09/11/2011 am.pm

Good morning and welcome to am.pm. In the words of the Presiding

Officer Rosemary Butler, here we go again. We've got a busy programme.

We'll be at Prime Minister's Questions as the Home Secretary

faces more questions about her part in the relaxing of some passport

checks. We'll hear the First Minister's

response to criticism over the way the Welsh Government is trying to

boost the economic recovery. And with Armistice Day almost upon

us, I will be asking what the Welsh government is doing to help on

I'm joined throughout the programme by two Assembly members. Plaid

Cymru's Alun Ffred Jones and the Aled Roberts for the Welsh Liberal

Democrats. Good morning to you both. We'll chat in a moment. Before we

do, yesterday's First Minister's Questions got people talking after

the Plaid Cymru leader Ieuan Wyn Jones attacked the First Minister's

record on the economy. Carwyn Jones' former coalition partner

accused him of waiting for the economic crisis to do its worst,

Let me remind you, since May, we have not had a single piece of

legislation to deal within this chamber. We have had a programme

for government that contains no targets and we have had no action

on the economy. The only conclusion I can now draw from your failure to

ask -- to act is that you have decided to let the economic crisis

do its worst and blame the Tories for everything that is responsible.

First Minister, did you think our young people deserve better than

that? The ground has changed now.

Originally it was suggested we haven't announced any capital

projects and it has been accepted the projects have been announced.

We have done as much as we can to protect the people of Wales. I take

no lessons from the party opposite. If they had a wealth of ideas, I

would look at them but they did not have them in the manifesto. The

Labour Party was accused of producing the longest suicide note

in the election and plot can be produced the shortest.

What did you think of that exchange? Ieuan Wyn Jones, perhaps

his strongest attack on the Government since your party has

been back in opposition? Why? Because of the lackadaisical

approach this Government is taking to mostly everything. If you ask

most AMs, they will say that most Tuesday afternoons and Wednesday

after near us, by now, have become pretty inactive. We are dealing

with a crisis. It is an international crisis, I grant you

that. It is not the fault of the present Labour government that we

are in this mess. You are not blaming the

Conservatives, are you? Yes, I am. I think their approach

is wrong. The fact is the Government in Wales should be doing

far more proactive work and the list of projects that have been

announced, as Ieuan Wyn Jones said, were announced in March by the One

Wales government and since then... You are claiming credit for that?

The present Government doesn't seem to be trip pro actively doing

anything to try and address the situation, especially when you

think about unemployment amongst young people, which is reaching

critical levels. I'm not trying to sake they are to blame. The

question is, what can we do? One of the things we can do is to try and

bring forward capital projects that will in turn provide work for Welsh

companies and in turn provide some opportunities for people to gain

employment and training. This is quite logical and common sense. If

you look at the whole front report, this is what they have been saying.

The present Labour Government seems to be very reluctant to use it. One

of the reasons could be too late the blame on the Government in

London. We will hear from Carwyn Jones

later. He has been speaking at the summit this morning.

Aled Roberts, your party is in government at UK level. It comes in

with some stick. What do you think of Ieuan Wyn Jones's

interpretation? I think I would agree with Alun

Ffred Jones. There is a frustration amongst Assembly Members regarding

the lack of activity by the Assembly Government. The people of

Wales are saying, six months in, it is not good enough. The Welsh

government is responsible for economic development in Wales and

yet we are seeing little or no evidence of activity. Furthermore,

perhaps some of the announcements made by previous government with

regard to the economic renewal policy, there appears to be

complete lack of action as far as that is concerned. It is

frustration. The feeling, as Alun Ffred Jones said, for us as

Assembly Members, is that we are spending lots of time attending

sessions with little or no programme as far as the Government

is concerned. We need joined-up thinking between

the departments. There is delaying going on and others are saying, we

are looking at the project. Where is the unified action?

One of your parties, the Conservatives, are possibly going

to have to support the Government to get their programme through. The

relationship between your party leader and the First Minister is

quite combative at the moment. Do you think Plaid come recant support

this Budget? There are ongoing discussions. The

Labour Party are poor at opening up and probably discussing. They feel

that if they can put eight pet project on, but they will put it in.

You had a price a few years ago. We need more discussion before we

come to an agreement. Very briefly, Aled Roberts, can you

see your party supporting the Government on this Budget?

There needs to be a different of mood as far as the Government is

concerned. They are very much approaching the whole Budget

situation as though they had a majority within the Assembly. The

reality is they need to discuss the draft Budget. There has been little

discussion beforehand. It is a Labour Budget. They need to be

serious about the discussions but they are ongoing and all opposition

parties are holding meetings. Thank you for now. We will be back

with you later. Good morning. Let us go through

what is happening this afternoon. Questions to ministers. Today it is

the turn of the health minister, Lesley Griffiths, and Carl Sargeant.

Moving on to the debates. The Conservatives are very much pushing

issues around the armed forces today, appropriately, with

Armistice Day around the corner. They are asking the Government to

do a few things. They want to see the anniversary of the First World

War recognise formally when it rolls down in 2014. They are noting

that some 40,000 Welsh servicemen lost their lives in that conflict

and they feel it would be appropriate to mark that sacrifice.

They would like to see more done for more recent servicemen and

women, particularly those who suffer with fever rather it -- the

variety of conditions associated with post-traumatic stress disorder.

The difficulties people have won the return to civilian life with

the horrible things they have seen in their careers. They would also

like to see every person in the armed forces, either at the moment

or be former serviceman or woman, issued with a card to access

services more efficiently. Moving on from that, there is a second

Conservative debate on the rural economy. They would like to see red

tape cut to enable small businesses and others to flourish and young

people to stay in the communities they have grown up in, if they wish

to do so. Plaid Cymru have a debate, as you have already discussed, with

Alun Ffred Jones, about what they are calling the economic crisis and

what they see as the Government's inactivity or failure to react

effectively to that crisis. They are claiming a lot more needs to be

done in the chamber this afternoon. Moving on to the short debate, a

very interesting one today from Plaid Cymru's Leanne Wood. She is

looking at the issue of food banks. These are stores of food built up

by volunteers in communities to help people who simply can't afford

to eat. That might seem almost unbelievable in the 21st century in

a country with the welfare state but apparently more and more people

can't afford to do best. Lots of communities are taking it upon

themselves to help out. Leanne Wood is raising the issue this afternoon

and I spoke to her about it yesterday. You will hear about that

later on. Thank you.

