14/03/2012 Politics Scotland

Coming upon the programme: it more bad news on the local jobs figures,

more young Scots are unemployed. Plans on men and prices for alcohol

be passed today, as Labour changed their position and abstain. With

David Cameron away in Washington meeting President Obama, it is left

to Nick Clegg, who has been at the despatch box. Unemployment figures

have gone up again. According to latest figures unemployment is up

again. In January the total rose by 6,000. I'm joined by our political

commentator, Lorraine Davidson. There is a lot of concern about

another rise in unemployment figures. People want to know that a

line has been drawn under the economic troubles of the last

appears. When you see figures like this, clearly that is not the case.

There is very little chance of recovery this year. It is growing

faster than the rest of the UK. Sadly, we went in a worse than the

rest of the UK, it's not surprising we are still there. The Scottish

government took credit when things were better, they are saying the UK

Government needs a concerted effort in measures to cut unemployment in

next week's Budget. That was making a rod for your own back. If you

take the credit, you go to have to take the opposite. People are going

to look to blame the Scottish government to win your figures are

going up. They might have been better advised to say very little

at the early stages, rather than now being in the position of taking

the blame in the later stages when they are not turning the corner as

fast as the rest of the UK. In reality, I don't think there is

much difference in terms of the Scotland problems and the rest of

the UK. There is not something glaringly obvious that needs to be

done in Scotland. It will not be a Budget that will not aid recovery.

They will be going on about discrepancies. In reality, George

Osborne won the to come up with a Budget designed to kick-start the

economy, and get jobs going. other big story is the minimum

price for alcohol. That has been debated, we will bring you that

later. The SNP have their majority. They have agreed to a sunset clause.

That is a good idea. The Tories and the Lib Dems are prepared to do

that. They will see if the legislation has an impact. You can

bring it in, see if it makes a difference. Nobody is arguing that

it is a silver bullet. The sensible thing is to see if it makes a

difference, get on with it. Thanks very much.

I mention that there was a change in the Labour position. Let's go

over to Glenn Campbell. You have some details on the change of the

Labour position, can you tell us in? You can see what difference an

election makes. In the last Parliament it was up brownout by

the combined forces of Labour, the Conservatives, and the Liberal

Democrats. That was the time when the SNP had a minority government.

They have enough votes to get this in on the Rhone, the Liberal

Democrats have come onside, in the last week the Conservatives have

agreed to give it a go, on the condition of that sunset clause.

That means the Bill will be scrapped if the unit pricing was

not shown to have worked. Today, Labour are not likely to vote for

unit pricing, but will abstain in the votes, this will be passed

without a single boat in opposition. Labour have released a package of

measures that they what the government to take forward. Do you

think Labour will maintain that position? I cannot say what they

will do that stage three. -- what they will do in stage three. They

may introduce some complementary measures. They point out that no

single measure is going to stop Scotland's unhealthy relationship

with alcohol. They are still very concerned about the impact that a

minimum unit pricing will have. They say that the single largest

floor in the Bill is that a minimum unit price of 45p, that could

generate over �100 million for alcohol retailers. They won the

Scottish government to introduce its levy, to claw some of that

money back. I don't think the Scottish government will accept a

proposal, but even in those circumstances, Labour will abstain

on the legislation. Unless their lunchtime meeting changes their

position. We will bring you some of that

debate live at 3:05pm. Let's look at those unemployment

figures. That is up by 6,000. That is higher than the rest of the UK.

We are at 8.7%, the UK average. Is 0.3% higher. Youth unemployment

stands at 103,000. Almost one in every four Scott is unemployed --

Scots is unemployed. It reminds me when Margaret Thatcher was in power,

and unemployment was at her 3 million in the UK. People felt

despondent, a deprived young people have any hope when they were

leaving school. -- it deprive young people are having any hope when

they were leaving school. It is people without skills. If you don't

get them into the workplace straightaway, people who are less

skilled than graduates, they don't have any chance at all. There

aren't enough jobs to go round. If they don't get into the culture of

employment, that means when the economy does it get better, in 5-10

years' time, they have missed the boat. They have a big black hole on

their CV, who is going to touch them? Thank you very much. Let's

speak to Garry Clark, from the Scottish Chambers of Commerce.

