Browse content similar to 16/03/2018. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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Hello it's Friday,
it's 9 o'clock, I'm Chloe Tilley, | 0:00:04 | 0:00:10 | |
welcome to the programme. | 0:00:10 | 0:00:12 | |
We speak to a woman who's
campaigning for a change in the law | 0:00:12 | 0:00:15 | |
to make it easier to convict someone
who kills an unborn baby. | 0:00:15 | 0:00:23 | |
Malorie Bantala was eight months
pregnant when her baby - | 0:00:23 | 0:00:25 | |
Joel - was killed when his father
repeatedly kicked her | 0:00:25 | 0:00:27 | |
and stamped on her stomach. | 0:00:27 | 0:00:29 | |
The Labour leader,
Jeremy Corbyn, says again | 0:00:29 | 0:00:30 | |
we shouldn't be too hasty to condemn
Russia over the nerve agent | 0:00:30 | 0:00:33 | |
attack on a former spy
and his daughter in Salisbury. | 0:00:33 | 0:00:36 | |
Members of his party aren't so sure. | 0:00:36 | 0:00:41 | |
Jeremy's concern seems to be that we
could be rushing to some kind of | 0:00:41 | 0:00:45 | |
armed conflict with Russia. I just
don't think anybody is talking about | 0:00:45 | 0:00:48 | |
that at all. Nobody is talking about
invading Russia or launching air | 0:00:48 | 0:00:53 | |
strikes on Moscow. What the Prime
Minister set out are specific and | 0:00:53 | 0:01:00 | |
targeted measures, which are not of
a military nature, but we hope will | 0:01:00 | 0:01:04 | |
send a clear message to Russia that
its behaviour is completely | 0:01:04 | 0:01:07 | |
unacceptable. | 0:01:07 | 0:01:10 | |
We'll get reaction at the end
of an explosive week. | 0:01:10 | 0:01:16 | |
And there's controversy this
morning over this T-shirt. | 0:01:16 | 0:01:18 | |
The clothes shop, Topman, is facing
pressure to stop selling it - | 0:01:18 | 0:01:21 | |
because some Liverpool fans say it's
disrespectful to the 96 people who | 0:01:21 | 0:01:24 | |
died in the Hillsborough disaster. | 0:01:24 | 0:01:27 | |
Hello... | 0:01:35 | 0:01:36 | |
welcome to the programme,
we're live until 11 this morning. | 0:01:36 | 0:01:39 | |
We're also going to be
discussing "top five emails" - | 0:01:39 | 0:01:41 | |
after an advertising executive
who was leaving his job sent | 0:01:41 | 0:01:44 | |
round an email ranking his female
colleagues according to their looks. | 0:01:44 | 0:01:46 | |
And he sent it on
International Women's Day. | 0:01:46 | 0:01:48 | |
We'll be talking about
office culture and what | 0:01:48 | 0:01:50 | |
still needs to change. | 0:01:50 | 0:01:54 | |
Do get in touch with your stories
of sexist behaviour at work - | 0:01:54 | 0:01:57 | |
and the other stories we're talking
about this morning - | 0:01:57 | 0:02:02 | |
use the hashtag Victoria
Live and if you text, | 0:02:02 | 0:02:04 | |
you will be charged
at the standard network rate. | 0:02:04 | 0:02:06 | |
Our top story today... | 0:02:06 | 0:02:08 | |
At least four people have been
killed after a newly built bridge | 0:02:08 | 0:02:10 | |
collapsed onto a major
road in Miami. | 0:02:10 | 0:02:12 | |
Eight cars waiting at traffic
lights below were crushed. | 0:02:12 | 0:02:14 | |
Rescue teams are still
searching for suvivors. | 0:02:14 | 0:02:16 | |
Lebo Diseko reports. | 0:02:16 | 0:02:21 | |
This is all that's left
of the bridge that was | 0:02:21 | 0:02:24 | |
built for safety's sake. | 0:02:24 | 0:02:28 | |
Reduced to rubble. | 0:02:28 | 0:02:30 | |
Emergency services say
they are still in search | 0:02:30 | 0:02:32 | |
and rescue mode for now. | 0:02:32 | 0:02:34 | |
It is thought that several people
have died but it is not | 0:02:34 | 0:02:37 | |
clear yet how many. | 0:02:37 | 0:02:39 | |
We will continue to search this
pile until we are sure | 0:02:39 | 0:02:42 | |
that there are no other survivors. | 0:02:42 | 0:02:44 | |
We were able to remove
nine victims early on. | 0:02:44 | 0:02:51 | |
They have all been transported
to local area hospitals and once | 0:02:51 | 0:02:54 | |
we have completed our search
and rescue operations we will remain | 0:02:54 | 0:02:57 | |
on scene and help with
the recovery efforts as well. | 0:02:57 | 0:03:00 | |
It was just before two
in the afternoon local time | 0:03:00 | 0:03:04 | |
when the 950 ton bridge collapsed,
crashing down on the road | 0:03:04 | 0:03:09 | |
below and trapping people
and cars beneath it. | 0:03:09 | 0:03:13 | |
It was completed last Saturday
and was meant to get students from | 0:03:13 | 0:03:16 | |
Florida International University
safely across a busy motorway. | 0:03:16 | 0:03:23 | |
We were just hanging out
and then we didn't hear much | 0:03:23 | 0:03:31 | |
but we starting hearing sirens. | 0:03:32 | 0:03:34 | |
We looked outside and saw multiple
cars crushed under the bridge. | 0:03:34 | 0:03:36 | |
I was in the dorm and my uncle
called me and told me | 0:03:36 | 0:03:39 | |
a bridge collapsed. | 0:03:39 | 0:03:41 | |
I didn't believe him
at first because I saw them | 0:03:41 | 0:03:43 | |
put it up on Saturday. | 0:03:43 | 0:03:44 | |
The section that collapsed
was called an "instant | 0:03:44 | 0:03:46 | |
bridge" because of the fast
construction method used. | 0:03:46 | 0:03:48 | |
Authorities will want to know
how this structure, | 0:03:48 | 0:03:51 | |
which was meant to be iconic,
could have failed | 0:03:51 | 0:03:54 | |
so catastrophically. | 0:03:54 | 0:03:57 | |
Investigators are being sent
to the scene to try | 0:03:57 | 0:03:59 | |
and establish what happened. | 0:03:59 | 0:04:04 | |
Meanwhile, the company that
put the bridge up says | 0:04:04 | 0:04:06 | |
that it is devastated at the loss
of life and is doing | 0:04:06 | 0:04:09 | |
everything it can to help. | 0:04:09 | 0:04:10 | |
Lebo Diseko, BBC News. | 0:04:10 | 0:04:18 | |
Reeta Chakrabarti is
in the BBC Newsroom | 0:04:19 | 0:04:22 | |
with a summary of the rest
of the day's news. | 0:04:22 | 0:04:28 | |
The Russian foreign
minister, Sergei Lavrov, | 0:04:28 | 0:04:30 | |
has confirmed that Moscow will expel
British diplomats. | 0:04:30 | 0:04:32 | |
It follows Theresa May's
expulsion of 23 staff | 0:04:32 | 0:04:33 | |
from the Russian embassy in London,
over the nerve agent | 0:04:33 | 0:04:36 | |
attack in Salisbury. | 0:04:36 | 0:04:37 | |
Jeremy Corbyn has again questioned
whether the Russian state | 0:04:37 | 0:04:39 | |
was behind the poisoning. | 0:04:39 | 0:04:40 | |
In an article in the Guardian,
the Labour leader said | 0:04:40 | 0:04:42 | |
the government should not
rush to judgement. | 0:04:42 | 0:04:44 | |
Keith Doyle reports. | 0:04:44 | 0:04:46 | |
Russia might be diplomatically
isolated as world powers | 0:04:46 | 0:04:48 | |
fall in behind Britain. | 0:04:48 | 0:04:49 | |
But Vladimir Putin was showing no
signs of that at a rally before | 0:04:49 | 0:04:52 | |
this Sunday's election. | 0:04:52 | 0:04:53 | |
With 23 Russian diplomats considered
to be spies in exile from the UK, | 0:04:53 | 0:04:56 | |
the next move is his. | 0:04:56 | 0:05:04 | |
Moscow has continued its salvo
of defiant attacks, saying that | 0:05:09 | 0:05:11 | |
Britain has a boorish attitude
and it cannot be trusted. | 0:05:11 | 0:05:14 | |
And according to the Russian Foreign
Minister Sergey Lavrov, | 0:05:14 | 0:05:16 | |
it's even trying to distract
attention from Brexit. | 0:05:16 | 0:05:19 | |
Britain's own Defence Secretary
was equally blunt. | 0:05:19 | 0:05:23 | |
If you are a nation and another
nation has launched a nerve agent | 0:05:23 | 0:05:27 | |
attack on your people,
then we have every right to tell | 0:05:27 | 0:05:30 | |
Russia to shut up and go away. | 0:05:30 | 0:05:34 | |
Nato is agreeing with Britain's
assessment that Russia | 0:05:34 | 0:05:36 | |
was responsible for the nerve agent
attack in Salisbury. | 0:05:36 | 0:05:39 | |
The Prime Minister's very public
visit there has ensured that this | 0:05:39 | 0:05:44 | |
attack and all of its ramifications
remain very much in the limelight. | 0:05:44 | 0:05:48 | |
Here, behind covers and screens,
the investigation continues. | 0:05:48 | 0:05:52 | |
While in London and Moscow
and other world capitals, | 0:05:52 | 0:05:55 | |
a diplomatic war is under way. | 0:05:55 | 0:05:57 | |
Keith Doyle, BBC News. | 0:05:57 | 0:06:01 | |
Our Political
Correspondent Ben Wright | 0:06:01 | 0:06:02 | |
is in Westminster. | 0:06:02 | 0:06:07 | |
Just thinking about the reaction to
Jeremy Corbyn's comments, they seem | 0:06:07 | 0:06:12 | |
to have exposed sharp divisions
within the party. They certainly | 0:06:12 | 0:06:16 | |
have, divisions that have always
been there, I think, particularly on | 0:06:16 | 0:06:21 | |
foreign policy between Jeremy
Corbyn, who throughout his career | 0:06:21 | 0:06:24 | |
has opposed pretty much any military
action and confrontation. He has | 0:06:24 | 0:06:28 | |
been a critic of Nato. I think he
finds himself in a tricky position | 0:06:28 | 0:06:33 | |
leading the Labour Party on this,
who feel the government's position | 0:06:33 | 0:06:37 | |
on the whole is right and needs to
be backed unequivocally. Jeremy | 0:06:37 | 0:06:46 | |
Corbyn has a different view. He is
maintaining that while the Russian | 0:06:46 | 0:06:49 | |
state could be responsible for this,
he's also saying it could be | 0:06:49 | 0:06:51 | |
possible the nerve agent used in
Salisbury perhaps might have | 0:06:51 | 0:06:55 | |
originated in Russia but could have
fallen into the hands of some Mafia | 0:06:55 | 0:06:58 | |
like gangsters, and that is how it
ended up being used in Salisbury. In | 0:06:58 | 0:07:02 | |
an article in the Guardian today he
says that while the attack is | 0:07:02 | 0:07:06 | |
reckless and barbaric, politicians
need to keep their heads, look at | 0:07:06 | 0:07:09 | |
the evidence and not rush to
judgment. He says the government's | 0:07:09 | 0:07:13 | |
response to this in terms of
sanctions and diplomatic expulsions | 0:07:13 | 0:07:17 | |
is correct, but also says it could
be more effective if they go after | 0:07:17 | 0:07:21 | |
Russian | 0:07:21 | 0:07:26 | |
oligarchs in London and all their
money. He's raising lots of | 0:07:32 | 0:07:34 | |
questions about the government's
strategy and I think that | 0:07:34 | 0:07:36 | |
questioning is making many Labour
MPs on the backbenches and front | 0:07:36 | 0:07:38 | |
bench very uncomfortable. For
instance, Keir Starmer, the shadow | 0:07:38 | 0:07:40 | |
Brexit spokesperson said there
should be no ifs and no buts when it | 0:07:40 | 0:07:43 | |
comes to backing the government 's
strategy on this. But I think Jeremy | 0:07:43 | 0:07:46 | |
Corbyn is still asking a lot of
questions, which he feels are | 0:07:46 | 0:07:50 | |
completely legitimate, but they are
concerning his own party. | 0:07:50 | 0:07:55 | |
Egypt is to send a delegation
of MPs to the UK, | 0:07:55 | 0:07:58 | |
following the death of an Egyptian
student in Nottingham. | 0:07:58 | 0:08:00 | |
18-year-old Mariam Moustafa
died on Wednesday, | 0:08:00 | 0:08:02 | |
nearly a month after being attacked
in the city centre. | 0:08:02 | 0:08:05 | |
The hashtag "Mariam's rights
will not be lost" has | 0:08:05 | 0:08:08 | |
been trending in Egypt,
and the country's prosecutor-general | 0:08:08 | 0:08:10 | |
has asked for information
from British authorities | 0:08:10 | 0:08:11 | |
about the teenager's death. | 0:08:11 | 0:08:14 | |
One in four council-run
secondary schools in England | 0:08:14 | 0:08:16 | |
is running at a loss,
according to new research | 0:08:16 | 0:08:19 | |
by the Education Policy Institute. | 0:08:19 | 0:08:21 | |
The number of schools
in deficit has nearly trebled | 0:08:21 | 0:08:24 | |
in the last four years. | 0:08:24 | 0:08:32 | |
and is putting an extra
£1.3 billion into schools. | 0:08:32 | 0:08:38 | |
Syrian activists say
nearly 20,000 civilians | 0:08:38 | 0:08:39 | |
left the rebel enclave
of Eastern Ghouta yesterday, | 0:08:39 | 0:08:41 | |
in the biggest displacement
of people since government forces | 0:08:41 | 0:08:43 | |
intensified their
assault last month. | 0:08:43 | 0:08:45 | |
The British-based Syrian Observatory
for Human Rights says | 0:08:45 | 0:08:47 | |
the exodus stopped when rebels
launched a counter-attack. | 0:08:47 | 0:08:54 | |
MPs say they've been unable
to identify a border solution | 0:08:54 | 0:08:56 | |
operating anywhere in the world that
would enable an invisible border | 0:08:56 | 0:08:59 | |
to continue between Northern Ireland
and the Irish Republic after Brexit. | 0:08:59 | 0:09:01 | |
The Northern Ireland Affairs
Committee has called | 0:09:01 | 0:09:03 | |
on the government to set out more
details on how it will manage | 0:09:03 | 0:09:06 | |
the movement of people and goods
across the Irish border. | 0:09:06 | 0:09:09 | |
It's also warned that,
without a transition period, | 0:09:09 | 0:09:11 | |
there won't be enough time to put
new arrangements in place | 0:09:11 | 0:09:13 | |
by withdrawal day. | 0:09:13 | 0:09:21 | |
Four African countries
with the world's largest elephant | 0:09:21 | 0:09:23 | |
populations are expected to call
on Britain and the European Union to | 0:09:23 | 0:09:25 | |
ban the legal sale of antique ivory. | 0:09:25 | 0:09:27 | |
Ministers from Botswana will sign
a petition at a wildlife | 0:09:27 | 0:09:30 | |
summit in the country,
urging Europeans to follow | 0:09:30 | 0:09:31 | |
China's lead in outlawing
the sale of ivory products. | 0:09:31 | 0:09:34 | |
Alistair Leithead reports. | 0:09:34 | 0:09:37 | |
Africa's elephants are still
severely under threat, | 0:09:37 | 0:09:39 | |
with less animals being born
than the number killed | 0:09:39 | 0:09:41 | |
every year by poachers. | 0:09:41 | 0:09:45 | |
Here in Botswana, the last true
sanctuary for elephants | 0:09:45 | 0:09:47 | |
on the continent, African ministers,
scientists and conservationists | 0:09:47 | 0:09:49 | |
are again meeting to try
to stop the ivory trade. | 0:09:49 | 0:09:57 | |
Techniques used for counterterrorism
are now being used to stop poaching | 0:10:01 | 0:10:03 | |
and catch the culprits. | 0:10:03 | 0:10:05 | |
And they're being showcased
at the Giants Club Summit, | 0:10:05 | 0:10:09 | |
which aims to protect half
of Africa's elephants | 0:10:09 | 0:10:11 | |
and their habitat by 2020. | 0:10:11 | 0:10:13 | |
But there's another target. | 0:10:13 | 0:10:15 | |
The legal trade of antique ivory
in Britain and the rest of Europe. | 0:10:15 | 0:10:20 | |
The UK and the EU are the biggest
exporters of legal antique ivory. | 0:10:20 | 0:10:23 | |
These are sales that are permitted
and are allowed around the world. | 0:10:23 | 0:10:26 | |
Now, we have seen China has
banned their trade in ivory. | 0:10:26 | 0:10:29 | |
Hong Kong is saying it's
doing a similar thing. | 0:10:29 | 0:10:31 | |
The African leaders meeting
here with their governments | 0:10:31 | 0:10:33 | |
are hoping the EU and the UK
could do likewise and could stop | 0:10:33 | 0:10:36 | |
this trade in antique ivory. | 0:10:36 | 0:10:40 | |
It won't stop the poachers
targeting these animals | 0:10:40 | 0:10:43 | |
for their tusks across Africa,
but it will send a strong | 0:10:43 | 0:10:47 | |
message to try and reduce
the demand for ivory. | 0:10:47 | 0:10:52 | |
Alastair Leithead,
BBC News, in Botswana. | 0:10:52 | 0:10:58 | |
The singer Rihanna has
accused the social media | 0:10:58 | 0:11:01 | |
app Snapchat of "intentionally"
shaming victims of domestic abuse. | 0:11:01 | 0:11:05 | |
An advert for a game on the social
media platform asked | 0:11:05 | 0:11:08 | |
users if they would "rather slap
Rihanna or punch Chris Brown". | 0:11:08 | 0:11:11 | |
A spokesperson for the company said
the ad was "disgusting" and "should | 0:11:11 | 0:11:14 | |
never have appeared". | 0:11:14 | 0:11:17 | |
A man who calls himself
the French Spiderman has defied | 0:11:17 | 0:11:19 | |
security to climb to the top of one
of Paris's highest buildings. | 0:11:19 | 0:11:23 | |
Alain Robert was tackled by security
guards as tried to scale | 0:11:23 | 0:11:27 | |
the Total building. | 0:11:27 | 0:11:31 | |
But after being released
he returned to the challenge, | 0:11:31 | 0:11:34 | |
clambering 187 metres to the top. | 0:11:34 | 0:11:35 | |
Afterwards, he said he would
continue to climb for as long | 0:11:35 | 0:11:37 | |
as he was physically able. | 0:11:37 | 0:11:38 | |
That's a summary of the latest BBC
News - more at 9.30. | 0:11:38 | 0:11:46 | |
Do get in touch with us
throughout the morning - | 0:11:46 | 0:11:50 | |
use the hashtag Victoria Live | 0:11:50 | 0:11:53 | |
and if you text, you will be charged
at the standard network rate. | 0:11:53 | 0:11:57 | |
Let's get some sport... | 0:11:57 | 0:12:01 | |
The Winter Paralympics are drawing
to a close this weekend and as yet | 0:12:01 | 0:12:05 | |
Great Britain have not met their
medals target. What other chances to | 0:12:05 | 0:12:09 | |
improve situation?
