20/02/2014 Politics Scotland


20/02/2014

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Hello there and a warm welcome to the Scottish parliament here at

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Holyrood. The main talking point is David Bowie's survives -- surprise

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intervention in the Scottish independence debate. Apparently he

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reckons that the UK is hunky-dory. It has caused a bit of a fuss, of

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course. But Alex Salmond reckons it is a god-awful small affair. Let go

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to First Minister's Questions. To ask the First Minister what

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engagement he has planned for the rest of the day. Presiding officer,

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I am sure the whole chamber will want to join me in congratulating

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Eve Muirhead and the rink on winning the bronze medal at the Winter

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Olympics. That is a demonstration that we can all be heroes just for

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one day. And of course those of us on this side would of course

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congratulate the corners. We are very proud of them as Scots and part

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of team GB. Can I ask the First Minister to turn and face the

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strain? In the past seven days, the shadow -- Chancellor, the Shadow

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Chancellor, the Chief Secretary of the Treasury, the ST you see, the

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CBI and the Institute of Directors have all said that both plans a and

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B for the currency are nonstarters. The president of the EU commission

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and the president of the EU Council said his plans were at best

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extremely difficult. The First Minister has just insult them.

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Order. Perhaps you didn't realise he was insulting people instead of

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arguing with them. Can the First Minister explain to us why David

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Bowie is preposterous, bluffing and bullying? I think in terms of

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insult, most people in Scotland would feel that George Osborne

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insulted the intelligence of the Scottish people. This may be the

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last time, and probably the only time, that I will quote the Daily

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Mail. But I think when Joanne Clement -- Joanne Lamont is facing

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headlines in the Daily Mail, there may be a reasonable conclusion that

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the indications we have so far are that the joint enterprise between

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George Osborne and Ed Balls has backfired on the two unionist

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parties in spectacular fashion. I watched television the other night

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and I saw Gordon Brown walk off an interview on STV because he was

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asked whether Ed Balls was wise to make an alliance with George

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Osborne. I have never seen him walk off an interview. Perhaps people in

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the Labour Party should realise the damage that has been done to them by

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standing hand in glove with the likes of George Osborne. Perhaps the

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First Minister might reflect on the damage being done to this parliament

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by the insults he presents to our intelligence and the people of

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Scotland about the way in which he dismisses those who disagree with

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him. It takes an extraordinary lack of self-awareness for the First

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Minister to accuse other people of not telling the truth as a

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campaigning tactic. Truly, as you live your life, you judge your

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neighbour. The fact of the matter is, these are too serious for the

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First Minister to insult us in this way. This week, Alex Salmond, Nicola

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Sturgeon and John Swinney have been repeatedly asked to put a figure on

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the transaction costs to British business that will come with giving

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up the pound in the event of a Yes vote, but have refused to come up

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with an answer. But the Scottish Parliament information Centre has

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come up with some numbers. Transaction costs for the rest of

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the UK, the so-called George tax, work at ?9 per head for people in

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England, Wales and Northern Ireland. But if the Scottish Government's own

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figures are to be believed, the cost in Scotland would be ?75 per head.

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Eight times greater. No wonder they wouldn't and so the question. Given

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this would be the consequence of his plan to break up the United Kingdom,

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why should Scottish business pay the Alex tax? Our proposal is to share

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the pound. And not have the transaction cost. It is her proposal

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that would force Scotland into a different currency and forced

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transaction costs on Scottish and English business. The point that was

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being made by the Scottish Government is a reasonable one. I

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don't think English taxpayers would take kindly to being forced to pay

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the George or Joan tax. I don't think Joanne Lamont would want her

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name attached to the same tax as George Osborne. I said earlier this

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would be the only time I would quote the Daily Mail. I am going to quoted

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again! Twice in one session! I do apologise for quoting Labour's house

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journal, but nonetheless I notice another aspect of the poll this

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morning showed that our proposal to share the pound was the most pop-up

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-- popular proposal among the Scottish people. Does that not

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suggest that perhaps there is a resonance in support of what we are

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saying, and the Labour Party are struggling because of their

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association with the Conservative Party? I hope Joanne Lamont

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continues with this because I may go for the hat-trick and start talking

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about the party ratings that bad poll indicates. The Labour Party

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have done themselves huge damage by associating with the Conservatives,

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and in particular, George Osborne. The reaction of the Scottish people

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to being told, instructed, from on high that our currency, the currency

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that we jointly built up, actually does not belong to us, it belongs to

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George Osborne, I think it is entirely understandable and will be

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deeply uncomfortable for the Labour Party in Scotland.

