19/11/2013 am.pm

Good afternoon and welcome to the programme. Now, what can we expect?

There are questions on the order paper about the best way to improve

the Welsh economy and about the recent measles outbreaks in parts of

the country. I'm sure that party leaders will want to ask the First

Minister where he stands now we have more information about which taxes

are about to be transferred from London to Cardiff Bay. What do you

want to talk about? If you want to comment on anything on the

programme, or any other news, get in touch. You can reach us via:

Business under way, so we'll look at today's questions to the First

Minister. First item to the First Minister. Question one. Will the

First Minister make a statement on finance Wales? Yes, finance Wales is

to provide finance to support and encourage growth. It has invested

?268 million in Welsh businesses, and a further ?443 million in

creating 13,000 new jobs. Thank you. A welcome announcement by the UK

Government devolving business rates to Wales is a step in the right

direction for our small and micro-sized businesses, but how do

they access finance? Of 743 loan investments made by Finance Wales

since 2007, 73% have acacted borrowing rates -- attracted

borrowing rates of 20% or higher. Some could have been along 5%. First

Minister, there are calls now for more reform and scrutiny as regards

Finance Wales, but also too, for the establishment of a Welsh Development

Bank. Will you support these calls? Well, we very much welcome the

proposal to fully devolve business rates to Wales. With regard to

Finance Wales, the minister commissioned a review into Finance

Wales and whatever the model is in the future, it's important that the

body is able to fund itself and that is reflected by the need on occasion

to ensure interest rates are set so to ensure the body is self-funding,

but this was discussed in the assembly last week and the minister

will look to take it forward. TRANSLATION: Do you believe that

Finance Wales has been successful in responding to the borrowing needs of

the sector over the past few years? TRANSLATION: Yes I do. As I

mentioned earlier, there are 13,000 new jobs that have been created and

I believe that's a very good record. In view of the fact that the UK

business minister Vince Cable's proposal for a business bank doesn't

seem to include any regional element to it, does he feel there is a role

for Finance Wales in order to deal with the finance in Wales? Yes there

is and I can say officials are working to explore how we might

secure British business bank funds in the future. TRANSLATION: Thank

you. What about food banks in Wales? We are supporting the network,

particularly in light of the clanks resulting -- clanks resulting from

-- changes resulting from welfare reform. We need to help the

individuals deal with the challenges they're facing. Supermarket surplus

has been raised with me. All three have reported a rise in numbers,

particularly in light of welfare changes and I'm pleased to support a

full collection this year. I know the FSA supports food donation,

provided it's fit for human consumption and free from

contamination and the Welsh Government is encouraging this. What

further action can we take through guidance to further encourage the

amount of surplus food donated to food banks? I can say that we fund a

food waste programme and we have set up a working group. It's been tasked

with developing a bet are understanding to the barriers of

surplus food redistribution and finding solutions to those. They are

working alongside Fair Share Recycle and retailers to undertake a trial

to identify the surpluses arising at stores. The suitability for

redistribution and processes to enable supply in local communities.

Later this year, that group will publish a set of guide is

principles, along with implementation guidelines. Can we

pay tribute to the faith groups who run things like the food banks and

have done similar provision over many generations? I do very much

applaud the work of all those who are involved with food banks,

because in the current economic climate they provide a service that

so many families rely on. #. I agree with my friend, Keith Davies, in

view of the fact that too many supermarkets have stated they throw

away tonnes of food every week. Can the Welsh Government not put

pressure on the major supermarkets to donate more to banks? This is

perfectly good food or perhaps you could persuade them, First Minister,

to sell it even more cheaply than they do now. I think I referred the

member to the answer I gave in response to the question to the

member for clan ledgely, where I outlined -- Llanelli, where I

outlined what was being doing done. We move to questions from the party

leaders. First we have the leader of Plaid Cymru. First Minister, figures

released this weekend show that Welsh town centres are still facing

a tough time with lowering numbers of shoppers and too many empty

shops. Plaid Cymru have outlined our plans to change the business rate

multiplier and to introduce further business rate relief to give small

and medium sized enterprises a competitive edge. What is your plan?

