20/06/2013 Politics Scotland


20/06/2013

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final week before the recess, but you know something, I don't think

:00:37.:00:40.

that will change anything about the nature of the questions to the First

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Minister today. Welcome to the floor of the chamber, where we are

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currently hearing from the finance secretary, who is answer in

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questions about air passenger duty and golf tourism. We are shortly

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going to hear a question from Stuart McMillan, they are SNP member for

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the West of Scotland, who will be asking the Government if they have

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time to take that question about what recent discussions it has had

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with the UK Government regarding immigration. Unfortunately, we are

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not going to go to that question, we are going to go straight to First

:01:16.:01:26.
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Minister 'sQuestions. Let's go to the chamber.

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Thank you. That brings us to the next eight business, which is First

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Minister ministers Questions. Leicester number one. -- question

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number one. I would like to ask the First Minister what engagement he

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has plans for the rest of the day. Plans to take forward education for

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Scotland. Thank you. John Swinney will remember questions regarding

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the state pension in a separate Scotland. This week, in public, John

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Swinney promise not just a State Pension, but one that would go up

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just by 2.5% per year, but said nothing... It is easy to say it. He

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said nothing about the age of retirement. Can the First Minister

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explain how John Swinney got from questioning the affordability of

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pensions to this new policy, what is the cost of the new policy and how

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will those Cosby mac? -- how will those costs be met? I would just

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lead to point out that one of the key areas that the Government has

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brought forward is that welfare spending in Scotland is less as a

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proportion of our national economy than it is for the UK at the present

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moment. The welfare budget is more affordable in Scotland than some

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people regard it as across the UK. Given the wholesale desertion of the

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cause of universal benefits and welfare policy by the Labour Party

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in recent weeks, the acceptance of the Tory plans from the Shadow

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Chancellor, I think this is the very last subject that Joanne Lamont

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should be commenting on. Can I just point out the triple guarantee, the

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guarantee of the triple locks that would be present, I think it is an

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excellent thing to give reassurance, but the whole basis of the guarantee

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is that it is exactly that. It is a guaranteed in terms of getting

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pensioners the best deal possible, which is what the SNP are committed

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to doing. If the First Minister wanted to be credible, he could at

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least make an effort and answer the question. And he says, this is the

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last question I should ask. It is the first question that many

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pensioners and others across this country are asking. You know, when I

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was studying my exams at school, I remember that you had to do the

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maths, show the working, before you reach the answer. And what John

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Swinney did this week was simply ignore what he said before and gave

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an answer with no credible working at all. For whatever the real cost

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of this pension policy, we know it has cost the credibility of John

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Swinney, and now the Government itself. Because we live in the real

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world. In private, the Cabinet doubts the affordability of the

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State Pension. If their public words are to have any credibility, surely

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they must now be able, to date, to tell us how it would be afforded. I

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ask again. How did the Government moved from questioning the

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affordability of the State Pension to this new policy of guaranteed

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rises for all and what will it cost? Then perhaps this time Joanne

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Lamont will appreciate the significance of the information the

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Government published demonstrating that the welfare budget as a

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proportion of Scotland's national wealth is less, proportionally, that

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the welfare budget as a proportion of the UK, therefore making welfare

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more affordable in Scotland. Given the guarantee that we have given and

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it is current policy until the labour policy revise it, then of

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course we can put that forward for the security of all the pensioners

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in Scotland. Now, Joanne Lamont says this is the first question

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pensioners will ask. I will tell you what pensioners are asking in

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Scotland at the moment. They are asking that their bus pass is safe.