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If we're talking about associations with Tories, it is only the SNP who

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want to cut tax by 3p more than any Tory Chancellor. 3p more! If we are

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talking about polls, the same poll, the same poll says that two thirds

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of the people in this country want to know what the First Minister

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proposal is for a plan B for the currency, and it is about time he

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told us. The reality is this. The rest of the United Kingdom,

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including Carwyn Jones, have said they do not want a currency union.

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They don't want a currency union. You can art -- you cannot make them

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have a currency union if you are not in the same country. What do you not

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understand? What do you not understand? What does the First

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Minister not understand about his proposal to take Scotland out of the

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United Kingdom? It has come to this, presiding officer. The Scottish

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Government, as we have seen, is prepared to deny, deflect, assert an

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insult in order to win this referendum. -- and insult. They want

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to keep a currency union, and unfettered single market without

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transaction costs. They say they want to keep borrowing costs in line

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with current levels. They say they want to stay in the EU with a rebate

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on the current opt out. And then they ask, what is the positive case

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for the union? Isn't the truth that the only way we guarantee keeping

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those things is by staying in the United Kingdom? Well, I will support

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Joanne Lamont's call for a calm and considered debate. We look forward

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to these things! The fiscal commission says the best option for

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Scotland and the rest of the United Kingdom is to share the currency.

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That was the basis on which the commission working group put forward

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that policy. I think that is the right policy. I think it is the

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right policy for Scotland. I think it is the right policy for the rest

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of the United Kingdom. Can I say to Joanne Lamont, the debate has moved

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on, has it not? I was looking at the website for the Scotsman today in

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terms of evidence being presented. Scottish independence were also

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incorrect on the EU. Jim Carrey, former Director-General, says that

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he was extremely unwise and incorrect. If that is not enough,

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the speech in Ireland of the Secretary-General of the

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commission. Should it vote for independence? She said that Commons

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over the weekend had been misunderstood. -- comments. Perhaps

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the comparison between Scotland and Kosovo was perhaps not the wisest

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comparison to make. Evidence has been presented in significant form

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by people as eminent as... It shows absolutely that Scotland, who have

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been part of this European Union for 40 years, the build-up rights and

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entitlements as part of that structure, who conform to the

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democratic imperatives that the EU represent, of course we are entitled

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to our rights as European citizens. And the idea that the rest of Europe

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is wanting to deny us these rights is a total illusion talked up by the

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Unionist parties. Scotland is a European nation and we shall

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continue to be a European nation. The real problem with this is that

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the First Minister only listens to people who agree with him. And it

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works. It works. It works in here. But it doesn't work in the rest of

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the world. It is not in the First Minister's gift to tell people in

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England, in Northern Ireland, in Wales, in Europe, what is in their

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best interest. It is in their gift. And he has to deal with that. The

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permanent Secretary to the Treasury has rejected the currency union. So

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too has the Chancellor, the Shadow Chancellor and the Chief Secretary

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to the Treasury. The CBI, the Institute of Directors and the

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Scottish TUC. It is not good enough simply to listen to yourself. You

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have to accept other people have a credible position. The president of

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the EU commission and the president of the Council of ministers have

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said that Scotland getting an agreement of all the other member

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states after a yes vote would be extremely difficult, if not

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impossible. Business cost of ?75 per head. Average mortgages up and

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eyewatering ?100 a week. And I am sure people across the country will

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reflect how little seriousness the SNP backbencher is put on the

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consequences for ordinary people. So despite all of this the First

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Minister still simply steams ahead. Isn't it the case that the only

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preposterous bullying bluffer in this fight is the First Minister?

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Can I quote from Professor Christine Bell, constitutional Professor of

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law at Edinburgh University? I have no knowledge of her politics.

