Episode 1 Free Speech


Episode 1

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Hello, we are back for a new series of Free Speech. The show which makes

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your voice heard in the national conversation. CHEERING AND APPLAUSE.

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Welcome to Free Speech. Tonight we are live from outside Birmingham

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central mosque. They are all here to tell us what they think and we want

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to hear what you think. We want to hear your voice at home in this

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show. Here are the addresses you need. Your answers and your comments

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will come straight to me. I will make sure they're heard. And we are

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running the power bar. This time we will focus on the question at the

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heart of each debate. Use the hashtag Free Speech yes or Free

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Speech no to let us know what you think. Here is your panel. Heydon

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Prowse, Shazia Awan, Mehdi Hasan, Baroness Susan Kramer. That is your

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panel. Right, our first debate is about an issue that is very close to

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home. What is occurring. BBC Three is going off air. Today, BBC has got

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whiter, older and more middle class, because it is the BBC Three audience

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that is the most diverse of all their channels. It is a mass yir

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shame for the BBC. -- massive shame for the BBC. BBC Three plays a vital

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role. It does risky and different things and there is nowhere else on

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the BBC that we can do that. If you're to choose between BBC Three

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and BBC Four, that is where the audience is going. It is moving

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online on to iPlayer. It is the beginning of a challenge to BBC

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Three to say now move what you do so well into the environment which

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younger audiences are living in. An environment where things are on

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demand and people are wanting things when they want it. Wherever they

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happen to be. That is the challenge. The BBC Three petition has 200,000

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signatures. All week you have been clicking like on the questions you

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want to see on the show. Here is our leader board with the top questions.

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We have the BBC's director of television Danny Cohen joining us

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live. First Heydon. Is it right to move BBC three off television

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screens. No. Why not? I would say that when this was first pitched us

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to it was pitched as a cost cutting exercise, but that hasn't been the

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case. It is only ?15 million that is being saved, which is a drop in the

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ocean when it comes to the BBC. The red button costs ?15 million.

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Executive pay is ?20 million. We are spending 30 million on Formula One.

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So there are plenty of things we could be saving. Cutting the one

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youth channel isn't the answer. You're nodding Paris. Do you agree.

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I do and I don't. Make your mind up! It is a valid point. We should put

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the fat cats' pay at the top. The suits and the rich older white guys

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are shafting young people again. But another part of me thinks television

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is becoming irrelevant to young people and this is a PR disaster,

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because everyone is watching net flicks and YouTube, if they had spun

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it differently and said it is online, people would be responding

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differently to this debate. What do you think about that Heydon? It is

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only 4% of the entire BBC Three audience watching op iPlayer. It is

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a fraction. It is important to have a youth channel. You look at the

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level of British talent at the Oscars, who is the next generation

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to be creating the new Mighty Boosh or the new Gavin and Staceys? It is

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sidelined back online. When we first started, it was such an effort to

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get the thing on TV. Everyone turned us away, including Channel 4, which

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is considered the alternative Channel. Getting it on devolution

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where people do consume their content was a major achievement.

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Side lining it again it saying to young people, we won't believe in

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you, you won't train you to be the best and encouraging people to be

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the best they can and going into industries like Hollywood and

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representing Britain. But if they won't be watching television, we

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know in London the biggest group of people that the BBC is not meeting

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is young urban professionals. It all has to change. I would rather see...

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Radio for the older people go. But some thing has to give. The older

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people are very well served with BBC1 and two and BBC Four and it

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wouldn't be a massive sacrifice to subsume BBC Four into BBC Two. It

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could be part of BBC Two and everyone would be catered for. What

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do you want to say? I think that the, although the BBC Three do show

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youth programmes, the videos we watch, they're saying that the youth

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have moved to online. But that defeats the point of youth having a

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very powerful message and if we are saying, yeah it will be online, what

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about everyone else that the youth can influence? They're watching TV.

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If we have taken from it TV, it is automatically taking it from

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everyone else. We want a show that youth do have valid points and we

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are the next generation. So... It needs to be on TV. So the point is

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the youth voice will get marginalised by this moving? I think

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it will be. I wish I was a youth voice still. I'm not an exact target

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figure. But I don't buy the money idea. You're about to talk to Danny

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Cohen. It will save ?15 million. The BBC has to save ?700 million.

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Compared to ?200 million they spent on moving to Salford and 150 million

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wasted on a digital media initiative that was scrapped. They spend

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millions on payouts for executives who are leaving and the Government

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that Susan is part of froze the licence fee, saying we have to make

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savings. The same Government that cut the top rate of tax on

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millionaires, scrapped the banker's tax and gave subsidies to energy and

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rail companies. Susan? You pointed out that the BBC has an enormous

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amount of waste. You gave some huge examples of wasted money. So me the

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question is should we be campaigning to get BBC Three on television? I'm

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worried about it coming off. But I am an old person and I watch

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typically old television. I have got two questions - that is if it goes

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on online would you still watch it? And the second question is, should

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it be on the other channels so that old people like me have to see the

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programmes that you want to see made, so that we are not in a sense

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cut off from what is happening? That is the problem. I'm not saying

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you're ignorant. Just because it is directed at youth doesn't mean you

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cannot learn from it. But should it be on BBC1 so I can see it? Of

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course, but are we getting that? I want to bring in Danny Cohen. You're

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listening to this and heard Mehdi say the argument Ake saving --

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saving money is ludicrous. Is it? Danny? I would like to correct. Can

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you hear me? Yes. Just on the finances, we are not saving ?15

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million by doing this. We are saving 50 million a year. So there is a big

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saving. In terms of where we put our programmes, we are going to repeat

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all the BBC Three online content on BBC one and two and so it will get a

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showing and reach more people. We have to save money. We don't have a

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choice but to do that. This is, we think the most effective way to do

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it. You say you're saying 50 million, but 30 million has been put

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into BBC drama hasn't it? Your right to say we want to reinvest in

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different places. We want to make sure that shows like Sherlock and

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Doctor Who and the musketeers have the budgets they need. Those

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programmes are very popular with young people. Along with The

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Apprentice and The Voice. We have to protect those budgets and maintain

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those budgets and we can't do everything. We are at a point in the

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BBC's history, where we can't stretch the elastic further and we

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have got to make some big choices. OK. Would you agree with this?

