08/02/2012 am.pm

Good morning and welcome to am.pm. We have got two Assembly Members

here on the sofa we will take you to Westminster to hear from the

Prime Minister. We will be at Prime Minister's Questions for the weekly

joust between David Cameron and Ed Miliband and also be hearing from

his brother, David. In the Assembly, opposition parties are calling on

the Welsh Government to complete and proper scrutiny the race

relations organisation AWEMA. I'll be talking about the latest plan to

Joining me throughout today's programme are two Assembly Members.

Labour's Mike Hedges, an ampm sofa newcomer, and Plaid Cymru's Bethan

Jenkins. We will begin with one of our headline stories. The Welsh

Government was warned to stop funding the race equality body

AWEMA as far back as 2004. The All Wales Ethnic Minority Association

has received �8.4 million in public funding and is now under

investigation for alleged financial wrongdoing. A Welsh Government

report into those allegations is due tomorrow but this week it was

emerged another report commissioned nine years ago recommended new

funding to AWEMA should cease. That did not happen and the old report

seemed to have vanished. Yesterday, the First Minister told Assembly

Members it was unclear whether it had ever been published but it was

and Mark Hannaby got his hands on a The allegations of race equality

charity, Nan -- AWEMA and Naz Malik at dominating Welsh politics.

Bullying is under investigation. Assembly Members want to know what

happened when. They've asked to see a report into AWEMA's projects.

Yesterday afternoon, the First Minister said it was not clear what

had become of the report. He it is not clear when that report has been

published on Oct. Nine years ago when the report was first published

-- Commission, it wasn't clear if it was made public. As Carwyn Jones

was speaking, the report emerged. The Liberal Democrats had

discovered it. It is a report into AWEMA's projects. Those have

emerged far more recently. The report did warn that no more money

should be given to AWEMA and Taylor's performance improved. It

also made clear that the Assembly must apply more at scrutiny to the

charity. The spite a recommendation from an independent person, the

government gave �8 million to this organisation. The question is, why

did the government go to the trouble of commissioning a report

only to ignore it soundings? last government said it is

investigating AWEMA. The last government will expect to be

questioned on his findings. There will be questions on labour's links

with Naz Malik, a party activist. Some will want to know why a

charity so strongly criticised in 2004 were still in receipt of

public funds so many years later. Let's see what our best think of

that. Welcome to the programme. Mark Hannaby was commenting on this

report they came to light yesterday. It seems to suggest no money should

be given to an AWEMA. The First Minister did not know of the

reports were still in existence. am pleased it is in the public

domain. The report shown tomorrow is what his current. We want to

know what is happening now. The report is out tomorrow and it will

be important to see it and scrutinise it and see exactly what

has gone wrong. We make it premature by prejudging it today.

There was some point raised in the report they came out yesterday

suggesting no money should be given to AWEMA until they sort themselves

out. �8 million has been given. Does that raise the alarm bells?

does. So many organisations receive money from the government a we need

to have checks and balances in place to make sure these kind of

allegations don't happen. I have had sight of letters from the Chair

who wrote in 2007 to raise concerns. There have been a series of

allegations and why has there was government taken so long to act?

You are very Swansea Assembly Member, you have led the council in

Swansea, AWEMA is based in Swansea. What you make of the recent

headlines that it has been making? All these criticisms, they are

being made public now. We should have been discussing this 12 months

ago. We were discussing it eight years ago, I think. I have not been

contacted about it until very close to now. It is one of those things

that people and not able to go back to talk about it. Nobody has asked

the question in the Assembly about the 2004 report until today. That

does not mean that everything has been going on find. That is why

we're waiting for the report tomorrow and I am pleased to come

to talk to you about it. Do you think the government has dealt with

this as expeditiously as it could have done? I don't want to

scaremonger but the Welsh Government has had these reports.

In 2007 there was another one. The alarm bells were ringing. It is not

for... It is for the government is say they could put their money in

the right places. AWEMA phones smaller organisations, many in the

Swansea area. -- funds. The concept of what AWEMA does his noble that

is something we should all acknowledge but if they are going

to be alleging to Use money in these ways or there are allegations

of bullying, they need to be taken seriously. AWEMA was to be found

guilty of rape as much of anything a new organisation would have to be

-- Guild see all these, any organisation would have to beat

established. We will leave it there for now. We'll come back to late in

the programme. There is a full day in the Senedd today.

On that AWEMA story, the leader of the Welsh Conservatives has tabled

a special question on that hole developing issue. If that has been

accepted it will be something to lookout for. When we come to that

agenda we have got questions to ministers at the beginning, today

they are question to the Education Minister. There is a motion to

appoint auditors to the accounts of the Auditor General for Wales.

Emotion in the name of Mohammad Ashgar, the Conservative Assembly

Member, eight motion to table a Bill on enterprise that he was to

bring forward. After that we move to the substantive debates of the

afternoon and they should be interesting the stock that is a

debate on stroke reduction. They published a report in December

which said that stroke reduction in Wales was and what is should be an

quite willingly the reason for that was there is a failure to take

responsibility at different levels of the health service for

particular problems. There is something called atrial

fibrillation which is an irregular heart rate. That can lead to a very

fast heart rate, it clear factor in strokes. The committee's report

said as primary care are there was uncertainty at who was responsible

for the detection and treatment of that. A very interesting debate in

prospect there. On a similar matter, there is a health debate tabled by

the Conservatives. They want to look at the couple of errors that

might be areas of government policy that have not been delivered on.

Animal health checks for the but -- over 50s and the idea that the

Welsh Government wants to bring forward longer opening hours for

GPs. They are saying these things have been promised but nothing has

been delivered and they want to know why. At the end of the

afternoon we have a short debate, another interesting one. That is

from Dewi Morgan who is the Labour Assembly Member for Cardiff North.

-- Julie Morgan. It is about dangerous Dogs. What can be done to

change the law in Wales. She wants owners to be more responsible about

what dogs do. I hope to speak to her about her debate a little later

on. When I talk about dangerous Dogs with people be raised concerns

about dangerous owners. As usual you confine their the information

11 need about what is happening in the National Assembly on our

Democracy Live coverage. It is going to be busy day at Westminster.

Our correspondent Tomos Livingstone can tell us more. The controversial

NHS bill is in the Lords today. Today we hear the Health Secretary

has the Prime Minister's support. have seen Andrew Lansley this

morning and he is alive and well I was not wearing a flak jacket. The

fact that he picked up the newspaper and saw these quotes from

Downing Street, the Health Secretary should have been taken

out and shot. The stakes have got very high in this political row

over the health bill. The other is a government is feeling there is

nothing wrong with a policy but the way it has been communicated, the

way Andrew Lansley has been explaining it, has been a disaster.

