Browse content similar to 11/12/2013. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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Welcome to Politics Scotland. Coming up: Accusations the Scottish | :00:21. | :00:26. | |
government is failing to meet manifesto pledges on schools as new | :00:27. | :00:30. | |
figures show a rise in average class sizes. People in Pretoria paid | :00:31. | :00:35. | |
tribute to Nelson Mandela, as his Coffin lies in state. MSPs remember | :00:36. | :00:40. | |
the man and his connections to Scotland. Here at Westminster, party | :00:41. | :00:51. | |
leaders due up to give -- trash plans to give a pay rise to MPs. Can | :00:52. | :00:56. | |
they stop it? The average class size of tuple is in primary 1-3 has | :00:57. | :01:04. | |
increased to 23. The SNP pledge that all memory class sizes would be | :01:05. | :01:12. | |
smaller as failed. -- primary class sizes. They blamed extreme financial | :01:13. | :01:20. | |
pressure for missing the target. We have achieved the maximum in law. We | :01:21. | :01:26. | |
now need to see whether we can put primary to an primary three into | :01:27. | :01:32. | |
law. The class sizes of 18, in a time of extreme financial pressure, | :01:33. | :01:36. | |
we have not got that, but we have maintained, and in hands, the | :01:37. | :01:40. | |
quality of Scottish education. -- enhanced. We are joined by Mike Wade | :01:41. | :01:49. | |
from The Times, and also by the education correspondent Jamie | :01:50. | :01:55. | |
McIvor. It seems like bad news for the Education Secretary. Certainly, | :01:56. | :02:00. | |
when it comes to class sizes, it will be something of a political | :02:01. | :02:07. | |
argument. This is this that is the -- this is the bulletin that the | :02:08. | :02:12. | |
government published. There is much in it that the government is proud | :02:13. | :02:17. | |
of. They are keen to highlight things such as more probationary | :02:18. | :02:22. | |
teachers getting jobs, fewer pupils in bad buildings, and a drop in the | :02:23. | :02:25. | |
number of pupils being excluded, but I think it is the issue of class | :02:26. | :02:29. | |
sizes that will be seized on. There has been a big drop in the number of | :02:30. | :02:34. | |
pupils in primary one, two and three, and a significant rise in | :02:35. | :02:46. | |
four, five and six. Cutting class sizes has been a priority since they | :02:47. | :02:50. | |
came to office. As we were hearing, there is a limit of 25 on primary | :02:51. | :02:55. | |
one pupils, and that is being kept too. There are only a few hundred | :02:56. | :03:03. | |
pupils in classes of more than 25. There are exceptional reasons why | :03:04. | :03:07. | |
that happens. I think it is the fact that the average class sizes are | :03:08. | :03:10. | |
creeping up again, the direction of travel is not going the way the | :03:11. | :03:16. | |
government would like, it is that that is the issue. Mike Wade, lots | :03:17. | :03:22. | |
of good news in those statistics, but also, this is a key target for | :03:23. | :03:27. | |
them pointed out by the SNP Government, education, education | :03:28. | :03:35. | |
education, always a key priority. It goes to the heart of another policy, | :03:36. | :03:40. | |
the council tax freeze. Local authorities have got their hands | :03:41. | :03:43. | |
tied to some degree. When you look at that, it is quite specific, these | :03:44. | :03:51. | |
numbers should have fallen. They have missed their target quite | :03:52. | :03:58. | |
substantially. It was set in 2010. They have missed that for the third | :03:59. | :04:03. | |
year running. The Education Secretary was blaming extreme | :04:04. | :04:09. | |
financial pressures. The local authorities under a funding squeeze | :04:10. | :04:12. | |
at the moment. What is the problem and how might it be resolved? | :04:13. | :04:18. | |
Education is a national service which local authorities are | :04:19. | :04:22. | |
entrusted to provide. Although the government and local authorities can | :04:23. | :04:28. | |
agree priorities, at the end of the day, some local authorities have | :04:29. | :04:32. | |
different priorities in spending money. In education, the tension | :04:33. | :04:39. | |
comes to the fore. Mike Russell was pointing out in the clip that we | :04:40. | :04:43. | |
showed that education in Scotland was improving. Rumack years, but | :04:44. | :04:51. | |
they have made such a great play in the White Paper and recent weeks | :04:52. | :04:57. | |
about the focus on education, on parents, it is just bad news to have | :04:58. | :05:05. | |
this kind of thing, he said there was something particularly good | :05:06. | :05:08. | |
about some aspects of the statistics. I could not see it. It | :05:09. | :05:13. | |
does not look good at all. This is something voters really care about. | :05:14. | :05:17. | |
We will be back later. Jamie McIvor, thank you for that. An audience has | :05:18. | :05:25. | |
questioned Alex Salmond on the White Paper for independence yesterday. | :05:26. | :05:29. | |
Civic Scotland and business were among the audience who put | :05:30. | :05:33. | |
questions, ranging from Scotland's role in Europe to the future state | :05:34. | :05:36. | |
of the economy. We start with a question on childcare. Don't believe | :05:37. | :05:42. | |
