20/03/2018 Victoria Derbyshire


20/03/2018

Actor Michael Sheen tells Victoria why he is taking an aim at high cost 'rent to own' firms. Plus Paigey Cakey explains why she decided to get a hair transplant in her twenties.


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Transcript


LineFromTo

Hello, it's Tuesday, it's 9 o'clock.

0:00:060:00:08

I'm Victoria Derbyshire,

welcome to the programme

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Our top story today -

planting fake news, spying

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on rivals, hiring beautiful women

for use in honeytraps,

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some of the things the boss

of election campaign consultants

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Cambridge Analytica

talked about when talking

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to a possible client

who was, in fact,

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an undercover reporter.

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The boss now says that report

grossly misrepresented

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those conversations.

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Please see this as a coordinated

attack by the media that's been

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going on for very, very many months

-- we see this as. In order to

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damage the company that had some

involvement with the election of

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Donald Trump.

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The Information Commissioner says

she'll be investigating -

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we'll hear from her before the end

of the programme.

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Also on the programme -

in an exclusive interview,

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actor Michael Sheen tells us how

he's taking on rent to own companies

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which charge huge interest rates

for household products -

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it's an issue we've

investigated before.

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I said where's it from? BrightHouse.

I said, oh, my God. How many times

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have I said don't judge them with a

barge pole?!

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barge pole?!

We will hear from

Michael Sheen and former Labour

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leader Ed Miliband in the next 15

minutes.

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And hair plays a huge part

in our self image and self esteem -

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so what impact does it have

on you if you start

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losing it in yours 20s?

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I thought I am too young for her

loss, I have just turned 25, I have

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experienced this since college. I am

way too young to be losing my hair.

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Hello.

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Welcome to the programme,

we're live until 11.

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As we are each weekday.

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Throughout the morning we'll bring

you the latest breaking news

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and developing stories and -

as always - we're keen

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to hear from you.

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Also we'll bring you this story -

the world's last male northern white

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rhino has died in Kenya,

bringing the sub-species to the very

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brink of extinction.

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The 45-year-old rhino,

who was called Sudan,

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was in poor health and was put

down on Monday.

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His daughter and grand-daughter

are the only females remaining now.

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We'll look at what this means

and talk to those who knew Sudan.

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Do get in touch on all the stories

we're talking about this morning -

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use the hashtag #VictoriaLive.

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You can also send an e-mail or

message is on Facebook or Twitter.

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If you text, you will be charged

at the standard network rate.

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Our top story today...

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The Information Commissioner

will today apply for a warrant

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to search the offices of a British

company accused of misusing

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the personal data of 50

million Facebook users.

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A former employee of

Cambridge Analytica has accused it

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of exploiting information

about Facebook users

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in order to influence the US

presidential election.

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Its executives have also been filmed

by Channel 4 News suggesting it

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could use honey traps

and potentially bribery

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to discredit politicians.

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Both Cambridge Analytica

and Facebook deny any wrongdoing.

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Mark Lobel reports.

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A leading British data mining

firm is today battling

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to save its reputation.

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Yet, this is complex to do...

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Executives from Cambridge Analytica

have been secretly filmed

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by Channel 4 News apparently

suggesting it could use honey traps

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and potential bribery

to discredit politicians.

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But the company hit back,

criticising how the programme

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was edited, claiming they do not

engage in honey traps or bribes.

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Last night, the company's chief

executive spoke to the BBC.

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I have a huge amount of regrets

about the fact that we maybe

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undertook this meeting and spoke

with a certain amount of hyperbole

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about some of the things that we do.

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But the allegations don't end there.

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Cambridge Analytica may be

responsible for a major breach

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of ordinary people's data, too.

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It has been accused of using

the personal data from 50 million

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Facebook users to encourage voters

to back Donald Trump during the 2016

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US presidential election.

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A whistleblower from the company

claims a personality quiz

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on Facebook was used

to amass the data.

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That potential breach

of privacy has alarmed

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the Information Commissioner

who today, citing Cambridge

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Analytica's lack of co-operation,

is seeking a warrant

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to search its databases and servers.

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Facebook suspended Cambridge

Analytica from its services last

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week and instructed a digital

forensic team to find out if it

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still has the data in question,

but Cambridge Analytica claimed it

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has deleted all the data it obtained

from a third party application

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in 2014 after learning

the information did not adhere

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to data protection rules.

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Mark Lobel, BBC News.

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Our correspondent

Keith Doyle is here now.

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What else can you tell us?

Cambridge

Analytica wants to be in the

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background, obviously, and it is

finding itself in the headlines,

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something it definitely does not

once. Those allegations of last

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night, the recording is broadcast by

Channel 4, in that Aleksander Nix

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was asked about Digg Dummett Radebe

digging, he said we do a lot more

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than that. -- was asked about deep

digging. We could offer clients a

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deal that seems too good to be true,

maybe send some girls around. He

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said he was grossly misrepresented

and they were following ludicrous

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hypothetical scenarios so as not to

embarrass what they thought was a

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potential client. Now we know the

information Commissioner Elizabeth

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Denham wants to look at their

servers and computers. Liam Byrne,

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the shadowed digital Business

Minister is questioning that,

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questioning whether she has the

right legal powers to be able to

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carry out a thorough search. He says

that in effect she has given them a

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bit of a heads up and now they know

what lies in store, so he says it is

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the wild West out there. It will be

interesting to hear what she says

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later.

Thank you, Keith. We will

hear both from Labour's Liam Byrne

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and the information Commissioner

later. Annita McVeigh has the rest

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of the day's news.

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Jeremy Corbyn says the UK must steel

deal with Vladimir Putin despite

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evidence pointing to his country's

involvement in the Salisbury spy

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attack. The Labour leader said he

would do business with Russia but

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assertively and on the basis of UK

values. Shadow Chancellor John

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McDonnell says he believes Putin was

responsible but Mr Corbyn said he

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wanted an absolutely definitive

answer about the source of the nerve

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agent.

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Former French President Nicolas

Sarkozy is being held in police

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custody in connection with an

investigation into campaign funding.

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Police are investigating alleged

irregularities over the financing of

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his 2007 presidential campaign. He

is being questioned over allegations

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that he received funding from Bulega

Libyan leader Colonel Gaddafi.

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Consumers could see prices fall

by up to 1.2% if Britain

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were to abolish all tariffs once it

has left the European Union.

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The findings are in

a report by the financial

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think tank, the Institute for Fiscal

Studies.

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But the independent report also

warns that any gains would be small

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and that costs linked to new EU

trade barriers could hit consumers.

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A two-year-old girl has died

after being lifted from a car found

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in a river in Wales.

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Kiara Moore was recovered

from a silver Mini in

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the River Teifi in Cardigan.

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On Monday afternoon,

numerous Facebook posts claimed

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the car had been stolen.

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Officers say they are continuing

to investigate the circumstances

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of the incident and appealed

for witnesses who may have seen

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the vehicle enter the river.

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The taxi-hailing service Uber

has suspended testing

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of its driverless cars in the US

after a fatal accident.

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A 49-year-old woman was hit

as she crossed a street in Arizona.

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While self-driving cars have been

involved in several crashes,

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it is thought to be the first time

a self-driving car has been involved

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in a fatal collision.

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Police are urging members of the

public to help them prevent terror

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attacks in the UK as part of a new

drive to encourage people to report

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suspicious behaviour or activity.

Detectives have revealed that one in

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five reports made to

counterterrorism police last year

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contained useful intelligence. Here

is our home affairs correspondent

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Danny Shaw.

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The police need the public's

help to tackle terrorism.

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They want people to become

their ears and eyes,

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to be on the lookout for unusual

activity or behaviour and report it.

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The message is,

trust your instincts.

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Just as officers trust

theirs when they spot

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something that doesn't feel right.

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I may see someone paying attention

to security operations, um,

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a car going past the same location

numerous times, a person with no

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direction or purpose,

but the list is not exhaustive.

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It's very much what is

suspicious to that person.

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As part of the police campaign,

there is a short film to show

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people the kind of things

they should report.

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We have long said every good

police officer should be

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a counterterrorism officer.

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I want every good citizen to be

a good counterterrorism citizen

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and this is the way they can

do just that.

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Counterterrorism police say

they received more than 6000 useful

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tipoffs last year out of almost

31,000 calls and messages

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and they want the information

to keep on coming.

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Danny Shaw, BBC News.

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Fathers wanting to take an equal

share in looking after young

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children are being failed

by workplace policies,

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the Government is being warned.

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The Women and Equalities Committee

said that, despite good intentions,

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policies aimed at helping fathers

are not delivering what they

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promise - especially

for less well-off workers.

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MPs called for improvements

to flexible working,

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shared parental leave

and paternity pay.

0:10:140:10:20

The world's last surviving

male northern white

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rhino has died in Kenya.

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45-year-old Sudan was put to sleep

on Monday after suffering

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from age-related complications.

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His death leaves only two females -

his daughter and granddaughter -

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alive in the world.

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Scientists are hoping

to develop IVF techniques

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to preserve the subspecies.

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The TV presenter and McPartlin has

stepped down from his work

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commitments to return to rehab after

being arrested on suspicion of

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drink-driving. This weekend's

Saturday Night Takeaway has been

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cancelled and it is not clear who

will present the final two episodes

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of the series.

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The impact of losing

your hair when you're

0:11:030:11:05

young can be devastating.

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Radio 1 Newsbeat has been

speaking to people who've

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lost their hair in their twenties.

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They've been talking

about the effect it had had

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on their lives and the measures

they're taking to deal with it.

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You can see our special report

in about fifteen minutes' time.

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That's a summary of the latest BBC

News - more at 9:30am.

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We will talk to actor Michael Sheen

in a moment.

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in a moment. He is launching a

campaign to promote alternative

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credit companies who have much

cheaper credit than big payday loan

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companies and the rent to own

companies, something we have

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featured on this programme a number

of times. We will talk to him in a

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moment, but first Jess has the

sport.

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sport. There is debate about whether

Serena Williams has been given the

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rough end of the draw in Miami?

Lots

of debate about this, especially in

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the BBC Sports Centre in Salford.

She has returned after 13 months

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off.

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She used to be the world number

one but since returning

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is currently ranked 491st.

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And because of that low ranking,

she will play a tougher opponent

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earlier on in a tournament,

rather than in the latter

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stages, making it more

difficult for her to win.

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The director of the Miami Open,

where Serena will play

0:12:240:12:27

in the first round this evening,

has described the whole thing

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as "punishment" against Serena

for taking time out to have a baby.

0:12:310:12:37

James Blake suggests there should be

protection for women players that

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go on maternity leave.

0:12:400:12:46

His quotes are quite strong.

0:12:460:12:48

The Women's Tennis Association

recently said that they are very

0:13:020:13:05

supportive of those players

returning from pregnancy and the

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players... And the rules, I should

say, will be further reviewed. But

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we have not had a response from

Serena yet, amazingly. She plays in

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Miami this evening so we expect to

hear from her possibly a bit later.

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All the dust and snow has settled on

the Six Nations, everyone happy and

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the Ireland camp but questions being

asked of Eddie Jones?

The fallout

0:13:310:13:35

from England's rubber skin showing

in the Six Nations continues. Former

0:13:350:13:40

player Jeremy Guscott is having his

Siame believes England need to start

0:13:400:13:44

from scratch and have not made any

progress in the last year. They were

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defending Six Nations champions,

they lost three of their five

0:13:480:13:52

matches, finishing fifth in the

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table. There was so much fanfare

when Eddie Jones, the head coach,

0:14:050:14:10

took the mantle and they went on an

amazing run of winning games, but it

0:14:100:14:15

has all fallen apart and there are

major questions to be as of Jones

0:14:150:14:18

and the England players.

We don't normally feature football

0:14:180:14:24

from Chile, something we need to

rectify immediately. Show as this

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outstanding acting acclamation

this

is the Chilean top-flight.

0:14:280:14:35

Definitely a contender for worst

dive of the year, possibly ever. You

0:14:350:14:40

only

0:14:400:14:40

dive of the year, possibly ever. You

only really get to see it in the

0:14:400:14:41

slow replay. The defender in white

falls down, the attacker thinks no,

0:14:410:14:49

I will not kick it, I will throw

myself to the floor. Look how his

0:14:490:14:54

neck cocks back, he rides around on

the floor a little bit and

0:14:540:14:58

amazingly, because of

0:14:580:14:59

the floor a little bit and

amazingly, because of acting, he won

0:14:590:15:01

a penalty.

No! You reap what you

sow, that will come back to haunt

0:15:010:15:06

him. Thank you very much, Jessica.

Welcome to the programme.

0:15:060:15:13

Tackling those who

unfairly target the most

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vulnerable in society -

the British actor, Michael Sheen,

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who's starred in films

such as Frost/Nixon,

0:15:180:15:20

The Queen and The Twilight Saga,

has founded a new initiative aimed

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at providing fairer alternatives

to mainstream rent-to-own firms.

0:15:250:15:33

The End High Cost Credit

Alliance will invest

0:15:340:15:36

in not-for-profit companies

to compete and win against

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high-cost credit providers

like Brighthouse and Perfect Home.

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Rent-to-own firms are often

used by people who cannot afford

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to buy a product outright,

or cannot get credit.

0:15:440:15:49

Consumers take out

an agreement to buy a product

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and then pay weekly instalments

until they own it - similar

0:15:510:15:54

to a hire purchase agreement.

0:15:540:15:59

But customers can end up

paying much more than the actual

0:15:590:16:02

cost of the product due to high

rates of interest and extra

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costs such as a mandatory warranty.

0:16:050:16:07

It's an issue we've

been looking at for some

0:16:070:16:09

time on this programme.

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In July, 2016, former Labour leader

Ed Miliband reported on the subject

0:16:120:16:15

for us and highlighted one example

0:16:150:16:17

that a £358 washing machine ended up

costing more than £1,000.

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With so much choice

on the high street, we're told

0:16:290:16:31

the customer is king.

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As leader of the Labour Party and a

backbench MP, I have talked about

0:16:340:16:38

the needs for firms to do right by

their customers and play by the

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rules. They have 300 stores across

the country, often in the poorest

0:16:420:16:50

areas, Brighthouse. I want to find

out what kind of service they are

0:16:500:16:53

really providing. I am concerned

Brighthouse are taking advantage of

0:16:530:16:59

people on benefits and low incomes.

In the course of our investigation,

0:16:590:17:03

I have been really shocked to find

Brighthouse are selling to people

0:17:030:17:08

with mental health problems and

learning disabilities.

Suffers with

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mental health problems, severe.

Craig is 38, with autism and

0:17:130:17:18

cerebral palsy. His mum says her son

did not understand the contract. She

0:17:180:17:22

spoke to us on his behalf.

He will

pay but then he has nothing for

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himself. For food and electric, gas,

things like that. He is quite a

0:17:290:17:36

handful.

