02/03/2017: First Minister's Questions Politics Scotland

Hello. A very warm welcome to the Scottish parliament at Holyrood.

Winter is officially over and Spring has sprung. If you think that will

make the atmosphere in the chamber any less chilly? I thought you might

say that! Lets crossover for questions to the First Minister.

Answering a question now on the fishing industry and its importance

in forthcoming negotiations on Britain's exit from the European

Union. That will continue for a while, head of First Minister's

Questions. It has become quite crucial to the debate on Brexit,

with the two governments arguing about the position of these powers,

when the UK leave the European Union. The Scottish Government

argued that it should be under the purview of this place, the Scottish

Government in Hollywood. UK ministers say it should be looked at

on a case-by-case basis, to see what works best for the United Kingdom as

a whole. Brexit is always there, as is the ongoing debate over

independence, further remarks from Nicola Sturgeon this week, seeming

to upped the ante, describing an independence referendum as perhaps

necessary, from her point of view. Will she give any more indication on

that day? Question number one, Ruth Davidson. I would like to ask the

First Minister what engagements she has planned for the rest of the day.

I have engagements to take forward the process for Scotland. The

Education Secretary said he would delay his reform plans because he

had received more than 1000 submissions and he needed more time

to chew them over. Can I ask the First Minister, if I personally

promise to write 1000 submissions opposing her unwanted plan for a

second referendum, would she chew that over and done that as well? On

education reform, a very serious matter that I would have hoped all

members of the chamber would want to discuss in a serious way, we have

had the consultation on governance reform. We have received over 1000

responses to that consultation and it is right and proper that the

Education Secretary considers all of those responses and then comes

forward to Parliament with our proposals on the way forward. Of

course, the government 's review is only part of the reform programme in

education that we are taking forward. We have attainment

challenges up and running, we have the people equity funding making

sure that from the start of the coming financial year, ?120 million

will be going direct to headteachers to help them with the work of

closing the attainment gap. We have our national improvement framework

in place. We are now publishing more data about the performance of our

schools than ever before. From August this year, that data will be

informed by new standardised assessment. I have made very clear,

on many occasions, the priority I attach to making sure that we

continue to raise standards in our schools and, crucially, that we

close the stubborn attainment gap. I would hope Ruth Davidson and all

members of this chamber would get behind us as we do that. There we

go, education reform... Let's dig a little into the claim that he is

still making up his mind about some issues of education reform. I don't

think it stands up. Two years ago, a charity called the Home Time The

Foundation submitted proposals to the government to set up a series of

community run pilot schools across Scotland. There were told they would

get an answer soon, but they are still waiting. In November of last

year they wrote to Mr Swinney and it says this, the latter, we have lost

our patience with the whole process. It has been a series of false dawns.

Education Secretary says he needs more time. It is and it's the truth,

as we see from their experience, that the government has made up its

mind, it just won't say it? No, that is not the case. What we have said

to Home Town and other interests here is that these decisions

require, rightly and properly, to be taken in the context of the

governance review. It was one part of our wider programme of reform and

education. When you have a consultation with the potential for

some far-reaching reforms in education, I think it is absolutely

right that we take time to consider the responses and the way forward.

That is what I would think people would expect us to do. As we are

doing that, the other strands of the reform programme are well under way.

I don't think anybody in this chamber should underestimate,

because I know no headteacher in this country underestimate the

importance of giving ?120 million direct to headteachers. So they can

decide for themselves and fun for themselves the measures to improve

attainment in schools. Standardised assessment, which will start in

schools across the country from August of this year, further

informing the data that we now publish so that we know in detail

how our schools are performing. We know where schools are doing well

and we know where schools need to do further work to improve. This is an

ambitious and serious programme of reform. Instead of coming to this

chamber, and I think Ruth Davidson has said in the past that she does

support reforms to education, instead of coming here and sounding

as if she opposes what we are doing, isn't it time she got behind the

reforms we are taking forward? The First Minister is talking about her

delayed governance review and says we all have to wait for it. In their

letter, Hometown said they were able to crack on whether pilot projects

without disrupting the review at all. What was the reply they

received? I have that here. It says John Swinney is not prepared to do

it. The deal for them is that you sit on fresh ideas for two years,

you then say they have to wait on a review and you announce the review

has been delayed because council elections are on their way. The

First Minister said that education reform would be her defining

mission. Given this one example, who does she think she's coming? --

kidding? I spent Tuesday afternoon in a meeting with John Swinney and

our Council of International education advisers. As I was doing

that, I notice Ruth Davidson publishing a report on the

constitution. I don't they can go to take any lessons from her on

response abilities in government. It would make no sense at all, even for

a Conservative, to have a review of governance and pre-empt the outcome

by deciding already what track we are going to go down. We will

consider carefully the responses to that consultation. John Swinney,

rightly and properly, will come to the consultation. While we are doing

that, we will get on with the other strands of reforms, reforms that are

already starting to see difference across the education system, in

powering headteachers, giving them the funding they need to make a

difference and make sure we are able to tell exactly how our schools are

performing. That is the kind of action I have said was a priority,

and the action we are taking. Of course, we have seen just this week

a report showing that, in the last financial year, that we have the

information for, despite the moans of the opposition we saw real terms

spending in education, in local authorities, going up. Yet more

evidence of the priority given to education. As I say, I know how

important it is to me, if this is so important to the opposition, it is

time they got behind the reforms of this government instead of

continuing to come to this chamber and simply moaning.