there isn't a single woman in Scotland that would want to embrace | :05:43. | :05:46. | |
this, I Will you make sure it gets out there? -- how do you? Politics | :05:47. | :05:55. | |
is failing a significant section of our community and the referendum | :05:56. | :05:58. | |
will not reach these people because they have lost confidence in | :05:59. | :06:02. | |
politics. Are you worried about Madrid? I reflect along with other | :06:03. | :06:10. | |
business associations and increasing frustration in the business | :06:11. | :06:13. | |
community. What we need to see either costings which back-up the | :06:14. | :06:18. | |
reassurances which are offered. On a variety of subjects, we will be | :06:19. | :06:22. | |
publishing more. The White Paper is our platform. People want to engage | :06:23. | :06:29. | |
in the debate. That was the first minister speaking at the meeting. | :06:30. | :06:35. | |
That was a quickfire round look at some of the questions that were | :06:36. | :06:38. | |
there. You were at the meeting. What was the general feeling? It was a | :06:39. | :06:45. | |
funny event, in a way. I find it amazing that the government can take | :06:46. | :06:50. | |
so much time to take this on the road. But they are creating debate | :06:51. | :06:57. | |
around the issues, which is very interesting. As a journalist, I am | :06:58. | :07:03. | |
inclined to be cynical. It is in my DNA. But travelling away from that, | :07:04. | :07:08. | |
I spoke to people at the meeting and they were impressed. They were | :07:09. | :07:13. | |
impressed that issues I had just referred to like early years had | :07:14. | :07:18. | |
been raised. The danger for better together is that they allowed the | :07:19. | :07:24. | |
SNP and the yes campaign to dominate those issues. They can say they are | :07:25. | :07:29. | |
the only people talking about these things in Scotland. I really think | :07:30. | :07:36. | |
that is an interesting issue and I know there are a lot of people who | :07:37. | :07:40. | |
don't know, and I think you might see some movement, whatever the | :07:41. | :07:49. | |
polling says. We started with the clip on childcare, that was a huge | :07:50. | :07:53. | |
issue. How much did people discuss that yesterday and what was the | :07:54. | :07:58. | |
focus of that? Your clip has picked up from memory pretty much all the | :07:59. | :08:03. | |
questions about that. It was very broad. Their work logical -- there | :08:04. | :08:13. | |
was some critical voiceplu-mac. I think the reaction was positive. | :08:14. | :08:18. | |
They got hundreds of people into a room and they made them think, what | :08:19. | :08:24. | |
shape do we want Scotland to be? You might not agree with that but it was | :08:25. | :08:29. | |
an interesting discussion. Alex Salmond was saying he would publish | :08:30. | :08:35. | |
more detail. Was the White Paper meant to be definitive in terms of | :08:36. | :08:39. | |
what was laid out? It is interesting he says there will be more detail. | :08:40. | :08:44. | |
That was my impression, that it was meant to be definitive, and in the | :08:45. | :08:49. | |
months before you were hearing there was a worry that there would be | :08:50. | :08:52. | |
nothing there, and in fact there was hundreds of pages, the one thing | :08:53. | :08:57. | |
was, there was not a cost structure, there was no Bill, what it would | :08:58. | :09:05. | |
cost. It seems to me, the White Paper suggest that you could have | :09:06. | :09:07. | |
everything, you could have this and this and this, what struck me was | :09:08. | :09:11. | |
you could have this or this, you cannot have childcare on a Swedish | :09:12. | :09:20. | |
model and low taxation. You have to make a choice. Moving onto the next | :09:21. | :09:26. | |
issue, the live statement in Parliament coming up in a moment, | :09:27. | :09:31. | |
the finance secretary is going to speak about the budget for 2015, | :09:32. | :09:38. | |
local authorities, the councils will be watching with interest. With | :09:39. | :09:44. | |
bated breath, it is unlucky or ironic, coming out on the same day | :09:45. | :09:52. | |
as the school statistics. What you feel instinctively is what we always | :09:53. | :09:59. | |
call Cinderella services, literary services are really suffering here. | :10:00. | :10:05. | |
They will suffer some more. John Swinney will lay out in the | :10:06. | :10:11. | |
statement some of the partnership working is that they have with local | :10:12. | :10:13. | |
authorities when it comes to schools, the number of teachers, | :10:14. | :10:18. | |
probably talking about the council tax as well. It does seem local | :10:19. | :10:21. | |
authorities are under pressure because of the council tax freeze. | :10:22. | :10:26. | |
Massively under pressure. The council tax freeze seems to me as | :10:27. | :10:35. | |
very strange policy, I have never really understood it. It is not a | :10:36. | :10:41. | |
fair tax, it penalises people at the lower end to the benefit of people | :10:42. | :10:46. | |
who can afford to pay it. I don't understood that, I have never | :10:47. | :10:51. | |
understood it. It is interesting that this ties in with the previous | :10:52. | :10:56. | |
discussion about education funding, class sizes. Very much so. If you | :10:57. | :11:05. | |
