21/09/2016 Politics Scotland


21/09/2016

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Hello, and welcome to Politics Scotland.

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Coming up on the programme this afternoon:

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The Scottish Labour Party get more powers to run their own affairs.

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And the Conservative lead a debate on NHS Scotlands staffing crisis.

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The ballot has now closed in the UK Labour leadership contest. We will

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be assessing what lies ahead. The Scottish Labour Party is to have

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more decision-making power. under plans agreed by the UK party's

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ruling National Executive Committee. The NEC has approved devolving

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control over policy, constituency parties and Westminster

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candidate selection. Our Political Editor Brian Taylor

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has been following the story. Why are these changes important

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for Labour supporters? They have been moving steadily,

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inching towards autonomy for some time. This goes back four or five

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years in terms of the particular story, October 2015, Kezia Dugdale

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and Jeremy Corbyn agreed autonomy for the party. And autonomy over

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Westminster selection policy. The detail for that has been consulted

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on. It it has been put forward. It goes to the Liverpool conference,

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and I suspect this will go through there. Kazuo Dugdale says this is

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the lighting. One of her many as Joanne Lamb said it was treated like

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a branch office. Labour needs to dispel that. They say that is done

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here. It gives them a degree of autonomy and Kezia Dugdale as

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autonomy. They have party autonomy. They have a Scottish Labour Party

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focus on everything. I asked her what happened with Trident. What if

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he's got his Labour Party want to do is grab party, and the English

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Labour Party doesn't? What happens? She said it would go to a

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consolidation free process. There is only one -- consolidation process.

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There would be agreement after that. The Scottish Labour Party is in the

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room arguing the case. I fitted to her that perhaps is not necessarily

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enough. The difference here is that we will have very different policy

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decisions. We will see that when under my leadership we had debates

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and votes in devolved areas. In order to stand up in Scotland, we

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need to have those conversations. If a Scottish party says no to Trident,

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they might not get their way when it comes to the UK manifesto. If it is

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the case that we're talking about a UK wide manifesto. All corners of

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our Labour Party family will argue it all out and got all the eyes and

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cross all the Tees. For the first time, we will be able to put forward

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all our own policies in Scotland. Best of luck with that one will be a

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lot of people's feeling. Though be a lot of cynics including double

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inside the Labour Party in Scotland. They try to become more like the

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SNP. They've been trying for years and have got no where. There is

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intrinsic cause with the Labour Party about going too much down the

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Caledonian route cause they fear they lose the UK connections. In

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longer term perspective, perhaps the international perspective that was

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the underpinning of so much of the socialist approach in it's earlier

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lit years. Facts are facts. The SNP are doing awfully well in opinion

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polls. One of the reasons for that is that they stand up for Scotland.

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What has happened is that when people are focusing on Scottish

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issues, they see the party that stands up without Challenger without

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looking over their shoulder for Scotland. The other party is the

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same. The Conservatives have gone for autonomy. The Liberal Democrats

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have always been autonomy. The Labour Party are playing catch up.

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They've always been behind. They are stressing autonomy. As is only

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policy question, it can only go so far. They are remaining part of what

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Kezia Dugdale trying the Lee Mack charmingly called the Labour Party

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family. They are remaining part of that. She wakes up in the morning

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wanting to work for a UK Labour Government. Not purely on a Scottish

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context. Health is the theme of the debate

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in parliament today which is rather fitting

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as the Scottish Health Survey was published yesterday with rather

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glum news about our waistlines. But before we discuss

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that, A Health boards across Scotland will get an extra

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?9 million for their People hurt themelves on ice,

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fall victim to flu, respiratory disease flares up, and they end up

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in hospital A departments. It's a dangerous time

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for politicians too. And we saw the criticism

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the Scottish Government came in for last winter when the NHS

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failed to meet the commitment that transferred or discharged

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from A within four hours. Today, ministers have

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announced an additional ?9 million to, as their

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Press release puts it, boost A resilience

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ahead of winter. The answer's very complex,

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and must be seen in the context of the overall NHS budget

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in Scotland of around The figure announced last March

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was specifically for A care. The new cash is aimed at helping A

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departments certainly, but also the wider NHS and social

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care sectors which are affected For instance if you look

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at the condition Chronic Obstructive Pulmonary

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Disorder, COPD, which is serious breathing difficulty,

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and which is worsened in the winter, many patients could be

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treated in their own home. This new cash could be used

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by health boards to improve support for patients at GP surgeries

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and with home visits NHS Lothian, which has been running

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a programme to do just this, could be treated in this way,

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reducing the need for A visits So this cash is aimed

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at prevention, preventing people from needing A treatment,

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rather than curing the problem This might be helping

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the pressure on hospital emergency departments,

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but the primary care sector Well, the Royal College of General

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Practitioners has been looking at an NHS workforce survey carried out

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in June. It revealed a loss of 90 GPs

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in Scotland over the past two years. That's almost one a week

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leaving the service, which the college reckons means a

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further 12 have gone since June. Well, Holyrood's Health and Sport

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committee will be looking at this next week in some depth,

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having already discussed it The GP College has begun a fightback

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though, with a new YouTube campaign aimed at persuading medical

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students, and even schoolchildren sitting Highers that general

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practice is the profession Even if it means dealing with more

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people over the winter months. Joining me now is The Courier's

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political editor, Kieran Andrews. First Labour, are they going to get

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anything here? They are forever going to say they are going to be

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more Scottish. I don't think it is going to be voter's number one

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priority on the doorstep. They will ask what about my school and local

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hospital? Not how autonomous are your party. It is a funny thing to

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focus on to some degree. On the other hand, the Brian Travers

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interview was extremely damaging for Labour's perception. Now with big

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things between Kezia Dugdale and Jeremy Corbyn, it is Kezia Dugdale

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trying to establish distance. Put some clear blue water between her

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and Jeremy Corbyn. That is fine. But when trying to explain the process

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on, let's say Trident, if Labour work pro-Trident and Kezia Dugdale's

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party were not. If there is one manifesto, that is what they are

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going to be saying. Everyone will know the Scottish Labour Party

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doesn't agree with the UK Labour Party. The UK Labour Party has the

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power to completely undermine the Scottish Labour Party. Not only in

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policy, but it also holds the purse. It cannot completely break is

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because the Scottish Labour Party needs money. As far as I control, UK

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Labour controls the staffing. It feeds into the clash between Kezia

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Dugdale's narrative and how she that how it feeds into policy.

