Kezia Dugdale Ask the Leader

Hello and a warm welcome to Ask the Leader.

We're putting the leaders of the SNP, the Conservatives,

Labour and the Liberal Democrats on the spot this week.

They'll each face questions from a live studio

And I'll try to press them for the answers.

If you'd like to join the debate on social media,

We heard from Willie Rennie last night, and we'll speak

to Ruth Davidson and Nicola Sturgeon later this week.

But tonight it's the turn of Kezia Dugdale, leader

And the first question for her comes from Victor Clements.

Without using any cliches or sound bites, what is this election about?

I think it is fundamentally about the future of our country and a

choice of two visions. Ultimately come the Friday after the election

there will only be a Labour government or a Conservative

government, and I really worry about another five years of the Tories and

what they will do, particularly to the most vulnerable and

disadvantaged people in this country. Why? Because I've witnessed

that in the last five years. The reality is, it doesn't have to be

this way. If we ask the richest people in society to pay more tax,

we can raise the revenue we need to invest in public services and the

things we care about, most notably the National Health Service are

making sure we have the best schools in the world once again. That's the

choice at this election, if we put money into public services and

protect them or ignore that and proceed with the second independence

referendum and keep the way things are right now. What do you make of

that? There are some sound bites in that. For me it's an opportunity to

freshen things up a bit, get a new narrative in Scotland, maybe some

new personnel. Things have been going in circles for a few years now

and it would be good to change that. Theresa May said she was calling the

election in light of Brexit. Do you buy that or do you think Kezia

Dugdale has identified what this election is about? The election was

called because of Brexit so I think we do have two respect that and have

a discussion about our relationship with the EU and what it means I

don't think we've had that. We might get to that. I will take another

contribution from the audience and then back with Kezia Dugdale. Given

the brain freed by Jeremy Corbyn and the brain freed by Jeremy Corbyn and

-- brain freeze by Jeremy Corbyn and Diane Abbott, do you still have

confidence in the Labour Party? Yes I do, there are two very clear

choices we can take. I want a Labour Prime Minister and government

because I believe in that manifesto that's being put forward. A serious

and radical plan to transform this country and how it works for. If I

can give you an idea in their manifesto I believe in perhaps above

all others is the idea of a real living wage of ?10 about. Under a

Labour government we could live 5.6 million people that work, go out

every day and earn a wage but don't have enough money to put food on

their table for their family, out of poverty. It's good for business, it

makes sound economic sense and fundamentally good for society as

well. The contributor mentioned Jeremy Corbyn's brain freeze earlier

today. Is that a technical term? Perhaps it is. What is your position

on a second independence referendum? I think it is easy and clear for

everyone to go and look this up on the Labour Party manifesto on our

website. It says we think a second independence referendum is

unnecessary and unwanted. We don't support it and we don't support

Brexit either. Take that and add an additional ?15 billion worth of cuts

on top of that and that's what you would get with independence.

APPLAUSE That opposition you have put outcome

is shared by Jeremy Corbyn as well? Absolutely, categorically. Every

time Jeremy Corbyn has been in Scotland he warned against

independence and the austerity would bring. You can understand why some

people might have found it confusing. This is what Jeremy

Corbyn said today. If the Scottish parliament and Scottish people want

a referendum, they have the right to do that. That was the whole point of

the devolution agreement in the 1990s. I think any referendum should

take place, if there is to be won, after the Brexit negotiations are

concluded. This is the most important thing. It doesn't sound

like a cast-iron guarantee you gave against independence in the second

referendum at all. It's not just me they gave a cast-iron guarantee it's

in the manifesto. That's what he said. It's not made up view of the

Labour Party, that is our experience travelling around the country. Out

of him talking today on this topic. I understand that but all I can do

is point to you the manifesto of the Scottish and UK Labour Party... Use

the leader and you are campaigning to make him Prime Minister of the

UK. He's not saying he would block another independence referendum.

Look at the lines in the manifesto... Yesterday he said he

would open discussions with the government in Scotland on this.