You have been looking at these figures, can you provide some

analysis? We have seen a rise in youth unemployment, can you give us

some detail at why we have got to this stage? Clearly unemployment

has continued to grow in Scotland. It is important to recognise that

it is a lagging indicator. From the point of view of this year, we are

liable to see a very meagre growth. It is likely that that unemployment

will continue to rise for some time this year. You were speaking about

a squeeze on public sector jobs. That is one reason why the total

has gone up. Absolutely. It is important to recognise that the

private sector created some additional jobs in Scotland. That

has not kept pace with the decline in public sector jobs. They have

fell by over 16,000 in the last year. The private sector is capable

of creating jobs. We need to make sure we have that impetus and

support to create more jobs. We are looking to next week's Budget as an

opportunity to do just that. Finance Secretary called for more

bank lending, you would welcome that? Certainly. The Chancellor

said that he would outline a package of support. We need to see

of acceleration of that. We need greater levels of capital support,

particularly for medium-size businesses. That can make a big

difference in terms of growth. We want to work with the Minister for

youth employment, we want to work with her to help business. It is a

difficult issue to solve. It is a crisis, when we see those numbers.

Politicians are talking about college places, apprenticeships,

but you need a steady job after that. Ed looks like those jobs

aren't they? -- it looks like those jobs are they? Given that

background. It is difficult for businesses to take on new people.

Having said that, the facts remain, the private sector in Scotland is

employing almost 8,000 more people than they were last year. We have

to build upon that, and provide solutions. Thank you very much.

Still to come: with David Cameron away in the US, it was left to Nick

Clegg to defend the government that today's Prime Minister's Questions.

What we are doing is sorting out the banking system which she left

in a mess. We are sorting out the public finances which she left in

the mess. We are sorting out the economy. Let's go back to Holyrood.

Willie Rennie, Dr Richard Simpson, and Maureen Watt are standing by.

The SNP took the credit when the rate was lower than the rest of the

UK, now it is higher, are you go to take the blame? -- are you going to

take the blame? They are pretty bad. The SNP are taking measures to try

and do everything we can. We have Angela Constance, we have 30

billion put in to help you unemployment. -- �30 million put in

to help you unemployment. We are doing all we can to help within the

limited powers that we have. have also managed to make massive

cuts to college places, that doesn't help? College places are

being maintained within the cuts. Colleges have guaranteed a they

will maintain the places. You have these college places, and you have

these apprenticeships, but I was saying, these are very short term

measures, what are the long-term measures to make sure there are

jobs for these young people? They are very important measures. We are

making sure that the young people who are trained and ready for work

when these jobs in the private sector are available. It is very

important that these people are retraining and education, to make

sure they are available when the work comes. You must be pretty

worried about these figures. When it comes to talk of the

independence, you need a good economy? You young people are very

upbeat. -- young people are very upbeat. These figures include

students who are in education. We have more students in education

than England. Underneath these figures there are other factors

Dr Richard Simpson, when you were in power you pumped money into the

public sector, ensuring high pay for doctors and nurses etc. What

did you do for the private sector and make sure there was a good

private sector so that when public sector pending is now stripped back,

we see it small private sector in Scotland? It was not doing badly

under Labour either. The fact is, "plan MacB" is not working and the

schemes that Maureen is referring to still denote - might do not

address the gap between UK levels and those here. The number of women

out of work is increasing hugely and so is part-time work. There are

huge problems. It is not entirely the SNP's fault. The coalition and

the budget have to do something about it but the "plan MacB" is

clearly not working. The contracts for the Forth Bridge going abroad

is not going to help our unemployment one bit. Maureen, a

one to pick up on that with you. It was clear from Magritte Cuthbert,

the Economist, that it was clear that these contract were rolled out

in the wrong way and if they had been done in the right way, in

smaller lot, a lot of Scottish companies would have been able to

benefit from that. Why aren't the SNP government trying to provide

God -- jobs with projects like that? This morning, the Investment

committee which I convened, the Forth Bridge committee gave their

feedback and they say that many contract have gone to Scottish and

UK companies and they employ graduate civil engineers and they

are employing apprentices on these contracts. While the contract

itself is too big companies, the smaller projects are being given to

Scottish companies. Willie Rennie from the Liberal Democrats, I think

the sock -- Scottish Secretary said it was a chance -- challenging

climate. What do you think the coalition can reasonably do to help

promote recovery here? What is essential is that we get public

finances back on the straight and narrow and that is what the

coalition is doing because our debt has a big effect on the cost of

borrowing. If the cost goes up, the price of borrowing goes up and

there is less money to spend on capital projects like the Forth

Bridge. It is essential to get public finances back on the

straight and narrow to get the economy back on track. We also have

things like the 1 billion count UK use contract which will build --

bring �100 million extra for job opportunities for young people in

Scotland and that will make a big difference. It is a balancing act

between spending enough to stimulate the economy but not too

much to push up the cost of borrowing. Mr Rennie, where do you

think the power lies? With the UK government or the Scottish

government? He has the most power when it comes to job creation?

