05/12/2013 Politics Scotland


05/12/2013

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A warm welcome to the Scottish Parliament. The number one political

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event today was the Chancellor 's Autumn Statement in the Commons.

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There is major-league politics and away she and the shape of questions

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to the First Minister. It is the main substance of today's programme.

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Let's go over to the chamber to find out what is happening.

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The First Minister has just two debs and we can cross straight over to

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the chamber. As members will no we have had gusts

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of over 100 mph in Scotland. The transport minister is in the

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transport Scotland control room and will be there until the emergency

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passes. I can confirm to the chamber there has been one reported

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fatality, weather-related in Scotland and they have in injuries.

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None of them yet reported a serious. There's then disruption to road rail

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and ferry infrastructure. Utility companies have reported many

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customers are off-line but re-connections have been made and

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they will be considering throughout the day. In light of the tragedy in

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The Clutha we have had good reason to play -- paid tribute to our

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emergency services. That work is on again today as we respond to the

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ongoing emergency of the weather conditions. Can I thank the First

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Minister for that update. Our thoughts are with those families who

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have now in affected by this bad weather. Also with all those brave

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people in the emergency services and other agencies who are working to

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get Scotland safe again so people can move about. The First Minister

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put at the heart of his White Paper for independence, childcare. Can he

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tell me what the final stage of his plans would cost, how many jobs

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would be created and what the average salary of those jobs would

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be if a separate Scotland was going to re-coop the cost of the policy.

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Forgive me, I thought the policy was a serious one. What the average

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salary of those jobs would be... Perhaps we can get the answer to the

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question. How many jobs will be created, what those average salaries

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would be if a separate Scotland is going to be cut the cost of the

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policy as the White Paper says it would in income tax. The policy in

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terms of the first term of office of an independent Scottish parliament

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with cost ?700 million a year. In terms of additional jobs in

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childcare, it'd require a doubling of the childcare workforce and that

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is an increase of 30,000 jobs. One of the great economic benefits is

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releasing the availability of more women to move back into the

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workforce, that estimate is just sort of 100,000, assuming we could

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raise the dissipation raise to the same level as Sweden. The Swedish

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example is taken from a number of reasons. There is a lot of

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credibility in it end that it is identical. There is no reason why

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there should be a 6% differential in women participation in the workforce

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except for the fact Sweden has such extraordinary supportive childcare

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arrangements that provide the opportunity for more equality in the

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workforce while allowing women not just to care properly for the

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children but to fully participate in the workforce and society. Whatever

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that was, it was not an answer to the question I asked. Perhaps the

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First Minister would like to reflect on the fact modern women are not too

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impressed by men who promise the earth without any evidence that they

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are serious about it. That evidence, he is not serious about it. Let me

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try and help him. The Scottish Parliament information Centre

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estimates the cost of the policy to be at least ?1.2 billion a year.

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That is without the cost of Lee buildings and facilities to meet

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increased demand. The First Minister has promised the White Paper would

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answer all the questions about independence, he must have worked

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out how many jobs, as what average salary would need to be created for

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the policy to pay for itself. Unfortunately, in 670 pages there

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was enough room to explain what time zone we would be in but not these

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details. Could the First Minister now give Scottish families, men and

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women, the details they deserve to now. I pointed out 30,000 extra jobs

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would be needed and that it would release 100,000 people, mainly

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women, back into the workforce and available to work. At the end of the

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first parliament around 50% of two-year-old and all three and 4

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euros will be allowed to childcare a year. That'll be one of the great

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benefits of having the freedom of independence, that would an interest

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meant of about ?6 million a year in addition to the ?100 million in the

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first year to make the improvements that are specified. That isn't

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argued transformational change in childcare provision in Scotland.

