10/07/2012 am.pm

Good afternoon, welcome to AM/PM, which will include coverage of

First Minister's Questions and analysis, and the latest political

news from our Welsh Affairs Editor. Before we bring you the weekly

questions to Carwyn Jones, I will give you the opportunity to get in

touch with us. If you want to touch with us. If you want to

comment on anything on the programme or any other political

news, you can contact us using the Business in the chamber is already

under way, but let's catch up with today's questions to the First

I call the National Assembly for Wales to order. Items for one,

questions to the First Minister. Question 1, William Powell. What

are the world Government's priorities for Animal Health and

Ensuring contingency measures are in place to prevent Ann Ming

curtain of bovine TB. We encourage the need to improve welfare

standards at a time of animal slaughter and at a time in need to

comply with the law. As you are Wear, last week's what reductions

in farm gate prices for dairy farmers have come at a time when

feed prices have been soaring and the current adverse weather has

driven herds indoors, depleting existing stocks and threatening

next year's supplies. Taken together, these factors are driving

dairy farmers in many cases to the edge of bankruptcy and the

political action we expect to see tomorrow. With these impacts in

mind, what specific contingencies are in place to deal with the

potential animal health and welfare crisis in Wales in the dairy sector

should these factors combine to suddenly forced dairy farmers out

of business? We will always look to ensure that Amar help and Bob their

standards are kept high. I know that things are difficult for dairy

farmers. The deputy minister for agriculture has written to the UK

government, suggesting that the role of the proposed super market

adjudicators should be strengthened, given the difficulties that dairy

farmers are experiencing at the moment, both in terms of the

weather and in terms of price. First Minister, do you agree with

me that when Welsh livestock have been Riad according to the highest

standards of welfare, that they should be processed humanely at

abattoirs? Professor Bill Reilly, former President of the British

Veterinary Association, said that slaughter without stunning should

be proportionate to action demand from those in religious communities,

which are legally exempt from the requirement to Stam. When you

confirm that your government is fully opposed that -- to these

exemptions being exploited as a cost-cutting exercise, simply to

avoid the expense of running a Stanning unit, particularly at any

premises which has benefited from Welsh government grant money.

Absolutely, there are religious exemptions and they are exemptions

based purely on religious belief. They should not be used as a

backdoor way of processing animals. If there are any examples that the

member is able to give to me, whether that is on a confidential

basis, I am happy to accept that, we will investigate thoroughly.

TRANSLATION: First Minister, if I may endorse the comments made on

the dairy industry in Wales, and you will be aware of this bit in

your previous posts in government. I wasn't entirely clear from your

response whether you accept that the situation is now critical in

terms of dairy farmers in Wales. They find themselves in a situation

where prices for their produce can fall overnight, and yet they are

tied into contracts whereby they will have to wait for 12 months

before they can be released from those contracts. I was very pleased

to hear about what the deputy minister has been doing, but do you

now believed the world government needs to ensure that there is a

programme of action in place to safeguard this important industry

in Wales? Of course, the problem is a problem of price. That is

something that the UK government will have influence on. We welcome

the fact that they are to put in place is of a market adjudicator.

It is very important that individual has the adequate powers

to ensure that dairy farmers are given fairness in terms of price.

Things have been exceptionally poor in terms of whether this year. Many

cattle haven't been able to graze outdoors because of the poor

weather. We know that, and that means that the costs for farmers

are higher because they do have to buy in feed rather than allowing

cattle to graze as they usually Ward. As I said, the minister has

written in order to ensure the adjudicator has sufficient powers

to assist the dairy industry. is the Welsh government planning to

reduce the numbers of people living in poverty in Wales over the next

four years? Last week we published an hour action plan, which sets out

activity over the next four years to reduce poverty. Helping people

to improve their skills and qualifications, and action to

mitigate the impact of poverty here and now. We isn't figures have

shown that there has been a significant fall in child poverty

in Wales, but those figures are expected to rise again in the next

few years. But according to Save the Children, another 6000 more

people - that children are being pushed into poverty next year

because of spending cuts in the UK Coalition's changes to benefit.

