assess risk of likelihood

of future offending. We do know that

1:31:061:31:15

people who have offended multiple

times, police have said that for

1:31:151:31:18

John Worboys there were more than

100 offences in all likelihood,

1:31:181:31:22

people have held deeply misogynistic

attitude and predatory towards women

1:31:221:31:30

and very capable of lying, he was.

The woman in your clip talked about

1:31:301:31:35

his way of being able to put on a

good act, the trait himself as

1:31:351:31:39

something that he is not.

You

believe that opening up the parole

1:31:391:31:44

board process could lead to trial by

media?

It is a concern, I sympathise

1:31:441:31:49

massively about some of the comments

made about better transparency and

1:31:491:31:54

support for victims, and this thing

is. This is a high profile case,

1:31:541:32:01

understandably, for reasons we know.

There is a concern that the process

1:32:011:32:05

could become flawed if there was a

trial by media element.

It could be

1:32:051:32:10

flawed without transparency? The

system resists, there is a High

1:32:101:32:16

Court. Victims were not consulted,

the head of the parole board said,

1:32:161:32:22

victims can have said in licence

conditions, they can make a written

1:32:221:32:26

statement, attend the start of

hearing to read their statement in

1:32:261:32:30

person or say nothing but in this

case they were not consulted, does

1:32:301:32:33

that seem wrong you?

Those who

signed up to victim support scheme

1:32:331:32:37

should have been consulted and I

believe an independent report said

1:32:371:32:40

it should have happened. People who

were not in the scheme and were not

1:32:401:32:46

notified about the release, that

needs to be looked at. As far as

1:32:461:32:51

under -- I understand it, the

probation ministers have given this

1:32:511:32:58

a clean bill of health.

1:32:581:33:04

a clean bill of health.

In terms of

what happens over the next few

1:33:041:33:08

hours, the lawyers have been told

the reasons, the explanation of the

1:33:081:33:12

parole board's decision in wanting

to release John Worboys. They say

1:33:121:33:17

that strengthens their belief in the

fact that the process went wrong.

I

1:33:171:33:23

think you will find out now because

we are in "But it proves the point

1:33:231:33:27

about openness. We're getting a

sense that how this decision has

1:33:271:33:32

been made. It happens by chance,

they had a very good lawyers, they

1:33:321:33:37

had crowdfunding, it was a very high

profile case. But in the vast

1:33:371:33:42

majority of cases, the victims have

no idea especially victims who have

1:33:421:33:49

been convicted of offences and

potential victims, so I think the

1:33:491:33:53

argument that this should be opened

up is quite strong. I think the

1:33:531:33:57

parole board themselves are

interested as well.

What are the

1:33:571:34:08

most what are the most Draconian

conditions, for someone like his

1:34:081:34:13

crimes, what with that involve, John

Worboys?

That would decide -- depend

1:34:131:34:20

on a number of things.

We think

someone of that character would be

1:34:201:34:29

released into premises,.

1:34:291:34:33

Workers would supervise the client

and my concern is the quality of

1:34:331:34:40

supervision that someone like

Worboys would get, because it has

1:34:401:34:46

been privatised, it is a serious and

stick by government.

Thank you very

1:34:461:34:50

much, all of you. -- I think it is a

serious mistake.

1:34:501:34:54

A sign of our times in 2018

is seeing stories explode on social

1:34:541:34:58

media based on one person's

experience or claim.

1:34:581:34:59

That tweet or post goes viral

but often we don't get to hear

1:34:591:35:03

from both sides which means we don't

always hear the full story.

1:35:031:35:05

This morning we have brought

together both sides of a story

1:35:051:35:08

which went viral yesterday.

1:35:081:35:09

Fatima Rajina tweeted

that she and her friend had been

1:35:091:35:13

turned away from a restaurant

on Mothers' Day

1:35:131:35:18

despite seeing empty tables.

1:35:181:35:19

When minutes later they rang

the restaurant, a table was offered.

1:35:191:35:22

Fatima Rajina and her friend

Nasar Rehman say they were turned

1:35:221:35:25

away because of the

colour of their skin.

1:35:251:35:27

That tweet got thousands of retweets

and as a result they got a flood

1:35:271:35:30

of responses from other people

of colour saying casual racism

1:35:301:35:34

in the restaurant industry

was an every day occurrence.