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Conservatives... Now, the Conservatives

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are leading the debate today They say they have no confidence

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in the Scottish Government's workforce planning for the NHS

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despite warnings from patient The Conservative Health spokesperson

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Donald Cameron is on his feet now. I'm delighted to open the debate on

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health. I would like to begin with a tribute to the incredible work that

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dedicated staff within our NHS and social care sector carry out on a

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daily basis. It can be difficult work with long hours, often in

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challenging circumstances. The efforts of staff frequently go

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unnoticed and yet professionals in the NHS and care sectors are still

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among one of the most dedicated public care servants at of all. They

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need our help to make and do what they do best. Caring for patients,

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treating illness and saving lives. That work is under threat. It has

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become clear that the NHS workforce is overstretched and struggling to

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meet ever increasing demands on front line services. In the last few

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months, I have worked with patients, professional associations, medical

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staff and individuals. They message is clear. Staffing levels across the

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NHS are in crisis. It is a deep, systemic issue that cuts across the

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whole workforce. It is not just happening in one branch of the

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medical profession, it is in many. It is not just in the NHS, but in

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the social care workforce, too. It is not just integral Scotland, it is

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happening right here in Edinburgh and in other oral sectors. And we

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know that this problem will get much worse. We have an ageing workforce.

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Many of whom will soon retire. We will see that midwives are saying

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there is a retiring time bomb with one in five due to retire over the

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next decade. The Scottish Government's and figures say that

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one in three GP's will retire in the next ten years. That brings further

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pressure to battle the increasing demand. It is an increasing circle.

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It listen to the professionals. Since they can post is say... Other

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doctors with the team have to cover the workload or the service may be

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reduced. Staff are asked to work increasingly long hours and more

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intensely to fill the gaps. In the last session, I am aware that

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efforts were made in this Parliament on a cross party basis to try and

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avert this rises on a manner. But the SNP Government sat on it's

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hands. So, in many ways this debate is a lament for this lost

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opportunity. We are now reaping the whirlwind because the crisis is upon

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us. I have no hesitation in condemning the sheer lethargy of the

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Scottish Government which has brought us to this point. Often in

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politics, some of the most robust arguments we have are about start,

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vigorous policy choices taken by a Government for better or worse. Not

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here. Despite the repeated warnings, there is no sign of vigour. Instead,

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we have in Nash and listlessness. We have a Government sleepwalking

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through this rises. What answers do this bring? To standard responses.

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Patient satisfaction is at an all-time high and that NHS staffing

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is at record levels. We are presented with a wall of numbers and

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a barrage of statistics as if that provides all the answers. Let me

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save them sometime this afternoon. Patient satisfaction, patients are

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of course the most important people in our health service. Their care is

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paramount and it is our job to ensure they have access to

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world-class health care, based on need. One benchmark we can measure

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the NHS on is patient satisfaction. However, what is very important is

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that we have numbers of highly trained staff to surround that

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patient and provide the care. Patient well-being is intrinsically

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linked with that. Patient satisfaction today, the NHS is

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chronically understaffed and morale levels plummet. That will disappear

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overnight. The Scottish Government and the First Minister like to

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tellers that it sits at record levels and the NHS has never

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employed as many people. But record numbers of staff does not mean that

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there are enough staff. Again, listen to the professionals. Listen

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to the Royal College of nurses who say as follows. The increase of

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staff is not keeping pace with demand. Even more worrying, almost

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600 posts have been vacant for three months or more. Listen to the Royal

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College of radiologists, they say this. The mismatch between growth

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and workforce between growth and demand. It grew 3% between 2010 and

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2015. An MRI scans increased by 15%. That is not forget the key role that

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radiologists play in health care. It is very simple clear picture. Demand

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is outstripping staff numbers. So, merely parroting the number that

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there are record numbers of NHS staff. It does not help. There are

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record numbers of people getting old and Scotland. There are record

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numbers of demands being placed on the NHS. It is quite simply selling

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a fantasy that the NHS is coping under SNP leadership. Like the band

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on the Titanic, they are trying to tell all well when it is not.

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MSPs have been hearing from GPs and other health professionals

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about how Scotland's primary care services could be improved,

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against a backdrop of staff shortages and recruitment problems

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One of the key themes that dominated, was how

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a multi-disciplinary team approach to replacing doctors

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as the first point of contact for patients, would work.

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It has been mentioned a couple of times that the driver for the

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current emphasis for the current model of the GP crisis. I figure was

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actually to reason that made the point that there are other workforce

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difficulties. What extent do you think the other primary care

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professionals are repaired for the proposed changes that are likely to

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come forward? And from a capacity point of view, how readily can the

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other health professionals pick up the work from GPs? I'm thinking that

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one example is the proposal to recruit 140 pharmacists for example.

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Where are these pharmacists going to come from? I think workforce

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planning across the teams is not good enough at the moment. We

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wouldn't have a clue about the projected number of pharmacists or

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physios or OT's or nurses within the primary care team. We tend to still

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focus on the real data that they have got. It is likely how many GP's

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they have got. That is what we talk about when we talk about primary

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care. We have got to get a better base level. We've got to understand

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how workforce planning has to look at those disciplines. Several times,

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people have mentioned that there is a shortage of the professions.

