05/03/2014 Politics Scotland


05/03/2014

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Hello and welcome to Politics Scotland. Coming up on the

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programme: Currency in an independent Scotland. The debate

:00:25.:00:27.

continues as the man who chairs the Scottish Government's Fiscal

:00:28.:00:29.

Commission says the Chancellor's "not serious" in ruling out monetary

:00:30.:00:42.

union. And here at Westminster, consensus and support for the

:00:43.:00:44.

Ukraine, but consensus and support for the

:00:45.:00:53.

our live debate in the chamber this afternoon. The Scottish Government

:00:54.:00:55.

welcome the use of the latest technology in health care, but

:00:56.:00:58.

Labour call for a fundamental review of the NHS. In Edinburgh and London,

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finance and the economy are once again proving central to the

:01:03.:01:06.

independence debate. In Holyrood this morning, Crawford Beveridge,

:01:07.:01:08.

the chair of the Scottish Government's Fiscal Commission,

:01:09.:01:10.

questioned the Chancellor's assertion there wouldn't be a

:01:11.:01:13.

monetary union after a Yes vote, saying he "wasn't serious".

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Meanwhile, arguments continue over the economic outlook of an

:01:17.:01:18.

independent Scotland and London's dominance of the UK economy. First,

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here's Mr Beveridge in committee. In our opinion, economic 's will trump

:01:31.:01:35.

the politics and good heads will prevail in a yes vote. We would not

:01:36.:01:40.

want to talk about an alternative plan, we would say there are lots of

:01:41.:01:44.

options, but at this moment our advice would be to go down the path

:01:45.:01:49.

of recommending to the government that they stick with the monetary

:01:50.:01:55.

union, we will spend some time on the Fiscal Commission working group,

:01:56.:02:00.

trying to help the rest of the UK understand the strong advantage is

:02:01.:02:03.

to that and the strong disadvantages there would be if they went against

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that. I'm now joined in the studio by the former director of the

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Scottish Conservatives and now a PR executive, Moray Macdonald, he's our

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political commentator for the afternoon... Good afternoon. First

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of all, let us look at what he was saying on the economy committee this

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morning. Interesting to see that he is going with the line that the

:02:27.:02:32.

Chancellor is bluffing. He is meeting tomorrow with experts. This

:02:33.:02:39.

is the line they will person who. That is the way that the campaign

:02:40.:02:49.

has to go -- per suing. If they are seen to switch tack, it will load

:02:50.:02:56.

very bad and it will look as though they have not thought through their

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ideas. Their plea is simple, they believe that an independent Scotland

:03:03.:03:05.

would be best to keep the pound and I cannot see that they will change.

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What happens after the referendum, is different. We are talking about

:03:12.:03:17.

the economic outlook for an independent Scotland. The speech by

:03:18.:03:24.

Alex Salmond in London yesterday was talking about the dominance of

:03:25.:03:28.

London in the UK economy and he called it a dark Star and suggested

:03:29.:03:34.

that Scotland could be the north and lights. What is your view? --

:03:35.:03:42.

norther lights. There is no doubt that London dominates the UK

:03:43.:03:48.

economy. That has always been an issue, not just for Scotland, but

:03:49.:03:55.

the English regions. This is an interesting part of his argument

:03:56.:03:59.

about what he wants to achieve with independence. He wants to try and

:04:00.:04:05.

create an aspirational Scotland, where entrepreneurs and businesses

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are attracted to something that might allow growth. Thank you. Let's

:04:10.:04:16.

get some political reaction to might allow growth. Thank you. Let's

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now from the Garden Lobby at Holyrood. I'm joined by the SNP's

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Christian Allard, Iain Gray for Labour, and from the

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Christian Allard, Iain Gray for we have Murdo Fraser. Good

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afternoon. Thank you for joining me. We were hearing from Crawford

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Beveridge this morning and it looks like it is the first plan all along.

:04:37.:04:45.

Is this a serious line of argument that you are per suing? Is a

:04:46.:04:53.

currency union the best -- that you are going after. Crawford Beveridge

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with his group have been sitting and looking at alternatives and that was

:05:04.:05:09.

the best option. That is not the language we want to hear. It is

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better to have one plan. It is the Chancellor who is using plan a and

:05:20.:05:29.

plan B. Perhaps he will have questions to answer. He has not been

:05:30.:05:41.

very cooperative. The governor of the Bank of England needs to speak

:05:42.:05:44.

to the Scottish Government about all the options. You still insist they

:05:45.:05:53.

are bluffing. We all think so. It is common sense, it is not a question

:05:54.:06:00.

of politics, what will prevail after a Yes vote will be common sense.

:06:01.:06:08.

What will prevail after the vote? A currency union might be the best

:06:09.:06:15.

option? After the vote, the Chancellor of the UK will decide

:06:16.:06:19.

solely on the basis of the rest of the United Kingdom. He will do that

:06:20.:06:26.

on the advice of treasury. The Treasury's advice is that we should

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refuse to take part in a currency union. The current Chancellor has

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said he would accept that advice and the next Chancellor has said he

:06:37.:06:41.

would accept that advice. The currency union will not happen and

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simply to stick your fingers in your ears and say we are not listening is

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an irresponsible response from what is supposed to be a Scottish

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Government. Murdo Fraser, U2 are joined at the hip on this. -- you

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two. He said it would be rational -- rational and sensible. What about

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what happens after a Yes vote? It is not up to just Scotland what happens

:07:20.:07:24.

to the pound. It is up to the rest of the UK. The most interesting part

:07:25.:07:29.

of the evidence was there compelling response from important academics.