have had kids in school, you just hear this all the time. This | :11:06. | :11:09. | |
constant tension about school resources is there all the time. | :11:10. | :11:17. | |
Ministers are burying their heads in the sand if they don't hear that. It | :11:18. | :11:22. | |
is very evident if you're a parent. Thanks very much for that. The | :11:23. | :11:27. | |
Presiding Officer is now speaking in the parliament just now. I think the | :11:28. | :11:32. | |
finance secretary John Swinney is just taking his seat in the chamber, | :11:33. | :11:38. | |
ready to give that statement on the financial settlement for local | :11:39. | :11:42. | |
authorities, 2014-2015. After that, we will be hearing from the Scottish | :11:43. | :11:47. | |
Conservative-led debate on the Autumn Statement. Here is John | :11:48. | :11:53. | |
Swinney with that statement. There should be no interruptions or | :11:54. | :11:58. | |
interventions. I call on John Swinney, you have ten minutes. I | :11:59. | :12:04. | |
statement will cover two topics. I will update the local government | :12:05. | :12:07. | |
settlement for the current financial year, set out the terms of the | :12:08. | :12:11. | |
provisional settlement, and confirm the overall total figures for | :12:12. | :12:19. | |
2015-2016. I will update Parliament on the business rate proposals for | :12:20. | :12:25. | |
Scotland. Copies of the tables containing the information are | :12:26. | :12:30. | |
available. This plays a major role in local partnerships that are | :12:31. | :12:33. | |
essential to the delivery of the outcomes that matter for the people | :12:34. | :12:36. | |
of Scotland. In recognising this we have maintained our strong | :12:37. | :12:42. | |
partnership with COSLA. We have set agreements against a backdrop of | :12:43. | :12:49. | |
continued financial constraints in Scotland from the United Kingdom | :12:50. | :12:54. | |
government. Turing this period, we have remained committed to that | :12:55. | :12:59. | |
partnership and protected local government as much as possible to | :13:00. | :13:02. | |
shield communities from the worst of these cuts. Between 2007-2008 and | :13:03. | :13:12. | |
2012-2013, the resources increased by 4.6%, and local government | :13:13. | :13:20. | |
budgets improved by 8.9%. This degree of protection has continued | :13:21. | :13:30. | |
and between 2013-2014 and 2015-2016, the resources under the Scottish | :13:31. | :13:34. | |
Government's control will increase by 2%. -- 0.2%. The share of total | :13:35. | :13:43. | |
revenue funding within the government control will have | :13:44. | :13:47. | |
increased. There can be no argument whilst times have been tight, local | :13:48. | :13:50. | |
government has been fairly funded. The figures resulting from the | :13:51. | :13:57. | |
Spending Review resulted in a flat cash settlement on a like-for-like | :13:58. | :14:01. | |
basis compared to an 8% cash reduction in England over the same | :14:02. | :14:07. | |
period. In connection with 2013-2014, I am able to confirm some | :14:08. | :14:12. | |
additional funding for lip -- over ?60 million. That has been discussed | :14:13. | :14:19. | |
with COSLA. This sum will be partially offset by a recovery of | :14:20. | :14:23. | |
around ?41 million from local authorities in respect of both | :14:24. | :14:27. | |
committed and uncommitted police reserves that have been returned to | :14:28. | :14:30. | |
local authorities following the winding up of the former joint | :14:31. | :14:33. | |
boards and the successful establishment of police Scotland. | :14:34. | :14:39. | |
This ?41 million represents the Scottish Government's share of the | :14:40. | :14:42. | |
outstanding reserves. The additional sums are as follows: ?27.5 million | :14:43. | :14:48. | |
previously held back for the teacher induction scheme, ?20 million to top | :14:49. | :14:54. | |
up discretionary housing payments, ?4 million for second languages and | :14:55. | :14:58. | |
?2.5 million in respect of the National care home contract. On a | :14:59. | :15:02. | |
like-for-like basis, the 2015 settlement represents cash with | :15:03. | :15:07. | |
additional funding for extra responsibilities. We have also | :15:08. | :15:12. | |
continued to honour our commitment to maintain local government's share | :15:13. | :15:15. | |
of the overall capital resources within the Scottish budget. The | :15:16. | :15:21. | |
settlement originally set out as part of the three-year local | :15:22. | :15:23. | |
government finance settlement covering the period to 2015 has been | :15:24. | :15:30. | |
maintained this by the significant challenges presented by the recent | :15:31. | :15:34. | |
outcome of the various UK budgets and the June 2013 spending round | :15:35. | :15:37. | |
which have resulted in further cuts in post on the budget for 2015. None | :15:38. | :15:44. | |
of those reductions in Scotland's budget which resulted to ?40.6 | :15:45. | :15:57. | |
million in 2013-2014 and 2014-2015 have been passed on to local | :15:58. | :16:01. | |
government. Support will amount to almost ?10.6 billion, including | :16:02. | :16:07. | |
revenue and capital funding along with income raised from business | :16:08. | :16:11. | |
rates. Within the total funding package it will amount to ?985 | :16:12. | :16:15. | |
million, including the funding to deliver council tax freeze. Capital | :16:16. | :16:27. | |
