16/03/2018 Victoria Derbyshire

Hello it's Friday,

it's 9 o'clock, I'm Chloe Tilley,

welcome to the programme.

We speak to a woman who's

campaigning for a change in the law

to make it easier to convict someone

who kills an unborn baby.

Malorie Bantala was eight months

pregnant when her baby -

Joel - was killed when his father

repeatedly kicked her

and stamped on her stomach.

The Labour leader,

Jeremy Corbyn, says again

we shouldn't be too hasty to condemn

Russia over the nerve agent

attack on a former spy

and his daughter in Salisbury.

Members of his party aren't so sure.

Jeremy's concern seems to be that we

could be rushing to some kind of

armed conflict with Russia. I just

don't think anybody is talking about

that at all. Nobody is talking about

invading Russia or launching air

strikes on Moscow. What the Prime

Minister set out are specific and

targeted measures, which are not of

a military nature, but we hope will

send a clear message to Russia that

its behaviour is completely

unacceptable.

We'll get reaction at the end

of an explosive week.

And there's controversy this

morning over this T-shirt.

The clothes shop, Topman, is facing

pressure to stop selling it -

because some Liverpool fans say it's

disrespectful to the 96 people who

died in the Hillsborough disaster.

Hello...

welcome to the programme,

we're live until 11 this morning.

We're also going to be

discussing "top five emails" -

after an advertising executive

who was leaving his job sent

round an email ranking his female

colleagues according to their looks.

And he sent it on

International Women's Day.

We'll be talking about

office culture and what

still needs to change.

Do get in touch with your stories

of sexist behaviour at work -

and the other stories we're talking

about this morning -

use the hashtag Victoria

Live and if you text,

you will be charged

at the standard network rate.

Our top story today...

At least four people have been

killed after a newly built bridge

collapsed onto a major

road in Miami.

Eight cars waiting at traffic

lights below were crushed.

Rescue teams are still

searching for suvivors.

Lebo Diseko reports.

This is all that's left

of the bridge that was

built for safety's sake.

Reduced to rubble.

Emergency services say

they are still in search

and rescue mode for now.

It is thought that several people

have died but it is not

clear yet how many.

We will continue to search this

pile until we are sure

that there are no other survivors.

We were able to remove

nine victims early on.

They have all been transported

to local area hospitals and once

we have completed our search

and rescue operations we will remain

on scene and help with

the recovery efforts as well.

It was just before two

in the afternoon local time

when the 950 ton bridge collapsed,

crashing down on the road

below and trapping people

and cars beneath it.

It was completed last Saturday

and was meant to get students from

Florida International University

safely across a busy motorway.

We were just hanging out

and then we didn't hear much

but we starting hearing sirens.

We looked outside and saw multiple

cars crushed under the bridge.

I was in the dorm and my uncle

called me and told me

a bridge collapsed.

I didn't believe him

at first because I saw them

put it up on Saturday.

The section that collapsed

was called an "instant

bridge" because of the fast

construction method used.

Authorities will want to know

how this structure,

which was meant to be iconic,

could have failed

so catastrophically.

Investigators are being sent

to the scene to try

and establish what happened.

Meanwhile, the company that

put the bridge up says

that it is devastated at the loss

of life and is doing

everything it can to help.

Lebo Diseko, BBC News.

Reeta Chakrabarti is

in the BBC Newsroom

with a summary of the rest

of the day's news.

The Russian foreign

minister, Sergei Lavrov,

has confirmed that Moscow will expel

British diplomats.

It follows Theresa May's

expulsion of 23 staff

from the Russian embassy in London,

over the nerve agent

attack in Salisbury.

Jeremy Corbyn has again questioned

whether the Russian state

was behind the poisoning.

In an article in the Guardian,

the Labour leader said

the government should not

rush to judgement.

Keith Doyle reports.

Russia might be diplomatically

isolated as world powers

fall in behind Britain.

But Vladimir Putin was showing no

signs of that at a rally before

this Sunday's election.

With 23 Russian diplomats considered

to be spies in exile from the UK,

the next move is his.

Moscow has continued its salvo

of defiant attacks, saying that

Britain has a boorish attitude

and it cannot be trusted.

And according to the Russian Foreign

Minister Sergey Lavrov,

it's even trying to distract

attention from Brexit.

Britain's own Defence Secretary

was equally blunt.

If you are a nation and another

nation has launched a nerve agent

attack on your people,

then we have every right to tell

Russia to shut up and go away.

Nato is agreeing with Britain's

assessment that Russia

was responsible for the nerve agent

attack in Salisbury.

The Prime Minister's very public

visit there has ensured that this

attack and all of its ramifications

remain very much in the limelight.

Here, behind covers and screens,

the investigation continues.

While in London and Moscow

and other world capitals,

a diplomatic war is under way.

Keith Doyle, BBC News.

Our Political

Correspondent Ben Wright

is in Westminster.

Just thinking about the reaction to

Jeremy Corbyn's comments, they seem

to have exposed sharp divisions

within the party. They certainly

have, divisions that have always

been there, I think, particularly on

foreign policy between Jeremy

Corbyn, who throughout his career

has opposed pretty much any military

action and confrontation. He has

been a critic of Nato. I think he

finds himself in a tricky position

leading the Labour Party on this,

who feel the government's position

on the whole is right and needs to

be backed unequivocally. Jeremy

Corbyn has a different view. He is

maintaining that while the Russian

state could be responsible for this,

he's also saying it could be

possible the nerve agent used in

Salisbury perhaps might have

originated in Russia but could have

fallen into the hands of some Mafia

like gangsters, and that is how it

ended up being used in Salisbury. In

an article in the Guardian today he

says that while the attack is

reckless and barbaric, politicians

need to keep their heads, look at

the evidence and not rush to

judgment. He says the government's

response to this in terms of

sanctions and diplomatic expulsions

is correct, but also says it could

be more effective if they go after

Russian

oligarchs in London and all their

money. He's raising lots of

questions about the government's

strategy and I think that

questioning is making many Labour

MPs on the backbenches and front

bench very uncomfortable. For

instance, Keir Starmer, the shadow

Brexit spokesperson said there

should be no ifs and no buts when it

comes to backing the government 's

strategy on this. But I think Jeremy

Corbyn is still asking a lot of

questions, which he feels are

completely legitimate, but they are

concerning his own party.