Earlier in the year, in March, he said if the Scottish Parliament

decided they wanted to have a referendum, then that would be wrong

for Westminster to block it. The Scottish Parliament has decided to

have a referendum, is not going to block it, is he? He is. What will he

do to block it? I could tell you a hundred different quotes about the

damage a second independence referendum would do. Am not saying

he hasn't spoken out against it but he is not prepared to block

independence, because he says if the Scottish Parliament once said, they

can have it. He'd prefer they waited until after Brexit but he's not

saying no. What is clearer than a manifesto... Fundamentally different

position. That's not correct. There is one clear position on that is in

the manifesto. People can look it up at home tonight on the Internet and

it has clearly we don't support independence for a second

independence referendum, because the austerity would bring to society.

That's not what he said. It's in the manifesto. It doesn't matter what

the leader of the Labour Party says, only what's written in the

manifesto? You picked the one taken manifesto? You picked the one taken

-- ten second quote. I am pointing to the manifesto that says it's

opposed to a second independence referendum. Lets get some views from

the audience. The gentleman in the back row and then the gentleman at

the front. You and the public don't want it. It is clear the majority of

people don't want their second independence referendum, but what

are you doing to convince people who voted yes in the last referendum to

change their minds? I don't really see a sort of positive vision at the

moment from Labour. Can you pick up on that? Corredera lots of people

around the country frustrated about how this country works and in whose

interest it works well. We can tackle a huge amount of poverty and

inequality we face in this country by using the powers the Scottish

Parliament has. We have tremendous new tax powers and welfare powers

that means no longer can we just turn to London and blame the Tories.

We can choose to do things differently in Scotland. If we have

the political will to do it. What I witnessed in the Scottish Parliament

every day is the SNP the cuts from Westminster and then pass them onto

communities across the country because it helps them to advance

their case for independence. Was asking about how... Specifically

asking how you are seeking to win back yes voters in the 2014

referendum? You are attempting in this interview to set out in

opposition to independence, how does that help? I was about to make the

next point which is I can therefore tell you how we use the powers of

the Scottish Parliament to end Tory austerity. The tax proposals my

party advocate. That is not an issue in this election, it's a UK general

election. Is, it's about, money we spend on our public services. I have

a proposal to increase the amount of child benefit we get in

this country by 2020. I am only able to argue that here tonight because I

can point to how weak you would use the tax powers of the Scottish

Parliament to raise enough money to do that. That would live 30,000

children in Scotland currently living in poverty... That depends on

you getting elected at Holyrood. It's about how much money we spend

on our public services that depends on this general election. The Tories

want to shut down the state and close things off, Labour wants to

invest in the fabric of society. Similar voices from the audience,

this gentleman in the front row? Do you think the comments made by David

Dimbleby about lazy media focusing on negative things from Jeremy

Corbyn during this election, when there are much more fundamental

issues, if you look at the Labour Party manifesto. I will take the

gentleman in the middle here and then come back. I understand your

principally against independence and I understand that and that is fine,

but what I don't understand is why you are completely against even

considering the section 30 warder. If you put yourself in the place of

another piece of legislation put in front of the Scottish Parliament,

that was going to Westminster, basically saying they weren't

considered a piece of legislation. I think the point being made in

relation to Jeremy Corbyn is at least he's going to open up

dialogue, as opposed to putting his head in the sand. I think there's a

strong distinction that needs to be made in terms of principally

opposing something and that section 30 order. That is the way in which

the UK would give Holyrood the power to have another independence

referendum, if it so chose. Are you against giving that power? I will

answer that directly in a second. There's a point to make before we

get to the details of that. That's why we are in the situation where we

are contemplating a second referendum at all. I'm spending

every day at the moment speaking to people on their doorsteps across the

country, and I'm astonished by the number of people who are genuinely

angry that we're being asked to develop and go back to these

arguments of the past again. We were told it was a once-in-a-lifetime,

once in a generation opportunity and we are barely two and a half years

later on. Nicola Sturgeon's justification for trying to argue

for a second referendum is Brexit. She will everything has changed

because of the result of the EU referendum. This is really

important, without enough time in the campaign talking about this. And

trying to get you to address the question asked, about the transfer

of power? I don't think there should be a second independence referendum.