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These are independent academics like David Bell, Angus Armstrong and

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others, all saying the same thing, that the response

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others, all saying the same thing, Osborne, Ed Balls and Danny

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Alexander is understandable Osborne, Ed Balls and Danny

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attach to the rest of the UK economy Osborne, Ed Balls and Danny

:08:03.:08:09.

Scotland. We need to listen, not to the partisan voices, but to the

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independent experts who say that George Osborne and company are quite

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right to say this. The people bluffing IDS MP and the Fiscal

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Commission. They are putting their heads in the sand and not coming up

:08:24.:08:31.

with a Plan B. Alex Salmond was in London yesterday. He was talking

:08:32.:08:38.

about the dominance of London and the UK economy will stop --. Is a

:08:39.:08:52.

dominant London as successful London and that is good for the rest of the

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UK? Vince Cable is a dark Star. Vince Cable said that London was

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taking the light out of the rest of the UK. The First Minister needs to

:09:09.:09:17.

come to London and speak to everyone, not like the Prime

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Minister. He made it clear that what we would like to be is giving a

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shining example to the rest of the UK, what the rest of the UK could

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be. It is not all about London. This is an awkward position for a Labour,

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because in some ways you want to fight against what the SMP are

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saying, but norther in England misses out to London -- SNP. Much of

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our financial services industry in Edinburgh is successful because we

:10:04.:10:07.

are part of the same country as the City of London. To separate those

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links would damage those industries which employ thousands of people,

:10:14.:10:18.

particularly in the East of Scotland. That is why we are seeing

:10:19.:10:27.

the warning from Standard Life. A lot of their customers are self of

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the border and want to be part of the same regime in London -- south.

:10:32.:10:38.

They are making contingency plans to leave Scotland and that would be

:10:39.:10:45.

disastrous. Once again, the SNP put their fingers in their ears and say

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they do not mean what they are saying. It is time they started

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listening. Murdo Fraser, there was a documentary on BBC Two on Monday,

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they were talking to Boris Johnson and he said that if there was more

:11:03.:11:06.

jam for London, it would flow out to the rest of the UK. Is London's

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dominance not good for Scotland and the North of England? The important

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point is what difference would independence make. Even if you

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accept the permanent -- premise that London is too dominant and there are

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different views, how does independence help? If you look at

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the Irish economy, it is equally affected by the dominance of London

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despite the fact they are independent. By becoming

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despite the fact they are independent, we cut ourselves off

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from some of the economic success that flows from London and some of

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the benefits of being part of that union which will only exist if we

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vote Noel in the referendum. What that out the Aberdeen question? What

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was your reaction to that? It is ridiculous. I do not know if anyone

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knows about Willie Young, he is not the leader. There is a problem of

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leadership in that council and I would want to see Aberdeen in the

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news for another reason. It is a positive destination. Was he an

:12:32.:12:44.

embarrassment to Aberdeen? There has been embarrassment on both sides of

:12:45.:12:49.

this dispute. The First Minister said a letter to them using language

:12:50.:12:55.

which the First Minister should never use. The idea of banning the

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First Minister from buildings in Aberdeen does not make sense and I

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believe that is not going ahead in the discussions in the council. We

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have to leave it there. Thank you all very much. Let's head to our

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live debate in the chamber at Holyrood now. It's a Scottish

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Government debate on the use of technology in the health service,

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saying how that can help people live longer, healthier lives in their own

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homes. Labour welcome that, but are calling for a full, independent

:13:31.:13:33.

review of the health service to identify pressure points. First of

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all, let's hear from the Health Secretary Alex Neil... Those digital

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health leaders agree with me that there is an opportunity to stab up

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the pace of change and the scale of change and to exploit significant

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investments made in the core infrastructure. While we are ahead

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of the game, we need to ensure that we focus our energies and support

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digital technologies to step up the pace of delivery for our 2020

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priorities of person centred effective and high quality safe

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health and social care. Many members will be familiar of the reviews of

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national health technology programmes south of the border and

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the astronomical cost with little to show from much of that investment.

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That unsuccessful approach has failed for many reasons, including a

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lack of collaboration with service providers and bad public

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consultation. The Scottish Government recognises the risks. We

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have taken a consultative approach with patience, made improvements

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based on clinical leadership and local innovation and we have

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recognised that the technology is an enabler to achieving a 2020 vision

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and not an end in its own right. I want to highlight some examples of

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where technology is delivering for patients in Scotland and where we

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can do more. In Renfrewshire, people with dementia have been able to stay

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in their own homes for two years longer than expected. It is an

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effective use of resources. The project

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effective use of resources. The has been put back into

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effective use of resources. The vulnerable people in Scotland

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received telecare services last year. In east Ayrshire, at Govan in

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south air share and parts of north Ayrshire has shown that telehealth

:15:41.:15:45.

has reduced emergency admissions by 70%. And GP appointments by 26% for

:15:46.:15:52.

patients with chronic lung diseases. There's more to come. Already over

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8,000 people have been involved in the initial planning stage of Living

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It Up, our innovative ?10 million partnership programme with the UK

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technology strategy board. It uses televisions and smartphones to help

:16:10.:16:13.

people manage their own health and wellbeing at home. I think we would

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all agree that self management has a big role to play in the future

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delivery of health and social care. There's clearly a demand for all of

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these areas of work, but we want to do much more. I want to see it all

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happen with a greater pace across the health and Sorbol social care

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sector in Scotland. I'm therefore pleased to confirm to the chamber

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that an additional ?10 million of funding will be provided to NHS

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boards to support the expansion of home health monitoring solutions

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across Scotland as part of an integrated care package. In the will

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help us deliver real results in telehealth and telecare over the

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next two years. We must not forget the emerging technologies we are

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developing with partners to support future healthcare models. I was

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delighted when thanks to a ?10 million investment from the Scottish

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Funding Council, the Digital Health Institute was launched last year.

