The Reaction BBC Election Debate

Hello and welcome. I am at the Cambridge union building, just down

the road from that very lively and passionate debate. Passionate, as I

say. A few fireworks. Theresa May didn't turn up but Jeremy Corbyn was

there. I am at the Cambridge

union building, just down the road from that

very lively and Theresa May didn't turn up

but Jeremy Corbyn was Let's get a flavour of some of the

sparks that flew tonight. This is one exchange between Jeremy Corbyn

and Amber Rudd, discussing the need for social care. We are a party who

always supports those in most need. And the welfare bill for helping

people on disabilities has gone up ?7 billion in the last three years.

We will always provide that safety net. Amber, you try to remove safety

nets from people on disabilities and turned around on that. You are not

credible. I know there is no extra payments you do not want to add, no

tax you do not want to rise but the fact is that we have to concentrate

our resources on the people who need it most and we have to stop

thinking, as you do, that there is a magic money tree. You have to be

accountable. Just one of the highlights from the debate this

evening. I am pleased to say that Damian Green from the Conservatives

as Whitney. We heard Tim Farron in his closing argument is basically

say that as far as Theresa May is concerned, she didn't care about the

voters because she did not bother turning up tonight. How do you

answer that? That is clearly ridiculous, like a lot of what was

said during this evening. What you saw tonight illustrated the

differences between the parties. Amber Rudd, Carl Manning control,

realistic, discussing difficult issues in an adult weight and Jeremy

Corbyn, use what is government would be like because although the other

parties, by and large, agree on higher taxes, higher spending, more

borrowing, higher immigration, they still disliked each other and

squabbles. So that was the coalition of chaos made flesh. That is what a

Jeremy Corbyn led government would look like. You can see that it is a

clear choice for the British people. Emily Thornberry has just turned up

in the spin room for an impromptu chat. Yes, Jeremy Corbyn turned up.

And the belief, perhaps, from those within the Labour Party, is that

that put Theresa May on the back foot. I just don't understand why

she was not here. What is she afraid of? I have to say, I think to

myself, if she cannot get out and debate, how the hell can she be

saying to the British public that she can negotiate? Why is she such a

coward? That is a ridiculous thing to say. No, it's not ridiculous. She

is talking to real people and she has a lot of respect. She has been

here more often than Jeremy Corbyn. What is she doing tonight? She has

been in the West Country. She has done twice as many meetings, taken

more questions from the public and from journalists than Jeremy Corbyn

ever did. He makes a speech to a Momentum rally and goes away. She is

engaging with real people. We did see the choices evening. You start a

Conservative government calmly getting about taking difficult

decisions, and making sure that we are in a good place. I think what we

saw tonight was a Conservative Prime Minister hiding from the British

people and not being prepared to come out and answer questions in the

way that Jeremy Corbyn did. Jeremy, tonight, was passionate and

principled and pine in a cereal. You have a choice, you can either have a

Prime Minister like that or you can have a Prime Minister hiding behind

the curtains at Number Ten, and just switching on the Great British Bake

Off. Did he and the suggestion that there is some kind of magic money

tree? He is going to pay for all the policies that you have in the

manifesto? We have a fully costed manifesto. How much will you pay for

the energy industry? How much borrowing would you do? In your

manifesto, apart from page numbers, are there any numbers? You are so

arrogant that you are not even going to pretend to cost things. You claim

that you would buy a lot of industries and put no money in at

all. You say trust us, trust Theresa May, but no, we do not take the

public for granted. You get out there and argued your corner.

Because it is really worth having a decent government, appeared to

answer questions. But the magic money tree, if you read the

costings, it does not include any money to buy the energy industry, to

buy the railways and the National Grid, to buy the water industry. You

say that will come from borrowing but it does not count as borrowing

because we will be able to pay the borrower back. That is the most

economically illiterate thing any major party has put forward since

Labour's 1983 manifesto. All I can say is that if the ISS says that we

have a fully costed manifesto, and they have said that we are going to

put... We're going to put ?1, for every ?1 we pretend we increase

economy. And what you're suggesting, you are just suggesting more

austerity. We have that seven years of it and that is all you have

promised. You are promising more pain to the British people, another

ten or 15 years, more austerity, and no idea. And we can show that we

have the lowest unemployment since the 1970s because of the responsible

economic decisions we have taken, we have shown that we are able to

introduce the national living wage, taking 4 million people out of tax

altogether. But how people cannot pay their bills? How come people...