If this is so important, why does she keep kicking the can down the

road? Here is one last quote from the letter to Mr Swinney. This is

really not a great demonstration of meaningful engagement with

stakeholders or a good start trying to empower teachers, parents and

communities to achieve fairness and equity in education, and they are

not wrong. A year and a half ago, the First Minister staked her

reputation on reforming Scotland's schools. What have we seen since

then? We have seen literacy standards slipping, numeracy

standards sliding, curriculum for excellence failing and now we have

seen her Education Secretary stalling. She keeps putting their

referendum on the front foot, but she is putting everyone else's

child's education on the back burner. I don't know about this

issue of putting something on the front foot, it appears to me that

every time Ruth Davidson stands up in this chamber, all she manages to

do is shoot herself in the foot. I want to talk about education and she

just continually tries to shoehorn in dimensions of independence and a

referendum. The only reason there is any talk about that at all is the

reckless behaviour of the Tories in taking us out of the European Union

against our well. I will let the Presiding Officer get back to my

priority, education. Now, it seems to me that what Ruth Davidson is

saying is that we shouldn't consult. Or if we do consult, we then

shouldn't bother to listen to what people say. Maybe that is the

approach the Conservatives at Westminster have taken, which is why

they have a massive backbench rebellion on their hands over school

funding right now because they are reducing the funding that many

schools will have. We will continue to take this forward by listening to

people and then making the decisions about the best way forward. Ruth

Davidson says, what are we doing to back up the priority? I have already

told her, maybe she should get into our schools and find out what is

happening, instead of publishing papers about the constitution? What

is happening is that our attainment challenge, our equity funding going

to headteachers, standardised assessments to inform teacher

judgment, more data being published a can determine how well the schools

are doing and what more we need to do to support those that work in the

front line in our education system. I will leave Ruth Davidson moaning

on the sidelines and I will get on with my priority of raising

attainment in our schools and closing the attainment gap. That is

what I have said is my priority and it will continue to be so.

Can I ask the First Minister what engagements she has planned?

Engagements to take forward the government's plan for Scotland. Has

been ten months since the election. Parents and teachers remain in the

dark about the SNP plans for our schools. As we have just heard, the

Education Secretary has kicked the on how schools are run down into the

long grass. The First Minister said that was just one part of education

reforms, and she is right. There was also the education bill, the very

symbol of this government's number one priority. It has been kicked

into the long grass. The SNP power grab to centralise every school

budget, kicked into the long grass as well. The roll-out of national

testing, which she also mentioned, has been delayed as well. Education

was the First Minister's defining mission. Isn't it the case that

education is defining this government as indecisive and

distracted? I think that question demonstrates that when a member of

Kezia Dugdale's own party, after spending a weekend at their

conference, described her as simply a pound shop Ruth Davidson, she was

right. Maybe more like buy one, get one free.

Kezia Dugdale has just said, where is the education bill? The education

Bill is what is going to deliver the proposals from the governance

review. When we have considered more than 1000 responses to that and

brought forward our proposals to Parliament, we will also bring

forward a bill, as we said we would do. Kezia Dugdale also said we are

centralising education budgets. Really? We are giving ?120 million

direct to headteachers in every single, almost every single one of

our schools across the country, giving resources and the power to

use them direct to headteachers. Only in the world of Scottish Labour

could that be described as centralising education budgets. It

is the exact opposite of centralising education budgets,

giving it to headteachers is decentralising it. We are empowering

headteachers to deliver what they think is required to improve

attainment, building on the work of our attainment challenge, the

national improvement framework, as I have already said, to the other half

of the act, is making sure we have the data to track improvements in

our schools. This is the kind of work we are getting on with, day in,

day out. I say to Kezia Dugdale what I said to Ruth Davidson, maybe they

should get out a bit more, into our schools, as I was yesterday, and see

more of what is happening in reality.

