The High Cost of Cheap Clothes Free Speech


The High Cost of Cheap Clothes

Live debate from Derry/Londonderry, where a panel of celebrities, politicians and local activists discuss the high price of cheap clothes in front of an audience of young people.


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Transcript


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want to hear from you. -- this is a grand. The only show where you can

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express issues that you want to hear about. You make your own luck in

:00:21.:00:31.
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this world. I can't lose an entire generation. You have got people

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spitting about being statistics. government telling you what to do,

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it is so patronising. Oh, my God. St Columb's Hall in Derry,

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Londonderry, call it what you will, here we are. We want to hear what

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everyone here has two say and what you at home have two say as well.

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You have do tell Tina Daheley. you very much. Tell me your opinions

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and I will bring them to the heart of our discussion in the studio. Get

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your laptops and tablets and phones ready, get online. One easy way to

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get your voice heard is via the Power Bar. It responds in real-time

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to what you think of the panel's points of view and it operates via

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twitter. Just use hash tag yes, or hash tag no, followed by the first

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name of a panellist each time you agree or disagree. And our panel's

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first job is to tell us who they are and why they are here. My name is

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Colum Eastwood, I am an STL P MLA for Derry, I am glad to be here to

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engage with you on the issues of today. I am Zoe Salmon, I am a TV

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broadcaster and I am here to hear your views. I am Alastair Ross,

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member of the Northern Ireland assembly. I am president of the

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National union of students, union of students in Ireland and I believe

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passionately in youth and student conference in the last hour, the

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prime minister has described the killing of a man outside an army

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barracks in south London is absolutely sickening. He said

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details were still coming in but there is every indication it was a

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terrorist attack. The victim is thought to be a soldier who was

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attacked with knives and a meat cleaver. A question to each of our

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panellists, what do you think the government response should he?

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express my condolences to this man's family, it sounds like a very

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barbaric attack. What we need to do is remember that this is the act of

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madmen and our response needs to be proportional to that. The government

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and the community need to be aware that these are madmen and we should

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not stoop to their level. As David Cameron has said in the last half an

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hour, if this is in fact a terrorist attack, we have very little

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information at the moment, we can't let the terrorists win. We need to

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do our best to go on and live our lives. We can't let the terrorists

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win. It is an absolutely horrific event. We have heard some news

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coming through at the moment, irrespective of who these people

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work and what their motivation was, it was an evil act. What we learned

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in the aftermath of the Boston bombings, social media plays an

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important role, people put rumours and speculation on twitter and

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Facebook, people should resist from doing that. I want to echo the

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comments of the rest of the panel, it is a terrible thing that has

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happened but let's not jump to conclusions. Somebody has lost their

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life and we need to give the family time to grieve. Let's get back to

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our main topic. The whole world was shocked when they garment factory in

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Anglo - collapsed, killing over 1100 workers. Is it time to start

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thinking about how and why we shop. We have spoken to Meehail and

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Colleen, who have very different of age. When I heard the factory had

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collapsed in Bangladesh, I was shocked and outraged. I could no

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longer sick back and watch it so I decided to organise a demonstration

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in the high Street in Derry. The aim was to nick people aware of where

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their clothes come from and to place as much pass -- pressure as possible

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to sign the Bangladesh safety agreement. I am Colleen and I am 20

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and I am studying hairdressing. I do need access to cheap clothes. They

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shut down all of the cheap shots, I wouldn't be able to afford to go

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into any other shops. For a trainee, I don't think I earn a lot of money.

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For �46 a week, I have do give housekeeping, have to pay travel,

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have two pay for food and entertainment, toiletries and food.

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I love shopping, it is my world and I would be lost without it. I think

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cheap clothes cost lives. I think in many cases, the cost is much more

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important than the condition. I think the quantity of cheap clothes

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on the market, and the low cost of them, encourages people to buy more

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than they need. I like to drive -- buy dresses, they make me feel

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better about myself. I should think about where my clothes are made, but

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I don't. Colleen is here. What would you like to ask the panel?

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shouldn't I buy cheap clothes? want to keep this debate moving, you

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have 30 seconds to give us a taste of your point of view. I think we

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all have a responsibility for the things that we buy and the people

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that make those things. I think we should spend a little more, not a

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lot more, to try to make sure people who are making our clothes are

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protected and given human rights and dignity that would be expected by

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all of us. Globalisation shouldn't just be a bad thing, we can export

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the good parts of what we do. If you look at the fair trade movement,

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with tea and coffee, that can be similarly done with clothes. That

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was spot on, very impressive. What do you think about this, Zoe?

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it is important to look at the success side of what and the Dutch

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have done for themselves as a country. They are the second biggest

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country in the world for the export of garments and that in itself is

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fantastic, for them to have come so far. If you look at the women in

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these factories, they are sowing, dying, stitching the clothes, months

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ago they were in rural dwellings, not even allowed in the front part

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of the houses. They have gone in their millions to the city and they

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are getting a wage and they are bringing it back to their family. I

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would say that yes, it can be viewed money, what ever they are earning.