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What we pointed out is that if you look at the benefits in terms of

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increased taxation revenue from releasing that additional workforce

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into the community of Scotland, and the range of benefits in terms of

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employers national Insurance, employees National Insurance, income

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tax and VAT see, these revenues will flow into the Scottish exchequer in

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an independent Scotland. Enter the devolution position we have now and

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the one proposed by JoAnn allotment, they will go into the pocket of

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George Osborne. When it comes to increasing Scottish expenditure, we

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don't want to look for the Conservative chancellor in London

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who looks forward to years of austerity. That is why the

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differences opening up a showing that transformational policy in

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childcare can't be afforded, can be pursued in independent Scotland,

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just as it is pursued in independent Sweden. First of all, the First

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Minister re-read the answer to the question I did not ask him. He has

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not explained how he would cost the bit beyond the first term. He

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ignored that. He says it is transformational that does not give

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us the figures. You need to know the figures from it'd be more than same

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poll assertion. I have done some estimates of my own. Let's give the

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First Minister... Order. Let's give the First Minister the maximum

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benefit of the doubt. There are currently 90,000 women unemployed.

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Let's imagine they all get jobs cars of this policy, even the ones

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without children. To give the First Minister the biggest tax base to

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draw from let's say all the 35,000 jobs don't go to any of those women

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that all go to unemployed men. That is 125,000 people off the dole

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saving at the most ?370 million in job-seeker's allowance. These people

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need to pay a tented and ?30 million in income tax for the policy to pay

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for itself as... Order, order. I am only quoting but the White Paper

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says which are supposed to be the Bible. It is the White Paper that

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says it will. He will rest on the figures in the White Paper. Doesn't

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that mean on average every single one of them would have earned more

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than ?42,000 a year, almost twice the average wage for an independent

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Scotland today coop the money? The calculation on addition income to

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government is the calculation on the increase in output that is generated

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by that increase in the labour force. That increase in output goes

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across the economy, it benefits lots of people. If you have more people

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in employment spending more it doesn't just mean more tax, the

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people who benefits from the economic expansion also contribute

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more tax. The calculation, this is why it should be recognised by the

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Labour Party because they have deployed this argument time after

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time in time -- in terms of the debate. It is the benefits of an

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economic expansion as opposed to the austerity policies we have been

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suffering from Westminster over recent years. I am surprised Johann

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Lamont doesn't embrace this expansion. She came to see me months

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ago and couldn't explain how she would pay for any increase in child

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provision in Scotland and not a single positive idea of amendment in

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the budget to tell us what Labour's plans would be to make any change in

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the provision of childcare. She seems to suggest it would be

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difficult to get that expansion of numbers of women back into the

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workforce of Scotland. Incidentally, thanks to the benefit of the

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initiative in this matter, female participation of workers in

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employment has increased by 3% over the last year or two in Scotland. I

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don't think it is overambitious to suggest that with a transformational

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offer in childcare that a six descent increase could be achieved.

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That talent and ability which is locked away at the present moment

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could be used for the benefit of these families and for the wider

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Scottish economy. Can I say how delighted I am to get this debate

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onto the benefits of independence. Let's talk about jobs, let's talk

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about families and let's talk about the transformation in childcare. Now

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we have the truth of it. This isn't about men and women struggling with

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childcare, it is getting onto the benefits of independence. How

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disgraceful! It is an opportunity to argue for independence rather than

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addressing the needs of families in Scotland. He says it's benefits lots

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and lots of people, I hate to tell you that is not good enough. His

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White Paper is predicated not on output but the money recouped

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through income tax and he hasn't been able to show us the figures.

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East he is telling as his White Paper isn't telling us the truth it

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will be of no surprise to the people behind him. If the First Minister

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doesn't like my figures and his own figures don't seem to exist, let me

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give him some he has provided. According to Scottish government

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figures if 105,000 women joined the workforce, more than the number

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currently unemployed, the tax revenues would be less than half of

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the most optimistic estimates of this cost. Last week the First

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Minister was googling his answers. But even that can't make his figures

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work. In order not to wait in order that we don't have to wait our

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freedom of information request to get the fact on which this was work

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downtown, will the First Minister now publish full costings of his

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flagship policy or admit it is a shameless attempt to con the people

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of Scotland and we have all seen through it. Order. We still don't

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know if Labour are for or against the change in childcare in Scotland.

