Browse content similar to Part One. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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Each one of us as have the chance to say what kind of country we want to | :00:10. | :00:21. | |
live in. At ten o'clock, the polling stations close after weeks, months | :00:22. | :00:24. | |
and years of argument. We will have the answer to the question that has | :00:25. | :00:28. | |
haunted British politics for so long, do we want to be in or out of | :00:29. | :00:34. | |
the EU? There has been the usual round of main players casting their | :00:35. | :00:38. | |
votes. David Cameron was out early in Westminster to cast his ballot. | :00:39. | :00:42. | |
Other leading figures on both sides of the debate as well. There has not | :00:43. | :00:50. | |
been, for many years, a choice that has aroused such passion, splitting | :00:51. | :00:54. | |
families, dividing friends. This is a vote with a difference. No | :00:55. | :00:59. | |
constituencies, no first past the post, every vote will count as equal | :01:00. | :01:04. | |
as this country defines itself. Jeremy Vine is going to be watching | :01:05. | :01:09. | |
for the first sign of a trend, one way or another. I'll be making my | :01:10. | :01:13. | |
way along Downing Street, through the night, watching the votes pilot. | :01:14. | :01:20. | |
Blue for leave, yellow for Remain. Could it be this close? Together, we | :01:21. | :01:26. | |
will find out who is in the lead by the morning. They will be counted | :01:27. | :01:31. | |
locally at 382 centres right across the United Kingdom and one in | :01:32. | :01:34. | |
Gibraltar. We have reporters watching at some of the centre is | :01:35. | :01:42. | |
likely to declare early. Babita Sharma is in Newcastle. Newcastle | :01:43. | :01:46. | |
has been pipped to the post in general elections by local rivals | :01:47. | :01:49. | |
Sunderland. Tonight, it is hoping to become the first area to declare a | :01:50. | :01:54. | |
result in this historic referendum. They think, maybe, possibly, they | :01:55. | :01:59. | |
will have a result here as early as midnight. We will be taking in the | :02:00. | :02:04. | |
results announced locally and analysing them to build a picture of | :02:05. | :02:08. | |
how the country voted and what the result is likely to be. John Curtice | :02:09. | :02:11. | |
and his team have been working for months on how to interpret the early | :02:12. | :02:17. | |
numbers to give us some clue to the answer. Laura Kuenssberg, the BBC | :02:18. | :02:21. | |
political editor, is here to bring news from the two camps and to | :02:22. | :02:24. | |
speculate on the look of the political world we will live in once | :02:25. | :02:30. | |
the referendum is over. Above us, Emily Maitlis, with guests, | :02:31. | :02:40. | |
defectors and the vanquished is and the vanquished. As the story | :02:41. | :02:45. | |
unfolds, we will look at which parts of the campaign worked, which | :02:46. | :02:47. | |
flopped, and if British politics will ever look the same again. The | :02:48. | :02:52. | |
ballot box is open for just a few moments more, and the referendum | :02:53. | :02:54. | |
night drama can begin. When Big Ben strikes ten in a | :02:55. | :03:10. | |
general election, we released the exit poll to give the first | :03:11. | :03:14. | |
indication of who has won. For the referendum, it is not going to be | :03:15. | :03:18. | |
possible. Exit polls work, if they do, by comparing one election with | :03:19. | :03:22. | |
another and measuring the change. It would be crazy to compare this | :03:23. | :03:27. | |
referendum with the one held 41 years ago. So, patience is the | :03:28. | :03:31. | |
watchword as we wait for the first actual declarations to come through. | :03:32. | :03:39. | |
So, Big Ben has struck ten o'clock. We can now start trying to discover | :03:40. | :03:47. | |
which side has carried the day come on the basis of the results that | :03:48. | :03:51. | |
come in. Some of the polls are staying open because the weather has | :03:52. | :03:54. | |
been so frightful in parts of Britain. If you are queueing up to | :03:55. | :03:58. | |
vote, it stays open until you get the chance to vote. We have one bit | :03:59. | :04:03. | |
of news from Gibraltar. It is one hour ahead, so their polls closed an | :04:04. | :04:07. | |
hour ago. At the last general election, they have 71% turnout. | :04:08. | :04:13. | |
This time, 84%, big turnout in Gibraltar. Enthusiasm for the vote. | :04:14. | :04:20. | |
It is one of the things we have been looking for, how big the turnout is. | :04:21. | :04:23. | |
The bigger the turnout, well, you will tell us? The expectation is | :04:24. | :04:28. | |
that the bigger the turnout, the better it is for the In side. The | :04:29. | :04:34. | |
assumption has been that the Out can have the enthusiasm, they have been | :04:35. | :04:38. | |
racing to get to the polls, I have heard, anecdotally, stories of high | :04:39. | :04:42. | |
turnout in almost every part of the country. Politicians have been | :04:43. | :04:45. | |
really struck by that come anecdotes of a turnout of 70 or 80% in some | :04:46. | :04:51. | |
places. The assumption that it helps the Remain side is just that, it is | :04:52. | :04:55. | |
an assumption. Some politicians in the last couple of weeks have also | :04:56. | :04:58. | |
said they have had voters in the kinds of parts of the country where | :04:59. | :05:02. | |
people do not often bother to vote saying that this might motivate them | :05:03. | :05:06. | |
for the first time. Nigel Farage said that his supporters were... | :05:07. | :05:11. | |
What was it? They would crawl over broken glass. That's right. Anyway, | :05:12. | :05:19. | |
the count is done in each area in the 382. It all comes together in | :05:20. | :05:24. | |
the end, in one place. Jo Coburn is in Manchester Town Hall, where the | :05:25. | :05:28. | |
Electoral Commission, as it is called, is overseeing the referendum | :05:29. | :05:31. | |
with a very different procedure from a parliamentary election. Yes, | :05:32. | :05:38. | |
David. You can hear the announcement is being made behind me. I'm at the | :05:39. | :05:42. | |
command and control centre of the whole operation, here in the | :05:43. | :05:46. | |
splendour of Manchester Town Hall. This is where the national result | :05:47. | :05:50. | |
will be announced, on that podium just behind me over my shoulder. | :05:51. | :05:54. | |
That is the announcement of some of the procedure that is going on this | :05:55. | :05:58. | |
evening. Before the national result is announced, we will have other | :05:59. | :06:01. | |
points to make you aware of. Things like the turnout, the critical | :06:02. | :06:05. | |
turnout figure for the national picture, that will be made at some | :06:06. | :06:08. | |
point through the night. We don't know exactly when. That will give us | :06:09. | :06:13. | |
an idea of the tipping point on which side will have won, the 50, | :06:14. | :06:21. | |
plus one, we are calling it, where it is mathematically impossible to | :06:22. | :06:25. | |
catch the other. We have been told by the Electoral Commission that | :06:26. | :06:27. | |
could be a decision by both campaigns to say, you can go ahead | :06:28. | :06:31. | |
and announce the winner and the loser ahead of the official national | :06:32. | :06:35. | |
result. There are other things going on as well. We will have the | :06:36. | :06:38. | |
regional turnout figure for the North and we will have the result | :06:39. | :06:44. | |
for that same region as well. Otherwise, through the evening, we | :06:45. | :06:47. | |
will be seeing campaigners on both sides gathering here to see when | :06:48. | :06:51. | |
they will be able to tell which way the land lies. The thing everybody | :06:52. | :06:58. | |
has been asking me, I expect the same with you, Jeremy, when do we | :06:59. | :07:02. | |
first get an inkling? What is the first result to watch for? People | :07:03. | :07:06. | |
are so keen to see the way that the wind is blowing. What is going to be | :07:07. | :07:12. | |
the moment, and how are we going to be able to tell what is happening? | :07:13. | :07:16. | |
Well, join me here in Downing Street. We thought we should look at | :07:17. | :07:20. | |
the door of Number 10 for a moment. It was the man behind that door that | :07:21. | :07:23. | |
took the gamble on calling this referendum. David, yes, the sequence | :07:24. | :07:31. | |
tonight is very important. Blue for Leave, yellow for Remain, we are | :07:32. | :07:35. | |
going to build the votes up down Downing Street as they come in. | :07:36. | :07:39. | |
Let's look at what we expect by way of timing. You peer down to the end | :07:40. | :07:43. | |
of Downing Street, you can see the first votes appearing. None of them | :07:44. | :07:46. | |
have been counted yet. We are putting them in, 50-50, to show what | :07:47. | :07:52. | |
we are expecting. By midnight, we think Newcastle will be in first, | :07:53. | :07:57. | |
head of Sunderland, probably voting to stay. That is by midnight. Now, | :07:58. | :08:04. | |
after that, by 1am, we are expecting a rather interesting collection, | :08:05. | :08:09. | |
Swindon, which is thought to be voting Out, if previous polls are | :08:10. | :08:15. | |
anything to go by. Bury is 50-50, we should have that by that time of | :08:16. | :08:20. | |
night. We will probably have Orkney as well. Then we move forward, 2am, | :08:21. | :08:24. | |
we started here from London, places like barking, most of London is | :08:25. | :08:34. | |
expected to vote Remain. Westminster and dealing by about 2am. By 3am, | :08:35. | :08:40. | |
some of the big city results, the big numbers coming from the cities, | :08:41. | :08:44. | |
the cities are very powerful because every vote is equal right around the | :08:45. | :08:49. | |
country. By 3am, we think we will hear from Glasgow, Sheffield and | :08:50. | :08:53. | |
Edinburgh. If it starts to be looking very tight around this time | :08:54. | :08:59. | |
of night, 3am, 4am, that could favour Leave. It is thought that the | :09:00. | :09:03. | |
later results will go that way. Let's see. Bye 4am, results are | :09:04. | :09:09. | |
rushing in. We will have a torrent of places like Plymouth, Horsham, | :09:10. | :09:15. | |
Solihull and the biggest, Birmingham, with 700,000 voters by | :09:16. | :09:19. | |
4am. It is thought to be edging towards Leave, but it is too close | :09:20. | :09:24. | |
to have any idea. We don't really know which way any of these are | :09:25. | :09:27. | |
going, we are waiting for the first signs. By 5am, could it be this | :09:28. | :09:31. | |
close? Liverpool and Manchester coming in. By six, if we don't know, | :09:32. | :09:37. | |
we are waiting for Winchester and Leicester. If it is this tight by | :09:38. | :09:42. | |
6am, we might get the result when waved me comes in last. Will it be | :09:43. | :09:47. | |
that close? We will be building the votes up, blue for Leave, yellow for | :09:48. | :09:55. | |
Remain. A night of great suspense. We have put them 50-50, but we don't | :09:56. | :10:01. | |
know what will happen. We are joined by Nicky Morgan, the Education | :10:02. | :10:05. | |
Secretary, from Westminster. We do not know anything, you obviously do, | :10:06. | :10:09. | |
you are at the heart of this. What do you think is happening? Obviously | :10:10. | :10:14. | |
we have a long night ahead. We are confident and hopeful that there | :10:15. | :10:18. | |
will be a victory for the Remain campaign. We will have to see. I | :10:19. | :10:22. | |
would agree from anecdotal evidence that there has been a high turnout, | :10:23. | :10:27. | |
certainly in my own area. We think there was an 85% turnout of postal | :10:28. | :10:32. | |
votes in the charm would cancel area. We will have to see how things | :10:33. | :10:39. | |
transpire. Have you heard, as I have just heard, Nigel Farage has said | :10:40. | :10:46. | |
that Remain might just edge it? Have you heard that? I have just been | :10:47. | :10:52. | |
told that. We will see what happens. Certainly, from the campaigning I | :10:53. | :10:56. | |
was doing, speaking to colleagues across the country, there was a lot | :10:57. | :11:01. | |
of support for the Remain campaign, a lot of people contacting me in the | :11:02. | :11:05. | |
last couple of days, constituents, saying they had made up their minds | :11:06. | :11:09. | |
to decide to support the Remain campaign. This has obviously been a | :11:10. | :11:15. | |
hard-fought contest, great passion on both sides, people are very | :11:16. | :11:18. | |
committed to the arguments. Let's see what happens. I think, | :11:19. | :11:24. | |
obviously, if Remain have won, we will be able to go back to our | :11:25. | :11:27. | |
domestic agenda on Monday has a Government and get on with | :11:28. | :11:31. | |
delivering other important manifesto commitments. Will that apply even if | :11:32. | :11:35. | |
it is a very narrow victory for Remain? Or won't be -- the whole | :11:36. | :11:46. | |
world have changed? If there is a clear win, that is sending a | :11:47. | :11:49. | |
message. One of them is in limiting the reform deal that the Prime | :11:50. | :11:52. | |
Minister secured back in February. The other thing we should not forget | :11:53. | :11:57. | |
is that this Conservative Prime Minister has delivered an in-out | :11:58. | :12:03. | |
referendum, something that was promised, only a year after the | :12:04. | :12:06. | |
general election, it has been delivered, and now there are lots of | :12:07. | :12:10. | |
other things to get on with. The campaign is over, you are a loyal | :12:11. | :12:13. | |
supporter of the Prime Minister, what do you think of the tone of the | :12:14. | :12:18. | |
campaign? Many people, on both sides, say it has been fought in a | :12:19. | :12:22. | |
particularly vicious, rather bitter way that people didn't expect when | :12:23. | :12:27. | |
it began? As I said just now, I think passions run high on both | :12:28. | :12:29. | |
sides. People feel very strongly about this issue. Many people have | :12:30. | :12:35. | |
been campaigning on one side or another for decades. You are going | :12:36. | :12:38. | |
to expect that people are going to make their case with great | :12:39. | :12:46. | |
conviction and not necessarily pull punches. I think we have made a | :12:47. | :12:51. | |
positive campaign on the Remain side, a week ago I was launching the | :12:52. | :12:57. | |
Women For The Main Campaign, setting out the views of women ministers in | :12:58. | :13:01. | |
the Government across a range of areas, positive reasons to remain in | :13:02. | :13:05. | |
the EU, and that is what we have been doing for the last few months. | :13:06. | :13:12. | |
No doubt there have been some rather unpleasant sentiments expressed. The | :13:13. | :13:20. | |
Nigel Farage poster, the leave.EU picture, when they tried to get | :13:21. | :13:23. | |
tangled up in the dreadful events in Orlando. I don't think that has been | :13:24. | :13:29. | |
very tasteful at all. People won't forget that, necessarily. It is | :13:30. | :13:32. | |
important now that we see what the result is. As I say, then we have | :13:33. | :13:37. | |
lots more reform in the EU, but also making sure that we can then deliver | :13:38. | :13:43. | |
the domestic agenda we were elected on a year ago. We were watching the | :13:44. | :13:49. | |
ballot boxes arriving in Sunderland, there is a battle going on between | :13:50. | :13:52. | |
Sunderland and Newcastle. Some people say Sunderland is expected to | :13:53. | :13:59. | |
vote Out, and they are not keen to get it counted too soon, because | :14:00. | :14:05. | |
they depend on Nissan and other car companies that are likely to want to | :14:06. | :14:13. | |
be inside the EU, but that is just a bit of mischief, really. They are | :14:14. | :14:17. | |
rivals on the football field, so if Newcastle do win, there will be loud | :14:18. | :14:21. | |
cheers in Newcastle and maybe Sunderland will not be too | :14:22. | :14:24. | |
miserable. I have just heard from Nicky Morgan, one of the leading | :14:25. | :14:29. | |
figures in the Leave campaign, Iain Duncan Smith, you heard what Nicky | :14:30. | :14:36. | |
Morgan said, let me ask what you think has happened. People are | :14:37. | :14:41. | |
watching your face, like they were watching her face. I hope they are | :14:42. | :14:45. | |
not watching too hard, I have been around too long for them to be | :14:46. | :14:51. | |
scared before we begin this process. We don't want you to be inscrutable? | :14:52. | :14:56. | |
Having campaigned all this time, I'm very glad to find myself at the end | :14:57. | :14:59. | |
of this, it has been pretty exhausting. I have been out all day, | :15:00. | :15:07. | |
banging on doors, getting out the vote for Vote Leave. I genuinely | :15:08. | :15:12. | |
don't have a sense. We are in uncharted territory. We have never | :15:13. | :15:16. | |
have this kind of a referendum. Certainly most people's living | :15:17. | :15:20. | |
memory, yes, in the early days when we first joined. It was different | :15:21. | :15:24. | |
then, pretty much a foregone conclusion. This has been very | :15:25. | :15:29. | |
tight. I was talking to Tom Watson, and we both said, we are in strange | :15:30. | :15:34. | |
territory. Normally, we can be talking to constituencies, with | :15:35. | :15:37. | |
constituency MPs and they will say how it is going in their areas. | :15:38. | :15:41. | |
Here, every single vote counts for the first time. That is quite | :15:42. | :15:45. | |
difficult. Nigel Farage seems to think he knows how it has gone? You | :15:46. | :15:51. | |
roll your eyes? I never quite follow what he says, he often says two | :15:52. | :15:56. | |
things at the same time. A couple of things I have picked up on today, | :15:57. | :16:01. | |
one was that the turnout in council estates is very, very high. I have | :16:02. | :16:06. | |
been in politics 24 years now. I don't think I will have seen | :16:07. | :16:10. | |
turnouts like this in council estates. Turnout is high, I think, | :16:11. | :16:12. | |
everywhere. Are you saying they will vote Leave? | :16:13. | :16:19. | |
All I know is with a I got back from the council estates in Essex is they | :16:20. | :16:26. | |
are up at 80%. You would would be lucky to get 30%-40% % In a general | :16:27. | :16:31. | |
election? We don't know where we are. That makes it difficult call. | :16:32. | :16:38. | |
People who don't normally vote are certainly voting. I'm saying, it's | :16:39. | :16:42. | |
been hard-fought. It's been in many senses great fun. It's been if | :16:43. | :16:46. | |
difficult much we will have to wait a bit and see what the results are. | :16:47. | :16:49. | |
What about the tone of the campaign which, for the Tory party, for | :16:50. | :16:53. | |
instance, people have endlessly said, it got out of hand. Do you | :16:54. | :16:58. | |
think it got out of hand? Look, this is... There really doesn't get a | :16:59. | :17:02. | |
bigger question than this which is, who governs you. That's just so big | :17:03. | :17:08. | |
you're bound to end up families will be split, parties will split, you | :17:09. | :17:12. | |
know, on both sides... You insulting the Chancellor of the Exchequer? You | :17:13. | :17:20. | |
know. You see his nose growing longer. I was thanked by cartoonists | :17:21. | :17:27. | |
for that comment. I don't know how I thought of that. It's the insult we | :17:28. | :17:32. | |
didn't expect. Lies, lies... There has been a bit of that. Passions are | :17:33. | :17:35. | |
high. I don't make bones about it. When are you dealing with an issue | :17:36. | :17:40. | |
as big as this, that matters as much as this. Nothing matters more, | :17:41. | :17:43. | |
really at the end of the day, it boils down to govern you. When it's | :17:44. | :17:47. | |
like that it gets really tense. You know, as well as I, do tensions in | :17:48. | :17:50. | |
parties are much more difficult to contain when there are differences | :17:51. | :17:53. | |
than they are between parties. Between parties it's quite standard, | :17:54. | :17:58. | |
you know, Conservative versus Labour, Liberal Democrats you know | :17:59. | :18:02. | |
what they are going to do. Once a party loses their cohesion for a | :18:03. | :18:06. | |
period, because they are in difficult sides, families break | :18:07. | :18:11. | |
apart for things like this for a while and take chunks out of each | :18:12. | :18:16. | |
other. But they will come back - The Tory party has been torn apart - The | :18:17. | :18:22. | |
Conservative Party has an instinct ultimately I sense when the argument | :18:23. | :18:26. | |
is over they will want to be back. We are in Government. We have to get | :18:27. | :18:29. | |
on with Government whatever happens. As Churchill once said, when asked | :18:30. | :18:34. | |
by a young MP who arrived in after the war he said, wonderful Mr | :18:35. | :18:38. | |
Churchill on the other side are the enemy and all around are our | :18:39. | :18:41. | |
friends. He said, no, no, on the other side are the Opposition all | :18:42. | :18:45. | |
around you are the enemy much you know that as well as I do. People | :18:46. | :18:50. | |
disagree in parties more passionately than with parties on | :18:51. | :18:54. | |
the other side. If it's a narrow victory for Remain, there will be a | :18:55. | :18:57. | |
price the Prime Minister has to pay? For instance, the Chancellor of the | :18:58. | :19:01. | |
Exchequer has been particularly insulted, reviled by people on your | :19:02. | :19:06. | |
side for his Budget, punishment Budget, he was going to have. Will a | :19:07. | :19:09. | |
head roll and it might be his to bring people like you, I'm not | :19:10. | :19:12. | |
saying you are going back into Government, to bring the party back | :19:13. | :19:17. | |
together? I don't make a presuggestions on this one. I have | :19:18. | :19:19. | |
been very clear about the Prime Minister. I said that whatever | :19:20. | :19:22. | |
happens the Prime Minister has a mandate. We want him to continue. | :19:23. | :19:25. | |
Clearly, he has to make decisions about who governs with him and who | :19:26. | :19:29. | |
doesn't. That is his decision, either Remain or Leave there. Are | :19:30. | :19:34. | |
lots of disagreements. Fundamentally disagreed with the Chancellor's | :19:35. | :19:36. | |
position with regards to the Emergency Budget. Lots of us did. | :19:37. | :19:39. | |
You know, that may well be gone. That's the end of it, really. You | :19:40. | :19:43. | |
will stick around for a bit, aren't you? If you would like me to stick | :19:44. | :19:48. | |
around. I would like you to. You are the only person we have here at the | :19:49. | :19:52. | |
moment. On that very high ticket I will stick around. Within an hour we | :19:53. | :19:56. | |
might have something more substantial to talk about. Thank you | :19:57. | :19:58. | |
very much, Iain Duncan We are going Smith. Over to Brussels to our | :19:59. | :20:02. | |
Europe editor, Katya Adler. Can Katya, good evening. We know | :20:03. | :20:07. | |
Brussels have been watching this all very, very closely. What's the mood | :20:08. | :20:11. | |
there tonight? Are they all, sort of, watching the telly and trying to | :20:12. | :20:15. | |
interpret what's happened? Oh, yes. Of course, this was a referendum | :20:16. | :20:20. | |
held in Britain, whether the UK stays in or leaves the EU that has | :20:21. | :20:24. | |
huge implications for the rest of Europe. So this is being watched | :20:25. | :20:28. | |
very closely, not just here in Brussels, but in Warsaw, Paris, | :20:29. | :20:34. | |
Berlin, across Europe. Also across Europe today, town halls flew the | :20:35. | :20:39. | |
Union flag in a sign of solidarity. There are plenty of Europeans who | :20:40. | :20:43. | |
looked at the referendum today in the UK with a big dose of envy. They | :20:44. | :20:48. | |
share a lot of those criticisms of the EU that were highlighted by the | :20:49. | :20:56. | |
Leave campaign. So their worried leaders have talked about reform. | :20:57. | :21:00. | |
Our referendum is seen as a warning that the EU in its current form | :21:01. | :21:04. | |
isn't working and it needs to change. You but the big question in | :21:05. | :21:09. | |
Europe tonight is - can leaders push for reform in the EU alongside | :21:10. | :21:14. | |
Britain? If it votes to Remain. Or will tomb the start of more awkward, | :21:15. | :21:19. | |
rusty relations if the UK chooses to leave? I don't want to be a sceptic | :21:20. | :21:25. | |
about it. Hasn't the EU said it has to work to change, be more | :21:26. | :21:29. | |
democratic, more open open, got to do this and does that and very | :21:30. | :21:32. | |
rarely does anything? Yes, got to be closer to the people. I have been | :21:33. | :21:36. | |
following European politician for a long time thech have constantly said | :21:37. | :21:39. | |
it and never managed it. What is different now, in all the years I've | :21:40. | :21:43. | |
been watching politics. I started in 1996, I have never felt the mood in | :21:44. | :21:48. | |
Europe be more eurosceptic. If you you look across Europe, on the whole | :21:49. | :21:51. | |
that means they want the EU to change. They are not necessarily | :21:52. | :21:54. | |
calling for it to leave. Their leaders are worried. They are | :21:55. | :22:00. | |
looking over their shoulders at increasingly influential | :22:01. | :22:02. | |
eurosceptic, more nationalist minded parties. They know they need to do | :22:03. | :22:06. | |
something. There is a push for reform from the countries of Europe. | :22:07. | :22:11. | |
The 27 countries, apart from the UK. They say that whether or not the UK | :22:12. | :22:16. | |
remains in the EU, they will be pushing for change, but we do know | :22:17. | :22:20. | |
Brussels, change can take some time. Thank you very much, Katya. We will | :22:21. | :22:25. | |
be back with you later on when we get... Well, some results in, I | :22:26. | :22:27. | |
should say. Thank you for joining us. There is news, several | :22:28. | :22:31. | |
Conservative Vote Leave MPs have this evening sent a letter to David | :22:32. | :22:36. | |
Cameron saying he has, "a duty to stay on regardless of the outcome of | :22:37. | :22:42. | |
the referendum" signatures include Boris Johnson and Michael Gove. Do | :22:43. | :22:45. | |
they include Iain Duncan Smith? I wassen asked to sign the letter. I | :22:46. | :22:49. | |
have been public all along to say he has a duty to stay. These are all | :22:50. | :22:53. | |
Cabinet Ministers? I'm not in Government any longer. I assume that | :22:54. | :23:01. | |
is why I wasn't asked. It tells you there is a significant chunk of Out | :23:02. | :23:06. | |
Conservative MPs who feel passionate natly about this who want it get on | :23:07. | :23:09. | |
with it after the result, whatever way it goes. It tells you that | :23:10. | :23:12. | |
people who are loyal to the Prime Minister are worried enough about | :23:13. | :23:15. | |
the outcome that they have felt the need, very strongly, to put in place | :23:16. | :23:19. | |
a, sort of, scaffolding around him to try to protect him, whether or | :23:20. | :23:24. | |
not it's an Out vote, even if it's a very close Remain. That bad feeling | :23:25. | :23:30. | |
you discussed with Ian during this campaign among Conservative MPs has | :23:31. | :23:32. | |
damaged the Prime Minister's reputation in the party as well as | :23:33. | :23:36. | |
the Chancellor's. We can go to Newcastle and see if we are near | :23:37. | :23:43. | |
getting this first result in. Well, we have had pretty dramatic scenes | :23:44. | :23:46. | |
here within the last 15 minutes or so. There are several ballot boxes | :23:47. | :23:52. | |
who have arrived in the hall here. The first one came in a few minutes | :23:53. | :23:57. | |
after the polls closed here at 10.00pm. Fascinating to see the | :23:58. | :24:00. | |
system they have got in place here in Newcastle. What they want to do | :24:01. | :24:06. | |
is two things tonight. They want to beat their longstanding rivals, | :24:07. | :24:08. | |
Sunderland, to declare a result before them. They also want to be | :24:09. | :24:14. | |
the first area in this historic referendum to declare a result. Now, | :24:15. | :24:18. | |
what they've got is a system of runners. Students, around 30 of | :24:19. | :24:24. | |
them, getting in the boxes from the drivers in the car park, running | :24:25. | :24:28. | |
them in, into the tables that you can see here. Their aim is to make | :24:29. | :24:33. | |
sure that not a single table you can see is without counting taking | :24:34. | :24:38. | |
place. There are 129 polling stations in the city of Newcastle. | :24:39. | :24:44. | |
That means 129 ballot boxes need to make their way here. From what we've | :24:45. | :24:52. | |
been hearing from the delivery, counting can take between 20 and 25 | :24:53. | :24:56. | |
minutes. Some people here are particularly optimistic that they | :24:57. | :25:01. | |
may be able to get a result by 11.30pm tonight. Others, a bit more | :25:02. | :25:07. | |
cautiously optimistic, saying midnight. It's interesting to note | :25:08. | :25:11. | |
that, whatever happens here, in terms of the timing, 11.30pm, | :25:12. | :25:19. | |
midnight, 12. 30am it's about voter turnout, that equates to more ballot | :25:20. | :25:23. | |
papers. From what we have been hearing the turnout has been hide. | :25:24. | :25:27. | |
In the region 68% to 70%. It could be higher than that. Newcastle is | :25:28. | :25:33. | |
one of the 30 areas in the UK where the Remain camp are expected to do | :25:34. | :25:39. | |
particularly well. This city has benefitted from EU investment to the | :25:40. | :25:44. | |
tune of ?90 million within the last seven years or so. For a lot of | :25:45. | :25:49. | |
people we have been speaking to it's very much about the economy and job | :25:50. | :25:52. | |
creation in the city that they want to make sure it's secure, whatever | :25:53. | :25:58. | |
the result is tonight. Like I say, the activity continues to flow here | :25:59. | :26:05. | |
in the hall. Yeah, we think, if we're optimistic, possibly, let us | :26:06. | :26:11. | |
hedge our bets, ahead of Sunderland 11.45pm. Thank you very much. It | :26:12. | :26:14. | |
will be important. It will be the first thing we can chew over. Emily | :26:15. | :26:18. | |
has with her two people who are already prepared to say something | :26:19. | :26:23. | |
about all of We will talk about the markets. Their reaction to what they | :26:24. | :26:26. | |
think is happening overnight. First, we will talk to our polling God | :26:27. | :26:32. | |
here, John Curtis. David mentioned there is no exit poll. Explain to us | :26:33. | :26:37. | |
why not. We have what we might call a last on the day poll from YouGov? | :26:38. | :26:42. | |
There isn't ant exit poll. A poll where people have been asked outside | :26:43. | :26:44. | |
the polling station what they have done. YouGov have done what they did | :26:45. | :26:48. | |
at the time of the Scottish independence referendum and last | :26:49. | :26:51. | |
year's general election which is to get hold of people who they have | :26:52. | :26:54. | |
been interviewing during the campaign and ask them - what have | :26:55. | :26:57. | |
you done? On the basis of that YouGov are saying that Remain have | :26:58. | :27:02. | |
got 52% of the vote and Leave have got 48% of the vote. This is the | :27:03. | :27:07. | |
first bit of public intelligence we have about the outcome of this | :27:08. | :27:10. | |
referendum. I'm sorry there isn't an exit poll. As David already | :27:11. | :27:15. | |
explained, methodology of that, which got it right, YouGov's poll | :27:16. | :27:20. | |
didn't get it right last year, that relies on us being able to compare | :27:21. | :27:23. | |
the results this time withlet results last time. Of course, there | :27:24. | :27:26. | |
is no last time. It's, therefore, much more difficult to do. Kamal | :27:27. | :27:30. | |
Ahmed is here, our economics editor, on the strength partly of this and | :27:31. | :27:34. | |
