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This is Free Speech, we're live and it is the only show where you can | :00:09. | :00:12. | |
express your opinions on the issues you care about right now on BBC | :00:12. | :00:19. | |
Three. I still can't get work. | :00:19. | :00:23. | |
You make your own luck in this world. | :00:23. | :00:28. | |
We can't lose an entire generation. We have got people talking about | :00:28. | :00:31. | |
statistics. Businesses are the life-blood of | :00:31. | :00:41. | |
:00:41. | :00:51. | ||
the economy. APPLAUSE | :00:51. | :00:57. | |
Yes, this is Free Speech. Welcome. I'm Rick Edwards and tonight we are | :00:57. | :01:02. | |
at Goldsmiths University of London. We're going to be hearing what this | :01:02. | :01:06. | |
lot have to say and what you have got to say too. Just tell, Tina | :01:06. | :01:11. | |
Daheley. Yes. APPLAUSE | :01:11. | :01:14. | |
Thank you, Rick. I am here to listen to your opinions and bring | :01:14. | :01:17. | |
them to the heart of our discussion live right here in the studio. So, | :01:17. | :01:21. | |
get your laptops, tablets and phones ready. Get online now with | :01:21. | :01:25. | |
the BBC Facebook or Twitter. Here are the addresses you need. One | :01:25. | :01:29. | |
really easy way to be part of the debate is by the power bar which | :01:29. | :01:32. | |
should have popped up behind me. It will respond in real-time to what | :01:32. | :01:38. | |
you think of the panel's point of view. So just use hashtag yes or | :01:38. | :01:43. | |
hashtag no followed by the name of the panellist each time you agree | :01:43. | :01:46. | |
or disagree. And here is our panel, whose job is | :01:46. | :01:50. | |
to tell us who they are and what they are doing here. Let's start | :01:50. | :01:55. | |
with you, please, Raheem Kassam. I'm Raheem Kassam. I guess I am | :01:55. | :01:59. | |
here because I'm tired of politicians telling us what to do. | :01:59. | :02:04. | |
APPLAUSE David. My name is David Lammy and I | :02:04. | :02:07. | |
am the MP for Tottenham and I am here because I think young people | :02:07. | :02:11. | |
in Britain are getting a raw deal. Charlotte. | :02:11. | :02:14. | |
I'm Charlotte Leslie. I'm the MP for Bristol North West and I am | :02:14. | :02:19. | |
here because if you want to change things in in life you need to get | :02:19. | :02:24. | |
in and get involved. My name is Sara Pascoe. I am a | :02:24. | :02:28. | |
comedian and actor and I am here to learn more about what you guys | :02:28. | :02:36. | |
think about stuff. That's our panel. | :02:36. | :02:38. | |
APPLAUSE OK, let's get started. We are | :02:38. | :02:41. | |
talking about rent Britain and here in London, rents are increasing | :02:41. | :02:45. | |
eight times faster than wages and young people can expect to life at | :02:45. | :02:49. | |
home until they are 43 before they can afford to buy. What has been | :02:49. | :02:54. | |
your experiences of renting in London, guys? Yes. Rent in London | :02:54. | :03:00. | |
is ridiculous. It is reclick clusly high and for me, -- ridiculously | :03:00. | :03:04. | |
high and for me, I have to go out of London to get a nice house and | :03:04. | :03:07. | |
the quality of the house in London is shabby. | :03:07. | :03:10. | |
You feel you are going to have to leave. Anyone else struggling with | :03:10. | :03:16. | |
rent? It is not feasible to own or rent your own property. I'm still | :03:16. | :03:19. | |
living with my family and in terms of rent, it is very high for young | :03:19. | :03:24. | |
people to go and rent or purchase a property. | :03:24. | :03:30. | |
Yes. I've lived on my own since I was 15 and I'm 27 now and I have | :03:30. | :03:35. | |
only moved to London and it is extortionate for a room, let alone | :03:35. | :03:37. | |
like trying to get my own house or anything. | :03:37. | :03:43. | |
Too much. Yes? I feel, I rent in London and I had no idea where to | :03:43. | :03:46. | |
go, how to find a house, whether I was getting a good deal or a bad | :03:46. | :03:50. | |
deal and the fact that I have a roof over my head now is a miracle. | :03:51. | :03:55. | |
That's what I have to say. OK. The gentleman at the back here. | :03:55. | :03:59. | |
I live in Brighton and I find it hard to find a place to live. It is | :03:59. | :04:05. | |
the commuter prices. People in London, condition afford to -- | :04:05. | :04:11. | |
can't afford to live in London. They will buy up the houses there. | :04:11. | :04:14. | |
I'm finding it hard myself even living in Brighton. | :04:14. | :04:18. | |
Louise, what's your experience? I recognise you from TV. Well, you | :04:18. | :04:21. | |
would think that, but one of the things that's really important to | :04:21. | :04:25. | |
think about is, we have all established that most of us will be | :04:26. | :04:33. | |
renting until we are in our mid-40s, unless you have rich parents. | :04:33. | :04:38. | |
Something that has been addressed is the red tape and the paperwork | :04:38. | :04:43. | |
that self-employed people have to go. I have moved this year and I | :04:43. | :04:46. | |
had to go through the same checks and paperwork and stress just to | :04:46. | :04:50. | |
rent a property that my friends have done who have bought. | :04:50. | :04:54. | |
Obviously, if I my own property to rent out, I would want to make sure | :04:54. | :05:00. | |
it was protected, but to be honest, I felt like a criminal. I have | :05:00. | :05:04. | |
never felt more guilty in the six weeks these checks were performed | :05:04. | :05:08. | |
on me. Here is my DNA, what more do you want from me? I just want to | :05:08. | :05:17. | |
rent a property. APPLAUSE | :05:17. | :05:20. | |
The housing charity, Shelter, say phone calls are up 40% in the last | :05:20. | :05:22. | |
year, dealing with people struggling with housing. Who eltion | :05:22. | :05:25. | |
-- who else had rent problems? is a mainly a lot of young people | :05:25. | :05:31. | |
have to rent via Gumtree, I faced landlords giving me a legal rent | :05:31. | :05:36. | |
and turning up three days later and three weeks later, saying, "I want | :05:36. | :05:40. | |
it for my brother. I want it for my sister." You go to the police and | :05:41. | :05:46. | |
the paperwork is not value valid and when you ask them, they will | :05:46. | :05:51. | |
say, "It is Gumtree." That's criminal for a lot of young people | :05:51. | :05:55. | |
who will never see housing and never own the House of Their own. | :05:55. | :06:01. | |
The lady here? I think you are stigmatised because you have to fit | :06:01. | :06:05. | |
into a certain trat gee in order to -- certain category in order to | :06:05. | :06:09. | |
rent. As a a student that doesn't come under the criteria of having a | :06:09. | :06:12. | |
full-time job where you look stable. Even though you have the means to | :06:12. | :06:15. | |
pay for it, but because you don't look like the right person on paper, | :06:16. | :06:20. | |
even if you have the money then you are looked at a certain way as a | :06:20. | :06:23. | |
student, that you are not going to look after the property. | :06:23. | :06:27. | |
That's interesting. When we posted about this on Facebook and Twitter, | :06:27. | :06:31. | |
we got a huge response and we have spoken to Cat and Dean who have | :06:31. | :06:41. | |
:06:41. | :06:44. | ||
