07/03/2012 am.pm

Good morning and welcome to AMPM, our twice weekly look at what's

going on in politics in Wales, the UK and beyond. On today's programme.

We'll be at Prime Minister's Questions as protestors gather at

Westminster calling for a cut in fuel duty. And as Carwyn Jones

heads off to the USA, we'll hear what the First Minister hopes to

achieve from his transatlantic visit.

I will be speaking to the three Joining me throughout today's

programme are two AMs, Labour's Jenny Rathbone and the Liberal

Democrat Eluned Parrott welcome to you both we'll have a chat in a

minute, but first, Carwyn Jones heads off to the USA today where

he's leading a Welsh Government trade mission. The First Minister

has been telling our correspondent, Aled ap Dafydd what he hopes to

achieve from the visit. Quite simply to sell Wales. I will

be meeting with tourism operators, those in the defence industry,

automotive, Life Sciences. We have to make sure we sell ourselves to

the world and we tell them that Wales has a great place to invest.

But your approach has been criticised by a committee of MPs in

Westminster who say that getting rid of the WDA has reduced Wales as

his ability in the global marketplace. Do you believe Wales

has an image problem abroad? I don't think we have an image

problem. The Ryder Cup was a tremendous success last year. We

need to make sure we continue to have a presence in important

countries such as the US, China, India. If we don't do it, they will

take no interest in us. In 10 years, 171 foreign owned

factories have closed in Wales. That was a loss of 31,000 jobs.

Let's put this in context. Is a difficult economic situation around

the world. Wales alone hasn't been suffering, so as the rest of Europe.

That is why it's so important we go out there and sell Wales harder to

bring investment in. We've had a good announcement in the fast -- in

the past few weeks. When Alex Salmond goes abroad, he

comes back with contracts. What do you come back with?

Not with a panda because we know that the Scots are paying for the

panda. Over the years, we want more jobs in Wales and more investment.

We want more American companies investing in Wales. That doesn't

happen overnight but is important to keep on having presents --

having presents and looking carefully at opportunities to

create jobs. Let's see what our guests make of

that. Jenny Rathbone, do you see these kind of visits as a

worthwhile from the First Minister? For most definitely. His visit to

China and India are very important. We have to be doing business with

the people in these countries. These are the drivers of the world

economy and they need to make it clear, we need to make it clear to

them that Wales is a very good place to come and do business and

it's important Carwyn Jones does that because Cheryl Gillan won't do

Do you think Wales is a good place to come and do business? Is it a

difficult job, for the First Minister has got?

It shouldn't be difficult. When you go one trade missions, it's

important to do them in a professional manner and the First

Minister did receive criticism for taking just a handful of Welsh

businessman over with them. If we are going to sell Wales, is

important to make Wales look like a credible place to do business. If

you don't do that in a professional manner, businesses will be put off.

One element of criticism has come from the Conservative leader,

Conservative leader Andrew RT Davies.

There is an opportunity to develop flights from Wales.

He is going from Heathrow, of course.

The First Minister has been extremely critical of the

management of Cardiff airport and that is really unfair on the basis

that Cardiff airport is a private business and not run by the Welsh

government. The Welsh government haven't met with the airport to ask

them what their priorities are and how the airport can serve the

people of Wales. If you don't have that discussion, it is unfair to

expect people to deliver. Andrew RT Davies his criticisms are

completely ridiculous. We need to develop the airport but that is

hardly important in relation to the important visit by Carwyn Jones to

the United States and when I last checked, there aren't any direct

flights to the US from Cardiff airport so he is going from

Heathrow. It's a completely ridiculous side issue to how we

build on the success we already have in Wales and attract people.

We have a fantastic aerospace industry in North Wales and an

amazing aluminium Company in Anglesey, which is also doing work

for the defence industry in the United States. Those are the things

we can demonstrate we can have the skilled workforce that people might

want to take advantage of of. The other question, Carwyn Jones

has highlighted and Jenny Rathbone has repeated the kind of businesses

he will speak to. Is there an argument he should be attracting

other kinds of businesses? I think what's critical when you go

to try and attract inward investment is you target it

carefully towards the supply chains and the value chains that we have

in the Welsh economy. You want to attract businesses to Wales who are

going to be embedded in the local community. We need to make sure the

businesses we attract are the ones who will be able to use local

businesses to feed their supply and their purchasing so it is sensible

to focus on specific sectors. Thank you. Are we will be back with

you later. Time to find out what's happening in the Senedd today. Over

to the Oriel and Mark Hannaby. Good morning. Another interesting

afternoon in prospect. First of all, we have questions to ministers.

Today that is to defer -- to the health minister, Lesley Griffiths,

and the Council general, he is the most senior legal adviser to the

Assembly Government. Following that, there is a cross-party debate. A

motion put forward from members from different parties. It is on

the issue of the national transport plan and in particular calling on

the government to provide within that plan funding for low carbon

transport within rural areas. After that, the Conservative nomination

debate will take place. They are upset about something that they say

it exposes in ideological difference between themselves and

the Labour government. We don't hear much about ideological

differences any more but it is to do with council tax. In England,

George Osborne has provided an amount of money to enable councils

to freeze Castle tax in the coming year. As a consequence, �39 million

has come to Wales which could have facilitators something similar here

but the Assembly Government have decided to spend the money

different day and they have allocated it to education as part

of a deed -- as part of a deal they did with the Lib Democrats to pass

the budget. More money will go to each child on free school meals.

They think that is a better use of the money and point out council tax

is lower in Wales and England anyway. The Conservatives think

that money should have gone to local authorities and into our

pockets. I gather you have spoken to Janet Finch Saunders about this.

I will be interested to hear what she had got to say about this. On

the end of that debate, there is the plight Cymru debate on capital

projects. They are concerned that not enough money is going into

schools and hospitals. The government want to see those

stimulating the economy. Plaid Cymru are suggesting there should

be capital projects funded from outside that Welsh block of funding

from white torso it will be interesting to see what they are

stipulating -- from Whitehall. This afternoon there is a debate from

the Labour Democrat AEM, Aled Roberts. It is entitled improving

the acoustics in the classroom. You can find out even more, if that

were possible after that superb demonstration from the memory,

about what is happening at the Assembly on our online coverage.

