06/03/2013 Politics Scotland

Hello and welcome to Politics Hello and welcome to Politics

Scotland. Coming up. Scotland. Coming up.

Scotland. Coming up. Scotland. Coming up.

It is a numbers' game today. New It is a numbers' game today. New

It is a numbers' game today. New figures are published showing that,

figures are published showing that, figures are published showing that,

last year, Scotland spent more than last year, Scotland spent more than

last year, Scotland spent more than it raised, but contributed more to

it raised, but contributed more to it raised, but contributed more to

it raised, but contributed more to the UK than we got back. We'll also

the UK than we got back. We'll also the UK than we got back. We'll also

the UK than we got back. We'll also be talking troop numbers as we take

be talking troop numbers as we take be talking troop numbers as we take

a live ministerial statement in a live ministerial statement in

a live ministerial statement in Holyrood after the news. Scotland

Holyrood after the news. Scotland Holyrood after the news. Scotland

will have fewer soldiers based here will have fewer soldiers based here

will have fewer soldiers based here than promised by the UK government.

than promised by the UK government. than promised by the UK government.

And here at Westminster, MPs too, And here at Westminster, MPs too,

And here at Westminster, MPs too, are considering what the future

are considering what the future are considering what the future

military footprint in Scotland will look like.

look like. look like.

This weighty tome has been This weighty tome has been

This weighty tome has been published today by the Scottish

published today by the Scottish published today by the Scottish

Government. It is essentially their Government. It is essentially their

Government. It is essentially their balance sheet, a snapshot of the

balance sheet, a snapshot of the nation's finances. It shows

nation's finances. It shows nation's finances. It shows

Scotland spent more than it raised Scotland spent more than it raised

Scotland spent more than it raised last year although the situation is

last year although the situation is last year although the situation is

last year although the situation is better than that in the rest of the

better than that in the rest of the better than that in the rest of the

UK. Our business and economics UK. Our business and economics

correspondent David Henderson has correspondent David Henderson has

correspondent David Henderson has been casting his eye over the

numbers. numbers.

numbers. How strong it is Scotland's economy

How strong it is Scotland's economy How strong it is Scotland's economy

How strong it is Scotland's economy and how would it a fair if Scotland

and how would it a fair if Scotland and how would it a fair if Scotland

was independent? New figures reveal was independent? New figures reveal

was independent? New figures reveal a mixed picture. According to

a mixed picture. According to official figures, they amount

official figures, they amount official figures, they amount

Scotland spent was more than it Scotland spent was more than it

Scotland spent was more than it Scotland spent was more than it

raised in revenue last year. It ran raised in revenue last year. It ran

raised in revenue last year. It ran raised in revenue last year. It ran

up a debt of �3.4 billion. Weather up a debt of �3.4 billion. Weather

up a debt of �3.4 billion. Weather up a debt of �3.4 billion. Weather

you take into account -- or when you take into account -- or when

you take into account -- or when you take into account Scotland's

you take into account Scotland's you take into account Scotland's

geographical share of North Sea oil geographical share of North Sea oil

geographical share of North Sea oil geographical share of North Sea oil

that a minus 82.3% of GDP. These that a minus 82.3% of GDP. These

that a minus 82.3% of GDP. These that a minus 82.3% of GDP. These

figures also show the amount of all figures also show the amount of all

figures also show the amount of all figures also show the amount of all

revenue from the North Sea or rose revenue from the North Sea or rose

revenue from the North Sea or rose revenue from the North Sea or rose

last year. The SNP says this is a last year. The SNP says this is a

last year. The SNP says this is a sign of the huge financial benefits

sign of the huge financial benefits sign of the huge financial benefits

oil would bring to an independent oil would bring to an independent

oil would bring to an independent Scotland. The UK Government says

Scotland. The UK Government says Scotland. The UK Government says

Scotland. The UK Government says that all prices are volatile. I am

that all prices are volatile. I am that all prices are volatile. I am

that all prices are volatile. I am now joined in the studio by our

now joined in the studio by our now joined in the studio by our

business and economy editor Douglas business and economy editor Douglas

Fraser, the economic commentator Fraser, the economic commentator

Fraser, the economic commentator and editor of the Scot-Buzz website.

and editor of the Scot-Buzz website. and editor of the Scot-Buzz website.

and editor of the Scot-Buzz website. We were hearing some of the figures

We were hearing some of the figures We were hearing some of the figures

from David. People arguing about from David. People arguing about

from David. People arguing about from David. People arguing about

what this does actually mean. what this does actually mean.

what this does actually mean. what this does actually mean.

best to start with why it matters. best to start with why it matters.

best to start with why it matters. best to start with why it matters.

best to start with why it matters. It is a we are showing -- it was

It is a we are showing -- it was It is a we are showing -- it was

aware of showing how dependent aware of showing how dependent

aware of showing how dependent Scotland was of the UK Government.

Scotland was of the UK Government. Scotland was of the UK Government.

Scotland was of the UK Government. Now it is more useful for the pro-

Now it is more useful for the pro- Now it is more useful for the pro-

independence parties. It has a lot independence parties. It has a lot

independence parties. It has a lot independence parties. It has a lot

to do from the revenue that comes to do from the revenue that comes

to do from the revenue that comes to do from the revenue that comes

from oil and gas. It is all right from oil and gas. It is all right

from oil and gas. It is all right from oil and gas. It is all right

to run a deficit. A 2.3% deficit is to run a deficit. A 2.3% deficit is

to run a deficit. A 2.3% deficit is to run a deficit. A 2.3% deficit is

a manageable amount. If you add him a manageable amount. If you add him

a manageable amount. If you add him a manageable amount. If you add him

capital spending, you get up to 5% capital spending, you get up to 5%

capital spending, you get up to 5% which looks rather less manageable.

which looks rather less manageable. which looks rather less manageable.

which looks rather less manageable. But look at how that compares with

But look at how that compares with But look at how that compares with

But look at how that compares with the UK. The UK was looking at

the UK. The UK was looking at the UK. The UK was looking at

almost 8% deficit. That is the almost 8% deficit. That is the

almost 8% deficit. That is the unmanageable bit of the public

unmanageable bit of the public unmanageable bit of the public

finances which is dominating our finances which is dominating our

finances which is dominating our finances. That is what George

finances. That is what George finances. That is what George

finances. That is what George Osborne has tried to bear down on.

Osborne has tried to bear down on. Osborne has tried to bear down on.

Osborne has tried to bear down on. He needs to go that below 3%.

He needs to go that below 3%. He needs to go that below 3%.

that Scottish figure, that is quite that Scottish figure, that is quite

that Scottish figure, that is quite positive news for John Swinney?

positive news for John Swinney? positive news for John Swinney?

think the whole document is very think the whole document is very

think the whole document is very supportive of the SNP's position

supportive of the SNP's position supportive of the SNP's position

and the case for independence. and the case for independence.

and the case for independence. and the case for independence.

There is no doubt that it shows the There is no doubt that it shows the

There is no doubt that it shows the absolute vital importance of North

absolute vital importance of North absolute vital importance of North

Sea oil revenue. However, when you Sea oil revenue. However, when you

Sea oil revenue. However, when you Sea oil revenue. However, when you

go into these figures, all sorts of go into these figures, all sorts of

go into these figures, all sorts of go into these figures, all sorts of

questions come up. The first is the questions come up. The first is the

questions come up. The first is the sustainability of these a North Sea

sustainability of these a North Sea sustainability of these a North Sea

oil revenues, they are very oil revenues, they are very

volatile. The fastest-growing area volatile. The fastest-growing area

in the Scottish government's in the Scottish government's

in the Scottish government's spending budget is health. -- is

spending budget is health. -- is spending budget is health. -- is

spending budget is health. -- is not health, or education, it is our

not health, or education, it is our not health, or education, it is our

not health, or education, it is our share of UK debt interest. That is

share of UK debt interest. That is share of UK debt interest. That is

share of UK debt interest. That is now up to four billion a year and

now up to four billion a year and now up to four billion a year and

rising. That is a problem at rising. That is a problem at

rising. That is a problem at servicing that debt. We are now

servicing that debt. We are now servicing that debt. We are now

spending more on servicing the debt spending more on servicing the debt

spending more on servicing the debt spending more on servicing the debt

in the UK than before the downturn. in the UK than before the downturn.

in the UK than before the downturn. The cost of servicing that debt,

The cost of servicing that debt, The cost of servicing that debt,

The cost of servicing that debt, even at low interest rates, is more

even at low interest rates, is more even at low interest rates, is more

even at low interest rates, is more than we are spending on defence. If

than we are spending on defence. If than we are spending on defence. If

interest rates go up, because we interest rates go up, because we

interest rates go up, because we interest rates go up, because we

never know what is going to happen, never know what is going to happen,

never know what is going to happen, never know what is going to happen,

we could find a horrible a squeeze we could find a horrible a squeeze

we could find a horrible a squeeze on public finances. It is very

on public finances. It is very on public finances. It is very

on public finances. It is very germane it to the SNP's advocacy of

germane it to the SNP's advocacy of germane it to the SNP's advocacy of

independence. We would have more independence. We would have more

borrowing powers in independence. borrowing powers in independence.

borrowing powers in independence. borrowing powers in independence.

