15/11/2011 am.pm

Good afternoon. Welcome to the programme. Politicians will be

discussing the Assembly Budget today and a budget can still

stretched to get Vaughan Roderick on the sofa later to talk about

what might happen. Before that, we were taking First Minister's

questions which no doubt will be dominated by the Budget. You can

contact us via twitter, or send us The First Minister is on his feet

taking questions from AMs. Let's go over to the Senate macro.

The first item on the agenda is questions from the First Minister.

Rebecca Evans. Will the First Minister make a statement on his

health priorities for Wales. They can be found in the document.

welcome the Welsh Government's effort to reduce suicide in Wales.

How is the Welsh Government assuring local health boards are

engaged with suicide prevention? The action plan identify his local

health boards as those responsible agencies and leads to agencies for

many of the atoms within the plan, so they are crucial to ensuring the

actions are carried out. First Minister, we have all seen

recently the shocking use of long ambulance queues outside a hospital

in my constituency. Although I drew attention to this last week there

were seven ambulances queuing outside on Sunday of this week. I

am sure you will agree, First Minister that this needs urgent and

immediate action. What is your government doing and what are you

doing as First Minister in the short and long-term to resolve this,

and how do you think that in health spending as you are doing will

address this very real issue? -- cutting health spending. There will

be occasions when a in the departments become very full but

there are few and far between. -- accident and emergency departments.

I take no lectures from the party opposite when we see is the

substantial health that's happening in England. We in Wales will

protect the NHS against the predatory instincts of the party

opposite. Simon Thomas. Thank you, presiding officer. To return to

Wales and my local trust area in particular, the government and the

Health Minister had said it is a priority not to close any district

general hospital sites, but what about developing expert surgery --

Surgery expertise on all sides, will it be a priority for you and

your government to ensure a very surgical specialism in every

district general hospital attracting clinical staff and

giving local people confidence that local hospitals are essential for

your health plans in that area. Local hospitals are essential part

of our policies and the way we can insure that there are centres of

specialist surgery in that area. -- N Short. It is also important to

ensure that we attract more doctors into the area. It has been a

problem for many years, but they didn't want to go to the west of

Swansea, so the minister Lesley Griffiths has launched a campaign

in order to attract more doctors to Wales and the West. Russell George.

Question 2. Will the First Minister make a statement on his priorities

for halting biodiversity loss? Protecting Eco systems is a

priority for the government, and includes actions such as ecosystem

resilience, diversity and the funding of measures such as those

to improve equality. I welcome the �1 million funding the government

has recently announced for projects on improving the natural

environment, but does he have a dedicated budget for delivery

against biodiversity loss? The government has missed its 2010

target for halting what biodiversity loss and has new

targets in place for 2020, so would you agree that it is crucial but

there is a commitment from government to ensure enough funding

is to live at to make the targets possible, and they should be a

dedicated line in the Budget? budget doesn't contain one specific

example of funding for biodiversity loss. There are many examples. The

woodland strategy as another. Thereon Umbro -- a number of areas

within the budget of the government that identify ways to improve

biodiversity retention. Rebecca Evans. Thank you, presiding officer.

Marine protected areas Arequipa to war for protecting being diet --

biodiversity and require management. Given that many marine centres are

not in favourable status, what will Welsh Government do to ensure they

are well managed? We intend to contribute towards an ecologically

coherent UK network of well-managed green areas, and the Countryside

Council for Wales is currently undertaking a review which is due

to report to the government in the New Year. Dafydd Elis-Thomas.