You can have higher borrowing and higher taxes, every Labour

government has left office with unemployment higher than when it

took office. Jeremy Corbyn will multiply that. Why is it that living

standards now are lower than they were before the recession started?

People cannot pay their bills and you have no plans for how the

country is going to get a pay rise. The best route out of poverty is

work. We have got more people in work than any government. There are

are 3% of people at work in this country on zero hours contracts and

the average hours they work is 25 hours. The number of people on zero

hours contracts who are happy with their work is 70%. Those are the

facts. I know Labour has difficulty with figures. We have nurses going

to food banks. I can tell you about people not being able to put food on

the table and that is under your watch. And you have no right to

that. Like all previous Labour governments, you would destroy the

British economy. You would spend too much and is taxed too much. I will

have to leave it there. Thank you very much. Emily Thornberry talking

about the banks. There was a good exchange in the debate involving

Jeremy Corbyn speaking about that very issue. I will say this, since

Amber Rudd seems so confident that this country is at ease with itself,

have you been to a food bank and seen people sleeping in our

stations? Let me answer that. Have you seen the levels of poverty that

exists because of your government's conscious decisions on benefits? The

way to have people not using food banks... There are two of you coming

at me now, I'm not sure which one I'm going to take. Another powerful

exchange. Tim Farron had to reach out today, no question. Do you think

you did that? I think he did really well. He got applause on a

significant number of his policies, principles and values that the Lib

Dems stand for and he made it absolutely clear that we are the

ones providing real opposition to the Conservatives at the moment.

With the selection is about Brexit, Labour just handed Theresa May a

black check -- blank cheque. But he seems to come unstuck about the

amount of money being put forward for the NHS in your manifesto? ?6

billion, a drop in the ocean by all accounts. As he said, that is the

initial funding and we are waiting for the independent commission to

come through to talk about how we fund health and social care in the

future. We know that needs to be tackled properly. The dementia tax

is not the way to do it. It goes against all the advice of the Dilnot

Commission. We supported that then and it needs to be updated which is

why the Lib Dems are providing that extra penny for the NHS and social

care until we get the results of that commission. And as a country,

we can then take a proper way forward. We are showing live

pictures of Jeremy Corbyn leaving the venue in Cambridge. His decision

to turn up here was taken at lunchtime, apparently. He made it

clear in the run-up to tonight that he was not going come here if

Theresa May didn't herself show up. She has always made clear that she

was not going to be here but Jeremy Corbyn, perhaps buoyed by the

success of his campaign so far and the tightening of the polls over the

last few days and weeks, decided that he would turn up here, and face

the audience questions, about 130 people picked from all social

economic groups, representing all political views in the hall here in

Cambridge this evening. Finally, the fact of the matter is that the

Liberal Democrats, the surge that a lot of people were hoping forward in

the party, particularly after the Brexit vote, and the promise within

your manifesto of a second referendum on any deal, has that

really got any traction? Hasn't really sunk in? We are in absolutely

no doubt that the surge is happening in our strongest seats. It echoes

the by-election victories that we have had over the past 18 months,

and it is going really well but I would agree that there has not been

a surge across the country. However, I think people will be pleasantly

surprised by the number of seats we win in a week. It is good to see you

and thank you very much indeed. It has been a lively debate and one hot

button issue throughout the campaign tonight has certainly been

immigration. Let's hear part of that exchange. Ukip has just claimed that

people voted to leave the European Union and in so doing they also

voted to curb immigration. I don't think we can read that into the

results. Some people may well have voted to curb immigration but there

was only one question on the ballot paper and immigration was not on it.

