20/09/2011 am.pm

Good afternoon. Welcome to the first am.pm of the new political

term. Our AMs are together in the Senedd for the first time since

July. We'll join them there shortly. If you'd like to contact us during

the programme, you can send an email or you can tweet us. There's

the address on the screen for you. Today's proceedings have started

with a minute's silence in memory of the four Miners who lost their

lives. The First Minister will also be making a statement. We will also

speak to our Welsh Affairs Editor later in the programme. But first,

to the Senedd. It is my sad duty today to ask you

to stand and observe one minute's silence. The First Minister will

Apology for the loss of subtitles for 63 seconds

I now call on the First Minister, Carwyn Jones. Members will be

familiar with the key facts surrounding the tragedy of Gleision

last week. We now know that a four Miners were trapped by water. Three

Miners escaped. We also know that effort to rescue the remaining four

trapped were unsuccessful. The four Miners were Charles Breslin, David

Powell, Garry Jenkins and Phillip Hill. All were local. I know that

all members will join me in offering condolences to the

bereaved families. Our thoughts are with them and the wider community

shares their loss. There was a time in our history where mining and

tragedies were sadly,. We have hoped that, of course, those events

were in the past. The incident is a tragic reminder of the dangers

associated with the mining industry. The police are leading the

investigation it in accordance with the work related deaths protocol

agreed with the police, the local authorities, and the Crown

Prosecution Service. The Health and Safety Executive is providing

technical support. It may be appropriate for them to take the

lead in the investigation. I expect a fault report into the causes of

the tragedy to be published in due course. -- a full report. I would

like to pay tribute to the emergency services who worked at

personal risk are to search for the Miners. These include police, fire

and ambulance services and rescue services. Mining communities are

traditionally close-knit and supportive to those in need. No one

can fail to have been impressed by the kindness shown by neighbours at

a time of need. I referred to the shared history of coal-mining which

still forms a powerful bond among communities in many parts of our

country. The tragedy at Gleision is a tragedy for Wales. Thank you

First Minister. There has been a great outpouring of grief from

around the world, and you will all have received a letter from the

Secretary of State for Wales. thank the First Minister for his

statement this afternoon? It is entirely appropriate than on our

first meeting, we, as a collective, come together to show and was

support and our strength as a country in dealing with such issues.

-- our support. In a world that is often it numbed with news about

deaths, it is something that is taken for granted that it is some

thing that happens somewhere else. But the events on Friday emphasised

the consequences of a tragedy. I know the area very well. To

actually see the location of this Mine really was striking, because

it never occurred to me there was a Mine in that area. I'd paid tribute

to the excellent work that the emergency services under took on

behalf of all concerned in trying to bring a favourable outcome to

this tragedy that happened last Thursday and Friday, and indeed, it

was enormous pride to see them working hand-in-glove with everyone

else to try and bring a satisfactory conclusion to this sad

events. The response we saw was a very Welsh response from the

community. One thing that Wales is exceptionally good that his

rallying around together and supporting people when they need

that support. I believe that only in Wales you would find that level

of community support and help. If I may pose two questions to you,

First Minister. Is there, in your mind, so fish and local support

from the local health board and local authorities to make sure the

families of the bereaved and survivors have the support they

require? -- sufficient local support. With time, adjustment can

be made. Secondly, and you alluded to this, when the investigation's

conclusions are brought forward, the matters that relate to interest

in this Assembly, mainly around planning, you will bring a fault

statement to the splendour ring so members may have the opportunity to

obviously analyse and ask questions. -- to the plenary. I leave the

thoughts and prayers with the family -- families of the bereaved.