The target was 6-12 medals and the | 0:12:09 | 0:12:18 | |
realistic game was seven set by
Paralympics GB. They are on five as | 0:12:18 | 0:12:22 | |
it stands. | 0:12:22 | 0:12:27 | |
More disapointment for
Great Britain's snowboarders | 0:12:32 | 0:12:36 | |
following on from the boarder cross
on Monday where the start | 0:12:36 | 0:12:39 | |
gate broke just before competition. | 0:12:39 | 0:12:40 | |
Today Ben Moore,
James Barnes-Miller and Owen Pick | 0:12:40 | 0:12:43 | |
all missed out on medals
in their Winter Paralympic banked | 0:12:43 | 0:12:45 | |
slalom events. | 0:12:45 | 0:12:49 | |
All got 3 runs, best time out
the three which counts. | 0:12:49 | 0:12:56 | |
Pick, GB's flag bearer,
missed a gate in his second | 0:12:56 | 0:12:58 | |
run and then failed
to improve in his third which we're | 0:12:58 | 0:13:00 | |
watching now, he was
well off the pace set | 0:13:00 | 0:13:02 | |
by the eventual winner from Japan. | 0:13:02 | 0:13:04 | |
It means Britain remain on five
medals, with two days of competition | 0:13:04 | 0:13:07 | |
remaining in Pyeongchang. | 0:13:07 | 0:13:08 | |
Paralympics GB relying
on Scott Meenagh in the cross | 0:13:08 | 0:13:10 | |
country tomorroew and the 3 pairs
in the Women's slalom to add | 0:13:10 | 0:13:15 | |
to their total of 5 in South Korea. | 0:13:15 | 0:13:19 | |
Our things starting to turn around
for Arsene Wenger? Arsenal in the | 0:13:19 | 0:13:24 | |
hat for the Europa League
quarterfinal draw after beating AC | 0:13:24 | 0:13:27 | |
Milan 3-1 last night. They went
behind at the Emirates but recovered | 0:13:27 | 0:13:31 | |
to score three times, winning the
tie 5-1 on aggregate. Danny Welbeck, | 0:13:31 | 0:13:37 | |
two goals last night on the day he
got back into the England squad for | 0:13:37 | 0:13:40 | |
the friendlies against the
Netherlands and Italy. Some big | 0:13:40 | 0:13:43 | |
teams left in the drawer including
Atletico Madrid, Marseille, Sporting | 0:13:43 | 0:13:48 | |
Lisbon, CSKA Moscow. Arsene Wenger
said he wanted to avoid Atletico | 0:13:48 | 0:13:57 | |
said he wanted to avoid Atletico in
the last eight. After losing to | 0:14:01 | 0:14:02 | |
Manchester City twice and Brighton
before the first leg, it was a run | 0:14:02 | 0:14:05 | |
of four defeats for Arsene Wenger
but he says they have proved a few | 0:14:05 | 0:14:08 | |
people wrong. We had a nightmare
week and to recover from that we | 0:14:08 | 0:14:10 | |
need to be mentally strong, to be
solid. And the team needed to show a | 0:14:10 | 0:14:16 | |
together response. That's what we
did. Overall, I think many people | 0:14:16 | 0:14:24 | |
didn't expect us to respond like we
did. The Champions League draw takes | 0:14:24 | 0:14:28 | |
place at 11 o'clock this morning,
Manchester City and Liverpool are | 0:14:28 | 0:14:33 | |
keeping an eye on who they will have
on the last eight of the Champions | 0:14:33 | 0:14:36 | |
League. The Europa League draw is an
hour later at midday. Arsenal are | 0:14:36 | 0:14:40 | |
well off the pace in the Premier
League so winning the Europa League | 0:14:40 | 0:14:44 | |
could well be their only way back
into the Champions League next | 0:14:44 | 0:14:47 | |
season. And still there are lots of
Arsenal fans who want Arsene Wenger | 0:14:47 | 0:14:51 | |
out but he has eased some pressure
with this Europa League run. He goes | 0:14:51 | 0:14:57 | |
on and on! Some breaking news that
is reaching us, we were talking in | 0:14:57 | 0:15:02 | |
the news about the Miami bridge
collapse and police have now | 0:15:02 | 0:15:05 | |
confirmed that six people have died
after the bridge collapsed in Miami. | 0:15:05 | 0:15:09 | |
We will bring you more developments
on that throughout the programme. | 0:15:09 | 0:15:16 | |
Malorie Bantala was eight months
pregnant when the father | 0:15:16 | 0:15:18 | |
of her unborn baby attacked her. | 0:15:18 | 0:15:25 | |
Kevin Wilson and his
17-year-old accomplice Tarsari | 0:15:25 | 0:15:26 | |
Grant repeatedly kicked and stamped
Malorie in the stomach. | 0:15:26 | 0:15:28 | |
It led to the stillbirth of her son
Joel and left her in a critical | 0:15:28 | 0:15:32 | |
condition, needing major surgery
on the hand she had used | 0:15:32 | 0:15:34 | |
for protection from the blows. | 0:15:34 | 0:15:37 | |
Branding the attack cowardly,
vile and callous the judge sentenced | 0:15:37 | 0:15:40 | |
Wilson to a minimum of 16 years
for child destruction and GBH. | 0:15:40 | 0:15:42 | |
Grant was given a 10-year
custodial sentence, | 0:15:42 | 0:15:44 | |
plus four years on licence. | 0:15:44 | 0:15:49 | |
Now three years on from the attack
and Malorie has launched a petition | 0:15:49 | 0:15:52 | |
and campaign calling for an urgent
review of the child destruction law, | 0:15:52 | 0:15:55 | |
which she feels makes it difficult
to get the sentence perpetrators | 0:15:55 | 0:15:58 | |
of these specific crimes deserve. | 0:15:58 | 0:16:05 | |
Speaking to us exclusively
in her first interview | 0:16:05 | 0:16:06 | |
since the attack Malorie
is here with us now. | 0:16:06 | 0:16:12 | |
Thank you for coming in. Thank you
for having me. What memories do you | 0:16:12 | 0:16:20 | |
have of the day of the attack? For
me it was just I remembered coming | 0:16:20 | 0:16:32 | |
home from a friend's house, I was
walking along the pathway towards my | 0:16:32 | 0:16:36 | |
house and the guy came out at me
from the bushes wearing a motorcycle | 0:16:36 | 0:16:44 | |
helmet. As he came out from the
bushes he stood beside me and let me | 0:16:44 | 0:16:50 | |
go. As I took a couple of steps
forward I see another guy with a | 0:16:50 | 0:16:55 | |
motorcycle helmet but then I
happened to recognise him. Just as | 0:16:55 | 0:17:00 | |
that happened, I found myself on the
floor so the first guide put me on | 0:17:00 | 0:17:05 | |
the floor. Next thing I know, I'm
being stamped and kicked by the guy | 0:17:05 | 0:17:14 | |
that got me pregnant. The first guy
from behind, he stumped me on the | 0:17:14 | 0:17:21 | |
stomach. At the time I was thinking
what's going on, why is he doing | 0:17:21 | 0:17:27 | |
this? All sorts of stuff was going
through my mind. Presumably terror | 0:17:27 | 0:17:32 | |
and thinking about what is happening
to your unborn child. Exactly, but | 0:17:32 | 0:17:39 | |
at the time I was in the state of
confusion, I didn't know what was | 0:17:39 | 0:17:43 | |
going on. And you knew it was him
because he recognised his eyes? No, | 0:17:43 | 0:17:51 | |
his eyes were covered with a
motorcycle helmet but just his | 0:17:51 | 0:17:54 | |
figure and what he was wearing. So
you were left lying on the pavement, | 0:17:54 | 0:18:00 | |
did anyone come to your aid? My
neighbour heard the screaming from | 0:18:00 | 0:18:06 | |
her house, she opened her window and
screamed, what are you doing? At | 0:18:06 | 0:18:15 | |
that moment, another neighbour saw
two guys on top of me and as my | 0:18:15 | 0:18:22 | |
neighbour screamed out of the window
they ran off and I think that is | 0:18:22 | 0:18:26 | |
what initially scared them off, but
if it wasn't for that God only knows | 0:18:26 | 0:18:30 | |
how long they would have continued
attacking me. So you were rushed to | 0:18:30 | 0:18:36 | |
hospital? Not really, no. The
ambulance couldn't make it so the | 0:18:36 | 0:18:43 | |
offices took me to hospital, then I
had to wait another hour or so just | 0:18:43 | 0:18:48 | |
to be seen by a nurse for an
assessment. And what's going on in | 0:18:48 | 0:18:53 | |
your mind during that time? I guess
you were starting to process what | 0:18:53 | 0:18:58 | |
happened. Initially I sat down, I
thought maybe my waters have broken, | 0:18:58 | 0:19:03 | |
I went to my neighbours' house but
they couldn't see anything. I wasn't | 0:19:03 | 0:19:10 | |
in a lot of pain because of the
adrenaline but then after some time | 0:19:10 | 0:19:13 | |
I started to realise, my baby hasn't
moved, so my instinct started to | 0:19:13 | 0:19:19 | |
tell me something was wrong because
he hadn't been moving for quite a | 0:19:19 | 0:19:23 | |
while. So you got to hospital and at
what point did you realise that Joel | 0:19:23 | 0:19:29 | |
had died? It was once they confirmed
it to me. I had a feeling, I already | 0:19:29 | 0:19:39 | |
kind of knew what I needed them to
confirm it. You had so much to | 0:19:39 | 0:19:46 | |
contend with because you had had a
Caesarean section... Yes, I had a | 0:19:46 | 0:19:53 | |
Caesarean section the following
evening because I couldn't give | 0:19:53 | 0:19:57 | |
birth naturally, it just wasn't
happening. Then after that I | 0:19:57 | 0:20:03 | |
realised or I was told that my
fingers have broken so I also had to | 0:20:03 | 0:20:09 | |
have surgery the same week, I think
a few days afterwards, I had to have | 0:20:09 | 0:20:15 | |
surgery on my fingers. And you lost
a lot of blood, you were in a bad | 0:20:15 | 0:20:20 | |
way. Then all of this happened and
of course the police were around as | 0:20:20 | 0:20:25 | |
well. They were around from the
start offering support, then once | 0:20:25 | 0:20:30 | |
they thought I was in a better state
to start explaining what happened, | 0:20:30 | 0:20:35 | |
that's when they intervened more.
The main focus was my health and to | 0:20:35 | 0:20:40 | |
make sure I was OK. And so how did
you begin to process? Because | 0:20:40 | 0:20:46 | |
presumably your family and friends
were trying to protect you but there | 0:20:46 | 0:20:51 | |
was intense media interest in the
story as well because journalists | 0:20:51 | 0:20:54 | |
see it as a story, it is your life
but they want to report what | 0:20:54 | 0:20:59 | |
happened. Initially I didn't know
how much media attention it gained. | 0:20:59 | 0:21:05 | |
I was in hospital, I didn't have a
phone. My family and friends would | 0:21:05 | 0:21:09 | |
only tell me so much just try and
keep me protected, and they knew I | 0:21:09 | 0:21:16 | |
would get overwhelmed with a lot
information so they just tried to | 0:21:16 | 0:21:24 | |
keep that away from me and I didn't
realise how much media attention it | 0:21:24 | 0:21:26 | |
got until after I came out of
hospital. Obviously the physical | 0:21:26 | 0:21:29 | |
injuries heal in time after the
operations but how have you been | 0:21:29 | 0:21:33 | |
able to process what happened to
you, that the father of your unborn | 0:21:33 | 0:21:38 | |
child was the person to take him
away from you? It's taken a long | 0:21:38 | 0:21:44 | |
time, to be fair, maybe two and a
half years just to get to a place | 0:21:44 | 0:21:48 | |
where I have finally accepted what's
happened. I will never understand, I | 0:21:48 | 0:21:53 | |
will never know why he did it and I
have accepted that, but for me my | 0:21:53 | 0:22:00 | |
main focus was just to make sure
that I was in a good place. I wasn't | 0:22:00 | 0:22:06 | |
going to let this define me, I
wasn't going to let this completely | 0:22:06 | 0:22:12 | |
take over my life and stop me from
moving on. Was one of the things | 0:22:12 | 0:22:19 | |
that helped you move on the fact
that you went to court and you | 0:22:19 | 0:22:24 | |
sought justice being served? Yes,
that was one of the main things but | 0:22:24 | 0:22:28 | |
also talking to my family and
friends, trying to get their outlook | 0:22:28 | 0:22:33 | |
on it and their support as well,
that helped me get to the place | 0:22:33 | 0:22:37 | |
where I am today. If we talk about
the trial, how hard was that for you | 0:22:37 | 0:22:42 | |
to listen to the evidence and
effectively relive that day that you | 0:22:42 | 0:22:46 | |
try to move on from? It was a tough
time. It was emotionally draining. I | 0:22:46 | 0:22:54 | |
did put on a brave face. I went
basically every single day just to | 0:22:54 | 0:22:59 | |
make sure that I knew what was going
on, I was in the loop, but when the | 0:22:59 | 0:23:06 | |
evidence came together and the first
time I knew of anything was in court | 0:23:06 | 0:23:11 | |
I was genuinely shocked, I couldn't
believe it and I think that's when | 0:23:11 | 0:23:14 | |
it really dawned on me that he
actually did that. There is no | 0:23:14 | 0:23:20 | |
excuse for his behaviour, none at
all. I am so glad justice was | 0:23:20 | 0:23:24 | |
served. Were you happy with the
sentence? Not at first, I will be | 0:23:24 | 0:23:32 | |
honest. A minimum of 16 years. For
him to get a life sentence passed, I | 0:23:32 | 0:23:40 | |
was lucky. There are other cases
where you don't | 0:23:40 | 0:23:49 | |
where you don't even have a
conviction. That is because this is | 0:23:49 | 0:23:52 | |
all part of your campaign now to
look at this review of the law | 0:23:52 | 0:23:56 | |
because I guess in your case it was
pretty simple for the police to | 0:23:56 | 0:24:01 | |
investigate. You were heavily
pregnant, this was the father of | 0:24:01 | 0:24:04 | |
your child, and he targeted
specifically your stomach so in many | 0:24:04 | 0:24:09 | |
ways it was easy to prosecute under
that law. Exactly, because according | 0:24:09 | 0:24:14 | |
to the law it is more about if the
police can prove the intent, they | 0:24:14 | 0:24:20 | |
can prove there was an intention to
harm or destroy or kill a baby, that | 0:24:20 | 0:24:26 | |
is when it is a lot easier for them
to prosecute a perpetrator, but if | 0:24:26 | 0:24:33 | |
it was a matter of recklessness, it
is a lot harder to prove that | 0:24:33 | 0:24:37 | |
because they may not have had the
intention to harm the baby's life, | 0:24:37 | 0:24:42 | |
but as a result their recklessness
has essentially ended a baby's life. | 0:24:42 | 0:24:49 | |
For example if a woman was in the
early stages of pregnancy and maybe | 0:24:49 | 0:24:54 | |
you cannot tell she's pregnant, but
she is attacked and the child's | 0:24:54 | 0:24:59 | |
diet, you feel that should be the
same as what happened to you? | 0:24:59 | 0:25:04 | |
Essentially yes, they should receive
some justice and pregnancy should | 0:25:04 | 0:25:13 | |
always be considered as an
aggravating factor. As the law is so | 0:25:13 | 0:25:17 | |
complex, it does save the child
should be capable of being born | 0:25:17 | 0:25:22 | |
alive, so at which stage is a child
capable of being born alive? It is a | 0:25:22 | 0:25:28 | |
matter of weeks so you need to
review the intent and you need to | 0:25:28 | 0:25:34 | |
review when do you consider a child
being born alive. But if you are | 0:25:34 | 0:25:41 | |
four months pregnant and it is very
unlikely a baby would survive being | 0:25:41 | 0:25:45 | |
born at that time, but it is still a
baby, isn't it? Yes but in the eyes | 0:25:45 | 0:25:51 | |
of the law and due to other ethical
arguments and stuff, a conviction | 0:25:51 | 0:25:57 | |
wouldn't pass so we have to tread
carefully and make sure that the | 0:25:57 | 0:26:05 | |
review actually is able to protect
women all-round. How do you feel | 0:26:05 | 0:26:12 | |
about child destruction law? The
term itself is just so cold. Yes, it | 0:26:12 | 0:26:19 | |
is, but it was created in 19 29th so
things have vastly moved on, and | 0:26:19 | 0:26:26 | |
that's the thing. That's why it
needs to be reviewed because the | 0:26:26 | 0:26:29 | |
whole reason why it was created was
to actually tackle backstreet | 0:26:29 | 0:26:36 | |
abortions. Since then, abortion laws
have been passed, and the whole | 0:26:36 | 0:26:42 | |
purpose for them using the law now
is completely different to the | 0:26:42 | 0:26:45 | |
reason why it was introduced. What
reaction have you had from | 0:26:45 | 0:26:51 | |
politicians when you have raised
this? I have had support from Neil | 0:26:51 | 0:26:56 | |
Coyle and Harriet Harman, they have
been supportive in this. Since I've | 0:26:56 | 0:27:01 | |
released the petition on social
media, I have had a lot of support | 0:27:01 | 0:27:05 | |
as well. A lot of positive
responses. A few women have actually | 0:27:05 | 0:27:10 | |
come forward to me and told me some
of the similar experiences they have | 0:27:10 | 0:27:16 | |
had, which is a good thing because
at least I know I'm doing this for a | 0:27:16 | 0:27:20 | |
good reason and I'm not just the
only one that has experienced this. | 0:27:20 | 0:27:25 | |
There are many other women who have
gone through the same experience | 0:27:25 | 0:27:34 | |
Azmi or something similar. Mallory,
thank you for coming to talk to us. | 0:27:34 | 0:27:39 | |
-- | 0:27:39 | 0:27:45 | |
-- Malorie | 0:27:45 | 0:27:47 | |
-- Malorie. | 0:27:47 | 0:27:50 | |
Still to come... | 0:27:50 | 0:27:51 | |
We'll have the very latest
on the investigation | 0:27:51 | 0:27:53 | |
into the poisoning of a former spy
and his daughter in Salisbury | 0:27:53 | 0:27:55 | |
and the use of a military nerve
agent on British soil. | 0:27:55 | 0:27:58 | |
A significant rise in the number of
children being excluded from school. | 0:27:58 | 0:28:01 | |
As the government
launches a new review, | 0:28:01 | 0:28:03 | |
we'll be finding out what's
going wrong and why certain groups | 0:28:03 | 0:28:05 | |
of young people are far more likely
to be kicked out of mainstream | 0:28:05 | 0:28:08 | |
school than others. | 0:28:08 | 0:28:09 | |
Time for the latest news. | 0:28:09 | 0:28:12 | |
Here's Reeta with the BBC News
headlines this morning. | 0:28:12 | 0:28:14 | |
Officials in Florida say six
people have been killed | 0:28:14 | 0:28:16 | |
by a footbridge which collapsed
onto a busy road in Miami. | 0:28:16 | 0:28:19 | |
Eight vehicles were crushed
when the walkway gave way, less | 0:28:19 | 0:28:21 | |
than a week after being installed. | 0:28:21 | 0:28:23 | |
The bridge at Florida
International University | 0:28:23 | 0:28:24 | |
was put up in one day,
using a technique designed | 0:28:24 | 0:28:26 | |
to minimise traffic disruption. | 0:28:26 | 0:28:28 | |
Police say rescue teams
will work throughout the day | 0:28:28 | 0:28:30 | |
to search for survivors,
but the number of dead | 0:28:30 | 0:28:32 | |
is likely to rise. | 0:28:32 | 0:28:38 | |
They are saying at least,
because there is the possibility, | 0:28:38 | 0:28:40 | |
the sad possibility,
that under the concrete there may be | 0:28:40 | 0:28:43 | |
additional vehicles. | 0:28:43 | 0:28:49 | |
And they are trying to work at it,
the engineers are working at it | 0:28:49 | 0:28:52 | |
in a very tactical way. | 0:28:52 | 0:28:54 | |
Because again, as I mentioned
before, the structure is very | 0:28:54 | 0:28:56 | |
fragile and it could be very
dangerous to rescue personnel | 0:28:56 | 0:28:58 | |
that are still there,
people that are working. | 0:28:58 | 0:29:00 | |
Russia's foreign
minister, Sergei Lavrov, | 0:29:00 | 0:29:02 | |
has confirmed Moscow will expel
British diplomats. | 0:29:02 | 0:29:04 | |
The move follows Theresa May's
expulsion of 23 staff | 0:29:04 | 0:29:07 | |
from the Russian embassy in London,
over the nerve agent | 0:29:07 | 0:29:09 | |
attack in Salisbury. | 0:29:09 | 0:29:11 | |
Jeremy Corbyn has again questioned
Russia's involvement | 0:29:11 | 0:29:13 | |
in the poisoning of the former spy,
Sergei Skripal, and | 0:29:13 | 0:29:17 | |
his daughter, Yulia. | 0:29:17 | 0:29:21 | |
One in four council-run
secondary schools in England | 0:29:21 | 0:29:23 | |
is running at a loss,
according to new research | 0:29:23 | 0:29:26 | |
by the Education Policy Institute. | 0:29:26 | 0:29:28 | |
The number of schools
in deficit has nearly trebled | 0:29:28 | 0:29:30 | |
in the last four years. | 0:29:30 | 0:29:32 | |
The government says it doesn't
recognise the report's findings, | 0:29:32 | 0:29:34 | |
and is putting an extra 1.3 billion
pounds into schools. | 0:29:34 | 0:29:39 | |
Syrian activists say
nearly 20,000 civilians | 0:29:39 | 0:29:41 | |
left the rebel enclave
of Eastern Ghouta yesterday, | 0:29:41 | 0:29:43 | |
in the biggest displacement
of people since government forces | 0:29:43 | 0:29:45 | |
intensified their
assault last month. | 0:29:45 | 0:29:50 | |
The British-based Syrian Observatory
for Human Rights says | 0:29:50 | 0:29:53 | |
the exodus stopped when rebels
launched a counter-attack. | 0:29:53 | 0:30:01 | |
African countries want the European
Union to ban trade in antique Ivory | 0:30:02 | 0:30:06 | |
saying it would cut demand by making
ivory and unacceptable ornament. | 0:30:06 | 0:30:11 | |
Thousands are killed for their
elephant tusks each year. | 0:30:11 | 0:30:15 | |
That's a summary of
the latest BBC News. | 0:30:15 | 0:30:21 | |
Lots of you getting in touch after
we were talking to Mallory there. | 0:30:21 | 0:30:26 | |
One person says, what an amazingly
brave and articulate woman. I have | 0:30:26 | 0:30:29 | |
nothing but respect for her. I
remember this happening, I felt sick | 0:30:29 | 0:30:34 | |
for her then, and I still do now.