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Various professions. We have 1000 approximate GP practices and funding

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for additional 140 pharmacists. And we are supposed to be rolling out

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this model potentially. How on earth, if we can't staff what we

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have now, only going to roll this out? Or is this going to develop?

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Can you see this realistically happening without a huge injection

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of cash from somewhere? The direction of travel is the wrong

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direction. The number of GPs are reducing. Effectively, we are facing

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a huge retirement bulge which we have been highlighting now for as

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long as ten years. But that was coming. There are a number of

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challenges of recruiting into general practices for GPs. As Sian

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alluded to earlier, we just tried to encourage and promote what an

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attractive career option it is for doctors to come into general

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practice. But there are some fundamental challenges with

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recruiting through the system. We recognise that there are only

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approximately half of our medical students are Scotland's domicile.

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And therefore we have a big challenge with retaining the number

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of medical students that are being trained in Scotland. And it is

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really going to be important to increase the general practice and

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exposure within the undergraduate training to encourage direction into

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our specialty. We have had 100 new places for training places. That

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have been created and have now been advertised and are in the process of

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appointment. But unfortunately, we are not going to be able to fill

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these places or anything like it. In fact, we have still got a number of

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unfilled places for GP training from the previous recruitment round. So,

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we are not attracting potential GPs at this point in time. It is our

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role as a college to remark that at every stage in our career low

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process. It is at the real challenge and concern. To see how we can

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sustain models with in and out, without a shift of resources into

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primary care. -- career low process. Now let's speak to some

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MSPs at Holyrood. For the SNP we have Clare Haughey,

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for the Conservatives From Labour, Jackie Baillie joins

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us, and Alex Cole-Hamilton joins us We just heard Donald Cameron from

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the Conservatives saying that every time they ask about starving in the

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NHS, the SNP Government tells us that it is at record levels. He said

:21:57.:22:02.

that when demand is going up so quickly, it is not enough. It is not

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an explanation. More is needed. Well, we do have record levels of

:22:08.:22:11.

staff in the NHS and we have record levels of investment. The SNP

:22:12.:22:16.

Government continues to invest in the NHS. We continue to invest in

:22:17.:22:22.

GPs. We have created more GP training places. We have created

:22:23.:22:26.

more places at University and we have created a graduate school for

:22:27.:22:32.

attracting people to... You say you have created more GP training

:22:33.:22:35.

places. We have just heard someone from the general practitioners

:22:36.:22:40.

Council saying that the extra places are not being taken up. They are not

:22:41.:22:44.

being filled. We continue to work with the Royal College of GPs to

:22:45.:22:51.

make GPs and to make a career as a GP more attractive. Why aren't

:22:52.:22:54.

people taking up the traineeship? We will continue to work with them to

:22:55.:23:00.

make it more attractive to medical graduates. As I say, we are also

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looking at widening the net, making more medical places available and

:23:09.:23:12.

also setting up graduate training to attract people into primary care and

:23:13.:23:16.

role health services. Miles breaks. A bit of a difference in height

:23:17.:23:21.

there! If the camera can get up to you! They go, everything is fine.

:23:22.:23:27.

This is the issue. We have decided to bring the issue to Parliament

:23:28.:23:31.

today because it is quite clear that we have decided to preside over a

:23:32.:23:36.

crisis over the health service. GPs, everyone is telling us that day in

:23:37.:23:43.

and day out as you have seen from that clip. We have decided we need

:23:44.:23:49.

to meet the crisis. It there will be 830 GPs short soon. We need to see

:23:50.:23:56.

real action taken by the Government to safeguard the future of family

:23:57.:24:02.

GPs. Surely as Tories, you are not arguing fraught unlimited spending.

:24:03.:24:05.

As your colleague Mr Cameron pointed out, the reason that record levels

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of staff asked enough to cope is because there is such a huge

:24:13.:24:16.

increase of demand key says. Presumably the Conservatives are not

:24:17.:24:19.

saying that we should indefinitely continue to pour money and as long

:24:20.:24:22.

as demand continues to increase because it will continue to increase

:24:23.:24:28.

indefinitely. Yes. That is why we focus resources. We have made a

:24:29.:24:31.

commitment that 10% of all health board funding would go directly to

:24:32.:24:35.

front line GP services. That is what our people are telling is needs to

:24:36.:24:41.

be done. It is worth remembering that the UK Conservative Government

:24:42.:24:47.

has provided 1.46 billion in funding to the NHS. How that money is spent

:24:48.:24:53.

is what we need to focus on. -- funding to the Scottish Government.

:24:54.:25:00.

The GP about committee said that there are about 100 new trainee GP

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places that have not been taken up. Why do think that is? GPs are pretty

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well played, -- paid. Why are people not going into it? The role is

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changing. We should be investing in primary care. I can't help but

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remember that it was Nicola Sturgeon when she was the health minister

:25:23.:25:27.

that actually cut the number of GP training places, cut the number of

:25:28.:25:34.

wife and nursing places. We reaping the reward of that now. When not. If

:25:35.:25:42.

people are coming into the matter of you increase or cut the numbers. The

:25:43.:25:47.

reality is according to the GPs themselves that people are not

:25:48.:25:50.

coming forward. What you find is that the overall number does matter.

:25:51.:25:56.

The number of GPs and number of medical staff trained matters in

:25:57.:25:58.

terms of the specialisation of medical staff. I'm not questioning

:25:59.:26:03.

that. The point the GPs are making is that it's not the number of GPs

:26:04.:26:08.

don't matter, of course it does. They are saying that these training

:26:09.:26:11.

places that are there and available to people, people are not coming

:26:12.:26:15.

forward to take up the traineeships. There is a stage before that which

:26:16.:26:19.

is actively training at university and university places that they have

:26:20.:26:23.

before they enter a traineeship. If you cut the number of places at

:26:24.:26:28.

university, then you cut the number of... We have not cut the number of

:26:29.:26:34.

university places... It comes back to whether we want to prioritise the

:26:35.:26:41.

