09/11/2011 Politics Scotland

Hello and welcome to Politics Scotland. Coming up: The heat is on

as arguments rage about the site of new coal power plant in North

Ayrshire. New leader but same old Tories? We look at how the Scottish

Tories plan to move forward with the Ruth Davidson.

And Scottish teachers plan to walk out on strike for the first time in

25 years. The UK Border agency roared rages

for the third day in a role. -- a row.

First, plans to build a new coal- fired power station in North

Ayrshire. The council have received a record 20,000-plus objections. I

am joined by our environment correspondent, David Mellor. Good

afternoon. It was the background. - - gave us.

What is being advocated is a large coal-fired power station.

Environmental campaigners argue that it would be a travesty for

Scotland to build a new coal-fired power station at a time when the

country is working hard to reduce its greenhouse gas emissions in a

bid to meet its legally binding climate change targets. So this has

proved to be something of a battle royal between environmentalists and

the company behind the proposal, Ayrshire POWER. It argues that it

is using carbon capture and storage technology to minimise the

greenhouse gas is being pumped into the atmosphere. To start with,

around a quarter of the Co2 emissions would be captured. That

would rise in the years ahead. The environmentalists do not buy this

argument. They say we should not be building any more coal-fired power

stations. We are waiting on the decision from the council. Can you

talk us through what might happen? Councillors began meeting at around

2pm. We expect the meeting to be fairly swift in reaching a

conclusion. They are, as you mentioned, being encouraged to

reject the proposal from Ayrshire Power. If there is a public inquiry,

it will bounce back to Scottish ministers who will ultimately have

to make a decision. Whatever happens today, the company say they

will still fight on. They say that the opportunities for Ayrshire are

too big and too important to give up that fight.

I understand we have some news from Aberdeenshire about carbon capture

there? Yes. It is absolutely crucial of Scotland is to meet its

climate change targets. It allows - - carbon capture allows power

generators to capture the emissions and store them beneath the sea. We

had been expecting proposals to be implemented on an industrial scale

at the Long Gannet power station. Those proposals will not be

supported, largely because of cost. Attention now focuses on Peterhead

and the gas fired power station there. An agreement has been made

with Shell. And a great -- a great deal of enthusiasm and optimism

from that programme. The message from the Scottish government is

that we have to get on with developing the technology and the

UK Government has to come up with funding soon.

Thank you for that. We will be back with you later if we hear any

breaking news. The Scottish Tories have a new

leader in the shape of Ruth Davidson. A little over six months

ago it would have been almost impossible for the former

journalist to become party boss. Her decision to stand in the

contest was greeted with great surprise. Many members obviously

took fright at Murdo Fraser's plan to ditch the party name. Ms

Davidson insists that the party will now reunited. I a leadership

election is now the four -- is exactly the form where people will

put forward their ideas of where they want the party to go. We do

not have an electoral college, it is one member one vote. I came

through as the leader of the direction the party wants to going.

The party will come together now, because that is what parties do

after elections such as this. I am joined in the Garden Lobby by

John Lamont, Ruth Davidson's campaign manager, and by Alex

Johnstone, a Murdo Fraser supporter. Thank you for joining me. Firstly,

John Lomond, Murdo Fraser said it was time to adapt or die. What are

you going to do? Will you die under the new regime? Not at all. I am

delighted that Ruth has been elected. We had a very lively and

vigorous debate during the election. I am pleased that she came through

that as the winner. The party is confident that the candidates will

come together and the party will come together.

By the Fraser pointed out that there is no future -- Murdo Fraser

pointed out that there is no future for the party as it stands. It is

perfectly common in any leader, such -- contest for the different

candidates to express different views and then, when it is over, to

come together. The challenge for the leader and all was who aspire

to be elected is to ensure that as many people bought Conservative as

possibly can. I am sure that all MSPs, all Conservatives, regardless

of how they voted, will ensure that is their aim we all have. If John

Lamont, speaking about Murdo Fraser's views and opinions, they

were strong beliefs that something had to change.

You were a supporter. I take it that you held those beliefs, too.

How will you adapt to the current form of the party? I am a very

loyal supporter of Murdo Fraser. This is one of the most vigorous

and high profile public debates within a party ever in Scotland.

What we got out of it was the respect of a great number of people.