different experiences of how they I'm Dean. I am an apprentice motor | :06:44. | :06:49. | |
trader. Working on a building site makes me think think more about | :06:49. | :06:53. | |
houses. I live with my mum at the moment. I want to get on to the | :06:53. | :06:57. | |
housing ladder because I want to have stability when I'm older. | :06:57. | :07:04. | |
My name is Cat, I have been squatting for 12 years. I am a poet. | :07:04. | :07:09. | |
Most of the buildings that people squat in or long-term empty | :07:09. | :07:13. | |
properties. I found renting isolating. Some of my friends were | :07:13. | :07:16. | |
squatting and I decided to go and live with them because I didn't | :07:16. | :07:20. | |
know when my job was finished and if I would be able to pay the rent. | :07:20. | :07:25. | |
House prices are way too high for people of my age. It makes me think | :07:25. | :07:28. | |
that I won't get on to the housing ladder unless I had help from | :07:28. | :07:35. | |
somebody else. When you are a renting, the landlord can kick you | :07:35. | :07:40. | |
out whenever they want. I am planning to buy with my mum. | :07:40. | :07:44. | |
I get to live in places that I otherwise wouldn't get to live in. | :07:44. | :07:51. | |
There is around about 15 to 20 people who live here. It can be | :07:51. | :07:54. | |
stressful at times, it is not for everybody, but it is better than | :07:54. | :07:58. | |
trying to find �600 a month. If whoever owns the property is not in | :07:58. | :08:02. | |
a position to use it, then they should pass it over to the | :08:02. | :08:06. | |
Government to be used for social housing. I think that would bring | :08:06. | :08:16. | |
:08:16. | :08:17. | ||
down the prices for everybody else. I was was thinking your squat | :08:17. | :08:20. | |
looked nice. We didn't have water at the time. We had to collect the | :08:20. | :08:23. | |
water. You have a question. What is it? | :08:23. | :08:26. | |
you can't afford to live in London, should you move out? | :08:26. | :08:34. | |
OK. Let's go down to our panel. I will start with you ra you Raheen, | :08:34. | :08:38. | |
you will have 30 seconds and I am going to time it. Go! I have lived | :08:39. | :08:44. | |
in London all my life, but I don't figure it is a right that I get to | :08:44. | :08:46. | |
live in London. If my financial situation continues the way it is, | :08:46. | :08:50. | |
I will have to think of moving further out or outside London. When | :08:50. | :08:57. | |
I grad graduated, I moved down the road here and I got a really cheap, | :08:57. | :09:00. | |
box room. I don't believe we should be looking to cram ourselves this | :09:00. | :09:04. | |
London. We have got wonderful cities in this country and | :09:04. | :09:07. | |
employers are putting jobs there and we should be looking elsewhere | :09:07. | :09:12. | |
in this country. Very good time wise. Very good. | :09:12. | :09:16. | |
APPLAUSE David. I think quite a lot of young | :09:16. | :09:19. | |
people have to live in London because this is where the jobs are. | :09:19. | :09:29. | |
:09:29. | :09:40. | ||
The point is... APPLAUSE | :09:40. | :09:43. | |
And there is no choice so the point is that we have got to have fair | :09:43. | :09:45. | |
rents because people are renting houses that are actually horrible | :09:45. | :09:48. | |
and flats that are horrible and they are paying over the odds so we | :09:48. | :09:51. | |
need some kind of rent control or fair fair rents like in Germany. We | :09:51. | :09:54. | |
have to build more houses. We have got to regulate landlords and | :09:54. | :09:55. | |
regulate letting agents who are charging extortionate fees for just | :09:55. | :09:56. | |
turning up. APPLAUSE | :09:56. | :09:58. | |
Is regulation something that would help? Is rent control something | :09:58. | :10:02. | |
that would help? Yes, the guy at the back here. It is a good idea, | :10:02. | :10:06. | |
but how would you go about regulating or legislating it? How | :10:06. | :10:10. | |
much money would that cost in getting the jobs, it might create | :10:10. | :10:13. | |
jobs having people do this, but how much money would it cost to | :10:13. | :10:18. | |
regulate? I would like to see it done because then I I could afford | :10:18. | :10:22. | |
to get a place of my own, perhaps, but I don't think it would be cost | :10:22. | :10:25. | |
effective. Yes, the gentleman here. | :10:25. | :10:31. | |
I am doing an apprenticeship in an estate agents. Rent ago property is | :10:31. | :10:35. | |
a business, it is d renting a property is a business, it is about | :10:35. | :10:39. | |
making money. Houses in London are highly sought after, if the demand | :10:39. | :10:42. | |
is increasing, surely the price will increase as well. | :10:42. | :10:50. | |
It makes sense. Let's speak to Cat. I believe housing is a Hythe, it is | :10:50. | :10:55. | |
about -- it is a human right. It is about homes. | :10:55. | :10:58. | |
If you agree or disagree with anything that you are hearing or | :10:58. | :11:04. | |
that has just been said, let Tina know. | :11:04. | :11:10. | |
Yes, please get in touch. James, you would probably get on with | :11:10. | :11:20. | |
:11:20. | :11:22. | ||
Raheem who says, "stop winging about rent. The State can't solve | :11:22. | :11:28. | |
anything." What if you can't afford not to live in London? Is it | :11:28. | :11:35. | |
discrimination on income grounds? Charlotte? If we didn't have enough | :11:35. | :11:40. | |
housing, the price wouldn't be so high. We are doing really well, but | :11:40. | :11:46. | |
it is tricky and we are loosening up planning regulations so we can | :11:46. | :11:52. | |
do more: You are not doing well?It is a massive problem. Regulation | :11:52. | :11:58. | |
sounds lies, but if you have a -- regular regulation sounds nice. I | :11:58. | :12:02. | |
think helping first-time buyers on to the housing market is good. But | :12:02. | :12:07. | |
I mean, I think we have had experiences of living in shoe boxes | :12:07. | :12:11. | |
in in London and it is grim, our parents generation had it good and | :12:11. | :12:15. | |
we are suffering because of a baby boom generation. It is not anyone's | :12:15. | :12:21. | |
fault, but a baby boom generation to sapped up the property. | :12:21. | :12:27. | |
Sara, how do you feel about housing in London? I will tell you about me, | :12:27. | :12:35. | |
but so I grew up in Essex and I I moved out at 18 and I lived in | :12:35. | :12:41. | |
Leytonstone and I went to university and lived in in halls. I | :12:41. | :12:45. | |
never really questioned whether that was right, it is scwust what I | :12:45. | :12:52. | |
had -- just what I had to do. Now I live in Tooting. It is a fantastic | :12:52. | :12:57. | |
area that's really cheap if you don't mind being on the overground. | :12:57. | :13:02. | |
Tooting is up and coming. I don't think I over pay my rent for what I | :13:03. | :13:05. | |
have got in terms of London, but again, I don't question because it | :13:05. | :13:09. | |
is London that I deserve anymore than that. I just, I am grateful to | :13:09. | :13:15. | |
be here and also, housing outside of the city, if you said to me, it | :13:15. | :13:18. | |
would be half the rent and you would be in Nottingham. I wouldn't | :13:18. | :13:24. | |
go. I would rather be here. This is where I have grown-up and it is | :13:24. | :13:31. | |
about maybe, the creative ways of working out out what are we going | :13:31. | :13:35. | |