What impact is this having other what governments work in trying to

protect our poorest children? have established a ministerial task

and Finnish group that is undertaking a comprehensive

assessment on the two Miller to have effects on the benefit changes.

Whilst we can't pick up the financial burden of the changes

driven by Whitehall, we can wherever possible use the results

of this assessment to target our assessment to help mitigate them.

First Minister, according to Age Alliance Wales, more than 100,000

older people live in poverty in Wales. Many struggled to make ends

meet and are worried about paying their food bills in winter. Does

the First Minister agree that measures to tackle fuel poverty are

important in fighting poverty in general, and will he join me in

welcoming the Westminster government's warm home discount

scheme, which offers pensioners on low incomes and other vulnerable

households to help with the cost of their fuel bills? We have over the

years had schemes which make sure that pensioners are able to heat

their homes at an affordable rate in the winter. But I have to say I

regret the fact that it seems the ideas being floated by the member's

party that the winter fuel allowance should be kept for some

pensioners and that free prescriptions to be kept for some

pensioners as well. Research published last week said that 1

million children are going hungry. That is across the whole of Britain.

And they used the word that children are starving. Whilst we

need to be careful in how we address this information, it is

something that has been raised with me by people who deliver services

to children. I wondered what the government thinks might be

necessary to ensure that we are doing the best possible to ensure

that children are properly fed. recognise that good banks can be

invaluable to those people who find themselves in need. -- food banks.

We are looking to explore the links which can be made between existing

food banks in Wales and relevant programmes in the Social Fund. But

what people need is a decent amount of money to live on. And ultimately,

better skills and more jobs. We now move to questions from the party

leaders. We have the leader of Plaid Cymru, Leanne Wood. First

Minister, do you stand by the words that you gave to this Assembly on

1st May this year, when you told us that the Marcus Longleat report is

not a government report? If that is the case, I would ask you to

reflect fully on the content of the e-mail exchanges which have come to

light today. Those e-mails clearly show collusion and and intend to

make facts fit a predetermined conclusion. Professor Longley says

and does e-mails, I quote, on reflection, the evidence as

presented does not seem to be as incisive as we might have hoped.

First Minister, can you tell us whether your health minister is

included in that we? Was she involved directly or indirectly in

that e-mail exchange? No. First Minister, we are very used to

Labour spin and sexing up of Garcia's. -- de CEOs. Is it really

credible that your health minister didn't know what was going on, that

she had no involvement? That if she didn't know, don't you see that

that is a problem? Doesn't it show incompetence? Can you afford

incompetence in your health minister? I'm sorry to have thrown

the leader of Plaid Cymru off script, but let's see what she is

suggesting. That they is a conspiracy between the whole of the

world government, the Welsh NHS consideration and a distinguished

independent academic, to produce a report that does Wales and the NHS

down. Can I ask her if she really believes that the ministers that

she had or her party had in government in the last government

had knowledge of every single e- mail their officials sent? Is that

really what she is saying? I've seen the e-mails and I challenge

her now. If she can point, now she has had her third question, but

over some course of the next few days, to produce the evidence that

backs up the serious allegation, I wait to see what that evidence

looks like. I have the e-mails here. I challenge her over this afternoon

and the next few days to point to which of these e-mails supports

such the conclusion as she makes. A collaboration and collusion between

several different levels of government and an independent

academic. I find it cowardly. I find it cowardly to besmirch the

repetition of an independent academic, who has been critical of

what government in years gone by, at a time when he cannot answer.