The result, which was a close one, was decisive. It decided that Ruth

Davidson would be our next leader and that the party will, I assure

you, pull together a run that leadership. We know that unity is

key to success in politics. After a public debate, you will now see

unity. It was a very close-fought thing and there is a great section

of party members out there to believe that rebranding was the way

forward. That is now not going to happen. How can you, as members,

inhabit a disabled party? As I say, the result was close but it was

decisive. I believe that Ruth's leadership will take us in a

slightly different direction from Murdo Fraser's. It will be forward

looking and evolutionary. We will be a party that is more effective

than in the past. When you have these kind of discussions it is

important that you take the electorate seriously. Although the

electorate was limited to Conservatives, the participation

rate was very high. We have consulted widely and included as

many people as we can in the process, and we have a result. It

may not be the result I was walking for but it is decisive.

John Le Mans, Alex is saying that the process of change will be

evolutionary. It has not worked under Annabel Goldie, who was, by

all accounts, a very popular leader. How will it work under Ruth

Davidson? How will you that -- how will you attract support?

Conservative Party in Scotland understands it needs to change. All

of the candidates understand the importance of us reconfiguring

ourselves to make ourselves more attractive to the electorate.

You tried that with Annabel Goldie but it simply did not work. I am

not sure about that. Ruth Davidson has been very clear

about the need for substantial change in our party. It is about a

generational shift. It is the first time we have had a leader as young

as Ruth. She has a huge mandate to move things forward. I am sure that

her new team, once it is announced tomorrow, will be able to move

forward and re-energised the party to make sure we are the electoral

force that we need to be in Scotland.

Alex Johnstone, the party is going to be re-energised - what do you

want to see change in? There is a lot that has to change but this is

not the time to discuss it. Rhys Davids in needs to be put in a

position where she can take authority or the party and she will

have my support in that. She is young, fresh and vigorous. In fact,

I actually discovered that she is not much older than some of my

children, always a hard experience for any man! She brings new energy

and enthusiasm and a sense of direction, which I think she will

stamp on the party in the months to come.

Thank you very much. Let's discuss this with our

political commentator for the afternoon, Hamish Macdonell. Good

afternoon. What do you make of those points? The two diametrically

opposed sides are coming together in a new Conservative Party - do

you think they can come together? How can that be the case for people

who are on -- who, last week, were on opposite sides of the party. It

was a very divisive contest. Remember, we had one candidate who

was going to disband the party and former new one. He won something

like 40% of the votes cast. It was divisive and there are big issues

here that cannot be swept under the carpet quickly. One of those issues

was concerns about donors. One donor was on Newsnight on Monday

and said he was going to put his donations on hold. Do you think

that Ruth Davidson has the backing from the donors, from a large

section of the membership who voted for Murdo Fraser? The party will

continue to have donor's, and very powerful borders as well. I think

that the Murdo Fraser's point was that he wanted to open up the party

to get more donors and members in. Ruth Davison's job was to try to

unite the people who have gone away saying, I do not like the way the

party is going. She is trying to bring them back and bring the

supporters back. It is a hard job. We were talking about how they

could increase their support from their core support at the moment.

Alex Johnstone was talking about evolutionary change, but that was

attempted under Annabel Goldie, wasn't it? Yes, and it is difficult

to see where that change will come from. Annabel Goldie was a popular

leader. She ended up with one MP. That is the same number they have

had for the past three might general elections in Scotland. The

party is on its bedrock of support and a number of leaders and

strategists have tried to lift it up. None has managed to do so. Ruth

Davidson is tasked with that and I would be interested to see how she

will achieve it. Thank you very much.

In just over 20 years, the over- sixties will make up a third of

Scotland's population. Delivering decent and affordable services to

that group is a challenge to any government and it is the subject of

a debate in Holyrood this afternoon. Let us go to the chamber now.

Essential services are going to be important to shifting balances of

care. I know, as a former occupational therapist, he will

bring understanding and insight to this issue, which is particularly

welcome. I absolutely well come the initiative announced by the

minister, but I wonder whether it will address all the points and

concerns that have been raised. If I would encourage him to make the

scope as broad as possible. The second issue is the nature of re-

able month teams -- re-ablement teams.