Egypt is to send a delegation

of MPs to the UK,

following the death of an Egyptian

student in Nottingham.

18-year-old Mariam Moustafa

died on Wednesday,

nearly a month after being attacked

in the city centre.

The hashtag "Mariam's rights

will not be lost" has

been trending in Egypt,

and the country's prosecutor-general

has asked for information

from British authorities

about the teenager's death.

One in four council-run

secondary schools in England

is running at a loss,

according to new research

by the Education Policy Institute.

The number of schools

in deficit has nearly trebled

in the last four years.

and is putting an extra

£1.3 billion into schools.

Syrian activists say

nearly 20,000 civilians

left the rebel enclave

of Eastern Ghouta yesterday,

in the biggest displacement

of people since government forces

intensified their

assault last month.

The British-based Syrian Observatory

for Human Rights says

the exodus stopped when rebels

launched a counter-attack.

MPs say they've been unable

to identify a border solution

operating anywhere in the world that

would enable an invisible border

to continue between Northern Ireland

and the Irish Republic after Brexit.

The Northern Ireland Affairs

Committee has called

on the government to set out more

details on how it will manage

the movement of people and goods

across the Irish border.

It's also warned that,

without a transition period,

there won't be enough time to put

new arrangements in place

by withdrawal day.

Four African countries

with the world's largest elephant

populations are expected to call

on Britain and the European Union to

ban the legal sale of antique ivory.

Ministers from Botswana will sign

a petition at a wildlife

summit in the country,

urging Europeans to follow

China's lead in outlawing

the sale of ivory products.

Alistair Leithead reports.

Africa's elephants are still

severely under threat,

with less animals being born

than the number killed

every year by poachers.

Here in Botswana, the last true

sanctuary for elephants

on the continent, African ministers,

scientists and conservationists

are again meeting to try

to stop the ivory trade.

Techniques used for counterterrorism

are now being used to stop poaching

and catch the culprits.

And they're being showcased

at the Giants Club Summit,

which aims to protect half

of Africa's elephants

and their habitat by 2020.

But there's another target.

The legal trade of antique ivory

in Britain and the rest of Europe.

The UK and the EU are the biggest

exporters of legal antique ivory.

These are sales that are permitted

and are allowed around the world.

Now, we have seen China has

banned their trade in ivory.

Hong Kong is saying it's

doing a similar thing.

The African leaders meeting

here with their governments

are hoping the EU and the UK

could do likewise and could stop

this trade in antique ivory.

It won't stop the poachers

targeting these animals

for their tusks across Africa,

but it will send a strong

message to try and reduce

the demand for ivory.

Alastair Leithead,

BBC News, in Botswana.

The singer Rihanna has

accused the social media

app Snapchat of "intentionally"

shaming victims of domestic abuse.

An advert for a game on the social

media platform asked

users if they would "rather slap

Rihanna or punch Chris Brown".

A spokesperson for the company said

the ad was "disgusting" and "should

never have appeared".

A man who calls himself

the French Spiderman has defied

security to climb to the top of one

of Paris's highest buildings.

Alain Robert was tackled by security

guards as tried to scale

the Total building.

But after being released

he returned to the challenge,

clambering 187 metres to the top.

Afterwards, he said he would

continue to climb for as long

as he was physically able.

That's a summary of the latest BBC

News - more at 9.30.

Do get in touch with us

throughout the morning -

use the hashtag Victoria Live

and if you text, you will be charged

at the standard network rate.

Let's get some sport...

The Winter Paralympics are drawing

to a close this weekend and as yet

Great Britain have not met their

medals target. What other chances to

improve situation?

The target was 6-12 medals and the

realistic game was seven set by

Paralympics GB. They are on five as

it stands.

More disapointment for

Great Britain's snowboarders

following on from the boarder cross

on Monday where the start

gate broke just before competition.

Today Ben Moore,

James Barnes-Miller and Owen Pick

all missed out on medals

in their Winter Paralympic banked

slalom events.

All got 3 runs, best time out

the three which counts.

Pick, GB's flag bearer,

missed a gate in his second

run and then failed

to improve in his third which we're

watching now, he was

well off the pace set

by the eventual winner from Japan.

It means Britain remain on five

medals, with two days of competition

remaining in Pyeongchang.

Paralympics GB relying

on Scott Meenagh in the cross

country tomorroew and the 3 pairs

in the Women's slalom to add

to their total of 5 in South Korea.

Our things starting to turn around

for Arsene Wenger?

Arsenal in the

hat for the Europa League

quarterfinal draw after beating AC

Milan 3-1 last night. They went

behind at the Emirates but recovered

to score three times, winning the

tie 5-1 on aggregate. Danny Welbeck,

two goals last night on the day he

got back into the England squad for

the friendlies against the

Netherlands and Italy. Some big

teams left in the drawer including

Atletico Madrid, Marseille, Sporting

Lisbon, CSKA Moscow. Arsene Wenger

said he wanted to avoid Atletico

said he wanted to avoid Atletico in

the last eight. After losing to

Manchester City twice and Brighton

before the first leg, it was a run

of four defeats for Arsene Wenger

but he says they have proved a few

people wrong.

We had a nightmare

week and to recover from that we

need to be mentally strong, to be

solid. And the team needed to show a

together response. That's what we

did. Overall, I think many people

didn't expect us to respond like we

did.

The Champions League draw takes

place at 11 o'clock this morning,

Manchester City and Liverpool are

keeping an eye on who they will have

on the last eight of the Champions

League. The Europa League draw is an

hour later at midday. Arsenal are

well off the pace in the Premier

League so winning the Europa League

could well be their only way back

into the Champions League next

season. And still there are lots of

Arsenal fans who want Arsene Wenger

out but he has eased some pressure

with this Europa League run.

He goes

on and on!