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This innovative partnership between healthcare providers, industry and

:17:21.:17:24.

academia will create the next generation of technology. I've

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outlined how patients in Scotland are already seeing benefits from

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digital technology, but they rightly expect more. In a world where

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technology allows us to access information at the touch of a button

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we must also support people electronically to interact with

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their healthcare services. Today I can also confirm that I am setting

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the ambitious goal of creating a personalised electronic patient

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record for every patient in Scotland and every citizen in Scotland by

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2020 at the latest. This will allow people to digitally access and

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jointly manage the health and care information that's important to them

:18:08.:18:11.

and their wellbeing. Involving people and co-producing their rods

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ensures that complex clinical information is explained to the

:18:17.:18:20.

patient. This can bolster the relationship between patients and

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clinicians and promote patient and pourment. It will build upon a

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series of building blocks that we already have in place. Award-winning

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key information summary, Kes, is an excellent example of clinicians and

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patients working together. It is now supporting more than 76,000

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vulnerable people to live safe and secure lives. We need to develop an

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approach to handling information that keeps everyone in whiched,

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engaged and aware. I've asked for that keeps everyone in whiched,

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clear and effective risk-based that keeps everyone in whiched,

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models to be developed to ensure that

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models to be developed to ensure system. Some of our patients have

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direct access to online records and advice to support greater

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direct access to online records and interaction with their clinicians.

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Take the examples of my diabetes my way, supporting nearly 5,000 people

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with diabetes and renal patient view supporting over 4,000 people, which

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were developed by clinicians to support patients to live fully

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active lives in their own homes. In response to patient demands,

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technology systems within GP practices are starting to offer

:19:36.:19:40.

online trans transactional services such as online bookings, repeat

:19:41.:19:46.

prescriptions and test results. This service needs to be available to

:19:47.:19:49.

everybody in Scotland as soon as possible. We need individuals to

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participate in their own health and care, designing solutions that fit

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their needs. I've had highlighted how digital technology is delivering

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to patients. There season element which may not be visible to

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patients, but it is how technology will mean that the NHS in Scotland

:20:10.:20:14.

will be working smarter and more flexibly and cost effectively in the

:20:15.:20:18.

delivery of services. We have to recognise that new ways of working

:20:19.:20:21.

will be required and there needs to be a big shift in embedded cultures

:20:22.:20:26.

and practices. These are tricky challenges to address. But through

:20:27.:20:30.

strong leadership and the commitment of a workforce that's already valued

:20:31.:20:35.

service improvement, we intend to meet these challenges head on. We've

:20:36.:20:42.

already seen how technology advances supports effective service redesign.

:20:43.:20:47.

Take a telestroke service. This has led to a 151% increase the treatment

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rates for strokes, thrum whole owes is -- thrombosis.

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We need to support... That was Alex Neil, the Health Secretary speaking

:21:09.:21:12.

in Parliament. Charities have been telling MSPs the

:21:13.:21:15.

growing demand for food banks is linked to the UK Government's

:21:16.:21:18.

welfare reforms. Speaking to the Scottish Parliament's Welfare Reform

:21:19.:21:20.

Committee, the Trussell Trust described the sharp increase in

:21:21.:21:23.

those requiring help as "terrifying". The UK Government says

:21:24.:21:26.

that by offering free provisions, food banks themselves are helping to

:21:27.:21:32.

increase the demand for their use. I think if you consider the facta

:21:33.:21:40.

there was only 5,762 men women and children that utilised the Trussell

:21:41.:21:47.

Trust food bank in Scotland in 2011-2012 and 14,318 in 2012-13 it

:21:48.:21:54.

is terrifying that the number has risen to over 56,000. We are not

:21:55.:21:58.

even at the end of this financial year. We'll know what that actual

:21:59.:22:01.

number looks like by the end of this month. But that's an exponential

:22:02.:22:08.

rise in the demand for emergency food relief. I think there's a

:22:09.:22:11.

number of things that we can take from our statistics that link that

:22:12.:22:16.

to welfare reform. I think one of the things I would like to refer to

:22:17.:22:20.

before that is the Scottish Government report that was released

:22:21.:22:25.

in December. It indicated that providers who participated in the

:22:26.:22:33.

study were in agreementa welfare reform benefit -- recent

:22:34.:22:37.

study were in agreementa welfare driving the recent

:22:38.:22:41.

study were in agreementa welfare me is clear. I have

:22:42.:22:45.

study were in agreementa welfare lunch, an evening meal and cup of

:22:46.:22:50.

tea before go to bed. It is some power if I were to decide if someone

:22:51.:23:02.

eats or are they no gon na, e eat? I was brought up with parents that

:23:03.:23:07.

brought me up to believe that those that can should do for those that

:23:08.:23:15.

can't. Powers that be. It is time we woke up to reality. We don't need

:23:16.:23:23.

meetings to decide, is it benefit cuts, has it got anything to do with

:23:24.:23:28.

food banks. Let's be truthful about the situation. The situation is

:23:29.:23:33.

people are getting penalised for being poor. For no having the

:23:34.:23:41.

ability, through not having a job. Go a food bank.

:23:42.:23:45.

But the Scottish Conservatives have defended the UK Government's welfare

:23:46.:23:48.

reforms, saying they were necessary to tackle the current culture.

:23:49.:23:52.

Scotland's mistake of fostering dependency in many areas has not

:23:53.:23:56.

been good for the people who've been left dependent. As a result, a

:23:57.:24:00.

programme of welfare reform is essential. Moray Macdonald is still

:24:01.:24:10.

with me here in the studio. First of all we are hearing from the Welfare

:24:11.:24:16.