The SNP Government has failed for ten years in education. No wonder

she has to resort to personal attacks. That is beneath her, that

is what we expected Alex Salmond, not the First Minister who is

committed to closing the gap. It's not just a lack of progress that is

a problem, it is not just the lack of progress, it is actually the fact

that things are going backwards. John Swinney spent years cutting

education budgets as finance minister. He cut over 5000 teachers,

1000 support staff. He cut 150,000 student places in our colleges. He

cut university budgets and slashed grants for students. Now John

Swinney faces the consequences of John Swinney's own decisions. She

was supposed to be the safe pair of hands, but now we know that John

Swinney is fast getting a reputation for dropping the ball on education.

If teachers and parents can see that the Education Secretary is letting

down Scotland's children, why can't this First Minister?

Kezia Dugdale has come here, week after week and stood up in that

chamber and alleged that spending on our schools was going down. We had

figures published this week for the most recent we have these statistics

for, showing there was a real terms increase in education spending

across our local authority areas. Kezia Dugdale is scaremongering on

this. It has been exposed. Take universities, we have record numbers

now of young people going into our universities. We are exceeding our

manifesto commitment in terms of full-time places in our sector. We

are seeing the attainment gap narrow. More people from deprived

communities going into university than when we took office. We are

seeing progress because of decisions this Government has taken and the

investments this Government has made. There's so much more work

still to do, which is why we will get on with the reforms in our

education system that will make sure we deliver the commitments we have

made to young people and parents right across this country.

First Minister gave the game away there, she said in the last year the

money for education went up. That is supposed to make up for it going

down over the nine years that preceded it. The reality is that she

has cut ?1.5 billion from local services since 2011. That is the

truth she can't escape from. And I wouldn't want the First Minister to

say that John Swinney has not been busy. He's launched a frame works,

review and an advertising review. He's not done anything to improve

our schools. It's not just him as well. Since May, this Government has

launched more than 120 consultations and reviews. That's three a week.

The enterprise Review has three reviews within it. The health and

social care delivery plan, another four within it. There is a review

into the review of fracking. This might make sense if this was a new

Government. But this SNP Government has been in place for 10 years.

Now, I know the First Minister has only one thing on her mind, but when

is she going to stop talking about Governing and actually start doing

some Governing. Can I say to Kezia Dugdale and I would advise her to

listen, this Government will never stop talking to, engaging with and

consulting the people of Scotland because actually Labour stopped

doing that. And they went from first place to second place in Scottish

politics and then from second place to third place and who knows right

now where they are going to end up? Let's get back to education. Kezia

Dugdale comes here and talks about education funding. Now, I've got a

very basic funding for her. If she doesn't think enough money is being

spent on schools in council areas across our country, why is it that

there are Labour councils right now after spending ten years moaning

about it, proposing to freeze the council tax next year? Why aren't

they using the power they have spent ten years asking for and refusing to

spend more for education? That is a question Kezia Dugdale can't answer.

The oh other things Kezia Dugdale doesn't want to talk about, she

doesn't want to talk about the ?120 million going direct to head

teachers. She doesn't want to talk about the extra resources through

the attainment challenge. She doesn't want to talk about the many

things that teachers are doing in our schools right now to improve

education and close the attainment gap because that doesn't suit the

narrative of Kezia Dugdale. I will leave Kezia Dugdale whining on the

sidelines and me and this Government will continue to get on with the

hard work of improving our schools. Thank you presiding office. The

First Minister posed a direct question. For ten years the SNP have

said that the council tax is unfair. The question isn't why Labour

councils are freezing it, it is why the SNP haven't scrapped it? For ten

years we've had Labour councils. We've had Labour SMPs in this

chamber saying, end the council tax freeze. So as soon as we end the

freeze, what do we have? We have Labour lease leaders in Inverclyde

saying they'll become the longest leaders to freeze the council tax.

Labour doesn't know what it's doing from one day of the week until the

next. That is why they're in the mess they are in. I will continue to

make sure we do our job of delivering improvements in our

education system, delivering for the parents and the children right

across this country. Thank you, Presiding Officer. I have

been contacted by a local nursery owner, which looks after 133

children. So as the First Minister as disappointed as me to hooer they

will be hit with a hike of 65%? This will mean inevitable price increases

for parents and is preventing mothers from returning to work? We

have introduced a business rates release scheme, as the Finance

Secretary announced in this chamber a couple of weeks ago, making sure

that seven out of ten business premises across our country pay

either the same or smaller business rates in the coming year they do

now. Five out of ten across our country pay no business rates

whatsoever. But the Finance Secretary announced additional

relief for the hospitality sector and for office premises in Aberdeen

and Aberdeenshire. The reason we did that, of course, was to free up

local councils to use resources that they might have to provide any

additional support they think is required. Which is why it is so

disappointing that Tory councillors in some councils have voted against

local rates relief schemes. Instead of coming here asking me that

question, perhaps they should direct it to Tory councillors in his own

area. To ask the First Minister when the Cabinet will next meet? Tuesday.

