13/08/2014 Politics Scotland

Good afternoon and welcome to Politics Scotland.

The focus is on welfare, as the Scottish Government claims

a yes vote is the answer for those facing benefit cuts.

Those supporting the union say the issue is about policy rather

Employment in Scotland has reached a new record high,

We'll drill down into the details of the figures.

And the Prime Minister is back from his holiday and straight into

a storm at Westminster as pressure grows for him to consider direct UK

Scottish Government ministers are claiming today that more than

100,000 people in Scotland will lose disability benefits under UK-wide

Leading the charge is the Deputy First Minister, Nicola Sturgeon,

who has said individuals currently claiming Disability Living Allowance

The UK Government has hit back saying its reforms are not all about

cost cutting and that reforms will target resources more effectively

Let's go to the garden lobby of the Scottish parliament and our

Let's just deal with this issue from the Scottish Government. They are

worried about the SNP is saying this includes regular checks on people,

like if you can walk 50 metres and now it is 20 metres.

Be phased in over the next the BBC has been speaking to some of these

people today. They talk about some people with health problems, but

that could be someone with HIV, someone with MS, someone in a

wheelchair or who is blind or has a combination of a huge number of

different problems. The counter is that these changes are absolutely

essential and it is all about value for money and the taxpayer. It is

about targeting those who most need the funding.

for money and the taxpayer. It is about targeting those who That is

why they are doing regular assessments. They do not want

someone to be on an allowance for the rest of their lives without

someone assessing whether the condition has changed. The BBC has

been told the changes are essential. It is thought this is part of an SNP

tactic to remove the focus that has been recently on the currency on

what Plan B might be in the event of independence. The Scottish

Conservatives this morning have been disputing the figures and saying

that many of those who may lose this disability living allowance could,

in future guy get universal credit and would therefore get different

funding but funding all the same. -- in future get universal credit.

Edge-macro he is talking about enshrining the principles of the NHS

in a written constitution. Another hugely emotive issue. While the NHS

is much criticised, it is still a much loved institution. Alex Salmond

has been drawing on that this morning. He has been talking about

it being a fundamental part of Scotland 's national identity. He

has accused Westminster of having scorned and betrayed its founding.

The Scottish Cup and has set out plans for a written constitution if

Scotland does indeed vote for independence on the 18th of

September that is the case. He is saying if there is that

constitution, the NHS should be enshrined within it, protected from

privatisation by stealth that has befallen the NHS in England.

Political opponents are not happy with this approach. They say these

comments are designed to scare voters. They say that overall

branding to the NHS has increased. Earlier today, the Scottish Liberal

Democrat leader Willie Rennie described the comments by Alex

Salmond as dishonest, desperate and disgraceful. He said across the UK

these things unite people like our NHS and that these principles are

unique and injuring. Thank you very much indeed. There will pick up on

some of those points shortly. -- we will pick up.

And official figures released today show unemployment has fallen

in Scotland by 2,000 between April and June, to 176,000.

The UK total fell by 132,000 to 2.08 million.

And employment in Scotland has reached a new record high.

The number of people in work increased by 9,000 between April

Our business correspondent, David Henderson, reports.

The search for work at Partick Jobcentre in Glasgow this morning.

Staffware help matching job-seekers with vacancies. They have seen a

surge in new call centre jobs and hotels and restaurants. In recent

months the economy has shown signs of recovery. Employers have been

taking on new staff. Here, they have noticed a rise in the number of jobs

available. The number of people in Scotland who are out of work and

looking for a job has fallen this month to 176,000. At the same time,

the workforce has risen a job has fallen this month to 176,000. At the

same time, the workforce has risen again that is the same for the UK as

a whole. Staff at Jobcentres have noticed people seem more confident

in recruitment plans. Part-time and temporary vacancies have increased.

We are seeing the trend turn around and more and more vacancies are

coming on which are full and part-time. The jobs market is fluid,

a bit like this wine shop in Barrhead. Peter is one of a record

number of self-employed Scots. He tops up his work here with

wine-tasting classes and consultancy work. Coming from a background where

I had a job, not necessarily a job for life, but a job where I had an

income. Every month the mortgage would be paid. That transition to

being in a work position, where, if the work is not their comic you do

not get paid and the mortgage does not get paid. Some of the new jobs

we have seen maybe seasonal, like down to the Commonwealth Games.

