Browse content similar to 19/01/2012. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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Hello and welcome to the programme. Coming up. The Justice Minister and | :00:27. | :00:31. | |
the fix that kept him in office, but lost his party its second | :00:31. | :00:36. | |
minute Sterry. How ex-prisoners are helping schoolchildren learn about | :00:36. | :00:39. | |
citizenship and conflict. Why Tom Elliott thinks Scottish | :00:39. | :00:48. | |
independence is a bigger threat to the union than the IRA. | :00:48. | :00:52. | |
For the Alliance leader David Ford, the uncertainty is over. It has | :00:52. | :00:55. | |
been agreed that his party will hold on to the justice ministry for | :00:55. | :00:58. | |
the duration of this Assembly. It came at a price, the abolition of | :00:58. | :01:04. | |
the did Department of Education, meaning that they lost a seat at | :01:04. | :01:12. | |
the table. Mr Ford, you went from describing the merging malicious | :01:12. | :01:16. | |
and bad government, to excepting this deal it that keeps you in | :01:16. | :01:22. | |
Kenya, but losing Stephen Farry his job? You have got it wrong. The | :01:22. | :01:26. | |
Alliance Party have not accepted anything. The deal is there, but it | :01:26. | :01:30. | |
has not gone through. Peter Robinson and Martin McGuinness have | :01:30. | :01:34. | |
set out what they want to happen. We have made it clear. They can see | :01:34. | :01:40. | |
what happens, but they cannot make other people participate. You are | :01:40. | :01:46. | |
not going to stay in the justice ministry? Let us pedal back. The | :01:46. | :01:50. | |
key issue is last May we had an Assembly election and the people of | :01:50. | :01:56. | |
Northern Ireland voted for Alliance, gave us an extra seat and | :01:56. | :01:59. | |
significantly more votes and an entitlement to one of him | :01:59. | :02:03. | |
ministerial post. The First Minister and Deputy First Minister | :02:03. | :02:08. | |
at proposed affix to abolish our right to that. You have one post, | :02:08. | :02:14. | |
the Justice Ministry? It is all fix isn't it? I know what is | :02:14. | :02:21. | |
interesting for you. It is a complicated issue. Our entitlement | :02:21. | :02:25. | |
is to the ministerial post which is awarded on the mathematical | :02:25. | :02:32. | |
proportionality. The offer of the Minister of Justice, which has not | :02:32. | :02:36. | |
actually been formally offered to us, they talk about a cross- | :02:36. | :02:46. | |
:02:46. | :02:47. | ||
community vote. You're interrupting a game! I am getting impatient. | :02:48. | :02:52. | |
Have explaining the key facts between the gift, as they seem to | :02:52. | :02:55. | |
regard it and what the people of Northern Ireland said we were | :02:55. | :03:01. | |
entitled to. If they can fix the system to take out our entitlement | :03:01. | :03:05. | |
of one of the 10 posts, why should I possibly believe any assurances | :03:05. | :03:09. | |
that they will leave me in post, but all they have to do is a simple | :03:09. | :03:15. | |
vote in the Assembly? That is why we believe it is absolutely | :03:15. | :03:17. | |
essential that at Justice Minister or elected on a cross-community | :03:18. | :03:25. | |
vote must have ten-year. They agree with that? What we have not yet got | :03:25. | :03:29. | |
is the assurance that the only way that can be guaranteed, legislation | :03:29. | :03:35. | |
in Westminster, will be provided. That is essential. There is no | :03:35. | :03:40. | |
doubt of that? Do think there is any possibility within the next few | :03:40. | :03:44. | |
months that we will have you not still in the justice ministry and | :03:44. | :03:49. | |
the D T L will have gone. The it is significant doubt whether | :03:49. | :03:54. | |
legislative protection will be provided. I do not think the | :03:54. | :03:56. | |
Secretary of State appreciates the seriousness of the situation. The | :03:56. | :04:01. | |