I think everybody in this chamber and everybody outside the chamber

wants Scotland to be successful in closing the attainment gap in our

schools. But that gap is not the result of merely one simple

phenomenon. It has many complex causes. One of the most significant

is the additional support needs that many young people have and because

of the way we recognise far more of those needs now and that's welcome,

one in four of our young people in Scotland is now recognised as having

additional support needs. And yet, evidence given to the education

committee here in Parliament this week was shocking about the lack of

provision to meet those needs. One in seven reduction in additional

support needs teachers since 2010. One in ten reduction in additional

support needs assistance. And the shocking suggestion that a teacher

in a Scottish school was told that in low of training they need to

develop their skills with additional support needs they were told to go

away and watch the Big Bang Theory. Was the First Minister as shocked to

hear that as I was? I was right to raise the question of additional

support needs. He is right to say that we have extended the definition

of additional support needs. So we capture more people in that

definition to ensure they get the support that they need. And what

we've seen, I referred earlier on to statistics published this week,

showing increased spending on schools. Within that we saw

increased spending in terms of additional learning support. But I

do think that there is a fundamental point here, it may be a point of

difference between us and I would ask him consider this. Something

like 95% of all children with additional support needs are taught

in mainstream schools, so we must not see the support they need as

just being support that they get from additional support teachers.

Every single teacher working in our schools has a responsibility to

provide the support that those young people need. It is not simply a case

of looking at dedicated additional support teachers. And that's why it

is so important. Two things, firstly, spending has increased in

the statistics I spoke about, but also that we see in recent figures

the number of teachers maintained and slightly increasing as well. The

last part of the question was in relation to some evidence given to a

committee this week and what he has just narrated there, in terms of the

evidence given, would represent in my view practise that is completely

unacceptable. But that's why the Scottish

Government has supported development of resources for autism, for

example, so that teachers do have access to those resources. The

autism tool box is there to help teachers and educational support

staff meet the #23450eds of pupils with autism. It is important that

teachers are aware because the resources are there for the training

teachers and it is important they have access to that.

It is clear to anyone who has looked at the evidence given to Parliament

this week that the specialists working in this field do not feel

that teachers have access to the resources they need. The Scottish

Government is right to want to recruit more teachers. There have

been concerns expressed they will not have the time to develop the

skills they need to do the job that our modern education system requires

quite rightly of them. It is vital, yes, that all teachers have access

to a level of training in additional support needs and the committee

heard this week that in the view of many people it is less degree of

training than was in place 25 years ago. But we also need to be

investing in the specialists who can give the additional support where it

is needed. And that specialism needs to be an

attractive and well-supported career path for teachers. So, can I ask the

First Minister, has she read the evidence that was given to the

committee this week? If she hasn't had time yet, will she commit to do

so very soon? And will she ensure that the next time we discuss this

we're not talking about the level of provision going down, as the level

of demand goes up, and teachers being told to go and watch sitcoms?

Well, yes, I have looked at the evidence andly study all the

evidence -- and I will study all the evidence. If there is further action

the Government needs to take, I will make sure working the Englandation

secretary, that we do that. I do think it is -- Education Secretary,

that we do that. It is important that in terms of the investment I

referred to earlier on. And we recognise this is not a case simply

of special list teachers, pont -- specialist teachers. This is about

making sure all teachers in our schools have the training and are

equipped to support children with additional needs. In terms of the

comments about teachers being asked to wach The Big Bang Theory, that is

totally unacceptable. More than that there is no need for that to happen.

I have referred to the resources that are available. This tool box is

already very well used. We will, of course, now re-engage with local

short authorities to ensure they are aware and promoting it within all of

their settings. We, I think, do the right thing in terms of having a

wide definition of young people with additional support needs. We also do

the right thing in supporting as many of those young people as

possible to learn in mainstream education. Patrick Harvey, although

we might have some disagreements around the right way, he is right to

raise this issue. It is of huge importance and an issue that the

Scottish Government will pay close attention to. To ask what issues

will be discussed at the next meeting of the Cabinet? Matters of

the importance of the people of Scotland. Now she's thinking about

the plans for education, will she think again about national testing

too? She told me before in this chamber that she would avoid league

tables. Has she kept that promise? We'd all publish league tables and

we will not publish league tables. I was asked if I would change my mind

on national testing? No, I will not. I do not support national testing

and we will not introduce national testing. What we are introducing is

standardised assessment which will be used to help, well teachers and

the professionals understand the definition. I say that he may wish

to talk to them to educate himself more. ... About whether or not a

young person to meeting the right level of the curriculum for

excellence. This is fundamental disagreement we have. It is

important that a teacher, as well as all the other judgments they bring

to bear, do have an objective basis to form that judgment. We will

continue to introduce standardised assessment and we will continue to

publish the data. I think all parents and all members of this

chamber have a right to see. How are our schools doing in terms of the

performance of young people in terms of the required levels? If we don't

know, how do we know if we are doing well or need to do better? The worst

thing any First Minister could allow to continue is some flying blind

situation, where we hope we are doing the right things. I want to

make sure we have the information to make sure we are doing the right

things. The First Minister is wrong, we

already have national school league tables. Every local authority, every

school, every test result, it is published by the Scottish

Government, her own government has published this information, on

experimental information, national school league tables. She promised

that would never, ever happen. But that is exactly what is happening.