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They haven't laid out their policies, they have not said how

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they will pay for it. We know the cuts commission is looking at

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cutting food transport, free personal care, reintroducing tuition

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fees but I don't think these options are going to the palatable to the

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people of Scotland. I would be delighted to put down the

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calculation is... Order. That increase in Scottish revenues will

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accord is now but what happens is these revenues go on the vast vast

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majority of them, go to the Westminster Exchequer at the present

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moment. Is it likely, just imagine for a second, Labour decided to cut

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everything else and go for a transformation in childcare and

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these additional revenues, do you think George Osborne would say that

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is fantastic, I will return these additional revenues to Scotland? I

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will help Scotland? I think their policy in childcare should be

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supported. That is not the fate that any of the no parties have for

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Scotland in the event of a no vote. We know what it is. It is a 4000

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million pounds cut from the existing position in Scottish public finance.

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We know also that is supported by an all-party, not just the Tories, but

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the Labour Party as well. Not only do we have the prospect of a

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transformation in childcare and that it will... Don't we just have a

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policy in increasing economic output, we all know what the

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alternative is which is no improvement in childcare and the

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slashing of the Scottish budget following a no vote. To ask the

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First Minister will he warned it -- when he will next meet the Secretary

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of State. I will protect them from the debating skills of the typically

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First Minister! We ask nurses to work long hours and physically and

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emotionally demanding jobs and they do it with fresheners and care, but

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we also need to care for them. It is out of six the Royal College of

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nurses reported that one in five nurses had suffered bullying in the

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previous year. At the time the RCN said such treatment was unacceptable

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and added that we can not expect nurses to put up with this at work.

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The RCN report out today shows that the number of nurses bullied over

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the last 12 months has risen from one in five to one in three. Can I

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ask what steps the Scottish Government are taking to help tackle

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this problem? Let's make clear that the Scottish Government has a zero

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tolerance approach to bleeding in the workforce. There were a number

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of aspects of that server that would cause, secretary has already

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written, in particular the suggestion that people in some cases

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were not being properly numerate it for what they were doing, -- not

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properly remunerated. You will find that the Scottish Government and our

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partners are hugely responsive to any indications that bullying or

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indeed other unacceptable practices may be taking place in our public

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services in Scotland. I welcome the words and sentiment, but the fact

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remained that nurses themselves say that the problems are getting worse,

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not better. That one in three of the lead. But is the equivalent of

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nearly 20,000 nurses who face abuse. We appear to have a system and a

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culture where bullying against nursing staff is widespread and a

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systemic practice in our stores and health centres. It's clear we're not

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rooting out the Belize, -- the Belize, and we are not properly

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supporting those staff who have an already difficult job made harder by

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the abusive experience. Our nurses have consistently been failed and we

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have to act now to make it better. Bullying in any form is

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unacceptable. I want to do something about it. I know the First Minister

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will too, so will he meet with me and the other party leaders and

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nursing repentance tips to draw an action plan? -- nursing

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representatives. As I said to her, we are sensitive and responsive to

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any indications that management practices are what they -- not what

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they should be. Two things I would say to Ruth Davidson. She should

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look at how the nursing workforce planning tools, in terms of the

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future direction of the workforce, have been welcomed by the RCN. It's

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good to be a very important aspect in terms of future planning of the

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National Health Service staff. We know we will have more staff than we

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had in 2007, but she should appreciate the welcome by the RCN to

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that initiative. All the points she makes are important, she should also

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remember that there are certain guarantees given to our public

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servants in Scotland which have provided a great deal of the

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insurance, no compulsory redundancies, I mention that because

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she might be aware that the National Health Service immigrants have made

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a total of 8702 compulsory redundancies since 2011. While

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unacceptable that we must be vigilant and we will do it on a

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cross-party basis in terms of eradicating any acceptable

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management practices in the NHS, I hope she will be in arrests enough

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to concede that it in terms of workforce planning, he/she welcomed

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by the RCN, and intent of the no compulsory redundancy, there are

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aspects of the public service workforce in Scotland which are in

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comparatively better than what is happening elsewhere on these

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islands. Either the First Minister is aware that the dreadful weather

