Episode 5 Free Speech

This program is captioned live. Hello, and welcome to Free Speech.

The show which makes your voice heard in the national conversation.

I'm Rick Edwards. I'm Rick Edwards. I'm Tina Daheley. And welcome back!

Never mind Bake-Off or X-Factor, THIS is the TV return we've all been

waiting for. Or at least, I've been waiting for. For the next 12 weeks

we'll be here every other Tuesday to talk about the big issues of the

day. And, as you know, we can't do it without the help of our audience.

All of whom have, of course, been screened for their intelligence and

good looks. And this week, all from Edinburgh! Though it's not just this

audience which is important but you guys at home. Remember you can Tweet

at BBCFreeSpeech or Facebook your comments and I'll put them in the

debate. Here are the addresses you'll need. And as those of you who

have been following us on social media will know, we'll be talking

about the Israel-Palestine conflict and the issue of anti-Semitism

tonight. But first, being in Edinburgh there is, I believe,

another issue around. Yes, next Thursday Scotland will vote on

whether to become an independent country. We've divided our audience

into yes over here and no over there. And also here to make sense

of it all some of the finest minds from the Yes and No camps. Joan

McAlpine, journalist and MSP for the Scottish National Party. Ruth

Davidson, leader of the Scottish Conservative and Unionist party.

Actor Martin Compston. And Times and Spectator columnist, Hugo Rifkind.