The National Institute for education, they have made it clear,

they have said standardised testing crushes creativity both for learners

and for teachers, it does not take full account of pupil progress and

causes unnecessary stress for the children and young people who are

subjected to it. Is it not time that she abandoned the implimentation of

national testing, last brought in by Michael Forsyth under Margaret

Thatcher's regime? Isn't it about time the First Minister recognised

she has got this wrong? No, I think Willie Rennie is one -- 100% wrong

on this. I would go further than that, I think he is trying to

mislead people, maybe inadvertently, about what is happening to

standardised assessment. I know what the Scottish Government is

publishing. We are not publishing league tables and we will not

publish league tables where we rank schools. What we will continue to

publishes information that tells us, school by school, how young people

are performing. You know what? I think parents, teachers, I think

those of us who are accountable for the education system, they have a

right to know that. If we don't know what percentage of our young people

are meeting or not meeting the required level of curriculum for

excellence, how are we supposed to take the action to put it right if

things are not as good as they should be? How are we supposed to

take the action before the young person gets further into school,

when it becomes too lazy to rectify? I make no apology for this. Those of

us who make policy in education need to know that as well. It is not

national testing, it is standardised assessment to inform teacher

judgment. I said before to Willie Rennie when he raised this, when we

had last meeting, Larry Flanagan gave what I thought was the best

articulation of the difference between testing and assessments,

perhaps Willie Rennie should talk to him. It is information that we

should be publishing to allow us to know whether or not we are doing as

we should be doing by the young people in this country. I will

never, ever make any apology for that. Points of order at the end of

First Minister's Questions, please. The First Minister agreed in

December with concerns about the openness and transparency of the

Scottish police authority. Now a member of that authority has

resigned, reportedly because of the reaction to her having dared to

raise a dissenting voice about the way it conducts business. At the

Public audit committee this morning, Scottish Government official said on

this matter that it requires further discussion. Does the First Minister

agree that it is not further discussion that is needed, but for

the Scottish Government to tell Andrew Flanagan that his damaging

governance review is failing police Scotland and failing the public?

What will the Scottish Government to to make sure this vital scrutiny

body can become a proportionate, accountable and transparent as

required? The governance review is about improving governance and

accountability and transparency. I am clear that decisions taken by the

Scottish police authority should be made in public session and that

papers and agendas for those sessions should be available to the

public and, indeed, to the media. The member will be aware, or should

be aware, that, in January, there was a report that Her Majesty's

Inspectorate of cost Abri would inspect the police authority during

2017-18. That will be the first such inspection since the STA was

established and it will look at not just the efficiency and

effectiveness of the body, but also specific areas of focus will be

around the transparency and effectiveness of the way they do

their business. I hope all members would welcome that. Transparency and

accountability is vital. I say again what I have said before, the

Scottish police authority must make sure they operate in line with those

principles. Today's Times reports not just a Westminster power grab on

devolved matters such as farming and fisheries, but a cash grab. Can I

ask the First Minister for her reaction to these latest Tory

attempts to undermine and we can this Parliament? Well, we do have

two important revelations in this morning's editions. She seems to

suggest that in areas where Westminster currently has no power

over Scotland at all, for example agriculture, they intend to use

Brexit to seize such power. A clear undermining of the devolution

settlement, if ever there was such a thing. On money, instead of Scotland

getting its fair share of any savings that Westminster makes by no

longer having to pay EU contributions, Ruth Davidson's

suggestion seems to be that the Treasury should keep all of that

money and the Scottish Government should be left to raise taxes in

order to fund farm payments. That is absolutely outrageous and completely

unacceptable. I hope before the day is out the Tories will have

clarified this and make sure there will be no power grab and there will

be no cash grab on the Scottish Government by the Westminster

Government. Now, I really don't know whether this morning's interview was

just inept or whether it was a window into the thinking of

Westminster, probably both. I tell you what is clear, Westminster has

got no intentions of giving new powers to this Parliament. All they

want to do is muscle in on the powers we already have.