You can get more information about what's happening in the National

Assembly on BBC Wales's Democracy Live online coverage. The address

is on screen. We've dealt with the Assembly - now

let's find out what's happening at Westminster today with our

correspondent, Tomos Livingstone. The pressure is mounting on the

Home Secretary to explain her decision to relax some border

checks. The UK border force chief, Brodie Clark, resigned yesterday.

What about Theresa May? I think you're missing those Liam

Fox punt. It will be clearer by the end of the day., this has to do

with the queues at airports when they come into the country.

Passport checks word suspended at busy times to allow those queues to

clear. The Home Office admits it doesn't know whether any criminals

or terrorist sups it -- suspects came into the country. The

government says this is the fault of Brodie Clark, an official. He

has been suspended. He has delivered a finger pointing of his

own, saying there was pressure from ministers to reduce queues at busy

times. He has resigned. He will sue the Home Office for constructive

dismissal. At the technical end, a lot of this has to do with whether

someone as Mr Clarke as a civil servant had written in a level of

discretion, the authority to make these sort of decisions and whether

the rules should be relaxed. At the political level, this is quite a

dangerous time for Theresa May and David Cameron. They have just lost

Liam Fox, the Defence Secretary. It should come up at Prime Minister's

questions later on. They will be looking for any change of tone from

David Cameron, whether he will deviate from the usual line of

argument that Theresa May has his full support. There will be a

Labour debate on border controls after that. Even if the government

goes through Prime Minister's questions unscathed, the pressure

will mount during the day at Westminster.

Talking of Prime Minister's questions, the economy is bound to

dominate again. The latest growth predictions from the CBI have been

downgraded. That is right. The employers'

organisation was predicting the UK economy would grow at 1.3 % and has

changed his mind and has downgraded that forecast to anything between

0.9 % and 1.2 %. That would be pretty bad news for the Government

but the silver lining in the CBI statement is firstly that most

other organisations have already downgraded their forecasts.

Secondly, the CBI has said it believes the government cuts

programme is vital that it carries on to free the economy up to grow

in the future. A bit of bad news for George Osborne, the Chancellor,

in that he is dependent on the economy growing strongly of the

next year and the following years. Just to bring in this tax revenues

so he can reduce the Budget deficit. One thing Mr Osborne would be

giving his encouraging buying Italian government bonds. The

situation in Italy getting worse by the day. The charges to service its

debt are going up. Silvio Berlusconi has said he will stand

down. It looks as though of the needs to be some sort of bail-out

for the Italian government. The problem is the size of the you

bail-out, which was agreed last week in Cannes, is too small. Some

difficult questions for David Cameron as to where he stands on

the need to bail out an economy the size of Italy. I wonder whether one

or two mischievous Euro-sceptic MPs will raise those issues with David

Cameron later. We will see you later for Prime

Minister's questions. Now I ask you every week and not

everyone takes me up on the offer, but why don't you get in touch with

us. You can tweet us. Send a message to @walespolitics, or you

can write to us using a pen and paper. The address is BBC Wales,

Llandaff, Cardiff, CF5 2YQ. The MP for Rhondda, Chris Bryant,

has got a very busy day today. Not only is he a key part of Labour's

team in dealing with the on going row over the Border Agency, he's

also got a short debate on the arts. He's been speaking to our reporter,

Bethan James. Protecting Britain's borders is

what is occupying the minds of MPs today and there is mounting

pressure on the Home Secretary. Chris Bryant, we have heard that

the head of the UK borders Agency has resigned. Do you think that the

Home Secretary can survive? I think it is too early to tell.

There are lots of questions for the Home Secretary. Why was she

experimenting with border controls a year before the Olympics, for

instance, which is going to be the biggest security challenge this

country is having to beat. What did she side of? That is why we have to

publish the document that went across her desk over this so we can

judge for ourselves rather than listen to her version of events and

we can judge for ourselves what she signed off. It would be good to

know what happened because there are stories that in some places

people presented passports that would even checked, they weren't

even swiped so you can check whether somebody is a criminal on

the Interpol list. If that is the case, we were waving people through.

Theresa May has said she had no knowledge of the fact that the

relaxing of the rules had extended beyond EU nationals, and this was a

decision taken by the UK borders It is no better to say she only

intended it to happen for EU nationals, because actually, it is

EU passports that are often the most forged because they are the

most valuable. It was a mistake in policy in the first place. As far

as I can see, Theresa May's defence is that she was clueless. So she is

not much good as they Home Secretary. This was rolled out at

the start of the summer months to relax the rules, -- ball doubt.

This did not get put before Parliament? There is a con here.

She is saying it is a pilot, but normally, a pilot you just conduct

in once called for a limited amount of time -- it once called. It is

not a pilot, it is so a change of policy. So do think there will be

more questions for her to answer today? She has got to publish all

the paperwork that came across her desk. It is very disturbing that

she is still refusing to publish it because I think there's something

you know she doesn't want us to see. You also have another debate here

in parliament today. Tell us about that. Yes, I have got to run from

the chamber to Westminster Hall to do a speech about support for

artists. I believe that art is part of the lifeblood of the nation. It

is really important that in our schools and in the whole of society

we provide strong support for artists. There are quite a few

famous Welsh artists. I want see the support applied to the estates

of deceased artists, because quite often they are the people who

protect the memory of those artists. That would be good for society.

Disturbingly, the average artist in Britain at the moment fence �10,000.

That is when the average wage in Britain is �3,000 -- earns �10,000.