Minister, in what way will the policy of combining the Countryside

Council for Wales, the Environment Agency Wales and the Forestry

Commission, how will that promote biodiversity, considering that

Wales has been very slow on a number of occasions already in

implementing conservation areas? is very important that we look at

the most efficient and effective ways of delivering on the

environment, and of course a single body is a means of doing that and

bringing the expertise that exists in those three organisations into a

single body for the benefit of the environment in Wales. We now move

to questions from party leaders. I called the leader of the opposition

to ask that this Minister three questions. Andrew RT Davies. Thank

you. First Minister, last year the Institute of Directors said that

their members perceived... There was also a comment from the role

Institute of Chartered Surveyors, who said there was an inherent

suspicion around development -- developers and entrepreneurs from

the Welsh Government. You are the minister charged with

responsibility for the Welsh Government business scheme. What

are you doing to address those concerns from two leading

professional bodies representing the private sector here in Wales?

These are reflected in the Council for economic renewal that met last

week. We had a wide range of discussion on a number of issues on

that -- at back Council and concern was not expressed about Welsh

Government's attitude. There will be announcements in due course that

will show businesses in Wales we want to help them in difficult

times. First Minister, you say they were old concerns, but last week

your business minister lamented the fact that the capitalist system --

of the capitalist system and extolled the values of Marxism. Do

you not think when you have the business and enterprise minister

talking on the floor of the Assembly in such terms that the

points I have what you are reinforced, and it alienates

business interacting with the government. What we hear from the

party opposite, redundancies in the public sector, records youth

unemployment, yet the party opposite does nothing. I can

guarantee the leader of the opposition this government will

help young people find work, unlike his party. First Minister as usual

you have not given one answer this afternoon, not one answer. Your

Business Minister has not made one statement to this plenary on the

cause of this government. It has not highlighted what you will be

doing to assist business other than playing Inter governmental

squabbles. I put two very valid points made by business about the

Welsh Government interacting. I have made a point about what the

minister for business said in the plenary. There is a perception

about them that this government is risk-averse and takes no listening

to the business sector in our community. Why were you not respond

to the questions I have put you and ensure your government fully

interacts with business in Wales when people are losing their jobs

up and down this country? He stands there is if his party has no blame

it all to be attached to it for this. Nothing to do with us, the

fact that carbon taxes will cost jobs in Wales, the feed in tariff

will cost jobs in Wales, nothing to do with the party opposite a tall.

We have schemes such as the Welsh jobs fund which will put 4000 young

people into training or apprenticeships every single year.

That will ensure we make up for the neglect we see from the UK

government. The leader of Plaid This is what Ed Miliband said last

night and I will quote him in the language spoken. The government

urgency -- her daily needs to get a plan for growth and jobs which will

put young people back to work -- urgently needs. And get the economy

moving. Do you agree? Yes. I had suspected you might agree with him,

and it would be difficult for you not agree. You have referred to the

fact that you are introducing a new scheme which will provide 4000

opportunities for young people. The latest figures show an additional

5000 young people are out of work already, even at the current

economic climate, and the likelihood is that there will be

yet more again joining that you tomorrow, which will mean 50,000

young people between 16-24 I took work. These could be the last

generation we saw in the Eighties and Nineties, seeing themselves in

the same situation with no hope of finding work, and in addition to

that scheme of 4000 apprenticeships, what are you going to do? There

will be a statement this week from the minister for enterprise and

business regarding the way forward for assisting businesses in Wales.

There will be a statement next week as regards a capital fund we have

for next year, and, of course, we have ensured that it is easier for

young people in Wales to study in keeping the further education

allowance, and also the Assembly's learning grant. Help which is not

available in England, of course. am very pleased that you appear now

to be responding to this crisis, which is a very real crisis in the

economy. I am sure you will have seen the price Waterhouse Coopers

report published today which makes the point that there are structural

problems and the Welsh economy, and that is why, of course, we have

published the economic renewal programme, because of the

structural problems facing the Welsh economy which are being

worsened because of the economic climate, particularly for young

people. We are seeing that the private sector is too small in

Wales and we must develop and grow that. The problem with that is that

it does demonstrate that Wales has a less attractive place to live

because of the structural problems in the economy, then, as well as

the long-term plans. Do you also acknowledge that we need short-term

solutions that will help the economy through the current

recession? And if we see that sort of thing, then are you willing to

review the one Wales programmes to see if there are lessons to be

learnt there? Of course we must ensure we are effective as we can

be, and in addition to the statement I have mentioned, �39

million of funding is available after freezing council tax in

England, which is part, of course, of the plan to move forward, and I

am certain that there will be discussions between the parties as

regards the most effective way forward. Welsh Liberal Democrats.