Tell us a bit about what

experience you have had but

0:17:360:17:39

Brighthouse.

Craig apparently had

been in and bought this machine

0:17:390:17:46

where you play games. I kept seeing

it in the house and I did not really

0:17:460:17:52

tweak and then I said, where did

you... How much are you paying for

0:17:520:17:57

that? He said £50. It was 43 a

month. I said, where is it from? He

0:17:570:18:05

said Brighthouse. I said, my God,

how many times have I said do not

0:18:050:18:10

touch them with a barge pole?

Do you

think it would have been obvious to

0:18:100:18:16

the Brighthouse staff Craig has

learning difficulties?

Yes.

What was

0:18:160:18:20

the reaction of Brighthouse when you

complained in the shop and when you

0:18:200:18:24

wrote to them?

They said, we have

been through this, a new man at the

0:18:240:18:30

shop, we go through this to make

sure they know what they are

0:18:300:18:34

getting. I said, that is no good to

Craig.

Although she believes

0:18:340:18:38

Brighthouse should have realised her

son was from rubble, she says they

0:18:380:18:42

stop taking payments from his

account as soon as she told them

0:18:420:18:46

about his situation -- her son was

vulnerable. Brighthouse dispute the

0:18:460:18:53

claims it would have been obvious he

had learning difficulties. They had

0:18:530:18:58

no reason to believe he was not

aware of what he was doing. There

0:18:580:19:01

are those who make the case there

was a gap in the market and Perfect

0:19:010:19:07

Home, Brighthouse and others provide

an essential purpose.

The

0:19:070:19:10

fundamental question is whether we

think these people should be able to

0:19:100:19:14

opt into a contract where they pay

more overall or have the appliance,

0:19:140:19:19

it is an injustice to tell people

that because they are poor they

0:19:190:19:24

cannot have things that we consider

necessities.

Some of the companies

0:19:240:19:28

are making very big profits at the

expense of my constituents. How is

0:19:280:19:33

it fair?

They are taking on a lot of

risk. They are making marginal

0:19:330:19:38

profits because they are loaning to

people with average credit scores.

0:19:380:19:41

These went to an companies often

take on people with no credit score,

0:19:410:19:45

they do not know if they will get

the payment, they take on a lot of

0:19:450:19:49

risk. They get their profits because

they have to insure down the line

0:19:490:19:54

they will get some kind of return

but in the meantime people who would

0:19:540:19:57

not have the goods are getting them

to their homes next day delivery.

0:19:570:20:03

That report from Ed Miliband, 2016.

And he is here. Former Labour leader

0:20:030:20:09

of course.

0:20:090:20:11

In Glasgow is Michael Sheen who's

launching this move to end

0:20:110:20:14

the high cost of credit

and is giving his first interview

0:20:140:20:20

on the subject to us this morning.

0:20:200:20:23

We would like your experiences. A

world away from your day job, tell

0:20:230:20:28

our audience what it is you are

launching and what you wanted to

0:20:280:20:31

achieve.

I'm in Glasgow for a

responsible finance forum, I want to

0:20:310:20:39

launch the End High-Cost Credit

Alliance and it is to create a

0:20:390:20:42

fairer deal for the people who find

themselves unable to access

0:20:420:20:46

mainstream credit and a fairer deal

for the company is trying to help

0:20:460:20:50

those people out, to try to give

them the best deal possible. It is

0:20:500:20:55

double tracked.

And you have been

made aware of the effect of this

0:20:550:21:00

kind of high cost credit on friends

and family, I gather?

Over the last

0:21:000:21:05

seven, eight years, when you have a

little bit of celebrity, like I do,

0:21:050:21:09

you get asked to come and support

different projects and one of the

0:21:090:21:13

things that has kept coming up is

this issue around household debt and

0:21:130:21:17

high cost credit. I started to see

it with friends and family members

0:21:170:21:24

and the burden that is, the stress

it puts on your health, your

0:21:240:21:28

financial and mental and physical

health, as I started to get more

0:21:280:21:33

involved in this issue, I wanted to

see if I could be effective, I did

0:21:330:21:37

not want to just lend my name to

something, I wanted to help people

0:21:370:21:40

trying to help others to see if we

could make a change.

Let me read you

0:21:400:21:44

this text message from one of our

viewers, Jerome. Why do people buy

0:21:440:21:49

things they do not

0:21:490:22:00

need and cannot afford?

I have not

got a 50 inch TV, I could not afford

0:22:020:22:05

one. It is not the shop's fault

people are stupid. What we are

0:22:050:22:08

seeing is people are having to go to

high cost credit lenders to cover

0:22:080:22:10

basic household cross. There was a

report coming out saying that as of

0:22:100:22:14

last year 1.4 million people are now

using high cost credit just to cover

0:22:140:22:17

basic household costs, up from 1.1

million the year before, it is on

0:22:170:22:21

the rise. Since the 2008 crash, wage

earnings have not been able to keep

0:22:210:22:27

up with inflation, so the cost of

living is getting higher and wages

0:22:270:22:31

are not matching it, there is a

squeeze for people and people are

0:22:310:22:34

feeling it more and more.

Is there

anything wrong with this

0:22:340:22:48

kind of of customers know the risks

and charges?

Credit can be a really

0:22:480:22:51

good thing, the useful and necessary

tool, if done responsibly unfairly.

0:22:510:22:53

We try to plan on what is coming

down the line, but sometimes the

0:22:530:22:56

washing machine breaking down can

cause a crisis, we have to have

0:22:560:22:59

access to help when we need it, the

problem is that if there are people

0:22:590:23:03

who are looking out for that and

preying on people when they are in

0:23:030:23:08

difficulty, that seems unfair. There

are alternatives but people do not

0:23:080:23:13

know about them because they do not

have the marketing budget is the big

0:23:130:23:16

companies have so the point is to

make sure people are aware they have

0:23:160:23:20

other options but we have to support

those options so they can take on

0:23:200:23:25

these people.

We did contact

Brighthouse, one of the rent-to-own

0:23:250:23:28

companies, they said they did not

want to comment or appear on the

0:23:280:23:33

programme, but they suggest they are

offering something no one else is

0:23:330:23:36

and it is a service.

Yeah, we talk

about things like APR which is

0:23:360:23:42

essentially the cost of borrowing,

and the companies that are, I would

0:23:420:23:47

say, fairer, more responsible, the

APR still looks relatively high,

0:23:470:23:51

nowhere near as high as the more

irresponsible companies, as I would

0:23:510:23:56

say, but to bring the APR down, we

have to support them, we have to

0:23:560:24:01

give them a level playing field to

compete because there is a gap in

0:24:010:24:06

the market, as your film was saying,

people do need help, it is just they

0:24:060:24:10

are not as aware of the other

companies.

Are you providing in

0:24:100:24:14

practical terms an alternative

source of credit or are you simply

0:24:140:24:21

promoting cheaper alternative

providers of instant credit that

0:24:210:24:24

already exist?

We want to take a

look at the entire sector, creating

0:24:240:24:29

a fairer level playing field across

the whole place and that is what Ed

0:24:290:24:36

would support, I think, if you look

at individual sections, it is hard

0:24:360:24:39

to tackle, so you have to take a

more holistic look and that is why

0:24:390:24:43

the alliances working with

regulators and policymakers and

0:24:430:24:48

funders and think tanks and

grant-making organisations to try to

0:24:480:24:51

create a real shift in the financial

landscape, not just to try to stop

0:24:510:24:56

the worst practices but to support

the better ones.

You will be aware

0:24:560:25:02

of sometimes cynicism that sometimes

exists when high profile wealthy

0:25:020:25:07

people like yourself get involved in

issues like this, will you be

0:25:070:25:10

putting some of your own money into

this?

The alliance so far has been

0:25:100:25:15

funded by my own money, this is

something... I am not an expert but

0:25:150:25:19

I wanted to make sure people who are

experts and have experience and

0:25:190:25:23

resources come together and work

together because this requires a lot

0:25:230:25:27

of different things happening at the

same time. What I found I can bring

0:25:270:25:30

to the table as I can get people to

sit in the same room together, that

0:25:300:25:37

would not normally, even if it is

just to sign a copy of Twilight and

0:25:370:25:43

I have freedom and independence and

I'm not looking for votes, I'm not

0:25:430:25:46

getting paid, I can be more

problematic about it and this is a

0:25:460:25:57

cross-party politics, it is about a

fairer deal -- I can be more

0:25:570:26:01

pragmatic.

Ed Miliband, this is what

Brighthouse say, they serve

0:26:010:26:07

low-income families excluded from

mainstream credit, went to owners

0:26:070:26:10

are very different proposition to

other forms of we undertake

0:26:100:26:14

extensive affordability assessment

-- rent-to-own is a very different

0:26:140:26:21

proposition.

It is worth saying what

has happened since I did the film.

0:26:210:26:25

Since then, the FCO, the people in

charge, they have find Brighthouse

0:26:250:26:30

nearly £15 million and they have

made them pay back money to

0:26:300:26:33

customers because of the sharp

practices, they said they were not

0:26:330:26:37

responsible lenders. We have also

seen some changes to Brighthouse's

0:26:370:26:41

practices. One of the things I

highlighted was the way they bundled

0:26:410:26:46

together the so-called 5-star

service they offered on the price

0:26:460:26:49

and that has changed. The

fundamental problem, Michael talked

0:26:490:26:52

about this very well, you have got

the most vulnerable people who do

0:26:520:26:58

not have an alternative, they are

paying £1500 for a sofa, £1200 for a

0:26:580:27:05

television, paying over the odds,

and Brighthouse's business model is

0:27:050:27:10

based on that very high annual

percentage rate, APR, 70%, often,

0:27:100:27:15

and that is the problem. So I do not

share Brighthouse's you, I think

0:27:150:27:22

they are exploiting vulnerable

people.

But there are other mid-cost

0:27:220:27:26

alternative credit providers as

Michael explained, customers simply

0:27:260:27:31

need to choose them.

I do not think

there is enough of the alternatives

0:27:310:27:35

and that is why I think what Michael

is doing is very important because

0:27:350:27:39

he is trying to use his convening

power, bringing people together, to

0:27:390:27:43

try to get other financiers and

people who care about these issues

0:27:430:27:49

to support some of the credit

unions, the not-for-profit

0:27:490:27:53

alternatives. My constituency

experience which is where I based

0:27:530:27:56

the film is that this can be done at

a much... In a sustainable way at a

0:27:560:28:03

much lower cost. People who cannot

afford the money upfront, you can

0:28:030:28:06

find ways of lending them the money

so that they can buy the cooker, the

0:28:060:28:12

washing machine, the TV, and pay it

back and it does not need to cost

0:28:120:28:17

than double or three times the

amount.

A couple of messages, this

0:28:170:28:22

from... I don't know, but anyway, it

is on Twitter, they are doing what

0:28:220:28:29

our government should be doing,

campaigning to protect the most

0:28:290:28:33

vulnerable in our society from

extortionate high-cost credit. Jamie

0:28:330:28:37

says, great campaign by Michael

Sheen to end higher cost credit,

0:28:370:28:40

people get sucked into a spiral and

cannot get out while being preyed

0:28:400:28:44

upon by big business. I will

introduce Stacey, a mum of five, she

0:28:440:28:49

has borrowed quite a bit of money

over the years, can you hear me?

0:28:490:28:57

Yeah. Thank you for coming on the

programme. Tell us how much you

0:28:570:29:03

think you have ended up borrowing

from some of these companies.

0:29:030:29:08

Thousands, to be fair.

How many, do

you know?

Probably about four, five.

0:29:080:29:17

What has it been like trying to pay

the money back?

It is a bit of a

0:29:170:29:25

struggle but like people say, I

borrow it, but it has only been for

0:29:250:29:29

stuff we need, like washing

machines, fridge freezer, if they

0:29:290:29:33

break, we have not borrowed money

like the text message said to get a

0:29:330:29:38

big 50 inch TV.

For you, would you

describe it as a positive thing?

It

0:29:380:29:45

has, but if we had a bit more access

to credit, but I checked my credit

0:29:450:29:51

score regularly and my problem is at

the minute because I have that much

0:29:510:29:55

credit out, payments, I pay it all,

all up to date, but because my

0:29:550:30:01

credit, I have a lot of it, I cannot

go and, say, get a loan to

0:30:010:30:07

consolidate my credit because they

will not let me have it. Understood.

0:30:070:30:12

And what do you think from what you

have heard of Michael Sheen's

0:30:120:30:15

campaign?

0:30:150:30:20

I think it is brilliant. There is an

alternative to BrightHouse. The

0:30:200:30:24

thing I like about BrightHouse, I

got two of my children refurbished

0:30:240:30:29

laptops from them not long ago. We

could have got these outright

0:30:290:30:32

because they did not cost that much,

but one reason we did not because of

0:30:320:30:37

the insurance they give with that,

anything happens they -- you can

0:30:370:30:42

take it back and they will sort it.

Which was really good because one of

0:30:420:30:46

my twins decided to put a whole

bottle of lemonade over my

0:30:460:30:49

daughter's laptop.

How much was the

insurance?

To be fair, I don't

0:30:490:30:56

actually know. I have it written

down. It is only about two or £3 a

0:30:560:31:01

week, not a huge amount, but it is

handy to have.

0:31:010:31:05

Thank you very much for coming on

the programme, Stacey booth, mum of

0:31:050:31:09

five, who has had a positive

experience. Thank you to Ed Miliband

0:31:090:31:14

and Michael Sheen. Before you go, Ed

Miliband, you would expect me to ask

0:31:140:31:19

you about Jeremy Corbyn and Russia.

Mr Corbyn has given an interview to

0:31:190:31:24

our colleagues on Radio 4 today. I

will give you a quote from it if I

0:31:240:31:28

may. He tells The World At One that

the UK must still deal with Russia,

0:31:280:31:34

despite all fingers pointing to it

over

0:31:340:31:46

the Salisbury spy attack. Is he

right?

Of course we will have to

0:31:480:31:51

deal with them. I was not in the

House of Commons when he responded

0:31:510:31:54

to Theresa May but I read his piece

he wrote about this. He said the

0:31:540:31:57

evidence pointed to Russia, he

backed expelling the diplomats but

0:31:570:31:59

you need to be calm and

level-headed. It is very serious

0:31:590:32:01

what Russia did, very serious indeed

and has to be taken incredibly

0:32:010:32:03

seriously by the British Government,

of course we will have to deal with

0:32:030:32:06

them.

Did Jeremy Corbyn misjudge the

0:32:060:32:09

public mood?

I don't think so. He

was approaching it in his own way,

0:32:090:32:14

saying you need to be calm and

measured. I think you need calm and

0:32:140:32:18

measured leaderships.

A couple more

comments regarding payday loan at

0:32:180:32:22

rent to own, Caven said I bought a

corner suite from one when I moved

0:32:220:32:25

to a new house, paying £100 a month.