of ?773 million. The total includes a further 81 million to deliver on | :16:28. | :16:31. | |
the commitment to fully fund the additional cost of early learning | :16:32. | :16:36. | |
and childcare. This is ?51 million from revenue costs and 30 million | :16:37. | :16:42. | |
for capital expenditure. As of August 20 14, three-year-olds and | :16:43. | :16:46. | |
four-year-olds will be eligible for 600 hours of care, and increase on | :16:47. | :16:53. | |
the 475 currently. This package will save the average family ?707 a | :16:54. | :16:59. | |
year, per child. The total revenue includes small changes since the | :17:00. | :17:06. | |
publication of the draft budget. The main being the addition of the 20 | :17:07. | :17:10. | |
million for the discretionary housing payments to alleviate the | :17:11. | :17:15. | |
impact of the bedroom tax. As part of the partnership approach, local | :17:16. | :17:19. | |
government agreed to deliver priorities for the people of | :17:20. | :17:23. | |
Scotland. The agreement was described in my letter to this list | :17:24. | :17:28. | |
macro that set out the terms of the settlement. As part of it, local | :17:29. | :17:33. | |
authorities will freeze the council tax, which has continued to help | :17:34. | :17:37. | |
families in tough times. Maintain teacher numbers in line with new | :17:38. | :17:43. | |
above numbers, secure places the probationers and work with the NHS | :17:44. | :17:48. | |
to the integration of adult health and social care. The Finance | :17:49. | :17:55. | |
Secretary speaking live. After those proceedings, MSPs will debate the | :17:56. | :18:00. | |
Autumn Statement. If you want to get the debate live, you can watch it on | :18:01. | :18:05. | |
the BBC democracy live website from 3:10pm. The Conservative lead debate | :18:06. | :18:10. | |
praises the work of George Osborne and opponents criticise it. We can | :18:11. | :18:21. | |
discuss that now. SNP's Jamie Hepburn. Iain Gray from Labour. And | :18:22. | :18:27. | |
the Conservatives' Murdo Fraser. There is praise the George Osborne | :18:28. | :18:30. | |
in the debate, led by your colleague Gavin Brown, but what about the | :18:31. | :18:37. | |
amendment put forward that the austerity drive has resulted in | :18:38. | :18:40. | |
opportunities for growth being missed? The economy is 5.9 smaller, | :18:41. | :18:47. | |
five but 9% in 2015, than forecast in 2010. John Swinney and his | :18:48. | :18:53. | |
colleagues have been left looking ridiculous following the recovery in | :18:54. | :19:00. | |
the UK over the past year. They told us relentlessly over the past five | :19:01. | :19:03. | |
years that the austerity programme would choke off any recovery, that | :19:04. | :19:10. | |
we would never see the economy grow and their hat to be a plan B. Time | :19:11. | :19:19. | |
after time we heard SNP spokespeople trotting out these lines and they | :19:20. | :19:23. | |
have been proven wrong. The economy is growing faster than virtually any | :19:24. | :19:28. | |
other Western economy as a result of those decisions the UK government | :19:29. | :19:34. | |
took. It is right we congratulate the UK government and we recognise | :19:35. | :19:37. | |
the benefit to Scotland from the Autumn Statement. Scottish | :19:38. | :19:43. | |
businesses will benefit by 45 million through the scrapping of | :19:44. | :19:46. | |
employers national short runs contributions for the under 21. And | :19:47. | :19:54. | |
a consequence of ?308 million of the decisions taken by George Osborne. | :19:55. | :20:03. | |
Jamie Hepburn, you have been made to look ridiculous according to Mr | :20:04. | :20:07. | |
Fraser with the growth projections revised upwards. I do not think so. | :20:08. | :20:17. | |
You made the point, Andrew, that in terms of where growth is now, and | :20:18. | :20:24. | |
2015, it is lower than forecast in 2010 and it is interesting to hear | :20:25. | :20:29. | |
Murdo Fraser and talk of the UK economy growing faster than any | :20:30. | :20:34. | |
other developed country, which is predicted by the office of budget | :20:35. | :20:40. | |
responsibility. It is interesting to see the conservative than an | :20:41. | :20:43. | |
spokesperson leading the debate for the Tories. He was with me at the | :20:44. | :20:47. | |
Finance committee last week and we had a professor, David Bell, telling | :20:48. | :20:52. | |
us that forecast record of the office the budget responsibility is | :20:53. | :21:00. | |
not that good. Labour are in an awkward position. We heard is the | :21:01. | :21:04. | |
mantra that their hat to be a plan B, but when you hear these figures, | :21:05. | :21:09. | |
you hear about the economy growing, does it leave you in a difficult | :21:10. | :21:14. | |
position? In your amendment, you focus on calling for the Scottish | :21:15. | :21:17. | |
government to use more money for childcare. That is right. I feel | :21:18. | :21:24. | |
sorry for Murdo Fraser in a way because this is an attempt by the | :21:25. | :21:29. | |
Tories here to get in on George Osborne's Autumn Statement, which | :21:30. | :21:34. | |
was meant to proclaim the recovery had happened and austerity worked, | :21:35. | :21:39. | |
and that unravels. The day after, opinion polls showed that 70% of the | :21:40. | :21:44. | |