Scottish government has an important role to play in terms of

Scottish Enterprise and use opportunities. The �30 million that

Maureen refers to. Also, the UK use contract is important to. I would

hate to say one is more important because it partnership is important.

One other big story at Holyrood. The minimum pricing for alcohol was

a big change in the Labour position today in deciding to abstain. You

have announced a package of measures but why have you decided

to abstain? The pragmatic situation is that it will go through whatever

our position is. We think it will not work as a policy and it does

not have the benefits suggested in the policy. But it will happen

anyway so we have decided to abstain and put forward 14

additional measures in a complementary bill and make the

offer to the government for a reasoned amendment. If they accept

that, we can move forward unanimously and have a real

discussion about the substantial a goal problem in Scotland. We agree

about that. Thank you. We have run out of time.

We will have more on the minimum price for alcohol debate at five

past three. Back in Westminster, we have Nick Clegg and Harriet Harman.

It has been 16 months since Nick lake's last outing at pm Qs so let

us see how he got on -- Prime Minister's Questions. The hardest

hit are young people looking for work and women. The Deputy Prime

Minister says the Lib Dems are making a difference in this

government with more than 1 million women looking for work, what

difference does he believe he has made to those women? Of course,

he's figures are disappointing. It is a personal tragedy for anyone

who loses their job for them and their families. But she should be

careful not to be tended was a problem invented by this government.

Let us remember that unemployment of women went up by 24% under

Labour and youth unemployment went up by a 40% under Labour and

remorselessly since 2004. So we all need to work together to bring

unemployment down. Mr Speaker, when we left government, unemployment

was coming down and their economic policy is not only driving up

unemployment, it means they have to borrow more. It is hurting but it

is not working. For all his bluster, the truth is that having five

Liberal Democrat seated around the Cabinet table has made no

difference whatsoever. Listen to what the Business Secretary said on

economic policy. This government has no compelling vision. These

days no one agrees with Nick but does Nick agree with things?

think is worth dwelling on some of the details are published this

morning on the input aren't -- the unemployment statistics because,

behind the headline figures, long- term unemployment came down and

very importantly, the number of new jobs created in the private sector

out strip those created in the public sector. Under how government,

the Labour Party suck up to the City of London and over relied on

jobs in the public sector. We have to remedy those mistakes and we are

creating new jobs in the private sector. Mr Speaker, he is

complacent about unemployment under his Government and the Lib Dems are

making no difference on unemployment, just as they are

making no difference on the NHS. When it comes to the NHS, the

Deputy Prime Minister of is the things he is doing a stunning job.

So, can he explain why he has failed to persuade the doctors,

nurses, midwives, paediatricians, physiotherapists and the patients?

The Labour Party used to believe... And now they believe in starving

the NHS of cash. Her own manifesto in 2010 said... Order! We must hear

the response from the Deputy Prime Minister. Indeed, her own

manifestos said, to safeguard the NHS in tougher fiscal times, we

need sustained reform. The Labour Party was right then and is wrong

now. What happened? We are proud of what Labour did. More doctors, more

nurses, low were waiting times and greater patient satisfaction. No

one believes him. No wonder he card convince those who work in the

health service, he can't even convince his own conference. Does

he not realise that people are still against this bill because it

I'm sure the Deputy Prime Minister would like to congratulate the city

of Perth. It has been granted city status. There has been cross-party

support for this. Can I thank the Palace and him and his department

for organising this and for this tremendous Award today. These are

the kind of questions I like! It is a good thing and, of course, on

behalf of everyone in the house I would like to convey my

congratulations to all the people in the Pat -- in Perth who worked

so hard to get this accolade. us stay in Westminster and speak to

David Porter. Good afternoon. What is the chat there? Did people think

Nick Clegg looked prime- ministerial?