And that's our panel. Question this evening. Would an independent

Scotland be a more democratic country? Yes, it would. We only have

9% of the MPs at Westminster at the moment. Westminster controls all of

Scotland's money and will continue to control it if we vote no so

therefore, having all those powers transferred to our own parliament in

Edinburgh, which we elected democratically proportional

representation, it's definitely an improvement and will make it a more

democratic place. The other thing is an independent Scotland will have a

written constitution. The UK is unusual, in not having a written

constitution to guarantee the rights of its citizens. We would guarantee

equality of rights to our citizens and other rights, such as the right

to free education, for example, so it will certainly be more democratic

than is under the current Westminster system. Roofs, you are

scowling. I think one thing Scotland doesn't like if politicians. We have

the mud cancellable, UK parliaments, a European level, and I think if you

look at the way people vote in Scotland, we understand the

differences. Joan talks about proportional representation. We had

a referendum on that and Scotland were rejected it. People understand

what first past the post is. With just a European election. Joan is

part of the most votes. In the European Parliament, they are the

second biggest group rather than the biggest. People understand if you

work with other people, there is give and take full that we have had

18 general elections since the war and for 12 of them, the party of

Scotland voted most for form to the Government of the UK. More than the

south of England. We have one Tory MP at the moment in Scotland and

military Government. We have a coalition Government has double the

amount of seed the SNP got in 2012. We didn't vote for a coalition

Government. You two, calm down for a bit. The gentleman up there. If you

look at the votes alone, combined, there was over one third of the

votes for Lib Dem and Tories. Yes, but they voted for a Lib Dem

programmer free university tuition which they immediately reversed when

I went into cahoots with the Tories. The gentleman here. I think it's a

disgrace Joan talks about representation in Westminster when

just as many SNP MPs turned up to repel the bedroom tax. There would

be no bedroom tax in independent Scotland and the Scottish Government

had to take money out of its own budget for education and other

things in order to mitigate the bedroom tax to get that it in

Scotland with an independent Scotland would have a bedroom tax on

the first place. This is exactly the heart of this. This is what it's all

about. It's ridiculous to suggest otherwise. Scotland wants a

Government that we will vote for every single time at every single

election that we can hold accountable, 12 out of 18 or

something. We want every single time, so we can stand up to things

like the bedroom tax, poll tax, illegal wars. People understand what

elections... They know the SNP are the sixth largest group in the

European Parliament because they understand when you work in other

countries in a union, on a big scale, but they understand when with

people you don't always get it all your own way. You are going to City

End tell me one out of 59 MPs decide our foreign policy it's fair. It's

12 because of the Coalition Government. Do you think that's

fair, 12 out of 59? Tell me if you think it's fair. I think it's fair

under parliamentary system. People voted for that what they wanted. 12

out of 59 is a fair thing? We're part UK Parliament and people

understand that. I think Ruth is not going to answer that. If there's one

thing Scotland is not about four that the House of Lords. There's no

other country in the European Union... You don't need to be a

nationalistic one together the House of Lords. Dust and want to get that

of the House of Lords. I'm a social democrat and I do not vote for the

SNP but the Green party and I simply want what the rest of Europe in

countries have which is a fully democratically elected parliament

and Government. We started about whether owned independent Scotland

would be more democratic country. The thing about independence, it

comes both ways. Joan pointed out only 9% of the Houses of Parliament

in Westminster comes from Scotland. Under independence, 0% of Houses of

Parliament in Westminster will come from Scotland. And yet, in the small

collection of islands the UK is, there are facts decided Westminster

which will remain decided in Westminster for them it will

dominate our currency, even under the SNP fantasy. Westminster will

set the tone of tax affairs which an independent Scotland would be able

to deviate from that much. Westminster will dictate a lot of

immigration policy with an open border. At the moment, Scotland has

a vote on that. It would be a weird situation of Scotland have a vote in

the European Parliament but not in Westminster when Westminster will

affect their lives far more. Personally, I don't want to see it

as a permanent solution is our country. I would like to see it in

the future like we had New Zealand, when they became independent, for

five years, they lose powers and basically after that period, they

could establish their own currency and not does have sport with the Yes

Campaign. -- support. There's a reason why the Yes Camp talks about

that and that's because people don't want to know that their savings and

pensions and salaries will be affected. If you're talking with a

separate currency from the word go, a Yes Vote would be promising. Let's

go to the online audiences saying at home. If Scotland leaves the UK,

it'll be a big loss for the Labour Party and so Conservative Government

in Westminster will become far more likely if Scotland leaves for some

interesting how the Conservatives strongly support the union even

though it's not in their own interests and actually helps Labour.

Conservative governments for the foreseeable future in England, if

Scotland votes yes, if that happens, I will be packing my bags and moving

away. How would you respond to someone like this would think of

moving away from Scotland? I think it's a ridiculous notion. It doesn't

make it any less Scottish if you vote yes or not. The one thing with

stuff like that, I think Scotland needs a strong Labour Party.

Scotland has support of the Labour Party for decades and I think it's

disgraceful the stamp Labour Party has taken here. A neutral stance on

this, you could vote with your head and heart of whichever way you

support because we need a strong Labour Party free from the shackles

of Westminster. We need independence and not the Labour Party run by a

numerous urgent Labour Party. We can only get that all independent

Scotland. I think what it comes down to in terms of democracy, I'm

worried after the recent television debates, could the SNP deliver

democracy when they can't even host a common debate without shouting and

talking over the opposition? That sort of thing, yes. Who says it's

going to be an SNP Government? We can vote for whoever we want. The

gentleman here. I think it's ridiculous to suggest if you have

51% of the electorate who may be supporting a Yes Vote, they will

vote for the SNP. I completely disagree with that. I'm from a

staunch Labour Party, and I think the SNP have done well. All my

family will be voting yes and voting Labour immediately after. All the

polls show Labour voters are moving towards Yes. 18% will vote no,

nearly 20%. We know the line, there are tartan Tories were gone SNP, who

believe in the UK and don't want to walk away from everything we built

in the last 300 years. If we could address the question which came in

on Twitter. It's an important one. People like Billy Bragg in England

has said a Yes Vote will re-democratise England as well

because we can show that social democratic values here in Scotland

work and we can stop the NHS being privatised and that will give a real

boost to those values in England. You have privatised. You've done it.

For the last seven years. We have very little input compared to

England. You have increased it by the December sent in the time of

your Government. You are wholly in charge. OK, we've got to go back. We

are talking about the so-called democracy here in the privatisation

of the NHS. What about the transatlantic investment partnership

which will destroy agriculture, the NHS, because other corporations will

be above our laws and makes as it genetically modified food. You

explain that from Westminster? What makes you think the stuff wouldn't

happen with independent Scotland? Alex Salmond has said it would be

especially good for Scotland. Nicola Sturgeon has gone on record saying

it would be especially good for Scotland. John Swinney has said it

would be especially good for Scotland. This is a free trade

agreement and I absolutely some point you're making but there are of

it you want to reserve or vote against, and that's fine, have that

negotiation, but don't think for one moment the SNP are not behind it.