decision on whether the Lions party will participate will be taken by | :04:01. | :04:08. | |
their counsel. I am not sure if I could go whether I wanted to, to | :04:08. | :04:11. | |
say they chucked out Stephen Farry last week, so we can rely on the | :04:11. | :04:17. | |
promise that I will remain in my post. You said to Owen Paterson | :04:17. | :04:21. | |
will you agree to extend protection for the Justice Ministry and he | :04:21. | :04:27. | |
said no? The position is that the Deputy First Minister and First | :04:27. | :04:29. | |
Minister said they would seek legislation and the Secretary of | :04:29. | :04:33. | |
State is saying there is a difficulty about the timing. | :04:33. | :04:40. | |
the principal? As I understand, the House of Commons is almost as bad | :04:40. | :04:46. | |
as the Assembly, I notice yesterday that the order paper it did not | :04:46. | :04:50. | |
have anything at all on legislation except at Ten Minute Rule Bill, | :04:50. | :04:53. | |
which be no means nothing. They're not actually doing any real work in | :04:53. | :04:57. | |
the House of Commons, so I cannot accept the Secretary of State | :04:57. | :05:01. | |
saying there isn't time to do it. If protection were to be extended, | :05:01. | :05:05. | |
you would except the prolongation of your tenure in the justice | :05:05. | :05:08. | |
ministry and also you would accept the fact that the D L is going to | :05:08. | :05:16. | |
go. That is going to happen? prove that they can they abolish it, | :05:16. | :05:20. | |
proves the need for protection. If there was a guarantee for | :05:20. | :05:22. | |
protection in Westminster legislation, then I would have | :05:22. | :05:26. | |
something to put to the Alliance Party. A why not just throw the | :05:26. | :05:31. | |
whole thing open? There isn't sufficient cross-community | :05:31. | :05:38. | |
confidence. Do you believe that is still the case? A do you think | :05:38. | :05:42. | |
outside Stormont people would object to having Alban Maginness as | :05:42. | :05:47. | |
the Minister? If Alban Maginness got a cross-community vote in the | :05:47. | :05:52. | |
Assembly, then obviously he could be Justice Minister. The reality is | :05:52. | :05:55. | |
that last May he did not get support. There were three | :05:55. | :05:59. | |
candidates and I was the fourth candidate. There would not have | :05:59. | :06:01. | |
been an alliance Justice Minister if anyone had been acceptable from | :06:01. | :06:06. | |
any of the other parties. You do not think anything has changed | :06:06. | :06:16. | |
:06:16. | :06:16. | ||
since then? Not from what I hear from other politicians. Did you | :06:16. | :06:21. | |
taking a job cannot contribute to the continuing sectarianism of | :06:21. | :06:25. | |
politics? If you said you would not take it, it would have been thrown | :06:25. | :06:30. | |
open? Hire and earth to do is the suggestion that some are elected on | :06:31. | :06:36. | |
a cross-community vote, attracting support from across the house, with | :06:36. | :06:40. | |
the background of the Alliance Party have, how on earth is that | :06:40. | :06:47. | |
sectarian icing it? The SDLP have argued that they are entitled to | :06:47. | :06:52. | |
the justice ministry as the next pick, so why not just throw it | :06:52. | :06:59. | |
open? They don't have the next pick! We are entitled to the next | :06:59. | :07:04. | |
pick. If the abolish d e l, we are entitled to one of the 10 | :07:04. | :07:11. | |
departments that remains. About the sectarianism, if the DUP and Sinn | :07:11. | :07:15. | |
Fein reckon that there is no one else who can take the cross- | :07:15. | :07:18. | |
community vote, you are accepting their analysis. Why not just throw | :07:18. | :07:26. | |
the whole thing open again? Why not say the you want Northern Ireland | :07:26. | :07:30. | |
to show it is mature enough to let someone on their skills not the | :07:30. | :07:35. | |