Another person getting in touch, my | 0:30:34 | 0:30:38 | |
heart goes out to the young lady for
what happened to her. I hope she | 0:30:38 | 0:30:42 | |
gets a review on the child
destruction law, best of luck to | 0:30:42 | 0:30:45 | |
her. Get in touch with us on all the
stories we are talking about. | 0:30:45 | 0:30:49 | |
Sport now with Will. | 0:30:49 | 0:30:57 | |
Today Ben Moore,
James Barnes-Miller and Owen Pick | 0:31:00 | 0:31:02 | |
all missed out on medals
in their Winter Paralympic banked | 0:31:02 | 0:31:05 | |
slalom events. | 0:31:05 | 0:31:08 | |
Great Britain have five medals so
far of the seven they targeted. | 0:31:08 | 0:31:16 | |
Arsenal in the hat
for the Europa League | 0:31:16 | 0:31:18 | |
quarterfinal draw after beating AC
Milan 3-1 last night. | 0:31:18 | 0:31:20 | |
They went behind at
the Emirates but recovered | 0:31:20 | 0:31:22 | |
to score three times,
winning the tie 5-1 on aggregate. | 0:31:22 | 0:31:25 | |
Leg-spinner Mason Crane will miss
out on the England tour of New | 0:31:25 | 0:31:27 | |
Zealand. He has been replaced by
Jack Leach. Trainer Nicky Henderson | 0:31:27 | 0:31:30 | |
is chasing an historic treble in the
Cheltenham Gold cup today. Victory | 0:31:30 | 0:31:36 | |
would make Henderson the first
trainer to win the Champion hurdle, | 0:31:36 | 0:31:40 | |
Champion Chase and gold cup at one
festival meeting. | 0:31:40 | 0:31:47 | |
It's been an explosive week
in the investigation into how | 0:31:47 | 0:31:49 | |
a former Russian spy
and his daughter came to be | 0:31:49 | 0:31:52 | |
poisoned in Salisbury. | 0:31:52 | 0:31:53 | |
Both are still in a critical
condition and the police officer | 0:31:53 | 0:31:56 | |
who went to help them
remains in hospital. | 0:31:56 | 0:31:58 | |
It's now been confirmed that
the Novichok nerve agent was used - | 0:31:58 | 0:32:01 | |
a chemical British authorities say
was only manufactured | 0:32:01 | 0:32:03 | |
in the former Soviet Union. | 0:32:03 | 0:32:05 | |
Theresa May has ordered 23 Russian
diplomats to leave the country | 0:32:05 | 0:32:08 | |
and Russia has since vowed
to retaliate in kind. | 0:32:08 | 0:32:13 | |
But the Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn
has again warned against being too | 0:32:13 | 0:32:16 | |
hasty in pointing the finger
at Russian President Vladimir Putin, | 0:32:16 | 0:32:19 | |
sparking criticism from his own MPs. | 0:32:19 | 0:32:26 | |
So before all of this happened,
how bad were Anglo-Russian | 0:32:26 | 0:32:28 | |
relations, and is this a move
towards another Cold War? | 0:32:28 | 0:32:31 | |
It's a spy story reminiscent
of the darkest days of the Cold War, | 0:32:31 | 0:32:35 | |
and it's caused an international
rift that's left UK/Russia relations | 0:32:35 | 0:32:38 | |
at their lowest ebb for decades. | 0:32:38 | 0:32:40 | |
So, how did we get here? | 0:32:40 | 0:32:43 | |
On the 4th of March,
two people were found slumped | 0:32:43 | 0:32:46 | |
on a bench outside a pizza
restaurant in the quiet, | 0:32:46 | 0:32:48 | |
picturesque town of Salisbury. | 0:32:48 | 0:32:50 | |
They were said to be
in an extremely serious condition. | 0:32:50 | 0:32:53 | |
They were quickly identified
as Sergei Skripal - | 0:32:53 | 0:32:58 | |
a former Russian spy who defected
to the British - | 0:32:58 | 0:33:00 | |
and his 33-year-old daughter Yulia. | 0:33:00 | 0:33:02 | |
In July 2010, Mr Skripal had been
one of four prisoners released | 0:33:02 | 0:33:05 | |
by Moscow in exchange for ten
Russian spies. | 0:33:05 | 0:33:08 | |
And by all accounts
he'd lived a quiet life | 0:33:08 | 0:33:10 | |
since arriving in the UK. | 0:33:10 | 0:33:15 | |
As the police investigation
progressed, traces of a nerve agent | 0:33:15 | 0:33:17 | |
were found near the scene
where the Skripals spent | 0:33:17 | 0:33:21 | |
the afternoon, and it became clear
that they'd been poisoned. | 0:33:21 | 0:33:23 | |
The Skripals remain critically ill
in hospital and a police officer | 0:33:23 | 0:33:26 | |
who was also hospitalised
after attending the incident, | 0:33:26 | 0:33:30 | |
Detective Sergeant Nick Bailey,
is said to be in a | 0:33:30 | 0:33:33 | |
serious condition. | 0:33:33 | 0:33:34 | |
In addition, 38 others
were seen by medics, | 0:33:34 | 0:33:36 | |
although they've now nearly
all been discharged. | 0:33:36 | 0:33:39 | |
Prime Minister Theresa May later
said the chemicals used | 0:33:39 | 0:33:41 | |
in the attack had been identified
as being part of a group | 0:33:41 | 0:33:44 | |
of nerve agents developed
by Russia, known as Novichok. | 0:33:44 | 0:33:48 | |
On Monday she spoke in the House
of Commons, asking pointedly | 0:33:48 | 0:33:51 | |
for an explanation from the Russian
government as to how this deadly | 0:33:51 | 0:33:54 | |
chemical could have found its way
onto British streets. | 0:33:54 | 0:33:56 | |
There are therefore only two
plausible explanations | 0:33:56 | 0:33:58 | |
for what happened in Salisbury
on the 4th of March. | 0:33:58 | 0:34:02 | |
Either this was a direct act
by the Russian state | 0:34:02 | 0:34:05 | |
against our country,
or the Russian government lost | 0:34:05 | 0:34:09 | |
control of its potentially
catastrophically damaging nerve | 0:34:09 | 0:34:12 | |
agent and allowed it to get
into the hands of others. | 0:34:12 | 0:34:16 | |
This afternoon, my right honourable
friend the Foreign Secretary has | 0:34:16 | 0:34:19 | |
summoned the Russian ambassador
to the Foreign & Commonwealth Office | 0:34:19 | 0:34:24 | |
and asked him to explain which of
these two possibilities it is. | 0:34:24 | 0:34:27 | |
When no explanation was forthcoming,
she came back to the House | 0:34:27 | 0:34:32 | |
on Wednesday and announced that
all high-level talks | 0:34:32 | 0:34:34 | |
between UK officials
and Russia would be suspended, | 0:34:34 | 0:34:36 | |
and that the UK would expel 23
Russian diplomats from Britain. | 0:34:36 | 0:34:40 | |
They have treated the use
of the military grade nerve agent | 0:34:40 | 0:34:44 | |
in Europe with sarcasm,
contempt and defiance. | 0:34:44 | 0:34:49 | |
So, Mr Speaker, there is no
alternative conclusion other | 0:34:49 | 0:34:53 | |
than that the Russian state
was culpable for the attempted | 0:34:53 | 0:34:55 | |
murder of Mr Skripal
and his daughter. | 0:34:55 | 0:34:58 | |
Meanwhile, the Kremlin has denied
any links to the murder | 0:34:58 | 0:35:02 | |
and condemned allegations
of its involvement as a provocation. | 0:35:02 | 0:35:05 | |
But many have drawn
comparisons with the death | 0:35:05 | 0:35:08 | |
of Alexander Litvinenko,
a former Russian spy murdered | 0:35:08 | 0:35:11 | |
with radioactive polonium in 2006,
and pointed to other unexplained | 0:35:11 | 0:35:15 | |
deaths of Russian nationals
hostile to the Kremlin. | 0:35:15 | 0:35:21 | |
Yesterday, Britain's allies France,
the United States and Germany issued | 0:35:21 | 0:35:23 | |
a joint statement condemning
the first offensive use | 0:35:23 | 0:35:25 | |
of a nerve agent in Europe
since the Second World War. | 0:35:25 | 0:35:28 | |
They called it an assault
on the UK's sovereignty. | 0:35:28 | 0:35:31 | |
With the UK/Russia relationship now
under a dark cloud of mutual | 0:35:31 | 0:35:34 | |
mistrust and tension,
the likes of which haven't | 0:35:34 | 0:35:36 | |
been seen for decades,
many commentators have asked | 0:35:36 | 0:35:39 | |
whether the alleged use
of a chemical weapon in Britain may | 0:35:39 | 0:35:42 | |
mean that the conclusion that Russia
and the West are now in the grip | 0:35:42 | 0:35:46 | |
of a second Cold War is unavoidable. | 0:35:46 | 0:35:47 | |
Certainly, there's good reason
to believe that things may well get | 0:35:47 | 0:35:50 | |
worse before they get better. | 0:35:50 | 0:35:57 | |
To talk us through
that are John Lough - | 0:35:57 | 0:35:59 | |
Former Nato representative in Moscow
and Russia expert at Chatham House. | 0:35:59 | 0:36:04 | |
And Edward Lucas -
Author of The New Cold War | 0:36:04 | 0:36:06 | |
and 'Deception, Spies,
Lies and How Russia | 0:36:06 | 0:36:10 | |
dupes the West.' | 0:36:10 | 0:36:14 | |
Thank you for both joining us. John,
how have we got to the stage where | 0:36:14 | 0:36:20 | |
Russia comes on to British soil and
attempts to murder someone? Our | 0:36:20 | 0:36:25 | |
relations that bad that they can
feel they can just come to Britain | 0:36:25 | 0:36:28 | |
and act this way? I think the answer
is yes. Relations have been very bad | 0:36:28 | 0:36:34 | |
for a long time. In your preview
piece you referred to the murder of | 0:36:34 | 0:36:40 | |
Alexander Litvinenko in 2006. I
think the Russians thought at the | 0:36:40 | 0:36:44 | |
time they got away with this because
there was a rather lame reaction | 0:36:44 | 0:36:48 | |
from the government at the time. We
kicked out some diplomats, we | 0:36:48 | 0:36:54 | |
stopped talking to the Russian
security services, but a nuclear | 0:36:54 | 0:36:57 | |
weapon had been used on the streets
of London and all the traces were | 0:36:57 | 0:37:00 | |
there. They went back to Moscow and
we were able to eventually identify | 0:37:00 | 0:37:05 | |
who had carried out this murder. The
public enquiry, which was held | 0:37:05 | 0:37:10 | |
several years later, concluded that
the order was probably given by the | 0:37:10 | 0:37:15 | |
head of the Russian security service
and President Putin, at least with | 0:37:15 | 0:37:19 | |
their approval. So relations have
been in a very poor state. The UK | 0:37:19 | 0:37:23 | |
has tried to rebuild some dialogue,
pursued a policy of engagement and | 0:37:23 | 0:37:28 | |
deterrence. In other words, trying
to deter this really damaging and | 0:37:28 | 0:37:34 | |
dangerous behaviour by Russia. I
would say there has been rather too | 0:37:34 | 0:37:37 | |
much emphasis on engagement and
rather less on deterrence. But this | 0:37:37 | 0:37:41 | |
changes the game. The events of 2014
when Russia annexed Crimea and it | 0:37:41 | 0:37:48 | |
destabilised eastern Ukraine, which
almost brought about a very serious | 0:37:48 | 0:37:52 | |
border conflict in Europe, that has
sobered a number of mines in London. | 0:37:52 | 0:37:57 | |
The reaction we are seeing this time
is a little bit different to 2006. | 0:37:57 | 0:38:05 | |
They have effectively stepped up.
Edward, why do you think rationally | 0:38:05 | 0:38:10 | |
used a nerve agent, Novichok, which
is clearly from Russia, it almost | 0:38:10 | 0:38:15 | |
has a Russian stamp on it. Were they
being blatant, did they want to be | 0:38:15 | 0:38:20 | |
found out or do they not care? The
conclusion is they were doing it in | 0:38:20 | 0:38:25 | |
a blatant way. If they just wanted
to kill Sergei Skripal for some | 0:38:25 | 0:38:28 | |
reason of their own, they could have
done it very discreetly, but they | 0:38:28 | 0:38:32 | |
did that in a very dangerous and
reckless way that endangered the | 0:38:32 | 0:38:35 | |
lives of so many other people in
Salisbury who have nothing to do | 0:38:35 | 0:38:39 | |
with the world of espionage and geo-
political intrigue. I think they are | 0:38:39 | 0:38:43 | |
testing us. I think they tried it in
2006 and they got away with it. They | 0:38:43 | 0:38:48 | |
see that Britain is weak, isolated,
isolated because of the | 0:38:48 | 0:38:53 | |
transatlantic relationship being in
trouble because of Donald J Trump, | 0:38:53 | 0:38:57 | |
and isolated because our
relationship with Europe is in | 0:38:57 | 0:38:59 | |
trouble because of Brexit and we are
desperate for international money. | 0:38:59 | 0:39:02 | |
They think they can give is another
knock and see if they cannot is over | 0:39:02 | 0:39:06 | |
and show we are not able to respond
to this of provocation. They might | 0:39:06 | 0:39:12 | |
view us as weak, John, but will they
care much that the US, France, | 0:39:12 | 0:39:17 | |
Germany and the UK have released a
joint statement saying it was Russia | 0:39:17 | 0:39:20 | |
and it's not acceptable? I don't
think they will care very much. This | 0:39:20 | 0:39:26 | |
is largely hot air, they will think,
and is there really the willingness | 0:39:26 | 0:39:30 | |
on the part of the leading Western
countries to Russia and invest in | 0:39:30 | 0:39:38 | |
defences and play this out over the
longer term? That's where the | 0:39:38 | 0:39:42 | |
Russian vulnerability is. I don't
believe it can sustain this sort of | 0:39:42 | 0:39:47 | |
posture indefinitely. It's costing
the country money, opportunities. | 0:39:47 | 0:39:50 | |
The economy is not doing
particularly well. What the Russians | 0:39:50 | 0:39:54 | |
are very skilful at is assembling
power, putting together instruments | 0:39:54 | 0:39:58 | |
of power that they can deploy
against our weaknesses. They are | 0:39:58 | 0:40:02 | |
able to identify our weakness is
very effectively. They can see the | 0:40:02 | 0:40:07 | |
shift in the transatlantic
relationship and the fishes in Nato. | 0:40:07 | 0:40:10 | |
They can see society is in
particular. It has reduced the | 0:40:10 | 0:40:19 | |
influence of the United States and
Europe, and is likely to do so, and | 0:40:19 | 0:40:22 | |
the UK is looking rather isolated.
Edward, are we heading to a new Cold | 0:40:22 | 0:40:27 | |
War? I released a book in 2007
called the new Cold War, and people | 0:40:27 | 0:40:33 | |
criticised me for scaremongering at
the time but I was not gloomy | 0:40:33 | 0:40:36 | |
enough. I was mainly worried about
money and the military threat in | 0:40:36 | 0:40:40 | |
some corners of Europe. I didn't
think that we were going to face | 0:40:40 | 0:40:44 | |
this kind of really effective
propaganda blitz which we face all | 0:40:44 | 0:40:50 | |
over Europe now, which is
demoralising and dividing society. | 0:40:50 | 0:40:53 | |
It never crossed my mind Russia
would be able to be intervening in | 0:40:53 | 0:40:57 | |
the American political system in the
way that it has. We have been | 0:40:57 | 0:41:01 | |
complacent and arrogant, and Russia
has been getting stronger and | 0:41:01 | 0:41:04 | |
stronger. What annoys me is we were
warned about this in the 1990s by | 0:41:04 | 0:41:09 | |
our friends in Eastern Europe, and
we ignored them, patronised and | 0:41:09 | 0:41:13 | |
belittled them, saying we understood
Russia better than they did. It's | 0:41:13 | 0:41:16 | |
the other way round, they understood
what was happening and we didn't. | 0:41:16 | 0:41:21 | |
Let's talk about gas if we can.