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Why don't we double that? It is not an awful lot for us to give them the

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extra money but it can make a whole different to them. I would like to

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congratulate Bangladesh on what they have achieved so far and I would

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say, let's keep on supporting what they are doing. But let's pay them a

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little bit more. Be prepared to pay more for our clothes, to ensure

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working conditions are better in factories overseas? I don't think

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the cost should fall on us, it should fall on the company's that

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are employing these people. The only people that are winning here is the

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company. We're not getting top quality clothes at cheap prices, you

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get what you pay for the people making profits are the companies and

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they should be made to play. -- to pay. Anyone else? It is quite

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clear, these businesses are forcing almost slavery on third world

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countries who are making fashion, that it is the workforce, the only

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place where they can bend the boundaries. The machines cost too

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much money so they put pressure on the people. One query and concern I

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would have as a consumer and someone involved in the fashion industry is

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how do they ensure that they are making sure better rights, better

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support. But the availability of a good time, employability for these

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places, how do they go about making sure that is done well? I have seen

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previous legislation where they have closed down factories where children

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were working in HASP conditions -- harsh conditions. Those children

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were forced into prostitution, road-building, selling themselves,

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it is terrible. They need to make sure that consequences are kept in

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place. It needs to be legislated correctly and strictly. If you agree

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or disagree, let Tina no. It is busy on line already, Edward says it does

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not mind paying more as long as he knows it is definitely going to help

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the workers are not going into some highly paid executive pocket. Ryan

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:10:30.:10:38.

clothes? Consumers have the power here. We know that people care about

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working conditions but we know the opportunity to get a bargain on the

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high Street trumps those concerns. If there is enough pressure put on

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retailers, they will sign up to better conditions for people in

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south-east Asia, Bangladesh and China and people -- polices like

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that. -- places like that. These countries rely very much on this

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sort of trade. The worst thing we could do is stop that trade because

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it will hurt the very people we care about. Adrian, you have become quite

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involved with an ethical fashion business yourself? Through the

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National union of students, we have realised that they really care about

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ethical clothing and trading. Through purchasing Consortium, we

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have purchased a clothing company in Asia and we are taking it very

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seriously in terms of manufacturing and ensuring workers are paid far

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above the average wage in the country that they operate in. It is

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important that young people know about this and they get the

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opportunity to buy clothes that are ethical. It is about blood on your

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clothes and what happened in Bangladesh is a perfect example of

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when the garment industry is at its worst. What has been the impact on

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the cost to the consumers? It has been -- maybe clothes more expensive

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but I don't think consumers mind having to pay a bit more if they

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note it is coming from an ethical source. All of our cotton is fair

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trade. Factory workers are entitled to time off and maternity leave. It

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costs more but when you put the video on and it has cost �25 instead

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of �18, you know it is coming from an ethical place -- when you put the

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foodie -- the hooded jumper on. is the place where we find out what

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you have been saying -- what the audience at home think of what you

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have been saying. Adrianne, you are in the lead so far. Alistair, you

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have some catching up to do. It could all change.

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Is there anyone here who is not prepared to pay more for their

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clothes? I guess you? At the end of the day, you can't afford it. If you

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are not earning, what are you going to do? Selena, you work at the only

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remaining shirt factory in Derry. Why have the numbers dwindled so

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much? The problem started when factories increased their size, so

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they could do cheaper production. They moved to overseas production

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instead. Factories became empty and staff were made redundant. Our

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factory, we have always stayed very traditional, we cut everything by

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hand, we are responsive, we react quickly to fashions and trends so

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that we can compete with bigger brands. We have continued to keep

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the staff at a very skilled higher level. We sell in Bloomingdale's,

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Selfridge's, Harvey Nichols and that sort of market. You're not competing

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against the fast fashion? No. We couldn't compete. Is there any way

:14:17.:14:27.
:14:27.:14:31.

of bringing the industry back to Japan, they love just things.

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British things. If we stop buying clothes from overseas, what would be

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the impact on workers in places like Bangladesh?

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Bangladesh is only next to China, it is really good at making clothes. It

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has the capacity, the know-how, the resources. We need to improve our

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building conditions but it is the responsibility shared by the factory

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owners and the government and respective ministries. So instead of

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stopping buying Angle dishy clothes, you should really focus on buying

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Bangladeshi clothes. It will improve the conditions of the people working

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in the industry. The workers who work in factories make about $2 a

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day, which is more than the average money that poor person in Bangladesh

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:15:36.:15:52.

makes everyday. Some comments coming in Bangladesh need jobs, but the

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people he also needs jobs. So there has got to be a balance that is

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struck. Are you concerned that jobs are not being created in the textile

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industry for you here, there is high unemployment? I would think that

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whenever you have jobs here that have gone redundant due to moving

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overseas, it was simply because the businesses are determined to have an

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endless pursuit of profit, they are not really concerned with which

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country grows. So why do we send all our resources over to Bangladesh,

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they are becoming dependent on those industries, and they are not

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motivated to reduce growth and new industries in their own country. The

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status of that country will never increase. All the while, we declined

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due to us not anything either. Anyone else got a comment on this

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Apology for the loss of subtitles for 40 seconds

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issue? Lots of messages coming in equal marriage bill was passed last

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night despite almost being derailed by Conservative MPs earlier in the

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week. In Northern Ireland a motion calling for equal marriage was

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defeated by assembly members just a few weeks ago. Barry has a question.

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Why should two people in love not have the right to be married?