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conditions affecting many parts of Scotland, including the Borders

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today, many schools in the Borders have had to close due to loss of

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power. Can you show me the government will be doing everything

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possible to make sure local councils are given the support they need to

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get reconnected to be power supply as possible? I try to give an update

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early on. The number of school closures is 195, seven in the

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Scottish Borders. But it is an evolving situation. The minister of

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transport is in full operation, we will find public services are

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working hard to inform the public of the likely consequences of

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disruption, including school closures, but also to travel, and

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also to restore supplies as quickly as possible. I shall arrange for

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information to be launched, so any member can see what is happening for

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some hissy aware that funding for the NHS Grampian falls short of what

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should be by 35mm is a year. Does he agree that trying to run health

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services without proper funding was like running a race against Usain

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Bolt and having to give him a four yard start? With the help catch up

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by setting a full timetable for information of the government 's own

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funding formula? The member will know that we have taken a policy to

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bring the boards towards parity, in a way that doesn't cut services

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elsewhere. He should also be aware that this week I visited the new

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health village in Grampian, the first of the hard initiatives, which

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will have 600 staff working in a combined service, and from the 10th

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of December, we will be seeing many patients. I think he should welcome

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that initiative, the first of its kind in Scotland, one of many that

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have been rolled out. He should also be aware that I monitor very closely

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the statistics on waking times -- waiting times in Grampian. I can

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tell him that spectacular new investment has been one of the

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reasons, along with the commitment of our NHS staff, for a very good

:22:36.:22:42.

performance in terms of meeting the targets on throughput of patients.

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An indication that combined with the new facilities coming into place, we

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can still make substantial improvement to our health service,

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which I'm sure all members will welcome. To ask the First Minister

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what recent conversations the Scottish Government has had with UK

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Government regarding the Barnett formula? I have written to the prime

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minister seeking clarity on the proposed Christmas to plan for a tip

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cut in Scotland in the event of a no vote. While he has not provided any

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answers on the future of the Barnett for Miller, we do know that

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Westminster calls for spending in Scotland to be cut by about ?4

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billion, the equivalent of ?1600 for every income taxpayer in Scotland.

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We also know that in every one of the last 32 years, Scotland has

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contributed more in tax per head in the UK, and in the five years to

:23:43.:23:48.

2012, the relative surplus was 12.6 billion pounds. It does seem

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extraordinary, in the face of these figures on income, that Westminster

:23:53.:23:57.

parties are proposing to follow the provisions of the commission which

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suggests a ?4 billion cut in Scottish expenditure. I think it's

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very important that the Prime Minister answers that letter and

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reveals the intentions of this government, if there were a no vote

:24:13.:24:21.

in Scotland next year. As well as that cut, we also know from the

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autumn statement that Westminster have their sights set on Scotland

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and there pensioners. Does he give me -- agrees me that under these

:24:33.:24:36.

plans, people in Scotland will enjoy fewer years of retirement and

:24:37.:24:39.

pension in almost any other part of Europe, and to see agree that this

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is at yet another reason for Scotland to vote yes in next year's

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referendum? I heard, when Ruth Crawford was making these excellent

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points, disquiet on the Labour Party backbenchers. There should be

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disquiet. An all-party committee has put forward a proposal that the

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proposals should be followed with regard to spending in terms of a no

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vote. In an article described as... This is the head of the article,

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Scotland is taking more than its share of funds, they estimated that

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would cut Scotland's spending by ?4 billion. For any -- I have indicated

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what that would mean in terms of an income tax rise by everyone in

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Scotland, but perhaps the chamber would like to reflect that the

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dramatic cuts we have seen over this period of austerity and that

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something, just over ?3 billion a year. So what the colleagues in

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Westminster have in mind for Scotland is a cut following a no

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vote, even greater than the austerity we have seen from Labour

:25:58.:26:00.

and Tory governments over the last few years will stop they are --.