Now that we know, as of yesterday, that business rates are to be fully

devolved, that gives us the opportunity to develop more flexible

solutions for Welsh town centres. Thank you for your answer. We look

forward to the detail of your proposal. Interviewed on Radio Wales

last night, the chief Secretary to the Treasury says the UK Government

had decided to introduce a lock step on our potential income tax powers,

because of the functioning of the UK labour market. This lock step will

prevent Wales from being able to gain a competitive edge. What are

you going to do about that contraining position? Proposals

should have been implemented before. You with previous stated that you

will not contemplate taking responsibility for income tax

though, haven't you? Until we get fair funding. Plaid Cymru supports

fair funding, of course we do, and there is a lot that Wales could do

with a further ?400 million a year. I've asked you this before and so

far you've failed to answer this question, so I give you another

opportunity this afternoon to demonstrate your seriousness - will

there be a commitment by your party to a needs-based funding formula in

2015 election manifesto? If you are not able to make that commitment

this afternoon, should we just take it that your influence on these and

any other matters within your party is very limited? The first thing to

remember is that my party is a GB-wide party and it's important for

Wales and also for parts of England as well, so when we decide policy we

consult with others outside of Wales. Our position as a Government

is absolutely clear. We believe that reform is due. We believe that Wales

should be entitled to the money that the Commission has identified that

we should be receiving. As far as the leader of Plaid Cymru's party is

concerned, once again, I have to riT Tate, that whenever there is a

dispute between UK treasury and Welsh Government, her MPs take the

side of UK Treasury. Jonathan Edwards, the MP for Carmarthen

Eastern, whenever there is a dispute over HS2, he immediately leapt in

with both feet and said it was the fault of the Welsh Government. The

leader of Plaid Cymru can shout as much as she likes, I know she

doesn't like the answer. The reality is it's important that her party

steps up to the plate when it comes to standing up for Wales and her MPs

move away from their London-centric tendency to support UK Treasury

ministers in any dispute against Welsh ministers. It's about time her

party started thinking more about Wales. We move to questions from the

Leader of the Opposition. Thank you. First Minister, when did you realise

that your policy on tuition fees was unsustainable? I thought that might

have been the answer coming from you, so let's just recap shall we?

In 2010, the form eeducation minister said the Government has the

responsibility for Welsh domicile students wherever they choose to

study. Leighton Andrews went on to tell the BBC that the figures, which

took account of inflation, showed that the fees policy was

sustainable. However, the FOI that we have clearly shows that that

policy was mot eleed up to 2021 and -- modelled up to 2012, and yet

today we have a review and whether it is viable to continue. In its

first full financial year you are already questioning the viability of

it. Wasn't it not just a gimmick in 2011 for the election? I'm not sure

I can improve on the answer that was given mind me, by my friend, the

member for the Rhondda. I can say plainly that we made a commitment as

a Government to implement this policy and it will continue for the

course of this Government. You might well say you cannot improve on the

answer of Christmas past who sits on the backbenches, because every now

and again we hear a rumbling, but he obviously sits there rather than

around the Cabinet table, but what we have to remember is today,

because of your policy, a plumber would not get the same level of

support as a barrister, because you choose not to support vocational

education to the same level as you support higher education and indeed

you were quite happy to allow a significant proportion of the Welsh

Government's budget to leech out of Wales and support universities in

England. # is it not the case, First Minister, that instead of standing

up for students, you are cherry picking in HE over FE, where you

have announced I ?50 million worth of cuts in further education. When

it comes to fees, you've got as much credibility as Nick Clegg has got.