1:35:341:35:38

Dr Fatima Rajna, an academic,

and her friend Nasar Rehman,

1:35:381:35:40

a management consultant,

agreed to speak to us

1:35:401:35:43

this morning alongside

Alex Scrimgeour, the Chief Executive

1:35:431:35:47

and founder of the Cote restaurant

chain which turned them away.

1:35:471:35:55

It was Sunday brunch, first went to

a cafe across the world -- across

1:35:581:36:01

the road. They had quite a long

queue, and and the guy came and

1:36:011:36:14

showed as Cote. We were ignored for

a while when we went in, and then

1:36:141:36:20

someone just pop out at the site and

it is an

1:36:201:36:31

it is an elevated platform, someone

pot out and looked as and down and

1:36:311:36:34

reservations only.

When was this?

About 12, midday on Mother's Day. We

1:36:341:36:41

were standing there for a few

minutes, there were quite a few

1:36:411:36:45

empty tables. Mother's Day, it tends

to be big groups.

It doesn't mean

1:36:451:36:51

those tables weren't booked.

There

were tables are the front that were

1:36:511:36:55

empty.

1:36:551:37:01

We then left. We were having a

disagreement between ourselves. We

1:37:031:37:13

call the number, then. We rang the

restaurant. And I said, have you got

1:37:131:37:19

the restaurant? And I said I'm

calling, it is Mother's Day, and I

1:37:191:37:26

have call with my mother. And it was

the lady that was serving while we

1:37:261:37:32

were standing there. She turns round

and goes, we haven't -- we have got

1:37:321:37:37

a table ready in 30 minutes.

By that

time it would have been about half

1:37:371:37:42

past 12?

A couple of hours after we

left and we were walking back to the

1:37:421:37:48

car. I was a bit shocked.

1:37:481:37:54

car. I was a bit shocked. I said,

why didn't you check the list? Not

1:37:541:37:59

any let me check for you or anything

like that. I wasn't offered a table.

1:37:591:38:06

Why was that? Chose a bit hesitant.

I could not see any reason why I was

1:38:061:38:17

not given the table. She didn't say

let me check the actual booking. And

1:38:171:38:22

it was early on Mother's Day that

they had the booking system. So it

1:38:221:38:25

was a bit strange, really.

When we

initially walked in, we were both

1:38:251:38:32

aware that it was Mother's Day so we

knew that it would be busy. They had

1:38:321:38:38

seats, tables free, outside. Inside,

it wasn't particularly busy. When we

1:38:381:38:46

walked out I just instantly got this

gut feeling. And I said, I think

1:38:461:38:51

there is more to the story. So we

will make this phone call and put it

1:38:511:38:55

to the test. And he did put on an

accent to make himself sound like he

1:38:551:38:59

was a white man making a phone call.

And we got offered a table within 15

1:38:591:39:03

minutes. And when he switched back

to his normal accent by addressing

1:39:031:39:08

her, saying, why wasn't this offer

to us when we walked in a few minute

1:39:081:39:12

ago, that is when she got really

flustered and offered as the table

1:39:121:39:15

straightaway. That can burn my

initial doubts about what I thought

1:39:151:39:19

about -- that confirmed my initial

doubts.

That you were turned away

1:39:191:39:26

because of the colour of your skin?

Yes. We were like, as soon as she

1:39:261:39:32

offered as a table in 15 minutes, it

was, like, wow.

She got very

1:39:321:39:40

flustered after we addressed.

If it

was because of a racist member of

1:39:401:39:44

staff, how does that make you feel?

I rang up the head office before

1:39:441:39:50

this was all arranged and said have

someone call me. So it made me think

1:39:501:39:56

that was being done by the booking

system, we were told three or four

1:39:561:40:01

different stories, so it is, like,

what is the truth?

Here is the chief

1:40:011:40:09

Executive, Alex Skriniar. Why were

they turned away?

First of all I am

1:40:091:40:15

terribly sad and disappointed that

you were turned away from one of our

1:40:151:40:18

restaurants feeling that there was

some act of racist prejudice against

1:40:181:40:22

yourselves. That is my first thing

that I would like to state.

