Live debate from Goldsmiths, University of London. An audience of young people quiz a panel including Labour MP David Lammy on topics such as the availability of good housing.
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This is Free Speech, we're live and it is the only show where you can
express your opinions on the issues you care about right now on BBC
Three. I still can't get work.
You make your own luck in this world.
We can't lose an entire generation. We have got people talking about
statistics. Businesses are the life-blood of
the economy. APPLAUSE
Yes, this is Free Speech. Welcome. I'm Rick Edwards and tonight we are
at Goldsmiths University of London. We're going to be hearing what this
lot have to say and what you have got to say too. Just tell, Tina
Daheley. Yes. APPLAUSE
Thank you, Rick. I am here to listen to your opinions and bring
them to the heart of our discussion live right here in the studio. So,
get your laptops, tablets and phones ready. Get online now with
the BBC Facebook or Twitter. Here are the addresses you need. One
really easy way to be part of the debate is by the power bar which
should have popped up behind me. It will respond in real-time to what
you think of the panel's point of view. So just use hashtag yes or
hashtag no followed by the name of the panellist each time you agree
or disagree. And here is our panel, whose job is
to tell us who they are and what they are doing here. Let's start
with you, please, Raheem Kassam. I'm Raheem Kassam. I guess I am
here because I'm tired of politicians telling us what to do.
APPLAUSE David. My name is David Lammy and I
am the MP for Tottenham and I am here because I think young people
in Britain are getting a raw deal. Charlotte.
I'm Charlotte Leslie. I'm the MP for Bristol North West and I am
here because if you want to change things in in life you need to get
in and get involved. My name is Sara Pascoe. I am a
comedian and actor and I am here to learn more about what you guys
think about stuff. That's our panel.
APPLAUSE OK, let's get started. We are
talking about rent Britain and here in London, rents are increasing
eight times faster than wages and young people can expect to life at
home until they are 43 before they can afford to buy. What has been
your experiences of renting in London, guys? Yes. Rent in London
is ridiculous. It is reclick clusly high and for me, -- ridiculously
high and for me, I have to go out of London to get a nice house and
the quality of the house in London is shabby.
You feel you are going to have to leave. Anyone else struggling with
rent? It is not feasible to own or rent your own property. I'm still
living with my family and in terms of rent, it is very high for young
people to go and rent or purchase a property.
Yes. I've lived on my own since I was 15 and I'm 27 now and I have
only moved to London and it is extortionate for a room, let alone
like trying to get my own house or anything.
Too much. Yes? I feel, I rent in London and I had no idea where to
go, how to find a house, whether I was getting a good deal or a bad
deal and the fact that I have a roof over my head now is a miracle.
That's what I have to say. OK. The gentleman at the back here.
I live in Brighton and I find it hard to find a place to live. It is
the commuter prices. People in London, condition afford to --
can't afford to live in London. They will buy up the houses there.
I'm finding it hard myself even living in Brighton.
Louise, what's your experience? I recognise you from TV. Well, you
would think that, but one of the things that's really important to
think about is, we have all established that most of us will be
renting until we are in our mid-40s, unless you have rich parents.
Something that has been addressed is the red tape and the paperwork
that self-employed people have to go. I have moved this year and I
had to go through the same checks and paperwork and stress just to
rent a property that my friends have done who have bought.
Obviously, if I my own property to rent out, I would want to make sure
it was protected, but to be honest, I felt like a criminal. I have
never felt more guilty in the six weeks these checks were performed
on me. Here is my DNA, what more do you want from me? I just want to
rent a property. APPLAUSE
The housing charity, Shelter, say phone calls are up 40% in the last
year, dealing with people struggling with housing. Who eltion
-- who else had rent problems? is a mainly a lot of young people
have to rent via Gumtree, I faced landlords giving me a legal rent
and turning up three days later and three weeks later, saying, "I want
it for my brother. I want it for my sister." You go to the police and
the paperwork is not value valid and when you ask them, they will
say, "It is Gumtree." That's criminal for a lot of young people
who will never see housing and never own the House of Their own.
The lady here? I think you are stigmatised because you have to fit
into a certain trat gee in order to -- certain category in order to
rent. As a a student that doesn't come under the criteria of having a
full-time job where you look stable. Even though you have the means to
pay for it, but because you don't look like the right person on paper,
even if you have the money then you are looked at a certain way as a
student, that you are not going to look after the property.