From a grey Cardiff Bay, we will head off to a foggy Westminster

where our correspondent will cut through the fog for us. Good

morning. Vince Cable is making the headlines

today. It is uncomfortable reading for the government.

The Business Secretary and senior Liberal Democrat has been busy. He

has written a letter to David Cameron and Nick Clegg. It has

found its way to the papers overnight and has attracted

attention in Westminster. It says, the big problem with the coalition

government at the UK level is it hasn't got a strategic vision, a

proper industrial strategy as to how the economy will grow. The

entire political plan is said to cut the budget deficit and allow

the private sector to grow but those cable says it isn't clear how

the second part will happen. -- Vince Cable. There are good

companies around the UK, he says, that haven't produced anything on

the level of Google or Apple and we shall be asking ourselves why not.

We must be doing something wrong as a government. And happy reading for

the Deputy Prime Minister -- and happy reading. He goes on to

suggest the World Bank of Scotland which was bailed out by the

taxpayer should be broken up and part of it used as an investment

bank to help British businesses get a foot up the ladder and invest in

their products and marketing. Breaking up RBS is and what the

Treasury wants to do. They want to see it get itself on its feet and

selling of to the private sector and getting return for the taxpayer

Investment. The only other figure I've heard calling for RBS to be

broken up is John Redwood, an unlikely bedfellow for Vince Cable.

Why does it matter what he thinks, you might wonder? Vince Cable is

the grit in the oyster as far as the Liberal Democrats are concerned.

Activists feel more comfortable with the coalition knowing that

Vince Cable is more from the left of the party and is making

decisions at Cabinet level and keeping the flame alive in the

coalition. That is why he is such a pivotal figure in the Cabinet and

why so many newspapers have but his remarks on the front page for us

stop if they keep landing on the front page, one wonders how long he

will continue in the Cabinet. The budget is a fortnight today.

Many people watching to see whether the Chancellor will change his tune

on child benefit? A couple of years ago the

Chancellor announced that in future, people who've paid the higher rate

of tax, earning over 42 and a half �1,000 a year, -- �42,500 a year.

He said higher earners would have to make sacrifices. The problem

with the policy is there is an anomaly in that one partner is

earning just over that threshold, the other partner isn't working at

all, then they would lose their child benefit but if both partners

were working and earning �40,000 each a year, they would keep their

child benefits. A lot of Tory MPs are unhappy with this anomaly and

David Cameron has called it a bit of a cliff edge with people around

that threshold. There is talk around Westminster's corridors as

to how George Osborne can maybe address that issue. The trouble is,

if he does do any sort of a U-turn, you will have to find money from

somewhere else to reduce the deficit and there are pressures on

him with people wanting to get rid of the 50 be additional rate of tax.

The Liberal Democrats, Vince Cable, will be saying, we should put

something else in place, may be a mansion tax. That is an old Lib Dem

policy but not very polis -- not very popular with Tory policies.

Difficult negotiations going on between the coalition partners and

the budget is only two weeks away. Thank you. We will speak to you

again in 15 minutes for Prime Minister's questions. Don't forget

you can get in touch with us via Tomorrow is International Women's

Day. Yesterday in the National Assembly, most of the 25 female

Assembly Members gathered on the steps, led by the Presiding Officer,

Rosemary Butler, for a photo-shoot to mark the event which is a day of

global celebration for the social We'll hear more about International

Women's Day later in the programme. And still to come on am.pm - we'll

be going live to the House of Commons for Prime Minister's

Questions. That's at midday. Time to go back to Mark in the

Oriel, where he's joined by one of the three Plaid Cymru leadership

hopefuls. I am delighted to say that I am

joined by one of the three contenders. How important is Plaid

Cymru's belief of independence? do not understand what you mean the

core belief of a political party. The whole question of the structure

of the state relates to other states as well. I am happy with the

Plaid Cymru policy of independence in Europe - we are part of a

federal Europe. I am also happy with the question asked in Scotland,

which has not do you believe in independence? It is, do you want to

be an independent country? That question will run and run. To most

people, Plaid Cymru stand for an independent Wales. I have been a

member of his party since 1962, and the word independence was never

used. Self determination, a Parliament for Wales, these have

all been achieved a. The ism of independence is a philosophy. It

belongs in the 19th century. I have written 2000 words on this issue,

saying that shouting independence on the touchline is not what we

should be doing. This is not what politics in Wales is about.

Politics is the art of moving forward. One of those methods of

change would be coalition government. Would you be eager to

get into a coalition with Labour in this Assembly? You do not form a

coalition just because you think you want to do it. You die because

there is a political necessity. -- you do it. But the issue I am

interested in is how we progress, what seems to be the will of the

Welsh people relating to fiscal policies and taxation policies. I

am taken by the First Minister's proposal to look at the future of

the UK in the light of Scotland. I would like to contribute my

constitutional knowledge as well to that project. You have made it

clear that the issue of sustainability, how we harvest our

resources and therefore would it is important. In particular, you are

keen on a nuclear future. The perception is your party is

conflicted on this. Her there was a serious debate last autumn, which

was agreed by a minority that we supported the replacement of

reactors on nuclear sites. This is important for the workforce.

you put in those short-term interests ahead of a long-term

possible problem in the future for thousands of years? I do not think

of politics in terms of long and short-term. I had been very

interested in the storage of nuclear waste. The search for a

deposit tree in Scotland is not an option. But there needs to be

containment. -- deposit tree. As waste changes, or when the question

of how we managed nuclear power stations is developed further, then

of course there will be less waste. What is your fish in to revitalise

the economy of Wales? We need to create a green jobs. -- what is

The last few weeks have focussed people's attention on the Scottish

independence referendum. The Scottish First Minister, Alex

Salmond, says he'll start campaigning after May's council

elections, but it's not just Scotland that's been staring into

the constitutional future. Here in Wales, thoughts have been turning

to what Scottish independence, or devo max, might mean for us and the

other home nations. Our reporter, Brian Meechan, has been finding out

why Wales is taking such a keen interest in developments in

Scotland. It may be Scotland's referendum,

but that cannot be separated from Wales's future. Scottish

independence is a matter for the Scottish people, but it can be

under most -- underestimated what a rival effect this is having. -- aim

ripple effect. What would be left it would be unrecognisable. There

would not be a status quo. If Scotland votes for independence,

Wales would be part of a rump that would not just be lopsided, but a

bit would be shaved off. If you were to start again, you would not

start from here. Some Assembly Members argue the outcome is so

important that Unionist politicians cannot ignore it. We need a voice.