We would be able to do more on We would be able to do more on

We would be able to do more on welfare spending or what ever. But

welfare spending or what ever. But welfare spending or what ever. But

that argument for more borrowing that argument for more borrowing

that argument for more borrowing that argument for more borrowing

powers, you have to cast that in powers, you have to cast that in

powers, you have to cast that in powers, you have to cast that in

the wider context of the amount of the wider context of the amount of

the wider context of the amount of debt interest that we already have

debt interest that we already have to service. Thank you.

to service. Thank you. to service. Thank you.

to service. Thank you. Later in the programme, we will be

Later in the programme, we will be Later in the programme, we will be

hearing from the Finance Secretary hearing from the Finance Secretary

hearing from the Finance Secretary John Swinney but first, let's get

John Swinney but first, let's get John Swinney but first, let's get

some more political reaction in the some more political reaction in the

some more political reaction in the Garden Lobby at Holyrood from the

Garden Lobby at Holyrood from the Scottish Conservative Murdo Fraser

Scottish Conservative Murdo Fraser Scottish Conservative Murdo Fraser

and for Scottish Labour, we have Rhoda Grant.

Rhoda Grant. Rhoda Grant.

Good afternoon. We were hearing in Good afternoon. We were hearing in

Good afternoon. We were hearing in our discussion at some fairly

our discussion at some fairly our discussion at some fairly

positive news for John Swinney. positive news for John Swinney.

positive news for John Swinney. shows that the deficit for the

shows that the deficit for the shows that the deficit for the

Scottish government is 7.6 billion. Scottish government is 7.6 billion.

Scottish government is 7.6 billion. Scottish government is 7.6 billion.

That is not good news in anyone's That is not good news in anyone's

That is not good news in anyone's books. The public spending per head

books. The public spending per head books. The public spending per head

books. The public spending per head is now �1,200 higher than it is in

is now �1,200 higher than it is in is now �1,200 higher than it is in

England and Wales. A substantial England and Wales. A substantial

England and Wales. A substantial gap that Scotland is benefiting

gap that Scotland is benefiting gap that Scotland is benefiting

gap that Scotland is benefiting from as part of the UK. Another

from as part of the UK. Another from as part of the UK. Another

document published, that was leaked, document published, that was leaked,

document published, that was leaked, it gives a more interesting figure

it gives a more interesting figure it gives a more interesting figure

and shows that on current and shows that on current

and shows that on current projections, by 2016, the year that

projections, by 2016, the year that Scotland would become independent

Scotland would become independent Scotland would become independent

if the SNP are successful, Scotland if the SNP are successful, Scotland

if the SNP are successful, Scotland if the SNP are successful, Scotland

would be in a much worse situation would be in a much worse situation

would be in a much worse situation would be in a much worse situation

because of a projected fall in oil because of a projected fall in oil

because of a projected fall in oil revenues. The SNP know this but

revenues. The SNP know this but revenues. The SNP know this but

revenues. The SNP know this but they do not want to talk about it.

they do not want to talk about it. they do not want to talk about it.

That secret document showed the That secret document showed the

That secret document showed the volatility of oil revenues and a

volatility of oil revenues and a volatility of oil revenues and a

labour are pointing that out today. labour are pointing that out today.

labour are pointing that out today. We are very fortunate in Scotland

We are very fortunate in Scotland We are very fortunate in Scotland

to have that oil on stream to have that oil on stream

to have that oil on stream providing a rich resource. Indeed,

providing a rich resource. Indeed, providing a rich resource. Indeed,

providing a rich resource. Indeed, it is a good resource. But we heard

it is a good resource. But we heard it is a good resource. But we heard

it is a good resource. But we heard last week that you cannot use and

last week that you cannot use and last week that you cannot use and

natural resources to prop up your natural resources to prop up your

natural resources to prop up your natural resources to prop up your

revenue funding. We need to use it revenue funding. We need to use it

revenue funding. We need to use it revenue funding. We need to use it

to create for the wealth. To use it to create for the wealth. To use it

to create for the wealth. To use it to create for the wealth. To use it

as part of your date today spending as part of your date today spending

as part of your date today spending as part of your date today spending

would be a mistake. That is what would be a mistake. That is what

would be a mistake. That is what would be a mistake. That is what

the SNP want to do, they want to the SNP want to do, they want to

the SNP want to do, they want to the SNP want to do, they want to

have an oil fund for the future. have an oil fund for the future.

have an oil fund for the future. have an oil fund for the future.

When oil came on tap in the 1970s When oil came on tap in the 1970s

When oil came on tap in the 1970s and 1980s, Margaret Thatcher never

and 1980s, Margaret Thatcher never and 1980s, Margaret Thatcher never

created an oil fund. You cannot created an oil fund. You cannot

created an oil fund. You cannot created an oil fund. You cannot

have an oil fund at the same time have an oil fund at the same time

have an oil fund at the same time have an oil fund at the same time

as you are using oil money to fill as you are using oil money to fill

as you are using oil money to fill the gap in your revenue accounts.

the gap in your revenue accounts. the gap in your revenue accounts.

the gap in your revenue accounts. What is clear from the figures is

What is clear from the figures is What is clear from the figures is

What is clear from the figures is are you only get to the fiscal

are you only get to the fiscal are you only get to the fiscal

position Scotland is in by using position Scotland is in by using

position Scotland is in by using oil revenues in the current account.

oil revenues in the current account. oil revenues in the current account.

Projecting ahead to 2016, we would Projecting ahead to 2016, we would

Projecting ahead to 2016, we would Projecting ahead to 2016, we would

not be in equivalent -- in an not be in equivalent -- in an

not be in equivalent -- in an equivalent situation in the UK.

equivalent situation in the UK. equivalent situation in the UK.

have to accept that these figures have to accept that these figures

have to accept that these figures have to accept that these figures

show that Scotland does seem to be show that Scotland does seem to be

show that Scotland does seem to be show that Scotland does seem to be

in a better position than the rest in a better position than the rest

in a better position than the rest in a better position than the rest

in a better position than the rest of the UK as a whole. I do not

of the UK as a whole. I do not of the UK as a whole. I do not

of the UK as a whole. I do not believe we are in a better position.

believe we are in a better position. believe we are in a better position.

believe we are in a better position. We get more funding from the United

We get more funding from the United We get more funding from the United

Kingdom to make more of our Kingdom to make more of our

geographical despair -- a geographical despair -- a

geographical despair -- a geographical set-up. Thank you both

very much. very much.

very much. There has been a last-minute change

There has been a last-minute change There has been a last-minute change

of business in the chamber today. of business in the chamber today.

of business in the chamber today. The Labour health debate has been

The Labour health debate has been The Labour health debate has been

The Labour health debate has been moved and will later on to make way

moved and will later on to make way for a Scottish government

for a Scottish government for a Scottish government

ministerial statement on the Armed ministerial statement on the Armed

ministerial statement on the Armed Forces review which was announced

Forces review which was announced Forces review which was announced

Forces review which was announced yesterday. We can cross now to the

yesterday. We can cross now to the yesterday. We can cross now to the

chamber and join our political chamber and join our political

chamber and join our political editor Brian Taylor on commentary.

editor Brian Taylor on commentary. editor Brian Taylor on commentary.