Do you oppose the transfer of power? If they are saying the justification

for a second independence referendum is Europe, they can't then tell you

how an independent Scotland would be in Europe or out of Europe or have a

relationship like Norway does with the EU. I understand you are against

independence and I understand if we were having a referendum we would be

having a debate about the merits or otherwise of independence. Today the

question is about the transfer of power. Does Labour, would they block

the transfer of power Marc Giraud we said we wouldn't countenance any

form of a second independence referendum until the conclusion of

the Brexit negotiations. You might consider it then? No, we

are against a second independence referendum. Widest Jeremy Corbyn say

he would support the will of the Scottish parliament and you, a

member of the Scottish Parliament says he wouldn't? The detail of our

policy in this is in the manifesto. We don't agree with a second

independence referendum. The guy didn't get the answer to the section

30 question. If we get to vote that means there's been a negotiation

already between the Scottish Government and UK Government and

acceptance the referendum will happen, a franchise agreed, a

question agreed. We are so far away from that. I don't want to

countenance that because I'm in the business of trying to stop a second

independence referendum because people tell me time and time again

they don't want it. People who voted yes and no want to leave the

arguments of the past behind us and get on with the day job of fixing

our schools and hospitals, which is long overdue. I understand that and

take it on board but you have answered the question, to be fair.

You said on other forums in relation to this it shouldn't be brought to

Westminster. I don't believe you have answered the question directly.

Myself and Ruth Davidson have said if it was to get that far, where you

are in the position of having a section 30 order, used have agreed

there would be a section 30, of course you'd be talking about a

different situation. You wouldn't block it moderate you can't be...

I'm asking a straight question. It's not a straight question, you don't

know what the independence question would be with franchises, the level

of negotiation... In principle. Is not about in principle. We won't get

any further, the second question from Angela McGinley at home. She

says, if Jeremy Corbyn would rule out a coalition with the SNP? Jeremy

Corbyn has said no deals, no pacts, no coalition with the SNP. No

suggestion of a Progressive Alliance. Why? We don't accept the

SNP are a Progressive party. The truth of that is every time they've

had the powers of the Scottish Parliament to make different choices

from the Tories, for example to raise the money we need to stop cuts

to public services, they've refused to use it. I also don't think there

is anything progressive about trying to break up the United Kingdom. Why?

To redistribute power and wealth. I want to tax the wealth in London on

the south-east of England and share that across the United Kingdom,

where it's needed, including the poorest communities in Scotland. Why

is it OK for Labour to go into the coalition in partnership with the

SNP at the local government level but not at a UK level? In local

government elections we have the single transferable vote system.

That means that the last council elections ten days ago it's not a

single council across Scotland produced an overall majority for one

party. That means that has to be coalitions, deals and pacts between

different political parties. If there was a hung parliament

presumably there would need to be some kind of arrangement? It is very

different. We had 29 authorities when nobody won overall control. The

SNP and Tories refused point blank from the beginning to talk to each

other, so once again it was down to the Labour Party to try and find the

best deal in each of these local authorities where we could stop the

cuts, protect jobs and have powers in place to grow communities and

public services. In a position where you have suspended Labour

councillors for doing deals with the Tories. Not suspended, they broke

the rules of the Labour Party. The rule said on national executive

committee had to approve any deals and they didn't, that's why they

were suspended. The reason we are approaching every council deal now

is on whether we can stop compulsory redundancies and cuts to public

services. I think that is a really admirable approach, to make sure

there are no deals across the country that will lead to job losses

or cuts to education. It is the only Labour Party doing the grown-up

thing. The SNP and Tories are playing petty politics in the last

few weeks over this. The lady in the front row and then the gentleman at

the back. What is the point in voting Labour in Scotland because we

will end up with a Tory government anyway? Locally in Inverclyde where

I have come for the Labour council have amalgamated with the Tories.

That's not true. Yes it is. They have given the court Tory guy...

It's important I address that. I don't want to get bogged down in the

politics of Inverclyde. The party in charge, just as in East

Renfrewshire, the SNP had a minority administration, both situations that

involved a couple of Tories taking seats. If Labour did a deal with the

Tories in Inverclyde, it's very simple. I want to leave that they

are. The gentleman in the back. You mentioned about redundancies. In

North Lanarkshire Council they are cutting classroom assistants. I can

talk to you very specifically about classroom assistants. The reality is

in the Scottish budget which was passed through Parliament in January

a few months ago, there was cut ?170 million out of local services. We

have lost hundreds and thousands of classroom assistants over the last

few years. The SNP and Tory cuts are coming from Westminster. They refuse

to use their own powers to do things differently. You refused to sanction

the minimum wage. We wanted to use the tax powers in the Scottish

Why did you refuse to be delivered through the Smith commission? The

reality is social chapter rights that existed in Brussels are coming

back to Britain. The conversation we need to have is about where they go.

