13/03/2012 am.pm

Good afternoon, welcome to the programme. At his Cheltenham

Festival week, and the runners and riders in the fight for the Plaid

Cymru leadership race will win this week as well. You can get in touch

with us via the usual channels, on Twitter, @walespolitics. Or send us

They are off on this -- they are off in the chamber, I do not make

this stuff up on the have! Good afternoon. I called the

National Assembly for Wales to order. Item one, questions to the

Will the First Minister outline the Welsh minister's plans to encourage

the use of alternative energy sources within public buildings?

Our first priority is to improve the energy efficiency in buildings,

we have invested nearly �6 million to save energy efficiency over two

years. I am sure the First Minister is aware that last Conservative

controlled Monmouth Show planning - - County Council has installed

planning applications for two installed solar panels on council

buildings, which will bring savings through reduced bills, all at the

same time as freezing council tax. I am sure you would welcome the in

-- join me in welcoming these efforts, also, how would you roll

out this environmental best practice across Wales? It is not

for me to comment on individual planning application, but I welcome

the commitment shown by any local authority in order to reduce its

carbon footprint and encourage the use of renewable energy. I am glad

that Monmouthshire council is following the lead of Labour

Bridgend council in freezing council tax. With fuel prices past

rising over the last decade, more efficient use of our energy in

public buildings is not only desirable but essential. It is

disappointed that the gas fuelled power station in Pembrokeshire was

given the go-ahead, despite strong objections from the Countryside

Council of Wales, based on the potential impact of waste heat on a

Special Area of Conservation. Apart from jeopardising the local

environment, the planning consent was not a sustainable decision, as

there was no insistence on using that waste heat. Will you give us

an undertaking that you and your minority government will do

everything in its power to insure second-rate technology will not be

allowed on projects like this in the future? It has received

permission following due consideration by the Environment

Agency and I bear in mind the mind -- that there are a substantial

number of people who work there who would have had your words very

carefully. Question 2 has been withdrawn. Questions from the party

leaders, first, the leader of bright -- Plaid Cymru, UN wigs --

Ieuan Wyn Jones. TRANSLATION: Thank you very much, thank you for the

opportunity to contribute, if I may say so, for the final session for

me for me as leader as Plaid Cymru. As the first Minister agree with me

that this assembly has strengthened over the past 12 years, not least

because of the decision to insure for legislative powers a year ago?

As a clear majority of the people of Wales now believe that this is

the institution where important decisions, the policy areas which

UN on divorce, do you agree it is important that we continue with

this campaign to strengthen this institution? TRANSLATION: May I

begin paying tributes to the leader of Plaid Cymru to the service he

has given his party, and the person who was jointly in government with

me for four years, and will last two years of that government, both

of us, we have dealt with the waves of -- the way of government in

coalition. I read that the leader of Plaid Cymru had asked 639

questions during his period here, that his 639 of the First Minister.

I hope that some of the answers were the right ones during that

period. Once again, may I thank him for what he has done in this

chamber, as a person who has the respect of all the parties here.

May I wish him well for the future. Two on to his question, I agree

completely -- to answer his question, I agree completely with

his view that Wales has progressed a great deal since 1999. We saw

that in the referendum last year, and now we need to consider the

steps ahead to strengthen Wales and the assembly. TRANSLATION: Thank

you very much, I appreciate those very kind words. Although there

will be differences between the parties on pace, the extent and

speed on change in securing greater powers for the National Assembly,

does the first Minister agree with me that we should not be seeking

constitutional change for its own sake? But all of us should share an

aspiration to improve the lives of the people of Wales, to steer a

course through these difficult economic times, to strengthen our

economy, to help -- make our health service the best it can be, and

make sure our children have the best start in their lives through

having an education system for which we can all be proud.

believe the case has been made in many areas for further devolution

of powers that could be used for the benefit of the people of Wales.