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Shazia? I think cost savings have to be made. But that is because the BBC

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has been run badly. If we look back over the years, the BBC tried to

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close 6 Music and people campaigned and the BBC tried to close the Asian

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network and 180,000 Facebook signatures. So I feel the BBC, the

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chaps at the top, the Director General and Danny, they're not

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really thinking these things through. It just seems they

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backtrack on decisions and what might have been a better idea would

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have been to say, look, we are thinking about closing BBC Three and

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put to it the young people that watch it. Young people struggle to

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have a voice in this democratic process. Why weren't they asked,

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rather than being dictated to, we are closing it, that is it? We have

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had cuts to careers advice. Everything seems to be, oh, young

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people don't matter. Why should we be cut, shouldn't it be out of

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something else, we should have the voice? Without BBC Three and Free

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Speech we wouldn't have a voice. APPLAUSE What is your come back to

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that? So, the first thing to say is, BBC Three is not closing, we are

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moving it online. It's not the same thing. We are going to show all

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these programmes online where more and more young people are watching

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them. We will repeat them on BBC One and BBC Two. I think the other thing

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worth saying is, in the 90s the BBC had a lot of criticism for investing

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in news online and online generally. Money was taken out of content to

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start these new services. Thank God that was done at the time.

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Similarly, 10 or 15 years ago we put money into the i player to get the

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iPlayer going. People were critical of the BBC for taking money out of

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existing things and investing in the future. That is what we are trying

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to do again, it's difficult and painful. I used to run BBC Three, I

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launch shows from Being Human, Blood Sweat and T-shirts, many others. I

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have to make decisions in the end that benefit the whole of the BBC. I

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believe we can still keep delivering for young people and keep BBC One

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and BBC Two strong. Do you think this has come early though? You were

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quoted as saying, if you were given an entirely free hand you would have

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done it in four or five years time, this is much riskier? Yes, I do. If

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I had a free hand we would have made this decision in three or four

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years' time. We haven't got enough money to do everything. We haven't

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got enough money to keep those big shows going and keep BBC Three going

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in its current form. We had to be realistic about that. We know this

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is a gamble. We know this is tricky. I continue to be very committed to

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these audiences in the way I was when I ran BBC Three. I used to run

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E4 and commissioned The Betweeners and Skins there, I'm committed to

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these audiences. I had to make changes. The BBC had to make

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changes. We haven't got enough money to do everything. We want to protect

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the budget and not make budget cuts across the board at the BBC. Does

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that seem fair to you? No. No. Currently there is 300,000 children

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in the UK that have access to online facilities in their home. How are

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these people going to get a voice when they don't actually have access

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to actually the channel where they can actually enable them to have a

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voice? Good point. Gentleman at the back, here in the glasses. I agree

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that people don't have the internet to get online. If young people think

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BBC Three is the only way they can have a voice the Government need to

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do more to empower young people to get up and make their voice heard.

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MAybe. Danny and the other BBC bosses are doing something that is

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self defeating. If young people here think, the one channel we have got

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is being cut away to save money, they will be less interested in

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supporting the BBC and less interested in supporting the license

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fee. They are losing a BBC audience here by getting rid of this channel.

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It's self-defeating in the long run. Danny said that all the original

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programmes would go on BBC One and BBC Two. Lots of tweets about Family

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Guy. The BBC confirmed it's unable to put Family Guy on iPlayer. When

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BBC goes they won't be showing it. They have not thought it through,

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have they? The TV Licence, isn't it about time BBC scrapped the TV

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Licence, opt-in, not forced in. What is your response to that, Susan? I

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value the BBC. I don't think you would have it, or anything close to

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it, if we didn't have the licence fee. I would be happy to pay more on

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the licence fee, I can afford it. The question is, can a lot of other

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people, the answer is, at the moment it's difficult to pay more. We have

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to recognise that. I recognise choices. I say to people, if you

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want to keep BBC Three, campaign for it. Be really honest. If you

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actually look at it and think - I would really use it online, then be

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honest about that. If you think it would be really important to get it

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on BBC One and BBC Two, then pressure them to make sure it goes

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on BBC One and BBC Two. But let's not just protect it for the sake of

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it. But if it is crucial, to keep the talent coming. To keep young

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people engaged, it has an extraordinary value and that is

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worth fighting for. Yes. I think, at the end of the day, if you are going

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to have BBC Three it's the only channel that we have that Family Guy

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and all of that. If it is put on BBC One and BBC Two, we won't have all

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the channels as the older generation will want to watch it. That is the

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only channel we want to watch. If we are the future generation we have to

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have a say on what is going on on the television. You said it's your

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choice to watch it online. A lot of students don't have that choice. A

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lot of children within schools don't have that choice. For them to go

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home, watch programmes that allows them to engage in debate and issue

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means they are not excluded from the classroom than they already are. BBC

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Three needs to stay for those children alone. This gentleman here.