Although the coalition has been in existence for over two years, it is

only the third time that Nick Clegg has deputised at Prime Minister's

Questions. Normally what happens is that it is William Hague or Nick

Lake takes on the role of fielding questions. David Cameron is in

Washington at the moment so it has fallen today to Nick played and you

can judge for yourself whether you think he did a good job. Topics

they came up were the economy and the health service. We will

concentrate on the economy now. I'm joined by three people with an

interest in Scottish -- Scottish politics. Stewart Hosie, Cathy

Jamieson and Julian Smith for the Conservatives, although he

represents an English constituency. He was recently on the Scottish

Affairs Committee. Julian, you speak on behalf of the coalition

government, how does the government justified unemployment going up

month-by-month? It is disappointing news today and in particular in

Scotland. Use than a crime and figures are not looking as good as

we wanted but the most important thing the UK government can do is

ensure stability economic Lea and nationally and get our debt rates

down and the legacy left by the previous Labour government was

appalling. To support those people who want to invest in the United

Kingdom and create dog -- jobs and that is what the Chancellor will do

in the Budget. We would talk about the Budget in more detail shortly.

Is there enough -- is it enough for there to be economic stability?

Doesn't the economy need to be primed? But where will the money

come from? We were borrowing �1 in every four. We have to focus on

encouraging businesses to invest and encourage people to set up

businesses. Whether it is Scotland or in the UK, we have to do all the

things we can to encourage the United Kingdom Enterprise spirit

and create wealth and jobs. Next week's Budget will be the next step

in doing that. That is a valid point, isn't it? No one wants to

see unemployment going up but you cannot spend money you haven't got?

It is devastating. 103,000 people out of work. The government has to

take this seriously. It cannot go on looking like they believe

unemployment is a price worth paying. These are people's

livelihoods we are talking about. I hope we are much more closely with

the Scottish government who has a responsibility in this area to make

sure young people get the opportunity in a training place for

a job. The problem in Scotland's colleges are not helping, by people

will to be providing the opportunities. Stewart Hosie, there

is a challenge for you in your party to do more. You will say that

you do not have all the levers you would like but you do have some. It

is very worrying that one in four of young Scots people between 16

and 24 are out of a job. It is. May I say that I know how difficult

this is. If you're made redundant and trying to get a job in

difficult circumstances. I have been there. We should reflect how

angry people will be right now if they are in that position. Kathy is

right. We need to do everything we can in the Scottish government and

the UK government whether it is apprenticeships, whether it is

persuading the UK government in the budget next week to invest Direct

budget and Capitol to open up 300 million projects in Scotland that

are ready to go now. Yes we need to tackle the deficit and the debt but

we will not grow the economy and create jobs if we keep cutting to

the extent this coalition government are. That leads us

nicely on to this. You have mentioned you cannot spend money

you don't have, because things be read prioritised? Projects that

help the construction industry, for I think the construction industry

is vital. There has been already summer very strong announcements.

The Ray Green Investment Bank is coming to Edinburgh. There are a

whole sector schemes for young people. I think it is really

important that young people are aware that there is support their,

and I'm sure in next week's Budget there will be more efforts to

create jobs. I know you are particularly concerned at about

youngsters. Is there anything that your party could suggest to the

government that would make a difference? I think it shows how

out of touch the government tears if they think it is a case of the

youngsters looking at this and thinking there are jobs. The

reality is that it is very difficult at the moment. What they

could do, is that they could listen to our five-point plan, which talks

about things we can do, talks about companies taking on additional

staff, they could also figure that a cut in VAT, that would help the

construction industry. I met three m people on the same street, they

were all 18 a, they had all lost their jobs. They were saying, what

can the Government to put the? there is one thing that George

Osborne can do to help Scotland, what would it be? There are three

tasks that the Chancellor has. He needs to get investment moving

again. He needs to create confidence again, which means

keeping people in jobs, and he Muskett lending going for small

businesses. There are other things like National Insurance. I have no

problem with a VAT cut. That is all good stuff. The three big things

are his confidence, lending, and investment. Thank you very much.

The clock has beaten us, but you have heard what the politicians

would like the Chancellor to be saying next week. We will never in

seven days' time whether he has listened. -- we will know in seven

days' time. Let's join the Lorraine Davidson,

once again. -- let's join a Lorraine Davidson. The Prime

Minister will present President Obama with a table tennis table.