We have discussed at length in this chamber the issue of borrowing,

issues surrounding the depletion of some taxation -- devolution of some

taxation. Secondly, issues the issue of devolution of energy

control. There are many areas where further devolution will be of

benefit to the Welsh people. It is far from the case that it is a map

map -- matter of achieving powers for the sake of it. There are clear

demonstrations where powers could be gained for this institution for

the good of the power -- people. TRANSLATION: Of. We have already

acknowledged and accepted that this is the very last question, question

number 639, as you suggested, some of the answers have been

comprehensive and some of the questions have also been

comprehensive and Wise. May I take this opportunity to thank everyone

for the courtesy they have given. It has been issued privilege for me

-- it has been a huge privilege for me to take such a huge role in

Welsh politics, and be part of the development of the first parliament

Wales has had for six centuries. Nobody could ask for more than that.

TRANSLATION: I do not believe that I can endorse everything that UN

Wynne-Jones has said, can I say once again I wish him well. In this

assembly and for the insuring years. If I may, with your indulgence,

plate -- pay tribute to the leader of Plaid Cymru for the service he

has given to his country, this institution which he is right to

identify has matured over the years, since he has been here to will the

present day, and hopefully for the rest of this term as well. The

people of Anglesey who he has served with such diligence as well.

The party of Plaid Cymru greatly benefited from your stewardship as

leadership, and I was grateful to receive cried -- kind words when I

was elected as leader of the Welsh Conservative group, and I look

forward to continuing to work with you in this institution for the

betterment of Wales. First Minister, how many bills has your government

submitted to this constitution -- institution for scrutiny since the

election? They well know that there are bills which have been submitted

and others to try in paper form -- in white paper form. You know full

well that you have only submitted one bill for looking at by this

institution. The similar Scottish parliament has submitted 10 bills.

