Live With Mishal Husain BBC Election Debate

Eight days remain before we, the electorate, make our choice,

and tonight, representatives of seven parties are here

to make their pitch to our audience here, and to you at home.

Welcome to the BBC Election Debate 2017.

Good evening and welcome to Senate House at the University

of Cambridge for 90 minutes of question, answer and live debate.

We invited the leaders of seven parties to take part, some are here,

others chose to send senior representatives. Those are here

are... Tim Farron, leader of

the Liberal Democrats. Jeremy Corbyn, leader

of the Labour Party. Caroline Lucas, co-leader

of the Green Party. The leader of Plaid

Cymru, Leanne Wood. For the Conservatives,

the Home Secretary, Amber Rudd. And Angus Robertson,

the deputy leader of the SNP. Our audience was selected

by a leading opinion polling company to ensure they are representative

of the country as whole. They support different parties,

some are undecided voters, and they are also equally split

along the lines of last year's EU referendum -

half voted to leave the EU And if you'd like to join

in the debate at home, you can do so on Twitter

using the hashtag #BBCdebate. We start with opening statements

from all seven politicians, the order of which was decided

by the drawing of lots. First, the leader of

Plaid Cymru, Leanne Wood. Theresa May called this

election because she's She won't turn up to these debates,

because her campaign Unlike Theresa May, I am not afraid

to defend my policies, Plaid Cymru exists to defend

and build up our country. In Wales, it is Plaid Cymru that

stands for fairness and equality for everyone who chooses to call

Wales home. For a hundred years,

Wales has voted Labour. Labour in Wales have their own

manifesto and are airbrushing When Plaid Cymru has tried to ban

zero-hours contracts, and to stop the bedroom tax,

Welsh Labour has voted against us. It's time we stopped doing

what we have always done. Elect a strong team

of Plaid Cymru MPs to fight Caroline Lucas for the

Green Party is next. On June 8th you can

lay the foundations Imagine this - a country that leads

the world in clean energy, A country that spends its money

on hospitals and schools, A country that welcomes child

refugees, not blocks A country that's open

to its neighbours, not A country that celebrates

diversity, not fears it. A country that's friends

with the good guys, not the climate A country that cares

for those with dementia, We've shown time and again,

you don't need the keys to Number 10 On June 8th let's unlock

that door together. Fearless Green MPs in

opposition to the Tories. Independent Green MPs holding

Labour's feet to the fire. Pioneering Green MPs to make our

economy fit for tomorrow. We decide the future

by what we do now. In eight days you have a vital

choice to make about who you want Do you want Theresa May and her

team, a team that has a plan? It is one that doesn't

duck the hard choices But it is also a plan that

will build on the success Success in cutting the deficit,

stabilising the economy, It will build on our commitment

to having a country There are seven of us here tonight,

and I am sure you will hear plenty of bluff, bravado and tempting,

shiny election promises. But the only question

to consider is who should be in Number 10 to steer Britain

to a brighter future? Jeremy Corbyn, with his money-tree

wish list manifesto Or Theresa May, and her record

of delivery, with her clear plan for Brexit, and the strong team

behind her who can make sure the country gets

to that brighter future. Tonight I'm here to debate

the future of our country. The question in this election

is whether we want a country The state of our NHS,

our children's schools, social care for older people,

our young people saddled with debt, none of that is

remotely strong or stable. And now the Conservatives want five

more years of cuts to our vital public services to fund tax

hand-outs for the wealthy few. Labour will make very

different choices. There will be no tax rises

for 95% of taxpayers. But we will ask those with the most

to contribute a bit more so no one is held back

from achieving their potential. On June 8th you have a choice -

more cuts in services and living standards with the Conservatives,

or vote Labour to transform Britain Ukip will always put the interests

of British people first. Whether that is prioritising our NHS

and social care over a bloated and ineffective foreign aid

programme, or protecting those who are most at risk

from wage compression because of mass

unskilled immigration. Ukip will always stand up for those

who have been let down and left A government's job,

first and foremost, Our police, our intelligence

services, our armed forces and our border force must be given

the tools and resources they need They must, without fear or favour,

ensure that our way of life, our I believe in our great country,

I believe in British values As you will see tonight,

Ukip believes in Britain. The deputy leader of

the SNP, Angus Robertson. This election is about the kind

of country we want to be. Now, more than ever,

Scotland needs strong SNP And SNP MPs will work

with others to promote fairness A vote for the SNP is a vote

against Tory cuts that will harm our public services

and push many more hard-working It's a vote for jobs

and against an extreme Brexit which will put jobs and living

standards at risk. It's a vote to reinforce the right

of the people of Scotland We can't afford a Tory government

which thinks it can do anything it And we can't give Theresa May

a blank cheque to pursue any kind In Scotland the SNP is the only

party strong enough Vote SNP for a strong voice

for Scotland at Westminster. That voice is needed

now more than ever. And finally for our opening

statements, the leader of the Liberal Democrats,

Tim Farron. Where do you think

Theresa May is tonight? She might be out there sizing

up your house to pay And why do you think

she called this election? She wants five years

as Prime Minister and she thinks you'll give it to her,

no questions asked. Even if she brings in a dementia

tax, sacks your kids' teachers and nicks their lunches

while she's at it. We can all agree that's

a rubbish offer. Look, I know we don't

all agree on Brexit, but she's off to negotiate a deal

for you, for me, for all of us. Imagine if it's a bad deal,

I mean dementia tax bad. I know that to persuade you to vote

Liberal Democrat I have to give I'll rescue the NHS and social care

by putting a penny on income tax. I'll give you the final say

on the Brexit deal, not Theresa May. Whatever power you give me,

I'll use it to stop her Thank you all for those opening

statements. APPLAUSE Let's go straight to our first

question and it comes from Nicola. I work, I paid my taxes, I have not

had a pay rise in years, I lived alone and see all my bills going up.

Working people are the backbone of this country. How you going to help

people like me? Thank you, Nicola. Amber Rudd, your party has decided

over recent living standards. Thank you for the question. My party has

presided over making sure that people on lower wages are able to

keep more of the wages they earn, must take it within context, since

2009 we had one of the largest peacetime recessions and we have

managed to rebuild the economy since then but my party is focused on

making sure we help people like Nicola which is why we will continue

to take people out of taxes, making sure the amount you earn above all

you have to pay tax rises to ?12,500. And we are going to live

within our means. Some of the offers you will hear tonight are fanciful.