May I firstly thank the Minister for making the statement today? It

is entirely appropriate they should be a statement bearing in mind the

huge tragedy that happened last Thursday and Friday. We had not

expected to see such a tragedy unfold. Miners losing their lives

underground. We were reminded just how dangerous working underground

continues to be, despite all the work that has been done over the

years and decades in making things as safe as possible. We, of course,

cannot imagine the pain felt by these families in losing a loved

one's been such an accident in the Gleision Colliery. But we sent our

regards to the family's. The whole community pulled together to

support the families, and that is testament to the spirited -- to the

spirit but exists in the local community. I was brought up in a

nearby valley, and a therefore the information I have of the spirit

that exists within the community became apparent in the hours

following the accident. I would like to pay tribute to those who

risked their lives in the search and rescue operation. While hope

existed that the men could have been found alive, they did

everything possible to reach them. And Wales is very proud of the work

they did. As the First Minister has said, the investigation into the

accident must go on. This will give the families and communities

answers to many of the questions they surely will have up. I am sure

the First Minister will agree we must not reach a hasty conclusions,

but we should all remain determined to learn that the lessons of this

devastating and tragic accident. One expert has reminded us already

that it is impossible to limit risks in working underground, or

working within the mining industry. Many of us in this Chamber may have

relatives who have lost their lives and mining accidents. While mining

camp, and has been made safer, it cannot be made entirely safe. Will

the First Minister agree it is the job of government at all levels to

make sure that those risks are minimised and eliminated as far as

is humanly possible? As we have heard today, members of this

Assembly stand together as we mourn the loss of four Miners. We send

our condolences to their families. We cannot know their pain, but we

can do our utmost to stand by their sides. As the First Minister agreed

that the best tribute we can pay to their memory is to make sure that

when the investigation is complete, we stand determined to do our best

to make sure that for the next generation who venture into the

bowels of the Earth to extract gold, mining is an even safer industry?

There will come a time for questions. There will come a time

for answers to be sought. It is natural that when we seek a tragedy

like this, people want to know how it happened. I don't believe that

time is upon us yet. I have listened carefully to the views of

the families, and they have asked to be left to grieve in peace. And

they must be allowed to do that. There will come at a time, of

course, when they need to be a full inquiry, and of course, should

there be any lessons from that inquiry that can be learnt by

organisations that are within the responsibility of the Welsh

government, then I will bring a statement before the Assembly in

order for questions to be asked. I joined with the Leader of the

Opposition, off-course in expressing condolences. -- of cause.

We emphasise those words as possible. These were experienced

Miners. It is right to say they are risks with any job, but I don't

think anybody expected this tragedy to happen. There were many things I

thought I would have to deal with in the course of my role as First

Minister, but a mining accident was not one of them. We all believed

that mining accidents were a thing of the past, and not something we

would all have to face in the future, least of all the families

Leader of the Welsh Liberal Democrats. Can I thank the First

Minister for his statement here this afternoon.

I thank the First Minister for the support that he's personally given

to the families during this very difficult time and the role that

you have played in recent days in providing that support.

May I, on behalf of the Welsh Liberal Democrats, join with you,

First Minister, in sending our sincere condolences to the families

of the men that have so tragically lost their lives. Also the best

wishes to the survivors of this horrific accident. I don't think

anybody here can begin to imagine the horror and pain suffered by

these families in the agonising hours following the knock at the

door. It's an horrific experience to lose anybody unexpected and in

accidental circumstances, but to have that dragged out over such an

extended period in the full glare of the spotlight of media attention

must only add to the difficulties of those families. Like you, I

would like to thank and pay tribute to all of those that did their

utmost in the most difficult of circumstances to bring a more

positive end to this horrific incident. The mine's Rescue Service,

the police, Fire Service and paramedics who worked tirelessly

and with great personal risk and strain to themselves to try and

bring those men home alive and their determination even when all

hope is lost, to bring those men home for their families.

I also think that everybody has been extremely touched by the

common humanity of the people of Pontardawe and the area in their

response to this. We often hear that in some ways our society and

communities have changed. This incident has demonstrated to us

that that common humanity and that feeling of belonging has not

changed in Welsh communities. It's as alive and well as as it has ever

been, and in the most difficult of circumstances, we often see the

best of human kind and we saw that in the response. I'm sure, the

ongoing support that that community will continue to offer to the

families, we will continue to see that. Now is not the time to be

able to give definitive answers as to what happened and why it

happened. You may be able to let the Assembly know when you expect

the reports and investigations to come to a conclusion and when you

may be able to come to this chamber to give us an update. In closing

today, Presiding Officers, I think maybe perhaps some people have

wondered why there has been this response to this specific incident,

indeed in recent moths we have seen other work place tragedies where

men and women have lost their lives while simply doing their job. This

is a reminder of our shared and collective history of our close

connections, all of us, to the mining industry, which has not so

very -- is not so very, very far away. My father was the first

person in his family not to have to go down the pit. It connects us all.