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They will be disquiet across Scotland as these facts percolate

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into the debate. Can the First Minister tell us why the lead

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abating point in favour of independence, from him and his party

:26:19.:26:23.

colleagues, has become the report of an obscure Westminster committee? Is

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it because his substantive economic and financial arguments in favour of

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independence have fallen apart within days, so that his project

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wish of last week has become Project scared today? I would like to

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say... The case for independence is to explain how in the transformation

:26:52.:26:55.

of childcare provision in this country, independence means jobs and

:26:56.:27:00.

new prosperity for Scotland. But can I say to Malcolm Chisholm why I take

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this seriously. I met George Osborne when he was Shadow Chancellor to ask

:27:05.:27:09.

what his intentions were with regard to the honour to formula. He told me

:27:10.:27:12.

it was his intention to scrap the Barnett formula. He told me that.

:27:13.:27:17.

Alistair Carmichael says that formula will be there until this

:27:18.:27:26.

period of austerity is over. George Osborne has just said the economy

:27:27.:27:32.

has stabilised. Now of course, the argument is that we say we want to

:27:33.:27:38.

have access to Scottish revenue because yes, we received 9.3% of

:27:39.:27:45.

spending in the last count but we generated 9.9% of the revenue of

:27:46.:27:49.

this country. What the no campaign and his colleagues in Westminster

:27:50.:27:55.

want to do, I can give them a range of quotations, is to cut Scottish

:27:56.:28:05.

pending -- spending, as the ultimate comes through, of the transformation

:28:06.:28:09.

in society that is possible for having access to Scottish resources,

:28:10.:28:12.

then this argument will follow the yes vote next year. To ask the first

:28:13.:28:22.

Mr which powers of the first Mr which powers over land ownership

:28:23.:28:24.

could be devolved to the Scottish Parliament to strengthen Scottish

:28:25.:28:29.

land reform? The land reform agenda is part of building a more equal

:28:30.:28:35.

society. Earlier this year, I announced a target that 1 million

:28:36.:28:42.

acres of land should be in community ownership by 2020. There is a review

:28:43.:28:51.

group producing a plan, but decisions about ownership and

:28:52.:28:53.

leasing are tied to policies on taxation. I thank him for that

:28:54.:29:00.

answer with regard to taxation, would he agree with me that

:29:01.:29:04.

Westminster's Scottish affairs committee, enquiring into land

:29:05.:29:07.

reform, which met last week in Inverness, must focus on ways to end

:29:08.:29:16.

UK tax system's lenient treatment of landowners who use it for capital

:29:17.:29:23.

gains tax. The registration of such entities in offshore tax havens such

:29:24.:29:27.

as Grand Cayman, and the offsetting of this data management losses

:29:28.:29:32.

against landowners, each one of these reserve powers hinders

:29:33.:29:36.

Scotland's effective approach through this Parliament to land

:29:37.:29:44.

reform. Which is why we have set out in the White Paper that we want a

:29:45.:29:48.

simple, transparent system, designed to minimise the opportunities for

:29:49.:29:53.

tax avoidance. The member will also be aware of other reserve powers

:29:54.:29:58.

that are important, the attempted land grab by the Ministry of

:29:59.:30:03.

Defence, contrary to the wishes of the local community, and I can

:30:04.:30:09.

assure him that such a situation would not be allowed to happen. I

:30:10.:30:14.

hope and believe that people in this chamber will celebrate the fact in

:30:15.:30:18.

that target for 1 million acres of land in committee ownership, not

:30:19.:30:23.

making up a huge contribution to the target in numbers, but hugely

:30:24.:30:28.

important for communities and symbolically, we will shortly have a

:30:29.:30:33.

situation where the lighthouse is in community ownership, and the far

:30:34.:30:39.

north of Scotland will soon be in community ownership. I think most

:30:40.:30:47.

will find it symbolically important for these communities.

:30:48.:31:02.

Joseph Rowntree foundation report, coping with cuts. The time when the

:31:03.:31:11.