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go to Alastair and lead but 30 seconds on the clock. It is a very

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divisive issue, we have seen that at Westminster. It is also divisive

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here in Northern Ireland. It is a devolved issue so we can decide what

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we do in this regard. We have had two debates in six months, we have

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the view that we are not to redefine marriage. It is important people are

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given the opportunity to have their relationship recognised but the

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important point is no party in Northern Ireland, no mainstream

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party in the UK have this in their manifesto. Adrian, how would you

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respond? I applaud every single MP who voted in favour of equal

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marriage over the last two days. Second of all, I don't think you

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need to have equality and a manifesto in order to deliver on it.

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It is not an equality issue. It is, it is about two people being able to

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declare their love each other and be recognised by the state. Let's say

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that you changed this and black people getting married, let's

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replace the word gay with any other kind of demographic, suddenly it

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becomes horrendous to and incredibly in equal. Let's replace it with

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Catholic and Protestant. Its flight in the face of equality. So I say,

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absolutely, if you think marriage equality is not going to happen in

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Northern Ireland then you are living under a rock, because it will happen

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:19:49.:19:53.

eventually. It is not an equality issue, it is the UN who have said is

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-- it is not an equality issue. They determine it is up to individual

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states to legislate for that. So that is important. The point I made

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about it not being in the manifesto, that is a crime tract between voters

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and politicians. No partition can say they have a mandate for having

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such a fundamental social change -- no politician. Until they have it in

:20:15.:20:22.

their manifesto, they cannot do it. I applaud whoever is ensuring it

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happens. I would not criticise anybody who is in favour of equal

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marriage, I applaud every single MP who has nailed their colours to the

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mast and said they are there for the LGB T community and they are

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standing by their gay comrades in terms of equal marriage. One day it

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will happen in Northern Ireland, maybe not tomorrow or in six months

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but when you are in a room full of young people, who are your

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constituents and they are telling you that marriage equality is

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important to them, it will happen. It is also important that we respect

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the views of the tens of thousands of people in Northern Ireland who

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don't agree with you. It is important that we do that. I think

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the most intolerant language in this debate have come from those who

:21:06.:21:13.

support gay marriage. That is disappointing. Differing opinions,

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safe to say. Are we getting a varied response? The majority of people

:21:19.:21:29.
:21:29.:21:46.

don't agree with you at home, to hear the result last night. I was

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someone who spoke in favour of equal marriage in the Northern Ireland

:21:49.:21:53.

assembly, I've voted in favour of it. I was disappointed that we

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couldn't get it across the line because my honest belief is that

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although we have difficulties with this issue, if two people love each

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other, they should be entitled to get marriage. It doesn't offend me

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in the slightest. I believe in marriage, I'm getting married this

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year. I don't think if two men or two women are allowed to be

:22:15.:22:22.

married, that doesn't threaten me or my marriage or one bit at all.

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about you, Zoe? When I put my lawyers had on, I'm 100% agree with

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the legislation in terms of equality. I think it is a basic

:22:34.:22:41.

human rights for everyone. However, taking it off, it is down there and

:22:41.:22:45.

I'm putting on the hat that says, I do have a question of morals and

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beliefs. I think marriage is a union between a man and a woman and

:22:50.:22:55.

therefore in terms of legislation, it is very important that the

:22:55.:22:58.

different ridges institutions, it is up to them whether or not they

:22:58.:23:05.

implement it. -- religious institutions. Legislation does allow

:23:05.:23:09.

for judges to opt out of it, and that is fair enough. But I think the

:23:09.:23:13.

state, government, need to take a different view, and as different

:23:14.:23:19.

view from churches. We do have a separation of church and state and

:23:19.:23:22.

that is a healthy thing. Thankfully the Westminster government have made

:23:22.:23:27.

this decision. I hope to God we can follow them some day in Northern

:23:27.:23:36.

Ireland. Anyone in the audience disagreed? Certainly there is no

:23:36.:23:39.

doubt it is a divisive issue and certainly not everyone here is going

:23:39.:23:45.

to agree. Personally speaking, I feel we shouldn't be redefining the

:23:45.:23:49.

term marriage, I believe it is between a man and a woman. However,

:23:49.:23:53.

I am not going to force that on anybody else, that is my personal

:23:53.:23:59.

belief, my party's belief. But I certainly respect everybody else's

:23:59.:24:04.

opinion on it as well. I think we must respect the rights of those who

:24:04.:24:10.

are expected to carry out the ceremony as well. It is important

:24:10.:24:13.

that is respected. We must rumba there is certainly a widespread

:24:13.:24:20.

support for gay marriage, no doubt about that. -- we must remember. But

:24:20.:24:22.

there is more support in Northern Ireland for marriage to stay where

:24:22.:24:32.
:24:32.:24:32.

it is. I think this room is losing with people who say yes to marriage

:24:32.:24:39.

equality. We are in the 21st-century. I am a 22-year-old

:24:39.:24:42.

student and I have never, ever come across somebody on any campers, who

:24:42.:24:48.

disagrees with this. I think it is absolutely ludicrous. If a woman

:24:48.:24:58.
:24:58.:25:00.

loves a woman, if a man loves a man, it is the same thing. I just...

:25:00.:25:07.

cannot understand the opposition at all? At the end of the day, the law

:25:07.:25:11.

of the land is for everybody. It is not for a minority or a majority. It

:25:12.:25:18.

is for everybody who lives in the country. Lots of people are talking

:25:18.:25:28.
:25:28.:25:34.

