07/08/2014 Politics Scotland

Parliament at Holyrood. It is August. Usually politicians are

heading for the Edinburgh Festival or foreign client is. But it is the

referendum, so everything is cancelled. They will break up for

the final stages of the referendum and then come back to dissect the

results. I guess that the referendum will be the top topic today. Let's

cross to the chamber. Now we are getting into the

afternoon, can I ask what the First Minister has planned for the rest of

the day? Can I take the opportunity to thank the people of Glasgow and

every member of Team Scotland, all of our wonderful Clydeside

volunteers for making the Commonwealth Games are magnificent

shawl for the people of Scotland? Measures to take forward the

government's programme for Scotland. As someone who has lived and

breathed the Commonwealth Games for the last ten years, I would join the

First Minister in endorsing everything he has said about what a

wonderful spectacle Glasgow and Scotland put on for the rest of the

Commonwealth and the world. In the increasing unlikely event that

Scotland votes yes, and the likely event the First Minister is unable

to end the union with the rest of the United Kingdom, with the First

Minister tell the people of Scotland, what is plan B? She will

find the answer on 110 -- page 110 and page 111 of the White Paper. Can

I say to Johan Lamont that the reason we are keeping the pound in a

currency union and the reason we are so unambiguous about it is because

we are appealing to the greatest authority of all, that is the

sovereign will of the people of Scotland? After IDS vote in

referendum, I am sure that -- after a yes vote in the referendum, I am

sure that Johan Lamont will respect that. It is Scotland's pound, it

doesn't belong to George Osborne or Ed Balls, it is Scotland's pound and

we are keeping it. I don't know what Nicola Sturgeon made of that answer,

but I dare say I will read what she thought from an unnamed source in

the newspapers tomorrow. Maybe I will have more success than Alistair

Darling in this regard. First Minister has said on many occasions

that he has a plan B, plan C, planned the and plan F if there is

not a currency union. It is clear he has entertained the possibility that

a currency union might not happen. Please share with us, what is plan

B? The options are on page 110 of the White Paper. These are for the

euro which we don't support, a flexible exchange rate policy which

is perfectly viable but not as good as keeping pound sterling, but it

also points out that this is an internationally tradable policy. Now

I have had to inform Johan Lamont of page 110 of the White Paper, will

she not accept that the reason the paper puts forward the view of

keeping the pound sterling in a formal currency union is because it

is best for the people of Scotland and those in the rest of the United

Kingdom. It is our pound and we are keeping it. That might convince your

backbenchers, it will not convince anyone who lives in the real world.

Of course the First Minister talks about his sovereign mandate. He

talks about Scotland's sovereign mandate. But the Prime Minister of

the rest of the United Kingdom will have a sovereign mandate to say no.

It is not... You see, it is not for the First Minister. No matter how

limitless he thinks his powers are. To determine what is in the national

interest of another country. That is not within his gift to decide. The

First Minister has been told by relevant UK politicians and the

civil servant running the Treasury that there will not be a currency

union. The First Minister has said he has a range of other options.

Now, I do hope that the currency is not like the EU legal advice he said

he had, when in fact he didn't. So let's take the First Minister at his

word, when he said he had a plan B. Can he please just share with us and

tell us what it is? I just listed the four options on page 110 of the

White Paper. I was interested in Johan Lamont citing the Prime

Minister of the nation seeing now, but isn't that exactly what Gordon

Brown, the previous Prime Minister, warned about in the Daily Record on

the 2nd of June? Is the only propaganda that comes from the

Conservatives is Britain says no, it is bound to have a reaction in

Scotland and make people feel they are talking down to us and are not

taking us seriously and trying to bully us. Perhaps Johan Lamont

should take the advice from the previous Prime Minister instead of

citing David Cameron, the Tory Prime Minister. I think there are three

reasons for what the Prime Minister, the Chancellor and Ed Balls say.

There is the sovereign will of the Scottish people. Many people will

respect that sovereign will of the Scottish people. Secondly, this plan

is the best interests of Scotland, but also in the best interests of

the rest of the United Kingdom. Businesses in the rest of the United

Kingdom will not to pay ?600 million in transaction costs. Thirdly, the

three gentlemen are not saying they can stop us using the pound. They

are saying that they want to keep for themselves the asset of the Bank

of England. Nationalised in 1946. And asset and a bank which holds

some 26% of UK debt. But if you keep all of the assets of the United

Kingdom, you end up with all of the liabilities of the United Kingdom.