In order to have a strong economy to support Nicola and others we have to

have that strong economy and the way to make sure we have it is to have a

strong negotiating position as we go into leaving the European Union. You

will hear me say that a lot tonight because the worst outcome would be

if we are not able to negotiate a strong deal. The question is on

living standards, Jeremy Corbyn. Living standards have fallen in the

past seven years under the coalition government with the Liberal

Democrats and Tories and now the Tory government itself. 6 million

people are earning less than a living wage, a million are on zero

hours contracts, public sector workers have had a pay cut of at

least 14% over the past seven years. We will lift the pay gap on the

public sector can introduce a living wage of ?10 per hour by 2020 and we

will not punish workers who want to take their rights to a tribunal

where they have to pay charges and fees. We will abolish that. Our

determination is that those who produce the wealth of this country

should benefit from it. What we have seen is a massive gap growing

between those who work and those at the top and it is time to cut the

gap. That has to change and we will ensure it does. Angus Robertson, how

would you help working people? The first thing I would say is that

governments have choices about the kind of economic policy they pursue

Andy Drury is now alone in government and previously with the

Liberal Democrats -- and the Tories now alone in the as there is the

measures which it those were the lowest income is the most and the

time has come for that to end. Politicians can make different

choices and every SNP MP elected to Westminster will stand up for those

different choices and an end to austerity. It is about choices, the

Tories have chosen to support those who are wealthiest in society and we

don't agree. We think those who have the most should pay a bit more and

that is why we are in favour of the highest earners seeing their taxes

rising from 45 to 50p. We are also supportive of looking at changes to

the pay restraint we have seen in these times of austerity. That will

happen in Scotland under an SNP government and we will present the

UK Government to do the same. Lastly I want to make this point, some of

those people on the lowest incomes have been massively hit by welfare

cuts. I think the time has come to end punishing disabled people, end

bedroom tax... APPLAUSE And leaving people with the lowest

incomes with too little to pay for the essentials. Before we move on,

what Amber Rudd to respond. On the direct point of payments to help

people who are disabled, we are a party who will always support those

in most need and the welfare bill for helping people with his

abilities have gone up 7 billion in the past seven years and is now at

50 billion. We will always provide a safety net where needed. You try to

take personal people payment away from people with disabilities and

entered yourself around on that. You are not credible on the issue. There

is no extra payment you don't want to add to the no tax you don't want

to rise but the fact is we have to concentrate our resources on the

people who need it most and we had to stop thinking, as you do, that

there is a money tree. You have to be accountable. I would like to

bring in some of the other parties, Tim Farron, you have argued for this

election being about providing a credible opposition, which of these

parties has the right economic formula for living standards? Down

to the question, economical is about people, not figures, it is about the

experience of people and now they can't afford to feed their children

and look after them. Economics is about people, it is not

about figures. Like many people come I have known in my life what it is

like not to be able to pay for bills and it matters to me that we build a

country which looks after our children. A strong welfare state is

essential. I have been helping two people in my constituency with their

payments in the last month. Both of them were chief executive is of

different companies in the not too distant past. Everybody needs to

remember that everyone of us is only one or two steps from being in need

at any given time. And just to answer the question specifically,

what will we do? We will end the benefit freeze. Since 2008, the

crash public sector workers have probably had to bear the brunt of

those cuts, whether it be nurses, doctors, social care workers. But

you also need to be able to support people, so they can have the ability

to choose, and that is why we will invest that money, pretty much 6

billion, into childcare for the under two-year-olds, to make sure

parents have got the ability to go out to work. I am going to stop you

come Tim Farron, Caroline Lucas? I want to come back to Nicola's point,

because I think the situation you describe is something which people

feel up and down this country. For people to say that Discover and

cares for the most vulnerable people I think is downright insulting. I

have had angry letters from a man who cannot get into the surgery

because he has not got his mobility scooter and he has not headed for

six weeks because the DLA payment has been delayed. He is just stuck.

I think there is just simply not a recognition from this government

about the pain that it is inflicting on some of the most vulnerable

people in our society. And it is a matter of political choices, because

we are the fifth biggest economy in the world. And yet we are a country

that has 4 million children living in poverty, we are a country where a

million food parcels were given out last year. That is just simply quite

wrong. The Green Party is quite upfront about saying that we will

reverse the changes in corporation tax, which have allowed Theresa May

to come up with this vision of the country as some kind of bargain

basement tax Haven. What about the just about managings? I would add to

that a long list of criticisms, that there are now 800,000 fewer workless

households. We have focused on making sure that people can get into

work. But people are going to food banks. We need to have a system...

You cannot ignore the fact that over the past seven years, another 3

million people have got into jobs. You attacked the reductions in

corporation tax, you talk about corporations, I talk about jobs.

What we need to have is the investment to make sure that people

can get those jobs, so that they can have the dignity of a job, so they

can feed their family and work. Two people have not spoken yet. Leanne

Wood, and then Paul Nuttall. I would like to know what kind of jobs these

extra people are in. We know that the number of people on zero-hours

contracts has gone through the roof. My party has tried in Wales on seven

different occasions to abolish zero-hours contracts, only to be

voted down by the Labour government in Wales. It is a scandal that those

people, especially in the public sector, who are on the highest

wages, get pay increases, politicians have had Pete increases,

yet those at the bottom have been squeezed. And it's immigrants, then,

who are scapegoated and blamed for those wages being squeezed, when it

is Tory austerity that is the real cause of that problem. Paul Nuttall?

Well, wages have stagnated over the past ten years, there's a number of

reasons for that. Firstly there was the economic crash, secondly we had

an oversupply of Labour. And that is certainly the case in working class

communities, the Bank of England have admitted that this is the case.

What we need is to put more money in people's pockets, and you don't do

that through the politics of jealousy or spite. What we need to

do is to reduce taxation. We proposed that we would scrap the 18

on fuel bills and do away with Green levels levies which will put ?170

back in your pockets per annum. We would also raise the personal

allowance to ?13,500, because we believe that people know how to

spend their money better than any government. As for corporation tax,

we want to see corporation tax reduced, not raised, because if we

raise it, companies will leave this country. If they leave this country,

what happens then? There's less jobs, less taxation, and people are

out of work. They're starting to leave because of Brexit. Politics of

jealousy does not work. Jeremy Corbyn, I would like you to respond

to the point about corporation tax? Paul, that is complete nonsense, if

I may say so. Our corporation tax has been consistently lowered by

this government with the support of the Liberal Democrats since 2010.

What we're proposing is to put it up during the lifetime the Parliament

to 26%. Let me finish, that is less than it was in 2010. And if you put

that corporation tax up, you are then in a position to deal with the

crisis in social care, the crisis in our NHS, properly fund our schools

and not ask headteachers to collect the parents to pay the teachers. And

I would say this, Amber Rudd seems so confident that this is a country

at ease with itself - have you been to a food bank, have you seen people

sleeping around our stations...? Have you seen the level of poverty

that exists because of your government's conscious decisions on

food banks? Of course I have seen food banks. The way not to have

people using food banks is to make sure... I am sorry, if you want to

take us back to the 1970s, then it will be bad for the economy. Paul...

I would like you to answer a specific point, you have made many

spending commitments in your manifesto, they are going to cost a

lot of money, you would also add to borrowing - how does that create the

economy which enables more to be spent on working people who need it?

What we have had is a government for the past seven years which has

borrowed more, run up a greater deficit and cut public services at

the same time, and at the lowest growth rate of any industrial

country. The system they have is not working. What we're proposing is to

raise corporation tax, yes, in order to make the funding commitments that

I have already outlined. But it is also to establish a serious national

investment bank to investing in info structure all around this country,

so we do get a sustainable, growing economy. We cannot go on giving

money away to the very rich. This covenant is proposing another 60

billion in tax giveaways in the next five years. Instead, I say, tell it

about and invest in the future of all of our people. Paul Nuttall, and

then Tim Farron... Businesses will leave this country, and if they do

that... They're leaving already, because of Brexit, Paul. If they

leave, there is less tax, less jobs and more people will be unemployed -

that is what you will get if you vote Labour. We need to be

compassionate to the individual, but we also have to get the big choices

right. The other front in the room. The fact is, we need to remain in

the single market, or else we will not be able to afford the National

Health Service, social care or any of the support we are talking about.