This is a level of inactivity which is showing lethargy by your

government in its ability to use the new powers for the benefit of

the people of Wales. Why is it the case that your government has been

so slow to use the tools that the people of Wales conferred on you on

the referendum last here? Far from it, you can only see what has been

done in terms of the economic stimulus package that has been

announced, a great deal of work has been put into brilliant white

papers or consultation including important legislation such as the

organ donation Bill, which cannot be rushed, and will get full

scrutiny on the floor of this House. -- of this House. The government

elected in Scotland have brought 10 bills before the Scottish

Parliament for their consideration. Your government has chosen only to

Bill -- bring one Bill. You have spoken time and time again for

Scottish independence, constitutional reform,

constitutional Convention, and yet the tools that your government have

given, you have failed to use. You have spoken so much about British

independence, I thought you might have been a late entrance to the

Plaid Cymru leadership debate! What we need from your government, what

we need from your government, his activity to make sure that those

tools that the people of Wales conferred on this institution, and

this institution from -- conferred on a government, to bring forward

legislation which would ultimately allowed the people of Wales to

benefit from those bills. Is this not a damning indictment of the

inactivity of your government, and more so, the delivery unit that to

talk so much about, delivering for be people of Wales? He has become

an apologist for the SNP, I never thought I should say that. I do

wonder if I should include tributes to him, to see whether it would be

his last questions, you never know from week to week! We have brought

forward controversial -- we have brought forward that legislation

and avoided a decision which is controversial and wrong, unlike

other governments in the UK. May I to take this opportunity to pay

tribute to the stead fuss and unstinting word of Ieuan Wyn Jones,

for his work for Wales, and insuring the early years of this

devolution project were as successful as they have been. He

has played no small part in achieving that. I would always --

also like to thank him for his personal kindness and courtesy you

have shown me since I became an assembly member in 1999, and

especially our working relationship since I became leader of the

Liberal Democrats two years ago. I it would like to wish you well for

your remaining years on the backbenches. I suspect and hope

that you will be equally as troublesome! As previously does he

have moved to the back benches have been, to the people who have

On 2nd February 1920 11, we were told by your education minister

that he was setting, and I quote, some clear targets for our

education system. He said, we should aim to be in the top 20 of

the school systems measured in 2015. Is that still your government's

target, and can you give us an incorrect -- interim target for way

you expect us to be in the 2012 Investment -- assessment? It is our

target, and we expect to fulfil it in 2015. I am glad you have

confirmed your target for 2015, but as you know, there will be further

assessments this year. Your education minister last week said,

and I quote, most of our reforms would not have kicked in with a

sufficient degree of time to make a real improvement by 2013. First

Minister, is this an example of your government getting debt

excuses in early? I give you another opportunity to state now

what are your targets for the 2012 assessment. As I have said, the

Education Minister has looked at 2015 at the target. I do not think

anyone can suggest that the education minister has sat back, he

has been active in insuring we have a suitable and strong education

system in the years to come. I take it by your lack of an answer that

your government has no targets for the 2012 assessment. The education

assessment -- minister warned in a keynote speech that local

authorities had a year to start my demonstrating that they were

delivering, and if they had not shown signs, and more radical

restructuring of educational delivery on a regional basis should

follow. First Minister, it you expect education authorities to

turn things around in one year, can we not expect. Education minister

to improve your -- hour result in three is? If he does not, we you

Given that he said 2015 was the target, we stand by that. Local

Education authorities are in the front line of delivering education

services, so we expect them to demonstrate improvement quickly. We

will keep to our announced a target. Can I add my personal thanks to

Ieuan Wyn Jones? He has led his party with charm and wit. I look

forward to him being on the backbench and setting a good

example to the others. We now move to question three. What is the

Welsh Government doing to support older people leaving hospital care?

older people leaving hospital care? We have issued guidance emphasising

important management for the discharge process for older people.

We have to ensure that support services are available to them.

There is a hospital scheme in my constituency. There is a

befriending scheme to support 150 people. After hospital discharge,

they have been able to get back into the community life. Do you

believe that it is a work is so -- essential social services that are

crucial in this area at and that harsh cuts will be severe for this?

Many people will look at the service changes proposed in England

and be very grateful that they live in Wales. Two the a moment of

maximising people's ability to live independently can generate so --

significant savings by reducing hospital admissions and the

admissions. I recently met with a number of older people who were

certainly able. How does the Welsh Government respond to the call for

the importance of social and physical interventions to be

recognised and the need for or consistent levels of we opponent

across the whole of Wales? -- the ability to beat the table. -- be

re-able. It is important that people have company and help during

rehabilitation. It is an important part of the process of dealing with

people as they get older. First Minister, the Welsh government

funded rapid response adaptation programme provided by eight care

and repair is supporting more older people than ever in my constituency.

The local office tells me there is a 73% -- tells me that 73% of

referrals helped people returned to their homes from hospital. Would

you agree with me that I increasing this week and significantly

decrease the need for hospitals at the admissions? Absolutely. People

naturally want to be at home and not in hospital. What is being done

there is an example of assisting people to return home, to spend

their lives at home, rather than being in a hospital setting whether

hospital can provide excellent care, but it is not the same as being at

home. TRANSLATION: -- to what extent can examples of best

practice be reproduced? People in the community are benefiting from

the programme that you mentioned. People across Wales should see it

as a good example of what can be done for across institutional

working to deliver better service. TRANSLATION: First Minister, I

recently revisited the acute response team incur more than sure

in the Prince Philip hospital. Last year, 420 people received service

which meant they did not have to have a lengthy stay in hospital.

Would you agree with me that this is a very good example of how to

avoid long stays in our hospitals? I would agree with that. It is an

excellent example. It is a similar programme to the one that I

mentioned in Gwent. I know that the Minister for health and social

services wants to see projects like this rolling out across Wales.

are the Welsh Government's priorities for 2012? They are set

out in our programme for government. Last week, a survey was published

highlighting the importance of steel making to the Welsh economy.

The payment is more than double the minimum wage and there is full and

long-term employment. What discussions has the Welsh

government had to reassure people that he's important companies are

supported our and can deliver for our economy? I have had several

meetings. We recognise the importance of Tata steel and they

are committed to Wales. These are difficult times in the industry,

there is no getting away from that. But the sheer volume of investment

that Tata Steel has put in Port Talbot is an example to me that the

see a long-term future there. the sea. First Minister, we have

active -- debated whether your priorities are in accord with the

good people of Wales and we can do no more to -- than agree to differ

on many priorities. But in the past there had been a focus on

bureaucracy and not delivery. Would you enlighten us as to whether

delivery is being monitored over bureaucracy at long last? With

regard up to the views of the people of your constituency, I

can't Ole highlight the election result. -- I can only highlight.