They are. The TT IP... It applies to health. Large part of the health

service in England have been privatised. American companies will

be allowed to bid for any NHS work and because Scotland is not an

independent country, we would not be seen as separate even though our

health services separate so our health service, despite the fact

that got less than 1% input from private companies could find

themselves outbid. The SNP is totally opposed to any

privatisation. Does it back TT IP? Why does Alex Salmond say it would

be especially good for Scotland? Hang on. It will not apply to

health. Do you back TTIP? No. As you know very well. I think you got the

answer there. I'm not sure we did, but OK. Gentleman here? It is not

about Alex Salmond or Nicola Sturgeon or the SNP, we are looking

at a Green Party and the Scottish Labour Party, people are engaging

with politics for the first time. It doesn't matter who is in government.

It is change and something we have to embrace. It is a brilliant point.

It is we started talking about democracy. This is democracy at its

finest. Walking through the towns, the excitement and the hope, there

is a social revolution happening that is happening without any

violence the worse we have had is something getting hit with an egg.

It is brilliant to see people talking about it and the winds of

change are coming and we have this brilliant youth movement and thank

God for social media, I know the amount of scare stories have come

from a biased media, but people on Facebook and triter are standing up

and being counted. The future is not Ed Milliband or Osborne or David

Cameron. It is these people here, the youth. It is time for us to be

big, brave and take this country back. Voting no doesn't mean we

think the union is perfect. We want change, we just don't want to leave

it all, I would like to see a federalised United Kingdom, where

England gets what it wants and Scotland gets what it wants. It is

drastic to leave because some things aren't working. Let's fix it. That

is a good point. If Scotland doesn't win the independence vote, how will

Scottish people get more of a say in what they want instead of

Westminster taking control? Let's for the audience at home, many who

aren't in Scotland let's say that Scotland is entirely in charge of

health and education. So it is in charge of policing. It has a

multiple bound budget and in -- pound budget. What the pro-union

parties have said if there a no vote there will be more powers over

income tax and welfare. I didn't hear you. There are no details. I

there will be more on income tax and welfare. We said we will work

together to make that happen and we invite the SNP to join us after a no

vote. But what is important... Can I say.? All these areas and still You

never apologised for the 200,000 people who have voted and haven't

had these powers mentioned. Will you apologise? They have already voted.

You have been so vague. You have had these nonsense promises. It has been

on our web-site for months. I can't work out what powers this mythical

time table and you have the three stooges coming up tomorrow and a

Saltire up. It is democracy, the people of Scotland have voted

200,000 people should have had the facts. Calm down. You can't have

that both ways. It is reasonable to attack the vagueness of the

policies, but you have got a yes campaign functioning on a white

paper that a proportion of yes campaigners and the yes vote thinks

is no blue print. A lot of people disagree with im. -- with it. We

said what it is on the first page of the Conservative web-site and it has

been there for months. What we have said is we have laid down a time

table. You have to build consensus. It is like they're going to give us

something on St Andrews day and if there was a haggis night it would be

on haggis night. It is so patronising. They think we are daft.

The parties had an option of putting a more powers option on the ballot

pap eand they did not do that. Nicola Sturgeon negotiated it. We

said we were open to that. The important point fis you don't

control your finances, you don't really have control. Although we

control health and education, our finances are Crombed in London. The

proposals we are being offered are a rehash of what we were offered which

leaves 85% of our taxes going to London and it keeps hold of the

lucrative taxes. The whisky revenue and VAT and controlling income tax

is a pig-in-a-poke and people shouldn't be taken in by it. What

did you say Hugo? The blue print for independence, the SNP fantasy world

is a currency union. That entails Scotland not controlling its own

finances. It will be a union dominated by England. You look at

the euro... If I may, you look at the euro, a huge currency union.