party they are from? That has the opportunity the Assembly had. They | :07:35. | :07:39. | |
could collect someone on the basis of the skills they had. They were | :07:39. | :07:42. | |
three people nominated on the first occasion and for people nominated | :07:42. | :07:47. | |
on the second occasion. I was the only person who gain sufficient | :07:47. | :07:51. | |
confidence. Justice was so complicated, so worrying, we could | :07:51. | :07:57. | |
not do it at all in the Good Friday Agreement. I am wondering if this | :07:57. | :08:01. | |
guy would not fall in if it was thrown open? You would need to ask | :08:01. | :08:06. | |
other people from other parties. I do not believe that there is | :08:06. | :08:14. | |
necessary sufficient support for that. I also have said in response | :08:14. | :08:17. | |
to this and Andrew's agreement that we should have a vote in the | :08:17. | :08:20. | |
Assembly that validates the entire Executive. We should not have | :08:20. | :08:24. | |
people nominated by parties, we should show it is a partnership and | :08:24. | :08:27. | |
nature that people are working together by having a vote to | :08:27. | :08:32. | |
endorse the entire Executive. We have a proposal to endorse the | :08:32. | :08:36. | |
Ministry of Justice, but not the entire it Executive. We should be | :08:36. | :08:41. | |
seeking something more than a carve Up in which parties pick a | :08:41. | :08:44. | |
department and establish something like a real working coalition. As | :08:44. | :08:49. | |
soon mean that there is protection offered by legislation and Alliance | :08:49. | :08:56. | |
keeps the job, would you stay as Justice Minister until 2015? Until | :08:56. | :09:00. | |
2015 is a long period, but you are already begging the question as to | :09:00. | :09:06. | |
whether the necessary protection is in place. Let us sing it is. If you | :09:06. | :09:15. | |
are assuming protection is in place,... Let us us in it is. | :09:15. | :09:19. | |
would certainly like to continue to be the Justice Minister, because I | :09:19. | :09:23. | |
am seen work which I initiated coming back and the opportunity to | :09:23. | :09:28. | |
carry that forward. I am not a mortal and I'm not all wise and | :09:28. | :09:31. | |
all-seeing. I have colleagues who are capable of the ministers. | :09:31. | :09:41. | |
:09:41. | :09:42. | ||
Stephen Farry was sacked and he was a good minister to. We were | :09:42. | :09:46. | |
supposed to have a robust action plan by the end of last year. There | :09:46. | :09:50. | |
is no sign of that and we understand there are working party | :09:50. | :09:54. | |
stuck in negotiations, absolutely going nowhere, do you feel were led | :09:55. | :09:59. | |
up the garden path? We will have to see. You can be sure that what I | :09:59. | :10:06. | |
have been doing has been to do a considerable amount of work on | :10:06. | :10:10. | |
advancing the cohesive sharing strategy. We now have in the | :10:10. | :10:13. | |
Programme for Government specific commitments about building | :10:13. | :10:17. | |
relationships that will enable people to feel it be known. -- no | :10:17. | :10:22. | |
longer need peace walls. That is a significant step forward. You will | :10:22. | :10:26. | |
be you will be launching a report that we show that five balls have | :10:26. | :10:32. | |
been built since 2008. I will be scene tomorrow that since I came | :10:32. | :10:36. | |
into office as Minister of Justice, there has not been any building of | :10:36. | :10:41. | |
new walls. There has not been any increase in in height, there has | :10:41. | :10:47. | |
not been any enhancement. Whatever work has been done since 2008, was | :10:47. | :10:54. | |
done between 2008 and 2010. there was work done in the context | :10:54. | :10:58. | |
of direct rule ministers before I came into office. I have | :10:58. | :11:02. | |
specifically refused to extend peace walls and you have seen, | :11:02. | :11:09. | |
under my watch, but we have seen at gate open in Alexandra Park and you | :11:09. | :11:17. | |