T-shirt. I found it quite reassuring that Alastair is here and speaking

:25:34.:25:38.

against gay marriage. The DV have often been opposed to equal rights

:25:38.:25:44.

for everybody. They tried to enforce that here for a lot of years. To

:25:44.:25:47.

hear a white, middle-class heterosexual male telling anybody

:25:47.:25:52.

what they can or cannot do is absolutely horrendous. Alastair

:25:52.:25:57.

should hang his head in shame that he is perpetrating these things.

:25:57.:26:04.

Very strong opinions. Down to this gentleman. I would like to ask

:26:04.:26:12.

Alastair about the fundamentals of what marriage is. It is based on

:26:12.:26:18.

ridges tenets which are by nature completely subjective. -- religious

:26:18.:26:24.

tenets. Why should policy be based on subjective things, in biology,

:26:24.:26:27.

homosexual behaviour is natural among all creatures and it has been

:26:27.:26:31.

documented. I would like you define scientific proof that not refuted by

:26:31.:26:36.

any biologist or psychologist that something natural should not be

:26:36.:26:43.

disallowed. This is not an anti-gay stance, it is a pro-traditional

:26:43.:26:48.

marriage stance. It is not the media say, the United Nations declaration

:26:48.:26:56.

of human rights has upheld that view. -- it is not for me to say. I

:26:56.:27:01.

think there are civil partnerships there to give a legal repetition --

:27:01.:27:04.

recognition of two people of the same sex who are in love. But you

:27:04.:27:09.

have to understand there is massive anxiety out there in the community,

:27:09.:27:11.

from Protestants and Roman Catholics, about redefining

:27:11.:27:17.

marriage. Among the younger graphic you have a certain view but there

:27:17.:27:21.

are people across Northern Ireland, across Northern Ireland, who take a

:27:21.:27:26.

different view. Look at Westminster, more conservatives ruled against

:27:26.:27:31.

this than for it. This is an issue that people in all sorts of parties,

:27:31.:27:38.

and including his party, they have strong feelings on it. I am

:27:38.:27:42.

reflecting people who vote for me, and I am reflecting an opinion that

:27:42.:27:47.

is out there in the community. ever, this topic is getting people

:27:47.:27:57.
:27:57.:28:28.

going. Lots of opinions coming you get on twitter now and tell our

:28:28.:28:38.
:28:38.:29:00.

panellists what you think of them. support from their parents,

:29:00.:29:05.

according to a new survey which found that eight out of ten people

:29:05.:29:10.

aged 18 to 30 had had help from the bank of mum and dad. Here are a few

:29:10.:29:16.

thoughts. I rely quite a lot on my parents, I can't make it without

:29:16.:29:19.

their support. I rely a lot on my parents, we don't have much of a

:29:19.:29:25.

choice. It depends on the parents as well as the children. It is always

:29:25.:29:29.

good if parents are able to give help. I live with my mum, dad,

:29:29.:29:35.

brother, sister and boyfriend. have three flatmates. I live with my

:29:35.:29:41.

mum and my dad. I share it with my parents, I pay half and they pay

:29:41.:29:48.

half. I live in my dads that, he the bills. I am 23. If I am going home

:29:48.:29:52.

for the weekend, I will probably store it up in advance. I help with

:29:52.:29:58.

the cooking and cleaning. biggest thing my parents did for me

:29:58.:30:04.

was taught me a house, and a car. They have paid for my education

:30:04.:30:08.

through to my masters. The biggest thing they have done is to raise me

:30:08.:30:12.

in a loving and caring environment, that is the biggest help they could

:30:12.:30:19.

ever give me. A house and a car! Apparently in Derry men live at

:30:19.:30:26.

homes with their mum and dad as much as possible. There is a joke that

:30:26.:30:30.

Jesus must have been from Derry because he lived at home until he is

:30:30.:30:40.
:30:40.:30:43.

30. I live with my parents! course! On a more serious note, here

:30:43.:30:50.

it is referred to as being a mummy's boy. Other cultures look on it as

:30:50.:30:57.

being more serious, in Japan they call them a parasite single. It

:30:57.:31:02.

contrasts a lot depending on the culture. There is a major problem

:31:02.:31:06.

with young people around my age and younger, we have to carry the debt

:31:06.:31:09.

that the bankers have left us with and we won't be able to afford to

:31:09.:31:13.

buy our own homes. It is an issue that more and more people have

:31:13.:31:16.

deliver at home through necessity rather than choice. Out of interest,

:31:16.:31:23.

who else with this -- lives with a family member, a parent. A lot. Who

:31:23.:31:32.

do you live with? My mummy.How is it? Stressful sometimes.I am not

:31:32.:31:39.

going to delve further into that! Julia has a question. It is specific

:31:39.:31:47.

to students. Do you think the increasing cost of education is

:31:47.:31:53.

forcing an undue burden on parents? Unemployment levels in Northern

:31:53.:32:00.

Ireland are at a 15 year high. A record high for 18 to 24-year-olds.

:32:00.:32:03.

One in four young people are finding it impossible to get a job. It makes

:32:03.:32:09.

my heart I think of these young people who have gone through

:32:09.:32:14.

apprenticeships and degrees and can't get a job. It is up to parents

:32:14.:32:17.

to provide the love and the shelter and food that they need, even though

:32:18.:32:24.

they are in their mid-20s or whatever. I had time to spare!

