25/05/2016 Politics Scotland

Good afternoon and welcome to Politics Scotland.

The First Minister sets out her priorities for government

We'll bring you highlights of exchanges

in the chamber as MSPs get down to business.

Here at Westminster, clashes over the taxes paid

by multinational companies, and an important report devolution.

Bee business of Parliament gets going today. We bring you what the

First Minister and the opposition parties have to say shortly, but the

political editor of the Tiger McGreevy Currier joins me today it

is showing Nicola Sturgeon committed to education as a top priority. She

said Sherwood do that during the campaign trail. She said that again

when she moved John Swinney into the brief, that is significant in

itself. What we have heard so far puts education at the forefront

again. It is bringing the International Council of economic

advisers, which sounds like the world's worst superhero group

ex-macro but it signals what she wants to do, learn from other

countries and improve the education system. We aren't sure what this

amounts to yet, but they have been saying is that the SNP are thinking

slightly different ways, it's not just curriculum for excellence.

There's testing, talk of maybe changing the governing of schools.

Maybe learning from what happened in England.

There are lots of maybes. The SNP's manifesto left itself a lot of

wriggle room on education. It looks like they are explaining different

options. It won't be easy for them. Education in Scotland has been on

the slide, Nicola Sturgeon has acknowledged that. It's going to be

tough. I'm not just making a point about the SNP government you, the

previous administration, if we start to admit there is a problem, that in

itself is progress. Absolutely. By looking outwards,

away from Scotland, to other countries it is a sign of steps,

possibly, in a positive direction. It's not stuck in the same old

starters quote that Scotland is often accused of.

-- status quo. Before we move on, you were at a party last night with

the new members of the Scottish Parliament, what did you make of

them quiz-macro there is a lot of talent.

Some people will shine through from unexpected places. Not all the

shadow ministers, the prominent faces that we kind of knew

beforehand. There are some interesting characters. So we might

have some people become quite prominent? Yes, there is depth to

many of them as well. Now we hear from Nicola Sturgeon who are blind

to the top priorities for government in a statement to MSPs a short time

ago. There is no doubt whatsoever that

the expansion of childcare will be the most important infrastructure

project of this Parliament. It will help parents, particularly

mothers come into work. It will be an investment in the chances of our

children. The support we give children in

their earliest years will complement and contribute to our efforts to

further improve school education. I believe that Scotland has a good

education system, we have great schools, and great teachers.

We have a new curriculum, record exam passes and more young people

leaving on to go to positive destinations.

We will never talk down what we have.

But we are determined to do better. It is not acceptable that school

leavers from the most deprived 20% of areas in Scotland, if we look as

high as of one measurement, do half as well as those from affluent

areas. Our aim is to ensure that Scotland's

education system delivers excellence for all. Our manifesto set out a

range of reforms to achieve that aim.

We will shortly begin discussions to find a new form for schools to

ensure that resources go with a need it most.

We will expand our attainment funds and invest an additional ?750

million over this Parliament specifically targeted at closing the

attainment gap. From next April, ?100 million a year of that money

will go direct to headteachers, so that they, not councils, or central

government, will decide how best to use it to deliver improvements in

their schools. We will undertake work to empower teachers and parents

within a framework of national policy to drive more of the

decisions that shape the lives of their schools.

We will implement the new national improvement framework, including new

standardised assessments that would have inform teacher judgment. I

ensuring that we have reliable data, the improvement framework will

insure us -- enable us to measure the attainment gap and set precise

and transparent targets were closing it. Our reforms are substantial.

John Swinney will publish a draft delivery plan setting out more of

the detailed timescales and next steps in our plans to close the

attainment gap. It will build on discussions he is having with

teachers, parents, local governments and trade unions. Let me stress that

point about consultation, I want our work to close the attainment gap to

be the mission not just of this government, or even this Parliament,

but the country as a whole. I wanted to be guided by evidence from around

the world, that is why I announce that I will establish an

international Council of education advisers. I wanted to be built, as

far as possible, on consensus. I can confirm today that we will convene a

major summit on School reform and raising attainment, it will bring

together key stakeholders in education to look at what each of us

can do to raise attainment, and how collectively we drive this work

forward. We will invite party leaders and

education spokespeople to attend. We will work hard to build consensus

and partnership. However, what we will not do, is

allowed to search for consensus to result in Inish all the lowest

common denominator for action. We intend to be bold, and move forward

with pace. We have a precious opportunity over

the next five years to make real and lasting improvements, for the

benefit of this, and future generations. We are absolutely

determined to seize that opportunity.