Presiding Officer, last weekend the First Minister was quick to respond

to comments made about nationalism by Sadiq Khan, the Mayor of London,

at the Scottish Labour conference in Perth, who described these as

spectacularly ill judged and an insult. Presiding Officer, according

to last Friday's Advertiser, the deputy minister of the SNP

administration on Ross Council, until recently, employed by the

First Minister John Swinney, told councillors the following. Does not

reflect on concerns that we have been under the heel of foreign

influence and power for 300 years. The island of Britain is no longer

subject the actions of quislings who may seek to see smaller cultures

extinguished on an island of coffins by redcoats. Given the First

Minister's comments about Sadiq Khan's anguish, does she believe the

council's comments are appropriate, order she apply one standard to

members of other parties and a different standard to members of her

own? I apply the same standard to everybody. Let me be clear, I

condemn any comments or any language, no matter who it is from,

that is in any way, shape or form racist or anti-English, in any way

seeks to divide people on the basis of ethnicity. That is not what I

party or movement, the movement I am part of, is for all represents. Let

me also say this, I ask people to reflect on this quite carefully.

Right now, in the United Kingdom, the SNP, the Scottish Government and

the wider independence movement is right now amongst the loudest voices

in the UK for diversity, tolerance, freedom of movement, the loudest

voices standing up for the benefits of migration. We still have a Tory

government that will not guarantee the rights of EU nationals to live

here. That is what it disgraceful. I will practice the values that I hold

dear and I would expect everybody to do likewise.

I didn't hear you, right. I would like to ask the First Minister what

measures the Scottish Government will take to ensure there is

appropriate social housing to meet the requirements of disabled,

vulnerable and frail older people. We are committed to expanding social

housing in communities across Scotland. That is why 35,000 of our

50,000 affordable homes target will be for rent. Good housing is

important for disabled or frail older people, and it will match the

local council strategies. We will shortly publish a strategy that will

take account of different needs and demographics, as well as improving

access to suitable housing. While the integration of health and social

care to help people stay at home instead of hospital is welcome, it

hits the buffers if appropriate housing is in short supply.

Notwithstanding what the First Minister has just said, is she aware

of recent reports highlighting the dearth of sheltered housing,

especially for the frail elderly, calling for a commission to consider

and report on long-term funding and the provision of supported

accommodation. Will the First Minister committed to that? I think

it is important that we have that strategic approach in place, but

also that we committed to sustainable funding as well. We

share the concerns that the housing sector has right now about UK

Government changes to funding for supported accommodation. That is

part of a broader approach to cuts that is having a considerable impact

on people across the country. We will very carefully consider the

recently published report on the effective supply of supported

housing and we will look at recommendations, including setting

up a commission to make sure older people can access the support they

need. We are absolutely committed to working with the sector to protect

the most vulnerable and also ensure that supported accommodation is put

on a sustainable and secure financial footing. To ask the First

Minister what the responses to reports that sports funding is set

for a 20% reduction over three years. It has been described as

Sports Scotland as heartbreaking. The budget has not been set beyond

2017-18. But I am happy to confirm we have no plans to reduce it by 20%

by 2020-20. We are presenting Sport Scotland with as much flux ability

as possible, within what we accept a tight settlement. We want to give

them flexibility, not least in light of projected reductions in lottery

funding in coming years. The sports minister has written to the UK

Government seeking to address that. I hope he will have support in doing

so. Beyond the core sport budget, we work to increase support for active

living. For example, since 2010 we have increased the budget for active

travel to encourage more walking and cycling by 116%, up to ?39.2 million

in 2017. We will continue to deliver the policies and funding to support

people to live as healthily and actively as possible. This

decimation of the sports budget, along with a major cut in council

funding, means more of those in challenging circumstances will find

sport activity out of their reach. People are not just entries on Derek

Mackay's balance sheet. Attempting to save money this way delivers

outcomes requiring inventions far costlier than the savings the

government are attempting to make. This policy will not tackle health

inequality. It will drive it. Can I respectfully ask the First Minister,

will she please take another look at this issue? The potential damage to

sport, activity, the third sector and communities will take years to

repair. We will continue to work with sports Scotland, governing

bodies and everybody with an interest in sport and active living,

to make sure that we are making the right investments.

We have invested heavily in sport over recent years and we will

continue to invest heavily in sport, not just at the elite end of sport,

but in community and grass-roots sport as well. That is why the

legacy of the Commonwealth Games, a community hub has been established

in many parts of Scotland, it was so vitally important. We will also

invest in wider landscape, to ensure that we are promoting active travel,

encouraging people to walk more. One of the things that is most fantastic

about what we are doing in schools right now is supporting schools to

have the daily mile. We will continue to make sure we work with

all of those with an interest, to support those aspirations. I would

simply say to Brian Whittle, I would be equally respectful, we are seeing

real terms cut in our budget because of decisions taken at Westminster.