partly what they think has been the sentiment of the week we have seen a | :27:35. | :27:38. | |
strong pound Absolutely. If the markets were deciding this | :27:39. | :27:41. | |
referendum they would already have called it for Remain. The pound is | :27:42. | :27:48. | |
absolutely surging on the markets post-10.00pm post that poll that put | :27:49. | :27:52. | |
Remain ahead. Nearly 150 to the dollar. That's a record high for | :27:53. | :27:59. | |
this year. The pound has had its strongest week, one of its strongest | :28:00. | :28:05. | |
weeks, for nearly 30 years. Clearly, investors think, from the evidence | :28:06. | :28:09. | |
they are seeing from the polls. We think some hedge funds have taking | :28:10. | :28:13. | |
their private polling, and looked at that. They think Remain has had a | :28:14. | :28:18. | |
good day. They know not a lot more than we know here. Certainly in | :28:19. | :28:24. | |
terms. Data there, the FTSE 100, the shares on the FTSE 100 have had a | :28:25. | :28:28. | |
strong day on the markets. Certainly, the signals are that | :28:29. | :28:33. | |
remain has won. Markets aren't political, particularly. They are | :28:34. | :28:36. | |
not saying Remain has won, that is very, very good news. All they mean | :28:37. | :28:39. | |
is, therefore, the uncertainty of what Leave could have brought, they | :28:40. | :28:44. | |
#3w4r50e6d, won't now happen. So, therefore, we can start focussing on | :28:45. | :28:48. | |
the other type of issues, the other problems that Europe has, but one of | :28:49. | :28:51. | |
them won't be that Britain has actually left. John, in terms of | :28:52. | :28:58. | |
early indicators, some are saying Gibraltar is the new Sunderland. | :28:59. | :29:03. | |
When you look at that narrow gap from YouGov, what does that suggest | :29:04. | :29:08. | |
to you are the factors at play there? Gibraltar we expect to vote | :29:09. | :29:15. | |
for Remain. The turnout at 84% is extraordinary high. Gibraltar the | :29:16. | :29:23. | |
implications of the UK leaving with its relation with Spain is | :29:24. | :29:26. | |
fundamental. Newcastle and Sunderland are different. Newcastle | :29:27. | :29:31. | |
has substantial university, plenty of graduates living there. That is | :29:32. | :29:34. | |
the place where we expect Remain to do relatively well. In contrast, | :29:35. | :29:40. | |
Sunderland, much more working-class. Smaller university community. That | :29:41. | :29:44. | |
is somewhere where we would expect leave Leave not to do #w8, but | :29:45. | :29:48. | |
relatively well. If the Remain side were to win in Sunderland that would | :29:49. | :29:53. | |
be good news for them. That would be an indication that, perhaps, indeed | :29:54. | :29:58. | |
we have voted to remain. The truth is, even if the 52-48 from YouGov is | :29:59. | :30:05. | |
right. The Leave side might narrowly lead in Sunderland. We have had | :30:06. | :30:09. | |
different weather in the north and south of the country, we wonder | :30:10. | :30:16. | |
whether that will have played out? Back to David. | :30:17. | :30:22. | |
We are so wet here, we thought people wouldn't turn up, we thought | :30:23. | :30:27. | |
I might do the broadcast on my own. You will see it when we go to | :30:28. | :30:34. | |
Broadcasting House, this is the facade of Broadcasting House in | :30:35. | :30:37. | |
London. All Saints Church on the right, this famous building, home to | :30:38. | :30:41. | |
the BBC, from which the voice of the BBC has gone out across the world | :30:42. | :30:47. | |
for scores of years. Tonight, there will go the figures. You will see | :30:48. | :30:50. | |
the scoreboard that tells us Britain's future. Passers-by on the | :30:51. | :30:56. | |
street, that are not watching the television or listening to the | :30:57. | :30:59. | |
radio, will be able to see what has happened. So, we will have more back | :31:00. | :31:10. | |
here, but let's just first of all have, as important, as always, a | :31:11. | :31:15. | |
round of the news. Counting has begun of millions | :31:16. | :31:18. | |
of votes cast across the UK A record 46 million people | :31:19. | :31:25. | |
were entitled to vote on whether to Remain In or to Leave | :31:26. | :31:28. | |
the European Union. The first results are likely to be | :31:29. | :31:31. | |
announced in the early hours of tomorrow morning, | :31:32. | :31:34. | |
with the final outcome expected In the south-east flooding, | :31:35. | :31:36. | |
caused by heavy rain, led to several polling stations | :31:37. | :31:39. | |
having to be relocated. Here's our political | :31:40. | :31:41. | |
correspondent, Iain Watson. This report contains some flashing | :31:42. | :31:46. | |
images. After an intense four | :31:47. | :31:49. | |
month long campaign, it was perhaps hardly surprising | :31:50. | :31:51. | |
that David Cameron and his wife, Samantha, were keen to vote not long | :31:52. | :31:54. | |
after the polls opened this morning. Tonight, some Conservative MPs have | :31:55. | :32:06. | |
sent a letter of support, urging him to stay on, no matter what the | :32:07. | :32:11. | |
result. Boris Johnson was amongst the last to vote to Leave, declaring | :32:12. | :32:20. | |
that democracy has been served. He was also a signatory to the letter | :32:21. | :32:23. | |
urging David Cameron to stay in post. | :32:24. | :32:24. | |
The last referendum on EU membership was four decades ago, in 1975, | :32:25. | :32:27. | |
some voters will remember it well, others were having their say | :32:28. | :32:30. | |
And, yes, that even includes Nigel Farage, he's made this | :32:31. | :32:33. | |
referendum the mission of his entire political career. | :32:34. | :32:36. | |
I've wanted this vote, you know, all my adult life. | :32:37. | :32:42. | |
It is now reported he thinks Remain might have the edge. | :32:43. | :32:47. | |
The SNP had warned that Brexit could lead to another referendum | :32:48. | :32:50. | |
on Scottish independence, but in Glasgow the party's pro-EU | :32:51. | :32:52. | |
leader, Nicola Sturgeon, voted to Remain and sounded | :32:53. | :32:54. | |
The Electoral Commission said voting had been busy and brisk and some | :32:55. | :33:01. | |
voters had to demonstrate greater determination than the politicians | :33:02. | :33:03. | |
Some refused to be put off by a little bit of rain, | :33:04. | :33:10. | |
but one polling station, in south-West London, | :33:11. | :33:12. | |
In this referendum, every vote counted. | :33:13. | :33:17. | |
There were no marginal contituencies, so decisions taken | :33:18. | :33:22. | |
by each of us, in polling stations like this up-and-down the country, | :33:23. | :33:25. | |
will now reverberate, not just at Westminster, | :33:26. | :33:28. | |
not just in Brussels, but in major capitals | :33:29. | :33:29. | |
The official UK-wide result will be delivered here, in Manchester, | :33:30. | :33:36. | |
It could of course be close, but what would happen | :33:37. | :33:42. | |
If it's a dead heat, then it's a dead heat. | :33:43. | :33:46. | |
It's an advisory referendum and that's what I would declare. | :33:47. | :33:51. | |
Whatever the voters' verdict, this referendum will have | :33:52. | :33:53. | |
It's not clear yet whether there'll be an outpouring of peace and love | :33:54. | :33:59. | |
between former opponents or whether divisions | :34:00. | :34:00. | |
The pound has risen to its highest level this year against the dollar | :34:01. | :34:17. | |
and is on track for one of the strongest weekly performances for | :34:18. | :34:23. | |
many years. When the New York stock exchange closed, it was trading at | :34:24. | :34:24. | |
just over $1. A man has been jailed for life | :34:25. | :34:30. | |
for plotting a beheading on the streets of London, | :34:31. | :34:33. | |
inspired by so-called Islamic State, which could have | :34:34. | :34:35. | |
targetted a poppy seller. 23-year-old Nadir Syed | :34:36. | :34:37. | |
was arrested in November 2014, One of the world's longest running | :34:38. | :34:39. | |
civil wars, in Colombia, has been brought to an end | :34:40. | :34:48. | |
after more than 50 The so-called FARC rebels have | :34:49. | :34:51. | |
signed a deal to lay down their arms following three | :34:52. | :34:55. | |
years of negotiations. More than 200,000 people were killed | :34:56. | :34:57. | |
during the conflict. As we've been hearing, | :34:58. | :35:05. | |
storms and heavy rain have caused serious flooding in parts of London | :35:06. | :35:07. | |
and in south-east England. Several commuter and Underground | :35:08. | :35:10. | |
lines in the capital suffered There were more problems this | :35:11. | :35:12. | |
evening as commuters tried to get Players from the three | :35:13. | :35:17. | |
Home Nations who've made it through to the knockout stages | :35:18. | :35:23. | |
of Euro 2016 - England, Wales and Northern Ireland - | :35:24. | :35:25. | |
have been speaking of their hopes. England face Iceland | :35:26. | :35:29. | |
on Monday, but it's Wales and Northern Ireland that are first, | :35:30. | :35:32. | |
going head-to-head on Saturday. Our sports correspondent, | :35:33. | :35:34. | |
Olly Foster, reports. Between them, they've been waiting | :35:35. | :35:38. | |
88 years to see their teams play on the big stage, | :35:39. | :35:44. | |
win or lose, the fans have been The Wales and Northern Ireland | :35:45. | :35:47. | |
players have given their all and been rewarded - | :35:48. | :35:51. | |
a match against each other, The atmosphere we'll be tremendous, | :35:52. | :35:53. | |
as good as maybe any You know, our fans have been | :35:54. | :36:03. | |
terrific. You've seen what we've all seen, | :36:04. | :36:06. | |
you know, how good they've been And the Welsh fans will be | :36:07. | :36:09. | |
very, very similar. Northern Ireland found out that | :36:10. | :36:15. | |
they'll be playing Wales after this result last night, | :36:16. | :36:17. | |
the Republic of Ireland's late winner against Italy that | :36:18. | :36:20. | |
saw them go through. Their fans' unwavering support has | :36:21. | :36:23. | |
been a tournament highlight. National pride is certainly | :36:24. | :36:26. | |
something that will be driving on the Welsh as they get ready | :36:27. | :36:28. | |
for the Northern Irish. All happy to be playing for Wales | :36:29. | :36:31. | |
and honouring the nation, trying to do everybody proud and, | :36:32. | :36:38. | |
for us, that's, I suppose, the biggest responsibility we've got | :36:39. | :36:43. | |
is to make our country proud of us That match in Paris on Saturday | :36:44. | :36:46. | |
of course guarantees that there's going to be a Home Nation | :36:47. | :36:51. | |
in the quarter-finals. Here at their training camp | :36:52. | :36:54. | |
in Chantilly, England should be feeling much happier | :36:55. | :36:57. | |
about their chances That's because they're facing | :36:58. | :36:58. | |
Iceland, the lowest-ranked With a population the size | :36:59. | :37:04. | |
of Leicester, this is how the commentator on national | :37:05. | :37:09. | |
television described their injury-time winner | :37:10. | :37:11. | |
against Austria. England's job will be | :37:12. | :37:16. | |
to keep him quiet. They've done well so far, | :37:17. | :37:21. | |
but we know it's going to be a tough It's important we play with a real | :37:22. | :37:26. | |
high-tempo and make them work, try and tire them out and then take | :37:27. | :37:35. | |
the chances when they come. We have to be ruthless and try | :37:36. | :37:38. | |
and punish them them England's punishment for finishing | :37:39. | :37:41. | |
behind Wales in their Group is a path towards the final, | :37:42. | :37:47. | |
fraught with danger. European giants lie in wait | :37:48. | :37:49. | |
beyond the next round. The trouble is, Iceland | :37:50. | :37:53. | |
won't be scared either. Olly Foster, BBC News, | :37:54. | :37:57. | |
Chantilly. I'll be back with more updates | :37:58. | :38:02. | |
throughout the night. And now the waiting - | :38:03. | :38:05. | |
to find out if London is in favour of remaining | :38:06. | :38:33. | |
in the European Union or leaving. Let's cross now to our political | :38:34. | :38:36. | |
editor, Tim Donovan, who is at Guildhall where the result | :38:37. | :38:38. | |
will be declared sometime There is a' the hope and intention. | :38:39. | :38:48. | |
No counting going on heemplt the counting is going on in the 33 | :38:49. | :38:54. | |
London boroughs. The votes currently being taken to those locations, from | :38:55. | :39:01. | |
3,800 polling stations. Speculation that the weather may affect the | :39:02. | :39:06. | |
delivery of those votes but, on the other hand, the reports are turnout, | :39:07. | :39:11. | |
anecdotally, anyway, has been high and London could have, as we know, | :39:12. | :39:16. | |
an important impact with 5 million voters. It's mayor, new mayor, Sadiq | :39:17. | :39:23. | |
Khan voted earlier this morning. No secret about the way he was going. | :39:24. | :39:27. | |
He has been very vocal in calling for London and the UK to remain. | :39:28. | :39:34. | |
It is the most important vote of my generation. | :39:35. | :39:37. | |
The European Union, imperfect as the European Union is, | :39:38. | :39:41. | |
it is crucial for jobs, for trade, for investment, for low prices and | :39:42. | :39:44. | |
if we have decided to leave, then we've left for good. | :39:45. | :39:48. | |
So each of the boroughs will do its own counting. Relate result here. So | :39:49. | :39:55. | |
we will get results of boroughs through the night. It is thought | :39:56. | :39:59. | |
Wandsworth may be the first one, around 12.30. The City of London, | :40:00. | :40:03. | |
where we are here, could follow soon after. But the realistic expectation | :40:04. | :40:10. | |
is you won't get London-wide declaration until at least 5.00am | :40:11. | :40:15. | |
and we know recent experience shows us, doesn't it, Riz, that things | :40:16. | :40:18. | |
don't always go smoothly in the capital. | :40:19. | :40:18. | |
It certainly does. Commuters had a difficult journey | :40:19. | :40:23. | |
home tonight after flash flooding brought widespread disruption | :40:24. | :40:26. | |
to parts of the capital. A month's worth of rain fell in just | :40:27. | :40:28. | |
a couple of hours overnight. This was the scene at Waterloo | :40:29. | :40:30. | |
earlier this evening. the transport network. | :40:31. | :40:33. | |
and cancellations across Fire crews battled throughout | :40:34. | :40:43. | |
the day to pump out water Most of the water's gone | :40:44. | :40:45. | |
but the mess remains, hours Didn't really understand | :40:46. | :40:54. | |
what was going on. I thought I was in a dream | :40:55. | :41:06. | |
and then realised I wasn't. It was a morning of cleaning up | :41:07. | :41:13. | |
the best they could. Dozens of homes here finding | :41:14. | :41:15. | |
themselves under a foot of water Liz Owen managed to rescue | :41:16. | :41:17. | |
lots of her valuables. Sewage was coming | :41:18. | :41:27. | |
out of the toilets. We're just trying to make plans | :41:28. | :41:36. | |
to pack up what we can and find some This basement flat around | :41:37. | :41:44. | |
the corner faired no better. We were in about this | :41:45. | :41:50. | |
much worth of water. We are all basements, | :41:51. | :41:52. | |
so it was everywhere. All in the bottom of our drawers, | :41:53. | :41:58. | |
all in the bottom of the wardrobes. He was floating around | :41:59. | :42:01. | |
like he was in an arc. Outside was the worst and you know, | :42:02. | :42:06. | |
it was at least a foot, The flooding also caused roads to be | :42:07. | :42:13. | |
shut in Battersea but out in Romford 60 homes were flood | :42:14. | :42:18. | |
when the River Rom burst its banks and in Canning Town, | :42:19. | :42:20. | |
the DLR station was shut And on referendum day, | :42:21. | :42:23. | |
Kingston upon Thames one of the boroughs that had to move | :42:24. | :42:27. | |
polling stations Commuters, too, have faced | :42:28. | :42:30. | |
difficult journeys with tube We have been successful in | :42:31. | :42:35. | |
progressively opening more railway The rain is forecast to stop this | :42:36. | :42:41. | |
evening and we have more people out this evening and throughout | :42:42. | :42:46. | |
the night to improve the resilience of the network, | :42:47. | :42:49. | |
so we can deliver the best service we can this evening | :42:50. | :42:52. | |
but I would advise people The Fire Brigade said it dealt | :42:53. | :42:55. | |
with more than 500 calls in just They've spent the day cleaning | :42:56. | :43:00. | |
up across the capital. The world's longest | :43:01. | :43:07. | |
and tallest tunnel slide opens The Orbit slide, on the Queen | :43:08. | :43:09. | |
Elizabeth Olympic Park, is not As our reporter Marc Ashdown | :43:10. | :43:15. | |
found out. Welcome to the top | :43:16. | :43:20. | |
of the Orbital Tower. We're 76m above street level | :43:21. | :43:24. | |
and you can see Now from tomorrow, getting down | :43:25. | :43:26. | |
from here is going to be A 40 second descent, | :43:27. | :43:34. | |
at speeds of a 15 miles per hour. A little wit woozy, | :43:35. | :43:41. | |
a little wit woozy. Well, that pleasurable experience | :43:42. | :43:55. | |
will set you back ?15. Well, you can judge | :43:56. | :43:57. | |
for yourself from tomorrow. Well, after today, | :43:58. | :44:05. | |
let's get the latest Certainly a roller coaster wlth over | :44:06. | :44:16. | |
the past day. The vicious thunderstorms that caused the | :44:17. | :44:19. | |
problems problems a fading and tomorrow a decent day. It won't be | :44:20. | :44:23. | |
as humid. Quite humid and muggy tonight. A another difficult night | :44:24. | :44:30. | |
for sleeping. Not as warm as last night, dropping down to 15 by dawn. | :44:31. | :44:35. | |
Tomorrow, decent day, dry, bright sunny spells and it won't be that | :44:36. | :44:41. | |
humid A few showers during the day, maybe. In the sunshine feeling warm, | :44:42. | :44:47. | |
22, 23. One or two showers possible in the evening but most places | :44:48. | :44:50. | |
staying dry overnight. A fine start to the weekend. There will be | :44:51. | :44:55. | |
showers on Saturday. Sunday looks dry and hopefully Monday dry, too, | :44:56. | :44:57. | |
the start of Wimbledon. That's all from the London | :44:58. | :45:01. | |
team this evening. Tom Watson has joined us. Good | :45:02. | :45:31. | |
evening. Do you know something we don't know? No. Ian was saying he | :45:32. | :45:47. | |
has seen an 80% turnout on council estates. The Leave campaign are | :45:48. | :45:53. | |
hoping it is the Brexit vote coming out. Do you think it was a likely | :45:54. | :45:57. | |
interpretation? I don't know how anybody can say that. All around the | :45:58. | :46:06. | |
country, our teams say there has been a good turnout. During the | :46:07. | :46:10. | |
campaign, you were quite critical in a polite, famously gentle and polite | :46:11. | :46:17. | |
way, about the way Labour was perceived by the voters. We have to | :46:18. | :46:23. | |
redouble our efforts, you said. What was the problem? | :46:24. | :46:28. | |
It was certainly in the mid part of the campaign. I think we have | :46:29. | :46:33. | |
improved on that in the last sort of 10 days of the campaign. We just had | :46:34. | :46:37. | |
very difficult... It was difficult for us to get air time. When you | :46:38. | :46:44. | |
have these kind of big figures and the Government slugging it out it | :46:45. | :46:47. | |
was difficult to get our message over. We took an early decision we | :46:48. | :46:52. | |
wanted a separate Labour In campaign because we thought we had things we | :46:53. | :46:55. | |
had to say that David Cameron couldn't or wouldn't say, | :46:56. | :46:58. | |
particularly about, woers' rights, particularly about the kind of | :46:59. | :47:01. | |
social Europe, a workers Europe we wanted to see in the future. Your | :47:02. | :47:06. | |
leader, Jeremy Corbyn, famously said, when asked, on a scale of one | :47:07. | :47:11. | |
to ten, are in in favour of the EU he said seven-and-a-half? He did. | :47:12. | :47:15. | |
Not a great battle cry for the Labour Party? He said it in | :47:16. | :47:19. | |
fantastic style in a white fur coat as well. It deeply impressed me, | :47:20. | :47:24. | |
David. What I think it showed was. He is in touch with with where the | :47:25. | :47:29. | |
British people are. He consistently said he wanted us to remain in the | :47:30. | :47:32. | |
European Union but reform the European Union. You know, he sees it | :47:33. | :47:36. | |
as an imperfect institution that needs reform. You can only do that | :47:37. | :47:39. | |
if you're around the negotiating table. On one of the key issues, | :47:40. | :47:43. | |
immigration, you will remember he was asked whether there was any | :47:44. | :47:48. | |
upper limit, he said no. You feel that, actually, Labour should focus | :47:49. | :47:52. | |
on the levels of immigration if it's to keep the support of party | :47:53. | :47:56. | |
members? We certainly both agree we needed to look at at the impact of | :47:57. | :48:01. | |
the rules across the EU on the other hand how that lites labour markets. | :48:02. | :48:04. | |
We did try in the campaign to get positive suggestions over. We think | :48:05. | :48:09. | |
there are things you can do now. We wanted to reinstate the Migrant | :48:10. | :48:15. | |
Impact Fund. It helps communities dealing with migrants with school | :48:16. | :48:19. | |
provision and GP provision. We also think the Government could end this | :48:20. | :48:23. | |
unscrupulous practice of some employers advertising jobs in the UK | :48:24. | :48:28. | |
abroad but not in the UK. It's manifestly unfair. Do you think that | :48:29. | :48:35. | |
Labour supporters will divide 50/50 on this issue of whether to stay in | :48:36. | :48:39. | |
or out? I think we - we will ask Iain Duncan Smith, he's here. A lot | :48:40. | :48:43. | |
of people on the Brexit side will be saying that those are the people who | :48:44. | :48:47. | |
are going to vote for Leave? I simply don't know. I can only go on | :48:48. | :48:51. | |
what the recent polls say. Of course, we shouldn't believe that | :48:52. | :48:55. | |
anything we read in the polls these days. It certainly seemed to me | :48:56. | :49:00. | |
about 68% of Labour supporters were voting to Remain. If that turns out | :49:01. | :49:05. | |
to be the case it will show that more of our supporters supported our | :49:06. | :49:08. | |
position than any other political party much I don't think we can tell | :49:09. | :49:12. | |
that either. Do you agree with that Iain? I haven't seen any real | :49:13. | :49:16. | |
figures about it. You were talking about 80% turnout in council estates | :49:17. | :49:20. | |
and thinking that was going to benefit the Leave side? I wasn't | :49:21. | :49:24. | |
making a pregeneral election. The high turnout in the housing estates | :49:25. | :49:28. | |
suggests something peculiar. Something has engaged them and they | :49:29. | :49:31. | |
want to turn out. There have been big issues in the campaign which | :49:32. | :49:34. | |
have a lot of the debate centred around what has been the impact of | :49:35. | :49:39. | |
uncontrolled migration from the European Union on low skilled | :49:40. | :49:42. | |
workers and some of the Bank of England staff made it very clear | :49:43. | :49:46. | |
that has pushed wages down. This has posed a big challenge for Labour, | :49:47. | :49:50. | |
Tom will be the first to accept admit this, in various areas, | :49:51. | :49:52. | |
particularly around northern England, there has been an issue | :49:53. | :49:56. | |
about this and the east of England where they feel nobody has been | :49:57. | :50:00. | |
talking to them. That is the big debate on theest states they say - | :50:01. | :50:04. | |
no-one bothers with us and we have a real When we get problem. Our first | :50:05. | :50:08. | |
result in, what we and you will be looking for is some indication of | :50:09. | :50:12. | |
what it means. Now, we've tried to work out a way of assembling these | :50:13. | :50:18. | |
382, we have to call them, they are actually local authorities, where | :50:19. | :50:21. | |
the count is done, these counting centres, 382 of them. We have worked | :50:22. | :50:26. | |
out a way... Well, Jeremy and John Curtice have, of trying to measure, | :50:27. | :50:30. | |
when you get the first result or second result in, what does it | :50:31. | :50:34. | |
actually mean. You have to watch quite carefully. It's complicated | :50:35. | :50:39. | |
but it makes very good sense. I think it did when I saw it. Let me | :50:40. | :50:45. | |
show you our counting index. He we will come back to it again and | :50:46. | :50:50. | |
again. 382 county areas. On the wall here they are in alphabetical order. | :50:51. | :50:57. | |
They are in size is crucial here. The bars size denotes the number of | :50:58. | :51:01. | |
people in that counting area. For example, over here, Northern | :51:02. | :51:04. | |
Ireland, for our purposes counting as one area, the longest bar. A tiny | :51:05. | :51:10. | |
one just there, a small bar. We have put 50/50, blue for leave, yellow | :51:11. | :51:14. | |
for remain, we have no results in. It's a way of showing you the | :51:15. | :51:17. | |
counting areas laid out in an index. We can go one better. Let me show | :51:18. | :51:23. | |
you what happens if I order them, based on the analysis we've done | :51:24. | :51:28. | |
from most Leave to most Remain. Right over here, the counting areas | :51:29. | :51:34. | |
that we think are most likely to vote Leave, based on an analysis of | :51:35. | :51:37. | |
how many pensioners who are likely to vote Out, how many graduates | :51:38. | :51:41. | |
likely to vote In and other factors. Right at the far end you can see how | :51:42. | :51:45. | |
many there are, 382, the most likely to vote Remain. As results come in, | :51:46. | :51:50. | |
we will see where the counting area is on this index. We will be able to | :51:51. | :51:53. | |
say - that's maybe not what we expected. It's a surprise or perhaps | :51:54. | :51:58. | |
the Leave vote is stronger than we thought, etc lechlt me focus a bit | :51:59. | :52:01. | |
for you and show one end of this index. We flashed the 40. The most | :52:02. | :52:10. | |
Leave areas. I will show you on the map. You can see where they are | :52:11. | :52:16. | |
gathered. A lot in the east of England, Thames gateway, etc. I will | :52:17. | :52:21. | |
name them for you. The most Leave area, according to our analysis, in | :52:22. | :52:25. | |
the country, the place most likely to vote Out is Boston in | :52:26. | :52:29. | |
Lincolnshire. Crucial to us are one or two areas that are coming in | :52:30. | :52:34. | |
early. Which might give us an early sign. Castle Point, for example, on | :52:35. | :52:40. | |
the far end of euroscepticism. Also, let's have a look, one other we are | :52:41. | :52:50. | |
being looking for Basildon. We will put the colours in proportionately | :52:51. | :52:55. | |
according to the vote. The winning colour will be on the top. Worth | :52:56. | :53:00. | |
watching out for Basildon and Castlepoint to see whether the Leave | :53:01. | :53:04. | |
vote is as strong in the areas as we expect I will take you to the Remain | :53:05. | :53:10. | |
end. We will look at the 40 here. We talked a lot about Newcastle coming | :53:11. | :53:13. | |
in first and so on. That's far off to this end on Remain much I will | :53:14. | :53:17. | |
show you where. This will be a result to watch for. Here are the | :53:18. | :53:26. | |
Remains. Wandsworth here, thought to be early, before 1.00am much we will | :53:27. | :53:31. | |
watch for Wandsworth. On the far end of Remain, the most euro | :53:32. | :53:38. | |
enthusiastic Remain, Gibraltar. You can guess them, the student profile, | :53:39. | :53:45. | |
academics voting to stay in In. City of London expected early. 7,000 | :53:46. | :53:49. | |
voters there in the Square Mile of the City of London. Newcastle, which | :53:50. | :53:53. | |
we think will be first, it's in the Remain end. The 40 areas we think | :53:54. | :53:57. | |
most likely to vote Remain. The significance of that. If the Leave | :53:58. | :54:01. | |
vote is strong in Newcastle, you might start to think something is | :54:02. | :54:06. | |
up. I will take you baccalaureate to our index. We have the colours now | :54:07. | :54:10. | |
because we have no results. When the results come in I grey them out. We | :54:11. | :54:18. | |
will see whether this index can give us an early sense of the drift of | :54:19. | :54:23. | |
the results, David. Thank you, Jeremy. Tom Watson and Iain Duncan | :54:24. | :54:29. | |
Smith are slow on the takeup on this one! No, I worked it out. Oh, you | :54:30. | :54:33. | |
worked it out, did you? They were looking at it saying - I said, do | :54:34. | :54:38. | |
you understand it? Oh, I don't know. Jeremy, perhaps just one thing to | :54:39. | :54:43. | |
clarify. Blue is Out, yellow is Remain. Yes. How have you worked out | :54:44. | :54:52. | |
the likeliest to be exit and the likest to be Remain. What are the | :54:53. | :54:55. | |
assumptions you made and maybe they will understand it. Half a dozen | :54:56. | :54:59. | |
factors. Things like the greater number of pensioners in an area, the | :55:00. | :55:05. | |
more likely it is to vote Out. More senior citizens tend to vote Out. | :55:06. | :55:09. | |
Got it. Not looking at you there, Iain. Got it. The more graduates in | :55:10. | :55:14. | |
an area, the more likely it is to vote In. You look at the number of | :55:15. | :55:20. | |
ethnic minority voters in an area. You look at Ukip support in the last | :55:21. | :55:25. | |
elections. We have half a dozen, put them together - Tom is looking | :55:26. | :55:28. | |
doubtful here - He's getting it. Slowly. What will be interesting, we | :55:29. | :55:33. | |
could have a situation where the eskwens is correct it moves one way | :55:34. | :55:40. | |
or the another. Later on we will show you the middle 40. That is | :55:41. | :55:45. | |
where the action will be. We expect those to go 50/50 in the event of a | :55:46. | :55:48. | |
split result across the country. That is the place you look for - A | :55:49. | :55:53. | |
little bit more detail, do you think. He wants it in more detail. | :55:54. | :56:01. | |
4.00am! What we could say simply. It's like a litmus test of each | :56:02. | :56:07. | |
result. Do you know what a litmus test is? Yes, of course I do. To | :56:08. | :56:15. | |
take a crazy example. We said Boston comes out for Remain, very early on, | :56:16. | :56:21. | |
Laura will be all over that. Saying, my goodness this is extraordinary | :56:22. | :56:24. | |
much you will get a sense, I think, of what the results mean. Right. | :56:25. | :56:30. | |
Well, while we absorb all that, let us go | :56:31. | :56:43. | |
to Sunderland. We were told Sunderland didn't want to come first | :56:44. | :56:50. | |
they didn't want to upset Nissan. They are not counting quite as fast | :56:51. | :56:55. | |
as Newcastle, true? Well, I tell you what, well, I tell you what, I'm | :56:56. | :56:59. | |
looking at those counting here and we've been talking to some of the | :57:00. | :57:02. | |
count being officers. They are employing bank tellers who are | :57:03. | :57:05. | |
really experienced at counting money really, really quickly. They are | :57:06. | :57:09. | |
frantically counting. I don't know if those who are counting want to | :57:10. | :57:12. | |
delay the result for Newcastle, I can't comment on that at all. What I | :57:13. | :57:17. | |
can tell you is that so far we understand that Sunderland has | :57:18. | :57:22. | |
around 207,000 people on the Electoral Register. Interestingly, | :57:23. | :57:27. | |
89,000 of those registered for postal votes. That may delay some of | :57:28. | :57:31. | |
the counting and some of the time that we get back when we are | :57:32. | :57:35. | |
expecting to return am we are expecting - we were told to expect a | :57:36. | :57:42. | |