The Obamas had given them a growl to commemorate making burgers. --

have given them up a barbecue. The whole special relationship was

developed around Margaret Thatcher and Ronald Reagan. It has been

soured by the Tony Bland and George Bush relationship which took us

into Iraq. -- Tony Blair. There is some coming down in the journalism,

when you have focus on a table tennis table. Actually, at the end

of the day what people are piggy about his troops who are dying in

Afghanistan on a daily basis, and trying to get them out of there. I

am not sure that this is not becoming a massive insult to

people's intelligence. We have focused on choreography, PR, and

presentation. These are two big world leaders, they should be

sitting down and talking about getting out of Afghanistan, and

beyond that, what kind of situation you are leading there? -- leading

the world where. It looks like we had that timetable in 2013. We will

go back to the chamber now. Nicola Sturgeon has just started to stand

up there. There are organisations and

individuals who have shaped the minimum pricing policy. I would

like to thank the Health and Sport Committee, they have scrutinised

our proposals. They came to some considered conclusions. I would

there thank our colleagues from the finance and subordination

committees. They scrutinised the Bill. There have been many

witnesses who have provided invaluable evidence to the

committees. Can I offer some thanks to the Liberal Democrats and the

Conservatives? I had many differences with them, but since

the last boat, and I think to their great credit, have decided to join

the SNP and the Green Party, and give it a chance. Before I turn to

the substance of the report, I want to take some time to remind members

wide the measures contained in this Bill are so important. -- y a the

measures contained a in that this Bill. We're not against drinking,

but we are worried about the problems in excessive consumption

of alcohol. The row the years drinking in Scotland has got out of

kilter, and it needs to be rebalance. -- we need to rebalance

it. There has been a significant shift in how much we drink, and

where we drink. Nearly 70% of alcohol is sold by the off trade,

and this is driven by price and affordability. The average price

was �1.34, compared to just 45p in the off-trade. There has been

wasted are the good shift in the affordability of that other half.

As all of us know, from our constituencies, and from other

sources, excessive drinking is taking its toll on every age group,

every socio-economic group, and every community. He places huge

pressure on our national health service, our police service, about

our local authorities. The costs are immense. �900 for every adult

in the country. Because only tells part of the story. In human terms,

we paid a heavy price. Over the last few decades, liver disease has

doubled, hospital rates have quadrupled. We suffer from alcohol-

related crime and disorder. In 2008, half of all Scottish prisoners

admitted to being drunk when they cause their offence. -- when they

caused their offence. We need to take firm action to rebalance our

relationship with alcohol. I also think it is important to say it

again, as they have done all along, that allow alcohol industry is it

an important part of our economy. We will continue to offer support

to businesses, to grow in the export markets, and we will work

with them to use all of the powers available to reduce the consumption

of alcohol, particularly promoting lower strength product. I am

grateful to the Minister, does the Government's share the view that

this is also a matter which should make us think about the structure

of the alcohol industry? This is an industry we allowed to supply a

recreational drugs around Scotland. We should regulate that industry.

What I would say to Patrick Harvey, I think there are bigger issues to

deal with. I do believe our coal industry has got a great deal to

offer our country and economy. I think it is in their interests, as

much as our interests, to deal with the over-consumption of alcohol.

The point I'm making is that our plans for minimum pricing, and the

other measures, are not mutually exclusive. All of us stand to

benefit from reducing argol related harm. The other contextual. -- the

other point I would like to make, if we have to. Tackle this problem

effectively, we need a robust package of measures. Our proposal

contains 41 separate initiatives. The government cannot do this alone.

Each and every one of us has a role to play, reflecting on our own

drinking, how would affect us, and our families and colleagues. -- how

it affects us. The issue of culture was one that was highlighted. We

are making good progress, and we must continue to make good progress

in implementing this free word fraction -- this framework for

action. We have looked at those amendments published by Labour. But

I am open-minded to anything which can contribute to dealing with this

issue. A I look forward to having discussions about some of those

proposals. My fundamental point is, no strategy will be complete

without addressing price. The link to price and consumption is

irrefutable. When prices go down, people drink more, when they go up,

people drink less. The more people drink, the greater the associated

harm. We need to act decisively to stop the flow of cheaper priced

drinking. It is worth noting that we are joined by a huge range of

interest in this. Doctors, the police, charities, faith groups,

and other political parties. As I've said before, it is not some

sort of magic bullets, which will solve all of our nation's problems

with alcohol. However, it is essential, if we are to make a

scene of a good contribution to reducing consumption. Today's to

say that we should instead be using alcohol duty to raise prices, I

would say this. My argument against that is not that we just have the

powers to do that, even if we did have those powers, it is not

affected as affected pricing. -- it is not as effective as good pricing.