Reform Committee, the welfare reform is proving extremely controversial

:24:17.:24:21.

for the UK Government, the so-called bedroom traffic, the food bank issue

:24:22.:24:25.

and its playing a role in the independence debate as well. Welfare

:24:26.:24:29.

reform is always going to be controversial, no matter which party

:24:30.:24:32.

is in power. One of the interesting things if you look at opinion polls

:24:33.:24:37.

in the UK, but particularly in England, there is broad public

:24:38.:24:40.

support for the changes that Iain Duncan Smith and George Osborne are

:24:41.:24:43.

pushing through. The issue with the food banks is very interesting.

:24:44.:24:48.

There is a real issue here in terms of supply and demand. I think more

:24:49.:24:52.

and more food banks are being supplied by charities, churches and

:24:53.:24:56.

other sources. I think of course numbers are going to rise. If people

:24:57.:25:01.

are being offered free parcels of food, more and more people will want

:25:02.:25:05.

to use them. It is a controversial issue, because it is being used by

:25:06.:25:10.

some perhaps to show that people are living in poverty, but food banks

:25:11.:25:18.

weren't as popular as they were ten years ago. It was hard to find them

:25:19.:25:23.

ten years ago. Their availability increases demand. I think it does

:25:24.:25:28.

increase demand. Yes there are more of them than there were ten years

:25:29.:25:34.

ago. It is a relatively new concept, I think it is good that there are

:25:35.:25:39.

charities who are willing to step in for those needing them. People

:25:40.:25:42.

shouldn't be in that situation but some are. The availability of them

:25:43.:25:46.

is causing issues. If you link this to the referendum debate, where it

:25:47.:25:49.

is interesting is picking up on the comments of the IFS yesterday, where

:25:50.:25:56.

they said yes, the finances under independence could be OK, could be

:25:57.:26:01.

quite good, but it would require John Swinney or whoever is

:26:02.:26:04.

Chancellor after independence to stick to similar fiscal rules that

:26:05.:26:08.

George Osborne has. That will mean we'll have to have similar types of

:26:09.:26:13.

welfare levels that we do have. In some ways that's esoteric isn't it?

:26:14.:26:19.

Stories of people having to walk 12 miles to get to a food bank. It

:26:20.:26:27.

sounds positively voirn. -- Victorian. It does. The Government

:26:28.:26:31.

should ensure that those most in need are able to get it. But the

:26:32.:26:36.

clear point from a referendum angle is being independence won't solve

:26:37.:26:40.

this programme. We'll still have people requiring welfare after

:26:41.:26:44.

independence and people who are very poor. Point the IFS makes is

:26:45.:26:49.

there'll still have to be strict financial controls. Controversy

:26:50.:26:54.

about welfare reforms and about another keynote to Conservative

:26:55.:26:59.

issue, immigration. Stories that the UK Government is withholding a

:27:00.:27:03.

report about immigration which shows that immigration has had no impact

:27:04.:27:09.

on the jobs situation of the UK citizens, which is not something

:27:10.:27:13.

that the Conservatives want to hear is it? No, it is not. The

:27:14.:27:17.

Conservatives made a major pledge as part of their manifesto that they

:27:18.:27:22.

would drastically cut the amount of immigration coming into the UK. That

:27:23.:27:25.

was about trying to protect, as they put it, British jobs. The line,

:27:26.:27:31.

"British jobs for British people.". They will be embarrassed by this

:27:32.:27:36.

report. I suspect we'll see it published soon, but the key thing in

:27:37.:27:41.

this report is talking about non-EU immigration. There is an issue I

:27:42.:27:45.

think in terms of if you look at opinion polls, some people,

:27:46.:27:49.

particularly the south of England, do have concerns about immigration.

:27:50.:27:54.

But that's primarily EU immigration, which this report doesn't look at.

:27:55.:28:01.

Nigel Farage was saying the report referred to non-EU immigration. He

:28:02.:28:06.

wants it to look at EU immigration, because he thinks EU immigrants are

:28:07.:28:11.

taking British people's jobs. This is a con stat refrain of his. There

:28:12.:28:16.

is a European election coming up. Clearly he believe this is the

:28:17.:28:20.

fertile ground for him. There is no doubt that in some parts of the

:28:21.:28:24.

country this is fertile ground. There is a feeling, we've seen

:28:25.:28:29.

Romania now has free access to the UK. There is a feeling among some

:28:30.:28:33.

sectors, particularly those likely to vote UKIP, that there is an issue

:28:34.:28:37.

here that needs to be dealt with. Thank you.

:28:38.:28:45.

Let's head back to Holyrood. The Government Government emphasising

:28:46.:28:48.

the use of technology to allow people to live longer and healthier

:28:49.:28:54.

lives in their own homes. We are hearing from Labour now. 2013 showed

:28:55.:29:01.

a patchy response except in the field of implementing video

:29:02.:29:07.

conferencing. I very much welcome the launch in September and October

:29:08.:29:13.

last year of the digitalta Health Institute. Its aim is to establish

:29:14.:29:19.

120 innovative collaborations and release 140 products and services. I

:29:20.:29:26.

wish it well. Empowering patients is essential for self management. This

:29:27.:29:31.

does mean access to things like the key information summary across

:29:32.:29:35.