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They are asking about free personal care, because Joanne Lamont is not

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only unable, like Ed Balls, to commit to the public welfare

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budget, she is challenging the basic fabric of the achievements of

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devolution and the great games for pensioners across Scotland. Thank

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you, First Minister. Joanne Lamont. On the bus pass, it helps to have a

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bus to go with it. Do you know, there are people across the country

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who believe that next year we're going to have a serious debate about

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the future Scotland. From that showing, the First Minister is

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incapable of convincing anyone, anyone, that he has even remotely

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thought about the things that really matter to families across the

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country. We know why the First Minister can be so relaxed about

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pensions. By my reckoning, he has five, and they are all backed by the

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UK Government. He has a civil service pension, an MP pension, and

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MSP pension, his First Minister 's pension, and we should not forget,

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and we should not forget... I am very grateful for the pension I have

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got, but we should not forget, presumably, as Royal Bank of

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Scotland pension, and he should thank Gordon Brown for saving that

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one. So we now... We now that he will be all right. But he is

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prepared to put everyone else at risk. For pensions now and in the

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future -- for pensioners now and in the future to believe that the SNP

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is so certain that the State Pension is affordable, and the First

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Minister tell us know how much money he will have to race to find it and

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how much it will cost? Show us the workings, not just the answer.

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Firstly, I think pensioners watching this broadcast, mentioning the words

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Gordon Brown, whose raid on pensions destroyed the pensions of people

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across this country, just indicates the insensitivity of the Labour

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Party. Let me try this again for Joanne Lamont. Because of the

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workings of the Scottish Government has produced, the welfare budget as

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is share of Scotland's national wealth is less and therefore more

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affordable than the welfare budget across the UK. Therefore, our plan

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is affordable. It is more affordable in Scotland. It is an essential part

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of the contract of society with pensioners. Other things are an

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essential part of that as well. I take from Joanne Lamont 's question

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that the bus pass is in danger from the Labour Party. Let's be clear.

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What did they say when they set up the cuts commission? Nothing is off

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the table. People should hear loud and clear, not just the bus pass,

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tuition fees, the whole social contract of devolution is now under

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threat from the party which once cared about working people. No

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longer are the working people or pensions cared for by them, they are

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hot in pursuit of their alliance with the Tory party. Thank you.

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Joanne Lamont. My goodness. We have asked a simple question. He says it

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is evident. Share it with us, share with us what it will cost. I think

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that any pensioner, any family worried about their children's

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future, will look at this broadcast as he calls it today, and wonder how

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it is possible for a First Minister to offer a future which does not

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look simply more like a leap in the dark on the fundamental issues

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facing families. It is no wonder, not even his own SNP candidate in

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Aberdeen Donside believes there is a chance of the First Minister winning

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referendum. Not even his own economic advisers find him credible.

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His noble laureate says he is wrong on corporation tax. And only last

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May, Professor John Kay laid out why he has got his policy on the

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currency wrong. The Institute Of Chartered Accountants Of Scotland

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says there is a �170 billion hole in his plans for private pensions. The

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First Minister simply cannot tell us how he will afford the State

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Pension. This is an absolute failure, an absolute failure of

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office, to be unable to answer those most basic questions. The reality is

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that the First Minister has no credibility... I am glad you have

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something to laugh about, because for the rest of us, this is far from

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:10:57.:10:58.

funny. Order!If politics was about slogans and shouting, you would do

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fine. Order!The fact of the matter is, on something as fundamental as

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the future of this country, the First Minister has no detail and no

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facts. Is it that is that the only way to protect your pension is to

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pension off Alex Salmond next September? First Minister.In case

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Joanne Lamont did not hear it properly, somebody merely suggested

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it should have been Higher maths. The total wealth of Scotland, the

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total product of Scotland and the only spent on welfare, that is less

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of the percentage in Scotland than it is across the UK. Thus far, is

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that correct? That is correct, and accepted. Therefore, the

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affordability of that welfare budget, the Government part of which

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is pensions, is therefore more recordable in Scotland than it is in

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the United Kingdom as a whole. That seems a reasonable position. I think

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most higher grade Higher maths students would manage to get that.

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In terms of the pension black holes, can I return to Mr Brown? The

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pension black holes that afflict the United Kingdom were created by

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Gordon Brown in his raid on pensioners. And in terms of policy

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to pensioners, what pensioners are looking for our guarantees on the

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bus pass, guarantees on free personal care, and this party gives

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these guarantees. With Labour, everything is up for grabs, and as

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far as Aberdeen Donside is concerned, not perhaps the Labour

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Party 's strongest suit because Aberdeen Donside will be voting

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today to keep their schools open. Question number two, with Davidson.