to do about that? Some people don't want to live with strangers and | :13:35. | :13:41. | |
houses have to be, not have mice and have running water and it is | :13:41. | :13:44. | |
hork when people -- horrible when people are suffering because of the | :13:44. | :13:54. | |
:13:54. | :13:56. | ||
place they are living in. You say you can't imaginically | :13:56. | :14:03. | |
produce produce Magically houses, we can build them. | :14:03. | :14:11. | |
Let's fire up the power bar. David, you are in the lead so far. | :14:11. | :14:21. | |
:14:21. | :14:33. | ||
really struggling, giving up the hope of ever being able to buy their | :14:34. | :14:38. | |
own home here. Fundamentally, this is an issue of lack of supply. We | :14:38. | :14:41. | |
are not building enough homes. We haven't been for many years. Until | :14:41. | :14:45. | |
we sort that out, prices will continue to go up. We need to get | :14:45. | :14:50. | |
building in London. Who else thinks we need to get building in London? | :14:50. | :14:59. | |
Where is Rob? I think this is an argument for uncontrolled mass | :14:59. | :15:04. | |
immigration. We should be looking after British youths. There is a | :15:04. | :15:08. | |
shortage of houses, especially in London. It is about supply and | :15:08. | :15:13. | |
demand. We have a big demand at the moment. In January, it could get. | :15:13. | :15:19. | |
There is a potential for it to get a lot. We need to ensure the supply is | :15:19. | :15:24. | |
there for the British youths before we open the borders to Eastern | :15:24. | :15:33. | |
Europeans. OK. Josh? How would you respond to that? It is true, from a | :15:33. | :15:37. | |
Lib Dem perspective, we do need to build more social housing. If you | :15:37. | :15:41. | |
look at local authorities, the Lib Dems have a much better record than | :15:41. | :15:45. | |
the Tories and Labour on building social housing. The percentage of | :15:45. | :15:50. | |
the housing stock goes up under Lib Dem councils. We need to look at | :15:50. | :15:56. | |
other ways to make sure low earners can access this housing. I welcome | :15:56. | :16:01. | |
the fact that Lib Dem policy like low erring income tax for basic | :16:01. | :16:06. | |
ratepayers is ensuring over 20 million people is getting a �700 tax | :16:06. | :16:10. | |
cut. That allows them to keep the money they have worked really hard | :16:10. | :16:20. | |
:16:20. | :16:21. | ||
to earn. Little things like that can help people. OK. I'm speaking up for | :16:21. | :16:26. | |
people at home! Chris, he says, "I will be moving to London in | :16:26. | :16:34. | |
September for uni. Half my money will be going on my room! It is | :16:34. | :16:39. | |
ridiculous!" Who else feels like they are spending over 50% of their | :16:39. | :16:46. | |
income on rent at the moment? I am. As a student, I'm paying a lot | :16:46. | :16:50. | |
more for my rent in comparison, it is over 30% of what I'm getting. In | :16:50. | :16:54. | |
terms of students - because the Government knows what we are | :16:54. | :17:04. | |
:17:04. | :17:05. | ||
entitled to - our rent should be cheaper. Yes? I would like to talk | :17:05. | :17:14. | |
about the same thing Chris raised at home. I moved here from my first | :17:14. | :17:18. | |
year and the halls costs are ridiculous. I'm fortunate that I | :17:18. | :17:21. | |
managed to get a job and cover some of that. A lot of people are finding | :17:21. | :17:31. | |
it very difficult to move to London and pay so much for rent. OK. The | :17:31. | :17:36. | |
lady at the back? Maybe the answer is to raise the rent in London? And | :17:36. | :17:41. | |
raise the wage in London. That can't be the answer! Sorry, you were | :17:41. | :17:46. | |
saying...? To raise the wage in London. Just in London? OK. This | :17:46. | :17:51. | |
gentleman here? We have seen a worrying demographic shift in | :17:51. | :17:56. | |
London. Poor people are being priced out. It is like a class-based city | :17:56. | :18:01. | |
and it is only for Conservative voters and the Conservative Party | :18:01. | :18:04. | |
are only too willing to cut housing benefit to make this happen because | :18:04. | :18:08. | |
there are so many constituencies in London. David Lammy, I would be | :18:08. | :18:11. | |
worried about what the Conservatives are doing. You have to fight against | :18:11. | :18:17. | |
it and help poor people in this country. Are you worried, David? | :18:17. | :18:22. | |
Well, I spent most of the last week speaking out against the housing | :18:22. | :18:27. | |
benefit cap. In a sense, people are receiving that housing benefit | :18:27. | :18:31. | |
because of high rents. The money is going to landlords. The fair rents | :18:31. | :18:37. | |
that I argued for are happening in Germany where rents are linked to | :18:37. | :18:41. | |
inflation, index-related and where there are much longer tenancies. | :18:41. | :18:44. | |
Your landlord can come and take your rent up every two months at the | :18:44. | :18:48. | |
moment. In Germany, people have five-year tenancies so they can plan | :18:48. | :18:52. | |
over a year, two, three, four, five, they know how much the rent is going | :18:52. | :19:01. | |
up. We need that system over here. One quarter of housing benefit | :19:01. | :19:08. | |
claimants are in employment. Tina? James is making this point. "We need | :19:08. | :19:15. | |
to build more houses. How about some new towns in the London commuter | :19:15. | :19:20. | |
area?" This person, "Building more houses would create more jobs and | :19:20. | :19:25. | |
homes but potential future problems." "Public transport is a | :19:25. | :19:30. | |
key issue. Moving outside of London means paying large amounts on | :19:30. | :19:33. | |
travel." If you want your point of view read out, you have to make it | :19:33. | :19:43. | |
:19:43. | :19:48. | ||
first. Get in touch. Head to Facebook.com/BBCFreeSpeech. Now we | :19:48. | :19:51. | |
are going to move on to the minimum wage. The Business Secretary has | :19:51. | :19:58. | |
announced it is going up. Good news. But how good? Anyone here that works | :19:58. | :20:01. | |
or has worked for minimum wage? A few of you have. Do you know how | :20:01. | :20:08. | |
much it is going to go up to in October? Not enough is maybe right! | :20:08. | :20:17. | |
12 pence for over 21s, 3 pence if you are an apprentice. Yvonne has a | :20:17. | :20:20. | |
question. My question is why can't minimum wage be abolished | :20:21. | :20:27. | |
altogether? We should be paid according to service. Let's go to | :20:27. | :20:30. | |
David. I will do the 30 seconds on the clock for you. 30 seconds to | :20:30. | :20:37. | |
respond. The Labour Party fought hard to get a National Minimum Wage. | :20:37. | :20:42. | |
People were being exploited and ripped off, paid 50p, �1 an hour | :20:42. | :20:47. | |
before that. We should defend it. We now need to move on to having a | :20:47. | :20:55. | |
living wage. This is not the time... Ten seconds? This is not the time to | :20:55. | :20:59. | |
go backwards. Frankly, those that think that somehow this has been | :20:59. | :21:03. | |
inflationary are wrong. The National Minimum Wage is being copied around | :21:03. | :21:10. | |
the world. Stop. Thank you, David. Raheem? Do you agree? No. I don't | :21:10. | :21:13. | |
