22/10/2013 am.pm

Good afternoon. Welcome to am.pm and our weekly coverage of questions to

the First Minister. A number of AMs are raising questions on the

economy, from borrowing powers to rising fuel prices. Health, as ever,

is never far from the political agenda at FMQs and is likely to

arise. That's what I think the politicians will be talking about.

What do you want to talk about? If you want to comment on anything on

the programme or any other political news, get in touch with us. You can

reach us via Twitter or send us an email. Well, with business having

already kicked off in the Chamber, let's take a look now at questions

to the First Minister. What steps it has the first Minister

taken to ensure borrowing powers for Wales? I told him last Wednesday

about borrowing powers for Wales. The Welsh business community feels

very strongly about this. These borrowing powers are crucially

important to the Welsh economy, so can you explain to us why your

government has been so inadequate and ineffective in securing these

powers? Not at all. We have received support from the business community

in making this case. We look forward to ensuring this happens before too

long. We need action from the UK government on this. Surely, that

Westminster government can take action immediately? Have they told

you why they are not implemented soak part one? It was deliberately

kept outside. I have been told many times borrowing powers are accepted

in principle, but we need to see changes put in place. We need to

finance big projects. If there ever were... Could you tell us what

management framework is the Welsh Government are working to to ensure

the Government is ready to take on these borrowing powers? Can you

outline what mechanism you intend to put in place in order to ensure that

any decisions on borrowing powers are accountable to this Assembly?

That work has been done. The United Kingdom government has been

supportive of the principal, when I spoke to the Prime Minister, he told

me he accepted the commission's recommendations in full. If that is

true, we look forward to them being implemented in future. But work has

been done to ensure we are in a position to use these powers. Will

he make a statement on the success of the carrier bag charge? We have

seen a huge decrease in the demand of single use carrier bags. Research

shows that the charges are supported by the public and more people are

reusing their bags. We are still looking at the impact of the charge.

The purpose of the levy was to reduce usage of single use carrier

bags and a great deal of money has been raised for charities. Following

some throwaway comments from yourself a few weeks ago, are you

now taking side of the clear public opinion that is now agreed that we

could see similar outcomes by introducing a levy on sugary drinks,

mainly that we could employ many more doctors through those who wish

to pay that levy, but also, we could tackle the serious problem of

obesity? First of all, we don't have the powers because the charge for

the single use carriers goes straight to the charities. Regarding

employing more doctors, we would have two draw in between ?80 million

and ?103 million to ensure that more people actually drank more of these

sugary drinks! I don't think that is a sensible approach at a time when

we are trying to get people to drink less of these drinks. We must ensure

that the number of people using sugary drinks either drink as much

as they do at the moment will increase. I agree with the first

Minister. The public and retailers have been accepting and positive of

the charge. One of the contributing factors to the success of the policy

was setting the charge at 5p. I wonder if he would rule out any

increases of the levy in the foreseeable future? There are no

plans to change the levy. There is, of course, a policy review. But at

this moment in time, there are no plans to change the levy. It depends

what that review shows, and depends on what we see as the practices of

some supermarkets. We will have to keep a close eye on that. On the

10th of September, your government issued a statement with said plans

are in place for rigorous bed capacity planning based on

anticipated demand, robust workforce planning and escalation arrangements

to cope with spikes in demand this winter. Did you know, then, the

health board 's intention to postpone all surgery? Are you

satisfied that ambulances are being turned away? All I health boards are

planning for winter pressures. It is wrong to say the health board is

cancelling all non-urgent orthopaedic surgery. Those who have

been scheduled to have orthopaedic surgery will receive it. All cancer,

urgent and trauma surgery will continue. They are planning ahead so

that they can carry ahead with appropriate numbers of operations

but still have capacity to deal with winter pressures. That is precisely

what the party opposite had been calling for! We are used to put

antics from you. I didn't say cancel, I said postpone. However,

there is a waiting time for 15 months for orthopaedic surgery. An

extra five or six months could be added to that time. You stand here

every week and claimed that patient safety is your overriding priority.