LAUGHTER I will leave it to the leader of the

Liberal Democrats to answer that final part of the question, if I

may. Let's examine the situation carefully. His party wants to treble

tuition fees for students. That's what they wish to do, to make it

more expensive to go to university and he uses the example. That is the

wrong example to offer. Barristers are not funded at all. It isn't

funded. It's the wrong example to give. The reality is if you enter on

to the Bar course there is no funding available. It's an

exceptionally expensive course to undertake. That is the daftest

example I have heard in the chamber. Perhaps he should take it up with

those who gave thiple that. He talk about FE. We have helped FE

financially as best we can, given the cuts. Where was he and his

protests when the allowance was abolished by his part in London? We

have kept them in Wales. The reality is that we are committed to students

more than HE and FE when all his party wants to do is make it more

expensive for people to get qualifications. I'm looking forward

to being able to here the leader of the Welsh Liberal Democrats. Thank

you. Today, the BMA have said that the main reason that there is

massive pressure on A departments in Wales is because of a 20%

reduction in the number of beds. Do you agree with them? No, I think the

pressures on A are more complex. We have seen the winter pressures

and more admissions. They've increased by 68% over the past ten

years. And, it is difficult to ensure that with that level of

demand, that demand is met. Looking at the latest figures, we are moving

in the right direction. Two weeks ago in MPQs the Prime Minister

launched a stinging attack on the Welsh NHS and your spokesman

responded by saying that David Cameron was inaccurate. For once, I

agree with him. The Prime Minister said that A waiting times had not

been met since 2009. He was inaccurate in saying that. Because

you've never met your A waiting times. Isn't it time that you did

admit that there are not enough beds in the Welsh NHS to cope with the

demands that will be placed upon it this winter?

Our plan is robust and we are in a good place to deal with pressures.

One wonders what plans you are looking at. The most recent figures

show that the number of people suffering from delayed transfer of

care in September this year is 10% up from the figure September last

year. Not only do we not have enough beds in the NHS, we don't have the

right patients in the right beds. What is your Government going to do

to ensure that hospital beds are volunteer -- -- available to

patients who need them the most and those who don't need them are

discharged in a timely fashion. The length of delay and time of delay

has fallen, days delayed fall be -- fallen by 80%. I do have to point

out to the leader of the Liberal Democrats that her party's record in

health is nothing to shout about. 4,500 nurses sacked. ?20 billion

worth of cuts in the English NHS. The NHS chief responsible for A

services in England saying he would be unhappy if one of his relatives

was admitted to hospital over the weekend because of a shortage of

consultants. We know that the financial problems in the English

NHS. We know that the number of trusts missing the UK's Government

four-hour waiting time target has more than doubled. We accept the

difficulties that occasionally arise in the Welsh NHS. We deal with them.

The figures show that. It's a shame that her party and the Conservative

Party cannot recognise the mess they're making of the NHS elsewhere.

It's perfectly valid. The Prime Minister stands up in Prime

Minister's Questions, he talks about the Welsh NHS as is his freedom to

do, but it's right with the Tories and Lib Dems in charge of the NHS in

Wales, we'll see fewer nurses, fewer beds, less money, more burning rupt

LHBs and a level of care that will continue to decline.

THE SPEAKER: Now we move back to questions on the paper. Will the

First Minister detail what the Welsh Government is doing about

competitiveness in Wales. We're making it ease whier for business to

access finance. We're developing an economic framework for investment to

signal future direction for economic policy in Wales. Thank you. You may

be aware that the UK competitiveness index last week showed Cardiff

falling seven places since 2010 and four of the bottom least competitive

UK local authorities are located in the South Wales valleys. I'm sure

you would agrow that this simply isn't good enough. You've previously

blamed a lack of tools in the box for the economic woes. Now the UK

Government is giving you more fiscal rules, when will you get on turning

the job of the economy around because you don't have anywhere to

hide now. We haven't got the tools yet nor a date by which those tools

will be in place. But we welcome them. We have to remember that the

level of unemployment has dropped. The level of economic inactivity has

dropped. If you look exports, this eare up 4. 3% over the last quarter.