Order, order. We now move to the leader of the Welsh Liberal

Democrats, Kirsty Williams. Actually, the Oxford English

Dictionary defines Independent as free from outside control, not

subject to another authority, not belonging to or supported by a

political party. When your health minister described the case for

change report as independent, which definition of the word was she

using? I challenge the leader of the Liberal Democrats to produce

the evidence that backs up the suggestion that the report wasn't

independent. The health minister told us that the case for change

had been, I quote, approach from a completely independent position. He

has no partisan position to promote. This report constitutes strong

evidence from a clinical perspective, not a political one.

In fact, what does e-mails show was that her officials were hand-in-

glove, nudging and influencing the author of that report to set out, I

quote, a persuasive vision of the government's agenda. How can the

public have any confidence that any proposals that are brought forward

on the basis of independent and academic evidence? I have the male

in front of the added says nothing of the sort. It does not behold the

leader of a political party to distort e-mails in order to support

her tenuous case. I say to her once again, produce the evidence that

there has been collusion, or has she does not read the e-mails?

read the e-mails and they are a shocking indictment. If you're

Minister knew about it or if she doesn't. You have a health minister

who gives out handouts, who gives handouts to health boards which

have overspent their budget but says it's not a bail-out. She sees

local services, local hospitals stripped of services but describes

it as not a downgrading. And when her department puts pressure on the

author of a report to make it, I quote, more positive, she describes

that as independent. How can you and the Welsh public have any

confidence in their Health Minister that refuses to be straight with

them? That is the most pathetic contribution I've ever heard from

any leader in this chamber. I have asked her to produce the evidence

that there was collusion. She has failed miserably. I have asked her

to produce the evidence that somehow the content of the report

was altered as a result of pressure. She has failed miserably. She is

wise not to make these comments outside this chamber, I would

suggest. But once again, it is an example of the Liberal Democrats

trying to throw mud macro -- mud around without trying to get to the

detail. I say to her once again, where is the evidence there was any

pressure or collusion? We should go beyond cheap political point-

scoring which the Liberal Democrats Leader of the opposition. I hear it

your comments to the other parties in the Chamber and it would seem

evident that there is enough doubt to pose a question in people's

minds about these e-mails. One of them to Chris Jones, the medical

director, talks of discussing a critical piece of the jigsaw in the

argument and then goes on to say, we cannot stay as we are just

looking for outcomes. Talking as a collective, the academic and the

Civil Service. These e-mails do require explanation because the

cast sufficient doubt in people's minds that this is they are

sufficiently independent report to base the Government's conclusion on

the Welsh NHS. Of course we cannot stay the way we are. That is not a

surprise. If he can point to anything in this e-mail trail that

suggests that the content was altered, of pressure was applied

and the content of the report was altered, then I wait to see the

results of the evidence that he purports to offer. With respect, I

quoted verbatim from one of the e- mails. Do you not agree that that

type of language, if analysed by someone in the community facing the

closure of their emergency department or other medical

facility, with put sufficient doubt in their minds, that your

government is supposedly based in these proposals on an independent

report. I put it to you that this report clearly is holed below the

waterline and therefore any conclusions flowing from it are not

able to stand up to scrutiny. is the most ridiculous comment I

have ever heard. Let us see what a fair-minded person would do looking

at this e-mail trail. It is the most tenuous political story I have

ever come across. Where is the evidence that the content was

Aldridge? Where is the evidence that Marcus Longley was put under

pressure? Where it is the evidence that markers Longley, that his own

health spokesman described him as a government stooge? What I heard

this morning on the radio was a Conservative health spokesperson

who did his best to wreck the academic reputation of Professor

Marcus Longley. I take no objection to attacks on politicians, we

expect them. Order. We all expect give and take in the robust

exchanges we have in this Chamber. But to attack an academic was below

the belt. I heard his comments and judging by conversations I have had

this morning, he would do well to take legal advice. I also say to

the BBC that they need to examine their position as well. Because

there was a clearly defamatory statement that appeared on the BBC

website this morning. It is cowardice to attack the reputation

of an academic, to try to suggest he is independent and to try to run

his repetition in the Aqaba -- the academic world. Is his party well-

served by health spokesperson for shows such lack of judgment, such

lack of sense and such a slovenly approach to the facts? First

Minister, stop trying to deflect from your own health minister's

combatants. The point is your health spokesperson's competence

and whether she was aware of the facts that are contained within

these e-mails, that were supposedly to help him produce an independent

report. Order. I'm very interested in what the leader of the

opposition is saying. And for quite clear reasons you're trying to do

this. This is typical Welsh Labour trying to pull itself out of a

whole. The fact of the matter... Are you coming to a question?