have reported yourself... More have gone up since 2008. It isn't my | :11:17. | :11:24. | |
reports. It isn't on my watch. You have reported DUP in the last three | :11:24. | :11:31. | |
years, there had been at least five new walls. In the 21 months that I | :11:31. | :11:35. | |
have had responsibility, the work that has been done has been about | :11:35. | :11:38. | |
building relationships, opening barriers and about getting away | :11:38. | :11:42. | |
with that concept. Except that that is the reality of the current | :11:42. | :11:52. | |
:11:52. | :11:53. | ||
position. David Ford says he does not do hops, | :11:53. | :11:58. | |
so his threat to walk out of the Executive is puff. Let us ignore | :11:58. | :12:02. | |
the fact that alliance is only losing and ministry to undo the | :12:02. | :12:05. | |
extra ministry again through the last six. Let us also glide over | :12:06. | :12:09. | |
the fact that it brings the Executive more into line with the | :12:09. | :12:13. | |
Good Friday Agreement, delivered at properly represent a mix of | :12:13. | :12:16. | |
ministers and as cross-community and legislative backing. Let us | :12:16. | :12:20. | |
ignore all that, because Mr Ford isn't actually complaining about it, | :12:20. | :12:24. | |
but not much anyway. He is complaining that the structure of | :12:24. | :12:28. | |
the Stormont Department has not been reformed in one go, preferably | :12:28. | :12:32. | |
down to alliances favoured number of eight. Scrapping only one, which | :12:32. | :12:36. | |
happens to have an Alliance Party minister, looks malicious, reckons | :12:36. | :12:41. | |
Mr Ford. He isn't alone. The SDLP as puffed something similar with | :12:41. | :12:45. | |
Alex Attwood calling it a missed opportunity to rearrange all the | :12:45. | :12:49. | |
departments and fix the policing and just meant -- justice fudge. | :12:49. | :12:54. | |
Net so says it should only have been abolished in terms of an | :12:54. | :12:58. | |
independent review. What we have here is the old peace process | :12:58. | :13:01. | |
principle of nothing is agrees until everything is agreed. However, | :13:01. | :13:07. | |
as we saw in the peace process -- says that men of the was agreed for | :13:07. | :13:09. | |
years. A green nothing until you have agreed everything is all very | :13:09. | :13:14. | |
well when you are a green a grand political settlement, but anything | :13:14. | :13:17. | |
else is asking for deadlock. This is especially true with | :13:17. | :13:20. | |
administrative reform as we have seen that the plan for reducing the | :13:20. | :13:23. | |
number of councils. Trying to reduce the number of Stormont | :13:23. | :13:26. | |
departments are ones would be no different. It is far better to go | :13:26. | :13:31. | |
step by step and the absurdity of Mr for's complaint is that he is | :13:31. | :13:36. | |
objecting to with a step towards his own goal. Alliance says it | :13:36. | :13:42. | |
wants... That is the point, the only go part way and other parts of | :13:42. | :13:45. | |
the administrative jigsaw can be added later. It is bizarre to see | :13:46. | :13:49. | |
this peace process mindset of nothing about everything carried | :13:49. | :13:52. | |
over into the mundane business of everyday government, even to the | :13:52. | :13:57. | |
extent of a party led the Lions party attempting to play a crisis | :13:57. | :14:02. | |
in the peace process card. The all- party coalition encourages this, | :14:02. | :14:05. | |
but there is unfinished business hanging over the department will | :14:05. | :14:09. | |
issue. Does David Ford really think he can huff and puff and blow the | :14:09. | :14:15. | |
house down? He may be making a fuss for internal consumption. Stephen | :14:16. | :14:18. | |
Farry has been sacrificed to keep Kent in the justice ministry. How | :14:18. | :14:22. | |
does he think this perfection of petulance plays with Alliance | :14:22. | :14:27. | |