I'm afraid that you can keep using this issue. They want to put up

people's hatred, division and fear, and that is why they talk about

immigration. Stop lying about immigration. Stop lying. Listen,

this isn't about immigrants, it's about government policy, and the

government have got it wrong time and time again. Amber, for example,

her party has said in three manifestos now that they are going

to get immigration down to the tens of thousands. Well, it is Jackanory,

it is not going to happen. Jeremy will not give your figure because

Labour will make immigration go up. There is only one party on this

platform that will see a drop in immigration, which is what the

majority of British people want. Poll after poll shows this time and

time again. We have seen today that you are looking at ?1 billion in

additional cost to the health service because of the government's

bungling of the deal with Europe which means that we will have

thousands of pensioners from Europe, British pensioners returning to the

United Kingdom. Can I say, I think this debate shames and demeans us

all. I do not think anyone in this room or anyone watching this debate

from Cornwall to Caithness does not understand of the positive

contribution that people have made to this land who've come from the

rest of Europe and the rest of the world and demonising those people is

totally unacceptable. A pretty heated exchange their own

immigration. Let stock to Peter Whittle from Ukip. It is good to see

you and thanks for joining us. We heard a clip of Paul Nuttall and

Angus Robertson suggesting that the debate about immigration has

actually shamed the country, and he is firmly putting the blame for that

at the door of Ukip. Well, that is unbelievable, monstrous and

ridiculous. The fact is that this is a subject which is probably top of

most people's concerns and has been for a long time. It doesn't mean

that people are racist. What he is actually saying is that he is trying

to close down the debate yet again. I think what is interesting about

tonight is the fact that Paul Nuttall was the only one of the

leaders they are actually talking in a constructive way about how we get

managed migration. Everybody else just fell on him, and then they

wonder why people are disengaged, if you like, from other parties,

because the fact is that none of them will actually even look at this

issue seriously. But the suggestion is that you have underestimated the

importance of immigration to this country and the fact that you want

an Australian points system, the system that they stand there, that

that will not fit this country because they want much more

immigration into Australia and that would not work for the UK. That is

the beauty of the points system. You work out what you need and what you

want. The fact is, they are just using that as an excuse because they

do not want any discussion on this issue. Labour ones open borders and

the greens want open borders. Ideological, they do. The Tories

have no will, and certainly have no desire or intent to get down to the

famous tens of thousands. We are the only party saying that we will cut

migration by half. Do you believe that Paul Nuttall has managed to

lodge in the minds of voters and there is tonight the idea that Ukip

still has a relevance, despite the referendum result? Absolutely

because in the referendum, we were formed for Brexit, true, but we have

gone on to other things. Immigration is one of those things. When you

have the display that we had today, which shows that the establishment

is still not listening on this issue, and the reason for Ukip is

very clear. I think that all muddle has emerged in the past week. He did

the into new with Andrew Neil, and he was very robust tonight. There

she did the interview with Andrew Neil. On his comments about

terrorism this evening, he showed great courage. But the reaction from

a lot of people in the hall suggested that perhaps Ukip is

unfairly targeting Muslims. The fact is, I have to say, this is a hugely,

it is a Remainer constituency. It is rather a biased audience. The fact

is, there is no way that we have ever done this. In the debate he

says he's not talking about the majority of Muslims, but to say that

there is a terrorist inspired by radical Islam carrying out attacks,

it is just to be in complete denial, and I think, or do we do if we want

to fight this matter if we cannot even name what it is? That is the

point is making and in the current climate, that takes a lot of

courage, I think. Peter Whittle from Ukip, thank you for joining us.