Foreign investment doubling over the course of the past year. We have

seen GDP improve, gross domestic household income has improved. We

believe we are on course. We cannot divorce ourselves from the economic

policies being implemented across the UK. Without doubt that would

hold us back. # First Minister, over the weekend we heard fantastic news

from the Dubai air show that Erebus has secured over ?30 billion worning

of orders. Now this is incredibly -- worth of orders. This is incredibly

important. I know the local member for Deeside is particularly

delighted even more that his football team had a hammering, so

he's had good news this weekend. The aerospace industry is vital to the

Welsh economy. It protects Mandy - who beat conyaz key? Rhyl? --

ConnahsQuay? Rhyl? Will you congratulate Erebus on their success

and update us on what your Government is doing to drive forward

growth through supporting high-tech manufacturing sectors? We have a

close working relationship with Erebus. We've provided them with

assistance in years gone by. They're an important employer as far as

Wales is concerned. Our support for the advanced tells and manufacturing

sector is designed to is designed to advance that sector. Working with

Erebus, we look forward to seeing the Erebus plan to grow from

strength to strength in the future. I'm delighted to congratulate them

on this dlent -- excellent news. You say that you want the

implementation, but can I pick up on a question asked earlier. Will you

pledge to make it a priority now to negotiate the devolving of income

tax in the way that silk proposed, rather than in the inflexible way

that is now proposed by the UK Government in order to give the

Welsh economy a competitive edge? The aebs to that is -- answer to

that is yes, I think it is important that the Silk Commission's

recommendations should be followed through. The proposal with regards

to income tax is not to implement the commission's recommendation. I

if fully support the implementation the mechanism -- of the

implementiation of a mechanism for the future. But that's not the

mechanism implementing proposals of silk. These are issues that no doubt

will form part of the debate over the next few years. Members will

know, I am not of the view that the devolution of income tax powers is a

priority. It wouldn't be possible anyway before 2017, I suspect. I did

see mention being made last week of a potential sun set clause which

certainly isn't the case as far as a referendum would be concerned. It

would be wrong for any UK Government minister to suggest that a

referendum could be held in Wales over income tax powers, but it would

have to be done by a certain time. That would be counter to the

commission's proposals. One area of particular economic growth potential

is the film and television industry. Just last week, you may have heard

that the Warner Brothers blockbuster the Man from Uncle was being filled

in Ceredigion, bringing many thousands of pounds into the Welsh

economy. However, on occasions the opportunities can be hampered by

delays in local planning. As recently of 2012 we have the example

that Skyfall went to Scotland because of specific planning

difficulties. In the context of that, what is your Government

prepared to do to ensure that maybe through the Planning Bill and other

methods, what can be done to ensure that Wales is open for business

particularly when we're seeking to ensure that we are competitive with

the creative industries? The creative industries is important to

Wales. They were part of the agenda for the British-Irish Council held

in Jersey last Friday. Local planning authorities have to take

decisions for themselves, but it's important that we understand that

where there are opportunities for job creation and injection of funds

into the local economy, the planning authorities have to bear that in

mind when they take their decisions. It is correct to say that Skyfall

was lost to the Brecon beakens and went to -- Brecon Beacons and went

to Scotland that is regrettable. We are responsive in terms of Welsh

Government and local Government as possible when it comes to ensuring

that we are the locations for particularly well-known films. I did

notice watching World Ward Z where those of you familiar with it will

know that the world is saved because of a medical facility based in

Cardiff. Even though it's clear that the facility itself isn't in Wales

given the crick etc in the background are a give away. That is

something to be proud of. What are the milestones expected to be

achieved by the active travel act for Wales, which has just become

law? It's an important piece of legislation which will result of the

development of integrated roots and -- routes and facilities across

Wales in the next few years. I'm pleased to see as part of road