:32:24.:32:29.

Adrianne, you are a parent, what is your approach going to be?

:32:29.:32:37.

daughter is seven so she lives with me of course! Work-shy!It is not

:32:37.:32:42.

students to force education to be so expensive. The average dude and is

:32:42.:32:47.

not the same as ten or 15 years ago, -- the average student is not the

:32:47.:32:50.

same. It is about the lack of employment, we have a generation

:32:50.:32:56.

facing down the barrel. We will be worse off than our parents were and

:32:56.:33:00.

that has never happened before. This is a government who are not

:33:00.:33:03.

prioritising young people, both in Northern Ireland and Westminster. We

:33:04.:33:08.

have seen use and implement skyrocket to highest levels and it

:33:08.:33:12.

is not good enough for stock we need to take action and give young people

:33:12.:33:15.

more opportunities, so they don't have to live with their parents.

:33:15.:33:18.

They don't want to be relying on their parents, they want to be

:33:19.:33:26.

self-sufficient. We are live, you can talk to us, Facebook, Twitter,

:33:26.:33:29.

BBC online. Your opinion at home matters just as much as in the

:33:29.:33:39.
:33:39.:33:53.

studio. A really interesting angle thing. Is there an alternative? Who

:33:53.:34:00.

else is going to support you? Realistically, it seems that half of

:34:00.:34:03.

the problem is coming from the educational standpoint, the finance

:34:03.:34:08.

to fund further education in some places, it has gone beyond a joke

:34:08.:34:12.

where you can't afford it. If there is a way to make further education

:34:12.:34:15.

free and available to everybody, that would solve the vast majority

:34:15.:34:19.

of the problems in terms of payments. It means you could go on

:34:19.:34:22.

and get a better job without worrying about being able to afford

:34:22.:34:29.

it. Where is the other Colin? Sometimes you will get a boom

:34:29.:34:35.

microphone in the head on a live TV show! Why are we in this position?

:34:35.:34:45.
:34:45.:34:52.

focused and know where they want to get. People need the support of

:34:52.:34:59.

their families. People rely on their parents are lots more. I think

:34:59.:35:04.

schools and education places need to teach students how to do that,

:35:04.:35:11.

especially boys. Who thinks that young people should be standing on

:35:11.:35:16.

their own two feet a bit more and looking after themselves? I feel

:35:16.:35:19.

that moving out on your own can be a very daunting prospect and there is

:35:19.:35:25.

nothing really, no support for those sort of people. Moving out on their

:35:25.:35:29.

own for a first time. It would be a nonbeliever be hard budget to do

:35:29.:35:37.

things like that. -- unbelievably hard budget. Maybe the government

:35:37.:35:40.

should make people more inclined to want to move out, away from the

:35:40.:35:48.

comfort zone. A financial incentive of some sort. This gentleman.

:35:48.:35:52.

young people to be independent, they need more jobs and they need better

:35:52.:35:59.

skills and the like. The duty of Stormont, of the government, is to

:35:59.:36:03.

improve the Northern Irish economy and they have failed to do that for

:36:03.:36:07.

ten years. What I find really depressing, the problems of Northern

:36:07.:36:11.

Ireland are very deep-set, but if you look at the economic manifestoes

:36:11.:36:14.

of the Democratic Unionist party and Sinn Fein, they are almost

:36:14.:36:21.

identical. They both agreed that skills need to be proved --

:36:21.:36:25.

improved, infrastructure needs to be better, schools need to be better.

:36:25.:36:31.

They seem to agree so much and they are failing to do it. I think the

:36:31.:36:36.

blame is on the politicians. APPLAUSE

:36:36.:36:41.

Let's give credit where it is due. Northern Ireland students don't have

:36:41.:36:44.

to pay as high fees as they do elsewhere in the United Kingdom

:36:44.:36:50.

because the assembly took the decision to freeze fees. There has

:36:50.:36:55.

also been a decision to freeze educational maintenance allowance.

:36:55.:36:59.

People may argue it is not enough but at least it is something to help

:36:59.:37:02.

students to face additional barriers. That is something that is

:37:02.:37:08.

going on. In terms of the economy, all of the parties have a policy for

:37:08.:37:14.

getting more people into work. The first minister announced a scheme to

:37:14.:37:21.

get people into work. This is a serious issue and I think

:37:21.:37:24.

politicians are trying to help young people get a chance in life and get

:37:24.:37:31.

into work, it is something we should give them a chance at doing. Lots of

:37:31.:37:41.
:37:41.:37:49.

make a grand assumption that every young person has wealthy parents to

:37:49.:37:58.

live off. This one says education is mostly nonsense, most of the things

:37:58.:38:02.

we need are in the real world. And DJ says the cost of education,

:38:02.:38:09.

living and low employment means no -- young people have no chance to

:38:09.:38:15.

save up and become in dependent. Adrianne come you have surged ahead

:38:15.:38:25.
:38:25.:38:31.

more and more young people have got them. Since the start of the

:38:31.:38:35.

recession, the number of 16 to 24-year-olds on a zero hours

:38:35.:38:42.

contracts has more than doubled. It ties up the worker to be available

:38:42.:38:48.

but only pay them the hours they work. A zero hour contract for me

:38:48.:38:52.

means I have no jobs ability, I don't know how many hours I will get

:38:52.:38:56.

from week to week. I am at university and I need some sort of

:38:56.:39:01.

structure. More often than not, the question, can you come into work, is

:39:01.:39:05.

given at very short notice was that it is a rhetorical question because

:39:05.:39:09.

if you don't come into work, you are likely to be cut the next week. You

:39:09.:39:14.

are deemed to be unreliable. It is an abuse of power, being able to

:39:14.:39:21.

have an unlimited pool of workers, to give nobody that the commitment

:39:21.:39:25.

of employment and it is a shocking oversight by legislative assembly. I

:39:25.:39:30.

think it is thing that Adrianne would agree with. Has anybody had a

:39:30.:39:35.

positive experience? I agree with what you are saying but as a student

:39:35.:39:39.