NHS. If the NHS digital that we have the adequate number of GPs. The

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professionals are saying there is a GP writers. Unless the Scottish

:26:48.:26:54.

Government fund those, the Scottish Government... It will just come to

:26:55.:27:00.

any. We should be dealing with people much closer to home. Alex, do

:27:01.:27:06.

the Liberal Democrats think there is a crisis here? After all, the SNP

:27:07.:27:14.

have increased, or at least they have not allowed spending on health

:27:15.:27:20.

to decrease in real terms. I know we have heard from the professional

:27:21.:27:22.

saying there is a crisis, but cynics would say professionals in any

:27:23.:27:27.

profession always say there is a crisis because it is in their

:27:28.:27:30.

interest to hold out for more money and more resources. I think the only

:27:31.:27:34.

people who don't know that there is a crisis in this sector are the SNP.

:27:35.:27:47.

That is why we -- they have tabled a idea to remove the word serious from

:27:48.:27:52.

this. What is release Kerry is not just the number of places that

:27:53.:27:55.

aren't taken up, it is that those trainee GPs who are in place months

:27:56.:27:59.

right now, 50% of them are not domiciled in Scotland. --

:28:00.:28:06.

placements. We will even practice in Scotland. Even though we are

:28:07.:28:09.

training them, they may not even end up here. We need to recognise that

:28:10.:28:15.

even in our nation's capital, in Edinburgh Western, might

:28:16.:28:22.

constituency, we have needs that a vast inflated. Part of that is that

:28:23.:28:25.

it does not work hand-in-hand with planning. We are throwing up

:28:26.:28:29.

communities left right and centre. Particularly in urban areas without

:28:30.:28:36.

any thought to health services or. They are putting more drain. That is

:28:37.:28:43.

putting a massive strain on exhaustion and morale. Cleverly if

:28:44.:28:49.

we can swing right background you, if you are right, and it Jackie

:28:50.:28:55.

Baillie is wrong that there is a problem at university. If there is

:28:56.:29:00.

no trouble at universities training, what is Europe's place and for why

:29:01.:29:03.

the places that are being made available by the Government are not

:29:04.:29:08.

in taken up? I refuse to take lessons from Tories who cannot run

:29:09.:29:20.

the NHS... This is extraordinary. The levels of funding as a record

:29:21.:29:29.

levels. This is embarrassing. The funding is at record levels. I asked

:29:30.:29:34.

you a very straight question which you spent about half a minute

:29:35.:29:38.

avoiding. The question is this is that if you are right that the

:29:39.:29:43.

number of places at universities is fine... I can't hear you. If you are

:29:44.:29:50.

right that the number of places at university are not falling, had you

:29:51.:29:53.

explain the fact that the traineeships are the Scottish

:29:54.:29:57.

Government that are being made available are not being taken up? We

:29:58.:30:00.

need to tackle this from both ends. We need to take more people into

:30:01.:30:05.

university to train. We need to attract more people into GP training

:30:06.:30:10.

and we also need to look at getting GPs who have retired and perhaps

:30:11.:30:11.

left practice to come back into Miles, if we can climb back up to

:30:12.:30:23.

you again, what is your reply? If it is the case that traineeships are

:30:24.:30:26.

being made available by the Scottish Government and people are not coming

:30:27.:30:30.

forward to take them up, that is hardly the Scottish Government's

:30:31.:30:39.

fault, is it? I think what is key is our people do not depend on the SNP,

:30:40.:30:43.

they depend on the health service workers. After 9.5 years of being in

:30:44.:30:49.

power, it is time the SNP took responsibility for this crisis. How

:30:50.:30:57.

would you explain the fact that the places are there and people are not

:30:58.:31:03.

coming forward? As Alex mentioned, over half our GPs being in training,

:31:04.:31:13.

how we can fund that and keep people working, the SNP have not addressed

:31:14.:31:21.

that. It was Nicola Sturgeon who released the number of training

:31:22.:31:25.

places -- reduced the number of training places. I say to you that

:31:26.:31:30.

the SNP cut training places and it is now that we are reaping the

:31:31.:31:36.

reward. One sentence, Alex Cole-Hamilton? I think we need to

:31:37.:31:40.

invest in our GP surgery and practice managers because if you

:31:41.:31:43.

look at it, the funding for GPs has gone down from about 9% five years

:31:44.:31:49.

ago to 7% now. The Royal College of GPs are asking... We are facing a

:31:50.:31:56.

perfect storm of an ageing population and a rising population.

:31:57.:31:59.

You cannot keep sticking your fingers in your ears and pretending

:32:00.:32:04.

it is not happening. An entire profession is looking for your party

:32:05.:32:09.

and leadership. That was at least five sentences. And about 25

:32:10.:32:15.

subordinate clauses! We will have to leave it there. Thank you.

:32:16.:32:18.

Now, let's cross back to the chamber where the Scottish Government

:32:19.:32:21.

are responding to a Conservative motion criticising

:32:22.:32:23.

the government's record workforce planning for the NHS.

:32:24.:32:25.

Shona Robinson the Health Secretary is speaking now.

:32:26.:32:37.

