05/07/2011 am.pm


05/07/2011

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Transcript


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Good afternoon and will come to the programme. The first Minister's

:00:24.:00:31.

Questions is coming up in a moment. We also have the latest news on the

:00:31.:00:33.

so-called Liberal Democrats to. If you would like to send us your

:00:33.:00:40.

comments about any of the stories will be talking about, please do.

:00:40.:00:50.
:00:50.:00:54.

The contact details are on the screen. Vaughan Roderick is here

:00:54.:01:00.

with the latest on the Liberal Democrat to, Vaughan -- you have a

:01:00.:01:09.

piece of paper in your hand. This is the report from the Standards

:01:09.:01:13.

Commissioner setting out facts of the case against Andrew Roberts and

:01:13.:01:21.

John Dixon. In the first case of Aled Roberts, he sets out what

:01:21.:01:27.

happened quite simply. He sets out a pattern of events where Aled

:01:27.:01:36.

Roberts did attempt to check whether he was part of the pricing

:01:36.:01:42.

tribunal in North Wales and was misled by the fact that the Welsh

:01:42.:01:45.

link on the Electoral Commission website had not been updated to

:01:45.:01:52.

take in a change in the list. Gerard Elias says that he is

:01:52.:01:57.

convinced that Aled Roberts did everything that could reasonably be

:01:57.:02:03.

expected of any candidate to make sure that he was within the rules.

:02:03.:02:11.

What about John Dixon? The findings on John Dixon are more problematic.

:02:11.:02:17.

The job he was barred from taking was with the Care Council and he

:02:17.:02:22.

was paid �3,000 here. He also admits that he did not look at the

:02:22.:02:30.

list. He assumed he was OK. He had stood in parliamentary and local

:02:30.:02:35.

elections before and assumed that because it was things like the army

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and the Civil Service, that the job in the care council would not count.

:02:39.:02:47.

That seems to be a less convincing case. It is in the hands of the

:02:47.:02:50.

Assembly Members now will take a vote tomorrow. Do we know whether

:02:50.:02:54.

that but will go ahead? It might be put back for a week because this

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report only came out this morning. Talking to Assembly Members, it

:03:01.:03:05.

seems clear to me that any hope John Dixon had of returning to the

:03:05.:03:12.

Assembly must be fading now. As far as Aled Roberts is concerned, I

:03:12.:03:15.

think it would be a knife-edge affair but I suspect he would be

:03:15.:03:22.

out as well. But after reading this report, some Assembly Members might

:03:22.:03:29.

change their minds. While we have been chatting, the first Minister's

:03:29.:03:38.

Questions has been taking place so we will catch up with that now.

:03:39.:03:43.

What are the Government's plans to increase the number of jobs located

:03:43.:03:47.

in a different regional offices? are reviewing the situation at

:03:47.:03:52.

present but we do want to ensure a large percentage of jobs are

:03:52.:04:02.
:04:02.:04:03.

outside of Cardiff. The intention of opening regional offices was to

:04:03.:04:10.

devolve jobs from Cardiff and not to centralise jobs across North

:04:10.:04:14.

Wales in one central position. May I ask whether you are discussing

:04:14.:04:18.

plans to close the Carnarvon officer present and how many

:04:18.:04:22.

Government jobs have been devolved from Cardiff to Llandudno?

:04:22.:04:29.

situation has not changed since I spoke with the former Deputy First

:04:29.:04:32.

Minister before the election. There will be a statement by the end of

:04:32.:04:38.

the month. Do you accept that members of the public in North

:04:38.:04:41.

Wales may feel justified in suspecting that the previous

:04:41.:04:48.

Assembly Government was engaging in an exercise in PR in opening its

:04:48.:04:53.

multi-million pounds offices in Llandudno Junction, with the

:04:53.:04:58.

promise of 650 jobs being brought to the region? In the light of the

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news that the Government is considering a plans to close other

:05:02.:05:06.