I find the zero hour contract is very flexible and allows me to work

:39:39.:39:43.

or not work, to suit me. I have a lot of coursework and assignments

:39:43.:39:47.

and it suits me to say, I can't work this week because I need to finish

:39:47.:39:53.

those. They understand that and it is helpful that I am able to make it

:39:54.:40:01.

flexible, but at times I can be left short of money, or short of hours.

:40:01.:40:06.

It can be suitable for some people. Possibly you have a more

:40:06.:40:14.

understanding employer. And where is Michael? What is the panel's opinion

:40:15.:40:20.

on zero hour contracts? Are they for against it? We will start with

:40:20.:40:27.

Adrianne. I am definitely not in favour. I think... The thing that

:40:27.:40:32.

they all have in common, they come in many forms. The one thing they

:40:32.:40:36.

have in common is that they give the worker zero rights and they put all

:40:36.:40:40.

of the power back into the hands of the employer. They give you no

:40:40.:40:44.

sustainability, they give you zero assurances that you will even get

:40:45.:40:49.

work. It is really about employers holding all of the power. Particular

:40:49.:40:52.

for people who have caring responsibilities. I am a mum to a

:40:52.:40:56.

young child. If I didn't know week to week what my income was going to

:40:56.:41:05.

be, I would not be able to plan. Alistair, are you for against?

:41:05.:41:07.

dependent on circumstances. Some people relish the flexibility that

:41:08.:41:14.

he gives them. In principle?I think the flexible T4 employers and

:41:14.:41:21.

employees is a good thing mashed -- the flexibility for employers and

:41:21.:41:24.

employees. The more flexible itty that they have, the more inclined

:41:24.:41:28.

they are to try to create more jobs -- be more flexibility that they

:41:28.:41:34.

have. Most of our economy in Northern Ireland is small employers,

:41:34.:41:40.

the fax ability is very important. I know someone I spoke to yesterday

:41:40.:41:44.

who has a small child and they rely on the zero contract hours, of being

:41:44.:41:48.

able to get work at short notice, to come in and do a job. It is not

:41:48.:41:53.

going to suit everybody. It suits the needs of some people but for

:41:53.:41:58.

other people it is not a regular income. I think Flex ability should

:41:58.:42:05.

be encouraged. Zoe, who does this benefit? -- I think flexibility

:42:05.:42:13.

should be encouraged. It is often the case, if there is a zero hours

:42:13.:42:18.

contract available, I will take it, it is some form of employment. A lot

:42:18.:42:21.

of the people I spoke to have said, I am doing this as a means to an

:42:21.:42:26.

end, I am looking for another form of employment in the meantime. I

:42:26.:42:30.

think it is interesting that a lot of people are talking about it from

:42:30.:42:34.

the employee's point of view, but also from an employer's point of

:42:34.:42:39.

view. There is a lot of small business out there where they would

:42:39.:42:44.

not be able to survive if they didn't have the zero hour contracts.

:42:44.:42:49.

They would not be able to profit at all. I think from some employers

:42:49.:42:53.

point of use, they do need to exist. I don't agree with those employers

:42:53.:42:59.

who are having their cake and eating it too. Clearly people are desperate

:42:59.:43:03.

for work, it doesn't mean you strip away decades of hard work to ensure

:43:03.:43:06.

that people are protected and given the rights that they are deserved.

:43:06.:43:10.

That is what has happened, people have fought to get rights for

:43:10.:43:14.

workers. I think we are going back to Victorian age, if we allow this

:43:14.:43:20.

to become the norm. Whether people are young or not, they still deserve

:43:20.:43:23.

rights in their employment, security of tenure and everything else. I

:43:23.:43:27.

don't see how this could be beneficial for the economy as a

:43:27.:43:30.

whole. It is never beneficial for the economy when you treat people

:43:30.:43:35.

like this. I understand some people do want flexibility, but there are

:43:35.:43:39.

also people who are forced to sit at home and wait for a call. They might

:43:39.:43:43.

need to work two jobs but they can't because they are waiting for a call

:43:43.:43:46.

from another job. I don't think it is a sensible way to go. I think it

:43:46.:43:50.

is a way of getting around the advancement of employment rights and

:43:50.:44:00.
:44:00.:44:06.

dealing with the issues for agency We need to give opportunity to young

:44:06.:44:12.

people and have job creation. By giving employers flexibility it

:44:12.:44:15.

increases confidence and increases the likelihood of creating jobs. I

:44:15.:44:21.

think people will benefit from that. The difficulty is, the flexibility

:44:21.:44:25.

you talk about, they have to sit in the house and wait for a phone call

:44:25.:44:29.

from one employer. They might need them one day, not another day. If

:44:29.:44:33.

they don't take the opportunity, I don't do employers will call them

:44:33.:44:37.

again. People cannot practically take up second employment because

:44:37.:44:43.

they are stuck waiting for this phone call that may never come.