And if Jeremy cared about having enough money to spend on those who

needed it the most, to raise living standards, he would not have trooped

through the lobbies with the Conservatives and Ukip to trigger

Article 50 and to make Britain poorer. I'm sure there will be an

opportunity to debate that but I have to take on some of Jeremy

Corbyn's fantasy economics. He has this money tree wish list in his

manifesto. It is very easy to think about how you spend money, it is

much harder to think about how you raise money. His proposals don't add

up. He thinks it is some sort of game of Monopoly, perhaps, where you

ask the bank for the money to buy the electrics and the railways and

the gasworks. Well, it's not like that, Jeremy. This is people's hard

earned money. We will protect that, we won't roll the dice. Thank you

for all your responses to this question. It is time for us to move

on to our second question of the evening. Once we have left the EU,

how will your party ensure we have the workers and the skills we need

to make the UK a success? How will we have the workers and skills we

need to make the UK is access after Brexit, Paul Nuttall? Very easily,

because we will be controlling our own borders. When people voted out

last year, they did not just vote to control borders, they voted to

reduce immigration as well. In the last week, it was announced that a

city the size of Hull came to this country... That was not on the

ballot paper, though. Hold on, a city the size of Hull came to this

country, net. That will be Birmingham over five years. It is

unsustainable. We need to reduce immigration, and we do it by having

an Australian, points-based system. So, if you've got the skills that

this country needs, yes, please come here and work. But beyond that, we

have to get the population under control, because on the route be on,

we will have a population of 80 million by the middle of this

century. You just think what will happen, there will have to be a huge

school building programme, new hospitals, new motorways, a new rail

network, new houses. We are already having to build a house every seven

minutes to keep up. Reduce immigration, have a points-based

system, it will be good for the economy and good for... Last week's,

a middle-aged Asian man on his way home from work was abused and called

racist names and called a terrorist. He had just finish 50 hours saving

lives after the Manchester bombing. He was a doctor. That is what

happens when you demonise immigrants. That is what happens

when the language... Does immigration cause pressures which

need to be met, do we need to invest more in infrastructure, to make sure

we invest the taxes that immigrants pay to make sure that we provide for

everybody? Of course, yes. I'm afraid what the Prime Minister has

done for the past seven years is to set completely barmy, bogus targets

which she fails to meet every single year. Do we need that? No, we don't.

We need a policy which is good for our businesses, our farmers, our

health service, a wise immigration policy, not a Conservative

immigration policy written to appease Ukip. Immigration is an

important part of strengthening our country and supplying additional

support that we need to our schools. But we have to make sure we have an

immigration policy that we can control. We have said, the

Conservative Party and the government, that we will continue to

reduce those numbers. As we leave the European Union, we will have

more chance to do that and to be able to decide who comes to this

country. But be in no doubt, we will always have an immigration policy

which although it continues to reduce, WILL attract the brightest

and the best and will make sure that people can come here to support our

economy and develop businesses here. Jeremy Corbyn, you were talking

about immigration today, and you said you would make no false

promises about cutting it - does that mean you will make no promises

at all on cutting immigration? What will happen on leaving the European

Union is that we cease to be members of the single market, and therefore,

free movement ends. What we are saying is that every EU national who

is resident in this country must be given permanent rights of residence

here and not blocked. Secondly, that we will ask, as we've already done

in opposition, that all European governance do the same for British

nationals living there. And that we recognise the massive contribution

made by people who have come to this country from all over the world, as

well as from Europe, to our health service, education, industries and

universities. My point was, would you make any promise on cutting

immigration? What I would say is, we will have a fair and managed

migration system which is based on the needs of this country and the

rights of family reunion. What is fair? Fair is where you bring people

in when they have got jobs to come to or it is necessary for them to be

working here, or we need them to assist in the economy. That is

fairer. Would immigration go up, Jeremy? It is also important that we

maintain the links of universities with counterparts across Europe. Is

it going to go up? This government under Theresa May sent lorries

around Britain telling people to go home you have campaigned for more

immigration to Wales... No, I haven't. To get Wales the workers it

needs. In your manifesto, did you not say that he wanted a visa system

for Wales so that you could attract the workers you need, which means

you don't feel Wales has the workers it needs at the moment?

We're quite happy with the workers we've got. Why do we need a visa

system to attract more workers to Wales? Because Theresa May is going

to end freedom of movement and that brings risks to the Welsh economy.

So you may need more workers to come in the future? We want to keep the

ones we've got but can I just make the point? How does that square with

most people in Wales voting for Brexit? Ukip has claimed that people

voted to leave the EU and in so doing they also voted to curb

immigration but I don't think we can read that into the result. Some

people may well have voted to curb immigration but there was only one

question on the ballot paper and immigration wasn't on it. I'm afraid

that Ukip keep using this issue. They want to whip up peoples hatred,

division and fear and that is why they talk immigration. APPLAUSE

Stop lying about immigration. This isn't about immigrants, it is about

government policy and the government have got the wrong time and again.

Amber, her party have served in three manifestos now they will get

immigration down to the tens of thousands. It is Jackanory, it is

not going to happen. Jeremy will give you a figure because

immigration will go up under Labour. Only one party here tonight... It is

what the majority of what British people want. Poll after poll shows

it. You are looking at ?1 billion additional cost to our National

Health Service because the government's bundling of the deal

with Europe means you will have thousands... Angus Robertson. I

think this debate shames and demeans us all. I don't think there is

anyone in this room or anybody watching this debate from Cornwall

to Caithness who does not understand the positive contribution that

people have made to this land who have come from the rest of Europe

and the world. APPLAUSE Demonising those people is totally

unacceptable. Scotland's experience, Scotland's problem has never been

immigration. It may well be the case that a different realities in

different parts of the UK, I accept that but in Scotland we value the

contribution of people who have come to our land, we value refugees who

sought refuge in our country and there is much more we should do to

make sure people are able to stay in Scotland but we should also be able

to protect people who've come there. The first thing I would do is make

sure that every EU citizen who is here is guaranteed the right to

stage. It is totally unacceptable that this Tory government has not

been prepared to give them the guaranteed, the promise they can

stay. That is totally unacceptable. APPLAUSE

If it is perfectly possible to have different immigration policies in

countries such as Canada and Australia who have different

policies between different provinces in the country, it is possible to

have different immigration rules for different parts of the UK and that

is what the SNP supports. And the question about the upper limit? The

problem is we are losing people, I don't know how money people saw the

report last week, but the issue is people is leaving. Caroline Lucas.

On the subject of the right of EU nationals who have made their lives

here in good faith to stay here, it is unbelievably cruel to be using

those lives as bargaining chips in these negotiations. The government

could be saying that they should stay. I want to be able to make the

case proudly for free movement. I think free movement have been the

most wonderful gift, the ability to travel and work and live and love in

27 other member state and for them to come here and I have to say I'm

sorry the Labour Party now does not support that. I think our country is

enriched by people coming from other countries, the put in I Love

is a confident, outward facing country recognising that migration

makes a massive positive contribution. Right now we have

people like Paul and his hate filled rhetoric who make people feel as if

the reason they can't get a leg of the housing ladder of Ocon the AGP

is because of migration and it is not. -- or they can't see their GP.