Presiding Officer, giving young people the best school education is

about equipping them for the rest of their lives. We are also determined

to extend the opportunities open to young people later in life. We will

deliver additional 5000 apprenticeships in skilled careers,

taking the total number to 30,000 by 2020. We will work with schools to

inspire more young people, boys and especially girls, into science,

engineering and technology. We will use our new powers, when we have

them, to introduce a jobs gap to help young people aged 16 to 24 who

have been unemployed for six months or more to move into and remaining

work. We will maintain full-time equivalent college places and focus

on skills and training that help young people into work.

We will widen access to university. By 2030 we aim to ensure that 20% of

Scottish domiciled university entrants will come from our 20% most

deprived communities. University education will remain free of

tuition fees, French door or back door, for as long as the SNP is in

government. -- front door. I know, from my own personal

experience, that free tuition is essential to supporting

working-class young people into university. Though it is essential,

I also know that it is not sufficient. We must also break down

the other barriers, financial, cultural and institutional barriers

that mean young people from poorer backgrounds are less likely to go to

university than their more affluent peers. Over the summer we will

appoint a commission for fair access to drive the change that will be

needed in our universities and colleges, to ensure the

recommendations of the widening access commission are implemented in

full. The target we are setting is clear.

A child born today in one of our most deprived communities must, by

the time they leave school, have the same chance of getting to university

as a child of the same ability from one of the more well off parts of

the country. That is a fundamental part of what I

mean by a and equal society. During this Parliament, of course,

we will assume important new responsibilities over Social

Security. We will introduce a Social Security Bill in the first year of

this Parliament and start work to establish a new Scottish Social

Security agency. We will use our new powers to put

dignity and respect back at the heart of the Social Security system.

We will abolish the bedroom tax, we will make changes to how universal

credit can be paid, we will extend winter fuel payments to families

with severely disabled children and we will restore entitlement to

housing support for 18 to 21-year-olds. We will end, once and

for all, the degrading DWP approach to disability assessments and we

will ensure that disability payments are not reduced or means tested.

We will increase carers allowance, and I can announce today that we

will also consider the introduction of a young carers allowance to

provide extra support for young people with significant caring

responsibilities. This is a poser that was in the

Green party manifesto, I think it has real merit and I will now ask

groups for their views on how to take it forward. Presiding Officer,

our new responsible at is will give us the chance to develop a Social

Security system which respect the dignity of individuals as human

beings. Rather than stigmatising those with disabilities, those who

cannot find work, we value their potential and help them contribute

to society. That was the first Minster outlining

her plans. There was quite a lot in that. Just let's pick a few

highlights. First of all, a child from a deprived background will have

the same chance of getting into university, that setting the bar

pretty high, obviously everyone will welcome it, but if that is what she

wants to be judged on that is a tough one to me!

It's very ambitious. It's not just about education reforms. You can't

change the school system and at the same time, change the school system

does not improve social, social studies. It doesn't help people out

of poverty which is key to giving people...

She wants her First Minister list ship to be judged on that.

She's got a tough job there. I don't think anyone would have much of a go

if she didn't achieve exactly that, but I suppose from the SNP point of

view, what is the point in not aiming as high as you can. Why sell

yourself short by setting the bar lower!

The comments about teachers, they are saying don't think you're going

to stop is doing this. Teachers at the moment are

threatening industrial action because they say they are overworked

and don't have enough time. They are saying, fine, we will discuss this,

but don't think it will stop is changing things. The old ways won't

do any more. It is interesting that she is prepared to take on the

establishment. A new funding form in other schools,

does that mean anything this might not bypass local

authorities but somehow they are being told it's got to go.

Nicola Sturgeon has announced they will be money that will bypass local

authorities. Yes, but that was the attainment

fund. I think this is a similar approach.

This is diminishing the power of councils, it's quite a bold step.

We'll be back with you later, but first let's hear what the Scottish

Conservative leader, Ruth Davidson, had to say in her response to Nicola

Sturgeon. Today this Parliament begins the

real work of holding the government to account for the next five years.

I believe that task has never been more important.

We get down to business today in the knowledge that decisions on

education, the health service and all our public services have been

stacking up and now require attention.