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Whether she agrees with me or not. She says, legally under

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international law the position is clear. If the remainder of the UK

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keeps the name and status of the UK, it keeps its liabilities for the

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debt. Scotland cannot therefore default. As Joanne Lamont knows, we

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have set out in the White Paper our proposal that we should share the

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assets and liabilities of the United Kingdom. We think that is the fair

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and responsible thing to do. One of these assets is, of course, the Bank

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of England, which was nationalised in 1946. It is undoubtedly a

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national public asset. We think that is a fair proposition to put

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forward. What we pointed out is that the implication, in fact, the

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certainty, because the Treasury had to state this to the market last

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month, that if you argue, as the UK and the Treasury are now doing, all

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of these eminent people that Joanne Lamb and has cited, they are the

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legitimate state, they keep the assets of the united kingdom. It

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follows that they end up with the liabilities. The reason that I

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believe George Osborne and Ed Balls are bluffing is not just that it

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would be against the interests of the English people to impose

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transaction costs into Scotland, it is that I don't believe we will get

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to a situation where George Osborne wants to make every person in

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Scotland ?25,000 richer, which is what would happen if the UK had to

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accept all of the national debt. Order! Unlike Joanne Lamb and, I

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would find agreeing with George Osborne extremely uncomfortable. --

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Joanne Lamont. That is why the Labour Party is suffering serious

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and perhaps permanent damage in Scotland by their alliance with the

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Conservative Party. I want to ask the First Minister when he will meet

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the Secretary of State for Scotland? No current plans but we might both

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be in the Aberdeen area on Monday. I'm sure the First Minister's hotel

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will be of a higher standard. On one side of the argument we have Alex

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Salmond, on the other side of the argument we have everyone else and

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hasn't his response today been telling? As if to make my point for

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me, thank you very much. The First Minister of Wales says he does not

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want a currency union with an independent Scotland and he is

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ignored. The permanent Treasury says he will not advise one and he is

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dismissed. The Chancellor and his opposite number said they could not

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support this for the UK, and it is a bluff. Alex Salmond's independence

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allies say they want a set its currency and be sidelined. The CBI

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and Institute of to say the risk is unacceptable and be Unionist

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stooges. The rest of the people in the UK say no also. And they are

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ignored this week. The First Minister may be in denial, but the

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rest of the country has woken up. Isn't this the week we find out the

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emperor has got no clothes. Far be it from me to remind Ruth Davidson

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the fiscal commission working group contained two Nobel laureates. As

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well as other eminent economists. It is interesting in that reference,

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because when Mark Carney gave his excellent speech in Edinburgh a few

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weeks ago, he only mentioned two economists, one was Adam Smith, and

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we agree he is a great founder of the economic science and the second

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economist Mark Carney cited was Sir James Merrill ease. Do you think he

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was unaware he was one of the authors of the fiscal commission

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working group on whose recommendations we acted on? She

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shakes her head but she started her question by saying nobody agreed

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with me. I am pointing out a Nobel laureate economist put forward the

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proposition. And the poll indicates today having halved that what ever

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else she might say the Scottish people do not agree with George

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Osborne. The sand is shifting beneath his feet as he stands up and

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speaks. We have made our choice, we want a strong Scotland in a strong

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United Kingdom. That already gives us the currency union he desperately

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wants to keep and gives a political and social union. He wants to pick

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and mix when everyone knows that they can't. The First Minister said

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he quoted the Daily Mail so I will quote the Guardian. In the

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contradictions it says, Alex Salmond and company are acting like spoiled

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children. On the currency he is weak, on pensions he is weak,

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un-European is weak, on the basic facts he is weak. He is weak, weak,

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weak. Isn't it true he is the man with no plan? Ruth Davidson is a

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week every week. Higher praise I cannot give than the new chairman of

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the Scottish Conservative Association asked this week to

:20:03.:20:07.

assess a Ruth Davidson's performance. He said she was, "

:20:08.:20:15.

improving". If you cannot get the endorsement of the new chairman of

:20:16.:20:18.

your own party, you are not in a strong position. Perhaps Ruth

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Davidson should draw this a line in the sand. The line in the sand might

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be, we should have a look at the attitudes of the Scottish people as

:20:32.:20:35.

we currently understand them. We can think of a number of things about

:20:36.:20:40.

the best constitutional options for Scotland, but there is little doubt

:20:41.:20:45.

the reaction to having things led down from on high by George Osborne

:20:46.:20:52.

has been somewhat negative, for the improving Scottish Conservative

:20:53.:20:58.

Party. It may not be of any great moment to the Conservatives and some

:20:59.:21:03.

of the backbenchers were described as coasting in the same article. All

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of them are coasting. The Conservative Party have little to

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lose, but you are dragging down this lot with you. Guilt by association.