Some breaking news that

is reaching us, we were talking in

the news about the Miami bridge

collapse and police have now

confirmed that six people have died

after the bridge collapsed in Miami.

We will bring you more developments

on that throughout the programme.

Malorie Bantala was eight months

pregnant when the father

of her unborn baby attacked her.

Kevin Wilson and his

17-year-old accomplice Tarsari

Grant repeatedly kicked and stamped

Malorie in the stomach.

It led to the stillbirth of her son

Joel and left her in a critical

condition, needing major surgery

on the hand she had used

for protection from the blows.

Branding the attack cowardly,

vile and callous the judge sentenced

Wilson to a minimum of 16 years

for child destruction and GBH.

Grant was given a 10-year

custodial sentence,

plus four years on licence.

Now three years on from the attack

and Malorie has launched a petition

and campaign calling for an urgent

review of the child destruction law,

which she feels makes it difficult

to get the sentence perpetrators

of these specific crimes deserve.

Speaking to us exclusively

in her first interview

since the attack Malorie

is here with us now.

Thank you for coming in.

Thank you

for having me.

What memories do you

have of the day of the attack?

For

me it was just I remembered coming

home from a friend's house, I was

walking along the pathway towards my

house and the guy came out at me

from the bushes wearing a motorcycle

helmet. As he came out from the

bushes he stood beside me and let me

go. As I took a couple of steps

forward I see another guy with a

motorcycle helmet but then I

happened to recognise him. Just as

that happened, I found myself on the

floor so the first guide put me on

the floor. Next thing I know, I'm

being stamped and kicked by the guy

that got me pregnant. The first guy

from behind, he stumped me on the

stomach. At the time I was thinking

what's going on, why is he doing

this? All sorts of stuff was going

through my mind.

Presumably terror

and thinking about what is happening

to your unborn child.

Exactly, but

at the time I was in the state of

confusion, I didn't know what was

going on.

And you knew it was him

because he recognised his eyes?

No,

his eyes were covered with a

motorcycle helmet but just his

figure and what he was wearing.

So

you were left lying on the pavement,

did anyone come to your aid?

My

neighbour heard the screaming from

her house, she opened her window and

screamed, what are you doing? At

that moment, another neighbour saw

two guys on top of me and as my

neighbour screamed out of the window

they ran off and I think that is

what initially scared them off, but

if it wasn't for that God only knows

how long they would have continued

attacking me.

So you were rushed to

hospital?

Not really, no. The

ambulance couldn't make it so the

offices took me to hospital, then I

had to wait another hour or so just

to be seen by a nurse for an

assessment.

And what's going on in

your mind during that time? I guess

you were starting to process what

happened.

Initially I sat down, I

thought maybe my waters have broken,

I went to my neighbours' house but

they couldn't see anything. I wasn't

in a lot of pain because of the

adrenaline but then after some time

I started to realise, my baby hasn't

moved, so my instinct started to

tell me something was wrong because

he hadn't been moving for quite a

while.

So you got to hospital and at

what point did you realise that Joel

had died?

It was once they confirmed

it to me. I had a feeling, I already

kind of knew what I needed them to

confirm it.

You had so much to

contend with because you had had a

Caesarean section...

Yes, I had a

Caesarean section the following

evening because I couldn't give

birth naturally, it just wasn't

happening. Then after that I

realised or I was told that my

fingers have broken so I also had to

have surgery the same week, I think

a few days afterwards, I had to have

surgery on my fingers.

And you lost

a lot of blood, you were in a bad

way. Then all of this happened and

of course the police were around as

well.

They were around from the

start offering support, then once

they thought I was in a better state

to start explaining what happened,

that's when they intervened more.

The main focus was my health and to

make sure I was OK.

And so how did

you begin to process? Because

presumably your family and friends

were trying to protect you but there

was intense media interest in the

story as well because journalists

see it as a story, it is your life

but they want to report what

happened.

Initially I didn't know

how much media attention it gained.

I was in hospital, I didn't have a

phone. My family and friends would

only tell me so much just try and

keep me protected, and they knew I

would get overwhelmed with a lot

information so they just tried to

keep that away from me and I didn't

realise how much media attention it

got until after I came out of

hospital.

Obviously the physical

injuries heal in time after the

operations but how have you been

able to process what happened to

you, that the father of your unborn

child was the person to take him

away from you?

It's taken a long

time, to be fair, maybe two and a

half years just to get to a place

where I have finally accepted what's

happened. I will never understand, I

will never know why he did it and I

have accepted that, but for me my

main focus was just to make sure

that I was in a good place. I wasn't

going to let this define me, I

wasn't going to let this completely

take over my life and stop me from

moving on.

Was one of the things

that helped you move on the fact

that you went to court and you

sought justice being served?

Yes,

that was one of the main things but

also talking to my family and

friends, trying to get their outlook

on it and their support as well,

that helped me get to the place

where I am today.

If we talk about

the trial, how hard was that for you

to listen to the evidence and

effectively relive that day that you

try to move on from?

It was a tough

time. It was emotionally draining. I

did put on a brave face. I went

basically every single day just to

make sure that I knew what was going

on, I was in the loop, but when the

evidence came together and the first

time I knew of anything was in court

I was genuinely shocked, I couldn't

believe it and I think that's when

it really dawned on me that he

actually did that. There is no

excuse for his behaviour, none at

all. I am so glad justice was

served.

Were you happy with the

sentence?

Not at first, I will be

honest.

A minimum of 16 years.

For

him to get a life sentence passed, I

was lucky. There are other cases

where you don't

where you don't even have a

conviction.

That is because this is

all part of your campaign now to

look at this review of the law

because I guess in your case it was

pretty simple for the police to

investigate. You were heavily

pregnant, this was the father of

your child, and he targeted

specifically your stomach so in many

ways it was easy to prosecute under

that law.

Exactly, because according

to the law it is more about if the

police can prove the intent, they

can prove there was an intention to

harm or destroy or kill a baby, that

is when it is a lot easier for them

to prosecute a perpetrator, but if

it was a matter of recklessness, it

is a lot harder to prove that

because they may not have had the

intention to harm the baby's life,

but as a result their recklessness

has essentially ended a baby's life.