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Hi. Don't say hello to the microphone, it's embarrassing! Why

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aren't we axing BBC Four. I've never watched BBC Four in my life! Danny

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still there, can we ask him that question? Yeah, hi, Rick. On that

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point about online. What we are saying is, because we are repeating

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the shows on BBC One and BBC Two, if you can't get online you will see

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these shows anyway. There is no reason why people won't be able to

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see the content they are seeing now. What about the subsequent question,

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why not axe BBC Four? Was that ever on the table? Well, we looked at all

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of the options and we think that BBC Three is the right thing to do

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because young people are more comfortable online, more online than

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older people. We think it's the right thing to start with. If the

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BBC does suffer further cuts we will have to look at BBC Four in the same

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way. Can I pick up on that. Even as a middle age white male I can't see

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the distinction between BBC Two and BBC Four, why axe BBC Three? The

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question we ran for the powerbar, at the bottom of the screen, people

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have been tweeting in. We asked, is it right to move BBC Three off

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television screens? 9% of you say yes, 91% of you say no. There you

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go. Fairly conclusive. Going back to the license fee. You look at all the

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best show that are made, not just in my opinion what is best, what people

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generally love, shows like Doctor Who, Sherlock, the best programmes

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are generally BBC made. It makes sense to pay the licence veto get

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better content out of it. The lady here. I think it should go off air.

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If it is to be moved to BBC One and Two why keep the channel anyway. The

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point about the TV Licence, I pay the Licence I don't want the BBC

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shows - You are getting mugged off! It should be an option to pay it not

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to be forced to pay it. That is what I think anyway. How would you

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counter that? If the biggest shows on BBC Three will be put on BBC One

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and BBC Two, what is the problem? Full disclose sure in terms of cost

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savings, BBC bought me a first-class ticket down here. That should be the

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first to go! I didn't get one! Did you not? No! I had to put it on the

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table I was feeling guilty. You will walk home, it's OK. I don't think

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that's being totally honest with the people here. I think in reality what

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is going to happen is there will be less programming on BBC Three. A lot

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like Danny is saying, that money won't really be a cost-saving that

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go into drama on BBC One which is well served. We are kind of being a

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bit, sort of, you know, poetic with the truth here if we say that all

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the content that BBC Three is giving us will remain on BBC One and Two,

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it's not. There a slight element, I'm worried about this - Can I

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answer on that People like you and me trying to preserve their own

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jobs? It isn't about my job. I have a third series of my show

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commissioned, which will go into next year. I will be all right,

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frankly. It's about the new generation and people out there a

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that I know who I'm working with right now. It's that generation that

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will get done over. OK. Danny, do you want to have one final word. We

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saw from our powerbar that 91% think BBC Three should not go off air. I

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know it's a difficult decision, I understand that. I found it quite

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painful in many ways. Being online will help with our invasion. We are

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committed to showing the content on BBC One and BBC Two. We will do with

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that with great passion as we have done with BBC Three on years. We

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will do it online digitally and continue to make great shows like

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Sherlock, Doctor Who and The Voice. Thank you very much. We will move on

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to our next question. It will come from Stephen Williams. Where is

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Stephen? What do you want to ask? Our Government policies to tackle

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youth unemployment working? Are they? No. Youth unemployment is

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falling, which is a good thing. It's back to where it was in 2011. We

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still have nearly a million young people out of work. The number of

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young people who are long-term unemployed, who who have been on job

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ker's allowance for more than a year has doubled under this government.

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We are creating a lost generation in front of our eyes. It's a scandal.

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Young people are more likely to be unemployed for longer in their life.

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It costs the exchequer, it costs the country ?300 million to ?400

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million, long-term unemployment. No, I think it's a scanned Town Hall

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that one in five young people are out of work and it hasn't shifted at

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all in the last four years of this government. Paris, is it a question

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of throwing money at the problem? Yeah, I graduated four years ago and

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I still don't have a full-time job. My mum has been looking for work.

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She has years in the work industry. And, it's all right these Tories and

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Lib Dems taking everyone off benefits and making people move into

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smaller houses and taking everything away from everyone. You can't tell

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people to get a job if there aren't jobs to go to. Even people with

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educations and experience can't find work. This is why I like what Labour

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will do now, or they say they will do, if you have been out of work for

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more than a year, you are aged between 16-24 they will put you in

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work for a year and something to do for six months. They are the only

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party that are saying, we will give you some jobs. They have my vote for

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the next election. Labour don't have a clue about how to run their own

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party let alone run a business. How will Labour give jobs, this is the

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thing? When Ed Miliband announced these plans for the Labour, you know

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- exactly. Basically, he couldn't name one company, one private

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company that would actually subscribe to that scheme. This is

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it. Labour are saying the scheme would be people 16-24. You have to,

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you know, absolutely mandatory for young if you have been unemployed

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for a year. If you don't take any old job, effectively you are are

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benefits will be cut there will be other penalties. How is that fair on

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the 16-24 age group who you are forcing young people into grobs jobs

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they may not want or the talent for, it's not fair on employers either.

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The answer is to encourage more entrepreneurship. That is the

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answer. The way Labour are looking to fund their scheme as well is by

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of course we will give a big cheer to cutting bankers' bonuses and

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taking it from that, they are being looking then to, you know, cut tax

:25:51.:25:58.

relief on pensions as well. So effectively - On people who earn

:25:59.:26:06.

more than ?150,000 a year! 1% of the population. It's about we are all in

:26:07.:26:10.

this together, remember, wasn't that your party's slogan! 1%. We have

:26:11.:26:25.

people - We have people sitting here watching this programme that are

:26:26.:26:28.

hungry they haven't enough money to feed themselves and their families.