Scotland. I want to add my congratulations to Dr Libby Morris

:29:36.:29:40.

and her team for their success and winners as the major excellence in

:29:41.:29:46.

healthcare IT awards category in 2013. KISS

:29:47.:29:49.

healthcare IT awards category in records system in Scotland are

:29:50.:30:00.

healthcare IT awards category in indeed a success story. I want to

:30:01.:30:05.

turn to IT. This is an area which promises much, but in Scotland it is

:30:06.:30:12.

fragmented. We have avoided the massive implosion system that was so

:30:13.:30:17.

expensive in England, but we have had problems. The Cabinet secretary

:30:18.:30:25.

did not mention the failure of one project at a course of ?56 million.

:30:26.:30:32.

There is the needle exchange system, developed at the cost of a

:30:33.:30:37.

quarter of ?1 million, which was only used by one area in Scotland. I

:30:38.:30:43.

have an area of personal interest as a previous clinician in our failure

:30:44.:30:48.

to develop a system for drugs and alcohol which I called for in 2003.

:30:49.:31:00.

Now we have a system, but that is ten years later and it is a national

:31:01.:31:05.

system. Glasgow has tried to develop a system and I hope it will be built

:31:06.:31:15.

on. We have undertaken a series of projects in the past six months and

:31:16.:31:20.

this has demonstrated a number of disturbing features. There is only

:31:21.:31:24.

one health board in Scotland which met the standard for IT. Another

:31:25.:31:37.

area has shown not one, but 252 interruptions in IT services over

:31:38.:31:41.

three years. It has shown three health boards, who could not even

:31:42.:31:48.

tell us whether there had been entered up -- interruptions. This is

:31:49.:31:53.

not satisfactory. The recent collapse of the Glasgow IT system

:31:54.:31:57.

with its potential for damaging clinical consequences produced a

:31:58.:32:02.

first report which could not find a cause and that was worrying, but it

:32:03.:32:07.

went on to recommend quite expensive measures and how can that be done,

:32:08.:32:11.

if you do not know what the cause of the original failure was? This is an

:32:12.:32:19.

area crying out for a formal inspection of the resilience of our

:32:20.:32:24.

IT systems across all health boards in Scotland. Devolving most of the

:32:25.:32:29.

IT budgets to 14 different health boards, in my view, following the

:32:30.:32:36.

report by the Nao Chief Executive of Glasgow health board, was an

:32:37.:32:40.

aggregation of the central leadership necessary. It allows the

:32:41.:32:48.

growth of fragmented IT systems. For example, this is from my recent

:32:49.:32:51.

experience, Tayside consultants cannot access lab results for

:32:52.:32:57.

patients in Fife. They see quite a number. The clinical Portal system

:32:58.:33:13.

is only just in place after five years and is not accessible across

:33:14.:33:17.

managed care networks and is only accessible in a cumbersome way in

:33:18.:33:21.

which clinicians have to enter a different systems and they say it is

:33:22.:33:26.

cumbersome. Our only major success which I would not criticise has been

:33:27.:33:31.

cumbersome. Our only major success the radiology system which is

:33:32.:33:34.

world-class. I think younger health professionals

:33:35.:33:37.

world-class. I think younger health I am, by our failure to adopt

:33:38.:33:43.

digital solutions. They use iPads extensively, but they are back to

:33:44.:33:49.

pencil and paper on hospital wards. I saw vast paper records in the

:33:50.:33:57.

wards. There is a lack of a prospective system of ensuring

:33:58.:34:00.

patient confidentiality in IT systems. This is in breach of the EU

:34:01.:34:10.

legal case and is worrying. We had an mother FOIA, which looked at the

:34:11.:34:13.

access to electronic data and this showed that Lothian was reporting

:34:14.:34:25.

700 and 94 breaches in two years, but at least they have a system and

:34:26.:34:28.

they are showing a reduction. The other boards do not have systems or

:34:29.:34:36.

are reporting unbelievable results, Glasgow ten breaches, five reported

:34:37.:34:42.

a rising trend, Dumfries and Galloway has recorded 23 in six

:34:43.:34:49.

months, but I have no confidence in the other boards protecting patient

:34:50.:34:54.

data. The last Secretary made a promise that patients by 2015 would

:34:55.:34:59.

have access to a betrayal of all those who were looking at their

:35:00.:35:04.

clinical data and I wonder if the Secretary would update us on that

:35:05.:35:11.

promise. This is an area the government must get a grip on. Now

:35:12.:35:19.

to Prime Minister's Questions and David Cameron said "no options"

:35:20.:35:22.

should be ruled out in efforts to exert pressure on Russia over its

:35:23.:35:25.

incursion into Ukraine. The Labour leader Ed Miliband said economic

:35:26.:35:27.

sanctions should still be considered. Mr Cameron told MPs

:35:28.:35:30.

there would be no Royal representation at the Sochi

:35:31.:35:33.

Paralympic Games and warned the forthcoming G8 meeting might not go

:35:34.:35:39.

ahead. The whole house and the whole country has been watching events in

:35:40.:35:43.

Ukraine with concern, does the Prime Minister agree that Russia's

:35:44.:35:50.

actions, violating the sovereignty of Ukraine, are completely without

:35:51.:35:55.

justification? Does he further agree that these actions deserve to be

:35:56.:35:58.

condemned across the international community? I agree with him that

:35:59.:36:06.

what Russia has done is completely unacceptable. We should be clear

:36:07.:36:11.

about our national interest and our aim in this, our national interest

:36:12.:36:15.

is that we have a strong interest in the rule of law being upheld, were

:36:16.:36:22.

territorial integrity is protected and we should be clear that our aim

:36:23.:36:28.

is to deter further Russian military action and to de-escalate the

:36:29.:36:33.

situation. The action by the Russian government should be condemned. When

:36:34.:36:39.

he was leader of the opposition in 2008, he said that Russia's elite

:36:40.:36:46.