public do not believe there is a recovery, which is not surprising. | :21:45. | :21:50. | |
In general, people are ?1600 a year worse off than when the Tories came | :21:51. | :21:54. | |
to power. We can argue about numbers on the deficit, but people do not | :21:55. | :22:01. | |
feel a recovery because their wages are worth less and they buy less. | :22:02. | :22:11. | |
They feel a squeeze. There is an opportunity for the SNP in the | :22:12. | :22:15. | |
Autumn Statement. He is correct when he says there are over ?300 million | :22:16. | :22:20. | |
of consequence, additional money coming to the Scottish government | :22:21. | :22:25. | |
over the next two years. That is what our amendment focuses on. We | :22:26. | :22:32. | |
say to the SNP, since they launched the White Paper on childcare, the | :22:33. | :22:37. | |
importance and the transformational power of extending childcare, and | :22:38. | :22:40. | |
when asked why they would not do that, they said they did not have | :22:41. | :22:45. | |
the money. They do have money now. They should use it for this | :22:46. | :22:51. | |
priority, we say. Murdo Fraser, it is a cost of living crisis, that is | :22:52. | :22:56. | |
the Labour mantra. I would say gently to him that it was not a | :22:57. | :23:01. | |
Conservative government that was in power when the economic crisis | :23:02. | :23:07. | |
happened. We are dealing with a legacy of economic mismanagement | :23:08. | :23:11. | |
taken by the previous government. It lasted longer than we hoped, the | :23:12. | :23:16. | |
recession, which we saw across the euro zone. We are coming out of | :23:17. | :23:21. | |
that. The Labour Party needs to take responsibility with the decisions | :23:22. | :23:26. | |
they took in government. We saw from Ed Balls last week and today, no | :23:27. | :23:31. | |
access items from the Labour Party for the current state of the | :23:32. | :23:35. | |
economy. We know times are hard. They are starting to get better, | :23:36. | :23:40. | |
slowly, and that is good news. It was not the Conservative government | :23:41. | :23:44. | |
that cause that to happen. The second point he put to Mr Byrne. Mr | :23:45. | :23:52. | |
Graves says you can use the money to pay for childcare provision. -- Iain | :23:53. | :23:58. | |
Gray. This is the hope in Scotland's future, the White Paper, | :23:59. | :24:05. | |
why not use the money now? I agree, people at the sharp end of the | :24:06. | :24:11. | |
economy would question the recovery and I agree with the comments that | :24:12. | :24:17. | |
Iain Gray made. In terms of childcare, he made the point about | :24:18. | :24:21. | |
the money coming for a two-year period. He had put in a childcare -- | :24:22. | :24:27. | |
if you put a childcare policy in, it has to be for the long-term. We have | :24:28. | :24:33. | |
ambitious plans. We just heard in the statement from John Swinney, the | :24:34. | :24:37. | |
extension of the number of hours per year. Going up from 475 up to 600. | :24:38. | :24:46. | |
At the heart of the White Paper we have a proposal to have every child | :24:47. | :24:55. | |
over the age of one getting the childcare, costing ?700 million a | :24:56. | :25:00. | |
year, there is no way we could afford that under devolution. We | :25:01. | :25:09. | |
have two leave it there. Thanks. The body of Nelson Mandela is lying in | :25:10. | :25:13. | |
state in Pretoria. Thousands of people are queuing to pay their | :25:14. | :25:16. | |
respects. Mr Mandela died last Thursday and many people across | :25:17. | :25:18. | |
Scotland have been remembering their role in the anti-apartheid campaign. | :25:19. | :25:21. | |
Yesterday in Parliament, MSPs gave their tributes to the former ANC | :25:22. | :25:26. | |
leader. He provided an example to people across the planet and | :25:27. | :25:30. | |
encouraged us to live up to our better natures. He inspired us to | :25:31. | :25:34. | |
work for the day in the words that resounded around the parliament that | :25:35. | :25:41. | |
when it was open, . Today, this Parliament extends our condolences | :25:42. | :25:48. | |
to the great man's family and to the people of South Africa. The world is | :25:49. | :25:52. | |
much poorer for his passing, but much richer for his life. When | :25:53. | :26:00. | |
Nelson Mandela walked out of jail, tall, dignified, smiling, unbroken, | :26:01. | :26:06. | |
how many found hope again? A belief that change may be possible because | :26:07. | :26:12. | |
of this man and because of the decisions to Roy Cott and support | :26:13. | :26:15. | |
sanctions and to challenge investment in South Africa -- | :26:16. | :26:22. | |
boycott. That work could make a difference and there was a point in | :26:23. | :26:27. | |
politics and campaigning. He was the best of Africa and humanity, he was | :26:28. | :26:32. | |
the best of us all. Many members of my party did not reckon lies | :26:33. | :26:37. | |
apartheid for the grave violation of human dignity it was and did not act | :26:38. | :26:43. | |
the struggle to end it. It is a stain on the party as they find | :26:44. | :26:46. | |
themselves on the wrong side of history. Nelson Mandela did not just | :26:47. | :26:52. | |
speak for South Africa, but to the world. His message of faith, | :26:53. | :26:56. | |
