24/01/2013 Politics Scotland


24/01/2013

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A very warm welcome to the Scottish Parliament at Holyrood. What is

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happening to the fall-out with David Cameron's European speech

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yesterday? The provision of beds and the health service generally.

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Ms peas were taking evidence on the provision of foreign language

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teaching in schools. The next half hour is blunt language, it is

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questions to the First Minister. Question number one. What

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engagements has he planned for the rest of the day? To take forward

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the Independent's programme for Scotland. The First Minister told

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the Today programme last week, we are going into talks with the

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European Commission. When are those talks going to take place? Joanne

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Lamont will have seen the European commission's view. Which states

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they have not expressed an opinion in terms of a specific situation

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regarding Scotland. All the stuff we had before Christmas according

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to the European Commission was not about Scotland. However, they did

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offer a route forward. They said that if a member state would want

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to ask for an opinion, then an opinion could be provided. We have

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made it clear to the UK Government that we could go jointly to the

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European Commission to find out what the commission's view is and

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we can get that viewpoint. That seems to be an entirely reasonable

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suggestion and perhaps Joanne Lamont will depart from her

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colleagues in the coalition Government and support the positive

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suggestion of this it is Government. I think we can workout you did not

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answer the question. If I can put aside what I am asked and say about

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something else might be an interesting thing to do, but it is

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not what you are supposed to do in this chamber. You said you were

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going into talks and since the First Minister made the assertion

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he was going to meet John Mann while Barroso before the First

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Minister had even received a reply asking for talks, what was the

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basis upon which the First Minister said he was going into talks with

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the European Commission? Was it the same basis when he said he had had

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legal advice, when he had not. That is, he made it up. I think the

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basis was which asked for talks with the European Commission on

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what seemed to be the viewpoint that they stated in December,

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widely reported, which applied to the case of Scotland. The European

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Commission has now replied saying they said no such thing. However, I

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think it would be useful for the European commission's view Pike to

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be heard. I want to hear their opinion and that is why the deputy

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First Minister has indicated we would jointly, with the UK

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Government, if they agree find out what the European Commission thinks.

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We have had since December some other important opinions on this

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matter. Sir David Edwards, the former Court judge at the European

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Court of Justice only this week seemed to profoundly support

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firstly the Scottish Government's viewpoint that we have indicated

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many times, we will negotiate from within the European Union, and in

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another opinion they should be two successor states with equal status

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with regard to each other. These profound and important legal

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opinions tend to give weight to the Scottish Government's point of view.

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I am sure Joanne Lamont has read them, and thus do them, and she

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will want to take account of them as we pursue this debate. It would

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be interesting, however, it Joanne will give me a second, to have an

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indication from the Labour Party... Order, order. If they are heading

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towards the exit door of the European Union. Forgive me for not

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allowing the First Minister his soundbite before he moved on.

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Because of course although the President has not spoken about the

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specific issue of Scotland he has said a new state well not have the

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treaty applied. I can only assume that while the First Minister wants

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to trim down the monarchy and the regulation of the banks, he thinks

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an independent Scotland will be a new state, but he can correct me if

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I am wrong in that regard. The President has said he cannot

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comment on the application to join the EU, but the Czechoslovakians

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foreign minister has promised. They will have a veto on an independent

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Scotland's EU application false --. Scotland would have to apply for

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membership. He went on to say Scotland would get a worse deal

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because, a much smaller country with much less economic importance

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has less weight. Why do you think they're foreign minister is

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scaremongering like that? Scotland is approximately the same

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geographical size as the Czech Republic. I have got the comments

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from the foreign minister and he was specifically asked would he

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want to block Scotland's entry into the European Union and he said no.