You will see those prices going up. What minimum prices Dyers, it

targets the cheap price alcohol that his more favoured by harmful

drinkers. It is a more targeted approach. It is more proportionate.

I want to turn out to the stage one report. I am pleased that the

committee acknowledged that our relationship with alcohol needs to

be challenged. By MPs that they endorse that the package of

measures. -- I'm pleased that they endorsed the package of measures.

Minimum pricing has a significant contribution to make. There were a

number of things that were highlighted. I have been asked to

give the consideration to a number of things. I am open-minded in

anything that will improve this bill. Particularly around the

evaluation programme. Let me begin by addressing the points made by

the amendments, the sunset clause. We inserted that into the previous

bill. He in the evidence I gave I said that I was open to persuasion

on that matter. Having further consider this, I have come to the

conclusion that it is right and proper for Parliament to have the

opportunity to review the policy after five years. I know that and

then that is bring brought in. I can confirm that the Scot is

governed by the doors that amendment. -- the Scottish

government would endorse that amendment. I can confirm that that

price rationale will be agreed before the stage of three boats. I

would hope to do that through stage to proceedings. We are currently

considering all the evidence in relation to specific minimum price,

be mindful of the need to ensure proportionality. In setting a price,

we will be impacting on the markets, so we need to make sure that that

impact is justified for the level of society benefits that we will

achieve. We were all sacked at the time we clarify the price. We will

say what we intend to do about future reviews of the price to

ensure that he remains at a level The question of notifying the bill

is also addressed. As I said, we are confident the provisions of the

bill are capable of complying with EU law and the bill does not need

to be notified. However, I informed the committee last week that I

intend to set a minimum unit price. There is a need for effective

evaluation of the impact of minimum pricing on different groups of the

population, Business, unintended consequences such as illicit

internet and cross-border sales. I want to confirm our existing and

proposed plans for assessing the impact of minimum pricing and to

ensure -- assure the chamber of comprehensive and robust stance.

Any unintended or displacement effect will be considered. The

impact on business is inevitably more difficult to assess, not least

because of the sensitivities of sharing information that is

commercially sensitive but we are happy to work with business

interests and we will consider very carefully all of the areas

highlighted at stage 1 to insure they are taken into account in our

evaluation programme. To conclude my opening remarks, can I again

thank the health and support -- health and sport committee. I

deeply regret that our previous attempts to introduce minimum

pricing were voted down at the last opportunity but I have always

believe that it is better, wherever possible, for political parties to

reach consensus on public health policies and particularly when they

are as important as minimum pricing. Tackling alcohol misuse is one of

the most important public health challenges facing Scotland today.

The fact that we now have a broad consensus shows how serious all of

us are in our bit to reduce alcohol-related harm. I hope the

remaining members who I get to pledge support will reflect and

decide to back minimum pricing. Presiding officer, I had great

pleasure at this stage in moving that the Parliament agrees the

general principle of the Alcohol (Minimum Pricing) Bill for Scotland.

Let us pick up on some of those issues with Lorraine Davidson. It

is interesting that the Health Secretary was saying she was open

minded to Labour's contribution. No strategy would be complete without

a minimum prize, she said. fairness, she has always been

consensual in her approach to the minimum pricing debate. Even when

the SNP didn't have a majority. There was a genuine one -- desire

to get the Labour politicians on board. They have a good argument in

terms of the caffeine content in dings but they are almost adopting

a non- position in abstaining, the Labour Party, because last time,

people saw the opposition as trying to block this rather than being

constructive politics. Either you get on board and say you are

willing to get - might give it a try and here are our constructive

amendments or you don't. If you don't, you are stuck in a position

where you were stuck prior to the election which is being in

opposition for the sake of it and being abstractionist. They should

reflect on their position and get on board because most people in

Scotland think it might not be the solution to all the problem --

problems, but it needs to be tackled. There is a sense of deja

vu it as Nicola Sturgeon said there was a deep regret the voters --

proposal was voted down last time. I think she genuinely wants the

other parties on board when it is a big public health issue like this.