:44:43.:44:50.

of employers are... I have lost my statistic. That is dreadful, to be

:44:50.:45:00.
:45:00.:45:00.

honest. What is your take on zero our contracts? This entire contract

:45:00.:45:06.

is a burden on employees and employers. It is such a medieval

:45:06.:45:11.

debt bond that should never have resurfaced in modern times. All it

:45:11.:45:15.

does is quite literally lower the job numbers to disguise -- disguise

:45:15.:45:21.

the fact that they're right economic policies in place to separate the

:45:21.:45:26.

poor and the rich in this country. This is all a ruse so you think they

:45:26.:45:31.

are giving new employment in tough times, when it is them creating the

:45:31.:45:39.

tough times for you to need employment. What I was grappling

:45:39.:45:47.

fall was 23% of employers offer zero our contracts as an option. It very

:45:47.:45:51.

much depends on the employer. If you're looking at it from a student

:45:51.:45:55.

perspective and you see a student focused organisation, those

:45:55.:45:58.

contracts give students reflectivity when they are doing studies, can be

:45:58.:46:03.

beneficial for them. If it is looking at an external company like

:46:03.:46:08.

a global corporation giving these contracts with no job security at

:46:08.:46:16.

all, it becomes a serious problem especially among young people.

:46:16.:46:20.

whole concept is a double sided sword. It depends a lot on the

:46:20.:46:28.

business itself, if you owned small business and you had a big order

:46:28.:46:32.

coming up or a big event and needed extra hands, but you couldn't afford

:46:32.:46:42.
:46:42.:46:42.

it, a zero our contract would give the employer the flexible do it.

:46:42.:46:46.

They also work in favour of the youth, particularly in this country.

:46:46.:46:52.

Do you work with a fixed term contract? At the minute I'm on work

:46:52.:47:01.

here it's -- experience because I am studying. A lot of the job

:47:01.:47:08.

advertising is, particularly in this area, call for a lot of experience.

:47:09.:47:13.

Some of them wanted five GCSEs and years experience just the selling

:47:13.:47:21.

sweets. It seems expressive -- excessive. These contracts allow a

:47:21.:47:27.

young person to take it or emigrate, a lot of young people in Northern

:47:27.:47:31.

Ireland are emigrating because there is just no work and companies are

:47:31.:47:36.

hiding behind these contracts, just to affect the figures for people who

:47:36.:47:43.

are really unemployed. The practical implications of the contracts mean

:47:43.:47:48.

that employers no longer have the responsibility to the employees of

:47:48.:47:52.

having to pay for sickness, for holidays, if you take time off, if

:47:52.:47:57.

you want to go away on holiday, you get no wages. It is the same with

:47:57.:48:04.

small our contracts, 14 our contracts, you are hampered. I think

:48:04.:48:14.

the employers need to take the employees seriously. Gentleman here?

:48:14.:48:18.

I would like to ask a serious question to the petitions, do you

:48:18.:48:21.

think Stormont would get more done if you were only paid for the hours

:48:21.:48:29.

you work in the chamber? -- to the politicians. I think some people

:48:29.:48:35.

wouldn't get paid very much, but I think you make a fair enough point.

:48:35.:48:41.

I wouldn't worry so much but time spending in the chamber, there are

:48:41.:48:45.

those who say we need to be doing more sitting, I would say that more

:48:45.:48:49.

legislation is not necessarily good for the economy. I say we need to be

:48:49.:48:51.

doing more sitting, I would say that more legislation is not necessarily

:48:51.:48:55.

good for the economy. I say when you go to talk to businesses is less

:48:55.:49:05.
:49:05.:49:05.

Apology for the loss of subtitles for 40 seconds

:49:05.:50:08.

legislation, not more. If you agree, debate. Finally, this location is

:50:08.:50:13.

the first ever UK City of Culture. It is all kicking off here on

:50:13.:50:18.

Friday. You will be here for that? If I miss my flight back and someone

:50:19.:50:26.

gives me a ticket! We have a question. Do you feel that the City

:50:26.:50:34.

of Culture has met its expectations, that it was outlined

:50:34.:50:39.

at the beginning of the process? We're nearing the end of the show,

:50:39.:50:44.

let's rattle through and get a line from our panellists. I was involved

:50:44.:50:50.

in the bid team, so I'm very proud of the fact it is here. I think it

:50:51.:50:56.

is going to be a tremendous year, we have only just begun. We have one

:50:56.:51:00.

big weekend, this weekend, the Turner prize is coming to dairy for

:51:00.:51:03.

the first time ever outside England. I think we can make it a great year.

:51:04.:51:10.

We have to ensure that 2014 and 2015 great years as well, that we create

:51:10.:51:15.

a legacy for people here, showing the world would we can do, about

:51:15.:51:18.

creating employment for our young people. I think we should all be

:51:18.:51:27.

positive about it. Are you as positive about it? My lovely taxi

:51:27.:51:30.

man this evening, it is good to speak to someone who was in

:51:30.:51:33.