That's why we see the response that we have because it's a shared

reminder of our shared history and the fact that no man should have to

go to work, no matter what industry they're involved in, and not return

home safe to their families. There is no time scale yet on any

investigation. But of course, it's a matter for those authorities

who're responsible for conducting the investigation to do so. When

such a report is available, I'm sure that members, of course, will

take a deep interest in it. I think, if I may say, that the leader of

the Liberal Democrats, has outlined an important issue. There are so

many of us in this chamber who come from a mining background. I

represent the first generation of my family not to have any miners in

it for four generations. There were always men working underground in

my family for over a century. My position is no different from many

orthis is -- others. We know that mining still has the capacity to

touch the heart and strike a cord, not just within Wales, but around

the world. We saw the coverage of the tragedy from around the world,

messages came from around the world, of support for the families and the

community, and it's also true to say that the response of the local

community was astonishing in terms of the support they gave to those

families at a time of great trouble for them. It was something

mepblgsed to me when I visited the families at a very difficult time

on the Friday morning when they knew that one of the miners had

been killed. They didn't know which of the miners had been killed and

the other three families had yet to know. Of course, the news got more

difficult and tragic for them as the day went on. The one thing they

can be sure of, is that even at this difficult time, when they're

still at the very beginning of their grieving as families, that

they have so many people from within Wales and from around the

world who are standing shoulder-to- shoulder with them, who are

thinking of them and certainly Thank you, Presiding Officer and

may I thank you First Minister for your statement and your presence in

the communities. The accident in the Gleision mine has been a

terrible blow for the community, for the families, for my

constituency and of course, wider than that. It's right that there

should be an investigation, but I agree with you that we must wait

for the results of that. This morning, I went to a comprehensive

school where two of the pupils, Alex and Scott, have lost their

father. To be amongstst the children and young people, it was

and did actually cheer me up because I believe, as far as the

school is concerned, the children and young people know how to

respond. I would like to reflect on the resilience of the families. It

was a very, very long wait in the community hall. The atmosphere

changed from hope to deeper and keeper anxiety and then to dread,

absolute dread. But still, you know, there was a little girl playing

with her toys on the floor of that hall. I think in latter years, we

have become more relaxed about the impact of pit tragedies. We are no

longer living daily with the fear of a mining tragedy. They had to a

degree become a thing of the past. This tragedy has, however, brought

back very painful memories to many of us. But those memories have also

brought a closeness to our communities. That was the way we

were. Carwyn, you've mentioned the cave rescue, the diverse mines

rescue, the mines rescue are familiar sights not very long ago

within our communities, but I think it did bring a real toy the

situation to see them there once again. The Fire and Rescue Service,

the police and the ambulance, all of them had families of their own

thinking about them. The WRVS, the Red Cross, social services,

individuals and businesses, a community spirit of support has

been very real and abiding in this part of the Neath constituency.

We think of the tragic death of the little boy and we also remember the

dreadful murder of Catherine and Ben Mullaney. Support for the

families of the Gleision Miners, the miners who lost their lives,

the three who are able to escape, one of which, of course, is being

treated for his injuries in hospital, is local and widespread.

I'm sure, First Minister, that you agree with me that we must now

offer our support and our condolences, our sympathies, and we

must also now respect the need of I listened carefully, of course, to

what Gwenda Thomas said, and she was one of those who spent much

time with the families over the very difficult experience that they

were going through on Thursday and Friday. She mentioned the mine and

cave rescue teams. There is one comment that I remember vividly

from the Friday. I went to thank the mines rescue team that was made

up in the main of men who worked in the drift mine in the Neath Valley.

I thanked them for the work they were putting in. One of them said

to me "it's not a question of being thanked, there's a man down there

who's 6 years old, if he's prepared to two down there and work at 62,

then I'm prepared to find him and I'll carry on until I do find him."

for me, that summed up, in a few very short sentences, the

determination of the mines rescue teams and all the other people

there who put so much effort into finding the men.

Could I also take this opportunity to thank the First Minister and

everyone else who's made contributions today. The tragic

events of last week I think are something we all find quite

difficult to talk about. Everyone was stunned and saddened by the

unexpected turns at the Gleision mine on Thursday and Friday. The

villages of the Swansea and Neath Valleys have responded with warmth,

generosity and unity. That may come as no surprise because these are

places where the word "community" still means something and where

friendships with neighbours and friends is a part of every day life.