The Health Bill has back in the Lords today. It is going through

some of the amendments the Government has tabled. There is an

impasse between the House of Lords and the House of Commons getting

his bill through. I am sure it will, Pym Prime Minister's Questions. The

stakes are so high on this because the Labour Party feel if they can

get anything that looks like a U- turn from the government it will

give Ed Miliband a huge amount of momentum. The Bill itself is

England only and you might say should we really worry about what

is happening to the English NHS? There are a couple of reasons why

perhaps we should wary in Wales. A lot of people who live in border

areas in Wales to travel to England to access parts of the NHS. We

should take an interest in what is happening. The second reason is it

has become this battle of wills between Labour on the one hand and

the Conservatives on the other and the question for the Conservatives

is are they willing to push through with what looks end increasingly

unpopular health bill as the price of getting through what they have

considered to be the necessary reforms? Are they willing to

detoxified the brand they have worked so hard to detoxified in

order to get through this health bill? The stakes are getting higher

even if Andrew Lansley is off death row's. For now at least. We speak

about bankers bonuses nearly every week. This morning we heard from

the Chief Executive of the Royal Bank of Scotland. His first

interview since he agreed not to take his annual bonus. He told to

the BBC this morning has said he understood the controversy around

the amount he gets paid and he did consider resigning but he is still

in post. He decided not to do that. He argued that the word he is doing

is Light diffusing a time bomb. This is something the nation should

be grateful for. An indication that he will be deserving of some sort

of bonus in future. Any issue that may come up in Prime Minister's

Questions from the backbenches rather than the front benches.

Downing Street has been happy, trigger-happy, on theirs. They are

quite happy to strip Fred Goodwin of his knighthood and to allow this

pressure to build op. Some Conservative MPs are worried this

is going too far and George Osborne, the Chancellor, giving his speech

last night saying this is an anti- business culture in Britain. Some

Tory MPs say that is good enough but they want action to back that

up and are looking to the budget next week -- next month for some

pro-business and to it as they should measures. We talk of hard

times and we mentioned Charles Dickens on yesterday's programme

and we hear the Cabinet have received some of the great man's

works as gifts. Jeremy Hunt has bought his colleagues a Charles

Dickens's book to mark the anniversary. Cheryl Gillan got a

copy of Pickwick Papers, the Prime Minister got a copy of hard times.

A bit are scratching at heads at the various choices. Jeremy Hunt

matched the pockets to it the recipient. -- the box. Some say

that Cheryl Gillan should have had Don't forget that we would like to

hear from you as well. You can get in touch with us on any of the

subjects we are talking about on Well, we will be hearing Ed

Miliband at Prime Minister's Questions shortly, but first of all,

we can hear from his brother. David Miliband was in Cardiff yesterday.

He is chairing the UK on behalf of Labour, and is also the chair of

the Commission on youth unemployment which has published a

report this week. He has described the problem of youth unemployment

in Wales as a scarf. I caught up with him on the streets of Cardiff

and asked him what he meant by that -- a scar. Everyone knows that when

someone is unemployed at a young age for a year or two, they are

much less likely to get into work later on in life. They are going to

lose time at work and his earnings, which is why it is very important

that we persuade the Government to take more measures, and also that

we recognise what the Welsh Assembly Government are trying to

do, which is to make a difference with the powers they have got

locally. Youth unemployment is something that we have known in the

past, we made huge strides to drive levels of youth unemployment down,

but since the recession they have been going up, and that is

dangerous for the country. Youth unemployment has been going up

since 2004 when there was a Labour government in the UK and here in

Wales. The rate is higher here than in any other part of the UK. Use

the Assembly Government is trying to bring them down, but it seems

they had just been going up under Labour's watch. The current

government did not invent the problem of youth unemployment.

Since the recession, the numbers have jumped. A 200% increase in

parts of Wales. There is a responsibility for the central

government in London. They are strangling the UK economy. Growth

rates have been completely setback. The recovery that Alistair Darling

has set in place has been reversed. How weather, we do recognise that

in Wales, the Assembly Government has made a priority. Carwyn Jones

is trying to get to the root of the problem. It is not a matter of

saying there were no problems under a Labour government. There was a

core problem, but that has now been compounded by the Conservative

Government's economic strategy. Turning to the Labour Party, you

have had some thoughts about the future of the party recently. What

lessons do you think that the Labour Party at UK level could take

from the Labour Party here in Wales, which of course is in government?

think the Welsh Labour Party is a good example of how you can come

back from taking some pits. Labour took some hits in 2007, but it made

a determined effort to renew itself, to rethink, and in 2011, it came

back with strong results. Now, we are seeing the fruits of that.

Innovative policies on jobs, housing, crime, they are being

pursued by the Welsh Assembly Government. We should take heart

that for me to rethink and apply our values in new ways it will have

a resonance with the electorate. There is a good lesson in Wales for

the rest of Britain. There are differences between the party here

and UK level. Carwyn Jones says he does not want to see public sector

pay frozen, which is something that your brother and Ed Balls have said

they would support at UK level. Do think that disagreement is healthy?

It is healthy that devolution is what it says on the 10th. What it

says on the tin is that decisions that can be taken locally should be

taken locally. It is healthy that weak suit the different approaches

to different parts of the country, and I don't think we should have

any fear of that atoll. Devolution has been good for Wales and of good

for Britain. You stood for the Labour leadership, you did not win,

your brother one. But is the leadership something that you have

parked now, or could you see yourself wanting to be leader in

the future? The only election I care about is the next general

election. That is an election that is going to be critical for the

future of Britain. I once Ed Miliband to become prime minister,

because I think he will be good for the country. I think the message

that I am begging him to the streets here is let's get stuck

game at grassroots level. We do have power at the Welsh Assembly

Government. We are seeking power in local councils in Wales, and it

will be the work that we do locally that develops ideas we can then

implement on a national level. discussed yacht seven-point plan,

what did he say? I stay in touch with him because he is my brother,

and his ideas reflect some of that rethinking that he talks about. It

is important that we learn and reflect on our defeat at UK level.

I spend the last 18 months on grassroots campaign and I have

learnt a lot about how we can reconnect with voters and I have

tried to set some of those that in my article in the New Statesman's.

We do need that restless spirit of rethinking when we lose, and we did

lose and we need to put that right. The other thing you have been doing

is being involved with Sunderland Football Club. Martin O'Neill has

turn them around. Do you have any tips for your brother who is

flagging in the polls? He is winning some important arguments

himself. I think that Martin has really given the club a sense of

mission, and I think that that is the football example. I always wary

- football is not the same as politics. Politics is in a world of

its own. That was David Miliband. Let's chat

with a guess about the main theme of that interview, which was the

levels of youth unemployment in Wales. David Miliband described it

as a scar on the country. Do you agree? I wish she had seen it as a

scar on the country when he was in government. It is hypocritical of

government. It is hypocritical of them now to be saying that there

are problems of youth and employment when it has been

happening for the last 10 years at least. I think he did accept that

Labour have not properly got to grips with the problem, didn't he?