value their ties to Europe, Russian armies cannot march into other

:36:47.:36:50.

countries while Russian shoppers march into Selfridges, if we do not

:36:51.:36:53.

see the required action from Russia, we could look at asset freezes and

:36:54.:37:00.

travel restrictions, so that Russia is clear about the consequences of

:37:01.:37:06.

its actions? When we look at the diplomatic and political steps we

:37:07.:37:09.

can take, nothing should be off the table. We have taken steps in terms

:37:10.:37:15.

of the Ukrainian corrupt oligarchs and making sure that their assets

:37:16.:37:19.

are properly dealt with including here in the UK, so we should not

:37:20.:37:24.

rule out other things, but as I have tried to explain, there are steps we

:37:25.:37:29.

need to take in respect of the current unacceptable situation and

:37:30.:37:33.

then agree with our European partners and American partners and I

:37:34.:37:36.

will be speaking to President Obama this afternoon and meeting with

:37:37.:37:46.

Angela Merkel and Francois Hollande before the European Council and

:37:47.:37:48.

agree what steps should be taken. Two: Side with the launch on youth

:37:49.:37:52.

unemployment, figures have been published in the library which show

:37:53.:37:56.

us that despite the figures the Prime Minister has quoted that the

:37:57.:38:01.

dole queue for under 25 is reaches from London to Edinburgh, can he

:38:02.:38:06.

tell us, does he think that that reflect success in his policy and

:38:07.:38:12.

will he meet us to discuss long-term solutions about this? Of course

:38:13.:38:17.

there are still too many people unemployed, but the fact is there

:38:18.:38:22.

are 1.6 million new private-sector jobs, 1.3 million more people in

:38:23.:38:28.

work, big cuts in unemployment, big reductions in the claimant count and

:38:29.:38:33.

almost half a million fewer people reliant on out of work benefits.

:38:34.:38:38.

That is what we want to do and we have not forgotten the record of the

:38:39.:38:44.

Labour Party. Female unemployment rose by 24% and youth unemployment

:38:45.:38:49.

went up by 45%. Instead of giving lectures, they should make an

:38:50.:38:55.

apology. It is good use he has resuscitated plans for a recall bill

:38:56.:38:59.

but can he confirmed that he intends to push ahead with a genuine system

:39:00.:39:05.

of recall and not fall back on the widely discredited Bill? It will be

:39:06.:39:16.

difficult to satisfy him. We should proceed, taking the draft clauses,

:39:17.:39:20.

taking them as a starting point for what I think would be an excellent

:39:21.:39:25.

reform, a reform we committed to in our manifesto, -- manifesto. If

:39:26.:39:32.

members of Parliament are seriously in breach of standards and judged to

:39:33.:39:36.

be so, they should not have to wait for a General Election to receive

:39:37.:39:40.

the verdict of their constituents. Let's stay at Westminster now and

:39:41.:39:43.

speak to our correspondent David Porter, he's standing by as usual on

:39:44.:39:47.

College Green for us this afternoon. David... A different feel to

:39:48.:39:55.

Question Time today, because the leader of the Labour Party decided

:39:56.:39:59.

he would use all his questions to talk about the crisis in Ukraine?

:40:00.:40:05.

Prime Minister's Questions. That is what we will be talking about. I am

:40:06.:40:15.

joined by three Scottish MPs. Let me start with you. A different feeling

:40:16.:40:25.

in the Commons, not the political row that everyone realise, Ukraine

:40:26.:40:29.

is hugely important issue, but perhaps one that the UK is not a

:40:30.:40:35.

leading player in? Mines were focused somewhere else today and

:40:36.:40:40.

rightly so. The crucial thing that happens is a de-escalation and it is

:40:41.:40:47.

welcome that Europe is getting involved and sending observers.

:40:48.:40:53.

David Cameron is meeting at the EU tomorrow and we wish him well and we

:40:54.:41:00.

hope the emphasis will be on the escalating the issues and we find a

:41:01.:41:08.

peaceful resolution. There are a lot of meetings going on, there are

:41:09.:41:21.

meetings in Paris, the European Commission heads are meeting

:41:22.:41:28.

tomorrow, but at the end of the day, do we have much way to ask the

:41:29.:41:34.

Kremlin to stop? As the European Union we do. Ukraine is a European

:41:35.:41:40.

country, not many Russians live there. It is not helpful if Ukraine

:41:41.:41:45.

becomes involved in a tug of war between Russia and the EU. Ukraine

:41:46.:41:52.

needs to face both ways. We cannot tolerate Russia using force to

:41:53.:41:56.

impose its will on Ukraine and not allowing Ukraine to play a game

:41:57.:42:03.

where it acknowledges its Russian connections. The Kremlin does not

:42:04.:42:07.

want this and they have to understand if they play hardball,

:42:08.:42:11.

there will be consequences. They have offended every neighbour they

:42:12.:42:17.

have got at some time or another. Ukraine have found that. If Russia

:42:18.:42:22.

thinks they can keep pushing, ultimately Russia will find

:42:23.:42:26.

themselves isolated. We can give and take, but they have to as well. In

:42:27.:42:33.

any negotiations, there has to be give and take, but if Moscow says

:42:34.:42:38.

they will take it, at the end of the day, does the western community have

:42:39.:42:44.

to say, we are not going to give any more, we will impose sanctions? The

:42:45.:42:50.