Minister, will you not oblige the scrutiny of this institution by

making available the Health Minister and her officials to the

health committee so they can be scrutinised on his along with the

NHS Confederation and should Marcus Longleat so chose, come before that

committee so the whole piece of this jigsaw can be put together. It

is about community's health care provision and touches a raw nerve

across the whole of the country. course the Health Minister will be

made available. But I just heard the leader of the opposition

accused me of besmirching the repetition of Professor Marcus

Longleat! His own health spokesperson, who is not here, was

on the radio this morning at using markers long week of conniving,

that was the word he used, with the NHS Confederation and the Welsh

government. He could not have done more to try to wreck the academic

reputation of Professor Marcus Longley. And he accuses me of doing

it! He should look carefully at his own health spokesperson and at what

he said and then decide whether in fact he should remain in his job.

We now move to a larger part of the agenda, perhaps. Question number

three. Will the First Minister outlined

his current priorities for the economy of South Wales?

Were the priorities are set out in the Programme for Government.

leader of the opposition has not thrown in the towel on that issue!

You are now speaking as a constituency member. Could you a

blind how much of the �40 million that you announced in the March

fund for small and medium-sized businesses, has actually found its

way to small businesses in South Wales Central? What I can say is it

has supported the creation of more than 4000 jobs. It was very popular

amongst the small-business community.

I have received representations from serving police officers in

South Wales Central concerned about the implications of the winter

report and the economic impact on our area. The Windsor report

recommends cuts to pay and pensions alone chief constables to make

compulsory redundancies and the introduction of correct entry

recruitment to the higher ranks of the police force. I recently met

with Scottish justice Secretary Kenny MacAskill who has rejected

the Windsor report much to the delight of police officers in

Scotland. Why it will you not pursued the devolution of the

police when the alternative is to allow Theresa May to impose her

will on Welsh police services? Eight is an important issue and

should be dealt with. As a government we are developing our

response. And that will include proposals for devolution in a

number of areas. An announcement on the elective

occasion of the valleys is imminent and will have massive impact on the

economy of South Wales century. Crucial to any transport system is

that part so that Lin together effectively. Have a new scenario

plans being developed to take advantage of electrification if we

do get it? Our position as a government, we see that including

different valley Lines. Otherwise trains would not be able to run

through as they do now. When the opportunity presents itself we will

look to see how integration can be maximised once the announcement is

made. What discussion as the First

Minister had with the UK government ministers from the Department of

Culture, Media and Sports? We have regular discussions.

Local television has the potential to provide viewers with the local

perspective on issues affecting the daily as well as being a powerful

tool to promote community engagement. Last year the UK

government produced a local media action plan for local television

stations including six occasions in Wales. Will the First Minister

flies were discussion his government has had with the

Department of Culture with regards to promoting local television in

Wales? I discussed the matter with Jeremy Hunt when I met him. I am

sceptical that local TB would be successful in six locations across

Wales. We know there has been a chequered history in terms of what

has happened in other parts of the UK. But anything that broadens

broadcast output in Wells has to be welcomed.

Does the First Minister welcome the news that Cardiff is set to hold

the 2014 UEFA Super Cup and canny indicate what arrangements are

being made to ensure that this major sporting event has the

potential to benefit the wider economy? I very much welcome it. It

is a major European event and we can promote them events like the

Champions' League final. We will discuss how best to maximise the

benefits beyond the immediate area of Cardiff.