TRANSLATION: Last week, I asked you a question about a certain issue

and you said it was a matter for the local authority. Campaigners

are concerned about fitness levels in the context of the fact that

there is no swimming pool or facilities in the local area.

National targets are in place and if those targets are not achieved

in this area, what will you do in terms of making sure the local

authority achieves their targets? TRANSLATION: We expect local

authorities to monitor targets and meet them, but this is a matter for

them to decide by listening intently to the local people.

TRANSLATION: What steps is the First Minister taking to improve

the lives of the residents of mid- and west Wales? Last week, you

Education Minister announced that secondary schools in Barnes 4 and 5

would receive �10,000 each. In my constituency, this means less than

�15 per head per pupil. What improvements do you expect to see

in education standards, given this sum and how will you ensure that we

don't actually end up rewarding failure in our schools? That is a

very odd stands to take, in my view. The Minister's aim is to ensure

that the weaker schools are able to catch up with the strongest. There

is something fundamental about social justice there. It is not a

matter of rewarding failure but assisting schools to ensure the

level of education is one that is acceptable across the whole of

where else. A single house -- not a single household in my constituency

will benefit from the council tax freeze. You were given 40 million

to help people avoid the council tax hike, but you have spent the

money elsewhere. Do you accept that because of this decision, GP pull

of mid-Wales will have been put at a disadvantage compared to

households in England and Scotland? Bridgend have done it, see you have

to take it up with the local authority. But the 40 million was

used to finance land reclamation to create jobs. And to finance capital

projects which will health -- help to strengthen the Welsh economy.

The party opposite mention enterprise zones every week, but

apparently they are pet projects. Some of our councils have frozen

council tax already. It just shows that the Tories fritter their money

Our priorities for at developing the economy across Wales is set out

in our programme for government. Motivated workforces are crucial.

Can he tell us what he can do to ease the pressure on mothers in

Wales who would like to work but are struggling to do so. -- do so?

A campaign was launched today to highlight the problems of the

universal child care credit form of us. We are committed to this. We

are working with the Job Centre and family information services to

increase awareness and take up of above -- available financial

support for childcare. We made a commitment to increase funding.

Businesses are one of the largest things which we must consider. Will

the First Minister advise what consideration he has given to the

policy which will greatly develop business in Wales? Are there will

be a report in due course. Will the First Minister maker said --

statement on the Severn Barrage? There is a potentially important

source of renewable energy. There are environmental issues to be

dealt with. Would you care to speculate on a timescale? It is

very difficult because it is not within our control. Ultimately, of

course, the UK government had responsibility in this area. I have

met with representatives of the project. They have put forward an

interesting scheme but it requires further work at this stage. That

will ultimately require the backing of the you key government. Thank

you. As we all know, any seven energy scheme would have huge

consequences for energy creation and job creation in England and

Wales. Can I ask if you have had any more useful discussions with

the UK government or private sector about potential renewable energy

schemes in the Severn tidal range? I met with representatives on 23rd

January. They have met with Government officials before that an

sense. We are interested in the project and we look forward to it

been developed over the core us of time. -- being developed over the

course of time. TRANSLATION: It is not clear from your responses, but

are you in favour of a Severn Barrage or not? TRANSLATION: Well,

having a proper batch, of course. It is important that the right

scheme proceeds, considering the environmental issues that are part

of any project. We wish to see a project being taken forward and we

would be supportive of the right project. What discussions has the

First Minister had with the UK Government regarding the impact of

the welfare reform bill on Wales? We have repeatedly raised concerns

on the impact of the bill on wheels within this chamber and with

Westminster. You will no doubt be aware of the cuts reported. You

will soon have responsibility for the social fund. How do you plan to

use those powers to mitigate against the worst impacts?