It will dramatically affect the way British politics is conducted in

the years after 2014. It was only last year, after a referendum, that

the Assembly got the power to make all laws in devolved areas.

Nationalists believe they can use the Scottish debate to put a

further powers here, perhaps even independence for Wales. We are

players - we would like independence for Wales, and we need

to have a cohesive debate. -- we are very clear. Some people are

pursuing federalism, but we need a cross-party debate. We need to

really be aware to what we could be doing. Wales does not suffer from a

lack of page citizen, but a poll suggests that does not translate

into support for or independence. Only 7% back bit. -- backed it. The

First Minister hosted only celebrations for St David's Day in

Brussels last week. He did not pull any punches in responding for the

call for Wales to follow Scotland. My point is - if you look at the UK,

we need to look at it now, rather than waiting to see what happened

in Scotland. His comments have been echoed by Rhodri Morgan. In general,

it is easier to be campaigning for a Yes to something. It is either

yes to independence, but what is the yes if you are not an SNP

supporter? It should be yes to a constitutional convention and a

written constitution, and a commission that determines what

Scotland, Wales, Northern Ireland and England get in terms of tax.

All parties agreed in Senedd that Wales is badly served. An

independent report found a shortfall of �300 million a year,

missing from the Welsh budget. Scotland is regarded as being over

funded. Rhodri Morgan worked with Alex Salmond. He told me he would

not support my campaign for a change in the formula, and a change

in the way that the formula is allocated. Unless Scotland had

control of its own up oil and gas resources. The Assembly has no

control over taxation, but a poll suggests two thirds of voters want

that to change. We have a commission which is considering

what further powers might be useful. Some powers may be devolved to the

Welsh government. These are children of a devolved Wales.

Devolution it is a process not an event. It will continue to change,

just as a has dramatically over the last decade. What Scotland does may

Time for a quick word with my guests. We heard about Vince

Cable's possible mischief-making. What you make of the timing of this

release of this letter? I am not sure about the timing. It is right

and proper that Vince Cable, if he has concerns, he needs to challenge

the Government. He needs to say that we need to clarify our vision,

we need to put forward ideas to drive away economy forward. If he

will not do it, who is? You can't expect the Liberal Democrats to sit

there and St "yes sir, yes sir". Vince Cable is right to put his

concerns about there. It is party policy that the banks should be

split up. Vince Cable is absolutely right - but whether or not he will

be allowed to remain in the Cabinet if he is shooting his mouth off

outside the Cabinet, that remains to be seen. It shows cracks and the

Government, though. We know there are tensions between the Lib Dems

and Conservatives. Some policies make a lot of people very

uncomfortable, because they are hitting the poorest hardest. But

one of the interesting things about what the Government could be doing,

Vince Cable mentions RBS, there have been alternative proposals to

bring it back and being a mutual bank. Why are we spending so much

of our money to revitalise another private bank? He quite rightly is

saying we need banks that a more focused on lending to small and

medium-sized businesses, because they cannot grow unless they have

capital to invest in order to create the jobs we need a. He is

right on that sort of thing. I would like to know why the Lib Dems

have been so silent on the Robin Hood tax. Firstly, letters be

playing - the reason we had a financial crisis is because as Ed

Miliband said on the radio, the Labour government fails to take

action to regulate the banks. We need to take action. We need to

look at how banks operate. The crisis was because of Labour's

failure to take control and regulate and recognise the warning

signs of a system with a problem. Vince Cable is one of the first

people to identify we may have a problem, and before the economic

storm, warning people if we did not act. It is his role to tell people

what we need to do in order to change that. What positive steps we

need to go forward. Tackling the banks, and protecting consumer

banking, is critical. Who will argue for that, if the Lib Dems are

not? It is right that they do. It is not cracks are showing, it is us

playing a responsible and honest role. It was actually under

Thatcher that the deregulation occurred. That is why we are where

we are today. It is absolutely right - Labour should have done

more to regulate the banks. But the coalition government has not done

anything. We are still in a dangerous position. We still have

the gamblers in the City of London holding the future of our country

to ransom. Clearly, your own party leader is admitting that it is

Labour's fault, because they failed to act. But he is agreeing to that.

He is a green we need to do more to regulate the banks. -- he is

agreeing. Why they can't back the Robin Hood tax, I don't know.

Let's cross now to Westminster and to our correspondent, Tomos

They are a glorious example of an organisation bringing people

together from all parts of the community and indeed, south of the

border. From the D U P.

Recognising the sacrifice of Our brave soldiers from Northern

Ireland contributing to the defence of the United Kingdom. Does the

Secretary of State acknowledged there is a timebomb of mental

health problems facing those who return from the field of conflict

and what steps are being taken to address this?

I entirely endorse the old member's comments and I pay tribute to the

members of the Royal Irish who lost their lives in the campaign last

year. He is right to draw attention to the mental health problems and I

do discuss this with my honourable friends in Cabinet and he should

discuss it with local ministers who are responsible for delivering

services in Northern Ireland. Questors to the prime minister.

Number one, sir. Thank you, Mr Speaker. I hope you

will permit me, before answering questions, Mr Speaker, to make the

following announcement. Yesterday, an armoured fighting vehicle near

the eastern border of Helmand province was struck by an explosion.

It is with great sadness that I must tell the House that six

soldiers are believed killed. Five are from the Yorkshire Regiment and

one is from the first Battalion the Duke of Lancaster's Regiment. Our

thoughts are with the friends and family of these servicemen. This

would be the largest loss of life in a single incident in Afghanistan

since 2000 the 6th. It brings our total number of casualties in

Afghanistan to over 400. -- since 2006. I have spoken this money to

the Chief of Defence Staff, the commanding officer of the Yorkshire

Regiment. They each stress the importance of getting the job done

but I know that everyone will want a message of support and backing

for a troops and families to go out from this has today. This morning I

had ministers with Miss missed -- with ministerial colleagues and

others and I will have further such meetings later today.