That's interesting. When we posted about this on Facebook and Twitter,
we got a huge response and we have spoken to Cat and Dean who have
different experiences of how they I'm Dean. I am an apprentice motor
trader. Working on a building site makes me think think more about
houses. I live with my mum at the moment. I want to get on to the
housing ladder because I want to have stability when I'm older.
My name is Cat, I have been squatting for 12 years. I am a poet.
Most of the buildings that people squat in or long-term empty
properties. I found renting isolating. Some of my friends were
squatting and I decided to go and live with them because I didn't
know when my job was finished and if I would be able to pay the rent.
House prices are way too high for people of my age. It makes me think
that I won't get on to the housing ladder unless I had help from
somebody else. When you are a renting, the landlord can kick you
out whenever they want. I am planning to buy with my mum.
I get to live in places that I otherwise wouldn't get to live in.
There is around about 15 to 20 people who live here. It can be
stressful at times, it is not for everybody, but it is better than
trying to find �600 a month. If whoever owns the property is not in
a position to use it, then they should pass it over to the
Government to be used for social housing. I think that would bring
down the prices for everybody else. I was was thinking your squat
looked nice. We didn't have water at the time. We had to collect the
water. You have a question. What is it?
you can't afford to live in London, should you move out?
OK. Let's go down to our panel. I will start with you ra you Raheen,
you will have 30 seconds and I am going to time it. Go! I have lived
in London all my life, but I don't figure it is a right that I get to
live in London. If my financial situation continues the way it is,
I will have to think of moving further out or outside London. When
I grad graduated, I moved down the road here and I got a really cheap,
box room. I don't believe we should be looking to cram ourselves this
London. We have got wonderful cities in this country and
employers are putting jobs there and we should be looking elsewhere
in this country. Very good time wise. Very good.
APPLAUSE David. I think quite a lot of young
people have to live in London because this is where the jobs are.
The point is... APPLAUSE
And there is no choice so the point is that we have got to have fair
rents because people are renting houses that are actually horrible
and flats that are horrible and they are paying over the odds so we
need some kind of rent control or fair fair rents like in Germany. We
have to build more houses. We have got to regulate landlords and
regulate letting agents who are charging extortionate fees for just
turning up. APPLAUSE
Is regulation something that would help? Is rent control something
that would help? Yes, the guy at the back here. It is a good idea,
but how would you go about regulating or legislating it? How
much money would that cost in getting the jobs, it might create
jobs having people do this, but how much money would it cost to
regulate? I would like to see it done because then I I could afford
to get a place of my own, perhaps, but I don't think it would be cost
effective. Yes, the gentleman here.
I am doing an apprenticeship in an estate agents. Rent ago property is
a business, it is d renting a property is a business, it is about
making money. Houses in London are highly sought after, if the demand
is increasing, surely the price will increase as well.
It makes sense. Let's speak to Cat. I believe housing is a Hythe, it is
about -- it is a human right. It is about homes.
If you agree or disagree with anything that you are hearing or
that has just been said, let Tina know.
Yes, please get in touch. James, you would probably get on with
Raheem who says, "stop winging about rent. The State can't solve
anything." What if you can't afford not to live in London? Is it
discrimination on income grounds? Charlotte? If we didn't have enough
housing, the price wouldn't be so high. We are doing really well, but
it is tricky and we are loosening up planning regulations so we can
do more: You are not doing well?It is a massive problem. Regulation
sounds lies, but if you have a -- regular regulation sounds nice. I
think helping first-time buyers on to the housing market is good. But
I mean, I think we have had experiences of living in shoe boxes
in in London and it is grim, our parents generation had it good and
we are suffering because of a baby boom generation. It is not anyone's
fault, but a baby boom generation to sapped up the property.
Sara, how do you feel about housing in London? I will tell you about me,
but so I grew up in Essex and I I moved out at 18 and I lived in
Leytonstone and I went to university and lived in in halls. I
never really questioned whether that was right, it is scwust what I
had -- just what I had to do. Now I live in Tooting. It is a fantastic
area that's really cheap if you don't mind being on the overground.
Tooting is up and coming. I don't think I over pay my rent for what I
have got in terms of London, but again, I don't question because it
is London that I deserve anymore than that. I just, I am grateful to
be here and also, housing outside of the city, if you said to me, it
would be half the rent and you would be in Nottingham. I wouldn't
go. I would rather be here. This is where I have grown-up and it is
about maybe, the creative ways of working out out what are we going
to do about that? Some people don't want to live with strangers and
houses have to be, not have mice and have running water and it is
hork when people -- horrible when people are suffering because of the
place they are living in. You say you can't imaginically
produce produce Magically houses, we can build them.