Dominated by Germany and France. You talk about a currency union which

only has two partners, England will call the shots and the rest of the

UK but specifically England. Scotland will

UK but specifically England. its own kourn Su and finances than

Greece has now. -- currency. All our taxes, oil revenue. They will be

able to control business taxes. There will be conditions, because of

the state of Scottish finances. It is what happens in a union. You have

a vote in the House of Commons like everybody else. OK, we are we are

going to move on. Our next programme is in Cardiff the Tuesday after

next. If you want to join the audience e-mail us. And we will

discuss feminism and the issues of the week. The next question. All

week Free Speech viewers have been going to the choose our question

page. Click through tl or the go to questions and it will direct you to

the right place and you will see the questions that have been submitted

since the end of the last show. The way it works is people pick like on

the questions they want to see and we count up the likes to make this

leader board. The question at the top was from Daniel who asked what

happens if Scotland goes independent and the country starts to fail?

Related to what we were talking about. Ruth what happens? First

nobody in Scotland wants Scotland to fail, whether you vote yes or no and

nobody would work towards that. Everyone would work to making it a

success. But I think the best way to look at what you have done in the

past is when we have had tough times whether that is post-war, when we

were a poor country, the crash we had in 2008, the thing Scots have

done well is work across the United Kingdom for a common cause. I live

in Glasgow and my sister lives in Newcastle and my best mate since I

was seven lives in Liverpool and I can't find three cities that are

more alike than Glasgow, Newcastle and Liverpool. The idea you want to

put a border between them I... You I find it wrong. We believe in common

cause and working together. We believe in making the best that we

can and bringing as many people along with us as we can. That is

what I want to see in the future and I want to see that no matter which

way the country votes. It is important to make the point that...

Your party nearly destroyed Glasgow, Newcastle and Liverpool. So I think

she could have chosen better examples. Every year... For 33 years

Scotland has contributed more per head of tax. So we are pooling our

resources to send our money away. I would rather see that money stay in

Scotland. Every year we receive more in public spending to the tune of

1,200 pound a person. They're offering an in out referendum on the

EU. They're the biggest threat to us leaving the EU. And leaving the

biggest market of world. We want to stay in, but we want it to be

reformed. The Conservative Party being wagged at the tail by UKIP,

because they're terrified of losing. You will end up with a situation,

the referendum where Scotland votes to stay in the EU if, we vote no and

we lose the thing, if we stay, we can vote to stay in the EU. And

England votes to leave it but Scotland are forced to leave the EU

as part of the UK. It is nonsense. You touched on something that has

not been brought up the issue of disability. If Scotland becomes

independent the SNP have fledgest pledged the care limits to be in

line with the other benefits. Can the other parties offer similar.

Because right now, Ruth's government, well the party that you

support, your Government has been wrecking lives and that is not good

enough and doesn't seem like it will get better if we stay in the union.

One of the things we have said is these are decisions like attendance

allowance should be devolved to Scotland. But I think one of the

things that we have seen clearly in the white paper is there is a lot of

promises on spending, there is not much on talking about where the

money will come from. As this debate has gone on, there has been promises

and promises on spending and spending, but the idea that you cut

corporation tax or the big business and there is no other money from

anywhere else. I don't understand how you cut tax for the rich, which

is the only redistributive measure in the white paper, you keep the

political stuff that is here and still manage to spend more, where is

the money coming from? The lady here. I understand understand how

the rhetoric from the yes campaign is emotive. But I don't get why

people have their head in the sand about the pain that is ahead. We saw

yesterday the value of companies... What about the pain now? You don't

think we will have spending if we go independent? Of course, but this is

the point. We started this off talking about who would be

responsible if things go wrong. We could be responsible. That is what

this is about. We will make mistakes. It witness be easy, but it

will be our mistake, the people in Scotland taking control. Will that

be te better for austerity. We have 1.3 trillion pounds of debt. We have

nuclear weapon, food banks, bedroom tax, it has to be better than this.