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-- Ruth Davidson. Thank you. I would like to as the First Minister when

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he next plans to meet the Prime Minister. I have no plans for that

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at the moment. Yesterday parents courageously came in here to launch

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an inquiry to find out what happened to the ashes of their babies. It

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spreads to crematoriums across Edinburgh, Aberdeen, and Glasgow. We

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have now learned that a number of families use the facility in Falkirk

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have been affected, as have a number of families using a private

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crematorium. The Government 's response has been overtaken by

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events. Does the First Minister recognise that neither of the

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investigations into these tragedies will give the answer is that these

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parents need? Can I first say that, let's just accept that everyone in

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this Parliament has the greatest sympathy and empathy for the parents

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involved. I suspect that people across the country... My mother, and

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this is common in many families, has experienced this. If you add to this

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the extremity of not knowing about the disposal of a child ashes, then

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every person, every human person, understands her parents feel in

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those circumstances, or at least has the empathy to try and understand

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how parents feel. That is shared across this entire parliament. The

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question is how best to be proceed to get clearance the answers they

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need? And of course, importantly, to try and change the policy which has

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prevailed in the past perhaps, but nonetheless has prevailed, certainly

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in Glasgow and perhaps in other areas across Scotland. First, on the

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Commission. With the backing of that Commission, the leader has indicated

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that he is confident that he can make proper recommendations by the

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end of this year. He says that is the case, and if it is the case,

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then I think that would be a huge step forward. It would be adding

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pages for us to be able to legislate next year. The average length of

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public inquiry in Scotland is three and a half years. The two that we

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have sanctioned have not finished at this stage. That would be an asset,

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if it would be to -- if it were to be the case. Secondly, the

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investigations. I have a letter sent to Michael Matheson this week where

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it is pointed out, because this question has been raised, the

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enquiries have been hampered by the status of her investigation. She

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says, my investigations have not been hampered, I have not received

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any indication there will be any such issue. If we can get answers to

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satisfy hopefully the vast majority of parents, presumably, the same

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sort of enquiry, the same sort of investigation as set out by Lord

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Bonomy in his letter last week, could affect the other areas of

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Scotland. Again, if that is not possible, if the formal border could

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does encounter obstacles and cannot get to the truth, I would be the

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first person, just like the Bonomy Commission, to see if further steps

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have to be taken. Let's try and conduct this answer to the anguish

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of parents in a way that accepts every single member in this

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chamber, so we feel empathy and understanding for the

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circumstances. About candy empathy, sympathy and

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understanding of the First Minister -- I welcome. But the First Minister

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knows that the Bonomy Commission is not looking at individual cases, it

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will not give answers historically to what happened to parents in this

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situation in different parts of the country. The investigation May in

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Edinburgh, but it does not address what is happening elsewhere, and the

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idea that the Edinburgh investigation could in some way be

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looked at or replicated in the local authority areas has been skewered

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this week by the Chief Executive of Glasgow City Council, who wrote this

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week saying, we believe that in order to find out the truth of what

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happened in individual cases, it would be better for there to be a

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nationwide enquiry, rather than a host of local enquiries. The First

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Minister has repeatedly sidestepped calls for a public enquiry. Two

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weeks ago, he said the Pirate Dashti said the priority was Lord Bonomy

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putting these procedures in place, and three weeks ago he said it was

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right local authorities look at this individual. Dashti said the

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priority. But this scandal has spread to public and private

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crematorium in at least four local authority areas. Parents, knowing

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how long it will take, are still calling for an enquiry to find out

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what happened to their babies. And now we have ahead of Scotland's

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largest local authority saying the current approach is not enough and

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he wants more. I have repeatedly said this is not a particle -- a

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party political issue, but there is no getting away from the fact the

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only party not supporting calls for an enquiry as the SNP. -- is the

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SNP. I do not think parents would particularly like calls from in

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here. The parents do not understand, and now the do I, the SNP demanded a

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full public enquiry into the genuine ferry -- and now the do I. -- Dunoon

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ferry. Why is the case of these parents less deserving?