Which, after the work of George Osborne and Alistair Darling,

amounts to ?1.3 trillion of debt. We are expected to believe that in the

general election they are going to campaign, saying that they want to

keep the Bank of England and give Scottish people present of ?5

billion a year? That is why the best will of the Scottish people will

prevail. It is our pound and we are keeping it. I am not surprised that

the First Minister is quoting from the Daily Record in June, rather

than the Daily Record this morning. Three times today, and for many

times in the last two years, I have asked the First Minister for his

plans about the currency. This is a serious matter to the people of

Scotland. Each time, I get a response but never an answer to the

questions people are asking. It is clear the First Minister has a

strategy to get Scotland to leave the United Kingdom. But what is

becoming increasingly clear is he doesn't have a plan for Scotland. We

remember, for those of us who remember what the First Minister

used to say, once the pound was a millstone round Scotland's neck,

then the euro was Scotland's choice. His former deputy, Jim

Sellers, says we should have a separate Scottish currency. First

Minister says he has a range of options. Four back-up plans. Don't

the people of Scotland deserve to know which one it will be? If he

doesn't tell us, which one will it be, and if he doesn't tell us, isn't

it clear that while he may have a plan to break up the United

Kingdom, he doesn't have a plan for Scotland or the future of families

across this country? All right. I pointed out the options were

contained on page 110. I pointed out it was the Euro which we don't

support. I pointed out a fixed or flexible exchange rate, which is

perfectly viable but not as good as keeping sterling in a formal

currency union. I pointed out you cannot be stopped from using our own

currency. That is not even the position of the Conservative Party.

You cannot be stopped. Were putting forward the position that we are

appealing to the people of Scotland that the sovereign will in a

referendum, which is why we are unambiguous, we think the best

position for Scotland and for the rest of the United Kingdom is to

have a formal currency union. Therefore, it is our pound and we

are keeping it in the interest of the Scottish people.

Can I add the heartfelt thanks of myself and my party to everyone who

helped with such a fantastic Commonwealth Games? Can I also add

the police and armed forces for keeping people safe throughout the

games? Can I ask the First Minister when he will next meet the Prime

Minister? No plans in the near future. The First Minister is trying

to lead the Scottish public up the garden path here. He is trying to

pretend to people that he can deliver a currency union with the

rest of the UK, if their work to be independent. And he knows that he

cannot. The First Minister often likes to pretend that he speaks for

all of Scotland, but he has now claiming to speak for all of

England, Wales and Northern Ireland as well. Can we take a step back and

can he admit to the people of Scotland just know that if there

were to be a yes vote, a currency union is not in his gift to give? I

have just set out the reasons why I think what is said the day after a

yes vote in the referendum is different from today. Ruth Davidson

knows that lines in the sand have a habit of being washed away. I

welcomed Ruth Davidson's revelation on 15th June this year in the Sunday

Post that she will back a currency union in the event of a yes vote, if

that is what is best for Scotland. Now, I can only assume that Ruth

Davidson is responding, as Johan Lamont didn't seem too, that she

would accept the sovereign will of the Scottish people. Mind you, there

is less enthusiasm than there is from the deputy leader sitting

beside her. He said he would man the barricades for the pound after

independence. Can I say to Ruth Davidson, I will be there on the

barricades with the Conservative Party? A slightly kamikaze approach

to the courting newspapers today. You so predictable that I have the

reference you are speaking about. I think a monetary union is the best

thing for the people Scotland, which is why I am fighting to keep the

United Kingdom. That is the quote that I gave. Order. Settle down. So

far, we have had a nonsense on stilts argument that a sovereign

will will make this happen. If the First Minister's preferred option

was a link with the dollar, they don't need permission from Barack

Obama. Also that it is in the interest of the rest of the UK

further to be a currency union. The vast majority of people in England

and Wales said in June that it is not in their interest. The First

Minister of Wales has said it is not in their interest. The permanent

secretary to the Treasury has said it is not in their interest. The

Chancellor, Shadow Chancellor, Chief Secretary to the Treasury, the

markets, they have all said it is not in their interests. I didn't ask

the First Minister to tell me anything about sovereign will or the

will of the rest of the UK, I asked him whether a currency union was in

his gift. It is not. All the washing in the world does not make it so.