:26:29.:26:31.

The people who have the power who run this country don't want to pay

:26:32.:26:34.

people a living wage they send things to factories abroad where

:26:35.:26:37.

they pay people 50p a day. Encouraging entrepreneurs will have

:26:38.:26:40.

a trickle down effect, I just don't buy it. We have a problem with your

:26:41.:26:48.

microphone. I will get you to pipe down. Sorry. (inaudible) I'm sorry,

:26:49.:26:54.

we have a lot of microphone problems this evening. I would get rid of

:26:55.:26:58.

this show! Say that again, just from the start. One of them is education

:26:59.:27:09.

system in the country. That starts from teaching more life skills

:27:10.:27:24.

within our education system. That starts with teacher communication

:27:25.:27:26.

skills, developing young people skills that need to maintain a job.

:27:27.:27:31.

Again, I agree with you, pushing employment entrepreneurship. The

:27:32.:27:42.

trouble is the reason we have such like strong support for pensioners

:27:43.:27:44.

is because old people vote, young people are not voting. So there is

:27:45.:27:49.

no pressure. Young people need to take responsibility and start voting

:27:50.:27:54.

and make their voice heard. I will do this whole row. We have got this

:27:55.:28:00.

government, they're pushing young people from pillar to post.

:28:01.:28:03.

Specially if they're unemployed, trying to sanction them for not

:28:04.:28:06.

going to the job centre, because you have an interview for a job. There

:28:07.:28:13.

is two and a half million people unemploye But there is only half a

:28:14.:28:20.

million vacancies. What I say to Shazia, I am not an expert but there

:28:21.:28:24.

are ?750 billion in the reserves of British companies and money

:28:25.:28:35.

uncollected in tax. Why don't we use some of that wealth of the 1%?

:28:36.:28:46.

Susan? I was going to say if you're out of work, no one is not doing

:28:47.:28:49.

enough from the perspective you have got. We are trying to turn around a

:28:50.:28:55.

deep problem. We had a recession. Companies don't invest when there

:28:56.:28:58.

has been a recession and we have been trying to get the recovery

:28:59.:29:06.

going. That is starting to build. If you're a young person, there has

:29:07.:29:09.

been a problem over youth unemployment that goes back a long

:29:10.:29:13.

timement a lot of it is people having the wrong skills, somebody

:29:14.:29:15.

used the word education, that is right. Under the last government,

:29:16.:29:22.

apprentices were a rude word. Now we have more. Work experience didn't

:29:23.:29:34.

have a programme. There are 100,000 in work experience. I say about

:29:35.:29:36.

Labour's programme. It is identical to one they had and it didn't work.

:29:37.:29:42.

It ended up putting youngsters into the public sector. No better than

:29:43.:29:48.

work experience and put them into the public sector and for lasting

:29:49.:29:52.

jobs you need to be in the private sector. So you have got a genuine

:29:53.:29:58.

future. So those changes will get us there. But it is a serious problem

:29:59.:30:03.

and I don't agree it is one people are not taking notice of. It worries

:30:04.:30:07.

people and we have to do more, but it must be effective. This one,

:30:08.:30:14.

there are millions out of work because of zero hour contracts. That

:30:15.:30:22.

is what most companies offer. And this one saying, from Tony, youth

:30:23.:30:25.

unemployment due to uncontrolled EU immigration. Mehdi? A couple of

:30:26.:30:42.

points. In 2010 your Government got rid of the future jobs fund. Which

:30:43.:30:45.

was not a successful programme. You say it wasn't successful. The

:30:46.:30:48.

department of work and pensions own research said it was. You talk about

:30:49.:30:58.

education... Tell the economists in your government department and

:30:59.:31:01.

listen on the issue of education, I am with you on education. Your

:31:02.:31:04.

government scrapped the Education Maintenance Allowance and tripled

:31:05.:31:16.

tuition tuition fees. EU migration is to blame? No in areas with high

:31:17.:31:29.

migration, it has gone up more where there is no migration. Can I say we

:31:30.:31:32.

need to shoulder some responsibility ourselves. Because it was 16 to

:31:33.:31:37.

30-year-olds as many people didn't vote as voted Tory in the last

:31:38.:31:41.

election. You need to go out and vote and then people will listen to

:31:42.:31:44.

you. They are scared about people not voting. If they think you're

:31:45.:31:48.

going to vote, they will listen to you. You have a power and we are not

:31:49.:31:55.

using it. Yes the lady in the yellow. How can you say that youth

:31:56.:32:00.

unemployment is because it is being helped by the Tory and Liberal

:32:01.:32:05.