Well, joining me now our commentator for the day, Hamish Macdonell.

Also here is our business correspondent, David Henderson.

Just put these figures into a wider context. Another step on the road to

recovery. We are seeing a steady stream of new jobs in Scotland. 9000

new jobs in the last quarter. 63,000 more in the last year. It means that

employment in Scotland is now... The rate is at an all-time high. The

sums are pretty good for the UK as a whole as well. In the last we have

seen employment rising by more than 100,000. A real surge there. Of

course, employment, unemployment is a lagging indicator. It is a most

important indicator of the health of the economy. It falls into line with

a lot of the other signs we have seen in recent months, signs of

growth are very strong. The private sector in Scotland that Italy is

growing strongly. All in all it is pointing in the right directions.

The UK Government this morning was quick to say it shows that working

as part of the United Kingdom with a stable market and growing economy

and a stable currency is creating more jobs and more opportunities for

Scotland. They are also keen to make the claim that the strong medicine

we have seen in relation to managing the economy in recent years, as far

as they are concerned, is paying off because we are starting to see the

growth rate and employment has picked up quite sharply across the

United Kingdom. The Scottish Government has said, the recovery we

have seen is happening despite not because of anything that is going on

from the UK Government at Westminster. Instead they are

pointing to targeted measures they have introduced in relation to

getting women and young people back into work. They say that is starting

to bear fruit and that Scotland can be an independent country and it

follows, they say, that if he gives Scotland full powers over the

economy then we can grow the economy even more. Nothing like politicians

falling over themselves to take credit for good news. Here we are,

five weeks out from the referendum, and unemployment figures have become

a football in that particular battle. It is not surprisingly close

the economy, unemployment is essential to the economy and that is

critical to the referendum debate. The UK Government has said, we are

doing this well because we are part of the one market. I think there is

a sense in which oddly enough both could be right. The Scottish

governing could well be right. If small, targeted measures for a

Scottish economy were taken on after independence, that could help grow

jobs in certain sectors but the UK Government is right as well. A

market which encompasses the whole of the UK is busy going to do better

for jobs, particularly for companies that operate across the border. This

contributes to the debate about the referendum. John Swinney laid out

the ten point economic plan that he would act in an independent

Scotland. If one were to be cynical, for a second, if you look at what

the SNP will happen in an independent Scotland, the NHS will

be sacrosanct, we will have full employment. The Royal mile will flow

with whiskey and honey, to a certain extent. That is an aspiration but

other governments in the UK have had that aspiration as well. Full

employment has been an aspiration for every different colour. We are

heading to the levels, I think it is probably 2%, 3% is the rational

level where you can say you have full employment, it may be

achievable with independents or without. Thank you very much.

The Cabinet Secretary for Training, Youth Women's Employment, Angela

Constance, is making a statement on a Scottish government review

This was a report by trade unions, business leaders and academics.

Let's listen into what the Cabinet Secretary has to say.

Scotland 's businesses compete internationally delivering long-term

prosperity and high-quality jobs. We need to support the type of growth

that produces inequalities and helps everyone, not just those closest to

the labour market to realise the potential. We need the type of

growth that reduces disparities between different parts of Scotland

and we need the type of growth that is sustainable and resilient and

which focuses on maximising returns from work. Through existing devolved

powers, the Scottish Government has taken forward a range of ambitious

initiatives, including opportunities for all, investment in childcare,

sustained investment and reform of education, record numbers of modern

apprenticeships and programmes such as community jobs Scotland and the

youth employment Scottish fund. We will do more. For Example, we will

implement the recommendations of the young workforce commission. We will

deliver world casts -- class education. I announced ?4.5 million

of funding in earlier response to the recommendations. We share

aspirations to reduce youth unemployment by 40%. The economy

will only achieve its full potential when they maximise quality as well

as quantity of work. We need to grow skills, apply the skills and boost

business productivity. We need to bed progressive workplace policies.