The bite -- battle might not just be Holyrood but in the EU because

other countries have tried similar policies and they have been voted

illegal by the European Union. What she now needs to ensure is that the

policy would do what she claims and there will be some nervousness that

the need to demonstrate it works. In doing that, the price at which

this is set will be crucial because the EU will strike it down and less

they see the results and Basie it has direct consequences on public

health and it is not just some extra tax they are slapping on.

Thanks very much. Now there are major changes to the

benefits system planned by the UK government and Holyrood's Welfare

Reform Committee sat for the first time yesterday to look at the

proposals. The bill will make changes to Disability Living

Allowance and introduce a universal credit for benefits. Those who

appeared were very much against the changes and want the Scottish

government to do all they can to alleviate the impact. Sarah

Paterson listened in. MSPs yesterday head concerns that

the reforms will increase poverty and that changes to housing benefit

will cost more and how many people disabled people could be affected.

If the UK government were only introducing universal credit and

everyone went in that direction, that would be... But the problem is,

the other bits of the package - the tax changes and where benefits will

beat up dated but not against the RBI - the package as a whole will

be poverty increasing. -- RPI. The figures come from some work that

the IFS did for us. That leaves us in the remarkable situation where

we have the UK government and devolved administrations signed up

to the targets of child poverty reduction and yet we are on track

to miss that target by an order of two-and-a-half times. It is a

staggering reduction in expenditure which would mean that, within two

years, nearly one quarter of a million people would be receiving

less in real terms than they are now. What is particularly

concerning from some previous evidence to the previous committee

was around the lack of ability for anybody new to join the claimants

list for Pip because there is no capacity in the situation -- system

for that. In terms of housing benefit, there is an under

occupancy charged proposed. The net impact of the shortage of supply he

in terms of one-bedroom properties in Scotland and the proposed

response put to Lord Freud and Iain Duncan Smith is that people should

seek accommodation in the rental sector. There is a shortfall of

that in parts of Inverness-shire for example. So the idea that

people would easily be able to downsize by transferring it

themselves from the social rented sector to the private rented sector

is fanciful. Also, it would lead to an increase in housing benefit

spend because rents are high in the private sector. There may be

concern across the board but the bottom line is, Holyrood cannot

stop these changes. The witnesses believe the Scottish government can

try and mitigate some of the negative effect. We know that

places like Glasgow and North Lanarkshire, Dundee, for example,

Arab police three times as honourable -- art at least three

times as vulnerable in terms of the value of welfare spending as a

proportion of the local economic output. We know there are big

variations across Scotland in likely impact and we need to have a

clear sense of what that might been in terms of interacting with local

authorities. They turned into debt, and financial problems that we

expect that to spiral out of control in the next couple of years.

That is why my first point this morning has been backed up by

Richard and Michael and David. We need to learn from what has

happened and try and find an advice service to mitigate an impact in

drop in income for some of the most vulnerable people in Scotland.

key concern at the moment is that the committee has to face an

extremely tight timescale in terms of council tax benefit, for example,

and so it that has to be a priority because these things need to be in

place by 2013. And the SNP government are expected to bring

forward their Scottish Welfare Reform Bill this month and with the

timescale pretty tight it's likely this new legislation could be

passed before the summer recess. Now for one last time to end the

show, my guest Lorraine Davidson. By it is the Budget next week. Do

you think George Osborne might bend a little in his tough talk wait

when it comes to cutting the deficit and the continuing economic

situation? I think he has to. There are two big issues. How do you get

the recovery moving in terms of the private sector, which the Tories

always said would move in and their rapturously pick up the slack when

there is a contraction in the public sector but that hasn't

happened. A lot of businesses are struggling to start-up or expand

because they cannot get the lending from the banks, the banks that week,

the tax payers, are meant to mainly owned. There is a lot of anger

about finance and how the government hasn't used all its

muscle to make sure the banks get the money through to businesses

that are going to create extra jobs or even, frankly, to stay in

business and stop them going under. In terms of the public sector, is

the Government doing enough in terms of capital spending, big

projects in the construction sector and jobs moving in that. The kind

of noises that Scottish government have been making for the last

couple of years are of the kind of things that have to be taken on

board by George Osborne. Anything on fuel, do you think? I don't know

because the problem with that is a big motoring lobby and people need

fuel simply to get to work so he will be aware of that. He has had

to climbdown over fuel in the past in rural areas. But he cannot

afford to give up too much of the duty.

Thank you very much for joining me this afternoon. That's all we've