The think there's a possibility for a career in that order world -- do

you think? Many are having to do lots of other jobs as well. I know

people say that is the nature of being an artist, but actually, if

you go to some of the great exhibitions, see some other great

works of art, they can completely transform your own understanding of

your life and the world your living. Also, if you don't have artists

functioning full time, you don't have people come into schools to

enable young people's attention as well. We need to do more to support

the British artists, in particular a lot of them in Wales. What can

politicians do? We can change the law on the 1st January 1920 12 to

make sure that the right that we introduced into thousands -- to

govern a six that means that if you sell a painting by in living artist,

the artist gets a share of that, but that would not just apply to a

living artist but also the estates of deceased artists. Also, we need

to do more to support individual artists and tackle the problem of

internships, a way young people who stopped working in a gallery have

to work for free. I think the national minimum wage should apply

to them. We can talk about the Border Agency row later but I'll

have a quick word with my guests about the current state of play

with the arts in Wales. Does what Chris Bryant said have any

residents with you? -- resonance? think many of our problems in terms

of education and so on our cultural. As Michael Higgins has made it

clear, he sees art fundamental to the health of the nation and I

concur with that. Art is normally the first Budget they get hit, we

are not hearing much about it this time because there are cuts to

education, but art is normally the poor relation, isn't it? Yes, the

reality is that certainly the Welsh governments will have given

commitments to protect social services and education in

particular. More often than not -- than not it is culture and the arts

that take a hit. It is a difficult issue in the current climate. It

was also quite telling that Chris Bryant was talking about measures

that we introduced in 2006 but were never implemented by Labour. There

is a case of opposition politics coming to the fore. Never! Cuts

were applied but it wasn't as bad as it was in England. We talk about

the arts as may be something we should give money to to keep it

going, but what can be up stiffer economy? There is media that is

tied into the art, there's a debate in the course of this week talking

about whether there was need for one of the enterprise zones to

actually take it back to the 4th. The culture is not just about

enjoyment. -- back to the fore. There is an animation School that

we were talking about, having started industries, there are

possibilities in the wide scope of things. Obviously, it is not

involving the numbers of people that other industries are.

In Amsterdam, the culture of that city is one big Ferenc -- one big

thing that drives its tourism industry. The arts and culture, it

is at the heart of many of a successful cities. I would say the

same about Wales. It is fundamental to the basic Helford the nation to

have a thriving arts community -- basic help of the nation.

If you look at most European countries they did spend more on

the arts than we have ever done anyway.

Still to come, we will go live to the House of Commons for Prime

Minister's Questions. There has been a sharp increase in the number

of families turning to family hands out -- to handouts. A I'm joined by

Leanne Wood to talk about food banks. Let's talk about the basics.

What is the food bank? They provide three days' worth of

non-perishable food to those who don't have the money to pay for

their own food. We have 15 food banks throughout Wales now and

demand is growing very quickly. The charity concerned with the food

banks is hoping to expand their networks are the provision can be

made of lead -- available to people wherever they are in Wales. So, in

2011, we have got people who cannot afford to read? Yes, it is similar

to the situation back in the 1930s during the Great Depression when

people came together to form up soup kitchens for those who were

unable to afford food. And here we are in 2011 with a very similar

situation. I feel very ambivalent about the fact that we need food

banks in this day and age. We should not be needing them, but the

reality is that demand is growing very fast and we do need them

urgently in some parts of Wales now. Some people won't understand why

when we do have a security system that wasn't there in the 1930s, it

will shock many people that many people are reliant on this and

you're expecting more? For many people, the benefits they have not

enough to live on. Some people have been removed from the benefits

system altogether. If people are paying out monthly debt charges,

then the mark that they have left can be very limited. I have had

some harrowing stories, of their mother for example, who was eating

paper towels to avoid the pain in her stomach because she could not

afford to read. I know from my inexperience how great for people

are when they are able to provide a meal for their family -- great for.

-- grateful. We need to make sure that there is this basic level of

provision. Given that the demand is so great, we should do everything

we can to make sure that people do get food which is a basic of life.

You're speaking on Wednesday in the Senedd. What you want to see

achieved? This has come from voluntary contributions, are you

looking for the Assembly government to actually make investment in it

as well? If there is any merit that the government can put towards the

food bank network and that would be very gratefully received. It relies

on volunteers and donations from the public, or fruit from the

supermarket. -- booed. -- food. I heard of a man who walked a long

journey because he could not afford to collect his food parcel bypass.

There are other ways around that perhaps government could provide

some support with. And are these food banks distributed across Wales

or scented in particular areas at the moment with luck they are not

right Iraq Wales. The contribution seems to be in the valleys area.

But the charities that are organising a want it throughout

Wales now. And presumably there will be ever more need for this in

the months and years to come? Reports are suggesting that

unemployment has not peaked in Wales yet. Yes, we had heard that

the problem is going to get an awful lot worse and the demand will

further increase. We need to make sure that the network is available

and they can make the demand that is put their way. Thank you very

much. We have had plenty about the border

row this morning, that is bound to dominate in Westminster? Yes, we

need to clarification. My understanding is that there was a

pilot scheme that was authorised by the Home Office that the attack

more intelligence up to yesterday. The implication was that the PA had

gone further than that and -- but that they had gone further than

that. Certainly, the Labour government didn't get it right. We

need a fair system. We also need a bed debate because if you go across

Europe now, there are no border controls. I went to Italy in the

summer, passing two countries. The reality is that the most effective

targeting as far as international terrorism is involved is led by

intelligence. But clearly there is clarification needed on the whole

issue. You were saying about if you come off the ferry... If you want

to come to Britain without being challenged, go to Ireland and then

walkover on the ferry. But it is payback time in terms of politics.

It is a bit of a storm in a teacup as far as I'm concerned. It could

cost Theresa May a job, however? Lot of questions about possible

plans for an independence referendum.

What is he going to say about the young people?

What the right honourable lady knows is that unemployment on the

part of the Labour government rose as well.

There is Theresa May, the Home Secretary, taking her place.

We should all work together to resolve youth unemployment.

Questions to the Prime Minister. Number one, please.

I'm sure the whole House would wish to join me in paying tribute to

private Matthew from the second Battalion at the mercy and Regiment,

despite only being in the army for a short time, he had proved himself

to be a dedicated and courageous soldier. He has made the ultimate

sacrifice and we should send our deepest condolences to his family

and friends. This week we will pause to consider all those who

have lost their lives in defence of our country so we can enjoy peace

and freedom and we are humbled by the sacrifice they have made. This

morning I had meetings with ministerial colleagues and I shall

have further such meetings later today.

May I add my tribute to the sows death of the soldier, especially

with remembrance Sword -- Remembrance Sunday so near. The

Prime Minister is rightly concerned about jobs and growth. Consumer

confidence is key to that. Telling 25 million workers they have no job

security, will that boost or reduce consumer confidence?