Kirsty Williams. Do you agree that education does more than shaped the

life chances of individuals or achieve economic success, it is

fundamental to building a just, inclusive and fair society, and if

you do believe that, or why we are not back Welsh Lib Dem proposals to

put -- close the funding gap between Welsh and English schools

and find extra money to help our poorest children? We have made a

commitment, of course, to close in the funding gap that exists. It was

one of the pledges we took in the election and has been fulfilled as

a result of the Budget. These are issues, of course, which form part

of the divisions between the two parties. The education

announcements you have made to date will have little appreciable affect

on closing that gap. In Wales, just one in five children on free school

meals, our poorest children, get five good GCSEs grade A *-C.

Society pays the price for educational failure. Three-quarters

of young offenders describe their academic attainment as Neil and

two-thirds of employers say schools do not equipped young people with

the skills they need for work, and one-third of those excluded from

school are involved in substance misuse. That is the long-term

impact for a short-term failure to invest. Does the Labour Party

really disagree but directing extra resources to the poorest children

to give them that extra help they No, but we disagree with moving

money from other areas to pay for that, it is simply money being

moved around. That said, I appreciate the comments and the

force behind them, whilst standing on her feet is not the best way to

negotiate over the next two minutes, I look forward to discussing these

matters at an appropriate time. Have course, the First Minister

fundamentally would misrepresents policy in England, but I'm

interested in Welsh children. Wales cannot afford a politician's short-

term fix to get the budget through this afternoon. Do you not agree

that we need a Statesman's budget that makes the right choice before

education now end in the future? is important that you put country

before party. Nick Clegg sold students down the river. The second

point to be made is that this, of course, there needs to be a budget,

and there needs to be a Budget that is statesmanlike, and there needs

to be proposals coming forward from other parties that are sensible,

and that means the way it has proposed that money should be spent

in a particular way, or more money should be spent in a particular

area, then consideration should be given to read that comes from.