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This Government has sanctioned a full public enquiry. None of the

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:19:22.:19:22.

enquiries run trivial issues -- or on trivial issues. Thomsons

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solicitors, who represents some of the parents, are advocating for

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additional public enquiries in Scotland. The baby Ashes enquiry,

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legionnaires enquiry, and implants enquiry. I believe if on a major

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public issue only a public enquiry can get answers and justice that

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people deserve, I will not hesitate to sanction a public enquiry. That

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in this instance, we have the hope and belief that Lord Bonomy, who

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this week wrote to the local authorities around Scotland,

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including two George back of Glasgow Council, setting out how in local

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enquiry can set out an enquiry -- George Black. And setting out

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guidance. They have to be cut -- carried out independently and

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sensitive to the concerns of families. If that is possible for

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the enquiry in Edinburgh, why not for an enquiry in Glasgow? I do not

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understand why something can be done in Edinburgh, but not in Glasgow.

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But the report by Lord Bonomy, which is open to submission, will provide

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the guidance and regulations we can now introduced to stop this

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happening again, and this could be done by the end of the dear, he is

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confident he can report with the commission that he has any expertise

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-- of the year. This includes the two charities representing the

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bereaved, to put forward recommendations. If the enquiry in

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Edinburgh can get to the bottom of the cases to the satisfaction of

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parents, why can this not done elsewhere? What if Lord Bonomy is

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not able to come up with the recommendations we can endorse as a

:21:12.:21:18.

Parliament to stop this happening again, if there are obstacles in the

:21:18.:21:23.

individual enquiries in Edinburgh, and this cannot command the

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confidence, I will be the first to say, in that circumstance, we have

:21:27.:21:33.

to go for a public enquiry or some other recourse. But the full

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expectation that I have at this present moment is that Lord Bonomy

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will give us the recommendations to bring into legislation in Scotland

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next year to show that this will not happen again, and the former Lord

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Advocate should command confidence when she says she can conduct this

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investigation independently in Edinburgh. And if it can be done in

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Edinburgh, it can most certainly be done elsewhere in Scotland.

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What issues will be discussed at the next meeting of the Cabinet?

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Issues of importance to the people of Scotland.

:22:09.:22:15.

Four years ago, I joined families in West Fife against proposals to

:22:15.:22:19.

extract coal from the neighbouring feels. We lost, permission was

:22:19.:22:27.

granted. Residents were assured by developers the industry had learned

:22:27.:22:31.

lessons of past failures and after extraction the land would be

:22:31.:22:36.

converted into a local environmental resource. Operations have ceased,

:22:36.:22:42.

leaving a huge hole and spoiled heaps, dwarfing the area. Families

:22:42.:22:49.

have been let down and thousands of families from Scotland are also

:22:49.:22:54.

suffering. Mining companies were supposed to buy insurance bonds to

:22:54.:23:00.

pay -- to pay for the land restoration, but there is a huge

:23:00.:23:05.

deficit and insufficient funds available. Due to the scale of the

:23:05.:23:08.

problem, will the First Minister order an independent enquiry into

:23:08.:23:15.

this failure? The first task is what Fergus Ewing

:23:15.:23:23.

is doing, everything he can to preserve employment in the opencast

:23:23.:23:29.

in -- opencast industry and also to work with local industries for the

:23:29.:23:33.

necessary environmental clean-up. Can I say to Willie Rennie, it is

:23:33.:23:36.

true and I agree with his description about the bonds that

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were meant to be provided for. I hope that we have legislative

:23:42.:23:46.

control over such matters in this Parliament and we meet -- and we

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will make sure these things are enforced because it is part and

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parcel of what we should do in this Parliament, to make sure not just

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jobs protect it, but also communities.

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Local authorities do have the powers just now to enforce appropriate

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restoration. It is not as if they are deprived of the powers that

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would resolve this problem. He resolves to the work of Fergus Ewing

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and I commend him for the task force, but that primarily looks at

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the needs of the business side. The restoration trust that is proposed

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has no real bite and is proposing more lenient restoration bonds for

:24:28.:24:31.

the industry, risking further environmental problems in the

:24:31.:24:37.

future. Some companies have made millions, but communities have been

:24:37.:24:42.

left environmentally bankrupt. The industry is now looking to dump

:24:42.:24:48.

opencast for other people to clean-up. Communities have enjoyed

:24:48.:24:52.

years of noise, dust and heavy transport and they now fear a legacy

:24:52.:24:58.

of derelict sites, polluted water and scarred landscapes. I would

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encourage him to set up that independent enquiry. As communities

:25:01.:25:06.

were promised, that the mistakes of the past would not be repeated, but

:25:06.:25:10.

we were. But the sake of these families and many others, will the

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First Minister act? I am extremely sympathetic on this

:25:15.:25:21.

issue. But let's consider his statement about local authorities.