Assembly offices in Bangor, Co Cavan, Mold, St Asaph the Wrexham,

:05:06.:05:15.

can you confirm that not only staff but also those attempting to access

:05:15.:05:25.
:05:25.:05:25.

advice at the centres will be forced to travel? What assessment

:05:25.:05:31.

have you made of the likely number of redundancies? The redundancies

:05:31.:05:39.

are not something we've looked at. Some offices will be closed as a

:05:39.:05:45.

result of the opening of the offices in Llandudno and avarice it.

:05:45.:05:55.
:05:55.:06:02.

-- Aberystwyth. We are considering the situation very carefully.

:06:02.:06:08.

is responsible for the strategy of locating offices for the last

:06:08.:06:13.

Government? Is it you as First Minister or the Civil Service? If

:06:13.:06:17.

you are responsible, were you take the opportunity today to say a word

:06:18.:06:22.

of encouragement to people in mid- Wales and less with that every

:06:22.:06:28.

regional office there will stay open? I am responsible and as I

:06:28.:06:32.

have said, the situation has not changed since I spoke to the Deputy

:06:32.:06:40.

First Minister before the elections. What is the Government doing to

:06:40.:06:45.

provide community safety in Wales? We work closely with the community

:06:45.:06:50.

safety partnerships in Wales to tackle crime, anti-social behaviour,

:06:50.:06:59.

substance misuse, violence against women and domestic abuse. I am sure

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that many of us and the last election heard a vocal campaign

:07:06.:07:11.

from the Police Federation about safety initiatives. They noted that

:07:11.:07:16.

crime fell significantly under the last UK Labour Government. Many of

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us share concern about the loss of frontline jobs because of funding

:07:21.:07:27.

cuts. In my constituency, we've had several cases of anti-social

:07:27.:07:37.
:07:37.:07:43.

behaviour. People want to see an on-street present. -- presence.

:07:43.:07:53.
:07:53.:08:01.

are aiming to begin deployment of PCAS rose from 2012. One of the

:08:01.:08:10.

concerns in my constituency is with regard to unmanned level crossings.

:08:10.:08:16.

An American tourist was killed 10 years ago and it took six years for

:08:16.:08:26.
:08:26.:08:26.

a package to put -- to be put together. With the introduction of

:08:26.:08:33.

the hourly service on the Cambrian Line, there will be more frequent

:08:33.:08:43.
:08:43.:08:47.

trains running at greater speeds. What specific planning processes is

:08:47.:08:52.

your Government putting in place to ensure the overall risk of

:08:52.:08:58.

accidents is mitigated? We work closely with a Network Rail to make

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sure the crossings we have a safe. They have been some accidents and

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fatalities at different level crossings across Wales over the

:09:08.:09:17.

past 10 or 15 years. Crossings need to be as safe as possible and we

:09:18.:09:27.

will be guided by Network Rail. Thousands of families across Wales

:09:27.:09:32.

live in housing provided by councils and housing associations.

:09:32.:09:36.

A vast majority look after their homes and take great pride -- pride

:09:36.:09:40.

in their properties. Unfortunately, a small number are not so

:09:40.:09:50.
:09:50.:09:53.

responsible. What efforts are you making to ensure that we better

:09:53.:09:59.

enforced tenancy agreements? We are working with all social landlords

:09:59.:10:09.

to tackle problems of anti-social behaviour. Wrexham has recently

:10:09.:10:11.

become the first of its authority in Wales to meet the Wales housing

:10:11.:10:21.
:10:21.:10:29.

management standard and that is something that we will come. Paul

:10:29.:10:34.

Davies. Last week, you denied that waiting lists are getting worse

:10:34.:10:39.

under your watch. But official figures show that 227,000 patients

:10:39.:10:44.

were waiting to start treatment in the NHS when you became First

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Minister. 341,000 are now waiting. That is a rise of 50 %. Were you

:10:50.:11:00.
:11:00.:11:05.

now apologised to the people of Extra money was put into

:11:05.:11:09.

Orthopaedic Surgery at some months ago. And it comes to deferral

:11:09.:11:14.

treatment times, we are doing better than England. It is as

:11:14.:11:24.
:11:24.:11:27.

simple as that. When it comes to wait over 52 weeks, 13,400 patients

:11:27.:11:37.

in Wales wait more than 52 weeks. In Wales that figure is 600. People

:11:37.:11:44.

in Wales have much to be grateful for when it comes to the NHS.