So, if he cannot deliver, and he can, we are back where we started.

Needing a preferred plan B. Not a range of options, a preferred plan

B. He must have one. What is it? I have listed the currency options

twice from the White Paper. I can do it again but I have done it twice. I

think Ruth Davidson might come to regret only reading that quote and

not going further because she was then asked what would happen if

Scotland with and yes for independence and she said she would

back a currency union if that was best for Scotland, in the Sunday

Post in June. Miss Davidson. The quotation is there, as she well

knows. What she said would happen if there was a yes vote, and she

acknowledged the importance of the sovereign will of the Scottish

people. It is not as enthusiastic as manning the barricades with the

deputy leader beside them but it is important. Ruth Davidson tries to

give the impression this argument which is best for the UK is held by

myself alone despite the substantial arguments, I noticed a letter in the

Financial Times from the head of intelligent Finance, a distinguished

Scottish economist, Professor Sir Donald Mackay, 25 years at adviser

of the Secretary of the four Scotland, former chief executives,

who said there is a positive outlook for the financial sector because the

likelihood of a currency union is strong. It is in the best interests

of Scotland and the rest of the UK and of our financial sector

industry. I said earlier that the issue was not whether Scotland could

keep the pound, I assume Ruth Davidson accepts, as Alistair

Darling did, that it cannot be prevented from keeping the pound. We

cannot you prevented from keeping an internationally credible currency,

and in terms of the debt, there is no doubt the Treasury has accepted

liability for the debt, but in reasonableness, Dick Unionist

coalition will accept that Westminster government tries to keep

all the assets of the UK like the Bank of England, then they end up

with the debt, and the point I was making is that it seems incredible

that Ed Balls and George Osborne will go around campaigning in an

election telling the people of England they were offered 5 billion

of debt interest payments as a proposition by the people of

Scotland but they do not want it because they want exclusive control

of the Bank of England. That is quite what they say now and what it

will say after a yes vote are two different things. That is why it is

our pound and we are keeping it. Dave Stewart. Thank you. The First

Minister will be aware that circle will be keep -- closing their call

centre and making all workers redundant, which is a blow to a

small population. Will the First Minister meet me and send hope to be

at fact that families in the North? -- Serco. I will arrange for that

meeting. I saw the announcement and I know John Swinney and his

officials have been engaged on these matters but I will meet him and his

constituents because I are great that while 21 jobs may sound like a

small number, in a small rural tenancy, it is a huge number and I

think these matters have to be a real concern for companies when

making such a note that back announcements, so I want to be sure

the views of David's constituents are taken into account as we discuss

with Serco how to move forward. To ask the First Minister what meetings

will be discussed at the next meeting of the Cabinet. Meetings of

importance to the people of Scotland. Does the First Minister

accept he is not being fair to people in Scotland? He says he has

an alternative currency plan but he cannot even bring himself to

describe the consequences. After a lifetime of campaigning for

independence, when the moment of truth came on Tuesday he could not

explain his currency plan in front of a million people. Surely he

should have another go now. People in Scotland do not get another go in

September, so these can he described the consequences to Scotland of his

alternative plan? -- lease. I laid out in page 110 of the White Paper,

you can have the euro, which we do not support, although previously the

Lib Dems and myself support that. You can have a fixed taxable

exchange rate, viable but not as good as the option that fought in

the White Paper, we cannot be prevented from using sterling, it is

our currency and we cannot be prevented from keeping up. The

reason the White Paper puts at Fort in these terms is that we are

looking for the sovereign wealth of the Scottish people to back the plan

to keep sterling in that currency union, and I know as a Liberal

Democrat that Willie Rennie believe first, but not to man the

barricades, then to accept the sovereign will of the Scottish

people should it prevail, and that is quite we are backing it and wipe

it is our pound and we are keeping up. -- and why it is our pound. And

we are keeping it. He knows those page numbers but he cannot answer

the question. The First Minister often referred to the fiscal

commission but I suspect most people do not have a copy of the fiscal

commission and the at home. Their names are not on the leaflet sent to

every house, people do not know what they are recommending. They don't

knock on doors, the First Minister does. They are supposed to be his

ideas, so what are they and why can he not bring himself to describe the