voters. It is good to see Stormont or at least Sinn Fein and the DUP | :14:27. | :14:32. | |
realise that something can be agreed. Politics is the art of the | :14:32. | :14:35. | |
possible and instalment of all places, a small step will always be | :14:35. | :14:40. | |
more possible than a giant leap. The Alliance Party says it is in | :14:40. | :14:50. | |
:14:50. | :14:57. | ||
the Assembly to bring this The thoughts of Newton Emerson.. | :14:57. | :15:00. | |
While the political parties are having a hard time coming up with | :15:00. | :15:03. | |
an agreed way on dealing with the past, some people are just getting | :15:03. | :15:07. | |
on with it. Julia Paul begins her report at a school where pupils are | :15:07. | :15:08. | |
learning about citizenship...from former paramilitary prisoners. | :15:08. | :15:16. | |
While the political parties are Teachers introduce former | :15:17. | :15:21. | |
parliamentary prisoners. They're not feel a sense of remorse? They | :15:21. | :15:25. | |
may know why have done bad things to them. These men were the same | :15:25. | :15:31. | |
age as these young people when they became involved in the conflict. | :15:31. | :15:35. | |
you could sit down with one of your victims with all cameras of, what | :15:35. | :15:42. | |
we do say to them? If you worked for me, and it does not matter what | :15:42. | :15:48. | |
context, and you do not feel sorry, there is something wrong with you. | :15:48. | :15:52. | |
If you could, would you go back to when you join the parlour minuted | :15:52. | :15:59. | |
grip and change that decision? -- paramilitary group. | :15:59. | :16:02. | |
Some are the fathers themselves. They believe that telling these | :16:02. | :16:05. | |
young people about their experiences as a way of making sure | :16:05. | :16:11. | |
that history is not repeating itself. I think if we ignore at our | :16:11. | :16:15. | |
past, there is a tendency to come back to haunt us. The whole purpose | :16:15. | :16:20. | |
of this project and the key principle is not to glorify it | :16:20. | :16:25. | |
armed conflict or to justify it. This is what helps us get through | :16:25. | :16:33. | |
to young people. We're going out and telling people about this. Even | :16:33. | :16:37. | |
former enemies, basically hating each other, going out there and | :16:37. | :16:42. | |
killing and hurting each other, now we are not. This project, from | :16:42. | :16:46. | |
prison to peace, is a joint initiative between the Community | :16:46. | :16:49. | |
Foundation of Northern Ireland and the School of Education at Queen's | :16:49. | :16:53. | |
University. Queen's believes the project gives pupils a different | :16:53. | :16:58. | |
perspective on the conflict. There are opportunities for them to learn | :16:58. | :17:03. | |
about the history but it is quite a sanitised and top down narrative | :17:03. | :17:08. | |
that the 11, often in history. What this gives is another perspective | :17:08. | :17:15. | |
on that, another complex understanding of the conflict. | :17:15. | :17:19. | |
think it is really beneficial to here their views of what the | :17:19. | :17:24. | |
Troubles were like rather than just what we hear from books. Although | :17:24. | :17:27. | |
we share lives with people of different backgrounds, at least we | :17:27. | :17:33. | |
get to come and see what part of our history was. It is good to hear | :17:34. | :17:38. | |
from both sides of it so it is beneficial for me, so whenever I go | :17:38. | :17:48. | |
:17:48. | :17:48. | ||
home, I can think. I am against paramilitaries. Taking ex-prisoners | :17:48. | :17:52. | |
and to schools and even using the experience is to teach young people | :17:52. | :17:56. | |
is clearly controversial. The Community Foundation says the time | :17:56. | :18:02. | |
is right. Given that there has not been an effective system to address | :18:02. | :18:07. | |
the issues of the past, we have to start taking baby step somewhere to | :18:07. | :18:12. | |