Let's get a little bit more all from the debate. Caroline Lucas was

talking about the relevance or irrelevance of Trident. We would

stop spending money on things we simply do not think is a good use of

money. And Trident nuclear weapons would come pretty close to the top

of that list. We will scrap nuclear weapons, which would give us around

?130 billion over the next 30 years. We would not be building HS2, or

going ahead giving massive subsidies to nuclear power stations. First of

all, the thing you do is you stop wasting money, and then you have a

principle that says that those people who have more money, who have

the broader shoulders, should be giving more into our system. So

essentially what we need to be doing is to be levying things like the

wealth tax, looking at issues around, as I said before,

corporation tax. I think it is wrong that we are going for this bargain

basement tax haven. I think we should be looking at a country where

corporations pay their tax. But the bottom line is that this country is

not a par country. The money is in the wrong hands. There is vast

inequality in this country. And if we were to sort out that problem,

then we would have a much better chance of ensuring that public

services are properly paid for it. Take the NHS. We have far less input

into the NHS than most other countries of a similar GDP and

similar wealth. We do not put that money in public services and

therefore we do not have world-class public services that we demand. Let

stock to Kirsty Blackmon from the SNP. Good to see you. -- lets talk

to. Can you explain why Nicholas Turgeon was not here? Angus

Robertson is our leader at Westminster. The decision was taken

that Angus would do tonight's debate and he has been the real opposition

to Theresa May, we can and week out so it was publicly reasonable that

our Westminster leader was there. And how do you sum up how well he

did? I think he did really well. I think his comments were clear and he

was clearly putting the Tories on the back foot, having them justify

their manifesto, which is unjustifiable. It was obvious that

the SNP are strong voice for Scotland and I think Angus's voice

came through clearly. He was showing a real leadership. But how do you

justify putting of balancing the books and dealing with the deficit

for longer, and borrowing no longer? Putting off dealing with the deficit

longer. Actually we are looking at longer. Actually we are looking at

balancing the books and returning things to the pre-crash average.

We're looking at making responsible fiscal decisions but at the same

time we're not going to implement the massive austerity that the

Tories haven't commented. We do not believe that the most vulnerable in

society should have to balance the books on their backs. We are making

decisions to prioritise the people who are struggling the most and not

the wealthiest. But it means pushing the can further down the road for

future generations to deal with? Very marginally. We are looking at

having a balanced budget in not that much longer a time then the Tories

are looking at having it. We're looking at making responsible fiscal

decisions, and we're looking at our budget involving ?120 billion of

savings, things like spending on the NHS, which we will use to make sure

that pensioners are prioritised, that we do not have the austerity

and welfare cuts that we have seen. They do very much for joining us. I

will remind you that we are here in the spin room, at Cambridge

University, and this is where the journalists and bloggers, the

pundits are all putting together their interpretation of the debates

tonight, and that is what you will see on the front pages tomorrow

morning, we will be reading about it in the papers and also watching on

television and on the radio. And to my left, Sian Berry of the Green

Party. Good to see you. Right, how do you think it went for the Green

Party and Caroline Lucas? I think she was absolutely the standout

performer in that debate. Well, you would, wouldn't you? She was calm

and compassionate, and credible. She was the only one getting under the

skin of Amber Rudd. Landing blows on her, pointing out that it is working

people who use the banks, who have been pushed into poverty by the cuts

of the Tories, calling out for arms sales to Saudi Arabia. I think it

shows the kind of thing is that the Green Party would do when any party

is in power. We call people out on the important issues and we are

there to challenge whoever is there. People watching today will see what

a difference a green and paint makes to the debate and they will

want more -- a green MP makes to the debate. But are they wanting more of

that on their doorstep? You know, the proposals for a progressive

alliance, that has not taken off. Kvitova debates today, you can see a

remarkable amount of agreement between different parties. There is

a consensus emerging against the austerity parties, the

anti-immigration rhetoric, and that came from the audience. If you

picked a balanced audience today, every time somebody made a point

about fairness and equality, everyone constantly made a point

about welcoming our fellow citizens, about togetherness crops Europe and

there was wild applause. I think the country is deciding on a different

direction and I think several parties are deciding on that

direction. It is an interesting opportunity. You have the

opportunity to speak to many different people this afternoon. Do

you think Caroline Lucas do that effectively? We have a choice in

many seats to be green MPs in Parliament and we have the

opportunity to send messages to other points of Parliament. I think

it has been a good election for us so far and Caroline is incredible.