The wider world has been inspired by that to express its own regret

and sympathies. However we've all been affected by this terrible news,

there are four families who're experiencing this as an intensely

painful and completely personal tragedy, four family who is're to

endure the inerm nabl wait for information, knowing that events

were unfolding before cameras and microphones and who finally faced

the worst of truths. So I pay tribute to those families. They

were kind enough to speak, not only to all of their friends, but to

strangers who came with little to offer but words. How many times

must they have had to suspend their anxiety to put others at ease

during the 36 hours or so? dignity has been humbling and a

privilege to witness. It's the very least we can do for the families

and for the survivors and their families to allow them to privacy

they've asked for. The work of the miners and the

emergency and rescue services remind us that people risk their

lives for us and for others and we take it for granted. I joined in

the tributes to the courageous team who is put themselves in danger

last week. No more could have been asked for them. Our contribution to

healing of these wounds and I hope the First Minister agrees, is to

insist on improvements to safety procedures. If we can make life

safer for rescue services, we must do so. With increased interest in

the south-east coalfield, we must make life easier for those who

extract fuel. It will not help to dwell in the past, this a failing

of today, a clear and present danger and one which must not

become part of our future. I hope that the health and safety

investigation will give the families the answers they need and

I hope that they direct us on the best way to improve safety in this

inherently dangerous industry. Thank you.

There must be answers, of course, but it's important not to speculate

on what happened, ve even though it's perfectly natural to seek

answers and to seek answers quickly. There must be a full investigation,

all the appropriate authorities are involved in that investigation and

it's important that we wait to find out what that investigation

revealles in order to ensure that if there are lessons to be learned,

that that happens -- reveals in order to ensure. Thank you for

today's statement. I wanted to start by quoting what Bob Williams,

the Mayor of Pontardawe said over the weekend about what happened at

the gleetion mine. He said "when we walk past this place we will think

of tonight and remember them. We are here together as friends,

family, neighbours and a community to remember four brave men and

their grieving families. Time may heal the pain, but will never take

away the memories." I think that summed up quite succinctly the

tragedy and the effect that had on the community of Pontardawe at the

vigil that we had on Sunday night. As others have alieued to here

today, it seems sotragically terrible that when so many of the

arguments we've had in this chamber are bound up in how we get Wales to

work together again. All these decades after the industry that

sustained this country and coal would come back and haunt us again

in this particular way. Our focus, as many of us have said too, must

remain with the families of those men that we have lost and

supporting them and the people who're looking after them. I would

also like to take the opportunity to pay tribute to the communities

around the area of the Swansea Valley whose families and

communities have come together to help the families concerned.

I'm fortunate enough to live in one of the communities in the area and

it's been humbling to see how people have come together. At the

time of the accident, is I was at home and there's no protocol for

things like this, so I went up, as did Gwenda Thomas, and many others,

just to see how the families were. It's very difficult because you

don't want to imping on their time and problems, but you want to tell

them that you are there for them. If many of us can be there for the

families, because it's not going to be something that will go away in

the next months or years, it will What we can do positively is to

give money to the miners' fund, so we can look forward positively to

the future of. I want to finish by commemorating the life of Harry

Patterson. I hope this is the last tragedy in the foreseeable future.

Can I join with other members in expressing my sadness and

condolences to the families of the miners who lost their lives? And

also to thank the emergency services, whose commitment and

dedication is unquestionable, but keep in terms of trying to resolve

this. They worked tirelessly. We cannot express the too much our

admiration in their work. It was a tragedy they were not able to pull

those miners out alive. What came out of this, for me, was the

strength of the communities involved, and the way they came

together to support the families and to offer their help and their

sympathies and support be put in. Clearly, nobody expected to have to

cope with another tragedy as the First Minister alluded to in his

statement, it was so unexpected. It wasn't something we expected to

happen. The fact everyone came together and reacted the way they

did was certainly important to those communities. Can I also

echoed the remarks in relation to the funds that have been set up?