It is because the government has not invested enough in public services.

If you are trying to see someone in the NHS, you're more likely to find

a migrant treating you as a doctor than ahead of you in the queue.

Jeremy Corbyn, could you respond to the point on giving up on free

movement. The problems we have of exploitation of workers in this

country and groups of workers who have been brought in wholesale from

lower paid economies in Central Europe is a serious one. Those

people are themselves grossly exploited, brought here to undermine

existing pay and working conditions... Can I finish? That

will make this situation worse in any community where that takes

place. I was demanding that Barbara Dee Kelly -- proper medallist and

while we were still in the EU before the referendum and that strategy has

to stop. There has to be managed migration that is not designed to

undermine working conditions... A lot of people making a great deal of

money from property of those people. I'm astonished that the Labour Party

is now a pink Ukip in using the same arguments about immigration. The

single European market matters to all others -- that Labour is aping

Ukip. Why don't you stand up to the Tories and say, we want to remain

within the single market because it matters to jobs of people from

Britain and the rest of Europe who live in the UK? What we have is

rhetoric around here about helping those EU nationals who live here and

raise their children here and work in universities like this and served

in our hospitals but when it came to the vote in the House of Commons the

Labour Party did not show up. In the Lord be instructed their people to

vote against the Lib Dem amendment which would have guaranteed the

right to remain for EU citizens. I would like Amber Rudd to respond to

the point that you are using those people as bargaining chips?

Absolutely untrue, what we are concerned about are the 4 million, 3

million here and 1 million UK citizens in the rest of the European

Union. We need to make sure we get a deal to protect all their rights. As

this squabbling was going on I was thinking about the 9th of June and

the different leaders who have had discussions about so-called

progressive alliance and I was thinking how chaotic it would be if

they got together and formed a coalition and tried to run the

government. SHOUT OVER EACH OTHER. What is chaotic is you and Ukip

aren't in arm. You stood on a platform about a year ago saying

that you thought that Britain would be safer, stronger and better off in

the EU. Were you wrong then or are you wrong now? We can't trust you on

this. You are hitching your wagon to Ukip. What I'm consistent about it

accepting the result of a referendum. I know that for Angus

there is no referendum result he will accept, everybody seems to be

wrong to him but the fact is we had this debate last year, there has

been the result and I want to make sure that we get the right result

and under Theresa May we will negotiate... We are out of time on

this particular question, thank you very much. It is time for our next

question from Rhiannon. All the parties have promised more money for

public services, where is it coming from and how can we trust that your

plans will add up? Thank you, promises of money, where does it

come from and how can we trust your plans? Caroline Lucas. The first

thing to say is that we would stop spending money on things we simply

don't think are a good use of it and Trident nuclear weapons would come

close to the top of that list. APPLAUSE

We will scrap nuclear weapons which would give is around 130 billion

minimum. We would not be building HS2, we would not go ahead and give

massive subsidies to Hinckley nuclear-power station. You stop

wasting money firstly and then you have the principle that says that

those people who have more money, the broadest shoulders, should be

ebbing more into the system. What we need to be doing is levying things

like a wealth tax, looking at issues around corporation tax. It is wrong

we are going for this bargain basement tax haven, we should be

going for a company where corporations pay their tax but the

bottom line is that this country is not a poor country. The money is in

the wrong hands, there is vast inequality in the country. If we

were to sort out that problem, we would have a much better chance of

ensuring that public services are properly paid for. Take the NHS, we

put far less into the NHS than most other countries of similar GDP. We

don't put that money in the public services and therefore we don't have

the world-class public services we demand. The Greens are clear that

for us public services should be in public hands, not having the private

sector in them. Thank you, I will to Amber Rudd. The question is about

trusting plans and in your manifesto there was a notable absence of

costings. I would say in answer to the question to judge us on our

record. LAUGHTER We have cut the deficit, we have

reduced taxes for the lowest paid and we have made sure we have

continued to invest in the NHS. Another ?8 billion a year by the end

of this Parliament. The only way we can have that money to invest in our

public services, and we know the importance of them, our schools and

hospitals, is to make sure we have a strong economy which does sometimes

means making difficult choices, the sort of choices that no other party

here is prepared to face up to. We have to make sure we control our

spending and have that strong economy but the sure way to bust our

economy and lead to danger is to have false negotiations with the EU,

the sort of leader like Jeremy Corbyn support of perhaps by the

people here who would create confusion when trying to deal with

the 27 governments. Jeremy Corbyn. I'm very clear we will negotiate

tariff free trade access to European market so our monitoring industry

jobs are defended and supported and we have a growing economy as a

result. We have made a number of very clear spending commitment in

our manifesto. They are set out in the spending plans and also in the

manifest itself. The Conservative government has made a lot of

choices, we know what they are, our schools are underfunded, hospitals

overcrowded, students are saddled with debt, a growing housing crisis

and at every turn their answer is to further reduce corporation tax and

further reduce tax for the very wealthiest in society. Are you sure

your plans add up? It was only yesterday you could not remember the

cost of one of your policies. I am absolutely sure they add up, I'm

clear about this. For example, if we want to remove university tuition

fees, and we do, so our students are not saddled with that, and restore

maintenance grant so all children, whatever background, as a child of

going to university, cost ?11 billion. I think that is money well

spent and the kind of investment this country needs. APPLAUSE

Why should a child's future be determined by the postcode in which

they are born? That is why we are determined to bring in three

preschool 30 hours a week from two to four-year-olds and make sure that

every primary school child gets a free lunch every day so they can

learn while they are properly fed. Jeremy, you have a Labour government

in Wales and they are not doing those things. It is charging

students to go to university. Why are you saying this here when you

have an example of the Labour government... This is a UK

Government policy. It is going to be UK policy and it will mean that the

money is made available there by increasing tax, not for the first

95% of the population, but the other 5%, to ensure the funds are there.

Because I am fed up with the idea that so many children growing up in

the poorer households and communities don't get the same

chances as others to get to university and get on in life. They

lose and we all lose because we lose those brilliant people to our

communities. Angus Robertson, your manifesto also included major

spending promises an extra ?180 billion for public services UK wide.

It is actually 128 alien to the different sources are rescheduling

the UK finances and 10 billion in funds to be raised in taxation

largely through the 45 to 50p tax change -- 128 billion. Can I bring

up a serious issue which I think has been the biggest so far in the

campaign? That relates to social care and to pensions. I think when

older people are facing the most likely prospect which is a

re-elected Tory government, sadly, and they are promising a dementia

tax, an end to the Winter Fuel Payment, and cuts to the pension, I

think those people deserve to know by how much. And they have not been

told will stop the Prime Minister did not have the guts to come along

this evening to tell us so I would like to challenge... APPLAUSE

I would like to challenge Amber Rudd to tell us the answer to that

question now because they must have costed it, they must know how much

money it will bring in so please tell the pensioners of this country

how much they will have to page to fund Tory austerity, how much? Don't

give up on me quite yet, it is only halfway through the debate. To raise

a May not be here, but a I hope to make a good fist of it. We have made

a clear decision to make sure we will protect the poorest in our

society, which means the pensioners... The pensioners will be

protected, the winter fuel payments won't be paid to millionaires. What

has happened to the triple lock. So, where will the level be put, then?