I lost my job after 12 months and

0:32:250:32:31

could not pay, the company took it

away and we lost all our money.

0:32:310:32:35

Peter says I'm sure Michael Sheen

has the best intentions but

0:32:350:32:41

involving himself in competing with

established businesses very

0:32:410:32:43

experienced in risk management is

doomed to cost the current backers.

0:32:430:32:48

Helen says Michael Sheen being

brilliant on exploitative credit

0:32:480:32:51

like BrightHouse with Ed Miliband

this morning. It says why is Ed

0:32:510:32:59

Miliband saying poor people don't

have an alternative, what about

0:32:590:33:02

credit unions?

That is right, but we

need people to know about the credit

0:33:020:33:08

unions. I spoke to my own credit

union this morning and they need

0:33:080:33:14

more help and support. My credit

union is restarting its business,

0:33:140:33:18

offering people an alternative to

BrightHouse. We hope it succeeds.

0:33:180:33:24

But the credit union sector in this

country does less well than in

0:33:240:33:27

others. We need more backing for

that from Government, the Financial

0:33:270:33:32

Conduct Authority, it is very

complex for credit unions to offer

0:33:320:33:35

this service. And I think the banks

could do a lot more to stand by and

0:33:350:33:39

support the work of credit unions.

Thank you very much.

0:33:390:33:44

Still to come...

0:33:440:33:45

Loosing your hair in your 20s

and the impact it can have.

0:33:450:33:48

A 23-year-old woman who wears a wig

has been investigating for us.

0:33:480:33:54

And on the brink of extinction -

only 2 white rhinos remain

0:33:540:33:58

after the world's last male species

died, we'll look at what that

0:33:580:34:01

means for the species.

0:34:010:34:07

Time for the latest

news - here's Annita.

0:34:070:34:11

The BBC News headlines

this morning...

0:34:110:34:15

A British company accused

of misusing personal data

0:34:150:34:18

belonging to 50 million Facebook

users is being investigated

0:34:180:34:20

by the information watchdog.

0:34:200:34:21

The UK's Information Commissioner

says she will seek a warrant to look

0:34:210:34:24

at databases and servers hosted

by Cambridge Analytica.

0:34:240:34:28

The firm is accused of using

facebook data without consent

0:34:280:34:31

to influence the outcome

of the last US election.

0:34:310:34:33

Both Cambridge Analytica

and Facebook deny any wrongdoing.

0:34:330:34:41

Meanwhile Cambridge Analytica

executives have been filmed by

0:34:460:34:48

Channel 4 News suggesting it could

use honey traps and potentially

0:34:480:34:52

bribery to discredit politicians.

The company denies any wrongdoing.

0:34:520:35:00

Jeremy Corbyn says the UK must still

deal with Vladimir Putin despite

0:35:220:35:25

evidence pointing to his country's

involvement in the Salisbury spy

0:35:250:35:27

attack.

0:35:270:35:30

The Labour leader said he would do

business with Russia but

0:35:300:35:32

assertively and on the

basis of UK values.

0:35:320:35:36

Shadow Chancellor John McDonnell

says he believes Putin was

0:35:360:35:38

responsible but Mr Corbyn said

he wanted an absolutely definitive

0:35:380:35:41

answer about the source

of the nerve agent.

0:35:410:35:47

The former French

president Nicolas Sarkozy

0:35:470:35:48

is being held in police custody

in connection with an investigation

0:35:480:35:51

into campaign funding.

0:35:510:35:54

Police are investigating

alleged irregularities over

0:35:540:35:57

the financing of his

2007 presidential campaign.

0:35:570:36:02

He is being questioned over

allegations that he received funding

0:36:020:36:04

from the late Libyan leader Colonel

Gaddafi.

0:36:040:36:12

That's a summary of

the latest BBC News.

0:36:130:36:18

We will go straight to Paris and

speak to Hugh Schofield. Tell us

0:36:180:36:22

more about the fact that the former

French president is being

0:36:220:36:27

questioned?

This investigation goes

back many, many years. We're talking

0:36:270:36:33

about the 2006/7 campaign which led

Sarkozy to victory, an investigation

0:36:330:36:38

opened by judges in 2013. French

justice grind exceedingly slow. It

0:36:380:36:43

has to be said that the fact that

Sarkozy has been brought in for

0:36:430:36:48

obligatory questioning and been held

for 48 hours by the investigating

0:36:480:36:54

police in this affair suggests that

the magistrates have been honoured

0:36:540:36:56

for so long and they feel they are

getting closer to the nub of the

0:36:560:37:00

affair. It could end up at the end

of the 24, 48-hour period where he

0:37:000:37:05

has been held, that he will be

placed under a judicial

0:37:050:37:10

investigation, meaning a probable

trial. It is very bad news the

0:37:100:37:14

Nicolas Sarkozy. This allegation has

swarmed around for years and many of

0:37:140:37:19

us, myself included, treated with a

huge amount of caution. Libyan money

0:37:190:37:24

funding a French presidential

election campaign, it sounded far

0:37:240:37:27

too unlikely to be true. It lends an

enormous amount of credence to the

0:37:270:37:32

very allegation which some people

have pushed, they say they have had

0:37:320:37:35

evidence for for some years, the

idea being that back then Sarkozy

0:37:350:37:39

said I have to have a big blitz of a

campaign, take French politics to a

0:37:390:37:46

new level, American-style levels of

razzmatazz. He cultivated through

0:37:460:37:50

various contacts Colonel Gaddafi and

got this money, 50 million euros.

0:37:500:37:55

Into context, if you remember back

then, quite shortly after being

0:37:550:38:00

elected, who did a state visit, a

very unusual state visit, parking

0:38:000:38:04

his tent on the lawn? Colonel

Gaddafi. There is a lot of murk,

0:38:040:38:09

part of the problem has been that

lots of the witnesses are by

0:38:090:38:14

definition almost totally

unreliable, which has allowed the

0:38:140:38:16

Sarkozy camp to say the allegations

have been put up by people trying to

0:38:160:38:22

create smoke screens, but if the

judges getting closer to the truth

0:38:220:38:25

and the truth is that money was

coming into the Sarkozy campaign, it

0:38:250:38:30

casts a very great shadow over the

whole Sarkozy legacy.

Thank you,

0:38:300:38:35

Hugh Schofield. Jessica has the

latest sport.

0:38:350:38:38

Should Serena Williams' world

ranking be protected?

0:38:380:38:40

The tournament director of

the Miami Open, James Blake, thinks

0:38:400:38:42

so and describes the current

seeding rules as punishment

0:38:420:38:45

for women that return to tennis

after having a baby.

0:38:450:38:48

The fallout from England's dismal

Six Nations campaign continues.

0:38:480:38:52

Former England player Jeremy Guscott

says the team haven't made any

0:38:520:38:54

progress in the past year.

0:38:540:38:57

Not since 2006 have they lost

three matches in a single

0:38:570:39:00

Six Nations campaign.

0:39:000:39:04

England are still waiting

on the fitness of all-rounder Ben

0:39:040:39:07

Stokes ahead of Thursday's first

Test against New Zealand.

0:39:070:39:10

The ECB say he's on track to play

his first Test in six months.

0:39:100:39:15

Craig Overton has told the BBC he'll

be ready to step in if needed.

0:39:150:39:21

South Africa's Kagiso Rabada

is available to play

0:39:210:39:23

in South Africa's final two

Tests against Australia.

0:39:230:39:27

The seamer had been banned for bad

behaviour in an ill-tempered series

0:39:270:39:30

but has had the punishment

reduced on appeal.

0:39:300:39:38

That is all your sport, I will be

back with a full bulletin at just

0:39:400:39:43

after 10am.

0:39:430:39:52

Next, losing your hair

when you're young

0:39:520:39:54

and the impact it can have on you,

especially if you're in your 20s.

0:39:540:39:57

Chedira Eggerue is 23 and wears

a wig to hide her bald patch.

0:39:570:40:00

She's been talking to other people

about their own hairloss

0:40:000:40:03

for Radio 1's Newsbeat.

0:40:030:40:04

It shows some graphic

images of hair transplants.

0:40:040:40:06

Hair is a big part of us.

0:40:060:40:07

It shows off our style, identity

and lets us change up our look.

0:40:070:40:11

It's the thing that can

make us feel beautiful.

0:40:110:40:13

But we won't all keep

our hair forever.

0:40:130:40:15

Some of us are going to lose it.

0:40:150:40:21

People have always gone bald,

and they've tried lots of strange

0:40:210:40:23

ways to hide it or stop

it falling out.

0:40:230:40:27

But some techniques work

better than others.

0:40:270:40:31

My name is Chedira, I'm 23 and most

people don't know this is a wig.

0:40:310:40:36

There a massive bald patch right

here, and that's pretty much

0:40:360:40:39

what I've been hiding

underneath this the whole time.

0:40:390:40:41

My hair loss gets to me.

0:40:410:40:43

And it's something that

obsesses other women

0:40:430:40:44

and loads of young men too.

0:40:440:40:48

I'm going to meet others

who are losing their hair,

0:40:480:40:50

and some who are going to extreme

lengths to get it back.

0:40:500:40:55

I'm going only as deep as we need to

go, which is where the roots start.

0:40:550:40:59

I'll find out about my own hair

loss, and discover whether you can

0:40:590:41:02

ever feel good about it.

0:41:020:41:04

Because it doesn't matter how

rich and famous you are,

0:41:040:41:07

you can't hide from hair loss.

0:41:070:41:13

When I wear this, it's

almost like a hat that's

0:41:140:41:16

measured to your head.

0:41:160:41:17

It's got an elastic band.

0:41:170:41:18

So I wear this and it doesn't

disturb my hairline at all.

0:41:180:41:21

My hairline remains

as it is underneath.

0:41:210:41:26

It's really easy to put on, but also

really easy to remove as well.

0:41:260:41:30

So I'm going to remove it.

0:41:300:41:31

It looks bad.

0:41:310:41:32

That's the word I'd use.

0:41:320:41:34

It looks bad.

0:41:340:41:35

My definition of bad is just patchy.

0:41:350:41:38

So patchy and annoying.

0:41:380:41:40

To a lot of people that doesn't look

too bad, they might say.

0:41:400:41:43

Yeah.

0:41:430:41:44

Even to me, on some days,

it doesn't look as bad.

0:41:440:41:47

But then other days it's like,

oh my goodness, this is so obvious.

0:41:470:41:50

So this hairstyle is pretty much

what took away my hairline.

0:41:500:41:54

You can see the extensions

are quite thick and heavy.

0:41:540:41:57

And then, as if that wasn't enough,

I went and tied it up

0:41:570:42:00

into an enormous bun.

0:42:000:42:01

And what happens is when you have

your hair in a heavy bun like that,

0:42:010:42:05

each time you move your head,

the bun sways.

0:42:050:42:07

So each time that's where it

happens, a bit of hair falls out.

0:42:070:42:11

I would never wear my hair upwards

or in an Afro without covering it.

0:42:110:42:15

No one sees this.

0:42:150:42:18

I wouldn't go out on the street -

no one on the street

0:42:180:42:21

sees it like this.

0:42:210:42:25

I always cover my bald

patch when I'm out,

0:42:250:42:27

by wearing a wig or a hat.

0:42:270:42:29

But it's not so easy for guys

to hide their hair loss.

0:42:290:42:34

Perry is 23, and first

started losing his hair

0:42:340:42:35

when he was a teenager.

0:42:350:42:37

Hello, everyone.

0:42:370:42:38

My name is Perry and this

is Perry Presents.

0:42:380:42:44

He has male pattern baldness,

by far the most common form

0:42:440:42:46

of hair loss in men.

0:42:460:42:49

So at times like this,

what do you do?

0:42:490:42:51

So I get my phone.

0:42:510:42:54

And obviously I will

look like a mirror.

0:42:540:42:56

OK, so you put your

phone and camera?

0:42:560:42:58

Yeah.

0:42:580:42:59

And then I'll check it a bit.

0:42:590:43:02

And obviously you can see now -

really bad, right?

0:43:020:43:04

Yeah.

0:43:040:43:05

And the wind makes it worse.

0:43:050:43:07

So I have my brush.

0:43:070:43:08

Basically just do the same

thing again, restyle it.

0:43:080:43:12

But to be honest with you,

in the wind, it's just life.

0:43:120:43:17

And until I get indoors,

that's just the way it is.

0:43:170:43:20

Tidies it up and we'll

take another selfie.

0:43:200:43:22

Love it!

0:43:220:43:24

There you go.

0:43:240:43:25

Speaking about it being just life,

how are you preparing yourself

0:43:250:43:27

for it becoming more

and more obvious?

0:43:270:43:34

I've kind of got to embrace it,

but at the same time it is quite

0:43:340:43:38

scary, because I'm like,

will people think differently of me?

0:43:380:43:40

Will it look really bad?

0:43:400:43:42

Do you feel like your hair,

to an extent, holds a core part

0:43:420:43:45

of your sort of personality

and who you are?

0:43:450:43:50

Yeah.

0:43:500:43:52

My hair is me, that's how I feel.

0:43:520:43:55

My personality, whatever I do

on YouTube, whatever

0:43:550:43:57

I do in everyday life,

it's always there and it's something

0:43:570:44:03

that I'm so self-conscious of.

0:44:030:44:04

If my hair is gone, I feel like I'm

becoming someone else,

0:44:040:44:07

or someone different.

0:44:070:44:08

I guess it's a good thing

if you are being different.

0:44:080:44:11

But at the same time it's a worry,

because what if someone

0:44:110:44:14

thinks differently of me?

0:44:140:44:15

What if someone isn't

attracted to me or likes me,

0:44:150:44:17

or I don't look good, as such?

0:44:170:44:19

You know what I mean?

0:44:190:44:20

I can tell Perry has thought

about his hair loss a lot,

0:44:200:44:23

and worries about what he will look

like in the future.

0:44:230:44:26

His dad lost his hair when he was

young and is now completely bald.

0:44:260:44:30

In most men it will never grow back.

0:44:300:44:33

But there are ways to sort it out.

0:44:330:44:36

I'm in Manchester to see

a 28-year-old guy who is having

0:44:360:44:39

a hair transplant today.

0:44:390:44:41

And I'll be meeting

the surgeon who is doing it.

0:44:410:44:43

I'm really excited to see how

this is going to happen.

0:44:430:44:48

I'm Chedira.

0:44:480:44:49

Nice to meet you.

0:44:490:44:51

Jordan started losing his

hair when he was 20.

0:44:510:44:54

And this doctor has

been carrying out hair

0:44:540:44:57

transplants since the 1990s.

0:44:570:45:01

Straighten your shoulders and turn

your neck all the way around.

0:45:010:45:04

You're not particularly bothered

about bringing your hairline down,

0:45:040:45:07

you want to have more density here.

0:45:070:45:09

It's going to give you

the look that you want.