Can I echo the prime minister's tribute to the fallen. Fear service

and sacrifice humbles us all. With this terrible news in mind, will my

right honourable friend uses meetings next week with President a

bona -- Barack Obama to insure Afghan forces get the training and

equipment they need to takeover. I thank my friend for his question.

Next week is an opportunity to make sure that Britain and America, as

the largest contributors to the mission in Afghanistan are

absolutely in lockstep to the importance of training up the army

and police and making sure all nature partner have a coordinated

process for transition so that the Afghans can take responsibility for

the security of their own family. Ed Miliband.

Labour leader. Can I join the prime minister in

expressing profound sadness at the terrible news of our six soldiers

missing, feared dead. Today we are reminded of the ongoing commitment

and sacrifice that our service personnel make on our behalf. By

putting themselves in harm's way for our benefit, they demonstrate

the utmost in service and courage and we owe them and all of those

who have lost their lives in Afghanistan and it meant -- an

immense debt of gratitude and of thoughts are with their friends and

family and colleagues. At moments like this, does the Prime Minister

agree that we must restate clearly the reasons for our mission in

Afghanistan? A more stable, self- governing Afghanistan to produce

more stable and comes in the region and to ensure greater safety for

our citizens at home. I thank the Right Honourable

Gentleman for his words. He is right. Our mission in Afghanistan

remains vital to our national security. We are there to prevent

that country from being a safe haven for Al-Qaeda or from where

they might plan attacks on the UK or allies. We must equip the Afghan

government and the forces of Afghanistan with the capability and

capacity to take care of their own national security without the need

of foreign troops. That is the aim. We are making progress. The army

stands at 185,000. The Afghan national police standing at 145,000.

They are both on target for the end of this year. We are making

progress and this is absolutely essential for bringing our troops

home but I agree that we must restate clearly why we are there

and it is in our national interest. We must make sure, as both the

commander of the bad Italian said to me today, -- the Battalion, the

men have high morale and want our support.

I think the Prime Minister for that answer. He and I also agree that it

is essential we build now for a political settlement in Afghanistan

for when our troops are gone. Can he therefore take this moment to

update their house on what diplomatic Prozac -- diplomatic

progress is being made for a more inclusive political settlement

needed for a more inclusive Afghanistan and does he agree that

the international community must up the pace of progress so Mae West in

straw we can do all we can -- so we must do all we can to withdraw our

troops by the end of 2014? We are clearly planning the

increase in the army and police, which are the physical forces that

will take over. The greatest difference we can make is a

stronger political settlement which can make sure Afghanistan has the

chance of real peace, stability, prosperity and security. There are

good signs in that there'll proper discussions between Afghan and

Pakistani government. There is a clear message coming out of

Afghanistan and Pakistan to all those who are engaged in violence

to give up and joined a political process. There is strong support

for that, across the Arab world. We need to give them every support we

can and send a clear message to the Taliban but whether it is our

troops or Afghan troops that are there, they will not win on the

battlefield because they never do and now is time for a political

settlement to give this country a chance for peace for progress.

-- peaceful. I would also like to echo the

tributes to a brave men and women who are asked to make sacrifices on

a day basis to keep our country safe. Will the Prime Minister

confirmed that despite these tragic events, the mission will remain in

Afghanistan for as long as it takes to complete the mission, which is

for a safe, secure and stable Afghanistan and the Afghanistan the

people taking control? We have a very clear timetable

which is all about transition in parts of Afghanistan over to Afghan

security controls which allows our troops to move into the background

and eventually out of the country. In Helmand province, where we have

been for years, one of the toughest parts of Afghanistan, the effective

capital of Helmand province is now controlled by Afghan forces. This

process is ongoing and it can be completed by the end of 2014 so we

will lead in a proper and orderly fashion. Let's be clear, the

relationship between Britain and Afghanistan will go on. It'll be a

relationship of military training, diplomacy, support, aid and help.

We must learn from the past which is what a mistake it was to turn

away from Afghanistan. The Prime Minister's Business

Secretary on economic growth. He said, our actions are, frankly,

rather piecemeal. Does the Prime Minister agree?

I don't agree with that. What the government is doing is cutting

corporation tax, investing in apprenticeships, building

enterprise zones, making sure that across the economy there is the be

balancing that is necessary for sustained economic growth.

MP for Carmarthen West. My constituents have to wait longer

to get a hospital appointment than they would in England. They are

five times less likely to get certain cancer drugs than in

England and in hospital, they are twice as likely to get an infection.

Does this prove to the prime minister that you can't trust

Labour with the NHS? My Honourable Friend makes an

important point. When you look at what has happened to the NHS in

Wales, it shows what has happened when you don't put in the resources

because the resources are being cut in Wales but also you don't reform

the NHS to make sure there is a proper chance for people to get the

treatment they need. There is a cancer drugs found in Wales. There

are longer waiting lists and I think that's an example of what

happens without the reforms and the money.

Mr Speaker, the Prime Minister is Can he, can he look me in the eye

and tell me he is proud of the decision to remove all disability

benefits from a 10-year-old child who can hardly walk and you cannot

toilet herself because she has cerebral palsy. Is he truly proud?

This government is not cutting the money that is coming into

disability benefits. We are replacing disability living

allowance with the personal independence payment and as someone

who has filled out the form for disability living allowance and had

a child with cerebral palsy, I know how long it takes to fill in the

form. We are going to have a medical test so those who are

disabled and need that help get it more quickly.

Mr Speaker, on Friday, PC Trevor Hall...

Order. I say to the Honourable Gentleman from Brighton that sort

of noise is not acceptable. On Friday, PC Trevor Hall and PC

Collette Miller came to see me about the life-threatening effects

the new legal high on a constituency. I am told that black

mamba is being sold on our streets in the UK. Now we have regulations

to allow us to act swiftly to ban potentially dangerous legal highs,

will my right honourable friend act on this substance immediately?

We are grateful to the Honourable Gentleman to receive his seat. It

is too long. It is an important issue. We are

determined to stamp out these legal highs. We do have this drugs early

warning system which brings these things to attention but a decision

needs to be made and I will make sure that happen.