:11:44.:11:54.
:11:54.:11:55.

Clearly the Welsh First Minister does not want to talk about the NHS.

:11:55.:12:02.

The First Minister has been asked on numerous occasions about the

:12:02.:12:09.

Welsh NHS. He then went on to talk about the NHS in England. There are

:12:10.:12:13.

another and 14,000 more patients waiting for treatment than they

:12:13.:12:19.

were when you became First Minister. The First Minister told us last

:12:19.:12:24.

year that we have to make sure there is enough money available for

:12:24.:12:28.

the health service over the next three years. Can the First Minister

:12:28.:12:34.

explain why if there was enough money in November that an extra �65

:12:34.:12:39.

million has been put in to try and stem the tide in waiting lists was

:12:39.:12:44.

a lot --. We know orthopaedic waiting-lists have increased. They

:12:44.:12:51.

run increase in demand for services because people are living longer.

:12:51.:12:58.

We have made resources available to deal with that. I am more than

:12:58.:13:04.

happy to talk about treatment times. I am more than happy to talk about

:13:04.:13:11.

the fact that GPs in Wales are more happy to work in Wales. The Labour

:13:11.:13:15.

Party needs to understand the scales of the challenges facing the

:13:15.:13:25.
:13:25.:13:25.

health service. The government's chosen auditors say plans for

:13:25.:13:31.

efficiency savings will not be enough. When the First Minister

:13:31.:13:35.

brings his much delayed legislative programme to this Chamber next week,

:13:35.:13:39.

will you ensure it contains specific proposals to meet an

:13:39.:13:47.

increased demand in the Welsh NHS? It is a question of careful

:13:47.:13:52.

management and prudent government. We have put forward a Budget that

:13:52.:14:02.
:14:02.:14:08.

is a good Budget. We have shown that GPs in Wales do not want to

:14:08.:14:14.

pursue plans being pursued elsewhere. The Welsh government

:14:14.:14:20.

needs to act to reduce the demand on the Welsh NHS at the moment.

:14:20.:14:23.

Five and a half 1,000 people die every year from tobacco related

:14:23.:14:32.

illnesses. The NHS in Wales spent �500 million a year treating

:14:32.:14:39.

diabetes. Can the First Minister confirm that his legislative

:14:39.:14:43.

programme will contain specific measures to help reduce demand for

:14:43.:14:49.

the NHS by shifting the focus to preventative health? This is an

:14:49.:14:52.

enormous change of tail compared to what we were hearing before the

:14:52.:15:01.

election. Many organisations talked about a cosy relationship with the

:15:01.:15:10.

government. If you have bad housing, you have bad health. You have to

:15:10.:15:20.
:15:20.:15:22.

make sure that we look at health in the round. We will look at the

:15:22.:15:31.

causes of bad health rather than the sticky plaster approach.

:15:31.:15:35.

23rd June you suggested you would send me a car be of your manifesto

:15:35.:15:39.

so that I could understand what your policies were. I have now read

:15:39.:15:45.

the manifesto and I now know in general terms what you are

:15:45.:15:51.

proposing to do on health. But it is still the position that does a

:15:51.:15:54.

very generalised statements that need to be turned into delivery

:15:54.:16:01.

target and an opportunity for us to scrutinise those properly. If there

:16:01.:16:05.

is no information there about what your priorities are in terms of

:16:05.:16:10.

time skiers, we have to pick up bits and pieces from other sources.

:16:10.:16:15.

I read an article written by the Minister for Health on 23rd May

:16:15.:16:19.

when she said it reduced Budget from Westminster means we need to

:16:19.:16:24.

focus our priorities and where savings can be made. Can you tell

:16:25.:16:29.

us what those priorities are and what savings you have identified?

:16:29.:16:35.