First Minister, we in this Chamber at know about the problems that

occurred in terms of the negotiation of the Budget. And the

BBC licence. Have there been any discussions regarding any long-term

agreements, once this licence-fee period comes to a close? And what

discussions have you had to ensure that the same problems that have

occurred in the past will actually occur in the future?

I have discussed the situation with the BBC. And the situation has been

resolved in a way over the short term but there was more work to be

done to make sure that the service thrives. That is something we will

be discussing further. In terms of sport, the close road

cycling event will take place this September building on the excellent

event last year which raised an estimated �1.8 million for the

local economy. When you look at the growth potential for this event and

to have to expand this and other complementary sports events which

could generate Sidmouth and leisure tourism revenue?

We will always look to support an event that is successful and has

the potential to develop. Will the first men's to highlight

what help is contained in a programme for government to support

people on low incomes and benefits? Won the action plan demonstrates

how the Welsh government plays a vital role improving the lives of

local families are. I welcomed the support you highlighted in the

programme for government but I'm concerned about figures highlighted

by the BBC last week are identifying an estimated 9000

families that will lose almost �4,000 per year under the

reconfiguration of the working families tax credits. I was also

dismayed by David Cameron's proposals that people under the

aged 25 could lose their right to housing benefit. What can we do in

Wales to furthers his people on low incomes and benefits should these

proposals come to a fruition? the current climate looks set to

remain and is difficult problem. Were helping all we can do persist

households have we are taking forward a financial strategy

widening access to credit. Few could disagree that we must

fight the causes of poverty at their source. And in your programme

for government update you say that devolved policy areas are crucially

important for the longer term. Your party's was once in devolved policy

areas however has been 13 years of broken promises, enders strategies,

many intentions and mere lip service. When you reassure the

people of Wales that in the areas of policy would you don't have

direct control over, that you will raise standards during this

assemblage M? The people of Wales to have

confidence in what we're doing here, the opinion poll last week shows

Jocelyn Davies. Without diminishing capital budget, I'm sure you'd

agree that finding new ways to fund capital projects is a priority, in

order to boost the economy, eight economic growth and create jobs. So

what is your view on the potential future use of PFI? We are very

sceptical of it. We know that the past history of it has shown it

comes at great expense. Nevertheless, we are exploring ways

of levering as much as possible into our capital programme. I know

that the finance minister is exploring those options at the

moment. Will the First Minister make a statement on the world

government's priorities for South Wales East? Yes, the priorities of

found in the programme for government. A rather predictable

answer. Could I ask you what is your Government's policy regarding

the reassurance of that general public, regarding the installation

of incinerators? Clearly there is a public process to go through, but

surely your government has a policy of reassurance? Any incinerators or

any energy from waste plants would have to operate within the strict

guidelines laid down by the Environment Agency. Although we

seek to promote recycling first and foremost, as well as we used. But

there will be a residue of waste that has to be dealt with either

through a diminishing stock of landfill or through energy from

waste plants. Developing the prosperity of the south-east relies

heavily on the transport infrastructure, in order for goods

and people to move in and out of the area, and to attract business

and jobs into the region. It is understandable that businesses and

people in the immediate area are concerned of the proposals on the

M4 corridor and have spent Measures Programme, to close access to the

motorway junctions at 25 and 26 eastbound. What assurances can you

give that any infrastructure developments will not be made at

the expense of the economy? They are designed to enhance the economy.

Where there are options, we will listen carefully to any views that

are made on those options during the consultation process. Question

seven, Peter Black. Will the First Minister make a statement on the

world government's autism policy? yes, autistic spectrum disorders

action plan has delivered the infrastructure within authorities.