It's not answering the question. It is. Why did you refuse to be

devolved from Westminster to the Scottish Parliament? Brexit forced

upon us. I think there's an argument for devolving those powers to the

Scottish Parliament. You're wrong. What she's saying she has changed

her position as a result of Brexit. I would devolve employment law from

Westminster to the Scottish parliament. Powers from Westminster

coming to the Scottish Parliament and other powers from Westminster to

the Scottish powers so we could use them and make better and more

progressive decisions. I would like to see a higher national minimum

wage in Scotland. What I don't want Scotland to be able to do is to

undercut a minimum wage across the rest of the UK because then they get

into competition in a race to the bottom. We need a minimum standard

across the whole of the UK and I would like the Scottish Parliament

have the power to top up that wage. We can do it if we give that power.

We started talking about coalitions and deals and partnerships. Holyrood

powers. Just to remind you, this is a UK general election, a Westminster

election. There is one area in which you, the

Scottish Labour Party and the SNP agree and that is the nuclear

deterrent. As John Schofield points out, the Labour UK manifesto backs

renewing Trident. The Scottish Labour manifesto does not. He asks,

what reassurances can you give that the Scottish view will prevail? It

is very clear with the Scottish and Labour manifestos we have produced

that we support the renewal of Trident and work towards

multilateral disarmament. We had a democratic process 18 months ago in

the Scottish Labour Party. As the Scottish party we had a big debate

at conference and concluded we wanted to oppose the renewal of

Trident and feedback into the UK wide defence review. The democratic

decision of the UK Labour Party is to renew Trident and that is

reflected in the manifesto. If you have one or more Scottish Labour MPs

at Westminster after this election, they will tow that particular line,

no matter what the personal opinion is. Every Labour MP elected on the

8th of June is standing on the manifesto and they would be expected

to vote for the entire contents. Interesting to bring in members of

the audience on our next question, which comes from Sarah Coutts. What

guarantees do you offer adults with disabilities, including myself, who

are subject to austerities cuts and cuts in benefits? First and

foremost, the Labour Party has plans to stop austerity altogether. Would

put a penny on the rate of income tax which means it would raise

enough money to prevent further cuts to public services. What does that

mean to your life or people who have learning disabilities? It means

protecting things like additional support in school for young people

with additional needs for the icy that falling away all the time. That

is a devolved thing. You are asking what the Labour Party stands for in

that regard. When it comes to Social Security and the benefits system and

the welfare state, what we would like to see if more money going into

the Social Security system. Jeremy Corbyn has a plan for ?10 billion

more to going into the Social Security system over the next five

years we can make sure people with additional needs have all the

support they require to live dignified lives and do everything

they want to fulfil every aspect of their potential. Your manifesto says

Labour will repeal many of the cuts in Social Security support to

disabled people. Which ones will it not? Obviously, there is a huge

number of different aspects to the Social Security system. We would

like to see the overall benefits bill come down. One way to do that

is by having a real living wage meaning work pays more. Having

benefits to top up wages. What we want to ensure its people with

disabilities have every element of support they need. We have seen an

attack on the mobility allowance right now goes a bit is giving

disabled people transport support they need. That is one example of

welfare support. You would reverse that one. Which ones would you not

reverse question that it says she would repeal many but not all. The

options are not just to reverse or appeal you can reform the benefits

as well. We have said we would reform Universal Credit, for

example. The Tories want to cap that all limited when there is a family

with more than two children. We would make that reform. We need to

make sure the overall Social Security system is funded properly

so that people who want to work can access work and the work is paid for

properly. The idea that we built, as the Labour Party, the welfare state,

supports them to live their lives in a way that allows them to live with

dignity and respect. Can I just come back to the question first of all.