devolution of this would allow was to look at making sure those in

most need to have access to the money for. Last week's News of the

closure of the Remploy factory in Wrexham came as a genuine shock to

the people of north-east Wales. There were many in my constituency

who work there. I was astonished at the way the announcement was made

and the lack of respect for those who worked there. Could you update

the assembly on any discussions you have had recently with the UK

Government on this issue? There have been numerous that --

discussions that have taken place between the Minister responsible in

London and the Education Minister here. A formal request was made of

the devolution for the budget regarding Remploy and that was

refused. We regret that very much. It is important that the jobs are

available within Remploy and suggesting that the money could

somehow be diverted it to help them trained elsewhere depends on jobs

being available elsewhere. That is not the case. We know that Remploy

it provides training and jobs for First Minister, returning to the

original question in relation to welfare reform, in a discussion for

the UK government, can you confirm that you have offered your support

to those aspects of the Welfare Reform Bill that will reduce the

abuse of the benefit system? Do you support the principle that there

should always be an incentive to work for those who were able to do

so? Of course they should. There should also be jobs available, they

should also be training opportunities available. There

should also be jobs available in Remploy that will not be available

in the future, that is the whole point. People should be rewarded

credit for the work they do, which is why we cannot understand in

April, people on modest incomes will be hammered harvests when it

comes to the loss of hat -- Tax Credit, -- hammered hardest. At the

same time, reducing income tax for those earning over �50,000 per year.

We stand for social justice, people who are able to pay do pay, and

those people who are working hard but been taxed hardest by the

coalition government in London, and not in the position that they will

be in a pool where they are hammered the hardest, that is what

we object to. We are developing a mental health

strategy for Wales, focusing on well-being and services. Thank you,

First Minister. Recent minister -- research has shown that mental ill

health costs the Welsh economy an estimated �7.2 billion per year.

Onto the bat, the immeasurable human cost. King you give -- can

The the strategy will provide air at improvement in mental well-being,

it will ensure that people are able to deal more with crisis. There

will be an improvement in child welfare, we want to insure people

in Wales are better informed about mental health and the options

available to sustain good mental health. Whilst I welcome the new

mental health strategy, or one of the issues that has been flagged up

as a concerned by experts that there -- has been the fact that

there is insufficient baseline data in terms of the Me and ethnic

minority population, and the prevalence of mental ill-health

within those populations. Clearly there is some evidence that

suggests that black groups in particular have a higher prevalence

of mental ill health, I wonder what is being done within the confines

of the strategy to insure that there is hard to reach groups are

actually able to access the support services they need. As with any

strategy, when it is consulted upon, we will need to insure that the

plant at a contained in the strategy reach out to as many

groups as possible. In order to do that, we will examine within the

strategy itself but the best way is in order to insure for that happens

-- that that happens. TRANSLATION: First Minister, not only within the

health port Follett that house camp -- steps can be taken to improve

mental House, -- the health portfolio. Will you give us an

assurance that under the new mental health strategy, you will be giving

responsibility to all ministers in your government to promote mental

health? TRANSLATION: This is something we expect of every

minister anyway, and we must also consider what has been done under

the measure that was passed in the assembly before the last election.