We are looking at always of making those posts more attractive, and we

:32:38.:32:46.

have had some success with that. I recognise also the particular

:32:47.:32:49.

challenges we have within general practice which is why there has been

:32:50.:32:53.

such a key focus for me personally and this government on that, and

:32:54.:32:59.

extensive efforts made through the primary care transformation fund,

:33:00.:33:04.

the ?85 million investment in the next three years, the fact we are

:33:05.:33:09.

working with the BME on a new GP contract from 2017 onwards, the fact

:33:10.:33:13.

that we have got rid of all the bureaucracy that goes with it, so it

:33:14.:33:17.

is absolutely unfair for Donald Cameron to claim we have not been

:33:18.:33:21.

giving primary-care and general practice the priority it needs. Of

:33:22.:33:26.

course we have. While we have the highest number of GPs per head of

:33:27.:33:29.

population in the UK and that number has risen to an all-time high, we

:33:30.:33:34.

recognise we need to do more. And we need more GPs, we accept that. But

:33:35.:33:40.

it is not all about securing numbers. We have increased the

:33:41.:33:48.

training places for GPs to grow our GP workforce, encouraging trainee

:33:49.:33:51.

doctors into general practice, helping to make general practice

:33:52.:33:56.

more attractive option and encouraging established GPs to

:33:57.:33:59.

return to practice, but we need to do more, we accept that we need to

:34:00.:34:04.

have the multidisciplinary team around GPs and that is what we are

:34:05.:34:08.

working to do. But it is not simply a numbers game and I will give way

:34:09.:34:14.

on that point. Thank you. The multidisciplinary team will consist

:34:15.:34:21.

of midwives and health visitors. In Glasgow, the healthier wealthier

:34:22.:34:23.

children initiative has had a significant impact on those at risk

:34:24.:34:29.

of poverty. They have received ?11 million in benefits they might not

:34:30.:34:33.

have known about if it had not been for the well-informed midwives and

:34:34.:34:37.

health visitors. Will the government commit to Green manifesto calls that

:34:38.:34:42.

that scheme be rolled out across Scotland? I can say to Alison

:34:43.:34:46.

Johnston that I welcome the contribution made by health visitors

:34:47.:34:51.

and midwives through that project which we funded, and I think the

:34:52.:34:58.

role of the NHS staff and their partners in income maximisation is

:34:59.:35:09.

something that we need to make sure and tackling health inequalities,

:35:10.:35:11.

that everyone sees it as part of their role to do so. So, yes, I can

:35:12.:35:14.

commit to supporting the roll-out of that, and we can build that in

:35:15.:35:17.

through the workforce plans as we take that forward. I think the

:35:18.:35:21.

multidisciplinary model we have with link workers and others really lends

:35:22.:35:26.

itself well to seeing part of that as tackling inequalities and income

:35:27.:35:34.

maximisation also. NHS boards are required to have the correct staff

:35:35.:35:38.

to meet the needs of the service and ensure high-quality patient care. We

:35:39.:35:42.

are working very closely with boards and through the new world of

:35:43.:35:47.

integration to support their efforts on workforce planning and

:35:48.:35:50.

recruitment, and of course, we will work with the RCGP, BME and others,

:35:51.:35:57.

the RCN and others, to take that forward. We have a vision through

:35:58.:36:04.

the National clinical strategy and I intend to introduce proposals for a

:36:05.:36:09.

regional and national planning system in a draft national health

:36:10.:36:15.

care workforce plan by the end of the year, with the plan published in

:36:16.:36:18.

the spring of next year. I can assure... Mr Crowley was looking to

:36:19.:36:28.

intervene and I have told him it is too late...

:36:29.:36:32.

Now, major changes are being made to the new school qualifications.

:36:33.:36:35.

Assessments marked by teachers which make up part of a student's

:36:36.:36:38.

The government says it's been listening to teachers' worries

:36:39.:36:41.

The biggest teachers union says the change is very welcome,

:36:42.:36:45.

but says other concerns still need to be addressed.

:36:46.:36:47.

Here's our education correspondent Jamie McIvor.

:36:48.:36:54.

These are big changes which will affect both students and teachers.

:36:55.:36:59.

Assessments marked by teachers are an important part of National five

:37:00.:37:06.

and higher courses. Teachers say they have added to workload

:37:07.:37:10.

bureaucracy and stress. Now these assessments are to be scrapped. And

:37:11.:37:13.

greater significance is one earner is where young people will not be

:37:14.:37:17.

carrying as much pressure as they did in the past. But will assist

:37:18.:37:21.

young people concentrating on the achievement of their learning rather

:37:22.:37:25.

than purely and simply the assessment of their progress. Final

:37:26.:37:29.

exams will now be strengthened. Coursework will make up part of the

:37:30.:37:35.

final mark but this will be externally marked, reducing the

:37:36.:37:44.

workload of teachers. Some teachers have been on a work-to-rule as a

:37:45.:37:53.

result of this. More time and space for depth of learning, it is

:37:54.:37:56.

supposed our creativity at the heart of it, and for teachers, a

:37:57.:38:01.

significant reduction in the workload associated with

:38:02.:38:05.

bureaucracy. Changes will be made next year and changes to higher

:38:06.:38:09.

courses in 2018. The details of what this will mean for individual

:38:10.:38:11.

subjects will be decided later. Kieran Andrews is still with me.

:38:12.:38:21.

Let's talk about the NHS. Let's talk about language first. Watching that

:38:22.:38:26.

debate in Parliament, why do politicians speak like that? I have

:38:27.:38:29.

no idea what shown Robinson was trying to say. Did you understand

:38:30.:38:36.

it? No, I don't think anyone watching it unless you are familiar

:38:37.:38:40.

with the jargon of the NHS would understand it. I saw your interview

:38:41.:38:45.

with each of the politicians at Holyrood. When the questions are

:38:46.:38:50.

difficult, politicians like to speak and not say anything unless it

:38:51.:38:53.

scores a point against their opponents. At least they were

:38:54.:38:57.

speaking of something approximating the lush language. There is that!

:38:58.:39:03.

What you have here in terms of the GP crisis, the problem with

:39:04.:39:08.

recruiting GPs are straightforward to diagnose. It is a very stressful

:39:09.:39:13.

job. It might pay well, it might have good standing but it is very

:39:14.:39:19.

stressful. Increasingly long hours, especially for GPs who own their own

:39:20.:39:23.

practice. And if you're trying to recruit people to rural areas, it is

:39:24.:39:27.

difficult to attract people may be up to the islands or harder to reach

:39:28.:39:32.

areas. Do you think that explains why they have got places open and

:39:33.:39:37.

people not coming forward? Absolutely. A combination of those

:39:38.:39:42.

factors plus the Conservatives want to look at their immigration policy

:39:43.:39:49.

and post study work visas touched on by the GPs in the health committee

:39:50.:39:55.

about people not staying once they have finished university. It is a

:39:56.:39:59.

multifaceted problem. It is much more difficult to find a solution

:40:00.:40:03.

which is why politicians don't want to talk about the problem. You would

:40:04.:40:08.

think Scotland with its medical traditions could produce enough

:40:09.:40:11.

doctors, of all things, for heaven 's sake, you think we could do that?