Ed Miliband. Jim Howells is a delivery driver

from Dartford. He is a married father and the sole earner. He

works 20 hours a week but next month, under the Prime Minister's

proposals, unless he works 24 hours a week, he will lose his working

tax credit, �60 a week. He says he has been told that the hours aren't

there. He wants to work full-time. What is the prime minister's advice

to Jim holes? Let me set the context for this. I

will answer the question very directly but we do need to reform

the tax credit system because we have a massive budget deficit. When

we came to office, tax credits were going to nine out of 10 families,

including people right up the income scale, including members of

parliament. What our changes do in terms of this specific case is we

are dealing with a basic unfairness that we ask a single parent to work

16 hours before getting access to the tax credits system so it's only

right to say to couples that between them they should work 24

hrs, 12 hours each. If they do that, they will be better off.

Mr Speaker, that answer is no use to Mr Howells and his family. He

can't find the extra hours. He is going to use. Defence Secretary

Schultz but what about his wife? Let me tell you. His wife is

looking after their three school- age children and can't find hours

consistent with fat. Mr Speaker, this man along with 200,000 couples,

are going to lose out as a result of this. Before the election, the

Prime Minister said that for Labour to say that the changes we are

making to tax credits will hit low- income families is simply not true.

Why has he broken that promise? We have increased the child tax

credit which goes to the poorest families in our country. To answer

directly. I don't think it's unreasonable when we say to a

single parent they have to work 16 hours to get access to the tax

credit system, I don't think it unreasonable to ask a couple to

work an average of 12 hours each. In a way, this relates to a bigger

picture. We have a massive budget deficit. If he's not going to

support the welfare cap, if he would support the housing benefits

cap, if you win support cuts to legal aid or tax credits, how on

earth will the deal with the He in Dartford, there are five

people chasing every vacancy. It is not good enough for the Prime

Minister to say they should get outdoors. If they cannot find the

work, they are better off in benefits than in work. That is

something he said he wanted to avoid. It also goes to this matter

of trust - the Prime Minister made a promise, just like he promised

child benefit. Before the election, he said he would give it to a

straight. He said, I like a child benefit. I would not change it. I

will not means tested. I do not think that is a good idea. We have

already established he has broken his promise to low income families,

but why middle income families as well? Another change she doesn't

support! He seems to think... The Prime Minister's answer must be

heard. -- order. Does he really think people earning �20,000 should

pay for his child benefit? I do not agree. We have to make savings. Not

giving a child benefit to the wealthiest 50 -- 15% of people in

our country, that is a difficult decision. Mr Speaker, first double,

we are talking about families on �43,000 a year. Secondly, it is no

good the Prime Minister saying he supports the principle that people

on higher income should not get child benefit. Before the election,

he supported the opposite principle, and he said quite clearly to have

families, I will not take away your child benefit. In my book, there is

a simple word for that - a broken promise. A broken promise by this

Prime Minister. Two broken promises. The reality is this - lower income

families are losing their tax credit. Middle income families are

losing child benefit. Does he understand why people just do not

believe him when he says, "we are all in this together"? It is time

they him to listen to his own Shadow Chief Secretary. He said we

insure the test of fiscal credibility. If we do not get this

right, it does not matter what we say about anything else. She is

absolutely right. Reducing our deficit takes tough decisions. He

has opposed every single cut. He opposes all cuts. No wonder, when

people dial-up a radio phone-in, they all say the same thing - he is

Let us hear it from the honourable gentleman. The following last

week's statement on the use of wild animals in circuses, could be quite

-- Prime Minister informed the House that a ban would be

introduced in this Parliament, and before the next general election?

do want to see a ban introduced. It is the overwhelming opinion of

members in this House. We are putting in a scheme in the short

term, but I think my honourable friend is right. Today, the

Business Select Committee published a report on consumer debt. Last

November, 60% of people worried about debt, and 3 million

considered pay-day loans. No action has been announced. Will the Prime

Minister commit to act now to protect valuable -- vulnerable

families, or will he accept he is completely out of touch? As the

last exchange proved, we are worried about debt. The problem is,

the Labour Party does not understand there has a debt problem.

There has been a debt problem end our economy, and for many

households, and we need to make sure they get help. That is why we

are making sure Citizen's Advice Bureau continues to get help.

coalition agreement contains many bold and brilliant proposals to

give Britain the change we need. Radical localism, for example.

Sometimes, however, progress has been slowed. Sometimes, radicalism

has been slow. Is this because of the constraints of coalition or the

Whitehall machine? It was good to have such a helpful start! I think

this government has done a number of radical things, right across the

board, whether it is all they reform to make sure it pays to work,

education reform, whether the tax reform to give us competitive tax

rates. I wonder has to go further and faster. I do not blame the

Whitehall machine. Politicians must always take responsibility.

constituent was arrested nearly three years ago in Goa. He was

released, when it was found out be police officers were under

investigation for corruption. His passport has been confiscated, he

cannot work, he does not even know when this case will go to court. To

the Prime Minister agree that justice has been denied? Can be

Foreign Office Minister meet with meet urgently? I will certainly do

that. It is important the honourable gentleman feels he

cannot stand up for his constituents on the other side of

the world. I will make sure the Foreign Office meet with him soon.

Will the Prime Minister join me in congratulating the project that has

started in my constituency in September, funded by the private

sector, Redbridge, charities, congratulating the Interface Group

to get young people with special needs into employment? I will

certainly join him in supporting that project. It is important that

we help children with special needs to this calling, and true that

transition after-school. -- special needs to his calling. Is it true

that the problem is, policy is being run by two public school boys,

who do not know what to do is like to go to the supermarket and put

things back on the shelves because they cannot afford it for their

children's lunch boxes? Not my words, but the words of a

Conservative MP. Coming from the north-east, she should be

celebrating the fact that Nissan are building a new car plant!