Hugo? The sad troouft is doesn't have to be better than this. We

talked about what happens if Scotland fails, it is important to

understand what this means. - truth. There are some will say ten years

you will have burning cars in the street and zombies walking around,

but that is rubbish, but you talk about is a Scotland that drifts

further behind the rest of the UK and standards of living in income

and spending and investment and you if ask about what happens if that

takes place I believe it will take place. But what happens if that

takes place, what happens if that take place is bitterness, it is a

political culture in Scotland that will blame the rest of the UK for

that, because it will be blamed on the upshot of the negotiations

following independence. That is what will happen. And part of reason why

I am a unionist and will vote no is because I don't want to see the

United Kingdom in which I live torn apart and fighting in that way. That

is a frightening prospect. First, the only people that talk about

fighting, division, borders is the no camp. That is the only people

talking about it. That is not even my point. We are having this debate

because Britain has failed. Britain has failed. This is is no good. If

you think a new Scottish Government will not continue to blame many of

its problems on Westminster, I think you're mistaken. Some comments

online. David says, the reason the yes brigade have looked good is they

stuck to their message and not complicated, try ballism has -- try

ballism is a disaster. Welcome to a third world economy,

Scotland. People's views at home are valid, does he have a point? Days

ago, I distributed food parcels in Dumfries and people were A couple

ofdoes he have a point? Destitute because of sanctions imposed by the

Tories in London. People are destitute now. 400% rise in food

banks in Scotland. In certain sections of society, they have been

hit worst, disabled people, single parents, it's absolutely appalling,

and this is what this is about. It's about making Scotland a more humane

place by putting Scottish policies in and Scottish people in charge.

The gentleman here. The reference that Britain was broken, if it's

broken, surely all of Britain is to blame and not just England. People

say are not blaming England. All I've heard from both campaigns is

about currency, what's going to happen and what powers will be

devolved, but what's going to happen in terms of representation because

that's all anybody wants to know, who will be represented? Women and

other liberation campaigns are always under represented, and young

people and old people, what will happen? We want representation. I

don't know the political model of the SNP for an independent Scotland,

but what I think at the moment is that we need more people to find

their voice, not just in this country but all over the world and

one of the things I'm very proud of and I would take issue with the man

who said Britain was broken, I think the UK plays its role in the world.

You look around the world and we are the second biggest giver of aid

anywhere. There are people alive in the world today because we shoulder

the burden. I'm not saying independent Scotland would do that.

I look around the world at the immunisations programmes run out of

Scotland, different programmes keeping people alive in Africa, and

that makes me proud to be British. Scottish, too. What about Nestle? No

one here from Nestle to defend themselves and we can't talk about

that. I'd like to raise an issue about the finances. Alex Salmond

keeps saying about the oil but these resources will eventually get used

up so it means we have to raise taxes. We country the world who sees

oil as a burden. We the only country who has got poorer since we have got

oil. It's going to be there for a long time. I think we will be more

than successful without it but a huge bonus and we should not

underestimate it. It's important to understand the reality of the

situation because oil has been mentioned a couple of times to

write, Scotland contributes more than it takes back which is

marginally true because of oil. What that means as it's happening already

because of oil, so an independent Scotland, oil will provide no more

money, it's not like there's more money taken away. All that is being

used raising the money per head in Scotland to a level it's already at.

Just briefly, I think we should be aware, I'm not saying oil is a

burden but it's not the answer to everything. Every financial gap is

not going to be plugged. Moore was wiped off Scottish companies in a

single day yesterday than be raised in oil revenue in the entire year,

more is spent on welfare just in Scotland every single year for the

last ten years than the entire tax from the entire North Sea for the

last ten years, so let's put this in context. This isn't an unlimited

fund. It's about making sure people understand exactly what the

contribution of oil is, yes, a good contribution to the economy, but it

does not understand every -- answer every problem for Scotland. Ratings

agency said it without North Sea oil would qualify for its highest

economic assessment if we were independent. We have many strengths.

We have a ?13 billion food and drink industry, tourism, creative

industries, universities amongst the best in the world. I have real faith

in people of Scotland, we will succeed whether or not we have oil,

but it gives us a fantastic head start. I would much rather sit in

control of the people of Scotland than Ruth's colleagues in London.