safety act this week, your Government has announced a

consultation of risk assessing the routes to school for children who

are walking there. And thanks to the Welsh Government's safer routes in

communities scheme parts of my constituency are now going to become

a 20mph pilot zone, which is extremely welcome. This is expected

to have minimal impact on journey times by car and bus and will make

it safe for pedestrians and cyclists. How can we ensure that

initiatives like this link up with the objectives of the active travel

act? What's important is that as we work with travel, there is -- there

is sufficient road safety. One of the concerns is having to share the

road with cars. If cars are slowed down, that will encourage more

people, I believe, to cycle. I welcome what Cardiff Council is

doing. We allocated ?400,000 for those schemes. They will be

important schemes in areas, for example, where there are a lot of

students, who themselves have access to bikes. It's important that we

promote active travel in that way. Of course, also ensure that the

roads are as safe as they can be for cyclists and pedestrians in the

future. First Minister, I have two

documents, the one the climbing higher document from January 2005

and the climbing higher next steps from July 2006, I have them here

because they had a target set of 95% of people in Wales having a foot

path or cycle path within a ten-minute walk of their home. Nine

years down-the-line, that has still not come to fruition. I ask the

question on the back of the last question, how confident are you that

the objectives of the active travel bill, which all the subscribe to,

how confident are you in five years, ten years down-the-line, the bill

will make hay difference to people's lives and that local authorities

will actually have enough finance at this time to make it a reality? This

is legislation, this is not what we could have done in years gone by. I

am certain with the legislation and the statutory guidance which will

support the implementation of the act that we will see the act's

objectives being met. One of the issues arisen out of sad deaths of a

number of cyclists in London recently is the poor design of

routes with cycle lanes being marked intermittently on roads. Can you

tell us how the bill will alleviate the situation so that we can ensure

that cyclists are not dying on Welsh road? The design guidance will be

issued as a result of the act. That will set the standards for the

design of walking and cycling infrastructure. The member is right

to point out that there are examples, I've seen them, of cycle

paths that come to an abrupt end with the word "end" and then people

are back onto the main highway. That guidance will need to be implemented

by local authorities. Also the delivery guidance will explain what

the duties in the act mean in practice, with those things taken

together, I believe we will see proper cycle routes that don't come

to an abrupt end, as we have seen in the past. Will the First Minister

provide an opinion on the welfare reform in Wales. We commissioned a

three-stage programme and this has helped us to inform our response to

mitigate, where we can, those impacts in Wales. The next report is

due to be published in the new year. Nearly 34,000 people across Wales

have been hit by the bedroom tax losing an average of more than ?13

per week, while 6,500 households with two spare rooms are losing more

than ?20 per week. With Christmas ash the corner I'm worried about the

1700 tenants building up housing debt because of this pernicious

policy. I support recent Welsh Government proposals to scrap

mandatory ground eight, which can be used to evict them. Though I

understand the current envelope moratorium on ground eight has

worked well, working with the Housing Minister will you ensure

this is strengthened by a change in the law so that people do not face

mandatory eviction because of bedroom tax arrears. First of all

the bedroom tax is pernicious. There's no question about that. We

see the effect on people despite the assurances given by the UK

Government. We are exploring, as a Cabinet, ways of ensuring that

people don't face the difficulties of unnecessary evict. I've heard

calls from other parties to put forward a no-eviction policy. That

has an effect on other people who pay and there is a cost to that. But

nevertheless, it is something that we are actively giving consideration

to at the moment. It's three years since the private sector built in

welfare reform and needed to work with local Government.

Two-and-a-half years since the UK Government issued detailed guidance

on Prius for the changes. Why did the Welsh Government delay action to

identify exempt groups, those priority for discretionary housing

payments and increase supply until after the changes had taken effect.