care what the Labour Party fought for. I don't care what any political | :21:13. | :21:17. | |
party fought for. This is an issue about people. The minimum wage - it | :21:17. | :21:24. | |
is a false economy. It pushes up pricing and it makes employers cut | :21:24. | :21:26. | |
the number of people they can employ. When I was working in a | :21:26. | :21:29. | |
retail store at university, they raised the minimum wage. What did my | :21:29. | :21:32. | |
employer do? He cut half the staff in the shop and the prices went up. | :21:33. | :21:36. | |
The punters couldn't afford the products and the business had to | :21:36. | :21:40. | |
slash further. It does not make sense to have a minimum wage. It is | :21:40. | :21:44. | |
discriminatory. It tells you that you cannot decide for yourself what | :21:44. | :21:48. | |
your services are worth. This is you, this is your labour, you decide | :21:48. | :21:51. | |
what it is worth and you go out there and market yourself. A | :21:51. | :21:58. | |
Government telling you what to do is so patronising. David? He is arguing | :21:58. | :22:02. | |
to go back to the 18th Century when working-class people were exploited | :22:02. | :22:10. | |
in this country. Two opposing views. Is that getting people going? | :22:10. | :22:17. | |
Paul says, "Abolished - all it's done is push prices up for | :22:17. | :22:27. | |
:22:27. | :22:28. | ||
everyone." Sara? I find discussing it really scary. I think that it's | :22:28. | :22:32. | |
the vulnerable people that would suffer at this. The only thing I do | :22:32. | :22:36. | |
think that could happen is if there was a sliding scale within | :22:36. | :22:40. | |
businesses, so some people's minimum wage - if you were a successful | :22:41. | :22:44. | |
nightclub, your minimum wage would be less than a country pub where you | :22:44. | :22:48. | |
have two members of staff and you serve six people all evening. It | :22:48. | :22:51. | |
doesn't go any lower than it is now. All that happens is that really | :22:51. | :22:55. | |
vulnerable people, the people that clean, the people that work in bars, | :22:55. | :23:00. | |
they will end up working 14 or 15-hour shifts to make the same | :23:00. | :23:08. | |
money that is disgraceful now. I find it discussing it really -- I | :23:08. | :23:12. | |
find discussing it really worrying. This gentleman? Bankers have | :23:12. | :23:18. | |
exploited all of us in the last few years, so we should have a National | :23:18. | :23:23. | |
Maximum Wage in my opinion. Interesting. This gentleman? Living | :23:23. | :23:28. | |
wage has been introduced in the City Council of Leicester. My opinion | :23:28. | :23:33. | |
about the minimum wage, it should be kept. There ought to be a balance so | :23:33. | :23:37. | |
that people don't get fired from their jobs. There's a possibility of | :23:37. | :23:43. | |
being a balance between jobs, taxes, housing benefit, pretty much | :23:43. | :23:49. | |
everything should be a balance so that you move forward, the business | :23:49. | :23:53. | |
can grow. But the economy is more stable. Is it possible to maintain | :23:53. | :23:57. | |
that balance, Charlotte? I think the word is "balance". When I was | :23:57. | :24:01. | |
working on a minimum wage and I was mopping up pub floors, if someone | :24:01. | :24:06. | |
had said, "Do you want a rise in the minimum wage?" I would have said, | :24:06. | :24:10. | |
"Yes, please." It is always a balance. You do have to protect | :24:10. | :24:14. | |
people. There are some ruthless employers out there. You don't want | :24:14. | :24:17. | |
a living wage that is so high that people have to let people go. It is | :24:17. | :24:24. | |
a balance. Sometimes, it is a difficult one. I think raising it - | :24:24. | :24:27. | |
inflation is rising, living standards are getting higher. | :24:27. | :24:31. | |
Raising it is probably the right thing to do. OK. This gentleman | :24:31. | :24:37. | |
here? You would like to talk about discrimination, but the people on | :24:37. | :24:45. | |
unpaid internships are being discriminated where we don't pay | :24:45. | :24:50. | |
them anything for working. If there was no minimum wage, those people | :24:50. | :24:53. | |
could be employed at a level that their skills are worth. At the | :24:53. | :24:58. | |
moment, they are getting nothing. David? I think there is an issue | :24:58. | :25:02. | |
with internships. It depends on - there is a difference between | :25:02. | :25:07. | |
probably a 15 or 16-year-old spending a couple of weeks working, | :25:07. | :25:11. | |
an 18-year-old, someone who is at university doing a sabbatical year, | :25:11. | :25:16. | |
so you have to look in a lot of detail as to what the internship is, | :25:16. | :25:20. | |
and whether it is work experience, voluntary, or a job, but graduates | :25:20. | :25:25. | |
should be paid for a job of work. The reason this happens - I'm asking | :25:25. | :25:28. | |
because I don't understand - internships, if you are not paid, is | :25:28. | :25:35. | |
that because they are seen as education and not work? They can be | :25:35. | :25:39. | |
voluntary. It is such a grey area. There is no guarantee after you have | :25:39. | :25:48. | |
worked for free that you get that job? No.It is like acting! You are | :25:48. | :25:52. | |
the youngest member of the Corporation of London. What is your | :25:52. | :25:56. | |
feeling about minimum wages? I think abolishing minimum wage would lead | :25:56. | :26:00. | |
to exploitation. I think the whole argument here is finding a balance | :26:00. | :26:04. | |
between the two. In order to find the balance, we need to discuss the | :26:04. | :26:07. | |
main issue which is getting our young people back into employment in | :26:07. | :26:15. | |
the first place to pay them a wage. Is there anyone here who feels the | :26:15. | :26:22. | |
minimum wage has no particular effect? Yes? Obviously, it has an | :26:22. | :26:30. | |
affect on people. I believe that when you go to work, you know, the | :26:30. | :26:35. | |
way the minimum wage sort of restricts people and puts you in a | :26:35. | :26:39. | |
category. Nurses get paid for instance ridiculously less than the | :26:40. | :26:44. | |
banking elite and the people who control our country. And how the | :26:44. | :26:49. | |
workers have to pay for people like David Cameron's rent and your rent, | :26:49. | :26:55. | |
Sir. And the money comes, it seems it is twisted in the way the | :26:55. | :26:58. | |
capitalist system, how it is working, it means a lot of people, | :26:58. | :27:03. | |
in a rich country like Britain, are living in poverty and can't eat and | :27:03. | :27:06. | |
can't afford to survive. Something is going incredibly wrong here, you | :27:06. | :27:09. | |
know. People are going to the storehouse and not being able to | :27:09. | :27:16. | |
eat. The Queen has �27 trillion, she is Queen of England, and people are | :27:16. | :27:24. | |
starving on the streets. Yes? think, essentially, all this the | :27:24. | :27:28. | |
increases in the minimum wage are just lip service. If you are upping | :27:28. | :27:36. | |
it by 13p, that doesn't address the issue. The majority of jobs that are | :27:36. | :27:40. | |
available are quite temporary. It doesn't matter if you are adding 13p | :27:40. | :27:45. | |
extra an hour to somebody who is only able to get 20 hours a week. | :27:45. | :27:48. | |