You can say anything in opposition. From Plaid's point of view, we

would like to have more of the financial levers here in Wales so

we can alleviate some of these problems. Young people in Wales are

one of the highest propensity of We need to change that and put more

investment into capital projects, more investment into

apprenticeships, so that young people can get of the dependency

system and get back into work. That is increasingly impossible. Bethan

Jenkins accepts that the levers are not here in Wales. It can't be the

Labour's world Government's fault then, can it? I agree with her when

she says you can say anything in opposition. Firstly, we saw in the

1980s when I was a young man watching the Conservative Club and

then in Wales, and now we see them doing the same thing again. We

should be thankful for devolution, and thankful that we have got a

Welsh Labour government in power. 4,000 jobs have been produced

across Wales for youngsters aged 16 to 24 and this gives them an

opportunity they would not have got if they were in England. When will

those jobs be filled? understanding is from April onwards.

Thirdly, what Labour is trying to do to promote apprenticeships -

again, back in the 80s, apprenticeships disappeared. I grew

up in an age where people had a choice at 16 either to do an

apprenticeship or to stay on in school. Those opportunities don't

exist at the level they did then, but we need to get more

apprenticeships, if only because the number of skilled workers is

declining. We will leave it there for now. We will join you again

before Prime Minister's Questions. Still to come, we will go live to

the House of Commons for questions to David Cameron. That is at midday,

of course. Time to go back to Mark where a backbencher is calling for

the Welsh government to introduce a new law in a bid to crack down on

dangerous dogs and their owners. Some dangers, some not, I'm sure.

That's right, it is a severe problem. I am joined now by Julie

Morgan, the AM for Cardiff North. You are concerned about this and

you are bringing forward a debate today. Is it a growing problem in

Wales, dangerous dogs attacking people? Yes, it does seem to be. I

found out that there are three attacks every week. Those are the

reported attacks. A lot of this does not go reported. It does seem

to be a growing problem, and I think we have got to tackle it.

particular, your attention was grabbed by an awful event - one of

your own constituents. Yes, last September a child was badly bitten

with severe bites to the face. He will have to have treatment for

many years. That is what triggered me into thinking I have to look at

this issue and see if anything can be done to prevent it happening

again. Why do you feel that something needs to change with the

law? People would assume, perhaps wrongly, that laws are already in

place to deal with these incidents? The danger stocks Act 1991 is

generally considered a discredited bit of registration -- dangerous

Dogs Act. It was done in a rush as a reaction took an awful incident,

but what has happened is that there are more dog bites happening, more

dogs out of control, and we really want to shift the emphasis. The Act

concentrated on the breed of dog, whereas the important thing is to

try to shift the emphasis to the owners of the docks, and to

encourage responsible ownership. We know how important animals are to

so many people, and there are so many responsible owners. But there

are irresponsible owners, too, and we need to move the law so that we

are looking at before these awful incidents happen. I want to see

more preventative work. particular, there are three things

you are suggesting. Could you run through those? I would like to see

compulsory microchip think of all dogs. That is something that is

within the assembly's power. I know the minister is thinking about it,

but that would be a huge step forward. If all dogs had microchips

it would be great for responsible dog owners because dogs and their

owners could be United if they were lost, and for the non- responsible

dog owners they cannot deny responsibility for any incident

that may occur. It encourages responsible ownership, that people

will ink -- work hard to look after their dog. The other thing I want

to happen is more preventative measures. For example, if a dog

does start to show aggressive tendencies without hurting anybody,

that this can be notified and something can be done about it.

That is one of the things that I think has been introduced in

Scotland. Control orders? Yes. There is a new Dogs Act that was

introduced in Scotland which does take up many of the issues that I

want to see, and that is one of them. If you get in there quickly,

you can put a certain restriction on a dog. An owner can have to go

for training and learn to be responsible with the stock control

orders. Dogs could wear muzzles or be taken by lead. All these things

could stop these horrendous incidents happening. The other

thing I would want to see is a lot more responsible training available,

so the docks... It is like a child, you have got to show dogs had to

socialise, train them, make them up respond to you. There are courses

available to do that for dogs, and I would like all of that written in

the Lawson have. I would like us to explore here in Wales with the

powers we have got for Animal Welfare, how we could move away

from the Dangerous Dogs Act 1991 and come to something much more

preventative. There is a whole range of things you want to

introduce and I am sure this is only the start of the process.

Thank you for joining us. We will head off to the House of

Commons any minute now. Let's have a quick chat with our guests to see

what they expect to come up. We heard from our reporter earlier and

he mentioned bonuses and the NHS and I also think the Falklands is

in the news. What you think will feature heavily in Prime Minister's

Questions? I would be surprised if a health does not come up. It is

one of those days where I thank my lucky SARS I live in Wales. Because

of the differences in health? What is happening is that they are

dismantling what was an excellent National Health Service. Bethan

Jenkins, do you think help will dominate? I am sure because it is a

political football now. David Miliband said not to mixed football

with politics. I don't know if I would want to take his advice very

often! I'm sure it issues like Syria will come up as well in terms

of the issue with Russia and arms deals, and it will be interesting

to look at that. In recent weeks, Ed Miliband seems to have landed

some metaphorical blows on the Prime Minister. Would you expect

The discussion around a network of rail bonuses as well. It should be

for the opposition Party today but David Cameron can perform quite

well in a Prime Minister's Questions so we will have to see.

Is David or Ed Miliband, which is your favourite? A Ed Miliband is

the current leader and I think he is doing eight great job. He has

been successful in Prime Minister's Questions. We will head over there.

We will have a cup of tea well we watched the goings-on in

Westminster. They are finishing off with the

Cabinet to office business. -- Cabinet Office business. They have

been frozen out of the process. We are determined to open that up and

enable more who attended the UK- based you paid an bit successfully.

Can I welcome the wise decision by the Minister to fund a bit by eight

Neither I nor my friend -- I either I or my friend will fall foul that.