forgiveness and human dignity makes him a man for all time. Today as we | :26:57. | :27:03. | |
reflect his life, he lifts is up to work to a better world, where, as he | :27:04. | :27:09. | |
said, we close the circle and we howled the advent of a glorious | :27:10. | :27:14. | |
summer of a partnership for freedom, peace, prosperity and friendship. | :27:15. | :27:23. | |
Consigning war, poverty and racism and injustice to history might seem | :27:24. | :27:29. | |
impossible. We will need the sense of justice, the courage, the | :27:30. | :27:33. | |
resilience and humanity who showed if we are ever to be able to say as | :27:34. | :27:38. | |
he did, it always seems in possible until it is done. -- impossible. We | :27:39. | :27:49. | |
can speak to Mike and weighed again. Many memories of Nelson | :27:50. | :27:51. | |
Mandela. -- -- Mike Wade. There were fantastic | :27:52. | :28:11. | |
scenes. At football matches, a minute's applause. Everywhere I have | :28:12. | :28:15. | |
been. People remember. It is right they are in motion. As one pointed | :28:16. | :28:26. | |
out, the stain on her party, an interesting article by Brian Wilson | :28:27. | :28:30. | |
in the Scotsman newspaper saying that those who campaigned against | :28:31. | :28:33. | |
apartheid were not numerous in Scotland. In specific periods he was | :28:34. | :28:41. | |
talking about that was true. He said there is a need to look at history, | :28:42. | :28:51. | |
warts and all. This was when Peter Hain cut his political teeth, and | :28:52. | :28:56. | |
Brian Wilson, these people were arrested. They were treated badly. | :28:57. | :29:02. | |
They were not popular. Rugby crowds booed them when they wanted the tour | :29:03. | :29:07. | |
to go ahead. She was very good to point that out, saying we were not | :29:08. | :29:11. | |
always on the right side. Interesting but Alex Salmond quoted | :29:12. | :29:25. | |
Robert Burns. When you think of the slave plantation and the massive | :29:26. | :29:35. | |
Rhondda. The fact of history. A lot -- -- massive wrong. Over the past | :29:36. | :29:44. | |
few weeks we have cupboards -- cover the debate on plans to abolish | :29:45. | :29:52. | |
corroboration. The centuries old legal measure requires evidence from | :29:53. | :29:54. | |
two sources in criminal trials. Yesterday, experts giving evidence | :29:55. | :29:57. | |
to the Justice Committee were asked whether there were enough safeguards | :29:58. | :30:00. | |
in the Criminal Scotland Bill to avoid miscarriages of justice if it | :30:01. | :30:03. | |
was removed. This will sound like a circular argument. The fact there is | :30:04. | :30:07. | |
a requirement for sufficiency of evidence is more important than | :30:08. | :30:11. | |
people have recognised, because, in fact, given the tendency for the | :30:12. | :30:18. | |
legal profession to be quite conservative, they will not need to | :30:19. | :30:22. | |
look far in the interpretation of sufficiency to find that they | :30:23. | :30:27. | |
discover corroboration would provide the sufficiency. Again, I suspect | :30:28. | :30:33. | |
the discussion will come full circle and in order for prosecutors and the | :30:34. | :30:40. | |
jury, particularly with sexual offences and domestic abuse, and in | :30:41. | :30:45. | |
cases involving children, I think that juries will look to have the | :30:46. | :30:50. | |
security of something equivalent to corroboration in order to achieve | :30:51. | :30:55. | |
sufficiency. They will be charged by the judge to find that. You would | :30:56. | :31:03. | |
find that into sources. If it went to the Scottish Law commission, it | :31:04. | :31:07. | |
could have a detailed look at other safeguards, would sufficiency ensure | :31:08. | :31:16. | |
that you would be protected from the credible but lying witness? We heard | :31:17. | :31:24. | |
the Cabinet Secretary stressed he wants to widen access to justice. I | :31:25. | :31:30. | |
wonder what the view is about whether or not this will result in | :31:31. | :31:36. | |
more prosecutions, but not necessarily more convictions. We | :31:37. | :31:45. | |
have seen evidence from the police and the Crown office suggesting | :31:46. | :31:49. | |
there would be additional prosecutions. We know from evidence | :31:50. | :31:55. | |
that it is very difficult to get a conviction without corroboration, so | :31:56. | :32:00. | |
the ultimate number of convictions would be unlikely to go up. The | :32:01. | :32:05. | |
danger with abolishing it is it is unlikely that you create another -- | :32:06. | :32:13. | |
a number of wrongful convictions but you let cases through the net. | :32:14. | :32:21. | |
Numbers are likely to be small. The point was made about sending people | :32:22. | :32:26. | |
to court, which is a risky prosecution that fails. The party | :32:27. | :32:32. | |
would be acquitted. They took the view that the woman would rather go | :32:33. | :32:36. | |
to court. What do you say about that? I do not see court as therapy. | :32:37. | :32:44. | |
If it was better that they got to tell their story, there would then | :32:45. | :32:47. | |
be a culture change in the judiciary. I cannot add anything to | :32:48. | :32:56. | |
your comments. There is difficulty with seeing court as a therapeutic | :32:57. | :33:00. | |
process. It is not a view that is expressed very often by people who | :33:01. | :33:04. | |