OK, we're going to move on now. As you know, throughout the summer

there was serious conflict in Israel and Gaza. When we were looking into

the issue we came across a young British man who was planning to

leave the UK to join the Israeli army. We spoke to him about his

experience. This is a Facebook status. He's gone to Israel to fight

for the Israeli defence Force. In its ongoing campaign to massacre the

Palestinians. There's a lot of harsh comments like, he should be in

prison on terrorism charges. He has tricked us. It makes me feel

justified in my decision. He is so ugly, oh my God, what a total go

ahead. Israel says its targeted militant sites. This was a mosque

hit by six Israeli bombs. Even if you are the strongest critic of

Israel, there was an atmosphere of hostility towards Jews. That makes

me feel that maybe it is difficult to live in the UK, especially in

France and general in Europe. It makes me feel I need to live

alongside like-minded people who are my brothers and sisters. I believe

in the cause of IDF also whether I agree with every action does is

another question. I have no issue whatsoever joining an army defending

its people. A lot of people, when they start seeing an opportunity to

attack Israel, they attack Jews as well. In Manchester come there's

been a significant increase in anti-Semitic crime. You have Jewish

cultural institutions like the Jewish film Festival being banned

from theatres. When you have MPs calling for a city to be Israeli

free, not just IDF free, no Israeli academics, Israeli culture, Israeli

tourists, are we living in the 1930s? How can that be seen as

legitimate? Are the protests against Israel encouraging anti-Semitism?

The interesting thing about that little programme we just watched is

that as a young man who was emigrating to another country hoping

to join his army. That's what some people want to do. Now, people could

do that are lots of countries for that this could be somebody

emigrating to Nigeria and joined the Nigerian army, join the French army,

the Turkish army, if we see that as different what we just watched, to

all those examples, we are getting into a dangerous place. I don't

believe that criticising Israel, supporting Gaza, necessarily entails

anti-Semitism. Of course not. I frequently criticise Israel in the

columns are right for them I'm proud to be Jewish. However, I think very

often, it does bleed into anti-Semitism. Not always

deliberately. It can be done carelessly, but it is Scottish

audience will understand, people who criticise Scotland in a way which

could infuriate and irritate Scots far more than they mean to and I

think quite a lot of the time, when people talk about Israel, and

criticise it, they end up holding Jews in this country responsible for

it and in a manner which would not happen with any other ethnic groups.

Obviously anti-Semitism is on the rise in this country and Europe and

especially in France and need to be on top of that. Wheels is a need to

make the important distinction, the anger at the Israeli state, people

aboard the Israeli Government. Many Jewish people across the world and

Israel as well protesting against that. When you see them targeting

militants, they took out an entire streets, it's disgusting, war

crimes. At the same time, you have to remember this particular cycle

starts and three Israelis were murdered. There's a rising but not

distinguish between anger at the Israeli Government and the Jewish

people. I think anti-Semitism only comes in

the small-minded people, but anti-Semitism is wrong but what's

going on in that part of the world is also very wrong. What the Israeli

state may or may not do may be wrong but to criticise, people can also

criticised Hamas for sending thousands of rockets into Israel,

which nobody mentions either, or the fact people have to run to bomb

shelters which are in every building in Israel, and they have a couple of

minutes notice to get there. That's why there have been such less loss

of lives, but I tend to think the media campaign on this particular

conflict, when so much is going on in Syria and Iraq, and a lot of

stuff in Iraq is down to the British going into Iraq in the first prize

and the stable in it, we responsible for killing 180,000 Iraqi civilians

but nobody seems to mention it. It's very asymmetric for some it seems to

be easier to protest against a democratic state than to process

against ISIS, to boycott Israel but rather than criticise ISIS and a

mass movement. There hasn't been a public outcry about what's happening

in Syria and Iraq like there is about Gaza. It isn't what's

happening in Gaza is right, but there are so many people dying every

day and this is the media focusing on it. Do you agree? It works in

other ways as well for that we have seen attacks on Muslims because of

the stereotyping of their religion. I'm a great admiring of the Jewish

contribution to our culture and history which is properly second to

know other people, but I would distinguish that completely

know other people, but I would actions of the Israeli Government at

the moment, which are disproportionate. Tina, what are

people saying at home? This one comes from Sebastian on Facebook.