result around 12.30am thatle might slip back to 1.00am. Those in the | :57:43. | :57:48. | |
Remain camp spoke to the BBC saying that they were taking a look at | :57:49. | :57:54. | |
gauging the postal results. The effort they have been putting in | :57:55. | :57:59. | |
from the Labour campaign, the Labour Remain campaign, 26 Labour MPs in | :58:00. | :58:03. | |
this region. 25 of those for the Remain camp much they have made a | :58:04. | :58:06. | |
concerted effort on the doorsteps. They think they have made a | :58:07. | :58:10. | |
difference to the Remain call or for people to back them in the Remain | :58:11. | :58:14. | |
camp. That is the picture here so far. Expecting a result around | :58:15. | :58:24. | |
00.30am to 1.00am it is likely to be after Newcastle. Sunderland came | :58:25. | :58:28. | |
first in the general election. It's not going to happen this time | :58:29. | :58:34. | |
around. Before we go to Basildon. Nigel Farage has now unconceded | :58:35. | :58:38. | |
having - What did I tell you! You said it. I said he would do it. You | :58:39. | :58:42. | |
said he would do both things. Some he has. Clive Myrie is in Basildon. | :58:43. | :58:47. | |
How are things there and when do you expect to come... Incidentally, | :58:48. | :58:50. | |
what's the turnout there, has it been very big? It's been huge, | :58:51. | :58:55. | |
actually, David. One of the officials told me that they reckon | :58:56. | :58:59. | |
turnout is anything from 70% to 75%. Much higher than for a normal | :59:00. | :59:03. | |
general election. They have been counting here for about 45 minutes | :59:04. | :59:07. | |
now. Pretty much all the ballot boxes are in. They have been pushing | :59:08. | :59:10. | |
them in on Asda shopping trolleys, which has been a bit of a sight to | :59:11. | :59:14. | |
behold. Bearing in mind both sides have been shopping for votes over | :59:15. | :59:18. | |
the last few weeks maybe it's not surprising. Given that Ukip was the | :59:19. | :59:22. | |
only party here, David, to increase its number of seats on the borough | :59:23. | :59:25. | |
council in the local elections, you get a pretty good sense of how the | :59:26. | :59:29. | |
wind is blowing here. This is eurosceptic country. There is no | :59:30. | :59:35. | |
question about that. The real issue is how big the proportion of the | :59:36. | :59:38. | |
vote the Leave campaign wins tonight. As I said, turnout has been | :59:39. | :59:42. | |
very high. That will be crucial. The weather has been awful here | :59:43. | :59:46. | |
throughout the day. You have needed waders to cross the road at times | :59:47. | :59:50. | |
today. The turnout has been enormous. The percentage of the vote | :59:51. | :59:55. | |
has been high, too. Local polls coming into the referendum today | :59:56. | :00:00. | |
suggested that Leave might get something like 70%-75% of the vote. | :00:01. | :00:05. | |
If that is bourne out, with the final referendum result, that could | :00:06. | :00:09. | |
potentially suggest that Leave might do well nationally. Basildon has | :00:10. | :00:12. | |
been a bellwether in general elections. It could be a bellwether | :00:13. | :00:16. | |
in this referendum as well. If the Leave vote is lower than that, | :00:17. | :00:22. | |
anything from 60%-65% that suggests that Remain have done a little bit | :00:23. | :00:25. | |
better that could mean that Remain have done a little bit better | :00:26. | :00:29. | |
nationally as well. We are expecting the result here about 00.30am going | :00:30. | :00:35. | |
on to 1.00am. It will be fascinating to see what happens. Thank you very | :00:36. | :00:36. | |
much. Let's go to Swindon. Swindon is less | :00:37. | :00:48. | |
Brexit, but what has the turn been? We are hearing from both sides that | :00:49. | :00:52. | |
turnout has been very high. There has been consistent polling all day | :00:53. | :00:56. | |
long. We know in terms of postal votes there has been a particularly | :00:57. | :01:00. | |
high return. One of the main electoral officials was telling me | :01:01. | :01:05. | |
that by mid-afternoon, 85% of all postal votes had already been | :01:06. | :01:11. | |
returned. That is considerably up on a general election, getting on for | :01:12. | :01:15. | |
20% higher than you would expect at a general election. That is | :01:16. | :01:19. | |
interesting. Here in Swindon, all boxes are here. They are all back. | :01:20. | :01:23. | |
That happened, getting on for 15 minutes ago. They are steaming | :01:24. | :01:27. | |
ahead, counting of the postal ballots began on the dot of ten | :01:28. | :01:33. | |
o'clock this evening. Apologies if it sounds as if I am broadcasting | :01:34. | :01:36. | |
from a nightclub, it feels like I am. We have had some very loud music | :01:37. | :01:42. | |
playing. The killjoys at the BBC had it turned off for a while, I said it | :01:43. | :01:47. | |
makes it very hard to hear David Dimbleby. They tended off and came | :01:48. | :01:50. | |
back and said, sorry, we are putting the music back on because we can | :01:51. | :01:54. | |
tell everybody is counting far quicker with the music on. That is | :01:55. | :01:59. | |
why it is rather loud and difficult to hear you. I will come back to you | :02:00. | :02:06. | |
in a moment. At this point, we welcome viewers, good evening, or | :02:07. | :02:11. | |
good morning, watching BBC World News, with the referendum results of | :02:12. | :02:17. | |
this important referendum that took place in Britain today. We haven't | :02:18. | :02:21. | |
yet got any figures. We are waiting for that. We have a slight inkling | :02:22. | :02:28. | |
it might be a narrow win for Remain, but we don't actually know, we have | :02:29. | :02:33. | |
not had any results. We hope you find the whole thing interesting and | :02:34. | :02:37. | |
revealing. It is a very important moment for Britain, for Europe and | :02:38. | :02:41. | |
the rest of the world. Jane, when you expecting to get your result? | :02:42. | :02:46. | |
Yes, we think they are pretty much on track, that is what we are being | :02:47. | :02:56. | |
given from both sides. It could be about 12:45am. Swindon has two MPs, | :02:57. | :03:02. | |
both conservatives. One of them said, we cancel each other out, | :03:03. | :03:08. | |
there is one Remain and one Leave. They think Swindon, as per the | :03:09. | :03:13. | |
modelling, Swindon will vote to leave, but perhaps only marginally. | :03:14. | :03:18. | |
The modelling suggests that the Leave vote would be much bigger than | :03:19. | :03:22. | |
that in Swindon if that was going to be the picture nationally. The | :03:23. | :03:27. | |
Conservative MPs, even though one voted one way and one the other, | :03:28. | :03:30. | |
they are both telling me they are pretty confident the overall | :03:31. | :03:34. | |
national picture, for what it is worth, will be Remain. There could | :03:35. | :03:39. | |
be a slight, narrow win for Leave in Swindon. We should know that by | :03:40. | :03:47. | |
about 12:45am. I think people should be very cautious at this stage, 11 | :03:48. | :03:51. | |
o'clock, about predicting. Of course, people on the Remain side | :03:52. | :03:56. | |
are keen to say they think it is in the bag. Nigel Farage said first of | :03:57. | :04:01. | |
all they thought they might have lost on the Leave side, and then he | :04:02. | :04:15. | |
said that he not conceding. Tom Watson, you spoke a bit about the | :04:16. | :04:21. | |
Labour campaign, what you think lies ahead for the Tory party if there is | :04:22. | :04:28. | |
just a narrow victory? It is not really for me to predict what David | :04:29. | :04:34. | |
Cameron's future is, but I see the MPs signing that letter, he must be | :04:35. | :04:37. | |
in trouble if they are signing a letter of support at one minute | :04:38. | :04:41. | |
after ten. It seems there is a challenge for David Cameron, or | :04:42. | :04:46. | |
whoever leads the Conservative Party, let's face it, we end the | :04:47. | :04:49. | |
referendum with the country more divided than it was at the start of | :04:50. | :04:52. | |
the referendum. It seems that some points we had been slipping into | :04:53. | :04:58. | |
intolerance. I think it is incumbent on David Cameron to try to bridge | :04:59. | :05:02. | |
the divide, heal some of the wounds the referendum campaign has brought | :05:03. | :05:06. | |
about in the country. That means his leadership over the next four or six | :05:07. | :05:10. | |
weeks is very important. How can he do that, with these divisions, which | :05:11. | :05:17. | |
Iain Duncan Smith has been talking about, we said earlier on, families | :05:18. | :05:23. | |
and people divided. It is a very... What can I call it? An abrupt | :05:24. | :05:28. | |
breaking point for Britain. They have been presented with just one | :05:29. | :05:33. | |
question. We need to hear what people were telling us. The Labour | :05:34. | :05:36. | |
Party have to do that. We have to understand what people are saying. | :05:37. | :05:43. | |
What can you do about it? For me, there are many, many people who did | :05:44. | :05:46. | |
not hear or would not listen to the argument that the EU has made us a | :05:47. | :05:52. | |
more prosperous country, and I think there is a reason for that. Over the | :05:53. | :05:56. | |
last 30 years, the evidence has shown that the prosperity has only | :05:57. | :06:00. | |
been shared with a very rich people. One way or another, half the country | :06:01. | :06:05. | |
is going to be disaffected, with the politicians or the other half of the | :06:06. | :06:11. | |
country, whichever side has won? Of course, these things will take a | :06:12. | :06:15. | |
while to heal, in the country and in politics. Isn't that optimistic? You | :06:16. | :06:19. | |
have asked people to make up their mind what kind of country Britain | :06:20. | :06:23. | |
should be, half of the people that voted are going to find the other | :06:24. | :06:27. | |
half does not want what they want? Leaving aside party politics, we are | :06:28. | :06:33. | |
told 80% of people answering this question? Within this referendum, I | :06:34. | :06:38. | |
agree with Tom, there have been some real thing is that political parties | :06:39. | :06:40. | |
have now got to stop and think about. The distancing of Westminster | :06:41. | :06:48. | |
and politics from communities far away from Westminster has been quite | :06:49. | :06:51. | |
revealing. For the Labour Party, there is a big issue where they are | :06:52. | :06:55. | |
worrying about how they are getting out of touch with people that they | :06:56. | :06:59. | |
have always considered to be strong Labour supporters. For my party, | :07:00. | :07:03. | |
it's a big issue that people that have been taken for granted as | :07:04. | :07:06. | |
conservative for some time have become quite angry about this | :07:07. | :07:10. | |
debate, because they feel, for the first time, they are being asked a | :07:11. | :07:13. | |
question which they have been trying to get across about what has | :07:14. | :07:16. | |
happened to them. It is not a case of... Tom is right, by the way, many | :07:17. | :07:21. | |
people on low incomes do not feel like, at any stage, over the last | :07:22. | :07:25. | |
ten years, they have at all been benefited by anything. In fact, they | :07:26. | :07:30. | |
have seen incomes fall, and that has caused quite a lot of turmoil. There | :07:31. | :07:34. | |
is a huge moment, for the first time we don't rely on safe and unsafe | :07:35. | :07:39. | |
constituencies and marginals, every place in Britain has a voice now. | :07:40. | :07:43. | |
Many places in the present system have never been able to tell us | :07:44. | :07:46. | |
anything because nobody was asking them because they didn't matter in a | :07:47. | :07:51. | |
general election. They do now. This is a huge reason why David Cameron's | :07:52. | :07:55. | |
handling of this in the next few weeks will be critical. He ended up | :07:56. | :07:59. | |
calling this referendum, conceding having to hold a referendum, really, | :08:00. | :08:03. | |
to try to settle a problem on the right of British politics inside his | :08:04. | :08:11. | |
own party and to hold off Ukip. What it risks unleashing his forces that | :08:12. | :08:13. | |
the political classes, who have been surprised it even ended up feeling | :08:14. | :08:16. | |
this close, didn't really anticipate. Many of them discovered | :08:17. | :08:20. | |
they were more cut off from traditional bases than they | :08:21. | :08:23. | |
realised. The handling of that is going to be absolutely critical in | :08:24. | :08:27. | |
the weeks ahead. Let's have a look at the morning papers. It's an | :08:28. | :08:33. | |
old-fashioned thing to do, really, considering most stuff comes through | :08:34. | :08:37. | |
online! Anyway... They have had to make the headlines... Well, The | :08:38. | :08:42. | |
Times saying the closest call for Britain. The Telegraph, Brexit MPs | :08:43. | :08:49. | |
pledge allegiance to Cameron. The Prime Minister. The Daily Mail, | :08:50. | :08:57. | |
again, not much of a story... Well, a big story, 100 billion parasite | :08:58. | :09:02. | |
bankers. We are talking about the city, working through the night to | :09:03. | :09:05. | |
make a killing on the referendum result. Project Reunite, The Mirror. | :09:06. | :09:14. | |
A famous picture, we love you, we love you, Britain! The EU on the | :09:15. | :09:19. | |
left, kissing in Britain on the right. The Sun, Bremad? I don't know | :09:20. | :09:32. | |
what that means. Is that Glastonbury? Maybe it is a railway | :09:33. | :09:37. | |
station! I don't know why we are mocking these headlines. We have | :09:38. | :09:44. | |
another one coming up. The Guardian, party leaders reach out to a divided | :09:45. | :09:48. | |
nation. You have seen it here at this table, after the bitter EU | :09:49. | :09:52. | |
referendum. We can vouch for that. The Metro, Farage, I think it's all | :09:53. | :10:01. | |
over, a remarking has now distanced himself from, saying he has | :10:02. | :10:08. | |
unconceded! Nothing new there. Remember at the general election, | :10:09. | :10:15. | |
when he unresigned? Emily? I'm going to speak to Chris | :10:16. | :10:21. | |
Grayling. Thanks for joining us. I wonder what you're hearing about | :10:22. | :10:25. | |
Nigel Farage? Has he conceded defeat, has he unconceded? Terrible | :10:26. | :10:31. | |
word! I'm puzzled, frankly, I think it is too early to concede all | :10:32. | :10:36. | |
unconcede. Have not seen any results at all. There has been a high | :10:37. | :10:41. | |
turnout, but there has been a high turnout in areas expected to back | :10:42. | :10:46. | |
Leave. We are getting polls suggesting Remain has won. I | :10:47. | :10:48. | |
genuinely don't know what has happened. We need to wait until we | :10:49. | :10:52. | |
see a proper picture. Can you confirm if your name is on this | :10:53. | :10:57. | |
letter we are talking about? 84 signatories from Tory MPs, calling | :10:58. | :11:00. | |
for David Cameron to stay on. Was your name one of those? Yes, it was. | :11:01. | :11:06. | |
It's really important now that the Conservative Party, having won a | :11:07. | :11:10. | |
general election, having promised to give the country a referendum and | :11:11. | :11:17. | |
delivered it, and we have have a lively debate, we are going to see | :11:18. | :11:20. | |
what the view of the people is, after that we get on with the job of | :11:21. | :11:23. | |
governing the country, that means uniting behind David Cameron and | :11:24. | :11:26. | |
delivering the manifesto we were elected on. You would like David | :11:27. | :11:31. | |
Cameron to stay on if it is a narrow victory for Remain? I want him to | :11:32. | :11:35. | |
stay regardless of the result. He has been a good Prime Minister. If | :11:36. | :11:39. | |
we win the referendum tonight on the leave aside, we will need his skills | :11:40. | :11:48. | |
to take us out of the European Union. If we are not successful, we | :11:49. | :11:50. | |
need him to continue delivering the change he has been doing for the | :11:51. | :11:53. | |
last six years. We need to get behind David Cameron and do the job | :11:54. | :11:56. | |
we have to do for the country, as well as keeping what is a very left | :11:57. | :12:00. | |
wing Labour opposition at bay. Do you feel the same degree of warmth | :12:01. | :12:05. | |
towards the Chancellor? Were you one of the signatories saying they would | :12:06. | :12:10. | |
stand against his austerity budget? I was not. I always took that with a | :12:11. | :12:14. | |
bit of a pinch of salt. I don't think it would have happened. The | :12:15. | :12:19. | |
reality is that this has been a lively debate, strong views on both | :12:20. | :12:23. | |
sides. Now is the moment to say the polls are closed, it is now down to | :12:24. | :12:26. | |
the counting of the votes of the British people. We have to accept | :12:27. | :12:29. | |
the verdict and get on with governing as good friends and | :12:30. | :12:32. | |
colleagues, people with a mission across this parliament to make a | :12:33. | :12:36. | |
difference to this country. How easy is that going to be? You have 65 or | :12:37. | :12:42. | |
so MPs signing the letter against the Chancellor. It is a mammoth task | :12:43. | :12:50. | |
to unite a party that has seen divisions right through its heart? | :12:51. | :12:54. | |
Of course there have been bruises as a result of the campaign, that was | :12:55. | :12:58. | |
inevitable. This is an issue that attracts strong sentiments on both | :12:59. | :13:02. | |
sides of the argument. There is far more that unites us as conservatives | :13:03. | :13:06. | |
than divides us. If you look at what the Chancellor has achieved over six | :13:07. | :13:10. | |
years, turning the economy around from the brink of Greek style ruin, | :13:11. | :13:14. | |
to when we have the lowest payments of unemployment benefit since the | :13:15. | :13:19. | |
1970s, he has done a great job, the government matter as to make great | :13:20. | :13:22. | |
job, we are midway through a process of social reform that I think will | :13:23. | :13:25. | |
make a lasting difference. We need to accept the view of the British | :13:26. | :13:29. | |
public, we need to carry on delivering the manifesto. We have | :13:30. | :13:33. | |
another 21 bills to get through in this Parliament, that is part of | :13:34. | :13:37. | |
what we were elected on. It is beholden on us to unite and get on | :13:38. | :13:41. | |
with the job. You will concede it is quite curious to hear those that | :13:42. | :13:44. | |
have been on the opposite side for weeks now talking about their | :13:45. | :13:48. | |
wonderful record in government. Just this week, I think you talked about | :13:49. | :13:51. | |
the south-east becoming a very different sort of place if | :13:52. | :13:55. | |
immigration went on and checked. Do you think that is a message that | :13:56. | :14:02. | |
will go through to your leader? -- unchecked? It is clearly the case | :14:03. | :14:06. | |
that if Remain wins it will be more challenging to deal with | :14:07. | :14:09. | |
immigration. But that will not stop us has a Government listening to the | :14:10. | :14:13. | |
will of the British people, acting on what they decided for us in | :14:14. | :14:17. | |
relationship to the membership of the European Union, get on with | :14:18. | :14:23. | |
doing what we can... So you can presumably negotiate with the EU if | :14:24. | :14:28. | |
it is Remain, do you believe that? We have to carry on working within | :14:29. | :14:32. | |
the European Union to get what is right for Britain, delivering change | :14:33. | :14:37. | |
is what make a difference in the country. We will carry on doing | :14:38. | :14:44. | |
everything we can in the interests of the country, off the back of the | :14:45. | :14:48. | |
mandate we got 15 months ago. Thank you. | :14:49. | :14:52. | |
Thank you very much indeed much we are hearing that Theresa Villiers | :14:53. | :14:57. | |
has said she understands that Remain have edged it. We should put a | :14:58. | :15:02. | |
massive caveat in at this point of the night. An hour on air. We have | :15:03. | :15:06. | |
not had a single result in, so the night awaits us. David. Kettering | :15:07. | :15:15. | |
has it its turnout. The turnout, 76%. It was 67% at the general | :15:16. | :15:20. | |
election. More people have registered and the turnout is 76%. | :15:21. | :15:26. | |
It is probably even more actual people voting. Look, I've just been | :15:27. | :15:33. | |
joined by Douglas Carswell, the only Ukip MP. Now, we've got this mixed | :15:34. | :15:40. | |
messages coming from your leader, Nigel Farage, if you still see him | :15:41. | :15:46. | |
as your leader. Saying he thought Remain had done it, now saying he is | :15:47. | :15:51. | |
unconceded? Well, I think we should take this with a large pinch of | :15:52. | :15:55. | |
salt. Which bit, all of it? On the night of the general election | :15:56. | :15:58. | |
similar pro general elections about Thanet South going the other way, | :15:59. | :16:01. | |
which turned out to be slightly offkey. Let's look at the facts. We | :16:02. | :16:05. | |
will see Sunderland fairly soon. Let us look at hard facts before we | :16:06. | :16:09. | |
know. What we do know is that it's likely to be very, very close. Who | :16:10. | :16:13. | |
would have thought, after everything that has been thrown at the Leave | :16:14. | :16:19. | |
campaign, taxpayer funded propaganda and the rest of it. Who would have | :16:20. | :16:22. | |
thought it would be this close? I think it's been an extraordinary | :16:23. | :16:26. | |
campaign. I think Vote Leave has done incredibly well to narrow the | :16:27. | :16:30. | |
gap and reduce the lead, perhaps not quite enough, perhaps they have done | :16:31. | :16:34. | |
it quite enough. What's the future of Ukip and Ukip supporters as a | :16:35. | :16:39. | |
party if it's not a victory for Leave? Many people after this | :16:40. | :16:43. | |
campaign, in all parties, who perhaps feel that the leaders of | :16:44. | :16:47. | |
their parties, on the issue of Europe and many other things, have | :16:48. | :16:51. | |
more in common with one another in Westminster than they do with | :16:52. | :16:55. | |
ordinary folk across the country. Many people will conclude that | :16:56. | :16:59. | |
politics is a cartel wef need to break that cartel and need new up | :17:00. | :17:04. | |
start parties like Ukip to break that cartel. Physical Ukip is an | :17:05. | :17:07. | |
optimistic party that wants change and that looks to reshape the | :17:08. | :17:14. | |
country for 2030, 2040, not back to 1950, we can be that change. Sitting | :17:15. | :17:21. | |
ondown your left is Amber Rudd, Energy and Climate Secretary. Thank | :17:22. | :17:25. | |
you for joining us. You were quite rude about Boris Johnson in one of | :17:26. | :17:29. | |
the debates saying you thought the only number he understood was Number | :17:30. | :17:33. | |
Ten, that's where he wanted to be. The mood of the campaign, the style | :17:34. | :17:37. | |
of it, was very vicious within the Tory party I would like to think I | :17:38. | :17:43. | |
made interesting points about climate change and women's They may | :17:44. | :17:47. | |
have equality. Got lost at the insults levelled at Boris Johnson | :17:48. | :17:51. | |
Boris Johnson is made of porcelain. We have a good relationship. He is | :17:52. | :17:55. | |
not the man you want to drive you home at the end of the evening. What | :17:56. | :17:59. | |
does that mean We should not get in the car and let him drive us out of | :18:00. | :18:03. | |
the European Union. It's perfectly clear. You mistake me completely. | :18:04. | :18:09. | |
Ah. There has been a lot of talk about people having disagreements | :18:10. | :18:13. | |
within the Tory party. As Chris Grayling said earlier there has been | :18:14. | :18:17. | |
robust discussions, there is also, I feel already, a coming together this | :18:18. | :18:20. | |
evening, people who had strong views on different parts of the | :18:21. | :18:22. | |
Conservative Party, already reaching out to each other and say - whatever | :18:23. | :18:26. | |
the outcome, as Douglas said, it's too early to say, we're hopeful we | :18:27. | :18:30. | |
will unite again afterwards. Conservative Party united is one | :18:31. | :18:36. | |
thing. What Douglas Carswell is referring to is large numbers of | :18:37. | :18:39. | |
voters being disaffected by that. Assume for a moment, make no | :18:40. | :18:45. | |
assumptions about who won or lost. The country was asked to make a | :18:46. | :18:48. | |
decision between black-and-white, are you for or against? A difficult | :18:49. | :18:52. | |
decision. Countless people have been saying - I don't know how, I can't | :18:53. | :18:56. | |
make up my mind. Once they made up their mind and find the other half | :18:57. | :18:59. | |
of the country has gone the other way. They are bound, aren't they, to | :19:00. | :19:04. | |
look for - somebody else. Some ideas to represent - There may be people | :19:05. | :19:08. | |
who think - I was out campaigning in Hastings today. What I heard was a | :19:09. | :19:11. | |
lot of enthusiasm from people coming up to me and saying - we rather | :19:12. | :19:15. | |
enjoyed this period of thinking about why the European Union works | :19:16. | :19:17. | |
for us and how Britain is stronger because of being in. It they have | :19:18. | :19:23. | |
enjoyed the campaign. It brought them together and you canned talk | :19:24. | :19:27. | |
about it. I think it hes has had a binding affect on people. Yes or no, | :19:28. | :19:32. | |
In or Out? Thinking where Britain's place is in the world or whether we | :19:33. | :19:36. | |
are better served being in the European Union or not? It will be | :19:37. | :19:40. | |
close. A sizeable chunk of the electorate feel they haven't got | :19:41. | :19:44. | |
their way. I want to see a new consensus. I don't want to spend 20 | :19:45. | :19:50. | |
years having divisions over Europe like we had over the past years. I | :19:51. | :19:56. | |
would like to reach out tho those who have concerns, with the new | :19:57. | :19:59. | |
consensus take into account those concerns. Similarly, if it is | :20:00. | :20:03. | |
reremain we need to make sure that considerable number of people who | :20:04. | :20:08. | |
voted to leave the European Union are represent and some of their | :20:09. | :20:11. | |
views are taken on board. How can he this be takenen board. You say the | :20:12. | :20:17. | |
EU doesn't rigs listen and won't alter. Than is why you want to | :20:18. | :20:22. | |
leave? After the Scottish result there was a consensus there intoed | :20:23. | :20:25. | |
to be devolution of powers to Scotland. If it's a narrow Remain we | :20:26. | :20:30. | |
need to recognise that that considerable significant proportion | :20:31. | :20:34. | |
of the electorate, who voted to leave, need to have some | :20:35. | :20:40. | |
representation. Are you saying that the EU, after all the arbiter of | :20:41. | :20:42. | |
these things, will listen to the voice of people who said they wish | :20:43. | :20:46. | |
to leave and change their policy and their way of doing business? Do you | :20:47. | :20:51. | |
think that would happen I think it might happen. Can I pick up | :20:52. | :20:54. | |
something with Douglas. The Prime Minister said he never said he was | :20:55. | :20:58. | |
fighting for the status quo. We are fighting to make sure the UK has a | :20:59. | :21:02. | |
stronger role within Europe and it's good for the UK to be able to do | :21:03. | :21:05. | |
that. We don't want things to stay still much we want to make sure we | :21:06. | :21:08. | |
can influence the European Union so it's in our interests and is in | :21:09. | :21:12. | |
stronger. What I agree with Douglas about is there have been issues that | :21:13. | :21:17. | |
came out of this campaign which no Government would ignore. We need to | :21:18. | :21:19. | |
engage with them more, listen to people more about it and address | :21:20. | :21:24. | |
them. How do you do that? It was part of David Cameron's campaign if | :21:25. | :21:29. | |
you stayed in you were voting for a reformed Europe. This week the | :21:30. | :21:33. | |
President of the EU Commission, Jean-Claude Juncker, was plain as | :21:34. | :21:36. | |
plain could be he said there would be no more change after the February | :21:37. | :21:39. | |
deal. February deal that David Cameron had promised was so bold, | :21:40. | :21:43. | |
most people concede is actually pretty much tinkering around the | :21:44. | :21:49. | |
margins? We know what the President was saying don't expect a | :21:50. | :21:51. | |
renegotiation if you want a another referendum. My interpretations what | :21:52. | :21:54. | |
he said is different to what you suggested. It's saying - don't come | :21:55. | :21:57. | |
back and ask uses to have a different deal - So many members of | :21:58. | :22:01. | |
the public want something else from the European Union We will hope to | :22:02. | :22:05. | |
influence that to take place by, working with other European partners | :22:06. | :22:09. | |
to do that. Also, on the renegotiation, I think people | :22:10. | :22:13. | |
dismiss it too quickly. The fact, is on the crucial case of immigration, | :22:14. | :22:18. | |
he got a renegotiation, the Prime Minister, whereby European Union | :22:19. | :22:21. | |
citizens come here to work. They can't take out until they put in. | :22:22. | :22:25. | |
They can't get full benefits for four years. That's a fundamental | :22:26. | :22:29. | |
change. Once we vote, if we do, to Remain, that will be a change that | :22:30. | :22:33. | |
people will appreciate. You know very well that the Prime Minister is | :22:34. | :22:36. | |
not able to get as much as he wanted on immigration. He has not been able | :22:37. | :22:41. | |
to get what he went in on that negotiation You under estimate what | :22:42. | :22:45. | |
he did achieve. I don't think anyone should be under the impression | :22:46. | :22:48. | |
because of the way people voted on Thursday the fundamental problems | :22:49. | :22:51. | |
that affect the European Union are magically going to disappear. It's a | :22:52. | :22:56. | |
fundamentally flawed project and the failures within it and to it will | :22:57. | :23:00. | |
become Evermore pronounced. I think we need to recognise that. The | :23:01. | :23:04. | |
European Union, whether we vote to leave or stay, is fundamentally | :23:05. | :23:08. | |
flawed in it is current form. I hope if we vote to stay you will try to | :23:09. | :23:11. | |
work within parliament to make sure we get the best for the country by | :23:12. | :23:14. | |
working with the European Union, not always taking the position that we | :23:15. | :23:17. | |
should leave the European Union if that's the outcome of the British | :23:18. | :23:20. | |
people. Let's see what the result is. Indeed. I think it's going to be | :23:21. | :23:25. | |
neck and neck. Let's hear more about the result from Jeremy, who had his | :23:26. | :23:29. | |
beautifully explanation a moment ago about the size of the constituencies | :23:30. | :23:33. | |
and the size of the counts. The mechanics, David much I wish I could | :23:34. | :23:37. | |
give you the result. The way it's, working. We are used to Westminster | :23:38. | :23:42. | |
elections and parliamentary constituencies, 650 in Westminster, | :23:43. | :23:46. | |
roughly the same size. It's not like that for this referendum we have | :23:47. | :23:51. | |
here a proportionate map. Each counting area is difficult. Some are | :23:52. | :23:55. | |
bigger than others. The smallest here. The Isles of Scilly. There we | :23:56. | :23:59. | |
are. Just down off the south-east coast. Very, very small indeed. Next | :24:00. | :24:07. | |
to it, a big stalk here, Cornwall. Cornwall counts as one county. The | :24:08. | :24:11. | |
height of the stalk represents the number of people in the counting | :24:12. | :24:15. | |
areas. Later we will turn them blue and yellow according to came first. | :24:16. | :24:20. | |