:40:12.:40:17.

Indeed, but no one is talking about the problem of producing enough

:40:18.:40:23.

doctors, it is producing enough GPs. So a lot of them are going to become

:40:24.:40:29.

hospital consultants or researchers, it is this idea of saying go to

:40:30.:40:34.

somewhere in the north-west of Scotland and run a GP surgery?

:40:35.:40:39.

Absolutely. There are plenty of issues across the rest of the NHS

:40:40.:40:43.

with it creaking and possibly not enough resources. There are higher

:40:44.:40:48.

and higher demands, but the most obvious problem is within the GP

:40:49.:40:53.

sector and it is attracting people who go in and become medical

:40:54.:40:59.

students to go into that area. Isn't the obvious answer, you put their

:41:00.:41:04.

pay up? That is what the bankers always say! It you want to recruit

:41:05.:41:11.

them you have to pay them. We are clearly not paying enough especially

:41:12.:41:15.

for doctors in rural communities? Possibly. It has been trialled with

:41:16.:41:21.

rural areas with teachers. But these have been taken away as public

:41:22.:41:27.

services are cut. It is very difficult to justify cutting a

:41:28.:41:31.

social worker's salary in an unattractive area and a teacher's

:41:32.:41:34.

salary but saying GPs to get three times more you, you should get a wee

:41:35.:41:39.

bit extra on top of that. It might help the problem but it creates

:41:40.:41:44.

problems. Thank you. A majority of MSPs have voted

:41:45.:41:47.

in favour of a Scottish Government motion, amended by Labour,

:41:48.:41:50.

noting the "negative impact" that leaving the EU will have

:41:51.:41:52.

on the Scottish economy. Labour's amendment also called

:41:53.:41:54.

on Scottish ministers to do more A Conservative amendment calling

:41:55.:41:59.

for the Scottish Government to reduce business rates,

:42:00.:42:01.

and rule out a second independence referendum was

:42:02.:42:03.

defeated. The Scottish Government debate,

:42:04.:42:04.

looking at how Scotland's economy should respond to Brexit,

:42:05.:42:06.

began with the Economy Secretary, Scottish GDP is projected to be

:42:07.:42:20.

between 1.2 billion to 11 billion lower if Brexit does not occur. Now,

:42:21.:42:29.

we know that these forecasts are contingent on political and other

:42:30.:42:32.

events and reaction to those political events in the economy. The

:42:33.:42:40.

uncertainty immediately following the vote is impacting on economic

:42:41.:42:49.

issues. Our workers' rights going to be protected? Is a new holiday these

:42:50.:42:54.

attacks going to be introduced for people travelling to the EU? And

:42:55.:42:59.

there have been no answers on the most important question of all, will

:43:00.:43:03.

the UK remain inside the single market or do you believe, whoever

:43:04.:43:08.

speaks for the Conservative Party, do you believe that the UK should

:43:09.:43:15.

remain inside the single market? I would welcome, in addition to that

:43:16.:43:21.

answer, constructive ideas about how we can further support economic

:43:22.:43:25.

growth and from MEPs across the chamber. In that spirit, I would

:43:26.:43:30.

urge the Chancellor to exploit two key measures which could be taken to

:43:31.:43:36.

protect jobs. First of all, increased capital spending. An

:43:37.:43:39.

increase in 5 billion could produce an additional ?4 million spend in

:43:40.:43:46.

Scotland. Increased support for exporters. The depreciation of

:43:47.:43:52.

Stirling represents challenges to businesses in the UK but it also

:43:53.:43:56.

represents opportunities for companies to move into new Xbox

:43:57.:44:02.

markets. The UK should be investing more to support that -- export

:44:03.:44:07.

markets. I am putting forward a plan for how the UK Government can help

:44:08.:44:10.

at this critical juncture for our economy. I hope the Chancellor will

:44:11.:44:19.

act by the Autumn Statement. For our part, we have taken decisive and

:44:20.:44:24.

positive action to build on the economic strategy. ?100 million of

:44:25.:44:28.

capital investment provides immediate support to the Scottish

:44:29.:44:34.

economy. We have set up a new dedicated service for businesses

:44:35.:44:41.

affected by referendum uncertainty. And we have provided some loans of

:44:42.:44:46.

up to ?5 million for eligible businesses. As the Cabinet Secretary

:44:47.:44:51.

said we had good news on employment published last week. We have seen

:44:52.:44:55.

Scottish unemployment dipped below the UK level. But across a whole

:44:56.:44:59.

range of indicators, Scottish economic performance is lagging

:45:00.:45:06.

behind the UK as a whole. Whether that is GTB growth, business sales

:45:07.:45:08.

or confidence, we're not doing as well as we should be. That debunks

:45:09.:45:12.

the myth being put about in some quarters that any problems with the

:45:13.:45:16.

Scottish economy are purely the responsibility of the Brexit vote.

:45:17.:45:21.

The unique Scottish problem, but one which is holding backs got a

:45:22.:45:23.

recovery is the one they don't want to talk about on the their accession

:45:24.:45:29.

with an independence referendum. We have seen in recent weeks a whole

:45:30.:45:32.

range of business figures saying the last things Scotland needs at this

:45:33.:45:35.

point is another referendum. The last thing we need is another period

:45:36.:45:40.

of economic uncertainty, and yet, two years on from that last vote,

:45:41.:45:44.

one which we were told would be a once in a generation vote, all we

:45:45.:45:49.

hear from SNP figures is how and when another referendum should take

:45:50.:45:55.

place. In the wake of the Brexit vote, a survey of 320 firms across

:45:56.:46:01.