Britain is reliant on Russian gas | 0:41:21 | 0:41:26 | |
supplies. Before Christmas there
were times when it was needed. Are | 0:41:26 | 0:41:30 | |
the Russians likely to use that as a
lever against us, saying they will | 0:41:30 | 0:41:35 | |
not provide it? I think it's about
1% of our gas supply. We still used | 0:41:35 | 0:41:42 | |
some before Christmas. We used some.
The world is awash with liquid gas. | 0:41:42 | 0:41:48 | |
20 years ago gas all came through
pipelines but now we can buy it by | 0:41:48 | 0:41:52 | |
the tank load, just the way we buy
oil. You might have to buy it in | 0:41:52 | 0:41:56 | |
advance because the tankers don't
move fast, but we can supply all our | 0:41:56 | 0:42:00 | |
gas needs without being dependent on
Russian liquefied natural gas. It | 0:42:00 | 0:42:04 | |
might be the cheapest around, but we
can avoid it if we want to. Russia | 0:42:04 | 0:42:10 | |
has a political weapon in Eastern
Europe because of pipelines, but | 0:42:10 | 0:42:13 | |
even there, the EU in the last ten
years has built new pipelines and | 0:42:13 | 0:42:17 | |
storage capacity to the point what
we used to call the abominable | 0:42:17 | 0:42:24 | |
gasman of Russia, the gas pressure
on the east of Europe, that has | 0:42:24 | 0:42:28 | |
almost diminished. We are in pretty
good shape on that front. I'm more | 0:42:28 | 0:42:32 | |
worried about Russian dirty money in
politics and media over here. We | 0:42:32 | 0:42:36 | |
will be talking about this again in
the next half an hour. Thank you to | 0:42:36 | 0:42:41 | |
John and Edward for speaking to us. | 0:42:41 | 0:42:44 | |
Coming up... | 0:42:44 | 0:42:47 | |
Fashion retailer Topman have come
under fire for a shirt that some | 0:42:47 | 0:42:50 | |
people believe refers
to the Hillsborough disaster - | 0:42:50 | 0:42:53 | |
we'll be getting reaction. | 0:42:53 | 0:42:57 | |
They have stopped selling the shirt. | 0:42:57 | 0:43:03 | |
On this programme we've recently
highlighted a significant rise | 0:43:03 | 0:43:05 | |
in the number of children
being excluded from school. | 0:43:05 | 0:43:11 | |
Last year - more than 6500
students were permanently | 0:43:11 | 0:43:13 | |
kicked out of mainstream schools
in England But WAY more than that - | 0:43:13 | 0:43:16 | |
48,000 - are being educated
in units set up for children | 0:43:16 | 0:43:19 | |
who've been excluded. | 0:43:19 | 0:43:20 | |
Today, the government's
announced plans | 0:43:20 | 0:43:21 | |
for a review to find out exactly
what's going wrong and why certain | 0:43:21 | 0:43:24 | |
groups of people are far more
affected by the problem than others. | 0:43:24 | 0:43:27 | |
For example - if you're
an Afro-Caribbean boy, | 0:43:27 | 0:43:29 | |
you're three times more likely to be
excluded than other children, | 0:43:29 | 0:43:32 | |
kids in care are five times more
likely to be excluded. | 0:43:32 | 0:43:36 | |
Last month, we visited
Hawkswood Primary Pupil | 0:43:36 | 0:43:38 | |
Referral Unit in London -
it's a school for children, | 0:43:38 | 0:43:41 | |
who are in danger of being
permanently excluded | 0:43:41 | 0:43:42 | |
from their mainstream schools. | 0:43:42 | 0:43:45 | |
Have a look at this short clip
from the programme - | 0:43:45 | 0:43:48 | |
it features a six-year-old boy
called Kayden, who'd been previously | 0:43:48 | 0:43:52 | |
excluded and is now learning
to control his behaviour. | 0:43:52 | 0:43:57 | |
Careful! | 0:43:57 | 0:44:00 | |
Careful! | 0:44:00 | 0:44:02 | |
Kayden lives with his
nanny and grandad. | 0:44:02 | 0:44:05 | |
Sometimes we do family game night. | 0:44:05 | 0:44:09 | |
What do you play? | 0:44:09 | 0:44:13 | |
We play Jenga... | 0:44:13 | 0:44:14 | |
And Pie Face, the new one. | 0:44:14 | 0:44:16 | |
Grandad? | 0:44:16 | 0:44:17 | |
Yep? | 0:44:17 | 0:44:19 | |
After this, when I win... | 0:44:19 | 0:44:21 | |
When Kayden came into our life,
then I realised there was more | 0:44:21 | 0:44:24 | |
issues going on than just
a typical little boy. | 0:44:24 | 0:44:28 | |
The darkest point, I think, for us,
was knowing that he was having | 0:44:28 | 0:44:31 | |
really bad meltdowns at school,
and the school was | 0:44:31 | 0:44:34 | |
unable to manage that. | 0:44:34 | 0:44:36 | |
He was climbing up on furniture,
he was lifting up tables, throwing | 0:44:36 | 0:44:39 | |
objects around the classrooms. | 0:44:39 | 0:44:43 | |
It was just really disturbing
for other children to see. | 0:44:43 | 0:44:46 | |
INDISTINCT SHOUTING. | 0:44:46 | 0:44:54 | |
Come here. | 0:44:54 | 0:44:58 | |
Leave me alone! | 0:44:58 | 0:45:01 | |
I just want to be left alone! | 0:45:01 | 0:45:04 | |
OK, then, I can take
you to the blue chair, | 0:45:04 | 0:45:06 | |
I can leave you alone there. | 0:45:06 | 0:45:07 | |
I just want to be left alone! | 0:45:07 | 0:45:09 | |
I want to be left alone! | 0:45:09 | 0:45:11 | |
You want to be left alone? | 0:45:11 | 0:45:13 | |
It's not safe for me
to leave you here. | 0:45:13 | 0:45:15 | |
I want to! | 0:45:15 | 0:45:16 | |
I can leave you alone,
I can leave you alone, but not here. | 0:45:16 | 0:45:19 | |
Here is not the place. | 0:45:19 | 0:45:21 | |
I can leave you alone inside
the classroom on the blue chair. | 0:45:21 | 0:45:24 | |
I don't...! | 0:45:24 | 0:45:25 | |
You know you're not
allowed to hit me, Kayden. | 0:45:25 | 0:45:28 | |
I don't even care! | 0:45:28 | 0:45:29 | |
OK, well, I do care. | 0:45:29 | 0:45:30 | |
I don't care! | 0:45:30 | 0:45:32 | |
I don't like it. | 0:45:32 | 0:45:35 | |
Kayden, why are we
here on the floor? | 0:45:37 | 0:45:39 | |
Are you able to use your words
and tell me what's happened? | 0:45:39 | 0:45:42 | |
OK, that's fine, but this isn't
a very safe place to be, | 0:45:42 | 0:45:45 | |
in the middle of the corridor. | 0:45:45 | 0:45:47 | |
I don't even care! | 0:45:47 | 0:45:48 | |
You don't need to care,
you just need to know that we do. | 0:45:48 | 0:45:51 | |
He almost ran from the noise,
and I would say it distressed him, | 0:45:51 | 0:45:54 | |
and then that lead onto undesired
behaviour. | 0:45:54 | 0:45:58 | |
I know that he wanted a little bit
of peace and quiet to calm down. | 0:45:58 | 0:46:01 | |
Kayden, can we go to a safer
place than the corridor? | 0:46:01 | 0:46:04 | |
That's a bit quieter? | 0:46:04 | 0:46:05 | |
He was kind of stuck in the moment,
so you try a few different tactics. | 0:46:05 | 0:46:09 | |
Well done. | 0:46:09 | 0:46:10 | |
Can I show you something
before we go? | 0:46:10 | 0:46:12 | |
I just want to show
you something, look. | 0:46:12 | 0:46:14 | |
We said, "Oh, have you
seen our new library? | 0:46:14 | 0:46:16 | |
Do you want to go in?" | 0:46:16 | 0:46:17 | |
And that was it, he
came right out of it. | 0:46:17 | 0:46:20 | |
And that's my favourite. | 0:46:20 | 0:46:21 | |
No way?! | 0:46:21 | 0:46:22 | |
That is your favourite book?! | 0:46:22 | 0:46:23 | |
Are you serious?! | 0:46:23 | 0:46:24 | |
Oh, my goodness! | 0:46:24 | 0:46:25 | |
Right... | 0:46:25 | 0:46:26 | |
That's Lego Batman. | 0:46:26 | 0:46:27 | |
Do you know what we're going to do? | 0:46:27 | 0:46:34 | |
That was distraction. | 0:46:34 | 0:46:35 | |
In that moment, that's
what brought him down again. | 0:46:35 | 0:46:40 | |
So he's been in education
to two and half years | 0:46:40 | 0:46:43 | |
and still can't read and write. | 0:46:43 | 0:46:44 | |
He would never have done that. | 0:46:44 | 0:46:45 | |
He could just about write his name
and maybe single words, | 0:46:45 | 0:46:48 | |
but that's only since he's
been at Hawkswood. | 0:46:48 | 0:46:53 | |
There's been a drastic
change in Kayden. | 0:46:53 | 0:46:55 | |
He can sit down now
for at least five, ten minutes | 0:46:55 | 0:46:58 | |
and actually play a game. | 0:46:58 | 0:46:59 | |
He can do a little bit
of reading with us now. | 0:46:59 | 0:47:02 | |
He can sit, you know,
and just eat his dinner. | 0:47:02 | 0:47:04 | |
Wow, so did you have
lots of fun at school today? | 0:47:04 | 0:47:07 | |
We don't take Kayden out very often. | 0:47:07 | 0:47:08 | |
We struggle with the fact
that we are worried that | 0:47:08 | 0:47:11 | |
Kayden's going to run off,
or he has meltdowns and then we've | 0:47:11 | 0:47:14 | |
got to try to explain that
to parents or people that | 0:47:14 | 0:47:16 | |
are staring and looking. | 0:47:16 | 0:47:21 | |
And I think it's the hardest thing
is to try to explain | 0:47:21 | 0:47:24 | |
to someone that, actually,
"I'm really sorry that my child has | 0:47:24 | 0:47:27 | |
done this to your child,
or done it it to you or whatever, | 0:47:27 | 0:47:30 | |
but you can't label a child." | 0:47:30 | 0:47:31 | |
Kayden is not diagnosed,
so until that diagnosis has been | 0:47:31 | 0:47:34 | |
made, I will not put a label on him. | 0:47:34 | 0:47:37 | |
A little earlier we spoke
to Nadhim Zahawi, who's the Children | 0:47:37 | 0:47:40 | |
and Families Minister,
about the government's plans to look | 0:47:40 | 0:47:42 | |
into why so many children
are being excluded and why certain | 0:47:42 | 0:47:45 | |
groups are more
affected than others. | 0:47:45 | 0:47:48 | |
No alternative provision should be
a dumping ground for anyone. | 0:47:48 | 0:47:51 | |
I think the right thing
to do is for us to review | 0:47:51 | 0:47:55 | |
what is happening with exclusions
and have a strategy to make sure | 0:47:55 | 0:47:59 | |
alternative provision is the best
quality we can make it, | 0:47:59 | 0:48:01 | |
so the outcomes for all those
children, whether they are | 0:48:01 | 0:48:05 | |
reintegrated into mainstream,
or have to be in alternative | 0:48:05 | 0:48:08 | |
specialist provision,
actually get the best educational | 0:48:08 | 0:48:14 | |
attainment, and, of course,
the best outcome in terms | 0:48:14 | 0:48:16 | |
of employment or training for them
in the future. | 0:48:16 | 0:48:20 | |
That's the purpose of this. | 0:48:20 | 0:48:23 | |
It's why we are also launching
the 4 million Innovation Fund | 0:48:23 | 0:48:28 | |
to look at best practice
in alternative provision and see | 0:48:28 | 0:48:30 | |
how we scale that up. | 0:48:30 | 0:48:32 | |
I mentioned the Anna Freud centres
and the work they are doing. | 0:48:32 | 0:48:35 | |
I think one of your particular
examples of a young man | 0:48:35 | 0:48:37 | |
at the Everton School... | 0:48:37 | 0:48:40 | |
The Education Select Committee
hasn't given its final findings. | 0:48:40 | 0:48:43 | |
It's expected to look pretty
bad for the government. | 0:48:43 | 0:48:45 | |
Is this why the government
has come out now ahead | 0:48:45 | 0:48:48 | |
of that final report,
to try and show that it is | 0:48:48 | 0:48:50 | |
taking some initiative? | 0:48:50 | 0:48:52 | |
It's not going to look good for you. | 0:48:52 | 0:48:54 | |
You mentioned the £4 million
that is being ploughed | 0:48:54 | 0:48:56 | |
into this Innovation Fund. | 0:48:56 | 0:48:58 | |
£4 million, it's not a lot of money. | 0:48:58 | 0:49:02 | |
Well, the Education Select Committee
work is incredibly important. | 0:49:02 | 0:49:06 | |
It is a serious committee,
with serious colleagues, | 0:49:06 | 0:49:13 | |
a cross-party and they look at this
in real depth and we | 0:49:13 | 0:49:16 | |
always listen to them. | 0:49:16 | 0:49:17 | |
I was before them looking
at the fostering review we asked | 0:49:17 | 0:49:20 | |
of Sir Martin Narey and Mark Owers, | 0:49:20 | 0:49:22 | |
and of course their own
report into fostering | 0:49:22 | 0:49:24 | |
in our country this week. | 0:49:24 | 0:49:29 | |
So their work is
incredibly important. | 0:49:29 | 0:49:30 | |
But this review and the work
that the Prime Minister has | 0:49:30 | 0:49:33 | |
asked Ed Timpson to do
is incredibly important. | 0:49:33 | 0:49:35 | |
Look, she's the first Prime Minister
to actually ask for a race disparity | 0:49:35 | 0:49:43 | |
order and publish it,
and ask all her departments to step | 0:49:43 | 0:49:46 | |
up and explain or take action
as to what we do about these things. | 0:49:46 | 0:49:53 | |
And through that we discover that
Afro-Caribbean boys are three times | 0:49:53 | 0:49:55 | |
more likely to be excluded. | 0:49:55 | 0:49:57 | |
This is serious work,
and this idea that somehow we react | 0:49:57 | 0:50:00 | |
because of the select committee... | 0:50:00 | 0:50:05 | |
Of course it's important work,
but this has been on our radar | 0:50:05 | 0:50:09 | |
for a long time, and it's right
that we review what is happening | 0:50:09 | 0:50:12 | |
as we begin to get outcomes for
children in alternative provision, | 0:50:12 | 0:50:15 | |
so it's the best possible
that we can make it. | 0:50:15 | 0:50:23 | |
Let's talk to Gilroy Northover -
he was excluded from school | 0:50:24 | 0:50:27 | |
and now works at the same
Pupil Referral Unit | 0:50:27 | 0:50:29 | |
where he was sent. | 0:50:29 | 0:50:33 | |
Brenda McHugh - set
up the family school, | 0:50:33 | 0:50:35 | |
an Alternative Provision School in
London. | 0:50:35 | 0:50:38 | |
And Zack Kelly - he was excluded
from school while in care, | 0:50:38 | 0:50:41 | |
he went to Everton Free School,
which is an alternative | 0:50:41 | 0:50:43 | |
provision school. | 0:50:43 | 0:50:44 | |
He now works at
Everton Football Club. | 0:50:44 | 0:50:52 | |
I want to start with you because you
were excluded from school when you | 0:50:56 | 0:51:00 | |
were at 15, what do you put that
down to? Not enough support at home, | 0:51:00 | 0:51:06 | |
could you be diagnosed with dyslexia
or something else. Mainstream school | 0:51:06 | 0:51:20 | |
doesn't dig in that deep to a child
because there's 30 in a class, if | 0:51:20 | 0:51:25 | |
one is being disruptive get rid of
the one rather than the 29 so we | 0:51:25 | 0:51:29 | |
don't know if that child has
something going on at home, if that | 0:51:29 | 0:51:34 | |
child is being abused or neglected.
What was your need that wasn't | 0:51:34 | 0:51:40 | |
recognised? I was going through
different things, my mum was a | 0:51:40 | 0:51:44 | |
single parent of four, I am the
youngest. I was calling out for | 0:51:44 | 0:51:50 | |
help, however I cannot articulate my
words because as well as being a boy | 0:51:50 | 0:51:57 | |
child, we are in a generation where
we cannot express our emotions so we | 0:51:57 | 0:52:00 | |
are in a world where if a man
expresses his emotions it is a sign | 0:52:00 | 0:52:04 | |
of weakness so you don't want to get
labelled as weakness in secondary | 0:52:04 | 0:52:08 | |
school because peer pressure comes
into it, you could get bullied, so | 0:52:08 | 0:52:12 | |
you have to create this bravado
where you have to be at the top. You | 0:52:12 | 0:52:17 | |
are strong but crying out for help.