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Even the Czech foreign minister speaking before he realised the

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exit door to which the UK is heading under Cameron's leadership

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thought he would not want to stop Scotland being a member of the

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European Union. If the Czech foreign minister does not want to

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stop Scotland, why did the Labour Party seemed to cast some doubt on

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it? The events of the last 24 hours are a very interesting in this

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debate. It indicates the threat has gone's continued membership to the

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European Union does not come from this Parliament or the people of

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Scotland. It comes from the banks of the Thames and a Tory coalition

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Government who are heading towards the exit door and a Labour

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opposition who have still to clarify what on earth they think

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about it. I know that it is the First Minister's stock in trade to

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miss the point, however, what the Czech foreign minister is making

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the point about is not whether he would block Scotland, but what

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price they would extract from Scotland's membership of the UK.

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Alex Salmond and David Cameron are like these in a pod. They will

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always put... They will always put... Order, order. They will

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always put their parties' interest before the interests of the people

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of this country. There is nothing quite so negative as trying to

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mislead the country and perhaps that is why support for

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independence is at its lowest since devolution. Perhaps the people who

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hear him say he has legal advice when he has not do not believe him

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any more. Maybe the pensioner lying in a trolley in a freezing corridor

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does not believe him when he says he is doing a great job with the

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NHS. Maybe when he says he is doing everything he can to create jobs

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and then goes on a half-a-million planned trip to the Gulf people do

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not believe him. Because the reality is Alex Salmond cheered the

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Tories into Downing Street... order. He sees Tory welfare cuts as

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an opportunity for his party. And he celebrates, he celebrates, he

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celebrates Tory mistakes on Europe. In fact, is it not the case he

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loves the Tories so much he has taken... Order, order! Let me try

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it again so that you definitely hear it. In fact, is it not the

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case he loves the Tories so much he has taken support for independence

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down to Tory levels of popularity? I think Joanne Lamont should try

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many times again to get it right. I am not the one who is in the better

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together campaign. Hand in glove with the Conservative Party. Amid

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all that nonsense there was a serious point about the NHS. It is

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not acceptable for a patent to wait eight hours, less alone and 84

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year-old man from Glasgow. But the NHS conducts 1.5 million accident

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and emergency admissions in a year, about 6% over the last few years.

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Not all of these admissions are conducted in the manner that we

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would like and that is inevitable in an organisation. But you can

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measure whether the NHS improves or not. The facts are that when we

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took office in September 2006, 90.3% of patients waited less than

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four hours in accident and emergency. In September, 2012, 95%

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of patients waited less than four hours. These are the facts of

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improvement in the NHS, which must be driven forward, so we do not

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have any individual cases of 84 year-olds waiting six hours. I have

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dealt with Joanne Lamont's alliance with the Conservative Party. If the

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Labour benches do not like it, they should not be hand-in-glove in a

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better together campaign. The point of the European Commission is not

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that they say they are not going to comment, they say they have not

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commented on the Scottish situation, but allow the opportunity for the

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member state to go to find out the European commission's opinion. I

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would like to hear the European commission's opinion which is why

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the Deputy First Minister has indicated we would be willing to do

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that in a joint submission. Unfortunately, Joanne Lamont's

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allies in the Conservative and Liberal parties do not seem to have

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any enthusiasm. Is it because the proposition that comes forward from

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the Unionist parties that somehow energy rich, fishing rich,

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renewable which Scotland would not be welcomed with open arms into the

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European Union is absolutely incredible. In contrast to the

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anti-European attitudes prevailing in the House of Commons for many

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people across the Continent would welcome a pro-European Scotland

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into the community of nations. calling Joanne Lamont again because

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I expect any member in this chamber to be allowed to be heard when they

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ask their questions. Thank you very much, presiding officer. The SNP's

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position on Europe seems to have changed from of course we would be

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a member, to why wouldn't we be a member? On the question of the

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health service it is not good enough for a First Minister to come

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here and say everything is fantastic and for policy to shift

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and be driven by the fact a newspaper and a journalist raised

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these questions. It is about time the First Minister got his health

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minister to make sure the NHS was safe, rather than simply responding

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to stories that have to come into the papers in order for there to be

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action. Let the record showed I never said anything of the sort. I

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pointed out that 1.5 million admissions to accident and

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emergency and in any human organisation that some people would

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not be treated as we would like and that is not acceptable. It is not

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acceptable for an old person to wait that length of time on a

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trolley in a Glasgow hospital are anywhere across the NHS. The.