What did you make of that answer? I don't want the Tories cutting our

benefits. What benefits are you in receipt of that you are worried

about or have already lost out on? Oh, I can't remember. Sorry. But you

are concerned. I am concerned. Thank you very much. My car as well, my

motor ability car. That is something you currently benefit from? At the

moment yes. The leather decision appears to be to restore that. I am

here with my mum. You thing you would support people back into it,

specifically people with disabilities. How does that come

into fruition? From my perspective, what is the support you are going to

give when you have young people who maybe cannot travel independently,

cannot drive? What employment opportunities are there? It will be

a real risk and a leap of faith for people with special needs to be a

valuable member in a workforce. This is wordplay. There is nothing

concrete that says to me that by voting for a Labour government in

Scotland and UK wide you would then be able to increase employment

opportunities. In the past, the Labour government had a great deal

of success in this and supported workplaces. We had places like the

engine shed in Edinburgh. You could use public money to create

employment opportunities for people with disabilities. What happened

since we got Tory austerity, as much as the public money helped to

support the jobs and that was stripped away and were left as

private companies to operate in the ordinary marketplace and many of

them failed and many of the jobs for people with disability disappeared

with it. The Labour approach is to provide public funding for supported

employment places that people with disabilities can access work and

gain the skills they want. That is something we would see a return of

if there were a Labour government. That is something we will never see

with the Tories. On the wider welfare system, as I understand it,

according to the resolution foundation, the Conservatives plans

are to reduce spending on benefits by a further 5 billion, on benefits

and welfare. You have pledged to give an additional 2 billion and

therefore set to fits of those cuts. What are you not prepared to do?

When it comes to the freeze on working age benefits, does that have

to stay? It is very difficult to give a clear-cut answer to that.

What I said at the start of every government of every party wants to

see the benefits bill come down. You want work to pay so you do not have

to top up in work benefits. Until we have a living wage of ?10 an hour,

it is hard to see what additional money you would need in order to

guarantee all the different aspects in the welfare system. It is about

getting the balance right. You need to make sure workplace. Far too many

people are in temporary jobs. We need to improve on employment rights

and workers' rights to insure a lot of the incomes would be more secure

in the future. A ?10 living wage and a reform of Universal Credit and

better reform of people with disabilities. When it comes to

working age benefits, is it the Labour Party policy to keep that in

place? We want to end the freeze. We want to. It is very difficult to put

clear-cut numbers on that until you can see the difference a ?10 living

wage with me. Only when you assess how many different people needs that

top up. It would change every single day for the that someone takes a

job. It is difficult but a figure on that. There are only about three

minutes left in the programme. Last question on wrecks it. It comes from

Lewis Gray. Do you think Jeremy Corbyn could negotiate on behalf of

Britain in the Brexit negotiations? Jeremy Corbyn and set here Starmer

QC would be a fantastic team to negotiate. They have said what they

would do on day one. First of guarantee EU National spare rights.

They are basically living in fear, worried about whether they can stay

here in Scotland. We would also scrap any plans for the great repeal

act. That is what the Tories want to do and instead have a much greater

focus on jobs and workers' rights. We need to be able to have tariff

free access to the single market and that means keeping a lot of the

regulations the same with European neighbours. You were committed last

year, absolutely committed, to EU and single market and supportive of

SNP efforts to retain both now you talk about access to the single

market. When did you change your position on that? Nothing has

changed in that regard. It is not just down to one party or one

government. We have to negotiate with the other 27 nations in Europe.

It is down to them whether we get tariff free access to the single

market. We are also realistic. It is unrealistic of the SNP to promise

the world when they cannot explain to us what the position on

membership of the European Union is. Lady in the front row and gentlemen

behind. Would a Labour government move away from a hard Brexit to a

soft Brexit? Do you mean staying in the single market or something else?

It means staying within the market. We want tariff free access to the

singer market. That is how we can protect jobs and workers' rights. --

the single market. We want to respect the result of the referendum

which is that we are leaving the EU. When was your support towards

Corbyn? I will fight every day at my life for a Labour government and the

Labour prime ministers. That is what we will need to transform this

country. No matter who is in charge. I want a Labour government and a

Labour Prime Minister. He is the leader of the liver party and I am

immensely proud of the platform for government he stands on. At that

time you said you did not think Jeremy could unite the party and

lead Labour into government. He cannot commit you said, appeal to a

broad enough sector of voters. Has that changed? People in this country

seem to think he can do the job. There are eight days left to get the

Tories out. Jeremy Corbyn has been appearing on the other channel, on

the One Show. His wife has been asked what he is not good at. What

do you think he said? Probably cutting the garden hedge outside his

front door, which you always say on the news. It was housework actually.

I don't know if there was any discussion of girl jobs and boy jobs

but he is allergic to that kind of chat. Thank you very much was

spending time with us and taking questions from me and the audience.

Ask The Leader will be back, not tomorrow, but on Thursday night with

Ruth Davidson and Nicola