Added to that of a huge new responsibilities Parliament is soon

to take over tax and welfare. No longer are we here simply to

argue over how best the government spends a fixed sum. We now have to

decide how best we raise money, which people and businesses that

money is taken from, and how we grow the economy so that those funds

increase. The boards and risks are great, but it is clear to me, that

if the last session was about deciding the shape and identity of

our country, this session is about policy direction and the goals of

For me, it makes fax, and even more important. My group of MSPs

determined to bring this Committees. The Conservative group

were elected on a promise to provide a strong opposition to the Scottish

Government. That does not mean shouting louder,

in noting harder or a more frenzied gnashing of teeth, instead, we

intend to challenge the policies of this government. If the government

wants support, we want to see the evidence and support that back their

plans up. We will set out a clear vision, not

crowding out individual freedom but to liberate it which offers support

for families to lead better lives and prioritising those who needs it

most. And which recognises the government cannot do it all and the

government at its best is in partnership with society. The First

Minister has been criticised for caution and inaction during her

first 18 months of tenure and that has done. But the fact is the First

Minister and her team have a huge opportunity now to build on that to

use the next five years in office to make a real and lasting difference.

But it requires them to take the roast -- right course. Either take

the easy option and take regular pot shots at the hope the show stays on

the road or it can take the hard road. A choice which focuses on

bringing about long-term change right now. Change that will cause

conflict among vested interests and create hostility. Of that I am

certain. But change that will show this government has left its mark.

That will show in a decade's time that this government was not just

about one thing only, but that it made a lasting difference that

Scotland can benefit from. We asked to be a strong opposition because we

wanted to encourage a better government and that is the task we

set ourselves today. On policy, she has said education is a priority. On

the economy, we welcome the news yesterday that inward investment is

up in Scotland. A lesser woman than me would remark... But we should not

let figures blind as to the fact that our growth rate last year was

0.4% behind the UK's as a whole and implement is labouring again. The

jobless rate is higher than that of the rest of the UK. These figures

show an amber warning for the Scottish Government. The note of

caution is being repeated by firms large and small across Scotland. Liz

Cameron tells us that Scotland is now on a knife edge between further

growth and a new period of recession. We know we have an

economy which is dangerously reliant for growth on big infrastructure

projects which are alone are not enough so we need to plan for

growth. A plan that demonstrates that Scotland is open for business.

On tax, this isn't about ideology but recognising the reality we face

and a test for us when deciding whether to support or oppose this

government will be whether we help or hinder growth. We will call at

short-sighted fixes or tax rates born then the bar of the event,

Saints. -- than on common sense. Quite simply, we must give people

and firms reasons for starting here and settling here and for growing

their business is here. I am aware the Scottish Government will face

pressure to do the opposite. I read already that the three Amigos, the

Greens, labour and Lib Dems are teaming up at our mind my friends it

was this positive forward-looking prison for Scotland which saw them

lose seats between them this month. If you want to charge up the valley

of death, be my guest. But to the Scottish Government I say that there

is no long-term future in a policy direction which will only suck

enterprise out of Scotland. We need to support and encourage our

businesses and not horrible than by imposing Lebanese, -- levies and

increasing rises in taxes. There is so much more besides that we can do

and to areas will be a priority for us. We will press the Scottish

Government to encourage a new house-building revolution with a

streamlined planning system and improved infrastructure we should

aim to build homes over the next few years and half of them affordable. I

welcome the commitment to 50,000 affordable homes and we will hold

them to that. Secondly, with the Scottish Government capital budget

rocketing let us see that put to good use. We will press for a

transformative investment in energy efficiency and we will call for ?1

billion to be invested in our warm homes proposals. Not just to cut

bills and reduce emissions, but to help the mental, physical and

restrict tree health of home dwellers and create thousands of new

jobs as well -- respiratory. The Scottish Government previously said

that energy efficiency is a national infrastructure priority and today we

are told of a warm homes built. But they have shown no plans and

allocated little budget in making it so. We say put your money where your

mouth is and make energy efficiency a proper priority. 65% of all homes

and 80% of rural homes have a rating of D or worse. Invest in bringing

those homes up to scratch, reduce fuel poverty, start hitting some of

the Parliamentary environmental targets and create a warm and

healthier Scotland and see thousands more people employed and that

employment spread right across the country, even to the most remote

areas. Before members and the government stop protesting about the

lack of funding, I suggest they first examine whether their own

government is spending its money wisely.