John Swinney is answering questions John Swinney is answering questions

That statement was a betrayal of That statement was a betrayal of

That statement was a betrayal of Scotland and her communities. I was

Scotland and her communities. I was Scotland and her communities. I was

Scotland and her communities. I was set out why that is the case and

set out why that is the case and set out why that is the case and

what the Scottish government plans what the Scottish government plans

what the Scottish government plans to do. The Scottish government

to do. The Scottish government to do. The Scottish government

fully recognises and volleyers at fully recognises and volleyers at

fully recognises and volleyers at the vital part that the Armed

the vital part that the Armed the vital part that the Armed

the vital part that the Armed Forces and those who serve in them

Forces and those who serve in them Forces and those who serve in them

Forces and those who serve in them give it to the life of our nation.

give it to the life of our nation. That contribution cannot be

That contribution cannot be That contribution cannot be

sustained in isolation and must be sustained in isolation and must be

sustained in isolation and must be supported by a wider society.

supported by a wider society. Yesterday's announcement came 18

Yesterday's announcement came 18 Yesterday's announcement came 18

months after at the then Secretary months after at the then Secretary

months after at the then Secretary of Defence -- Secretary of State

of Defence -- Secretary of State of Defence -- Secretary of State

for Defence have made a statement for Defence have made a statement

for Defence have made a statement about military bases. There was a

about military bases. There was a cross-party consensus and

cross-party consensus and cross-party consensus and

submissions from all the main submissions from all the main

submissions from all the main parties in the Scottish Parliament.

parties in the Scottish Parliament. parties in the Scottish Parliament.

The Emans one them included some The Emans one them included some

severe disappointment including a severe disappointment including a

severe disappointment including a cessation of RAF activities are

cessation of RAF activities are cessation of RAF activities are

rehearsed. -- at Leuchers. That rehearsed. -- at Leuchers. That

rehearsed. -- at Leuchers. That disappointment was mitigated by the

disappointment was mitigated by the disappointment was mitigated by the

promise that troops would come from promise that troops would come from

promise that troops would come from Geminid to Scotland. -- from

Geminid to Scotland. -- from Germany. Philip Hammond's betrayal

Germany. Philip Hammond's betrayal Germany. Philip Hammond's betrayal

of that promise is a disgrace. of that promise is a disgrace.

Following Liam Fox's announcement, Following Liam Fox's announcement,

Following Liam Fox's announcement, we committed to working positively

we committed to working positively we committed to working positively

with the Ministry of Defence to with the Ministry of Defence to

with the Ministry of Defence to make their changes work. Officials

make their changes work. Officials make their changes work. Officials

from the Scottish government have from the Scottish government have

from the Scottish government have committed fully to the Ministry of

committed fully to the Ministry of Defence and its infrastructure

Defence and its infrastructure administration at every opportunity.

administration at every opportunity. Various ministers including the

Various ministers including the Various ministers including the

First Minister, the Deputy First First Minister, the Deputy First

Minister and myself have Minister and myself have

underscored that commitment in underscored that commitment in

underscored that commitment in writing and in meetings 18 times

writing and in meetings 18 times writing and in meetings 18 times

with UK ministers. We have been with UK ministers. We have been

supportive of local communities supportive of local communities

supportive of local communities involved. The time that it has

involved. The time that it has involved. The time that it has

taken to work through this taken to work through this

taken to work through this taken to work through this

programme has has led to a great programme has has led to a great

programme has has led to a great deal of uncertainty and anxiety in

deal of uncertainty and anxiety in those communities around Scotland.

those communities around Scotland. those communities around Scotland.

those communities around Scotland. Now at last that arise when has

Now at last that arise when has Now at last that arise when has

come. It is deeply disappointing come. It is deeply disappointing

come. It is deeply disappointing come. It is deeply disappointing

given the amount of work we put given the amount of work we put

given the amount of work we put into trying to make this process

into trying to make this process into trying to make this process

work for Scotland. Liam Fox have work for Scotland. Liam Fox have

work for Scotland. Liam Fox have talked of 7000 troops coming to

talked of 7000 troops coming to talked of 7000 troops coming to

talked of 7000 troops coming to Scotland. But now we have a figure

Scotland. But now we have a figure Scotland. But now we have a figure

of only 600. That suggests that of only 600. That suggests that

numbers, if correctness are numbers, if correctness are

numbers, if correctness are delivered, will be just over 12,500.

delivered, will be just over 12,500. delivered, will be just over 12,500.

That ignores the fact that Scotland That ignores the fact that Scotland

has already seen disproportionate has already seen disproportionate

has already seen disproportionate cuts in its defence footprint which

cuts in its defence footprint which cuts in its defence footprint which

cuts in its defence footprint which has fallen by more than a third.

has fallen by more than a third. has fallen by more than a third.

has fallen by more than a third. Across the whole of the UK, the

Across the whole of the UK, the Across the whole of the UK, the

decline has been one-fifth. The decline has been one-fifth. The

decline has been one-fifth. The announcement of by Phil Hammond

announcement of by Phil Hammond yesterday... Liam Fox's

yesterday... Liam Fox's announcement included Scotland

announcement included Scotland announcement included Scotland

announcement included Scotland becoming only to one of the five

becoming only to one of the five multi-role brigades. Philip --

multi-role brigades. Philip -- multi-role brigades. Philip --

Philip Hammond has downgraded that. Philip Hammond has downgraded that.

Philip Hammond has downgraded that. Philip Hammond has downgraded that.

We still need clarity from him and We still need clarity from him and

We still need clarity from him and from the Ministry of Defence on

from the Ministry of Defence on from the Ministry of Defence on

what the roles and functions will what the roles and functions will

what the roles and functions will what the roles and functions will

be of the elements that that will be of the elements that that will

be of the elements that that will be located here. There was no

be located here. There was no mention of his predecessor's

mention of his predecessor's commitment of exploring the

commitment of exploring the possibility of additional training

possibility of additional training possibility of additional training

estates in Scotland. It has been estates in Scotland. It has been

estates in Scotland. It has been ditched by Philip Hammond. I

ditched by Philip Hammond. I mentioned the overall military

mentioned the overall military mentioned the overall military

mentioned the overall military footprints, but it is at a local

footprints, but it is at a local footprints, but it is at a local

level that these changes will have level that these changes will have

level that these changes will have an impact. I do welcome the

an impact. I do welcome the an impact. I do welcome the

complete about-turn at that the UK complete about-turn at that the UK

complete about-turn at that the UK Government has made regarding the

Government has made regarding the Government has made regarding the

Royal Marines at Arbroath. But for Royal Marines at Arbroath. But for

Royal Marines at Arbroath. But for much of the country, there is

much of the country, there is much of the country, there is

The numbers at RAF liquors will be The numbers at RAF liquors will be

The numbers at RAF liquors will be replaced, but not the numbers which

replaced, but not the numbers which replaced, but not the numbers which

were talked about. -- Leuchars. It were talked about. -- Leuchars. It

were talked about. -- Leuchars. It is disappointment that there has

is disappointment that there has is disappointment that there has

been confirmation that no army been confirmation that no army

been confirmation that no army been confirmation that no army

units will be based at the current units will be based at the current

units will be based at the current Royal Navy facility. In Edinburgh,

Royal Navy facility. In Edinburgh, Royal Navy facility. In Edinburgh,

we have confirmation that Dreghorn we have confirmation that Dreghorn

we have confirmation that Dreghorn will remain, but Craigie Hall will

will remain, but Craigie Hall will will remain, but Craigie Hall will

will remain, but Craigie Hall will close. We also know that the site

close. We also know that the site close. We also know that the site

on the outskirts of Edinburgh will on the outskirts of Edinburgh will

on the outskirts of Edinburgh will on the outskirts of Edinburgh will

not be developed. The MoD must work not be developed. The MoD must work

not be developed. The MoD must work immediately and closely with us and

immediately and closely with us and immediately and closely with us and

the City of Edinburgh Council to the City of Edinburgh Council to

the City of Edinburgh Council to make sure it is handled properly.

make sure it is handled properly. make sure it is handled properly.

In setting out the numbers In setting out the numbers

associated... Similar questions associated... Similar questions

associated... Similar questions arise in other areas. In Stirling,

arise in other areas. In Stirling, arise in other areas. In Stirling,

clarity is needed on the partial clarity is needed on the partial

clarity is needed on the partial disposal of the site. At Kinloss,

disposal of the site. At Kinloss, disposal of the site. At Kinloss,

disposal of the site. At Kinloss, we are led to believe there will be

we are led to believe there will be we are led to believe there will be

a small increase in numbers, but a small increase in numbers, but

a small increase in numbers, but that will not bring the army

that will not bring the army that will not bring the army

presence to anywhere near the presence to anywhere near the

presence to anywhere near the levels of the RAF personnel

levels of the RAF personnel levels of the RAF personnel

levels of the RAF personnel previously. I have set out some of

previously. I have set out some of previously. I have set out some of

the unanswered questions. The fact the unanswered questions. The fact

the unanswered questions. The fact that so many questions remain is

that so many questions remain is that so many questions remain is

partly due to the remarkable fact partly due to the remarkable fact

partly due to the remarkable fact partly due to the remarkable fact

that the UK ministers have not made that the UK ministers have not made

that the UK ministers have not made any contact with Scottish ministers

any contact with Scottish ministers any contact with Scottish ministers

in connection with the announcement. in connection with the announcement.

in connection with the announcement. in connection with the announcement.