That's right. Zack, can you identify | 0:52:17 | 0:52:25 | |
with that? Because you were in care,
then excluded. It was because I was | 0:52:25 | 0:52:33 | |
going through a lot of stuff at home
at the time and I was in and out of | 0:52:33 | 0:52:38 | |
care over the years while I was
still at school. I have a lot going | 0:52:38 | 0:52:43 | |
on in my head and at home, a lot of
issues going on. When I went into | 0:52:43 | 0:52:48 | |
school, because I didn't really know
how to release those emotions, when | 0:52:48 | 0:52:53 | |
I was speaking to someone I would be
lashing out and misbehaving at | 0:52:53 | 0:52:58 | |
school so that forced me to either
get excluded or suspended due to my | 0:52:58 | 0:53:04 | |
behaviour. Does it surprise you when
you hear the statistic that children | 0:53:04 | 0:53:07 | |
in care are five times more likely
to be excluded from school? Yes | 0:53:07 | 0:53:17 | |
because this is crazy because many
people growing up in care, they | 0:53:18 | 0:53:22 | |
don't necessarily, some people
haven't been kicked out of school | 0:53:22 | 0:53:28 | |
and people have different stories
and backgrounds. It is quite crazy | 0:53:28 | 0:53:31 | |
to hear that to be honest because
many people have either got issues | 0:53:31 | 0:53:40 | |
at home, issues in their personal
life so everyone is going through a | 0:53:40 | 0:53:43 | |
different story in their life. | 0:53:43 | 0:53:51 | |
different story in their life. Most
people have been excluded from | 0:53:51 | 0:53:53 | |
school, being in care, it is a crazy
statistic really. Let's bring Brenda | 0:53:53 | 0:53:59 | |
in because I know that you set up
this family school and one of the | 0:53:59 | 0:54:03 | |
particular focuses is on mental
health support because you see that | 0:54:03 | 0:54:06 | |
as being... Missing, in mainstream
education? I think that is why Anna | 0:54:06 | 0:54:14 | |
Freud set up the family school
because we know from Gilroy and Zack | 0:54:14 | 0:54:24 | |
that behaviour masks difficulties,
and striving to find out what lies | 0:54:24 | 0:54:29 | |
behind that behaviour, because that
behaviour is quite often an exit | 0:54:29 | 0:54:32 | |
from an opportunity to be in a
mainstream school where there are | 0:54:32 | 0:54:36 | |
lots of life opportunities for young
children. So really important not | 0:54:36 | 0:54:41 | |
just think is it one thing, but to
have an enquiring mind, to have time | 0:54:41 | 0:54:46 | |
and the expertise to be able to
think what lies behind this | 0:54:46 | 0:54:50 | |
behaviour, and what can we do to
support that young person. In the | 0:54:50 | 0:54:56 | |
case of Gilroy, the family as well,
in order to | 0:54:56 | 0:55:04 | |
in order to resolve of those
problems because if the family where | 0:55:04 | 0:55:06 | |
you live is going to support you
back into school, you would need to | 0:55:06 | 0:55:10 | |
trust they have the skills and
confidence. What happens if the | 0:55:10 | 0:55:12 | |
family are not supportive, because I
guess the -- that is the challenge. | 0:55:12 | 0:55:19 | |
They might not have the time because
of the practicalities of life. The | 0:55:19 | 0:55:27 | |
children we meet often tell
heart-rending stories about the | 0:55:27 | 0:55:31 | |
impact of exclusion on them. They
may be at work, get a phone call, | 0:55:31 | 0:55:35 | |
they need to pick up their child or
the impact on the other children. | 0:55:35 | 0:55:40 | |
The family life is completely
disrupted by the exclusion so many | 0:55:40 | 0:55:45 | |
of our families, by the time they
get together and come to the Family | 0:55:45 | 0:55:50 | |
School, they say thank goodness, I'm
also meeting other families that | 0:55:50 | 0:55:55 | |
have felt the shame or hopelessness
of exclusion and now I feel I am | 0:55:55 | 0:56:00 | |
somewhere, like you were saying,
where I say I actually have | 0:56:00 | 0:56:06 | |
difficulties and I'm not going to be
judged by this and I'm ready to get | 0:56:06 | 0:56:10 | |
the help. Families come saying, at
least now we are in the same boat | 0:56:10 | 0:56:14 | |
and we can begin to think, what is
going wrong with my child? So what | 0:56:14 | 0:56:19 | |
is the solution? We spoke about
children in care five times more | 0:56:19 | 0:56:25 | |
likely to be excluded, black boys
three times more likely to be | 0:56:25 | 0:56:29 | |
excluded. What is the solution to
that? The solution, as I said | 0:56:29 | 0:56:35 | |
before, we need more key workers,
more mentors to come into mainstream | 0:56:35 | 0:56:39 | |
schools and be one-to-one with these
children, and children need to get | 0:56:39 | 0:56:44 | |
support at their houses as well. If
they are at work and they cannot | 0:56:44 | 0:56:48 | |
support them, they should have a key
worker in place for that child. | 0:56:48 | 0:56:53 | |
People listening to this, and Zack
is nodding his head, the problem is | 0:56:53 | 0:57:00 | |
lots of secondary schools are in
deficit, there was a real crisis in | 0:57:00 | 0:57:05 | |
funding. My own children's schools
are forever having meetings about | 0:57:05 | 0:57:17 | |
how to raise money. | 0:57:17 | 0:57:24 | |
how to raise money. In 2020 we
should have 17 schools open across | 0:57:24 | 0:57:27 | |
different borrowers so we are all
connected and we can all go to | 0:57:27 | 0:57:32 | |
different units and experience and
learn different things from | 0:57:32 | 0:57:36 | |
different schools we work in to
improve, as well as see how | 0:57:36 | 0:57:42 | |
different systems work in different
schools. Zack, what do you think | 0:57:42 | 0:57:47 | |
would be a way to tackle this and
stop so many children being | 0:57:47 | 0:57:53 | |
excluded? It is similar to what
Gilroy said, there is an really a | 0:57:53 | 0:57:59 | |
lot of support around young
children. To have meant touring | 0:57:59 | 0:58:06 | |
scheme in place, if a young person
is getting in trouble and at risk of | 0:58:06 | 0:58:10 | |
exclusion, so I think it would be
good if there could be a system that | 0:58:10 | 0:58:19 | |
comes together where, if the child
is in the process of going down the | 0:58:19 | 0:58:25 | |
wrong road, then they can be pulled
out straightaway again and given the | 0:58:25 | 0:58:31 | |
support and management may need. It
is the only intervention we hear | 0:58:31 | 0:58:34 | |
about so often, and it always comes
down to money which is the tricky | 0:58:34 | 0:58:38 | |
point. One person has got in touch
saying, possible unconscious bias | 0:58:38 | 0:58:44 | |
towards Afro-Caribbean boys in my
opinion. School-age black boys who | 0:58:44 | 0:58:49 | |
hit puberty earlier can be
intimidating to teachers with more | 0:58:49 | 0:58:54 | |
muscles and a deeper voice than
other demographics but the reality | 0:58:54 | 0:58:57 | |
is they are still children. Another
one says, it's all about competition | 0:58:57 | 0:59:01 | |
between schools which means some
schools would rather get rid of kids | 0:59:01 | 0:59:06 | |
that affect their reputation, this
is wrong and should not be | 0:59:06 | 0:59:09 | |
happening. Get in touch on the
hashtag Victoria live. Thank you so | 0:59:09 | 0:59:16 | |
much for coming in this morning. Now
let's get the latest weather with | 0:59:16 | 0:59:20 | |
Lucy Martin. It's not going to be a
good weekend, is it? | 0:59:20 | 0:59:30 | |
It's turning much colder as we head
into the weekend with a mini beast | 0:59:30 | 0:59:34 | |
from east bringing colder
conditions. By the time we get to | 0:59:34 | 0:59:38 | |
tomorrow we are struggling to reach
five Celsius after a potential 14 | 0:59:38 | 0:59:42 | |
today. Mixed fortunes with how much
sunshine we'll see. This photo from | 0:59:42 | 0:59:46 | |
North Wales but it's brighter in
Kent, blue skies to start the day, | 0:59:46 | 0:59:52 | |
although there are patches of mist
and fog. Outbreaks of rain today | 0:59:52 | 0:59:56 | |
across north-east Scotland and North
East England, some falling as snow | 0:59:56 | 0:59:59 | |
over high ground. Cloudy with
outbreaks of rain over Northern | 0:59:59 | 1:00:03 | |
Ireland and north-west England.
Brightening up with rain in the | 1:00:03 | 1:00:06 | |
Midlands and North Wales, good
spells of sunshine, but perhaps some | 1:00:06 | 1:00:14 | |
heavy and thundery showers. A high
of 14 Celsius but it will be windy | 1:00:14 | 1:00:18 | |
in the north. This evening and
overnight, the rain will turn to | 1:00:18 | 1:00:21 | |
snow even of lower levels and it
will start to sink South and West | 1:00:21 | 1:00:25 | |
into parts of the Midlands, East
Anglia and maybe Wales as well. The | 1:00:25 | 1:00:29 | |
wind started to strengthen in the
south with temperatures largely | 1:00:29 | 1:00:32 | |
falling below zero. The far
south-west holding onto some | 1:00:32 | 1:00:34 | |
slightly milder temperatures. As we
move on to the weekend, high | 1:00:34 | 1:00:40 | |
pressure over Scandinavia, pulling
in really cold air from the east, a | 1:00:40 | 1:00:45 | |
similar setup to what we saw a few
weeks ago. Doesn't look like it will | 1:00:45 | 1:00:49 | |
be for as long, just the weekend. A
much colder start to tomorrow, | 1:00:49 | 1:00:54 | |
Apache outbreaks of rain, sleet and
snow clearing the south-west in the | 1:00:54 | 1:00:57 | |
morning. Snow showers feeding in
from East. The far north-west just | 1:00:57 | 1:01:03 | |
staying dry in Scotland.
Temperatures staying largely in low | 1:01:03 | 1:01:06 | |
single figures, but when we had in
the brisk north-easterly wind, it's | 1:01:06 | 1:01:11 | |
feeling significantly colder, -7 in
Norwich. As we head into Sunday, | 1:01:11 | 1:01:15 | |
perhaps a longer spell of snow for a
time. A little bit of uncertainty as | 1:01:15 | 1:01:23 | |
to the exact position of the sunny
spells. Stay tuned to the forecast. | 1:01:23 | 1:01:28 | |
Cold start the day on Sunday, some
of ice. Possible disruption. Snow | 1:01:28 | 1:01:35 | |
patches moving west as we had
through the day. It will not feel | 1:01:35 | 1:01:39 | |
warm with temperatures in the single
figures when we add in the wind, | 1:01:39 | 1:01:44 | |
feeling very cold. Into the weekend,
thing turning colder. Perhaps | 1:01:44 | 1:01:52 | |
turning to 14 Celsius today, but
struggling over the weekend. The | 1:01:52 | 1:01:56 | |
wind will make it feel significant
the colder and there is some snow in | 1:01:56 | 1:02:00 | |
the forecast. Take care and keep
up-to-date with the forecast as we | 1:02:00 | 1:02:03 | |
head into the next few days. | 1:02:03 | 1:02:05 | |
Hello it's Friday, it's 10 o'clock,
I'm Chloe Tilley... | 1:02:11 | 1:02:15 | |
Our top story - calls
for Jeremy Corbyn to take | 1:02:15 | 1:02:17 | |
a tougher line after he warns
against 'hasty judgements' over | 1:02:17 | 1:02:20 | |
who poisoned a Russian
spy and his daughter. | 1:02:20 | 1:02:22 | |
In a newspaper article he says
'let's not manufacture a division | 1:02:22 | 1:02:24 | |
over Russia where none exists'. | 1:02:24 | 1:02:26 | |
The evidence points
towards Russia on this. | 1:02:26 | 1:02:27 | |
Therefore, the responsibility
must be borne by those | 1:02:27 | 1:02:29 | |
that made the weapon,
those that brought the weapon | 1:02:29 | 1:02:31 | |
into the country and those
that used the weapon. | 1:02:31 | 1:02:34 | |
What I was asking were questions - | 1:02:34 | 1:02:36 | |
questions about the
identity of the weapon. | 1:02:36 | 1:02:42 | |
Questions about the reference
to the Weapons Convention. | 1:02:42 | 1:02:44 | |
And also the support
of other allies in this. | 1:02:44 | 1:02:51 | |
If you are a nation ans=d nother
nation has launched a nerve agent | 1:02:51 | 1:02:54 | |
attack on your people,
then we have every right to tell | 1:02:54 | 1:02:57 | |
Russia to shut up and go away. | 1:02:57 | 1:02:58 | |
I think the Prime Minister
was absolutely right to expel those | 1:02:58 | 1:03:01 | |
diplomats and the actions
we are taking. | 1:03:01 | 1:03:05 | |
We'll get reaction to this -
and find out whether other countries | 1:03:05 | 1:03:08 | |
- who've said they support
Theresa May - are likely to take any | 1:03:08 | 1:03:11 | |
action against Russia. | 1:03:11 | 1:03:12 | |
One of the nation's favourite soaps
Coronation Street is to screen | 1:03:12 | 1:03:15 | |
a harrowing male rape storyline. | 1:03:15 | 1:03:19 | |
We'll hear from one man
who has been raped twice | 1:03:19 | 1:03:23 | |
and also from Coronation
Street's producer. | 1:03:23 | 1:03:28 | |
Retailer Top Man tells this
programme it will no | 1:03:28 | 1:03:29 | |
longer sell this shirt
after criticism from some people | 1:03:29 | 1:03:32 | |
who believe it refers
to the Hillsborough disaster. | 1:03:32 | 1:03:34 | |
When the £20 shirt went on sale
online and in stores it | 1:03:34 | 1:03:37 | |
provoked a furious reaction
from Liverpool fans, | 1:03:37 | 1:03:39 | |
who took to Twitter. | 1:03:39 | 1:03:44 | |
The retailer Top Man told this
programme it apologises | 1:03:44 | 1:03:46 | |
unreservedly for any offence caused
by the shirt and has | 1:03:46 | 1:03:49 | |
removed it from sale. | 1:03:49 | 1:03:57 | |
It's coming up to 10.0 4am. We can
go to the BBC newsroom for a summary | 1:03:58 | 1:04:08 | |
of today's news. | 1:04:08 | 1:04:11 | |
Officials in Florida say six
people have been killed | 1:04:11 | 1:04:13 | |
by a footbridge which collapsed
onto a busy road in Miami. | 1:04:13 | 1:04:16 | |
Eight vehicles were crushed
when the walkway gave way, less | 1:04:16 | 1:04:18 | |
than a week after being installed. | 1:04:18 | 1:04:20 | |
The bridge at Florida
International University | 1:04:20 | 1:04:21 | |
was put up in one day,
using a technique designed | 1:04:21 | 1:04:24 | |
to minimise traffic disruption. | 1:04:24 | 1:04:25 | |
Police say rescue teams
will work throughout the day | 1:04:25 | 1:04:27 | |
to search for survivors,
but the number of dead | 1:04:27 | 1:04:29 | |
is likely to rise. | 1:04:29 | 1:04:31 | |
This has turned from a rescue into a
recovery operation. We are able to | 1:04:31 | 1:04:37 | |
confirm to you at this point, and
you have to stand this is a very | 1:04:37 | 1:04:40 | |
slow process and they are still
working away at the concrete. | 1:04:40 | 1:04:42 | |
Engineers told us last night that it
has to be done very carefully, not | 1:04:42 | 1:04:46 | |
only because of the fact we have to
preserve evidence and there may be | 1:04:46 | 1:04:51 | |
possible victims under there and we
have to treat it delicately, but | 1:04:51 | 1:04:54 | |
also the safety of the rescuers as
well. Because of the unstable nature | 1:04:54 | 1:05:00 | |
of the bridge right now. It's a very
slow process and they have been | 1:05:00 | 1:05:03 | |
working all night long. They are
still working. We can confirm at | 1:05:03 | 1:05:08 | |
this point that at least there are
six fatalities. | 1:05:08 | 1:05:12 | |
They are saying at least,
because there is the possibility, | 1:05:12 | 1:05:14 | |
the sad possibility,
that under the concrete there may be | 1:05:14 | 1:05:16 | |
additional vehicles. | 1:05:16 | 1:05:19 | |
And they are trying to work at it,
the engineers are working at it | 1:05:19 | 1:05:23 | |
in a very tactical way. | 1:05:23 | 1:05:24 | |
Because again, as I mentioned
before, the structure is very | 1:05:24 | 1:05:28 | |
fragile and it could be very
dangerous to rescue personnel | 1:05:28 | 1:05:31 | |
that are still there,
people that are working. | 1:05:31 | 1:05:34 | |
Russia's foreign
minister, Sergei Lavrov, | 1:05:34 | 1:05:35 | |
has confirmed Moscow will expel
British diplomats. | 1:05:35 | 1:05:38 | |
The move follows Theresa May's
expulsion of 23 staff | 1:05:38 | 1:05:40 | |
from the Russian embassy in London,
over the nerve agent | 1:05:40 | 1:05:42 | |
attack in Salisbury. | 1:05:42 | 1:05:45 | |
Jeremy Corbyn has again questioned
Russia's involvement | 1:05:45 | 1:05:48 | |
in the poisoning of the former spy,
Sergei Skripal, and | 1:05:48 | 1:05:51 | |
his daughter, Yulia. | 1:05:51 | 1:05:55 | |
One in four council-run
secondary schools in England | 1:05:55 | 1:05:57 | |
is running at a loss,
according to new research | 1:05:57 | 1:05:59 | |
by the Education Policy Institute. | 1:05:59 | 1:06:00 | |
The number of schools
in deficit has nearly trebled | 1:06:00 | 1:06:02 | |
in the last four years. | 1:06:02 | 1:06:04 | |
The government says it doesn't
recognise the report's findings, | 1:06:04 | 1:06:09 | |
and is putting an extra
£1.3 billion into schools. | 1:06:09 | 1:06:14 | |
One in four council-run
secondary schools in England | 1:06:14 | 1:06:16 | |
is running at a loss,
according to new research | 1:06:16 | 1:06:18 | |
by the Education Policy Institute. | 1:06:18 | 1:06:20 | |
The number of schools
in deficit has nearly trebled | 1:06:20 | 1:06:22 | |
in the last four years. | 1:06:22 | 1:06:24 | |
The government says it doesn't
recognise the report's findings, | 1:06:24 | 1:06:26 | |
and is putting an extra
£1.3 billion into schools. | 1:06:26 | 1:06:30 | |
MPs say they've been unable
to identify a border solution | 1:06:30 | 1:06:34 | |
operating anywhere in the world that
would enable an invisible border | 1:06:34 | 1:06:37 | |
to continue between Northern Ireland
and the Irish Republic after Brexit. | 1:06:37 | 1:06:40 | |
The Northern Ireland Affairs
Committee has called | 1:06:40 | 1:06:41 | |
on the government to set out more
details on how it will manage | 1:06:41 | 1:06:44 | |
the movement of people and goods
across the Irish border. | 1:06:44 | 1:06:47 | |
It's also warned that,
without a transition period, | 1:06:47 | 1:06:49 | |
there won't be enough time to put
new arrangements in place | 1:06:49 | 1:06:51 | |
by withdrawal day. | 1:06:51 | 1:06:54 | |
Egypt is to send a delegation
of MPs to the UK, | 1:06:54 | 1:06:57 | |
following the death of an Egyptian
student in Nottingham. | 1:06:57 | 1:07:00 | |
18-year-old Mariam Moustafa
died on Wednesday, | 1:07:00 | 1:07:01 | |
nearly a month after being attacked
in the city centre. | 1:07:01 | 1:07:04 | |
The hashtag "Mariam's rights
will not be lost" has | 1:07:04 | 1:07:06 | |
been trending in Egypt. | 1:07:06 | 1:07:14 | |
Syrian activists say
nearly 20,000 civilians | 1:07:15 | 1:07:16 | |
left the rebel enclave
of Eastern Ghouta yesterday, | 1:07:16 | 1:07:18 | |
in the biggest displacement
of people since government forces | 1:07:18 | 1:07:21 | |
intensified their
assault last month. | 1:07:21 | 1:07:22 | |
The British-based Syrian Observatory
for Human Rights says | 1:07:22 | 1:07:24 | |
the exodus stopped when rebels
launched a counter-attack. | 1:07:24 | 1:07:32 | |
That's a summary of the latest BBC
News - more at 10.30. | 1:07:38 | 1:07:44 | |
Do get in touch with us
throughout the morning - | 1:07:44 | 1:07:49 | |
use the hashtag Victoria Live | 1:07:49 | 1:07:51 | |
and if you text, you will be charged
at the standard network rate. | 1:07:51 | 1:07:57 | |
Time for some sports now. Another
day to forget for Great Britain's | 1:07:57 | 1:08:02 | |
Benmore, James Barnes Miller and
Owen Pickard after they failed to | 1:08:02 | 1:08:05 | |
make the podium in the boardercross
earlier this week. Paralympics GB | 1:08:05 | 1:08:08 | |
have five medals in Pyeongchang,
behind the UK sport target of 6-12 | 1:08:08 | 1:08:16 | |
with two days after competition. I'm
gutted. This was my event. I came | 1:08:16 | 1:08:20 | |
here to do well in this event and
I'm upset. But there's nothing I can | 1:08:20 | 1:08:24 | |
do about it now. I can't change what
happened. I did whatever I could and | 1:08:24 | 1:08:28 | |
it wasn't enough this time. | 1:08:28 | 1:08:38 | |
Arsenal will find out this morning
who they'll play in the quarter | 1:08:39 | 1:08:42 | |
finals of the Eurpa League. | 1:08:42 | 1:08:43 | |
Danny Welbeck scored twice last
night as they beat AC Milan 3-1 | 1:08:43 | 1:08:46 | |
with Arsene Wenger's side cruising
through 5-1 on aggregate. | 1:08:46 | 1:08:48 | |
Wenger says he wants
to avoid Atletico Madrid, | 1:08:48 | 1:08:50 | |
when the draw is made at midday
and After losing to Manchester City | 1:08:50 | 1:08:53 | |
twice and Brighton before the first
leg he believes they've proved a few | 1:08:53 | 1:08:56 | |
people wrong. | 1:08:56 | 1:08:57 | |
We had a nightmare week. And to
recover from that you need to be | 1:08:57 | 1:09:03 | |
mentally strong. You need to be
solid. And the team needs to show a | 1:09:03 | 1:09:10 | |
together response. That's what we
did. Overall, I think many people | 1:09:10 | 1:09:19 | |
didn't expect us to respond like we
did. | 1:09:19 | 1:09:25 | |
Leg-spinner Mason Crane will miss
England's Test tour of New Zealand, | 1:09:27 | 1:09:30 | |
which starts on Thursday. | 1:09:30 | 1:09:31 | |
He has a stress fracture
in his lower back and will be | 1:09:31 | 1:09:34 | |
flying home for treatment,
with Somerset spinner Jack Leach | 1:09:34 | 1:09:36 | |
earning his first call
up in place of Crane. | 1:09:36 | 1:09:40 | |
England had a good day
in the field overnight. | 1:09:40 | 1:09:42 | |
Their bowlers took 13
wickets on the opening day | 1:09:42 | 1:09:44 | |
of their second warm-up match
against a New Zealand XI. | 1:09:44 | 1:09:47 | |
The tourists chose to stay
in the field all day for bowling | 1:09:47 | 1:09:50 | |
practice ahead of the first Test
and James Anderson is happy | 1:09:50 | 1:09:52 | |
with his side's efforts. | 1:09:52 | 1:09:53 | |
Today felt like a Test match
intensity out there. I thought all | 1:09:53 | 1:09:59 | |
the bowlers bowled with that
intensity. We threw ourselves around | 1:09:59 | 1:10:02 | |
in the field for me had the
opportunity. That's as much as we | 1:10:02 | 1:10:06 | |
can do. It's a short turnaround on
this tour so that's as much as we | 1:10:06 | 1:10:10 | |
can do. We have to use the next few
days wisely. Boulders potentially | 1:10:10 | 1:10:15 | |
bowling another spell in the nets
tomorrow while we are batting. And | 1:10:15 | 1:10:19 | |
then we have a couple of days in
Auckland to get ourselves up for the | 1:10:19 | 1:10:24 | |
first test. The Cheltenham Festival
comes to a to date with the biggest | 1:10:24 | 1:10:28 | |
prize, the Gold cup. Incredibly,
it's a race to be very successful | 1:10:28 | 1:10:32 | |
trainer Willie Mullins has never
won. He goes this afternoon with | 1:10:32 | 1:10:38 | |
Djakadam. He has trained well this
afternoon, has had a couple of | 1:10:38 | 1:10:41 | |
winners already this week, including
Penhill yesterday. Rival trainer | 1:10:41 | 1:10:46 | |
Nicky Henderson is also sending out
a horse and rider. Lots of you | 1:10:46 | 1:10:57 | |
getting in touch with us this
morning about a conversation on | 1:10:57 | 1:11:00 | |
exclusion that we had before the
news. | 1:11:00 | 1:11:02 | |
A couple of teachers getting in
touch, Constance, a retired teacher | 1:11:02 | 1:11:07 | |
says on e-mail, the rising number of
children being excluded from school, | 1:11:07 | 1:11:10 | |
especially in a primary sector is
due to the fact the national | 1:11:10 | 1:11:14 | |
curriculum is so directed towards
results and a one size fits all that | 1:11:14 | 1:11:19 | |
many children feel frustrated, react
in ways that are not appropriate in | 1:11:19 | 1:11:22 | |
the classroom. It's not the fault of
the children. Education is about the | 1:11:22 | 1:11:27 | |
individual child and the curriculum
should meet their needs. Richard is | 1:11:27 | 1:11:29 | |
also a teacher and says, as a
teacher I am completely enraged by | 1:11:29 | 1:11:34 | |
this discussion. We work
ridiculously hard to support all the | 1:11:34 | 1:11:37 | |
children in our classrooms. We are
well aware that many children have | 1:11:37 | 1:11:41 | |
difficulties at home and
emotionally. We support these | 1:11:41 | 1:11:44 | |
children in class and do all we can.