Like the Islamic state, ring the reason is a phobia exists, and the

actions of countries like Pakistan. The Zionist values and the

persecution of Jewish people justify Israel's persecution of the

Palestinians. What do you think about that? Is Darren defending

Israel? He believes he is defending Israel. I mean, this isn't something

conflict. I have been there several times, mainly in a professional

capacity and I have family in Israel as well. -- simple conflict. It's a

mess. The Government have a destructive policies brought a long

time and no reasonable leadership they can speak to in Gaza, because

they have killed a lot of them and those that haven't killed up

Palestinians killed. It's a terrible mess and you reach a point where

reasonable behaviour is no longer possible and I question whether, if

we were sitting here and now on the threat of rocket attacks, from near

neighbours, our behaviour would be much better than Israel's. The more

we try and portray Israel as a pariah state, the more be in with a

true maddening of the world, the more ageing lines Israel's behaviour

to be poor, because what's left to lose? It's not about the Israeli

state matter orange Hamas but about innocent civilians dying. People

seem to forget that. I think also, yes, Israel is under attack but it

also has hundreds of thousands of pounds coming from America as

opposed to Gaza, which doesn't have that protection. The lady in the

red. They have millions of dollars coming from Qatar for example. It's

not like they are underfunded. They choose to use that money building

terror tunnels. So, you know one side has chosen to protect its

people, which is why fewer people die, and the other side choose to

exploit of. And sadly, I think the media campaign, it was terrible, the

coverage in the last conflict, very, very biased. I think we have to be

careful that we cannot confuse our nation state with a face or

religion, so you have to separate the state of Israel from the face of

Judaism. These things are not concurrent for the BS, Israel is a

Jewish state, but there should be no anti-Jewish backlash for what the

nation state in the world does, and I think let's not get wrapped up in

the hierarchy of suffering. There are casualties here from both sides,

but primarily on one side. And we have to be able to help and the way

we can do that in a conflict, which has been going on since before I was

born, is stop the violence, so a cease-fire, get people around a

table, and try and find leaders within communities who can work

together and there is no glib sound bite or easy answer to this full

service there was, it would've been fixed by now but I think we have to

try and do is try and take the foot off the gas in terms of blaming

people. Don't get me wrong, there is blame on both sides here. Let's not

be blind to it, but there has to be a movement within the international

committee to facilitate that and that's not picking sides, that

getting people around the table because there's been going on for

decades and it needs to stop. It has to be a two nation state. The people

of Gaza need to be protected by international law. It is always wort

comparing what happens in Gaza with the West Bank. What happened there,

the other Palestinian territory used to be similar. But over the course

of the last ten years, two things have happens. Well three things.

They have built a great big wall. That is more contentious than the

rest of what I'm about to say, but they have cracked down in security

terms and there has been massive economic investment. I have been

into the West Bank, you drive through and there is a mobile phone

network and coffee shops and a thriving industry there. When you

have thriving industry you have a lot to lose and when you have a lot

to lose, you're more encouraged to dialogue and the people you have

dialogue with are more wary of destroying the infrastructure. When

there is nothing else there it is very easy to fight, because you have

nothing else to do. To come back to the question about the effect on

anti-Semitism, it has caused anti-Semitism, they're lumping in

the actions of the Israeli state with Jewish people and this a

present even in Scotland when you have bog ts like George Galloway

making hot headed statements and you get backlashes and hate from both

sides and people who are identified as Jewish or Muslim. These debates

encourage people to identify themselves to with the actions on

the ground and that makes it more difficult for sensible, reasonable

people to be heard. And what you get is people like George Galloway

dominating the debates, specially in the countries that are not involved

in the conflicts. I think the way we end anti-Semitism is by educating,

but not just educating the children in school now, but the people who

have more extreme views we need to teach them to have respectful views

and deliver them in a respectful way. But how do we do that? Well...

It is not easy! It is not how we do it. Is how they do it there. They

have to do it within themselves, teach other and get around the table

and work from there and bring a better Israel and Gaza. The power

bar is back. And here what is the online audience think. We have been

running this question at the bottom of our screen. This is the power

bar, just use the hashtag Free Speech yes or no to give us your

view. We have had some answers in. 48% think yes, 52% think no. And the

comments we are getting from Jade, this protest against Israel and not

IS, because our government supports the former. Sean says the protests

are encouraging anti-Semitism. Israel is doing that by itself.