As such, I therefore welcome the publication of the report to the

working together review. I am grateful to all the members, Chris

Park, Mary, Graeme Smith, Patricia Findlay, and I am particularly

grateful to the review group chair. They were asked to review

progressive workplace policies in the public and private sectors,

identifiable agility is for innovation which would enhance

productivity, highlight good practice and recommend how we build

on that to optimise the relationships that linked with

unions and governments. As expected, the report is substantive. In the

recommendations section, it says, and I quote directly, our report

provides a great deal of evidence which confirms the many unions,

employers and employees are already reaping the benefits of working

together to construct their own business or sector specific models

of modern, cooperative industrial relations. We welcome that recognise

it is one of Scotland 's existing economic strength and we are

ambitious to build on that. I fully endorse that statement. The Scottish

Government regards trade unions as key social partners, playing an

important role in sustaining effective democracy in society,

particularly at the workplace, and sees the existence of good

employment practices as a key contributor to economic

competitiveness and social justice. While some may not share that view,

engaging and empowering and ploys is a widely recognised factor in

success. The report challenges businesses and employers, trade

unions, members and officials, and government, to learn to adapt and to

evolve. It identifies four action priorities, building capacity,

ongoing dialogue, real partnership opportunities and a willingness to

learn from hard work. The Scottish Government will consider the report

and the recommendations fully, engaging directly with business and

trade unions and prepare a formal response. We want Scotland to be an

innovative and high productivity economy that competes in

international markets and focuses with high-value goods and services.

This will build greater opportunities for a framework to

better utilise unique strengths and deliver a more resilient economy.

The Scottish government would have greater access to levers to support

the labour market. I am pleased that the review, while adopt thing a

neutral position on the referendum, and rightly so, has endorsed a

fairer employment framework and recommend nation... I recommend

focusing on diversity in all its forms in the work ways and

particularly for women and young people. I endorse the importance of

capturing and applying evidence of what really works in all levels. The

independent body proposed by the review to read joint work by unions,

and government, which produce sustainability and economic growth,

adds weight to Arlington National Convention unemployment and Labour

relations. That was Angela Constance, and we will have more

reaction a little later. Let us get reaction from some of today's

stories from Holyrood. I am joined with Jackson Carlaw, and Bob Doris,

who is deputy convener of the Health and Sport Committee. Good afternoon.

Let us start with the issue of welfare, Jackson Carlaw, highlighted

today by Nicola Sturgeon. She says independence could mean 100,000

people being affected by welfare changes at Westminster not having

their benefits cut. Do you accept that the welfare changes promoted by

your party have led to hardship? The first thing to say is that when she

addressed the Health and Sport Committee at the start of the

Parliament, she said she accepted the principles of welfare reform,

but has not accepted the changes made to them, which is all about

trying to get as many people off benefits and back into work. We have

seen a significant fall in unemployment, a record number the

number of families where no one had worked for over ten years, this has

fallen to magically. Getting people into jobs is the best response. Anju

being dismissive for those people who have been affected by these

problems? Now, but I think for her to give that impression that if she

sets the principles, all the welfare reforms they have in would be

reversed and everyone would receive greater benefits is not to tackle

the problem or be honest, she has not said how this would be paid for.

Today, we know that billions less money was made through the oil shows

that they are making up the figures as they go along. With there be

reform in an independent Scotland? An independent Scotland would review

the tax and benefits in the normal way. I am surprised that Jackson

Carlaw cannot see the difference between reforms and cuts. The

Scottish government has given an absolute guarantee that 100,000

disabled people would otherwise be ?120,000 worth of... Can you say

that no one would be worse off? You have to let me develop this point

because 100,000 disabled people will be ?1020 worse off you can -- every

year if this goes through. Scottish Government has given absolute

clarity that we will halt that process. And the minimum wage will

go up by at least the cost of living, we have given guarantees

that tax credits and benefits will go up. How much does all of this

cost? We are currently paying for that just now as part of the UK

because we pay more than our fears year. Every country runs a fiscal

deficit from time to time. The UK government will be ?1.3 trillion in

debt, and you do not solve it by attacking the purist in society. An

independent Scotland would allow us to defend the crudest. We have to

tackle not just income inequalities but the health and well-being of the

people of Scotland. Ultimately the government at Westminster is trying

to save money on the backs of the most vulnerable. Welfare reform is

not saving money, it is going to cost more in the next few years.