Under a Labour government, the pensioners saw a rise in their

pensions of 85p in one year. Under this government, we seem pensioners'

pay increase by more than ?1000. Will you be protecting the triple

lock? Axemen come have you not read my manifesto, I am happy to give you

copy afterwards. I want an answer now, are you going to protect the

triple lock? It's not about the triple lock. Amber Rudd... There are

two specific points here, one is about the level of the cap on social

care, and the other is, you have not said at what level you will be means

testing the winter fuel payments. We have said we will consult on that,

but a I can tell you very clearly that millionaires will not be given

it. Jeremy Corbyn has asked me about looking after pensioners, and I

would like to answer that. We will always look after pensioners to make

sure they have dignity and security in retirement. We have committed to

making sure that their pension will always be updated according to

inflation. That is so different to the commitment they got under

Labour. Tim Farron? Amber Rudd is not answering the question. We have

a general election in eight days' time, Theresa May assuming a great

landslide, which is wetting -- where she think she will not bother coming

tonight. We will take your house off you, and we will let you know how

much you can keep after you give us a great majority. If you give

Theresa May permission to do what she likes, that is what will happen

on the 8th of June. There was a question about how you

make things add up, the Liberal Democrats have a fully costed

manifesto. I will tell you what, there is a long-term economic plan

underlining the whole of our manifesto, and that is, don't leave

the European single market and throwaway ?15 billion every single

year. You have been clear about how you would pay for the extra ?6

billion - do you think that would be transformative? Absolutely. There

are those who say it would not make that much difference? To me can the

NHS is personal, not political. Why mum had ovarian cancer, from the

point of her diagnosis to treatment, to her care, to her passing away, in

a ward just two floors away from the one where she had given birth to me,

everybody out there, our experience of the National Health Service is

personal. Let me finish. The point is this took if you look at and you

use national health services, you know, as we saw in Manchester just

last week, how utterly dedicated and brilliant they are, and yet... And

yet, Caroline, let me finish, what we have got here is, you see the

professionalism and the decency of those people, but have we got the

best funded health service in the world? No, we haven't. Paul Nuttall,

of Ukip. It is important we put a penny on income tax to fund the

National Health Service. The question was, how would you raise

the money? We've been quite detailed about how we would do it. Firstly,

we would scrap HS2, which is only there for the benefit of one place

and one place alone, and that is London. We would also look at the

Barnet formula, which gives Scots ?1700 per head more than us, the

English. It needs to be scrapped. And finally... A famous ?350 million

a week! We would slash the foreign aid budget, which is costing the

British people ?30 billion. And we will transfer that money to the

National Health Service. Because we are prepared... We cannot hear him

speak. Because we are prepared to look at different priorities, we can

give the NHS an extra ?9 billion a year, ?2 billion extra for social

care. It is not that long ago that you call the NHS a monolithic

hangover - did you change your mind? In the early years of procurement, I

think I was right, I think the NHS would do better. However, going into

this election, and the last one, we have gone into it with a clear

commitment to keep the NHS in public hands and to put extra money in. We

will be taking money from the foreign aid budget, as I said. Thank

you all for your responses to that question.

Don't forget, if you want to get involved in the debate at home

you can join the conversation on social media using

We can now go to the next question. Good evening. What are your

priorities for making Britain a safer country and the world a safer

place? What are your priorities for making Britain a safer country, and

the world a safer place come and is Robertson? I will speak for all of

my colleagues here, at the forefront of our minds are all of the families

who suffered the devastation to their loved ones and relatives in

the attack on Manchester. What happened there was a horror, and

sadly, it's happening far too often, both here and around the world. So I

think the first thing we need to do is that we need to take safety and

security seriously. We need to invest in the police, not cut them,

as has been the case in England. In Scotland, we've managed to maintain

the police numbers. That is our first thing, let's the police and

give them the resources they need, and the intelligence services. There

has been some discussion about the link between UK foreign policy and

becoming perhaps a terrorist threat. I think that is a dangerous link to

draw, however, I would say this. I think we are right to question our

intervention in different parts of the world. In Afghanistan, Iraq and

Libya. The lesson I draw from that is not that it might be wrong

sometimes to intervene. We agreed that helping people in Libya was a

good thing. What was wrong was spending 13 times more bombing that

country than helping to rebuild it, and leaving areas of the world...

Leaving areas of the world with unhave and spaces is where terrorism

and extremism thrives. We need to give the police and security

services the tools they require, so, not cutting the police would be a

first step. And I think we need to be very cautious about intervene

internationally, and if we're going to do it, we have to think long and

hard about making sure that those places remain stable and safe for

lunar years to come. Jeremy Corbyn W have talked about our foreign

interventions and the link? What happened in Manchester was

unbelievably abominable in every way. Innocent lives were taken from

mainly young people out enjoying themselves. I want to live in a

country which protects the right of people to go out and enjoy

themselves in any town or city. The consequences of that are appalling

for those families, and I hope those that perpetrated this act are all

discovered and brought to book. But there is also a question we have to

ask about the number of police officers. Under Amber Rudd and

Theresa May before that, 20,000 police officers have lost their

jobs, there are fewer police officers around than there were

seven years ago. And those cuts are going to continue. I think it is

important that we restore those number. What I also think, if I may

say so, is the point which Angus was alluding to, about terror threats

and other threats to our security. There are terror threats, obviously,

and there are also cyber attack threats, as the National Health

Service discovered. It is also important that we recognise that

leaving large spaces of, for example, Libya without proper

government, leaves an opportunity for those who wish to do harm to

other people, giving them that space to do that. If you intervene

somewhere, the consequences go on for a very long time. Do you think

without the police cuts, the attack would not have happened? I am

absolutely not saying that. The attack in Manchester happened

because somebody decided that they wanted to go and kill a large number

of people for some perverted belief in their minds. They have to be

dealt with, and those people have to be protected. What I am also saying

is, though, it would be extremely unwise for any government, anywhere

in the world, to ignore what is happening in Libya, where large

areas are left not properly governed and very dangerous forces are

arising there. We need to recognise the human rights of people all

around the world and be prepared to support them, not just go in and

bomb and do nothing about it afterwards, which is what happened

in Libya. Just a quick point of fact before I turn to Amber Rudd took a

Diane Abbott has spoken about 10,000 new release numbers, you're saying

20,000? No, I'm saying 20,000 have been cut under the Conservatives.

What is also important is the response of people in this country

to what happened image is to. I was in Manchester straight after the

events took place, and Tim was there as well, and Amber Rudd. The most

amazing sense of community unity. They were not going to allow the

individual who killed those people to divide our community, it was a

united response. It is a really important question.