Prime Minister made it clear that everything is on the table and that

:42:51.:42:54.

would include sanctions, he made that clear. He was pushed on that

:42:55.:43:00.

and he made it clear. Russia has to understand, they have a legitimate

:43:01.:43:07.

right to be in Crimea, but beyond that, that creates a real

:43:08.:43:13.

difficulty. We need people around the table, we need Ukrainian

:43:14.:43:17.

ministers, Russian ministers to get there and hopefully what we will see

:43:18.:43:21.

over the next few days, the discussions that the UK will be

:43:22.:43:25.

involved with, with its partners is to ensure that we get people round

:43:26.:43:30.

the table to discuss where we are going with this and to try and

:43:31.:43:35.

de-escalate the heat in the situation. Vladimir Putin was

:43:36.:43:41.

swaggering yesterday because he is playing politics, but if he takes a

:43:42.:43:45.

long-term interest in Russia, there are economy is not strong, they

:43:46.:43:51.

depend on their ability to trade. Our city is full of Russian money

:43:52.:43:58.

and citizens. It will have an impact on the economy. Vladimir Putin has

:43:59.:44:01.

to decide if he wants to play tough at the expense of his own economy.

:44:02.:44:07.

Russia does not have a good reputation, it is corrupt, a

:44:08.:44:08.

difficult place reputation, it is corrupt, a

:44:09.:44:12.

we have to reduce our dependence on that country if it will not be part

:44:13.:44:21.

of the Family Of Nations. Crimea has a majority of Russians, has Vladimir

:44:22.:44:29.

Putin not got a point, if he wants to protect Russians? I do not think

:44:30.:44:37.

there was a sign of danger. He has been using a lot of excuses. I was

:44:38.:44:42.

in Latvia when a Russian soldier went over the border. This behaviour

:44:43.:44:48.

towards their neighbours is unacceptable. The independence of

:44:49.:44:53.

Ukraine should be respected. This is a matter for the Ukrainians. This is

:44:54.:45:01.

a front and a smoke ring -- smoke screen for swaggering behaviour from

:45:02.:45:05.

Vladimir Putin who seems to be enjoying what is a dangerous

:45:06.:45:11.

situation. We have to keep our focus on de-escalate in this situation. We

:45:12.:45:17.

have seen bravery from Ukrainian soldiers. We have to applaud that.

:45:18.:45:23.

We have to be grateful it has not escalated. We need to encourage

:45:24.:45:28.

others to take the heat out of this and that is the way forward.

:45:29.:45:34.

Vladimir Putin does have form on this, if you think back to south

:45:35.:45:40.

Georgia, he is quick not to mount a full-scale invasion but just to put

:45:41.:45:44.

enough troops in there to think this is serious and then perhaps people

:45:45.:45:50.

negotiate on his terms. Georgia is a divided country, and a very unhappy

:45:51.:45:54.

one. I don't think it would be satisfactory if he does the same for

:45:55.:45:59.

Ukraine. When do we push back? Crimea doesn't have a Russian

:46:00.:46:03.

majority. But that doesn't give him to right to occupy it. Is he saying

:46:04.:46:10.

anywhere there are Russian speakers he has a right to put soldiers in?

:46:11.:46:18.

That's not right. I would argue there are targeted economic

:46:19.:46:22.

sanctions that will hurt Russia and they need to understand this will

:46:23.:46:25.

affect their long-term economic success. If they try to get away

:46:26.:46:30.

with it on that basis they will lose. In a European context here,

:46:31.:46:35.

the key player is going to be Germany and what Chancellor Merkel

:46:36.:46:39.

does. There seems to be a feeling that for economic reasons she

:46:40.:46:43.

doesn't want to go as heavy as she could do. This is all about vested

:46:44.:46:49.

interests. She has real vested interests there, but I think the

:46:50.:46:52.

pressure from the other EU member states and the UK at the forefront

:46:53.:46:57.

of that need to make Chancellor Merkel aware of the fact that this

:46:58.:47:01.

is a David Cameron rows situation. Mr Putin likes to flex his muscles.

:47:02.:47:06.

As Malcolm has said, the situation in Georgia is still there to a

:47:07.:47:10.

certain extent I'm not convinced that the Russianness wants to see

:47:11.:47:15.

the conflict, they want to flex their muscles, to be the big boy in

:47:16.:47:19.

the playground. Reality of it is that we have strength as EU member

:47:20.:47:23.

states to say to Russia, get round the table. This is where you are

:47:24.:47:28.

required to be along with the UK. It is right that the Germans are indeed

:47:29.:47:34.

pivotal. It should be remembered that Mr Putin's first foreign

:47:35.:47:39.

language is German. He spent a lot of time in Leipzig. Gerhard

:47:40.:47:46.

Schroeder is head of Gazprom. He has good connections. Let's hope they

:47:47.:47:48.

can use those connections good connections. Let's hope they

:47:49.:47:52.

de-escalate to that we have good connections. Let's hope they

:47:53.:47:54.

world. A slightly good connections. Let's hope they

:47:55.:47:56.

our discussion today good connections. Let's hope they

:47:57.:48:00.

focusing on a foreign issue, but one that I think most people will regard

:48:01.:48:07.

as not just very important but perhaps critically important. Indeed

:48:08.:48:12.

David. Let's turn our attention to one final point. Labour are raising

:48:13.:48:15.

questions about when David Cameron was told that a senior Downing

:48:16.:48:21.

Street adviser, Patrick Rock, was facing allegations of accessing

:48:22.:48:26.

images of child abuse. Yes this, concerns deputy head of the policy

:48:27.:48:30.

unit at Downing Street who retired from his job last month, I think on

:48:31.:48:35.

13th February. The day afterwards in fact he was arrested by the

:48:36.:48:38.

Metropolitan Police, who were looking at part of an investigation

:48:39.:48:43.

into allegations of images of child abuse. There is have been questions

:48:44.:48:49.

raise raised: Why the arrest took such a long time for Downing Street

:48:50.:48:54.

to reveal details of that. They only did that after a newspaper revealed

:48:55.:49:00.

the story. And secondly, why did it take so long for it to appear in the

:49:01.:49:05.

public domain? Downing Street has perhaps not been more forthcoming.