consequences of his alternative? AM glad he mentions the fiscal

commission, to highly distinguished economists, but I was not quoting

from them, I was quoting from the White Paper presented to the people

of Scotland in page 110. If I remember right, Willie Rennie was

complaining about the amount we were spending promoting the White Paper

and giving information to the people of Scotland. How can he complain

about it on the one hand and save this information is not now

available? In terms of consequences of other currency options, Professor

David Bell, giving evidence to this Parliament, pointed out it is the UK

debt not Scottish debt, and the UK has agreed it will pay back the

debt. It might be extremely attractive for Scotland to be in a

position where the UK seized financial assets but were not

apparent to accept that means they have the liability as well, it would

be attractive for Scotland to be debt free, we would be in balance of

payments and budget but it is not a reasonable position to put Ford,

which is quite in the White Paper we are offering to pay a fair share,

finance are fair share of the massive liabilities. With the likes

of George Osborne, but that depends and properly on having a air share

of the assets. It is an entirely reasonable proposition. It is the

proposition that is in the White Paper and that is why as part of a

formal currency union, it is our pound and we intend to keep it. To

ask the First Minister what impact hybridisation of the NHS in England

will have on the budget available to Scottish Government? Extremely

serious. Our budget for public services in Scotland is allocated as

a relative proportion of spending in England as depend -- as determined

by the Barnett formula. The impact of austerity on the NHS in England

will see our budget eroded, for every ?10 loss in NHS England,

Scotland will use a pound in funding, so it is a serious issue.

Therefore the idea we can be immune to the privatisation agenda being

pursuit by the NHS and government in England is not reasonable in terms

of how Scotland is financed, and the way to defend the NHS, our public

health service, is to have control of Scotland's finances and therefore

not be vulnerable to the privatisation and fragmentation in

England. Does the First Minister agree that the only way we can

protect Scotland's NHS from Westminster's austerity cuts and

ensure it remains true to its founding principles, free at the

point of need, and in public hands, is by voting yes in September? Yes,

I do. In terms of expressions of that, I think Doctor Philip Winford,

someone who as far as I know has never been involved in politics

before but a prominent breast surgeon who has spoken on this issue

because she could see the danger to the NHS in Scotland, which is the

consequence of urbanisation south of the border. We are fortunate to have

a policy control of health which allowed us to protect our health

service from the damaging reforms the Westminster governments have

made to the NHS in England not just in the last two or three years but

the last 15 years, and with evolution we can set a different

policy. Without independence our budget will be women's -- beholden

to the whims of a retired nation, which is white to protect

Scotland's health service we need independent control of its finances.

Given the Scottish Government has received ?1.3 billion by its own

admission in consequentials from Westminster specifically for health

in this Parliament alone, can the First Minister confirm went during

the summer recess the Scottish Government's referendum device that

advice became so desperate that their only recourse was to indulge

in shameful and shabby scaremongering about the future of

Scotland's devolved NHS as a public service, to which every party in

this Parliament is profoundly committed,

autonomy for Scotland, understand that full well. He knows every penny

of consequentials for the health service has been passed on to the

health service in Scotland. He also knows the entire purpose of a

privatisation agenda is to reduce expenditure on the health service,

therefore it follows its expenditure is reduced in England and we are

still part of the Barnett formula, there will be less money available

for public services in Scotland. That is why the threat to

Scotland's Public health service is real unless we control Scotland's

finances in the way he once believed in and we believe in and the people

of Scotland will back in September. The Presiding Officer moving onto

the next stage. We have come to the close of our coverage of First

Minister's questions, there were some understandable tension on all

sides. We have that discussion about the NHS, the question of whether

cuts in England would work through the Barnett formula into cuts in

Scotland, people saying regardless of how the NHS is delivered in

England it involves public expenditure, but the big debate was

on the currency, all opposition leaders pursuing that question. The

First Minister referred first evolved to the White Paper, which I

have here, but also the formula, it is our pound and we are keeping it,

I suspect we will hear more of that formula as the debate continues.

Thank you for watching.