I assume the member is joking given the fact that these reforms came

into place in April and he expects us to have build 17,000 one-bed

accommodation since that time. It's not good enough for the

Conservatives to suddenly blame us as a party and a Government for the

problem they introduced. One of the other members tried it last week, he

pointed out that people was being see vict -- evicted. It's your

policy. You defend. It you explain it to the people of Wales. You tell

those people who face eviction that's something that according to

your party, they deserve. TRANSLATION: First Minister, there

are thousands, if not millions of people on benefits and pensions

facing a hard winter, particularly bearing in mind that the price of

fuel is increasing and if that's the case, would awe gree it's

disgraceful that the major energy companies are sitting on money and

increasing prices that have been gathered for things such as eco,

which is supposed to insulate homes and people people on benefits cope

with the winter. Is there anything you can do to put more pressure on

the companies to release this money, which is already being gathered

through their high prices, but yet to be spent on low-quality homes in

Wales? TRANSLATION: We have schemes, but what is very important is that

people should be able to afford the energy that they use and one of the

things my party has said on a British level is we will freeze

prices in future and that will be of a great benefit to all. #

TRANSLATION: As part of the welfare reforms under the last Labour

Government in London, the independent living fund was closed.

Now, there has been a court case over this part fortnight that

questioned whether the funds should continue, but there is a requirement

for the Welsh Government to decide whether the fund is to implement it

nationally here in Wales or at the County Council level. When will the

Government make that decision? TRANSLATION: This is something that

we are discussing at present, but it's true to say that the fact that

our budget has been squeezed over the past years doesn't help matters.

Of course, we know that the United Kingdom Government has the record of

giving us the responsibility without giving us the full funding and we

saw that with the council tax benefit and we have seen it with

other issues too. So, we then have to find that funding in order to

maintain the same schemes. Will you outline the latest information on

measles in Wales? Our latest information indicates there have

been 39 notifications of measles since Octobe They centre on four

schools in the south Powys area and we continue to take action to reduce

the number of children affected. It seems cleaver, due to the outbreaks,

that they confirm that hard-to-reach groups are not responding to appeals

to have doses of the MMR. Public Health Wales has warned there is

another risk and somehow the message that it can be a very, very serious

condition does not seem to be getting across to the public.