This is despite the fact that an This is despite the fact that an

This is despite the fact that an MoD minister found time to stroll

MoD minister found time to stroll MoD minister found time to stroll

on the Esplanade at Edinburgh on the Esplanade at Edinburgh

on the Esplanade at Edinburgh Castle yesterday to brief the media.

Castle yesterday to brief the media. Castle yesterday to brief the media.

We also understand through local We also understand through local

We also understand through local authorities that they have had

authorities that they have had authorities that they have had

written communication. We have no written communication. We have no

written communication. We have no detail on timing and numbers in

detail on timing and numbers in detail on timing and numbers in

relation to changes from the other relation to changes from the other

relation to changes from the other services beyond the army. Those are

services beyond the army. Those are services beyond the army. Those are

also required by the local also required by the local

also required by the local authorities and by asked. That is

authorities and by asked. That is authorities and by asked. That is

unacceptable. It does not need to unacceptable. It does not need to

unacceptable. It does not need to be this way. This parliament is

be this way. This parliament is be this way. This parliament is

capable of taking decisions about capable of taking decisions about

capable of taking decisions about defence in the best interests of

defence in the best interests of defence in the best interests of

the people and communities. Given the people and communities. Given

the people and communities. Given the people and communities. Given

the many years of draconian cuts to the many years of draconian cuts to

Scotland to's defence Footprint, Scotland to's defence Footprint,

Scotland to's defence Footprint, how can anyone disagree with a

how can anyone disagree with a simple demographic proposition? We

simple demographic proposition? We simple demographic proposition? We

can afford conventional forces of can afford conventional forces of

can afford conventional forces of can afford conventional forces of

our own, and the SNP set out that our own, and the SNP set out that

our own, and the SNP set out that we would have 15,000 personnel

we would have 15,000 personnel we would have 15,000 personnel

supported by a �2.5 billion budget. supported by a �2.5 billion budget.

supported by a �2.5 billion budget. By way of comparison, in 2010,

By way of comparison, in 2010, By way of comparison, in 2010,

Finland spent �2.3 billion on Finland spent �2.3 billion on

Finland spent �2.3 billion on Finland spent �2.3 billion on

defence, and Denmark to 0.8 bn. No defence, and Denmark to 0.8 bn. No

defence, and Denmark to 0.8 bn. No one suggests that countries such as

one suggests that countries such as one suggests that countries such as

these do not take their defence these do not take their defence

these do not take their defence seriously. We would not be spending

seriously. We would not be spending seriously. We would not be spending

money on Trident, weapons of mass money on Trident, weapons of mass

money on Trident, weapons of mass destruction and our showers. --

destruction and our showers. -- destruction and our showers. --

shores. In conclusion, we will shores. In conclusion, we will

continue to support local continue to support local

authorities, communities and other authorities, communities and other

authorities, communities and other partners, and writing to them to

partners, and writing to them to partners, and writing to them to

offer support. I have spoken to offer support. I have spoken to

offer support. I have spoken to senior personnel to convince them

senior personnel to convince them senior personnel to convince them

that we will provide that support that we will provide that support

that we will provide that support in the future. The UK government

in the future. The UK government in the future. The UK government

must now confirm numbers associated must now confirm numbers associated

must now confirm numbers associated must now confirm numbers associated

with each of the units that they with each of the units that they

with each of the units that they have said will be located in

have said will be located in have said will be located in

different parts of the country. different parts of the country.

different parts of the country. Since September we have been

Since September we have been Since September we have been

pressing the UK government for pressing the UK government for

pressing the UK government for baseline information to enable us

baseline information to enable us baseline information to enable us

and local partners to understand and local partners to understand

and local partners to understand and local partners to understand

the impact of the changes and we the impact of the changes and we

the impact of the changes and we the impact of the changes and we

will continue to do pant -- demand will continue to do pant -- demand

will continue to do pant -- demand the release of that information to

the release of that information to the release of that information to

let us work with local authorities, let us work with local authorities,

let us work with local authorities, communities and other partners to

communities and other partners to communities and other partners to

communities and other partners to help us plan fully and mitigate the

help us plan fully and mitigate the help us plan fully and mitigate the

economic consequences of the UK economic consequences of the UK

government decisions. Once again, government decisions. Once again,

government decisions. Once again, government decisions. Once again,

Scotland has been let down by UK Scotland has been let down by UK

government's and their poorly government's and their poorly

government's and their poorly handled decisions. Some members of

handled decisions. Some members of handled decisions. Some members of

this chamber will remember debates this chamber will remember debates

this chamber will remember debates this chamber will remember debates

when it was a Labour UK government when it was a Labour UK government

whose proposals for regimental whose proposals for regimental

whose proposals for regimental amalgamation. There has been a

amalgamation. There has been a long-term decline in Scotland's

long-term decline in Scotland's military footprint. Democracy is

military footprint. Democracy is military footprint. Democracy is

about choosing. People in Scotland about choosing. People in Scotland

about choosing. People in Scotland about choosing. People in Scotland

will choose to vote Yes in the He is a former serving Marine

He is a former serving Marine He is a former serving Marine

himself. Now we are getting himself. Now we are getting

questions... The Presiding Officer questions... The Presiding Officer

questions... The Presiding Officer is reminded people that time must

hate. hate.

-- time is tight. -- time is tight.

-- time is tight. -- time is tight.

We have seen a reduction in the We have seen a reduction in the

We have seen a reduction in the number of armed forces personnel

number of armed forces personnel number of armed forces personnel

coming to Scotland. What clarity coming to Scotland. What clarity

coming to Scotland. What clarity come the Scottish Government go on

come the Scottish Government go on come the Scottish Government go on

come the Scottish Government go on the future of armed forces in an

the future of armed forces in an independent Scotland, and in

independent Scotland, and in independent Scotland, and in

civilian jobs associated with that, civilian jobs associated with that,

civilian jobs associated with that, since figures today show that

since figures today show that since figures today show that

overall spend as �1,197 higher per overall spend as �1,197 higher per

overall spend as �1,197 higher per overall spend as �1,197 higher per

head than the rest of the UK. head than the rest of the UK.

head than the rest of the UK. head than the rest of the UK.

we keep to the issues and the statement.

statement. statement.

statement. 5th it says, I have made clear to

5th it says, I have made clear to 5th it says, I have made clear to

the defence were extreme that a the defence were extreme that a

the defence were extreme that a much lower budget must be assumed,

much lower budget must be assumed, much lower budget must be assumed,

so despite the public rhetoric, can so despite the public rhetoric, can

so despite the public rhetoric, can he give a categorical assurance

he give a categorical assurance he give a categorical assurance

he give a categorical assurance that the Budget will not be subject

that the Budget will not be subject that the Budget will not be subject

that the Budget will not be subject to the savage cuts in the lead

to the savage cuts in the lead document. Does the Scottish

document. Does the Scottish Government expect special forces

Government expect special forces personnel to automatically

personnel to automatically transferred to Scottish armed

transferred to Scottish armed transferred to Scottish armed

forces, some some have expressed forces, some some have expressed

reservations about the deployment, reservations about the deployment,

specialist training and promotion specialist training and promotion

specialist training and promotion opportunities available to them. If

opportunities available to them. If opportunities available to them. If

there is no significant runs there there is no significant runs there

there is no significant runs there have special forces personnel to a

have special forces personnel to a have special forces personnel to a

Scottish defence force, how long Scottish defence force, how long

Scottish defence force, how long does he anticipated would take to

does he anticipated would take to does he anticipated would take to

recruit and train as special forces recruit and train as special forces

recruit and train as special forces recruit and train as special forces

unit, and how long would key assets unit, and how long would key assets

unit, and how long would key assets be left vulnerable as a result?

be left vulnerable as a result? be left vulnerable as a result?

be left vulnerable as a result? For the statement was about the UK

For the statement was about the UK Government's statements. I was

Government's statements. I was Government's statements. I was

Government's statements. I was trying to deal with some of those

trying to deal with some of those complications and implications of

complications and implications of complications and implications of

that. Order! We will not have that. Order! We will not have

that. Order! We will not have shouted across the chain were.

shouted across the chain were. shouted across the chain were.

first point was about clarity, and first point was about clarity, and

first point was about clarity, and things are becoming clear. He was

things are becoming clear. He was things are becoming clear. He was

trying to divide a human shield. trying to divide a human shield.

trying to divide a human shield. The commitment from the Labour

The commitment from the Labour The commitment from the Labour

Party, they will commit billions of Party, they will commit billions of

pounds towards nuclear weapons, pounds towards nuclear weapons,

pounds towards nuclear weapons, rather than the equipment that the

rather than the equipment that the rather than the equipment that the

rather than the equipment that the forces need. It used to be the case

forces need. It used to be the case forces need. It used to be the case

forces need. It used to be the case that in the 1980s there was a

that in the 1980s there was a that in the 1980s there was a

statement by someone called Paul statement by someone called Paul

statement by someone called Paul Weller, who says the kidney

Weller, who says the kidney Weller, who says the kidney

machines pay for rockets and guns. machines pay for rockets and guns.

machines pay for rockets and guns. machines pay for rockets and guns.