Let's fire up the power bar. David, you are in the lead so far.
really struggling, giving up the hope of ever being able to buy their
own home here. Fundamentally, this is an issue of lack of supply. We
are not building enough homes. We haven't been for many years. Until
we sort that out, prices will continue to go up. We need to get
building in London. Who else thinks we need to get building in London?
Where is Rob? I think this is an argument for uncontrolled mass
immigration. We should be looking after British youths. There is a
shortage of houses, especially in London. It is about supply and
demand. We have a big demand at the moment. In January, it could get.
There is a potential for it to get a lot. We need to ensure the supply is
there for the British youths before we open the borders to Eastern
Europeans. OK. Josh? How would you respond to that? It is true, from a
Lib Dem perspective, we do need to build more social housing. If you
look at local authorities, the Lib Dems have a much better record than
the Tories and Labour on building social housing. The percentage of
the housing stock goes up under Lib Dem councils. We need to look at
other ways to make sure low earners can access this housing. I welcome
the fact that Lib Dem policy like low erring income tax for basic
ratepayers is ensuring over 20 million people is getting a �700 tax
cut. That allows them to keep the money they have worked really hard
to earn. Little things like that can help people. OK. I'm speaking up for
people at home! Chris, he says, "I will be moving to London in
September for uni. Half my money will be going on my room! It is
ridiculous!" Who else feels like they are spending over 50% of their
income on rent at the moment? I am. As a student, I'm paying a lot
more for my rent in comparison, it is over 30% of what I'm getting. In
terms of students - because the Government knows what we are
entitled to - our rent should be cheaper. Yes? I would like to talk
about the same thing Chris raised at home. I moved here from my first
year and the halls costs are ridiculous. I'm fortunate that I
managed to get a job and cover some of that. A lot of people are finding
it very difficult to move to London and pay so much for rent. OK. The
lady at the back? Maybe the answer is to raise the rent in London? And
raise the wage in London. That can't be the answer! Sorry, you were
saying...? To raise the wage in London. Just in London? OK. This
gentleman here? We have seen a worrying demographic shift in
London. Poor people are being priced out. It is like a class-based city
and it is only for Conservative voters and the Conservative Party
are only too willing to cut housing benefit to make this happen because
there are so many constituencies in London. David Lammy, I would be
worried about what the Conservatives are doing. You have to fight against
it and help poor people in this country. Are you worried, David?
Well, I spent most of the last week speaking out against the housing
benefit cap. In a sense, people are receiving that housing benefit
because of high rents. The money is going to landlords. The fair rents
that I argued for are happening in Germany where rents are linked to
inflation, index-related and where there are much longer tenancies.
Your landlord can come and take your rent up every two months at the
moment. In Germany, people have five-year tenancies so they can plan
over a year, two, three, four, five, they know how much the rent is going
up. We need that system over here. One quarter of housing benefit
claimants are in employment. Tina? James is making this point. "We need
to build more houses. How about some new towns in the London commuter
area?" This person, "Building more houses would create more jobs and
homes but potential future problems." "Public transport is a
key issue. Moving outside of London means paying large amounts on
travel." If you want your point of view read out, you have to make it
first. Get in touch. Head to Facebook.com/BBCFreeSpeech. Now we
are going to move on to the minimum wage. The Business Secretary has
announced it is going up. Good news. But how good? Anyone here that works
or has worked for minimum wage? A few of you have. Do you know how
much it is going to go up to in October? Not enough is maybe right!
12 pence for over 21s, 3 pence if you are an apprentice. Yvonne has a
question. My question is why can't minimum wage be abolished
altogether? We should be paid according to service. Let's go to
David. I will do the 30 seconds on the clock for you. 30 seconds to
respond. The Labour Party fought hard to get a National Minimum Wage.
People were being exploited and ripped off, paid 50p, �1 an hour
before that. We should defend it. We now need to move on to having a
living wage. This is not the time... Ten seconds? This is not the time to
go backwards. Frankly, those that think that somehow this has been
inflationary are wrong. The National Minimum Wage is being copied around
the world. Stop. Thank you, David. Raheem? Do you agree? No. I don't
care what the Labour Party fought for. I don't care what any political
party fought for. This is an issue about people. The minimum wage - it
is a false economy. It pushes up pricing and it makes employers cut
the number of people they can employ. When I was working in a
retail store at university, they raised the minimum wage. What did my
employer do? He cut half the staff in the shop and the prices went up.