Scottish Government budget has been cut by 20 -- 10% as a result of the

:31:12.:31:17.

austerity agendas of the Westminster parties, the Scottish Government has

:31:18.:31:20.

worked closely with our local partners to protect communities. As

:31:21.:31:25.

the report makes clear, Scottish local authorities are fed to them

:31:26.:31:30.

they English counterparts, with the next period, maintaining a

:31:31.:31:39.

like-for-like basis. The Joseph Rowntree report recognised the

:31:40.:31:44.

protection provided by council budgets for Scotland but it is

:31:45.:31:46.

disappointing that the analysis fails to recognise that local

:31:47.:31:51.

funding is determined by the needs -based funding formula agreed,

:31:52.:31:56.

largely driven by population and importantly, by pupil numbers. We

:31:57.:32:04.

can agree that level government is one of the four most casualties of

:32:05.:32:07.

austerity but given that local government has borne the brunt of

:32:08.:32:11.

the time and cost for providing those services, they have risen by

:32:12.:32:16.

10% with big social care and welfare challenges to come. Does the first

:32:17.:32:21.

Mr except that given the loss of ?1 billion from Scottish government

:32:22.:32:25.

spending and anti-poverty programmes, it's vital that next

:32:26.:32:31.

week's financing that is underpinned by principles of fairness and social

:32:32.:32:35.

justice, if the most vulnerable in our communities are not to be

:32:36.:32:38.

subjected not just to austerity but to austerity bus? It would seem a

:32:39.:32:45.

good reason for Scotland never again being subjected to the government

:32:46.:32:48.

that we have at the moment in Westminster. Can I just take issue

:32:49.:32:55.

in terms of how she describes the situation. I have the figures here

:32:56.:32:59.

in terms of local government spending, as part of the overall

:33:00.:33:06.

Scottish loch. That is increased from 34.7% five years ago to 36.4%

:33:07.:33:11.

on a like-for-like basis. It's simply not true. On the contrary, as

:33:12.:33:18.

the report indicates, the Scottish local authorities are not just fared

:33:19.:33:20.

better than the English counterparts but have a... It is incorrect for

:33:21.:33:30.

her to try and assert that local government has borne the burden of

:33:31.:33:35.

cuts. On the contrary, the impact of the percentage on local government

:33:36.:33:38.

spending as part of the total budget we have has risen from five years

:33:39.:33:45.

ago. I don't except the argument that this government isn't acting to

:33:46.:33:50.

mitigate the impact of austerity and poverty. For example, over the

:33:51.:33:57.

period from 2013, for the next few years, to mitigate welfare put

:33:58.:34:02.

reform, there will be spending a ?44 million. Maybe at some stage we will

:34:03.:34:09.

come to an agreement that instead of having to take action to mitigate

:34:10.:34:12.

the worst of Westminster's spending cuts, perhaps we should charge --

:34:13.:34:17.

take charge of the resources of this nation and plan out a new future for

:34:18.:34:25.

this country. That the first minister explained earlier to the

:34:26.:34:28.

opposition benches the reality of the 4 billion cut coming down from

:34:29.:34:34.

Westminster. I wonder if he would take this opportunity to explain to

:34:35.:34:37.

the opposition potential impact of that on this armaments efforts to

:34:38.:34:56.

tackle poverty. The continuation of austerity will cause a great deal of

:34:57.:35:04.

misery across society, in terms of supporting charities in terms of

:35:05.:35:06.

those suffering from benefit cuts, and also Council tax reduction and

:35:07.:35:11.

in partnership with our local authorities, to protect the people

:35:12.:35:15.

on council tax benefits from the impact of austerity and the

:35:16.:35:18.

commitment to mitigate the bedroom tax this year and next. The Scottish

:35:19.:35:22.

Government has done everything within its powers to take the edge

:35:23.:35:26.

of these has polished shoes Westminster. This will make Scotland

:35:27.:35:36.

a more equal society, this is exactly why we have to take charge

:35:37.:35:40.

of the resources and spending of this country, to move policy in much

:35:41.:35:50.

better direction. We have come to the close their, as you would

:35:51.:35:53.

expect, the subject was mainly money. The right in to do on the day

:35:54.:35:59.

that was the chance in to do on the day that was the Chancellor's Autumn

:36:00.:36:00.

statement.

:36:01.:36:02.

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