:25:21.:25:24.

The environmental powers of local authorities mean little if the

:25:25.:25:28.

company concerned has gone out of this nurse, there are no assets to

:25:28.:25:35.

chase in that position. -- have gone out of this nurse. That is why the

:25:35.:25:39.

bonds and the funds are so significant. No reasonable person

:25:40.:25:45.

could blame a council for not being in a position to chase money that is

:25:45.:25:51.

no longer existent -- that is no longer present. In terms of the

:25:51.:25:56.

restoration fund, it is not true to say Fergus Ewing has only been

:25:56.:26:01.

concerned for the jobs and the industry, which is a very legitimate

:26:01.:26:04.

objective, but he has also been concerned to try and help the

:26:04.:26:10.

situation. Willie Rennie makes the case that I would make, that if you

:26:10.:26:15.

were going to pursue an industry which could potentially leave people

:26:15.:26:18.

with such environmental damage, you have to have the legislative track

:26:18.:26:25.

-- legislative framework to make sure the funds that provide to --

:26:25.:26:29.

the body that provides the funds is independent. And I look forward to

:26:29.:26:35.

doing that. What discussions have the Scottish

:26:35.:26:38.

government have with the security services regarding the emergency

:26:38.:26:44.

landing at Prestwick airport on June 15th 2013?

:26:44.:26:47.

Police Scotland kept the Scottish government fully informed of the

:26:47.:26:55.

developments, forming a diversion to the fight. Police Scotland met the

:26:55.:26:58.

plane on arrival, 100 officers from the specialist crime division

:26:58.:27:01.

undertook a controlled disembarkation of the plane,

:27:01.:27:06.

searched it, interviewed everybody, before the flight continued to New

:27:06.:27:11.

York. This incident highlights the strategic portent of Prestwick as an

:27:11.:27:16.

airport and facility necessary to receive high risk fights involving

:27:16.:27:23.

the potential for hijacking or terrorism. So we have written to the

:27:23.:27:27.

UK Secretary of State this week highlighting that big role that

:27:27.:27:30.

Prestwick played in this latest Indu stashed latest incident and

:27:30.:27:34.

commending the multi-agency response led by the police.

:27:34.:27:40.

I thank the First Minister for his comprehensive answer. This incident

:27:40.:27:44.

highlights the importance of Prestwick not only to Scotland but

:27:44.:27:49.

also the aerospace industry for travel and for maintenance and

:27:49.:27:56.

repair and for resilience. But it, and other Scottish airports, have

:27:56.:28:02.

been -- would be neglected by the London coalition's new airport for

:28:02.:28:07.

the South East of England. Does he agree we should have an independent

:28:07.:28:10.

and comprehensive airport strategy for Scotland to include more direct

:28:10.:28:17.

flights for Scotland that would take effect in 2016?

:28:17.:28:24.

The Westminster government's obsession is costing other airports

:28:24.:28:26.

also and the discrimination that places against the airports of

:28:26.:28:32.

Scotland and also the Northern regions of England, and the

:28:32.:28:35.

devolution to this Parliament to take effective action would increase

:28:35.:28:41.

activity in Scotland. I think that was supported by the majority and I

:28:41.:28:45.

think a large majority in this Parliament, and I hope the labour

:28:45.:28:55.
:28:55.:28:58.

Lions have not lost parents using as for this -- Labour party.

:28:58.:29:02.

What impact has the recent decision by three senior executives to leave

:29:03.:29:09.

the Scottish police authority have on the new strategy?

:29:09.:29:19.
:29:19.:29:20.