Clearly, what we have to do is make it easier for firms to hire people.

That is why we have scrapped Labour's jobs tax, that is what we

have taken one million of the lowest paid people out of tax and

established new rules so you can only go to a tribunal after working

somewhere for two years and we have introduced fees to stop vexatious

claims. Added to that, we are investing in the work programme,

and apprenticeships, all to help young people get jobs.

Mr Speaker, can I join the Prime Minister in paying tribute to

private Matthew has Alden from the second Battalion. He showed immense

courage trying to protect local people and our thoughts are with

his family and friends. With troops serving in conflict overseas, it is

even more important that we are on this weekend on Remembrance Sunday,

all of those who have served our country and are serving our country

today. Mr Speaker, can the Prime Minister tell us how many people

entered the UK and to the Home Secretary's relaxed border

controls? -- under the Home Secretary?

The number of people who entered the country, the figures are

published in the normal way. The number of people arrested was

actually up by 10 % and the number of drug seizures was markedly up,

and the number of firearms Segers was up by a 100 %. -- seizures.

First, the Home Secretary did be greet a pilot for a more targeted

approach to border control. This was for people within the European

economic Area. It allowed better targeting of high risk people and

best for children. This did not compromise security. I fully backed

this and I think she was right to take this action. Second, and this

is important, decisions were taken to extend this beyond the European

economic Area nationals. This was not authorised by the Home

Secretary. Went specific commission was asked for, it was not granted.

This did not mean our borders were left undefended. Passports

continued to be checked. As this was unauthorised action, as it was

contrary to what the Home Secretary agreed, it is right that the head

of the border force was suspended and I back that action completely.

Mr Speaker, it is just not good enough. The Prime Minister cannot

tell us how many people, how many millions of people, were let in

under the relaxed border controls agreed by the Home Secretary. Mr

Speaker, isn't it totally unacceptable that the Home

Secretary chose to relax border controls in July and even yesterday

she could not tell us which airports and ports it applied to,

how many took it up and for how long.

She provided those figures it and the number of arrests are as

follows: Firearms, 100 % increase in seizures. 10 % increase in

arrest of illegal immigrants. The simple fact that the Right

Honourable gentleman has to except and I think everyone has to accept

is this, the head of the UK Border Agency, Rob Whiteman, who also

didn't know that this unauthorised action was taking place, he said

this, and I think it is very important for the House to

understand. The head of the border agency said this: Brodie Clark

admitted to me that on 2nd November, that on a number of occasions this

year, he authorised his staff to go further than a ministerial action.

I therefore suspended him from his duties. In my opinion, it was right

for officials to have recommended the pilot so we focused attention

on higher risk to al border. It is an acceptable that one of my senior

officials went further than was approved. That is why he was

suspended and the Home Secretary backed that decision. It is an

important issue to understand that Brodie Clark was suspended by the

head of the UK Border Agency. It was a decision taken by him, backed

by the Home Secretary and me. Isn't it utterly typical, Mr

Speaker? When things go wrong, it Order. Just before the right

honourable Dudman continues, let me just emphasise there are members on

both sides shouting their heads off. Members of the youth parliament

last Friday... Order! Who spoke brilliantly and passionately

disagreed with each other but didn't shout at each other. Mr Ed

Miliband. Mr Speaker, and what did the Home

Secretary say in the past when she was in opposition when things went

wrong with immigration? She said I am sick and tired of Government

ministers who simply blame other people when things go wrong. The

Prime Minister said yesterday in his evidence to the liaison

committee about the relaxation of border controls in the last few

months, and I quote, clearly, it is not acceptable it went on for so

long. Mr Speaker, why did the Home Secretary allow it to happen?

People blame me for not taking responsibility but then quote very

clearly my words taking responsibility and say what isn't

acceptable. Having a lecture in responsibility from a car -- from a

party that troubled immigration, met an extra 2.2 million people

into our country, that allowed everyone from the eastern Europe to

come here with no transitional controls, that built up a backlog

of half a million asylum claims and made no apology about it, and even

today, when the Leader of the opposition is asked whether too

many people were led into the country, he simply said no.

He has been the prime minister for 18 months. He can't keep saying, it

is nothing to do with him. It is his responsibility. A month ago,

the Prime Minister gave a speech on border controls called reclaiming

our borders. His Home Secretary at the time was busy relaxing our

borders. Doesn't the Prime Minister think he should at least have no?

The pilot the Home Secretary introduced meant more arrests, more

firearms seized, war forged documents found. That is the truth

of it. Officials went further than Home Office ministers authorised.

That is what is wrong and that is where someone had to be suspended.

It was the right decision. He asked what we have done. We are competing

e borders so every flight would be checked outside the EU. We are

creating the National borders agency. We seized more drugs than

in the whole of last year. Last year we rejected 400,000

applications for visas, we turned away 68,000 people without the

correct documents. I am determined we have tough border controls and

finally we have a Home Office and immigration officer that want to

cut immigration. Anyone listening to the prime

minister would have thought it had been a great success but it is a

complete fiasco. Cuts to the UK border force. Can he confirm how

many UK border staff are going to be cut under his Government?

By the end of this Parliament, there will be 18,000 people working

for the UK Border Agency, the same number as were walking -- working

for them when he was sitting in the Treasury. He asked about what we

have done in 18 months of office on immigration. Let me tell him. The

first ever limit on work visas outside the European Union. We have

stopped more than 470 colleges from bringing in bogus foreign students,

we have cut student visas by 70,000. Anyone who comes here to get

married has to speak English. We are ending automatic settling

rights and stopping people misusing the Human Rights Act. We have done

more in 18 months than he did in 13 years.

The truth is it is a fiasco and he knows it. That is the reality. Mr

Speaker, that is the pattern with the Government. Broken promises,

growth incompetence, -- gross incompetence. He is leading a

shambolic government. As ever, he completely lost his way.

I think he should spend a little more time listening to the author

of blue Labour, Lord Glassman. He said this, Labour lied about the

extent of immigration. Where is the apology?