Nicola Sturgeon does not say that there are a number of disabled

people who are going to receive more in benefit because we are targeting

it to them because they are the ones in greatest need. She also doesn't

say that a number of people who will lose will also receive more in

employment allowances. And 242,000 Scots have been removed from paying

income tax altogether, that is tackling people at the margins and

ensuring people have a great standard of living. Let me ask you

about the NHS, people say that if we vote -- in the event of a No vote,

there will be a threat. Is the scaremongering? There is a very real

threat. And act in England estimated that it will save the UK over ?1

billion per year, so if that is successful, privatising the NHS, the

budget Barnett cut to Scotland will be ?100 million less coming to

Scotland and Leicester Scotland's NHS because of the Tory Lib Dem cuts

in England. That is no way to run a Scottish budget or health service.

We are investing in the health service in Scotland. It has been

privatised in England, I am very alarmed by this. But the budget has

gone up in recent years, and the spending choices in terms of how

much money goes into the NHS in Scotland rests with John Swinney. So

the budget for the NHS in Scotland could be preserved if he chose to do

so. The health budget is from a thick Scottish budget we get from

the UK. If UK privatisation reforms are successful, the Scottish budget

will go up by ?600 million less than it otherwise would. That will have a

direct financial cost. All these welfare cuts coming to Scotland, 6

billion welfare cuts, the Scottish government is trying to mitigate

that with it can. Today it has mitigated it to the tune of ?250

million, which should have been spent on devolved Scottish concerns,

but because of the incompetent UK Tory Government, we are targeting

that money to help the most vulnerable in society. Something has

got to get somewhere, which is why we need independence. So the changes

south of the border could have a financial impact on the Scottish

NHS? Two this is the most depressing point we have got to in the

campaign. The Barnett formula consequential is, by the

government's own admission, have generated an increase in Scottish

health service spending during this Parliament of ?1.3 million. --

billion pounds. It is more significant than that because if you

look at the increases in health spending, there has been no

additional money whatsoever from the government in Scotland's core

budget. Everything has come as a result of the Barnett formula

consequential 's. There is a target to receive -- achieve efficiencies,

and any money that is saved and health in England has been ring

fenced by David Cameron, and has been reinvested. This is an enormous

scaremongering story, and today over 60% of doctors said they are going

with the No vote. There are more scare stories going around with the

SNP. In that poll, only a couple of hundred doctors responded, so it is

not very representative. But the stories are without foundation. It

is depressing. The Scottish government brought all of the

parties together and said, can we take the politics out of health

because we have to work together if we are going to make a success of

health care in future. All of the parties agreed that... The SNP are

painting the most lucid portrait can. A quick response from Bob

Doris. Jackson Carlaw would say that, trying to tell us everything

is OK. We know that hundreds of thousands of children pushed into

poverty, hundred thousand disabled adults at knife edge of cuts, ?600

million coming out of the Scottish NHS if there is a No vote, it is my

duty to stand up for these and only myself can do that. O back to

Holyrood, where Angela Constance is taking questions on workplace

relations. That gives an opportunity that is part of the procurement

process that we can consider some wider workforce issues in terms of

conditions and the page, and that is very important in terms of standards

of living for people struggling with the rise in cost of living, and

indeed business, and I have met many progressive employers, and workplace

policies, and their importance to the success of the business. Many

members are seeking to ask questions, so please BP. Westminster

forced the minimum wage, forcing some of the hardest pressed families

to bear the burden of the mismanaged budget. Can he confirm that any

future independence government of which she is a part will ensure the

minimum wage always keeps pace with inflation? Yes, ensuring the minimum

wage keeps pace with the cost-of-living would be a key

priority of the cost-of-living, and come this October there will be

150,000 people... I see fair pay as a mark of a civic society, and

something we could make a lot of road race on. The Minister said

Scotland's economy will only achieve its full potential when we maximise

the quality and quantity of work, but Murdo Fraser is right, we could

have taken a step forward with that by guaranteeing a living age. Why

would the Minister and her colleagues not work together with us

and the trade unions to make that happen? I do think it is unfortunate

that Mr Gray has such a short memory. My recollection was that Mr

Gray and trade union colleagues worked very closely together with

the Government. While there was disagreement as to what was and was

not possible under EU legislation, I think considerable progress was made

under the procurement legislation and in the fact that the amendments

proposed by the Deputy First Minister included the living wage.