0:45:090:45:13

The plan is to take hair

from the back of Jordan's head

0:45:130:45:16

and plant it in the thin

areas on top.

0:45:160:45:19

I'm not going to lie.

0:45:190:45:20

First impression, I feel

like your hair loss is actually not

0:45:200:45:23

even that bad at all.

0:45:230:45:24

How do you feel about it?

0:45:240:45:26

How does it look to you?

0:45:260:45:28

Like you say, it's not too bad.

0:45:280:45:30

But it's a weird one really.

0:45:300:45:32

Obviously it affects so many men.

0:45:320:45:34

Should it upset you?

0:45:340:45:37

It wasn't the worst feeling,

but also it knocks confidence

0:45:370:45:39

a little bit as well.

0:45:390:45:42

Someone might look at me and say,

you're having a hair transplant,

0:45:420:45:45

do you really need it?

0:45:450:45:46

In some cases you might say no.

0:45:460:45:48

It's how it makes you feel, I guess.

0:45:480:45:53

Jordan's transplant

will take all day.

0:45:530:45:55

The procedure is becoming

increasingly popular,

0:45:550:45:57

but it isn't normally available

on the NHS.

0:45:570:46:04

It can cost anywhere

between £1000 and £30,000.

0:46:040:46:07

The doctor will make small holes

in the top of Jordan's head.

0:46:070:46:12

He'll then take healthy hairs

from the back to plant

0:46:120:46:15

in the thin areas on top.

0:46:150:46:20

So I'm going only as deep as we need

to go, which is where the roots sit,

0:46:200:46:24

approximately about four millimetres

inside the skin.

0:46:240:46:25

Jordan just looks so chilled out.

0:46:250:46:27

Honestly, it's really painless.

0:46:270:46:31

They said before that it wouldn't be

as bad as the dentist.

0:46:310:46:33

It definitely isn't.

0:46:330:46:38

We'll turn Jordan over, face down,

and then we'll start removing

0:46:380:46:40

the grafts from the back

of his head.

0:46:400:46:44

And then once we have a certain

amount, we then can put

0:46:440:46:47

them back in, yeah?

0:46:470:46:51

During the procedure,

around 3000 hairs will be inserted

0:46:510:46:54

in the top of Jordan's head.

0:46:540:46:57

What's it going to feel

like when you finally get up

0:46:570:47:00

and have a look at your hair?

0:47:000:47:03

It's a long road to see

what is going to be,

0:47:030:47:05

but good, hopefully.

0:47:050:47:06

It'll take a long time

to see if Jordan's hair

0:47:060:47:09

transplant has been a success.

0:47:090:47:11

But for an idea of what the results

might look like, I'm meeting a woman

0:47:110:47:14

who has had it done already.

0:47:140:47:20

Page had a hair transplant

a few months ago.

0:47:200:47:24

She told her YouTube

followers all about it.

0:47:240:47:30

There is like no hair.

0:47:300:47:31

There's like really,

really small strands of hair.

0:47:310:47:34

Her hair loss was down

to traction alopecia.

0:47:340:47:38

It's when your hairstyle creates

tension on your scalp.

0:47:380:47:40

For example, tight

braids or corn rows.

0:47:400:47:42

It's what's caused my own hair loss.

0:47:420:47:43

My forehead probably

started like here.

0:47:430:47:45

No way - you've got a new forehead!

0:47:450:47:47

I've got a new forehead.

0:47:470:47:49

What?!

0:47:490:47:50

It looks so natural.

0:47:500:47:51

Yeah.

0:47:510:47:54

Where exactly was

the initial hair loss?

0:47:540:47:55

On this side here.

0:47:550:47:56

As you can see, there

are still some hairs.

0:47:560:47:59

I've kind of like brushed it down.

0:47:590:48:00

But all on this side.

0:48:000:48:02

It was literally this whole

section up to like my ear.

0:48:020:48:07

What does it feel like when you look

at it and see that is

0:48:070:48:10

clearly missing hair?

0:48:100:48:14

What did it make you feel?

0:48:140:48:16

Do you know what?

0:48:160:48:17

I felt very like self-conscious

but I never told anybody.

0:48:170:48:20

I never told anybody

my insecurities.

0:48:200:48:21

Not a single person knew about it?

0:48:210:48:23

No one actually knew, you know.

0:48:230:48:24

I felt like I was the only person

in the world going through this,

0:48:240:48:28

apart from the people on YouTube.

0:48:280:48:29

In the real world.

0:48:290:48:30

Yeah, in this real world, so that's

why I never spoke about it.

0:48:300:48:34

Otherwise I would have

spoke about it sooner.

0:48:340:48:36

And I wish I'd spoke

about it sooner.

0:48:360:48:38

I wish I'd spoke about it

when it was first happening.

0:48:380:48:40

I wish I was more open about it.

0:48:400:48:44

I thought, I'm too

young for hair loss.

0:48:440:48:46

I've just turned 25.

0:48:460:48:47

I've been experiencing

this since college.

0:48:470:48:48

I'm way too young

to be losing my hair.

0:48:480:48:51

I feel like I was robbed.

0:48:510:48:52

And now you've reclaimed it!

0:48:520:48:53

Yeah.

0:48:530:48:57

Your hair, your face -

it's beauty, especially to a female.

0:48:570:48:59

And to guys, yeah,

hair is a big thing.

0:48:590:49:07

I know a lot of females probably

only find guys attractive, not just

0:49:090:49:12

because of the hairline,

but their hairline is attractive.

0:49:120:49:14

When a man has got full

hair, it's attractive.

0:49:140:49:16

Cutting all my hair and getting

a hair transplant, I have

0:49:160:49:19

so much more confidence.

0:49:190:49:20

I feel very empowered now.

0:49:200:49:21

I feel like sharing my story

was probably the biggest

0:49:210:49:24

thing I've ever done,

and probably the biggest

0:49:240:49:26

thing I ever will do.

0:49:260:49:27

I've got to admit, hair transplants

feel quite extreme to me.

0:49:270:49:33

I've tried looking online

for a solution for my bald patch.

0:49:330:49:36

But it's all very confusing.

0:49:360:49:37

It looks like there are hundreds

of different techniques to try.

0:49:370:49:40

So it's time to speak to someone

who really knows about hair loss.

0:49:400:49:43

Nice to see you.

0:49:430:49:44

Ian is an expert who helps

people understand why

0:49:440:49:47

they are losing their hair.

0:49:470:49:52

95% of men, there is,

well, not major issues,

0:49:520:49:54

but there are issues

with genetic predisposition.

0:49:540:50:02

Genetic hair loss can be

from the male or the female side.

0:50:030:50:06

It doesn't have to come

through the male side

0:50:060:50:08

or the female side.

0:50:080:50:09

So it's non-sex linked.

0:50:090:50:10

They will come in and they will be

looking at hairlines

0:50:100:50:12

going, this has moved.

0:50:120:50:14

And yes, from 16 to your mid-20s,

your hairline does move.

0:50:140:50:16

It does change.

0:50:160:50:17

You get a mature hairline.

0:50:170:50:19

But then there is change over

and above what it should.

0:50:190:50:21

So if you're starting to become thin

there and everything else is normal,

0:50:210:50:24

that's usually genetic.

0:50:240:50:26

Ian says there are only two

medications that can

0:50:260:50:28

help with hair loss.

0:50:280:50:29

Finasteride and minoxidil.

0:50:290:50:33

The NHS says women shouldn't use

finasteride and neither drug

0:50:330:50:36

is available on the National Health

Service.

0:50:360:50:42

So when you start taking this

medication, it allows

0:50:420:50:44

the hair in some cases

to respond quite significantly.

0:50:440:50:46

It may grow hair density back.

0:50:460:50:48

I've heard though that

with medications like minoxidil,

0:50:480:50:51

once you start using it,

you've got to keep using it if you

0:50:510:50:54

want to keep seeing hair growth.

0:50:540:50:56

Is that true?

0:50:560:50:57

Or can you use it just

once and that it?

0:50:570:50:59

So you do have to keep taking this

medication day after day after day.

0:50:590:51:02

It's a treadmill medication.

0:51:020:51:04

So there's no such thing

as a one-shot thing that will just

0:51:040:51:07

get rid of hair loss.

0:51:070:51:08

Hair loss can also be caused

by stress, weight loss, cancer

0:51:080:51:11

treatment or an unhealthy diet.

0:51:110:51:12

In some cases, your immune system

can attack your hair follicles.

0:51:120:51:16

That's what is known

as alopecia areata.

0:51:160:51:22

I first noticed my hair loss

when I was about 19.

0:51:220:51:25

Do you want to see

what it looks like?

0:51:250:51:27

Sure.

0:51:270:51:28

This is a wig, and I hide

behind this all the time.

0:51:280:51:31

As you can see, I've got braids,

got lots of hair on my head,

0:51:310:51:37

but there's clearly a lot

missing here.

0:51:370:51:39

This is classed as a diffuse

thinning around here.

0:51:390:51:42

It does look as though the follicles

have what's called atrophied,

0:51:420:51:45

which means some follicles

have died off.

0:51:450:51:47

If you've cared for your hair

over a period of time

0:51:470:51:49

and it hasn't returned,

then the likelihood

0:51:490:51:51

is it's permanent.

0:51:510:51:54

Most people hate hearing that.

0:51:540:51:58

I didn't want to accept that my hair

is not going to grow back.

0:51:580:52:01

So I've tried all kinds

of weird things I came

0:52:010:52:04

across on the internet.

0:52:040:52:08

Apparently, if you bend all the way

down and massage your head

0:52:080:52:11

for like a minute in castor oil,

it will apparently make

0:52:110:52:13

your hair grow quicker.

0:52:130:52:14

It did not work.

0:52:140:52:15

There is Egyptian texts from 2000

BC that are remedies

0:52:150:52:18

and prayers for hair loss.

0:52:180:52:24

If there was something natural out

there, we would know about it.

0:52:240:52:29

Thank you, Ian.

0:52:290:52:30

I've learned so much.

0:52:300:52:31

No problem.

0:52:310:52:35

You know what, hearing that my hair

loss is at a permanent stage,

0:52:350:52:40

I'm not going to lie,

it's super disappointing.

0:52:400:52:44

Even though I did know somewhere

at the back of my mind that it's

0:52:440:52:48

not going to grow back.

0:52:480:52:49

But I really hoped I'd be told that

if I just used this one

0:52:490:52:52

thing, it would grow back.

0:52:520:52:54

But now that I know,

I guess I've got closure,

0:52:540:52:56

and what I'm going to do now is just

embrace it and accept it.

0:52:560:53:00

I've met some really

interesting people recently,

0:53:000:53:02

who all have different ways

of dealing with their hair loss.

0:53:020:53:07

You're in the studio with your full

natural hair out, looking amazing.

0:53:070:53:10

Let's talk about it.

0:53:100:53:12

A month ago, I would never

have even left the house

0:53:120:53:15

without covering my head,

but that's now changed.

0:53:150:53:17

Today I've decided I'm

going to come in without a wig

0:53:170:53:20

on and allow my head to breathe,

allow myself to feel worthy.

0:53:200:53:23

You look amazing.

0:53:230:53:24

Hair loss is a massive

deal to people.

0:53:240:53:31

And since filming this,

I've seen people who have hidden it,

0:53:310:53:34

I've seen people who have treated

it, I've seen people

0:53:340:53:36

who have embraced it.

0:53:360:53:39

Now for me this process

has definitely taught

0:53:390:53:41

me to just accept it.

0:53:410:53:42

Since then I've started

going out with my natural

0:53:420:53:44

hair a lot more often,

and learned to make

0:53:440:53:47

peace with my hair loss.

0:53:470:53:48

And now I just feel liberated.

0:53:480:53:56

And you can watch a full

version of Radio 1 Newsbeat's

0:54:180:54:20

documentary, Too Young To Go Bald,

on the BBC iPlayer.

0:54:200:54:28

Thank you for your messages. Graham

says, I lost my hair suddenly at 29,

0:54:280:54:34

it was alopecia with bald patches

appearing on my head, and soon I was

0:54:340:54:40

completely bald and eventually her

less. I'm 47 now and fine with it

0:54:400:54:46

but at the time it was very

distressing. Everything I read about

0:54:460:54:50

coping with alopecia was written by

women and started with the words, it

0:54:500:54:55

is OK for men. It did not feel OK to

me, I felt like I was falling apart.

0:54:550:55:01

Paul says the easiest answer is the

number one shave, he says he started

0:55:010:55:07

losing his hair at 13. This woman

says, I am in my 70s, just as

0:55:070:55:12

devastating to lose your hair at

that time of life, age matters not.

0:55:120:55:16

I am so embarrassed I cannot go out

without wearing a hat. We will talk

0:55:160:55:21

more about this issue in the next

hour. Send us your own experiences.

0:55:210:55:26

Breaking news on the latest

inflation figures. Our economics

0:55:260:55:30

editor is here.

Remind us what

inflation is. It is the increase in

0:55:300:55:36

prices, what people are spending to

buy things in shops and the bills

0:55:360:55:42

and today quite a significant

reduction in the rate of increase,

0:55:420:55:45

not that prices are falling,

inflation was up 3%, the Office for

0:55:450:55:52

National Statistics has announced it

has gone down to 2.7%. It means

0:55:520:55:56

prices are rising less quickly than

they were. The main reasons of food

0:55:560:56:02

prices are going up less quickly,

fuel prices going up less quickly

0:56:020:56:07

than a year ago, a locked link to

the value of the pound because we

0:56:070:56:10

import a lot of what we buy, a weak

pound after the Brexit referendum

0:56:100:56:16

and the costs went up, the pound has

been strengthening, meaning the

0:56:160:56:20

imports are less expensive and it is

feeding through now to people's real

0:56:200:56:24

lives. Good news that prices are not

going up as fast as they were.

And a

0:56:240:56:29

report out today again talking about

prices but post-Brexit from the

0:56:290:56:35

Institute for Fiscal Studies.

They

are saying that once Britain is out

0:56:350:56:39

of the customs union, the customs

union has import taxes around the

0:56:390:56:42

border, if we abandon old Paris, all

the import taxes, that could lead to

0:56:420:56:51

a small reduction in prices for

people, about 1.2%. -- if we abandon

0:56:510:56:56

tariffs. The IFS points out prices

have ready by 2% because of the fall

0:56:560:57:03

in the value of sterling and the

cost of doing business with the EU

0:57:030:57:07

will be more expensive once we are

out of the customs union, so

0:57:070:57:12

although abandoning import taxes

would be good for consumers in a

0:57:120:57:15

small way, that good will be

outweighed by the cost of inflation

0:57:150:57:19

we have seen since the referendum

and the cost of doing business with

0:57:190:57:23

the EU which is our biggest export

partner.

Thank you very much. The

0:57:230:57:29

latest news and sport in a moment,

before that, the weather.