The punters couldn't afford the products and the business had to
slash further. It does not make sense to have a minimum wage. It is
discriminatory. It tells you that you cannot decide for yourself what
your services are worth. This is you, this is your labour, you decide
what it is worth and you go out there and market yourself. A
Government telling you what to do is so patronising. David? He is arguing
to go back to the 18th Century when working-class people were exploited
in this country. Two opposing views. Is that getting people going?
Paul says, "Abolished - all it's done is push prices up for
everyone." Sara? I find discussing it really scary. I think that it's
the vulnerable people that would suffer at this. The only thing I do
think that could happen is if there was a sliding scale within
businesses, so some people's minimum wage - if you were a successful
nightclub, your minimum wage would be less than a country pub where you
have two members of staff and you serve six people all evening. It
doesn't go any lower than it is now. All that happens is that really
vulnerable people, the people that clean, the people that work in bars,
they will end up working 14 or 15-hour shifts to make the same
money that is disgraceful now. I find it discussing it really -- I
find discussing it really worrying. This gentleman? Bankers have
exploited all of us in the last few years, so we should have a National
Maximum Wage in my opinion. Interesting. This gentleman? Living
wage has been introduced in the City Council of Leicester. My opinion
about the minimum wage, it should be kept. There ought to be a balance so
that people don't get fired from their jobs. There's a possibility of
being a balance between jobs, taxes, housing benefit, pretty much
everything should be a balance so that you move forward, the business
can grow. But the economy is more stable. Is it possible to maintain
that balance, Charlotte? I think the word is "balance". When I was
working on a minimum wage and I was mopping up pub floors, if someone
had said, "Do you want a rise in the minimum wage?" I would have said,
"Yes, please." It is always a balance. You do have to protect
people. There are some ruthless employers out there. You don't want
a living wage that is so high that people have to let people go. It is
a balance. Sometimes, it is a difficult one. I think raising it -
inflation is rising, living standards are getting higher.
Raising it is probably the right thing to do. OK. This gentleman
here? You would like to talk about discrimination, but the people on
unpaid internships are being discriminated where we don't pay
them anything for working. If there was no minimum wage, those people
could be employed at a level that their skills are worth. At the
moment, they are getting nothing. David? I think there is an issue
with internships. It depends on - there is a difference between
probably a 15 or 16-year-old spending a couple of weeks working,
an 18-year-old, someone who is at university doing a sabbatical year,
so you have to look in a lot of detail as to what the internship is,
and whether it is work experience, voluntary, or a job, but graduates
should be paid for a job of work. The reason this happens - I'm asking
because I don't understand - internships, if you are not paid, is
that because they are seen as education and not work? They can be
voluntary. It is such a grey area. There is no guarantee after you have
worked for free that you get that job? No.It is like acting! You are
the youngest member of the Corporation of London. What is your
feeling about minimum wages? I think abolishing minimum wage would lead
to exploitation. I think the whole argument here is finding a balance
between the two. In order to find the balance, we need to discuss the
main issue which is getting our young people back into employment in
the first place to pay them a wage. Is there anyone here who feels the
minimum wage has no particular effect? Yes? Obviously, it has an
affect on people. I believe that when you go to work, you know, the
way the minimum wage sort of restricts people and puts you in a
category. Nurses get paid for instance ridiculously less than the
banking elite and the people who control our country. And how the
workers have to pay for people like David Cameron's rent and your rent,
Sir. And the money comes, it seems it is twisted in the way the
capitalist system, how it is working, it means a lot of people,
in a rich country like Britain, are living in poverty and can't eat and
can't afford to survive. Something is going incredibly wrong here, you
know. People are going to the storehouse and not being able to
eat. The Queen has �27 trillion, she is Queen of England, and people are
starving on the streets. Yes? think, essentially, all this the
increases in the minimum wage are just lip service. If you are upping
it by 13p, that doesn't address the issue. The majority of jobs that are
available are quite temporary. It doesn't matter if you are adding 13p
extra an hour to somebody who is only able to get 20 hours a week.
This is affecting the people who are struggling to find whatever work
there is. OK. Yes? The question was should the minimum wage be
abolished? When I was 17, I had two job offers. One offered to pay me
the minimum wage. It was quite obvious which one to go for - I went
for the �6.19. That makes a big difference. By abolishing it, you
allow employers to give ridiculous amount, like �3, 50p an hour, even.