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Joanne Lamont did not like his we can tell through the statistics the

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improvement in the NHS and accident and emergency. If it was

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unacceptable now, as I say it is, was it not more acceptable in 2006

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when the Labour Party were in power and many thousands more people were

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in that position in the NHS? They NHS conducts itself and deals with

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7 million treatments over the course of a year and 1.5 in

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accident and emergency should be seen as a health service and its

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workers performing in the interests of the nation. Thank goodness there

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and Monkland accident and emergency services are open and not closed as

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the Labour Party would have done. Question number two. I would like

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to ask the First Minister when he will next meet the prime minister.

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No plans in the future. Despite the First Minister's party stations,

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there are many things on which there is clear water between us and

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Labour, not just Europe. Their defence is we are sound on Europe

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and they are not. We would give Scotland a say and they would not

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and neither would it seem with the First Minister. Why is that? Why is

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it when the research shows it twice as many Scots want a euro

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referendum than what Scotland delete the UK? Why would he not

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:14:56.:15:06.

The reason the SNP advocate a position, is we do not want to be

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in the European Union, therefore we do not argue for a referendum in

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that issue. But David Cameron says he wants to stay in the EU. When he

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is talking to other European leaders he says he is a great

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reformer who is going to save Europe. But in front of his

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Eurosceptic backbenchers, he says it is an in - a note -- and in oat

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referendum. Where is the urgency to have the euro referendum that we

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used to have for the Scottish referendum? If the negotiations

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fail, will the Conservative Party line-up and campaign against the

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EU? Ordered did David Cameron not bother to consult her when he made

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his speech yesterday? Yes, he did. Yes, I saw him, this

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week and last. The difference is, the Prime Minister is ready to

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negotiate a better deal for the UK, and year-old leaders like Angela

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Merkel are lining up to sit down for talks, and this minister cannot

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get through the door in Brussels for a simple meeting. I am grateful

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to the First Minister, because this week's something has become

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crystal-clear - bought for the UK and you have a chance for you see

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in Europe, vote for independence and he is telling you to leave it

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up to him. We all know which way Scotland is going. We also know

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that this First Minister is old enough to have had his say on

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Europe decades ago. But no one in Scotland under 55 ever has. No one

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under 55 in Scotland has ever had their say on Europe, and industry

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First Minister's world, they never will. The First Minister needs to

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explain to them why he would deny them their say. Can he? Why does he

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not trust them? In her first question, she seemed

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to imply that she was at least admitting the possibility, perhaps

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even accepting I was going to win the referendum. In her second, she

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seems to have considered the first election for an independent

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Scottish Parliament. -- conceded the first election. If they so wish,

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one name in 2016, they can go to the Scottish people and have

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exactly the same position as David Cameron has in 2015. But implied in

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the question is the acceptance that some hope with Davidson has come to

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the conclusion that, even under her dynamic leadership, the

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Conservative Party are not going to be threatening to many of the

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polling stations with their to rake in 2016. I think the circumstances

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of the last few days have fundamentally changed the debate in

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Scotland. -- the polling stations with their victory. The Labour and

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Tory campaigns have rested on the assumption that uncertainty would

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be created in terms of Scotland's position in Europe. It is obvious

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to any reasonable person now that the uncertainty of Scotland's

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position in Europe comes from the Conservative Party, led by the nose

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by Euro-sceptics, and the compromises David Cameron has made

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to hold onto his job. I doubt very much if the Scottish situation,

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never mind the Scottish Conservative Party or NEETs - --

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where any part of the Prime Minister's calculations. That is

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why Scotland is safer with independence as a European nation.