For example if a woman was in the

early stages of pregnancy and maybe

you cannot tell she's pregnant, but

she is attacked and the child's

diet, you feel that should be the

same as what happened to you?

Essentially yes, they should receive

some justice and pregnancy should

always be considered as an

aggravating factor. As the law is so

complex, it does save the child

should be capable of being born

alive, so at which stage is a child

capable of being born alive? It is a

matter of weeks so you need to

review the intent and you need to

review when do you consider a child

being born alive.

But if you are

four months pregnant and it is very

unlikely a baby would survive being

born at that time, but it is still a

baby, isn't it?

Yes but in the eyes

of the law and due to other ethical

arguments and stuff, a conviction

wouldn't pass so we have to tread

carefully and make sure that the

review actually is able to protect

women all-round.

How do you feel

about child destruction law? The

term itself is just so cold.

Yes, it

is, but it was created in 19 29th so

things have vastly moved on, and

that's the thing. That's why it

needs to be reviewed because the

whole reason why it was created was

to actually tackle backstreet

abortions. Since then, abortion laws

have been passed, and the whole

purpose for them using the law now

is completely different to the

reason why it was introduced.

What

reaction have you had from

politicians when you have raised

this?

I have had support from Neil

Coyle and Harriet Harman, they have

been supportive in this. Since I've

released the petition on social

media, I have had a lot of support

as well. A lot of positive

responses. A few women have actually

come forward to me and told me some

of the similar experiences they have

had, which is a good thing because

at least I know I'm doing this for a

good reason and I'm not just the

only one that has experienced this.

There are many other women who have

gone through the same experience

Azmi or something similar.

Mallory,

thank you for coming to talk to us.

--

-- Malorie

-- Malorie.

Still to come...

We'll have the very latest

on the investigation

into the poisoning of a former spy

and his daughter in Salisbury

and the use of a military nerve

agent on British soil.

A significant rise in the number of

children being excluded from school.

As the government

launches a new review,

we'll be finding out what's

going wrong and why certain groups

of young people are far more likely

to be kicked out of mainstream

school than others.

Time for the latest news.

Here's Reeta with the BBC News

headlines this morning.

Officials in Florida say six

people have been killed

by a footbridge which collapsed

onto a busy road in Miami.

Eight vehicles were crushed

when the walkway gave way, less

than a week after being installed.

The bridge at Florida

International University

was put up in one day,

using a technique designed

to minimise traffic disruption.

Police say rescue teams

will work throughout the day

to search for survivors,

but the number of dead

is likely to rise.

They are saying at least,

because there is the possibility,

the sad possibility,

that under the concrete there may be

additional vehicles.

And they are trying to work at it,

the engineers are working at it

in a very tactical way.

Because again, as I mentioned

before, the structure is very

fragile and it could be very

dangerous to rescue personnel

that are still there,

people that are working.

Russia's foreign

minister, Sergei Lavrov,

has confirmed Moscow will expel

British diplomats.

The move follows Theresa May's

expulsion of 23 staff

from the Russian embassy in London,

over the nerve agent

attack in Salisbury.

Jeremy Corbyn has again questioned

Russia's involvement

in the poisoning of the former spy,

Sergei Skripal, and

his daughter, Yulia.

One in four council-run

secondary schools in England

is running at a loss,

according to new research

by the Education Policy Institute.

The number of schools

in deficit has nearly trebled

in the last four years.

The government says it doesn't

recognise the report's findings,

and is putting an extra 1.3 billion

pounds into schools.

Syrian activists say

nearly 20,000 civilians

left the rebel enclave

of Eastern Ghouta yesterday,

in the biggest displacement

of people since government forces

intensified their

assault last month.

The British-based Syrian Observatory

for Human Rights says

the exodus stopped when rebels

launched a counter-attack.

African countries want the European

Union to ban trade in antique Ivory

saying it would cut demand by making

ivory and unacceptable ornament.

Thousands are killed for their

elephant tusks each year.

That's a summary of

the latest BBC News.

Lots of you getting in touch after

we were talking to Mallory there.

One person says, what an amazingly

brave and articulate woman. I have

nothing but respect for her. I

remember this happening, I felt sick

for her then, and I still do now.

Another person getting in touch, my

heart goes out to the young lady for

what happened to her. I hope she

gets a review on the child

destruction law, best of luck to

her. Get in touch with us on all the

stories we are talking about.

Sport now with Will.

Today Ben Moore,

James Barnes-Miller and Owen Pick

all missed out on medals

in their Winter Paralympic banked

slalom events.

Great Britain have five medals so

far of the seven they targeted.

Arsenal in the hat

for the Europa League

quarterfinal draw after beating AC

Milan 3-1 last night.

They went behind at

the Emirates but recovered

to score three times,

winning the tie 5-1 on aggregate.

Leg-spinner Mason Crane will miss

out on the England tour of New

Zealand. He has been replaced by

Jack Leach. Trainer Nicky Henderson

is chasing an historic treble in the

Cheltenham Gold cup today. Victory

would make Henderson the first

trainer to win the Champion hurdle,

Champion Chase and gold cup at one

festival meeting.

It's been an explosive week

in the investigation into how

a former Russian spy

and his daughter came to be

poisoned in Salisbury.

Both are still in a critical

condition and the police officer

who went to help them

remains in hospital.

It's now been confirmed that

the Novichok nerve agent was used -

a chemical British authorities say

was only manufactured

in the former Soviet Union.

Theresa May has ordered 23 Russian

diplomats to leave the country

and Russia has since vowed

to retaliate in kind.

But the Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn

has again warned against being too

hasty in pointing the finger

at Russian President Vladimir Putin,

sparking criticism from his own MPs.

So before all of this happened,

how bad were Anglo-Russian

relations, and is this a move

towards another Cold War?

It's a spy story reminiscent

of the darkest days of the Cold War,

and it's caused an international

rift that's left UK/Russia relations

at their lowest ebb for decades.

So, how did we get here?