To the chamber live now, where Kezia Dugdale,

the Scottish Labour Leader, is offering her view

It lets an opportune -- represent an opportunity and a threat. He

represented a future where existing jobs on redundant and those set to

replace them are still to be discovered. If we are not ready we

will be left behind. I am with the First Minister when she says

education is a top priority. I am pleased to see John Swinney in the

critical role of Education Secretary. However, if the SNP

except that investing in education, skills, science and technology is

the route to growing our economy then John Swinney will need to be

the first Education Secretary to convince the Finance Secretary not

to cuts the education budget. Because it was his cats which

removed over 4000 teachers from our schools and 152,000 students from

our colleges. His whether financial constraints which saw university

staff on picket lines today and teachers balloting to strike soon.

Recently, education and training budgets have been cut by 10%. The

First Minister had a lot to say about education today but not that

she would protect the education budget. It must be protected and

enhanced or we will be left behind by other countries. There is no

greater imperative for using the power of this Parliament to stop

those cuts now and invest in taking this nation forward. It was JFK who

said that our progress as a nation can be no swifter than our progress

in education. The human mind is our fundamental resource will stop here

we understood this long before he coined it. We lead the world in

education and our ambition should be no less than to do so again. That

will not be achieved with tinkering with the governance of schools or by

introducing a failed model of testing. It will do it by increasing

teacher numbers again and making student support fit for purpose in

higher and further education and by closing the attainment gap between

the richest and the rest were ever poorer due to level go to school. We

will do it by recognising that we have some of the best trained and

most professional teachers anywhere in the world and we should support

them, not drive them to industrial action. We will do it by putting our

colleges back where they belong at the centre of the education system.

And by everyone we mean women return is all pretty much everyone who will

find themselves retraining once or more than once during their working

lifetime. We will do it by recognising that universities are

about more than teaching undergraduates but also the drivers

of innovation, competition in global markets and international

partnership insiders which will shape this nation and our world. We

can make a Scotland of that kind of imagination, innovation and

progressive vision driving forward. All we can continue to cut back on

education budgets, close down avenues of advancement, drive

teachers and lecturers to the display of industrial action --

despair. We can kid ourselves regarding efficiency drives and

avoid facing up to what schools, colleges and universities really

need. Presiding Officer, over the next five years I look forward to

working with the government when we agree and encourage them in the

right diet -- direction when we do not. All of us share a

responsibility for building a fairer and more decent Scotland that we all

want to see and everyone of us holds even more power to do that in our

own hands so let's get to work. Thank you.

APPLAUSE We should have a short pause to

reflect on the fact we saw the leader of the Conservative Party

speaking first and the leader of Labour speaking second because

that's the big Jack -- change, isn't it customer absolutely. It will

transform the dynamic of the Parliament over this

term. The Conservatives will be the largest opposition party. The Tories

will say they are more ideological opposed to the SNP rather than to

high tax parties who may need discipline -- disagree on the

constitution. With Ms Davidson's contribution we were see the kind of

difference we will see. A lot was talked about education and a

transformative policy area. But with Ruth Davidson it was about the

economy and potentially what we'd expect. Hold on a second. How will

we pay for this? And that has the Conservatives are the largest

opposition and as Harley macro gets more power it will become a big

dynamic. It is a different tenor, isn't it? In the past we've had

Labour governing and the SNP saying you're not spending enough was done

then we heard the SNP and Labour saying you're not spending enough on

this. It's a completely different tenor. One of the things Ruth

Davidson said was that they should look at spending the money they can

spend wisely before telling us you don't have... That's just one

example. They will say is not just about money but what you do.

Absolutely. Before, it was almost like the Scottish parliament was

like a child getting pocket money. Now they have to go out to work and

bring it in and that means you have to justify what you do with it

because you ask and the Scottish Government is asking people to pay

whatever rate they say. A bit more of the same, or a bit more than the

rest of the UK and that means they now have two really justify what

they do with the cash and show that it's working and it's the right

thing to do. And presumably more pressure and again we got a sense

there from the Conservatives to say, you've got to think about the impact

on the broader economy. You can't do things that just hurt business, for

example. It makes sense for nature -- Nicola Sturgeon to have is lit

John Swinney's task into two briefs. It shows that the Scottish

Government recognises this. Things haven't been great recently and Ruth

Davidson referenced the prime at rate that's gone up an economy

hasn't been in a brilliant place. It shows that something needs to

change. We will have to wait to see whether this new transformation at

the heart of government will have that positive impact.