We can't do that yet, obviously. The biggest stalk here in the Midland is | :24:21. | :24:25. | |
Birmingham. Just there. We will focus in a minute on London. There | :24:26. | :24:29. | |
is an awful lot of votes, 33 different boroughs all reporting | :24:30. | :24:34. | |
singly. Scotland. A lot of votes in Glasgow and Edinburgh. Not so many | :24:35. | :24:39. | |
elsewhere. Scotland thought to be going much more for Remain than any | :24:40. | :24:44. | |
other part of the whole of the UK and, therefore, Scotland may well be | :24:45. | :24:47. | |
a crucial part in all of this. If I take you down towards London, you | :24:48. | :24:52. | |
will see this forest of stalks which represents the density of population | :24:53. | :24:56. | |
in the south-east of England. Let's zoom in on London here. We can see | :24:57. | :25:00. | |
those 33 boroughs, including the City of London, it's tiny, 7,000 | :25:01. | :25:06. | |
electorate there. The height of the stalk represents the number of | :25:07. | :25:09. | |
people who can vote. It's possible, with Remain sentiment high in | :25:10. | :25:13. | |
London, all that a of these turn yellow by the end of the night. If | :25:14. | :25:17. | |
they don't. If some of them go blue, blue for Leave, you might expect | :25:18. | :25:23. | |
them, based on the analysis so far on the counting areas to be on the | :25:24. | :25:28. | |
east side of the London, Barking, Dagenham, Havering, Bexley, so on. | :25:29. | :25:32. | |
Our map, we clear it down. Once we start getting results we will show | :25:33. | :25:40. | |
you the margin of victory for Leave or Remain in each particular area. | :25:41. | :25:44. | |
More there about the meal cans of it all. -- mechanics. North to | :25:45. | :25:51. | |
Scotland. A country still recovering from its independence referendum two | :25:52. | :25:54. | |
years ago. It had its second referendum in two years. A Leave | :25:55. | :25:59. | |
vote by the UK many people have said could have Scotland wanting to | :26:00. | :26:04. | |
change its mind on independence and leave the UK to stick with the EU. | :26:05. | :26:12. | |
In Falkirk this evening is Scotland editor, Sarah Smith. Good evening. | :26:13. | :26:16. | |
Good evening, David. What's the story that you can see there? | :26:17. | :26:22. | |
Everybody said it was going to be very much remain, does that pro- | :26:23. | :26:25. | |
Seem to be the feeling? That's what we're largely expecting. We will get | :26:26. | :26:29. | |
the first result in here. This is the central count where every result | :26:30. | :26:33. | |
for each of the 32 local authority areas across Scotland will be | :26:34. | :26:37. | |
announced. The first one about 1.00am from Auckney. First mainland | :26:38. | :26:44. | |
result, 1.30am from Sterling. Glasgow, Edinburgh, Aberdeen we | :26:45. | :26:49. | |
won't get until 2.00am to 3.00am. If any of them vote to Leave David | :26:50. | :26:53. | |
Cameron should be very worried. We are expecting a Remain result in | :26:54. | :27:00. | |
most of Scotland, everywhere apart from the borders, Dumfries or | :27:01. | :27:03. | |
Galloway. Edinburgh could have the highest proportion of Remain voters | :27:04. | :27:06. | |
in any district across the whole of the UK. It's not how Scotland vote | :27:07. | :27:14. | |
that matters. It's what the UK voters decide. That could have | :27:15. | :27:19. | |
profound implications here in Scotland. Perhaps we should go to | :27:20. | :27:31. | |
Wales. James Williams is in Deeside, this evening. What is the position | :27:32. | :27:35. | |
there? David, we expect the turnout to be high here. I spoke to sources | :27:36. | :27:39. | |
from all parties and both campaigns right across the country. We are | :27:40. | :27:43. | |
expecting turnout to be between 70% and 75%. But all the sources I spoke | :27:44. | :27:48. | |
to aren't willing to guess which way the result is going to go. What has | :27:49. | :27:53. | |
been fascinating about this Welsh referendum campaign is that the long | :27:54. | :27:58. | |
held assumption that Wales is a massively pro-EU country has been | :27:59. | :28:01. | |
challenged robustly time and time again. Despite the vast majority of | :28:02. | :28:06. | |
Welsh politicians wanting us to remain, despite the fact that Wales, | :28:07. | :28:09. | |
unlike the UK, receives more cash from the EU than we pay in. We are a | :28:10. | :28:14. | |
net beneficiary. Despite the fact that migration, as a proportion, is | :28:15. | :28:18. | |
lower here than in any other UK country it seems that the result | :28:19. | :28:22. | |
here is precariously balanced on a knife edge. That could be very | :28:23. | :28:27. | |
significant. As one Leave Brexit campaigner was telling me, a few | :28:28. | :28:32. | |
days ago, look, if there is a narrow Brexit result across the UK, then | :28:33. | :28:36. | |
it's important that it isn't just England that pulls the UK out of the | :28:37. | :28:41. | |
EU. Given we expect Scotland and Northern Ireland to vote to Remain, | :28:42. | :28:45. | |
what happens in Wales, in that context, could be very significant | :28:46. | :28:51. | |
indeed. Of course, over the last few years the emergence of Ukip has been | :28:52. | :28:55. | |
a big political story #. They broke new electoral ground in May winning | :28:56. | :28:58. | |
seats in the Welsh Assembly for the very first time. It's those Labour | :28:59. | :29:02. | |
strongholds where we will be keeping an eye tonight. Places like, | :29:03. | :29:09. | |
Flintshire in the north-east, according to our-John Curtice's | :29:10. | :29:12. | |
analysis is the most eurosceptic place in Wales. The local Labour MP | :29:13. | :29:16. | |
is telling me is heartened by what he has seen so far. In this context | :29:17. | :29:19. | |
that means a narrow victory for Brexit. We will be looking at the | :29:20. | :29:27. | |
council areas in the south Wales Valleys. According to Labour sources | :29:28. | :29:32. | |
I have spoken to down there they are more confident they pulled some of | :29:33. | :29:36. | |
their supporters back to the Remain campaign. It could be a case of | :29:37. | :29:40. | |
damage limitation in some of those areas. As for the Remain camp, they | :29:41. | :29:46. | |
are hoping to record big victories in the Welsh speaking heartlands. | :29:47. | :29:49. | |
They are hoping for a big result in the capital city, Cardiff. We are | :29:50. | :29:55. | |
expecting the results to start trickling in from 1.30am in the | :29:56. | :30:02. | |
morning. We expect to give you the all-Wales picture around | :30:03. | :30:05. | |
4.00am-5.00am. We will keep you updated in the meantime. Thank you. | :30:06. | :30:08. | |
We go to Northern Ireland, Belfast. They have a different way of | :30:09. | :30:12. | |
counting here, which Chris Buckler, who is there, good evening, Chris, | :30:13. | :30:14. | |
he will explain it to us. A Northern Ireland result will be | :30:15. | :30:23. | |
announced here. It is the same accounting as in the UK, a simple | :30:24. | :30:28. | |
case of Leave Laura Main. The polling has indicated there is a big | :30:29. | :30:33. | |
difference between how nationalists and unionists will vote. It has | :30:34. | :30:37. | |
seemed very clear that nationalists were very likely to vote Remain. | :30:38. | :30:46. | |
Unionists, it will split 50-50. The key thing for unionists was to get | :30:47. | :30:52. | |
the vote out from some of those in the Leave side. The DUP is the party | :30:53. | :30:59. | |
that has been campaigning for the Leave side, argue against the other | :31:00. | :31:06. | |
big storm and parties. Speaking to both sides, they believe they have a | :31:07. | :31:10. | |
big turnout, probably double figures on what the Assembly election was | :31:11. | :31:15. | |
just six weeks ago. They say in the polling stations they have seen | :31:16. | :31:19. | |
people voting today who did not vote in the Assembly election or the | :31:20. | :31:22. | |
general election. There are different people there. From the | :31:23. | :31:27. | |
Unionist side, talking to Leave campaigners, they say they have seen | :31:28. | :31:30. | |
people from working class Unionist areas who have been very motivated. | :31:31. | :31:34. | |
Remain campaigners say there have been more younger people out. When | :31:35. | :31:39. | |
you take a look at the figures as far as nationalists being much more | :31:40. | :31:43. | |
likely to vote and unionists being about 50-50, I think it is clear we | :31:44. | :31:47. | |
will get a Remain vote in Northern Ireland. We expect that to be | :31:48. | :31:55. | |
announced sometime after four. We will get results constituency by | :31:56. | :31:58. | |
constituency so we can get it sooner. We have talked about | :31:59. | :32:01. | |
Newcastle being first with a result, it seems to be a possibility | :32:02. | :32:10. | |
Gibraltar will be first. James Neish is in Gibraltar. Tell us what is | :32:11. | :32:14. | |
going on. Hello, from the southernmost tip of Europe, where | :32:15. | :32:20. | |
the count has finished. 20,000 passionate voters exercising their | :32:21. | :32:25. | |
right to vote in this EU referendum with a massive turnout of 84% on the | :32:26. | :32:31. | |
rock of Gibraltar. The early indication is that the result will | :32:32. | :32:38. | |
overwhelmingly be in favour of a Remain vote. I have been speaking to | :32:39. | :32:45. | |
members of the Stronger In Campaign, they are hoping for 90% for Remain. | :32:46. | :32:50. | |
The result is imminent. We expected to be declared in the next ten or 15 | :32:51. | :32:55. | |
minutes. The count has finished and the results have been sent to the | :32:56. | :32:58. | |
south-west region. They will come back to the counting officer and he | :32:59. | :33:02. | |
will declare. An interesting aspect of this campaign in Gibraltar is | :33:03. | :33:11. | |
that Stronger In have run an intense campaign. Leave have been tactically | :33:12. | :33:15. | |
invisible. That is why everybody that is here behind me, all of the | :33:16. | :33:19. | |
supporters and campaigners, they are really hoping this is going to be in | :33:20. | :33:26. | |
the European Union. 20,000 votes, so not a big number to give us the | :33:27. | :33:31. | |
wider picture for the UK. There will be many people not sleeping tonight, | :33:32. | :33:35. | |
hoping that this is now going to be replicated, at least as far as an i | :33:36. | :33:43. | |
vote is expected when the declaration comes in the morning. | :33:44. | :33:49. | |
For people slightly puzzled about this, explain how Gibraltar came to | :33:50. | :33:55. | |
be in the EU and voting on this? I was speaking to Gibraltar's Chief | :33:56. | :33:58. | |
Minister earlier today. He was telling me that this is British | :33:59. | :34:06. | |
Gibraltarians being part of the British family. They stand united as | :34:07. | :34:11. | |
one. The links between the UK and Gibraltar go back more than 300 | :34:12. | :34:16. | |
years. It was the Prime Minister, David Cameron, who gave Gibraltar | :34:17. | :34:22. | |
the guarantee because of how Gibraltar would be affected by | :34:23. | :34:25. | |
Brexit. It was given by the Prime Minister when he called the | :34:26. | :34:28. | |
referendum, that the people of Gibraltar will have a right to | :34:29. | :34:32. | |
exercise their say. That is why everybody here is hoping that the UK | :34:33. | :34:35. | |
and Gibraltar will remain in the European Union. They say that Brexit | :34:36. | :34:41. | |
would severely damage the high quality of life that Gibraltarians | :34:42. | :34:48. | |
enjoy today. We look forward to... I think they will be the first | :34:49. | :34:52. | |
results, we look forward to that. This is Kirklees. Counting stopped, | :34:53. | :34:59. | |
it has just resumed. They have a minute's silence for the MP, Jo Cox, | :35:00. | :35:08. | |
killed last week. The same in Leeds, counting stopped and it has now | :35:09. | :35:15. | |
resumed. I think we can go to the news. I don't know if it will have | :35:16. | :35:22. | |
changed. There is the front of Broadcasting House. The result, it | :35:23. | :35:29. | |
will show you not much at the moment, because we have had no | :35:30. | :35:33. | |
results. There we go, count underway. Sometime later, we will | :35:34. | :35:39. | |
have that. Let's get a round-up of the news. | :35:40. | :35:44. | |
Counting has begun of millions of votes cast across the UK | :35:45. | :35:47. | |
A record 46 million people were entitled to vote | :35:48. | :35:51. | |
on whether to Remain In or to Leave the European Union. | :35:52. | :35:54. | |
The first results are likely to be announced in the early hours | :35:55. | :36:00. | |
This report contains some flashing images. | :36:01. | :36:10. | |
Big Ben has struck, ten o'clock. It was the moment that polling | :36:11. | :36:19. | |
stations closed, the UK had given its verdict. Now the waiting, a | :36:20. | :36:23. | |
night of counting ahead. Sunderland began the traditional race to be the | :36:24. | :36:27. | |
first to complete the count. As ballot boxes were opened in Swindon, | :36:28. | :36:33. | |
politicians said it looked like turnout was high. People that often | :36:34. | :36:37. | |
don't vote are suddenly voting. That makes it a little bit problematic. | :36:38. | :36:42. | |
I'm simply saying it has been hard-fought, in many senses it has | :36:43. | :36:45. | |
been great fun and difficult, but now we have to wait and see the | :36:46. | :36:49. | |
results. With rumours doing the rounds about who is ahead, it is a | :36:50. | :36:54. | |
nervous wait for campaigners. In the United States, a lot of people are | :36:55. | :36:58. | |
telling me they were going to Vote Leave or they had. I don't believe | :36:59. | :37:04. | |
that the book is always get it right. It has emerged prominent | :37:05. | :37:08. | |
Leave campaigners Boris Johnson and Michael Gove are among a group of | :37:09. | :37:12. | |
MPs that have signed a letter calling on David Cameron to carry on | :37:13. | :37:16. | |
whatever the result. It has been a ferocious and fractious campaign and | :37:17. | :37:20. | |
there are wounds that need to be healed. | :37:21. | :37:23. | |
As the world waits for the UK's decision, the pound has risen | :37:24. | :37:26. | |
to its highest level this year against the dollar - | :37:27. | :37:28. | |
and is on track for one of its strongest weekly performances | :37:29. | :37:31. | |
When the New York Stock Exchange closed a short while ago, | :37:32. | :37:35. | |
the pound was trading at just under one dollar and 49 cents. | :37:36. | :37:38. | |
The FTSE 100 Share Index also closed UP over 1 percentage point today. | :37:39. | :37:45. | |
As we've been hearing, storms and heavy rain have caused | :37:46. | :37:47. | |
serious flooding in parts of London and in south-east England. | :37:48. | :37:50. | |
Several commuter and Underground lines in the capital suffered | :37:51. | :37:52. | |
There were more problems this evening as commuters tried to get | :37:53. | :37:56. | |
Police in Germany have shot and killed a masked gunmen at a terror | :37:57. | :38:12. | |
alert at a cinema complex. It happened near Frankfurt. The man | :38:13. | :38:16. | |
entered the complex and took some people hostage, before being shot. | :38:17. | :38:20. | |
Police say nobody else was injured. Jenny Hill is in Berlin. Security | :38:21. | :38:26. | |
services and police sources have told local media that it looks as if | :38:27. | :38:32. | |
this was not a terror, IS inspired attack, rather it was perhaps the | :38:33. | :38:37. | |
work of a confused individual who appears to have been acting alone. | :38:38. | :38:41. | |
There were some witness reports that suggested that the man himself | :38:42. | :38:45. | |
appeared very confused during the incident. Police have yet to | :38:46. | :38:51. | |
disclose whether the weapon that he was carrying was real or fake. Just | :38:52. | :38:57. | |
before 3pm they were called to the scene, as you saw, and a very | :38:58. | :39:02. | |
dramatic scene it was as well. Really, the incident serves to | :39:03. | :39:08. | |
highlight, yet again, how Germany and many other European countries | :39:09. | :39:10. | |
are on a real state of high alert. A man has been jailed for life | :39:11. | :39:14. | |
for plotting a beheading on the streets of London, | :39:15. | :39:17. | |
inspired by so-called Islamic State, which could have | :39:18. | :39:19. | |
targeted a poppy seller. 23-year-old Nadir Syed | :39:20. | :39:21. | |
was arrested in November 2014, One of the world's longest running | :39:22. | :39:23. | |
civil wars, in Colombia, has been brought to an end | :39:24. | :39:29. | |
after more than 50 The so-called FARC rebels have | :39:30. | :39:31. | |
signed a deal to lay down their arms following three | :39:32. | :39:37. | |
years of negotiations. We have the result from Gibraltar. | :39:38. | :39:50. | |
Let's go to James Neish. 20100 and 73. The number of votes | :39:51. | :40:27. | |
cast in favour of remaining in the European Union was 19300 and 22. | :40:28. | :40:42. | |
You could barely hear that, but you can see it on screen, the result. | :40:43. | :41:01. | |
Just 823 wanting to leave the EU. 19322 wanted to remain. I'm not | :41:02. | :41:07. | |
quite sure why we cannot hear that clearly. That is the first | :41:08. | :41:15. | |
declaration, the first result of the 382 we are going to get by 6am. That | :41:16. | :41:23. | |
is the first result. It is absolutely no surprise, it was well | :41:24. | :41:27. | |
known that Gibraltar was going to go entirely... I don't know who the 823 | :41:28. | :41:32. | |
are, or what their motive is, Douglas Carswell, probably friends | :41:33. | :41:35. | |
of yours? Did you think that Gibraltar should vote Out? They will | :41:36. | :41:41. | |
have their own distinct respective and we need to respect that. I hope | :41:42. | :41:45. | |
North Clacton and does that result. We will see. A couple of tasters | :41:46. | :41:52. | |
from around the country, two different sources suggesting that | :41:53. | :41:55. | |
Sunderland, one of the other early results, we expected to be for | :41:56. | :42:01. | |
Leave, it might be very, very clearly for Leave. Sampling suggests | :42:02. | :42:08. | |
as high as 62% for Leave, that is, of course, way off being the | :42:09. | :42:12. | |
official result, but it would be very important, because it would be | :42:13. | :42:18. | |
an indication of how strong the Leave vote might be in other parts | :42:19. | :42:22. | |
of the country. Leave were expected to be ahead, but if it is as much as | :42:23. | :42:27. | |
that, it would be quite something. Nigel Farage, arriving at the | :42:28. | :42:30. | |
headquarters of his part of the Leave campaign. Apparently, he now | :42:31. | :42:37. | |
says his views about what had happened was based on what he had | :42:38. | :42:40. | |
heard from his friends in the financial markets. That was when he | :42:41. | :42:47. | |
said he thought that, by a whisker, the Remain campaign had won. | :42:48. | :42:54. | |
Nigel Farage, of course, the man that actually got the whole | :42:55. | :43:00. | |
referendum thing off the ground with Ukip, and has had a campaign, he has | :43:01. | :43:05. | |
been quite cross quite a lot of the time with the Leave campaign for | :43:06. | :43:10. | |
excluding him and refusing to turn up at places, and actually running | :43:11. | :43:15. | |
his own campaign, being criticised rather robustly for some of the | :43:16. | :43:19. | |
things, particularly that famous poster showing refugees from Syria, | :43:20. | :43:27. | |
which Douglas Carswell and others complained about. Apparently he did | :43:28. | :43:31. | |
speak. I don't know why the pictures are so rough, you would think they | :43:32. | :43:39. | |
were done on an iPhone. Ladies and gentlemen, good evening! I want to | :43:40. | :43:45. | |
say a massive, massive thanks to every single voter today who have | :43:46. | :43:50. | |
the guts to defy their party political leaders, to defy the | :43:51. | :43:56. | |
establishment, to defy the elites and big boys. I can't imagine any | :43:57. | :44:00. | |
other campaign were ordinary folk have been subjected to so many | :44:01. | :44:04. | |
threats. I have to say, it has been a long campaign. In my case, 25 | :44:05. | :44:12. | |
years. Whatever happens tonight, whoever wins this battle, one thing | :44:13. | :44:16. | |
I am completely certain of is we are winning this war. Euro scepticism | :44:17. | :44:23. | |
was considered to be fringe, fruitcake, to quote the Prime | :44:24. | :44:26. | |
Minister, pretty odd. Tonight, it looks like maybe just under half, | :44:27. | :44:31. | |
maybe over half the country, is going to vote for us to leave the | :44:32. | :44:35. | |
European Union. I promise you this. If the result is that we vote to | :44:36. | :44:39. | |
Leave, we must make sure the government carries out the will of | :44:40. | :44:43. | |
the people. If the vote is that we haven't quite made it, then we have | :44:44. | :44:48. | |
a lot to look forward to, as continued EU members. Tomorrow, the | :44:49. | :44:53. | |
foreign affairs Minister will launch their big new global initiative, | :44:54. | :44:57. | |
including defence. Next week, talks begin for Turkey to join the | :44:58. | :45:02. | |
European Union. In July or August, we look forward to the third Greek | :45:03. | :45:07. | |
bailout. What has dominated this campaign has been an issue that | :45:08. | :45:11. | |
Westminster finds very difficult to talk about. An issue for which I | :45:12. | :45:18. | |
have been demonised for much of the last ten years. An issue, and I will | :45:19. | :45:23. | |
never remember going to Bolton, a lady grabbing my hands, tears in her | :45:24. | :45:27. | |
eyes, saying, why doesn't the Prime Minister come and see what he has | :45:28. | :45:31. | |
done to our lives? How he has changed our community? What he has | :45:32. | :45:34. | |
done to the prospects of our kids getting jobs, school places or | :45:35. | :45:40. | |
housing bust are not the issue, if we vote to Remain, is not going to | :45:41. | :45:47. | |
go away. The Eurosceptic genie is out of the bottle and it will not be | :45:48. | :45:54. | |
put back. Perhaps even more remarkably, the biggest change is | :45:55. | :45:57. | |
not what has happened in the United Kingdom, it is what has happened | :45:58. | :45:59. | |
across the rest of the European Union. We see in Denmark, the | :46:00. | :46:04. | |
Netherlands, even in Italy, up to and around 50% of those populations | :46:05. | :46:09. | |
want to leave the European Union. I hope and pray that my sense of this | :46:10. | :46:13. | |
tonight is wrong on my sense of this, and I am not conceding, but my | :46:14. | :46:20. | |
sense of this is that the government's registration scheme, | :46:21. | :46:24. | |
getting 2 million voters on, a 48-hour extension, may tip the | :46:25. | :46:28. | |
balance. I hope I am wrong. I hope I am made a fool of, believing that it | :46:29. | :46:33. | |
is the case. Either way, whether I am right or wrong, if we do stay | :46:34. | :46:37. | |
part of this union, it is doomed, it is finished anyway. If we fail | :46:38. | :46:42. | |
tonight, it will not be as that knocks the first brick out of the | :46:43. | :46:46. | |
wall, but somebody else. We have fought an amazing campaign. Even a | :46:47. | :46:50. | |
year ago we were told the Remain campaign would be 20, 25, maybe even | :46:51. | :46:54. | |
30 points behind the establishment position. We are not. Running them | :46:55. | :46:57. | |
close. Nigel Farage there. He said if it | :46:58. | :47:07. | |
was a 52-48 gap it would be unfished business if the Remain camp wins | :47:08. | :47:11. | |
two-thirds to one third that would end it. He said if Remain wins he | :47:12. | :47:16. | |
was going to go out and get hammered. Heys's obviously, not | :47:17. | :47:21. | |
going to be able, he thinks, get hammered tonight because he doesn't | :47:22. | :47:26. | |
think they have won. We wait to see. He was calling foul saying that the | :47:27. | :47:29. | |
Government's extension of the time for registering may have swung | :47:30. | :47:34. | |
things by getting two million more people on to the ballot. Let's go to | :47:35. | :47:41. | |
Newcastle and Babita and see how close we are. Are we about to get a | :47:42. | :47:46. | |
result? . We are about to hear a result declared here in Newcastle in | :47:47. | :47:52. | |
the next few minutes. We understand from our sources is that it will be | :47:53. | :47:59. | |
a remarginal result for Remain camp. A marginal result for Remain much we | :48:00. | :48:03. | |
are waiting for the official declaration on the stage with the | :48:04. | :48:08. | |
Chief Counting Officer who will take centre stage, Pat Ritchie thechl | :48:09. | :48:13. | |
have gathered all the results and they've punched those results | :48:14. | :48:15. | |
through to the regional counting officer, who is based in Sunderland | :48:16. | :48:20. | |
much they are now authorising that and will make that public | :48:21. | :48:24. | |
declaration of a marginal Remain result here in Newcastle. We are | :48:25. | :48:28. | |
waiting to have the official figures. Figures.I can tell you also | :48:29. | :48:34. | |
that turnout was 67.6% in Newcastle. What with we are hearing on the | :48:35. | :48:37. | |
ground here is a marginal result for the Remain camp. Thank you very | :48:38. | :48:44. | |
much. Join Curtice, if it's marginal for Newcastle, we don't know of | :48:45. | :48:47. | |
course, it's not good for the Remain camp that is it? Not good news for | :48:48. | :48:54. | |
the Remain camp or in Newcastle it's not been quite so good. We will find | :48:55. | :48:58. | |
out which is true. Given the evidence we had before us, given the | :48:59. | :49:02. | |
character of Newcastle it's the kind of place we would expect the Remain | :49:03. | :49:09. | |
side to get 60% of the vote if the country was dividing 50 Halifax 50 | :49:10. | :49:15. | |
overall. If the vote for Remain is below 60% maybe Newcastle is | :49:16. | :49:18. | |
exceptional. We will wait and see. That is not a result that, shall we | :49:19. | :49:24. | |
say is consistent with the expectations generated by polling | :49:25. | :49:30. | |
exercises that were revealed shortly after 10.00pm -- 50-50. It could be | :49:31. | :49:34. | |
an outsider. You wouldn't take it too seriously? Sure. We shouldn't go | :49:35. | :49:40. | |
too strong on one result. 12 months ago, Sunderland was good for the | :49:41. | :49:43. | |
Labour Party. We said then, hang on, this is not necessarily the way the | :49:44. | :49:46. | |
whole country is going to go. Equally I would say to you, we have | :49:47. | :49:51. | |
to get a number of results in. Before we build up a consistent part | :49:52. | :49:56. | |
earn before we can begin to sensibly speculate what the result will be. | :49:57. | :50:01. | |
All we can say at the moment is, we heard the polls, we maybe we need to | :50:02. | :50:07. | |
suspend our judge. When Nigel Farage said that the Government had fouled | :50:08. | :50:11. | |
by extending the voting period, two million more people had come on to | :50:12. | :50:14. | |
the Regster, do you support him in that? Do you think it's a rigged | :50:15. | :50:18. | |
election this, which is what he was saying? It's important to show | :50:19. | :50:21. | |
respect for democracy. We have been through a very pro longed debate. I | :50:22. | :50:30. | |
think we can complain about tax funded pop beganed can and Treasury | :50:31. | :50:34. | |
fiction. When you get people to engage in a referendum, that is a | :50:35. | :50:37. | |
good thing. We have waited 40 years for this moment. Getting more people | :50:38. | :50:41. | |
to engage in the process is a good thing. There are lots of things we | :50:42. | :50:45. | |
can complain about, but I don't think that should be one of them. I | :50:46. | :50:51. | |
just think, I agree with Douglas. Ridiculous thing of Nigel Farage to | :50:52. | :50:54. | |
say much we have to respect the British people. He needs to respect | :50:55. | :50:58. | |
the British people in having made that decision, which ever way it is. | :50:59. | :51:01. | |
I will respect the decision which ever way it is as well. What were | :51:02. | :51:06. | |
you expecting in Newcastle? I don't have those sort of details to hand. | :51:07. | :51:11. | |
All right. I'm looking forwarded to seeing their interpretation. Laura. | :51:12. | :51:15. | |
Orbits coming in, suggested to me it might be 61% as high as that for Out | :51:16. | :51:21. | |
in Crawley inch London, Wandsworth, a borough expected to be Remain, it | :51:22. | :51:26. | |
might be over 70% for Remain. So early in the night, it may well be | :51:27. | :51:32. | |
we are looking at a very, very divided type of vote and in | :51:33. | :51:36. | |
different communities. That might be the pattern of the evening. You | :51:37. | :51:40. | |
wanted to add something? Merely, talking about the posters I thought | :51:41. | :51:42. | |
you were going to ask me about those. No, I wasn't. Should we? | :51:43. | :51:48. | |
Would you associate yourself with the posters Nigel Farage put out | :51:49. | :51:53. | |
during the campaign. Thank you for the opportunity. I think it was a | :51:54. | :51:57. | |
fundamental wrong thing to do. Let me say way. Morally it was the wrong | :51:58. | :52:02. | |
thing to do. Using a picture of people who fled from a war in Syria | :52:03. | :52:10. | |
that had nothing to do with the campaign. Angry nativism doesn't win | :52:11. | :52:14. | |
elections in this country much I know that because in the Clacton | :52:15. | :52:17. | |
constituencies at the last general election I made sure the posters | :52:18. | :52:22. | |
were taken down. It's the one seat we won in that general election. | :52:23. | :52:26. | |
What will happen to Ukip? You are rubbishing your leader, yet again, | :52:27. | :52:30. | |
who will lead this party? We need - only you as the only MP? We need | :52:31. | :52:34. | |
change the the way to appeal to decent minded people who want change | :52:35. | :52:40. | |
is not by whipping up some sense of the other. Would you like to lead | :52:41. | :52:47. | |
Ukip? Absolutely not. Why? I couldn't be a constituency MP, a dad | :52:48. | :52:50. | |
and leader of a party much I just couldn't do it. It would be bad for | :52:51. | :52:55. | |
me and it would be disastrous for Ukip. The Prime Minister does it | :52:56. | :52:58. | |
well, he leads the Conservative Party and he's a dad - I certainly | :52:59. | :53:02. | |
wouldn't want to lead the Conservative Party. That really | :53:03. | :53:06. | |
would be difficult. That's out of the question, Douglas. We are joined | :53:07. | :53:11. | |
by Paddy Ashdown. Lord Ashdown, could I perhaps warn you that we may | :53:12. | :53:15. | |
have to go to Newcastle while we're talking for a result. If I interrupt | :53:16. | :53:19. | |
you and we go off to Newcastle I hope you will, for once, forgive me. | :53:20. | :53:24. | |
I will always forgive you, David. LAUGHTER. | :53:25. | :53:29. | |
Come to this campaign itself. Do you think it's been damaging or can | :53:30. | :53:37. | |
good? I don't think the political class covered itself in too more | :53:38. | :53:44. | |
glory. It's a heavy word, there isn't another word for it, lying on | :53:45. | :53:50. | |
the other. Douglas Carswell and I profoundly disagree about about | :53:51. | :53:54. | |
this. Is an honourable man. He made two important statement. First of | :53:55. | :53:58. | |
all, Nigel Farage, true to form, is determined not to accept the | :53:59. | :54:01. | |
sovereign voice of the British people who come back again and | :54:02. | :54:05. | |
secondly on that poster. I don't know the result, even if I do, | :54:06. | :54:10. | |
having said I'd eat my hat on your programme last time, I'm not going | :54:11. | :54:17. | |
to do it again with the blessed John Curtice behind you, who I owe an | :54:18. | :54:21. | |
apology, twice I've done it, I was wrong on both occasions. There is a | :54:22. | :54:25. | |