0:57:290:57:33

latest news and sport in a moment,

before that, the weather. Not as

0:57:330:57:37

cold a start to the day as of late.

The forecast is less cold than it

0:57:370:57:41

has been and for many of us, sunny

spells, but also cloud in the

0:57:410:57:46

forecast, quite a bit at the moment

across parts of England and Wales,

0:57:460:57:51

eastern Scotland as well, courtesy

of the weak weather front drifting

0:57:510:57:55

steadily west through the day,

continuing to weaken, but it will

0:57:550:57:59

still be thick enough, the cloud, to

produce patchy light rain and

0:57:590:58:03

drizzle. You can see the extent of

the cloud cover, out in the

0:58:030:58:08

Atlantic, a weather front waiting to

come our way, that will be later

0:58:080:58:12

today, producing some rain by the

end of tonight. This morning, as the

0:58:120:58:16

front pushes to the west, it will

brighten up behind it, across East

0:58:160:58:21

Anglia, the south-east, Southern

counties, but also across Wales,

0:58:210:58:24

north-west England, Scotland and

Northern Ireland, you can expect

0:58:240:58:28

some sunshine. Temperatures around

eight up to ten, if we are lucky.

0:58:280:58:32

You can already see the cloud

thickening across the Outer

0:58:320:58:36

Hebrides. This evening and

overnight, the weather front proved

0:58:360:58:41

tee edges in over Northern Ireland,

Scotland and northern England -- the

0:58:410:58:45

weather front edges in. Train will

arrive by the end of the night. For

0:58:450:58:48

the rest of England and Wales, a

cold night and clearer skies. There

0:58:480:58:53

could be patchy freezing fog and

there will also be a widespread

0:58:530:58:57

frost. These temperatures represent

towns and cities. As we head into

0:58:570:59:06

Wednesday, look how the blues our

place to buy

0:59:060:59:18

place to buy yellow, and -- to blues

are replaced by yellow. Tomorrow,

0:59:190:59:24

sunshine over England and Wales. The

weather from producing cloud ahead

0:59:240:59:29

of the rain, the rain crossing

Northern Ireland and Scotland

0:59:290:59:33

through the day. 11 in Aberdeen, a

while since we have seen that. As we

0:59:330:59:37

move into Thursday, the weather

front continues to push into the

0:59:370:59:44

Southeast, eventually clearing, a

lot of dry weather, sunshine and

0:59:440:59:47

East hanging on for the longest,

because in the West and active

0:59:470:59:52

weather front is coming our way,

heavy rain across Northern Ireland,

0:59:520:59:57

Scotland, eventually parts of West

Wales and the south-west. The cloud

0:59:571:00:00

building ahead of it. Look at the

temperatures. Nine up to 12,

1:00:001:00:06

possibly even 13.

1:00:061:00:10

Hello, it's 10 o'clock,

I'm Victoria Derbyshire.

1:00:101:00:15

Welcome to the programme.

1:00:161:00:17

Honey traps, spies and fake news -

just some of the dirty tricks

1:00:171:00:20

Cambridge Analytica executives

boasted of using to swing elections

1:00:201:00:22

to an undercover reporter.

1:00:221:00:30

Deep digging is interesting, it can

be deeply effective to just go and

1:00:301:00:38

speak to the incumbents and to offer

them a deal that is too good to be

1:00:381:00:46

true and make sure that its video

recorded. These sorts of tactics are

1:00:461:00:51

very effective. Instantly having

video evidence of corruption,

1:00:511:00:55

putting it on the Internet.

1:00:551:00:57

The Information Commissioner

will be talking to us

1:00:571:00:59

about why she's investigating

in the next few minutes.

1:00:591:01:01

Should clubbers be given access

to drugs testing areas to prevent

1:01:011:01:04

ecstasy and cocaine-related deaths?

1:01:041:01:10

What that does is take the very

harmful, dangerous drugs out of the

1:01:101:01:14

market. At the moment, while drug

use is pretty constant, drug deaths

1:01:141:01:20

are up. Hospitalisations are up and

there is a huge cost to the NHS and

1:01:201:01:24

police.

1:01:241:01:24

We'll ask users whether they think

introducing safe testing spots

1:01:241:01:26

at popular nightspots will work.

1:01:261:01:28

And we want to hear

your thoughts too.

1:01:281:01:30

And we'll hear about the impact

of going bald when you're

1:01:301:01:33

young from Paigey Cakey,

a rapper from north London

1:01:331:01:35

who was 18 when she first started

to notice her hair was falling out.

1:01:351:01:43

I felt like I'm too young for her

loss, I have just turned 25, I have

1:01:431:01:49

experienced this since college, I am

way too young to be losing my hair.

1:01:491:01:55

Good morning.

1:01:551:01:56

Here's Annita McVeigh

in the BBC Newsroom

1:01:561:01:58

with a summary of today's news.

1:01:581:02:02

Good morning.

1:02:021:02:04

A British company accused

of misusing personal data belonging

1:02:041:02:07

to 50 million Facebook users

is being investigated

1:02:071:02:09

by the information watchdog.

1:02:091:02:10

The UK's Information Commissioner

says she will seek a warrant to look

1:02:101:02:12

at databases and servers hosted

by Cambridge Analytica.

1:02:121:02:16

The firm is accused of using

Facebook data without consent

1:02:161:02:18

to influence the outcome

of the last US election.

1:02:181:02:22

Both Cambridge Analytica

and Facebook deny any wrongdoing.

1:02:221:02:27

Cambridge Analytica executives have

also been filmed by Channel 4 News

1:02:271:02:30

suggesting it could use honey traps

and potentially bribery

1:02:301:02:32

to discredit politicians.

1:02:321:02:38

The company denies any wrongdoing.

1:02:381:02:46

The government's latest figures show

that UK inflation rate has fallen to

1:03:141:03:19

2.7% in February from 3% in January.

Inflation figures are calculated by

1:03:191:03:23

tracking the prices we pay for

hundreds of things we currently

1:03:231:03:27

spend money one, including

groceries. The target for CPI is 2%.

1:03:271:03:32

Consumers could see prices fall

by up to 1.2% if Britain

1:03:321:03:35

were to abolish all tariffs once it

has left the European Union.

1:03:351:03:37

The findings are in

a report by the financial

1:03:371:03:40

think tank the Institute

for Fiscal Studies.

1:03:401:03:41

But the independent report also

warns that any gains would be small

1:03:411:03:44

and that costs linked to new EU

trade barriers could hit consumers.

1:03:441:03:50

Jeremy Corbyn has said the UK must

still deal with Vladimir Putin -

1:03:501:03:53

despite evidence pointing

to his country's involvement

1:03:531:03:55

in the Salisbury spy attack.

1:03:551:03:58

The Labour leader said he would do

business with Russia,

1:03:581:04:00

but assertively and on the basis

of the UK's values.

1:04:001:04:05

Shadow Chancellor John

McDonnell says he believes

1:04:051:04:06

Mr Putin was responsible.

1:04:061:04:08

But Mr Corbyn said he wanted

an absolutely definitive answer

1:04:081:04:11

about the source of the nerve agent.

1:04:111:04:15

That's a summary of

the latest BBC News.

1:04:151:04:17

More at 10.30am.

1:04:171:04:25

One viewer on Twitter says about

hair loss, I lost huge amounts of

1:04:251:04:30

hair during my battle with anorexia.

It is such an alienating effect. I

1:04:301:04:35

was lucky enough for it to grow back

and one of the things that really

1:04:351:04:39

aided its regrowth was caffeinated

shampoo.

1:04:391:04:42

Christopher Arnie Mel says I lost a

lot of hair at a very young age. I

1:04:421:04:46

was 11. A condition which was a

variant of alopecia. It was very

1:04:461:04:54

distressing because I was just

coming into adolescence and was very

1:04:541:04:57

proud of my bright auburn hair. It

came back within four months.

1:04:571:05:04

Peter on e-mail, baldness, just live

with it, only shallow people worry

1:05:041:05:08

about it. I wonder if you are bald

or have a full head of hair.

1:05:081:05:11

Julie says I don't doubt the effect

it has personally but I think of

1:05:111:05:17

cancer patients who go through hair

loss and so much worse as treatment

1:05:171:05:20

for the cruel disease and I can't

help but think it is not so worse

1:05:201:05:24

when it happens gradually and

naturally, often part of your jeans.

1:05:241:05:29

-- genes.

1:05:291:05:30

Do get in touch with us

throughout the morning -

1:05:301:05:33

use the hashtag #VictoriaLive.

1:05:331:05:34

If you text, you will be charged

at the standard network rate.

1:05:341:05:37

Here's some sport now with Jessica.

1:05:371:05:38

Thank you, Victoria.

1:05:381:05:40

A former top tennis player has

described the seeding rules

1:05:401:05:42

in women's tennis as "punishment"

for players like Serena Williams

1:05:421:05:44

who return to the sport

after having a baby.

1:05:441:05:47

Williams ranking dropped from world

number one to 491 during her 13

1:05:471:05:49

months maternity leave.

1:05:491:05:51

Due to her low ranking,

she will play a tougher opponent

1:05:511:05:58

James Blake, the director of the

Miami Open, say she leads be

1:06:031:06:07

protected.

1:06:071:06:09

Due to her low ranking,

she will play a tougher opponent

1:06:091:06:12

earlier on in a tournament,

rather than in the latter

1:06:121:06:14

stages, making it more

difficult for her to win.

1:06:141:06:17

The Women's Tennis Association said

recently they are "very supportive

1:06:211:06:24

of those players returning

from pregnancy," and the rules

1:06:241:06:26

will be "further reviewed."

1:06:261:06:29

Also in Miami is Roger Federer -

he could lose his world number one

1:06:291:06:32

ranking if he fails to reach

the quarter finals.

1:06:321:06:34

He says he will continue his

strategy of being selective over

1:06:341:06:37

which tournaments he plays.

1:06:371:06:38

The 36-year-old missed much

of the clay court season last year

1:06:381:06:41

to preserve his longevity but has

been in fine form in 2018, only

1:06:411:06:44

losing his first match on Sunday.

1:06:441:06:52

Maybe our generation of tennis is

much more taxing and more intense,

1:06:541:06:58

more brutal and all that stuff. I

don't know how much more I have

1:06:581:07:03

lasted me but I am enjoying my time

right now at the top, I can't

1:07:031:07:07

believe I am back to world number

one. I have just had another

1:07:071:07:10

fabulous start to the year. We will

see what the year brings but I need

1:07:101:07:14

to be selective in which tournaments

I can and should play.

Many more

1:07:141:07:18

years left in him, we hope.

1:07:181:07:20

Meanwhile, already in Miami,

Britons Katie Boulter,

1:07:201:07:21

Liam Broady and Cameron Norrie

all won in the first

1:07:211:07:24

round of qualifying

but Naomi Broady lost.

1:07:241:07:32

Cricket and Ben Stokes has taken

full part in training for the first

1:07:321:07:36

test against New Zealand on Friday.

The England all-rounder was unable

1:07:361:07:39

to bowl in the warm up and Hamilton

because of its stiff back then was

1:07:391:07:44

restricted by rain to training

indoors on Monday.

1:07:441:07:47

Craig Overton could be called up if

Stokes is not fit.

1:07:471:07:50

It be an interesting couple of days,

I just had to put in the preparation

1:07:501:07:55

to be ready for the first game of

the call-up comes.

1:07:551:07:57

I am fit, I missed two days with a

sore quad, it was just unfortunate.

1:07:571:08:04

I played the last few days and it

has been really good since then.

1:08:041:08:08

South African back row Uzair Cassiem

will join Pro 14 champion

1:08:081:08:11

Scarlets for next season.

1:08:111:08:12

With Scotland captain John Barclay

leaving to join Edinburgh,

1:08:121:08:14

the Llanelli-based side have acted

quickly to bring in

1:08:141:08:16

the Cheetah's number eight.

1:08:161:08:20

Head coach Wayne Pivac has

described him as a "very

1:08:201:08:22

physical individual."

1:08:221:08:25

That is all the sport for now,

headlines at 10:30am.

1:08:301:08:33

Planting fake news, spying

on rivals, hiring "beautiful

1:08:331:08:35

Ukranian girls" to set a honey trap

- just a few of the things the boss

1:08:351:08:39

of the world's most controversial

election campaign consultants talked

1:08:391:08:44

about when filmed talking

to a possible client who was,

1:08:441:08:47

in reality, a Channel 4

News undercover reporter.

1:08:471:08:55

This comes a day after claims that

that company, London based

1:09:501:09:53

Cambridge Analytica,

had used the private data

1:09:531:09:54

of 50 million people

without their permission in order

1:09:541:09:57

to influence the US presidential

election in favour of Donald Trump.

1:09:571:10:05

And not just 50 million people, 50

million Facebook users.

1:10:051:10:09

Last night Alexander Nix,

the firm's chief executive, told

1:10:091:10:12

Newsnight they'd been targeted

simply because of their role

1:10:121:10:13

in the US election.

1:10:131:10:15

We see this as a coordinated attack

by the media that has been going on

1:10:151:10:20

for very many months in order to

damage the company that had some

1:10:201:10:29

involvement with the election of

Donald Trump.

1:10:291:10:34

We maybe undertook this meeting and

spoke with a certain amount of

1:10:341:10:37

hyperbole about some of the things

that we do, but what we were trying

1:10:371:10:41

to do was to elicit from the

undercover reporter the true

1:10:411:10:45

intentions of the meeting. These

meetings started out as very bona

1:10:451:10:50

fides philanthropic requests for

services to help in the country of

1:10:501:10:58

Sri Lanka, to help make it a better

country and to help spread the

1:10:581:11:03

wealth through projects of

information technology and health

1:11:031:11:05

care. By the time I joined the

meetings the undercover reporter

1:11:051:11:10

pivoted them search that he was

asking us about entrapping political

1:11:101:11:16

officials, the use of honey traps

and all sorts of other behaviour.

1:11:161:11:26

The Information Commissioner,

Elizabeth Denham, is now applying

1:11:261:11:28

for a warrant to search the offices

of Cambridge Analytica.

1:11:281:11:31

She joins us now from Cheshire.

1:11:311:11:32

And in Southampton is

Dr Victoria Baines -

1:11:321:11:34

who until November last year

was Facebook's Trust

1:11:341:11:36

and Safety Manager for Europe.

1:11:361:11:37

She is now a visiting fellow

at Oxford Internet Institute.

1:11:371:11:44

Thank you both for talking to us.

Elizabeth Denham, you are having to

1:11:451:11:48

apply for a warrant because you are

not able to access Cambridge

1:11:481:11:53

Analytica's offices yesterday?

That

is correct. The allegations about

1:11:531:12:00

the use of Facebook data is one

strand of a broader investigation

1:12:001:12:06

that our office is doing into use of

personal data for elections and

1:12:061:12:12

campaigns. We are unable to get

cooperation from Cambridge

1:12:121:12:16

Analytica. We need to get to the

bottom of what happened with this

1:12:161:12:22

personal data affecting citizens

across the world and we are going to

1:12:221:12:27

proceed with a warrant to be able to

search the servers and premises.