There is no money in reserve, money is moved from other parts of the

Budget, that is what is sensible, and that is what the Welsh people

expect, and we are more than happy to deal with the discussions we

have had. William Graham. Will the First Minister outline the

priorities for the economic development of the South Wales

East? Yes, they are in their new programme for government. Thank you

for your brief answer. Let me join you in congratulating the private

industries such as BAE Systems which has had enormous input with

apprenticeships, and the food company that has increased its

staff by 50, and the �39 million of private investment that the company

Newport has pioneered in cloud computing. We Dewar agreed that

private industry has made an enormous contribution tooth South

Wales East? Yes, and that has been the case for many years and we want

that to be the case across all of Wales. Will the First Minister

outlined his Government's plans to boost the economy? Our plans are

set out for the programme for government. Thank you. The

Construction Industry needs an injection of confidence, and what

the leaders of the industry had been telling me, they are looking

for a national capital plan, when will the Government announced such

a plan? We're hoping to do that before Christmas, during this

Assembly term. I just got off the phone to a company that has been

providing solar panels to the people on fixed income, people on

low income, for free, because they are able to sell the energy that is

produced by renting the space above the roof of those people. They are

telling me that the impact of this tariff, four months before it was

meant to happen, is absolutely devastating green industries. I

just wonder what impact this is having on the environmental

programme? I think there is a serious threat to jobs as a result

of what was a Brentry decision and I would urge the UK government took

reconsider it. We would do what we can to ensure that this continues

as successfully as it has, and last Friday, the First Minister

announced �8.8 million to improve the energy efficiency of Welsh

homes and to stimulate the wild green economy. That would seek 550

homes benefiting from energy generating technology through this

scheme and it would make sure jobs are made available to people that

need them. During your trip, Your recent trip to China, you

reaffirmed the arrangement that your predecessors signed there in

2006, given the relatively small size of Wales compared with this

Chinese city that is home to more than 28 million people, and a high

level of competition that Wales faces from other international

cities which competes for influence in China, do you agree that the

Welsh economy would be well served by building additional

relationships with smaller and more innovative cities in China? We give

a commitment to broadening the Welsh government approach and links

it builds between Welsh universities and businesses in

China? A small city in China is rather different to the definition

of what we would call a small city. They all very big. We would like to

engage with some cities in China rather than overstretch ourselves

and spread too thinly. We have established a relationship through

a memorandum of understanding, a relationship with Beijing had we

would like to ensure that we maximise investment opportunities

in Wales. First Minister, a small and medium-sized enterprises are

critical to growth in the Welsh economy, but a number of smaller

businesses I have met with recently have identified difficulty in

accessing financial sources that are currently available as a

barrier to growth, and hinder their survival. I visited if the Otley

brewery which is a fantastic example of a Welsh brand with a

capacity to grow and its bottles are in the shop upstairs, but they

had to bottle those products by hand because of the lack of

bottling facilities of their own which requires a small investment.

Given that small and medium-size enterprises often lacks Special

Administrative resources to have bureaucratic have been applying for

government support, what we will you help these businesses and to

release money efficiently and quickly? I hope that it was

memorable the two the Otley brewing company! I can say that the

minister will be making an announcement this week that would

be of help in the way bet you described. What steps will the

First Minister take to ensure ministers and their officials were

together on cross-country issues for Wales? We work together for all

matters to make sure that officials do so too. You will be aware I

brought this an issue of before because in my constituency

identified a lack of strategic and joined-up thinking on some of the

approach has undertaken by government. One of the concerns I

would like to race today is what can you, as First Minister, to me

to bring together people, with regards the new planning

consultation that is coming out, because there will be any planning

Bill which is good for Wales, but I want to make sure the minister for

business, education and skills is also involved in this to ensure

that planning helps businesses to flourish in this country and I

believe that you as First Minister have that ability to bring together

these various departments and I wonder what he would do to halt

that? I am not sure what planning consultation you were referring to,

but if you mean the one that will lead to the publishing of the new

Planning Bill, all ministers will have an interest in ensuring that

this bill is robust, as indeed will local authorities and other bodies

and the public in Wales. As with the previous question, I would like

to ask what proactive steps you as First Minister will be taking to

ensure that the wide range of relevant ministers contribute in a

full and considered wait to be discussions on reforming of the

Common Agricultural Policy? course, around the Cabinet table,

there are a number of items that are discussed and it is an

opportunity for the ministers to express an opinion on things

outside their own portfolio and it makes sure the Government works

together well. What discussions has the First Minister had with the UK

government over the electrification of the main line between South

Wales and London? The UK government is responsible for this funding,

but officials are working with the Department for Transport on a joint

business case that will be completed in December. I wonder if

the First Minister can tell us how the Government intends to promote

the benefits of the electrification of the Great Western line with

businesses in Wales only recently, there was a special First Great

Western servers that I'm sure he knows of and he will agree that it

was great that it broke the previous speed record from Cardiff

to London. It shaped around 20 minutes off the time of travel

between Cardiff and London, so there will be major benefits of

electrification, we were greed is important the Government does all

it can at this point to capitalise on these benefits? Bear in mind,

that train, as far as I know, it did not stop anywhere, which is one

reason why it was rather faster than the normal service! But to

take the point on electrification, it sends a message to investors

that Wales, South Wales, is easy to reach. Investment has been made in

the transport infrastructure and as a result, connectivity between

Cardiff and London, on this occasion, is actually faster than

many would realise. It is important that we seek a letter vocation as

far as Swansea in the meantime. was on the train that no grants you

referred to and I notice that we did not stop in any stations on the

way. But it has to be said that having considered that, it was a

particularly smooth journey and you could see there would be advantages

in operating the railway line. -- up grading. We need to everything

in your ability to ensure that the upgrade, including the

electrification, does go as far as Swansea. It would be wonderful if

it could go further, but if it at least goes as far as Swansea.