It has enable training for professionals and raised awareness

of a St. It might also raise the awareness of some of the failures

in that plan. The National autism society Wales SA47 % of parents in

Wales wait longer than three years for a diagnosis, compared with 34 %

in England. Constituents have failed to get the expert advice

they need because there is no autism expert based in this part of

Wales. Can I ask the Minister what is the action plan to win to put

that right, and what time scale are we looking at? For this financial

year, �2 million is available to continue the development and

implementation of the action plan. That includes the development of

diagnostic and counselling services for adults with a St and children's

diagnostic services. We are working with the National autistic Society

and others to undertake consultation, to identify the key

issues that need to be taken forward in the future as part of

the plan. In the real world, early intervention depends on statements

and statements depend on diagnosis. We know from a 2010 report recently

leaked, but with the Welsh government for 16 months prior to

that, that there were concerns raised about children's diagnosis.

How do you therefore also respond to concerns raised at the recent

crop sporty autism group by M Asperger's syndrome pioneer. I

quote him as saving, adults in Wales are worried about how the

autism action plan is leaving them out, especially with diagnostic

services identifying adults on the spectrum. The money that I referred

to earlier is designed to develop diagnostic services and to support

projects for people with Asperger's. We would expect the action plan,

together with the money that is made available, to ensure that

people get the diagnosis they need as quickly as possible, and

TRANSLATION: First Minister, two of my constituents came to see me last

week. They have a son on the autistic spectrum. They said that

the fact that he had had an iPad for him, it made a great difference

in his conduct and ability to learn. There are such devices available

especially for people suffering with autism. Has your government

undertaken any research into this and would you be willing to

consider insuring that people on the spectrum could have access to

these kinds of devices, as you progress in your consultation on

the autism plan up to 2015? TRANSLATION: That's an interesting

idea and I do hope it's an idea that will be mentioned during the

consultation that will take place, as to the future direction of the

autism action plan. Question eight. TRANSLATION: What discussions has

doubled government had regarding regional benefits?

TRANSLATION: There's quite a bit of confusion around the UK Prime

Minister's proposal. We as a government haven't had any but

discussions to date because we don't know exactly what the

position is for the Prime Minister's stands on this during

the life of this government. Westminster government policies are

becoming more and more contentious. There are continuous cuts macro,

regional pay and changes to the benefit system are made worse by

talking about regional benefits, where people in areas with low

incomes will receive even lower benefits. Wales already has the

lowest weekly wage of the four nations of the UK. Most of the

benefits are used to top up that income. If these plans by the

Westminster government come into existence, were you oppose them on

all occasions? Yes, I would. We know that the cost of living in

Wales is no less than that in the south-west of England. In fact,

there are some things which are more expensive. I don't see any way

of supporting regional benefits, bearing that in mind. First

Minister, dare I suggest that if you are not going to have

discussions with the Westminster government about the policy area,

such as regional benefits, then you will not have a full understanding

about what the UK government is proposing. Can I ask you this,

there is a lot of hearsay and scaremongering about this, but

there is no such a proposal on the table for regional benefits. Can I

agree with what Keith Davies said in his question regarding the

problems at the moment with pay differentials, and the fact that

some of the Widders in Wales are the worst in any part of the UK.

Can you tell us what you are doing to address that particular aspect

of the question? I will say what we are not doing, we don't believe

that public sector pay should be cut by 20 %. It would make things

even worse, something which the UK Treasury tried to put forward at

one point. We are not going to engage in conversations with the UK

government on regional benefits because we don't agree with

regional benefits. There is no compromise, there is opposition. We

do not accept that people in Wales and the people in the north-east of

England should be paid less or given less in terms of benefits

because of where they live. We know full well that the cost of living

is the same wherever you off. - Mark you are. It was said that the

shadow Work and Pensions Secretary was in favour of a cap on household

and local benefits. Are you in favour of this policy? No it isn't,

I don't agree with that policy. Will the First Minister biggest in

another world government's priorities for children's rights?