Instead of whatever nonsense she read out! My personal tributes are

to the fall in as well. On Monday, Claire's law came into being. All

my honourable friend be willing to meet with me and a sergeant to

learn, first hand, how this ground- breaking initiative in Devonport is

helping to make sure children in my constituency grow up where there

will not be domestic violence any more? He is right to raise this

issue in his constituency, when tomorrow we have International

Women's Day. It is a breakthrough to give women this information if

they seek it. I want us to follow that by looking at stalking, I want

us to continue to support rape crisis centres, and made sure we

act on domestic violence right across the board. I look forward to

visiting Scotland soon! I am not so sure that he will come to my

constituency very soon indeed! In fact, later this month to his Tory

party conference. But I want to know whether or not he agrees with

me that the uncertainty created around this separatist idea of a

referendum, delayed longer than it should be, is it not leading to an

uncertainty of inward investment, but to my constituency and

elsewhere? Will he come with me, to see some inward investment? It is a

promise he made to me at a meeting one year ago. When he asked me this

question a year ago, I met with a delegation from his constituency. I

agree with every word he says. He can make that short trip from his

constituency, and we can share a platform to get a. -- together.

want the honourable lady's question to be heard in full. Perhaps a bit

of respect? Reports are trying to be repressed in to a scandal of

wasted money, and councillors are being threatened with disciplinary

action if they blow the whistle. Does the Prime Minister agree the

council should come clean with the people? She raises an important

point - there are proposals for transparency in local government,

and expenditures should be documented. This summer's common

names, budgets and responsibilities. Paid over �58,000 should be

published, including expenses, and organisational charges. We want of

transparency to go right through local government. Article 16 of the

you appeal -- European fiscal compact says it will be

incorporated in the European treaty in five years. Can he vetoed that?

What it says is that it can only be incorporated with the position of

all Member States. Our position on that has not changed. Can the Prime

Minister join me, along with the thousands of families with missing

loved ones, including the families of missing York woman Claudia

Lawrence, in supporting recommendations of the Justice

Select Committee report of missing people's rights? This is an

important issue he races. I pay tribute to Peter Lawrence and his

support for this campaign. The select committee has made a report

on this issue. We acknowledge the law is complicated, and recognise

the difficulties faced by loved ones. We will consider these

recommendations carefully, and perhaps all right to be honourable

gentleman when we have an answer. If the Prime Minister manages to

persuade the Chancellor to remove some of the anomalies of the

benefits system.... We are making a long-term reform. We are making a

long-term reform, Universal Credit, which will mean everyone is better

off in work, no matter how many hours they work. That is something

we had 18 years to put in place. Saturday, 2000 marched through

Kendall took produce a petition calling for radiotherapy services

are not to be scrapped. Can we make sure we bring cancer treatment to

Kendal, so local lives can be made longer, and journey shorter? I know,

from having visited his constituency, how important the

issue of the hospital is. Perhaps I can fix a meeting between his and

my honourable friend to make sure RBS has recently axed jobs. They

have been outsourced to India. The prime minister and the Government

on the biggest shareholders on behalf of the stakeholders so when

will the Prime Minister's stand up to RBS to prevent these needless

job losses in the UK? I think the most important thing we

have to do is to recognise that the last government put in, on behalf

of the country, �45 billion, into that bank. That is �2,500 for every

working family in the country and the important thing is we get that

money back. We need Rds to return to help. -- RBS to return to health.

It has to grow its business and we will then get into the position

where we can return the money. That is what matters.

Mr Chris Hopkins. Can I offer my sympathies to the families and

friends of the six soldiers who have been killed, five of which

served with the Yorkshire Regiment which I had the privilege of

serving with. Can I ask the Prime Minister, I recognise the important

role -- the important role which our troops endeavour to undertake

and I support a process but we do need to bring our troops back in

2015 and can I ask the prime minister we do everything to

support the families of those that are lost?

Where Honourable friend speaks with experience because of his service

in our armed forces. Is important we have the date for our troops

coming home from Afghanistan, a date that I set we won't be in a

combat role at the end of 2014. It's also important they have the

equipment between now and then to keep them as safe as possible. The

last government started with this with extra money being put in

vehicles since 2006 and they have spent �2 billion on better

protected vehicles. He is absolutely right that we need to do

more for their families at home and that is what the military

government process and also the cabinet committee which I chaired

the first meeting of, is all about. Using Applied Language Solutions

was supposed to save the West Midlands police vast amounts of

money but last week we heard that they were unable to close suspects

for weeks. Is that what we can expect from our police forces when

they take out deals with private security companies?

I don't think there's anything wrong with the police getting back

office functions carried out by private sector organisations.

Indeed, when the shadow policing minister was asked the question at

the Home Office, the Home Affairs Select Committee, he said he was

relaxed about that. Can I say to the Honourable Lady I am delighted

she is looking at looking at the issue of whether to become a police

and crime commissioner. I hope many other Honourable Members will

consider this Korea chain J. . -- Career Change.

Can my Honourable Friend do all he can to support Mayor Boris Johnson

in London. He is pleading with our biggest insurer not to leave the

city of London because of the attack by the European Union on the

city of London's competitiveness? Can't I invite him to lock the

fiscal union treaty by applying to the European Court of Justice

because it is illegal until we get the city safeguards he was

demanding in December? My Honourable Friend is right to

raise the case of the Prudential because it is an example where ill-

thought-out EU legislation is endangering a great British

business which should have its headquarters in the UK. We are

working hard with the Prudential to try and deal with this and we have

the support of Boris Johnson in a doing that.

Order. That was a rather subdued Prime

Minister's questions this week. There were some lively exchanges on

child benefit. We look forward to the Budget in two weeks' time.

Plenty to discuss in the studio. It was subdued. That was following

the statement at the beginning of the session from the Prime Minister

saying that six servicemen are missing in Helmand province. That

led to a debate over, essentially, what British troops are doing in

Afghanistan and Ed Miliband asking to restate the aims of the country?