Before listing my engagements I'm sure the whole House will wish to

join with me in paying tribute to her Majesty the Queen during this

absolutely historic week marking the 60th anniversary of her

accession to the throne. Her 60 years of remarkable leadership and

dedicated public service and an inspiration to us all on Sunday the

whole country and the Commonwealth can be immensely proud of. Members

will have the opportunity to pay individual trip is during the

humble address a debate on 7th March. Ayes will have further such

meetings later today. -- I will. am sure the whole House not least

myself would wish to join the Prime Minister in his warm tribute to her

Majesty. In March last year the Prime Minister said there is no

reason for there to be fewer front line police officers. Can the Prime

Minister confirm that frontline officer numbers have been cut in 40

out of 43 police forces. proportion of officers on the

frontline is Op. -- is up. I am sure he will want to join with me

in congratulating Boris Johnson on his excellent record on crime in

our capital. Total crime is down, violent crime is down on buses and

tubes, 11,000 knives and guns have been taken off our streets and

there are thousands best like 1,000 more officers on the streets of

London. That together with his reminder of the role of the dangers

of tweeting, it is a good start to the day. Do you share my

disappointment at the overthrow yesterday of the first

democratically elected President of the Mall Deaves in a coup d'etat

and given our historic links with the island will the government by

we have a message do all they can to ensure than no violence resorts

and the democratic institutions remain. -- more Deaves. This

country does have strong links with the islands and has had a good

relationship with the President. We have to be clear, he has resigned

and we have a strong interest in the well-being of several thousand

British tourists. Our High Commissioner is in the capital now

and meeting all the political leaders. We call the new government

to demonstrate its respect for all political parties and their members

and ensure the constitution is upheld. We advise British tourists

to avoid non-essential travel on those using the airport and the

tourist resorts should exercise caution.

Mr Speaker, can I join the Prime Minister in paying tribute to her

Majesty the Queen as we celebrate her Diamond Jubilee. Her dedication

to the country and to public service is an inspiration and an

example to us all. We all look forward to the official celebration

later this year. It will enable us to celebrate both are Majesty and

our country. Mr Speaker, on the day the Prime Minister completed his

NHS listening exercise, he said this, some of the people who work

in the NHS were sceptical of our changes. Today we are taking people

with us. It is in that spirit of unity that we want to continue. Why

does he think he has failed? Today, 95% of the country is

covered by general practitioners who won not actually supporting our

reforms but implementing them. Just today... Order, order. The House

must calm down. Let's hear the answers. They will be plenty of

time. Just to they 50 foundation trusts

have written to the newspapers in support of our reforms and

objecting to what Labour are proposing. The signature at the top

of the list which he may not have noticed is one and Campbell, the

former Labour MP for Cambridge. She, running the local Foundation Trust,

supports the reform. Labour MPs leave this House as that to

implement Coalition policy. -- and start to. He doesn't event believe

that nonsense. Last Friday the Royal College of General

Practitioners said this about his health bill -- it will cause

irreparable damage to patient care and jeopardise the NHS. It is nice

to see the Health Secretary year. Some distance away, I notice. The

Prime Minister says he wants that voice of doctors to be heard in the

NHS. Why doesn't he listen to them? It is good to get a lecture on

happy families are! I care passionately about our NHS not

least because of what it has done for my family and because the

amazing service that I have received. I want to see that

excellence service implemented for everyone and that means two things.

We have got to put more money into the NHS and we are putting the

money in but it also means we have got to reform the NHS. He used to

be in favour of the reform. Who said this? To safeguard the NHS and

tough times we need sustained reform. That was in the Labour

manifesto at the last election. On the issue of money, because the

money in it NHS is important, we are committed to a �12.5 billion in

this Parliament and yet his health spokesman sitting right there said

"it will be irresponsible to spend more money and the NHS". They are

not in favour of the report -- reform, there are unsure of

opportunists. -- they array Ben should opportunists. The Tory

Reform Group has come out against these proposals. I have to say it

it comes to something when even the Tories don't trust the Tories on

the NHS. Listen to what the chair of the royal college of GPs and...

When the people they want to put at the heart of the NHS say things

about there bail, they just grown. It says it all. This bill is a

burden. Aid makes no sense. It is in clear and, it will not deal with

the big issues. It will result in the health service as certainly

will never match the health service we had 12 months ago. Mr Speaker,

which part of that doesn't he understand? Let's look at what

happened to the NHS over the last 18 months. Let's look at the

figures. 100,000 patients treated more every month. 4,000 extra

doctors as the NHS. A number of clerical staff his Op. -- is up. A

number of people in mixed sex wards is down. That is what is happening

because you have got a combination of money going in and reform. We

know what happens if you don't put in the money and you don't do the

reform because there is one part of the NHS which is run by Labour and

that is in Wales. Let's have a look at what is happening to the NHS in

Wales. They have cut the money and one-third of people awaiting longer

than 18 months. Abdelbaset Ali al- Megrahi 18 weeks. That is what is

happening. He thought that the NHS was his way to modernising the

Conservative Party and I am afraid it is coming apart. I will tell him

why. The promises he made before the election are coming back to

haunt him. We all remember that promise, no more top-down

reorganisations. And now he says he knows better than the doctors,

better than the nurses, better than the midwives, the Patient

Associations, people who day in day out rely on and devote their lives

to the health service. This is a matter of trust in the Prime

Minister. Can he honestly look people in the health service in the

eye and say he has kept his promise of no more top-down reorganisation?

What we're doing is cutting the bureaucracy and in a Test. We are

taking out 4 two and a half billion pounds of bureaucracy. -- �4.5

million and. That is what is happening in the NHS. There is one

group of people I will not listen to and that is that people who run

the NHS under Labour. This is what they dead. �6 billion wasted on the

NHS computer, �250 million spent on private sector operations that were

never carried out, we have still got private finance initiative

agreements where we pay �300 every time someone changes a light bulb.

That is what we got from Labour. We are putting the money in and the

reform in. The operations Arafat, the waiting times are down. That is

how what is going to stay. -- the More doctors and nurses than ever

before one under Labour. The highest level of patient

satisfaction ever in the health service. Everyone will have heard a

Prime Minister unable to defend the promise he made. The promise of no

more top-down reorganisation. A Prime Minister who has broken his

word. The reality is this, all his attention is on this. This top-down

reorganisation and the front line are suffering. The number of people

waiting more than 18 weeks are up under him. Cancelled operations.

Why won't he give up and stop waiting billions and drop his bail?

If the record was so good why would be thrown out at the last election?