Why

1:12:271:12:32

wouldn't they let you win?

That is a

question you should ask Cambridge

1:12:321:12:40

Analytica.

Why do you think?

We are

using all the tools. Again, a

1:12:401:12:47

question for them. We need to get in

to find out on behalf of the public

1:12:471:12:50

what has happened to this data. It

is controversial because there are

1:12:501:12:57

many statements, contradictory

statements, about who had the data,

1:12:571:13:00

how long they had it, whether it was

deleted. Because Cambridge Analytica

1:13:001:13:04

operates in the UK they are subject

to UK data protection law, which we

1:13:041:13:12

oversee.

Do you think it is too late applying

1:13:121:13:15

for this warrant, because it will

take time? Cambridge Analytica

1:13:151:13:19

already know you want to get into

their premises to search the

1:13:191:13:22

property at their servers and

Facebook have already been in?

1:13:221:13:29

Facebook started as search last

night at our request. They withdrew

1:13:291:13:33

their contractors at our request. We

need to get in there. We are looking

1:13:331:13:38

at Facebook and their conduct in

whether or not data was properly

1:13:381:13:43

secured on the platforms.

Sorry to

interrupt but it is possible that

1:13:431:13:49

potential evidence you want to see

has already been tampered with?

We

1:13:491:13:56

don't know. Again, we need to get

in...

But it is possible?

We are

1:13:561:14:02

going through the process, it is

possible. We are using all the tools

1:14:021:14:08

available to be able to investigate

this issue on behalf of UK citizens.

1:14:081:14:14

I spoke earlier to Labour's Liam

Byrne, the Shadow Digital Minister.

1:14:141:14:22

He Is Concerned About Your Powers.

1:14:221:14:29

My number one concern is I don't

think the Information

1:14:291:14:32

Commissioner has the power

to do the investigation.

1:14:321:14:33

We've described this new online

world as the Wild West

1:14:331:14:36

and what we have is a sheriff

without the tools to do the job.

1:14:361:14:39

The fact that she has to go to court

in order to get a warrant,

1:14:391:14:43

basically gives companies

like Cambridge Analytica loads

1:14:431:14:45

and loads of notice which they can

use to do all kind of things -

1:14:451:14:48

destroy all kinds of data,

hide all kind of records

1:14:481:14:51

that might be needed.

1:14:511:14:52

So the reality is we now need

to give the Information Commissioner

1:14:521:14:54

something like a digital search

warrant that allows her to go

1:14:541:14:57

in very quickly to get the evidence

she needs to bring prosecution

1:14:571:15:00

where they are needed.

1:15:001:15:07

You are like a Sherrock without the

tools to do the job. How likely is

1:15:071:15:11

it that evidence will have been

tampered with?

1:15:111:15:19

That is a question we are seeking to

answer.

1:15:211:15:24

That is a question we are seeking to

answer.

You used to work for

1:15:241:15:29

Facebook, you were their trust and

safety manager for Europe, Facebook

1:15:291:15:34

says they have done nothing wrong,

have they?

Good morning. Well, I am

1:15:341:15:40

not sited on the specifics of this

particular case from Facebook's

1:15:401:15:46

perspective, but I can tell you

certainly large tech companies like

1:15:461:15:52

Facebook and Google, they take their

role as data guardians, protectors

1:15:521:15:56

of people's data, very seriously.

Do

they really? If that is true...

They

1:15:561:16:06

do, yes.

How come the personal

information of up to 50 million

1:16:061:16:10

users has ended up being potentially

used by a company that did not pay

1:16:101:16:15

for it to influence the US

presidential election?

I think this

1:16:151:16:20

is a really important point. Let us

unpack this. From the information

1:16:201:16:24

that has been released publicly,

what appears to have happened is

1:16:241:16:28

that people have shared their data

voluntarily with Aaron app and that

1:16:281:16:33

is not with Facebook, with a

third-party -- with the app. From

1:16:331:16:39

what we appear to know by now, that

data has been misused, used for a

1:16:391:16:45

purpose not originally intended and

not communicated with the people who

1:16:451:16:48

signed up it. And I think it is

really important to raise this

1:16:481:16:53

awareness because people do not

always know when they sign up for

1:16:531:16:56

these apps that they should be

checking the data use policies. We

1:16:561:17:02

have new legislation coming in in

the next few months that the

1:17:021:17:05

commissioner will be fully aware of,

the general data protection

1:17:051:17:09

regulation, and what it will do is

make companies much more responsible

1:17:091:17:15

for the data they hold and also

communicating to people what they

1:17:151:17:19

are doing with it. They will be

required to communicate that much

1:17:191:17:23

more clearly. Companies like large

social media sites, they have been

1:17:231:17:27

investing a lot of time and effort

into updating their data use

1:17:271:17:32

policies and communicating that to

people. What concerns me...

1:17:321:17:37

Companies like Cambridge Analytica,

smaller companies, they might not be

1:17:371:17:42

as compliant with the law and

obviously that is a matter for the

1:17:421:17:46

commissioner.

This app, the people

using it, they agree their data can

1:17:461:17:50

be collected, then the app collected

the data of their Facebook friends,

1:17:501:17:56

potentially how they got data of up

to 50 million people, Facebook

1:17:561:18:00

allows the collection of friends'

data to quote user experience

1:18:001:18:04

although it sounds it from being

sold or used for advertising. Should

1:18:041:18:08

it ban the collection of data of

friends?

That is quite an

1:18:081:18:16

interesting ethical question.

What

would you say?

Facebook allows the

1:18:161:18:21

collection of the data to improve

its own services, the BBC will be

1:18:211:18:25

using that data to improve its news

offering per Facebook users and

1:18:251:18:31

their friends, there are some

perfectly legitimate reasons why

1:18:311:18:34

that might be done. You could ask,

do we need to get more granular,

1:18:341:18:39

down into the weeds, about what it

is used for and for what purpose,

1:18:391:18:45

how long it is stored? That is what

the new legislation is about. But

1:18:451:18:50

what I would encourage people to do

who are on Facebook and other social

1:18:501:18:54

media sites, have a look at the

policies. They are communicated in

1:18:541:19:00

quite clear language, I think. But

also go to the information

1:19:001:19:07

commissioner's office, the website,

they state the rights in relation to

1:19:071:19:10

your personal data. If you are

checking the app, if you are invited

1:19:101:19:16

to take part in a psychology test,

you would not hand that data over to

1:19:161:19:21

somebody in the street, if they

asked you for your name, location,

1:19:211:19:25

date of birth. Take a step back and

think, does this feel legitimate,

1:19:251:19:30

does it smell right? If it does not

smell right, it isn't.

1:19:301:19:38

smell right, it isn't.

Information

Commissioner, now applying for a

1:19:381:19:40

warrant to search the offices of

Cambridge Analytica, you said he was

1:19:401:19:45

seeking to find the answer to

whether evidence could have

1:19:451:19:48

potentially been tampered with, how

likely do you think that is?

We will

1:19:481:19:54

have to see, if we get into the

premises, and we have forensic

1:19:541:19:59

experts that will be able to search

the servers and we have a blueprint

1:19:591:20:04

of the data on the servers. That

will help us. But what is getting

1:20:041:20:10

lost in this discussion is the basic

point that the new data protection

1:20:101:20:15

rules that are coming in in May will

give people more rights and

1:20:151:20:20

companies will have more

responsibilities to take care of

1:20:201:20:24

people's data. And we need to ensure

that they understand how data is

1:20:241:20:29

used and that this is not buried,

the notifications, in terms of

1:20:291:20:35

service so the law requires clear

unambiguous consent for the sharing

1:20:351:20:40

of data, the law also gives powers

for us to prosecute individuals and

1:20:401:20:47

organisations that have played fast

and loose with people's personal

1:20:471:20:51

information. And our office is here

to oversee that.

It is retrospective

1:20:511:20:57

or does it come in in May?

In May, I

will have powers of inspection which

1:20:571:21:04

means knock on the door and go in.

There are more significant fines for

1:21:041:21:10

getting this wrong against

organisations. Mandatory data breach

1:21:101:21:14

notification, all of these tools are

really helpful for users, it is for

1:21:141:21:19

individuals, for consumers.

Thank

you very much for your time. The

1:21:191:21:25

Information Commissioner. And

Victoria, who until last year was

1:21:251:21:28

Facebook's trust manager for Europe

and she is now a visiting fellow at

1:21:281:21:32

the Oxford institute.

1:21:321:21:35

Still to come... Police are asking

the public to become

1:21:351:21:42

counterterrorism citizens.

1:21:421:21:48

counterterrorism citizens. We will

talk to people who have already done

1:21:481:21:50

that.

1:21:501:21:52

The world's last surviving male

northern white rhino has died,

1:21:521:21:55

bringing the species

to the brink of extiction.

1:21:551:21:57

Sudan, who lived in Kenya, was put

to sleep on Monday after age-related

1:21:571:22:00

complications worsened.

1:22:001:22:03

Last year the BBC ran a documentary

about Sudan and the battle

1:23:001:23:02

to save his species.

1:23:021:23:04

Here's an extract -

you can see him alongside

1:23:041:23:06

Zachary Mutai, his keeper

of eight years.

1:23:061:23:14

I'm just applying mud on his body.

1:23:151:23:18

This helps to cool his

body temperature down.

1:23:181:23:20

He loves that.

1:23:201:23:22

We really take great care of him,

just like elderly people.

1:23:221:23:26

He's doing fine.

1:23:261:23:28

But anything might

happen at any time.

1:23:281:23:36

This is very serious.

1:23:381:23:40

Something needs to be done.

1:23:401:23:41

I'm now joined in the studio

by Richard Vine, who runs

1:23:411:23:47

the Ol Pejeta Conservancy in Kenya,

where Sudan lived.

1:23:471:23:53

And via webcam we can speak

to Colin Butfield from the WWF.

1:23:531:23:59

Tell us first of all about Sudan and

why the news of his death is so

1:23:591:24:05

significant.

Sudan was the last

remaining northern white rhino,

1:24:051:24:13

male, left on the planet. For that

reason, his death is significant.

1:24:131:24:18

For a long time now, there have only

been three left of that particular

1:24:181:24:23

species, some people argue it is a

subspecies, but that is

1:24:231:24:27

inconsequential in many ways. This

species has been hunted to

1:24:271:24:31

extinction and the chances of

recovering the species are Mote,

1:24:311:24:36

although possibilities through

so-called artificial reproductive

1:24:361:24:38

techniques still exist -- remote. It

is a sad moment, he has been with us

1:24:381:24:45

for eight years. He has become a

good friend. He was very old, it was

1:24:451:24:51

inevitable sooner or later this day

would come.

You say he had become a

1:24:511:24:56

good friend, what do you mean?

He

had been in captivity since the late

1:24:561:25:00

70s, he was captured in the Sudan.

At the time, they were capturing

1:25:001:25:06

rhinos for circuses and he ended up

in a zoo in the Czech Republic so he

1:25:061:25:11

is very acquainted with human beings

and he was very... He was incredibly

1:25:111:25:18

patient, incredibly docile, full of

character, and easily approachable

1:25:181:25:22

by human beings. His keepers

particularly who had lived with him

1:25:221:25:26

for the period he was with us, they

treated him as a kind of family pet,

1:25:261:25:31

as did we all on the Conservancy.

We

had got to know him as an

1:25:311:25:37

individual. How old was he?

When he

died, he was 45. Is there a Rino

1:25:371:25:43

years equivalent? -- rhino. We like

to say he had reached the age of

1:25:431:25:52

100. Whether that is true, I am not

sure, definitely very old

1:25:521:25:56

individual.

And he was sick at the

end.

Yeah comedy was coming down

1:25:561:26:00

with lots of -- yeah, he was coming

down with lots of age-related

1:26:001:26:10

illnesses, he had stopped feeding,

recumbent, not good for a large

1:26:101:26:13

animal, he was suffering, and that

is why we took the decision to

1:26:131:26:17

utilise him.

That is one heck of a

decision.

It is. -- to euthanise

1:26:171:26:26

him. You have to put it into

context. Functionally, from a

1:26:261:26:30

reproductive perspective, he had

become irrelevant over the past five

1:26:301:26:35

years, just because of his age.

Luckily, we have plenty of... We

1:26:351:26:40

have stored northern white rhino

Seaman. The future of the species is

1:26:401:26:49

incredibly dire but the fact we have

it and we have two females left, it

1:26:491:26:53

means theoretically in vitro

fertilisation to recover the species

1:26:531:26:58

as possible. It is really complex,

really expensive, really difficult,

1:26:581:27:02

but theoretically, it is possible.

Wow, theoretically possible.

1:27:021:27:09

Presumably that is something you

would like to see?

Yes, absolutely.

1:27:091:27:14

Obviously, it needs to run in

parallel to making sure there was

1:27:141:27:22

enough habitat available and the

poaching crisis, but we would like

1:27:221:27:25

to see both running in parallel. As

was said, we have been facing a

1:27:251:27:31

decline in most rhino species across

the world, subspecies of Javan rhino

1:27:311:27:35

in Vietnam in 2011, a sad day today,

almost certainly the last of the

1:27:351:27:44

northern white rhino. It is only the

southern white rhino and black

1:27:441:27:48

rhino, relatively stable

populations, but we are losing three

1:27:481:27:51

a day on average to poachers, a big

context we need to tackle. I wish

1:27:511:27:56

Richard and his team every success.

The poaching happens because of

1:27:561:28:01

what, where is the demand coming

from and for what parts of the

1:28:011:28:06

rhino?

Overwhelmingly the rhino

horn. It is essentially made of the

1:28:061:28:10

same stuff as our hair, but it is

believed to have properties of

1:28:101:28:15

value. It is primarily demand for

horn, it is illegal wildlife trade,

1:28:151:28:21

on a massive scale and people do not

realise, it is on the scale of drugs

1:28:211:28:27

and guns, big criminal scale, not

small-scale poaching at all, big

1:28:271:28:32

money, a big problem, needs major

law enforcement. It is demand in

1:28:321:28:38

East Asia primarily.

Who could find

rhino IVF theoretically?

1:28:381:28:49

rhino IVF theoretically? It was for

you, you from the WWF, you are

1:28:491:28:52

incredibly popular around the world,

you would receive donations?

Our

1:28:521:28:58

work is mostly concentrated where we

are experts, in reducing the trade,

1:28:581:29:03

greater policing, protected areas

for the rhino tried anti-poaching

1:29:031:29:07

patrols, working with communities,

it is not particularly our area of

1:29:071:29:11

expertise, but...

Who potentially

could fund rhino IVF, Richard?