I don't think there will ever be an end to this nightmare until we

start talking to the Taliban because if we withdraw the troops

without talking to the Taliban, it will prolong the civil war that is

already going on, even with the troops there. At the moment we have

the Hamid Karzai government which is corrupt and only represents one

section of the population in Afghanistan. There is no

alternative to talking to the Taliban, he tried to persuade the

Americans to do it. At the moment it is an election year and it is

hard to seek that it will happen before November. There is no

solution to the Afghan problem as we saw with the Soviet Union. It's

not possible to beat the Taliban, therefore we have to talk to them

and bring about conciliation between these people who have

suffered for so many years. The British troops have been there

for a decade now. Jenny Rathbone suggests, as David Miliband

suggested, a change of tack is required because what is going on

is potentially not working. Worryingly, there is no end in

sight and we are all concerned when we hear sad news like we have heard

this week. Men and women are or putting their lives at risk in

order to find a peaceful solution in Afghanistan on our behalf every

day. It's incumbent on us as politicians and our colleagues in

Westminster to make sure we have got an exit strategy and we know

what we are trying to achieve and we are working constructively

towards that. I think sometimes over that decade, there have been a

lack of focus and we need to think carefully about that in Wales. It

is incumbent on us to think that when servicemen and women come home

we can care for them effectively, their mental health as well as

their physical health. I have concerns about the provision of

services for people suffering from post-traumatic stress disorder.

Let's look at some of the other things, the usual knockabout, which

did sit quite uncomfortably against the backdrop of the other stuff we

heard about. The MP for Carmarthen West attacking the Welsh NHS, Jenny

Rathbone. As a Labour representative, what did you make

of his comments? This is a strategy by the coalition

government to avoid discussing the harm they are doing to the NHS in

England. But longer waiting lists, no cancer

drugs? We certainly need to address

waiting lists and we need to have a coherent drugs policy but the main

issue is that we do have the support of doctors and nurses in a

way that we are reshaping the NHS to meet the needs of our population.

But there was a demonstration last week in Wales with doctors signing

letters against the plans in West will.

There will always be disagreements against individual but the

organisations that represent doctors and nurses are not

demonstrating outside the Assembly building and what we are

unfortunately seeing is a scare campaign on behalf of one of the

Plaid Cymru candidates to promote her campaign.

You mean Elin Jones? I do. Both the First Minister and

the health minister have been clear that there are no plans to close

any district hospitals and they have been specific on that and it

doesn't matter how often they repeat it, people who are about

mischief-making are trying to distort what is going on and making

people really worried and that is really totally disappointing

because, you know, individuals who are worried about the services

available to their families are as Ben wound-up to think that their

services are going to be taking a wave and them.

There were 800 protesters outside the Assembly last week who may have

another view. Where do you sit on this? What is the Liberal Democrat

view? 50 of the 60 consultants based at

the hospital in question signed a letter expressing no confidence in

the local health board. We have to take notice because it demonstrates

that the provisions are not behind the Government approach on this and

I think it's interesting we saw Rachel Reeves on Newsnight a couple

of weeks ago talking about the Welsh NHS and Jeremy Paxman asked

her three times, do they do it better in Wales?

Remind us who Rachel Reeves is? The Labour spokesperson on health.

The spokesperson for the opposition Treasury.

Three times she refused to agree. Labour in London are ashamed of the

Welsh government record. People are waiting longer and in pain. They

are concerned about their services and they don't understand whether

their services are going to be addressed by the Welsh government

or the Welsh government are going to bat them back to the local

health boards. We have to take that seriously and not sweep aside

people's genuine and legitimate concern.

We will leave it there but come back before the end of the

programme. Andy Berman is the shadow health spokesman, isn't he?

We will hear from three MPs about tomorrow's international women's

day. Back for more on the Plaid Cymru leadership race.

Our second contestant for the leadership is a Leanne Wood. You

said that Plaid Cymru has not done as well as it would have liked

because it had no unique selling point. What should it be? Should it

be independent? We have met as a party our short

term objectives by going into government in the previous Assembly.

We secured legislation to protect the language, we've been part of a

referendum campaign which secured a yes vote for law-making powers in

the Assembly and all parties are united on the need to reform the

Barnett formula. We have met our short-term objectives.

You didn't get thankful that electric, did you?

We didn't. We didn't have enough time to put forward our next set of

objectives. I think that is what we need to do now, to put together a

plan for the next stage and I think it should be independence but not

independence for independence sake but independence so we can sort out

our problems like the economy. People are concerned about jobs,

youth unemployment, women's unemployment. People are in many

cases unable to afford fuel or food. Those are the questions we need to

be talking about as a party and offering constitutional solutions

to address those problems, not constitutional solutions just for

the sake of it. And yet, nobody would suggest

constitutional solutions are for their own sake. The Poles seem to

suggest that people aren't interested in independence. 7%

approved in the last BBC poll. It's hardly surprising that the

case when the case for independence hasn't been put. What was

encouraging from that poll result... You have been putting it forward

for years! Opposition parties say we are

obsessed but we haven't talked about independence at all. What was

encouraging from that result was that the number of people now in

favour of fiscal powers being devolved. We need to be able to

affect the economy in Wales. It is still in a weak position and we are

powerless to address many of the problems in our economy. The next

stage has to be devolution of those fiscal levers. We also have to be

thinking about devolving the criminal justice service with

police powers being privatised and aspects of the police service being

privatised. That being talked about. If we want to continue to have

public police service in whirls in future, we need it devolved. -- in

Wales. There are plenty of short- term objectives in Pyecombe reach

for instance controlling our natural resources and water policy.

Plenty of aspects we can campaign One of those I wanted to talk about.

Your economic vision. In particular, your plans as set out in your green

print for the valleys. Tell us what it means.

The green print is a job creation programme and the aim is to create

markets for local jobs. You would have a big push on co-operative to

try and create co-operative so. I'm thinking about building up

resilience for things like peak oil, we need to reduce our carbon

emissions further, if we had a programme of fitting our homes to

maximise energy efficiency, people could be employed in that work. We

need a plan, that is what I've said. Plaid Cymru needs to put the

economy at the heart of will work and we need a long-term plan.

As I said earlier on am.pm, tomorrow is International Women's

Day - it's a day of global celebration for the economic,

political and social achievements of women. Our reporter, Bethan

James, has been speaking to two MPs about the event.

100 years ago, there were no women in Parliament. Things have changed,

but the percentage of women in Parliament he is still pretty low -

22%. The party were the best record for female representation is the

Labour Party, and I have three female Labour MPs joining the head.