We need to remember that we are | 1:11:44 | 1:11:48 | |
judged by the government. If one
child is throwing things around the | 1:11:48 | 1:11:52 | |
classroom and is a risk to his or
her peers physically then without | 1:11:52 | 1:11:55 | |
the money to employ more staff to
support them, what are we supposed | 1:11:55 | 1:12:02 | |
to do? Thank you for getting in
touch and sharing your experiences. | 1:12:02 | 1:12:04 | |
Has your child being excluded, or
does your child go to a school where | 1:12:04 | 1:12:07 | |
others have been excluded? Get in
touch. | 1:12:07 | 1:12:11 | |
The Labour leader, Jeremy Corbyn,
has used a newspaper | 1:12:11 | 1:12:13 | |
article to again question
whether Russia was responsible | 1:12:13 | 1:12:15 | |
for the nerve agent
attack in Salisbury. | 1:12:15 | 1:12:17 | |
Writing in the Guardian,
he said the government must | 1:12:17 | 1:12:19 | |
avoid "hasty judgments". | 1:12:19 | 1:12:22 | |
The US, Germany, France and now
Australia have backed the UK's | 1:12:22 | 1:12:26 | |
conclusion that Russia carried out
the attack on the former double | 1:12:26 | 1:12:34 | |
agent Sergei Skripal
and his daughter Yulia. | 1:12:35 | 1:12:38 | |
Earlier this month. | 1:12:38 | 1:12:41 | |
Russia's Foreign Minister,
Sergei Lavrov, said British | 1:12:41 | 1:12:45 | |
diplomats will be expelled
in response to the expulsion | 1:12:45 | 1:12:47 | |
of Russian intelligence officers
brought about by the poisoning | 1:12:47 | 1:12:49 | |
of a former spy in Salisbury. | 1:12:49 | 1:12:50 | |
Will other countries back their
words of support for Theresa May | 1:12:50 | 1:12:53 | |
with actions against Russia? | 1:12:53 | 1:12:58 | |
Let's speak now to Paul Knott - | 1:12:58 | 1:13:00 | |
a former diplomat who worked
on the Litvinenko case and author | 1:13:00 | 1:13:03 | |
of 'The Accidental Diplomat'. | 1:13:03 | 1:13:07 | |
Radek Sikorski -
former Polish Foreign Minister | 1:13:07 | 1:13:10 | |
and to Amelia Hadfield - | 1:13:10 | 1:13:11 | |
Professor of European
and International Relations | 1:13:11 | 1:13:13 | |
at Canterbury University. | 1:13:13 | 1:13:16 | |
Paul, let me begin with you, let's
talk about the response from Russia | 1:13:16 | 1:13:20 | |
and the tit-for-tat that was very
much expected. Do you expect them to | 1:13:20 | 1:13:24 | |
go further than just expelling
diplomats? As far as we know, | 1:13:24 | 1:13:29 | |
probably not at this stage. I think
they will probably do that and then | 1:13:29 | 1:13:34 | |
wait to see what we do next with our
allies before they take further | 1:13:34 | 1:13:37 | |
steps. But clearly they are in a
very aggressive mode. So anything is | 1:13:37 | 1:13:44 | |
possible right now. Do you think
this is likely to escalate between | 1:13:44 | 1:13:48 | |
Britain and Russia? We have had talk
of another Cold War. Sometimes I | 1:13:48 | 1:13:54 | |
think we need to think about the
relationship with Russia. There is | 1:13:54 | 1:13:59 | |
this one awful incident in Britain
on the back of previous ones as | 1:13:59 | 1:14:04 | |
well. I think we are seeing our
allies kind of rallying to our side | 1:14:04 | 1:14:11 | |
because things have happened in
their countries as well, and | 1:14:11 | 1:14:14 | |
everyone is well aware of the danger
Russia poses now. I think it's quite | 1:14:14 | 1:14:20 | |
possible that we are going to end up
heading towards a situation that's a | 1:14:20 | 1:14:25 | |
little bit reminiscent of the Cold
War, where Russia becomes a country | 1:14:25 | 1:14:31 | |
that we need to find ways to work
with, where we have to do, to try | 1:14:31 | 1:14:35 | |
and keep the peace in the world as
much as we can. But also that it | 1:14:35 | 1:14:43 | |
becomes a country that needs to be
contained and deterred, as was the | 1:14:43 | 1:14:47 | |
case in the Cold War. Do you think
the response has been proportionate, | 1:14:47 | 1:14:53 | |
both from Theresa May and the
Russians, Radek. Diplomatic | 1:14:53 | 1:14:59 | |
expulsions are standard fare. Nobody
in the Kremlin will be impressed by | 1:14:59 | 1:15:02 | |
that. What they would be impressed
by is the fact that London being the | 1:15:02 | 1:15:08 | |
European capital of Russian
money-laundering, if the British | 1:15:08 | 1:15:13 | |
authorities imposed the kinds of
targeted sanctions that other | 1:15:13 | 1:15:17 | |
countries have adopted under the
Magnitsky Act, the exclusion of | 1:15:17 | 1:15:20 | |
these bands, and asset freezes on
people who either break human rights | 1:15:20 | 1:15:29 | |
or are engaged in large-scale
corruption, they would notice this. | 1:15:29 | 1:15:33 | |
-- Visa bans. Is that likely in the
light of Brexit and Russian money | 1:15:33 | 1:15:43 | |
needed in the UK? Putin has gambled
that Theresa May will not do it. If | 1:15:43 | 1:15:47 | |
there is a choice between the London
business model and national | 1:15:47 | 1:15:51 | |
security, the London and the city
will Trump it. And therefore the | 1:15:51 | 1:15:54 | |
response will be muted, just as
after the Litvinenko case. Amelia, | 1:15:54 | 1:15:58 | |
is that what you think, that Russia
and Putin see Britain as weak and | 1:15:58 | 1:16:02 | |
not going to do a lot about this? | 1:16:02 | 1:16:04 | |
It's always interesting with regard
to the timing of these issues. I | 1:16:09 | 1:16:13 | |
know that Brexit is a variable in
the Putin mindset, let's also | 1:16:13 | 1:16:19 | |
remember there is a Russian election
coming up this weekend so there are | 1:16:19 | 1:16:24 | |
domestic factors and National
factors as well. I would have to | 1:16:24 | 1:16:28 | |
agree with Radek, it's the standard
tit for tat but the idea of adopting | 1:16:28 | 1:16:39 | |
Magnitsky style sanctions would up
the aunty and as Jeremy Corbyn made | 1:16:39 | 1:16:46 | |
clear in his article in the
Guardian, a much wider crackdown on | 1:16:46 | 1:16:49 | |
money laundering. Going through the
House of Commons at this point, I | 1:16:49 | 1:16:55 | |
think on its third reading. The
sanctions and anti-money-laundering | 1:16:55 | 1:17:01 | |
bill. It hasn't been picked up in
the media whole lot. Some of those | 1:17:01 | 1:17:11 | |
sanctions can be utilised in this
instance. Financial sanctions, but | 1:17:11 | 1:17:20 | |
also immigration sanctions, trade
sanctions, and even ones that | 1:17:20 | 1:17:22 | |
dovetail with a variety of other
sanctions for the purpose of UN | 1:17:22 | 1:17:27 | |
obligations so | 1:17:27 | 1:17:36 | |
obligations so although... If you
have to make a move with regards to | 1:17:37 | 1:17:40 | |
diplomacy and foreign policy in
general, make it for the right | 1:17:40 | 1:17:45 | |
reasons. Paul, let's talk about the
timing because there is the Russian | 1:17:45 | 1:17:50 | |
presidential election this weekend.
Do you get a sense having worked in | 1:17:50 | 1:17:54 | |
Moscow that this is about President
Putin flexing his muscles | 1:17:54 | 1:18:00 | |
dramatically cutting we can still go
to Britain and attempt to kill | 1:18:00 | 1:18:03 | |
people on their soil, and leave a
nerve agent with a Russian stamp on | 1:18:03 | 1:18:08 | |
it? Yes, I think it is part of a
pattern of the way Putin and his | 1:18:08 | 1:18:14 | |
regime have been behaving for
several years now, he's gone very | 1:18:14 | 1:18:20 | |
strongly into... They have had
economic problems, he has been there | 1:18:20 | 1:18:24 | |
a long time, questions over
legitimacy so he's focused very hard | 1:18:24 | 1:18:29 | |
on taking actions that can be
portrayed as rebuilding Russia is a | 1:18:29 | 1:18:34 | |
great power in the world.
Unfortunately they have done it in a | 1:18:34 | 1:18:39 | |
highly destructive manner that has
cost lots of people their lives and | 1:18:39 | 1:18:43 | |
created a great degree of turbulence
in the world. But yes, I think there | 1:18:43 | 1:18:49 | |
is certainly a strong element of the
path he is pursuing to stir up | 1:18:49 | 1:18:54 | |
nationalist feeling in Russia. Do
you feel the response from European | 1:18:54 | 1:19:00 | |
countries, from the European Union,
has been strong enough to stand | 1:19:00 | 1:19:04 | |
shoulder to shoulder with Britain?
The president of the European | 1:19:04 | 1:19:08 | |
Council made a quick and powerful
statement and allies have rallied | 1:19:08 | 1:19:11 | |
round but the Russians see us as
weak hypocrites and they will look | 1:19:11 | 1:19:17 | |
not to what we say but what we do.
That remains to be seen. So do you | 1:19:17 | 1:19:24 | |
think that, I mean one of the things
that has been raised today is | 1:19:24 | 1:19:28 | |
whether European countries will be
good on their word. It is all very | 1:19:28 | 1:19:32 | |
well signing a statement and saying
we support Theresa May, but do you | 1:19:32 | 1:19:36 | |
think any of them will take action?
The action should be the sort of | 1:19:36 | 1:19:41 | |
thing that will be effective, and
what would be effective would be to | 1:19:41 | 1:19:45 | |
address the Russian elites' way of
life which is to steal money from | 1:19:45 | 1:19:51 | |
the people of Russia and then secure
it and enjoy it in the west. We can | 1:19:51 | 1:19:57 | |
do something about it but it is
London that is the European capital | 1:19:57 | 1:20:01 | |
of this is so uniquely Britain can
take the lead on this issue. Let's | 1:20:01 | 1:20:06 | |
talk about gas supplies because that
is also one issue that is being | 1:20:06 | 1:20:10 | |
raised by the tabloid media in
recent days, about the reliance by | 1:20:10 | 1:20:14 | |
the UK and Britain on Russian gas
supplies. How worried should we be | 1:20:14 | 1:20:20 | |
about the gas being switched off?
Not too worried, Britain is not too | 1:20:20 | 1:20:26 | |
reliant on Russian gas, it is a lot
more the European countries. More | 1:20:26 | 1:20:32 | |
interestingly, I think with regards
to gas stoppages, the signal they | 1:20:32 | 1:20:36 | |
sent from Russia and again it is not
simply the words that emanate in | 1:20:36 | 1:20:41 | |
terms of a crisis like this, it is
very much reactions as Radek said | 1:20:41 | 1:20:47 | |
and Russian it is able to use
different types of foreign policy | 1:20:47 | 1:20:53 | |
tools, gas stoppages being one of
them. We have seen in the last | 1:20:53 | 1:20:57 | |
decade a range of things moving on
beyond that. We have seen the use of | 1:20:57 | 1:21:04 | |
food embargo is with the Baltics,
forms of interference with the | 1:21:04 | 1:21:09 | |
Balkans, cyber attacks on the UK and
on the German parliament, and also | 1:21:09 | 1:21:14 | |
the rapacious use of fake news and
unqualified media attacks as well, | 1:21:14 | 1:21:19 | |
and meddling in the US. To return to
the energy issue, the most recent | 1:21:19 | 1:21:24 | |
supposed attack has been the cyber
assault on the American energy grid | 1:21:24 | 1:21:28 | |
and aspects of the American
strategic structures there and that | 1:21:28 | 1:21:33 | |
is the reason for the American
ratcheting up if you like on their | 1:21:33 | 1:21:38 | |
particular sanctions. So there's a
whole range of different types of | 1:21:38 | 1:21:43 | |
interference flowing from Russia at
this point and I think if America | 1:21:43 | 1:21:47 | |
and the UK wants to move back, they
are going to have to come up with | 1:21:47 | 1:21:51 | |
some very action -based response
perhaps, and this was suggested in | 1:21:51 | 1:21:55 | |
the last couple of days by a variety
of members of Parliament, that UK | 1:21:55 | 1:22:00 | |
cyber attacks on Russia could be
suggested. Forgive me for jumping | 1:22:00 | 1:22:05 | |
in, I just want to get a view from
Paul on where you think we are in a | 1:22:05 | 1:22:11 | |
scale, if you like, of our relations
with Russia, if we look historically | 1:22:11 | 1:22:16 | |
how bad and good they have been,
where do we sit on the scale right | 1:22:16 | 1:22:19 | |
now? It is pretty bad, certainly as
bad again as it was at the time of | 1:22:19 | 1:22:25 | |
the nuclear material attack on
Alexander Litvinenko. It is as bad | 1:22:25 | 1:22:34 | |
as it has been for decades.
Sometimes there is a little bit | 1:22:34 | 1:22:40 | |
of... You don't have good relations
for the sake of it. Sometimes poor | 1:22:40 | 1:22:46 | |
relations, bad relations are what
you need to have with the country or | 1:22:46 | 1:22:50 | |
a regime that is behaving in this
appalling way all over the world. | 1:22:50 | 1:22:59 | |
Thank you for taking the time out to
speak to us this morning, I'm very | 1:22:59 | 1:23:03 | |
grateful to you. | 1:23:03 | 1:23:13 | |
Topman has been forced to stop
selling this T-shirt - | 1:23:17 | 1:23:19 | |
after relatives of those killed
in the Hillsborough disaster said | 1:23:19 | 1:23:22 | |
it was disrespectful to the 96
Liverpool fans who died. | 1:23:22 | 1:23:24 | |
The store has apologised for any
offence caused and says | 1:23:24 | 1:23:30 | |
the wording on the shirt,
which reads "what goes around comes | 1:23:30 | 1:23:35 | |
back around" was a reference
to a Bob Marley song. | 1:23:35 | 1:23:40 | |
I'm joined in the studio
by our correspondent Sarah Corker, | 1:23:40 | 1:23:42 | |
and via webcam by Lou Brookes,
whose brother Andrew | 1:23:42 | 1:23:44 | |
died at Hillsborough. | 1:23:44 | 1:23:45 | |
He was 26 years old. | 1:23:45 | 1:23:48 | |
We have seen the shirt but just
explain why many Liverpool fans are | 1:23:48 | 1:23:55 | |
deeply insulted by this. It is a red
shirt with the words calm down one | 1:23:55 | 1:24:01 | |
side, on the back the big 96, rose,
and the words "What goes round comes | 1:24:01 | 1:24:08 | |
back around". It was on sale for
£20, and as top man said it was a | 1:24:08 | 1:24:13 | |
reference to the bot Marley song
released in 1996 but since the shirt | 1:24:13 | 1:24:19 | |
was spotted online by fans on
Thursday there has been a strong | 1:24:19 | 1:24:22 | |
reaction. They described it as sick
and offensive because they think it | 1:24:22 | 1:24:27 | |
is an inadvertent reference to the
Hillsborough disaster when 96 fans | 1:24:27 | 1:24:32 | |
died. The red is the colour of
Liverpool football club, the rose | 1:24:32 | 1:24:37 | |
motif appears on the Hillsborough
Memorial and the shirt has been | 1:24:37 | 1:24:44 | |
withdrawn. Topman as saying it is
about Bob Marley song, but football | 1:24:44 | 1:24:51 | |
fans are saying how did this ever
get through? We have had a statement | 1:24:51 | 1:24:56 | |
the last half-hour from Topman
saying "Topman apologises | 1:24:56 | 1:25:02 | |
unreservedly for any offence caused
by this T-shirt. The design was | 1:25:02 | 1:25:05 | |
inspired by a Bob Marley tracks with
the number referring to the year of | 1:25:05 | 1:25:10 | |
the rerelease. The garment has been
removed from sale online and in | 1:25:10 | 1:25:14 | |
stores" | 1:25:14 | 1:25:14 | |
removed from sale online and in
stores". But the big question is how | 1:25:14 | 1:25:20 | |
did anyone in the design team not
see the connection? How on earth it | 1:25:20 | 1:25:24 | |
got through, those are the questions
Topman will be asking. We have had a | 1:25:24 | 1:25:29 | |
lot of reaction online, we have
heard from the MP for Wirral South | 1:25:29 | 1:25:34 | |
who took to Twitter to express her
concern. "No Idea what was behind | 1:25:34 | 1:25:39 | |
this but it is very unfortunate.