very important, for two reasons. It gives a message that if it were to

stop in Cardiff, it gives the message that the main line stops in

Cardiff, and that would not assist Wales in any way. We know that

future investment on trains will be in the electric trains. It is very

important that we in Wales can benefit from an electrified line in

the future. For the very reasons you have just set out, you will

know that Swansea council, local MPs and other bodies are trying to

put together an alternative business case to take

electrification to Swansea. Can you outline what the Government's

involvement is with that process and how much support rigging to it?

We are working with the Department of Transport on a joint business

case to see it completed next month. Will the First Minister make a

statement on improving health and equality in Wales? Yes, good health

and well-being should not depend on where people live for their social

circumstances and the importance of reducing health inequalities is

highlighted in our fight your vision for the NHS in Wales

together for health. -- are a five- year revision. I was very pleased

to attend the National child poverty Conference and young

people's summit recently were children gave first and accounts of

the inequalities they are experiencing because of the poverty

of their parents, and there were discussions about poor diet,

smoking, stress, for example. I know that the programme for

government has set up a range of measures to tackle all of this, but

can you tell us what the white government is doing to address the

needs of children that are suffering in particular? -- what

the wise government is doing? strategy is to reduce the

inequalities that can't see exist in help. -- that currently exist.

Actions are being delivered to improve the health outcomes of

children and young people and families living in poverty. First

Minister, I am deeply concerned about the health and inequality

that exists in South Wales East. Statistics suggest that smoking and

obesity rates above the Wiesner but average. -- the reasonable average.

People have health problems that are higher than the Welsh average.

How will the administration insurer there is a renewed focus on

preventive health measures, to reverse these troubling trends,

particularly in areas of Wales that suffer most from poor public

health? You mentioned smoking, we talked about a tobacco control

action plan that discourages young people from starting to smoke and

to support people that want to give up, and it has a strong focus on

protecting children and reducing inequality in health. Thank you.

The health trust in the Nice area at consulted on creating a new

health centre and the plan was to close the surgery and create a new

centre and retain the resolve and surgery. The intention is now to

close both surgeries with the expectation that people will travel.

How we USS as a government in ensuring that these people that

have to travel on public transport will not suffer health inequalities

as a result as any plan of this sort, and would maintaining a

second surgery be something the Government would support? -- how

would you resolve as a government? It is difficult to know that answer

without considering the concision of both surgeries because it is we

need to make sure that local health boards consider how easy it is to

travel from one place to another. When they considered decisions they

We know there are stark statistics on health inequality not only

within the City of Cardiff but across the country, Bute Town

compared to parts of Ceredigion, there is a distance of over --

difference up over a decade in her life expectancy. Can the government

co-ordinate action between agencies including local health boards and

local government to direct and improve the health in terms of our

poorest and most vulnerable communities. Our Health

unsustainable pre-schools scheme is being rolled out in pre-school

settings -- and sustainable pre- school scheme. By extending flying

start, that is an effective way of reducing inequality in terms of

health in different areas. What are the Welsh Government's priorities

for animal health? Well, the priorities include the eradication

of bovine TB -- TB and taking steps to control other animal diseases,

and ensuring contingency measures can be acted on quickly in the

event of disease outbreak. Thank you for that response, but I am

sure you as I am disappointed that your government has failed to keep

its word in terms of making a clear announcement on the badger cull

plan in the autumn, as was promised. Now the plan will has established

and concluded its work -- panel, or will you ensure it makes an early

statement so York ministers can explain the rationale behind the

decision, be it in favour or against a badger cull, directly

with the agricultural community in the winter fare at Builth Wells

later in the month? This statement will be issued as soon as possible.