On Friday, 3 Commando Brigade will be marching through the streets of

per enough on their homecoming parade after a successful but

costly tour of duty in Afghanistan. I know the Prime Minister will be

with us in spirit but would he like to send a message to support to

these brave and professional Royal Marines of whom we are very proud?

I will join my honourable friend in doing that. The whole of the south-

west and the country is incredibly proud of the remains. -- marines. I

said my best wishes for the homecoming parade and we should put

on record what they have achieved in Helmand province. They carried

out 37,000 before it -- patrols. The trade over 1,300 Afghan

uniformed police patrolman. They have made a difference to the

safety of that country and our country.

Does the Prime Minister think it is right and defensible that the Royal

Bank of Scotland, which received massive bail-out steering the

crisis, should now take -- payable than �500,000 out in bonuses this

year? I don't think it is acceptable but

it hasn't yet set its figures for bonus payments. The British

Government is a large shareholder in the Royal Bank of Scotland.

In joining me in giving our condolences to the relatives of the

Red Arrows pilot killed at RAF Scampton less today, will the Prime

Minister acknowledged the over riding need for safety and our

campaign to save RAF Scampton from closure is not just based on

sentiment but on the overriding need for the kind of save,

uncluttered skies above North Lincolnshire which the Red Arrows

need to practise safely? I'm sure the hearts of everyone in

the house goes out to the family of the pilot who was killed in this

terrible accident. It goes on top of a second accident which happened

in the Red Arrows. A tragic time for something the whole country

Viviers and loves. Ligature is extremely important and we need to

get to the bottom of this accident. The trade unions yesterday

published a has seen at the largest growth in an improvement in the

country in my constituency. Can he tell me why he is letting young

people down in my constituency? Obviously, we face the difficult

situation with unemployment amongst young people right across the

country and we need to do everything we can to help people

back into work. That is why there is record investment going into

apprenticeships and the work programme. The real need is to grow

the private sector because it is a time that whoever was in Government

would be having to make reductions. He shakes his head but look across

the Europe at the reductions that Providing local the broader skills

to take on these jobs, will the Prime Minister insure that the

government does all it can to bond the completion of the newly opened

High School in Lowestoft which will have such an important role. This

here, Suffolk has an extra �33 million in capital funds. It has

upped the authority to decide how to fund this money. -- it is up to

the authority. Money is therefore important school project. We should

pause to remember paying tribute to our war dead. At Senedd House

across the nation we will pay homage to those who have made the

Supreme sacrifice over the years. With the Prime Minister agree that

whether it is in shops, schools, churches all on football pitches,

it should not just be allowed to display the poppy but positively

promoted to? I think it is it a remarkable achievement of the Royal

British Legion that we have actually, over the past year's

cover reintroduced the sense of the silence taking place. I think it is

absolutely right. It is particularly appropriate in

Northern Ireland where so many people have served so bravely in

armed forces. To reduce the costs loaded on to the economy, will the

Prime Minister encourage health authorities across the whole

country to take part and care for the family's, where volunteer

parents offer support to new parents, when half of all break-ups

occur? My honourable friend has a great record in pushing forward

this vital idea. It is a tragic fact that so many couple's break-up

after the arrival of the first child because of the stresses and

strains it can bring. We spend a huge amount of time as a country

dealing with the problems, and we should spend more on trying to keep

families together. On Friday, the UN Security Council will consider

the democratically conveyed Palestinian request for full

membership of the United Nations. Might the international community

and not do more to advance to a solution by try to create a to

state process? -- a two state. are making a full statement to the

House about this issue and a few moments. The British government is

fully behind a two state solution, but I believe that the we get this

is not by a declaration so -- declarations at the UN, Israel and

Palestine need to sit down. The winter fuel payment provides

valuable help for millions of people in paying for fuel bills.

Individuals are free to do it -- to donate. I would like to

congratulate Peter Whyman of having a brilliant idea where people can

donate some or all to those who need it most. With the government

considered an option sent to a all the over-sixties on a letter to

allow their donation to go to the winter appear automatically?

think it is very important that we first of will keep the promises

that we made to Britain's pensioners about keeping up these

cold weather payments. I would not want to see any pressure

unnecessarily put on people to do something that might not be in

their own best interest. operational instructions from the

UK Border Agency on 28th July says, we will cease opening the chips

were down EA passport... Did anyone in the Home Office clear that

document, and given the club -- conflicting stories between the

Home Secretary's officials and her own version, where he published all

the ministerial instructions? -- will you publish? The Prime

Minister is trying desperately to make up the party ground he lost!

The point I would make to him it is that there is going to be an

inquiry carried out by the Independent chief Inspector of the

border agency. The very person who found out what was going wrong in

terms of operations undertaking that did not have the permission,

and all these issues will be aired. On Christmas Day 1914, British and

German troops put down their weapons and played a football match

in no-man's-land. The following day, the bloody hostility was resumed,

and we today whether poppy in remembrance of our war dead. Will

the Prime Minister join me in condemning the outrageous decision

by Fifa to refuse the home nations their request to wear a poppy as a

simple mark of respect this weekend? The honourable lady not

only speaks for the whole house but for the whole country in being

completely baffled and angry by the decision made by Fifa. If teams

want to be able to put the poppy on their shirt, as many teams do in

our Football League, they should be able to do as -- at the national

level. I think this is an appalling decision and I hope they will

reconsider. The Prime Minister is removing the requirement for people

to register to vote in Britain, thereby removing millions of

people's right to vote. Is he not taking their money with one hand

and taking their votes with another, and is thus not biggest --

grotesque distortion of democracy to force austerity measures on the

most vulnerable, while removing their voting power? The point I

would make to the Honourable Gentleman is that we are actually

introducing individual voter registration, which is a Labour

policy. You should be welcoming. His constituency has only got

62,000 people a, it is a basic actor of fairness to have seats at

the same size. It is time we introduced it. Is the Prime

Minister aware that there is growing evidence about increased

abuse, intimidation, harassment on Park home side's across the

country? Tackling these problems needs a political well, not a large

sum of money. Will the Prime Minister give urgency to addressing

these issues so that people get the protection they need and deserve a

soon as possible? The UN borrowed EU raises an important point. --

the honourable lady raises. There are some extremely good pop home

owners who demonstrate responsibility and compassion, but

frankly, some who don't. We are looking to provide a better deal

for pop home residents increasing their protection. -- park home.