There are challenges and this is true. It is a challenge the NHS has

:16:35.:16:42.

to face. People need to get treatment as close to their homes

:16:42.:16:50.

as possible. We want to make sure we get best value for money from

:16:50.:16:54.

the NHS. People need to get the treatment they need as close to

:16:54.:17:00.

their homes as possible. I have invited you again to tell us what

:17:00.:17:03.

your priorities are and what the savings are and frankly you have

:17:03.:17:10.

not told us. Let us examine a specific item which was contained

:17:10.:17:16.

in your manifesto. You said that waiting times in accident and

:17:16.:17:20.

emergency at to be reduced. Can you tell us today what your target for

:17:20.:17:27.

reduction is and when is that to be achieved? We are working on the

:17:27.:17:32.

targets as we speak. They will be targets and a delivery plan will be

:17:32.:17:36.

produced in due course. Those targets will be able to be

:17:36.:17:40.

scrutinised by this Assembly. That is quite proper. One of the

:17:40.:17:45.

problems that exists in accident and emergency is that some

:17:45.:17:49.

departments are too small for the numbers will go through those

:17:49.:17:54.

departments from time to time. That is why we have put in place things

:17:54.:18:00.

to deal with that problem. Again, we do not have exactly what your

:18:00.:18:05.

targets are. We do not know how we can scrutinise how effective that

:18:05.:18:10.

policy is. Is it not true that we are in the third month of this

:18:10.:18:14.

government and we still do not know what your priorities in the field

:18:14.:18:18.

of health are and what you would tend to achieve by when and how the

:18:18.:18:24.

money will be spent. I have tried to to work out what you have been

:18:24.:18:29.

saying on health because I have been on your government website.

:18:29.:18:34.

There are 20 press statements there. Apart from making statements about

:18:34.:18:38.

what had been agreed by the last government, there is very little

:18:38.:18:46.

there about your direction of travel. We have had no debate on

:18:46.:18:52.

health policy. We have only a responded to a commission. There

:18:53.:18:56.

are are no plans to have this debate before the recess. Given

:18:56.:19:01.

that 40% of your Budget is spent on health, the you not think the

:19:01.:19:08.

people of Wales are entitled to know what you plan Sark? -- plans

:19:08.:19:18.
:19:18.:19:18.

are? The target continues to be above the 90% level. We know in

:19:18.:19:27.

terms of emergency departments, before our target has seen 91% of

:19:27.:19:37.
:19:37.:19:38.

people seen within that target. In terms of other services, targets

:19:38.:19:43.

are similar. I understand you are responding to questions. But we

:19:43.:19:48.

want the government to set out its programme. It is not right that the

:19:48.:19:53.

opposition parties have to ask questions and tried out this

:19:53.:19:56.

information bit by bit. It is clear to me you want to reach the recess

:19:56.:20:02.

without having said too much but you hope that nobody notices. But

:20:02.:20:06.

people are or were read out there because they want to know what the

:20:06.:20:11.

sense of direction of travel is. I agree with the point made by Paul

:20:11.:20:15.

Davies that waiting-lists are getting longer. We need to improve

:20:15.:20:20.

treatment for patients suffering from strokes and heart attacks. We

:20:20.:20:24.

also need to improve the dignity of people who need palliative care.

:20:24.:20:30.

All those art crucial for the people of Wales. I am now giving

:20:30.:20:34.

you a final opportunity, we before the recess set out what your plans

:20:34.:20:38.

are for the health service in Wales so that we can have proper

:20:38.:20:43.

scrutiny? Saying nothing is a recipe for your cover with to be

:20:43.:20:48.

severely criticised. -- for your government to be severely

:20:48.:20:58.
:20:58.:21:00.

It is all based and ideas that have come from that the Government's

:21:00.:21:10.
:21:10.:21:11.

manifesto. I was happy and proud to work alongside the party opposite

:21:11.:21:18.

in Government and secured a Yes vote in March. But there were no

:21:18.:21:28.
:21:28.:21:30.

ideas on their part as to how that money would be used. Order. When it

:21:31.:21:34.

came to the party opposite, there was nothing in their manifesto

:21:34.:21:43.

about how we should take for our new powers. Leader of the Welsh

:21:44.:21:49.