It is a good idea to keep it as it is. Who feels like you are going to
get taken advantage of the you abolish the minimum wage? If you are
do the same job as someone that is older than you, but you get paid a
different amount, you are doing the same job, so why should you get paid
less? You think - you don't value experience in that respect?
should be the same age. All ages should get paid the same amount.
Yes? I agree. As a younger person, you are a lot fitter, you have more
energy, you are a lot more able to do more things so it is unfair to
pay a young person less and an older person more when they are least
likely to be pro active. OK. This lady? The minimum wage is necessary.
It brings an element of equality so nobody will get exploited. The
Government are too corrupt. They need to bring some support to young
people here who are struggling. The cost-of-living is going up. Salaries
and incomes are going up so slowly that people are struggling. People
will turn to crime and they will moan again when the next riots
happen. People are hungry. Tina, are the people online echoing what we
Lots of people using the word exploitation.
And then this one says, "We need a maximum wage."
APPLAUSE It is a good time to get a power
bar update to see if anything has changed. Raheem, you have slipped
back a bit. It was probably your comments about the minimum wage.
You can influence the tower bar. Get on -- power bar. Get on Twitter.
If you agree with Raheem, it is: For David, it is:
For Charlotte, it is. For Sara, it is:
Make your voice heard on Free Speech.
Tuition fees and debt is a huge issue for many of you. Figures show
that 19% of graduates will be unemployed and and 36% will be in
low skilled jobs. This is what Suli Brakes has to say.
So you want to get a degree? Why?
Let me tell whau society will tell -- you what society will tell you.
It increases your chances of getting a job. Your life will be
less stressful. Education is the key. Now let me tell you what your
parents will tell you. Make me proud. Increases your chances of
getting a job. Provides you with an opportunity to be successfulment
your life will be less stressful. Education is the key. Now, let's
look at the statistics. Stephen Jobs, net worth �7 billion. RIP.
Richard Bronson, net worth �4.2 billion. Oprah Winfrey, net worth
�2.7 billion. Stephen Spielberg and and Bill Gates, looking at these
individuals, what is your conclusion? Neither of them have
graduated from a higher learning It is interesting stuff. Cherry,
you have got a question. Because of the increase in tuition fees and a
shortage of graduate jobs, do you think it is better to go into
apprenticeships? 30 second for Charlotte, starting now?
sensible thing to do is to go into a degree or an apprenticeship if it
is the right thing for you. We have been dishonest with young people
about what their degree is going to lead them to. A lot of employers
say they would be better off doing the real thing and not writing
about it. And And doing an apprenticeship is just as good as
doing an academic course and when we get that right, people get their
futures right. David, what do you think about
apprenticeships and their value? There is a lot of hype about
apprenticeships, but you have got to look behind it. The majority of
apprenticeships are in retail and admin. They are not actually in
quality professions and technical skills that people want. I worked
in McDonald's. I worked at Kentucky Fried Chicken. Please don't call
that an apprenticeship. So there is a lot of changes that need to be
made for apprenticeships. The majority of the increase in
apprenticeships is over 35s. It is not actually young people doing
those jobs. The work programme is not working, the youth contract is
not working. Young people in this country are unemployed. The hype
about apprenticeships is is spin. Of course, university is worth it,
but you have to look closely at the university and the course. That is
the truth and for some people, �9,000 for some of those courses is
not worth it. APPLAUSE
As a disabled person, I find even though I have got the academic
criter criteria to go to the best university in London, I feel my
disability has limited my access to those universities because the
funding and the loans that I get from universities are not enough
and I am having to go to other sources and beg them, plead, for
money just so I can go to those universities, just so I can access
what I need to and it is so much stress and I have reached points
where I thought, "It is not worth it." I think it maybe better for me
to go in an internship because it is stress-free.
Who else feels the cost of university is so great? I believe
that it is crucial to go into higher education, to maximise your
chances of being successful. But when the political party promises
to lower or keep the twu wirks fee -- tuition fees low, and they don't,
who can we trust with our futures? Who feels that university, you
don't need it? Is there anyone here? To be honest, I think what
the topics we are talking about is on survival and I think it is
important that people they should go to university and learn how to,
you know, not even go to university, but they should learn how to
survive and grow their own food. There wouldn't be a problem if
everyone was growing food in their own back garden. That is not being
advertised. You get McDonald's, MSG, but that's going to kill you. All
the big corporations are trying to poison us when we should be trying
to grow our own food and survive of our own backs.