This is affecting the people who are struggling to find whatever work | :27:48. | :27:56. | |
there is. OK. Yes? The question was should the minimum wage be | :27:56. | :28:03. | |
abolished? When I was 17, I had two job offers. One offered to pay me | :28:03. | :28:10. | |
the minimum wage. It was quite obvious which one to go for - I went | :28:10. | :28:17. | |
for the �6.19. That makes a big difference. By abolishing it, you | :28:17. | :28:22. | |
allow employers to give ridiculous amount, like �3, 50p an hour, even. | :28:22. | :28:28. | |
It is a good idea to keep it as it is. Who feels like you are going to | :28:28. | :28:32. | |
get taken advantage of the you abolish the minimum wage? If you are | :28:32. | :28:35. | |
do the same job as someone that is older than you, but you get paid a | :28:35. | :28:40. | |
different amount, you are doing the same job, so why should you get paid | :28:40. | :28:49. | |
less? You think - you don't value experience in that respect? | :28:49. | :28:52. | |
should be the same age. All ages should get paid the same amount. | :28:52. | :28:57. | |
Yes? I agree. As a younger person, you are a lot fitter, you have more | :28:57. | :29:02. | |
energy, you are a lot more able to do more things so it is unfair to | :29:02. | :29:06. | |
pay a young person less and an older person more when they are least | :29:06. | :29:13. | |
likely to be pro active. OK. This lady? The minimum wage is necessary. | :29:13. | :29:16. | |
It brings an element of equality so nobody will get exploited. The | :29:16. | :29:21. | |
Government are too corrupt. They need to bring some support to young | :29:21. | :29:27. | |
people here who are struggling. The cost-of-living is going up. Salaries | :29:27. | :29:33. | |
and incomes are going up so slowly that people are struggling. People | :29:33. | :29:36. | |
will turn to crime and they will moan again when the next riots | :29:36. | :29:40. | |
happen. People are hungry. Tina, are the people online echoing what we | :29:40. | :29:50. | |
:29:50. | :29:58. | ||
Lots of people using the word exploitation. | :29:58. | :30:08. | |
:30:08. | :30:13. | ||
And then this one says, "We need a maximum wage." | :30:13. | :30:15. | |
APPLAUSE It is a good time to get a power | :30:15. | :30:18. | |
bar update to see if anything has changed. Raheem, you have slipped | :30:18. | :30:21. | |
back a bit. It was probably your comments about the minimum wage. | :30:21. | :30:28. | |
You can influence the tower bar. Get on -- power bar. Get on Twitter. | :30:28. | :30:38. | |
:30:38. | :30:38. | ||
If you agree with Raheem, it is: For David, it is: | :30:38. | :30:48. | |
For Charlotte, it is. For Sara, it is: | :30:48. | :30:51. | |
Make your voice heard on Free Speech. | :30:51. | :30:56. | |
Tuition fees and debt is a huge issue for many of you. Figures show | :30:56. | :31:01. | |
that 19% of graduates will be unemployed and and 36% will be in | :31:01. | :31:06. | |
low skilled jobs. This is what Suli Brakes has to say. | :31:06. | :31:10. | |
So you want to get a degree? Why? | :31:10. | :31:15. | |
Let me tell whau society will tell -- you what society will tell you. | :31:15. | :31:18. | |
It increases your chances of getting a job. Your life will be | :31:18. | :31:24. | |
less stressful. Education is the key. Now let me tell you what your | :31:24. | :31:28. | |
parents will tell you. Make me proud. Increases your chances of | :31:28. | :31:31. | |
getting a job. Provides you with an opportunity to be successfulment | :31:31. | :31:37. | |
your life will be less stressful. Education is the key. Now, let's | :31:37. | :31:47. | |
look at the statistics. Stephen Jobs, net worth �7 billion. RIP. | :31:47. | :31:54. | |
Richard Bronson, net worth �4.2 billion. Oprah Winfrey, net worth | :31:54. | :32:01. | |
�2.7 billion. Stephen Spielberg and and Bill Gates, looking at these | :32:01. | :32:10. | |
individuals, what is your conclusion? Neither of them have | :32:10. | :32:15. | |
graduated from a higher learning It is interesting stuff. Cherry, | :32:15. | :32:21. | |
you have got a question. Because of the increase in tuition fees and a | :32:21. | :32:26. | |
shortage of graduate jobs, do you think it is better to go into | :32:26. | :32:30. | |
apprenticeships? 30 second for Charlotte, starting now? | :32:30. | :32:34. | |
sensible thing to do is to go into a degree or an apprenticeship if it | :32:34. | :32:38. | |
is the right thing for you. We have been dishonest with young people | :32:38. | :32:45. | |
about what their degree is going to lead them to. A lot of employers | :32:45. | :32:48. | |
say they would be better off doing the real thing and not writing | :32:48. | :32:53. | |
about it. And And doing an apprenticeship is just as good as | :32:53. | :32:58. | |
doing an academic course and when we get that right, people get their | :32:58. | :33:02. | |
futures right. David, what do you think about | :33:02. | :33:06. | |
apprenticeships and their value? There is a lot of hype about | :33:06. | :33:11. | |
apprenticeships, but you have got to look behind it. The majority of | :33:11. | :33:15. | |
apprenticeships are in retail and admin. They are not actually in | :33:15. | :33:19. | |
quality professions and technical skills that people want. I worked | :33:19. | :33:27. | |
in McDonald's. I worked at Kentucky Fried Chicken. Please don't call | :33:27. | :33:31. | |
that an apprenticeship. So there is a lot of changes that need to be | :33:31. | :33:34. | |
made for apprenticeships. The majority of the increase in | :33:34. | :33:38. | |
apprenticeships is over 35s. It is not actually young people doing | :33:38. | :33:42. | |
those jobs. The work programme is not working, the youth contract is | :33:42. | :33:47. | |
not working. Young people in this country are unemployed. The hype | :33:47. | :33:50. | |
about apprenticeships is is spin. Of course, university is worth it, | :33:50. | :33:54. | |
but you have to look closely at the university and the course. That is | :33:54. | :34:02. | |
the truth and for some people, �9,000 for some of those courses is | :34:02. | :34:12. | |
:34:12. | :34:38. | ||
not worth it. APPLAUSE | :34:38. | :34:41. | |
As a disabled person, I find even though I have got the academic | :34:41. | :34:44. | |
criter criteria to go to the best university in London, I feel my | :34:44. | :34:46. | |
disability has limited my access to those universities because the | :34:46. | :34:48. | |
funding and the loans that I get from universities are not enough | :34:48. | :34:51. | |
and I am having to go to other sources and beg them, plead, for | :34:51. | :34:54. | |
money just so I can go to those universities, just so I can access | :34:54. | :34:57. | |
what I need to and it is so much stress and I have reached points | :34:57. | :35:00. | |
where I thought, "It is not worth it." I think it maybe better for me | :35:00. | :35:02. | |
to go in an internship because it is stress-free. | :35:02. | :35:04. | |
Who else feels the cost of university is so great? I believe | :35:04. | :35:06. | |
that it is crucial to go into higher education, to maximise your | :35:07. | :35:09. | |
chances of being successful. But when the political party promises | :35:09. | :35:12. | |
to lower or keep the twu wirks fee -- tuition fees low, and they don't, | :35:12. | :35:14. | |
who can we trust with our futures? Who feels that university, you | :35:14. | :35:19. | |