Liberal Democrats, Kirsty Williams. You have spent a great deal of time

:21:49.:21:54.

since the election talking about the need for delivery and your key

:21:54.:21:58.

mechanism for ensuring this delivery was the commitment in your

:21:58.:22:01.

manifesto to establish a First Minister's delivery unit at the

:22:01.:22:06.

heart of the last Government. On 23rd June, I tabled a series of

:22:06.:22:12.

written questions asking the basic details of how this unit was to be

:22:12.:22:22.
:22:22.:22:23.

set up. The answer to all those questions came back in a single

:22:23.:22:27.

statement that you would make a statement before the end of this

:22:27.:22:37.
:22:37.:22:38.

term. Could you confirm that is the case? There will be a statement.

:22:38.:22:42.

am glad the Minister has given a verbal commitment to the Chamber

:22:42.:22:46.

this afternoon because it is not done the business statement that is

:22:46.:22:55.

currently published on the website. During the election, the delivery

:22:55.:23:05.
:23:05.:23:07.

unit, you said, would enable you to publish issues around a performance.

:23:07.:23:12.

Given that a statement is fast approaching, I am sure you'll be

:23:12.:23:20.

able to give us more information. How regularly and how often will

:23:20.:23:25.

you publish reports full-year delivery unit? And would be

:23:25.:23:30.

available for Assembly can -- committee to scrutinise? For will

:23:30.:23:40.
:23:40.:23:42.

be as much transparency as possible. -- there will be. The unit is now

:23:42.:23:48.

ready and will continue its work during the course of the recess.

:23:48.:23:52.

do regret that now the Minister has clarified her intention that we are

:23:53.:23:58.

only to get a written statement. The First Minister has set his

:23:58.:24:01.

reputation and delivery and he has set up the delivery unit as the key

:24:01.:24:07.

mechanism for ensuring that happens. Given that it is -- this is such an

:24:07.:24:11.

important new development, it would not be unreasonable that such a

:24:11.:24:15.

statement detailing how that unit will work, what its form and

:24:15.:24:19.

function and its relationship with this Chamber will be, would be

:24:19.:24:25.

appropriate for this floor. Perhaps the first Mr could tell us what the

:24:25.:24:30.

relationship will be but how it intends to work with outside bodies.

:24:30.:24:33.

Local a authorities spend over �4 billion each year at delivering

:24:33.:24:41.

services on behalf of the large population. Could the First

:24:41.:24:43.

Minister tell us what the relationship will be between the

:24:43.:24:49.

delivery unit and bodies such as that. It is designed to make sure

:24:49.:24:59.
:24:59.:25:00.

the Welsh Government delivers on its targets. I am more than happy

:25:00.:25:08.

to be scrutinised over the delivery unit. If I could press you finally

:25:08.:25:14.

on how the delivery unit will prioritise its work, you will be

:25:14.:25:17.

aware that there has been a vacuum in recent weeks about what the

:25:17.:25:21.

Government's priorities for tackling the many problems that a

:25:21.:25:28.

face and the last Government at present. In a written statement,

:25:28.:25:32.

will you be clear as to what the priorities for the delivery unit

:25:32.:25:37.

will be in ensuring that receipt the turnaround in performance of

:25:37.:25:41.

the health service, the education system and the Welsh economy? Could

:25:41.:25:47.

you apply those properties in that written statement. The objective is

:25:47.:25:57.
:25:57.:25:57.

to make sure that all arms of Government are working effectively.

:25:57.:26:05.

The delivery unit is answerable to meet and it'll work to my

:26:05.:26:08.

department and I will be accountable for the decisions taken

:26:08.:26:18.
:26:18.:26:20.

by the delivery unit. We now move back to members questions. Question

:26:20.:26:25.

3, Gwyn Price. What is the Welsh Government doing to have been

:26:25.:26:29.

people into work? Getting young people into work is a key priority

:26:29.:26:39.
:26:39.:26:42.

for us. We are committed to establishing a Welsh jobs fund.

:26:42.:26:47.

Upon being elected to the Assembly, the first group of menace --

:26:47.:26:57.
:26:57.:26:57.

visitors I welcomed was a group of young people from Crosskeys College.

:26:57.:27:01.