have been through the process. Now to Prime Minister's Questions where | :33:05. | :33:08. | |
David Cameron and Ed Miliband have criticised plans to award MPs and | :33:09. | :33:14. | |
11% pay rise. The Prime Minister said the recommendations of the | :33:15. | :33:17. | |
Parliamentary watchdog would be simply unacceptable. | :33:18. | :33:21. | |
Mr Speaker. Mr Speaker, does the Prime Minister agree with me that | :33:22. | :33:28. | |
given the crisis ordinary families are facing in their living | :33:29. | :33:32. | |
standards, MPs should not be awarded a pay rise many times above | :33:33. | :33:37. | |
inflation? I do agree with him about that issue. It would be wrong for | :33:38. | :33:41. | |
MPs to get a big pay rise at a time of public sector pay restraint. All | :33:42. | :33:45. | |
three party leaders agree on that, we have all made that point, and we | :33:46. | :33:50. | |
should be clear that what they have said is not a final recommendation. | :33:51. | :33:54. | |
The reason this is not the right time for this pay rise is because | :33:55. | :33:56. | |
most people are going through the biggest cost of living crisis in a | :33:57. | :34:00. | |
generation, and I want to turn to that cost of living crisis. Last | :34:01. | :34:05. | |
Thursday, the Chancellor claimed living standards were rising. That | :34:06. | :34:13. | |
is just not the case, is it? I thought the Institute of fiscal | :34:14. | :34:15. | |
studies put this very clearly, they said, we have had a great big | :34:16. | :34:20. | |
recession, we have had the biggest recession in a hundred years. It | :34:21. | :34:24. | |
would be astonishing if household incomes had not fallen and earnings | :34:25. | :34:29. | |
had not fallen, but the fact is that is the legacy of what they left us. | :34:30. | :34:44. | |
A great start. Can I thank the Prime Minister for saving my marriage? | :34:45. | :34:52. | |
Carolyn was just about to sign the divorce papers when she heard the | :34:53. | :34:56. | |
report that if we stayed together we would be in line for a sweet ?150 a | :34:57. | :35:03. | |
year tax break. But if, as the Prime Minister says, marriage must be | :35:04. | :35:10. | |
underpinned by the tax system, why is it since the tax allowance was | :35:11. | :35:14. | |
abolished the divorce rate has gone down? I am delighted happiness is | :35:15. | :35:22. | |
maintained in the Harris household, but I could put it another way. It | :35:23. | :35:26. | |
was only when I started talking about the allowance that the Leader | :35:27. | :35:32. | |
of the Opposition tied the knot. The tax system moves in mysterious ways. | :35:33. | :35:39. | |
Abolishing roaming charges is one of the big victories for British | :35:40. | :35:41. | |
consumers we might get from remaining in the European Union. As | :35:42. | :35:46. | |
the Prime Minister had the opportunity to discuss international | :35:47. | :35:49. | |
mobile phone usage with any other European heads of government in the | :35:50. | :35:56. | |
last day off -- last day? You could say, in a roundabout way. You should | :35:57. | :36:00. | |
always remember that television cameras are always on, but I would | :36:01. | :36:04. | |
say Nelson Mandela Place an extraordinary role in his life and | :36:05. | :36:08. | |
death of bringing people together, and when a member of the Kinnock | :36:09. | :36:11. | |
family ask for a photograph I thought it only polite to say yes. A | :36:12. | :36:18. | |
reference to the photograph David Cameron was taking yesterday at the | :36:19. | :36:22. | |
Nelson Mandela tribute. Our correspondent is standing by. It is | :36:23. | :36:28. | |
over to you. Thank you. I promise I will not take a photograph. There | :36:29. | :36:33. | |
will be discussion about what people might call self-interest. MPs | :36:34. | :36:39. | |
getting an 11% pay increase. How can they justify it? Can they do | :36:40. | :36:42. | |
anything to stop it? Joining me are Angus MacNeil and Jeremy Purvis. He | :36:43. | :36:51. | |
has recently taken his seat in the House of Lords. Jeremy Purvis, you | :36:52. | :36:56. | |
were in Hollywood, no Westminster, it does not affect you directly. | :36:57. | :37:03. | |
This is dreadful, isn't it? A committee recommending a pay | :37:04. | :37:10. | |
increase. Yes, and especially what sacrifices workers have had over the | :37:11. | :37:14. | |
last couple of years, I think there is an indefensible position. I am | :37:15. | :37:19. | |
pleased that the Scottish parliament have made a decision to break the | :37:20. | :37:25. | |
link. I think many of your viewers would be confused as to why there | :37:26. | :37:28. | |
was a link, but that is how the system was established. I think many | :37:29. | :37:34. | |
senior MPs in my party have said they would not take it anyway, so | :37:35. | :37:40. | |
they are trying to send a strong signal. Angus MacNeil, how can this | :37:41. | :37:47. | |
problem be resolved? It is an independent committee. They come up | :37:48. | :37:56. | |
with the recommendation and now you could be embarrassed if it goes | :37:57. | :38:05. | |
ahead. MPs are seething because they are left to come and defend or | :38:06. | :38:09. | |
explain. I am an string the question but it should be IPSA and soaring. | :38:10. | :38:18. | |