The minister is considering the conclusions of the report that will

be given to him by the chief scientific consultant. First

Minister, I have some real concerns about powers transferred to local

authorities to protect animal welfare. I note that currently

there has been a drop in many of the convictions from 204 in 2009 to

147 in 2010. Of the 147, some 114 were for causing unnecessary

suffering, and 20 it for not meeting the welfare requirements of

animals have in their care -- 28. First Minister, what are you doing

to ensure there has been sufficient levels of funding cent the cross

from this Welsh Government to ensure local authorities are able

to carry out their duties diligently so as to avoid any

animals have been Wales and necessarily suffering? Of course,

the funding is for local authorities to explain the level of

funding they give to animal welfare issues. I know the RSPCA has

recently been very supportive in terms of praising animal welfare in

Wales and all the steps done in order to improve it. Question nine,

Ken Skates. Will the First Minister outline what the Welsh Government

is doing to support social enterprises in Wales. We have a

number of ways of supporting social enterprises including specialist

business support and a representative voice within the

Welsh social enterprise coalition. Over the past two years, interest

in social investment bonds has been growing. The central idea is that

an authority such as the Assembly or local government sells bonds,

and the money funds schemes such as those in new services. The bond

issuer repays the bond. The small scheme is already operating in

Peterborough prison at a in -- aimed at cutting reoffending. Will

be Welsh Government were cut the role of innovative funding

solutions like these that they could have been helping provide

additional services such as extra support for care leavers? Yes, we

are always interested in looking at solutions to issue such as

reoffending. Graham aware of the project currently being undertaken

in Peterborough prison, and we will continue to monitor those

activities to see what the outcome of that pilot project is. Mark

Fisher would. As with private enterprise, social enterprise in

Wales is also concerned that they could lose out on procurement

exercises when the public sector is procuring service delivery. What

action is your government taking, or do you propose to take in

practice, to ensure there is support for social enterprises in

Wales, including for business, which takes into account community

causes which too often are not given sufficient consideration by

public sector procurers? The issue of procurement was right -- was

raised at the council and there was a long discussion for part of the

Council on that very topic. As a result of those discussions, we

will be moving forward with plans to make procurement clearer, and to

help smaller businesses bid for contracts in the future. Leanne

Wood. Not a month seems to go by without some study or other

publishing information illustrating how low life expectancy in certain

areas in Wales compared to the rest of the UK. Given that diet is one

of the main contributing factors to low-life expectancy, can you say

how you would be prepared to support any community based

companies set up -- setting up new systems of producing and

distributing food to people who are currently struggling to afford

food? We look, of course, to help through schemes such as the Social

Enterprise Support Project, and the funding we provide to the Wales co-

operative Centre, the redevelopment Trust Association and social firms

Wales, and I know a major conference on social enterprise

will be held in Swansea this week, in fact, during global

entrepreneurship week. I urge any organisations that want to move

forward in the area we describe to get involved and access the funding

that they be available. Question- time, Sandy Mewies. First Minister,

will you make a statement on the support the Welsh Government is

giving to young people in further education in Wales? We will

continue to support young people entering into and returning to

further education, and we have retained important support schemes

including the education maintenance allowance and the Assembly learning

grant. Financial contingency funds are also available for those in

financial difficulties whilst at college. Thank you, First Minister.