Is Unison right, or are you saying that you genuinely believe patient

safety would be compromised by people waiting longer for treatment?

Operations are not even being postponed! All patients scheduled to

have orthopaedic surgery will receive it. What I health board is

doing is making sure they have an appropriate number of operations so

they create capacity. Or is she saying the better approach would be

to schedule more operations and cancel them further down the line?

This is exactly what she and her party had been asking for. No, it is

not. Are you aware of the level of outrage amongst clinicians who have

been told they have a third of their work taken away from them? They will

be underutilised for four months out of 12. These staff still have to be

paid. People are stuck on waiting lists in pain. When can you take

responsibility? We are taking responsibility in the way the party

opposite is not. Their preferred option is to cancel operations at

the last minute. We prefer to take the view we are planning for winter

pressures, local health boards are planning for an appropriate number

of operations. If they are saying that is not what they want to see,

they do not want to see plans put in place to deal with winter pressures.

It's a complete contradiction! Last week, you told me and this Chamber

the seasonal planning group had been planning for the NHS winter since

March. Yesterday, eight months since that group started meeting, they

announced they would reschedule some orthopaedic elective work and would

not be operating their third -- their full orthopaedic capacity

until after winter. How long has your government known that they had

been planning this action? We became aware this was planned yesterday,

but this is exactly what we would expect local health boards to do.

She cannot say there has to be planning for winter pressures and

criticise them for doing that! I didn't say that. I asked you how

long you had known about it. Last week, I asked you to outline how

many operations would have to be rescheduled this winter because of

winter pressures. Unsurprisingly, you didn't have an answer for that

question. In light of the news today, I will ask you again: Given

that planning has been going on since March, how many elective

operations are you assuming will have to be cancelled to make space

for winter pressures? No non-urgent elective orthopaedic surgery

operations have been cancelled. You have told me, in this Chamber last

week, that the Health Minister has been clear in terms of what has been

planned for the NHS this winter. You now to this Chamber you didn't know

about those plans since yesterday, you have not been able to provide a

figure of how many operations you expect to be postponed. It seems you

are not clear about plans for this winter, the Government isn't either

and the public and clinicians are not clear. Why don't you play that

up and publish, today, all the plans that have been submitted? She has

been calling for plans to deal with winter pressures. The local health

board has put forward plans to deal with winter pressures, and she's not

happy with either! The local health board has to plan for an appropriate

number of operations. None have been cancelled. I have already mentioned,

several times, that those scheduled to receive orthopaedic surgery will

receive it, but there is a need to deal with emergencies over the

course of the winter. Or is she saying that should not happen? This

is part of planning a winter pressures and she really should get

a grip. I have listened with interest to the answers... It is

interesting listening to Labour backbenchers who think this is a

laughing matter! You said in response to earlier questions that

it was only yesterday your government became aware of the

proposals. We are told on a constant basis that the Health Minister meets

with senior executives and the chairman of the health boards across

Wales. And yet, you are expecting us to believe your government knew

nothing until yesterday! Is it not the case that this shows your

government is detached from the reality of what many patients and

clinicians are experiencing within the Welsh NHS? Absolutely not.