In this Parliament, we also have a situation that, when we made a

different decision on the higher rate of tax to try to protect public

services, the Conservatives opposed that as well. Instead, they wanted

to see us give a hefty tax cut to top earners. It is not a week after

week for Tories to come to the chamber and request more spending on

this, that and the other if they are also asking us to deliver tax cuts

for the wealthiest in our society. I think it is about time they decided

what their position actually was. When they decide that, they will

have a bit more credibility raising these issues in this chamber. To ask

the First Minister how many children in the measures in the poverty Bill

will be lifted out of poverty by May 2021? It will require ministers to

meet four targets, fewer than 10% of children living in relative poverty,

fewer than 5% in absolute poverty, fewer than 5% in combined low income

and material deprivation and fewer than 5% of children in persistent

poverty. The bill will make Scotland the only part of the UK with

statutory targets to reduce and ultimately eradicate child poverty.

However, this is an important point, it is not targeting themselves that

will reduce child poverty, it is the policy and action week take. That is

why the bill also requires the government to have specific measures

to lift children out of poverty. The first bill will be published next

year and updated every five years. We do need action and not just

targets. Labour lifted 125,000 children in Scotland out of poverty

in Government, by lifting incomes, not just by setting targets. We are

ready to make the child poverty bill a success. That is why we backed the

calls by the poverty action group to top up child benefit for families in

Scotland and to take thousands of kids out of poverty. And I think if

the Scottish Government has any hope of making its child poverty bill a

success, it has to give that bill some teeth and start using the

powers of this Parliament. So, can I ask the First Minister, will the

Government support child pove Child Poverty Action Group and the call to

top up child benefit and do it by making sure the bill can deliver

that increase now? Firstly, we will always seek to have

a close dialogue with the Child Poverty Action Group. It was them

among other organisations organisations that asks us to extend

the provision of free school meals. I seem to remember Labour voted

against in this chamber. We have brought forward plans to use the

additional powers that will come to this Parliament to introduce a best

start grant, where we will target resources on low income families.

Giving an enhanced grant to parents when a child is born. For every

child that is born, not just for the first child and then payments during

that child's childhood when they go to nursery and again to school. We

have set out clear plans about how we're going to increase the incomes

of those families with children who most need it. Of course we'll

continue to talk to others. The action group, other organisations

and interests across this chamber about what further action we can

take to tackle child poverty. I hope this is an area where we can all

agree that, and I do agree with Mark grif grif that targets are

important. It is important they are in this bill. It is the policies we

introduce that will make the biggest difference.

There we have it. The close of First Minister's questions. Dominated by

education. It was nursery education, earlier provision in schools. Let's

chew over, I think that was a phase used there - chew over. Let's go

with Ruth Davidson's first of all. She was saying the education review

is being delayed. The education bill is being delayed and Nicola Sturgeon

arguing sensibly, taking a wider look. To quote a former Prime

Minister, it was education, education, education today. When you

look at what Ruth Davidson was going on about, the governance review is

about who is best to look after our schools. Who is best to take the

decision. This is close to the Tory hearts ba u they want... This the

point. Ruth Davidson's point was why haven't you had the results? She

touched on one thing which was important, the local council

elections are coming up and she suggested this had been shelved just

to get through the council elections because a lot of councillors will

not want to give power to schools. The direction of travel, to be

clear, is empowering schools ?120 million to the head teachers and

perhaps further after the review. It is important. There was a question

about the SNP centralising and there was Nicola Sturgeon coming back

saying we are giving this direct to head teachers, what are you

complaining about? It is controversial this idea of giving

more to head teachers not councils. It will not be popular with

everyone, including some teachers. Teaching unions are saying, we are

not accountants. This will be an extra burden on teachers and head

teachers. It is not necessarily welcomed even in schools. The

education brief is always a stinker. John Swinney was given it because he

is the tough guy. It is not just a stinker. Usually

you are to put it into the context of Nicola Sturgeon saying, judge me

on the educational performance of this Government. She's not just put

John Swinney, her most trusted minister in charge, she says we have

to make progress, which is why all these questions came out on it

today. The opposition feel that the Government is vulnerable on this.

Because they see the progress, as far as they can see it, is not made.

Substantial interrogation from the leader about kids who require

additional support? The headline is one head teacher was told to go and

watch The Big Bang Theory. It is a good theory. Asperger's. There's

been a rise in the number of children with additional support

needs. Nicola Sturgeon saying, right to raise the question, but resources

were being targeted and teachers more generally had to assist. She

was looking beyond the numbers of additional support need teachers,

but looking at the widing teaching staff. Obviously then that question

of specific training in dealing with additional support needs is more

important if it is not specialist teachers dealing with it, but all

the teachers. There are two or three topics he makes his own and league

tables is what he's pursued again and again. Sharp exchanges there. Sc

He has. I don't think he'll get any change from Nicola Sturgeon on this.

She was forthright in her defence of what she insists is not national

testing. She calls it standardised assessment. She says the Government

are not producing league tables. Technically she is right. They are

providing information that others can use to make league takes.

I see Kezia Dugdale coming down the stairs there. The tone between her

and Nicola Sturgeon was... Id did it nasty at times. She said this is not

worthy of you, this is of Alex Salmond.