-- and syringa question. -- giving the answer to the question. There is | :38:19. | :38:26. | |
no way this can be justified at all. Where are IPSA? They should be | :38:27. | :38:31. | |
defending the ludicrous idea. In fairness, they will probably come | :38:32. | :38:38. | |
out and give their cancers. -- answers. Surely no MPs cannot set | :38:39. | :38:47. | |
their own wages? They are not, this is independent, I do not have | :38:48. | :38:51. | |
anything to do with this, I think the situation is a mess. The mood of | :38:52. | :39:01. | |
MPs across political parties is they have left MPs with eggs on their | :39:02. | :39:09. | |
faces. This is the issue of IPSA, it is nothing to do with me or the MPs. | :39:10. | :39:13. | |
They should sort this out and they should not be suggesting this at a | :39:14. | :39:21. | |
time like this. I cannot say this is justified. Jeremy Purvis, you | :39:22. | :39:26. | |
alluded that the Scottish Parliament might separate. -- separate what | :39:27. | :39:36. | |
they get. The trouble is, if you do separate that, is there a temptation | :39:37. | :39:42. | |
for MSPs to set their own page? I think that discussions are positive, | :39:43. | :39:48. | |
but it does not necessarily mean the link should be broken with the | :39:49. | :39:55. | |
allowances scheme, the Parliament in Scotland put in a more open and | :39:56. | :39:58. | |
transparent scheme that I operated under as an MSP, I did not have the | :39:59. | :40:03. | |
controversy that this institution had when I was in Holyrood. That was | :40:04. | :40:10. | |
the MSPs themselves. Having a system that was more open, greater | :40:11. | :40:16. | |
accountability, there can be some areas where you set the parameters | :40:17. | :40:19. | |
of what a public representative should have as their pay and | :40:20. | :40:23. | |
conditions. Within that, there can be independent bodies that make sure | :40:24. | :40:27. | |
it is fleeced, administered, and the crucial aspect is transparency. -- | :40:28. | :40:37. | |
policed. It is a week since the Autumn Statement at Westminster, for | :40:38. | :40:42. | |
very obvious reasons, over shadowed by what happened in South Africa. | :40:43. | :40:47. | |
One week later, does the Autumn Statement still look as though it | :40:48. | :40:51. | |
will get growth back to where it is needed? I hope so, and certainly | :40:52. | :40:54. | |
some of the measures will be positive for Scotland. One measure | :40:55. | :40:59. | |
that has not had the profile it deserves is getting rid of the | :41:00. | :41:01. | |
national insurance contribution for under 21. My own area in the | :41:02. | :41:08. | |
Borders, in the rural areas of Scotland, MPs will begin in support | :41:09. | :41:15. | |
to help young people. -- be given support. It means there is extra | :41:16. | :41:18. | |
money to the Scottish budget. That means there is pressure on the SNP | :41:19. | :41:22. | |
Government to make sure that they make a contribution, but as far as | :41:23. | :41:26. | |
supporting an economy that is starting to grow and the | :41:27. | :41:31. | |
contribution that Lib Dems have made for macroeconomic growth, it is | :41:32. | :41:35. | |
positive for Scotland. Angus MacNeil, is it going to get growth | :41:36. | :41:39. | |
back? The policies that have been followed by the Chancellor have | :41:40. | :41:44. | |
delayed growth. The economy is smaller than it was in 2010. Workers | :41:45. | :41:50. | |
are worst off. That is unprecedented. We have passenger | :41:51. | :41:56. | |
duty strangling growth in Scotland, it is a management tool for | :41:57. | :42:00. | |
Heathrow. The answers are not the answer is for Scotland, which is why | :42:01. | :42:06. | |
people will vote Yes and move powers to Scotland. Only then can we get | :42:07. | :42:09. | |
the right policies to fit the Scottish economy rather than being | :42:10. | :42:14. | |
with the asperity of George Osborne -- austerity. It is a fairly safe | :42:15. | :42:21. | |
bet that the 18th of September might, in conversation once or twice | :42:22. | :42:26. | |
in the coming year. From us, goodbye. | :42:27. | :42:32. | |
I am joined once again by Mike Wade. One final thought. MPs are cotton | :42:33. | :42:42. | |
between a rock and a hard place with their salary. -- caught. They have | :42:43. | :42:51. | |
outsourced it and nobody is happy. I cannot see any MP coming forward to | :42:52. | :42:54. | |
say that they deserve the rise. I think they should be fairly | :42:55. | :43:01. | |
well-paid. I think MPs land up about the same level of popularity with | :43:02. | :43:07. | |
journalists but I think they do an important job. The mistake was | :43:08. | :43:13. | |
perhaps not when the expenses scandal came up, which is really | :43:14. | :43:17. | |
tied with how cruelly paid they are, to land the boil. -- hourly paid -- | :43:18. | :43:29. | |
poorly. Scotland has separated the salaries, MSPs will have lower | :43:30. | :43:33. | |
salaries. That is probably for them, I suppose. Fair enough. Mike | :43:34. | :43:39. | |
Wade, thank you for your company. That is all we have time for this | :43:40. | :43:43. | |
week. We are back at the same time next week. 2:30pm on BBC Two. It | :43:44. | :43:49. | |
will be the final programme of the year. Thanks for your company. | :43:50. | :43:50. | |
Goodbye. | :43:51. | :43:52. |