Unless he objects to what is proposed, I don't see what the

problem is. The question is whether your government, which is in charge

of NHS Wales, is in the loop. We are seeing issues arriving at the front

door of LH be time and time again, which affect patient experience and

patient treatment. You said earlier that to date no operations have been

cancelled, but over the next five months, there is clearly a

cancellation of non-elective surgery in the area. This will have a

massive impact on the patient experience, and also on the ability

of the board to retain its key clinicians. How can he be so

flippant in the face of such proposals? He is either setting out

to be disingenuous, or he hasn't listened to the answer I have given

three times. I will say it again so he is on his feet and he can't say

he hasn't answered -- she hasn't heard. The health board is not

cancelling any elective non-orthopaedic surgery. It is

reducing the patient work so as to better manage the caseload in the

winter period, which is what his party has been calling for. You are

just trying to muddy the waters with your barrister training. It is the

fact that in one of our major health board areas, people will not be

having the procedures that they reasonably expect their health board

to deliver. Clinicians have pointed out that a considerable part of

their workload which they are able to undertake is now going to be

prevented by the health board's instructions. Isn't it time that

your government got a grip on this, actually addressed the ability for

patients to have the procedure is they require within the area, and

ultimately, we do not move into a crisis situation in the next 12

months? A crisis situation is precisely what the Leader of the

Opposition is calling for, if he listened to the logic of his own

argument. He is saying there should be no spare capacity in the NHS in

that area over the winter. He is saying that things should be

carrying on as they were before and there should be no space making

capacity for winter pressures. The health board have built that extra

capacity in place. We want to make sure that fewer people have their

operations cancelled, and that means planning now for winter pressures,

which is exactly what all the parties in this chamber have been

calling for for the past few months. Yet, when the local health board

wants to plan for winter pressures, they all start complaining. Can the

First Minister make a statement on the number of nice -- NICE clinical

guidelines that have not been implemented in Wales? I am not aware

of any. In 2008, NICE issued clinical guidelines in relation to

new call scanning in Wales for pregnant women. There is no such

scanning available in North Wales, unless you pay for it privately,

which makes a mockery of the NHS free at the point of use. Given that

health boards were supposed to have produced their implementation plans

in September, can you update us on when that 2008 guidance, which

hasn't been implemented and which requires patience to pay privately

if they need nuchal scans, will in fact be implemented? Of course we

expect health boards to follow the clinical guidelines put in place by

NICE, so if she supplies more information I will be happy to

respond. SHE SPEAKS WELSH .

There is a new NICE approved treatment for an age related

degeneration treatment. It will not be available for patients until a

further consideration by the Welsh Government. When will guidance be

issued on a drug that was approved for use in the UK in 2012 and

approved by NICE earlier this year? I should write to her with further

details on that. Can the First Minister make a statement on the

utilisation of women's skills in the Welsh economy? We are taking action

to encourage women to be more enterprising and use their skills in

the Welsh economy. For example, we are supporting a training programme.

This is supporting women to also fill leadership roles in tech savvy

organisations. We know that women play a vital role in our economy.

While there have been welcomed moves over the last few years,

particularly in the public sector, which have enabled some women to

balance work and family responsibilities, there is still a

way to go. What action is the Welsh Government taking to encourage both

public and private organisations to create more flexible opportunities

for women, to ensure that our economy does not lose out on

much-needed talent? I think the member has hit the nail on the head

by saying that no organisation can afford to lose out on any talent. I

will offer the Welsh Government as an example for other organisations

to follow. We have a suite of flexible working authorities --

policies, such as flexible working, part-time working, maternity leave

and foster leave. We also have a carers' policy in place. These

policies have resulted in women making up 15% of the workforce. We

would say to other public sector and private sector organisations that by

being flexible, you can truly accumulate the talent you need to

make your organisation more successful. The business console has

called on businesses to do more to help women return to work and

widening schemes such as flexible working to fully utilise their

skills and the economy. The UK government is working closely with

businesses on extending the right to request flexible working. What

action is the Welsh Government taking to encourage more flexible

working in Wales? I have already given him a suite of measures that

we are taking SA government to Anchorage more women into the

workforce, and is shown in the figures I have just given.

SHE SPEAKS WELSH. Questions five and nine will be

grouped. TRANSLATION: Particularly in the

area of energy of various governments in the area. With the

government accept the concerns of the environment sustainability

committee that there are proposals within the UK government to withdraw

powers on strategic infrastructure from local government in Wales so

that the final decision should be referred back to government

ministers. TRANSLATION: As regards terminology,

I am not saying that the powers be withdrawn from the people of Wales.

I would say they are going to be stolen from the people of Wales,

because the decisions should be taken here with the powers already

here. My view has been put very clearly in the past. I cannot say

that this was discussed last Wednesday, but a number of other

issues were discussed at the time. At the meeting, did the First

Minister have the opportunity to discuss the proposed health levy,

which is asking people on short-term visas to pay for NHS care? Did he

discuss the financial implications for Wales? Yes, I did. It was a

curious conversation. We had a discussion on the UK government's

plans to charge a levy on those who apply for visas who come into the

UK. It was made very clear, and I asked the question, is this levy

being imposed in order to pay for health services? The answer was yes.