It is the bedroom tax that is going It is the bedroom tax that is going

It is the bedroom tax that is going to pay for nuclear bombs. The

to pay for nuclear bombs. The to pay for nuclear bombs. The

Labour Party are committing to �2.5 Labour Party are committing to �2.5

Labour Party are committing to �2.5 billion... Order!�2.5 billion, I

billion... Order!�2.5 billion, I billion... Order!�2.5 billion, I

said that in a statement, towards said that in a statement, towards

said that in a statement, towards defence forces, can injured and

defence forces, can injured and defence forces, can injured and

with other -- commensurate with with other -- commensurate with

with other -- commensurate with other countries of a similar size.

other countries of a similar size. other countries of a similar size.

other countries of a similar size. Can I thank the Minister. Can I

Can I thank the Minister. Can I Can I thank the Minister. Can I

also take the opportunity to also take the opportunity to

also take the opportunity to welcome the increase in the true

welcome the increase in the true welcome the increase in the true

numbers north of the border numbers north of the border

numbers north of the border announced yesterday. Having a well-

announced yesterday. Having a well- equipped, highly trained and

equipped, highly trained and motivated army presence makes

motivated army presence makes motivated army presence makes

Scotland a safer place. However the Scotland a safer place. However the

Scotland a safer place. However the Minister cannot be more on the

Minister cannot be more on the Minister cannot be more on the

number of trips coming to Scotland number of trips coming to Scotland

number of trips coming to Scotland number of trips coming to Scotland

when the effect of a vote for when the effect of a vote for

when the effect of a vote for separation in 2014 would be two

separation in 2014 would be two seeded British army withdraw

seeded British army withdraw seeded British army withdraw

altogether. -- the number of troops altogether. -- the number of troops

altogether. -- the number of troops coming to Scotland. He is opposing

coming to Scotland. He is opposing coming to Scotland. He is opposing

the Duke of others on his the Duke of others on his

the Duke of others on his backbenches who have committed that

backbenches who have committed that backbenches who have committed that

money will be committed to welfare money will be committed to welfare

money will be committed to welfare money will be committed to welfare

or any one of a dozen other or any one of a dozen other

or any one of a dozen other fleeting priorities. The truth is

fleeting priorities. The truth is fleeting priorities. The truth is

that this Government does not that this Government does not

that this Government does not understand defence. Can we have a

understand defence. Can we have a understand defence. Can we have a

question? Why does this anti combat question? Why does this anti combat

question? Why does this anti combat government want more trips but does

government want more trips but does government want more trips but does

not want them to be deployed not want them to be deployed

not want them to be deployed not want them to be deployed

anywhere? Above all, can I ask the anywhere? Above all, can I ask the

anywhere? Above all, can I ask the anywhere? Above all, can I ask the

Minister if he will commit to set Minister if he will commit to set

Minister if he will commit to set Minister if he will commit to set

out clearly in detail the fact some out clearly in detail the fact some

out clearly in detail the fact some the costs associated with his

the costs associated with his Government's defence policy? Order!

Government's defence policy? Order! Government's defence policy? Order!

Government's defence policy? Order! Can I remind everyone that this is

Can I remind everyone that this is a serious subject. Many

a serious subject. Many a serious subject. Many

constituents are a involved in this constituents are a involved in this

constituents are a involved in this constituents are a involved in this

constituents are a involved in this or harmed by this, so can I ask the

or harmed by this, so can I ask the or harmed by this, so can I ask the

chamber to come down and deal with chamber to come down and deal with

chamber to come down and deal with chamber to come down and deal with

the serious issues. I have set out the serious issues. I have set out

the serious issues. I have set out the serious issues. I have set out

the level of finance the SNP would the level of finance the SNP would

the level of finance the SNP would give to defence, commensurate with

give to defence, commensurate with give to defence, commensurate with

other countries of this size. He other countries of this size. He

other countries of this size. He welcomed the announcement by the UK

welcomed the announcement by the UK welcomed the announcement by the UK

government. It would be interesting government. It would be interesting

government. It would be interesting to listen to barrack rooms around

to listen to barrack rooms around to listen to barrack rooms around

the country to see what the the country to see what the

the country to see what the squaddies think, as they are being

squaddies think, as they are being squaddies think, as they are being

squaddies think, as they are being shuffled around. It is not just us,

shuffled around. It is not just us, shuffled around. It is not just us,

look at some of the newspapers, look at some of the newspapers,

look at some of the newspapers, newspapers not noted for the

newspapers not noted for the newspapers not noted for the

support of this government. They support of this government. They

support of this government. They support of this government. They

talk about a betrayal of troops in talk about a betrayal of troops in

talk about a betrayal of troops in Scotland. A few hundred more people

Scotland. A few hundred more people Scotland. A few hundred more people

playing musical chairs around the playing musical chairs around the

playing musical chairs around the playing musical chairs around the

barracks, it is hard to escape the barracks, it is hard to escape the

barracks, it is hard to escape the conclusion that the Tory government

conclusion that the Tory government conclusion that the Tory government

was simply plucking numbers out of was simply plucking numbers out of

was simply plucking numbers out of was simply plucking numbers out of

the year to stave off the flak. It the year to stave off the flak. It

the year to stave off the flak. It the year to stave off the flak. It

ends by saying, it is alive. There ends by saying, it is alive. There

ends by saying, it is alive. There ends by saying, it is alive. There

ends by saying, it is alive. There is no defence. -- a lie. It is a

is no defence. -- a lie. It is a is no defence. -- a lie. It is a

betrayal of many promises made by betrayal of many promises made by

betrayal of many promises made by his own former defence minister. We

his own former defence minister. We his own former defence minister. We

his own former defence minister. We now have to see how we can mitigate

now have to see how we can mitigate the impact of it.

the impact of it. the impact of it.