don't need it? Is there anyone here? To be honest, I think what | :35:19. | :35:23. | |
the topics we are talking about is on survival and I think it is | :35:23. | :35:26. | |
important that people they should go to university and learn how to, | :35:26. | :35:30. | |
you know, not even go to university, but they should learn how to | :35:30. | :35:35. | |
survive and grow their own food. There wouldn't be a problem if | :35:35. | :35:37. | |
everyone was growing food in their own back garden. That is not being | :35:37. | :35:44. | |
advertised. You get McDonald's, MSG, but that's going to kill you. All | :35:44. | :35:48. | |
the big corporations are trying to poison us when we should be trying | :35:48. | :35:52. | |
to grow our own food and survive of our own backs. | :35:52. | :36:02. | |
:36:02. | :36:04. | ||
They are not deliberately trying to poison us, I don't think. | :36:04. | :36:13. | |
They are trying to kill us. We can have a great chat afterwards. | :36:13. | :36:16. | |
I disagree with what the gentleman said over there saying that | :36:16. | :36:19. | |
education or higher education equals success. I think there is a | :36:19. | :36:25. | |
big smoke screen and we have been indock trind from young. I come | :36:25. | :36:29. | |
from a very academic background and I love education and it was the | :36:29. | :36:32. | |
next thing. You had to do university. I never stopped to | :36:32. | :36:37. | |
assess my own life and see what career I want to do and I really do, | :36:37. | :36:39. | |
in hindsight respect the young students that stepped out of | :36:39. | :36:44. | |
college and really looked at their own life and thought thought, "No, | :36:44. | :36:47. | |
I don't want to go to university yet." This they want to go to | :36:47. | :36:52. | |
university and become a doctor, go for it. However, real life skills | :36:52. | :36:56. | |
to network or what not or speak to people and communicate and learn | :36:56. | :36:59. | |
from each other, it is something you can learn from every day life. | :36:59. | :37:04. | |
You don't need a letter to say, "I have got a degree and I can survive | :37:04. | :37:09. | |
with it.". This gentleman. You mentioned you were doing an | :37:09. | :37:19. | |
apprenticeship at an estate agent. Do you feel you messed up? I just | :37:19. | :37:25. | |
cancelled a contract in a football club. Me personally, I feel that | :37:25. | :37:30. | |
experience is far more valuable than any qualification because it | :37:30. | :37:33. | |
is proving that you can do the job well. | :37:33. | :37:37. | |
Yes? What I found worrying and sad about what everyone is saying | :37:37. | :37:42. | |
tonight, we are not talking about dreams or aspirations, everyone is | :37:42. | :37:45. | |
talking about survival. Whilst, I don't agree with this lovely lad | :37:45. | :37:49. | |
here, it is about survival. We are not talking about in ten years, I | :37:49. | :37:54. | |
want to be earning X and I want to have my own business and own a | :37:54. | :37:59. | |
property, it is about how we get through the next six months and I | :37:59. | :38:01. | |
feel this generation is being robbed. | :38:01. | :38:07. | |
Yes. I don't study the big big things, but I did musical theatre | :38:07. | :38:11. | |
and for me, it is about taking a gamble and I didn't do, I did | :38:11. | :38:16. | |
college, but I didn't want to pay nine grand. You will you need is | :38:16. | :38:20. | |
one lucky break and I have had a few over the years, but it is not | :38:20. | :38:23. | |
about going into further education and about the right time, the right | :38:23. | :38:26. | |
place. I would say it is about what is | :38:26. | :38:29. | |
right for you and parents and schools need to give young people a | :38:29. | :38:34. | |
dose of reality, this talk about it you get a degree, you will get a | :38:34. | :38:40. | |
good job, it is not guaranteed. I don't have a degree, I am the only | :38:40. | :38:45. | |
person person in my family. I have been working since I was 16 and I | :38:45. | :38:50. | |
have had my own business, I am doing OK, like work wise. I am in a | :38:50. | :38:54. | |
senior position with no degree and they are saying my experience is | :38:54. | :38:57. | |
invaluable. That's the most valuable thing to an employer. Let | :38:57. | :39:01. | |
people know that a degree is not going to get you through that | :39:01. | :39:05. | |
doorment you need to do what is right for you. Don't be pressured | :39:05. | :39:08. | |
by your parents or peers. Find yourself and do what is right for | :39:08. | :39:12. | |
you. . Yes, sir in the glasses? From the | :39:12. | :39:16. | |
other side, it has become fashionable to bash degrees. There | :39:16. | :39:22. | |
are a lot of people that want to go and out and carry on learning and | :39:22. | :39:25. | |
carry on educating themselves and there is nothing wrong with going | :39:25. | :39:31. | |
to an apprenticeship. I don't know why why suddenly people are up in | :39:31. | :39:35. | |
arms about degrees. The gentleman here. | :39:35. | :39:39. | |
When people decided that 50% of young people have to go to | :39:39. | :39:43. | |
university, it made everything else much less valuable. Yes, some | :39:43. | :39:48. | |
degrees are important, doctors, you need that quality of education, but | :39:48. | :39:52. | |
apprenticeships should be the main way. Our secondary education system | :39:52. | :39:55. | |
is flawed. Because it says you must be academic or you have failed. | :39:55. | :39:59. | |
Technical schools and colleges are the way we need to focus because | :39:59. | :40:09. | |
:40:09. | :40:09. | ||
some people aren't academic and that doesn't make them bad people. | :40:09. | :40:14. | |
A degree is not for everyone. It was damaging when the Tony Blair | :40:14. | :40:17. | |
Government said 50% of all youngsters should be going to | :40:17. | :40:20. | |
universities. I went to university. I fell pressure to go to university | :40:20. | :40:23. | |
from my parents, from the school and I wasn't a particularly, you | :40:23. | :40:27. | |
know, the type of person who would be good at hitting the books. I | :40:27. | :40:30. | |
feel like I lost out in that time. I have just started a company | :40:30. | :40:36. | |
myself trying to be self-employed on how to file tax returns on how | :40:36. | :40:40. | |
to do company accounts. Learning real life, real world skills. It | :40:40. | :40:44. | |
wasn't for me and I bet you, it is not for a lot of people. We are | :40:44. | :40:47. | |
trying to pressure so many people to go to university when they don't | :40:47. | :40:53. | |
want to, they are not cut out for it and we do better if we taught | :40:53. | :40:56. | |
them the skills to go out in the workplace and become the Richard | :40:56. | :41:01. | |
Branson's of the world. You went to university, Sara? | :41:02. | :41:08. | |
I am a terrible example to young people. I worked for two years. I | :41:08. | :41:12. | |
had no money. I was working in Nottingham for �100 and I was so | :41:12. | :41:22. | |
:41:22. | :41:26. | ||
far over my overdraft, the only way was to go to university. I did an | :41:26. | :41:30. | |
English degree and it was the first generation, I had a single parent | :41:30. | :41:34. | |
family from Romford and Dagenham and I never thought I would earn | :41:34. | :41:38. | |
over 0 grand and they -- 20 grand and they said if you earn over 20 | :41:39. | :41:45. | |