Democrat government when it is not. You're cutting education and things

:32:06.:32:08.

that will help people grow and Labour are making empty promises by

:32:09.:32:11.

forcing them into things that won't work. You have more people at

:32:12.:32:17.

university, more... They can't find jobs though. But you're saying

:32:18.:32:24.

you're cutting education. I say we are not. We have the pupil premium

:32:25.:32:29.

to help kids from disadvantaged backgrounds. What good is it if

:32:30.:32:36.

there is no jobs. You have to grow the economy and you had a Government

:32:37.:32:39.

undermining the economy and so it crashed, you have to willed it --

:32:40.:32:50.

build it back up. That is tough. We are talking about the economy. How

:32:51.:32:53.

do we build the economy? You build the economy... One thing. It is not

:32:54.:33:01.

real. OK, everyone settle down. Heydon. The housing bubble isn't an

:33:02.:33:05.

economic recovery and creating another huge housing bubble which

:33:06.:33:08.

will probably burst after the next election isn't a recovery and maybe

:33:09.:33:16.

the Tories don't care about that. The people who are in work and

:33:17.:33:19.

seeing improvements in their wages, this is a genuine recovery. Why are

:33:20.:33:23.

so many young people out of work? There is a real issue and I face up

:33:24.:33:30.

to that. It is one we have to crack. Because older people have been

:33:31.:33:33.

hanging on to their jobs. It is a question of why aren't people hiring

:33:34.:33:37.

younger people. A big part is skills-based. But you know it is

:33:38.:33:43.

maths, I mean every firm I talk to is dying for engineers and people

:33:44.:33:51.

who have done a bit of science. You could go out and go to small

:33:52.:33:54.

businesses all over the country and find those jobs empty today. You can

:33:55.:33:59.

go to people who design video games, all the way down, they have got

:34:00.:34:03.

empty jobs. We do have to make sure that people have a chance to get

:34:04.:34:09.

those jobs. You go outside of London and people don't feel there is any

:34:10.:34:12.

economic recovery. I can find those people in Birmingham. It benefits

:34:13.:34:17.

wealthy middle aged white people, just like the cuts to BBC Three.

:34:18.:34:24.

You're in Birmingham. It is a chance, go out and meet some of the

:34:25.:34:28.

businesses and they will tell you what they are look for. Which are

:34:29.:34:31.

those skills. We have got to make sure that young people have the

:34:32.:34:35.

skills to get the jobs. Are you saying the jobs are there but people

:34:36.:34:39.

are not educated enough? The key problem is. I'm the only one who

:34:40.:34:50.

does haven't a political drum to bash. I'm an ex-Tory candidate. So

:34:51.:34:57.

you do have a drum. The problem is there are people in government,

:34:58.:34:59.

Liberal Democrats, Tories, you know Labour, that have no idea about how

:35:00.:35:07.

to run a business. If they have no idea how to run a business and make

:35:08.:35:10.

cost savings, how are they in government? We need more people that

:35:11.:35:14.

understand business, more people that understand entrepreneurship and

:35:15.:35:16.

in government and the reason why people like me are taking a back

:35:17.:35:20.

seat with politics, Mehdi asked me, will you stand in the election. I

:35:21.:35:28.

said no, I'm not, because I can do more in business. This is the

:35:29.:35:33.

problem. You have people in politics that really don't understand about

:35:34.:35:36.

job creation, because all they have ever been is career politicians. We

:35:37.:35:46.

need much less of that. We are going to move on. This is one that has

:35:47.:35:51.

caused the most comments on the audience questions pain. -- page. It

:35:52.:35:56.

comes from Britain's first gay Muslim drag queen. I talk about

:35:57.:36:03.

issues of being Muslim gay and British in today's society. These

:36:04.:36:09.

labels you know, they shouldn't fit well together. But here I am and I

:36:10.:36:14.

refuse to give one up over the other. I kept it to myself for

:36:15.:36:18.

years, because I was afraid of what the community would say and what my

:36:19.:36:23.

parents would say. I came out to my parents in my 20s. My mum came into

:36:24.:36:28.

my room and questioned me about my sexuality. I said this in Urdu,

:36:29.:36:47.

which is my mother tongue, I'm gay. There was an occasion where my mum

:36:48.:36:50.

asked whether I needed to see a doctor. I said it isn't something I

:36:51.:36:53.

can take a medicine for. I introduced my partner adds this is

:36:54.:36:57.

the person I want to marry. Although I entered into a civil partnership,

:36:58.:37:00.

they saw it equal as a marriage and my mum ended up attending the

:37:01.:37:03.

ceremony and giving me away and giving us... Her blessing. It sounds

:37:04.:37:10.

a cliche, but it was the best moment of my life. The character has

:37:11.:37:15.

allowed me to reach out to many people that I wouldn't be able to.

:37:16.:37:20.

My mum and my aunties and my sisters came to see one of my shows. The gay

:37:21.:37:25.

community were just inspired and in awe that a Muslim woman, dressed had

:37:26.:37:29.

come into a gay space and was watching cabaret drag. One question

:37:30.:37:39.

I would like the ask the Muslim community, when will bit right to be

:37:40.:37:46.

Muslim and gay? We were going to debate that question but after

:37:47.:37:49.

speaking to the mosque they have exprenssed concerns with having this

:37:50.:37:55.

discussion here. The mosque were happy for us to play the video and

:37:56.:37:59.

we will talk about it on our next programme. Now our next question. I

:38:00.:38:07.

wanted to say do you think today's youth are too disengaged within

:38:08.:38:14.

society. I wanted to mention what Paris mentioned, there is a onus on

:38:15.:38:18.

young people to do something, but it is scary that we are in a generation

:38:19.:38:21.

where someone can recite every lyric to a Drake song, but can't tell you

:38:22.:38:29.

who their local councillor is. The question is why are the youth of

:38:30.:38:40.

today disaffected. Paris? You mentioned it before, why is it? Come

:38:41.:38:46.

on, we all know. We know who is running the show. It is not poor

:38:47.:38:50.

black women. It is rich, white men from middle class back grounds and

:38:51.:38:54.

it is every where and it is a cliche, but it is the media, the

:38:55.:38:56.

newspapers, it is the business owners. You get women business

:38:57.:39:03.

owners and people from other backgrounds. But the people with the

:39:04.:39:07.

power come from a very certain background. And actually look at

:39:08.:39:13.

this room. Look how diverse it is and all these different people. That

:39:14.:39:18.

is not represented in the people that make the decisions. I feel a

:39:19.:39:21.

lot of people feel increasingly put off and it concerned me when

:39:22.:39:24.

everyone was talking about BBC Three, people are so passionate

:39:25.:39:35.

about it not going. Because they say nothing else caters for us. But

:39:36.:39:38.

young people are the future and lot of the big issues, lack of

:39:39.:39:41.

affordable housing, lack of jobs, you know tuition fees and things

:39:42.:39:44.

like that, it affects middle aged white men, but it affects young

:39:45.:39:54.

people. People feel disengaged and we need to do something about it.