Hope Topman discontinue the shirt as | 1:25:39 | 1:25:44 | |
soon as possible, and they have
acted quickly". Thank you, let's | 1:25:44 | 1:25:51 | |
speak to Lou, thank you for taking
time out to speak to us this | 1:25:51 | 1:25:57 | |
morning. What did you think when you
saw this shirt? First I just want to | 1:25:57 | 1:26:03 | |
make it crystal clear that it is not
just Liverpool fans and bereaved | 1:26:03 | 1:26:10 | |
families and survivors over
reacting, this was actually brought | 1:26:10 | 1:26:16 | |
to light by a member of the public
who has no emotional ties to | 1:26:16 | 1:26:22 | |
Hillsborough whatsoever. So it is
obviously not just us Hillsborough | 1:26:22 | 1:26:27 | |
families and the survivors and
Liverpool fans who are connecting | 1:26:27 | 1:26:32 | |
the dots shall we say. But going
back to your question, initially | 1:26:32 | 1:26:37 | |
when I was sent the photograph last
night, I did gasp and I thought here | 1:26:37 | 1:26:43 | |
we go again, it is four weeks away
from the 29th anniversary and it | 1:26:43 | 1:26:48 | |
just brought back memories of the
guy who wore the T-shirt about two | 1:26:48 | 1:26:54 | |
years ago, you know. And initially
then I started seeing comments | 1:26:54 | 1:26:57 | |
about, well, is a brand so I googled
it, and all I could find was a | 1:26:57 | 1:27:07 | |
women's brand, nothing to do with
Topman. Then I thought, it is in | 1:27:07 | 1:27:13 | |
red, why not another colour. But it
is the rose for me because the rose | 1:27:13 | 1:27:17 | |
is very significant to Hillsborough.
I just thought, and if you notice | 1:27:17 | 1:27:23 | |
the wording of the Bob Marley song
isn't the same wording as actually | 1:27:23 | 1:27:27 | |
what is on the T-shirt. Do you think
this is an oversight and Topman have | 1:27:27 | 1:27:35 | |
made a mistake or are you suggesting
this is something more vindictive? I | 1:27:35 | 1:27:42 | |
personally think, I mean I did try
to take a step back and try to be | 1:27:42 | 1:27:46 | |
rational about it, but I just think
there's too many coincidences and | 1:27:46 | 1:27:51 | |
also why didn't they put 1996 on the
shirt? Why 96? And I think it is | 1:27:51 | 1:28:02 | |
quite interesting of the timing. We
are four weeks away from the 29th | 1:28:02 | 1:28:08 | |
anniversary. Don't forget as well,'s
families and survivors, for 29 years | 1:28:08 | 1:28:14 | |
old we have | 1:28:14 | 1:28:21 | |
old we have heard is Hillsborough is
God's way of punishing the Liverpool | 1:28:21 | 1:28:25 | |
fans for Hysen. That's what hurts so
much and that's why I do believe | 1:28:25 | 1:28:32 | |
this T-shirt is definitely connected
and referenced to Hillsborough. Let | 1:28:32 | 1:28:41 | |
me read you some comments. Tom on
Twitter says not exactly a retail | 1:28:41 | 1:28:47 | |
masterstroke by Topman, if there are
any references to any tragedy it is | 1:28:47 | 1:28:51 | |
best for all concerned to even them.
Also, "To profit from a disaster is | 1:28:51 | 1:29:00 | |
horrendous, who in the company
approved this design?" Steve | 1:29:00 | 1:29:05 | |
Sweeting, "Massive oversight, it's
possible those who signed it off | 1:29:05 | 1:29:09 | |
didn't have any knowledge on this
but Hillsborough is the first thing | 1:29:09 | 1:29:12 | |
I thought of when I saw it." Sorry
to interrupt but the point I'm | 1:29:12 | 1:29:18 | |
making is it is the general public
who have raised this issue and my | 1:29:18 | 1:29:25 | |
mum was the same when she was alive,
Louise, when everyone is saying the | 1:29:25 | 1:29:31 | |
same thing everyone cannot be wrong
and that's when you need to listen | 1:29:31 | 1:29:34 | |
to what everyone is saying. When the
general public, who have no | 1:29:34 | 1:29:39 | |
emotional ties or connections to
Hillsborough are raising this and | 1:29:39 | 1:29:43 | |
complaining, and bringing the issue
to survivors and bereaved family | 1:29:43 | 1:29:49 | |
members, 1.I would like to make
before you go is some of us families | 1:29:49 | 1:29:55 | |
are really struggling at the moment.
Some of us suffer with anxiety, | 1:29:55 | 1:30:00 | |
panic attacks, depression, and some
of us are struggling more since | 1:30:00 | 1:30:07 | |
verdict day. When we wake up each
day and see things like this, | 1:30:07 | 1:30:11 | |
especially around an anniversary, it
really hurts. A 96 and the survivors | 1:30:11 | 1:30:19 | |
did nothing wrong that day and I am
fed up to the back teeth of our 96 | 1:30:19 | 1:30:25 | |
being used to score points off the
field. Keep your score pointing on | 1:30:25 | 1:30:31 | |
the pitch and not off it. These are
innocent people, we are human | 1:30:31 | 1:30:38 | |
beings, we feel, we have never done
anything wrong to anybody. And we | 1:30:38 | 1:30:43 | |
can hear from the passion in your
voice absolutely, you put it so | 1:30:43 | 1:30:46 | |
eloquently so thank you for speaking
to us today. It is worth reiterating | 1:30:46 | 1:30:53 | |
that Topman is saying this was
inspired by a Bob Marley track. | 1:30:53 | 1:30:58 | |
Time for the latest news. | 1:30:58 | 1:31:00 | |
Here's Reeta with the BBC
News headlines this morning. | 1:31:00 | 1:31:03 | |
Officials in Florida say six
people have been killed | 1:31:03 | 1:31:06 | |
by a footbridge which collapsed
onto a busy road in Miami. | 1:31:06 | 1:31:08 | |
Eight vehicles were crushed
when the walkway gave way, less | 1:31:08 | 1:31:11 | |
than a week after being installed. | 1:31:11 | 1:31:12 | |
The bridge at Florida
International University | 1:31:12 | 1:31:14 | |
was put up in one day,
using a technique designed | 1:31:14 | 1:31:16 | |
to minimise traffic disruption. | 1:31:16 | 1:31:18 | |
Police say rescue teams
will work throughout the day | 1:31:18 | 1:31:20 | |
to search for survivors,
but the number of dead | 1:31:20 | 1:31:22 | |
is likely to rise. | 1:31:22 | 1:31:29 | |
Russia's foreign
minister, Sergei Lavrov, | 1:31:29 | 1:31:30 | |
has confirmed Moscow will expel
British diplomats. | 1:31:30 | 1:31:32 | |
The move follows Theresa May's
expulsion of 23 staff | 1:31:32 | 1:31:34 | |
from the Russian embassy in London,
over the nerve agent | 1:31:34 | 1:31:37 | |
attack in Salisbury. | 1:31:37 | 1:31:38 | |
Jeremy Corbyn has again questioned
Russia's involvement | 1:31:38 | 1:31:39 | |
in the poisoning of the former spy,
Sergei Skripal, and | 1:31:39 | 1:31:42 | |
his daughter Julia. | 1:31:42 | 1:31:45 | |
his daughter Yulia. | 1:31:45 | 1:31:48 | |
One in four council-run
secondary schools in England | 1:31:48 | 1:31:50 | |
is running at a loss,
according to new research | 1:31:50 | 1:31:52 | |
by the Education Policy Institute. | 1:31:52 | 1:31:53 | |
The proportion of schools
in deficit has nearly trebled | 1:31:53 | 1:31:56 | |
in the last four years. | 1:31:56 | 1:31:57 | |
The government says it doesn't
recognise the report's findings, | 1:31:57 | 1:32:01 | |
and is putting an extra
£1.3 billion into schools. | 1:32:01 | 1:32:06 | |
Syrian activists say nearly 20,000
civilians left the rebel enclave of | 1:32:06 | 1:32:10 | |
Eastern Ghouta yesterday in the
biggest displacement of people since | 1:32:10 | 1:32:14 | |
government forces intensified their
assault last month. | 1:32:14 | 1:32:20 | |
The British-based Syrian Observatory
for Human Rights says | 1:32:20 | 1:32:22 | |
the exodus stopped when rebels
launched a counter-attack. | 1:32:22 | 1:32:27 | |
Egypt is to send a delegation
of MPs to the UK, | 1:32:27 | 1:32:29 | |
following the death of an Egyptian
student in Nottingham. | 1:32:29 | 1:32:32 | |
18-year-old Mariam Moustafa
died on Wednesday, | 1:32:32 | 1:32:33 | |
nearly a month after being attacked
in the city centre. | 1:32:33 | 1:32:35 | |
The hashtag "Mariam's rights
will not be lost" has | 1:32:35 | 1:32:38 | |
been trending in Egypt. | 1:32:38 | 1:32:39 | |
That's a summary of
the latest BBC News. | 1:32:39 | 1:32:41 | |
Sport now with Will. | 1:32:41 | 1:32:42 | |
Great Britain's snowboarders have
all missed out on medals | 1:32:42 | 1:32:44 | |
in their Winter Paralympic
banked slalom events. | 1:32:44 | 1:32:49 | |
Another day to forget for Owen Pick,
as well as Ben Moore | 1:32:49 | 1:32:51 | |
and James Barnes-Miller. | 1:32:51 | 1:32:53 | |
Paralympics GB have five
medals in Pyeongchang, | 1:32:53 | 1:33:01 | |
behind the UK Sport target of 6-12
with just 2 days left. | 1:33:02 | 1:33:05 | |
Arsenal will find out this morning
who they'll play in the quarter | 1:33:05 | 1:33:08 | |
finals of the Eurpa League. | 1:33:08 | 1:33:09 | |
Danny Welbwck scored twice last
night as they beat AC Milan | 1:33:09 | 1:33:12 | |
3-1, 5-1 on aggregate. | 1:33:12 | 1:33:13 | |
Leg-spinner Mason Crane will miss
England's Test tour of New Zealand | 1:33:13 | 1:33:15 | |
because of a back injury. | 1:33:15 | 1:33:17 | |
He's been replaced by
Somerset's Jack Leach. | 1:33:17 | 1:33:18 | |
The two-Test series begins
in Auckland next Thursday. | 1:33:18 | 1:33:20 | |
The Cheltenham Festival
comes to a close today, | 1:33:20 | 1:33:22 | |
with the biggest prize -
the Gold Cup. | 1:33:22 | 1:33:24 | |
It's a race the hugely successful
trainer Willie Mullins has never won | 1:33:24 | 1:33:32 | |
Djakadam | 1:33:33 | 1:33:33 | |
he'll try again this
afternoon with Djakadum. | 1:33:33 | 1:33:35 | |
His rival trainer Nicky Henderson
sends out Might Bite. | 1:33:35 | 1:33:40 | |
One of the nation's favourite soaps
Coronation Street will tonight | 1:33:40 | 1:33:43 | |
broadcast the start of a major
storyline focusing on male rape. | 1:33:43 | 1:33:45 | |
The plot will see the character
David Platt raped by male mechanic | 1:33:45 | 1:33:48 | |
and personal trainer Josh Tucker. | 1:33:48 | 1:33:49 | |
In the coming weeks the soap
will chart the characters struggle | 1:33:49 | 1:33:52 | |
in the aftermath of the attack. | 1:33:52 | 1:33:54 | |
This is a clip from
tonight's episode. | 1:33:54 | 1:33:56 | |
Two peas in a pod, you and me. | 1:33:56 | 1:34:02 | |
My mum, she always used to refer
to her fellas as my uncles. | 1:34:02 | 1:34:05 | |
Mmm. | 1:34:05 | 1:34:06 | |
Yeah, my Gran was just as bad,
apparently, in her day. | 1:34:06 | 1:34:09 | |
Mmm. | 1:34:09 | 1:34:10 | |
But... | 1:34:10 | 1:34:13 | |
Now they're just two
born-again prudes. | 1:34:13 | 1:34:16 | |
I think we should
have a toast, actually. | 1:34:16 | 1:34:20 | |
To all the uncles in the world. | 1:34:20 | 1:34:22 | |
To uncles. | 1:34:22 | 1:34:30 | |
Right.
I'm going to go for a wazz. | 1:34:33 | 1:34:41 | |
Let's talk now to one survivor
of male rape, Alexander Morgan. | 1:35:19 | 1:35:22 | |
He was raped twice. | 1:35:22 | 1:35:23 | |
And Kate Oates - Coronation Street's
producer - who joins | 1:35:23 | 1:35:26 | |
us from Manchester. | 1:35:26 | 1:35:28 | |
thank you for coming in. Did you
feel in the aftermath of the times | 1:35:28 | 1:35:36 | |
you were raped that you were able to
talk to people about it? I think the | 1:35:36 | 1:35:40 | |
first emotion I felt was that I
froze. So I couldn't really come to | 1:35:40 | 1:35:47 | |
terms with what happened. The first
instance it happened, I was walking | 1:35:47 | 1:35:52 | |
home and the attack happened. When I
got back, the first thing I wanted | 1:35:52 | 1:35:56 | |
to do was clean myself up. I
couldn't bring myself to talk about | 1:35:56 | 1:35:59 | |
or even think about what happened. I
kept it inside like that for years. | 1:35:59 | 1:36:06 | |
A second attack happened when I was
20, I was at university, at a bar in | 1:36:06 | 1:36:14 | |
Soho and I was followed into a
toilet. That's when the other attack | 1:36:14 | 1:36:17 | |
happened. It took another three
months after that to even start | 1:36:17 | 1:36:22 | |
acknowledging what happened to me,
let alone start talking about it or | 1:36:22 | 1:36:29 | |
start to seek help. What did that do
to you inside, your emotions and | 1:36:29 | 1:36:33 | |
your ability to function? You become
very cold. Not very respected to | 1:36:33 | 1:36:40 | |
emotions and feelings, you just try
to move on as much as possible. Try | 1:36:40 | 1:36:44 | |
to literally forget what happened to
you. There is a lot of feeling of | 1:36:44 | 1:36:50 | |
shame, that you let somebody get the
better of you, that you let somebody | 1:36:50 | 1:36:54 | |
do that to you. Is that linked to
being a man? Yes, I think so. I | 1:36:54 | 1:37:01 | |
think there is a stigma in society
about how masculinity should become | 1:37:01 | 1:37:06 | |
a man should be powerful, he should
be able to provide and protect | 1:37:06 | 1:37:10 | |
himself. The fact you couldn't
protect yourself in that moment, and | 1:37:10 | 1:37:15 | |
you let somebody get the better of
you, let somebody do that to you, I | 1:37:15 | 1:37:22 | |
believe that attacks what society
thinks is masculinity. And being a | 1:37:22 | 1:37:28 | |
man. Therefore people don't like to
talk about it or seek help. What | 1:37:28 | 1:37:32 | |
prompted you to tell people to seek
help? After the second attack, about | 1:37:32 | 1:37:38 | |
three months later, I let it get in
the way of a relationship, and that | 1:37:38 | 1:37:43 | |
led me to slip into mental health
issues. I first sought help for the | 1:37:43 | 1:37:48 | |
mental health issue, I was diagnosed
with depression and through the | 1:37:48 | 1:37:52 | |
counselling that followed I was able
to start opening up about what had | 1:37:52 | 1:37:55 | |
happened and the other events in my
past. That's when I could start | 1:37:55 | 1:38:01 | |
talking to family members and things
like that. But then it was actually | 1:38:01 | 1:38:05 | |
when I told my mum that I started
being more proactive about it. My | 1:38:05 | 1:38:13 | |
mum came to me in the kitchen two
months after I told her in an | 1:38:13 | 1:38:18 | |
e-mail, because I couldn't tell her
face-to-face. I told my whole family | 1:38:18 | 1:38:22 | |
in an e-mail. It took awhile for her
to process that. She came up to me | 1:38:22 | 1:38:26 | |
in the kitchen and said an amazing
line-up stuck to me, and she said, | 1:38:26 | 1:38:30 | |
what happened to you was awful, but
go out there and stop it happening | 1:38:30 | 1:38:36 | |
to somebody else. That gave me the
right click to be a bit more | 1:38:36 | 1:38:39 | |
proactive about it. In my head I was
very much thinking, I thought I was | 1:38:39 | 1:38:45 | |
a victim, and then I became a
survivor. I wanted to go out there | 1:38:45 | 1:38:49 | |
and do something about it, which led
me to founding my charity. Bringing | 1:38:49 | 1:38:54 | |
in Kate now, listening to
Alexander's situation, presumably | 1:38:54 | 1:38:59 | |
you have heard many stories like
this. Why was it important for | 1:38:59 | 1:39:03 | |
Coronation Street to tackle this
head on? Listing to Alex's story | 1:39:03 | 1:39:07 | |
echoes a lot of what we heard
through the charity Survivors of | 1:39:07 | 1:39:12 | |
Manchester who we have been working
with. Alex, to hear your story, it | 1:39:12 | 1:39:17 | |
was so brave and brilliant for you
to come forward and turn your | 1:39:17 | 1:39:20 | |
experience around. We are trying to
encourage other survivors to do that | 1:39:20 | 1:39:24 | |
with this story. One in ten rapes on
-- in this country will be of a male | 1:39:24 | 1:39:33 | |
victim, and they don't talk about it
and we want them to change that. | 1:39:33 | 1:39:37 | |
This is for men all across the
country, who might have a view, as | 1:39:37 | 1:39:41 | |
Alexander talked about some of a
certain type of masculinity, and | 1:39:41 | 1:39:44 | |
encouraging them to open up. It's
really key, the perception of | 1:39:44 | 1:39:49 | |
masculinity is really key to the
story and the experience. What we | 1:39:49 | 1:39:53 | |
have learned through research is
that men take in excess of 25 years | 1:39:53 | 1:39:57 | |
to talk about abuse that has
happened to them. Alex was talking | 1:39:57 | 1:40:01 | |
about three months there, which is
phenomenal. A lot of people take a | 1:40:01 | 1:40:05 | |
lot longer. On the Victoria
Derbyshire show, I have spoke to | 1:40:05 | 1:40:10 | |
Victoria before, and you have raised
the issue of historic abuse with | 1:40:10 | 1:40:15 | |
footballers, and charities then
experienced a huge surge in calls | 1:40:15 | 1:40:19 | |
from people wanting to disclose and
ask for help. We are trying to | 1:40:19 | 1:40:23 | |
condense that time, because there
are people available to listen and | 1:40:23 | 1:40:28 | |
give help. We need to dispel the
myths of masculinity, because what | 1:40:28 | 1:40:31 | |
is important is coming through
stronger. How important is it for a | 1:40:31 | 1:40:36 | |
show like Coronation Street to take
on a male rape storyline in this | 1:40:36 | 1:40:40 | |
way? It's really important to start
these conversations. Especially with | 1:40:40 | 1:40:45 | |
something so prominent as Coronation
Street. It was reading stories | 1:40:45 | 1:40:51 | |
online from other survivors that
made me want to start talking about | 1:40:51 | 1:40:54 | |
it. Fair enough, it was there for
therapy, but it was other people, | 1:40:54 | 1:41:02 | |
seeing other survivors come forward
and say, this happened. I thought, | 1:41:02 | 1:41:06 | |
that happened to me too. Then
conversations start and people start | 1:41:06 | 1:41:11 | |
addressing what happened to them,
and starts to seek help in their own | 1:41:11 | 1:41:15 | |
way. Whether that's reporting to the
police or just speaking to family | 1:41:15 | 1:41:20 | |
members and friends, or approaching
services like Survivors UK and | 1:41:20 | 1:41:23 | |
Manchester. How much of
responsibility is this for | 1:41:23 | 1:41:28 | |
Coronation Street? You have to get
this right. It's a responsibility we | 1:41:28 | 1:41:34 | |
take seriously, whatever storyline
we approach. We work with charities, | 1:41:34 | 1:41:37 | |
we work with people who have lived
the experience, whatever the | 1:41:37 | 1:41:41 | |
storyline is. It's important for us
to get it right. Survivors | 1:41:41 | 1:41:45 | |
Manchester have been across all the
scripts. Duncan Craig has been | 1:41:45 | 1:41:49 | |
fantastic with that. We have worked
with other charities like the | 1:41:49 | 1:41:52 | |
Samaritans. The responsibility is
heavy on our shoulders but that's | 1:41:52 | 1:41:55 | |
good because we checked everything
we and we are as accurate as we can | 1:41:55 | 1:42:00 | |
possibly be. That's crucial.