Many councils have been investing in training for their staff to

fulfil roles that the Government for seize up, yet not one of them

has been involved in any way whatsoever. I do not want to think

that is an oversight but, whatever the reason, I would be genuinely

Gradel of the minister could consider that. The third issue is

the change fund for all the peoples services. I think we would

acknowledge that �70 million is but a small fraction of the �4.5

billion spent on social care. The test will be in the change that

that pot of money generates. There is some disquiet with the operation

of the fund so far - concerns about substitution. One commentator said

that the funds must not be spent as a way of providing existing

services are spent by local authorities and the NHS board to

plug existing funding gaps. There are concerns on the ground that

that is happening. There are also concerns that the fund is not

focused on prevention, which I think we all acknowledge is also

the way forward to lower public spending and delivering out comes

with something like only 18% of the spend identified currently as

Perhaps even more worryingly, we hear that the change fund will end

up having spent more than that. It would appear that only one the 7th

of the fund has been spent in the first half of the year. Local

authorities will be encouraged to spend the remaining money in the

second half of the year. The concern is that it is about getting

money out of the door quickly, rather than considering what it is

best spent on. The minister will be aware of another challenge to

helping people stay in the wrong homes and that is the apparent

reduction in budget for aids and adaptations. Often very small

pieces of equipment or an adjustment to a home is enough to

give someone the independence they need to remain in their own home.

Waiting times for these appear to be lengthening. Charges are being

introduced. I know of a family that waited for over a year. Do you

share the concerns I have that there has been at 25% cut in the

budget to register a social landlords for housing adaptations?

I am about to share with you are an example that happen within the

context of a registered social landlords. A family had to wait for

a year for fight will -- the vital assistance that resulted in the

child having to be readmitted to hospital because the local

authority was unable to provide it time late support in the way of

adaptation. The minister will have the support of these benches if he

can improve the situation. Finally, I want to address delayed discharge.

This is an area I think we can all agree requires further action. She

announced that she wanted to reduce delayed discharge to two weeks. I

support her in that aspiration. But the problem is that having reached

zero, following the successful plan implemented by the previous Labour

administration and carried on by the SNP, we're now starting to see

delayed discharge figures going the wrong way. Despite a promise made

in this chamber by his predecessor, sure Robson, that waits of over six

weeks would be zero, there were 96 people delayed within the last six

months. You are watching Politics Scotland

from the BBC. Still to come on the programme: I take full

responsibility for my decisions and Brodie Clark must take full

responsibility for his actions. Mounting pressure on Theresa May.

The Home Secretary is forced to explain herself once again as the

row over the relaxation of border controls continues.

Scottish schools are facing the prospect of industrial action for

the first time in almost 25 years. The EIS - the country's largest

teaching union - will strike at the end of the month. The Scottish

Secondary Teachers' Association is awaiting the result of its strike

ballot. And the Association of Headteachers and Deputes have

already voted for industrial action. Our reporter has been looking at

why teachers are wanting to walk out the classrooms.

This woman has been teaching for 14 years. She says she loves her job.

Recently, she feels her profession has come under attack. That is why

she has voted to strike. workload has gone through the roof

of. We have had a pay freeze. We have seen an attack on our

conditions. To now be in a position where we are being asked to pay

more into our pension and work longer for less back, people just

feel it is the final straw. last time teachers went on strike

was the 1980s. How significant is this strike? There is concern about

pensions. But there is a deeper sense. The EIS is now behaving much

more like an ordinary trade union. In the 1980s, it was more of a

professional association. In the 1980s, the strikes were about the

status of education and policies. This forthcoming strike is more

about pay and pensions. That is a striking change. Like a up -- like

other public sector workers, teachers face the prospect of

making higher pension contributions for a smaller payment upon

retirement. Our teachers likely to get a better offer? A chance in a

lifetime means that people and the public sector will have access to

equality pensions which are not available to others and the private

sector. The private sector are having to pay contributions towards

the cost of these through their taxes. That is often a sore point

for me any people. The EIS says its patience is being too it -- being

tested. But how do parents feel? The world is on the verge of

collapse. We don't need a striker. I think the situation must be dire

if teachers feel that they need to strike. Pensions are reserved to

Westminster. The Scottish Government says it agrees with the

campaign of the EIS but is against a strike. I am hundred -- I am glad

the understand our concerns. We have tried negotiating and it has

got us know there. After almost 25 years, the EIS might be rusty about

strikes, but they will have plenty of company it when the strike on

the St Andrew's Day. I am joined now in the studio by

Susan Quinn from the EIS. Why exactly do you want to go on strike

on St Andrews Day? Pay, pensions or both? We do not want to go on

strike, but we feel we have been forced into that position. The

strikers about proposed changes to pensions. That is the bigger issue.