We do, of course, all live with the difficulty of the fact we have a

national minimum wage is enforceable in law which is much lower to the

living wage, which is not enforceable by law and I think there

has been very clear guidance from the commission. It is a shame we

cannot recognise where progress has been made. Procurement have to be

used as a power of good and to improve working conditions for

people to the width and breadth of this country. The debate has moved

forward. We will was look to see what more we can do and the

consultation which starts now is very important.

Still here, political commentator Hamish Macdonell.

Firstly, the NHS. It has become a hot potato regarding the

independence referendum. Those on the yes side seem convinced there

could be a problem with NHS funding if there is a no vote. The element I

think they have a point regarding funding but are well off the point

when it comes to protecting the NHS. The NHS is devolved. The Scottish

health service comes under the jurisdiction of the Scottish

Government. If the Scottish Government wants to keep it as a

national service without private contractors, it can do it. The main

issue is money but I do not see the reason to say only independents can

guarantee it, it is surely up to the Scottish Government before or after

independence to keep that in place. The first minister is talking about

it guaranteed. He is talking about enshrining the principles of the

NHS, particularly free at the point of delivery in an independent

Scotland. As far as I am concerned, the constitution is there to

enshrine the rights of the country. It is not there to put policy

decisions in now. The first minister has already said he wants to

enshrine the right to a free education, the right not to have

nuclear weapons, and now he wants to enshrine the right to have a free

NHS. There may be a huge majority people in Scotland who back at least

on the NHS and education but it does not mean they should be written into

the constitution and bind every single future government in Scotland

to what are essentially policy decisions. Let's talk about welfare

with Nicola Sturgeon 's comments. What we do not have so far from the

Scottish Government are costings on all of this. That is very

important. The points that have been brought up, it is all very well to

say we will not do this and pensioners and people living on

disability allowances will be better off in an independent Scotland if we

do not know whether money will come from. It is no surprise, if you look

at the context of this in political terms, that he we have a key

demographic, a key demographic is Labour voters, particularly those in

poorer areas who are seen as most liable to become yes voters come

September the 18th. This is aimed at them. This is a political point to a

certain extent by the Deputy First Minister to say to these people, you

may be Labour voters in the past, you may be wavering, if you vote

yes, we will make sure you are better off. Health, welfare and the

economy are the big issues. Jackson entered new statistics on oil

production. The Conservatives seem to be claiming these figures are

Scottish, did not want to publish but the Scottish Government is

telling us they were not published inadvertently, the statistics,

regularly. It seems that figure is a drop of 1.5 billion barrels of oil,

?1.5 billion in terms of oil generated in the most recent period.

This will be a pretty important story, not in terms of whether the

figures were put out inadvertently or not. The key point is whether or

not oil revenues are up to the point the SNP government says they should

be to really make Scotland thrive as an independent country. What these

figures seem to be saying is that oil revenues of round about ?4

billion between ?3 billion and ?4 billion less than the Scottish

Government hoped they would be all would like them to be to carry

Scotland forward. If there is a whole of that extent in the finances

of Scotland under independence, it is going to put the Government that

takes over in some kind of trouble. Oil is central to the whole argument

about independence. It is so important in revenue terms to an

independent Scottish economy. We will talk again before the end of

the programme. More questions in the Chamber at

Holyrood on workplace relations. Let's head back to Edinburgh to hear

how this session is progressing. With regards to recommendation 24,

and I have to apologise, I did not answer part of Murdo Fraser 's

question. The recommendation 24 is that the Government should legislate

to ensure there is effective worker representation from representative

trade unions on the board of every public sector body. We will

certainly be taking a close look at that recommendation, taking it

seriously and investigating it. It chimes very clearly with aspirations

and plans to increase representation of women on boards in Scotland and

we have laid down our intentions and, if necessary, our ability and

desire to register. The UK Government policies on welfare cuts

are hitting women hardest. Does the cabinet secretary agree that by

increasing the participation of women in the workplace damages in

the gender pay gap that exists in some professions, Scotland could see

clear economic benefits? The Joseph Rowntree foundation and those

working together reviewed the report which made a very salient point

about inequality. When we are discussing and debating inequality,

we talk about welfare reform and tax policies. Rightly so. We must not

forget to say that well rewarded, high-quality workplace is the best

route out of poverty. Ken Macintosh now. Can I thank the Minister for

the direction of travel she has indicated in and sustainable

employment? I reserve it stands in contrast with government support

which is given to union avoiding and tax avoiding companies like Amazon

on. Can I ask the minister whether she will introduce progressive

policies like Labour with regard to wage ratios? I look at the detail of

any recommendations that Ken Macintosh wishes to forward to me. I

will unite with them and see -- and agree that everyone should pay no

tax. At Westminster,

David Cameron is chairing a meeting of the Government's COBRA

emergency committee on the crisis in Iraq after returning early

from his family holiday. Let's speak to our Westminster

correspondent, David Porter. Where does this pressure come from?