Order, order. I am worried about opposition members famous calm

themselves and do so straight away. Prime Minister. Let me remind the

right honourable honourable gentleman of the clear test that he

set for the reforms and that he set for the government. He said the

test whether waiting times and lists would come down. Let me give

him the figures. In-patient waiting times are down. Out-patient waiting

times are down. The number of people waiting more than a year and,

down to its lowest level. The number of people waiting six months

is down. The number of people on the waiting list, what he said has

a clear test, that is down. That is what it proves about this Labour

leader. Even when he moves the goalposts he can't put it in the

back of the net was up the person who is moving the goalposts is the

Prime Minister. The key test as well sat -- that was set for the

health service was the number of people waiting more than 18 weeks

and that is up 43% since the general election. However much he

twists and turns, that is the reality. He knows in his heart of

hearts this is a complete disaster. That is why his aides are saying

the Health Secretary should be taken out and shot because they

know it is a disaster. The reality is this, that doctors know it is

bad for the NHS, the nurses know it is bad for the NHS and the patients

know it is bad for the NHS. He fights for this bail and every day

trust in him on the NHS at some way and every day it becomes clear at

the health service is not safe in The career prospects for my right

honorable Friend are a lot better than his! That is what this is

about. This is not a campaign to save the NHS. This is a campaign to

try and save his leadership. I make this prediction. The NHS will go on

getting better, and his prospects will go on getting worse. When the

work programme was introduced in 2010 those economically active has

climbed. Would the Prime as delight to congratulate the people of

Burley and in particular the recruitment people for that

success? I joined my Honourable Friend in botany congratulating the

people in Burnley, but also those conducting the work programme and

our welfare reforms. What we're seeing is more people become able

to work and therefore able to enter the workforce and to raise not only

the country's living standards, but their own, too. People in Preston

are furious that the Indian government has selected a French

company for the Indian air force jet. The Prime Minister goes on

repeatedly about rebalancing the UK economy and this is a major blow to

manufacturing in they a colony. Why is this Prime Minister not doing

this and why have we not got this contract with the Indian

government? The Honourable Gentleman ought to think about the

fact that all European leaders are actually backing the Eurofighter

project. It is a German projects, an Italian project, a Spanish

project, a British project, and that is why -- how it should be. I

am disappointed by what has happened in India, but the

Eurofighter is not out of the contest, and we need to re-engage

as hard as we can to make sure that we get the best deal for all those

workers in Britain who make them. I think this is something that ought

to unite parties in this house, getting behind our great defence

producers. A constituent of mine found that her GP and her

consultant had to write 70 appeal letters. When will healthcare

consultants decide what it means that patients can get. This is an

important point. Since the introduction of the Cancer Drugs

Fund under this Government, 10,000 more people have been able to get

cancer drugs that are so essential. Let me tell you one thing that

would really damage cancer treatment in this country, and that

is the proposal from the party opposite to cap at 5% any private

sector involvement in our hospitals. At the Royal Marsden, one of the

best cancer hospitals in the country, they would have to cut by

a quarter the services that they deliver. What a crazy left-wing

plan but only the Honourable Gentleman could come up with.

Speaker, in three months' time, just before the Olympics, Abu

Qatada, a truly dangerous man, will be roaming the streets of London

with his mobile phone and internet access, thanks to the Prime

Minister abolishing control orders and house arrest provisions. How

can the Prime Minister justified but think the public's right to

life at risk in order to get over to the Liberal Democrats on their

demands? It is disgusting. situation with Abu Qatada is

completely unacceptable. As I said when I went to Strasbourg to make a

speech about this issue, it is not acceptable that we end up with a

situation where we have someone in the country that threatens to do

harm, that you cannot try, that you cannot attain, and you cannot

deport. That is why the Government will do everything it can, working

with our Jordanian friends and allies, to make sure that he can be

deported. Again, instead of sliding about this, the whole house or to

unite to help sort this out. recently as last autumn, only a

tiny handful of the 165 acute mental health adult in-patient beds

in Hampshire were vacant, yet the trust concerned proposes to cut

those 165 beds do 107, replacing them with something called a

hospital at home or a virtual Ward. Given that I believe that the

statistics on which this is based are inconsistent and a re --

unreliable, will the Prime Minister support my call for independent

experts from the Audit Commission to look at those figures before

those beds are closed? Honourable Gentleman makes an

important point. We are putting the extra resources into the NHS. There

needs to be a clear series of tests, as there are now under our plans,

before any facilities are changed or closed. That is about making

sure there is a GP backing for what is proposed, and making sure that

any such changes would improve the health in that area. I will happily

look at the issues he raises as make sure that the Department of

Health engage with him on that issue. For police authorities,

including one I share with the Chancellor, have just started

buying Hyundai cars imported from Korea. Add to that the Thameslink

fiasco, add to that Olympic tickets, when are we going to see some

leadership from the Prime Minister about public procurement in this

country? The most important thing in terms of police procurement is

that police forces get together and procured together to cut their

costs. I think we have all lost count of the times of wandering

through police stations and seeing countless different types of

vehicle, all costing a large amount of money. What the public want is

police on the streets, not money spent on a necessary be Kierman. --

and necessary procurement. Could my right honorable Friend tell the

House what steps he is taking to ensure the UK will be able to

evacuate all UK nationals from conflict zones and reduce our

reliance on civil chartered aircraft? This is an important one.

The Libya evacuation and other potential evacuations in a

dangerous world had brought home to ask the importance of having

transport aircraft in the MoD and in the RAF, and I can announce

today that because the MoD's finances are now better run and

managed, and because we have found savings, we will be able to

purchase an additional C 17 for the RAF. This aircraft is becoming

absolutely brilliant work was for the RAF in terms of bringing men

and material into a war zone like Afghanistan, and also evacuating

civilians in times of need. It is important investment for the

country. May I first of all associate myself with the tributes

to her Majesty the Queen. Yesterday, the all-party independent group on

stalking published its report. The Prime Minister knows of my interest

in this subject, and the government consultation concluded yesterday.