is even more important now that our politics is in touch with the

people we represent. With the Prime Minister therefore welcome the

first successful people on this because parliamentary played --

placement scheme? They are inspiring people who would not

normally get the chance to take part in politics. With the Prime

Minister agreed to meet them -- it would be Prime Minister agree?

has made a huge amount an impact on this issue of social mobility and

wanting to welcome people they have not had good chances in life. If

there is time in my busy diary, I shall certainly do as she says. I

do think there is an important opportunity for everyone in this

house to look at organisations like the social mobility foundation that

provide opportunities for interns from inner-city schools to come and

work here in parliament. I think the scheme is excellent, to give

people a really good chance to see what we do in this place, not just

on Wednesday at 12pm, but more broadly. Does my right honourable

friend think is right for honourable members take instruction

from the GMB about how to vote on amendments? I think the Honourable

Lady Rose is a serious issue. -- raises. I can sense resistance,

which is not surprising when 80 % of their money comes from the trade

unions, but when we discuss legislation in this country, it

should be bringing our arguments and not just picking it up from a

trade union. In my constituency, there are over 3,000 people

claiming jobseeker's allowance, but the latest figures show there were

only 300 job vacancies available. Jobs are being lost in the public

and private -- private sector. How Hyde as unemployment have to go

before the Prime Minister accepts that his economic policies simply

are not working? Unemployment is to hide today. I want to see it come

down from its already high levels. What we have to do to make that

happen is to put resources into the Apprentice Scheme, to put resources

into the work programme, to make sure we do all the things that help

businesses to employ people. That is what this government is doing.

They are cutting corporation tax, doing everything we can. Italian

bond yields have jumped to an unsustainable 8.1 %. Could the

Prime Minister police say what eurozone leaders must now do to

stop the contagion? I do think one Honourable Friend makes an

important point. If you don't have credibility about your plans to

deal with your debts and deficits, whether you like the markets will

not, they will not lend you any money. That is what we're seeing in

countries like Greece and now in Italy, where the price of borrowing

money is getting to and punters -- unsustainable level. It is a lesson

to all of us to have sustainable plans to get on top of large debt.

In terms of Europe, the problem of contagion is that as we degree

incisive write-down of debt, people inevitably start asking questions.

You need to have the biggest possible firewall. We need to put

figures on that firewater stop this contagion going any further. Today,

it now stands at 34 %, which is frankly shocking. In light of this,

does he still believe that the decision to scrap the future jobs

fund was the right one? Let me make the point that under Labour, youth

unemployment went up. On the issue of the future jobs fund, the

evidence we received one coming of the government was that the future

jobs fund was three or four times more expensive than other job

creation schemes, and indeed, in many parts of the country,

including the West Midlands, the percentage of gods threw the future

jobs front in the private sector was as low as two or three %. It

was right to scrap the future job fund a but in its place

apprenticeships, the work programme and work experience which will make

a difference to young people. is the failure of politics. The

people who go to war are not politicians, they are brave, serve

as people -- service people. Could my Honourable Friend right to be

fair to point out that the poppy is a symbol which says we respect the

sacrifice that people have made on behalf of their country's? I will

certainly do as My Honourable Friend says. It is not just an

issue of writing to be fair, it is also asking its membership bodies

to take a very strong line about this. This is not an issue of left

or right, we all wear a poppy with pride. We all do it, even if we

don't approve of the wars that people were fighting in. We do it

to one of the fact that these people sacrificed their lives for

cars. It is vital for Fifa to understand that and a clear message

Building on the last answer the Prime Minister gave, given the fact

that Italy is down an incredible fiscal path, in the words of the

Prime Minister, can he assist the group of finance ministers to meet

to help create a European stability pact?

The Honourable Gentleman makes an important point. The first

responsibility for building this bail-out fund has got to be with

the euro-zone members. The problem at the G20, as we discussed on

Monday, is you can't ask the G20 and the IMF to do things that the

euro-zone members aren't prepared to do. We stand ready to boost the

IMF. They want to help countries in distress. We don't produce the our

trading partners collapse. -- want to see. Countries falling out of

the euro could be painful for an hour economy but it is for the

euro-zone countries to sort out the problem.

Referring to a firewall in relation to these bail-outs, what we really

need is structural renegotiation of the treaties, given the impact it

is having on the United Kingdom, and to use a cricketing analogy, he

would not be sent in with a broken- backed, he will be sent in with a

new bat. This is a reference to 1990.

There is a long history in my party of cricketing metaphors and Europe,

ending and happily. I think I won't follow him down that path. What I

would say is that we will defend the national interest. When there

was a treaty change in the European council, we got something back for

Britain, which was to get out of the EU bail-out fund. If there are

future treaty changes, which are some European countries are pushing

for, we will make sure we protect our national interest.

I remind the House that this is others to stay on for it -- on

Friday. The problems in the euro-zone

dominating the session. Plenty to discuss on the sofa.

Firstly, we will award the crystal ball award to Alun Ffred Jones for

four saying that the business of the Border Agency would become a

political ding-dong. Who came off better?

The Prime Minister was very, very well briefed. He knew what he was

fighting for, Theresa May's life. It is not hurt future that he is

concerned about but the idea that if he loses another Cabinet

minister, he will look bad. He fought very hard and I think Ed

Miliband simply didn't hack it today.

I would agree. The Prime Minister was very well prepared. He was

factual and clearly in charge of his brief. As Alun Ffred Jones said,

he had to. Ed Miliband didn't really land any punches, which,

given how large the story is today, you perhaps would have expected him

to have been better prepared. In terms of the importance of

Theresa May in the cabinet, he has lost Liam Fox, which appealed to

the right of the party. Theresa May is one of only three women in the

cabinet. If she went, would there be an implication for him there?

He has to tackle this impression that the Government isn't in charge

of the agenda. It could give the impression that perhaps they are

not fully in control. That is more of an issue, perhaps, than gender.

Clearly, there is an issue regarding the impression the

cabinet gives of being for middle aged men in grey suits.

Talking of middle-aged men, we didn't see Nick Clegg there today.

Obviously on very important business.

There we are. The euro-zone question was inevitable as well.