question you touched on with Douglas I would like to raise on you. I | :54:26. | :54:28. | |
think the thing we ares ming here is the postal vote. I don't know what | :54:29. | :54:35. | |
the total postal vote across Britain was 25%-30%. I don't have a figure. | :54:36. | :54:39. | |
John will know. How do they take that into account in the polls. My | :54:40. | :54:44. | |
guess is the postal vote across the country will be heavily Brexit it | :54:45. | :54:48. | |
was cast right at the height of the Brexit surge at the time of | :54:49. | :54:51. | |
immigration. He's right. A four-point lead for the Remain, | :54:52. | :54:55. | |
which is what you have, margin of error stuff, is not enough to | :54:56. | :54:59. | |
counter that. I want to ask the blessed John Curtice how do we take | :55:00. | :55:05. | |
into account the postal vote? Saint John is here let's ask The people | :55:06. | :55:10. | |
who him. Cast a postal vote can be interviewed by pollsters just as | :55:11. | :55:14. | |
well as anybody else. The one thing the pollsters aren't allowed to do | :55:15. | :55:18. | |
is to tell you how the postal voters in their samples have voted because | :55:19. | :55:21. | |
that is would be against the law. They can be included in the mix. So | :55:22. | :55:26. | |
long as they are none separately identifiable they can be included in | :55:27. | :55:33. | |
the polls. What pollsters couldn't get out were oversea vote hesser. | :55:34. | :55:39. | |
Maybe there were 250,000 of those. It's not an enormous number. That is | :55:40. | :55:42. | |
one group that the pollsters could not get hold of. I don't want to get | :55:43. | :55:47. | |
into this too much. You started it! I know. I'm really genuinely | :55:48. | :55:52. | |
interested because my sense is that the postal vote may well tip this in | :55:53. | :55:57. | |
an opposite direction to the latest polls. Here is my question for John. | :55:58. | :56:02. | |
I'm a postal voter. I voted Out, I've changed my mind much you ask me | :56:03. | :56:06. | |
now how I'm going to vote. I may say I'm voting in In, that Out is cast. | :56:07. | :56:11. | |
You understand what I'm saying. Once you got into the period where it's | :56:12. | :56:15. | |
possible for somebody to have cast a postal vote, people are asked in the | :56:16. | :56:20. | |
interview by most pollsters - are you registered to have a postal vote | :56:21. | :56:23. | |
and have you already vote and which way have you voted? Therefore the | :56:24. | :56:28. | |
pollsters ask postal voters how they have vote ass opposed as to can | :56:29. | :56:32. | |
asking how they will vote. I got you. Within limitations of the polls | :56:33. | :56:36. | |
they should get that bit of the exercise right. Fine. In which case | :56:37. | :56:40. | |
we will wait and see. The bottom truth is that we acknowledge, | :56:41. | :56:45. | |
anybody who tells you how they know how this will go, don't. This is it | :56:46. | :56:49. | |
still, even if the polls are right within the margin of error or | :56:50. | :56:52. | |
nothing, we will have to be terribly patient. Thank you very much, Lord | :56:53. | :56:56. | |
Ashdown. Maybe you will be patient and come back a bit later on to us | :56:57. | :57:01. | |
from Westminster. Delighted to. Good to see you, thank you very much. Jo | :57:02. | :57:06. | |
Coburn is in Manchester. You have somebody with you, I don't know who | :57:07. | :57:09. | |
it is. You can explain? I'm at the Town Hall. It's Steve Baker, Tory MP | :57:10. | :57:14. | |
who has been campaigning for Leave. In fact the Leave and the Remain | :57:15. | :57:18. | |
campaigns are building up in their supporters here. Obviously, waiting | :57:19. | :57:22. | |
for any more results coming through. We have been talking about the | :57:23. | :57:24. | |
future of the Prime Minister, David Cameron. Steve, Baker, Tory MP for | :57:25. | :57:31. | |
Wickham, you removed your name from a letter that stated David Cameron | :57:32. | :57:34. | |
should stay on whatever the result as Prime Minister, why have you done | :57:35. | :57:40. | |
this? I signed the letter in a spirit of goodwill on the Monday. | :57:41. | :57:44. | |
During the week Project Fear escalated as a matter of protest I | :57:45. | :57:48. | |
took my name off and didn't put it back on. I'm happy to say tonight I | :57:49. | :57:51. | |
would be glad if the Prime Minister continued on tomorrow whatever the | :57:52. | :57:55. | |
result is. I think he does have a mandate and and a duty to stabilise | :57:56. | :57:58. | |
the markets and the country and keep the Conservative Party together. Why | :57:59. | :58:03. | |
didn't you put your name back on? Sometimes we get carried with names | :58:04. | :58:06. | |
on and off letters. I'm happy to tell people tonight I will be | :58:07. | :58:09. | |
supporting the Prime Minister in the morning. How unhappy were you with | :58:10. | :58:12. | |
what you called the punishment Budget by George Osborne? I'm happy | :58:13. | :58:16. | |
to admit I was the one who organised the 65 MPs to say that they - to | :58:17. | :58:21. | |
issue a statement to say they would vote against it. I was extremely | :58:22. | :58:27. | |
unhappy. I found it ludicrous. Remain MPs thought it was a silly | :58:28. | :58:31. | |
campaigning tactic. It was really frightening people much I didn't | :58:32. | :58:34. | |
think it was a legitimate thing to do. As a campaigning strategy we | :58:35. | :58:39. | |
responded in kind saying we voted against it. If it comes forward we | :58:40. | :58:44. | |
will do. You stated your support for David Cameron. Would you state your | :58:45. | :58:49. | |
support for George Osborne? If he brings forward that Budget we will | :58:50. | :58:53. | |
vote it down. It's a matter for the Prime Minister when all things are | :58:54. | :58:56. | |
considered. Any any of your colleagues who have not signed that | :58:57. | :58:59. | |
letter or removed them in the way that you did are going to reinstate | :59:00. | :59:04. | |
them? I don't think there is any danger of colleagues combining | :59:05. | :59:06. | |
against the Prime Minister. When you look at the number of colleagues | :59:07. | :59:09. | |
willing to sign that letter, as indeed I was, you can see that the | :59:10. | :59:12. | |
movement in the party is to keep the Prime Minister in place and to | :59:13. | :59:15. | |
ensure he's able to go forwards and stabilise the party and the country. | :59:16. | :59:18. | |
Ha is the mood of the Conservative Party. There is no appetite for | :59:19. | :59:23. | |
letters going in to have a vote of confidence. We know that he does | :59:24. | :59:26. | |
have the confidence of the party. What about a hunch tonight on the | :59:27. | :59:31. | |
result? We had a few results in. Obviously, that doesn't indicate | :59:32. | :59:33. | |
necessarily what the outcome is going to be. What is your feeling If | :59:34. | :59:38. | |
Gibraltar is representative, I'm in a lot of trouble. My feedback from | :59:39. | :59:43. | |
Leave MPs across the country - it was a mood of elation. A huge | :59:44. | :59:47. | |
turnout and huge support for leaving. Constituencies up-and-down | :59:48. | :59:50. | |
the country. I'm looking forward to seeing the results when they come | :59:51. | :59:54. | |
in. Nigel Farage seemed to indicate that Remain had the edge. They | :59:55. | :59:59. | |
polled 10,000 people. The turnout in Wickham is three quarters, 50,000 | :00:00. | :00:03. | |
people. They have polled about a fifth of the electors of Wickham who | :00:04. | :00:07. | |
voted today. That poll could easily be wrong. At the moment we have poor | :00:08. | :00:10. | |
quality data. It's the best we've got. You are confident? I am. Steve | :00:11. | :00:15. | |
Baker, thank you very much. That's it from Manchester for the moment, | :00:16. | :00:16. | |
David. Let's have a look at the front of | :00:17. | :00:24. | |
Broadcasting House. It's the only result we have had so far, and no | :00:25. | :00:28. | |
surprise at all. It's sounding as though this may be a very close run | :00:29. | :00:34. | |
result tonight on this referendum. It's just something like that. | :00:35. | :00:38. | |
Because we are getting conflicting reports all the time. We had Nigel | :00:39. | :00:45. | |
Farage saying he thought that Remain would win by a whisker, and then we | :00:46. | :00:49. | |
have this report that Newcastle is well below expectations the Remain. | :00:50. | :00:56. | |
We are waiting for the figures. This is the Newcastle count. It looks as | :00:57. | :00:59. | |
though they have pretty well wrapped it up, but these things have to be | :01:00. | :01:04. | |
well checked. The tellers, are they all from the two camps, Remain and | :01:05. | :01:13. | |
Leave? I don't mean the counters, but the tellers. They will be there, | :01:14. | :01:18. | |
and there will be people sampling. You tend to see people drifting | :01:19. | :01:23. | |
around the room, looking nervously over the shoulders of the tellers, | :01:24. | :01:27. | |
and watching as the size of the piles stacked up on the tables. | :01:28. | :01:31. | |
There are always moments of huge anticipation. Sources in the outcome | :01:32. | :01:36. | |
are saying to me that all of their sampling is looking better than they | :01:37. | :01:42. | |
had expected it to. -- sources in the Out campaign. We are getting | :01:43. | :01:46. | |
conflicting suggestions but in the last few minutes that has been what | :01:47. | :01:50. | |
has been suggested to me. Their sampling is suggesting they are | :01:51. | :01:54. | |
doing better than they thought. All of the people in recent days who | :01:55. | :01:59. | |
asked us, when can I get an idea of what has happened? The answer is, | :02:00. | :02:07. | |
not at midnight. I'm joined by an MP for the Scottish Nationalists. Nice | :02:08. | :02:09. | |
of you to join us. With these whispers, a complex picture is | :02:10. | :02:16. | |
starting to emerge. Just one result in, Gibraltar. Would you be | :02:17. | :02:20. | |
surprised if Scotland wasn't quite as unified on this vote has many | :02:21. | :02:25. | |
were predicting? It is hard to say so early in the evening, even if we | :02:26. | :02:30. | |
are trying to make conjecture about what might happen across the rest of | :02:31. | :02:34. | |
the UK. It's hard to say. I am pleased there has been a high | :02:35. | :02:38. | |
turnout in Scotland. It's been predicted between 70 and 80%, not | :02:39. | :02:45. | |
quite the 84.6 turnout in the independence referendum. We are very | :02:46. | :02:48. | |
proud of the positive campaign we have fought, and I think that will | :02:49. | :02:52. | |
reflect in a high turnout, and I am hopeful for a vote for Remain, but | :02:53. | :03:01. | |
it's early. It is. If Scotland looks like Remain... We have a Newcastle | :03:02. | :03:07. | |
result. Under the European Union Referendum Act 2015, and having been | :03:08. | :03:15. | |
authorised to do so by the regional counting officer, I hereby give | :03:16. | :03:18. | |
notice that I have certified the following. The total number of | :03:19. | :03:29. | |
ballot papers counted was 120 9072. The total number of votes coast in | :03:30. | :03:40. | |
favour of remaining was 65,404. The total number of votes cast in favour | :03:41. | :03:55. | |
of Leave was 63,598. The total number of ballot papers rejected was | :03:56. | :04:01. | |
as follows. No official mark, zero. Both answers voted for, 20. Writing | :04:02. | :04:09. | |
or mark by which the voter could be identified, five. Unmarked or void | :04:10. | :04:15. | |
for uncertainty, 44. The total number of ballot papers rejected was | :04:16. | :04:21. | |
69. So there is the first result from England, and from within Great | :04:22. | :04:30. | |
Britain that we have had. It shows the Leave campaign just a little bit | :04:31. | :04:35. | |
behind Remain, not nearly as much behind that all of the experts had | :04:36. | :04:40. | |
been saying we should expect from Newcastle upon Tyne. That is 49.3% | :04:41. | :04:53. | |
for Leave, 15.7% for Remain. That could be very significant, because | :04:54. | :04:57. | |
it is against the predictions that all the experts had made about what | :04:58. | :05:00. | |
Newcastle upon Tyne would do. John, you were talking about | :05:01. | :05:10. | |
students and people with degrees and that was why Newcastle were likely | :05:11. | :05:14. | |
to be firmly in the Remain camp. Not so. That seems to be the case. The | :05:15. | :05:18. | |
experts may have egg on their face litter tonight, or it may be that | :05:19. | :05:23. | |
this is a first sign that the Remain side are not go to do as well as the | :05:24. | :05:28. | |
early polls suggested. A couple of other things that might give the | :05:29. | :05:32. | |
Remain side reason for concern - the first is that it looks as though the | :05:33. | :05:37. | |
turnout is going to be over the 70% mark across the UK, but may be lower | :05:38. | :05:42. | |
in Scotland than elsewhere in the UK. There has not been much of a | :05:43. | :05:45. | |
campaign there, partly because virtually all of the politicians | :05:46. | :05:49. | |
were in favour. That may work against the Remain side, given how | :05:50. | :05:53. | |
pro Remain Scotland is expected to be. The second thing is that we have | :05:54. | :05:57. | |
a lot of places now where they have declared their turnout, and it looks | :05:58. | :06:01. | |
as though in places where there is a large number of pensioners, who we | :06:02. | :06:06. | |
know are more likely to vote for Leave, that these places have seen a | :06:07. | :06:09. | |
higher turnout than places where the age profile is younger. These are | :06:10. | :06:16. | |
just straws in the wind, but they are firm straws in the wind. Downing | :06:17. | :06:21. | |
Street was feeling relief at ten o'clock this evening when they heard | :06:22. | :06:25. | |
the YouGov poll, but maybe the champagne has gone back in the | :06:26. | :06:28. | |
fridge. We should say of course, that for all we have shown you | :06:29. | :06:32. | |
cancel or Sunderland or wherever, in the end, every single vote counts. | :06:33. | :06:38. | |
That is why Scotland is important because if Remain people have not | :06:39. | :06:42. | |
turned up in Scotland, those votes are lost. Yes, the pattern of | :06:43. | :06:47. | |
turnout in this referendum is as crucial as the number of votes cast. | :06:48. | :07:00. | |
Let's see the Orkney Islands result. It is 37% for Leave. It was expected | :07:01. | :07:14. | |
to be strong for Remain. We have not got Sunderland yet. Let's go to our | :07:15. | :07:19. | |
reporter in Sunderland. Do you have the result? No, David, we don't have | :07:20. | :07:31. | |
the result in Sunderland yet. They are keeping a close eye on | :07:32. | :07:38. | |
Newcastle, the 1807 vote splits between Remain and Leave. We have | :07:39. | :07:42. | |
spoken to remain campaigners here and they were quite pessimistic. We | :07:43. | :07:45. | |
spoke to three Labour campaigners who were expecting a 60-40 split | :07:46. | :07:51. | |
towards Leave. We are expecting the result in the next ten to 15 | :07:52. | :07:55. | |
minutes. What do they make of what happened in Newcastle? Very | :07:56. | :08:04. | |
surprised at how close it was. Lots of raised eyebrows here from the | :08:05. | :08:09. | |
counting officers. They are not expecting it to be as close here, | :08:10. | :08:16. | |
but they are keeping a close eye on all the results. We are expecting a | :08:17. | :08:21. | |
result here in the next ten to 15 minutes. Let's go to James Landale | :08:22. | :08:26. | |
at the Remain headquarters. What is the reaction to that first result | :08:27. | :08:33. | |
from Newcastle? Before that moment, there was a pretty optimistic mood | :08:34. | :08:39. | |
here, but when they heard that result from Newcastle, there was a | :08:40. | :08:43. | |
distinct sacking of teeth. A bit of the wind had been taken out of their | :08:44. | :08:48. | |
sails. The mood is still hopeful. They have been saying they hope the | :08:49. | :08:51. | |
economic argument has finally hit home, that the Labour vote has | :08:52. | :08:58. | |
finally begun to harden. They also think that the Leave's immigration | :08:59. | :09:02. | |
argument began to peter out towards the end of the campaign. But at the | :09:03. | :09:09. | |
moment, the one thing that is worrying them is those postal votes. | :09:10. | :09:14. | |
For them, that is one of the big unknowns. The mood is cautiously | :09:15. | :09:22. | |
optimistic. But that last result made them think twice. We were | :09:23. | :09:26. | |
talking about the postal votes here, and Laura, your view was that people | :09:27. | :09:30. | |
thought the postal votes were largely to Leave. Absolutely. All | :09:31. | :09:35. | |
the expectation about the postal votes was that they were coming in | :09:36. | :09:39. | |
heavily for Leave. Do we know about the numbers? Not an exact number, | :09:40. | :09:45. | |
but as we have seen in the turnout, very high turnout on postal votes, | :09:46. | :09:52. | |
much higher than people expected. Somebody said in their area, it was | :09:53. | :09:59. | |
as high as 40%. Maybe John Curtice knows. Do you know how many postal | :10:00. | :10:04. | |
votes we are talking about if we are talking about them tending towards | :10:05. | :10:09. | |
Leave? I think we are talking about 20% of the electorate as being | :10:10. | :10:13. | |
registered to vote by post. We expect them to be disproportionately | :10:14. | :10:17. | |
older people, so I don't think we should be surprised that they are | :10:18. | :10:22. | |
strong for Leave. How many people have cast postal votes? The level of | :10:23. | :10:28. | |
turnout amongst postal voters is always higher than the turnout among | :10:29. | :10:31. | |
the country as a whole. How many people cast a postal vote? We have | :10:32. | :10:36. | |
an Electra to 45 million and it is 20% of that. What is that? I am not | :10:37. | :10:46. | |
that quick enough edition. John Curtice could not do a song! The | :10:47. | :10:51. | |
nation falls over. Let's join Nick Watts at the headquarters for the | :10:52. | :11:04. | |
Leave campaign. We just heard from Nigel Farage in rather chaotic | :11:05. | :11:12. | |
scenes here. Conceded, unconceded? We can now say he is; ceded, | :11:13. | :11:16. | |
although that might change when he sees the result from Newcastle. He | :11:17. | :11:21. | |
is setting up a battle on two France. If Leave have lost comedy is | :11:22. | :11:25. | |
setting up a battle against Vote Leave, but also a battle against the | :11:26. | :11:30. | |
Conservative leadership, saying he will still continue this battle and | :11:31. | :11:33. | |
will not give up and would be almost looking to Scotland and hoping would | :11:34. | :11:37. | |
be in a never-ending referendum territory. I was also talking to | :11:38. | :11:42. | |
Kate Hoey, one of the leading figures on the Labour Leave side, | :11:43. | :11:45. | |
and she was saying when looking at the Newcastle result that that tells | :11:46. | :11:49. | |
us the story of this campaign, that people only woke up to it at the | :11:50. | :11:53. | |
latter stages, which is this disconnect between the leadership of | :11:54. | :11:56. | |
the Labour Party, who are overwhelmingly in favour of EU | :11:57. | :12:01. | |
membership, and the grassroots members, who do not share that view | :12:02. | :12:04. | |
of the European Union. Just to clarify in case you are confused by | :12:05. | :12:13. | |
these headquarters, this is Aaron Banks' website, which was not -- it | :12:14. | :12:20. | |
was the headquarters of leave.EU, not to be confused with the official | :12:21. | :12:25. | |
campaign, Vote Leave, who are not having a party. Until ten p.m., we | :12:26. | :12:29. | |
were focused on getting out the vote. The campaign do not have time | :12:30. | :12:36. | |
for champagne, they have been too hard-working. Emily. David, I am | :12:37. | :12:46. | |
going to pick up with Tasmina Ahmed-Sheikh, our MP from the | :12:47. | :12:50. | |
Scottish Nationalists. The point John Curtice was making about | :12:51. | :12:54. | |
turnout being central in Scotland and London. Orkney had 68%, lower | :12:55. | :13:02. | |
than many would expect. Is it possible that the turnout was | :13:03. | :13:06. | |
depressed because of this uniformity of message that was coming from all | :13:07. | :13:12. | |
the leaders saying the same thing in Scotland? It is difficult to say. | :13:13. | :13:16. | |
But it was positive that the leaders were united in their view that it is | :13:17. | :13:20. | |
best for Scotland and best for the UK to remain within the EU. If you | :13:21. | :13:24. | |
contrast that with the campaign we have seen across the UK, which | :13:25. | :13:28. | |
unfortunately has been very much based on internal Tory party | :13:29. | :13:31. | |
fighting, exacerbated further by a letter that Tory MPs found | :13:32. | :13:37. | |
themselves required to sign asking Cameron to remain, we heard from | :13:38. | :13:41. | |
Chris Grayling when he was talking about having been a signatory to | :13:42. | :13:45. | |
this letter. But let's remember that there are government ministers that | :13:46. | :13:49. | |
did not trust their leader's judgment on the issue of the EU | :13:50. | :13:53. | |
referendum. So a lot of what has to be done within the Tory party | :13:54. | :14:00. | |
whatever happens. There may yet be work for the Remain camp. We saw the | :14:01. | :14:05. | |
result from Newcastle, a windfall Remain, but on a very slight margin. | :14:06. | :14:11. | |
Does that put the panic into your camp? All of the results we have | :14:12. | :14:16. | |
heard have been wins for Remain. We have such a long way to go. | :14:17. | :14:20. | |
Everybody agrees it would be impossible to predict the results. | :14:21. | :14:25. | |
Let's hope it benefits Scotland and the whole of the UK. Nicola Sturgeon | :14:26. | :14:29. | |
suggested during the campaign that if there was a Leave vote, Scotland | :14:30. | :14:33. | |
might decide it was time for a second referendum. It was a big | :14:34. | :14:38. | |
enough event to trigger a second referendum on Scottish independence. | :14:39. | :14:47. | |
If it is a Remain vote, with the SNP then put any thought of a referendum | :14:48. | :14:52. | |
behind it? It will come as no surprise to you that the SNP want | :14:53. | :14:57. | |
independence for Scotland. We would of course respect the result of the | :14:58. | :15:02. | |
referendum we had in 2014, but it is a matter for the people of Scotland | :15:03. | :15:05. | |
whether to have a second independence referendum. It is not | :15:06. | :15:12. | |
for any politician to dictate to the people of Scotland when that should | :15:13. | :15:17. | |
happen. But if it was a safe Remain vote, with that second referendum of | :15:18. | :15:20. | |
independence for Scotland then be off the table? Independence for | :15:21. | :15:24. | |
Scotland should never be off the table. It is the reason for being of | :15:25. | :15:29. | |
the SNP. We would love Scotland to be an independent country within the | :15:30. | :15:32. | |
EU, with our own voice and sit at the table, batting for Scotland at | :15:33. | :15:41. | |
every juncture. Amber Rudd, before you leave us to make way for another | :15:42. | :15:46. | |
guest, are you a bit uneasy about what has come through? I am going to | :15:47. | :15:51. | |
be uneasy until we have a final result. It is going to be a long | :15:52. | :15:56. | |
night, but we remain hopeful that we read a good case for people to stay | :15:57. | :16:01. | |
in. But I asked whether you were feeling uneasy about the Newcastle | :16:02. | :16:07. | |
result. It is the only result we have had, and according to John | :16:08. | :16:11. | |
Curtice, who has been working this out, leaving aside Gibraltar, he has | :16:12. | :16:15. | |
been working this out for months and it should have been a much bigger | :16:16. | :16:20. | |
gap between Leave and Remain. As you say, there are 380 of these results | :16:21. | :16:25. | |
to come in. So yes, I am uneasy, but I have been uneasy from the moment | :16:26. | :16:31. | |
the polls closed. I don't judge anything from that particular | :16:32. | :16:33. | |
results because there are so many more to come. You don't think your | :16:34. | :16:38. | |
campaign has been as effective as you would have liked? It was never | :16:39. | :16:42. | |
going to be a walkover. We always knew it would be tight. When David | :16:43. | :16:45. | |
Cameron made his Bloomberg speech and polls were taken after that, | :16:46. | :16:48. | |
more people were thinking they wanted to leave that state. It was | :16:49. | :16:52. | |
always going to be tight. It is an important issue. We have had three | :16:53. | :16:58. | |
results, Orkney as well, voting to Remain. Newcastle upon Tyne, Remain | :16:59. | :17:12. | |
down to 50.7. And Gibraltar, 95.9%. That is how things stand. Something | :17:13. | :17:20. | |
we are hearing from tasters of results coming in from elsewhere, | :17:21. | :17:25. | |
Sunderland and Crawley are looking good for Leave. As we came on air, | :17:26. | :17:32. | |
we had cautious optimism from people like Amber from Remain who thought | :17:33. | :17:36. | |
they were safer. But suggestions are coming in that Leave are looking at | :17:37. | :17:42. | |
big wins in some areas. I should explain the bottom half of our | :17:43. | :17:46. | |
screen. You saw Clackmannanshire going through voting to Remain. We | :17:47. | :17:52. | |
will have each of these counting areas showing as the results come | :17:53. | :18:02. | |
through. In the bottom right, Remain lead by 27,000 256. At this stage, | :18:03. | :18:09. | |
there is not -- that is not a figure you can attach much importance to. | :18:10. | :18:13. | |
It will change as the figures come through. At some point, when we get | :18:14. | :18:17. | |
an idea of how many people voted, we will be able to give an indication | :18:18. | :18:21. | |
of how many votes are needed to win one way or the other. But at this | :18:22. | :18:26. | |
stage, it is just a figure to keep an eye on. Don't ask me why we chose | :18:27. | :18:34. | |
those colours for Leave and Remain. They are the colours of the European | :18:35. | :18:39. | |
Union flag. They are just colours we chose for tonight. We cannot use | :18:40. | :18:43. | |
blue for the Conservatives and yellow for the Liberals. | :18:44. | :18:55. | |
Now, we are joined by Ruth Davidson, the hero of the debate at Wembley, | :18:56. | :19:03. | |
it seems other with people saying you should stand for the Westminster | :19:04. | :19:07. | |
Parliament on the strength of that and fight for the leadership of the | :19:08. | :19:11. | |
Conservative Party in the UK as a whole, not just in Scotland. I think | :19:12. | :19:15. | |
people are forgetting that with the devolution settlement we have in | :19:16. | :19:18. | |
Scotland, the job I am doing in Holyrood is a pretty big job. I get | :19:19. | :19:24. | |
to stand up to Nicola Sturgeon, a big job in itself. I am happy where | :19:25. | :19:32. | |
I am. What do you make of the argument we were hearing just now | :19:33. | :19:36. | |
that Scotland may have a slightly low turnout, people may not have | :19:37. | :19:42. | |
been excited by the campaign in Scotland? Let me come back to you. | :19:43. | :19:44. | |
We have a result from Sunderland. The accounting officer for the | :19:45. | :19:55. | |
Sunderland boating area at the referendum held on 23rd of June 2016 | :19:56. | :20:03. | |
under the European Union Referendum Act 2015 and, having been authorised | :20:04. | :20:08. | |
to do so by the regional accounting officer, I hereby give notice that I | :20:09. | :20:12. | |
have certified the following. The total number of ballot papers | :20:13. | :20:21. | |
counted was 134,400. The total number of votes cast in favour of | :20:22. | :20:29. | |
Remain was 51,930. The total number of votes cast in favour of Leave was | :20:30. | :20:39. | |
82,000... . CHEERING DROWNED SPEECH | :20:40. | :20:59. | |
The total number of votes cast in favour of Leave was 82,000 394. The | :21:00. | :21:13. | |
number of ballot papers rejected was as followed. No official mark, zero. | :21:14. | :21:22. | |
Both answers voted for,... Right, we've now had this second result in. | :21:23. | :21:28. | |
Let's just go to Jeremy Vine and see, and I'll come back to you, | :21:29. | :21:34. | |
Ruth, in just a second. Let's go and see where these two results fit in | :21:35. | :21:37. | |
with the pattern you fit there, where they go on your slide rule, as | :21:38. | :21:46. | |
I think of it. To save these results are interesting is an | :21:47. | :21:48. | |
understatement. Let's quickly go through what we know. If you look at | :21:49. | :21:54. | |
the map, we've had results from the very north of the country, Orkney, | :21:55. | :22:00. | |
to write at the foot of the map, Gibraltar, with that very strong | :22:01. | :22:05. | |
Remain result. A 90% margin for Remain in Gibraltar, that's right | :22:06. | :22:12. | |
down the end of our index. Remember, this index was built to show us how | :22:13. | :22:18. | |
Eurosceptical 382 counting areas were. We've had those two results | :22:19. | :22:23. | |
from Newcastle and Sunderland, not glossing over Orkney and Gerald, but | :22:24. | :22:29. | |
there are very few voters there. Newcastle and Sunderland in a lot of | :22:30. | :22:33. | |
votes. Let's try and work out where they fit into our index and what | :22:34. | :22:38. | |
they mean. Newcastle, a strong Remain. According to our index, it's | :22:39. | :22:43. | |
one of the 40 most likely to vote for Remain, so beside it you can | :22:44. | :22:49. | |
seek Orkney and Gibraltar at the end, but we are focusing on | :22:50. | :22:54. | |
Newcastle. Looking at that, you expect a sizeable margin to remain | :22:55. | :22:59. | |
in Newcastle. Let's have a look at what happened. Look at how close | :23:00. | :23:05. | |
that is. It's nothing like what our index suggested, barely 1% in it, | :23:06. | :23:12. | |
and now, it could be that, as John Curtice was saying, that when we | :23:13. | :23:16. | |
analysed Newcastle, we missed something, that actually there was a | :23:17. | :23:21. | |
strong, latent Leave vote in Newcastle which the data didn't | :23:22. | :23:25. | |
suggest. I'm putting it out as a dramatic outlier. It looked like a | :23:26. | :23:31. | |
strong Remain place and it isn't. Now Sunderland, in a different | :23:32. | :23:35. | |
position on the board. It is actually a little way into Leave. | :23:36. | :23:41. | |
There are 382 areas, so it isn't a long way in, but you'd expect a | :23:42. | :23:46. | |
solid margin for Leave in Sunderland. Let's look at what we | :23:47. | :23:52. | |
actually saw. You can see 61% for Leave and 39% for Remain. So 20 or | :23:53. | :24:00. | |
more points gap. Looking at our board, you'd think that a bit more | :24:01. | :24:05. | |
than Leave and we might have been expecting. It's not that far off the | :24:06. | :24:11. | |
centre, Sunderland. You might have expected it to be tighter. These | :24:12. | :24:15. | |
results are given us something to think about. We are looking at the | :24:16. | :24:21. | |
index, wondering about our order. We are thinking, is the Leave vote | :24:22. | :24:24. | |
stronger than anyone was thinking? We will find out but, my goodness, | :24:25. | :24:29. | |
Newcastle and Sunderland... Don't anyone go to bed yet! The markets | :24:30. | :24:35. | |
have been very sensitive over the last few days. Kamal Ahmed is here. | :24:36. | :24:40. | |
You have news that these results have already affected the markets. | :24:41. | :24:45. | |
There are some relatively sweaty traders out there tonight. A lot of | :24:46. | :24:51. | |
strength in sterling earlier on, after the polls suggested Remain had | :24:52. | :24:55. | |
done very well. In the last few minutes, sterling has come down | :24:56. | :25:00. | |
markedly of a high of $1 50, its highest in the year. It has fallen | :25:01. | :25:05. | |