The first job of any government is to keep its citizens safe and

secure. But I go to level with you - since 2014, we have been at the

threat level of severe, which means an attack is highly likely. As Home

Secretary for the past year, I seem the evidence, I've seen the warrants

crossing my desk, I spend about two hours a day looking at them, seeing

the real damage that some of these terrorists want to do to us. The way

we try to stop them is by supporting our security services and

counter-terrorism police. The best way to try and intervene in those

plots is to make sure that they are well-funded, and we have increased

their budget significantly since 2015 and we hope to do even more. At

how do the cuts in police numbers make us safer? The fact is, they

were reductions in the police budget because we had to make changes to be

able to live within our means after 2010. But the police responded

incredibly welcome a crime has fallen by a third 2010 and 2015, and

we protected the police budget going forward. So, government CAN make

sure we live within our means and protect communities. But with

terrorism, we have to make sure we also have the right legislation. I

am shocked that Jeremy Corbyn, just in 2011, boasted that he had opposed

every piece of anti-terror legislation in his 13 years in

office. I really think you must be held accountable for that, because I

find it chilling. May I just remind you that in 2005, Theresa May voted

against the anti-terrorist legislation at that time. And she

voted against it, as did David Davis and a number of people who are now

in your cabinet, because they felt that that legislation was giving too

much executive power. My opposition to anti-terror legislation isn't

opposition to protecting us from terrorism, it is simply saying that

there must be judicial oversight over what is done in our name.

There is. Tim Farron, in your manifesto, you said you were going

to roll back state surveillance powers by ending the indiscriminate

collection of communications data, do you still stand by that, after

Manchester? If you look at the security services, what do they

need, more powers, or is it resources to make use of the powers

they already have? The temporary exclusion orders which exist now,

only one has been used in the last two years. But undoubtedly, the

shadow we are standing in now is that of Manchester. Manchester is my

capital city, it matters to me. As Jeremy said, I was there, all four

of my kids were in Manchester that night. Reminds us how safe are

police and security services keep us, the countless times that such

outrages have been prevented. How do you tackle it? Well, we will give an

additional ?300 million to police to make sure that we deal with

community policing, and we will also ensure that we restart the

engagement with communities, so you get on the inside, to prevent it.

There is undoubtedly an international angle to this, too.

Here is the thing, the terrorists that hate Britain, you know what,

they hate Belgium, they hate France, they hate Germany, they hate our way

of life and everything that we stand for. Just as we in Manchester stood

together against terrorism, and across Britain, we stand together

against terrorism, so we must stand together with our neighbours, not

just on this continent but around the world, with shared values, to

fight it. And that will mean diplomacy, that will mean all sorts

of things. And sometimes it will take real serious action. Sometimes

it might even mean military action. We will have to do the tough thing

to defeat the terrorists. Paul Nuttall?

It is quite clear that the war in Iraq was fundamentally wrong because

what was going to come next was going to be worse for that our

foreign policy was not an excuse for what went on in Manchester and what

politicians need to do is at least have the courage to name what it is,

it is Islamist extremism. You have had a diatribe so let's... It is

Islamist extremism, nobody has the courage to say what it is. How we

solve it, we put 20,000 police officers back on the beat, 4000 more

on the border force, we tighten our borders. 7000 new prison officers

because radicalisation is right in our prisons and I can't believe we

have allowed 350 jihadis to return to our country from Libya and Syria.

If you go ant and fight or support Islamic State you should have your

passport revoked and never be allowed back into this country.

APPLAUSE What we also have to do is look at

radicalising in our own mosques and I will say, I think you need to look

at Saudi and Qatari funding of mosques in this country. And finally

we need to get the Muslim community itself to the present programme,

only one out of eight referrals to prevent, from the Muslim community.

We have to rebuild trust and confidence. You know the murderer

last Monday was reported on five separate occasions by the Muslim

community. Caroline Lucas. Thank you to the question, and it is important

and let me be clear that people who commit the kind of atrocities like

in Manchester are barbaric and what they stand for is evil. The best

form of defence against attacks like that is intelligence led policing

and community engagement and the kind of response we have just heard

from Paul which seems to suggest that the violence in Manchester was

somehow representative of Islam is completely outrageous, it is no more

representative of Islam than the murder of Jo Cox was representative

of the wider British public. I'm deeply concerned about the police

cuts we have talked about and it is interesting that the Police

Federation warned those cuts could be very dangerous but I also think

it is right that we review our interventions overseas. It is a

disservice to democracy to present there is no link and close the

debate. The former head of MI5 herself has said the invasion of

Iraq exacerbated the terror threat to the UK and was highly significant

in her words in terms of home-grown extremists. I want to say something

to Amber because we can't solve all the problems in the world but we can

stop adding to them. My question is this, why is Britain, -- why is

Britain the second biggest arms dealer in the world? Why are we

selling to 22 of the 30 countries on the government's own human rights

watch list? Why did we make ten times more in arms sales to Saudi

Arabia than we gave to Yemen in aid? I will make no apology for being a

government that wants to defend this country. We will make sure that our

defence budget is well funded and we do that by having a strong economy.

We have to make sure we can do that by having a strong industry. Arms

sales to Saudi Arabia cannot be justified on this being good for

industry. APPLAUSE Leanne Wood. There does need to be

some reviewing going on, we need to look at foreign policy and the

prevent strategy. It is a fact that policing has been cut by 20%

including when Theresa May was in the Home Office and it is a question

of priorities. We should be investing in police and other public

services, those are the people running into the dangerous

situations when everybody else is running away. That point has been

made, when you say we should look at what we are doing, what would you do

differently in terms of attacking extremism? In terms of the cuts to

public services, but has had an impact and if you take an example,

youth work. When you had a well funded youth service there were

youth workers available to challenge the ideology of young people... Are

you saying austerity has made us less safe? I am saying it has cut

youth workers and there are fewer people around to challenge the root

cause and ideology that spurs these people on. Can I finish? I used to

work as a probation officer and if we are interested in tackling the

root cause of this problem, we had to understand what it is, understand

the ideological drivers and they have to be challenged by people

qualified to be able to do that. By cutting youth workers and other

public services, you are reducing your ability to do that and that is

one of the reasons we are less safe. Keep it brief. I think what we have

to remember, particularly when everything is so raw just nine days

after Manchester, there is a lot of finger-pointing going on and we all

have ideas and some are different and some similar but the critical

thing to remember at this point is that knee jerk new policies and laws

tend to do more harm than good, more resources for security services and

the police we have already will do a lot more good than harm. I said you

needed to be brief, Paul Nuttall. Of course, the vast majority of Muslims

in this country are peaceful and add to the economy and are great for our

culture but there is a tiny minority within that community who hate who

we are, the way we live, our democracy, and I've called it a

cancer in the past, radical Islam is a cancer and it needs to be cut out,

if not there will be more attacks. You have not ruled out looking up

suspected terrorists? Without trial, would that make us safer? Frankly I

have said nothing should be taken off the table. As far as I'm

concerned, when MI5 tell as there is a possible 23,000 jihadis out there

who want to do us harm... Angus Robertson. British lives over the

human rights of any jihadis. I remember the question was about

terrorism and extremism and you notice Ukip went straight for

Muslims. It is my time to speak. It wasn't a Muslim who shot Jo Cox, one

of Jeremy's MP colleagues, it was a British right-wing neo-Nazi. Who was

it who gunned down kids in Norway? A Norwegian white racist neo-Nazi.