Yes? What concerns me this a in 2014 the op way to solve problems in the

world is through murder and war. That worries me. I think going on,

there has been certain deals done by Britain, David Cameron was actually

just involved in a negotiation which sees Britain actually helping with

the idea of trying to control the Islamic states there. That concerns

me. I think that we can do so much more and I think there is lot better

ways of dealing with these issues. I also think if we look at the

uprising of different groups, separatist groups, whether it is in

Nigeria or IS, if if you look in Nigeria they only came into

inception in 2009, we should ask what is it we are doing that is

causing so many people to feel so disenfranchised from the society

that they need to kill each other? I think that is what we need to

discuss. I think you're probably right, but were going to move on to

our final question. James? Can I ask the panel what will happen to my UK

identity? So what will happen to this gentleman's UK identity if

Scotland votes for independence? Either. Martin? Again a answer is I

don't know. You will still consider yourself British. Its not just

Scotland and England, there is four partners, I assume there will still

be a United Kingdom, unless... The other nations feel energised by what

we have got and I include England in this and want self rule and we will

all be better, unless it is Wembley or trick nap, we will be better pals

if we are all on an even footing. What did you mean by your question?

The problem I have, I'm English, not a problem, but... But I have

Scottish children, so am I going to be separated from a national

identity from my own children. I live and work in Scotland, but I

still see myself as English. There is a chap there who is wearing an

English Scots for yes badge, perhaps he would like to answer that

question. He would. I'm not going to get too angry this time. With

regards to British and English identity, the White Paper suggests

those who are using UK passports can continue with them all it is if you

continue to be born in Scotland after independence, you become

Scottish and that is not necessarily a bad thing. I would like to keep

Scottish and that is not necessarily British passport, I have family in

Buckinghamshire, I'm proud to be living in Scotland and have the

opportunity living in Scotland and have the

living here you shouldn't be threatened by the idea you're going

to be taking part in the Scottish civic state. If there is a poss

yiblgt to be -- possibility to be the a member of the community after

independence, I don't think that will stop me from being British. We

all live on the same island, Scotland will not drift off into the

attack. Do we know that for sure? I think so. We don't have chain saws

ready. The point is of course your identity won't change. We will still

have all the shared bonds that we have between Scotland, Wales,

Northern Ireland, England, we are still going to be friends with these

people, but we are voting for a more democratic fair irstate with our

vote counts. We get the government we vote for. It is about democracy.

We were talking about what happens if an independent Scotland fails,

but the union has already failed and a lot of people in Scotland, we have

people in Glasgow where their life expectancy is lower than African

nations. We can change that with a yes vote if we vote yes. It is about

making a fairer society. Of course we will still have the bonds, but

its about democracy. The gentleman at the back. It is clear the UK has

problems and that London, or government is too centred on London.

But we don't have to break up the UK to fix those problems. The debate

has been brilliant that we have been able to for the first time talk

about the constitutional make up of the UK. I think now we have had this

discussion we can improve it, we don't have to bluntly slice off

Scotland from the top. There are better more perfect ways to fix the

country. I think Scotland could have been bankrupt in the financial

crisis if it wasn't part of UK, because the Royal Bank of Scotland

was bailed out by the UK. Scotland would never have been able to

shoulder that weight by itself and the help would have had to come from

England. Ruth? Back to James' question about identity. I can't

answer James' question. I don't think anyone could and I don't think

the White Paper does. I can only talk for myself with identity, I

feel twice blessed, I'm Scottish and lived and worked here all my life.

But I get to be British too. I feel like can I kind of flow between them

in a way I'm not sure I'm able to articulate. If we do vote

independent and in eight and a half days I hope we don't, I will feel I

have lost something. It is inevitable when Britain no longer

has Scotland as a part of it, people will feel less British. One of the

difficulties that people across Scotland have had in is in campaign

is that the tale they have been told by those proposing yes that

everything will change but nothing will change. But starting a new

country, things will change. It is rich talking about health. You have

got to weigh it up and with identity that is something people have to

take with them. Whether they want to walk away or work together. Opinions

from people at home, this one is from, we have lost one, Ritchie, why

is it your Scottish, English, Welsh... I have lost that one too!

The technology is failing. Harvey, I wouldn't want to see a British flag

with no blue. It is just not right! Final call from you on this Joan.

When Ireland left the union the cross of St Patrick remained in the

Union flag. So there is no pressure to change the Union flag. I think

the other point is Scandinavians can be Danish, Norwegian and still feel

sclachltian. We are back in a fortnight when we will be in

Cardiff. You don't have to wait until then to join in our Facebook

page is waiting for you questions. Click like on the questions you want

to see on the programme. And in 2 days you can watch thousand of 16

and 17-year-olds talking part in the big debate. It is at the Hydroin

Glasgow. Thank you for an excellent debate and good night.