1:29:111:29:18

Interesting question. As your guest

is saying, conservation as a whole

1:29:181:29:24

costs an extraordinary amount of

money, the conservation of rhinos in

1:29:241:29:28

particular, the biggest black rhino

sanctuary in East Africa, we have

1:29:281:29:34

over 100, making as a key

population, there are only nine left

1:29:341:29:38

in Africa, we are really important

conservation area for rhinos, but we

1:29:381:29:43

have to spend an inordinate amount

of money on security to safeguard

1:29:431:29:47

the populations, somewhere in the

region of $2.5 million per year on

1:29:471:29:51

security to protect the rhinos.

Finding money in addition to that to

1:29:511:29:56

develop IVF to recover the northern

white rhino is inevitably going to

1:29:561:29:59

be difficult but it is a charismatic

species. Increasingly I am seeing

1:29:591:30:04

around the world people are sick and

tired of the rate of extinction that

1:30:041:30:09

has been witnessed, as we speak, on

this planet. Hopefully there comes a

1:30:091:30:13

time where we can draw a line in the

sand and people get behind courses

1:30:131:30:17

like this.

Let us hope it is in our

lifetime. Thank you very much for

1:30:171:30:23

coming on the programme.

1:30:231:30:25

Police chiefs are asking

members of the public

1:30:251:30:27

to act as "counter terrorism

citizens" to help stop

1:30:271:30:29

deadly terror plots.

1:30:291:30:32

Police say information

from the community is crucial

1:31:331:31:35

to confronting the unprecedented

terror threat, with more than 6,000

1:31:351:31:37

tip-offs yielding useful

intelligence last year.

1:31:371:31:44

So, if you witnessed

suspicious behaviour,

1:31:441:31:45

would you feel confident

reporting it to the police?

1:31:451:31:51

We can speak to Mak Chisty,

former commander for engagement

1:31:511:31:54

with the Met Police, Sajda Mughal,

a survivor of the 7/7

1:31:541:31:57

terror attack in London who now

works with Muslim women to educate

1:31:571:32:00

them on identifying signs

of radicalization in children,

1:32:001:32:06

and from Calgary in Canada,

Christianne Boudreau.

1:32:061:32:09

Christianne's son became radicalized

and flew to Syria in 2012.

1:32:091:32:14

He was killed soon after,

and Christianne now campaigns

1:32:141:32:16

against online

radicalisation propaganda.

1:32:161:32:24

Welcome to you all and thank you for

your patience. Mak, a fifth of

1:32:241:32:30

reports from the public producing

intelligence, the UK

1:32:301:32:33

counterterrorism police and tells

us, which is helpful to them. What

1:32:331:32:36

do you think of this further call to

action?

I think it is absolutely

1:32:361:32:41

necessary. There has always been

cooperation between the public and

1:32:411:32:46

security services and the police. At

no point in time before is it ever

1:32:461:32:49

more needed than now. The dispersed

nature of terrorism is right across

1:32:491:32:54

the piece. What we are really asking

for, police are asking for, if any

1:32:541:33:00

information of whatever value you

may think it may be, too reported to

1:33:001:33:04

encourage people.

Sajda?

I think it

is a good initiative which is

1:33:041:33:10

needed, however I do not want us to

be complacent in terms of being

1:33:101:33:14

reliant on this initiative to defeat

terrorism.

I don't think there was a

1:33:141:33:19

suggestion it is just this.

OK.

But

the police say, for example,

1:33:191:33:30

the police say, for example, they

ten Islamist plots and four

1:33:311:33:32

right-wing terror plots in 2017

which would not have been possible

1:33:321:33:34

without relevant information.

It

would not have been possible if we

1:33:341:33:36

had not had that from members of the

public.

1:33:361:33:38

But what I would like to see happen

is to go out and educate members of

1:33:381:33:43

the public about the signs, educate

them with the very specific signs. I

1:33:431:33:47

would hope the marketing, posters,

leaflets or whatever that go out, or

1:33:471:33:52

the TV adverts, are very specific in

terms of what they tell members of

1:33:521:33:56

the public. I do not want this in

any way to whip up hysteria. Only

1:33:561:34:02

yesterday in the Guardian and

article came out in terms of NHS

1:34:021:34:07

workers reporting patients who said

they were going on pilgrimage. I do

1:34:071:34:11

not want that type of approach, in

effect that could create tensions

1:34:111:34:18

with communities, specifically the

Muslim community. A good initiative

1:34:181:34:20

but I want is to be very specific in

the marketing campaign.

The quote

1:34:201:34:25

says if you see or hear something

unusual or suspicious, trust your

1:34:251:34:30

instincts. Which, Mak, if you don't

like the look of somebody, you

1:34:301:34:34

report them?!

I have a slightly

different view to Sajda in relation

1:34:341:34:38

to being specific. I don't think you

can be. The plotted attacks we have

1:34:381:34:43

dealt with have had a different

dynamic. We do not want to consign

1:34:431:34:49

people to a specific set. If you

feel something is disturbing not

1:34:491:34:54

quite right, police are saying to

report it. Do not feel you are

1:34:541:34:58

wasting time, that you will feel

silly, report it in. 30,000 last

1:34:581:35:05

year, 6000 of which were actionable,

that is real credit to public.

So

1:35:051:35:10

most tip-offs were not useful. Let

me bring in Christianne. You will

1:35:101:35:15

have been asked this so many times,

thank you for talking to us and for

1:35:151:35:19

your patience, tell our audience if

you picked up any signs about your

1:35:191:35:24

son before he flew to Syria? Changes

in views, attitude, behaviour? A

1:35:241:35:29

group absolutely. At the time back

in Canada we had not heard too much

1:35:291:35:35

about the war

in Syria, we heard a

lot about extremism but we are not

1:35:351:35:39

educated about it. I did not

recognise it but I recognised a

1:35:391:35:43

shift. Back then they had a lot more

clear definitions as far as signs

1:35:431:35:49

for this type of extremism, now it

has gone underground. What we try to

1:35:491:35:54

do when working with parents is say

when it is somebody very close to

1:35:541:35:59

you, a loved one, you will pick up

on those changes of behaviour,

1:35:591:36:04

personality, even. They starts

occluding themselves from their

1:36:041:36:06

regular circle of friends, start

shifting, coming away from the

1:36:061:36:11

everyday norms of their lifestyle

and start having arguments and

1:36:111:36:16

stronger views about certain points

of view. You can feel it in your

1:36:161:36:21

gut.

You can feel it in your gut.

Did you report your son to the

1:36:211:36:26

authorities?

Yeah, like I said

before, there was no way of me

1:36:261:36:30

understand what was happening. I

could see a change, I did not know

1:36:301:36:34

if it was depression again, some

kind of extreme views and he was

1:36:341:36:39

going to settle because of his new

religion, we see that in born-again

1:36:391:36:43

Christians when they go in full

force. Where was I going to report

1:36:431:36:47

it? There was nobody to talk to, not

a safe environment to talk to

1:36:471:36:52

somebody, nobody I could reach out

to.

1:36:521:36:55

Thank you very much for your time,

we appreciate your patience. Thank

1:36:551:36:58

you.

1:36:581:37:00

Clubbers should be given access

to places to test their drugs

1:37:001:37:03

in UK towns and cities,

especially at night,

1:37:031:37:05

to see what's in them and how

safe they are to take.

1:37:051:37:08

Campaign group The Loop says deaths

related to ecstasy and cocaine

1:37:081:37:10

are at a record high.

1:37:101:37:17

It believes if people are able

to test their drugs,

1:37:171:37:19

the amount of drugs laced

with potentially lethal

1:37:191:37:21

products will be reduced,

which will in turn reduce the number

1:37:211:37:24

of hospital admissions.

1:37:241:37:26

So, should clubs and pubs

introduce drug testing areas?

1:37:261:37:31

Or will it, as critics argue,

simply encourage people to take

1:37:311:37:33

illegal drugs?

1:37:331:37:37

Really keen to hear

from you this morning.

1:37:371:37:39

Earlier, we spoke to Labour MP

Jeff Smith, who co-chairs the group

1:37:391:37:42

of MPs who've written a report,

the All-Party Parliamentary Group

1:37:421:37:45

on Drug Policy Reform.

1:37:451:37:49

Simpa Carter is a recreational

drug user and is in Newcastle

1:37:491:37:51

for us this morning.

1:37:511:37:53

David Jamieson is

the West Midlands Police

1:37:531:37:55

and Crime Commissioner,

who this summer will introduce drug

1:37:551:37:57

testing in nightspots

across his patch,

1:37:571:38:00

and Fiona Measham,

professor of criminology

1:38:001:38:02

at Durham University

and the director of The Loop,

1:38:021:38:04

who currently set up testing

centers at UK festivals.

1:38:041:38:12

-- testing centres. We asked Jeff

Smith what needs to change.

Well, we

1:38:141:38:19

have a situation where the

night-time economy is very important

1:38:191:38:24

in this country. We have thousands

of people going out tonight and

1:38:241:38:28

venues, many of whom use drugs. We

had to accept that as a reality.

1:38:281:38:33

What this report is about is

reducing the harm related to that

1:38:331:38:38

consumption. It is a suite of

proposals and the great thing about

1:38:381:38:43

them as they can all be implemented

without changing the law.

1:38:431:38:47

One of the lustre Matic proposals is

you are suggesting that then use in

1:38:471:38:51

towns and cities across the lad

should test drugs on the spot -- one

1:38:511:38:57

of the most dramatic proposals.

We

suggest professional drug testing in

1:38:571:39:02

city centres and in venues possibly,

which has very successfully been

1:39:021:39:08

done by The Loop in this country and

it has been successful in other

1:39:081:39:11

countries. It takes the very

harmful, dangerous drugs out of the

1:39:111:39:16

market. While drug use is pretty

constant, at the moment drug deaths

1:39:161:39:21

are up, hospitalisations are up and

there is a huge cost to the NHS and

1:39:211:39:25

police.

Would you say this is

urgent?

Getting more urgent. It is a

1:39:251:39:29

growing trend in something we need

to address.

Director of The Loop,

1:39:291:39:36

Fiona Measham, currently set up

testing centres that UK music

1:39:361:39:40

festivals. How successful is that

and how do you measure success?

We

1:39:401:39:44

have looked at a number of

indicators, whether people are being

1:39:441:39:49

mis-sold drugs, whether there are

dangerous contaminants circulating

1:39:491:39:52

on site and weather when people hear

the test results they dispose of the

1:39:521:39:57

drugs themselves or give us the

drugs to be disposed of by police.

1:39:571:40:02

About one in five give over drugs

for disposal or destruction because

1:40:021:40:05

they do not want to take them when

they find out what is in them.

Only

1:40:051:40:11

one in five? About and about another

half of the others take a smaller

1:40:111:40:14

amount. We have the highest

drug-related death rate on record,

1:40:141:40:18

partly relating to high

purity, it

is very good if we can get people to

1:40:181:40:23

take smaller amounts. 100% of the

people we see had previously planned

1:40:231:40:27

on taking back drug, so we can only

reduce that figure.

OK. Is this

1:40:271:40:35

condoning drug use?

It is not

condoning or promoting, it is trying

1:40:351:40:41

to take the harm out of it,

accepting it is a reality but we

1:40:411:40:43

need to save lives.

Simpa, you use

drugs regularly. Would you like to

1:40:431:40:49

see the drugs you are about to take

tested first?

I wouldn't highly. I

1:40:491:40:55

took advantage of Fiona's The Loop

at a festival last year. As Fiona

1:40:551:41:03

said, people took less or were more

cautious of consumer product. -- I

1:41:031:41:08

would, entirely.

Does it ever feel

like it was complicit in your

1:41:081:41:17

illegal drug-taking?

I was going to

anyway. I have the sovereignty of my

1:41:171:41:22

consciousness, I am an adult, it is

the law. Prohibition is the problem.

1:41:221:41:27

These substances are relatively safe

themselves. When they are covered

1:41:271:41:31

with adult rents and nefarious

individuals are trying to profit, of

1:41:311:41:34

course they would use PMA instead of

ecstasy, concrete dust and cocaine.

1:41:341:41:39

That is why we need a regulated

market. I applaud this avid but I

1:41:391:41:44

think it is the first step of a

journey of a thousand.

We are joined

1:41:441:41:49

by the Police and Crime Commissioner

for the West Midlands, you are doing

1:41:491:41:53

this this summer, why?

Because we

want to prevent harm to people, the

1:41:531:41:57

police's job is to keep people safe.

We want the night-time economy to

1:41:571:42:01

work well and we want people to

enjoy festivals. This provides the

1:42:011:42:06

police with extra assistance in

finding out and getting early

1:42:061:42:09

warning of substances that may be

coming onto the street that are

1:42:091:42:13

dangerous to young people, so

instead of targeting the young

1:42:131:42:18

people who have the drug, we can

target instead people pushing these

1:42:181:42:22

drugs and manufacturing them.

Last

year Theresa May, the Prime

1:42:221:42:28

Minister, said it is right that we

continue to fight the war against

1:42:281:42:31

drugs, citing the incredible damage

drugs can do to families and

1:42:311:42:35

individuals concerned. Critics might

say of you that you have simply

1:42:351:42:40

given up?

The war on drugs is not

working at the moment. Every three

1:42:401:42:46

days in the West Midlands someone

dies from a drug overdose, drug

1:42:461:42:50

gangs are fighting drug wars. The

war is not being won. It is clearly

1:42:501:42:55

not working, when things are not

working you look at alternative ways

1:42:551:42:59

of approaching them. This is one

method of looking at an alternative

1:42:591:43:03

method. The report that I brought

out last month has been well

1:43:031:43:08

received, I have to say, by

Government ministers, including the

1:43:081:43:12

Home Secretary and the Minister for

the Department of the Home Office

1:43:121:43:14

that I spoke to last week.

What did

the Home Secretary, Amber Rudd, say?

1:43:141:43:20

That we have produced an excellent

report. Some parts of it are

1:43:201:43:24

controversial but there was no

mention of this particular part,

1:43:241:43:27

which I think is a pragmatic,

sensible way of helping young people

1:43:271:43:32

keep safe.

Jeff Smith, do you think

this testing will be rolled out to

1:43:321:43:37

other areas across the country?

I

hope so. We should not just focus on

1:43:371:43:43

the testing, this is a suite of

measures. It is an information

1:43:431:43:48

campaign so clubbers know what they

are getting, it is a number of

1:43:481:43:51

measures that, combined, will reduce

harm in the night-time economy and

1:43:511:43:55

protect people.

We will see what

happens. Your experience is welcome.

1:43:551:44:01

Working dads should be given 12

weeks paternity leave in the first

1:44:011:44:04

year of a baby's life,

with two weeks paterntity leave paid

1:44:041:44:07

at 90% of their salary.

1:44:071:44:08

That's the verdict of MPs who say

Britain must radically reform

1:44:081:44:10

parental leave to encourage more

fathers to take time off work,

1:44:101:44:13

or it will never get to grips

with the gender pay gap.