Kezia Dugdale I think even Labour would accept that they need and

United to recover from the shock. Did you see any signs of it? No, it

was the same narrative from the election. A focus on -- education

and they also talked about needing to generate money again. That

suggested and hinted at higher tax rates again. Nothing changed in the

narrative which, if you are being kind, at least Kezia Dugdale is

sticking to her guns and is being principled, which is admirable. But

be -- we saw from May that it doesn't chime with Scottish voters

and there's no reason to suggest they change their minds in the last

few weeks. Now, staying at the Scottish

Parliament, I'm joined by MSPs from all five parties

in the parliament. Stewart Stevenson from the SNP,

Liz Smith from the Conservatives, Labour's Daniel Johnson, Ross Greer

from the Greens and Mike Rumbles Stewart Stevenson, making the

education system work in such a way that a child from a deprived

background has an equal chance of going to university. I mean, I

didn't pick up there, perhaps I missed it, is there a timescale on

this? There's 20% of the most disadvantaged areas will represent

20% of the entrance to university. I picked up that it was by 2020.

That's within the life of this Parliament.

By the very nature of the case, I'm not trying to have a go, it's an

ambitious target. As you know, it's not a simple thing to do. It's not

like saying we'll will spend X amount of money. You could spend all

the money in the world and this might not work.

We have seen also that the First Minister said they will be a focus

on support for teachers and schools in disadvantaged areas. It isn't

simply a question of setting an aspiration and hoping it all comes

to good, it's about targeting attention to the areas that will

make a real difference. I think the appointment of John Swinney as the

Minister for education, with all the triffid experience he brings,

central to the way the government works, shows that we are not just

setting targets, we are resource in the meeting of these targets on

putting ministers in place that have ambition and know how to deliver on

it. We are helping, directly, schools that will be the feed stream

for people who were going to come from disadvantaged areas to go to

university. Liz Smith, what did you make of

that? I presume you welcome such a target, and perhaps, give the SNP a

bit of leeway if they don't quite muted but to make substantial

progress towards that, that would be welcomed by everyone, wouldn't it?

What I substantially welcome is the focus on early years. There is

cross-party consensus that that is where it matters. Every piece of

educational research and look to point to that. The SMB have to be

careful about putting too much focus on widening access that rattled the

SNP. The real focus has to be on early years. I was pleased to hear

what Nicola Sturgeon said about the earliest years but a little

concerned about the widening access in colleges and universities.

But widening access and this ambitious targets that every... A

child from a deprived background should have an equal chance of going

to university as a child from a wealthy background, I thought you

would welcome that? They are not targeting imports, they are

targeting outcomes, that is a more difficult thing to achieve.

I welcome the fact that there is an appropriate policy in the early

years, that is really focus ought to be. Don't want a situation where you

are telling universities they must have 20% of their intake from the

20% deprived communities, if you do that, without providing more

university places, without funding you will squeeze out existing

students. That's why the focus has to be in the earliest years and

early primary years which is where the attainment gap is extensive.

Daniel Johnson, you are new to this game,... I hope it doesn't show!

Kieran Andrew says that Labour leads a new narrative, arguably what Kezia

Dugdale said sounded a little tired. It's not really going to have much

cutting edge, you've just lost an election on that. You need something

more to say about education. Look, we welcome the focus on

education. It was right that Nicola Sturgeon spoke en masse at length,

but it is as if they haven't been in government for nine years. We went

into the election with a very clear argument about how we would

resource, how we would fix those issues. We are sticking to that

because we think it's right that if we want public services to improve

we ask people to give a little bit more. People supported those

arguments. In the lead up to the election, but

not at the election! For me, it proved very successful!

A blast from the past, and a breath of fresh air for the future. That's

how you could describe yourself, what the SNP are proposing an

education, you can't call it a people premium if you like. It is

pretty much the same thing you were posing?

But it was followed rhetoric today. You've got grand schemes and grand

projects, but you've only got a look at the actions.

By their actions you shall know them. Be fair, Nicola Sturgeon has

said what the targets are, she said she wants her First Minister tenure

to be judged by this. She is being specific.

There's speech was followed of new targets. To give you an example, the

climate change targets have failed completely, so she is setting new

ones. It's great setting targets, but they aren't achieving what they

set out to do. There was no decision today, announced by Nicola Sturgeon,

to protect the education budget. If it is her number one priority look

at what she is going to do. With health, for instance, she is lauding

how much action they will spend on health, but look at what she didn't

say. She didn't say the going to pass on all the money they get from

the UK Government for health, oh no, it's all rhetoric we heard today. By

her actions, she will be judged. And now another new face. You,

presumably, agree with the focus on education, but do you agree with the

way Nicola Sturgeon set... Is going to go about it? There was a

large to be welcomed. But this is not just about how much money we put

at it. It's about the approach we take. There are more innovative ways

we need to look at this. For example the campaign about potentially

raising the age at which children start primary school, or looking at

whether standardised testing is the right approach. We, obviously,

didn't think it was. It's about the approach that you take. We need to

look at countries that are far more successful than us at creating a

successful early years education and holistic education system and look

at what we can replicate in a Scottish setting. Stuart Stevenson,

we've got a wonderful view of all five of you as we pan across. This

international Council, what is that supposed to do? How do you judge it?