Will he now please meet with myself and a small group of all party

members to discuss this urgent need for a stalking law? We do take this

issue very seriously and I am happy to meet with him and discuss it. I

know he has had conversations with the Home Office. If there is a need

for legislative changes, there may well be opportunities in the next

session for that sort of criminal justice legislation and I will

happily meet and talk with him about debt. During apprenticeship

week, we have increased the number of apprenticeships in my

constituency over the last three years, and the Government has

increased the number of apprenticeships by 100 Z D 7,000 in

the last year alone. Does my right Hon events agree that achievements

like these illustrate the importance and commitment required

to give apprenticeships at the focus and attention and recognition

that they deserve? My Honourable Friend is right. It is one of the

most important investments we can make in the future industrial base

of this country, and helping young people is investing in

apprenticeships. The number is up by a staggering 60% in the last

year. 457,000 people starting apprenticeships. In apprenticeship

week, it is important to stress what we are doing to get over the

objectors and the pass that people have had, making sure there are

more apprenticeships more easily had by small businesses, making

sure we have higher levels of apprenticeships to show that they

are every bit as good as having a university degree, and often

involve a degree. And also, cutting the bureaucracy by allowing big

businesses to actually run the schemes themselves, rather than

doing it through a training provider. All of these things make

a big difference. Why has not the Government lodged an appeal against

the Abu Qatada judgment? Are you not being dangerously complacent,

Prime Minister? We are doing everything we can to get this man

out of the country. The key thing to do is an agreement with Jordan

about the way that he will be treated because the European Court

on Human Rights has made a very clear judgment on that. I happen to

think it is the wrong judgment and I regret it. He should have been

deported years ago, but nevertheless, if we can get that

agreement with Jordan, he can be on his way. Small businesses are

nervous about hiring new staff. Would the Prime Minister agree that

we need a simpler alternative for our smallest firms for dismissal

rules? My Honourable Friend is right to raise this issue. If every

small business in the country hired an additional worker that would go

a long way to during both long-term and total unemployment in one

stroke. We have got to make it easier for businesses to take

people on. One of business is key considerations is how difficult it

is to let someone go if it does not work out, and that is why extending

to two years the amount of time you have to work before getting access

to a tribunal would make a real difference. We have heard from the

Prime Minister how Italian governments and German governments

are out there fighting for British jobs. Can the Prime Minister tell

us exactly how many phone conversations he had directly with

the Indian Prime Minister about the Typhoon bit, and when the last

conversation actually took place? raised this issue repeatedly on my

visit to India, and indeed at the G20. Let me remind her of one

important fact. When I loaded up an aeroplane with British businesses,

including people like Rolls-Royce, and took them round the Gulf to

sell our defensive equipment, who was it who attacked me? Who was it

that does not stand up for British industry and British jobs? It is

Labour! I visited the offices at a press but is he -- hear what my

constituents have been saying to them about proposed changes to

services at the hospital. Labour's tragic legacy in my constituency is

distrust and despair. Does he agree with me that the right way to

deliver local accountability in health care in my constituency is

Clan na Gael conditioning and Foundation Trust statement --

clinical conditioning? The whole point of the reforms is to put the

power in the hands of local doctors so that they make decisions on

behalf of patients and what is good for health care in their local area.

Meat may well find that the committee hospitals that were

repeatedly undermined by the party opposite would actually get a great

boost because local people and doctors want to see them sexy. That

is what our reforms are all about. Thousands of women have been left

sick with anxiety regarding the PIP implants, and now they are being

compounded by a dithering and a jazz. In the future we can see...

Will the Prime Minister pledged to support the NHS up and claim

against the clinics are later and drop the Bill so that we don't have

this happening again in future? me take this question in two halves.

She is entirely right about this scandal of these implants. The

Government has made absolutely clear that we will offer every one

of those women a free consultation and make sure that on the NHS we do

everything we can to help them. It is an absolute scandal, and the

private clinics that carried out those operations should feel the

maximum pressure to undo the harm that they have done. But, let me

just say to her, about the issue of greater competition and choice

within the NHS, I actually think she should listen to past Labour

politicians who have set themselves that greater choice, greater

competition, the involvement of the private sector that can help raise

standards in our NHS system, and that is why we should support it.

The threat to shipbuilding jobs at Portsmouth dockyard raises a

question over 1,500 livelihoods, and also 32,000 jobs in the wider

regional supply chain. I know that the Prime Minister shares my

concerns about this, but will he committed doing all he can to

protect this site where they have been building warships for over 500

years? The Honourable Lady is absolutely right to speak up for

Portsmouth and for her constituency, and to speak up for shipbuilding.

BAe Systems has not approached the Government with any proposal to

nationalised shipbuilding in the UK. As far as I know, no decisions have

been taken by the country. We are building the new frigates, built in

the global combat ship, building these submarines. There are plans

for replacing Trident, and also there are plans well under way for

having aircraft carriers. That is a major punched for the Royal Navy

The tax raised on North Sea oil in gas and putting jobs at risk. Can I

ask the Prime Minister not be complacent about north-east jobs

better incentive vies offshore development and guarantee tax

relief on platform the commissioning in the budget and to

meet with me and others about the job situation the North-East.

honourable lady raises an important point. When I went Aberdeen, I saw

how this -- how vital this industry is and how much investment is

taking place in the North Sea. The reason we put up the tax on North

Sea was to cut petrol duty for families up-and-down the country.

We will make sure... Members are falling about. I want to hear the

Prime Minister's answer. We will make sure there is a good tax

regime for the North Sea if it is servicing jobs in England or

Scotland. Last Wednesday the Commons rejected the Lords attempts

on the reform bills. The Commons voted, the Prime Minister and

Deputy Prime Minister voted. The children as minister, the

honourable member for Brent South were at -- Central, has spoken

against the policy. On occasion I have spoken against the government

and not supported them. But I am not a government minister. Why is

she still a government minister? want to hear the Prime Minister! We

weren't if there is too much noise. I thought he was going to say yes.

The honourable lady is a government minister, she support government

policy as all government ministers do. There are changes to

contributing to unemployment support allowance. The last 10% are

going to lose �4,900 a year. Is this their government of value?

important Valleywood respect to employment support allowance is we

are saying there are two groups, the support groups whole are not

able to work, we deserve to get that were and for as long as they

need it without any element of means testing. The second element,

the Work Related Activity Group, a people need help to get work but

will be able to work. That is why they're in that group and they

would get tailored help and support under the work programme. The

Labour Party has set his face it is welfare reform and they think

they're making a massive mistake. Russia and China set themselves

against Arab opinion and world opinion in what passing what would

have been a strong and good UN resolution. My right honourable

friend the Foreign Secretary was right to push for the resolution.

We need to see, and Bristol will be playing a big part in this, his

real engagement with the opposition group. -- and Britain. We need to

bring together the strongest international alliance so we can

co-ordinate our efforts with respect to getting rid of this

dreadful regime in Syria and making sure through the you we continue

with sanctions and pressure. -- the EU. The Russians have to look at

their consciences and realise what they have done but the rest of the

world will keep on fighting as hard as we can to give the Syrian people

a chance to choose their own future. The health expert is visiting the

UK is saying the NHS remains a beacon for care and effectiveness

in the world. It needs to be improved and perfected not changed.

Will the Prime Minister accept that advice and abandon the Health Bill?

Labour's approach to the NHS in Wales these to be abandoned. He

shakes his head. This is what is happening in Wales. They have cut

health spending by �400 million. That is a 6.5% cut. To end-December

sent of people in Wales wait more than six weeks for diagnostic

services. -- 27%. A third of people waiting more than 18 weeks for

their operation in Wales. That is what you get if you get Labour.

Many of my constituents are worried about redundancies announced by

Ceri foods. The honourable honourable gentleman for Great

Grimsby and died a poached egg is the Commons for support which I am

sure will be forthcoming. -- have approached departments in the

Commons. He is quite right to speak up for

in constituents in this way. The Chancellor is very happy to look at

the idea of expanding the Enterprise Zone and seeing what has

we can do to help his constituents and make sure they get into work.

There is Prime Minister's Questions over for another week. Plenty of

tributes in the Chamber for Her Majesty the Queen but no consensus

on the health bill. The Prime Minister called on how the NHS is

being run in Wales. I shan't ask confirmed a republican

Bethan Jenkins to pay tribute to the Queen but I will ask you, Mike

Hedges, what you thought it David Cameron's attack on the NHS in

Wales which is run by your party. would say he is wrong. The only

thing have found interesting was his party in the Assembly, he was

talking about a 20% cut, he has dropped its is six and 5%. It could

have been caused by a cut by his government in Westminster. Do you

accept what he was saying about 27% of people Waits's more for

diagnostics in Wales. -- wait. know the problem with Orthopaedics

in words which the Health Minister put substantial amounts of money in.