On the 4th of March,

two people were found slumped

on a bench outside a pizza

restaurant in the quiet,

picturesque town of Salisbury.

They were said to be

in an extremely serious condition.

They were quickly identified

as Sergei Skripal -

a former Russian spy who defected

to the British -

and his 33-year-old daughter Yulia.

In July 2010, Mr Skripal had been

one of four prisoners released

by Moscow in exchange for ten

Russian spies.

And by all accounts

he'd lived a quiet life

since arriving in the UK.

As the police investigation

progressed, traces of a nerve agent

were found near the scene

where the Skripals spent

the afternoon, and it became clear

that they'd been poisoned.

The Skripals remain critically ill

in hospital and a police officer

who was also hospitalised

after attending the incident,

Detective Sergeant Nick Bailey,

is said to be in a

serious condition.

In addition, 38 others

were seen by medics,

although they've now nearly

all been discharged.

Prime Minister Theresa May later

said the chemicals used

in the attack had been identified

as being part of a group

of nerve agents developed

by Russia, known as Novichok.

On Monday she spoke in the House

of Commons, asking pointedly

for an explanation from the Russian

government as to how this deadly

chemical could have found its way

onto British streets.

There are therefore only two

plausible explanations

for what happened in Salisbury

on the 4th of March.

Either this was a direct act

by the Russian state

against our country,

or the Russian government lost

control of its potentially

catastrophically damaging nerve

agent and allowed it to get

into the hands of others.

This afternoon, my right honourable

friend the Foreign Secretary has

summoned the Russian ambassador

to the Foreign & Commonwealth Office

and asked him to explain which of

these two possibilities it is.

When no explanation was forthcoming,

she came back to the House

on Wednesday and announced that

all high-level talks

between UK officials

and Russia would be suspended,

and that the UK would expel 23

Russian diplomats from Britain.

They have treated the use

of the military grade nerve agent

in Europe with sarcasm,

contempt and defiance.

So, Mr Speaker, there is no

alternative conclusion other

than that the Russian state

was culpable for the attempted

murder of Mr Skripal

and his daughter.

Meanwhile, the Kremlin has denied

any links to the murder

and condemned allegations

of its involvement as a provocation.

But many have drawn

comparisons with the death

of Alexander Litvinenko,

a former Russian spy murdered

with radioactive polonium in 2006,

and pointed to other unexplained

deaths of Russian nationals

hostile to the Kremlin.

Yesterday, Britain's allies France,

the United States and Germany issued

a joint statement condemning

the first offensive use

of a nerve agent in Europe

since the Second World War.

They called it an assault

on the UK's sovereignty.

With the UK/Russia relationship now

under a dark cloud of mutual

mistrust and tension,

the likes of which haven't

been seen for decades,

many commentators have asked

whether the alleged use

of a chemical weapon in Britain may

mean that the conclusion that Russia

and the West are now in the grip

of a second Cold War is unavoidable.

Certainly, there's good reason

to believe that things may well get

worse before they get better.

To talk us through

that are John Lough -

Former Nato representative in Moscow

and Russia expert at Chatham House.

And Edward Lucas -

Author of The New Cold War

and 'Deception, Spies,

Lies and How Russia

dupes the West.'

Thank you for both joining us. John,

how have we got to the stage where

Russia comes on to British soil and

attempts to murder someone? Our

relations that bad that they can

feel they can just come to Britain

and act this way?

I think the answer

is yes. Relations have been very bad

for a long time. In your preview

piece you referred to the murder of

Alexander Litvinenko in 2006. I

think the Russians thought at the

time they got away with this because

there was a rather lame reaction

from the government at the time. We

kicked out some diplomats, we

stopped talking to the Russian

security services, but a nuclear

weapon had been used on the streets

of London and all the traces were

there. They went back to Moscow and

we were able to eventually identify

who had carried out this murder. The

public enquiry, which was held

several years later, concluded that

the order was probably given by the

head of the Russian security service

and President Putin, at least with

their approval. So relations have

been in a very poor state. The UK

has tried to rebuild some dialogue,

pursued a policy of engagement and

deterrence. In other words, trying

to deter this really damaging and

dangerous behaviour by Russia. I

would say there has been rather too

much emphasis on engagement and

rather less on deterrence. But this

changes the game. The events of 2014

when Russia annexed Crimea and it

destabilised eastern Ukraine, which

almost brought about a very serious

border conflict in Europe, that has

sobered a number of mines in London.

The reaction we are seeing this time

is a little bit different to 2006.

They have effectively stepped up.

Edward, why do you think rationally

used a nerve agent, Novichok, which

is clearly from Russia, it almost

has a Russian stamp on it. Were they

being blatant, did they want to be

found out or do they not care?

The

conclusion is they were doing it in

a blatant way. If they just wanted

to kill Sergei Skripal for some

reason of their own, they could have

done it very discreetly, but they

did that in a very dangerous and

reckless way that endangered the

lives of so many other people in

Salisbury who have nothing to do

with the world of espionage and geo-

political intrigue. I think they are

testing us. I think they tried it in

2006 and they got away with it. They

see that Britain is weak, isolated,

isolated because of the

transatlantic relationship being in

trouble because of Donald J Trump,

and isolated because our

relationship with Europe is in

trouble because of Brexit and we are

desperate for international money.

They think they can give is another

knock and see if they cannot is over

and show we are not able to respond

to this of provocation.

They might

view us as weak, John, but will they

care much that the US, France,

Germany and the UK have released a

joint statement saying it was Russia

and it's not acceptable?

I don't

think they will care very much. This

is largely hot air, they will think,

and is there really the willingness

on the part of the leading Western

countries to Russia and invest in

defences and play this out over the

longer term? That's where the

Russian vulnerability is. I don't

believe it can sustain this sort of

posture indefinitely. It's costing

the country money, opportunities.

The economy is not doing

particularly well. What the Russians

are very skilful at is assembling

power, putting together instruments

of power that they can deploy

against our weaknesses. They are

able to identify our weakness is

very effectively. They can see the

shift in the transatlantic

relationship and the fishes in Nato.