:39:55.:40:02.

Susan? What will you do about getting more young people to vote? I

:40:03.:40:08.

tell you I scratch my head on this for ages. Trying to talk to schools

:40:09.:40:13.

and go to colleges understanding coming on here -- coming on here.

:40:14.:40:18.

Please this is your country, these are your lives, it is not that you

:40:19.:40:22.

have to get in there and vote for one of the political parties, but if

:40:23.:40:25.

you think they share your views, participate. But engage, because I

:40:26.:40:37.

think it is absolutely vital for our society. I don't know how somebody

:40:38.:40:43.

like me persuades people like you to actually do it. Because everything

:40:44.:40:49.

that I do is looked at as somebody who is in a position of power. Doing

:40:50.:40:54.

something to people. I don't know how to get you to engage. I don't

:40:55.:40:58.

have the answers. Is that what we want to hear somebody from the

:40:59.:41:04.

Government saying, you don't know? You said there is jobs out there,

:41:05.:41:07.

but people don't have qualifications, I have got a degree

:41:08.:41:12.

and there are no jobs. Listen to people. They know what the issues

:41:13.:41:16.

are. You need to listen to them. That is your job. Susan, one thing,

:41:17.:41:28.

in 2010 young people did get engaged by your party leader and many voted

:41:29.:41:32.

for him and he let them down. I agree with that. Just on a broader

:41:33.:41:42.

point, young people have always been the most idealistic and ambitious,

:41:43.:41:45.

and I think to be honest I don't blame then when they goat bored by

:41:46.:41:48.

-- get bored by our bland politicians. Young people go and

:41:49.:42:03.

campaign. But they are disengaged from the Parliamentary political

:42:04.:42:05.

process, they feel it is not working. You can't just look at

:42:06.:42:08.

government as something that picks up, it is not app idea from down at

:42:09.:42:12.

the pub, you have to be able to implement it. And look at the

:42:13.:42:15.

consequences. We talked about BBC Three earlier, if the answer is you

:42:16.:42:18.

have to increase the licence fee you have to talk to the people that pay

:42:19.:42:22.

it and tell them they're going to pay more. You have got a lot, you

:42:23.:42:33.

have got to rebuild the economy and get businesses to grow. You can't

:42:34.:42:37.

say, walk down and just create some jobs. You have got to get the

:42:38.:42:40.

businesses to have confidence in the economy and to invest and get the

:42:41.:42:44.

match of skills and work through an education system that takes years.

:42:45.:42:46.

It is not instant magic. But young people can get engaged if that. We

:42:47.:42:56.

asked everybody at home what they think and if they think young people

:42:57.:43:01.

are disengaged. The results: Susan says: I wasn't blaming old people, I

:43:02.:43:04.

say what is actually rather interesting is that older people

:43:05.:43:07.

kept their jobs during the recession, which is a good thing.

:43:08.:43:21.

You don't want even more people out of work, is all I can say. One of

:43:22.:43:25.

the things that means there is a difference in the skill base of

:43:26.:43:28.

older people and the skill base of young people. We have to find a way

:43:29.:43:32.

to close some of that for the future. We can't have that huge gap.

:43:33.:43:36.

Experience counts, but the skills that young people can bring are

:43:37.:43:41.

absolutely vital. It's easy to see, this question, Susan went round in

:43:42.:43:44.

circles, you have talked about all kind of things. Why aren't young

:43:45.:43:49.

people voting? Look at how diverse this audience is. The problem is,

:43:50.:43:55.

parliament isn't like that. Young people don't see anyone that they

:43:56.:43:59.

recognise like themselves. APPLAUSE That is the problem. You can skirt

:44:00.:44:05.

around the issue as much as you like. That is the core problem.

:44:06.:44:08.

Until that changes young people won't have a voice and not vote.

:44:09.:44:11.

Look how engaged people are in politics? How much youth, I hope I'm

:44:12.:44:15.

still youth, look how many turned out for the tuition fees protest.

:44:16.:44:25.