Scotland found 60% believed the outcome of the EU referendum will

:46:02.:46:06.

have a negative effect on their business. 67% believed the

:46:07.:46:11.

uncertainty created was an additional problem. As we all know,

:46:12.:46:15.

the people who will suffer most from any business downturn are those

:46:16.:46:22.

working people who are already on the most precarious contracts. Those

:46:23.:46:26.

who are already the lowest paid. We call on the Cabinet Secretary to

:46:27.:46:30.

join with us on calling on his own government to do more to stimulate

:46:31.:46:36.

investment. Let's look at how we can reclaim the economy so that it is

:46:37.:46:41.

run and its long-term strategic decisions are made in the interests

:46:42.:46:46.

of working people. Deputy Presiding Officer, I move the amendment in my

:46:47.:46:52.

name. That was Richard Leonard speaking there.

:46:53.:46:54.

Voting has ended in the bitter contest to be Labour party leader.

:46:55.:46:57.

More than 640,000 people have been choosing between Jeremy Corbyn

:46:58.:47:00.

The result will be announced on Saturday.

:47:01.:47:09.

The eternal sunshine is beating down on our correspondent David Porter.

:47:10.:47:18.

Yes, as far as the Labour leadership contest is concerned, it is all over

:47:19.:47:25.

now Bardi counting. How is it going to go and how will it play in the

:47:26.:47:30.

weeks and months ahead? Joining me now are two of my journalistic

:47:31.:47:36.

colleagues, David Maddox and Torvill Crichton. David, is there any doubt

:47:37.:47:41.

about how this contest will go? I don't think there's any doubt at

:47:42.:47:46.

all. I think Jeremy Corbyn has won it by a mile, possibly more. All the

:47:47.:47:52.

areas now see is whether the rebel MPs capitulate or how many of them

:47:53.:47:56.

capitulate and fall in line with him or how many go their own way and

:47:57.:48:00.

whether there is a bloodbath essentially. Lots of the selections

:48:01.:48:08.

of his moderates and we see a completely new Labour Party emerge

:48:09.:48:12.

from the wreckage? Torvill, do you agree with that assessment that it

:48:13.:48:17.

is Jeremy Corbyn and it is just by how many he wins by? He punched Owen

:48:18.:48:24.

Smith out of the ring. The new battle, Tom Watson versus Jeremy

:48:25.:48:28.

Corbyn. Tom Watson is more of a heavyweight, the deputy leader of

:48:29.:48:32.

the Labour Party and we saw the first round of that in the NEC. A

:48:33.:48:48.

0-0 draw. The Labour rebel MPs could walk back with dignity, Corbyn did

:48:49.:48:55.

not agree with that. A 2-0 result when getting a Scottish

:48:56.:49:02.

representative of the NEC and a Welsh representative. Kezia Dugdale

:49:03.:49:06.

is the Scottish leader. They put this deal through last night which

:49:07.:49:11.

is a personal win for her. We will deal with that specifically in a

:49:12.:49:17.

moment. Do you think it is possible but Jeremy Corbyn could do better

:49:18.:49:21.

this time? He got about 60% of the vote last time. How will that change

:49:22.:49:25.

the dynamics and tensions in the Labour Party? It is perfectly

:49:26.:49:31.

possible he could do better. John McDonnell is talking about 56% which

:49:32.:49:37.

means they probably expect 66%. His mandate will be even bigger. We will

:49:38.:49:42.

hear more about his mandate, more about direct control of the Labour

:49:43.:49:47.

Party. It is the new membership which has transformed membership.

:49:48.:49:52.

They are not all new. You meet a lot of old timer Labour Party store

:49:53.:49:55.

Watts who have been through thick and thin who are fed up and don't

:49:56.:50:02.

think middle ground is the answer and they like Corbyn. It is not just

:50:03.:50:08.

the entry is it you have old Labour activists who support Corbyn as

:50:09.:50:12.

well. He wants to empower them and at the same time, that means

:50:13.:50:18.

somebody loses. The people who will lose are the Labour MPs who want to

:50:19.:50:22.

do something as boring as getting Labour into power in this country.

:50:23.:50:28.

He is not interested in that. He is interested in building a big social

:50:29.:50:33.

movement across the UK. Three quarters of his Shadow Cabinet

:50:34.:50:38.

walked out. Is it possible that he can, for want of a better phrase,

:50:39.:50:42.

patch this relationship back together again? I am not sure that

:50:43.:50:47.

he needs to. I disagree with Torquil and away. The fight now is between

:50:48.:50:55.

Tom Watson and Jeremy Corbyn. Owen Smith was not up to it. I don't

:50:56.:51:00.

think Tom Watson has any ground to stand on really. If Corbyn, as we

:51:01.:51:04.

expect, comes in with a bigger mandate, then he has this mass

:51:05.:51:08.

movement behind him, he will be able to rewrite the party rules, he will

:51:09.:51:12.

be able to tell the MPs to be the fall in line or get out, and maybe

:51:13.:51:17.

it would be him doing it, maybe it will be John McDonnell who seems to

:51:18.:51:24.

be the iron fist in the velvet glove, and I really think we will

:51:25.:51:28.

see a fairly brutal reshaping of the Labour Party into a very hard left

:51:29.:51:33.

force in British politics. But they will not roll over and die these

:51:34.:51:37.

Labour MPs. I don't think we will see this fight this weekend. So many

:51:38.:51:43.

rebel MPs will not even go to the conference because they know they

:51:44.:51:48.

will get physically beaten up their -- figuratively beaten up there. Tom

:51:49.:51:58.