grand and after ten years it goes away and I was like "brilliant." I | :41:45. | :41:51. | |
know it is a lot more now, but do you know what? I earn, I only | :41:51. | :41:56. | |
started paying off my student student loan and that degree is no | :41:56. | :42:01. | |
use for any job unless you want to be an English teacher. It smashed | :42:01. | :42:06. | |
my mind open. It made me want to learn about things and be part of | :42:06. | :42:09. | |
the community and that's why I am proud to pay for it. | :42:09. | :42:19. | |
:42:19. | :42:23. | ||
An interesting prospective. Tina? Steve Steve Jobs and and Alan | :42:23. | :42:28. | |
Sugar succeeded. How can you expect young people to survive on �2 an | :42:28. | :42:33. | |
hour, pay them a minimum age and bring in a living wage as well. | :42:33. | :42:37. | |
Damien says, "Go to university and read a degree if it makes you happy | :42:38. | :42:43. | |
and if it is what you want to do." It is about making you happy. Good | :42:43. | :42:47. | |
time to have a look at the power bar to see if anything changed. | :42:47. | :42:50. | |
David, you are still in the lead. Very popular. At home with the | :42:50. | :42:56. | |
online audience, but Sara is close behind you! | :42:56. | :42:59. | |
Oh, yes, David. The FA announced this afternoon | :42:59. | :43:03. | |
that Luis Suarez has received a ten match ban for biting Branislav | :43:03. | :43:13. | |
:43:13. | :43:15. | ||
Ivanovic on the arm. It is a longer ban than he received for racially | :43:15. | :43:25. | |
:43:25. | :43:30. | ||
abusing patries Patrice Evra. boyfriend says I talk about | :43:30. | :43:33. | |
football like a Daly Mail talks about immigration. Just repeating | :43:33. | :43:39. | |
things I have heard, passionately, but with no knowledge! My thing on | :43:39. | :43:45. | |
this, I have got an A-level in law and so I think, so I read something | :43:45. | :43:49. | |
like this in the papers and it says a man bit another man and that | :43:49. | :43:52. | |
should be, people should be protected whether they are at work. | :43:52. | :43:58. | |
I do stand-up and if someone heckles me, I am not allowed to hit | :43:58. | :44:02. | |
them. People complain about the amount of matches he is doing, he | :44:02. | :44:06. | |
should go to prison. Sorry Liverpool FC. | :44:06. | :44:10. | |
I don't think prison is on the cards. Raheem? Ten matches is a | :44:10. | :44:17. | |
short amount of time. He has got form. He was banned by the Dutch FA | :44:17. | :44:22. | |
for doing the same thing. He is not a great role model. The FA has a | :44:22. | :44:25. | |
responsibility to make sure this guy is a role model for young | :44:25. | :44:29. | |
people. I don't want to see people biting each other in the playground. | :44:29. | :44:34. | |
This guy should be made to clean up the stadium after each after each | :44:34. | :44:39. | |
of the ten games that he is not allowed to play in. He needs to | :44:39. | :44:44. | |
learn that he can't behave like an animal on the pitch and get away. | :44:44. | :44:51. | |
He needs to feel like this hits him in the pocket. He should be given | :44:51. | :44:54. | |
therapy. If he was a bus driver and he bit someone, you don't like your | :44:54. | :44:57. | |
help. Someone needs to help you you. | :44:57. | :45:01. | |
He is going to do anger management classes, I believe. | :45:01. | :45:08. | |
You played football, what's your I think it is passion that hasn't | :45:08. | :45:14. | |
been controlled properly. It shows his passion in want to go win, but | :45:14. | :45:24. | |
:45:24. | :45:36. | ||
he has to be punish whether he is a millions of lives. We are not | :45:36. | :45:40. | |
talking about that. What we are talking about at the moment is | :45:40. | :45:45. | |
Suarez. You, at the back? You would get fired for biting someone in any | :45:45. | :45:52. | |
other job. It is just about you bit somebody at work - fire him! Yes? | :45:52. | :45:58. | |
The way the FA has dealt with it has been the worst part. Giving a lower | :45:58. | :46:06. | |
ban than for racism. It seems like they are saying, "Say no to rabies!" | :46:06. | :46:10. | |
Catchy(!) Yes? It is because the FA know they can get away with it. The | :46:10. | :46:16. | |
more, the higher company you work for, the more money you earn. It | :46:16. | :46:21. | |
seems like it is less regulated for what you can do. If they can get | :46:21. | :46:27. | |
away with banning him for ten matches, they will do that. If it | :46:27. | :46:30. | |
swuz someone, not in a higher company, the consequences would be | :46:30. | :46:35. | |
tough. Are we furious because he earns so much money? Is that the | :46:35. | :46:39. | |
thing? I think, like the gentleman there said, we shouldn't be talking | :46:39. | :46:48. | |
about it. We are.I know. We are. So let's move on. My point is... | :46:48. | :46:54. | |
Footballers are role models for young people - they are not. We | :46:54. | :46:57. | |
shouldn't expect that footballers have a moral obligation to behave on | :46:57. | :47:00. | |
the pitch because children are watching them. They are playing and, | :47:00. | :47:05. | |
in the heat of the moment, they might bite someone. What he did, the | :47:05. | :47:09. | |
punishment he got for it, we should be questioning why the Football | :47:09. | :47:12. | |
Association take less of a stance on racism and more of a stance on | :47:12. | :47:19. | |
someone biting. That is ludicrous. Yes, the hand up there? Whether it | :47:19. | :47:27. | |
is racism or biting, footballers are role models. If they are - | :47:27. | :47:31. | |
five-year-olds will imitate the behaviour. They won't.They will! | :47:32. | :47:35. | |
Children imitate behaviour more than you will believe. It is wrong to say | :47:35. | :47:44. | |
that they won't. Yes, Sir? When you say about Luis Suarez - nurses get | :47:44. | :47:47. | |
paid �120,000 in two years, he gets that in a week! They save lives for | :47:47. | :47:54. | |
16 hours a day. Yes, OK. You are cross about that. Charlotte? Look, | :47:54. | :48:03. | |
he was at work. All I know is if I bit David Cameron at work... A big | :48:03. | :48:13. | |
:48:13. | :48:14. | ||
if! If I do... There is a point about people being beyond blame. We | :48:14. | :48:19. | |
have seen bankers, the head of the NHS. They are big people and seem to | :48:19. | :48:23. | |
be beyond blame. He needs to face the consequences. Your life is not | :48:23. | :48:28. | |
in a great way if you are biting someone. Being a high-profile | :48:28. | :48:31. | |
footballer has to be a stress and a strain. He needs to be taken off the | :48:31. | :48:39. | |
pitch, for the other players' sake as well! Yes, the gentleman there? | :48:39. | :48:46. | |
You have precedent in law. When the Merseyside Police turn round and go, | :48:46. | :48:52. | |
"There is no case to argue." When somebody in the street bites | :48:52. | :48:57. | |
someone, "You can't prosecute me, you didn't prosecute Luis Suarez, | :48:57. | :49:04. | |
I'm innocent, too!" David? A club like Liverpool should be about | :49:04. | :49:08. | |
community, about hard work, about reputation. I think it is a shame | :49:08. | :49:15. | |
that we have got to a place where big football clubs put money - and | :49:15. | :49:19. | |
that's what Luis Suarez represents - before a decency that football used | :49:19. | :49:25. | |