Young people care. More people voted in X Factor than in the last

:44:26.:44:32.

election. That is a depressing fact. It's easy to say - young people are

:44:33.:44:36.

let down by the Liberal Democrats, which they were. You have another

:44:37.:44:40.

option, if no-one represents you in parliament, scratch your ballot that

:44:41.:44:43.

is a protest. Why aren't people doing that? What do you do when they

:44:44.:45:02.

shaft you? It's a wasted vote. Gentleman who asked the question

:45:03.:45:05.

earlier. When you talk about engaging young people, you talked

:45:06.:45:07.

about the 2012 elections people were queueing up outside polling

:45:08.:45:10.

stations. What work has been done to reform our voting system and

:45:11.:45:13.

structure so that BBC Three is moving online. We can debate around

:45:14.:45:17.

that, essentially they are I thissing, young people are using

:45:18.:45:20.

online more than they are going out to - watching television. So, with

:45:21.:45:25.

that in mind, to what extent is the voting system thinking - right,

:45:26.:45:29.

let's allow people to vote online? Be more forward thinking. Let's have

:45:30.:45:33.

modern techniques rather than scratching on a piece of paper. Why

:45:34.:45:39.

aren't we pressing buttons in supermarkets when we bought milk, to

:45:40.:45:45.

make it easier and simpler. That is how you engage people. Are those

:45:46.:45:49.

polling stations thinking about young people are. Where are young

:45:50.:45:54.

people and what do they do. We get your point go, go online. The big

:45:55.:46:06.

fear, fraud is easier. There is a real fear of somebody faking it and

:46:07.:46:09.

making sure they can take an election etc, etc. I think you are

:46:10.:46:13.

right. We have to change the way we vote. We have to get more

:46:14.:46:16.

intelligent. Why isn't it on weekends? Why shouldn't it be

:46:17.:46:19.

different hours? There are mechanical things we do. Would

:46:20.:46:27.

people get engaged themselves. You have be to registered to vote. 95%

:46:28.:46:31.

of pensioners are registered compared to 50%. Your Government is

:46:32.:46:35.

changing the rules to make it harder and less likely for people to vote

:46:36.:46:38.

bringing in individual registration rather than household registration.

:46:39.:46:51.

It cuts fraud. The reason they know the lyrics to Drake is they can

:46:52.:46:58.

relate. Who in charge can we re to regarding views? The young feel

:46:59.:47:11.

disengaged because they feel more at home online than using the social

:47:12.:47:14.

media Boot. This education, education, it should be compulsory,

:47:15.:47:17.

a full curriculum not just a basic information. The lady here, please.

:47:18.:47:31.

I run an organisation called Aspire for your social enterprise, I was a

:47:32.:47:34.

beneficiary of the social jobs fund. Six young people we had working with

:47:35.:47:38.

us. All of them are in full-time education or employment. I don't

:47:39.:47:41.

know where you got your facts from, they are incorrect. You are enable

:47:42.:47:44.

to engage with young people. Engage with the organisations that are

:47:45.:47:46.

already working on the ground such as Aspire for You. It's a cop out to

:47:47.:47:53.

say you don't know how to engage when you haven't worked or spoken to

:47:54.:47:56.

the people who are already doing that. There is a lot of engagement,

:47:57.:48:04.

as you know. There is a lot of engagement, as you know, with the

:48:05.:48:06.

charities, with social enterprises with others that work with young

:48:07.:48:12.

people. I'm sure if you want to engage with your local community if

:48:13.:48:15.

it has overlooked you it's incredibly sad. It's not true. I

:48:16.:48:21.

engage with the local community on a day-to-day basis. In the past week I

:48:22.:48:24.

heard two politicians say, we have never heard of social enterprise.

:48:25.:48:28.

You want to engage with young people - That's not true. I know many who

:48:29.:48:38.

have. Such as young people - Can you two swap numbers. They don't

:48:39.:48:43.

understand. You say, go out and vote, young people need to vote.

:48:44.:48:45.

They don't understand how politics work. Go in, get involved, to make

:48:46.:48:49.

policy to stand, to get their platforms out there. It's teaching

:48:50.:48:53.

them how to vote. Who is telling them the difference between Labour

:48:54.:48:55.

and the difference between Conservative? APPLAUSE OK, you two

:48:56.:49:04.

will talk later. We move on to our next and final question from Oliver.

:49:05.:49:09.

Where is Oliver. What do you want to ask? Should the electorate be given

:49:10.:49:13.

the right to decide whether we are in the EU and not be dictated to by

:49:14.:49:18.

the party leaders? So should there be a referendum on the EU? You came

:49:19.:49:26.

to me first. Yeah. No. No I don't think there should be a referendum

:49:27.:49:30.

on the EU. I will tell you why what we have been discussing. We have a

:49:31.:49:32.

youth unemployment crisis, half a million people using food banks in

:49:33.:49:35.

this country. Recovering from the worst financial crash in 100 years

:49:36.:49:39.

in country. The idea that the next Government should be debating

:49:40.:49:42.

whether we should be members of EU and having a referendum, devoting

:49:43.:49:45.

time on that would be a disgrace when people are suffering problems.

:49:46.:49:54.

The British public agree with me. Do you know how many people say it's

:49:55.:49:59.

important the European Union 2%. No, I don't think there is a need for a

:50:00.:50:03.

referendum on the EU just Nigel Farage and the Daily Mail. You say

:50:04.:50:13.

only 2% of the people say it's the most important issue. Tax everything

:50:14.:50:16.

else is far more important. Behind you those words say free speech.

:50:17.:50:22.

Let's have a referendum. No, we live in a representative democracy. You

:50:23.:50:27.

vote for MPs. You vote for your elected representatives to make

:50:28.:50:31.

lawings, debate and discuss. If you don't like them you vote them out.

:50:32.:50:34.