We are the first area of the UK to enshrine children's rights in our

domestic law. I join with you in that could answer. Really, I wanted

to ask you about your action plan on children's rights. There are 16

priority areas listed, yet know where are the needs of young carers

in Wales specifically mentioned. In Wales there are 11,000 children who

care for a relative, such tasks at -- as washing, making meals,

dressing and bathing. Some of these children are in primary schools.

Many of these young carers are also bullied in school and miss out on

education. What assurances can you give that these vulnerable young

carers, that their rights to be free from bullying and to the same

educational opportunities of other children will be safeguarded by

this government, bearing in mind the very important. That support

for young carers can be included as an additional priority within your

five-year action plan? Support for young carers is at priority for us,

as it was for his party when he was part of government. People know

that there are many young people in Wales who are carers. That is why

it for the carers strategy, it has put support in place for young

carers and we recognise the contribution that they make, but

also recognised the need for them to have support. I'm sure you'll

agree with me that all people, especially children, have the right

to not suffer abuse throughout their lives. One of the areas where

abuse does sometimes occur is in the area of the sports field.

There's a big problem in sporting come up with sporting punishments

and regulations for people who've committed abuse. If a judo coach,

and there is evidence of a judo coach, were to abuse a child in his

care, then if that person moves away from judo into another sport,

there's no cross reference from the Independent safeguarding authority

as to where they've gone and the fact that they've committed this

awful crime. What discussions have you had all we you undertake to

have with the Westminster government, because this is a joint

thing between Westminster and Wales about how the Independent

safeguarding authority should put into place proper rules and

regulations to ensure that no matter what sport you are in, you

are regulated, and if you are found to have committed abuse against the

child, you can be prevented from going into any other area? It is an

important point. I will write to her with the details she requires

as to how different levels of government are working together on

this. That is it a First Minister's

Questions this week. You can see more coverage of the National

Assembly online. You will also be able to see the Health Minister,

Leslie Griffiths, make a statement in that row over the independence

of a report into Welsh NHS reforms in about 20 minutes. As ever, our

Welsh are fed -- Welsh Affairs Editor is back with us. Probably

the most ill-tempered First Minister's Questions I've seen

while sitting here. What do you think? Yes, very difficult to

remember any First Minister's Questions where the temperature was

quite as high, the level of acrimony quite as tight as I think

you'd have to go back to the days of Alun Michael, for the sort of

seething anger there was on the benches right around the chamber

over this issue of these e-mails between Welsh civil servants and

Professor Marcus Longley, who was preparing an independent report,

the government said come on the future of the Welsh Health Service.

Fill us in on where people stand on this. The First Minister was

defending his government. What was he defending? Basically, this goes

down to a string of e-mails which were released as a result of a

Freedom of Information request. We don't know who made that request.

Maybe we should put in a request! They were put between Professor

Marcus Longley, who was preparing this report on the future of the

Welsh Health Service, and people high up in the Civil Service in the

world government about the content of that report. The e-mails were

couched in fairly friendly terms, and the opposition claimed that

what was happening was Professor Longley was preparing a report to

justify policies the Government had already decided on. The government

fiercely rejects that. They say the report was independent, that there

was no evidence in these e-mails that anything in the report has

changed, or that he was being leaned on in any way a tour. Carwyn

Jones took it one step further and it used, particularly the

Consumers' -- the Conservative spokesman, of impugning Professor

Longley's integrity by suggesting he wasn't David independent from

government. There is mileage in this story, not least because the

Health Minister is going to make a statement on the matter would

possibly will add more fuel to the fire. Almost certainly. There is a

general feeling here that the position of the Health Minister is

a bit insecure anyway. If she didn't know about these e-mails,

she wasn't in control of her department. It she did, how could

she possibly describe Professor along the's report as being one

that is independent from government. They are more or less saying if it

is one, she's it should resign, if it's the other, she should be

sacked. The opposition aren't going to let that party go. I don't see

the minister resigning, I don't see Carwyn Jones sacking her, but I

think she will be on the rack for quite some time. OK. We will be

settling down to watch that debate. You can join us, where we will be