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A brief constituency supplementary from Hugh Henry. The bag you,

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Presiding Officer. On Monday night there was a major

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fire at a recycling plant in Johnson next to residential

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properties in the town centre. Some residents were evacuated and rail

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services to a Ayrshire were halted. Will the First Minister consider a

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review of legislation to ensure these operations are not located in

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public areas, and will he ask his minister to come and meet with me

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and relative -- Melville -- revel and aged -- relevant agencies?

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I am sure the Deputy First Minister will be happy to arrange a meeting

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to discuss the matter further, and I would have thought a discussion

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of the matter would be the right way to proceed, then to decide what

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action needs to be taken as a result of that meeting.

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Question number three, will he Rennie. To ask the First Minister

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what issues will be discussed at the next Cabinet meeting. As use of

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the importance to the people of Scotland. A -- issues of importance.

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The First Minister has been an advocate of an independent Scotland

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all his political life. I can understand why he might not want to

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give up on his ambition of an independent Scotland, but can he

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tell me, it Scotland votes no, will he engage with other parties on

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further powers for the Parliament? Nicola Sturgeon has urged us all to

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work together if Scotland votes yes. Will he want with us if Scotland

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walks no? -- will he worked with us? My memory on this is that Ollie

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Henry wants -- will he Rennie was desperate to avoid a devo max on

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the referendum. We see Scotland's future as independent, I have no

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idea of the Liberal Democrats and malty faced alliances between the

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anti-European Tories and the no further destination Labour Party,

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where the Liberal Democrats stand. The First Minister knows, the

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referendum is about whether Scotland stays as part of the UK or

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not. Even his old consultation rejected a second question. I do

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not understand why they are so shy about this. The Liberal Democrats

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are published plans for home rule in the UK. There is a consensus

:21:19.:21:23.

emerging bond more powers from all of those plants, and it seems to be

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endorsed by members of the public. Will he at least consider working

:21:28.:21:33.

with me and others on a new constitutional future if Scotland

:21:33.:21:38.

vote snow? His deputy want partnership, that is reasonable.

:21:38.:21:45.

Why doesn't he? The survey shows strong support for

:21:45.:21:48.

Scottish Parliament increasing powers, it also shows strong

:21:48.:21:51.

support for the Scottish Parliament having full powers. It also shows

:21:51.:21:57.

the majority support control of items such as social security,

:21:57.:22:01.

which have not even featured in any of the Liberal-Democrat its

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proposals. The Lib Dems have been extremely coy and reluctant about

:22:07.:22:12.

the referendum, then to have anything else on the ballot paper.

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Now, apparently we should revisit that in some way or rearrange the

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furniture. I do not see how that is tenable. The Liberal Democrats

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would not go into alliance with the SNP at one point because we wanted

:22:26.:22:30.

a referendum on independence. Now they are in alliance with the

:22:30.:22:36.

Conservative Party who want a referendum on Europe! At the

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Liberal Democrats are willing to produce the look European

:22:41.:22:43.

principles because they have office in the House of Commons at the

:22:43.:22:52.

moment, I do not think many people will regard them as reliable allies.

:22:52.:22:57.

My proposition to will he Rennie is that, given in the past at least

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Liberal Democrats have expressed the strongest support for Scotland

:23:00.:23:07.

having the strongest possible Paras, why doesn't he desert the European

:23:07.:23:11.

for Bic Conservatives and the no further Labour Party and, and

:23:11.:23:21.
:23:21.:23:26.

joined the yes campaign? -- the What the Scottish Government's

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position is on recent reports that Scotland is receiving less than its

:23:31.:23:38.

population sure of defence At the Freedom of Information on

:23:38.:23:44.

which the article is based reports that Scotland received 11 �9

:23:44.:23:54.

billion less than its population Shearer on major EU exempt projects.

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The on independence, this party could take charge of these powers.

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I notice that was backed by the former chairman of the defence

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industry representatives. Her recent surveys showed that Scotland

:24:09.:24:14.

could contain its defence because of an industrial capability that

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makes it attractive. The First Minister will be aware that the MoD

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announced earlier this week that up to 5,000 job losses are expected as

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a result of further are made redundancies. Can the First

:24:29.:24:36.