There was a question to the Prime Minister as to why Britain wasn't

helping out. His answer was that the euro-zone should help itself.

Both of you were talking here about the Italian debt and what effect

that would have on Britain. If a big, big economy like the

Italian economy goes down the drain, the theory is that there is hell to

pay because where do you get that sort of back-up in funding? It can

only come from Germany because they are the only country who are in

good shape. In fact, it suits the Tories in Parliament to pretend

this has nothing to do with them. The truth is if Italy goes haywire

and spin starts to teeter, our banks will also be caught in the

storm. He has to play this carefully and he can't say, this

has nothing to do with me. Because they were the German and

the French banks that were exposed to the Greek crisis. It is

different now? Yes. It shows the contagion issue

and the fact they must be very worried. The French and Germans

were greatly exposed but as far as Greece is concerned, British banks

were into Italy and spin big style. The whole euro-zone issue is a big

one. We are dependent on exports to the euro-zone. It is a big worry

and it shows the fact that governments throughout Europe need

to work together. Certainly, there will be able for the IMF. Britain

is a major contributor. We are in it for up to 40 billion,

according to Danny Alexander? Yes, it is clear that Government

policy is not to commit to the Euro bail-out fund. There are other

economies in other parts of the world we have responsibilities

towards, developing countries where there are debt issues as well.

Where would you have stood when the debate was going on? Did you think

Britain should have joined? Theoretically, I think we should

have been in. The whole question was about the rates at which we

join. Dafydd Wigley was right. The pound was too high. In retrospect,

I still think, theoretically, it was a good idea. We are trading

with all these people commonly and at the time, businesses were also

keen to go in. Obviously, because of the huge discrepancies between a

powerful economy like Germany and people like Greece and Portugal at

the edges, it cannot hold it together. The future is very

unpredictable. I don't think anyone would disagree

with you. Coming upon the programme, we will be discussing organ

donations. At the start of the programme, we heard criticism over

the way the Welsh government is trying to boost the economic

recovery. Earlier this morning, the First Minister met representatives

from the private sector and trade unions to discuss how they can work

together to support the Welsh economy. He said an announcement of

spending �39 million to create jobs depended on getting an agreement

for the Budget. He told our correspondent where his priorities

lay. Jobs and skills. We cannot make

detailed announcements until we get agreement on the Budget but clearly,

we want to make sure that money is spent in the most effective way.

That means making sure people have the right skills in future and that

we spend money on projects in Wales that will create jobs.

The comments by Ieuan Wyn Jones, it is a pretty major fall-out

concerning the two will feel standing next to each other -- the

two of you. Has he got a point that there is a perception of inactivity

when it comes to responding to where we are now with the economy?

This is part of politics. It is a luxury of opposition to criticise

the Government when you are not putting forward ideas yourself. We

have made significant announcements. School modernisation in Carmarthen

sure is one of them. We are taking forward our Welsh jobs scheme where

people will get training opportunities in future. We have

delivered on the pledge of protecting education spending and

now we want to move forward capital announcements this month.

That was the First Minister, Carwyn Jones.

It's Armistice Day on Friday and earlier this morning, the First

Minister, Carwyn Jones, laid a wreath at the official opening of

the Welsh Field of Remembrance at Cardiff Castle. And in the Senedd

later today there's a debate on In the Senedd later today, there is

a debate. I am joined by eight a Conservative

minister who will be speaking in that debate. Marquee she would,

your party wants to raise a number of issues, could you wind -- could

you run through them briefly? The timing is very intentional. 97

years since the start of the First World War. We need to acknowledge

the sacrifice made by a at armed forces but also calling for the

Welsh government to announce what proposals it has to recognise a

century of the great for in three years' time. The UK Government has

pledged it will be making announcements. It will be fantastic

if the Welsh government could also announce it will be bringing ideas

forward. We'll also promoting the idea of an armed forces card. We

acknowledge the last government has picked up a number of proposals

from our manifesto and brought them forward in his programme of

government but there are still huge gaps. NHS priority treatment for

our forces but we also know that frequently, those very people, when

presenting for treatment, encounter doctors who do not know about that

priority treatment. The Royal British Legion survey found that 81

% of those who responded had encountered that very experience.

Ann Jones, is that a fair point? Are people falling through the

gaps? Yes. I think we have to look at

where we are coming from. Mark started by saying we need to

remember that ultimate sacrifice which many of our or Welsh

servicemen and women repaid. We'll go in a way to was doing that. On

the issue of post traumatic stress disorder, we are looking to find

debris in which we can assist veterans through that. I sat on the

last Health Committee when we look at this. There will always be

people who drop through the net and we need to make sure that net will

protect them and that is what the Welsh government is doing. We are

looking at ways in which we can help veterans to get back into

their communities. If they have a home, we are offering them a 50 %

diktat -- described in council tax. We are looking at child care for

their families so that those more seriously injured or disabled as a

result of what they have suffered on the battlefield will be a comedy

-- will be accommodated in their communities. It gives them an

opportunity to live as families. I really don't think the card is

necessary. I have long thought we carry too many cards and we need to

get the services right for those people. I'm sure that is what the

rut Government will do. The card in itself doesn't solve

anything but do you feel that would go some way towards enabling people

get what they are entitled to? You are saying people are not getting

the priority treatment they are entitled to?

Absolutely. We must speak with the people we are proposing to

represent because this is what they are telling me. In terms of general

access but also more complex post traumatic stress disorder. It

usually takes about 10-12 years to fully present after the events on

service that triggered it. It is becoming a growing issue because

the number of engagements and it is putting ever greater pressure not

only on services but on the growing population suffering from this

conditions. They are telling us the current provision for them is

woefully inadequate, that the NHS cannot meet their specialist

complex needs and the need residential treatment centres for

short-term says -- stays and respite. There are a number of

projects in Wales trying to deliver that, despite or because of Welsh

government intervention. We are calling on the government to

engage with this. I don't think a card would do that.