:49:06.:49:09.

Downing Street says with an issue as sensitive as sh, where an arrest has

:49:10.:49:13.

been made, I must emphasis that no charges have been made at the

:49:14.:49:19.

moment, they can't give a rung commentary. But there are plenty of

:49:20.:49:23.

questions being asked here at Westminster this afternoon. David,

:49:24.:49:31.

A final word with our commentate tore for the afternoon, Moray

:49:32.:49:36.

Macdonald. Let's turn our attention to something we were discussing is

:49:37.:49:38.

at the beginning of the programme, this supposed ban that Aberdeen City

:49:39.:49:43.

Council was going to have on Scottish Government Ministers. It is

:49:44.:49:47.

not going through. Willie Young, the convenor of the Finance Committee

:49:48.:49:50.

was saying it was a slip of the tongue. Aberdeen City Council has

:49:51.:49:54.

been left perhaps with egg on its face this afternoon. It is a bit

:49:55.:49:59.

embarrassing for Aberdeen council as a whole, not just Willie Young and

:50:00.:50:03.

the Labour Party there. It is rather strange for him to have said this

:50:04.:50:07.

was a slip of the tongue. It clearly wasn't. This was a draft motion to

:50:08.:50:11.

go down. The SNP have tried to put down a confidence motion but it was

:50:12.:50:16.

ruled out by the council because it wasn't tabled in time. I find these

:50:17.:50:19.

situations frustrating, because I don't think it wins anyone any

:50:20.:50:24.

votes. A lot of councillors and MSPs enjoy the hustle and bustle of

:50:25.:50:30.

argumentative-style politics and chucking sackisations, but they are

:50:31.:50:33.

not things that matter to you and me, to anyone that's going to be

:50:34.:50:38.

voting. And they don't achieve anything. It is this activity which

:50:39.:50:41.

switches people off politics, because it makes no sense to

:50:42.:50:49.

anybody. Labour's Iain Gray wasn't impress impressed about it. He was

:50:50.:50:52.

talking about silliness on both sides. The Conservatives were

:50:53.:50:56.

initially close to that position but they pulled back. I think the point

:50:57.:51:03.

that Iain Gray made was spot on. He said there's nonsense being talked

:51:04.:51:06.

about on both sides here and it is a ridiculous affair and people should

:51:07.:51:12.

move on. This is from I think the by-election campaign just after

:51:13.:51:16.

summer last year, when Alex Salmond went into a school. And now they are

:51:17.:51:18.

talking about banning went into a school. And now they are

:51:19.:51:21.

Minister and Scottish Government Ministers from schools

:51:22.:51:25.

Minister and Scottish Government government, local authority property

:51:26.:51:25.

throughout Aberdeen. The other thing that's ridiculous is

:51:26.:51:32.

a council picking this type of petty argument with the Government. They

:51:33.:51:35.

have to have good relationships both ways with the Government and with

:51:36.:51:38.

local authority. This kind of activity isn't going to help anyone.

:51:39.:51:41.

I can't imagine Alex Salmond will want to be particularly helpful to

:51:42.:51:46.

Willie Young if he pops up and asks for cash for some emergency project.

:51:47.:51:54.

It was confirmed today that Nigel Farage would debate with Nick Clegg,

:51:55.:51:59.

the Lib Dem leader, on 2ened April. A big European debate. This will be

:52:00.:52:04.

pretty interesting won't it? I think it will be a fascinating debate. One

:52:05.:52:07.

of the things I find interesting about it is that it is a debate

:52:08.:52:11.

between just two parties - UKIP and Lib Dems. From a Scottish

:52:12.:52:15.

perspective the two parties are fifth and sixth in current polling,

:52:16.:52:20.

so you have to wonder in Scottish perspective the relevance of it.

:52:21.:52:26.

They are trying to go on from a pro-Europe and an anti-Europe vote.

:52:27.:52:29.

I think the Lib Dems have probably done a good thing here. This raises

:52:30.:52:34.

people's awareness that they are the pro-European party. Although that

:52:35.:52:38.

might not be a majority of people in the country who support that idea it

:52:39.:52:42.

might demonstrate to people who are pro-European that Lib Dems are the

:52:43.:52:45.

people to go to the they can get the language right on this one. I find

:52:46.:52:49.

it a bit rich of the Lib Dems as well, because Nick Clegg is a man

:52:50.:52:53.

inside the cabinet who is making sure that during his Parliament

:52:54.:52:58.

there isn't a referendum on in or out of Europe but he's happy to have

:52:59.:53:03.

that debate in Parliament. Labour isn't taking part just yet. This

:53:04.:53:08.

signals onward march of UKIP in England at least. Yes. If you look

:53:09.:53:14.

at the opinion polls it looks like it will be difficult for UKIP to

:53:15.:53:17.

gain a seat in Scotland, so you have to question the relevance of this

:53:18.:53:22.

for us. If you want to link it back to Scotland, it will be fascinating

:53:23.:53:29.

to see how the SNP react if as we think will happen UKIP gain a lot of

:53:30.:53:35.

seats in England, they will say for the rest of this country it is

:53:36.:53:38.

different for us. Moray Macdonald, thank you. We'll see you again soon.

:53:39.:53:43.

That's all we have time for this afternoon. We're back at the same

:53:44.:53:47.

time next week, 2.30pm here on BBC Two. Thanks for your company this

:53:48.:53:49.

afternoon. Bye for now.

:53:50.:53:54.

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