try to create the atmosphere where people can start to ask questions. | :18:12. | :18:16. | |
You might expect this integrated school to embrace the project but | :18:16. | :18:20. | |
how many other schools, and in particular single denomination | :18:20. | :18:26. | |
institutions, have taken this up? You're talking about a dozen | :18:26. | :18:29. | |
schools and total actively engaging in the programme at the moment. The | :18:29. | :18:33. | |
programme is really only now being run out in schools because last | :18:33. | :18:38. | |
year was primarily about training. Teaching new generations of young | :18:38. | :18:41. | |
people about the conflict is of course one way of dealing with the | :18:41. | :18:48. | |
past. What about the people who lived through it? At the group, | :18:48. | :18:53. | |
healing through remembering, they have come up with another idea, of | :18:53. | :18:56. | |
an exhibition of objects relating to the Troubles which will visit | :18:56. | :18:59. | |
different areas within the community to bring people they | :18:59. | :19:04. | |
gather to talk. They have given us a loan of the | :19:04. | :19:09. | |
items and we have arranged them here. Postcards, prison art, and of | :19:09. | :19:14. | |
course, the iconic been led. Things that where a very day that a | :19:14. | :19:23. | |
different because of the conflict. -- bin lid. When we were looking at | :19:23. | :19:27. | |
the idea of a museum and the difficulties over whether there | :19:27. | :19:32. | |
should be a museum, we carried out an audit. We did this in tandem | :19:32. | :19:37. | |
with Queen's University and we discover 79 collections was over to | :19:38. | :19:43. | |
London 50,000 items. The museum already exists - it is just that we | :19:43. | :19:50. | |
do not have access to it. How do these items help people? It is | :19:50. | :19:54. | |
interesting because for people who were there and remember it, the | :19:54. | :19:58. | |
immediate we look at it and talk about stories and incidents and how | :19:58. | :20:03. | |
different things are. For the generation after coming along, it | :20:03. | :20:07. | |
does not mean anything. The understand an everyday item like a | :20:07. | :20:13. | |
bus ticket and can see why it is different. It gives everybody a | :20:13. | :20:20. | |
basis from which to begin the discussion. You can see ordinary | :20:20. | :20:22. | |
people from all walks of life beginning to discuss and debate | :20:22. | :20:26. | |
this issue and once again, the community are ahead of the | :20:26. | :20:32. | |
politicians when it comes to this. The former or peer P M la Don | :20:32. | :20:39. | |
Purvis is the chair of it. They need to talk the community and | :20:39. | :20:44. | |
listen to the community. The best the 10th that was made was through | :20:44. | :20:48. | |
the Consultative Group for the past and their report. We need to get it | :20:48. | :20:58. | |
:20:58. | :20:59. | ||
out. We need to start again and say, how do we deal with this? | :20:59. | :21:02. | |
The Ulster Unionist leader Tom Elliott didn't mince his words in | :21:02. | :21:05. | |
his contribution to the debate on Scottish independence. He said it | :21:05. | :21:08. | |
was a bigger threat than the IRA was to the Union. He's here to | :21:08. | :21:11. | |
defend that position, and we're joined from Westminster by the | :21:11. | :21:16. | |
Scottish Nationalist MP Angus Brendan MacNeil. Harsh words, many | :21:16. | :21:24. | |
would say. Do you stand by them? need to recognise that I recognise | :21:24. | :21:27. | |
that Alex Salmond was bringing forward these proposals and a | :21:27. | :21:33. | |
peaceful and democratic manner. I accept that. At this present time, | :21:33. | :21:38. | |
I see those proposals as a bigger threat to the union than the IRA as | :21:38. | :21:43. | |
at present. I suppose one of the points Tom Elliott made was asking | :21:43. | :21:47. | |