It is disappointing that the UK It is disappointing that the UK

It is disappointing that the UK It is disappointing that the UK

Government has failed to us -- to Government has failed to us -- to

Government has failed to us -- to provide the Scottish Government of

provide the Scottish Government of provide the Scottish Government of

details of numbers of troops coming details of numbers of troops coming

details of numbers of troops coming details of numbers of troops coming

to Fife. It is estimated it will be to Fife. It is estimated it will be

to Fife. It is estimated it will be to Fife. It is estimated it will be

4,000 less than Liam Fox said in 4,000 less than Liam Fox said in

4,000 less than Liam Fox said in 2011, and 3,000 less than RAF

2011, and 3,000 less than RAF 2011, and 3,000 less than RAF

numbers at that time. This will numbers at that time. This will

numbers at that time. This will have a big impact in my

have a big impact in my constituency. I constituents are

constituency. I constituents are constituency. I constituents are

disappointed. Does he agree with me disappointed. Does he agree with me

disappointed. Does he agree with me that rather than representing this

that rather than representing this that rather than representing this

that rather than representing this as a dividend, it is more like and

as a dividend, it is more like and as a dividend, it is more like and

as a dividend, it is more like and as a dividend, it is more like and

I owe you? -- an IOU. No one is I owe you? -- an IOU. No one is

I owe you? -- an IOU. No one is I owe you? -- an IOU. No one is

going to be duped by what has been going to be duped by what has been

going to be duped by what has been announced by the Government. I

announced by the Government. I announced by the Government. I

visited the bass recently, to see visited the bass recently, to see

visited the bass recently, to see visited the bass recently, to see

some of the issues faced by the some of the issues faced by the

some of the issues faced by the some of the issues faced by the

personnel. There is a lot we can do personnel. There is a lot we can do

personnel. There is a lot we can do it in the Scottish government to

it in the Scottish government to it in the Scottish government to

help the process take place, but help the process take place, but

help the process take place, but help the process take place, but

there is no question of a feeling there is no question of a feeling

there is no question of a feeling of betrayal. For many years, there

of betrayal. For many years, there of betrayal. For many years, there

have been accusations from both have been accusations from both

have been accusations from both sides of this chamber, but Scotland

sides of this chamber, but Scotland sides of this chamber, but Scotland

would reduce their their bases, would reduce their their bases,

would reduce their their bases, would reduce their their bases,

would reduce their their bases, from to the to one in the space of

from to the to one in the space of from to the to one in the space of

from to the to one in the space of a year. -- from three to one. We

a year. -- from three to one. We a year. -- from three to one. We

a year. -- from three to one. We can work together to mitigate it as

can work together to mitigate it as can work together to mitigate it as

can work together to mitigate it as well as we can, but it would have

well as we can, but it would have well as we can, but it would have

well as we can, but it would have been better if the decision had a

been better if the decision had a been better if the decision had a

been better if the decision had a not be made. SNP proposals seem to

not be made. SNP proposals seem to not be made. SNP proposals seem to

not be made. SNP proposals seem to focus on leaving us with one of the

focus on leaving us with one of the focus on leaving us with one of the

smallest defence budgets in Europe, smallest defence budgets in Europe,

smallest defence budgets in Europe, at 2.5 billion. Even smaller than

at 2.5 billion. Even smaller than Denmark, and proportionately less

Denmark, and proportionately less Denmark, and proportionately less

than currently spent across the UK. than currently spent across the UK.

than currently spent across the UK. Does he seriously suggest that the

Does he seriously suggest that the Does he seriously suggest that the

capability gaps in an independent capability gaps in an independent

capability gaps in an independent Scotland can be fixed on the

cheap... The public will note that there was

The public will note that there was The public will note that there was

not one word of condemnation for not one word of condemnation for

the Conservative and Liberal the Conservative and Liberal

Government's announcement. Scotland Government's announcement. Scotland

Government's announcement. Scotland Committee's around �3.3 billion to

Committee's around �3.3 billion to Committee's around �3.3 billion to

the UK's defence expenditure, and the UK's defence expenditure, and

the UK's defence expenditure, and the UK's defence expenditure, and

get in return to �0.5 billion. What get in return to �0.5 billion. What

get in return to �0.5 billion. What get in return to �0.5 billion. What

could we do with the extra 800 could we do with the extra 800

could we do with the extra 800 million? -- �2.5 billion. Going

million? -- �2.5 billion. Going million? -- �2.5 billion. Going

back to previous point, the SNP back to previous point, the SNP

back to previous point, the SNP back to previous point, the SNP

does not want to commit troops to The biggest danger to the defence

The biggest danger to the defence of Scotland is Westminster

of Scotland is Westminster of Scotland is Westminster

politicians who choose to lavish politicians who choose to lavish

politicians who choose to lavish billions on its nuclear weapons

billions on its nuclear weapons billions on its nuclear weapons

while cutting defence personnel in while cutting defence personnel in

while cutting defence personnel in while cutting defence personnel in

Scotland. It is a very good point. Scotland. It is a very good point.

Scotland. It is a very good point. There are a number of military

There are a number of military There are a number of military

sources who say it is unsustainable sources who say it is unsustainable

sources who say it is unsustainable sources who say it is unsustainable

for the UK to have the current for the UK to have the current

for the UK to have the current for the UK to have the current

level of troops that they have as level of troops that they have as

level of troops that they have as well as having nuclear weapons.

well as having nuclear weapons. well as having nuclear weapons.

This is what is fantasy about This is what is fantasy about

This is what is fantasy about defence politics in the UK today.

defence politics in the UK today. defence politics in the UK today.

The Royal Scots, bizarrely, are The Royal Scots, bizarrely, are

The Royal Scots, bizarrely, are The Royal Scots, bizarrely, are

going to be moved to Belfast. As going to be moved to Belfast. As

going to be moved to Belfast. As part of the strength and uniqueness

part of the strength and uniqueness part of the strength and uniqueness

of these fighting Scots regiments, of these fighting Scots regiments,

of these fighting Scots regiments, between the oldest regiment in the

between the oldest regiment in the between the oldest regiment in the

between the oldest regiment in the British Army, the Royal Scots, is a

British Army, the Royal Scots, is a geographical -- its geographical

geographical -- its geographical geographical -- its geographical

recruiting base is Edinburgh and recruiting base is Edinburgh and

recruiting base is Edinburgh and the Lothians. That is the thinking

He admit any substantial or real He admit any substantial or real

He admit any substantial or real reference to the Royal Navy. Their

reference to the Royal Navy. Their reference to the Royal Navy. Their

reference to the Royal Navy. Their new HMS ambush to join the fleet on

new HMS ambush to join the fleet on new HMS ambush to join the fleet on

Monday. Does the Minister welcomed Monday. Does the Minister welcomed

Monday. Does the Minister welcomed Monday. Does the Minister welcomed

the decision to base all of the the decision to base all of the

UK's conventionally armed UK's conventionally armed

UK's conventionally armed UK's conventionally armed

submarines on the Clyde or not? submarines on the Clyde or not?

submarines on the Clyde or not? submarines on the Clyde or not?

did not mention that because it was did not mention that because it was

did not mention that because it was not mentioned in the statement by

not mentioned in the statement by not mentioned in the statement by

not mentioned in the statement by the UK Government to which I am

the UK Government to which I am the UK Government to which I am

responding here. There are no responding here. There are no

responding here. There are no combat ready units of the Royal

combat ready units of the Royal combat ready units of the Royal

combat ready units of the Royal Navy in a Scotland which is worth

Navy in a Scotland which is worth mentioning. There is something

mentioning. There is something mentioning. There is something

mentioning. There is something seriously wrong at the heart of UK

seriously wrong at the heart of UK seriously wrong at the heart of UK

defence policy and they do believe defence policy and they do believe

defence policy and they do believe defence policy and they do believe

that we can cope much better with that we can cope much better with

that we can cope much better with the questions better in Scotland.

the questions better in Scotland. the questions better in Scotland.

You are watching Politics Scotland You are watching Politics Scotland

You are watching Politics Scotland You are watching Politics Scotland

from the BBC. Still to come on the from the BBC. Still to come on the

from the BBC. Still to come on the programme. More money, or rather

programme. More money, or rather programme. More money, or rather

programme. More money, or rather programme. More money, or rather

the lack of it, is on the agenda at the lack of it, is on the agenda at

the lack of it, is on the agenda at PMQs. Bankers' bonuses and the

PMQs. Bankers' bonuses and the PMQs. Bankers' bonuses and the

bedroom tax. Labour launch a twin- bedroom tax. Labour launch a twin-

bedroom tax. Labour launch a twin- pronged attack on David Cameron.

pronged attack on David Cameron. pronged attack on David Cameron.