Think no impact. The IT strategy... It continues to be led by an able

:29:20.:29:25.

and skilled body. The First Minister taught previously

:29:25.:29:28.

of tensions across Scottish policing. Ash talked. With the loss

:29:28.:29:33.

of the head of finance, good -- governance and strategy, and the

:29:33.:29:39.

Chief Executive officer, so it is clear that the factors behind the

:29:39.:29:43.

crisis on more than creative tensions. All this week's meetings

:29:43.:29:50.

of senior officials to reorganise governance across the police

:29:50.:29:52.

authorities finally indicate the government is coming to grips with

:29:52.:29:56.

this tax payer button -- this tax payer funded billion pound

:29:56.:30:01.

organisation, and deliver a single efficient police force?

:30:01.:30:08.

We should not question the system save the police service of Scotland,

:30:08.:30:18.
:30:18.:30:18.

given that crime in this country is now at 839 year low? Commitment of

:30:18.:30:22.

officers has gone up since this Government took over and thank

:30:22.:30:25.

goodness these people policing our communities safely. In terms of the

:30:25.:30:32.

IT, it is important for him to know this, because he has expressed

:30:32.:30:39.

concern, not just that the accountable officer is one of those

:30:39.:30:45.

leaving, but also that we are up to the challenges of dealing with the

:30:45.:30:50.

legacy. Graham Pearson has pointed out the lunacy of not having IT

:30:50.:30:54.

systems across Scotland that could not communicate with each other, so

:30:54.:31:00.

the proposal for the acquisition of a single police IT service to record

:31:01.:31:07.

data is a major advance and I am pleased to say that discussions with

:31:07.:31:13.

the Scottish police indicate it is affordable within the existing

:31:13.:31:20.

budget. And I know that the Scottish police board will be discussing this

:31:20.:31:29.

proposal next week, on June 26th. What plans does the Scottish

:31:29.:31:37.

government have to commemorate the 25th anniversary of Piper Alpha?

:31:37.:31:43.

It was the world's worst offshore oil platform disaster and it remains

:31:43.:31:47.

etched in the memories of those of us old enough to remember. The

:31:47.:31:53.

government is setting out a range of ministerial involvement in very

:31:53.:31:57.

important activities taking place over the next two weeks, including

:31:57.:32:02.

an offshore safety conference, a screening of a film, which I think

:32:02.:32:07.

is a hugely effective film, and hugely important in bringing to a

:32:07.:32:12.

new generation of horror of Piper Alpha and the absolute importance of

:32:12.:32:17.

seeing it does not happening again. The Memorial trust appeal is raising

:32:17.:32:21.

funds to ensure that the families of those affected by the disaster have

:32:21.:32:26.

that peaceful place to remember their loved ones for years to come.

:32:26.:32:31.

We were able to contribute to that appeal, but I commend the efforts of

:32:31.:32:37.

the campaign in giving bereaved families and appropriate place to

:32:37.:32:44.

remember their loved ones. Thank you for that and so, I would

:32:44.:32:49.

like to take this opportunity to highlight the screening of the film

:32:49.:32:53.

this Friday in Aberdeen and its wider distribution in the weeks

:32:53.:33:03.

ahead. But the First Minister join me in welcoming this feature length

:33:03.:33:06.

documentary for future generations to learn from?

:33:06.:33:12.

I would, it has great importance for a new generation, and I hope it will

:33:13.:33:16.

-- I hope every school child in Scotland will have access to the

:33:16.:33:20.

information, it is important people remember Piper Alpha in terms of the

:33:20.:33:27.

critical nature of what happened. But we also have to think that many

:33:27.:33:32.

offshore workers were not alive when this happens and so the initiative

:33:32.:33:39.

to have a special safety screen films to remind people why they have

:33:39.:33:47.

got the safety case system that was recommended, to remind them why

:33:47.:33:56.

these systems are in place. Also in terms of public obligation is the

:33:56.:34:06.
:34:06.:34:18.

necessity to make sure the Coast Guard is properly manned.

:34:18.:34:27.

We close on a sombre note of recollection about Piper Alpha but

:34:27.:34:33.

there were personal recollections for the First Minister. About the

:34:33.:34:43.

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