But the jobs market is uncertain. EU agree that what is important for

:27:01.:27:06.

the students and Gen people in Wales is that they are equipped

:27:06.:27:11.

with the skills necessary to compete in this jobs market. Can

:27:11.:27:13.

you outline the steps you Government is taking to make sure

:27:13.:27:18.

this happens? I mentioned the world's jobs fund which is due to

:27:19.:27:25.

commence fully by April next year. The traineeship programme will

:27:25.:27:28.

begin on the 1st August. Steps to employment and pathways to

:27:28.:27:35.

apprenticeships together represent a significant commitment to making

:27:35.:27:40.

sure that young people have the opportunities they deserve. It was

:27:40.:27:45.

a very good question posed by the Member for Islwyn. Can I directed

:27:45.:27:52.

attention to the fact that the number of young people in one

:27:52.:27:56.

category has gone up despite initiatives by your Government like

:27:56.:28:00.

the future jobs fund. Would you agree with me that in order to deal

:28:00.:28:04.

with the problem of youth unemployment, you have to deal with

:28:04.:28:09.

unemployment as a whole. We need to stimulate real growth in the

:28:09.:28:18.

private sector. Your Government has done very little to achieve that.

:28:19.:28:23.

You are right to say that we need policies to stimulate growth. It's

:28:23.:28:33.
:28:33.:28:36.

a shame that your colleagues in Westminster don't see it that way.

:28:36.:28:39.

The reason why the Welsh jobs fund is being introduced is because of

:28:39.:28:44.

the fact for future jobs fund was go up by your Government. So many

:28:44.:28:50.

young people were left on the scrapheap as result. We were to

:28:50.:28:54.

make sure young people have opportunities but we need the UK

:28:54.:29:01.

Government to play its part as well. We have heard about the public

:29:01.:29:05.

sector and the private sector but I would like to ask you what to

:29:05.:29:09.

Government plans to do to support the third sector in this very

:29:09.:29:14.

important area. You will be aware of the work of the Prince's Trust

:29:14.:29:22.

in promoting jobs and apprenticeships. Do you see scope

:29:22.:29:29.

for increasing the support of the third sector? We have shown over

:29:29.:29:36.

fears that we have been supportive of the third sector. We know the

:29:36.:29:39.

third sector performs a useful role in Welsh society. It is important

:29:39.:29:44.

to realise that the third sector is voluntary and it's important that

:29:44.:29:50.

the third sector does not have to take on board responsibilities that

:29:50.:29:52.

were previously the responsibilities of the state. The

:29:53.:29:57.

third sector needs to play its role in Welsh society but does not have

:29:57.:30:07.
:30:07.:30:07.

responsibilities thrust on it without necessary funding. Will the

:30:07.:30:10.

First Minister outline the Government's plans to tackle Welsh

:30:10.:30:15.

-- youth unemployment in Wales? have outlined the matters we're

:30:15.:30:21.

taking forward but in addition to that, on 12th January, the Minister

:30:21.:30:27.

for skills publish the youth action plan and it focuses on dealing with

:30:27.:30:31.

unemployed and people and helping them to gain skills and work

:30:31.:30:38.

experience. I am keen to bring to your attention the good work

:30:38.:30:48.
:30:48.:30:49.

carried out by the lifelong training service in my constituency.

:30:49.:30:58.

This support 1,500 young people and adults. -- they support. In light

:30:58.:31:02.

of the commitment to training and people across Wales, would you

:31:02.:31:05.

agree that we need to continue developing a mix of opportunities

:31:05.:31:15.
:31:15.:31:20.

we and people in Wales? -- for We have to make sure support is

:31:20.:31:30.
:31:30.:31:33.

tailored to the individual as much as possible. First Minister, we all

:31:33.:31:38.

agree that youth unemployment is still too high in Wales. The

:31:38.:31:43.

reasons for this is varied and complex. With regard to training,

:31:43.:31:48.

the state that in January said the plan should not duplicate or divert

:31:48.:31:58.
:31:58.:31:59.

mainstream provision offered by the W D P. Could you confirm that

:31:59.:32:09.
:32:09.:32:12.

highly effective organisations will not be at side lying but encouraged

:32:12.:32:22.
:32:22.:32:23.

to will provide? We know the third sector is doing very good work. We

:32:23.:32:28.

have to plug the gap that has effectively been left by the UK

:32:28.:32:38.
:32:38.:32:41.

government. Caerphilly County Borough Council is setting up the

:32:41.:32:46.

funding of work experience are trainee funding to address the

:32:46.:32:51.

issue of youth unemployment. We commend the Plaid Cymru Council for

:32:51.:33:00.

this initiative? I commend all councils will take action to deal

:33:00.:33:08.

with youth unemployment. Will the First Minister explain how the

:33:08.:33:13.