They are not deliberately trying to poison us, I don't think.
They are trying to kill us. We can have a great chat afterwards.
I disagree with what the gentleman said over there saying that
education or higher education equals success. I think there is a
big smoke screen and we have been indock trind from young. I come
from a very academic background and I love education and it was the
next thing. You had to do university. I never stopped to
assess my own life and see what career I want to do and I really do,
in hindsight respect the young students that stepped out of
college and really looked at their own life and thought thought, "No,
I don't want to go to university yet." This they want to go to
university and become a doctor, go for it. However, real life skills
to network or what not or speak to people and communicate and learn
from each other, it is something you can learn from every day life.
You don't need a letter to say, "I have got a degree and I can survive
with it.". This gentleman. You mentioned you were doing an
apprenticeship at an estate agent. Do you feel you messed up? I just
cancelled a contract in a football club. Me personally, I feel that
experience is far more valuable than any qualification because it
is proving that you can do the job well.
Yes? What I found worrying and sad about what everyone is saying
tonight, we are not talking about dreams or aspirations, everyone is
talking about survival. Whilst, I don't agree with this lovely lad
here, it is about survival. We are not talking about in ten years, I
want to be earning X and I want to have my own business and own a
property, it is about how we get through the next six months and I
feel this generation is being robbed.
Yes. I don't study the big big things, but I did musical theatre
and for me, it is about taking a gamble and I didn't do, I did
college, but I didn't want to pay nine grand. You will you need is
one lucky break and I have had a few over the years, but it is not
about going into further education and about the right time, the right
place. I would say it is about what is
right for you and parents and schools need to give young people a
dose of reality, this talk about it you get a degree, you will get a
good job, it is not guaranteed. I don't have a degree, I am the only
person person in my family. I have been working since I was 16 and I
have had my own business, I am doing OK, like work wise. I am in a
senior position with no degree and they are saying my experience is
invaluable. That's the most valuable thing to an employer. Let
people know that a degree is not going to get you through that
doorment you need to do what is right for you. Don't be pressured
by your parents or peers. Find yourself and do what is right for
you. . Yes, sir in the glasses? From the
other side, it has become fashionable to bash degrees. There
are a lot of people that want to go and out and carry on learning and
carry on educating themselves and there is nothing wrong with going
to an apprenticeship. I don't know why why suddenly people are up in
arms about degrees. The gentleman here.
When people decided that 50% of young people have to go to
university, it made everything else much less valuable. Yes, some
degrees are important, doctors, you need that quality of education, but
apprenticeships should be the main way. Our secondary education system
is flawed. Because it says you must be academic or you have failed.
Technical schools and colleges are the way we need to focus because
some people aren't academic and that doesn't make them bad people.
A degree is not for everyone. It was damaging when the Tony Blair
Government said 50% of all youngsters should be going to
universities. I went to university. I fell pressure to go to university
from my parents, from the school and I wasn't a particularly, you
know, the type of person who would be good at hitting the books. I
feel like I lost out in that time. I have just started a company
myself trying to be self-employed on how to file tax returns on how
to do company accounts. Learning real life, real world skills. It
wasn't for me and I bet you, it is not for a lot of people. We are
trying to pressure so many people to go to university when they don't
want to, they are not cut out for it and we do better if we taught
them the skills to go out in the workplace and become the Richard
Branson's of the world. You went to university, Sara?
I am a terrible example to young people. I worked for two years. I
had no money. I was working in Nottingham for �100 and I was so
far over my overdraft, the only way was to go to university. I did an
English degree and it was the first generation, I had a single parent
family from Romford and Dagenham and I never thought I would earn
over 0 grand and they -- 20 grand and they said if you earn over 20
grand and after ten years it goes away and I was like "brilliant." I
know it is a lot more now, but do you know what? I earn, I only
started paying off my student student loan and that degree is no
use for any job unless you want to be an English teacher. It smashed
my mind open. It made me want to learn about things and be part of
the community and that's why I am proud to pay for it.
An interesting prospective. Tina? Steve Steve Jobs and and Alan
Sugar succeeded. How can you expect young people to survive on �2 an
hour, pay them a minimum age and bring in a living wage as well.