If you look at Finland, which is the one that is always cited, they got a

wonderful education system but if you look at the economy it's a bit

of a basket case. It's ambiguous that you're looking at it, isn't it?

Bringing international expertise to the table and opening the door to

people from other political parties wider than Scotland is precisely the

action you would expect from a government led by Nicola Sturgeon.

She's been very clear that she's not going to look simply to SNP

resources for ideas, the carers allowance... But what about the

point that one of our project is made that you have had nine years to

turn education round. You've had nine years to sort this out.

The most recent figures show we are making the kind of progress we want

to make. What we are doing in resource and it's the way that we

are, and looking at ideas from others, it simply mustn't be

domestic and looking for good ideas. It absolutely going to challenge

everything we do. I thought that figures showed

England was catching up, and in some respects overtaking, not that

Scotland was doing better. Between 2014 and 2015 Scotland was

beginning to make the difference that we sought to make.

Liz Smith, do you think the international figures do show that

we are getting better? We don't know for certain because we

have withdrawn from some of the figures.

Cheap shots aside! It's not a cheap shot, it is important that we are

back in these measures so we have richer detail to measure not just

how children are getting on but how schools are getting on. That is the

sort of data that you get from pearls and stems but not from Pisa.

Daniel Johnson. It's all well and good, but we've seen a fall in

funding, a fall in the number of teachers. We need to do it, rather

than just saving want to do it. But England are doing relatively

well compare to Scotland, maybe not overtaking, but catching up, does

this reflect badly on the Labour Administration as well? You didn't

carry out any of the Blair reforms that they did in England?

We are nine years into an SNP government, they are starting to

make a difference, but that's not good enough! It does boil down to

funding. Labour made it clear... Does it

boiled down to funding though Mike? You are presumably to mentally proud

of education in England because the Liberal Democrats helped to run it?

We saw real money invested in education which has reduced to the

attainment gap between the wealthy and the less wealthy. Daniel is

absolutely right, it comes down to actually putting your money where

your mouth is. I was incredibly disappointed by Nicola Sturgeon's

speech today. It was all rhetoric, hardly anything announced in

practical terms to make a difference to people. A lot of consultations,

group set up, but it was appalling as far as I am concerned. I hope to

make a contribution to this debate. There was no idea about

transformational investment in education. We have just cut a

college places, you can't stand up in Parliament with rhetoric... I

said earlier on, judge them by their actions.

Scott Greer, it's Ross. Is Mike rumbles being unfair to

Nicola Sturgeon, a lot of people will have said this is a pretty

ambitious series of things she has set out here.

Give her a chance. I think it is a bit unfair. There was a lot of

rhetoric in that speech, but there was a loss to welcome as well. For

example, the SNP adopting the policy on a young carers allowance. We are

not going to solve the attainment gap puny looking at it within the

education portfolio. Other areas come into play. We need to look at

housing, low wages, that's how we tackle this.

And another beautiful shot for the viewers of all five of you. We have

to leave it there. Sadly we have to go to Westminster, not sadly,

because we have David Porter with the EU referendum continues to

dominate. David, glad to see you in the sunshine. The IFF is dead for

fiscal studies has offered its view, what is the reaction for that. They

say that it could delay recovery from a austerities we leave the EU.

What they have said, and you are right, they are almost the gold

standard for reporting on government and financial matters. They have

said that if Britain was to leave the European Union they could say

something like ?8 billion a year on fees repaid the union, bats, that

would be more than offset by a fall in economic output and a shrinkage

in the economy. They say it would mean that tax and government

receipts would be far lower. They say that in financial terms it would

be a bad thing for Britain to leave the European Union. They said the

deficit could be something between 20 and ?40 billion. They have said,

in the worst-case scenario, it could mean that auntie austerities

measures that the government are taking could go for two years. There

has been a furious reaction from the leave side, they have accused the

IFS of taking funding from the even union for research. I think it is

interesting, not just what the IFS have been saying, those things have

been said before. But who has been saying it because they are so widely

respected. Also, the few rear of the leave campaign and the way that

within the campaign itself they have been slight divisions as to the way

they have reacted to this. I just wondered about that. Obviously these

are forecasts, and there are margins of error, but there is now a very

long list, isn't there, of respected international organisations that

believe people are just saying you can't believe a word they say? Yes,

there are various organisations. What leave are saying is that you

have to realise that this work by IFS is not their work. They have

looked at a number of studies and passed a judgment on it. They argue

that, can you take this as an independent organisation, because

the IFS get something like 10% of its funding from the European Union.