I have got cards but I can always to get them. If you appear at the

surgery, I think the thing is to make sure people are aware of what

we are trying to do for veterans but for the veterans to say they

are veterans. There is a problem with some veterans, especially

those that are getting older, they don't want to remember but they

want the services. You have to find a way communities will look after

By a different issue, I want to get your response to or the economic

crisis. Is it true that the government here in Wales just is

not doing its bit to respond to that? That is not true. We have

seen announcements of �1.3 million, some of those who already been

there in the business cases, but that is what we're doing. I do

think that the UK government's plan is not working and that we have a

detrimental effect on us. Prepping the Welsh government is keen to see

jobs coming forward and we have got jobs for young people and Welsh

Labour and now taking that background again. We will tackle

youth unemployment. Mark, one of the complaints is that not enough

is being done on the Capital Investment sides. It is difficult

for the government here to do that with a 40 % cut over three years?

It is about focusing what can be done rather than what cannot.

can be done? Levering in Investment by supporting projects in those

areas, housing for example. For every pound that goes into capital

investment there, you are regenerating four pounds of

investment in communities, creating jobs, skills and investment and

small businesses. Is there more that can be done? There is always

more that you can do. We are looking for a VAT break for people

who were doing home-improvement, what Ed Balls was suggesting, those

are the way forward. There is always more to do, but the Welsh

government is doing the right thing. They should never forget that they

have sent those people into more misery and despair with those cuts,

and if that is what the UK coalition government wants to do

then that is that, but the way forward is to get people back into

jobs, into society. It has been replaced by the work programme and

the Welsh government is fully engaged. Surely one thing we can

agree on is that both governments need to get their act together.

absolutely. The future job fund may have gone. Our correspondent has

more from Westminster. A debate here in Westminster it is an

opportunity for an individual MP to give attention to a subject that

might not otherwise get attention. This week, the Dower MP has chosen

to talk about cluster weapons. Cluster weapons for people who

don't know, what exactly are they? They are a big bomb that contains a

lot of smaller bombs. They explode in the air and all the little bombs

are scattered. Most of them explode and kill anything in the area that

they fall in. Unfortunately, that is bad enough, but even worse, many

of them do not explode and they are left there in the rubble when

people are clearing up their houses after the conflict, in the field

when they try to reap their crops. Tragically, because they look like

little toys, children pick them up and there have been innumerable

incidents of the killing of children who have done up. There is

no question about how dangerous they are a lot of countries have

banned them, but why do you think it is pertinent to bring up the

issue this week? Through something called the Oslo process, led

honourably by Norway, we now have a treaty where 111 countries have

announced completely these weapons. The previous government was

converted to the cause of a complete ban and very honourably

led the charge. The door of other countries that have banned them,

but I sensed a but coming on -- you talk about. Sadly, they have

refused so far to sign up to the convention. America, Russia, China,

the big players. America can hold a pretty big cloud in international

negotiations. You see any prospect of America backing down? I think

any country can sign up to the Oslo process, because Cluster emissions

are not actually that useful military. People are trying to use

a protocol in the UN committee to introduce their own reduction in

Gloucester emissions, but unfortunately or they're talking

about doing is getting rid of cluster emissions but were built

before 1980. By the time they actually get that ban, there is

probably wouldn't be usable anyway. The really dangerous cluster

omissions cover they want to hold onto. For instance, the MAT five,

it did all that damage to children in the Lebanon -- the M 85.

have met the minister responsible hear it in Westminster. There will

be keen negotiations in the next couple of weeks. In an ideal world,

what would you like to see happen at the end of that process? I would

like to see, first, the United Kingdom resisting this protocol

altogether. It is not going to be amended enough to get rid of those

dangerous cluster emissions, but if it went through it would create an

alternative architecture on Costa omissions. So they would get given

legitimacy. -- cluster emissions. The problem lies the flipside is

that it is a green light for the most dangerous cluster munitions of

all. What we should be encouraging, the Americans and others, if they

do want to take some steps and the right direction, that they make a

political declaration to say what they will get rid of and encourage

others to do the same. The sensible thing for them to do is to sign up

to the Oslo Convention. The good luck with your debate.

The Welsh Government is asking for your views on whether every adult

should automatically be put on the organ donation register. But the

controversial idea is already causing confusion. The health

minister, Lesley Griffiths, has said that relatives would have no

legal right to prevent organs being removed. But she admitted that

clinicians would be unlikely to go ahead if families objected. Aled

Roberts, what is your reaction to the idea of this policy of presumed

consent? We have been in favour for three years now. The difficulty is

that there was confusion yesterday. The Health Minister made a

statement in the morning saying that families would not be able to

enforce their will post death, where's the first minister

yesterday afternoon in First Minister's Questions seemed to draw

back on that and it was suggesting that the consultation would allow

them to gauge whether or not there with a view that families should be

able to. Their real practicalities that need to come out in

consultation. How long the family would be given to veto and whether

the NHS database is able to power and wealth to allow for a national

programme. Certainly there have been issues regarding IT and

different health boards not being able to talk to each other. Bathing

their real practical issues that need to be fleshed out. -- I think

there are real practical issues. was surprised yesterday morning

when I heard the health minister was pressed on the subject of

allowing a family's to override the wishes of their relatives --

allowing families. It should be up to individual preference, with you

actually partake. But if you see anybody suffering, in need of an

organ, you would have to think very carefully why you would be against

having presumed consent. But there are grey areas and I think that

should be the subject of the consultation and the people should

try and suggest ideas around that. I can see the problem that if you

have somebody who has organs ready to donate and the families take

upset -- exception to this because of tragic circumstances the, what

you do? I'm sure there are ways around that. I presume this is a

situation which occurs in other countries where they have already

done this. We need more organs to be available. We can save lives and

surely that should be at the front of our minds. We heard the

archbishop being shot down by a lot of people who were probed presumed

consent. But we have got to have the debate. Everyone is entitled to

their view. As a person, if you're opposed to the concept of organ

donation, the reality would be that you would opt out. But clearly

there are issues. Moral issues, the government recognised yesterday

that the government need to form part of this as far as the

consultation is concerned. Do you think the government have thought

it requires muck they have had long and up. At the end of the day, they

-- it is a big issue. Democracy demands an open debate.

You shouldn't try to close down the debate by saying you don't have the

right to your opinion. It is going to be a difficult one. I would

personally tend to come down on the other side. There is an issue over

what the UK government might think about this, because there was

disagreement about this in the past when Dominic Grieve said he could

not see it happening. If that is an issue, let them declare it. I say

we do have the right. I seem the government is quite