Damien says, "Go to university and read a degree if it makes you happy
and if it is what you want to do." It is about making you happy. Good
time to have a look at the power bar to see if anything changed.
David, you are still in the lead. Very popular. At home with the
online audience, but Sara is close behind you!
Oh, yes, David. The FA announced this afternoon
that Luis Suarez has received a ten match ban for biting Branislav
Ivanovic on the arm. It is a longer ban than he received for racially
abusing patries Patrice Evra. boyfriend says I talk about
football like a Daly Mail talks about immigration. Just repeating
things I have heard, passionately, but with no knowledge! My thing on
this, I have got an A-level in law and so I think, so I read something
like this in the papers and it says a man bit another man and that
should be, people should be protected whether they are at work.
I do stand-up and if someone heckles me, I am not allowed to hit
them. People complain about the amount of matches he is doing, he
should go to prison. Sorry Liverpool FC.
I don't think prison is on the cards. Raheem? Ten matches is a
short amount of time. He has got form. He was banned by the Dutch FA
for doing the same thing. He is not a great role model. The FA has a
responsibility to make sure this guy is a role model for young
people. I don't want to see people biting each other in the playground.
This guy should be made to clean up the stadium after each after each
of the ten games that he is not allowed to play in. He needs to
learn that he can't behave like an animal on the pitch and get away.
He needs to feel like this hits him in the pocket. He should be given
therapy. If he was a bus driver and he bit someone, you don't like your
help. Someone needs to help you you.
He is going to do anger management classes, I believe.
You played football, what's your I think it is passion that hasn't
been controlled properly. It shows his passion in want to go win, but
he has to be punish whether he is a millions of lives. We are not
talking about that. What we are talking about at the moment is
Suarez. You, at the back? You would get fired for biting someone in any
other job. It is just about you bit somebody at work - fire him! Yes?
The way the FA has dealt with it has been the worst part. Giving a lower
ban than for racism. It seems like they are saying, "Say no to rabies!"
Catchy(!) Yes? It is because the FA know they can get away with it. The
more, the higher company you work for, the more money you earn. It
seems like it is less regulated for what you can do. If they can get
away with banning him for ten matches, they will do that. If it
swuz someone, not in a higher company, the consequences would be
tough. Are we furious because he earns so much money? Is that the
thing? I think, like the gentleman there said, we shouldn't be talking
about it. We are.I know. We are. So let's move on. My point is...
Footballers are role models for young people - they are not. We
shouldn't expect that footballers have a moral obligation to behave on
the pitch because children are watching them. They are playing and,
in the heat of the moment, they might bite someone. What he did, the
punishment he got for it, we should be questioning why the Football
Association take less of a stance on racism and more of a stance on
someone biting. That is ludicrous. Yes, the hand up there? Whether it
is racism or biting, footballers are role models. If they are -
five-year-olds will imitate the behaviour. They won't.They will!
Children imitate behaviour more than you will believe. It is wrong to say
that they won't. Yes, Sir? When you say about Luis Suarez - nurses get
paid �120,000 in two years, he gets that in a week! They save lives for
16 hours a day. Yes, OK. You are cross about that. Charlotte? Look,
he was at work. All I know is if I bit David Cameron at work... A big
if! If I do... There is a point about people being beyond blame. We
have seen bankers, the head of the NHS. They are big people and seem to
be beyond blame. He needs to face the consequences. Your life is not
in a great way if you are biting someone. Being a high-profile
footballer has to be a stress and a strain. He needs to be taken off the
pitch, for the other players' sake as well! Yes, the gentleman there?
You have precedent in law. When the Merseyside Police turn round and go,
"There is no case to argue." When somebody in the street bites
someone, "You can't prosecute me, you didn't prosecute Luis Suarez,
I'm innocent, too!" David? A club like Liverpool should be about
community, about hard work, about reputation. I think it is a shame
that we have got to a place where big football clubs put money - and
that's what Luis Suarez represents - before a decency that football used
to be about. In the end, I think the public are reacting against a group
of people and footballers are included, they are hugely
privileged, lots of money, and they are above the law when everybody
else can't make racist statements and can't go around biting people.
Tina? Why are we talking about Suarez? We put this on the Newsbeat
Facebook page and it got a huge response. Jamie said, "I want to
know why UK law doesn't apply to football pitches. Assault and racism
need to be stopped." Adam, "Should have been banned from the Premier
League. They should be given the punishment we get." "It's a
ludicrous ban. I have seen a lot worse on a football pitch. He shows
passion, unlike so many others." The Power Bar update. Sara, you have
caught up with David. Neck-and-neck. Very good. The death of Lady
Thatcher provoked a huge response from young and old with many
conflicting opinions about her legacy. The Free Speech audience
have had their say too. Here are a few thoughts to start you off.