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To ask the First Minister what issues will be discussed at the next

:21:25.:21:29.

meeting of the Cabinet? We will discuss issues of importance to the

:21:30.:21:34.

people of Scotland. The First Minister has put on his best poker

:21:35.:21:39.

face this week. But they might not be bluffing. There could be a

:21:40.:21:45.

separate Scottish currency. His own fiscal commission thinks it could be

:21:46.:21:52.

a possibility, John Cain knows it, Patrick Harvie and Dennis Caravan

:21:53.:21:57.

want it. The First Minister is the last man standing refusing to

:21:58.:22:02.

concede. Will he take this opportunity to confirm a Scottish

:22:03.:22:07.

currency is a possibility? He has a duty to make a statement to

:22:08.:22:11.

Parliament this week or next week, so people in Scotland know where

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they stand. Will he do that? Did you notice the first date meant that

:22:20.:22:25.

question when he said, might be bluffing. I think this is an

:22:26.:22:33.

improvement. I think Willie Rennie in that traditional, liberal

:22:34.:22:36.

tradition of on the one hand this and on the other hand that, doesn't

:22:37.:22:43.

display the same certainty as the Conservative and Labour Party

:22:44.:22:45.

alliance. As Willie Rennie should know, the fiscal commission working

:22:46.:22:51.

group set out a range of options for the currency options of an

:22:52.:22:54.

independent Scotland. They said these options were viable given the

:22:55.:22:57.

strength of the Scottish economy. They recommended the best option

:22:58.:23:03.

Scotland and the rest of the UK is the currency union we propose. We

:23:04.:23:08.

propose that is the one that will be negotiated because it is in the best

:23:09.:23:13.

interests of Scotland and it is most certainly in the best interest of

:23:14.:23:17.

the rest of the UK, who will not want to be lumbered with the whole

:23:18.:23:25.

of the UK national debt. Despite all of the opinion, including on his

:23:26.:23:32.

side, he cannot even say it might be a possibility. He cannot hide on

:23:33.:23:39.

that until September. It will be the Chancellor, after a yes vote, if

:23:40.:23:45.

that was to happen, who will have to convince about a currency union. The

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First Minister's plan is based on the judgement of that Chancellor.

:23:52.:23:55.

And that Chancellor is George Osborne. This is a man he derides

:23:56.:24:00.

for his judgement every day of the week. The First Minister is gambling

:24:01.:24:06.

that George Osborne will transform from his belligerent barbarian to

:24:07.:24:13.

this pacifist puppy, arch enemy to best friend in a day. But they don't

:24:14.:24:21.

think that is going to happen. Two out of three people in the poll he

:24:22.:24:24.

likes to talk about today, once the First Minister to set out his

:24:25.:24:30.

alternative. Why is he ignoring them? If he is a pacifist puppy, I

:24:31.:24:36.

would not dream of using such language, and Mr Danny Alexander who

:24:37.:24:43.

gave evidence to the Parliamentary committee yesterday seems to be the

:24:44.:24:49.

shadow to the Chancellor of the Exchequer at the moment. The

:24:50.:24:55.

preferred option is our option of a currency union between Scotland and

:24:56.:24:58.

the rest of the United Kingdom. I don't think it is me who would have

:24:59.:25:03.

said Danny Alexander or George Osborne to see that in the best

:25:04.:25:07.

interests, it is facing up to the realities of the debt for the rest

:25:08.:25:11.

of the UK and I hope transaction costs north and south of the border

:25:12.:25:17.

are not a good thing for business. I have this vision of George Osborne,

:25:18.:25:22.

Ed balls and Danny Alexander after independence, who will be on our

:25:23.:25:27.

side, of course. But Ed Balls and George Osborne going to businesses

:25:28.:25:33.

in and North saying we're going to you transaction costs to export

:25:34.:25:37.

goods to Scotland, come and vote for us. I don't think that is credible.

:25:38.:25:45.

I keep saying, because of Willie Rennie, I don't think he is a lost

:25:46.:25:49.

soul. I do detect a bit more reasonableness in terms of his

:25:50.:25:53.

approach to things. But I did ink it was unreasonable for Danny Alexander

:25:54.:25:59.

to say independent Scotland's bond rates would be higher. 2.8 cents,

:26:00.:26:07.