you to look at the sacrifices, as he would put it, that Unionists | :21:48. | :21:52. | |
went through through 30 years have I any violence to maintain the | :21:52. | :21:56. | |
Union. It gives you some idea of how valuable it is to them? Up I | :21:56. | :22:04. | |
want to move away from that sort of rhetoric. We are a peaceful civic | :22:04. | :22:09. | |
movement and to add up Alex Salmond and the eye area in one breath is | :22:09. | :22:15. | |
ludicrous. I was encouraged by the moderation of Mr Elliott's earlier | :22:15. | :22:20. | |
tone. What we're talking about is moving powers from Westminster to | :22:20. | :22:24. | |
Holyrood. Making Scotland a country like nor where Denmark that can | :22:24. | :22:30. | |
take part in the world. In the last 60 years, 140 other states have | :22:30. | :22:34. | |
joined the United Nations and Scotland should be one of them. | :22:34. | :22:37. | |
say it is the job but Unionists to articulate the case for keeping the | :22:37. | :22:43. | |
unions. Here you are, persuade him. I think he will be well aware of | :22:43. | :22:46. | |
mind and many other Unionists concerns about the break-up of the | :22:46. | :22:51. | |
Union. I think we do well as part of the family of the United Kingdom. | :22:51. | :22:56. | |
We met up a good family. We have a lot to offer and Scotland has a lot | :22:56. | :23:01. | |
to offer the union as does Northern Ireland. I think together, we can | :23:01. | :23:08. | |
be a much more prosperous society. I have to say, I think if you look | :23:08. | :23:14. | |
at the figures, it costs the UK Exchequer �1,600 per person for | :23:14. | :23:20. | |
every man, woman and child in Scotland. I have to ask, which | :23:20. | :23:24. | |
union is he talking about? And I am not clear which she is talking | :23:24. | :23:34. | |
:23:34. | :23:34. | ||
about. From which here? We are within the United Kingdom that | :23:34. | :23:38. | |
works well within the European Union. I think Scotland has a lot | :23:39. | :23:47. | |
to offer full stop which union? general terms, everyone acceded to | :23:47. | :23:53. | |
the union in different centuries. Let us take it from 2012. There was | :23:54. | :23:58. | |
the Union of 17 07 between Scotland and England. We will be ending that | :23:58. | :24:02. | |
union when the move powers from Westminster to Holyrood. The union | :24:02. | :24:07. | |
of 16 or three of the crowns, we will be keeping that union and the | :24:07. | :24:09. | |
Queen of the remaining head of state in Scotland as he does | :24:09. | :24:15. | |
elsewhere. From the 16 of the perspective, I am a unionist. | :24:15. | :24:20. | |
cannot be a unionist if you want to divide the unions. I want to retain | :24:20. | :24:25. | |
the union of the crowns. Per Scotland has a huge questions to | :24:25. | :24:29. | |
answer and I have not heard any of them. What will they do with the | :24:29. | :24:33. | |
EU? Will they keep the pound sterling. There are a lot of | :24:33. | :24:36. | |
questions and I think they are a much more viable entity as the | :24:36. | :24:46. | |
:24:46. | :24:46. | ||
United Kingdom. There are multiple unions and I would like him to say | :24:46. | :24:51. | |
which he means. If he is a unionist, he must be speaking of one union at | :24:51. | :24:56. | |
some point in time and I think that should be established. I think it's | :24:56. | :25:00. | |
quite clear, I do not know what that the union is about -- argument | :25:00. | :25:06. | |
is about. We are speaking of the union that has operated in the | :25:06. | :25:10. | |
European Union for the last couple of decades. It is the Union of | :25:10. | :25:15. | |
today. We are speaking about it since the accession to the European | :25:15. | :25:19. | |
Union in the 1970s. You're splitting hairs. We all know what | :25:19. | :25:24. | |
we're talking about. I am a unionist in 16 or three terms but | :25:25. | :25:28. | |
not and 70 No 7 terms and they want to establish what end of Unionist | :25:28. | :25:35. | |