Therefore, if current appeals to parents and olders children to have

this fail, will the Welsh Government look at tougher measures, including

invoking public health law, keeping children who have not had the MMR

vaccine and close contacts infected children away from school? We do not

support compulsory vaccination, but nevertheless Public Health Wales

have identified the need to tighten the law possibly in terms of

ensuring that a close contact of probable cases are excluded from

schools until the infectious period is over. That is something that we

are looking at at the moment. Nevertheless, it's important to

encourage people to ensure their children are vaccinated. If that

doesn't happen, it's important to ensure the disease doesn't Prince

Edward -- spread to those who are unvaccinated. It may be that further

steps should be taken to ensure the safety of those children. First

Minister, the outbreak that took hold in South Wales was particularly

damaging, I think, to the confidence that people have had sometimes in

the whole of the vaccination programme, because of the adverse

publicity received over a decade ago, as a result of some very poor

media reporting and some atrocious propaganda put out by a particular

medical professional. What work are you now doing to capture this 30,000

group of young people who still aren't vaccinated? I appreciate the

response you have have previously given, but we know many of the

people are in the same Local Health Board areas and I wonder what

focussed work you might do to play catch-up with those 30,000 young

people? The new delivery framework includes the need to ensure that 95%

of children are vaccinated by four years old. All plans are in to the

Chief Medical Officer, ensuring there are measures in place and to

provide catch-up opportunities for children who have missed out on

scheduled vaccinations. The Public Health Wales report says there are

problems in the 10-18 and co horse who are continuing to resist efforts

to get them vaccinated. How will you refocus the messages and information

to parents to try to tackle those issues? It's difficult with those

who missed being vaccinated when they were young children. At the

time when the publicity against the vaccination was at its highest. Both

organisations have recommended that health professionals use every

opportunity they have in terms of encounters they have with young

adults as an opportunity to check their status and to promote

vaccination. One of my constituents died. In the pre-vaccination era my

sister ended up profoundly deaf. Wh more could be done to check the

seriousness of measles and increase the number of children who are

vaccinated by the MMR? I think part of the problem is that many parents

are of the generation where the vaccine was not available and think

it was a harmless illness, because they didn't have it. Those of us who

did it were lucky as measles can be serious and as we know potentially

fatal. Important then that we re-emphasise the message that it's

not mob tested with. It's far better to be vaccinated against the disease

that might potentially kill and that is the message I'm happy to

reiterate again in this chamber again and I know health

professionals will be doing the same. Will the First Minister make a

statement on co--production in public sectors? It can bring

benefits to public services and we are looking at ways in which

coproduction can become a reality. How do you respond to the statement

of last week's communities conference in Wales that now is the

time for change, but the fear is that we either don't respond quickly

enough or that we respond with a further programme, rather than

reform services and changing systems and structures breaking down the

barriers wen those who provide services and those who use them? --

between those who provide services and those who use them? A panel has

been recruited to provide an independent voice for carers and

citizens. There is the framework I mentioned in the proposed Bill. Our

framework or action on independent living is an example as well of a

co-productive approach to addressing the barriers to equality and

inclusion, that are faced for example by disabled people and of

course there are supporting people programmes and the families first

programme and in communities first. TRANSLATION: First Minister, in the

financial context facing us at present, do you believe that local

authorities, when they talk about providing basic services when senior

officers leave or departs from the authority, should they look at

re-allocating those responsibility from among the management team

rather that making a new appointment? TRANSLATION: That's

something for local authorities to decide for themselves and they are

accountable to the people they represent. There we are. We'll leave

First Minister's Questions there, but you can see more coverage of the

National Assembly on-line from the democracy live page. Our Welsh

affairs editor has been watching in our newsroom. Vaughan, a lot of

discussion about the commissioning report and tax powers. Any clearer

now on where the parties stand and what they would do with them? Well,

I think we are a little bit clearer. Carwyn Jones made it pretty clear

that he was very much opposed to any idea of a sunset clause, that he

wanted the mechanism to transfer tax powers from London to Cardiff, but

that he didn't intend to use that. You also had a slight air of

embarrassment on the Conservative and Liberal Democrat benches,

because what the Westminster coalition delivered yesterday wasn't

exactly what the Silk Commissi recommended and what the

Conservatives and Liberal Democrats here were fighting for. That was the

freedom to vary income tax rates independent of each other. Instead

of that, the UK Government has put a lock step in place, which means you

have to cut the rates or increase the rates at the same level. We saw

a little bit there about the sort of debates we'll see going forward, but

it's still very early days. Does this lock step argument, does it

make it a bit easier for him to say that really he can argue it's not

something that would be of any benefit to the Welsh Government? He

can argue that. The question is, how long that lock step will last,

because the political reason that that is there is because it exists

in Scotland. It would have looked very odd if the UK Government on the

eve of the independent referendum had given the Welsh Government and

the Welsh Assembly more freed Dom that Scotland at the moment. Once we

are passed the independent referendum next year, I think you

may well see, whatever the result, a change in the lock step aroundments

for Scotland, or indeed Scotland going alone. I think the whole

question of that lock step will be open again after the referendum.

Briefly, a lot of talk on higher education. There is a review, but it

will not report until back after the elections. Not everyone impressed?

No. There have been heated exchanges in an urgent question that is going

on behind me at the moment. People are accusing the Welsh Government of

attempting to kick the issue into the long grass. The education

Minister saying that that synthetic outrage and he's determined to try

to achieve consensus. Vaughan, thank you.

That's it for today. We'll be bat at the same time next week, with more

coverage of First Minister's Questions. If you want more Welsh

politics before then, there is Wales Today this evening at 6.30pm and on

S 4 C at 9.00pm. The Wales kl Report with Huw Edwards tomorrow at