IFS say however much money they would get, they still carry out that

research in the independent way. And this -- the Scottish Affairs

Committee are studying this, aren't they? Yes, they have been hearing

from representatives from those who want to remain within the EU in

Scotland and the evidence they heard came down to, we've been through

this before with the independence referendum in 2014. But their

spokesman from Scotland Stronger in Europe said it's different the way

the campaign is panning out in Scotland and the rest of the UK.

The narrative is different in Scotland. I was once held up in a

previous job for saying Scotland wasn't more pro-European. But there

is some truth in that. Some issues don't ring true with Scottish

audiences and cars devolution has reminded people that sovereignty

lies in various places, Edinburgh, London and wherever we choose to

share it. Of course, it is called the Scottish Affairs Committee, but

not all on the committee are Scots and one who is well-known to English

audiences is the Eurosceptic Kristoffer choke MP on the south

coast of England. -- Kristoffer choke and he made it plain he didn't

agree with the argument Mr Edward put forward. If we leave the EU and

then the Scots will be able to have control over Scottish fiction --

fetching which they've lost. -- fishing. They would be able to have

control over Scottish agriculture and they would be able to charge

fees in universities and colleges for students from Europe. And then

Scots would be able to access higher education because they are being

squeezed out due to lack of resources. That meeting is still

going and and we will hear from representatives soon. I will leave

you with a cheery thought. A mug of this to go.

Now to Prime Ministers Questions, where the Chancellor stood

in for David Cameron, who's attending a G7 summit,

and his counterpart replaced Jeremy Corbyn this week.

The Deputy Labour Leader, Angela Eagle, questioned

George Osborne on the government's deals with Google, after

the company's Paris Headquarters were raided last night

Osborne urgently look again at the case of an Australian family

living in the Highlands who are facing deportation.

Mr Speaker, given the overnight news of the French authorities' dawn

raids on Google invested in -- investigating fraud and

money-laundering, does the Chancellor regret causing this cosy

little tax deal good news for the British taxpayer? Well, it is good

news that we are collecting money in tax from companies that paid no tax

when the Labour Party was in office and she seems to forget she was the

Exchequer's secretary in the last government. So perhaps when she

stand that she can tell us whether she ever raised with the Inland

Revenue at the time the tax affairs of Google. He is seven years old and

he attends a primary school in Dingle in the Scottish Highlands.