They can see society is in

particular. It has reduced the

influence of the United States and

Europe, and is likely to do so, and

the UK is looking rather isolated.

Edward, are we heading to a new Cold

War?

I released a book in 2007

called the new Cold War, and people

criticised me for scaremongering at

the time but I was not gloomy

enough. I was mainly worried about

money and the military threat in

some corners of Europe. I didn't

think that we were going to face

this kind of really effective

propaganda blitz which we face all

over Europe now, which is

demoralising and dividing society.

It never crossed my mind Russia

would be able to be intervening in

the American political system in the

way that it has. We have been

complacent and arrogant, and Russia

has been getting stronger and

stronger. What annoys me is we were

warned about this in the 1990s by

our friends in Eastern Europe, and

we ignored them, patronised and

belittled them, saying we understood

Russia better than they did. It's

the other way round, they understood

what was happening and we didn't.

Let's talk about gas if we can.

Britain is reliant on Russian gas

supplies. Before Christmas there

were times when it was needed. Are

the Russians likely to use that as a

lever against us, saying they will

not provide it?

I think it's about

1% of our gas supply.

We still used

some before Christmas.

We used some.

The world is awash with liquid gas.

20 years ago gas all came through

pipelines but now we can buy it by

the tank load, just the way we buy

oil. You might have to buy it in

advance because the tankers don't

move fast, but we can supply all our

gas needs without being dependent on

Russian liquefied natural gas. It

might be the cheapest around, but we

can avoid it if we want to. Russia

has a political weapon in Eastern

Europe because of pipelines, but

even there, the EU in the last ten

years has built new pipelines and

storage capacity to the point what

we used to call the abominable

gasman of Russia, the gas pressure

on the east of Europe, that has

almost diminished. We are in pretty

good shape on that front. I'm more

worried about Russian dirty money in

politics and media over here.

We

will be talking about this again in

the next half an hour. Thank you to

John and Edward for speaking to us.

Coming up...

Fashion retailer Topman have come

under fire for a shirt that some

people believe refers

to the Hillsborough disaster -

we'll be getting reaction.

They have stopped selling the shirt.

On this programme we've recently

highlighted a significant rise

in the number of children

being excluded from school.

Last year - more than 6500

students were permanently

kicked out of mainstream schools

in England But WAY more than that -

48,000 - are being educated

in units set up for children

who've been excluded.

Today, the government's

announced plans

for a review to find out exactly

what's going wrong and why certain

groups of people are far more

affected by the problem than others.

For example - if you're

an Afro-Caribbean boy,

you're three times more likely to be

excluded than other children,

kids in care are five times more

likely to be excluded.

Last month, we visited

Hawkswood Primary Pupil

Referral Unit in London -

it's a school for children,

who are in danger of being

permanently excluded

from their mainstream schools.

Have a look at this short clip

from the programme -

it features a six-year-old boy

called Kayden, who'd been previously

excluded and is now learning

to control his behaviour.

Careful!

Careful!

Kayden lives with his

nanny and grandad.

Sometimes we do family game night.

What do you play?

We play Jenga...

And Pie Face, the new one.

Grandad?

Yep?

After this, when I win...

When Kayden came into our life,

then I realised there was more

issues going on than just

a typical little boy.

The darkest point, I think, for us,

was knowing that he was having

really bad meltdowns at school,

and the school was

unable to manage that.

He was climbing up on furniture,

he was lifting up tables, throwing

objects around the classrooms.

It was just really disturbing

for other children to see.

INDISTINCT SHOUTING.

Come here.

Leave me alone!

I just want to be left alone!

OK, then, I can take

you to the blue chair,

I can leave you alone there.

I just want to be left alone!

I want to be left alone!

You want to be left alone?

It's not safe for me

to leave you here.

I want to!

I can leave you alone,

I can leave you alone, but not here.

Here is not the place.

I can leave you alone inside

the classroom on the blue chair.

I don't...!

You know you're not

allowed to hit me, Kayden.

I don't even care!

OK, well, I do care.

I don't care!

I don't like it.

Kayden, why are we

here on the floor?

Are you able to use your words

and tell me what's happened?

OK, that's fine, but this isn't

a very safe place to be,

in the middle of the corridor.

I don't even care!

You don't need to care,

you just need to know that we do.

He almost ran from the noise,

and I would say it distressed him,

and then that lead onto undesired

behaviour.

I know that he wanted a little bit

of peace and quiet to calm down.

Kayden, can we go to a safer

place than the corridor?

That's a bit quieter?

He was kind of stuck in the moment,

so you try a few different tactics.

Well done.

Can I show you something

before we go?

I just want to show

you something, look.

We said, "Oh, have you

seen our new library?

Do you want to go in?"

And that was it, he

came right out of it.

And that's my favourite.

No way?!

That is your favourite book?!

Are you serious?!

Oh, my goodness!

Right...

That's Lego Batman.

Do you know what we're going to do?

That was distraction.

In that moment, that's

what brought him down again.

So he's been in education

to two and half years

and still can't read and write.

He would never have done that.

He could just about write his name

and maybe single words,

but that's only since he's

been at Hawkswood.

There's been a drastic

change in Kayden.

He can sit down now

for at least five, ten minutes

and actually play a game.

He can do a little bit

of reading with us now.

He can sit, you know,

and just eat his dinner.

Wow, so did you have

lots of fun at school today?

We don't take Kayden out very often.

We struggle with the fact

that we are worried that

Kayden's going to run off,

or he has meltdowns and then we've

got to try to explain that

to parents or people that

are staring and looking.

And I think it's the hardest thing

is to try to explain

to someone that, actually,

"I'm really sorry that my child has

done this to your child,

or done it it to you or whatever,

but you can't label a child."

Kayden is not diagnosed,

so until that diagnosis has been

made, I will not put a label on him.

A little earlier we spoke

to Nadhim Zahawi, who's the Children

and Families Minister,

about the government's plans to look

into why so many children

are being excluded and why certain

groups are more

affected than others.

No alternative provision should be

a dumping ground for anyone.