We love her. Sian Berry from the Green Party there. And to my right,

here is Stephan Lewies from Clyde Comrie. -- by Comrie. A big night

for the smaller parties and an opportunity to get your voice out to

millions of people. Was it heard loudly enough? Once again, I think

Leanne Wood's character, likeability and authenticity shone through. And

once again, Plaid Cymru is the party putting Wales on the UK political

landscape. The question facing the people of Wales next week will be,

do we want to keep Wales on that political landscape and after the

votes have been counted and the only way we can do that is with a strong

field of Plaid Cymru MPs. I think unless we have Plaid Cymru speaking

up for Wales in the new parliament, at next Thursday, the voice of Wales

will be lost and Wales would be invisible to whichever party forms

the next government. A slightly sticky moment when a question was

put to Leanne Wood about immigration, and the suggestion that

your party once more immigration for part of the country, are part that

voted, randomly in favour of Brexit. It was a sticky moment for the

presenter that are not quite got the manifesto passage correct. Why

Comrie is advocating a Welsh Visa system under the new immigration

system, so that there are skills gaps in the Welsh economy, the Welsh

public sector, that we would be able to fill with work visas as part of a

wider UK visa and immigration policy. Something similar to what

they have in Australia where different states are allowed to

issue a certain number of visas. Bachelet, it was clarified that we

cannot have a one size fits all Brexit. Wheels is the only country

in the UK that is a net exporter of goods and if we do not have the deal

that allows us to freely trade with our European partners, that will be

a threat for many Welsh jobs. Leanne To night put Welsh interests on the

agenda and we are determined to keep them at the top of the agenda after

the election. Thank you very much indeed. Let's take a bit of a breath

with all this, and get the view of an expert pollster from you cover.

It is good to see you, Joe. Interesting the Jeremy Corbyn

decided he wanted to turn up tonight. -- from you Gava. Did

Jeremy Corbyn turn up? There was very little from today that will

resonate over the next few days, which is what you want if you're

coming to these debates. You want something to go viral, in modern

islands. You want a line that will resonate, not just tonight, not just

on the news tonight but over the next few days. My impression was

that there was not really anything coming out from tonight that will do

that. Jeremy Corbyn, his performance was perfectly fine but I don't think

anybody who was present actually made a mistake. If a story comes out

it will be about the absence of Theresa May. But I do not think that

any of this will have a long-lasting effect on the poll ratings for

anyone or any of the parties. So no discernible hit on the polls. It

made sense in Theresa May's opinion to not be here? With these things,

it is a debate between what is to win and what is to lose and a you

are the Prime Minister, everyone can turn on you and you have more to

lose than gain. You are directed to defend that nobody else does, so it

places you in a difficult position. If I was a Conservative strategist I

would agree that staying away was the right thing but I do not think

they will take a massive hit tonight. I feel like a bit of video

you'll tonight, as seen from left to right. Let's get a final thought

with our chief Political Correspondent, Vicki Young. An

interesting debate. Quite raucous, talking over each other at times,

and stocking over each other. Michelle Hussein having trouble

keeping control over some of it. What was your impression? It was

obvious that Amber Rudd was under the most pressure, obvious because

they have been in power for seven years and she has a record to

defend. But if you saw the attacks that she was under about funding and

cuts to disable payments, pensioners, police cuts, education,

the NHS, talk about people going into food banks and all of that, she

was under sustained attack from the others, as you would expect. But

what was obvious is that there is a very clear choice out there. It was

her were presenting the Conservatives and Jeremy Corbyn, who

came here and decided that he would come and debate and make his point,

very quickly making it clear what he wants to do. He wants to lessen the

gap between rich and poor. He openly

said that he will put up taxes, raising taxes on the rich. He says

he wants to give more money to public services. The comeback from

Amber Rudd was to say that it is all very well with his magic money tree

but when you are in government you have to make difficult decisions. We

will leave it there. Thank you for that.

That is it from what has been a large and raucous debate tonight.

Seven parties taking part. And I should say thank you to the

Cambridge union for allowing us into the hall here. And hopefully we will

not leave it in too much of a mess, but from this BBC election special

on BBC News, many thanks to you for watching. Bye-bye.

for large swathes of the United for large swathes of the United

Kingdom. A pretty decent