There are all kinds of threats and we need to combat them all. Jeremy

Corbyn. The response of the people of Manchester was absolutely

magnificent, all communities of all faiths coming together and I utterly

deplore the language that Paul Nuttall users and the subliminal

attack the whole time on people of Muslim faith... You invited how mass

-- Hamas to the House of Commons. If I might complete a sentence. We have

to recognise we live in a multi-faith, multicultural society

and an attack on any religion is totally unacceptable. We should

recognise we should bring people together... Thank you, that is all

the time we have on this particular question. Our next question comes

from Rebecca. President Trump is pulling out of the Paris climate

change agreement. How would the panellists deal with that? How would

you deal with President Trump wanting to pull out of the Paris

agreement? I will ask everybody to deal with this briefly so we can get

one more question in. We will talk about Brexit being a huge threat and

whatever you think, nothing better as a threat to our country and the

future of our children than that of climate change. You are worried

about immigration? You see the mass movement of people as land is

designated by climate change and the reality is this, if it is simply for

muesli eating Guardian readers to solve card climate change, we all

soft so let's make a difference and that made a nationwide and App

planet wide concerted effort to build the future we need. What can

we do? We can make ourselves energy self-sufficient in renewable energy.

95% of the Supply chain of energy in this country title and Marine and

coastal energy is British made. Why not rebuild our economy whilst

guaranteeing our futures? Caroline Lucas. I want to thank user much for

that question because the Green party have been trying to get

climate change onto this election campaign agenda for the past six

weeks and it has been impossible soap thank you so much. It is a

vital question, the greatest threat we face and in terms of what we do

to President Trump, I'm trying to think of polite answer! Essentially

what we need to do ignore him because the economics behind

renewables is already such that we know that renewables are going to be

cheaper than fossil fuels that they replace. That revolution is

happening but what we need to do in this country is an awful lot more

than is being doing -- being done by this government. We need to leave

two thirds of all known fossil fuels in the ground if we are to have any

hope of avoiding catastrophic climate change and that means a

massive investment in renewable energy and efficiency. Amber Rudd of

course was the energy secretary for a while but under herbs we did not

see the kind of transition we urgently need if we are serious

about climate change so we need to see the big fossil fuels in the

ground, not giving subsidies, no fracking, not what is being planned

or around the country under this government. We also need to seek an

end to massive air pollution. I'm going to stop you because I wanted

to do Paul Nuttall. President Trump is doing what he set out to do. He's

the leader of the free world whether we like it or not and he said in his

election campaign that he would withdraw from the Paris agreement

and he is looking at India and China who have huge coal-fired power

station building programmes which are taking place at the moment. Do

you think he's doing the right thing? He's looking at the US

economy and he promised to look after the rust belt and working

class people and he knows that if they reduce energy bills by

withdrawing from the Paris agreement he will protect the American economy

and he is putting America first and I think Britain should put Britain

at first as well. So would you want to see Britain doing the same? We

are only to blame for 2% of global emissions. Companies will move to

countries with lower... Jeremy Corbyn. We should absolutely adhere

to the Paris climate change agreement and urge the American

people to press the government and the Senate and house and president

to adhere to it as well. APPLAUSE And in this country we are

determined to achieve 60% of renewable energy by 9030, we are

also determined to reduce emissions but it is not just about climate

change emissions, it is also about our attitude towards the

environment, levels of air quality and air pollution in our cities

which are not being addressed by this government, and also, when we

did have a growing and thriving solar power industry in the country,

what did they do? Cut the tariffs were destroyed and damaged that

Rudd. The UK's own official adviser says

your government is not on track to make the pledge of cutting emissions

by 80% by 2050? Why not. I will answer the first question, I am

disappointed, I led the UK delegation to get that international

agreement of 180 different countries pledging to that reduction and it is

disappointing that the Americans are pulling out but I hope we can use

our relationship with President Trump and our close relationship

with the US to try to influence and make sure they nevertheless take the

right steps. Tell him he is wrong. That's not quite how diplomacy

works. The reason why I'm optimistic is because there has been such

substantial investment in renewable energy and in solar. It increasingly

does not need a subsidy and because of that investment it makes good

economic sense as well as good renewable... What about air

pollution? This is terrible leadership on the part of Donald

Trump and also appalling leadership on the half of the Prime Minister

who cannot even be bothered to come here and answer these questions for

herself today. APPLAUSE It is no surprise. He was clear in

his campaign what it was that he would be about in terms of climate

change and he is sticking to his line but he is wrong and the world

needs to tell him he is wrong. It is bad business. To answer the

question, I'm more than disappointed, I am appalled that

President Trump has walked away from a global approach to one of the

biggest challenges we face at home and abroad. What he has done is what

many others fear he will do in a number of different ways, walking

away from having a multilateral approach, working together with

other countries to deal with serious problems. That is why if the UK at a

special relationship with the United States, and we remember the first

trip that was made by Theresa May was to seem a climate change denier,

namely Donald Trump, what kind of influence was used by the Prime

Minister then to make sure he did not go forward with this disastrous.

This is a government that has got rid of the climate change

responsible at the at the Cabinet table and it is absolutely appalling

so what we need to do is everything we can at home, I'm delighted that

more than 50% of all energy generated in Scotland is three

renewables, we wanted to go ahead with carbon capture and storage

until it was scrapped by the Tories but there is more to be done and the

promised and the government need to take climate change seriously in a

way they have done recently and we need to impress all our

international colleagues we need to work together and get this global

challenge sorted. It is time now for our last question. In what way does

your leadership have the talent and character required to take this

country forward into the future? In what way does your leadership have

the talent and the character needed to take this country forward, Jeremy

Corbyn? Leadership is about understanding the people you

represent, is about being prepared to learn, is about not being so high

and mighty, you can't take advice. It is also about bringing people

with you, it is also about ensuring that your responsibility is to

protect the safety and security of everybody in this country, and to

lead a government that cares for everybody in the country and doesn't

walk by on the other side when there are people that are homeless, people

that are starving, and we have millions of our children living in

poverty. It is leadership to lead a government that is prepared to say

to our society, we cannot go on like this, we have to start putting more

money into our public services and our resources, we have to have an

economy that works for all, and we don't have to have a spiv economy

which gives tax relief to the biggest corporations and the

wealthiest people whilst ignoring the desperate cries for social help

from so many people in our country. Paul Nuttall. Your leadership? Well,

I've never changed my stance pretty much on anything. I don't flip flop.

I have always been, for example, a Brexiteer. Rack when I joined Ukip,

you don't join Ukip for a career, you joined it because you've got

principles. Our Prince Apoel simply this - we wanted to get our country

out of the European Union, and we were very successful on the 23rd of

June last year. What we've got to do is, we have got to ensure that we

get the Brexit which people voted for, whereby we control our own

borders and immigration, we get full control of our waters and fisheries

back, we bring our laws back to Westminster, we leave the ECJ and

the European Court of Human Rights. We are free to sign our own trade

deals, we are out of the single market, and most importantly, we pay

no divorce bill to the European Union, because since we've been

members, since 1973, we've paid ?183 billion net in ownership fee alone.

I would be strong enough going into the negotiations, I just hope the

Prime Minister is. Would you refuse to pay your dues if you were going

through a real divorce? Look, listen...

We have given that club 183 billion since 1973. We have got 9 billion

tied up in the European Investment Bank, and indeed, we only it's of

its real estate. Don't talk down this country, we are the fifth

largest economy in the world. In the real world, there is no such thing

as a free divorce, you have to pay your dues. This is all about... This

is all about trade, and we have a huge trading deficit with the EU,

they need us more than we need them. For god's sake, let's be confident

about ourselves. Amber Rudd, the question is about leadership, and

the Conservatives have made a lot of noise about Theresa May's personal

leadership and yet this is a campaign where we saw a major U-turn

on social care? Part of being a good leader is having a good, strong team

around you, and I am proud to be here representing the Conservative

Party and the Prime Minister making that case. Let's face it, Jeremy

only decided to come I think late this morning. I was rather hoping

Diane Abbott might be here so I could debate with her as well. But

the fact is, the most important challenge that this government is

going to have going forward is getting a good negotiation with the

EU. It is going to decide whether we have a strong economy, whether we

can pay good wages to our public servants, Theresa May has the

support of her team. She has the support of whoever becomes her MPs.