Welsh government's Social Justice prerogatives to help alleviate the

:33:13.:33:23.
:33:23.:33:23.

impact of a legal aid cuts made by the UK government? We cannot

:33:23.:33:28.

compensate for UK government decisions that will have a

:33:28.:33:34.

detrimental impact in Wales and will inevitably lead to the court

:33:34.:33:40.

system in Wales becoming more expensive. The legal aid cuts will

:33:40.:33:44.

impact on the most vulnerable in our society. The impact on the

:33:44.:33:50.

committees in the party plead committees will mean women at

:33:50.:33:54.

family matters are those in debt will have little access to the law.

:33:54.:33:59.

I welcome the support the Assembly has given to citizens' advice over

:33:59.:34:04.

the years and other bodies. Does the Minister agree that access to

:34:04.:34:14.
:34:14.:34:15.

the law is a basic human right? people cannot get adequate access

:34:15.:34:21.

to will the law than the system is failing. The cuts in legal aid will

:34:21.:34:29.

lead to just such a situation. Where litigants in person present

:34:29.:34:39.

their case, the cases quite often become a tool or three times longer.

:34:39.:34:43.

While there may be savings in legal aid, they will be a logjam in the

:34:43.:34:53.
:34:53.:34:54.

court system as the court deals with cases which will take longer.

:34:54.:35:01.

It was the Blair government that scrapped the scheme which provided

:35:01.:35:11.
:35:11.:35:11.

legal aid for council tenants in unfit properties. Do you welcome

:35:11.:35:17.

the private sector plans as part of the enterprise project in Flint

:35:17.:35:27.

which offers free legal advice and staffed by solicitors? Hopefully,

:35:27.:35:31.

they will open five or six days a week for anyone wants to come to

:35:31.:35:36.

them for help. If you do feel this is a way of helping the most

:35:36.:35:44.

vulnerable, what role could be welcome at play in promoting this?

:35:44.:35:52.

We will promote any body that offers advice. But there is a

:35:52.:35:56.

difference between providing initial advice and taking a case to

:35:56.:36:00.

court. I would be surprised if any organisation would have the

:36:00.:36:08.

resources to represent people in court. Cases can last many days.

:36:08.:36:11.

There are difficulties in saying to someone I will give you free advice

:36:11.:36:16.

and you have eight case but there is no money to fund the court case.

:36:16.:36:23.

That, in reality, is what many people are facing. Does the First

:36:23.:36:28.

Minister agree that certain groups in Wales will be disproportionately

:36:28.:36:36.

affected by these legal aid cuts? 63% of legal-aid clients receive

:36:36.:36:39.

help in welfare benefits are disabled. It is -- it has already

:36:39.:36:45.

been said that women will be disproportionately affected. Does

:36:45.:36:50.

he not agree that these proposals would turn the clock back 40 years?

:36:50.:37:00.
:37:00.:37:02.

Yes, they will. There is no doubt about that. Divorce and child

:37:03.:37:11.

contact are to all areas where people need advice and guidance.

:37:11.:37:16.