Everyone here is where the relief are students felt when the Welsh

Government took the decision to preserve the education maintenance

allowance, unlike the despair felt by students across the border at

the decision taken by the Conservatives and Liberal Democrats

in Westminster. A survey has shown that almost half of England's

further education authorities have seen a decline in student numbers

due to the scrapping of the EMA, and of course, these are the poorer

students. Would you agree with me, First Minister, that are decisions

demonstrate that unlike the UK Tory coalition government, Welsh

Government is investing in young people and not sitting by

completion Lee as restore education are closed and tens of thousands of

young people find themselves out of work because of the coalition's

policy? -- sitting by complacently. Yes, the difference but in

ourselves when it comes to student support and the attitude of the UK

government is that we support students than they don't. Angela

Burns. Sandy Mewies mentioned the thousands of young people in Wales

who do not have a job, and Minister, I was wondering what do you have in

your remit to ensure that for example are nine sectors identified

actually reflect with the minister for education in terms of ensuring

students going for further education actually are studying

courses that will enable them to really go into business, for

businesses we need here for our economy in Wales? That is done, of

course, we want to ensure training opportunities are available in the

key sectors we identified. There have been numerous discussions

between a number of ministers to ensure the need for qualifications

in these key sectors is reflected in the provision of education in

Wales. Simon Thomas. Of course, Plaid Cymru support the

government's current policies, but with investment of �3.6 billion

over this Assembly period going into supporting students, I am sure

you would agree that we must ensure value for money, so what steps were

you as a government take to ensure current policies and plans do not

decrease access to students from deprived backgrounds? Of course, we

will be monitoring the situation, but we know there are so many

students in a position where they wouldn't be able to go to college

if they didn't receive significant levels of financial support, and we

want to ensure that happens in Wales where it doesn't happen in

England. The proposed budget includes a cut in the expenditure

on transport within learning pathways 14-19. Will those cuts be

implemented fairly or equally across the whole of Wales?

course, we want to ensure that it is still possible for students to

travel from one course to another, but in terms of funding, that is

something that is currently, as I understand, going through so local

authorities can take their own That is where we leave First

Minister's questions. You can see more coverage on wine. -- online.

Our Welsh Affairs Editor Vaughan Roderick is with us. Born, I

mentioned at the top of the programme of the Budget dominating.

-- born. Did we see attempts at budget negotiations from Kirsty

Williams there? Yes, and I think in a more subtle way from the leader

of Plaid Cymru. I didn't understand Kirsty Williams's tactics. Parties

are in negotiation, so why try to bring it out into the open by

saying, will you agree? She was never going to get an answer.

and also she may have made things harder for herself, because one of

the appeals, it seemed to me, of doing a deal with the Lib Dems for

Carwyn Jones is that he could do it possibly without moving money

around between departments, but by moving money around within the

education budget. Kevin Jones, in his response, had to say he didn't

think that was a good idea, which makes it harder. I thought it was a

much less icy atmosphere between him and the Plaid Cymru leader

today, so I think the possibility of a deal there is opening up as

well. We know there is a debate in the Senate macro later and the boat,

but it is a side issue really, but -- because it will be on going

until 6th December. It is a ritual, and it doesn't matter if the

government loses today. What is likely to happen today is that both

the opposition amendment and the government motion will fail, but

today is a crucial vote. But what this does show is that the

opposition are in talks with each other. The government shouldn't

think it just has three sets of bilateral talks going on. There are

talks between the opposition parties as well which will

underline to the government that it will not be easy to reach a deal.

In terms of the numbers, we know Labour have 30, there are 30

members of the opposition. Darren Millar of the Conservatives has

been away from the Senate macro in South Africa, and injured his leg

on a visit related to his job and has been wheeled into the chamber

today. That is right, he is off sick but is coming down. It is very

important for the opposition today at least to match the government's

boat. It would be a bad day for them if someone pressed the wrong

button or failed to be here, or whatever. So it is a test of

strength, but a test that doesn't actually do anything apart from

ratchet up the tension on the government. Vaughan Roderick, thank

you. We will keep you updated across all our services here on BBC