Watson, much as Jeremy Corbyn was supported by Unite, Tom Watson has

:51:59.:52:08.

links as well. A story we ran today, there is a plan involving Unite

:52:09.:52:12.

bankrolling to get rid of the regional directors. No one will have

:52:13.:52:16.

heard of the regional directors but they are important people who

:52:17.:52:19.

organise the party across the country. You get rid of them and you

:52:20.:52:27.

get rid of the thin red line between deselection and the Lamenting

:52:28.:52:33.

groups. It takes away all protection the moderate MPs have. -- the

:52:34.:52:44.

Momentum groups. Are we going to see a situation where Labour could

:52:45.:52:47.

split, the parliamentary party and Jeremy Corbyn's party there could be

:52:48.:52:53.

some kind of schism? I don't detect that. Where would they go? As the

:52:54.:52:59.

Lib Dems showed us this week, there is hardly any middle ground left in

:53:00.:53:06.

politics. You have a Corbyn Labour Party, a Brexit Tory party, and

:53:07.:53:13.

nationalistic SNP, very little middle road, middle ground politics

:53:14.:53:21.

in Britain right now. The problem is not Will Bayley 's? Will all be

:53:22.:53:27.

middle ground Owen Smith, Tom Watson supporting members leave and leave

:53:28.:53:33.

the party and vacate the ground? Is that a view that you share, that the

:53:34.:53:38.

Labour MPs will hunker down the moderate supporters will say this is

:53:39.:53:44.

not for me now? I think they will. Some will accept their fate as such.

:53:45.:53:48.

But I think the problem for the party is not Labour members as such,

:53:49.:53:52.

or even moderate Labour members, it is those people who voted Labour all

:53:53.:53:58.

their lives but were not party members who will just go elsewhere.

:53:59.:54:02.

They will go to the Conservatives, Ukip and the Lib Dems. That raises

:54:03.:54:08.

an interesting question. If Theresa May is looking at this and all the

:54:09.:54:12.

problems she has got with the Brexit negotiations, could she be tempted

:54:13.:54:15.

to say I will hold that general election sooner rather than later? I

:54:16.:54:20.

think it is a possibility. I have always thought it was a possibility.

:54:21.:54:24.

Her pictures to the centre ground. I know that has been the argument

:54:25.:54:32.

about grammar schools but that is pitched at middle-class working

:54:33.:54:35.

parents. It is not pitched at traditional Tory voters. I think she

:54:36.:54:41.

could do it. She would have to change the law in here to overcome

:54:42.:54:46.

the fixed term parliament act. Jeremy Corbyn would welcome it.

:54:47.:54:50.

Defeat is not really defeat for Corbyn, it just means he gets rid of

:54:51.:54:54.

a few troublesome MPs and at the next election be able to replace

:54:55.:55:00.

them and he can place them with candidates more in his own mould. A

:55:01.:55:05.

big fight within Labour. Labour are not really looking outwards to see

:55:06.:55:11.

if there will be a general election. Their fight is internal. Thank you

:55:12.:55:17.

both for a much for joining us. Gordon, we will get a flavour of the

:55:18.:55:20.

reaction to the new Labour leader, whoever that will be when they are

:55:21.:55:25.

elected on Saturday next week. Thank you.

:55:26.:55:28.

Let's get some final thoughts from Kieran Andrews.

:55:29.:55:33.

I presume you agree that Jeremy Corbyn is likely to win? You talk

:55:34.:55:43.

about a greater mandate. Last time Jeremy Corbyn had 60%. That was with

:55:44.:55:49.

three other candidates. If you did not get a wider percentage this time

:55:50.:55:53.

it would be surprising in a head-to-head against a wishy-washy,

:55:54.:55:58.

not up to a great deal Owen Smith. It is just a mess. The UK Labour

:55:59.:56:05.

Party at this time, where David Maddox touched on the Tories there,

:56:06.:56:09.

looking at grammar schools and Brexit, however you think they are

:56:10.:56:14.

handling it, any of these issues, it is pretty controversial either way.

:56:15.:56:18.

They are doing things which will affect a great any people's

:56:19.:56:23.

day-to-day lives. Even the Lib Dems at their conference, Tim Farron

:56:24.:56:26.

talking about putting money on income taxes to increase health

:56:27.:56:32.

spending. What is Labour's big pitch to the country, how they reorganised

:56:33.:56:36.

the Shadow Cabinet, how they run their internal politics. It is

:56:37.:56:40.

things that people don't care about, navel-gazing that will not get them

:56:41.:56:45.

back into power in any way, shape or form if they continue down this

:56:46.:56:51.

road. What you think the MPs who disagree with Jeremy Corbyn might do

:56:52.:56:56.

following this? Everyone is saying they will be unhappy if Jeremy

:56:57.:57:01.

Corbyn wins. They say I'm likely to split so what happens, it just goes

:57:02.:57:10.

on and happily forever. The most obvious place for someone to give is

:57:11.:57:20.

at an election. Jeremy Corbyn has not been tested with the electorate

:57:21.:57:26.

properly yet despite what he says about council by-elections. Which we

:57:27.:57:32.

should point out, Labour have done quite well in, while everybody has

:57:33.:57:36.

been saying what a disaster Corbyn is. When it has come to the test, so

:57:37.:57:41.

far he has done quite well. Absolutely. They gained in Glasgow

:57:42.:57:54.

and in Fife. The test so far but it takes a knockout 12 it takes a

:57:55.:58:00.

knockout one to test Jeremy Corbyn. Join us for First Minister's

:58:01.:58:03.

Questions tomorrow on BBC Two We'll be back next

:58:04.:58:05.

Wednesday, join us then. Unparalleled talent,

:58:06.:58:10.

unprecedented access. BBC Two takes a sneaky peek

:58:11.:58:49.

behind the celebrity curtain. Go out there, grab it with both

:58:50.:58:52.

hands and stick it in your mouth. Easy peasy, get yourself

:58:53.:58:57.

a catchphrase.

:58:58.:59:01.

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