1:40:221:40:31

that I would like to state. There

are a few salient facts that I just

1:40:311:40:34

need to put across, it is a matter

that is under investigation in our

1:40:341:40:41

restaurants right now. Mother's Day,

as you have already mentioned, in

1:40:411:40:46

fact it was our busiest of a day in

our restaurants, and we had 60

1:40:461:40:53

people who came to the door. And

people were turned away throughout

1:40:531:40:58

the day of Mother's Day. We were

incredibly busy that day. The phone

1:40:581:41:03

call that you refer to, we do not

have a telephone receptionist in our

1:41:031:41:12

restaurant. It is off-site. So, you

called and off-site reservations

1:41:121:41:17

team. And they had different access

to the restaurant manager so the

1:41:171:41:25

restaurant manager, it is an

incredibly busy day, it is hard to

1:41:251:41:28

manage. He's conscious of freeing up

tables to time. We do everything

1:41:281:41:35

that we can to try and make

reservations. My only conclusion can

1:41:351:41:40

be that there has been some sort of

mix-up with the reservations team. I

1:41:401:41:46

am incredibly sad and disappointed

that you feel that you were turned

1:41:461:41:49

away based on your appearance.

Why

were they turned away?

Because the

1:41:491:41:54

manager felt he didn't have enough

space to take them as guests at the

1:41:541:41:58

time. It is still a matter that is

under investigation. As a business,

1:41:581:42:07

we employ over 3000 people. And we

represent over 120 different

1:42:071:42:11

nationalities. So we are very proud

of reputation as an equal

1:42:111:42:19

opportunities employer. This is an

unusual thing to hear, and something

1:42:191:42:23

we take very seriously. You have my

word that we will be investigating

1:42:231:42:29

your allegation fully and we will

come back to you.

Who have already

1:42:291:42:34

said that you are sorry for

something, and that the restaurant

1:42:341:42:37

was fully booked anyway. So what is

it that you're investigating?

I am

1:42:371:42:41

not sorry for act of racism because

we have not established that. If you

1:42:411:42:48

left our business feeling that you

had been in some way prejudiced

1:42:481:42:52

against all there was some act of

racism, I am not saying

1:42:521:42:56

categorically if there was or wasn't

any act of racism, it is an ongoing

1:42:561:43:01

investigation and I feel very

strongly that, before we are

1:43:011:43:06

accused, tried and convicted on

social media that has ensued, I

1:43:061:43:10

think it is only fair to the team in

the restaurant and to the person and

1:43:101:43:14

placed that we actually, that all

the facts are represented and it is

1:43:141:43:22

not a one-sided affair. I disagree

with the reservations team being

1:43:221:43:28

off-site. It was the lady that I

heard. It is local to will and

1:43:281:43:35

garden. It was diverted to our call

centre. We have a very ethnically

1:43:351:43:42

diverse team in Charlotte Street.

And I can absolutely guarantee you

1:43:421:43:45

that they did not give any

preferential treatment to anyone who

1:43:451:43:50

speaks in either a posh accent or,

as you say, trying to pretend that

1:43:501:43:54

you're something else. So I can

absolutely guarantee you and I will

1:43:541:43:58

be happy to show you personally the

reservation system, if you want. I

1:43:581:44:02

can show you, first-hand.

Just

because your team is diverse doesn't

1:44:021:44:09

mean that one cannot experience

racism from the organisation. So,

1:44:091:44:13

emphasising that you have a diverse

team I don't think is sufficient in

1:44:131:44:16

this case.

What I am emphasising is

that people are innocent until

1:44:161:44:22

proven guilty and we are taking this

matter extremely seriously. It was

1:44:221:44:27

something that

1:44:271:44:33

something that happened 36 hours

ago. I became aware of the situation

1:44:331:44:35

less than 24 hours ago. And I'm

sitting on national television

1:44:351:44:37

giving you my commitment of how

seriously we are taking the

1:44:371:44:40

situation. And if there is any act

of racism you have my word that we

1:44:401:44:46

will act to the full extent we can.

Nil we have been given conflicting

1:44:461:44:53

reports. One was that it was the

booking system, wonders that we are

1:44:531:44:56

one was that we were dissatisfied

with our service and we had gone

1:44:561:45:01

away like that.

Which one was it?

We

are putting across our position. We

1:45:011:45:11

are genuinely sorry that anyone

would walk away feeling unhappy from

1:45:111:45:14

one of our restaurants. We are

investigating the accusations that

1:45:141:45:19

you have made. You need to speak to

the team and the restaurant and make

1:45:191:45:24

sure that we speak to the

individuals concerned and then we

1:45:241:45:28

can come back with a conclusion.

How

would you measure whether it was

1:45:281:45:33

racist or not? What would be the

parameters?

We would be looking at

1:45:331:45:37

the reservations and investigating.