by three or 4 cents in the last few minutes. Traders are sitting there, | :25:06. | :25:10. | |
looking at result in Newcastle and Sunderland, and thinking, and one a | :25:11. | :25:14. | |
minute, maybe those polls are a little bit too optimistic for | :25:15. | :25:20. | |
Remain. We are in the wrong position on sterling. Sterling would be | :25:21. | :25:24. | |
expected to fall markedly if Britain left the EU. They may be on the | :25:25. | :25:28. | |
wrong side of this trade at the moment. There is some significant | :25:29. | :25:32. | |
selling. What you are going to get over the next few hours is great | :25:33. | :25:37. | |
volatility for sterling. They are making a lot of money while they are | :25:38. | :25:40. | |
doing this is to mock somebody will be. Just to explain the point, why, | :25:41. | :25:48. | |
if it is a vote for Leave, will sterling fall? Investors will think | :25:49. | :25:56. | |
it could be bad for the UK economy. The economists say, if Britain left | :25:57. | :26:01. | |
the EU, that could become in the short term at least, bad for the UK | :26:02. | :26:05. | |
economy, and investor sentiment might turn against Britain. Britain | :26:06. | :26:10. | |
runs a current account deficit. As Mark Connolly, governor of the Bank | :26:11. | :26:16. | |
of England, said, we need the kindness of strangers to support our | :26:17. | :26:21. | |
debts. -- mark Carney. If people start thinking that they are not | :26:22. | :26:24. | |
sure about the UK economy, it would mean that sterling started falling. | :26:25. | :26:30. | |
But you will be keeping an eye on it? I will. We can rejoin Ruth | :26:31. | :26:36. | |
Davidson. Thank you for your patience. The leader of the Scottish | :26:37. | :26:41. | |
Conservatives. I was asking whether there was a worry in Scotland that | :26:42. | :26:45. | |
the Remain camp and the people who wanted Remain might not have pulled | :26:46. | :26:49. | |
their weight, because the campaign itself was rather lacklustre. In | :26:50. | :26:55. | |
Scotland, we are looking at a turnout not as high as the | :26:56. | :26:59. | |
independence referendum, which was 85%, extraordinarily high by | :27:00. | :27:04. | |
democratic event in the UK, but it is looking as though it is running | :27:05. | :27:11. | |
around or above 70%, higher than Scottish Parliamentary elections | :27:12. | :27:14. | |
last month and the general election. I think it's been a pretty good | :27:15. | :27:20. | |
turnout. Are you disconcerted by the news so far from the two English | :27:21. | :27:25. | |
results we have had? I think it's a little bit early to tell. Five out | :27:26. | :27:32. | |
of 382 declared, two of them in Scotland, Clackmannanshire and | :27:33. | :27:35. | |
Orkney, one of them in the middle of the central belt, one in the | :27:36. | :27:39. | |
northern isles. That isn't enough to tell us about Scotland and I don't | :27:40. | :27:43. | |
think two seats from the north-east is enough to tell us about all of | :27:44. | :27:48. | |
England. They are not seats, just numbers of votes. Sorry, local | :27:49. | :27:54. | |
authority areas. I am in election mode! In those areas, I don't think | :27:55. | :27:59. | |
that is enough for us to say. In terms of Scotland, you will find | :28:00. | :28:04. | |
catchiness across the country. In Dumfries and Galloway and the | :28:05. | :28:09. | |
south-west and the Moray Firth, you will find it closed a 50-50. You may | :28:10. | :28:15. | |
get a surprise in the Western Isles which, in 1975, voted against. The | :28:16. | :28:21. | |
rest of the country, places like my constituency in Edinburgh, you seen | :28:22. | :28:26. | |
votes that look as though it will come out about 3-1, more than 70% | :28:27. | :28:33. | |
for In. It will be a mixed picture. Just a word that the Conservative | :28:34. | :28:37. | |
Party, do you see it as something in Scotland very separate from | :28:38. | :28:40. | |
Westminster? If the Conservative Party in Westminster goes into | :28:41. | :28:46. | |
turmoil, with only one MP from north of the border, if it goes into | :28:47. | :28:50. | |
turmoil over this, would you distance the Scottish Conservative | :28:51. | :28:55. | |
Party and say, look, we are really involved in politics in Scotland, | :28:56. | :28:58. | |
and you can have chaos in the south if you want, but we will go our own | :28:59. | :29:02. | |
way and work out our own policies and our own election stance. When I | :29:03. | :29:09. | |
fought my leadership election, it was on a platform of keeping our | :29:10. | :29:13. | |
party together. While we are devolved in Scotland and I have | :29:14. | :29:16. | |
responsibility for lots of areas, it is to be a part of the UK | :29:17. | :29:20. | |
Conservative Party. I don't accept the premise of your question. We as | :29:21. | :29:26. | |
a party have much more that keeps us together than divides us. It has | :29:27. | :29:29. | |
been a passionate debate but remember, a year ago, my colleagues | :29:30. | :29:34. | |
in London were elected on a manifesto to govern, a manifesto to | :29:35. | :29:38. | |
have a referendum on the European Union. We have carried that out. We | :29:39. | :29:43. | |
will respect the result, whichever it is. And after that, as democrats, | :29:44. | :29:48. | |
we will respect the will of the people of this country, come back | :29:49. | :29:51. | |
together, and governed to the manifesto on which we were elected. | :29:52. | :29:56. | |
Judging by what you said in Wembley arena, you don't have much respect | :29:57. | :30:01. | |
for Boris Johnson. I don't think you could take that at all. There was no | :30:02. | :30:05. | |
personal invective. It was a passionate debate on the issues. | :30:06. | :30:11. | |
They have been good, hearty issues to talk about, the economy, | :30:12. | :30:14. | |
immigration, security, this country's played in the world. Wedge | :30:15. | :30:21. | |
saying, you have lied about Europe, you have lied about Turkey. The | :30:22. | :30:28. | |
campaign. That is what I was saying. The campaign had made contestable | :30:29. | :30:33. | |
claims. I think that, you know, when all of the dust settles, we should | :30:34. | :30:38. | |
be able to look at a passionate campaign that was carried out in a | :30:39. | :30:41. | |
way to bring those arguments to people in the country but then come | :30:42. | :30:45. | |
back together as a party and Govan to the manifesto to which my | :30:46. | :30:52. | |
colleagues were elected. -- and to govern. Are you concerned about the | :30:53. | :30:56. | |
state of the Conservative Party is to mock some of the younger | :30:57. | :31:00. | |
elements... Myself, I don't remember the Maastricht years for stuff I | :31:01. | :31:05. | |
have plenty of colleagues from recent intakes that haven't seen a | :31:06. | :31:08. | |
previous issue regarding Europe in my party. I know with broadcasters | :31:09. | :31:15. | |
like a longer -- with a longer track record like to point to it. We want | :31:16. | :31:19. | |
to get on with the job we were elected to do. European politics | :31:20. | :31:25. | |
isn't what drives us. It is about social mobility, managing the | :31:26. | :31:28. | |
economy, reforming public services, giving people opportunities and | :31:29. | :31:31. | |
helping with education, for people to be able to advance themselves and | :31:32. | :31:36. | |
bring the country and themselves up. This is what drives us, not carrying | :31:37. | :31:42. | |
out a European feud. We are joined by Leanne Wood from Plaid Cymru in | :31:43. | :31:47. | |
Wales. What is the story, as far as you can tell, about what is | :31:48. | :31:51. | |
happening in Wales? There has been a lot of talk. First of all, it was | :31:52. | :31:56. | |
going to be absolutely Remain, then people started saying it might be | :31:57. | :32:02. | |
Leave, and then Ukip did well in the AM elections. What do you think is | :32:03. | :32:07. | |
happening? I think it is going to be close. It looks as though those | :32:08. | :32:11. | |
areas suffering from deprivation and poverty the most are the ones who | :32:12. | :32:16. | |
are strongest in favour of the Remain position was that I think | :32:17. | :32:22. | |
that, you know, we just had a Welsh Assembly election, and there was a | :32:23. | :32:27. | |
strong feeling there that people wanted change, and I think that this | :32:28. | :32:30. | |
referendum is given an opportunity for that voice to carry on being | :32:31. | :32:37. | |
put. But it is a wake-up call, I think, for the entire political | :32:38. | :32:42. | |
class. It's clear that things can't just carry on as they are, the | :32:43. | :32:46. | |
status quo can't just continue. Something needs to give. What we | :32:47. | :32:51. | |
need to do, from Plaid Cymru's perspective, is to strengthen the | :32:52. | :32:55. | |
Welsh Assembly now and to make sure that we've got an institution that | :32:56. | :33:00. | |
can deliver for people in a way that politics isn't delivered in at the | :33:01. | :33:04. | |
moment. Thank you. We got more news about a pound. It has taken a | :33:05. | :33:10. | |
hammering since that Sunderland result, which seems to suggest that | :33:11. | :33:16. | |
Leave might be doing a lot better. It is down 6% in the last few | :33:17. | :33:21. | |
minutes. That is a hammer ring we will not have seen on the market | :33:22. | :33:26. | |
since 2008 and the financial crisis. That is a significant move. Earlier | :33:27. | :33:30. | |
on this evening, I wrote that, if the markets have got this wrong with | :33:31. | :33:36. | |
their positive sense that Remain was doing well, there would be an | :33:37. | :33:40. | |
almighty correction in the value of sterling into the market this | :33:41. | :33:46. | |
morning and into Friday. And, boy, are we seeing that. Everybody is | :33:47. | :33:50. | |
going to be watching the next few results to see if that Sunderland | :33:51. | :33:54. | |
result was an outlier, but certainly a lot traders and thought that | :33:55. | :34:00. | |
Remain had a very good night are now selling out of sterling as quickly | :34:01. | :34:05. | |
as they can. The grafts are remarkable, almost vertically down | :34:06. | :34:08. | |
at the moment, sterling. -- the graphs. We are joined by the Labour | :34:09. | :34:20. | |
MP for Wallasey and a Ukip MEP for south-east England, but we have to | :34:21. | :34:27. | |
get the latest news first. So, we go back to Broadcasting House and the | :34:28. | :34:32. | |
results as we have them at the moment. Unfortunately, the result | :34:33. | :34:37. | |
you see is on the right-hand side the building and we can't exactly | :34:38. | :34:47. | |
see it from here. It comes. -- here it comes. That is a helpful comment. | :34:48. | :34:53. | |
But it looks beautiful, lovely lights. This is how it stands at the | :34:54. | :35:06. | |
moment. That is 50.5 four Leave and 40.54 Remain at the moment. -- 50.5 | :35:07. | :35:14. | |
four Leave and 49.5 to Remain. Counting is under way of tens | :35:15. | :35:22. | |
of millions of votes in the EU referendum, with a handful | :35:23. | :35:26. | |
of results being declared. In the last few minutes, | :35:27. | :35:28. | |
Sunderland have voted to leave Newcastle, which was one | :35:29. | :35:31. | |
of the first to declare, backed Remain by a very | :35:32. | :35:34. | |
narrow margin of 1%. 46 million people nationwide | :35:35. | :35:36. | |
were eligible to vote, Here's our Political Correspondent | :35:37. | :35:38. | |
Eleanor Garnier and her report It was the moment | :35:39. | :35:42. | |
polling stations closed. declare, Gibraltar, with a disaster | :35:43. | :36:07. | |
vote in favour of Remain. Not long after, Newcastle, with a narrow win | :36:08. | :36:15. | |
for Remain. 65,000 404. A much smaller wind than expected. But in | :36:16. | :36:19. | |
Sunderland, a huge win for Leave, with 61%. At a Leave campaign party, | :36:20. | :36:27. | |
the Ukip leader remained defensive. Win or lose this battle tonight, we | :36:28. | :36:33. | |
will win this war. We will get our country back. We will get our | :36:34. | :36:36. | |
independence back, and we will get our borders back. Thank you. With | :36:37. | :36:42. | |
only a trickle of results in, politicians are keeping their | :36:43. | :36:45. | |
fingers crossed. We are proud in Scotland of the positive campaign we | :36:46. | :36:49. | |
have fought, and that will reflect a high turnout and I am hopeful for a | :36:50. | :36:56. | |
vote for Remain. Tonight it has emerged that prominent Leave | :36:57. | :36:59. | |
campaigners Boris Johnson and Michael Gove are among a group of | :37:00. | :37:03. | |
MPs who have signed a letter calling on David Cameron to carry on, | :37:04. | :37:07. | |
whatever the result. It has been a ferocious and fractious campaign, | :37:08. | :37:11. | |
and there are wounds that need to be healed. | :37:12. | :37:13. | |
Following the first results, the pound has fallen dramatically. | :37:14. | :37:15. | |
Initially it rose on expectations that the UK would stay in the EU | :37:16. | :37:18. | |
When the New York Stock Exchange closed, | :37:19. | :37:21. | |
the pound was trading at just under $1.49 but it has fallen as low | :37:22. | :37:28. | |
The FTSE-100 share index also closed up over 1% today. | :37:29. | :37:34. | |
A man has been jailed for life for plotting a beheading | :37:35. | :37:36. | |
on the streets of London, inspired by so-called | :37:37. | :37:38. | |
Islamic State, which could have targeted a poppy seller. | :37:39. | :37:41. | |
23-year-old Nadir Syed was arrested in November 2014, | :37:42. | :37:45. | |
Teachers in England are to stage a one-day strike on the 5th July | :37:46. | :37:52. | |
The Government described the action by the National Union of Teachers | :37:53. | :37:58. | |
More from our education correspondent, Gillian Hargreaves. | :37:59. | :38:04. | |
The teaching unions say there are too many, in their words, | :38:05. | :38:07. | |
huge cuts to school budgets and there is discontent over | :38:08. | :38:12. | |
The acting general secretary of the National Union of Teachers | :38:13. | :38:19. | |
said teachers can't go on like this without significant change. | :38:20. | :38:22. | |
The Government say this is unnecessary, it's damaging, | :38:23. | :38:26. | |
and they are perfectly happy to talk to the unions about this and try | :38:27. | :38:29. | |
There is that strike planned for 5th July and more planned | :38:30. | :38:39. | |
serious flooding in parts of London and in south-east England. | :38:40. | :38:48. | |
Several commuter and Underground lines in the capital suffered | :38:49. | :38:51. | |
There were more problems this evening as commuters tried to get | :38:52. | :38:54. | |
One of the world's longest running civil wars, in Colombia, | :38:55. | :38:58. | |
has been brought to an end after more than 50 | :38:59. | :39:00. | |
The so-called FARC rebels have signed a deal to lay | :39:01. | :39:03. | |
down their arms following three years of negotiations. | :39:04. | :39:12. | |
As I said a moment ago, I am joined by Diane James and Angela eagle and | :39:13. | :39:33. | |
Vernon Bogner, professor of government at King's College in | :39:34. | :39:39. | |
London. This is a dramatic story that seems to be unfolding here. | :39:40. | :39:45. | |
Angela, what do you make of it? It is too early to tell. We have known | :39:46. | :39:50. | |
all the way through that this was going to be a result on a knife | :39:51. | :39:53. | |
edge. The polls have been all over the place and after last year's | :39:54. | :39:57. | |
general election, we don't even know whether to believe the polls. My | :39:58. | :40:03. | |
experience out campaigning, insomuch as you can get experience of 46 | :40:04. | :40:07. | |
million votes, is that it has been pretty close. And we are seeing that | :40:08. | :40:18. | |
with the initial results. Your Shadow Chancellor, John McDonnell, | :40:19. | :40:22. | |
has said that the result from Sunderland was almost likely to be a | :40:23. | :40:27. | |
by-election protest vote. In other words, the scale of the exit of the | :40:28. | :40:35. | |
No vote. He said people are cheesed off and migration is a big issue. Do | :40:36. | :40:41. | |
you agree? Yes, but we also have a protest from communities that have | :40:42. | :40:47. | |
been under the most pressure. And the Leave campaign have scapegoated | :40:48. | :40:51. | |
the European Union as the cause of that pressure, whereas actually, the | :40:52. | :40:54. | |
cause of a lot of that pressure is the cuts and the Conservative | :40:55. | :40:58. | |
policies which have put the most pressure on the most vulnerable | :40:59. | :41:03. | |
communities. I think that if Leave wins, they will have been successful | :41:04. | :41:07. | |
at getting people who are under enormous pressure in their own | :41:08. | :41:10. | |
communities to blame the European Union as a scapegoat, rather than | :41:11. | :41:14. | |
blame the national Conservative government. Diane James, you have | :41:15. | :41:20. | |
conned them if they vote to leave? I don't think so at all. Let me take a | :41:21. | :41:27. | |
different viewpoint. You have highlighted that this is the Nissan | :41:28. | :41:33. | |
car plant. Nissan was one of those companies that was effectively asked | :41:34. | :41:36. | |
by the Prime Minister to write a letter to the employees, and what | :41:37. | :41:40. | |
you are seeing here is the reaction to that, which I understand has been | :41:41. | :41:45. | |
widespread across the country, where people have taken offence at being | :41:46. | :41:53. | |
directed to do something, and that message has been undermined at a | :41:54. | :41:59. | |
later stage. There is a classic he in terms of the German CBI | :42:00. | :42:03. | |
equivalent today saying there will not be any terrorists or negative | :42:04. | :42:07. | |
reaction in terms of trade between the two countries. I don't agree | :42:08. | :42:14. | |
with Angela at all on this about conning or trying to blame the EU. | :42:15. | :42:21. | |
The Leave campaign has presented quite accurately what the issue is | :42:22. | :42:25. | |
in terms of immigration and linking it to the freedom of movement. The | :42:26. | :42:31. | |
fact that Turkey is going to join any minute wasn't accurate. There | :42:32. | :42:38. | |
were Leave leaflets put out which hinted strongly that Syria and Iraq | :42:39. | :42:41. | |
were going to join the European Union. This is a post truth kind of | :42:42. | :42:49. | |
campaign, and it has played on people'sfears and has divided the | :42:50. | :42:55. | |
country. Whatever the result, the Prime Minister needs to realise that | :42:56. | :43:00. | |
he cannot keep imposing the worst burdens of cuts on the communities | :43:01. | :43:03. | |
that are least able to cope with them. Vernon, watching the results | :43:04. | :43:10. | |
as they have come in, do you think it will be a tight run thing | :43:11. | :43:17. | |
tonight? Indications from the early results are that Leave is doing much | :43:18. | :43:21. | |
better than one would have predicted. The tight result in | :43:22. | :43:24. | |
Newcastle, where Remain could have hoped for a large victory, because | :43:25. | :43:28. | |
we are told that university towns and graduates are strongly in favour | :43:29. | :43:34. | |
of Remain, the large victory for Leave in Sunderland and also the | :43:35. | :43:37. | |
predicted low turnout in Scotland are all good indications for the | :43:38. | :43:45. | |
Leave camp. It is no more than a possibility, but we do have to face | :43:46. | :43:49. | |
the possibility that Leave will win this referendum and Britain will | :43:50. | :43:52. | |
leave the European Union. Whether that happens or not, it is obviously | :43:53. | :43:58. | |
a close result. One cannot deny that it is a real kick to the British | :43:59. | :44:01. | |
establishment, because all three party leaders have favoured a Remain | :44:02. | :44:08. | |
vote. Businesses have favoured a Remain vote, the financial leaders | :44:09. | :44:13. | |
have favoured a Remain vote. The people have not taken their advice, | :44:14. | :44:17. | |
it appears. The latest results are on the screen. Sunderland, | :44:18. | :44:23. | |
Clackmannanshire, Orkney, Newcastle upon Tyne. We go now to North | :44:24. | :44:41. | |
Warwickshire and join our reporter. What do you have for us? In the last | :44:42. | :44:49. | |
few moments, I have spoken with the Leave campaign here, who has been | :44:50. | :44:53. | |
wandering around with his clipboard. The story appears to be that the | :44:54. | :44:57. | |
Leave vote is much stronger than expected. He has just upgraded his | :44:58. | :45:04. | |
estimate. He believes the spit is 70-30 in favour of Leave. I have | :45:05. | :45:11. | |
been talking to the Conservative MP here, Craig Tracy, and he has been | :45:12. | :45:14. | |
having a chat with his counterparts up the road, who have also been | :45:15. | :45:19. | |
campaigning to Leave in Nuneaton and Bedworth. The estimates there are as | :45:20. | :45:24. | |
high as 80-20 in favour of Leave. The count he is going swiftly. We | :45:25. | :45:30. | |
expect the result by 1.30. I have also spoken to Mike O'Brien, the | :45:31. | :45:34. | |
former Labour MP who held his seat number of years ago. He has been | :45:35. | :45:37. | |
campaigning to Remain, but he shrugged his shoulders earlier when | :45:38. | :45:41. | |
chatting with me and saying it was always going to be an uphill task | :45:42. | :45:45. | |
trying to convert people who want to leave to the Remain. Let's join Luke | :45:46. | :45:56. | |
Walton in Hartlepool. What is the message you are getting there? What | :45:57. | :46:00. | |
we have been getting so far in all the places we have had is that the | :46:01. | :46:05. | |
strength of Leave is greater than people anticipated. It looks like it | :46:06. | :46:13. | |
is going to be a good result for Leave in Hartlepool. It was always | :46:14. | :46:18. | |
expected that there would be a Leave lead, but now we are respecting as | :46:19. | :46:23. | |
much as 70% of votes to go to Leave, possibly more. Great despondency | :46:24. | :46:28. | |
among the Remain campaigners, Leave very buoyant. It was always going to | :46:29. | :46:33. | |
be a happy hunting ground for Leave, because Ukip are strong here. They | :46:34. | :46:37. | |
came second in the general election and have been picking up council | :46:38. | :46:41. | |
seats. Nonetheless, Leave have been happy with the way the campaign have | :46:42. | :46:46. | |
gone. They say immigration is coming up on the doorstep, even though | :46:47. | :46:49. | |
Hartlepool has a small number of EU migrants. They are also picking up | :46:50. | :46:54. | |
general anger about the state of the local economy, decline of local | :46:55. | :46:58. | |
industry, perhaps the closure of the blast furnace in Redcar was a | :46:59. | :47:03. | |
factor. And also more general frustration about the political | :47:04. | :47:08. | |
class, a sense of wanting to put one over on politicians, a sense that | :47:09. | :47:12. | |
the EU was a cash cow that they were paying for. There is a generalised | :47:13. | :47:19. | |
feeling that I am picking up in Hartlepool and across the | :47:20. | :47:22. | |
north-east. We are expecting the declaration in about an hour. I | :47:23. | :47:27. | |
think 70% or thereabouts is where we are heading. Let's look at this | :47:28. | :47:33. | |
chart, which gives a dramatic picture of sterling. I suspect it | :47:34. | :47:41. | |
may have gone down since then. That is the fall in sterling on the basis | :47:42. | :47:49. | |
of the few results we have had. Sunderland and Newcastle. And what | :47:50. | :47:52. | |
we are hearing from North Warwickshire and Nuneaton will not | :47:53. | :47:57. | |
have done much good. I have just received an expectation that in | :47:58. | :48:01. | |
Lewisham in London, Remain might have it by as much as 83%. That | :48:02. | :48:06. | |
contrasts with what we heard from North Warwickshire of 80-20 to | :48:07. | :48:13. | |
Leave. It may be that we end up with a pattern, London versus the rest of | :48:14. | :48:19. | |
the country. Maybe London becomes its own country. People have | :48:20. | :48:26. | |
sincerely talked about London being such a powerhouse that it itself | :48:27. | :48:33. | |
feels that it shouldn't be bound I watched the rest of the country | :48:34. | :48:38. | |
thinks. Gaps as the professor was suggesting, whatever the final | :48:39. | :48:44. | |
result is, the closeness of this suggests that it is a big kick in | :48:45. | :48:48. | |
the teeth to the establishment, which is nearly all based in London. | :48:49. | :48:52. | |
We have had a result from foil in Northern Ireland. These results will | :48:53. | :48:56. | |
all be added together before we got a formal Northern Ireland should | :48:57. | :49:04. | |
result. It is a strong nationalist area, where we would have expected | :49:05. | :49:12. | |
this. Let's join Emily again. We can speak to Ed Miliband, the former | :49:13. | :49:18. | |
Labour leader, your thoughts on the Sunderland result, was that a shock? | :49:19. | :49:26. | |
Well, it is early, but what we are seeing in some Labour areas is two | :49:27. | :49:31. | |
things going on. There is concern about immigration, and then there is | :49:32. | :49:35. | |
wider concern about the direction of the country. Knocking on doors in my | :49:36. | :49:39. | |
constituency today, I don't know what the result will be there yet | :49:40. | :49:43. | |
but lots of people are concerned about immigration, that they are | :49:44. | :49:47. | |
raising a whole set of issues about the NHS, about that kid the Mac life | :49:48. | :49:52. | |
chances. And we have said throughout this campaign that it is not a | :49:53. | :49:56. | |
referendum about David Cameron. Some people are pressing unhappiness with | :49:57. | :50:01. | |
the government as well as issues in Europe, but it is early days. Who | :50:02. | :50:04. | |
knows where we will end up? It suggests that the Labour Remain | :50:05. | :50:15. | |
line hasn't worked well with Labour voters in the north-east. As you | :50:16. | :50:20. | |
say, we've got results from some parts of the north-east and its | :50:21. | :50:25. | |
early. Who knows whether the goals are right, but they all indicate | :50:26. | :50:30. | |
that Labour voters will vote perhaps by a substantial margin for us to | :50:31. | :50:34. | |
remain in the European Union, while Conservative voters will vote for us | :50:35. | :50:38. | |
to leave. I think we have to remember the context. But, look, of | :50:39. | :50:43. | |
course there are lessons, whatever the result, to be learned by the | :50:44. | :50:48. | |
Labour Party, but not just on the issue of immigration, a whole wider | :50:49. | :50:52. | |
set of things for Labour, but also for the government, about what | :50:53. | :50:55. | |
people are saying about the state of the country, their unhappiness with | :50:56. | :51:00. | |
some of the things happening in the country, a sense of pain and anger | :51:01. | :51:04. | |
that is out there, some of which is being expressed in this referendum. | :51:05. | :51:10. | |
I wonder what you make of Jeremy Corbyn's remarks last Sunday, that | :51:11. | :51:15. | |
there should be no top cap on immigration. He appeared to play | :51:16. | :51:19. | |
well with Labour in parts of the north-east, but to think that was a | :51:20. | :51:25. | |
mistake? I think you can't say it is about a single remark. I think | :51:26. | :51:30. | |
Jeremy's centre of gravity on Europe, to have scepticism about | :51:31. | :51:35. | |
some parts of the European project and how it has been executed, but | :51:36. | :51:39. | |
overall to be four Remain, I think that is where a lot of people are. I | :51:40. | :51:44. | |
think there are a deep set of issues that have been building for a long | :51:45. | :51:49. | |
time, and a lot of this is about people thinking, we are unhappy | :51:50. | :51:52. | |
about the state of the country and the direction it is going in and, | :51:53. | :51:55. | |
inevitably, a referendum becomes about the specific issue, but also | :51:56. | :52:02. | |
about a much wider set of things. If Doncaster votes to leave, what will | :52:03. | :52:09. | |
that tell you? That there is a lot of listening and work that needs to | :52:10. | :52:13. | |
be done, that it will be an expression, as I say, of people's | :52:14. | :52:19. | |
concerns. Lots of people feel it is an unequal, divided country and they | :52:20. | :52:23. | |
are angry about it. I happen to agree with them, but I don't think | :52:24. | :52:29. | |
the answer is to vote Leave. Of course for the Labour Party, but for | :52:30. | :52:33. | |
all of politics, in particular the government, if this is a Remain | :52:34. | :52:38. | |
vote, I really hope that David Cameron recognises the anger, | :52:39. | :52:41. | |
division and pain there is in lots of parts of the country but what is | :52:42. | :52:46. | |
happening, and I hope he tries to address that, because inequality and | :52:47. | :52:50. | |
division is a big part of this result, whichever way it goes. What | :52:51. | :52:55. | |
about the tone of the campaign? People we spoke to said they were | :52:56. | :53:02. | |
very much going towards Remain until they heard the bullying, for | :53:03. | :53:05. | |
example, the Chancellor and his threats of vinyl verity -- of an | :53:06. | :53:12. | |
austerity budget. Do you wish those parts of the campaign shouldn't have | :53:13. | :53:17. | |
been run the way they work? Inevitably, when you are arguing for | :53:18. | :53:23. | |
the status quo, as the Remain side were, at least that part of the | :53:24. | :53:27. | |
campaign led by the Conservatives, inevitably there and up being | :53:28. | :53:30. | |
warnings about leaving, and I think a lot of those were right. I think, | :53:31. | :53:36. | |
you know, a positive message, more of a positive message was always | :53:37. | :53:40. | |
something the Labour Party was trying to get across, not just | :53:41. | :53:43. | |
remaining in the EU but also reforming it in various ways, but I | :53:44. | :53:47. | |
think it's too easy to criticise campaigns. There is deep and out | :53:48. | :53:52. | |
there and some of that is being expressed in how people are voting. | :53:53. | :53:58. | |
The Isles of Scilly, the result has been declared. Not very many votes | :53:59. | :54:06. | |
here, but nevertheless, 621, 803, the smallest counting area. 44% | :54:07. | :54:16. | |
Leave, 56% Remain. We are waiting for Swindon, which I think we may | :54:17. | :54:22. | |
get. I stress that these are not constituencies, we are just | :54:23. | :54:26. | |
gradually accumulating numbers. Diane James, if it goes the way that | :54:27. | :54:32. | |
it may go, towards a narrow victory to Leave, what would the next step | :54:33. | :54:37. | |
speed, in your view? I would hope that David Cameron, given that he | :54:38. | :54:41. | |
has had this letter from a number of MPs, will continue as Prime | :54:42. | :54:46. | |
Minister. That might surprise some people to hear me say that, but he | :54:47. | :54:50. | |
has at least undertaken this referendum, some from the country | :54:51. | :54:54. | |
has wanted for a long time. He will have heard, he will have received | :54:55. | :54:58. | |
the signal from the population that we want to leave the EU, and I hope | :54:59. | :55:03. | |
he would then form a top team, possibly split into two, but part of | :55:04. | :55:08. | |
the team going to Brussels, starting the negotiations that are sorely | :55:09. | :55:12. | |
needed, and the other part back in the UK handling the civil service | :55:13. | :55:18. | |
and all those aspects. He has said that, if it is Brexit, he will | :55:19. | :55:23. | |
trigger the two-year period, chapter 15, article 50, which only he can | :55:24. | :55:29. | |
trigger. That gives you two years. Are you suggesting he shouldn't do | :55:30. | :55:36. | |
that yet? He has two options, he could straightforwardly repeal the | :55:37. | :55:40. | |
European Union at, and my understanding, from some of the | :55:41. | :55:43. | |