As we saw in that report, it is the straw that broke the Kamal's back.

A number of changes have taken place which have rarely challenged

teachers in be saying years. have seen a lot of unrest in the

public sector regarding pensions. We are hearing that the EIS are

behaving like other trade unions. People and the private sector do

not have these gold-plated pension pots. They are not gold-plated. The

EIS and others feel for our colleagues within the private

sector. We understand that their pensions are not what they should

be. However, our pensions should not be brought down to a level just

because there's are not good enough. They should get there has improved

in order that they have a proper retirement. Pretty sure pension

scheme in Scotland is one that is funded by teachers. We are

taxpayers. We pay twice into it because we pay our wrong

contributions and then we pay our own taxes on top of that. There is

nothing in our proposals which suggest that our pension pot are

not workable within themselves. We do not believe the proposed changes

are about the and Saints -- on sustainability of our pensions.

you not accept that since devolution the settlement teachers

have received has been historically very good? The settlement teachers

have received? We are currently in the middle of a two year pay freeze.

We have a situation where our supply teachers are being paid less

than they were six months ago. We're in a position where we

negotiated 10 years ago with send the McCrone agreement -- within the

McCrone agreement a pay settlement over a three-year period. Since

then, what we have had has been in line with other public sectors. We

have not had anything additional to that in the subsequent seven years

from that point. That settlement was significant. Let's look at what

the parents were saying. I was a primary pupil and remember the

teachers' strikes in the 1980s. What do you say to parents whose

children will suffer under these strikes? I also was a pupil at that

time. We need to consider what people want from teachers. If the

proposals go through it as they are, what we're will see will be

teachers in the classroom for 68 years old. Teaching is a highly

challenging job. Parents need to understand that in order to do the

job well, they have to be properly motivated and properly supported.

The difficulties we have our that if these proposals are forced

through, teachers will become demotivated and there will be many

older teachers in front of young classes. We have a position were we

don't think that is in the best interests of education. We're

trying to bring through young teachers. What we will see is a

much older profession in the long run if these proposals go through.

It is not just about our pensions. We have an educational argument for

this as well. Thank you for coming in to speak to us.

Concerns have been raised in the Scotland Bill Committee at Holyrood

after a witness claimed UK ministers had told him they would

not devolve corporation tax to Scotland. Dr Graham Gudgin, an

economic adviser to the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland,

warned that if the Scottish Government continued to press for

the powers, they could damage Northern Ireland's chances. This

left the SNP questioning whether that means the end of the respect

agenda. Here is a taster of what was discussed.

It seems to me that the Scottish position is quite unlike Northern

Ireland. It does not sure the weaknesses to the same extent.

Reading Scottish documents, there is usually a claim about

corporation tax. In the UK firmament, Scotland is pretty much

an average region. The current coalition... My information, which

I think is very reliable, is that a Tory lead coalition will not

devolve corporation tax to Scotland under any circumstances. If

Scotland keeps pressing this, it looks like the most likely outcome

will be that they will retire from this altogether and Northern

Ireland will not get it either. There is quite a responsibility on

the Scottish Government in pursuing this. You could damage Northern

Ireland quite a bit. It would also, I think, damage Scotland's long-

term prospects of getting this. If Northern Ireland got it in the

short term, it will be easier to argue for it in Scotland in the

long term. Let me put this strongly. The Scottish Government seems to be

blundering into this. I share the frustration of CBI Scotland

regarding the discussion paper from the Scottish Government. It is a

very one-sided document and says almost nothing about the costs of

doing this. Any policy is probably good value if he would like to keep

the other costs out of it. quoted earlier the CBI. You did say

that they tend to scare the pants of people. You did not quote people

like the Federation of Small Business are people like Jim McColl

who gave evidence to the committee. That is one successful businessman

who takes the opposite view of the CBI. Would you agree that there is

not a unanimity of view across business about whether or not

corporation tax should be devolved to Scotland. And two per train debt

-- and to betray it as an devolution of power is incorrect?