There was some below the belt punches there. It is unusual.

Although they disagree on things, there tends to be a certain amount

of respect. Kezia Dugdale rose slowly at one point as if she was

preparing an aggressive attack. There were not punches thrown, but

it was not far off it. What did you make of that? It was very fiery and

feisty. It is unusual to get such a level of such personal animosity. It

shows perhaps how detailed and how sharp those accusations are that the

opposition parties that... She feels she had to respond in such a sharp

way. We will come back to you in a wee second. Hanging over all of it

is always the question of Brexit and a topic coming to the fore this

week, we had Nicola Sturgeon, the elect whur saying it is -- lecture,

saying it is almost a necessity there should be a further

independence referendum. We have the Conservative conference this

weekend, where we will get the opposite viewpoint. I took the

chance to speak to a Tory and nationalist SNP whether there was a

mandate. I put that question to Richard Lockhead. Absolutely. We

were elected in 2016 on a manifesto that said there was a material

change in circumstances. There could be another referendum in Scotland.

It could be taken forward by the SNP. We have a democratic mandate to

hold a referendum. Given the EU referendum is the biggest material

change since the Second World War, it gives a mandate if the

negotiations don't go well in the next few months. I do not agree with

anything that Richard said there. I don't thid there's any justification

for a second independence referendum. I don't think there'd a

need or any mandate for a second referendum. Mandate is different

from justification. Justification means you don't want it to happen.

They don't have an entitlement. Independence and the future of the

union, the constitution, these are matters reserved to the United

Kingdom Parliament. The way in which we did it in 2014 was exemplary.

Both Governments came together to negotiate in agreement going

forward. Richard, you look unhappy. I am sure the Conservative Party in

the past have said it is up to the people of Scotland to decide their

own constitutional future. The majority of SNPs support

independence the SMPs and we have a... Do you accept you have to get

the agreement of the UK Government and Parliament because it is a

matter reserved under the 1998 act? The Scottish Government have the

opportunity to speak to the UK Government. It would be a moral

obligation to accept the people of Scotland. We were elected on

manifesto... EU is the biggest one since the Second World War. We've

had an independence referendum. That referendum was held on the basis it

was a once in a lifetime if not once in a generation event. Nicola

Sturgeon has said many times, even before, even since Brexit, she will

not call a second independence referendum until it is clear that

public opinion has changed. Public opinion is very clearly... During

that 2014 referendum, people in Scotland were told the way to secure

membership of the European Union was to stay in the United Kingdom. If we

voted yes, we would be out of the European Union now. The way to

secure it was to stay in. We were sold a better from the Better

Together campaign that if we voted no in the independence referendum we

would stay in Europe. Here we are, Scotland voted no in 2014 and we are

being taken out of Europe against our opinion. The Prime Minister has

made it plain we want the freest access to the single market. If

Richard would take a step back, think about what the Scottish and

the British Government are saying, the two positions are 95% the same.

Yet the SNP, when we have an opportunity to dial it down or

ratchet it up, they ratchet it up. Theresa May said we were a

partnership of equals. She would listen, where 62% voted to stay. She

stood up and delivered a speech saying we are leaving the single

market. This is completely untrue. Having the fully possible access,

having the access is not hard Brexit. If a hard Brexit happened no

access... In a word each. Will there be a referendum in 2018? Every day

goes by we are closer towards the cast-iron case for another

referendum. There is joo no need for it and no justification for it and

no mandate for it. I told you it was a lively topic. Lively discussion

there. I am still joined by my two colleagues. Do you think there'll be

a referendum in the near future? Yes. I think there. It is very

difficult to see how Nicola Sturgeon gets out of the position she's in.

She's put a whole lot of recommendations to the UK

Government. It seems as if the recommendations will be dismissed.

If they are Taking their time, aren't they? They are taking their

time. From everything that she has said, by inching ever closer, she

has no choice. If it goes the way we think with the UK Government, she'll

have to call one probably next year. Do you think she's not particularly

keen to do that? I don't think she wants to be pushed into a corner in

timing. I think she really, it is inevitable now she'll have to call

it at some point. There are some within the nationalist camp saying,

do it after Brexit? Absolutely. I think she may be pushed to try and

call it earlier. I am not sure she'll get permission to call it

that early. You think they might turn it down? My prediction will be

that Theresa May will say, yes, you can have it, but not yet. I would be

surprised if it happens before 2020. There were limits set in it. In

2014, it was one question by the end of 2014, wasn't it? The UK

Government are in control of this. My feeling is that Theresa May has

got her mind elsewhere, let's say. Thank you both very much indeed. My

mind perhaps shifts towards the Conservative conference, which is

due at the weekend. I will be there to bring you all the news. From me

and from Holyrood, goodbye.