Minister raised this issue with the UK Government and seek clarity on

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has got one baby affected? And does he feel that instead of wasting

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billions of pounds on the obscenity of nuclear weapons, this money

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would be better spent maintaining the front line? I do think that,

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and I think the Conservative lead Government, which regarded defence

:24:57.:25:00.

Bint -- as a major issue in the constitutional debate should

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explain why people who have potentially been on the frontline

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fighting in Afghanistan are going to conform to P45s on their

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doorstep. Most human beings would find that disgraceful under the

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Conservative Party. I also note under the terms of Trident a

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correction in the Herald newspaper, it seems the previous job at

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estimates were based on double and triple counting. Both in terms of

:25:29.:25:33.

the real redundancies in defence, that are happening under the

:25:33.:25:36.

Conservative-led Government, and the least of expenditure of

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billions on a system of mass destruction, I think we would be

:25:40.:25:46.

far better if these areas were under Scottish control. The First

:25:46.:25:51.

Minister will be aware that the Scotsman report did not cover all

:25:51.:25:56.

MoD spending in Scotland, including the cost of extensive world-class

:25:56.:26:01.

protection for our oil rigs and gas rigs in the North Sea. Can he tell

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me, if Scotland were to the UK, how would this protection be provided?

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By the Scottish conventional defence forces, and the advantage

:26:11.:26:15.

would be we would have conventional forces protecting Scotland's

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interests in partnership with allies, as opposed to wasting

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billions on an unwanted, unusable system of weapons of mass

:26:22.:26:26.

destruction that the vast majority of Scottish MPs and the

:26:26.:26:32.

overwhelming majority of MSPs have thwarted against. If she actually

:26:32.:26:35.

believes in this Parliament, believes even in the views

:26:35.:26:39.

expressed by many people in the Labour Party, how on earth can she

:26:39.:26:43.

accept the situation of billions of expenditure are wasted on Trident

:26:43.:26:48.

while conventional forces are being run down by? And how can she

:26:48.:26:51.

possibly defend gun in the system of public spending cuts across the

:26:51.:26:54.

UK, these buildings going into weapons of mass destruction? I

:26:54.:26:57.

think she should look to our conscience and come up with a

:26:57.:27:04.

different answer. Thank you Presiding Officer, to ask

:27:04.:27:07.

the First Minister what the Scottish Government's response is

:27:07.:27:11.

to the Joseph Rowntree Report suggesting a boy born in one of the

:27:11.:27:16.

most deprived areas has a life expectancy 14 years below one born

:27:16.:27:21.

in the least deprived. The report and the number make

:27:21.:27:30.

profound points. Health should be a huge priority across this chamber.

:27:30.:27:35.

In the report, which makes serious reading, there was one welcome

:27:35.:27:39.

piece of confirmation that the child poverty rate in Scotland

:27:39.:27:48.

dropped 10% in the decade up to 2011, which is still far too high

:27:48.:27:56.

but it represents a significant and arrogant.

:27:56.:27:59.

The First Minister is correct that previous governments have been able

:27:59.:28:03.

to lift one third of children out of poverty, and the current

:28:03.:28:06.

Government's policies make the task harder but are not excuses for

:28:06.:28:11.

despair. Does the First Minister agree with the report's authors who

:28:11.:28:15.

were in Glasgow on Monday? Scottish ministers already have the power to

:28:15.:28:20.

make a real difference to help inequalities. The authors were

:28:20.:28:24.

clear - the poor should not have to wait for a referendum. Does he

:28:24.:28:29.

further agree that the young boy described by the report need --

:28:29.:28:33.

needs the Scottish Government's help now? Can the First Minister

:28:33.:28:38.

make any changes or policy priorities that recognise that is

:28:38.:28:44.

used particularly in public health help the better off most?

:28:45.:28:49.