1:44:131:44:19

Conservative MP and chair

of Parliament's Equalities Committee

1:44:191:44:23

who brought this report out this

morning, Maria Miller,

1:44:231:44:25

is with us now.

1:44:251:44:29

And Sarah Morris, chief people

officer at Aviva, they currently

1:44:291:44:35

offer equal paid parental leave to

both male and female staff.

1:44:351:44:40

Adam Gretton and his daughter,

Florence, who is nearly two.

1:44:401:44:42

Adam also has

a five-year-old son, Oscar.

1:44:421:44:48

And we have Martin Leay

and Rachael Cox,

1:44:481:44:53

and their baby, John,

who is six months old today.

1:44:531:44:56

Martin and Rachael are currently

both on shared parental leave.

1:44:561:44:59

Thank you all very much for coming

on the programme, I want to talk

1:44:591:45:03

about the cost and the changing

culture that might be needed.

1:45:031:45:07

Paternity leave for dads which would

be 90% of their salary for two weeks

1:45:071:45:13

and a separate 12 weeks parental

leave in the first year of the

1:45:131:45:17

child's life, how much would it cost

and who would pay for it?

We are

1:45:171:45:21

putting forward the first proposal

which is two weeks at 90% which we

1:45:211:45:26

believe is going to help more dads

to take

1:45:261:45:33

to take that, it will be paid for by

the Government and employers, and

1:45:361:45:39

the same for the 12 weeks, more of a

recommendation to government as part

1:45:391:45:42

of the review. It is a cost we have

to take on because if we don't... We

1:45:421:45:46

know that 50% of dads are looking to

down trade their jobs, and at a time

1:45:461:45:50

when we have a skills shortage, that

is something that would affect

1:45:501:45:54

productivity of the country. To

tackle the gender pay gap, one of

1:45:541:45:58

this government's flagship policies,

if we do not help dads to get the

1:45:581:46:03

balance right, we will never achieve

that. Yes, it is an expensive policy

1:46:031:46:07

but I do not think the country has

any option other than to move

1:46:071:46:10

towards it.

Your company

1:46:101:46:17

towards it.

Your company already

pretty much does this.

Why? We made

1:46:221:46:23

the decision to do it at the end of

last year. It is about levelling the

1:46:231:46:27

playing field. We did not like the

idea men and women had to choose who

1:46:271:46:30

to have time-out. By some men

choosing to take time out, some

1:46:301:46:32

women choose to come back to work on

getting women to return to work is

1:46:321:46:35

important, it is about choice, we

are not judging anybody, but it is

1:46:351:46:39

enabling choice for men and women.

Adam and Florence, what do you think

1:46:391:46:43

of the suggestions today?

I think

they are really good ideas. I think

1:46:431:46:48

it definitely is needed. At the

minute, there are a lot of dads who

1:46:481:46:57

want to take parental leave and they

cannot afford to. I took three

1:46:571:47:02

months off with Florence but that

was unpaid leave, basically. What is

1:47:021:47:07

being proposed today is really

promising. I think more dads will

1:47:071:47:11

take it up. But I think more could

be done to help working parents.

It

1:47:111:47:19

is definitely a good step forward.

Martin and Rachael, you are enjoying

1:47:191:47:25

your time off together, I assume?

We

are, thank you. Joni is a bit tired

1:47:251:47:31

and hungry at the moment, on good

form earlier this morning.

We all

1:47:311:47:36

are, don't worry! What do you think

of this idea of dads having 12 weeks

1:47:361:47:40

parental leave in the first year of

a baby's life?

I think it is a

1:47:401:47:47

fantastic idea, similar to Adam, I

have taken about three months

1:47:471:47:50

myself, but it was unpaid, I get the

statutory shed parental pay which I

1:47:501:47:56

have taken from my wife. If it was

more a matter of course that men can

1:47:561:48:02

do this, that is only a positive

thing for families and for the

1:48:021:48:06

development of children,

particularly at such an early age.

1:48:061:48:09

What about you, Rachael? I am dying

to know who you have given her to.

1:48:091:48:16

She has gone to her nana.

Why has it

been important for you, having your

1:48:161:48:24

baby's Father there?

I think those

first few months with the baby are

1:48:241:48:29

so hard on the month. They are

obviously wonderful, precious times,

1:48:291:48:34

but it is so difficult, sleep

deprivation. -- on the modem. I was

1:48:341:48:42

so grateful to know I would have

Martin with me after the first three

1:48:421:48:46

months so that we could do it

together. The one thing for mothers

1:48:461:48:51

that is really difficult at the

minute is that in order for your

1:48:511:48:54

partner to take this leave, you have

to sacrifice your only. That means

1:48:541:48:58

for me I am going back at nine

months, I cannot take the full 12

1:48:581:49:03

months. Progress in that area would

be really positive.

Maria Miller,

1:49:031:49:08

the Government admitted to your

inquiry it is the flagship shed

1:49:081:49:13

parental leave skin, it is not

meeting its objectives.

The

1:49:131:49:21

Government will make some important

reforms. The inquiry report today

1:49:211:49:27

suggests 12 weeks stand-alone use it

or use it leave for dads which in

1:49:271:49:32

other countries has helped change

the culture not only amongst

1:49:321:49:35

employers who take it more seriously

and do not see it as a detriment to

1:49:351:49:39

someone's career to take dad leave,

but for dads to have the right as

1:49:391:49:43

well and not take time away from

them on spending time with her

1:49:431:49:48

child, as we have just heard. --

time away from mothers.

You will

1:49:481:49:55

have a brilliant time. Thank you,

Adam, Martin, Rachael, Joni,

1:49:551:50:03

Florence.

1:50:031:50:08

It sounds obvious, but hair

is really important to us,

1:50:081:50:10

our self image and self esteem.

1:50:101:50:12

It tells us about our

identity and personal style

1:50:121:50:14

and perhaps especially

so for young adults.

1:50:141:50:18

So losing your hair in your 20s

can be devastating.

1:50:181:50:22

Chedira Eggerue is 23 and wears

a wig to cover her bald patch.

1:50:221:50:30

She's been to meet other young

people who are losing their hair

1:50:311:50:33

for Radio 1 Newsbeat.

1:50:331:50:36

We brought you her

full report earlier.

1:50:361:50:37

Here's a short extract.

1:50:371:50:38

It shows some graphic images of hair

transplants.

1:50:381:50:40

I always cover my bald

patch when I'm out by

1:50:401:50:43

wearing a wig or a hat.

1:50:431:50:44

But it's not so easy

for guys to hide their loss.

1:50:441:50:48

Perry is 23, and first

started losing his hair

1:50:481:50:51

when he was a teenager.

1:50:511:50:52

Hello, everyone.

1:50:521:50:53

My name is Perry and this

is Perry Presents.

1:50:531:51:00

He has male pattern baldness -

by far the most common form

1:51:001:51:03

of hair loss in men.

1:51:031:51:04

So at times like this,

what do you do?

1:51:041:51:07

So I get my phone.

1:51:071:51:08

And obviously I will

look like a mirror.

1:51:081:51:10

OK, so you put your phone on camera?

1:51:101:51:12

Yeah.

1:51:121:51:13

And then I'll check it a bit.

1:51:131:51:16

And obviously you can see now -

really bad, right?

1:51:161:51:18

Yeah.

1:51:181:51:19

And the wind makes it worse.

1:51:191:51:21

So I have my brush.

1:51:211:51:24

Basically just do the same

thing again, restyle it.

1:51:241:51:27

But to be honest with you,

in the wind, it's just life.

1:51:271:51:31

And until I get indoors,

that's just the way it is.

1:51:311:51:34

Tidies it up and we'll

take another selfie.

1:51:341:51:42

You can watch a full version of Too

Young To Go Bald on BBC iPlayer.

1:51:451:51:52

We can speak now to Perry O'Bree,

a 23-year-old vlogger

1:51:521:51:55

who you saw in the film there,

Paigey Cakey, a rapper

1:51:551:51:58

who got a hair transplant

after losing some of her hair,

1:51:581:52:00

and Dr Greg Williams, the president

of the British Association

1:52:001:52:03

of Hair Restoration Surgery

who are warning there isn't enough

1:52:031:52:05

regulation of the hair

transplant industry.

1:52:051:52:06

Thank you all very much for coming

on the programme. Good to see you.

1:52:061:52:10

Perry, what is it like?

I first

started losing my hair at university

1:52:101:52:15

and there was a lot of pressure, you

go on lots of nights out, I was

1:52:151:52:21

about 20, 21, basically, the peak of

party, and I started to notice a

1:52:211:52:30

tiny hole in my hair and you think,

my goodness, and of the world, you

1:52:301:52:35

start to question yourself, your

confidence. But the more I talk

1:52:351:52:40

about, the better I feel -- end of

the world.

Why is the better you

1:52:401:52:45

feel?

I kept it in for so long, I

hid it through college, it is just

1:52:451:52:51

talking about it now, a huge weight

off my shoulder, it was like a

1:52:511:52:56

massive life, living with it for

years. Every time I talk about it, I

1:52:561:53:00

feel amazing.

Keeping it quiet and

not confronting it, if you like, it

1:53:001:53:05

was a burden?

Eating you up inside.

I found the best thing to start off

1:53:051:53:11

with was talking to your best

friends, the people who support you

1:53:111:53:15

the most, your friends, family, and

slowly talking to more people about

1:53:151:53:19

it until you feel that you can walk

the street happily and not worry

1:53:191:53:24

about your hair. I am constantly

playing with it. While I have got

1:53:241:53:29

it, I will keep it that way. I love

my hair, it is part of me. The

1:53:291:53:34

biggest thing is you feel you might

lose part of you, your personality,

1:53:341:53:39

and there is a lot of pressure with

social media and Instagram for us to

1:53:391:53:42

look good. People tend to assume

that hair can be part of it but

1:53:421:53:49

through doing this documentary and

talking to different people, I have

1:53:491:53:52

learnt it is not always... You do

not always have to have hair to look

1:53:521:53:57

good.

He will often ask, is it worse

for a woman. How do you answer that,

1:53:571:54:04

Paigey?

In a sense, it is worse for

a female because hair is kind of

1:54:041:54:10

beauty, for a woman, you love your

hair, you love your make-up commie

1:54:101:54:13

field that is what makes you you and

beautiful. Losing my hair, I did not

1:54:131:54:19

feel beautiful, I felt very insecure

and I felt like I was way too young

1:54:191:54:23

to lose my hair, it was the

insecurity I saw every day and I did

1:54:231:54:28

not have a lot of confidence. I was

looking in the mirror thinking, I am

1:54:281:54:32

too young. Little hairstyles,

friends putting their hair in a

1:54:321:54:38

barn, I did not have any hair on the

sides, I could not do that, it was

1:54:381:54:42

horrible -- in a

1:54:421:54:49

horrible -- in a bun.

What do you

say to people who say, it is just

1:54:491:54:53

superficial, what is the problem?

It

is a big thing and as you were

1:54:531:54:57

saying, it does feel like my

personality. Losing my hair, I was

1:54:571:55:02

losing my personality, who I was.

It

is part of you, isn't it? Let me

1:55:021:55:07

read some messages before I bring in

Greg. Slow tablet! I will talk to

1:55:071:55:15

Greg while it sorts itself out.

What

was your worry? If you can believe

1:55:151:55:19

it, the law is very vague in the UK

as to who can practice medicine and

1:55:191:55:24

surgery.

It happens in cosmetic

surgery, I can believe it.

It is a

1:55:241:55:31

form of cosmetic surgery and animals

have more protection in veterinary

1:55:311:55:35

medicine laws than humans with

cosmetic surgery and hair transplant

1:55:351:55:40

surgery. It is very vague who can do

it, and it is becoming increasingly

1:55:401:55:43

popular and there are a lot of

websites offering it trying to

1:55:431:55:47

entice patients, a lot of misleading

information. We need some statutory

1:55:471:55:54

regulation about who can practice

hair transplant surgery and what can

1:55:541:55:56

be advertised.

I will come back to

that. Messages, and he says, I'm a

1:55:561:56:03

DJ, 53, no less stressed to be

losing my hair than anyone younger.

1:56:031:56:07

I had a hair transplant in October

last year and it looks much better.

1:56:071:56:11

Less hair means less work on this

scene. Tony says, I began losing

1:56:111:56:16

head in my late 30s and it has now

gone, we can send men to the moon

1:56:161:56:22

and bring them back, we can

transplant faces but we cannot cure

1:56:221:56:25

a bald head.

1:56:251:56:35

a bald head. Liz says, she lost her

hair after pulling it out was

1:56:351:56:37

suffering from severe stress because

of being abused as a child, she says

1:56:371:56:40

she has spent her whole life in

therapy and only last week confessed

1:56:401:56:42

it to her doctor, she now has a bald

patch three inches across and my

1:56:421:56:45

abuser got away with it. My hair is

so embarrassing and it has ruined my

1:56:451:56:49

self-confidence. I am now bald and

56 years of age. Sad to hear someone

1:56:491:56:54

being so bothered about hair loss,

saying it is shallow, I wonder

1:56:541:57:01

whether they have a full head of

hair? Cosmetic surgery, reputable

1:57:011:57:06

cosmetic surgeons, they have been

trying for years to get statutory

1:57:061:57:11

regulations, that has not happened,

is there much chance of anybody

1:57:111:57:15

listening to you, I do not mean that

rudely? You know what I mean!

I

1:57:151:57:19

think you are right, the answer is

probably no, we need to educate the

1:57:191:57:23

public so they know what to ask when

they are choosing a hair transplant

1:57:231:57:29

surgery or clinic.

Is there a

standard mark or list? We have not

1:57:291:57:33

got a lot of time.

The British

Association of hair Restoration

1:57:331:57:38

surgery has a website giving advice.

Just last month, a joint council for

1:57:381:57:43

cosmetic practitioners was launched,

it has a voluntary register, you

1:57:431:57:50

will be able to see if someone is

registered and if you are registered

1:57:501:57:54

you have to comply with the

standards authority on hair

1:57:541:57:58

transplant surgery and they are very

good.

Future for you in terms of the

1:57:581:58:02

way you look, how are you thinking?

Ever since I got a hair transplant,

1:58:021:58:07

I feel very empowered as a woman

with short hair and I am rocking it

1:58:071:58:11

and I will not let it be me, I will

be myself and let my hair grow back

1:58:111:58:16

and be confident.

Thank you so much

for coming on the programme. Thank

1:58:161:58:19

you. Thank you very much for

watching. We are back tomorrow at

1:58:191:58:25

9am. Have a lovely day.

1:58:251:58:28

Actor Michael Sheen tells Victoria why he is taking an aim at high cost 'rent to own' firms.

Rapper Paigey Cakey explains why she decided to get a hair transplant in her twenties.

Plus we ask if the world's seen the last of the northern white rhino following the death of the last surviving male.


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