I then asked if we could expect that extra pot of money to pay for

services in Wales, and the answer was no. It was clear to me that the

money was only going to be put towards the health service in

England. It was clear it had not been thought out at all. Surely it

makes sense that where a charge is made, when somebody applies for a

Visa for the provision of health services, that that money goes into

a pot that is shared properly between the health services in the

UK. That is not the plan of the UK government at this stage, and we in

Wales will find ourselves in a situation that we do not receive a

share of money that is collected for the delivery of a devolved service.

They need to think again. First Minister, one of the other topics

that was touched on at a joint minister in meeting last Wednesday

was about trade and investment, but it clearly across the whole of the

UK. How do you break out for the Minister -- from the meeting of the

First Minister and the ministers of the UK so that you work together to

promote Wales as an interactive place or inward investment, rather

than be left on sound bites on pieces of paper? We work very

closely with them as it is, and we have several members of staff who

work across the world on this. We cannot replicate the organisation

and we should not try to do that. In organisations where it is

advantageous to have a Welsh presence, we do that. We find that

they have been very helpful to us in getting money to Wales. I have to

say that the reason why we have seen increased exports and a massive

increase in imports is because we have been working hard to promote

Wales across the world. Welsh universities are still suffering

problems in student recruitment because of the Visa system. Was

there any discussion as to the need of Welsh universities, and the fact

their voices had not been taken into account fully? There was discussion

on that and the United Kingdom government's responds was more

students are definitely coming, particularly from India and China,

than ever before. When I was in India last time, they were saying a

completely different story. There was a discussion on this subject. I

have just returned from the British-Irish Parliamentary

Assembly, and last evening, the Irish Minister made a very strong

speech in which he spoke of our potential for a shared future in

energy generation. In that context, what discussions of you had with the

administration in Northern Ireland and Scotland regarding the potential

for a sharing of generating capacity, particularly in the

context of marine renewables? There have been discussions with the

Republic in the past. The difficulty we have is we don't control the

level of certificates, meaning that in Scotland, they are able to offer

more money in subsidy than we can in Wales, despite the fact that

conditions in Scotland are less promising than in Wales. The people

in Wales deserve sufficient control over their own resources, meaning

devolving the subsidy regime. The committee has responsibility and

hopes to address unemployment and encourage economic growth. He will

be aware of the United Kingdom being recognised as the major economic

growth in Europe. Where is Wales on this? We recognise the UK economy is

not in the same position as it was two or three years ago. Germany is

the driver of the European economy still. We could devolve stamp duty,

something which the Prime Minister did not object to. That would have

an effect across the whole of the UK. Council tax is already 19% lower

in Wales than it is in England. The suggestion that devolution would

have an across -- would have an effect across the whole of the UK

was not supported in Scotland. That is an excuse, and we need to see

devolution as recommended and being taken forward by the Prime Minister

and supported by almost every organisation that represents

businesses in Wales. Listen to those organisations who represent the

majority of businesses. Will he outline progress made in developing

the Welsh economy? We support jobs and growth across Wales, and since

devolution, we have seen a greater growth in employment in Wales than

England. One of the witnesses of the Welsh economy is pharmaceuticals and

financial services. What is the boss government doing to promote the

sectors in Wales? We actually do slightly better in pharmaceuticals

than the UK averages. That is one of the reason -- one of the reasons we

have enterprise zones. There are a further 3000 potentially in the

pipeline. By moving forward with enterprise zones, we can make sure

that in the future, when it comes to financial services and ICT, the

average in terms of people employed in Wales is close to or above the UK

average. We all welcome yesterday's announcement of jobs coming into the

Cardiff enterprise zone and 2% cut in interest rates in these zones.