pronged attack on David Cameron. Now, let's go back to our top story

Now, let's go back to our top story Now, let's go back to our top story

Now, let's go back to our top story today - the release of the Scottish

today - the release of the Scottish Government's expenditure and

Government's expenditure and Government's expenditure and

revenue figures, in essence their revenue figures, in essence their

revenue figures, in essence their balance sheet. As promised earlier,

balance sheet. As promised earlier, balance sheet. As promised earlier,

balance sheet. As promised earlier, I am now joined by the Finance

I am now joined by the Finance I am now joined by the Finance

Secretary John Swinney. He's in the Secretary John Swinney. He's in the

Secretary John Swinney. He's in the Garden Lobby at Holyrood. Looking

Garden Lobby at Holyrood. Looking Garden Lobby at Holyrood. Looking

at these figures, some people have at these figures, some people have

at these figures, some people have at these figures, some people have

been saying it is pretty good news been saying it is pretty good news

been saying it is pretty good news been saying it is pretty good news

for you and you have been pointing for you and you have been pointing

for you and you have been pointing for you and you have been pointing

for you and you have been pointing out at �4 per person, we are in a

out at �4 per person, we are in a out at �4 per person, we are in a

good position? The figures speak good position? The figures speak

for themselves. They demonstrate for themselves. They demonstrate

for themselves. They demonstrate that Scotland contributes a 9.9% of

that Scotland contributes a 9.9% of that Scotland contributes a 9.9% of

that Scotland contributes a 9.9% of UK revenue and receive back 9.3% of

UK revenue and receive back 9.3% of UK expenditure. That demonstrate

UK expenditure. That demonstrate UK expenditure. That demonstrate

that Scotland contributes more into that Scotland contributes more into

that Scotland contributes more into that Scotland contributes more into

the United Kingdom than we get back the United Kingdom than we get back

the United Kingdom than we get back the United Kingdom than we get back

in return. That figure lies at the in return. That figure lies at the

heart of this independent heart of this independent

statistical analysis published statistical analysis published

today. It demonstrates that today. It demonstrates that

today. It demonstrates that Scotland is a very strong financial

Scotland is a very strong financial Scotland is a very strong financial

community, public finances are in community, public finances are in

community, public finances are in better condition than the public

better condition than the public better condition than the public

better condition than the public finances of the rest of the United

finances of the rest of the United finances of the rest of the United

Kingdom, and it creates a very Kingdom, and it creates a very

Kingdom, and it creates a very strong platform for Scotland to

strong platform for Scotland to strong platform for Scotland to

move to independence. When you look move to independence. When you look

move to independence. When you look at all that information put

at all that information put at all that information put

together, we contribute 9.9% of UK together, we contribute 9.9% of UK

together, we contribute 9.9% of UK together, we contribute 9.9% of UK

revenue and get back 9.3% of UK revenue and get back 9.3% of UK

taxation. Scotland is contributing taxation. Scotland is contributing

taxation. Scotland is contributing taxation. Scotland is contributing

more to the United Kingdom than be more to the United Kingdom than be

more to the United Kingdom than be more to the United Kingdom than be

get back in return. That takes into get back in return. That takes into

get back in return. That takes into account all aspects of expenditure,

account all aspects of expenditure, account all aspects of expenditure,

the debt interest that we are the debt interest that we are

the debt interest that we are the debt interest that we are

having to pay, it takes in all the having to pay, it takes in all the

having to pay, it takes in all the revenue that is relevant. That is

revenue that is relevant. That is revenue that is relevant. That is

revenue that is relevant. That is the very clear and simple way of

the very clear and simple way of the very clear and simple way of

expressing the fact that Scotland expressing the fact that Scotland

expressing the fact that Scotland contributes more into the United

contributes more into the United contributes more into the United

contributes more into the United Kingdom than we get back in return.

Kingdom than we get back in return. Kingdom than we get back in return.

Kingdom than we get back in return. We heard in that debate that there

We heard in that debate that there We heard in that debate that there

is a leaked draft discussion is a leaked draft discussion

document which acknowledges greater document which acknowledges greater

document which acknowledges greater volatility in oil revenues in the

volatility in oil revenues in the volatility in oil revenues in the

future and Scotland depends on that future and Scotland depends on that

future and Scotland depends on that Orrell revenue. How would Scotland

Orrell revenue. How would Scotland Orrell revenue. How would Scotland

Orrell revenue. How would Scotland cope with that boiler to 80 --

cope with that boiler to 80 -- cope with that boiler to 80 --

volatility? They would not be as volatility? They would not be as

volatility? They would not be as significant to the Scottish economy

significant to the Scottish economy significant to the Scottish economy

as they are to the Norwegian as they are to the Norwegian

as they are to the Norwegian as they are to the Norwegian

economy. If any of us look at the economy. If any of us look at the

economy. If any of us look at the Norwegian economy today, we will

Norwegian economy today, we will Norwegian economy today, we will

see an economy whose public see an economy whose public

see an economy whose public finances are in a much better

finances are in a much better finances are in a much better

condition than the finances of this condition than the finances of this

condition than the finances of this condition than the finances of this

country. They have a fund for long- country. They have a fund for long-

country. They have a fund for long- term investment and stability to

term investment and stability to term investment and stability to

support the Norwegian economy and support the Norwegian economy and

Norwegian society. That Norwegian society. That

demonstrates exactly what is demonstrates exactly what is

demonstrates exactly what is possible to achieve if a country

possible to achieve if a country possible to achieve if a country

house great and significant natural house great and significant natural

house great and significant natural resources as Scotland does, but

resources as Scotland does, but resources as Scotland does, but

also their ability to take wiser also their ability to take wiser

also their ability to take wiser decisions to steward at those

decisions to steward at those resources. Westminster has managed

resources. Westminster has managed resources. Westminster has managed

to receive all these resources over to receive all these resources over

to receive all these resources over the years and has managed to

the years and has managed to the years and has managed to

the years and has managed to squander the oil and gas wealth of

squander the oil and gas wealth of squander the oil and gas wealth of

from Scotland. That leaked document from Scotland. That leaked document

from Scotland. That leaked document also points out that foreign

also points out that foreign also points out that foreign

revenue it is decreasing in the revenue it is decreasing in the

revenue it is decreasing in the future. The problem with the

future. The problem with the future. The problem with the

information you are referring to information you are referring to

information you are referring to information you are referring to

information you are referring to his it is out of date. But this is

his it is out of date. But this is long-term. There have been

long-term. There have been long-term. There have been

significant new finds in the North significant new finds in the North

significant new finds in the North Sea which addresses the point you

Sea which addresses the point you Sea which addresses the point you

Sea which addresses the point you are making. It is about the long

are making. It is about the long are making. It is about the long

are making. It is about the long term. Some of their deals which are

term. Some of their deals which are term. Some of their deals which are

being developed and are being being developed and are being

being developed and are being worked on -- oilfields that have

worked on -- oilfields that have worked on -- oilfields that have

been developed and are being worked been developed and are being worked

been developed and are being worked been developed and are being worked

on will have many years in front of on will have many years in front of

on will have many years in front of them. Yes, these arise would have

them. Yes, these arise would have them. Yes, these arise would have

come out since that paper was come out since that paper was

produced. They changed the produced. They changed the

produced. They changed the landscape of the argument. There is

landscape of the argument. There is landscape of the argument. There is

landscape of the argument. There is a longevity to the oil and gas

a longevity to the oil and gas a longevity to the oil and gas

a longevity to the oil and gas sector which is being denied by the

sector which is being denied by the Westminster government. The

Westminster government. The opportunity of the independence

opportunity of the independence opportunity of the independence

referendum gives people in Scotland referendum gives people in Scotland

referendum gives people in Scotland referendum gives people in Scotland

a chance to seek we will steward a chance to seek we will steward

a chance to seek we will steward these resources better. But we have

these resources better. But we have these resources better. But we have

these resources better. But we have a much oil fund and you will have

a much oil fund and you will have a much oil fund and you will have

a much oil fund and you will have to cream off some of that money to

to cream off some of that money to to cream off some of that money to

to cream off some of that money to put into the fund which will mean

put into the fund which will mean put into the fund which will mean

cuts in public spending. That cuts in public spending. That

cuts in public spending. That ignores the opportunity to grow the

ignores the opportunity to grow the ignores the opportunity to grow the

Scottish economy. I have been Scottish economy. I have been

Scottish economy. I have been interviewed for many years on the

interviewed for many years on the interviewed for many years on the

interviewed for many years on the fact that the UK Government has to

fact that the UK Government has to fact that the UK Government has to

have a growth rather than an have a growth rather than an

have a growth rather than an austerity strategy. We do not

austerity strategy. We do not austerity strategy. We do not

believe him the economics of believe him the economics of

believe him the economics of austerity. We believe in expanding

austerity. We believe in expanding austerity. We believe in expanding

the economy by investing in the economy by investing in

infrastructure and capital projects. infrastructure and capital projects.

infrastructure and capital projects. Ensuring we have the ability to

Ensuring we have the ability to Ensuring we have the ability to

grow and expand the economy. It grow and expand the economy. It

grow and expand the economy. It demonstrates that the prospects and

demonstrates that the prospects and demonstrates that the prospects and

the possibility of a long-term oil the possibility of a long-term oil

the possibility of a long-term oil and gas investment fund that could

and gas investment fund that could and gas investment fund that could

safeguard their economic future for safeguard their economic future for

safeguard their economic future for the people of Scotland is a

the people of Scotland is a practical and possible opportunity

practical and possible opportunity practical and possible opportunity

practical and possible opportunity and one that only arises out of

and one that only arises out of and one that only arises out of

independence. In that the debate independence. In that the debate

independence. In that the debate about defence bases in the Scotland,

about defence bases in the Scotland, about defence bases in the Scotland,

Mark Griffin was pointing out that Mark Griffin was pointing out that

Mark Griffin was pointing out that Mark Griffin was pointing out that

a much lower budget must be assumed. a much lower budget must be assumed.

a much lower budget must be assumed. The SNP say they are very

The SNP say they are very disappointed with the announcement,

disappointed with the announcement, disappointed with the announcement,

disappointed with the announcement, but you might want to have a big

but you might want to have a big but you might want to have a big

defence cut in an independent defence cut in an independent

Scotland. The UK Government Scotland. The UK Government

Scotland. The UK Government currently spends about �2 billion

currently spends about �2 billion currently spends about �2 billion

on defence in Scotland. The SNP on defence in Scotland. The SNP

on defence in Scotland. The SNP government wants to spend about

government wants to spend about government wants to spend about

�2.5 billion. That is an increase. �2.5 billion. That is an increase.