Yes, I quite agree that there are diverse views. Inside Government in

London, the CBI is not on board and that fact has been taken very

seriously. We're being told by the UK Government that their minds have

not been made up and there is it respect agenda for this Parliament.

You seem to be suggesting that their mind has already been made up.

You said that you have heard from close sources in the UK Government

that under no circumstances would stop and get corporation tax. That

rather negates the language that has been used by UK ministers. That

is very concerning not only for this Parliament and the Scottish

Government, but for this committee who have been spending many hours

in serious examination of these issues are. Doesn't it rather

undermine the issue of the respect I do not know what UK Government

ministers have told you but I am telling you clearly what they have

told me privately. Are you saying that UK Government ministers are

saying that this committee is wasting its time talking about

corporation tax? Yes. That is the short answer.

The committee agreed to send Dr Gudgin's evidence to UK Government

ministers to find out if they were wasting their time. A spokesman

from the Scotland Office game was this line. He said, any changes to

the Bill must be based on detailed evidence and cross-party consensus.

Let's pick up on this issue with our political commentator, Hamish

Macdonell. Quite extraordinary evidence, there. Quite so. We now

know what the UK Government's position is on this. I think it is

unlikely we will get corporation tax. I think there are bigger

issues to be considered. It was mentioned in the report about the

respect agenda. I just get the impression that this is the start

of a process which will see the end of that agenda. I think this is a

sign, and we will see others in the weeks to come, of the UK Government

starting to play hardball with the Scottish government and say, no,

you cannot of all these things that you want. -- you cannot have.

It is claimed... The Northern Ireland administration have been

asking for corporation tax for valid reasons because of their

proximity to the Republic of Ireland for many years. They see

Scotland as latecomers to the scene, trying to get something that they

have been pushing for for some time, and getting in the way of the

Northern Irish solution. Peter Robinson was making that

point might very clearly during the summer. Where does this leave the

Scottish government now? Did they ever hope that corporation tax

might be devolved north of the border? They did, very much so.

They used the argument to say that they had a mandate here in Scotland

and that gave them the right to demand the sorts -- these sorts of

changes. There could be a real battle between the two

administrations. Let us look at what the next stage

is. What do you think might happen with the Scotland Bill further down

the line? I think there is a chance that the Scottish government may

not give legislative consent to the Scotland Bill. You would then be in

a situation where the UK Government has passed a Bill and it would be

knocked back by a technical motion in the Scottish Parliament. What

does the UK Government do at that stage? We are in uncharted

territory again. You would have a constitutional battle between a

government up here that has a mandate and the majority and the

government in Westminster which the end his -- the SNP says has no

mandate up here. Thank you for the moment.

Ed Miliband has said that the row over relaxed UK border controls

over the summer has turned into a complete fiasco. David Cameron said

he backed his Home Secretary following claim and counter-claim

about what actually happened. At PMQs, Mr Cameron was also asked why

RBS bankers were getting �500 million in bonuses. The Prime

Minister cannot tell us how many millions of people were let in

under the relaxed border controls agreed by the Home Secretary. Mr

Speaker, is it not totally unacceptable that the Home

Secretary chose to relax border controls in July, and Devine

yesterday she could not tell us which airports and ports it applied

to, how many took it up and for how long? She provided those figures.