Jeremy Corbyn has had a no confidence vote against him, which

four out of five of his MPs would not support him on. How can he go in

to negotiate with 27 different countries with such a weak team and

weak support behind him? Theresa May will be able to deliver for us, as

Home Secretary, she delivered 35 different opt-outs, she knows how to

negotiate and deliver from the European Union. She will be the

right leader for us. Jeremy Corbyn, can you respond to that point?

300,000 people elected me to need this party, and I'm very proud to

lead it. Caroline Lucas? I think the first

rule of leadership is to show up. You don't a general election...

You don't say it is the most important election in her lifetime

and then not even be bothered to turn up to the debate. I am here as

a co-leader and I am proud that the Green Party pioneers new ways of

doing things. We want to see job sharing in all kinds of different

areas of our lives and I am very happy to be there with my co-leader.

Leadership is about listening, it is about legalising that all of us have

leadership qualities, and in particular I think it is about

trusting the public. On that issue, I do not understand why this

government will not allow the people to have the final say on the EU

referendum. Why can we not have a Vatican issued referendum, when we

see the final deal, of what Theresa May or whoever it is brings back

from Brussels? Why can we not trust the British people to have that

final say? If they like what they see, that's great, but if they

don't, away to have another look at that is by voting Green, because we

will say on that ballot paper that you should have the right to remain

in the EU if that is what you choose when you see the small print.

Because since this referendum was called, so many lies were told...

Tim Farron, your qualities of leadership? Well, good leaders do

not run away from a debate. Theresa May undoubtedly should be here. We

discuss this evening, her absence is undoubtedly the shadow which hangs

over this election. How dare you call a general election and then run

away from the debate? The question is about your talent

and character of leadership? We are all products of our upbringing. I

grew up in Preston in the 1980s and I saw what happens when a society, a

community is taken for granted, in that case by a Conservative

government with a great majority, half of parents out of work at any

given time. And I'm determined to build a country for our kids, mine

included, where people are decent to one another, where we have a

National Health Service which is properly funded, and we will be

honest to the British people, saying we will put a penny on income tax.

It means stopping Theresa May's plans to do to your kids' schools

what she is currently doing to our hospitals. It also means, if you

want to leave the people, you have to like them as well and spend time

amongst them. If you trust the people, then you do not impose that

Brexit deal on the British people without them having the final say.

Either the politicians will sign it off or the people will. I trust the

people. I just want to turn to Angus Robertson. Real leadership is about

putting the country before your party. And I think we all now know

that this was a totally unnecessary election, and the only reason

Theresa May called it was that she thought she was then have a massive

majority a result of it. Whatever happened to strength and stability?

Where has that gone?! Weak and wobbly is where we are, not so much

the iron Lady as the U-turn Queen. That is not the leadership that we

require. In contrast, as leader of the SNP in the House of Commons, the

third party in the House of Commons, I am proud that we have led the

effective opposition, when suddenly come the Labour Party has too often

dropped the ball, asking questions not just which battered to people in

Scotland, but in the rest of the UK, Europe and the world as well. I am

confident that the SNP will be return to Westminster as the

third-party, because we need to protect our country from the Tories.

How many MPs? I am working hard to win in every single-seaters

Scotland, Mishal, that is our plan. People must realise it is either the

SNP or the Tories in Scotland. Whichever party they naturally vote

for, they must realise this. Leanne Wood? I believe leaders should walk

the walk, and should be prepared to defend so-so politics and their

policies. They should also be prepared to stick to their guns, and

it's shocking that Theresa May has done a U-turn on so many things.

There was not going to be an election, now, there is an election.

There was not going to be a tax on the self-employed, or there was, and

then it was abolished. And then there is this latest U-turn on the

dementia tax. I am not one for U-turns. Five country, we will stick

to our manifesto promises, and Plaid Cymru will lead for Wales. Thank

you. Thank you to all our speakers for their responses to that final

question. That ends our audience

questions tonight. Now for our speakers'

closing statements, I am going to ask you to please

applaud right at the end of all seven of the statements.

Tonight has been a little like Groundhog Day - you've

heard the same arguments, excuses and platitudes

Ukip will always be the outsider - the one the Westminster elites

and establishment media want to mock and ridicule.

But we've been proved right on Brexit, proved

right on immigration, proved right on grammar schools,

proved right on protecting our police and security services -

on 8th June, it's your decision, your country, your vote.

Next is Caroline Lucas, co-leader of the Green Party.

Tonight, this country stands at a crossroads - and the choice

You can stand up for what really matters

- values of openness, tolerance and compassion.

Or you can turn inward to isolation, division and hate.

One more MP from the other parties makes no real difference.

But more Green MPs would be truly transformative.

On June 8th, I urge you - don't look back.

Choose what kind of future you really want.

And together, let's build a caring and a more confident Britain.

Tonight, we have seen the real choice facing our country, between a

Labour government and a Conservative government. This election will

decide whether young people will be saddled with debt or freed from it,

whether we invest in schools and social care, or they continue to be

cut, whether older people get the dignity they deserve or see their

incomes fall. On the 8th of June, you have the power to decide. Vote

Labour, for the many, not the few. The deputy leader of

the SNP, Angus Robertson. In this debate, you've heard

different views about the kind For those watching in England,

Wales and Northern Ireland, the SNP will always work with others

who share our belief in fairness and of an outward

looking, welcoming society. Now, more than ever,

we need a strong opposition to hold The SNP will be that

strong voice for Scotland. And our pledge is this -

to work every day to make Scotland the very

best country it can be. Tonight, you've heard that

Plaid Cymru is the only party putting Wales on the agenda

during this election. But our MPs will play their part

for the whole of the UK. We will stand up for justice

and fair play on pensions, on social care, and for our

cash-starved public services. So, I urge people back home

to give us the mandate Don't let our country be

invisible in Parliament. Tim Farron, leader of

the Liberal Democrats. I will give you the final say

over the Brexit deal. I will put a penny

on income tax for the NHS. And I will stand up

to the Conservatives over the dementia tax

and everything else. The Prime Minister

is not here tonight. In fact, Bake Off

is on BBC Two next. You are not worth

Theresa May's time. And for the final closing

statement this evening, for the Conservatives,

Amber Rudd. You've heard the squabbling

and discord of disagreement You've seen the coalition

of chaos in action. But in the quiet of the polling

booth, you have a clear choice. A vote for anyone other

than Theresa May is a vote for Our government needs to be

at its strongest to take us through Brexit - it is only

Theresa May that can There is going to be live reaction

tonight on the BBC News Channel to the debate. And there will be a

special question time from York later in the week. I would like to

thank our audience, especially those whose questions were used tonight,

and to all of you watching at home, and indeed to the seven politicians

who took part tonight. From all of us here, goodbye.

I've had enough spin. Fake news.