That fund is very important. I am pleased the UK government has given

25% contributions to that fund. We should also be asking more people

to commit as much as they can to that, because the money that raises,

will be very important in helping those families. It will be

important in terms of their future. Thank you. I am very grateful to

have the opportunity to contribute to this. The heartbreaking events

are a tragic reminder of the risks undertaken by those who work

underground. Although a small scale operation, the exposure to danger

of was an inevitable ingredient of the industry. As to why this

tragedy occurred, we can only speculate, and it would be wrong to

draw conclusions from such speculation. Tragically, it we have

become accustomed in Wales, given what past, to be the recipients of

such a dreadful news from time to time. I remember very well on 21st

October, 1966, when as a young boy I was summoned into the Assembly

hall in my school, and told of the horrific events. Last Friday, in a

similar vein, I listened to the news, hoping and praying that a

positive outcome would be announced, but sadly, this was not to be. I

want to put on record my thanks to the rescue services. Major incident

seems require true professionals. We are fortunately blessed with the

best in this respect. Above all, I want to say how sad and I am that

this tragedy has occurred, and convey my condolences to the

families of the miners who lost their lives. My thoughts are also

to Malcolm as he recovers from hospital. I know that in the true

tradition of the area, the communities support their families

in their loss. However, it is incumbent on us all to ensure they

are catered for in their needs, but welfare and financial. I hope that

the findings from the inquiry will assist them in coming to terms with

this tragic loss. What plans to is the Welsh

government have to create jobs in North Wales? My priority is to

support a job creation in the whole The site is still vacant. What

plans does the Government have to attract investment and jobs to the

site, bearing in mind it is crucial in terms of the wider economic

regeneration of the Paris? They efforts have been made recently,

efforts to attract investment. regeneration of the site. The state

of the global economy affect everything. Can I warmly welcomed

the announcement of five enterprise zones, which are to be set-up? Will

you ensure that enterprise zones set up in Wales serve the interests

of the regional economies? A lot of thought has been given to ensuring

that does not happen in terms of the geography of enterprise zones,

and with regard to the kind of investment we are looking to bring

into those areas. May I welcome the Business Minister's announcement on

enterprise zones? I am delighted to hear a lot of thought has been

given to the regional benefit, perhaps in the light of the lack of

detail. Cannot the First Minister provide greater details as to how

that assurance will be met, and what reassurance can you provide

two businesses in North Wales, many of whom were concerned about the

delay on this issue that officials have sufficient motivation and

experience to make the most of the opportunities of enterprise zones?

The five sides that have been chosen have been chosen for their

geography and capacity to attract particular types of investments.

The reason why it took until now to make this announcement is because

of a lack of clarity on behalf of the UK government. We still have

not receive this clarity. Pipe also welcomed the announcement. -- might

also welcome. When will these zones be established? It is important

that we do get information about capital allowances to insure we

provide a comprehensive package, that we need those details from the

Treasury. They have not been made available so far. That's where we

leave the Senedd for today, but you can watch the upcoming First

Minister's Questions on BBC Wales's Democracy Live online coverage. But

don't leave us just yet. We'll catch up with our Welsh Affairs

editor, Vaughan Roderick, who's here. Let us deal with the tributes

paid to the miners who lost their lives last week. They were

heartfelt tributes from a lot of the AMs who were there on the day.

A lot of politicians spend a lot of time near the Gleision mind over

and the weekend -- Gleision mind. He. You have seen a model of what

representatives should do when these events happen in their areas.

Mining maybe a small industry in Wales, only 400 people work there,

but most Welsh families have some sort of family or community

connection either with the coal industry, or other underground work.

At one time, half of the adult Welsh population worked underground,

in the coal industry. It has an emotional resonance. It was

absolutely right that they had an opportunity to make those

statements to their. If we move on to their bread and butter if you

like. The first question and was about enterprise zones. It hasn't

gone down well. You also see the opposition parties who have been

calling for enterprise zones to be set up in Wales, tried to but a

link between that decision like Jaguar-Land Rover not to come here.

They will try hard to make that connection, although we understand

that Jaguar-Land Rover's decision was made in April. But the

Government has now announced these enterprise zones. They are raised

eyebrows in Swansea, Newport, etc. It is only issue that will have the

legs. Leg does look at other issues. Briefly, the budget. Labour failed

to have a majority and struggled to get a budget in through. They will