Pressure is coming on the Prime Minister on a number of fronts.

There are a number of MPs who say the scale of what is happening in

Iraq and the potential loss of life under threat to life is so serious

that really Britain ought to step up its aid programme and perhaps

consider arming the Kurds who are taking on ISIS, now known as I S.

David Cameron has made a brief statement. He says detailed plans

are being made for more humanitarian aid to try to get the people of the

mountain and tried to get them to places of safety. He said that

Britain would be fully involved in that operation. What he did not do

was give any more facts about the role that Britain would be playing.

We know that there have been a number of humanitarian aid drops,

three so far, from the aria. We also know as well that the number of

generic helicopters are being sent to Cyprus, where they can fly to

Iraq if necessary. Their role is to bring troops in, get aid in and

bring troops out as well. He was asked if it was time to recall

Parliament. He chose his words carefully. He said it was a

humanitarian operation did not think parliament would have to be

recalled. He said if the situation changed, he may change his mind.

That is a developing story. Let me ask you about remarks by Mark

Carney, who gave a press conference today. Is that the Bank of England

had contingency plans in the event that the referendum in September

raises financial stability issues. What does he mean by that? What he

means by that, he made it plain that any decision on the currency and how

currency would operate potentially in an independent Scotland would be

for the politicians to decide. He said the Bank of England 's key role

was to try and ensure there was stability in the financial markets.

He went as far as to say their work contingency plans. He did not spell

them out. He said he would be looking at all the options and made

it plain that as far as the Bank of England are concerned that the

priority is whatever the politicians and voters decided would be to try

to maintain stability and certainty in financial markets. This is

uncharted territory. It would be surprising if the bank did not have

contingency plans. He was at pains to say any decision on currencies

which would and would not be used, that would be for the politicians.

He said his job would be to implement what the politicians

decided that they wanted to happen. His key role and the key role of the

Bank of England is to try and ensure stability and, yes, I think it would

have been extraordinary if he had put it another way and said, no, we

do not have any plans whatsoever. That is more likely to have spooked

the financial markets. Let's have a final word with my guest. How much

pressure is David Cameron under? I think he is under great pressure.

Every Prime Minister in the last 25 years would have been cursing the

name of Iraq. It has been a running sore for years and years and years

and it has come again -- come up again. The issue behind the story is

whether or not Britain takes a move to stop humanitarian aid, or

continue with humanitarian aid and move to more monetary aid as well.

That is where David Cameron has been very careful about the language he

has used, leaving open the possibility of recording parliament

if there is any suggestion of that. Quite clearly, learning lessons from

the past where Parliament was not consulted as fully as it might have

been on the circumstances behind the decisions that have been made. Let's

talk about the oil issue. The Scottish Cup and has given more

information on this. Scottish Conservatives are saying these are

inadvertently revealed figures which suggest the Scottish gunmen saying

they were released as planned. It made clear that record investments

in the North Sea would reduce revenues in the short term and that

is what we are seeing. When they talk about the investment in the

industry, production increases by 14% between 2013 and 2018. When it

comes to oil predictions, you pay your money and take your choice. As

investment goes up, revenues go down because the tax revenues are not

that and the companies are putting more money into investment. The

point is that we cannot predict. You cannot project what the revenues

will be like when you're to the next. It will be foolish or anyone

on any side to make any judgments about how much money a Scottish

Government would have, an independent Scotland, based on tax

revenues which would go up wildly from year to year. People are going

to continue to speculate on that one for the next few weeks. Get a Mac

with a Scottish Government has got itself into a bit of a fix. -- the

Scottish Government has got itself into a bit of a fix. It would not

any finance and independence column that paper the old fund as well. --

but pay for the old fund as well. Tonight on Reporting Scotland,

the First Minister, Alex Salmond, will be in the studio

for an extended interview. The Better Together leader

Alistair Darling will be I'll be back

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