However, it is well-known interest rates are not at Wonga levels but

are nonetheless disproportionately high. What is going on in Finance

Wales, and do you agree we need a root and branch reform of that

institution and organisation to stimulate the economy and get was

moving again? Finance Wales has to be sustainable. That means that

interest rates sometimes had to be charged at a level that businesses

may find this high but is nevertheless lower than what they

would find commercially. We cannot afford to subsidise interest rate

payments. That would put finance was in a position where it could

potentially collapse. -- Finance Wales. Why were interest rates in

enterprise zones 2% lower than the norm? Progress in developing the

economy throughout the south Wales valleys include my own constituency

and that requires good public transport links. It was a great

concern to me to read the report yesterday that electrification of

the Valley line service yesterday that electrification of

government was looking forward to borrowing money to pay for

electrification of rail lines. It was important that was said and

done. The issue here is that if electrification were to be delayed,

train operating companies would have to decide whether to keep the

existing road to stock or take the risk of entering into a lease for

equipment it may not lead -- need. What needs to be done is greater

certainty regarding electrification. If there is a delay to

electrification, they will simply carry on with the old stock and get

more and more inadequate. There is a close link between transport and

economy. Yesterday, the European commission published its map of the

main transport routes that would be able to receive funding for

upgrading over the ensuing period. Not one inch of the railroads or

rail... Do you condemn the Westminster government for failing

to support Wales in this field? They did the same on the rebate on fuel

in rural areas. No part of Wales will benefit from that. We have to

ask the question whether they consider rule Wales tour. Do they

consider we have ports in Wales with strong links with Ireland? I'm

disappointed to see that was not taken into account. What strategy is

the worst government using to reduce carbon monoxide poisoning? We are

working to improve on this issue. We also engage with Fire and rescue

services and energy suppliers to establish what more can be done. On

November the 18th, national carbon monoxide awareness week begins. I am

alarmed to learn one in five gas appliances in Wales are unsafe.

There is a particular problem in Cardiff, where 44% of households are

living with unsafe appliances. What more can the Government do to ensure

landlords of fulfilling their obligations to ensure their tenants

are living in safe accommodation? The gas safety regulations of 1990

would require landlords to check gas appliances at 12 month intervals.

They need to ensure gas safety inspection certificates are

current. There is also the housing health and safety system, giving

guidance on the risks of carbon monoxide poisoning. The majority of

local authorities hold forums, providing information on the dangers

of carbon monoxide poisoning. We are promoting carbon monoxide awareness

week in order to build on the level of knowledge to ensure we can

medicate as much as possible against any future tragedy. On the first of

this month, carbon monoxide alarms will be fitted. Would there be

similar plans in Wales? We have taken a non-regulatory approach. We

have the awareness week coming up. We will continue to monitor the

situation to see whether we need to be more prescriptive. We want to

educate people, first and foremost. If that is not as effective as we

wanted to be, we would consider options.

There we are. That's it from us for First Minister's Questions, but

don't forget that you can see more coverage of the Assembly online from

the BBC Wales Democracy Live pages. Our correspondent, Tomos

Livingstone, has been watching from our Assembly newsroom. Full throttle

defence for the health board's plans? No surprise over this

controversy. He basically ended up saying a variant of, well, these

operations are not being cancelled because they're not been scheduled

in the first place. Everyone health boards to plan in the winter, we

should not be surprised if they have to move things around a little bit.

Whatever the reality, the NHS in Wales have an extra ?150 million to

spend in this financial year in the budget announced last week. Not

enough of that money is going to the local health board to spend on

non-elective surgery. Most observers would agree that health is the Welsh

Government's Achilles heel. All three parties go on the same

subject. It can put pressure on. They haven't managed to do that

effectively, but today might give them a clue that maybe this is

something they should be doing a bit more often and effectively. The

plans for migrant Visa: No plans to be rolled out to the devolved

nations? That's right. If there is to be this levy, migrants should be

consequential. He is suggesting this is not a policy that has been

thought through properly. That's it for today. It's half term

next week so there will be no First Minister's Questions but am.pm will

be back in a fortnight. If you want more Welsh politics before then,

don't forget the Sunday Politics on BBC One Wales at eleven o'clock on

this weekend. As for today, though, from all of us on the programme,

goodbye.