Alexander, if somebody is watching | 1:42:00 | 1:42:04 | |
today and this is bringing back an
horrific event in life, what would | 1:42:04 | 1:42:08 | |
you say to them about coming
forward? What's the best to make | 1:42:08 | 1:42:12 | |
that first step? The best way to
make the first step is to realise | 1:42:12 | 1:42:18 | |
that, for example, going to the
police doesn't have to be the first | 1:42:18 | 1:42:21 | |
option. You can just start talking
about it to someone. That could be a | 1:42:21 | 1:42:27 | |
friend, family member. Or there are
plenty of services that are | 1:42:27 | 1:42:32 | |
anonymous, you can call helplines,
or even have a web chat. That's how | 1:42:32 | 1:42:36 | |
I started. As soon as you start the
conversation, you will start to feel | 1:42:36 | 1:42:41 | |
like a weight has been lifted off
your shoulder. Don't be put off by | 1:42:41 | 1:42:46 | |
thinking, they might not catch them,
or there might be evidence or you | 1:42:46 | 1:42:49 | |
might not be believed. There are
people out there who will believe | 1:42:49 | 1:42:53 | |
you. Services and the police are
very good at making sure there is | 1:42:53 | 1:42:56 | |
care out there. We have had a
comment coming in, it's good to see | 1:42:56 | 1:43:01 | |
Coronation Street tackle a male rape
storyline. Soaps covering issues | 1:43:01 | 1:43:04 | |
like this is really powerful. I
remember when Hollyoaks did a | 1:43:04 | 1:43:09 | |
similar storyline years ago with
Luke and I never forgot it. | 1:43:09 | 1:43:12 | |
Hopefully men will feel more able to
speak out. Alexander and Kate, thank | 1:43:12 | 1:43:16 | |
you for speaking to us today. If you
have been affected by these issues | 1:43:16 | 1:43:21 | |
and want help or advice, please
visit the BBC website. | 1:43:21 | 1:43:27 | |
If you've been affected
by any of these issues | 1:43:27 | 1:43:29 | |
and want help or advice,
please go to BBC.CO.UK/ACTION LINE. | 1:43:29 | 1:43:37 | |
BBC click has been looking into
dimension technology. -- new | 1:43:38 | 1:43:46 | |
dementia technology. | 1:43:46 | 1:43:52 | |
Next this morning, a top
advertising firm has been | 1:45:23 | 1:45:28 | |
forced to apologise to its staff
after a sexist email | 1:45:28 | 1:45:30 | |
was sent by a male executive
to female colleagues | 1:45:30 | 1:45:32 | |
ranking their attractiveness
on International Women's Day. | 1:45:32 | 1:45:34 | |
In a farewell email to his fellow
employees, Paul Martin, | 1:45:34 | 1:45:36 | |
who has now left his role
as a creative strategist | 1:45:36 | 1:45:42 | |
at the AND Partnership agency,
sent a series of messages | 1:45:42 | 1:45:45 | |
which included a list of 'Top Five'
and 'Bottom Five' female colleagues. | 1:45:45 | 1:45:53 | |
In one offensive comment
about a female colleague, | 1:45:56 | 1:45:58 | |
he said: "If you were the last girl
on earth, I would use you as bait | 1:45:58 | 1:46:02 | |
to trap a wild animal." | 1:46:02 | 1:46:04 | |
In another comment, which had
the subject line "Bye Bye", | 1:46:04 | 1:46:06 | |
Martin listed a female colleague
and wrote, "I don't see | 1:46:06 | 1:46:08 | |
the attraction to be honest,
but everyone else rates you, | 1:46:08 | 1:46:11 | |
so you must be doing
something right". | 1:46:11 | 1:46:12 | |
He has since apologised
and said he is "incredibly | 1:46:12 | 1:46:14 | |
sorry" for the email,
admitting that he "totally | 1:46:14 | 1:46:16 | |
missed the mark". | 1:46:16 | 1:46:20 | |
So, was it just a tasteless joke | 1:46:20 | 1:46:22 | |
or is this part of a wider office
culture? | 1:46:22 | 1:46:26 | |
Let's speak now to Sarah Golding,
the chief executive of the agency | 1:46:26 | 1:46:32 | |
where Martin works. | 1:46:32 | 1:46:43 | |
We are also joined buying Nicola | 1:46:43 | 1:46:49 | |
Kemp. What happened here? It was a
poorly judged and ill-conceived | 1:46:50 | 1:46:58 | |
attempt at a funny e-mail that
nothing is laughing | 1:46:58 | 1:47:08 | |
nothing is laughing with -- within
the agency. I have taken action | 1:47:09 | 1:47:12 | |
within the agency and stopped any
activity like this that objectifies | 1:47:12 | 1:47:17 | |
men or women, and as president of
our industry body I am calling on | 1:47:17 | 1:47:23 | |
all agencies to stop similar
activities that do objectify men or | 1:47:23 | 1:47:28 | |
women. Next week as I'm sure you
know is Ad Week Europe, the biggest | 1:47:28 | 1:47:37 | |
gathering of people who work in our
industry across Europe, and it's a | 1:47:37 | 1:47:42 | |
great opportunity to move forward
positively and bring about change. | 1:47:42 | 1:47:47 | |
People watching this will save there
must have been a culture within the | 1:47:47 | 1:47:50 | |
office that he felt it was safe to
send an e-mail. What's been watching | 1:47:50 | 1:47:56 | |
this, it would never even crossed
their mind to think about it, let | 1:47:56 | 1:47:59 | |
alone put it in an e-mail and hit
the send button. My industry and my | 1:47:59 | 1:48:05 | |
agency does not condone sexism, it
is not a sexist culture. I hope I'm | 1:48:05 | 1:48:13 | |
proof of that, I'm chief executive
of one of the top advertising | 1:48:13 | 1:48:16 | |
agencies in this country and the
second female president of our | 1:48:16 | 1:48:19 | |
industry body. So are you saying
e-mails like this have never been | 1:48:19 | 1:48:25 | |
sent like this before? No, top five
e-mails have been sent but never | 1:48:25 | 1:48:31 | |
like this before. This has not been
a one-way exercise in female | 1:48:31 | 1:48:37 | |
objectification. Normally these top
five e-mails, I think in some | 1:48:37 | 1:48:42 | |
agencies it is top three, actually
celebrate friendships, bonds that | 1:48:42 | 1:48:47 | |
have been made. Explain to people
who don't know what a top three or | 1:48:47 | 1:48:54 | |
top five e-mail is. What has become
tradition within our industry across | 1:48:54 | 1:48:59 | |
many agencies is that when somebody
leaves, they send an e-mail to all | 1:48:59 | 1:49:04 | |
staff naming five people who have
really helped them. Friendships they | 1:49:04 | 1:49:08 | |
have made, people who got them out
of a hole, five great events that | 1:49:08 | 1:49:14 | |
have happened, memorable things or
people that they admire or people | 1:49:14 | 1:49:18 | |
they want to celebrate for having
helped them whilst they have been in | 1:49:18 | 1:49:23 | |
their job at a particular agency so
they are done with fun and | 1:49:23 | 1:49:28 | |
friendship and they are positive and
they celebrate these strong bonds. | 1:49:28 | 1:49:34 | |
So what went wrong? It was juvenile,
ill-conceived and poor judgment but | 1:49:34 | 1:49:40 | |
it was a one-off. My industry is not
sexist, we don't condone sexism. | 1:49:40 | 1:49:48 | |
Only the year before last we issued
a diversity survey where we asked | 1:49:48 | 1:49:52 | |
member agencies to take a really
good look at ourselves so we could | 1:49:52 | 1:49:56 | |
set ourselves targets. We are not
there yet and our industry is | 1:49:56 | 1:50:00 | |
changing like many other industries,
but we have 30% of women in C suite | 1:50:00 | 1:50:06 | |
positions and we have set ourselves
a target to get 50% in C suite | 1:50:06 | 1:50:11 | |
positions by 2020. What about the
women named in this e-mail? What we | 1:50:11 | 1:50:19 | |
read out was very tame, many things
in there were so deeply offensive we | 1:50:19 | 1:50:24 | |
couldn't contemplate putting it on
television, let alone before the | 1:50:24 | 1:50:28 | |
watershed. Are these women offended,
have they been offered support? I | 1:50:28 | 1:50:33 | |
have been talking to one of the
women mentioned in this e-mail so I | 1:50:33 | 1:50:37 | |
know how they are feeling. I was
named in the e-mail, I certainly | 1:50:37 | 1:50:42 | |
wasn't asked to be named in the
e-mail so myself and other female | 1:50:42 | 1:50:47 | |
colleagues, I have a female MD and
several heads of department who are | 1:50:47 | 1:50:52 | |
females, I have certainly apologised
to these women and said I know how | 1:50:52 | 1:50:56 | |
you feel, it is awful, upsetting and
offensive. Did you feel embarrassed? | 1:50:56 | 1:51:04 | |
Yes, I felt incredibly embarrassed
so I made sure, well, I am always | 1:51:04 | 1:51:09 | |
there for these women. I'm doing my
best to champion women. I chair the | 1:51:09 | 1:51:14 | |
women of tomorrow in our industry, I
sit on the Stereotype Alliance, the | 1:51:14 | 1:51:20 | |
UN initiative, I chair and champion
all of the diversity issues that the | 1:51:20 | 1:51:32 | |
IPA agenda sets. I know Paul Martin
has left, clearly this was leaving | 1:51:32 | 1:51:37 | |
e-mail, are you taking any further
against him? I also think now we | 1:51:37 | 1:51:43 | |
need to look at what's happening in
the tabloids. This is a young guy, | 1:51:43 | 1:51:48 | |
he wasn't the head of an advertising
agency, he's in his 20s, he has made | 1:51:48 | 1:51:52 | |
a big mistake and now he is being
pilloried across social media and | 1:51:52 | 1:51:59 | |
all of the tabloids. He should have
thought about that before he sent | 1:51:59 | 1:52:03 | |
the e-mail. You should but he's a
human being and he made a mistake. I | 1:52:03 | 1:52:08 | |
want to bring in Nicola camp now. Do
you think this was a one-off or that | 1:52:08 | 1:52:17 | |
there is a general sexist office
culture that exists in 2018? This | 1:52:17 | 1:52:22 | |
wasn't a one-off, that is clear, and
I don't think this is about one | 1:52:22 | 1:52:27 | |
agency or on individual. There's big
issues across not just the | 1:52:27 | 1:52:30 | |
advertising industry but lots of
other industries as well about the | 1:52:30 | 1:52:35 | |
way in which women are excluded and
belittled and talked about in this | 1:52:35 | 1:52:41 | |
way. These top five e-mails are
symptomatic of a culture in which | 1:52:41 | 1:52:46 | |
women have been valued by what they
looked like and not what they can | 1:52:46 | 1:52:50 | |
do. That is a big issue and
unfortunately this one e-mail has | 1:52:50 | 1:52:54 | |
become a lightning rod for a lot of
different issues which are very | 1:52:54 | 1:53:00 | |
culturally sensitive. There is a
point, as I made to Sarah, that | 1:53:00 | 1:53:05 | |
there are many people watching this
that would never even contemplate | 1:53:05 | 1:53:09 | |
sending an e-mail like that, let
alone putting it down and hitting | 1:53:09 | 1:53:14 | |
the send button so this is
reflective of a culture that you | 1:53:14 | 1:53:17 | |
think allows this to happen in
advertising? I think the fact is | 1:53:17 | 1:53:23 | |
that for a number of years these
e-mails have been sent. This is a | 1:53:23 | 1:53:29 | |
very extreme example of that type of
e-mail. A lot of the e-mails that | 1:53:29 | 1:53:32 | |
have been sent have been more
light-hearted in their tone but the | 1:53:32 | 1:53:36 | |
fact is a lot of them have focused
on women and since we published this | 1:53:36 | 1:53:42 | |
story in Campaign, a lot of those
women have got in touch. After this | 1:53:42 | 1:53:49 | |
e-mail was released, and started
going viral on Twitter, and open | 1:53:49 | 1:53:52 | |
source Google document was created
by women in advertising which named | 1:53:52 | 1:53:58 | |
three other agencies in which these
e-mails have taken place. So I think | 1:53:58 | 1:54:04 | |
it is much bigger than one single
e-mail or one single person. Thank | 1:54:04 | 1:54:10 | |
you for joining us, Nicola and
Sarah. | 1:54:10 | 1:54:17 | |
We spoke earlier to a remarkable
woman, who campaigned for new laws | 1:54:17 | 1:54:25 | |
after the father of her unborn son
killed him by clicking on her | 1:54:25 | 1:54:31 | |
stomach. Let's hear what she had to
say. My neighbour heard the | 1:54:31 | 1:54:36 | |
screaming, she opened the window and
said, what are you doing? Another of | 1:54:36 | 1:54:41 | |
my neighbours was in the car and
stopped in the middle-of-the-road | 1:54:41 | 1:54:45 | |
because she saw two guy essentially
on top of me and as my neighbour | 1:54:45 | 1:54:50 | |
screamed out the window they ran off
and I think that's what initially | 1:54:50 | 1:54:54 | |
scared them off but if it wasn't for
that, God only knows how long they | 1:54:54 | 1:54:59 | |
would have continued attacking me.
After some time I started to realise | 1:54:59 | 1:55:04 | |
my baby hasn't moved so my instinct
started to tell me something was | 1:55:04 | 1:55:09 | |
wrong because he hadn't been moving
for quite a while. So you got to | 1:55:09 | 1:55:14 | |
hospital and at what point did you
realise that Joel had died? It was | 1:55:14 | 1:55:23 | |
once they confirmed it to me. I had
a feeling, I really kind of knew but | 1:55:23 | 1:55:29 | |
I needed them to confirm it. I had a
Caesarean section the following | 1:55:29 | 1:55:33 | |
evening because I couldn't give
birth naturally, it just wasn't | 1:55:33 | 1:55:37 | |
happening. And then after that I
realised or I was told that my | 1:55:37 | 1:55:45 | |
fingers have broken so I also had to
have surgery the same week, a few | 1:55:45 | 1:55:51 | |
days afterwards, I had to have
surgery on my fingers. Obviously the | 1:55:51 | 1:55:55 | |
physical injuries heal in time after
the operations but how have you been | 1:55:55 | 1:56:00 | |
able to process what happened to
you, that the father of your unborn | 1:56:00 | 1:56:05 | |
child was the person to take him
away from you? It's taken a long | 1:56:05 | 1:56:09 | |
time to be fair. Like I say, maybe
two and a half years to get to a | 1:56:09 | 1:56:16 | |
place where I've accepted what's
happened. I will never understand, I | 1:56:16 | 1:56:20 | |
will never know why he did it and
I've accepted that but for me my | 1:56:20 | 1:56:26 | |
main focus was just to make sure
that I was in a good place, you | 1:56:26 | 1:56:33 | |
know, I wasn't going to let this
define me. And was one of the things | 1:56:33 | 1:56:38 | |
that helps you move on the fact that
you went to court and you saw | 1:56:38 | 1:56:43 | |
justice being served? Yes, that was
one of the main things but also just | 1:56:43 | 1:56:47 | |
talking to my family and friends, I
tried to get their outlook on it and | 1:56:47 | 1:56:53 | |
their support as well helped me get
to the place where I am today. Were | 1:56:53 | 1:56:57 | |
you happy with the sentence? Not at
first, I will be honest, not at | 1:56:57 | 1:57:04 | |
first. A minimum of 16 years. I was
lucky, there are other cases where | 1:57:04 | 1:57:11 | |
you don't even have a conviction,
let alone a conviction and a life | 1:57:11 | 1:57:17 | |
sentence being passed to the
perpetrator. And that's because this | 1:57:17 | 1:57:20 | |
is all part of your campaign now to
look at this review of the law | 1:57:20 | 1:57:25 | |
because I guess in your case it was
pretty simple for the police to | 1:57:25 | 1:57:28 | |
investigate. You were heavily
pregnant, this was the father of | 1:57:28 | 1:57:32 | |
your child and he targeted
specifically your stomach so in many | 1:57:32 | 1:57:37 | |
ways it was easy to prosecute under
that law. Exactly, because according | 1:57:37 | 1:57:42 | |
to the law it is a more about if the
police can prove the intent. If they | 1:57:42 | 1:57:49 | |
can prove there was an intention to
harm, destroy or kill a baby, that | 1:57:49 | 1:57:55 | |
is when it is a lot easier for them
to prosecute the perpetrator for the | 1:57:55 | 1:57:59 | |
law but if it was a matter of
recklessness, it is a lot harder to | 1:57:59 | 1:58:04 | |
sort of proof that because they may
not have had the intention to harm | 1:58:04 | 1:58:09 | |
the baby's life but as a result
their recklessness has essentially | 1:58:09 | 1:58:16 | |
ended a baby's life. | 1:58:16 | 1:58:24 | |
ended a baby's life. Malorie Bantala
sharing her story. | 1:58:24 | 1:58:27 | |
BBC Newsroom
live is coming up next. | 1:58:27 | 1:58:29 |