Bethan Jenkins, I am sure your party would love to hear where has

mentioned during Prime Minister's Question but perhaps not in that

context. The Prime Minister did come under a lot of pressure from

Ed Miliband on the NHS. Could you think came off better? -- who do

you think. There were questions planted on both sides from Labour,

stating how bad these changes were and from the Tories, in praising

clinicians. It is difficult to tell. In terms of the references to Wales,

David Cameron will be doing much more of this now we are fully aware

Wales as the only place where Labour has any form of power. He

will be constantly referring to Labour mishandling or failures. I

agree that the Budget has been cut from Westminster and it is a bit

hypocritical for him to say lookout bad Wales is coping. If we had that

investment we would not be cutting any budget at all. That is my

analysis. If we look at who the Prime Minister and Ed Miliband had

sat next to them, Ed Miliband had Andy Byrne and who was the Health

Secretary -- Andy Byrne them. Andrew Lansley was a mile away from

David Cameron. Maybe he was frightened he was going to get

shot! Perhaps the Prime Minister was distancing himself from Andrew

Lansley. He is pushing him further and further to was the end of the

front bench until eventually he falls off. You mentioned Syria

would, and it did. Congratulations for that one. Foreign affairs don't

feature as much as the used to. What do you make of William Hague's

stands on sit here? He has come out quite a strongly is the Russians.

The West and pensions are selling arms to other Middle-Eastern

countries so I think if you're going to sell weapons to other

Middle Eastern tyrants you can't criticise Russia. -- the Western

nations. William Hague hasn't got a clear run on theirs. Elfyn Llwyd

had a question on stalking. The Prime Minister said he would meet

he -- me to him and people from other parties to discuss the

introduction of the stalking law. This is a non-party political issue.

It is something that has got to beat them. Women tend to be on the

receiving end. It is usually former boyfriends who decide they don't

want to be former boyfriends and it creates a huge problem and a huge

amount of fear. There seems to be a lack of action. Following somebody

around, and generally making them feel nervous doesn't seem enough

until something happens to them. you agree legislation needs to come

in? Definitely. In terms of rehabilitation for offenders, it is

something we need to recognise. Elfyn Llwyd has been leading on

this about a rehabilitation and that should come hand in hand with

the new law. There is no point in sending somebody to jail for two

years, they need to be rehabilitated. It is some sort of

mental illness that made them so obsessive. It is important that

when they come out they don't go back to stalking again. Many thanks.

We will be back before we finish this afternoon. Coming up, we will

hear from two Welsh MPs as they discuss agriculture in the Welsh

Grand Committee. There are now three, and Simon Thomas pulled out

of the Plaid Cymru leadership contest switching his support to

Elin Jones. We have heard from one of his supporters last week and we

have heard from supporters of Leanne Wood and Elin Jones was up

this time it is the turn of bad at Ellis Thomas. -- this time it is

the turn of Dafydd Ellis Thomas. Why do you reckon he has the

attributes to lead the party at what is a crucial time?

There are many things, one is the clear the need for us to get a

united party that up we need stability and a feeling that we

have the team all over Wales and the team that is represented at

different levels of government. The are the crucial thing is the new

leader has to understand what government is all about. Plaid

Cymru exists because Wales exists. To improve the lot of Wales we need

to be in Government at whatever level. He understands that and has

got a role to play in government for the better of Wales. There has

been a tendency across the parties when selecting new party leaders.

They tend to jump a generation. The Conservatives did it with David

Cameron and Labour did it with Tony Blair. You're jumping back a

generation. We need to recognise who was the best person to serve a

party. Recognising that Wales via her National Assembly has

progressed over recent years very much soap YouTube that the Ellis

Thomas, -- due to it than it Ellis He has the ability to do that. He

is a recognised figure outside the party and that is the key issue.

The party leader must show they project themselves out words rather

than be inward-looking and that is sometimes one of the things we do

as a party rather too much. stressed the need to have

leadership skills. The reality is he has not been in a position, a

frontline position, in politics for many years. He has been the

Assembly Presiding Officer. Isn't it's like the referee in a football

match deciding to stop being a referee and wanting to become one

of the team leaders? What he is concentrating on his his role as

progressing the constitution of Wales. He has done that

magnificently and we are now at a situation where the National

Assembly has law making powers. The next step is to make sure that we

as a party, we has Plaid Cymru, can be a party of government and to

drive Wales forward. We are ambitious for Wales. To realise

that ambition we have to make sure we are in government and hopefully

after the next election we will be You mentioned there the work he has

done with taking forward the constitutional agenda. You are a

council leader, you are involved in spending millions, you are also

involved in looking for cuts because of the current economic

climate. How does Dafydd Elis- Thomas relate beyond that

constitutional debate - what is his big idea in terms of the services

that actually affect people's daily lives? You are absolutely right.

There is a danger that we are navel-gazing, and maybe look at the

constitution as a deal breaker as far as the people of Wales are

concerned. The deal breaker is the quality of life for people in Wales,

and I think he has an agenda of sustainability at all levels, be

its environmental, social or economic, so that we can build this

new Wales, a vibrant Wales, that will take its role in the world as

well and will be able to play on the world stage, as well as

promoting a better quality of life and achievement for the people of

Wales at all levels. We will go back now to mark to find

out more about one of the debates in the Assembly today. The

Conservatives are upset about what they see as unfulfilled health

pledges by the Government. I am joined by Darren Mellor. What has

got your goat about what you see as a failure to deliver on health?

have been told that a haul of this term would be about delivery on the

NHS, delivery on education and delivery on so many other things,

and yet we are now many months into the first year of the 4th Assembly,

and yet we have not seen at two of the primary pledges in the Labour

manifesto fulfilled. One of those was access to GPs by extending

opening hours in local practices between 8am and 8pm and also on

Saturdays, and the other in terms of extending access to over 50s

screening for everybody in Wales on an annual basis, led by GPs and

clinicians. It is not happening and there were no plans to make it

happen. Surely it is not fair to say there are no plans. We know for

example the extended hours have been discussed by the Health

Committee. You know as well as I do that it takes time to implement

those kind of policies. Things are happening, maybe not as quickly as

you would like, but it is unfair to say plans are not in motion.

have been asking questions of ministers for many months on these

issues, and it appears they are getting further and further behind.