There is no way as far as you're

1:45:371:45:45

concerned that the woman in a

restaurant you saw, that it was the

1:45:451:45:50

same person?

I'm absolutely certain

that it was not the same person who

1:45:501:45:53

was in charge. It was in Welwyn

Garden City. So categorically, and

1:45:531:46:00

we will investigate the number of

bookings at tables on the day and

1:46:001:46:04

the CCT -- CCTV images of the day. I

have seen a number of guests turned

1:46:041:46:08

away. Not counting exact numbers but

it looks like it has been around 60

1:46:081:46:13

people turned away during the day at

our restaurant in Welwyn Garden

1:46:131:46:16

City.

1:46:161:46:20

What added to the conversation was

the phone conversation when we

1:46:201:46:24

sounded a particular way, we were

offered a table in 15 minutes, if

1:46:241:46:29

that was available, why will we --

why were they making a stand that?

1:46:291:46:37

And then when he switched back to

his normal accident, it was another

1:46:371:46:43

table as soon as possible. It is

about how we sounded different.

I do

1:46:431:46:49

think you're making very big

accusations here. I need to

1:46:491:46:52

investigate fully. Our reservations

teams, the people who you spoke to,

1:46:521:46:58

not the people in the restaurant,

are well trained.

I appreciate that,

1:46:581:47:02

however...

I can assure you that

they do not treat people differently

1:47:021:47:08

based on how they speak on the

phone.

Lots of people got in touch

1:47:081:47:12

with you, talking about is similar

kind of experiences, including, for

1:47:121:47:18

example, black people who said they

were asked to pay the bill before

1:47:181:47:21

they sat down and ate their meal.

Tell us how you felt about the kind

1:47:211:47:26

of, in a different restaurant, but

tell us how you felt about the

1:47:261:47:30

anecdote he received from people.

--

anecdotes you received. The tweets

1:47:301:47:38

that we put out, we heard from

African-American people from across

1:47:381:47:43

the pond of being rejected at

restaurants, one comedian said she

1:47:431:47:50

once tried to hire some cycles and

was rejected and how white cousin

1:47:501:47:58

went in and got the cycles

immediately. Another young lady said

1:47:581:48:02

they had to pay before they were

eating but a white family did not

1:48:021:48:10

have to do the same. And she called

up using what I call a white

1:48:101:48:14

accident and they said, of course

not, you do not have to take -- a

1:48:141:48:18

white accent. And they said, of

course you do not have to pay before

1:48:181:48:22

you eat. This is not an isolated

incident, it's part of greater

1:48:221:48:26

picture in Britain where we are very

Constable talking about racism,

1:48:261:48:31

basher grow very uncomfortable

talking about racism. This

1:48:311:48:36

personifies where Britain is, they

just do not want to confront where

1:48:361:48:39

they stand where it comes to race

relations.

Can I just add, we have

1:48:391:48:46

been monitoring social media, this

has caused quite a stir. The story

1:48:461:48:53

you are referring to about someone

saying they were asked to prepay in

1:48:531:48:59

one of our restaurants...

It wasn't

in one of your restaurants.

We do

1:48:591:49:05

not have a prepayment policy. I'd

like to go back to the defending

1:49:051:49:10

Cote, our integrity and community

equal opportunities. We are very

1:49:101:49:15

diverse, we don't tolerate any

racism in any form to our guests

1:49:151:49:21

ought

1:49:211:49:25

diverse, we don't tolerate any

racism in any form to our guests or

1:49:251:49:25

the team members.

And when you have

reached the investigation and?

They

1:49:251:49:28

will be the first to know? Of

course.

1:49:281:49:31

Russia has until midnight tonight

to explain how a powerful russian

1:49:311:49:34

nerve agent was used

on British soil.

1:49:341:49:36

The Prime Minister told

the House of Commons,

1:49:361:49:38

"Should there be no credible

response, we will conclude that this

1:49:381:49:40

action amounts to an unlawful use

of force by the Russian state

1:49:401:49:43

against the United Kingdom."

1:49:431:49:44

In the last half hour,

the Russian Foreign minister

1:49:441:49:46

Sergei Lavrov has said Moscow has

requested access to the nerve

1:49:461:49:49

agent used to poison

the former spy Sergei Skripal,

1:49:491:49:51

and his daughter, in Salisbury

describing the allegations

1:49:511:49:54

as "rubbish" and insisting...

1:49:541:49:56

"We have nothing to do with it.

1:49:561:49:58

Russia is not guilty."