to be about. In the end, I think the public are reacting against a group | :49:25. | :49:28. | |
of people and footballers are included, they are hugely | :49:28. | :49:35. | |
privileged, lots of money, and they are above the law when everybody | :49:35. | :49:38. | |
else can't make racist statements and can't go around biting people. | :49:38. | :49:45. | |
Tina? Why are we talking about Suarez? We put this on the Newsbeat | :49:45. | :49:49. | |
Facebook page and it got a huge response. Jamie said, "I want to | :49:49. | :49:54. | |
know why UK law doesn't apply to football pitches. Assault and racism | :49:54. | :49:59. | |
need to be stopped." Adam, "Should have been banned from the Premier | :49:59. | :50:07. | |
League. They should be given the punishment we get." "It's a | :50:07. | :50:12. | |
ludicrous ban. I have seen a lot worse on a football pitch. He shows | :50:12. | :50:18. | |
passion, unlike so many others." The Power Bar update. Sara, you have | :50:18. | :50:28. | |
:50:28. | :50:29. | ||
caught up with David. Neck-and-neck. Very good. The death of Lady | :50:29. | :50:35. | |
Thatcher provoked a huge response from young and old with many | :50:35. | :50:38. | |
conflicting opinions about her legacy. The Free Speech audience | :50:38. | :50:43. | |
have had their say too. Here are a few thoughts to start you off. | :50:43. | :50:53. | |
:50:53. | :50:55. | ||
Strong minded. Patriotic. Short-sighted. The Iron Lady.Strong | :50:55. | :51:04. | |
lady. U-turn, if you want to. female Prime Minister. Shift of the | :51:04. | :51:09. | |
political spectrum. Communities destroyed by unemployment. Lack of | :51:09. | :51:19. | |
:51:19. | :51:19. | ||
social housing. Get rich quick.The Lady is not for turning. Unlucky. | :51:19. | :51:28. | |
Lucky. Very lucky. Does it matter? It's happened. Lucky.Move on. Her | :51:28. | :51:34. | |
legacy remains. We have a question from Josh? Was it right to celebrate | :51:34. | :51:39. | |
the death of Thatcher? "Yes" or "no"? Celebrate the death of | :51:39. | :51:44. | |
someone? No, that is never right. I think you can politically disagree | :51:44. | :51:49. | |
with someone. David and I politically disagree on a lot of | :51:49. | :51:55. | |
things. I would like to think when either of us pass away the other one | :51:55. | :51:59. | |
won't dance on the grave! You have had two very strong opinions come | :51:59. | :52:03. | |
out on either side. People aren't looking at the facts. People aren't | :52:03. | :52:06. | |
looking at the facts that the Labour Government before her closed more | :52:06. | :52:09. | |
mining pits than she did in 11 years. They closed more in five | :52:09. | :52:15. | |
years. There are a lot of myths out there. I implore people before we | :52:15. | :52:18. | |
make these judgments, just go out and read about it for yourselves. | :52:18. | :52:22. | |
Read some things you don't necessarily think you will agree | :52:22. | :52:29. | |
with and test yourself and say, "Did I know that about what she did?" See | :52:29. | :52:36. | |
exactly what she stood for in the world. Please, no matter who it is, | :52:36. | :52:40. | |
when Chavez died, a lot of people were celebrating. Don't celebrate | :52:40. | :52:45. | |
someone's death. David? If you were growing up in an inner city area, as | :52:45. | :52:50. | |
I was, if you saw riots, if you were a miner, if you were fighting | :52:50. | :52:53. | |
against apartheid, this is not a woman you feel like you want to | :52:53. | :52:56. | |
celebrate. I don't think you should celebrate someone's death. You have | :52:56. | :53:03. | |
to ask who is the person that created a culture, a consumerism, a | :53:03. | :53:12. | |
lack of decency? Where did that begin? In the' 80s. Charlotte? | :53:12. | :53:16. | |
let other people tell you what to think. Let's remember - I wasn't | :53:16. | :53:22. | |
born in the '70s. Rats, bodies uncollected, three-day weeks, the | :53:22. | :53:26. | |
"Winter of Discontent" was a bad place. Heath was responsible for | :53:26. | :53:31. | |
that. The mining community was not sustainable. It had been closing. | :53:31. | :53:35. | |
Thatcher switched off the liep support machine. That is not to | :53:35. | :53:41. | |
undermine the -- the life-support machine. That is not to under mine | :53:41. | :53:50. | |
that - it is a complex legacy. It's made me read a lot more about | :53:50. | :53:53. | |
what's happened under Thatcher's Government. It brings us together, | :53:53. | :53:56. | |
whether we agree or disagree. We now talk about what we do. That is what | :53:56. | :54:02. | |
I think. A quick show of hands. Who feels like Thatcher had a positive | :54:02. | :54:12. | |
:54:12. | :54:12. | ||
legacy? Who thinks negative? Interesting. Any specific thoughts? | :54:12. | :54:22. | |
With Thatcher, a lot of her legacy - she brought the country forward into | :54:22. | :54:25. | |
a time that other places in the world had got to before us. We | :54:25. | :54:29. | |
cannot forget a lot of the divisive politics that she stood for and | :54:29. | :54:34. | |
whilst a lot of the things would have happened without her, we cannot | :54:34. | :54:39. | |
forget that millions of people were unemployed and she wasn't perfect, | :54:39. | :54:43. | |
but she wasn't evil at the same time. You should never celebrate | :54:43. | :54:47. | |
someone's death. Tina, a final look at the Power Bar? It's been | :54:47. | :54:52. | |
interesting. Charlotte, you slipped ahead of David, now you have slipped | :54:52. | :54:59. | |
back. Overall tonight, David, you are the winner. Congratulations. | :54:59. | :55:06. | |
That means you get to have the final say. You have 15 seconds. That's on | :55:06. | :55:13. | |
this debate. David?For this debate, it keeps changing. We have worked | :55:13. | :55:19. | |
out the maths behind it. David is the winner! It is not a fix. David? | :55:19. | :55:23. | |
Look, I think, as I said, young people are getting a raw deal in | :55:23. | :55:29. | |
this country. Unemployment, tuition fees, and the discussion we have had | :55:29. | :55:33. | |
about the minimum wage. For those reasons, you have to be politically | :55:33. | :55:36. | |
engaged. You have to stand up to the Coalition Government. You have to | :55:36. | :55:41. | |
pressure my party to continue to do better, basically. This country | :55:41. | :55:44. | |
needs a proper politics that addresses the issues of our time. We | :55:44. | :55:49. | |
have been debating the 1980s. We are living with the legacy of the 1980s. | :55:49. | :55:52. | |
We need to move forward together and this programme has demonstrated | :55:52. | :56:02. | |
:56:02. | :56:03. | ||
that. That is almost it. Thank you to our audience. Our panel and to | :56:03. | :56:09. | |
you at home for sending in all of your comments. The debate will | :56:09. | :56:12. | |
continue online every day of every week of every month of the year. | :56:12. | :56:18. | |
Join us next time. We will be live on May 22nd at 8.00pm. We will leave | :56:18. | :56:25. | |
you with some more thoughts on education from Suli Brakes. This one | :56:25. | :56:33. | |
is for my generation. Picture their future, accept destiny on Facebook. | :56:33. | :56:38. | |
This one has my failures and drop-outs. Shop assistants and | :56:38. | :56:43. | |
cleaners and cashiers, my self-employed entrepreneurs, the | :56:43. | :56:47. |