Conservative MPs I have shared the stage with at events, their view is | :55:44. | :55:49. | |
that that was the preference, but that article 50 is a very clear | :55:50. | :55:54. | |
message to Brussels and to President Juncker that we are serious, and of | :55:55. | :55:58. | |
course that kick-starts the negotiation process. At least with | :55:59. | :56:03. | |
invoking article 50, we know where we stand, in terms of kick-starting | :56:04. | :56:07. | |
the process, giving two years and a certain amount of reasonableness, | :56:08. | :56:15. | |
maybe six months. We are waiting for Swindon to come in and I may | :56:16. | :56:19. | |
interrupt you. It seems there are a number of options, if it were to go | :56:20. | :56:25. | |
to Leave. The only legal and constitutional option is laid down | :56:26. | :56:30. | |
by the EU, the article 50 procedure is that David Cameron tells the | :56:31. | :56:33. | |
European council of the British voters' decision. They are meeting | :56:34. | :56:39. | |
next week. Some people say that should be deployed -- delayed, but | :56:40. | :56:44. | |
he says he will do it as quickly as possible. There is a larger | :56:45. | :56:48. | |
question, if there is a vote to leave, and it is too early to | :56:49. | :56:51. | |
predict that, he will have been given instructions by the British | :56:52. | :56:54. | |
people to do something he doesn't want to do. Would he be the British | :56:55. | :56:59. | |
-- the best person to negotiate British exit? Accounting officer in | :57:00. | :57:04. | |
Swindon at the referendum held on 23rd of June 2016 under the European | :57:05. | :57:12. | |
Union Referendum Act 2015, having been authorised to do so by the | :57:13. | :57:17. | |
regional counting officer, I did notice that I have certified the | :57:18. | :57:20. | |
following. The total number of ballot papers counted was 113,060. | :57:21. | :57:29. | |
The number of votes cast in favour of remaining in of the EU was 51,000 | :57:30. | :57:37. | |
220. The number of votes cast in favour of leaving the EU was 61,745. | :57:38. | :57:45. | |
The number of ballot papers rejected was as follows, both answers voted | :57:46. | :57:53. | |
for, 33, writing or mark by which a person could be identified, five, | :57:54. | :57:59. | |
unmarked or void for uncertainty, 57, and the total number of ballot | :58:00. | :58:08. | |
papers rejected was 95. Thank you. Swindon, you can read that on the | :58:09. | :58:17. | |
screen. The Leave side 55%, 45% to Remain. Jeremy, I think that is | :58:18. | :58:22. | |
pretty much in line with what you were expecting for Swindon, what you | :58:23. | :58:27. | |
and John Curtice were expecting from Swindon. Do you want to take us | :58:28. | :58:33. | |
through when you have got to? Let's compare it to Sunderland. When | :58:34. | :58:36. | |
Sunderland and Newcastle came in, the shock of this in the studio, | :58:37. | :58:42. | |
because Leave had done so much more and so dramatically better than our | :58:43. | :58:47. | |
index suggested or our knowledge of those counting areas suggested, so | :58:48. | :58:50. | |
we are now seeing it stabilised a little more. We are in for a long | :58:51. | :58:56. | |
night, no question. Let me show you Sunderland. Let's remind ourselves | :58:57. | :58:59. | |
of where that is. The midway point on our index is where you'd expect | :59:00. | :59:05. | |
it to be, a 50-50 result, if the result across the nation is 50-50. | :59:06. | :59:11. | |
Here, we see Sunderland, into Leave territory but not by much. Let's | :59:12. | :59:14. | |
remind ourselves of the Sunderland result and how dramatic it was to | :59:15. | :59:20. | |
Leave. More than 20% gap in Sunderland. That is a better | :59:21. | :59:25. | |
performance to Leave than we might have expected in Sunderland. But now | :59:26. | :59:31. | |
we have Swindon. Let's have a look. If you look at the algorithms that | :59:32. | :59:36. | |
we use, that we were talking about earlier, our analysis of the | :59:37. | :59:40. | |
counting areas based on how many pensioners, who tend to vote Out, | :59:41. | :59:47. | |
and graduates, who tend to vote In, ethnic minority voters, Ukip voters | :59:48. | :59:53. | |
etc. We ended up with Swindon as more Eurosceptic Lee inclined than | :59:54. | :59:58. | |
Sunderland. So it looked to us like Swindon would vote even more to | :59:59. | :00:03. | |
Leave, but that result has come in like this, and the margin is much | :00:04. | :00:11. | |
closer. That is what we would have expected, based on Swindon's | :00:12. | :00:15. | |
position on the index, so Sunderland and Newcastle might outliers. Maybe | :00:16. | :00:21. | |
there is something going on with the vote in the north of England. It's | :00:22. | :00:25. | |
all getting very interesting on our board, and there is no way of even | :00:26. | :00:30. | |
starting to call it. We have a result from Broxbourne, the first | :00:31. | :00:35. | |
home counties of results, Hertfordshire. Ukip had some success | :00:36. | :00:47. | |
in the local elections. That 66% to Leave and 34% to Remain. We are | :00:48. | :00:54. | |
joined now by nick Robinson, who has suddenly turned up. What are you | :00:55. | :00:59. | |
doing tonight? You are going from north to south through the night, is | :01:00. | :01:06. | |
that right? We started in Edinburgh, David, at the polling station there | :01:07. | :01:11. | |
in the middle of the evening. We've been to Newcastle, here in | :01:12. | :01:15. | |
Sunderland, on my way to lead any second, then Peterborough, trying to | :01:16. | :01:20. | |
see and to paint a picture of a divided nation, because what is so | :01:21. | :01:25. | |
striking tonight is a divided nation, divided by nations | :01:26. | :01:28. | |
themselves, Scotland against England, divided by region, class, | :01:29. | :01:34. | |
educational background. I think these results suggest, as Jeremy was | :01:35. | :01:37. | |
just saying, that that is what is going on. In Sunderland, and this | :01:38. | :01:44. | |
may help explain a bit about the difference between what is happening | :01:45. | :01:49. | |
in the north-east and the south, I was hearing from people on the Leave | :01:50. | :01:53. | |
and Remain campaigns that there are people in this town you haven't | :01:54. | :01:59. | |
voted in this city since 1983, haven't voted since the days of | :02:00. | :02:03. | |
Margaret Thatcher, who came out, as they put it, people on both sides, | :02:04. | :02:06. | |
to kick the establishment, people who left their houses for the first | :02:07. | :02:12. | |
time to vote. They wanted to kick not just Brussels but David Cameron | :02:13. | :02:17. | |
on the establishment, the bankers, they pretty much wanted to kick | :02:18. | :02:21. | |
anybody they could, and they below -- they believed that voting Leave | :02:22. | :02:26. | |
was the way to do that. What is your view of the way it has gone so far? | :02:27. | :02:33. | |
What intrigues me is whether this becomes a pattern or whether what | :02:34. | :02:37. | |
we're actually seeing is the mounting up of votes in working | :02:38. | :02:41. | |
class where there is a result against the establishment, to Leave, | :02:42. | :02:48. | |
but also a mounting up of votes to Remain in metropolitan areas with a | :02:49. | :02:52. | |
younger demographic. It is much too early to tell whether that | :02:53. | :02:57. | |
Sunderland result, and that in Newcastle, is giving us a national | :02:58. | :03:01. | |
picture or merely suggesting that this great gulf between voters with | :03:02. | :03:05. | |
even greater than we realised. I was hearing from a series of senior | :03:06. | :03:09. | |
Labour figures that, in recent days, votes had hardened up amongst what | :03:10. | :03:17. | |
you might patronisingly call Guardian readers, metropolitan | :03:18. | :03:20. | |
people, public sector, hardening up for Remain. We may not see that | :03:21. | :03:26. | |
until we see the vote in most urban areas but, when you are seeing votes | :03:27. | :03:32. | |
in the smaller towns, often described by psephologists as the | :03:33. | :03:36. | |
left behind, people with high working-class populations, what you | :03:37. | :03:42. | |
are seeing there is a mounting up of votes to Leave, because they want to | :03:43. | :03:46. | |
kick someone and the opportunity to do that was devoted against the | :03:47. | :03:50. | |
establishment will stop where are you going to pop up next? Leeds is | :03:51. | :03:57. | |
my next stop. Look forward to seeing you. Couple of hours from now. There | :03:58. | :04:03. | |
is something interesting about the London turnout. There was terrible | :04:04. | :04:10. | |
weather in London today, the roads were flooded, the trains were not | :04:11. | :04:14. | |
working, the Underground wasn't working, there was all hell let | :04:15. | :04:18. | |
loose, and, John, you think there has been an effect on London, which | :04:19. | :04:23. | |
was expected to be heavily Remain, but it has had an effect on the | :04:24. | :04:29. | |
vote. Perhaps. Seven or eight boroughs have told us their level of | :04:30. | :04:33. | |
turnout. Given what was going on in the rest of the country, we would | :04:34. | :04:38. | |
have expected about 2-3 point higher turnout in these boroughs than has | :04:39. | :04:44. | |
been reported. Maybe it is the weather, maybe not, but whatever is | :04:45. | :04:47. | |
because, given that London was expected to be relatively strongly | :04:48. | :04:53. | |
for Remain, if this is correct, it is another bit of bad news for the | :04:54. | :04:57. | |
Remain side, as far as turnout is concerned. The numbers may not be | :04:58. | :05:01. | |
working quite as much in its direction this was hoped. The truth | :05:02. | :05:06. | |
is there has not been any good news for them. That is a slight | :05:07. | :05:12. | |
exaggeration. In Orkney and Clackmannanshire, the result was | :05:13. | :05:16. | |
pretty much in line with what we were expecting. It wasn't far off | :05:17. | :05:19. | |
and Broxbourne. There have been cases where the outcome was much as | :05:20. | :05:25. | |
we expected. Newcastle and Sunderland stand out. What the | :05:26. | :05:30. | |
Remain side might worry about is the only place which has come in better | :05:31. | :05:34. | |
for them than was expected if the Isles of Scilly, the smallest of all | :05:35. | :05:38. | |
the counting units we have got tonight. Not to forget Gibraltan! | :05:39. | :05:47. | |
We are here with Tim Montgomerie and Alastair Campbell. Tim, what are | :05:48. | :05:54. | |
your team captains saying after results in Sunderland and Swindon? | :05:55. | :05:58. | |
Those results were looking positive for Leave, but the most interesting | :05:59. | :06:02. | |
thing is the turnout. As John Curtice was explaining, in London, | :06:03. | :06:07. | |
Northern Ireland and Scotland, you are seeing lower turnouts, whereas | :06:08. | :06:11. | |
in the Leave areas, like places we have seen in the north-east, turnout | :06:12. | :06:18. | |
is much greater. It seems that as a lot of people expected, those that | :06:19. | :06:22. | |
want to leave the European Union have always been more enthusiastic. | :06:23. | :06:25. | |
And despite the weather, they have turned out. If this is true, and we | :06:26. | :06:30. | |
should still be cautious, this could be a much better night for Leave | :06:31. | :06:35. | |
than many of us were expecting. Kate Howey has said in the last few | :06:36. | :06:39. | |
moments that Labour could end up losing thousands of voters over | :06:40. | :06:46. | |
issues like immigration. I wonder if the EU has become a proxy for a lot | :06:47. | :06:51. | |
of things that are broken in people'slives. This is the danger | :06:52. | :06:56. | |
with referendums. I don't dig this referendum has just been about | :06:57. | :07:00. | |
Europe. I think a lot of the people who have been turning against in | :07:01. | :07:05. | |
this debate, particularly in traditionally Labour areas, are | :07:06. | :07:08. | |
people who feel that the financial crisis happened and the people who | :07:09. | :07:12. | |
caused it got away with it. They feel there is too much division, too | :07:13. | :07:16. | |
much inequality, that all they have had from this government is | :07:17. | :07:21. | |
austerity. They are basically saying, two fingers to the lot of | :07:22. | :07:25. | |
you. But Labour has known this for years. They saw the vote | :07:26. | :07:28. | |
disappearing in the north-east to Ukip. I also think the Labour Party | :07:29. | :07:35. | |
has to understand that we cannot just keep banging the same old | :07:36. | :07:39. | |
messages that have come out through this campaign. I think the Labour | :07:40. | :07:47. | |
Party has to be careful about this. I said two things to you earlier | :07:48. | :07:52. | |
stop one is that it is not over. Secondly, I am worried about this | :07:53. | :07:56. | |
just becoming about the Tory party. There is a danger here for Labour as | :07:57. | :08:01. | |
well. We have to face up to the fact that large parts of the country are | :08:02. | :08:05. | |
turning away from both of the main parties. This referendum has | :08:06. | :08:10. | |
unleashed all sorts of stuff. I always thought it was a bad idea to | :08:11. | :08:14. | |
have it. That sounds arrogant, don't let the people decide. It doesn't | :08:15. | :08:23. | |
sound arrogant, it is arrogant. I have met so many people in the last | :08:24. | :08:29. | |
few weeks saying, you see them in agony, having to make decisions that | :08:30. | :08:36. | |
politicians should be elected and then lead. We are in this position | :08:37. | :08:41. | |
because of a lack of leadership. Every single leader except one has | :08:42. | :08:48. | |
been on the Remain site. And I think Jeremy Corbyn gave a gift to the | :08:49. | :08:52. | |
Leave campaign on Sunday when he said the was no upper limit on | :08:53. | :08:56. | |
immigration from the European Union. Alastair Campbell is right about the | :08:57. | :09:01. | |
austerity factor. There is a global revolt against the existing | :09:02. | :09:06. | |
capitalist system, but Labour have underestimated how concerned the | :09:07. | :09:09. | |
working class vote is about the lack of control over immigration. We have | :09:10. | :09:15. | |
looked at the graph of the pound literally falling off a cliff. Not | :09:16. | :09:23. | |
literally! People look at that and think this is just markets making | :09:24. | :09:30. | |
money. The bookies and the markets have been telling us what will | :09:31. | :09:36. | |
happen. The economic argument did get through, but a lot of these | :09:37. | :09:39. | |
people heard everybody saying we were going to lose the economic | :09:40. | :09:43. | |
success we have got, but they are not feeling that economic success | :09:44. | :09:51. | |
now. There was the Queen's famous question to the economists, why | :09:52. | :09:54. | |
didn't you see the crash happened? The establishment were wrong about | :09:55. | :09:58. | |
the Iraq war, wrong about the regulation of Wall Street. So | :09:59. | :10:03. | |
Michael Gove was right to say the British public to not believe the | :10:04. | :10:07. | |
experts. We have a problem at the moment. The established authorities | :10:08. | :10:12. | |
are not trusted by at least half the country. Angela, you were listening | :10:13. | :10:17. | |
to what was being said and we have John McDonnell talking about | :10:18. | :10:22. | |
Sunderland, that people are cheesed off and migration is a big issue. | :10:23. | :10:26. | |
Has Labour lost touch with its core voters? Clearly, there are people | :10:27. | :10:31. | |
for whom life is really tough. They are your people. Yes, and life has | :10:32. | :10:38. | |
been made tougher by the decisions that the Conservative government has | :10:39. | :10:45. | |
made, particularly the huge cuts that have been focused unfairly on | :10:46. | :10:50. | |
the areas that are least able to cope. Our country is divided now and | :10:51. | :10:54. | |
we don't have a government that seems to care about the future | :10:55. | :11:02. | |
prospects for communities like that. So why hasn't Jeremy Corbyn and Mr | :11:03. | :11:07. | |
MacDonald been able to get the vote out for Vote Leave? Well, a lot of | :11:08. | :11:14. | |
that vote wanted to kick the government. They like what the | :11:15. | :11:20. | |
government were doing. They want to get rid of the Prime Minister. And I | :11:21. | :11:25. | |
saw this as a way of doing it. We have had discussions all the way | :11:26. | :11:31. | |
through this campaign about whether kicking the government in this way | :11:32. | :11:34. | |
was the right thing to do, because it is more likely to cause a | :11:35. | :11:37. | |
recession. We have seen what is happening with the pound, and they | :11:38. | :11:43. | |
will be the first to suffer. So you failed with your argument. We have | :11:44. | :11:48. | |
not been able to get through to all of our supporters, but you will find | :11:49. | :11:54. | |
that there was a majority of Labour supporters that have voted to | :11:55. | :11:58. | |
Remain. Our vote is less split on the Tory vote. And in fact, the | :11:59. | :12:03. | |
Conservative government is split top to bottom. But it may be a critical | :12:04. | :12:13. | |
part of the Labour vote that did not come out for Remain. We don't know | :12:14. | :12:20. | |
what the result will be yet. We always knew this was going to be a | :12:21. | :12:25. | |
knife edge referendum. We are at a very early stage of the result. When | :12:26. | :12:36. | |
one of your MPs, admittedly unnamed, says that the EU issue simply shone | :12:37. | :12:41. | |
a light on how out of touch Jeremy Corbyn and John McDonnell are with | :12:42. | :12:45. | |
traditional voters out of London, do you think he or she has sent on her | :12:46. | :12:51. | |
side or is that nonsense? I think there is a divide between those that | :12:52. | :12:57. | |
live in cities and those that live in the industrialised areas of the | :12:58. | :13:01. | |
north. We have a Chancellor that thinks that having a press release | :13:02. | :13:04. | |
about the Northern powerhouse is good enough. It is not good enough. | :13:05. | :13:13. | |
We have to make certain that our government takes account of the | :13:14. | :13:16. | |
proper interests and looks after people up and down the country. I | :13:17. | :13:21. | |
have a feeling you are not answering the question I asked. I have not | :13:22. | :13:27. | |
come on this programme to have a go at my own leader. I think we have a | :13:28. | :13:30. | |
government that is split down the middle. They have had to issue a | :13:31. | :13:37. | |
Save Dave letter tonight and a third of the Brexiteers in the Tory party | :13:38. | :13:43. | |
haven't signed it. No need for a safe Jeremy Corbyn at a? We need to | :13:44. | :13:48. | |
wait to see what happens in this referendum to see if we still have a | :13:49. | :13:53. | |
functioning government. We have to result from Kettering, voting to | :13:54. | :13:55. | |
Leave. That was the expected result for | :13:56. | :14:16. | |
Kettering in the East Midlands. We now have a Leave lead of 18,700 78. | :14:17. | :14:23. | |
Let's join Clive Myrie. What have you got from Basildon? We are | :14:24. | :14:30. | |
expecting the final result here in the next 20 minutes. I was talking | :14:31. | :14:35. | |
to the leader of the borough council here, who is from the Conservative | :14:36. | :14:39. | |
Party, and they were looking pretty forlorn. It looks like a resounding | :14:40. | :14:47. | |
win for the Leave campaign. We did expect that. The polls leading up to | :14:48. | :14:51. | |
the referendum suggested that it could be anything from 70 to 80%. | :14:52. | :15:00. | |
The feeling seems to be around 70%. From talking to the Ukip members of | :15:01. | :15:06. | |
the council here and some of the Vote Leave activists, they are | :15:07. | :15:10. | |
saying that when they have been canvassing they have heard people | :15:11. | :15:14. | |
talking about immigration. They have been about sovereignty. They have | :15:15. | :15:20. | |
also talked about this being a protest vote, an attempt to give the | :15:21. | :15:24. | |
political elite is a kick, the idea that halted as usual has gone sour | :15:25. | :15:30. | |
for them. For the working class white people in this area who have | :15:31. | :15:33. | |
seen their jobs disappear, have certain issues, Ukip and the Vote | :15:34. | :15:39. | |
Leave campaign say they have been able to tap into that resentment and | :15:40. | :15:43. | |
that has been borne out in the result this evening. In about 20 | :15:44. | :15:50. | |
minutes, we will get the official count, but it is looking like 70% | :15:51. | :15:55. | |
for Leave. Let's look at the results we have had in. Jeremy. Here we are | :15:56. | :16:04. | |
with our index. 382 counting areas. We have ordered them based on our | :16:05. | :16:09. | |
analysis from the most inclined to Leave, to the most inclined to | :16:10. | :16:15. | |
Remain. We have already had the surprises from Newcastle and | :16:16. | :16:17. | |
Sunderland, which did not fit in with our index. But over time, it | :16:18. | :16:24. | |
may even out. Let's look first at Kettering. It is quite a way towards | :16:25. | :16:34. | |
Leave. You would expect a substantial vote for Leave in | :16:35. | :16:39. | |
Kettering. And here is the actual result. Leave's vote was a tiny bit | :16:40. | :16:49. | |
stronger in Kettering that we might have expected, based on its position | :16:50. | :16:55. | |
on our index, but nothing like the surprise of the strength of the | :16:56. | :16:58. | |
Leave vote in Newcastle and Sunderland. Still a substantial | :16:59. | :17:03. | |
margin for Leave in Kettering. If we go to Broxbourne, you can see the | :17:04. | :17:14. | |
flashing blue, meaning Leave have taken it, in parliamentary language. | :17:15. | :17:28. | |
Let's see by how much. It looks very Eurosceptic. It is in the top 15 | :17:29. | :17:35. | |
most inclined to Leave. What has actually happened? We have a 32% | :17:36. | :17:48. | |
gap. Again, that is a bit more for Leave than we were expecting based | :17:49. | :17:52. | |
on our own analysis, but not a shock. The key thing is that unlike | :17:53. | :18:01. | |
a Westminster election where you have all those constituencies that | :18:02. | :18:05. | |
are roughly the same size in terms of numbers of voters, here, | :18:06. | :18:08. | |
constituencies have vastly different sizes. This is our proportional map. | :18:09. | :18:19. | |
I will bring up the stalks in the floor. The important thing is the | :18:20. | :18:29. | |
height of the stalks. In Orkney, you have a short stalk because there are | :18:30. | :18:34. | |
not many voters. These are the Newcastle and Sunderland results, | :18:35. | :18:37. | |
and you can see how many thousands were involved. When we hear from | :18:38. | :18:44. | |
Birmingham at three or four in the morning, 700,000 eligible voters, | :18:45. | :18:47. | |
that will be the biggest stalk on the map. It is worth remembering | :18:48. | :18:51. | |
that when accounting area has a lot of voters in it, it really packs a | :18:52. | :18:59. | |
punch. We have a result in from the Shetland Islands. 5300 Leave, 6900 | :19:00. | :19:11. | |
Remain. Small numbers here. Slightly less four Remain than we had | :19:12. | :19:15. | |
anticipated. And West Dunbartonshire. This is slightly | :19:16. | :19:29. | |
better for Remain. I am joined now by Alex Salmond, the Scottish | :19:30. | :19:32. | |
National Party MP for Gordon in the House of Commons, formerly the | :19:33. | :19:36. | |
leader, David Davis, former Shadow Home Secretary, who has been | :19:37. | :19:37. | |
fighting for Leave. Alex Salmond, what do you make of | :19:38. | :19:50. | |
it? It's going to be nip and tuck. I'm astonished about Shetland, | :19:51. | :19:54. | |
because that is one of only two areas in Scotland, back in 1975, | :19:55. | :19:58. | |
which voted two to one not come out of the EU. The fact that it has | :19:59. | :20:04. | |
voted pretty decisively to remain is a very good result, as indeed the | :20:05. | :20:08. | |
other results from Scotland have been. Can I add a corrective. This | :20:09. | :20:12. | |
talk about a low turnout in Scotland. Clackmannanshire... I | :20:13. | :20:18. | |
think we set slightly lower than expected. Clackmannanshire, 67.5%. | :20:19. | :20:29. | |
Sunderland, a very good result for Leave in England, 65%. It doesn't | :20:30. | :20:34. | |
stand up to examination. What we are talking about is general election | :20:35. | :20:38. | |
turnout and, in Sunderland comparing the general election turnout with | :20:39. | :20:42. | |
this turnout, there is a spectacular increase. It isn't like with like. | :20:43. | :20:49. | |
Is still a very strong turnout in Scotland and a strong vote for | :20:50. | :20:54. | |
Leave, but this is going to go down to the wire. The constitutional | :20:55. | :20:58. | |
implications are fascinating. I will come to that. We heard at the | :20:59. | :21:02. | |
beginning of this that Nigel Farage said his friends in the City said | :21:03. | :21:08. | |
the game was up, and now he says he has changed his mind. What is your | :21:09. | :21:13. | |
view? Nigel does change his mind from time to time. This is less | :21:14. | :21:18. | |
scientific than a normal general election, as I'm sure you have | :21:19. | :21:24. | |
explained. It's a matter of counting votes. Even the comparisons are | :21:25. | :21:30. | |
judgments. Oh, yes. They are not massively off but they are not | :21:31. | :21:35. | |
entirely reliable either. What I can see happening, the beginnings of it, | :21:36. | :21:39. | |
is that Scotland is pretty much voting as one would expect, Northern | :21:40. | :21:44. | |
Ireland broadly as we would expect on the north of England, the | :21:45. | :21:47. | |
industrial areas of England, erstwhile Labour voting | :21:48. | :21:52. | |
working-class voters, they seem to need to be going heavily towards | :21:53. | :21:58. | |
Leave. It isn't a big fraction of the population, but nevertheless. | :21:59. | :22:01. | |
That is all to do with the fact they haven't had a increases for several | :22:02. | :22:04. | |
years and they blame immigration, that sort of thing. -- pay | :22:05. | :22:09. | |
increases. I agree with Alex that it will be nip and tuck. I think it is | :22:10. | :22:16. | |
odds-on to leave. If it is Leave, what is your view about David | :22:17. | :22:20. | |
Cameron and George Osborne, what should happen is to mock you didn't | :22:21. | :22:24. | |
sign that letter, asking for him to remain. I never signed letters, | :22:25. | :22:30. | |
positive or negative, not that sort of letter. If I sent a letter, it's | :22:31. | :22:36. | |
from me. As I sit on your programme, question try, it seems to me that, | :22:37. | :22:41. | |
so long as David does something sensible like trying to put somebody | :22:42. | :22:47. | |
in charge of the negotiations, then what the country is going to need is | :22:48. | :22:52. | |
stability at home. We are not going to be wanting to have a leadership | :22:53. | :22:55. | |
election in the middle of all that. In the next couple of years, and he | :22:56. | :23:00. | |
says he will stay for two or three years anyway, is pretty reasonable. | :23:01. | :23:04. | |
And George Osborne, would the kindest thing to do beta move him | :23:05. | :23:12. | |
on? That was said to be in George's interest. Just a helping hand. If it | :23:13. | :23:20. | |
does go this way, I mean, you've always said that, if England or the | :23:21. | :23:25. | |
rest of the UK voted to leave in Scotland voted to remain, it would | :23:26. | :23:30. | |
trigger another independence referendum in Scotland would want to | :23:31. | :23:34. | |
remain in the EU. Even if it was just that close, do you think that | :23:35. | :23:39. | |
would happen, if England, put it like that, started pulling out of | :23:40. | :23:47. | |
the EU? I do. There are two fascinating constitutional | :23:48. | :23:49. | |
possibilities. One, Scotland looks like it's going to vote solidly | :23:50. | :23:56. | |
Remain. If there was a Leave in England dragging us out, I am | :23:57. | :24:00. | |
certain that Nicola Sturgeon would implement the SNP manifesto. There | :24:01. | :24:04. | |
is another possibility, which is just emerging, that it's possible | :24:05. | :24:08. | |
that Scotland, Northern Ireland might tip the balance overall, | :24:09. | :24:13. | |
England having voted to leave another constitutional conundrum. At | :24:14. | :24:20. | |
the start of this process, the First Minister, Nicola Sturgeon, offered | :24:21. | :24:24. | |
David Cameron a suggestion that perhaps he should put a poor country | :24:25. | :24:28. | |
lock on this result, that all formations within the United Kingdom | :24:29. | :24:33. | |
should vote the same way. He said it was ridiculous and I suspect he is | :24:34. | :24:37. | |
now thinking perhaps it was as ridiculous as he thought. -- a four | :24:38. | :24:44. | |
country lock. We have got some more results, sized Tyneside. Leave. -- | :24:45. | :24:58. | |
South Tyneside. Tim Arndale joins us from Leeds. What is your feeling | :24:59. | :25:02. | |
about what is happening in Yorkshire? We haven't had any | :25:03. | :25:10. | |
results in the Yorkshire and Humber region so far, all we have had | :25:11. | :25:13. | |
turnout figures, which are very high, much higher in most areas than | :25:14. | :25:17. | |
the last general election, but already the Vote Leave campaign here | :25:18. | :25:21. | |
leaves they are well ahead in this region. One senior source said a | :25:22. | :25:27. | |
month ago that they believe they have won Yorkshire by a country | :25:28. | :25:32. | |
mile. -- said a moment ago. They say they are voting -- picking up votes | :25:33. | :25:38. | |
to leave in solid working-class areas, where Labour has been the | :25:39. | :25:41. | |
dominant party for many years. The feeling on the ground is that the | :25:42. | :25:46. | |
Labour Remain message just hasn't been hitting home. Thank you very | :25:47. | :25:54. | |
much. We are just talking about betting. You are a betting man. Did | :25:55. | :26:01. | |
you bet? The market that I trust most of all isn't the brain of | :26:02. | :26:09. | |
first-class psychologists like John Curtice but the exchange betting | :26:10. | :26:13. | |
market, people who have exchanged ?32 million of real money, and on | :26:14. | :26:21. | |
that, Leave has come in from 14-1 to about 7-4 in the last two hours but | :26:22. | :26:25. | |
it is still staying as the favourite. So David, if you believe | :26:26. | :26:32. | |
it is going to be Leave, he can now finance his leadership campaign for | :26:33. | :26:36. | |
the Conservative Party. Are you still putting money on? I never bet | :26:37. | :26:43. | |
on things that I set my heart on, does it cloud your judgment. I think | :26:44. | :26:48. | |
the horses are much more reliable. You can set your heart on a Balls, | :26:49. | :26:51. | |
surely? Let's get back to serious business. -- on a horse. I put 200 | :26:52. | :26:59. | |
on this morning, but mainly because I was irritated by my colleagues in | :27:00. | :27:03. | |
the Leave campaign. I am hopeless at it. What process would you imagine | :27:04. | :27:11. | |
following in the next few days, if it happens, a Leave vote? First, the | :27:12. | :27:19. | |
Prime Minister has to decide who will take control, what team he | :27:20. | :27:22. | |
points. They will have to do consultation. It will be quite a lot | :27:23. | :27:28. | |
of time before either they trigger article 50 and start the process, | :27:29. | :27:32. | |
the process of negotiation, they will have to be a lot of | :27:33. | :27:36. | |
notification, and that was not in the next few days. There are all | :27:37. | :27:42. | |
sorts of things you can do, you can start -- took until the cows come | :27:43. | :27:49. | |
home. He would be an wise to trigger it straightaway because there is a | :27:50. | :27:53. | |
lot of preparation. The Leave campaign talking about the various | :27:54. | :27:55. | |