People would come to court and they needed experienced counsel present

:37:16.:37:20.

to make sure they could come to terms with their differences which

:37:20.:37:28.

were often substantial. They would have to find a conclusion without

:37:28.:37:36.

using children or many as weapons. The life prospects of the children

:37:36.:37:44.

and parents will be bleak without this speciality. You outlined the

:37:44.:37:53.

problems that will arise as a result of this as one experienced

:37:53.:38:01.

lawyer said it case that used to take 25 minutes being debated

:38:01.:38:06.

between Lions would now take up to five hours. In rural areas, there

:38:06.:38:12.

is an additional problem. Courts are being closed. There is a

:38:12.:38:17.

combination of cases that will be taking longer and courts closing

:38:17.:38:23.

and less resources available for those cases. During the election,

:38:23.:38:29.

you and your party would say you would defend the people of Wales

:38:29.:38:33.

from the West is the Coalition cuts. What are you going to do to defend

:38:33.:38:41.

the people of Wales against these? There are not enough courts. We

:38:41.:38:46.

said in a one manifesto that we would stand by the people of Wales

:38:46.:38:54.

and ensure we're are in a position to do that. In terms of the corpse,

:38:54.:39:00.

what is important is that there was a time in this country that people

:39:00.:39:10.
:39:10.:39:11.

thought justice was for the people. Now, people have to seek justice.

:39:11.:39:15.

With the First Minister outplaying the Welsh government's plans to

:39:15.:39:24.

export the introduction of a living wage in Wales? The issue of low pay

:39:24.:39:27.

there is a significant problem for many families across the country.

:39:27.:39:33.

One of Welsh Labour's key manifesto commitments was to explore how a

:39:33.:39:40.

living wage could be implemented. We did not agree with me that the

:39:40.:39:46.

introduction of a living wage is a major social issue and it will help

:39:46.:39:51.

to reinforce the message that work pays? It should ensure that more

:39:51.:40:00.

people become of benefits. You are correct. We are considering this at

:40:00.:40:10.

You can see more proceedings for the National Assembly on democracy

:40:10.:40:20.
:40:20.:40:25.

For Roderick is still with us. We have a sit there for the Electoral

:40:25.:40:31.

Commission. It appears Labour seemed to be making an apology.

:40:31.:40:35.

They are apologising for a rare error. That was their failure to

:40:35.:40:42.

update the Welsh link on their website which is what Gerard Elias

:40:42.:40:51.

found caused the problems for Aled Roberts. Learned their also point a

:40:51.:40:58.

finger at the Assembly for not updating and informing them. At the

:40:58.:41:03.

end of the day, it is a matter for the Assembly to vote on. The legal

:41:03.:41:13.
:41:13.:41:21.

I mentioned to one Labour Assembly Member earlier that Kirsty Williams

:41:21.:41:25.

had said in a press conference this morning she did not want to see

:41:25.:41:29.

party politics anywhere near this vote and the Labour Assembly

:41:29.:41:33.

Members said, if she was -- if the show was on the other foot, the

:41:33.:41:40.

Liberal Democrats would be making something of it. I think that is

:41:40.:41:44.

the case. If I had to call it at the moment, I think John Dixon has

:41:45.:41:50.

chances are fading, at the moment I would suspect that Aled Roberts

:41:50.:41:56.

would get the support of the majority of the Assembly Members on

:41:56.:42:05.

the opposition benches. The problem comes with the Labour group. There

:42:05.:42:09.

is a very firm feeling in the Labour group that it is more bother

:42:09.:42:15.

than it's worth. One thing might change that view and that is this.

:42:15.:42:22.

On the basis of the Gerard Elias report, the Lib Dems say they're

:42:22.:42:28.

taking leader -- legal advice because it could be that the

:42:28.:42:34.

assembly's dishes and could be challenged. The legal advice given

:42:34.:42:41.

to Labour says fear is no legal problem if you admit there is no

:42:41.:42:51.

legal problem. It gives Assembly Members plenty to think about.

:42:51.:42:57.

Let's look back on first Minister's Questions. How has the new system

:42:57.:43:06.

bedded down? I still find it a bit odd. It seems sort of artificial

:43:06.:43:12.

but it does run. You had to out of the three more are less going on

:43:12.:43:18.

the same sort of line on health. But yet you still see that

:43:18.:43:21.

closeness from the period when plight can have -- Plaid Cymru were

:43:21.:43:26.

in Government with Labour. I thought Ieuan Wyn Jones felt a bit

:43:26.:43:30.

embarrassed to open an attack on Carwyn Jones and Carwyn Jones said

:43:30.:43:34.

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