Switzerland 1.1%, Austria 1.9%, Sweden 2.3%. There is a lot of

:26:08.:26:14.

evidence small, independence countries across Europe pay lower

:26:15.:26:18.

interest rates than the United Kingdom at the present moment. To

:26:19.:26:28.

ask the First Minister when Scottish government met representatives of

:26:29.:26:36.

Kozlov. It is part of the commitment to working in partnership and local

:26:37.:26:42.

governments. One of the issues ministers are considering is a

:26:43.:26:47.

request to freeze the funding forum on local authorities, something I

:26:48.:26:50.

know which is of interest to Maureen Watt. I thank the First Minister.

:26:51.:26:56.

They have asked the Scottish Government to freeze the funding

:26:57.:27:00.

formula. A decision I believe supported by Aberdeen City Council

:27:01.:27:04.

and Labour councils throughout Scotland. As I understand it, they

:27:05.:27:09.

cannot revisit this without a change to their standing orders and we see

:27:10.:27:14.

Aberdeen and other Labour councils throwing their dummies out of the

:27:15.:27:19.

plan. Can the First Minister set out what it will mean for Aberdeen and

:27:20.:27:24.

what the impact will be on funding for Aberdeen if the Scottish

:27:25.:27:26.

Government accept Kozlov's requests? It is Kozlov who have put

:27:27.:27:33.

forward this proposal, I understand by a narrow majority. John Swinney

:27:34.:27:39.

has considered this and will write to them outlining the impact of the

:27:40.:27:47.

planned freeze as they propose in comparison to distributing the

:27:48.:27:50.

funding local authorities would receive if we use the same method

:27:51.:27:54.

that has been in place since 1983. I will write to Maureen Watson shortly

:27:55.:27:59.

setting out the position of Aberdeen City Council and her constituency.

:28:00.:28:04.

It is worth noting it was this SNP government in 2011 which introduced

:28:05.:28:12.

a funding floor. After eight years of total in action by the previous

:28:13.:28:17.

labour, liberal executive, and that means it ensures Aberdeen currently

:28:18.:28:21.

receives a better deal than it would have had if that measure had not

:28:22.:28:26.

been introduced. I will write to her shortly pointing out the

:28:27.:28:30.

implications of what has come forward, as we understand it,

:28:31.:28:35.

supported by Aberdeen Council. Given the confirmed withdrawals from

:28:36.:28:41.

Kozlov and the speculation of other local authorities, does the First

:28:42.:28:45.

Minister have a view to the point it does not represent authorities in

:28:46.:28:51.

Scotland and is there a contingency plan how the government will engage

:28:52.:28:55.

with local authorities should that reach such a point? We discussed

:28:56.:29:04.

this at Cabinet on Tuesday and we have considered the prospect. The

:29:05.:29:09.

member is right to raise the question, because as he probably

:29:10.:29:14.

knows there is a time period between signalling and intention to leave

:29:15.:29:17.

the organisation and that leaving taking effect. Therefore, it would

:29:18.:29:26.

be in the best interests if we took counsel on it and allow the

:29:27.:29:29.

individual councils to come to their consideration. But it would be

:29:30.:29:33.

helpful to some of the councils if we set out the indicative position

:29:34.:29:37.

that would have arisen if the same funding formula that has been

:29:38.:29:43.

applied since the 1980s had been applied in the year after next. We

:29:44.:29:47.

have to take this proposal always done. But it is important all of the

:29:48.:29:57.

councils understand and know the implications of what some of them

:29:58.:30:00.

seem to have voted for as part of the considerations within the Labour

:30:01.:30:06.

group. Thank you presiding officer. As local government resources shift

:30:07.:30:12.

evermore away from local taxation and towards the block grants, that

:30:13.:30:15.

being a bigger proportion of local government resorts because central

:30:16.:30:22.

government decisions, surely the tensions in the block grant will get

:30:23.:30:29.

worse. Isn't it clear that the freeing up of local government to

:30:30.:30:32.

make local decisions, particularly on local taxation is an absolutely

:30:33.:30:36.

necessary part of this debate for the longer term if we want local

:30:37.:30:41.

government to be government? There we have it, coming to the

:30:42.:30:45.

close of coverage of questions to the First Minister. Substantial

:30:46.:30:49.

exchanges over the currency with all of the leaders joining in that. And

:30:50.:30:53.

closing with the financial situation effect in councils. From me,

:30:54.:30:56.

goodbye.

:30:57.:31:01.

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