�2.5 billion. That is an increase. �2.5 billion. That is an increase.

That is what this debate is about. That is what this debate is about.

That is what this debate is about. What people in Scotland face the

What people in Scotland face the What people in Scotland face the

choice about his being locked into choice about his being locked into

choice about his being locked into choice about his being locked into

a United Kingdom that in 10 years a United Kingdom that in 10 years

a United Kingdom that in 10 years a United Kingdom that in 10 years

will be reserving about a third of will be reserving about a third of

will be reserving about a third of defence expenditure to prop up a

defence expenditure to prop up a defence expenditure to prop up a

Trident missile system that none of Trident missile system that none of

Trident missile system that none of Trident missile system that none of

us in Scotland want, or we can have us in Scotland want, or we can have

us in Scotland want, or we can have defence forces in Scotland that

defence forces in Scotland that defence forces in Scotland that

defence forces in Scotland that meets the needs of our people. That

meets the needs of our people. That meets the needs of our people. That

is the proposition that the SNP is the proposition that the SNP

is the proposition that the SNP is the proposition that the SNP

will put to the people of this will put to the people of this

will put to the people of this country. These figures seem to be

country. These figures seem to be country. These figures seem to be

good reading for you. But they good reading for you. But they

good reading for you. But they appear to show that Scotland will

appear to show that Scotland will appear to show that Scotland will

appear to show that Scotland will appear to show that Scotland will

be worse off in 20 -- in 2016. be worse off in 20 -- in 2016.

be worse off in 20 -- in 2016. the projections you are referring

the projections you are referring the projections you are referring

to, Scotland runs a relative so to, Scotland runs a relative so

to, Scotland runs a relative so plus. The question for the people

plus. The question for the people plus. The question for the people

plus. The question for the people of Scotland is weather they want to

of Scotland is weather they want to of Scotland is weather they want to

get hold of those resources or get hold of those resources or

get hold of those resources or leave them to Westminster to

leave them to Westminster to leave them to Westminster to

squander. That is the choice that squander. That is the choice that

squander. That is the choice that squander. That is the choice that

people in Scotland face. It is a people in Scotland face. It is a

people in Scotland face. It is a people in Scotland face. It is a

choice that has got it, it will put choice that has got it, it will put

choice that has got it, it will put two people with confidence about

two people with confidence about two people with confidence about

their economic future of our their economic future of our

their economic future of our country. -- choice that the

country. -- choice that the country. -- choice that the

Scottish government will put two people.

people. people.

people. What did you make of that. That was

What did you make of that. That was What did you make of that. That was

What did you make of that. That was quite a stout defence. A very stout

quite a stout defence. A very stout quite a stout defence. A very stout

quite a stout defence. A very stout defence. But it is a sad but true

defence. But it is a sad but true defence. But it is a sad but true

fact that you can always spend fact that you can always spend

fact that you can always spend fact that you can always spend

money once. It is good to talk money once. It is good to talk

money once. It is good to talk money once. It is good to talk

about a notional oil fund, but to about a notional oil fund, but to

about a notional oil fund, but to about a notional oil fund, but to

have that, you have to go through have that, you have to go through

have that, you have to go through have that, you have to go through

the figures and take out money from the figures and take out money from

the figures and take out money from every department. As the figures

every department. As the figures every department. As the figures

every department. As the figures stack up, there is no provision for

stack up, there is no provision for stack up, there is no provision for

stack up, there is no provision for this oil fund and that is how on

this oil fund and that is how on this oil fund and that is how on

the net deficit, these vigorous the net deficit, these vigorous

the net deficit, these vigorous the net deficit, these vigorous

show a Scottish budget which is a show a Scottish budget which is a

show a Scottish budget which is a 5% deficit against the UK's 7.9%.

5% deficit against the UK's 7.9%. 5% deficit against the UK's 7.9%.

The money has already been The money has already been

The money has already been allocated. That oil money has been

allocated. That oil money has been allocated. That oil money has been

spared already? Yes.What else did spared already? Yes.What else did

spared already? Yes.What else did spared already? Yes.What else did

you make of the fact, looking ahead you make of the fact, looking ahead

you make of the fact, looking ahead you make of the fact, looking ahead

to 2016? You will not find a single to 2016? You will not find a single

to 2016? You will not find a single Economist or oil expert or a

Economist or oil expert or a Economist or oil expert or a

Economist or oil expert or a geologist who will be able to tell

geologist who will be able to tell geologist who will be able to tell

geologist who will be able to tell you in six months what all price is

you in six months what all price is you in six months what all price is

you in six months what all price is going to be and what the output is

going to be and what the output is going to be and what the output is

going to be and what the output is going to be from North Sea oil. It

going to be from North Sea oil. It going to be from North Sea oil. It

going to be from North Sea oil. It is it time and again by problems.

is it time and again by problems. is it time and again by problems.

It is so difficult to predict. It is so difficult to predict.

It is so difficult to predict. Whoever will be the finance

Whoever will be the finance secretary in an independent

secretary in an independent secretary in an independent

Scotland will have this headache of Scotland will have this headache of

Scotland will have this headache of having to protect budgets for five

having to protect budgets for five having to protect budgets for five

years ahead. The UK Government years ahead. The UK Government

years ahead. The UK Government years ahead. The UK Government

cannot do it and I very much doubt cannot do it and I very much doubt

cannot do it and I very much doubt if a Scottish government will be

if a Scottish government will be if a Scottish government will be

if a Scottish government will be able to do it. But John Swinney has

able to do it. But John Swinney has able to do it. But John Swinney has

said that Norway is more dependent said that Norway is more dependent

said that Norway is more dependent said that Norway is more dependent

on oil revenue. They do, but it is on oil revenue. They do, but it is

on oil revenue. They do, but it is a colossal Fonda in debt is

a colossal Fonda in debt is a colossal Fonda in debt is

a colossal Fonda in debt is invested around the world. It is a

invested around the world. It is a invested around the world. It is a

dream ticket. But they had been dream ticket. But they had been

dream ticket. But they had been dream ticket. But they had been

building it up for decades. I am building it up for decades. I am

building it up for decades. I am never quite sure with John Swinney

never quite sure with John Swinney never quite sure with John Swinney

whether I should cheer or burst whether I should cheer or burst

whether I should cheer or burst whether I should cheer or burst

into tears when I listen to them. into tears when I listen to them.

into tears when I listen to them. into tears when I listen to them.

He makes me weep when he talks He makes me weep when he talks

He makes me weep when he talks about the austerity, the hard fist

about the austerity, the hard fist about the austerity, the hard fist

of austerity of the UK Government of austerity of the UK Government

on Scottish government spending. on Scottish government spending.

on Scottish government spending. But it is very interesting, you

But it is very interesting, you But it is very interesting, you

burst into applause because of burst into applause because of

burst into applause because of public spending in Scotland since

public spending in Scotland since public spending in Scotland since

the recession began has actually the recession began has actually

the recession began has actually risen by 8.5 billion. Well done,

risen by 8.5 billion. Well done, risen by 8.5 billion. Well done,

John Swinney for achieving that. John Swinney for achieving that.

John Swinney for achieving that. John Swinney for achieving that.

But you cannot possibly say you had But you cannot possibly say you had

But you cannot possibly say you had But you cannot possibly say you had

been crushed into the ground by the been crushed into the ground by the

been crushed into the ground by the great austerity of the UK. Thank

you. you.

you. Now to Prime Minister's Questions

Now to Prime Minister's Questions Now to Prime Minister's Questions

Now to Prime Minister's Questions where the Labour leader put the PM

where the Labour leader put the PM where the Labour leader put the PM

on the spot over bankers' bonuses on the spot over bankers' bonuses

on the spot over bankers' bonuses and the bedroom tax. Ed Miliband

and the bedroom tax. Ed Miliband and the bedroom tax. Ed Miliband

wanted to know why the UK wanted to know why the UK

wanted to know why the UK government was fighting an EU cap

government was fighting an EU cap government was fighting an EU cap