For example in July of last year, I tabled questions asking about

whether the detailed costings of those plants had been worked out

and I was told that they were being worked on and that there would be

more information coming late in the year. In the autumn, we ask further

questions and it appeared that there were no detailed costings

because these things were going to cost more money. We were told there

would be a statement in their new year. We have just come into the

new year and there has been no statements. I am looking forward to

seeing what the minister has got to say. Indeed, it will be interesting

to see what is said. Let's turn to a different subject. I am keen to

get your take on this AWEMA story. This 2004 report, what do you make

of its significance? It is very important because it will include a

number of recommendations which point to the fact that no more

public money should have been given to this organisation and less

rigorous processes and procedures were in place which would be

monitored by the Welsh government. It would appear that those

processes have not been put in place and that the advice in that

report has not been heeded. I think the Welsh government have lots of

questions to answer on this, and I am delighted we will have the

opportunity to question government ministers today. We should guard

against jumping to too many conclusions because this report was

looking at something entirely separate from the current business.

There was no indication of financial wrongdoing or bullying.

This was about a failure to deliver on projects, and it could well be

that those particular grievances were addressed at the time.

talks in the report about the need to make sure there is adequate

management of finances, adequate management of products -- projects,

and it made a clear recommendation that no further public funds should

have been given to AWEMA NS those processes were improved. It would

seem that some of those allegations point to the fact that they may not

be improvement in the margin of the situation. The permanent secretary

has admitted as much. I think there are questions to ask of ministers

about their involvement in sorting this out. I know that your leader

has got a question tabled this afternoon and it will be

interesting to see what comes out of that. Thank you for joining us.

I alluded to it earlier. The Welsh Grand Committee of MPs is meeting

in Westminster today, discussing agriculture. Our reporter has been

speaking to the shadow farming minister and the Liberal Democrat

MP for Brecon, Roger Williams, about cap reform.

You are the shadow farming minister, and I saw that you tweeted

yesterday asking people for their thoughts on farming, on agriculture.

Was cap the common agriculture policy, the thing that people were

getting back to you on? That was one, but the most responses I had

in response to that was over the abolition of the Agricultural wages

bill which is a travesty. Farmers' Union of Wales have always

supported the board because it has kept a defiant -- decent standard

of living but it has also made sure they have got the right skilled

people in place. This government in the UK has decided to abolish it.

Estimates have said it will take �9 million a year out of the UK

economy. What is the effect of that on the Welsh economy? Cap reform is

vital importance a lot of the debate today will focus around that,

and Welsh farmers do have concerns because they are great stewards of

the country, but also want to make sure they can sustain the tub of

Welsh farming which is typically small family farms, rather than the

type of funds we might see in East Anglia or elsewhere. Plaid Cymru

argued that 80% of farm revenue comes from the cap policy, so what

have a huge impact on those farmers? It could do, and there are

a number of details that I could bore you with. The essence is,

where it has been going for a number of years is towards the

public benefits as well as food production, away from the old idea

of subsidies for farmers simply to produce goods for shops. What this

is to do with his, for example, on the hills in Wales the of

reintroduction of white cattle for the first time in a generation in

order to help flood alleviation, the issue of how we deal with the

restoration of box. That is where a lot of the money is going to now,

as well as food production. The other thing that people want to

know, is will this help us with affordable prices on our shelves?

One of the things we will discuss today is whether the new groceries

adjudicator have real teeth to deliver for farmers and also for

consumers. These are vital issues. Roger Williams, the cap policy has

get Europe's food price is pretty high. Do you think that needs to

change, and will that have an impact on trade and export?

disagree actually. We have just had some statistics from the library

here we show is over a very long period of time, food prices have

remained very stable. They have been a few spikes just recently,

and I think that is a warning shot that we need to be producing food

in order that prices don't rise to quickly. That is one thing I will

be looking into as far as page is concerned. Wales also exports a lot

of food, and one thing counting against that at the moment is that

the various trade barriers are in place which prevent food being

exported, for instance, to America. Good work is being done on that.

And even to China, which would be a real coup for us in terms of

getting quality Welsh products into these markets. Now exports to the

States? Not at the moment, but this barrier is in place and it is one

thing I have talked to the American agricultural attache about. I will

raise this issue in debate today, and I hope the minister will

respond to it. But the levels of subsidy to farming are

unsustainable, aren't they? thing which the current Government

are trying to argue for is that they need to be more affordable. It

is still the case that over 40% of the EU total budget goes into farm

payments in one for all -- form or another. But that has come down

from 40% to about 22% over the last couple of decades. Farmers rely on

address, and we have encouraged farmers to diversify, to get other

parts of the business. That is all very good, but the truth of the

matter is the taxpayer wants to seek more bang for their buck from

what is coming out of farming, and if that means the way that our

landscape is looked after, the way our biodiversity is enhanced, as

well as food security and affordable food on our shelves, we

are asking farmers to do a lot. But I think that is a lot because there

is a lot of money going into farming as well. Do we need to cap

the cap? Well, I think you will see over a long period of Tom the

reduction in subsidies that farmers receive, and that is inevitable. We

must ensure that farmers are in a position to market their produce

properly. The grocery adjudicator of so. Then the farming community

will be able to stand on their own two feet and depend upon subsidies

less in the future. In the long term, it has to be reduced and made

more affordable. But we must make sure at the same time we don't

drive farmers out of business and jeopardise our food security, and

jeopardise the landscape we love. These things are intertwined so

intimately that we have to be very careful. But yes, farming has to be

more competitive in the UK because we have great opportunities with

international export as well. It is a big ask, but I know that Alan

Davies in the Welsh Assembly will be met -- working hard to make it

work for Welsh farmers. Bentley before joining us.

Well, we will have a quick chat with our guests before we leave you

today. Julie Morgan spoke earlier about her debate this afternoon on

dangerous dogs. You're going to contribute to that debate, aren't

you? Yes, I will support the chipping of dogs. You have owners

who create dangerous Dogs by not looking after them properly, not

training them properly, and letting them run wild. I still have a

bruise on my hip from the last time I was chased in a garden by a dog.

There were too nice small dogs coming towards me... That was the

end of them, surely? I had to get out quickly! Bad then, the dangers

of campaigning. -- Bethan Jenkins. Have you sustained any campaigning

injuries? I have not broken anything, but I never wear my iPod

when delivering leaflets because you can't hear dogs. You have got

to be careful. Avid viewers noticed David Miliband was striking a dog

on the campaign trail earlier. Mike was concerned that the dog did not

bite him, and David Miliband did ask if the dog was a Labour dog and

he said that it was. On the serious point of Chipping animals, do you

support what Julie Morgan is suggesting today? Yes, I do support

what she has suggested. It is important that we have that in

place. It is about owners as well, but it is about the type of breeds

that are taken into Wales. We need to look at that element as well as

the owner influence on how dogs behave. I can't disagree with that.

It is the owners - you can have nice box of almost any breed if

they have been brought up properly. A bit like children. Thank you for

your time today. But is it for today. The assembly is in recess