1:49:581:49:59

This was President Putin's

response when questioned

1:49:591:50:01

by the BBC yesterday.

1:50:011:50:04

President Putin, BBC News.

1:50:041:50:06

Is Russia behind the poisoning

of Sergei Skripal?

1:50:061:50:09

TRANSLATION:

We're busy

with agriculture here.

1:50:091:50:14

To create good conditions

for people's lives.

1:50:141:50:21

And you talk to me about tragedies.

1:50:211:50:23

First work out what

actually happened there

1:50:231:50:24

and then we'll about it.

1:50:241:50:26

With me is Famil Ismailov,

editor of BBC Russian.

1:50:261:50:29

Bring us right up to date

with all the latest?

1:50:291:50:34

We know that the UK ambassador was

summoned to the Foreign Ministry of

1:50:341:50:39

Russia, and most probably he will be

demanded to give explanations about

1:50:391:50:42

the ultimatum and why as Mr

1:50:421:50:49

the ultimatum and why as Mr Lavrov

said, Britain will not show the

1:50:491:50:52

evidence that links Russia to

surrogate -- to to the case. Russia

1:50:521:51:03

will probably start moving towards

worsening relations with the UK,

1:51:031:51:10

because they will be prepared for

every thing. A spokesperson for the

1:51:101:51:14

Foreign Ministry in Russia you today

called the statement by Theresa May

1:51:141:51:17

a circus show in Parliament. We have

seen a demand from Mr Lavrov, and

1:51:171:51:24

most probably after the summoning of

the ambassador, we will see more

1:51:241:51:28

things from the Russian officials.

We have seen a statement from the

1:51:281:51:32

Russian defence Minister this

morning saying that the chemical

1:51:321:51:35

weapons that Russia had will be

destroyed and they have accounted

1:51:351:51:40

for all the weapons and element of

items that they had.

Thank you very

1:51:401:51:43

much.

Oh, dear.

1:51:431:51:49

We can speak now to Radek Sikorski,

a former Polish foreign minister.

1:51:491:51:55

He has described Russia as an

assassination department. The Prime

1:51:551:52:01

Minister's.

1:52:011:52:01

The Prime Minister's assertion that

Putin is to blame has led to renewed

1:52:041:52:07

calls for England to withdraw

from the World Cup

1:52:071:52:09

in Russia in June.

1:52:091:52:11

Why do you say that Russia is an

assassination department?

To be

1:52:111:52:16

precise, Russia has an assassination

department. They have bumped off

1:52:161:52:19

Chechen need is brush recruit

leaders and

1:52:191:52:31

leaders and previously Mr Litvinenko

and others, they have the means and

1:52:311:52:33

the motive.

The motive is, there is

an election on Sunday?

President

1:52:331:52:40

Putin is fond of showing his

capabilities, whether they are in

1:52:401:52:44

the nuclear field or in Syria, the

missiles, maybe this as well. I also

1:52:441:52:49

think he's testing Britain. The

statement from Sergei Lavrov is

1:52:491:52:54

nothing but contemptuous. And they

know the way to make Mr Putin

1:52:541:53:00

noticed the British response would

be to go after dodgy Russian money

1:53:001:53:07

in London. They are betting that in

anticipation of Brexit and the

1:53:071:53:10

widening of the current account

deficit, Britain wouldn't dare do

1:53:101:53:16

that?

Where would you put your

money?

I think it's an opportunity

1:53:161:53:21

for Theresa May to show leadership

and show that Britain is in the big

1:53:211:53:25

league.

So go after the Russian

money?

Yes, with the support of Nato

1:53:251:53:30

allies and I think we should all

rally round Britain on this issue.

1:53:301:53:33

How do you go after the money, in

practical terms, what does that

1:53:331:53:36

mean?

In force existing legislation.

It

1:53:361:53:43

mean?

In force existing legislation.

-- rubber Rabbi enforcing existing

1:53:431:53:45

legislation against politically

connected people, and investigate

1:53:451:53:50

large amounts of suspect money, to

affect the Russian way of life which

1:53:501:53:54

is to steal money from Russian

people and scroll it away and enjoy

1:53:541:54:00

it in the West, primarily in London.

But that actually hurt President

1:54:001:54:03

Putin, who was a very, very wealthy

man?

The trick would be to go after

1:54:031:54:09

his associates, not the Putin

dissidents. But to craft a political

1:54:091:54:15

response to a political

assassination.

Thank you very much.