You don't have a referendum on every issue going. Europe is a pretty big

:50:35.:50:40.

issue we should have a referendum. Is it going to end the debate? Is it

:50:41.:50:44.

going to end the debate. People who are anti-Europe are going to be

:50:45.:50:47.

anti-Europe after the referendum, those who are pro-Europe will be

:50:48.:51:08.

pro-Europe after the referendum. A lot of people feel we need we need a

:51:09.:51:12.

referendum. Foo people think they need a referendum vote UKIP see how

:51:13.:51:15.

many votes they get from the British public. That viewpoint is ignorant

:51:16.:51:18.

it doesn't respect the fact in making a decision like that you are

:51:19.:51:21.

setting a precedent for the next sort of interpretation of British

:51:22.:51:24.

politics like the way that democracy is handled now doesn't reflect the

:51:25.:51:27.

way I feel or the way people around me feel. In moving forward we should

:51:28.:51:35.

definitely start by taking the first action, even if it's something we

:51:36.:51:39.

don't feel it is that important, it shows that at least we care. It

:51:40.:51:46.

represents something larger. The most important thing we have to do

:51:47.:51:56.

is build the economy. The conversation has been about jobs,

:51:57.:51:58.

about people, financial pressure, about opportunity. That is the

:51:59.:52:03.

absolute. The overhanging threat that we are going to end up with a

:52:04.:52:08.

referendum that could lead to out. If it's one thing that will dampen

:52:09.:52:12.

the economic recovery, that is it. I talk to businesses over and over

:52:13.:52:17.

again. They have got their business here because it's part of the EU.

:52:18.:52:20.

That is where they are selling to. That is where they are building

:52:21.:52:23.

their business. If we will not be part of it they put Nair new

:52:24.:52:26.

investment plans abroad they will move substantial parts of what they

:52:27.:52:31.

already have overseas. We have to get the recovery established. I'm

:52:32.:52:34.

happy to live with the idea that when there is a treaty change, that

:52:35.:52:37.

referendum that should come, there should be a referendum, when you

:52:38.:52:40.

transfer serious you new powers over from Westminster to Brussels. When

:52:41.:52:45.

you do, I'm happy for that to be in an in-out referendum. I think we

:52:46.:52:49.

have to stick to our priority which is getting this recovery in place,

:52:50.:52:57.

getting everybody back to work. That's getting our education system

:52:58.:53:00.

in shape, making sure we don't have disadvantaged children. This is low

:53:01.:53:06.

on the agenda. Let's deal with it when he are forced to by the events

:53:07.:53:10.

of the treaty change -- events of the treaty change. You are trying to

:53:11.:53:14.

dampen the EU issue by linking it to UKIP. Because someone wants out of

:53:15.:53:17.

the EU doesn't mean they will vote UKIP. Politicians are elected to

:53:18.:53:20.

represent us you need to start allowing us to show our views. At

:53:21.:53:25.

the end of the day, you guys are representing your own views in

:53:26.:53:28.

parliament. You are debating because you guys disagree with each other,

:53:29.:53:31.

you need to give us our right to vote and say we want out. You have

:53:32.:53:37.

European elections coming up. We are the party of in. If you want in,

:53:38.:53:41.

vote Liberal Democrat. If you don't want in, vote UKIP. There really is

:53:42.:53:46.

- You have a chance to express what you really want. The gentleman

:53:47.:53:54.

behind. Can you tell me how you will grow the economy when the living

:53:55.:53:58.

wage is a lot more than the minimum wage? Also 1.6 million apresent

:53:59.:54:01.

countrieses have developed within a year, how do you run a household on

:54:02.:54:05.

a an apprentice wage, it's not possible. They can't afford to live.

:54:06.:54:13.

How do you do that? Slightly off topic. A good point. I want to hear

:54:14.:54:22.

something from you. On the EU? Yes. It's the shame to turn down an

:54:23.:54:25.

opportunity to engage in direct democracy and vote on something. I

:54:26.:54:33.

don't think EU is the issuel we should be -- issue we should be

:54:34.:54:37.

doing that on. . UKIP are doing the best they can do to show how much

:54:38.:54:41.

waste there is in the EU by spending ?35,000 on average a year in

:54:42.:54:44.

expenses more than the national average living wage. But maybe that

:54:45.:54:50.

says something about that party. Paris? What the guys said earlier,

:54:51.:54:55.

why don't we change it up a little bit. Why aren't we voting for our

:54:56.:54:59.

televisions or why aren't you buying a pint of milling. -- milk. What

:55:00.:55:05.

gets lost in this debate is why Europe was formed. Europe has always

:55:06.:55:10.

been there. Because of the Second World War we decided that we wanted

:55:11.:55:14.

to come together politically. I would hate for us to leave Europe.

:55:15.:55:17.

We have been talking tonight about should - how do we get people

:55:18.:55:20.

involved with politics and tell people they can't have a referendum.

:55:21.:55:24.

So I don't think it's the most important issue, obviously some

:55:25.:55:28.

people feel strongly about it. Why don't we have a referendum every

:55:29.:55:32.

month on a different issue. You would get no governing done. All

:55:33.:55:38.

right saying we can't do it. How will you get people engaged with

:55:39.:55:41.

politics? Not through an EU referendum when only 2% of the

:55:42.:55:44.

public think it's an important issue. We are discussing it now some

:55:45.:55:49.

people think it's important - We are discussing it now People are engaged

:55:50.:55:52.

who have views talking about it. They are not people sitting at home

:55:53.:55:56.

who won't vote. If you ask the public if they want a referendum on

:55:57.:56:00.

X, Y and Z they will always say yes. That is all we have time for. We are

:56:01.:56:08.

off air until Tuesday 25th March, two weeks from now, when we will

:56:09.:56:11.

come from the Broadwater Farm housing estate in Tottenham. The

:56:12.:56:15.

action doesn't stop stop for Free Speech online. It has been reset and

:56:16.:56:26.

is waiting for your questions. This is your programme. We follow your

:56:27.:56:29.

agenda, good night. --

:56:30.:57:01.

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