You were the first female MP to represent the Welsh valleys. What

was it like here in Westminster in the 1980s? I came from the European

Parliament, and it is quite a culture shock. There are far more

women in the duet -- European Parliament. There were things that

were important - there was no women's hairdresser here, there was

a barber. First of all, we had to get a women's hairdresser. Then,

there were things like not enough toilets for women. There was one

particular toilet, which is called Barbara Castle. Barbara Castle

fought very hard for equal pay for women, equal rights in the House of

Commons. Things have changed here. But the percentage is low. Why is

that? We have got a long way to go. We have got 32% in the Labour Party.

If you look at the Conservatives, the largest party here, they have

not done half as well - they only have 49 women. They have gone down

in the number of women they have got here, the Lib Dems. We do have

to make a positive attempt to make sure that women have the

opportunities, and women really do value themselves and put themselves

forward. To you agree that other parties should adopt own all-women

shortlist? We all have to have all -- more women MPs. There are at

least half of the population women, and it is nonsense that there are

20 to the centre people here represented by women. -- 22%.

would argue they want to be in a job because they were the best

person for the job, not just because they are a woman.

Absolutely. But if you are good historical circumstances, in the

past, very few women have come forward. If you want to redress

that balance quickly, you have to put in measures now to say, what

about the women who have missed out? Since we have had more women

in Parliament, we have done more in terms of family problems, and child

care. All those issues that will help women fulfil career potential

as. No matter how much positive discrimination there is, do you

think it is a personal choice? Politics is not really friendly for

women, especially those with families. It is not always a

personal choice. There has been discrimination against women. Where

there has been discrimination, it is proper to give women extra help.

With childcare costs so high, and this place still voting at 10pm, it

is impossible for women with children, isn't it? I think it is

very difficult, and we need reforms. If you look at the Assembly, they

are much more sensible - they have structured the day much better. But

it does a bit chicken and egg. The women have to raise the issues in

order to get the change. Back to Mark in the Oriel, where

he'll complete his hat-trick of Plaid Cymru leadership contenders.

Last but not least, I am joined to buy another candidate. You made

independence the centre of your campaign. It could be argued. The

most recent polls show a very few people want that delivered. Are you

setting off on the wrong tack? Senedd believes in independence. --

Plaid Cymru believes in independence. We are also wanting

to see greater powers for Welsh National Assembly Members. The

recent polls have been very encouraging, really. 7%? That is

not a surprise. There was a response and that poll same that if

Scotland good for independence, there is a higher proportion of

Wales. What was encouraging about that poll is that we have a

majority of Welsh people thinking displays she should have some

physical powers, is significant number of thinking it should have

all fiscal powers. We are seeing a shift in the wake people in Wales

consider the relative importance or status or powers of the National

Assembly. -- in the way. People think there should be a growing

number of decisions relating to Wales, being taken in Wales. And

that is what Senedd has always been about. Ultimately, we want to see

an independent Wales. We need to make a better case as to what that

would mean, and I would lead that debate, but I am a practical,

pragmatic politician. Independence is something the people of Wales

would decide, but it will not happen tomorrow. I want to get to

that pragmatism. Firstly, on health. You have indicated recently that

you are concerned about the changes the Government is making. What

would you do differently, if you were in government? The money is

not there for the health service, and to hold inflation will rise.

How to address that problem? have heard Carwyn Jones say quite

clearly that reconfiguration proposals for the NHS are not

related to financial pressures. They are about changes to the way

the NHS works. There needs to be changed in the NHS, yes, but

everybody needs to be able to access safe services that can save

lives. At the moment, we have plans in a few area in Wales where a

number of communities fear that their life-saving chances are being

jeopardised by plans put forward by the health board. Chains happens

all the time in the NHS, but that has to carry the confidence of

local doctors. -- change. Also the local community. The boss

government has a lot to do to instil confidence in the proposals.

-- the Welsh government. Another aspect was nuclear power. Lots of

people see that as inconsistent. You are opposed on principle, but

in practice, while there B nuclear power? That will be taken by the UK

government. I worry about nuclear waste, in particular. The issue of

how to dispose with waste in a Safeway has never been solved by UK

government, will any of government. I am opposed to nuclear power, but

my pragmatism comes in. If the decision is taken, then I'd want to

see the job opportunities that bombing. -- job opportunities that

will mean. Now, later here in the Senedd, the

Welsh Conservatives have a debate where they say they will renew

their calls for the Welsh Government to implement a council

tax freeze. I've been speaking to the party's Shadow local government

minister, Janet Finch Saunders, and I began by asking her why they had

chosen this topic. It is a very important topic. In England,

council tax is frozen. In Scotland, it has been frozen for five years.

In Wales, we have seen council tax rise, year on year. Money has been

allocated. Almost that in a million pounds, specifically in order to

freeze council tax. -- almost �39 million. It should have been passed

over to our residents. Using money has been allocated. -- you say. The

Government do not have to put the money towards freezing council tax,

do they? Yes, but one has to recognise that the money has come

over, and the people themselves... It is their money. Are people

telling you they are concerned about council tax rises. Yes. In

Wales, we have seen council tax increases that since 1997. In 2005,

where we had re-evaluation, people saw their housing bans go up to all

three bands. They have had a double whammy. -- go up two or three bands.

You are having a debate today. It is unlikely you will win, though,

isn't it? We believe we should be supporting households. It would be

nice to think the other parties would support us, so far, they have

not shown support for a one move all the residents themselves. We

have to try to convince them this afternoon. But this is a hot topic.

Money in people's pocket is very important to them. What difference

will a council tax frieze made to the amount of money someone has an

air pocket? Even if it is only a look for bread, it is a look of

bread someone will not be able to bite. 139% increase since 1997, we

are talking very large sums of council tax. Savings with little

return, it is hitting people in the pocket. They feel it is so unfair.

Time for a final word with my guests. Your party it has

negotiated some use for the money the Conservatives would like to see

go to war to a council tax freeze. I you happy with the use of that

money? Absolutely. The freeze that might have been possible in Wales

would have been 1p a week. People do not see the impact of that. They

will see the impact of the agreement we have been able to

negotiate. And the budget negotiations. They will see that

every day - the job opportunities created, housing created, and I

think people will see the benefit of that more than a loaf of bread.

The Welsh government put the onus on councils, didn't it? Is that a

reflection that there are not as many Labour councils as there used

to be? I think the money has been was spent on children. It is all

right we put it into this deprivation grant, which will pay

for individual tuition. The UK government, which does not know the