I think the right thing

to do is for us to review

what is happening with exclusions

and have a strategy to make sure

alternative provision is the best

quality we can make it,

so the outcomes for all those

children, whether they are

reintegrated into mainstream,

or have to be in alternative

specialist provision,

actually get the best educational

attainment, and, of course,

the best outcome in terms

of employment or training for them

in the future.

That's the purpose of this.

It's why we are also launching

the 4 million Innovation Fund

to look at best practice

in alternative provision and see

how we scale that up.

I mentioned the Anna Freud centres

and the work they are doing.

I think one of your particular

examples of a young man

at the Everton School...

The Education Select Committee

hasn't given its final findings.

It's expected to look pretty

bad for the government.

Is this why the government

has come out now ahead

of that final report,

to try and show that it is

taking some initiative?

It's not going to look good for you.

You mentioned the £4 million

that is being ploughed

into this Innovation Fund.

£4 million, it's not a lot of money.

Well, the Education Select Committee

work is incredibly important.

It is a serious committee,

with serious colleagues,

a cross-party and they look at this

in real depth and we

always listen to them.

I was before them looking

at the fostering review we asked

of Sir Martin Narey and Mark Owers,

and of course their own

report into fostering

in our country this week.

So their work is

incredibly important.

But this review and the work

that the Prime Minister has

asked Ed Timpson to do

is incredibly important.

Look, she's the first Prime Minister

to actually ask for a race disparity

order and publish it,

and ask all her departments to step

up and explain or take action

as to what we do about these things.

And through that we discover that

Afro-Caribbean boys are three times

more likely to be excluded.

This is serious work,

and this idea that somehow we react

because of the select committee...

Of course it's important work,

but this has been on our radar

for a long time, and it's right

that we review what is happening

as we begin to get outcomes for

children in alternative provision,

so it's the best possible

that we can make it.

Let's talk to Gilroy Northover -

he was excluded from school

and now works at the same

Pupil Referral Unit

where he was sent.

Brenda McHugh - set

up the family school,

an Alternative Provision School in

London.

And Zack Kelly - he was excluded

from school while in care,

he went to Everton Free School,

which is an alternative

provision school.

He now works at

Everton Football Club.

I want to start with you because you

were excluded from school when you

were at 15, what do you put that

down to?

Not enough support at home,

could you be diagnosed with dyslexia

or something else. Mainstream school

doesn't dig in that deep to a child

because there's 30 in a class, if

one is being disruptive get rid of

the one rather than the 29 so we

don't know if that child has

something going on at home, if that

child is being abused or neglected.

What was your need that wasn't

recognised?

I was going through

different things, my mum was a

single parent of four, I am the

youngest. I was calling out for

help, however I cannot articulate my

words because as well as being a boy

child, we are in a generation where

we cannot express our emotions so we

are in a world where if a man

expresses his emotions it is a sign

of weakness so you don't want to get

labelled as weakness in secondary

school because peer pressure comes

into it, you could get bullied, so

you have to create this bravado

where you have to be at the top.

You

are strong but crying out for help.

That's right.

Zack, can you identify

with that? Because you were in care,

then excluded.

It was because I was

going through a lot of stuff at home

at the time and I was in and out of

care over the years while I was

still at school. I have a lot going

on in my head and at home, a lot of

issues going on. When I went into

school, because I didn't really know

how to release those emotions, when

I was speaking to someone I would be

lashing out and misbehaving at

school so that forced me to either

get excluded or suspended due to my

behaviour.

Does it surprise you when

you hear the statistic that children

in care are five times more likely

to be excluded from school?

Yes

because this is crazy because many

people growing up in care, they

don't necessarily, some people

haven't been kicked out of school

and people have different stories

and backgrounds. It is quite crazy

to hear that to be honest because

many people have either got issues

at home, issues in their personal

life so everyone is going through a

different story in their life.

different story in their life. Most

people have been excluded from

school, being in care, it is a crazy

statistic really.

Let's bring Brenda

in because I know that you set up

this family school and one of the

particular focuses is on mental

health support because you see that

as being... Missing, in mainstream

education?

I think that is why Anna

Freud set up the family school

because we know from Gilroy and Zack

that behaviour masks difficulties,

and striving to find out what lies

behind that behaviour, because that

behaviour is quite often an exit

from an opportunity to be in a

mainstream school where there are

lots of life opportunities for young

children. So really important not

just think is it one thing, but to

have an enquiring mind, to have time

and the expertise to be able to

think what lies behind this

behaviour, and what can we do to

support that young person. In the

case of Gilroy, the family as well,

in order to

in order to resolve of those

problems because if the family where

you live is going to support you

back into school, you would need to

trust they have the skills and

confidence.

What happens if the

family are not supportive, because I

guess the -- that is the challenge.

They might not have the time because

of the practicalities of life.

The

children we meet often tell

heart-rending stories about the

impact of exclusion on them. They

may be at work, get a phone call,

they need to pick up their child or

the impact on the other children.

The family life is completely

disrupted by the exclusion so many

of our families, by the time they

get together and come to the Family

School, they say thank goodness, I'm

also meeting other families that

have felt the shame or hopelessness

of exclusion and now I feel I am

somewhere, like you were saying,

where I say I actually have

difficulties and I'm not going to be

judged by this and I'm ready to get

the help. Families come saying, at

least now we are in the same boat

and we can begin to think, what is

going wrong with my child?

So what

is the solution? We spoke about

children in care five times more

likely to be excluded, black boys

three times more likely to be

excluded. What is the solution to

that?

The solution, as I said

before, we need more key workers,

more mentors to come into mainstream

schools and be one-to-one with these

children, and children need to get

support at their houses as well. If

they are at work and they cannot

support them, they should have a key

worker in place for that child.

People listening to this, and Zack

is nodding his head, the problem is

lots of secondary schools are in

deficit, there was a real crisis in

funding. My own children's schools

are forever having meetings about

how to raise money.

how to raise money.

In 2020 we

should have 17 schools open across

different borrowers so we are all

connected and we can all go to

different units and experience and

learn different things from

different schools we work in to

improve, as well as see how

different systems work in different

schools.