things that might happen, there isn't a unanimity of views about how | :27:56. | :28:00. | |
to play this. There are a variety addict will take some time. It isn't | :28:01. | :28:06. | |
a leadership campaign. -- a variety of opinions and it will take some | :28:07. | :28:12. | |
time. If the Prime Minister loses this, I don't see how he can survive | :28:13. | :28:16. | |
as Prime Minister. I speak from personal experience. If you state | :28:17. | :28:21. | |
your career on a referendum and the people vote against you, it is time | :28:22. | :28:26. | |
to go. Talk about lame ducks. This would be a duck with no legs and no | :28:27. | :28:34. | |
stability whatsoever. Alex, your referendum was existential to your | :28:35. | :28:38. | |
party, what it is all about. This is not. It is a promised David Cameron | :28:39. | :28:42. | |
made, to give the British people dare say... And he has conducted a | :28:43. | :28:51. | |
campaign of intimidation and bullying and half his cabinet say | :28:52. | :28:55. | |
they don't believe a word he says that he will continue? Fat chance. | :28:56. | :29:00. | |
One reason people are saying that people are voting to leave is | :29:01. | :29:03. | |
because they have had enough of politicians. We are going to a club | :29:04. | :29:07. | |
in Worcester and going back to a different world. -- a club. This is | :29:08. | :29:15. | |
a club that takes its politics seriously. They are having an | :29:16. | :29:21. | |
all-night party, taking in the results with a view points. Let's | :29:22. | :29:25. | |
have a word with a regular? How are you voting? Remain. How do you think | :29:26. | :29:34. | |
it is going? It's too close to call. Recent result was lifted. We've got | :29:35. | :29:42. | |
to wait for it to pan out. -- the Sunderland result was significant. | :29:43. | :29:47. | |
How have you found the campaign? Disappointing. A positive case for | :29:48. | :29:55. | |
Europe hasn't been made. It's been negative. I think it's been a | :29:56. | :30:02. | |
disappointment overall. This is the part of the country that will | :30:03. | :30:06. | |
apparently vote the most evenly, 50-50 in and out. I have to say, | :30:07. | :30:12. | |
quite hard to find people here voting to leave. There are plenty of | :30:13. | :30:17. | |
people here who voted In. Give us a flavour of how you are finding it. | :30:18. | :30:21. | |
It's quite hard to tell at the moment. Still incredibly early. And | :30:22. | :30:34. | |
are you all voting In? You are a voter to Leave? How are you feeling? | :30:35. | :30:41. | |
It's still early days. I feel like... There are still like 330 | :30:42. | :30:56. | |
undeclared. Confidence from the Leave side, was that? Absolutely. | :30:57. | :31:05. | |
We've got our fingers crossed. I think it's likely we will lose, what | :31:06. | :31:09. | |
I think a close result will be good for Britain. It means we have a good | :31:10. | :31:14. | |
chance of enacting reform. If there is a massive Remain victory, it | :31:15. | :31:20. | |
means that we have a lots of discontent. Do you worry about that | :31:21. | :31:30. | |
discontent in the future? No. Any discontent will manifest itself in | :31:31. | :31:33. | |
the need for more reform in the EU. OK. Thank you. They have taken it | :31:34. | :31:39. | |
seriously, having debates in the run-up to the referendum. I think | :31:40. | :31:44. | |
the main question will be at what point people go home! Thank you very | :31:45. | :31:50. | |
much. I hope they stay up until 6am, with a bit of luck. Let's have the | :31:51. | :31:55. | |
result from Dundee, which has just come in. They vote to remain. All of | :31:56. | :32:03. | |
these votes count. We are treating them as though they were | :32:04. | :32:06. | |
constituencies, but they are not. What happens in Dundee and Plymouth | :32:07. | :32:11. | |
and Colchester, it's all the same thing. They all get added together. | :32:12. | :32:23. | |
And the Lagan Valley in Northern Ireland, a unionist area, they vote | :32:24. | :32:29. | |
to leave. The DUP were in favour of leaving. Leave are ahead by 15800 | :32:30. | :32:42. | |
and 72. We will soon get to a point where we can save the kind of figure | :32:43. | :32:45. | |
that either side has to get if it is to win. We will be able to have a | :32:46. | :32:52. | |
target. It is based on the turnout, adding all of the turnouts together, | :32:53. | :32:55. | |
and you can work out where the midpoint is. Subject to recounts. It | :32:56. | :33:04. | |
is just over 16.4 million, I am told. So what a long way to go, | :33:05. | :33:11. | |
because Leave are on just under half a million, and so are Remain. 16.4 | :33:12. | :33:16. | |
million, if you want to make a note, is the winning post. Let's get a | :33:17. | :33:22. | |
full round-up of the news. Here is Rita Chakravarty. | :33:23. | :33:25. | |
Initial results in Britain's referendum on the EU | :33:26. | :33:28. | |
show support for leaving is stronger than expected. | :33:29. | :33:30. | |
Counting is under way of tens of millions of votes and early | :33:31. | :33:33. | |
reports suggest turnout has been high. | :33:34. | :33:36. | |
Among the first counting centres to declare official results | :33:37. | :33:41. | |
was Sunderland, which voted to leave by a significant majority. | :33:42. | :33:48. | |
Newcastle and Gibraltar voted to remain. This report contains flash | :33:49. | :33:53. | |
photography. It was the moment polling stations | :33:54. | :34:01. | |
closed. The UK had given its verdict. And the first result | :34:02. | :34:09. | |
declared, Gibraltar, with a 96% vote in favour of remaining. Not long | :34:10. | :34:16. | |
after, Newcastle, with a narrow win the Remain. 65,404. A much smaller | :34:17. | :34:22. | |
wind than expected but, in Sunderland, a huge win through to | :34:23. | :34:36. | |
Leave, 61%. A sign that the results in Newcastle and Sunderland may not | :34:37. | :34:42. | |
be indicative of a wider pattern. At a Leave campaign party, the Ukip | :34:43. | :34:47. | |
leader remains defensive. We will win this war will stop we will get | :34:48. | :34:53. | |
our country back. We will get our independence back and we will get | :34:54. | :34:59. | |
our borders back. Thank you. It was a bruising campaign, and some say, | :35:00. | :35:07. | |
whether it is Leave or Remain, politicians need to do more to | :35:08. | :35:10. | |
listen to the country. Whatever the result, they will be lessons that | :35:11. | :35:14. | |
have to be lured by the Labour Party, not just on the issue of | :35:15. | :35:18. | |
immigration, a wider set of things, but also for the government about | :35:19. | :35:21. | |
what people are saying about the state of the country. It's looking | :35:22. | :35:26. | |
increasingly like turnout across the UK as a whole will be a little above | :35:27. | :35:31. | |
50% and, remember, every single vote count in this referendum. -- 70%. | :35:32. | :35:37. | |
Following the first results, the pound has fallen dramatically. | :35:38. | :35:39. | |
Initially, it rose on expectations that the UK would stay in the EU | :35:40. | :35:42. | |
When the New York Stock Exchange closed, | :35:43. | :35:45. | |
the pound was trading at just under $1.49. | :35:46. | :35:47. | |
It fell at one point to $1.43 but has since recovered slightly. | :35:48. | :35:53. | |
One currency analyst said traders "are very jittery". | :35:54. | :35:58. | |
A man has been jailed for life for plotting a beheading | :35:59. | :36:00. | |
on the streets of London, inspired by so-called | :36:01. | :36:03. | |
Islamic State, which could have targeted a poppy seller. | :36:04. | :36:05. | |
23-year-old Nadir Syed was arrested in November 2014, | :36:06. | :36:09. | |
One of the world's longest running civil wars, in Colombia, | :36:10. | :36:18. | |
has been brought to an end after more | :36:19. | :36:20. | |
The so-called FARC rebels have signed a deal to lay | :36:21. | :36:24. | |
down their arms following three years of negotiations. | :36:25. | :36:27. | |
More than 200,000 people were killed during the conflict. | :36:28. | :36:31. | |
President Obama has suffered a setback in his plan to spare | :36:32. | :36:34. | |
millions of people living illegally in the US from deportation. | :36:35. | :36:38. | |
The Supreme Court has blocked the reforms, | :36:39. | :36:40. | |
with the opinion of eight justices split equally. | :36:41. | :36:43. | |
Mr Obama called the ruling heartbreaking. | :36:44. | :36:47. | |
Today's decision is frustrating to those who seek to grow our | :36:48. | :36:51. | |
economy and bring a rationality to our immigration system | :36:52. | :36:56. | |
and to allow people to come out of the shadows and lift this | :36:57. | :36:59. | |
serious flooding in parts of London and in south-east England. | :37:00. | :37:10. | |
Several commuter and Underground lines in the capital suffered | :37:11. | :37:16. | |
There were more problems this evening as commuters tried | :37:17. | :37:20. | |
The this is Broadcasting House in London, showing the state of play at | :37:21. | :37:44. | |
the moment. We have not had much in. We have only had 14 out of 382. The | :37:45. | :37:58. | |
Remain side are in yellow. And a slight modification to the figure I | :37:59. | :38:03. | |
gave earlier of 16.4 million needed to win. It is now estimated at 16.8 | :38:04. | :38:10. | |
million. We have to result in from the Western Isles. My grandson will | :38:11. | :38:19. | |
be complaining about my pronunciation as he speaks Gaelic. | :38:20. | :38:31. | |
Emily. A lot of people have been asking for international reaction to | :38:32. | :38:39. | |
the results so far. It is a lot to put on the Polish ambassador's | :38:40. | :38:42. | |
shoulders, but your sense of how the race is going so far? Let me just | :38:43. | :38:51. | |
say that I am just an observer. We will respect any decision that is | :38:52. | :38:57. | |
made by the UK. And Britain will always remain our friend and ally, | :38:58. | :39:02. | |
independently of the result. But of course we are nervous, because if | :39:03. | :39:07. | |
you speak about the national interests of Poland, we would like | :39:08. | :39:12. | |
to see the UK as an active member of the European Union, shaping | :39:13. | :39:16. | |
policies. They have been a big supporter of Poland, a non-euro | :39:17. | :39:20. | |
country. Do you feel your position will be weaker if the UK left? There | :39:21. | :39:26. | |
are several reasons. One is that we have more than 800,000 Poles living | :39:27. | :39:31. | |
here. And whatever happens, we would like to ensure their rights are | :39:32. | :39:38. | |
respected. Another reason is that the European Union needs unity and | :39:39. | :39:46. | |
strength, and in the United Kingdom, we have a huge country that can | :39:47. | :39:50. | |
influence our global policies in security and defence. This is about | :39:51. | :39:55. | |
global strength as a bloc. The third reason is that we are afraid of a | :39:56. | :40:00. | |
chain reaction in the European Union. We don't want this. We want | :40:01. | :40:05. | |
to be a coherent global block that could face new challenges. We have | :40:06. | :40:13. | |
had a wage refugees and war in Syria. Great Britain is one of your | :40:14. | :40:20. | |
largest trading partners. We are past the campaign and the threats | :40:21. | :40:25. | |
and the language. Do you actually think EU member countries would | :40:26. | :40:29. | |
choose not to trade in the same way now with Britain if it is a Leave | :40:30. | :40:38. | |
vote? I think there are three modes that could be adopted by Britain. | :40:39. | :40:45. | |
But do you think Britain will be punished? Do you think its value | :40:46. | :40:55. | |
will be understood? It is difficult to say. Article 50 of the Treaty of | :40:56. | :40:59. | |
the European Union just says that the negotiations will take two years | :41:00. | :41:05. | |
and then by unanimity, they can be extended. But if there is no | :41:06. | :41:08. | |
unanimity, they will not be extended. In two years, Britain can | :41:09. | :41:13. | |
achieve whatever it can achieve, and then we will be left with the result | :41:14. | :41:20. | |
of the negotiations. But for us, Britain is an important trading | :41:21. | :41:25. | |
partner. You have talked about the 800,000 Poles living in Britain. | :41:26. | :41:28. | |
What was your understanding of their sense of how the campaign went? More | :41:29. | :41:37. | |
than 80% of Poles here supported Remain, for obvious reasons. In the | :41:38. | :41:44. | |
campaign, we had a mixture of different sentiments. Some hope, but | :41:45. | :41:53. | |
but also some fear. Especially about immigration. This subject was not | :41:54. | :42:04. | |
treated with a lot of objectivity. We have another result, David. A | :42:05. | :42:09. | |
reminder of the latest results. We have had East Ayrshire in, voting to | :42:10. | :42:12. | |
Remain. We will see whether it is too soon | :42:13. | :42:38. | |
to get an overall picture. Let's go to Hartlepool and join Luke Walton. | :42:39. | :42:49. | |
Have you got the result? Are you the counting officer? I am not! But I | :42:50. | :42:57. | |
have some unconfirmed final results here, which are that Leave on | :42:58. | :43:03. | |
32,000, Remain on 14,000, which means Leave have taken more than 69% | :43:04. | :43:12. | |
of the vote. Those have not been confirmed, but I understand that | :43:13. | :43:16. | |
that is the final picture, which is more or less where Leave thought | :43:17. | :43:20. | |
they were heading. There was a head of expectation before today, so it | :43:21. | :43:25. | |
is a very good result for Leave. The context is that this is a Labour | :43:26. | :43:30. | |
stronghold, at it is also somewhere where Ukip have a good organisation. | :43:31. | :43:35. | |
They came a strong second in the general election, so not entirely | :43:36. | :43:38. | |
unexpected. The message I am getting from the Leave campaign is that this | :43:39. | :43:42. | |
was a vote against the establishment and the feeling that Hartlepool is a | :43:43. | :43:48. | |
forgotten town. There was a feeling both against Labour, but more | :43:49. | :43:52. | |
broadly against politicians. Interestingly against Labour, | :43:53. | :43:56. | |
because we have had Labour people here slightly dodging the question | :43:57. | :44:00. | |
of whether Labour was failing and might have helped to lose this | :44:01. | :44:03. | |
referendum by failing to get out some of its one third or so of | :44:04. | :44:08. | |
Labour supporters. That seems to confirm what you are saying. I have | :44:09. | :44:18. | |
heard from some Leave campaigners that they expected more Labour MPs | :44:19. | :44:23. | |
on the doorstep, not just here, but across the north-east, a sense that | :44:24. | :44:26. | |
in some areas, Labour were slightly sitting on their hands, perhaps | :44:27. | :44:31. | |
targeting more favourable areas with more middle-class people and | :44:32. | :44:34. | |
university students and now perhaps had given up on the most | :44:35. | :44:38. | |
disadvantaged areas. There is a wider question for Labour. After | :44:39. | :44:41. | |
all, they hold most of the seats in the north-east. Here in Hartlepool, | :44:42. | :44:50. | |
Ukip wants to build on this result and target this it and potentially | :44:51. | :44:55. | |
challenge Labour. There are wider political issues at play. There are | :44:56. | :45:00. | |
also economic issues, with all the problems Hartlepool and Teesside | :45:01. | :45:07. | |
have had. Let's talk to our political editor in the Midlands, | :45:08. | :45:13. | |
Patrick Burns, a familiar figure on election night. I don't think you | :45:14. | :45:18. | |
were there in 1975. I was around. I have described this as a twice in a | :45:19. | :45:23. | |
lifetime experience. Twice for you and for me. We have not had any | :45:24. | :45:30. | |
results yet from the Birmingham area. We haven't. It is rather slow | :45:31. | :45:36. | |
here because of the sheer size of it. There is an electorate of over | :45:37. | :45:44. | |
700,000 voters in Birmingham alone. That means we do tend to lag behind. | :45:45. | :45:49. | |
But we have been wondering whether we might see a divergence between | :45:50. | :45:56. | |
the areas around the Outer edge of the conurbation, like North | :45:57. | :46:00. | |
Warwickshire, well we had from earlier, which looks like a | :46:01. | :46:05. | |
resounding win for the Leave campaign, and other areas like | :46:06. | :46:10. | |
Cannock, Dudley, the Black Country, where Ukip have won seats on local | :46:11. | :46:19. | |
councils. Whereas, would Birmingham, has a more cosmopolitan city, with | :46:20. | :46:24. | |
this vast electrics, we saw Jeremy Vine's stalk that, so much taller | :46:25. | :46:29. | |
than the others, would that offset the Leave tendency in the big city? | :46:30. | :46:36. | |
That seems to be the indication. Early indications in Birmingham are | :46:37. | :46:45. | |
that Remain has 55 to 60% of the vote. That is cause for more | :46:46. | :46:51. | |
optimism for the Remain side that we were seeing earlier in the evening. | :46:52. | :46:58. | |
Another place to look out for, we heard Jeremy talking about the | :46:59. | :47:05. | |
algorithms. Apparently, Worcester is about as typical as it is possible | :47:06. | :47:11. | |
to be. So if we see a close result from Worcester, just down the road, | :47:12. | :47:19. | |
that could be an indication that we would have is very close overall | :47:20. | :47:28. | |
result for the UK. There are two issues here. There is one big local | :47:29. | :47:35. | |
camp, the biggest in Britain, but this is also the regional centre | :47:36. | :47:39. | |
where the whole pan Midlands regional figure will eventually be | :47:40. | :47:48. | |
collated. Confirmation of Hartlepool, which Luke Walton gave. | :47:49. | :48:05. | |
Laura, what are you hearing from the political class? People on the Leave | :48:06. | :48:14. | |
side are very happy with the scale of their victories. On the In side, | :48:15. | :48:18. | |
they are more nervous than they were a couple of hours ago, but they are | :48:19. | :48:23. | |
holding out for the results from the big cities. Interesting hearing | :48:24. | :48:28. | |
Patrick talk about expectations for Birmingham coming out for Remain. I | :48:29. | :48:32. | |
am told a couple of London boroughs are expecting more than 80% of | :48:33. | :48:37. | |
voters to ask their votes to stay in the European Union. So the In | :48:38. | :48:42. | |
campaign are still expecting good things to come from the London vote. | :48:43. | :48:48. | |
But a pattern is emerging. The seeing Remain doing better in their | :48:49. | :48:56. | |
areas and Leave doing better in their areas, and as a result the | :48:57. | :49:00. | |
country is more polarised. We have the result in Basildon. The Basildon | :49:01. | :49:07. | |
area declaration of local count totals. As counting officer for the | :49:08. | :49:16. | |
Basildon and Woking area, at the referendum held on the 23rd of June, | :49:17. | :49:21. | |
2016, under the European Union Referendum Act of 2015, and having | :49:22. | :49:28. | |
been authorised to do so by the regional counting officer, I hereby | :49:29. | :49:33. | |
give notice that I have certified the following. The total number of | :49:34. | :49:42. | |
ballot papers counted was 98,000 62. The total number of votes cast in | :49:43. | :49:53. | |
favour of Remain was 30,748. The total number of votes cast in favour | :49:54. | :49:57. | |
of Leave was 67,251. The total number of ballot papers | :49:58. | :50:16. | |
rejected was 63. Can I now take the opportunity of thanking everybody... | :50:17. | :50:24. | |
There is the percentage. 69-31 in Basildon. We started the programme, | :50:25. | :50:33. | |
the evening, looking with Jeremy Vine had a kind of way of seeing | :50:34. | :50:36. | |
these results, so we could judge whether it looked as though it was | :50:37. | :50:45. | |
going to end up as Leave or Remain, anticipating where various places | :50:46. | :50:48. | |
would lie along a line of probability. Just one way of | :50:49. | :50:53. | |
assessing as we went along what is going on. Jeremy, can you take us | :50:54. | :50:57. | |
through that again, with the results we've had in, and tell us how well | :50:58. | :51:05. | |
it's doing. It's extremely interesting and dramatic. There is | :51:06. | :51:09. | |
something going on in the north-east, no question. We have 382 | :51:10. | :51:15. | |
counting areas and we have greated them out where we do not have | :51:16. | :51:21. | |
results yet. On the basis of a 50-50 result, if it was absolutely even, | :51:22. | :51:25. | |
we would expect the ones in the middle to be evenly split. So we are | :51:26. | :51:30. | |
looking at expectations based on a tight result, and I can tell you | :51:31. | :51:33. | |
what is happening against that expectation. In the north-east, I | :51:34. | :51:38. | |
will flash the councils in the north-east. There are a dozen of | :51:39. | :51:42. | |
them. You will see some of the bars flashing. The longer the bar, the | :51:43. | :51:48. | |
more the voters in the area, most of them on the Leave side. We had an | :51:49. | :51:55. | |
extra revote from Newcastle, one of the few on the Remain side, | :51:56. | :52:01. | |
dramatically towards Remain until the end, when it was almost 50-50. | :52:02. | :52:05. | |
We've had Hartlepool now. That's fine them on our index. They are | :52:06. | :52:11. | |
down the Leave end so the expectation would be that Leave | :52:12. | :52:17. | |
would win. Let's see what Leave actually did. In Hartlepool, a | :52:18. | :52:26. | |
storming victory for Leave, by 40%, way beyond what we would have | :52:27. | :52:29. | |
expected in the event of a tight result between the two sides. So | :52:30. | :52:36. | |
70-30 is an extraordinary result to Leave, even though Hartlepool on the | :52:37. | :52:42. | |
Leave end of our spectrum. South Tyneside, let's find it. It isn't so | :52:43. | :52:49. | |
much towards the Leave end, it is midway between the halfway point and | :52:50. | :52:53. | |
the end. Let's have a look. You wouldn't expect such a powerful vote | :52:54. | :52:57. | |
towards Leave. Let's see what happened. 62-38, and the margin | :52:58. | :53:03. | |
again is much bigger than we expected. Sunderland, we started the | :53:04. | :53:08. | |
night with them, one of the very first results. We pointed out that, | :53:09. | :53:14. | |
based on our analysis of the factors in Sunderland, they were Leave but | :53:15. | :53:21. | |
not deep into Leave territory, so we were not expecting anything but a | :53:22. | :53:25. | |
tight result, and we ended up getting this, 61-39, so the Leave | :53:26. | :53:30. | |
side really showing a clean pair of heels. We are getting some | :53:31. | :53:37. | |
intelligence on these 12 councils in the north-east and making the point | :53:38. | :53:40. | |
that Leave is really storming it in the north-east of England in the | :53:41. | :53:47. | |
councils we have seen so far. If I bring back the index, here it is. | :53:48. | :53:52. | |
You can see the results on the map we have got so far, but there is an | :53:53. | :53:56. | |
awfully long way to go. I suppose the point underlined David is that, | :53:57. | :54:03. | |
if Leave are over performing in the north-east, Remain are going to have | :54:04. | :54:06. | |
to open one somewhere else to catch up. We have a long way to go, | :54:07. | :54:12. | |
because we gave a target of 16.8 million as the winning post will | :54:13. | :54:20. | |
stop 16,800,000. Neither side is yet anywhere near a million. That gives | :54:21. | :54:25. | |
you an idea of how much there is still to go. There is a long, long | :54:26. | :54:35. | |
way to go before we can safely call this. We have got more results in, | :54:36. | :54:46. | |
Merthyr Tydfil in Wales, 16,291 to Leave, 12,500 to Remain. 56-44. | :54:47. | :54:59. | |
Renfrewshire votes to remain. 57,000, 31,000 to Leave. To the west | :55:00. | :55:05. | |
of Glasgow, including Paisley. Midlothian, voting to remain. | :55:06. | :55:19. | |
Scotland pulling its weight, Alex Salmond? You were very critical of | :55:20. | :55:26. | |
the Remain campaign a lot of time, and they have been murmurings that | :55:27. | :55:31. | |
the SNP made it difficult for that campaign. On the contrary, I think | :55:32. | :55:36. | |
it was really important for somebody to say that the style of the Remain | :55:37. | :55:41. | |
campaign led by the Prime Minister and George Osborne, neither of whom | :55:42. | :55:44. | |
are flavour of the month in Scotland, was the wrong way to | :55:45. | :55:49. | |
conduct this campaign, so the Remain campaign in Scotland conducted a | :55:50. | :55:52. | |
totally different campaign and it looks like the result in Scotland | :55:53. | :55:58. | |
will be more than 60% to Remain and more -- less than 40% to Leave. That | :55:59. | :56:05. | |
is what our expectations. Incidentally, a historical point, we | :56:06. | :56:08. | |
said that Shepherd was one of two areas which had voted Out in 75, and | :56:09. | :56:14. | |
the other was the Western Isles. -- Shetland. It has also voted to | :56:15. | :56:21. | |
remain. So it looked like just about every area of Scotland will vote to | :56:22. | :56:25. | |
remain. I understand that your grandson won a prize for Gaelic, so | :56:26. | :56:31. | |
he could give you a bit of coaching! You are such a show of! Let's get | :56:32. | :56:35. | |
the result from Rochford. Then I will talk to John Curtice. Lead 67%, | :56:36. | :56:48. | |
Remain 33%. 79% turnout. Let's have a look at where we have got to so | :56:49. | :56:53. | |
far. You tell us what you think is going on. The first thing we should | :56:54. | :56:58. | |
say is you are right to emphasise that it is far too early to call | :56:59. | :57:03. | |
this referendum, for any of us to be sure what the result is going to be. | :57:04. | :57:07. | |
Many of the results we have been getting tonight have not been that | :57:08. | :57:10. | |
far adrift of what we were saying would happen in that local | :57:11. | :57:16. | |
authority. If the country as a whole divide 50-50. That is an indication | :57:17. | :57:21. | |
that, in most places, that is the territory towards which we are | :57:22. | :57:24. | |
heading. The big dramatic departure from that of these consistent | :57:25. | :57:29. | |
results in the north-east of England, optical, South Tyneside, | :57:30. | :57:36. | |
Newcastle, Sunderland, where the results are very much towards Leave. | :57:37. | :57:41. | |
In Newcastle, we thought that Remain would do well. Outside that, the | :57:42. | :57:48. | |
figures are not so dramatic. We keep getting cases where the vote to | :57:49. | :57:53. | |
Remain seems a couple of points adrift of what we expected, so what | :57:54. | :57:59. | |
happens in London will be critical. City of London, the first counting | :58:00. | :58:03. | |
area in London. A tiny number of voters. Not many people live there, | :58:04. | :58:10. | |
the central part, it is mainly offices. Expected to go to Remain. | :58:11. | :58:18. | |
The number of votes cast in favour of Leave, 187. The number of ballot | :58:19. | :58:26. | |
papers rejected was as follows, to the unmarked four for unmarked or | :58:27. | :58:32. | |
void, giving a total number six. The result for the City of London's area | :58:33. | :58:41. | |
is as declared. The smallest number of voters in any counting area apart | :58:42. | :58:51. | |
from the Isles of Scilly, 1087 leaving, 3312 to Remain. We are | :58:52. | :58:55. | |
waiting for some of the big London boroughs. We bought ones with | :58:56. | :58:58. | |
would-be early in, but not yet. Signs from that borough are more | :58:59. | :59:06. | |
than 70% to Remain. They are pretty confident in that part of London. | :59:07. | :59:10. | |
Very healthy votes to Remain. We will see. Let's have some more of | :59:11. | :59:15. | |
the results coming in. Blaenau Gwent. Let's see that. Remain... | :59:16. | :59:30. | |
38%, 62% to Leave. You can see the latest results on the right. We are | :59:31. | :59:36. | |
just under 1 million. Leave is about to get a million. We broke away from | :59:37. | :59:45. | |
you, John. You are saying it is far too soon. Can you detect any | :59:46. | :59:52. | |
tendency in the people watching this can say, or go to bed if they want | :59:53. | :59:57. | |
to, but I hope they don't, it's only to end, can go to bed or pause or | :59:58. | :00:03. | |
say to themselves, it looks as if we are going to win, this site or that, | :00:04. | :00:09. | |
or is it too soon? What I would worry about for the Remain site is, | :00:10. | :00:15. | |
in places where you would expect a 50-50 split, only if we were doing | :00:16. | :00:21. | |
that, but there are far more places where Leave are doing better than we | :00:22. | :00:25. | |
expected down where Remain are doing better. We had Middlesbrough in, | :00:26. | :00:31. | |
another place in the north-east where the Remain vote is ten points | :00:32. | :00:35. | |
adrift of what we were expecting. Laura is right to point out the | :00:36. | :00:39. | |
importance of London, but we should say that our expectation is that, in | :00:40. | :00:45. | |
a lot of London boroughs, simply to get to a 50-50 result, we would | :00:46. | :00:50. | |
expect the Remain site to get 70% of the vote. The crucial thing would be | :00:51. | :00:56. | |
which boroughs they do well in and whether the figures they get in the | :00:57. | :00:59. | |
capital are significantly better than their expectations. Is what you | :01:00. | :01:04. | |
are expecting happening, or are your expectations being disappointed? For | :01:05. | :01:13. | |
the most part, the places where the Remain side are doing better and the | :01:14. | :01:18. | |
places where the Leave side side are doing better largely where we | :01:19. | :01:20. | |
expected, even in the north-east, even where we... Just remember, the | :01:21. | :01:29. | |
point that expectation, it isn't a forecast, it's an indication about | :01:30. | :01:33. | |
what we think that local authority result means if we are heading for | :01:34. | :01:36. | |
50-50. We are going to get some places that, one side will do | :01:37. | :01:42. | |
better, some places where the other side will do better, it won't be | :01:43. | :01:46. | |
perfect. The thing that Remain have to worry about is, at the moment, | :01:47. | :01:50. | |
there are many more places where they are not doing as well as we | :01:51. | :01:53. | |
would expect and there are where they are doing better than we would | :01:54. | :01:57. | |
expect. Let's go back to the gambling men. They have been | :01:58. | :02:01. | |
following this. How are the odds looking? They are shortening. Remain | :02:02. | :02:09. | |
are still favourites, so David can still make his fortune and 7-4. What | :02:10. | :02:16. | |
about sterling? Gambling is much less reliable and more volatile than | :02:17. | :02:27. | |
sterling, surely? We are not allowed to speak about sterling. Can I make | :02:28. | :02:35. | |
a point? I don't argue at all with what John can -- John Curtice was | :02:36. | :02:39. | |
saying, but I was expecting to be sitting here with those numbers | :02:40. | :02:46. | |
reversed, at the moment Leave 53%, Remain are 46%. Why expected Remain | :02:47. | :02:51. | |
to be in the lead, given who has been counted. Partly, it will be | :02:52. | :02:55. | |
down to the group who came in, but this looks to me to be a very good | :02:56. | :03:01. | |
result for Leave. We are way behind on London. We have only had the | :03:02. | :03:07. | |
City. But Leave have gone over the million. Nearly 2 million, quite a | :03:08. | :03:14. | |
big sample of the total votes. Wellingborough voting to leave. | :03:15. | :03:24. | |
Peter Bone, and his wife, those of you who follow the House of Commons | :03:25. | :03:29. | |
will know she is just as important. A long-standing campaigner against | :03:30. | :03:40. | |
the EU in Northamptonshire. 62% to leave, 38% to remain. | :03:41. | :03:42. |