1:54:151:54:19

Do you have a view on whether in ten

-- England should boycott the World

1:54:191:54:27

Cup?

I am against boycott, the

Olympic tradition was to suspend

1:54:271:54:30

even wars to have the games. And I

hurts the sports men, -- I think it

1:54:301:54:37

hurts the sports men and there are

different ways to respond to acts of

1:54:371:54:40

terrorism.

1:54:401:54:42

In Oxford, Professor Anthony Glees,

head of the University

1:54:421:54:44

of Buckingham's Centre for Security

and Intelligence Studies.

1:54:441:54:47

He wants England to boycott the

World Cup in June.

1:54:471:54:52

Cup in June.

1:54:521:54:53

And Peter Shilton, England's most

capped player who has played

1:54:531:54:55

in three World Cups.

1:54:551:54:57

What do you think, Peter Shilton? I

don't think we should mix politics

1:54:571:55:01

with sport. What would it achieve if

we did boycott the World Cup? We

1:55:011:55:07

would probably suffer more

ourselves. If we did it on our own,

1:55:071:55:12

the fans would suffer, and the

England team, financially we would

1:55:121:55:17

suffer, the FA would suffer. And

what would it achieve? I think if

1:55:171:55:23

there is a boycott in terms of

sport, it would have to be done by a

1:55:231:55:25

lot of other countries as well. I

don't think we'd achieve anything, I

1:55:251:55:30

think it's very dangerous mixing

sports with politics. Obviously the

1:55:301:55:33

government have to be seen to be

doing something, but I think it's

1:55:331:55:38

basically got to be done as the

previous gentleman said, by

1:55:381:55:42

sanctions, and by hurting Russia in

a different way. I figured we just

1:55:421:55:49

had ourselves. That's what I think

it would just heard ourselves.

So

1:55:491:55:56

what would it achieve if we

boycotted the World Cup?

If it could

1:55:561:56:00

be shown that Russia was behind the

attempted assassination of two

1:56:001:56:04

people in Salisbury, and the

poisoning, perhaps, of 500 British

1:56:041:56:09

people in Salisbury, not to mention

the brave police officer, then not

1:56:091:56:16

to go and play football in Russia

would be the least of the measures

1:56:161:56:20

that we ought to be taking. It would

be a very serious thing if Russia

1:56:201:56:26

could be shown to have been

regarding the United Kingdom's

1:56:261:56:30

territory as a place which it can go

and kill people in. That's a very,

1:56:301:56:35

very serious thing. As for the

argument, keep politics out of

1:56:351:56:41

sport, it's something that we used

to hear when South Africa was a vile

1:56:411:56:45

racist apartheid country, and all

the people who wanted to go and play

1:56:451:56:52

sports said, keep politics out of

sport. It's the other way around.

1:56:521:56:57

The people who are playing politics

with sport, they are countries like

1:56:571:57:00

South Africa, as it used to be, and

Russia today. There's another point

1:57:001:57:05

that needs to be addressed by our

football Association. The Russian

1:57:051:57:12

fans, even before all of this, were

well known for their brutality.

In

1:57:121:57:19

2016 in the Euro cup... That is a

separate issue. And we will talk

1:57:191:57:23

about that no doubt but Peter

Shilton, you were disagreeing with

1:57:231:57:28

much of that? Briefly respond, if

you would.

It's happened before in

1:57:281:57:34

this country. I forgotten the

gentleman's name, forgive me, who

1:57:341:57:40

was poisoned and died and we still

entered the World Cup. What's the

1:57:401:57:44

difference? Why didn't we boycott

the World Cup and not ended? I think

1:57:441:57:49

it's very -- not into it? I think it

would hurt us more than it would

1:57:491:57:53

hurt Russia. Russia are a big

country, we have got to come up with

1:57:531:58:00

some better ideas than not going to

the World Cup and hurting our own

1:58:001:58:03

fans and FA.

Thank you both for coming on the

1:58:031:58:05

programme. Tomorrow morning,

Strictly legend and former head

1:58:051:58:11

judge Len Goodman will be with us.

Have a lovely day, think if your

1:58:111:58:16

company today. -- thank you for your

company.

1:58:161:58:25

Victoria hears from a victim of the abuse scandal in Telford which may have seen almost 1,000 girls groomed. TV star Noel Edmonds explains why he is trying to sue Lloyds Banking Group for over 60 million pounds. And Victoria talks to two people who claim they were rejected from a restaurant because of their race.