Londonderry, he was beaming and bursting with pride about the city

:51:33.:51:37.

and how much it has come on in the last couple of months. He says he

:51:37.:51:42.

goes to the airport to collect people, to bring them into the city

:51:42.:51:47.

centre, coming from all parts of the UK, he rings the fact of the airport

:51:47.:51:51.

of days later and they absolutely love it. -- he brings them back to

:51:51.:51:56.

the airport. They are always talking about it on Radio 1, it is so

:51:56.:52:02.

exciting, there are so many different, world-class events

:52:02.:52:08.

happening, it is unbelievable for Londonderry. This month alone, there

:52:08.:52:11.

are 44 events and hundreds more events are happening throughout the

:52:11.:52:16.

duration of the next six months. I am super excited and I hope to be

:52:16.:52:22.

coming along to some of them myself or stop well done for putting on a

:52:22.:52:29.

massive showcase for the world to see. Alastair, what would be the

:52:29.:52:35.

long-term economic benefits, do you think? It gets us noticed and

:52:35.:52:37.

changes the global perception of Northern Ireland as a whole. In

:52:38.:52:42.

recent years we have been successful in getting the events, from 2011

:52:42.:52:48.

with the MTV music awards, , the Irish open, this year we had the UK

:52:48.:52:56.

City of Culture, the G8 is coming here, next year we have the Giro

:52:56.:53:00.

d'Italia. I think people across Northern Ireland love the fact that

:53:00.:53:05.

those things are coming to Northern Ireland and they can get involved.

:53:05.:53:09.

think it is fantastic to be able to showcase the best of Northern

:53:09.:53:13.

Ireland and in particular the wonderful culture of Derry,

:53:13.:53:17.

Londonderry, and as we talk about shared strategy and shared future

:53:17.:53:23.

for Northern Ireland, what better than to have the City of Culture

:53:23.:53:28.

here in dairy, Londonderry. The only caveat is I haven't seen too many

:53:28.:53:31.

opportunities for young people to get involved with volunteering, or

:53:31.:53:35.

apprenticeships being made, I hope petitions will be listening to this

:53:35.:53:39.

and wondering how they can ensure that young people to benefit from

:53:39.:53:45.

tourism and job creation in this area. Thereafter we doesn't

:53:45.:53:47.

volunteering opportunities available, but there is very high

:53:47.:53:52.

unemployment or so. -- there are 3000 volunteering opportunities

:53:52.:53:59.

available. You had your hand up. Speaking as someone who lives in a

:53:59.:54:02.

row community near here, I wouldn't say that I would view it as a City

:54:03.:54:07.

of Culture being an important thing in the crow a rule community. If I

:54:07.:54:14.

was going to go anywhere, I would go to Belfast, and in fact, I barely

:54:14.:54:21.

ever hear of Derry. Before I came into the studio today, I heard of a

:54:21.:54:24.

couple of people taking surveys and they said, did you hear about the

:54:24.:54:32.

media things last week was Mac the BBC was doing a workshop. I haven't

:54:32.:54:39.

heard about it and I am on a journalism course. This gentleman

:54:39.:54:45.

had his hand up for a while. It is great to have tourism in, but

:54:45.:54:49.

personally I don't feel that Derry should have been the City of

:54:49.:54:56.

Culture. Simply for the fact that it is a city, we cannot even agree on a

:54:56.:55:03.

name for it, let alone... ! I feel we are going to talk about this

:55:03.:55:13.
:55:13.:55:35.

get an update on the Power Bar to see who has won this debate. Overall

:55:35.:55:39.

tonight the final 30 seconds will go to who has done best throughout the

:55:39.:55:45.

show. And I can reveal that panellist is... Colum. Your 30

:55:45.:55:54.

seconds! I was sure that Zoe was going to win. All I would say was it

:55:54.:55:58.

is good to be involved in this kind of discussion. I think young people

:55:58.:56:03.

are often seen and not heard. People always talk about young people being

:56:03.:56:07.

the future. I think they are our present as well and it is important

:56:07.:56:10.

every single young person gets involved in whatever way possible to

:56:10.:56:14.

make sure we have a genuine, does it give discussion. Look at the gay

:56:14.:56:17.

marriage issue, that is where the future is. Young people are leaving

:56:18.:56:21.

that like they have led so many issues in the past. Keep it up and

:56:21.:56:31.
:56:31.:56:34.

and our panel. The debate continues online. Join us on June 12 in

:56:34.:56:44.
:56:44.:56:50.

clothes were made in? I think it is from America. Made in Lithuania.I

:56:50.:57:00.
:57:00.:57:01.

In the lead up to Radio 1's Big Weekend from Derry/Londonderry, Rick Edwards presents a live debate from the UK's first City of Culture in front of an audience of 120 people aged 18-25.

Rick hears the opinions of the studio audience on the big stories of the day, with Tina Daheley (Radio 1 Newsbeat) relaying Twitter, Facebook and website messages from viewers at home.

A panel of celebrities, politicians and local activists discuss the high price of cheap clothes in light of the clothing factory tragedy in Dhaka which killed over 700 people. Ethical consumerists go head-to-head with those who can only afford cheaper clothing. Other topical issues will be added to the debate as the news unfolds.

Derry/Londonderry was once the global centre of shirtmaking, but with work transferring abroad it now has the highest youth unemployment rate in Northern Ireland. Do the young people in the audience see any hope of long-term employment returning to the city?


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