Zack, what do you think

would be a way to tackle this and

stop so many children being

excluded?

It is similar to what

Gilroy said, there is an really a

lot of support around young

children. To have meant touring

scheme in place, if a young person

is getting in trouble and at risk of

exclusion, so I think it would be

good if there could be a system that

comes together where, if the child

is in the process of going down the

wrong road, then they can be pulled

out straightaway again and given the

support and management may need.

It

is the only intervention we hear

about so often, and it always comes

down to money which is the tricky

point. One person has got in touch

saying, possible unconscious bias

towards Afro-Caribbean boys in my

opinion. School-age black boys who

hit puberty earlier can be

intimidating to teachers with more

muscles and a deeper voice than

other demographics but the reality

is they are still children. Another

one says, it's all about competition

between schools which means some

schools would rather get rid of kids

that affect their reputation, this

is wrong and should not be

happening. Get in touch on the

hashtag Victoria live. Thank you so

much for coming in this morning. Now

let's get the latest weather with

Lucy Martin. It's not going to be a

good weekend, is it?

It's turning much colder as we head

into the weekend with a mini beast

from east bringing colder

conditions. By the time we get to

tomorrow we are struggling to reach

five Celsius after a potential 14

today. Mixed fortunes with how much

sunshine we'll see. This photo from

North Wales but it's brighter in

Kent, blue skies to start the day,

although there are patches of mist

and fog. Outbreaks of rain today

across north-east Scotland and North

East England, some falling as snow

over high ground. Cloudy with

outbreaks of rain over Northern

Ireland and north-west England.

Brightening up with rain in the

Midlands and North Wales, good

spells of sunshine, but perhaps some

heavy and thundery showers. A high

of 14 Celsius but it will be windy

in the north. This evening and

overnight, the rain will turn to

snow even of lower levels and it

will start to sink South and West

into parts of the Midlands, East

Anglia and maybe Wales as well. The

wind started to strengthen in the

south with temperatures largely

falling below zero. The far

south-west holding onto some

slightly milder temperatures. As we

move on to the weekend, high

pressure over Scandinavia, pulling

in really cold air from the east, a

similar setup to what we saw a few

weeks ago. Doesn't look like it will

be for as long, just the weekend. A

much colder start to tomorrow,

Apache outbreaks of rain, sleet and

snow clearing the south-west in the

morning. Snow showers feeding in

from East. The far north-west just

staying dry in Scotland.

Temperatures staying largely in low

single figures, but when we had in

the brisk north-easterly wind, it's

feeling significantly colder, -7 in

Norwich. As we head into Sunday,

perhaps a longer spell of snow for a

time. A little bit of uncertainty as

to the exact position of the sunny

spells. Stay tuned to the forecast.

Cold start the day on Sunday, some

of ice. Possible disruption. Snow

patches moving west as we had

through the day. It will not feel

warm with temperatures in the single

figures when we add in the wind,

feeling very cold. Into the weekend,

thing turning colder. Perhaps

turning to 14 Celsius today, but

struggling over the weekend. The

wind will make it feel significant

the colder and there is some snow in

the forecast. Take care and keep

up-to-date with the forecast as we

head into the next few days.

Hello it's Friday, it's 10 o'clock,

I'm Chloe Tilley...

Our top story - calls

for Jeremy Corbyn to take

a tougher line after he warns

against 'hasty judgements' over

who poisoned a Russian

spy and his daughter.

In a newspaper article he says

'let's not manufacture a division

over Russia where none exists'.

The evidence points

towards Russia on this.

Therefore, the responsibility

must be borne by those

that made the weapon,

those that brought the weapon

into the country and those

that used the weapon.

What I was asking were questions -

questions about the

identity of the weapon.

Questions about the reference

to the Weapons Convention.

And also the support

of other allies in this.

If you are a nation ans=d nother

nation has launched a nerve agent

attack on your people,

then we have every right to tell

Russia to shut up and go away.

I think the Prime Minister

was absolutely right to expel those

diplomats and the actions

we are taking.

We'll get reaction to this -

and find out whether other countries

- who've said they support

Theresa May - are likely to take any

action against Russia.

One of the nation's favourite soaps

Coronation Street is to screen

a harrowing male rape storyline.

We'll hear from one man

who has been raped twice

and also from Coronation

Street's producer.

Retailer Top Man tells this

programme it will no

longer sell this shirt

after criticism from some people

who believe it refers

to the Hillsborough disaster.

When the £20 shirt went on sale

online and in stores it

provoked a furious reaction

from Liverpool fans,

who took to Twitter.

The retailer Top Man told this

programme it apologises

unreservedly for any offence caused

by the shirt and has

removed it from sale.

It's coming up to 10.0 4am. We can

go to the BBC newsroom for a summary

of today's news.

Officials in Florida say six

people have been killed

by a footbridge which collapsed

onto a busy road in Miami.

Eight vehicles were crushed

when the walkway gave way, less

than a week after being installed.

The bridge at Florida

International University

was put up in one day,

using a technique designed

to minimise traffic disruption.

Police say rescue teams

will work throughout the day

to search for survivors,

but the number of dead

is likely to rise.

This has turned from a rescue into a

recovery operation. We are able to

confirm to you at this point, and

you have to stand this is a very

slow process and they are still

working away at the concrete.

Engineers told us last night that it

has to be done very carefully, not

only because of the fact we have to

preserve evidence and there may be

possible victims under there and we

have to treat it delicately, but

also the safety of the rescuers as

well. Because of the unstable nature

of the bridge right now. It's a very

slow process and they have been

working all night long. They are

still working. We can confirm at

this point that at least there are

six fatalities.

They are saying at least,

because there is the possibility,

the sad possibility,

that under the concrete there may be

additional vehicles.

And they are trying to work at it,

the engineers are working at it

in a very tactical way.

Because again, as I mentioned

before, the structure is very

fragile and it could be very

dangerous to rescue personnel

that are still there,

people that are working.

Russia's foreign

minister, Sergei Lavrov,