The figures for the number of arrests are as follows. Firearms -

a 100% increase in seizures, illegal immigrants... The simple

fact that the Right Honourable Gentleman has to accept, and I

think everyone has to accept, is this: The head of the UK Border

agency, who also did not know that this unauthorised action was taking

place, he said this, and I think it is very important for the house to

understand. He said this: Brodie Clark admitted to be on 2nd

November that on a number of occasions this year he authorised

his staff to go further than ministerial action. I therefore

suspended him from his duties. In my opinion, it was right for

officials to have recommended the pilot so we focused our attention

on high risks to our border. It is unacceptable that one of my

officials went further than was approved. That is why he was

suspended, that is why the one Secretary back to that decision,

but is a bit -- but it is an important issue at understand that

Brodie Clark was suspended by their head of the UK Border agency. It

was a decision, quite rightly, taken by him, backed by the warm

Secretary, backed by me. Is it not utterly typical Mr Speaker, that

they claim things have nothing to do with them. Is it not the end --

is it not indefensible that the Royal Bank of Scotland should now

be paying over �500 million in bonuses this year? No, I do not

think it is on accept that -- it is acceptable. We will be making our

views known. War is a failure of politics. The people who go to war

are not politicians, they are brave service people who die in the

service of their country. Could I asked my right honourable friend to

point out that the poppy is not a political symbol, it is a symbol

that says we respect the sacrifice made by people on behalf of their

budget. I will certainly do that. It is also about asking membership

bodies of FIFA to take a strong line about this. This is not a line

about -- an issue about left or right. We all do it, even if we do

not approve of the Warsaw that people were fighting him. We do it

to recognise the fact that people have made a sacrifice. I hope it

can make people think again. Let us stay in the row about UK

passport controls. We got to David Porter at Westminster. A very

interesting Prime Minister's Question Time today. Do you think

Theresa May is safe for the moment? I think she has difficult questions

to answer. It has all the indications that it will go on for

a few days yet, just because of the choreography of things. Brodie

Clarke is likely to be giving evidence to the Home Affairs

Committee next week. That means that the row will continue at least

until then. It is that becoming, I think, one of those questions not

just about Theresa May but perhaps more importantly about her judgment

and to our competence. At the moment she has the full backing of

the Prime Minister. The 4th -- for the third time in three days in a

role she is having to defend herself. If there are no has been

any communication with Harar members of her department that the

relaxation was OK, then she would be in real trouble. She came men

promising that these things would not happen. This proves how

difficult the Home Office is to control. There is a saying here

that the Home Office is the graveyard of many a politician will

stop the UK Border agency, to use John Reid's phrase from a few years

ago, not fit for purpose. There are many politicians who still believe

that is the case. Immigration will always be a controversial issue.

For many in the Conservative Party it is a touchstone issue. They said

they would get on top of it. Again, although this is perhaps not to do

with numbers of people coming end to settle in Britain, it is linked

to it. I think the most damaging part for Teresa me so far has been

that statement she made to the House of Commons on Monday when she

said she did not know how many people are coming to Britain

because of this extra relaxation and she did not know how many

people should have been the subject of more strength -- stringent

regulations. It seems, at the moment, she is still not able to

come up with that figure of the number of people who should not be

here. That is very damaging for her politically. The oppositional that

and that is why they are trying to capitalise on it.

David Porter, thanks very much. Some breaking news. We have heard

that councillors in North Ayrshire have rejected proposals for a new

coal-fired power station to be built at Hunterston. That will now

go to a public inquiry. Let us pick up on some political

issues in the PoW -- in the company of our political commentator,

Hamish Macdonell. Hamish, let us go back to Theresa May and the

passport control row. A hugely damaging for the Prime Minister and

a one Secretary, isn't it? Absolutely. I remember from my days

in Westminster that there was a tradition around ministers that

went back many years that you did not blame civil servants when

things went wrong because they could not answer for themselves.

Theresa May has done that. She has blamed Brodie Clark public for this.

It is no surprise that he has hit back at her, and hit back very hard

indeed. This comes down to who knew what and when. It Brodie Clarke can

prove that Theresa May knew more than she said she did at the time

then, yes, I think she is probably finished at point. It has a long

way to go but she has got herself into some trouble. It is

interesting how civil servants do hit back these days. The Prime

Minister, after losing his Defence Secretary a few weeks ago, he

cannot really lose a Home Secretary now, can he? To lose one it is

careless, losing two would be disastrous. Theresa May is showing

herself to be rather accident prone. If you remember the Conservative

Party Conference, she got herself into a hot water over a cat and

whether a person was expelled or not and then a row with Kenneth

Clarke. She has not shown herself to be the safe pair of hands that

any Prime Minister would like to have been a Home Office. That is a

problem for the Prime Minister. and it proves how troublesome the

Home Office is. It is, very much so. As David said, it is the graveyard

for many political ambitions. He will be hoping it is not hers.

Thank you. Do remember that we have Scottish

Questions after 11pm tonight. David Porter will be back with that. That

is all we have time for. We are back at the usual time of 2:30pm on