The author's sport at the conference, therefore we speak --

:28:49.:28:53.

treat the content of the report seriously. I think Drew Smith is

:28:53.:28:57.

going to have be come to terms with an unavoidable fact - there is no

:28:57.:29:01.

question whatsoever, a major determinant of the immediate causes

:29:01.:29:06.

of poverty is what is available in the social security system. That

:29:06.:29:11.

system is run at Westminster at the moment. As far as I understand, the

:29:11.:29:16.

Labour Party supports it being run from there. The report details the

:29:16.:29:20.

substantial threat to the incomes of families in Scotland from the

:29:20.:29:25.

changes going through in social security at the moment. Drew Smith

:29:25.:29:31.

should be or where a of the measures the Scottish Government

:29:31.:29:35.

has taken to ameliorate some of the worst effects of the social

:29:35.:29:39.

security changes. The instead of 10 embarking on amelioration, we did

:29:39.:29:44.

not be fantastic if we could all these issues in Scotland and tried

:29:44.:29:51.

to turn back that threat to some of the poorest families in our land?

:29:51.:29:55.

Last week the child poverty Action Group said the Westminster

:29:55.:30:01.

Government policies would result in a staggering one million more

:30:01.:30:06.

children being dragged below the poverty line by 2,000 and windy.

:30:06.:30:09.

That means 85,000 Scottish children pushed into poverty by a Government

:30:09.:30:13.

we did not fought for. Does the First Minister agreed that the only

:30:13.:30:17.

way to protect a those killed and his independence, and we really are

:30:17.:30:27.
:30:27.:30:27.

not better together? -- to protect those children his independence?

:30:27.:30:31.

Goes on the Labour benches who moan and oppose the suggestion should at

:30:31.:30:36.

some stage come to the conclusion if the support Westminster have

:30:36.:30:39.

think this power, they are implicated in the decision that

:30:39.:30:43.

Government takes to reduce people in Scotland to penury. There is no

:30:43.:30:48.

escaping the fact, if they want different policies in terms of

:30:48.:30:51.

social protection in Scotland, they absolutely must be controlled by

:30:51.:30:56.

this Parliament. Perhaps at some stage the Labour Party will catch

:30:56.:31:00.

up with the attitudes reflected in the Social attitudes Survey and

:31:00.:31:03.

support social security coming under the province and power of

:31:03.:31:12.

this democratic Parliament in Scotland.

:31:12.:31:15.

The First Minister is probably aware that this is cervical cancer

:31:16.:31:20.

awareness Week. What steps can the Government take regarding education

:31:20.:31:28.

and awareness for cervical cancer to mark it is -- for cervical

:31:28.:31:29.

cancer? At bitter certainly correct that

:31:29.:31:33.

the earlier the cancer is diagnosed, the better the chance of a cure.

:31:33.:31:40.

We know that the best screening is at early stages, and women are

:31:40.:31:44.

invited to be screened every three years. As well as information on-

:31:44.:31:48.

screen income we have information on the signs and symptoms of cancer.

:31:48.:31:52.

This week is cervical cancer prevention week. The message from

:31:52.:31:55.

this Government, and I am sure the old Tudor, is that anyone

:31:55.:31:58.

experiencing these signs and symptoms should see your GP

:31:58.:32:06.

straight away. I am sure the First Minister will

:32:06.:32:11.

congratulate the cervical Cancer Trust and what they do for women

:32:11.:32:15.

throughout the country. What ordination within the health boards

:32:15.:32:18.

can the First Minister asked for in terms of the awareness regarding

:32:18.:32:28.
:32:28.:32:35.

this? There is a decline in the $:/STARTFEED.. There is a programme

:32:35.:32:45.
:32:45.:32:48.

that highlight the screening programmes available. Nationally

:32:48.:32:52.

the information we provide this key to allowing women to make an

:32:52.:32:57.

informed choice. I would be delighted to arrange a meeting with

:32:57.:33:00.

the Health Secretary and Dennis Robertson to take forward and to

:33:00.:33:04.

look in particular at these are worrying indications that perhaps

:33:04.:33:09.

information is not getting through. That concludes First Minister's

:33:09.:33:19.
:33:19.:33:20.

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