Strong minded. Patriotic. Short-sighted. The Iron Lady.Strong
lady. U-turn, if you want to. female Prime Minister. Shift of the
political spectrum. Communities destroyed by unemployment. Lack of
social housing. Get rich quick.The Lady is not for turning. Unlucky.
Lucky. Very lucky. Does it matter? It's happened. Lucky.Move on. Her
legacy remains. We have a question from Josh? Was it right to celebrate
the death of Thatcher? "Yes" or "no"? Celebrate the death of
someone? No, that is never right. I think you can politically disagree
with someone. David and I politically disagree on a lot of
things. I would like to think when either of us pass away the other one
won't dance on the grave! You have had two very strong opinions come
out on either side. People aren't looking at the facts. People aren't
looking at the facts that the Labour Government before her closed more
mining pits than she did in 11 years. They closed more in five
years. There are a lot of myths out there. I implore people before we
make these judgments, just go out and read about it for yourselves.
Read some things you don't necessarily think you will agree
with and test yourself and say, "Did I know that about what she did?" See
exactly what she stood for in the world. Please, no matter who it is,
when Chavez died, a lot of people were celebrating. Don't celebrate
someone's death. David? If you were growing up in an inner city area, as
I was, if you saw riots, if you were a miner, if you were fighting
against apartheid, this is not a woman you feel like you want to
celebrate. I don't think you should celebrate someone's death. You have
to ask who is the person that created a culture, a consumerism, a
lack of decency? Where did that begin? In the' 80s. Charlotte?
let other people tell you what to think. Let's remember - I wasn't
born in the '70s. Rats, bodies uncollected, three-day weeks, the
"Winter of Discontent" was a bad place. Heath was responsible for
that. The mining community was not sustainable. It had been closing.
Thatcher switched off the liep support machine. That is not to
undermine the -- the life-support machine. That is not to under mine
that - it is a complex legacy. It's made me read a lot more about
what's happened under Thatcher's Government. It brings us together,
whether we agree or disagree. We now talk about what we do. That is what
I think. A quick show of hands. Who feels like Thatcher had a positive
legacy? Who thinks negative? Interesting. Any specific thoughts?
With Thatcher, a lot of her legacy - she brought the country forward into
a time that other places in the world had got to before us. We
cannot forget a lot of the divisive politics that she stood for and
whilst a lot of the things would have happened without her, we cannot
forget that millions of people were unemployed and she wasn't perfect,
but she wasn't evil at the same time. You should never celebrate
someone's death. Tina, a final look at the Power Bar? It's been
interesting. Charlotte, you slipped ahead of David, now you have slipped
back. Overall tonight, David, you are the winner. Congratulations.
That means you get to have the final say. You have 15 seconds. That's on
this debate. David?For this debate, it keeps changing. We have worked
out the maths behind it. David is the winner! It is not a fix. David?
Look, I think, as I said, young people are getting a raw deal in
this country. Unemployment, tuition fees, and the discussion we have had
about the minimum wage. For those reasons, you have to be politically
engaged. You have to stand up to the Coalition Government. You have to
pressure my party to continue to do better, basically. This country
needs a proper politics that addresses the issues of our time. We
have been debating the 1980s. We are living with the legacy of the 1980s.
We need to move forward together and this programme has demonstrated
that. That is almost it. Thank you to our audience. Our panel and to
you at home for sending in all of your comments. The debate will
continue online every day of every week of every month of the year.
Join us next time. We will be live on May 22nd at 8.00pm. We will leave
you with some more thoughts on education from Suli Brakes. This one
is for my generation. Picture their future, accept destiny on Facebook.
This one has my failures and drop-outs. Shop assistants and
cleaners and cashiers, my self-employed entrepreneurs, the
How easy is it for young people to get decent housing? This is just one of the big stories in the live debate show presented by Rick Edwards from Goldsmiths, University of London, with an audience of 120 people aged 18-28. Rick hears the opinions of the studio audience on the big stories of the day, with Tina Daheley from Radio 1's Newsbeat relaying Twitter, Facebook and website messages from viewers at home. David Lammy, Labour MP for Tottenham, is among those on the panel of distinguished commentators.