he is full stop shall we use the 17 07 their permission? You want a | :25:35. | :25:45. | |
:25:45. | :25:46. | ||
breakaway from political control from London. It is quite simple. | :25:46. | :25:49. | |
You have been criticised from the Republic is well with people saying | :25:49. | :25:54. | |
that for all its problems, it it is a much better place to be than | :25:54. | :25:58. | |
Northern Ireland. I do not accept that and I have to say that if you | :25:59. | :26:03. | |
look at the last century, large numbers migrated from the Republic | :26:03. | :26:07. | |
because there was not the work or the opportunities there for them | :26:07. | :26:11. | |
that there is in the United Kingdom. Many of them migrated to many of | :26:11. | :26:14. | |
the cities in the United Kingdom and some of them in Scotland. I | :26:15. | :26:19. | |
think they have gone for better opportunities. I do not want | :26:19. | :26:22. | |
Scotland to become a small independent state that is reliant | :26:22. | :26:25. | |
and has to export their young people instead of holding on to | :26:25. | :26:33. | |
them. Is that what you're offering? We do not have to be ruled from the | :26:33. | :26:37. | |
house at number three on the state. We can all govern ourselves with an | :26:37. | :26:40. | |
our own houses and get on well with their neighbours and that is what | :26:40. | :26:44. | |
will happen. The Republic of Ireland is one example and I would | :26:44. | :26:47. | |
argue that the Republic of Ireland would be far smaller today had it | :26:47. | :26:51. | |
stayed in the unions. Their successful countries like Norway | :26:51. | :26:57. | |
with a smaller population than Scotland and a similar geography. | :26:57. | :27:01. | |
In the world league, it is number one of everything including GT pipa | :27:01. | :27:05. | |
cap above. The Republic of Ireland as high up in those terms than | :27:05. | :27:08. | |
United Kingdom. We can stay together as a family in much the | :27:08. | :27:13. | |
same way that the Scandinavian countries did. They are known as | :27:13. | :27:19. | |
the Scandinavian Mafia. They represent 25 million people and | :27:19. | :27:24. | |
work together. Rather than looking for fears, I think he should be | :27:24. | :27:29. | |
looking for the opportunities of friendliness and reaching out. | :27:29. | :27:32. | |
do you understand why you're striving for independence makes him | :27:32. | :27:41. | |
so nervous? Politics in Northern Ireland might be about totems and | :27:41. | :27:44. | |
we're a bit practical and sensible stuff and we are renowned for being | :27:44. | :27:48. | |
like that as a people. That is why we are moving towards independence, | :27:48. | :27:53. | |
on that basis of sense and practicality. It would be good for | :27:53. | :27:59. | |
not just this generation but generations become. The nearly done. | :27:59. | :28:04. | |
I must ask about your press assessor, David Trimble, who says | :28:04. | :28:09. | |
you acted stupidly in turning down a merger with the Tories. He is a | :28:09. | :28:13. | |
member of the Tory party now and is entitled to his views. I do not | :28:13. | :28:19. | |
agree with him and I think my party would totally back me in not | :28:19. | :28:24. | |
disbanding the Ulster Unionists. The opportunity to take over the | :28:24. | :28:28. | |
Tories. What I said was I am not disbanding the Ulster Unionist | :28:28. | :28:32. | |
Party and that is what I was asked to do. You would rather he kept his | :28:32. | :28:36. | |
nose out of it? It is his decision and he is now a member of the | :28:36. | :28:41. | |
Conservative Party so he is entitled to his opinion. | :28:41. | :28:46. | |
Thank you both. We must leave it there. Back next week at the usual | :28:46. | :28:56. | |
:28:56. | :29:01. | ||
Some carry on this week. Even in recession, ways to make money. | :29:01. | :29:07. | |
Teachers are being bribed, sorry, paid to leave early. They have been | :29:07. | :29:17. | |
:29:17. | :29:18. |