TRANSLATION: Will be First Minister outline the Welsh government's

plans to promote the use of Welsh in predominantly English speaking

areas of Wales? TRANSLATION: The world government's the new Welsh

language strategy recognises the importance of promoting the use of

Welsh across Wales, especially socially amongst young people. That

is true UN -- in those areas where the majority who are English

speakers, and in the areas that have many Welsh speakers but are

under pressure. TRANSLATION: Would the First Minister join with me in

congratulation for best for seat on the new programme for learners of

Wells -- S4c? I am sure this will help operating the language in

areas where English is mostly spoken. The member has already

benefited from the fact that that programme is now broadcast, and of

course, we welcome any method of insuring that there is a growth in

the numbers of Welsh speakers, but also its growth in the number of

people who use the Welsh language and a daily basis. One of the

problems in English-speaking areas is the provision of leisure

activities for Welsh-speaking. In my town, we have the facilities

provided, will the First Minister join with me in welcoming such

initiatives? Does he believe these initiatives create the

opportunities for people to realise that they can speak Welsh in

leisure as well as it -- in a cross from? That is the challenge, but

there are many people who speak Welsh who only speak it in the

classroom, do not speak it at home or in the communities. Your town

has Welsh speakers in the communities, that is not true of

many other plants -- part of Wales. Your example is greats, volunteers

coming together at two provide was speaking activities for young

people and to show that the language has an existence outside

of the classroom. TRANSLATION: Minister, I attended the opening of

a hall in Nice last week, not a single word of Welsh was this bacon

-- spoken through that opening ceremony. I am going to understand

that one band were asked to sing in English and famous -- and refused

and did not participate. Where are we going to encourage those areas

where it less than 6% of people speak Welsh, unless the local

council speaks -- takes it seriously? TRANSLATION: And do not

know of the fact behind that, but I it would expect any opening of the

kind that you're talking about to have at least some Welsh element,

considering that the area to the north of that to place has a great

many Welsh speakers. And also, the valley where a high percentage

speak Welsh every day. Position macro First Minister, our language

is a key part of our heritage. I am sure you would agree that it is

important that it extends not only to the predominantly Welsh-speaking

communities, but also families that have not made use of the language.

I welcome the emphasis of new media in our strategy, I believe it will

go a long way in terms of extending the use of that language. Would you

agree that it is important also to continue to support mixed language

areas? That is true, the aim of the strategy is to consider what needs

to be done in order to promote the language, but also to understand

that the way of doing that is different in different parts of

Wales. Some methods in some places will be different to Bridgend, for

example. We must ensure that children who speak Welsh are

familiar with hearing Welsh in the home and in the community, and that

the -- they use the Welsh language with each other. That remains a

challenge, and in addition to that, insure those children who live in

areas that are predominantly English should see that there is a

use for the Welsh language outside the classroom. TRANSLATION: First

Minister, giving your response to the Deputy presiding officer, your

government notes a target on how many young people should be

educated through the medium of Welsh within a few years' time. Are

you content with the strategies that have been prepared to buy the

local councils, where there are not targets within individual tack --

counted on that issue? TRANSLATION: We would expect every county to

insure that there are sufficient places available in Welsh medium

schools, considering the fact that in many parts of Wales, there has

been a growth in the number of children attending Welsh medium

schools, although there has been a fall in the number of children in

the population generally. We would expect local authorities to plan

for growth in Welsh-language education, and also to insure that

those places that -- are made available.

That was first Minister's questions, you can see more of proceedings for

National Assembly on our democracy live online coverage.

To the relative calm of the Plaid - - the am.pm paddock, our very own

Arkle, Vaughan Williams joins us. Ieuan Wyn Jones's final questions,

quite a reflective mood from him. As you would expect, a party leader

for very long time. Easily the longest serving of the current set

of party leaders. He looked back over the whole period from now to

the beginning of the assembly in 1999. And tried to reach some sort

of consensus. It is all very amiable, he laid out his stall, he

was helped by the other party leaders come and he now retire to

the backbenches. We have seen this sort of performance before when a

party leader backs down bass steps down. A lot of the arguing, a lot

of the noise we seat in the chamber is synthetic. The browny people

generally get on quite well. You only see it at the end -- generally,

people get on quite well. We saw Leanne Wood asking what his

minority government was going to our -- do, that has quite pointed!

Carwyn Jones's government has exactly half the AMs, whether it is

majority or minority or both is a slight his theological question! It

is interesting that she went in on the Pembrokeshire gas station. That

was a pretty hard edged ecological question to ask, it does divide

opinion. As one or two other AMs pointed out, is it the case that

everyone in her party agrees with her? Remploy was a big story last

week, took up a lot of the AMs' time in the chamber. Carwyn Jones

said his government had been speaking to the relevant UK

Minister, suggesting they have asked for money to take over the

money to run Remploy and they are not going to get it, they are

disappointed. Did they think they were going to get it? What they

asked for was the Welsh share of the Remploy money, but the whole

point of the government statement in Westminster last week is that

there is no more Remploy Bunny, that is going to be used for

something else. -- Remploy money. The Budget has not been cut, it is

still there and win friends to help disabled people. Theoretically the

Welsh government thought they would get their Barnett share of that

money and use it to save some of the Remploy factories, I did not

think that was ever going to happen. If the UK government has announced

a policy on a policy area which is not devolved, why we did give money