Next week, the home Department plans to deport him and his family despite

the fact that he arrived -- arrived as part of a Scottish Government

initiative backed by the Home Office to attract people to live and work

in the region. The case has been front-page news in Scotland and has

been repeatedly raised in the House. What does the Chancellor had to say

to the family and the community who want them to stay? As I understand

it, the family don't meet the immigration criteria. The Home

Secretary says she is very happy to write to the Right Honourable

gentleman on the details of the specific case. I am Surrey but this

has been going on for weeks and that is not good enough. Appeals have

been made to the Home Secretary by the First Minister, the local MP,

the local MSP, by the community and it is wall-to-wall across the media

of Scotland and the Chancellor of the Exchequer clearly knew nothing

about it. The problem is the Highlands of Scotland is not

immigration. It has been emigration. Even at this late stage, knowing

nothing about it, well the Chancellor speak to the Home

Secretary, the Prime Minister, and get this sorted out? As I say, the

Home Secretary will write to the right honourable gentleman on the

details of the case. Can I make a suggestion to the Scottish

Nationalist party? They now have very substantial tax and enterprise

powers and if they want to attract people to the Highlands of Scotland,

why don't they create an entrepreneurial Scotland that people

want to move to from the rest of the UK where they can grow their

business and have a successful life? Let's go back to Westminster

where our correspondent David Porter Let me introduce you. Ian Murray for

Labour, and Alberto Costa for the Conservatives, to name a couple. We

saw and a cat -- attack on the government about the Google tax

issues and how multinational corporations seem to get a good

deal, not only in the UK but perhaps compare to other European countries

as well? It's right that Google pay tax that is owed to the UK and I'm

proud to be part of a Conservative government that has tackled this

head-on. It was a bit rich for Angela A goal -- Eagle for somebody

who used to be somebody who is taking action on this matter what to

do. She fell during the two years she was in the Treasury as a

minister and did nothing to tackle this. Let us be clear, the

Conservative government is rightly going after those companies who are

not paying their full share of tax in the UK and I support that. I want

to raise as much tax fairly and reasonably from companies like

Google to ensure we have tax payers money that can spread across the UK

so that our Scottish viewers will benefit. There is a problem here,

isn't there? If you try to take too much tax these companies will go

elsewhere? I think the issue is that people at home will not be impressed

with the Google sweetheart deal. We were the only party who put forward

an alternative proposal and then alternative tax avoidance bill.

People expect greater transparency and so they should. Of course

company should pay it. We are seeing HM RC offices closing at the same

time so there is a mismatch. The services for people will go down and

meanwhile BCB Google sweetheart -- sweetheart tax deal so these things

don't add up. Labour, when they were in charge, didn't seem to address

this? That's not true. In all the reports, it shows the action

Alistair Darling and Gordon Brown took raised ten times more in this

parliament and measures the Conservatives have taken in the

budget. But the important thing is the principle of people paying a

fair amount of tax. George Osborne said the Google deal was a great

deal but it is ten times less than is happening in France. It's

interesting to be here talk about the HMR see closures because it's a

huge issue. We have 11,000 fewer staff and tax officers will be

unable to do their jobs. We all want people to pay their fair share.

Another small point, you remember when we had a four to six weeks

Parliamentary campaign where... Perhaps we should tackle that so

people can pare the fair share to invest in public services -- pay

their fair share. Ian Murray said the money the Exchequer will get is

probably not much but it is guaranteed. What they are planning

in France is a proposal, isn't it? It may not end up looking quite as

good. And it is retrospective and is in some sense a settlement. Many

small businesses or individuals watching this would like to have the

same relationship with the tax man or woman that Google has with the

government because it seems as if the power of that huge open it --

organisation has been wielded strongly and I think a better deal

for the taxpayer could be done. In Scotland, Amazon.com millions from

the government for the plant in Fife. In my view they don't pay

their fair share of taxes. I called for an international asserted effort

for this on Monday because in Africa, they've lost $1 trillion in

organisations not paying their fair share in their countries. It is

relevant here and also relevant for international... So I am calling for

an international concerted effort we can be a part of and we can learn

from countries who have a better approach. We are standing in front

of the House of Lords and then just improved -- in -- produced a report

on the consequences of devolution. It says that devolution and the

response in the UK has been piecemeal. I am proud to be a member

of the British Parliament that bloated and passed a new Scotland

act that has transferred an enormous amount of powers to the people of

Scotland through their elected representatives. Let us set the

premise for the question that are enormous powers have rightly gone to

Scotland. The Conservative government's position is we are

fully committed to devolution and we should support with Davidson and the

Scottish Unionist party to ensure they can do their bit to tailor

things to the needs of the people of Scotland. I respect the fact the

Lords have their own views but I don't -- accept the result. I think

we might have a rare occurrence where there is agreement between

yourselves and the Conservatives. I think the report is irrelevant. I

can't understand why the unelected friends think it is their job to

tell the people of Scotland, who are the only ones who can decide on the

constitutional future of their country, what their country will be

doing. These things have already been dealt with and agreed by the

Scottish and UK Government. We saw Angus Robertson talking today about

real issues like the family from the Highlands who are being threatened

with deportation. We need families like that and we should really focus

on things like that rather than the irrelevance of an unelected House of

Lords which has nothing to do with the realise of people in our

country. The report also says get rid of the Barnett formula. That is

the part of the report I don't read -- agree with. If it wasn't for the

House of Lords in this parliament we would not have been able to stop tax

credit cuts or to be able to change the government 's mind on a whole

host of issues. I agree that we would rather not have an analytic

chamber but whilst we have they -- them letters use them. The response,

it is right, is piecemeal and that's why we're calling on a look at the

response to devolution. The bit is interesting is the bit that says

which part of Parliament has responsibility over which powers. We

need to make sure who has responsibility for what. It is

interesting that they talk about the deficiencies or the good points

about devolution but neither powers when to use them. I suppose it falls

to you two defenders? I wanted to be a democratically elected chamber. I

have a Bill in Parliament which I would love the Conservatives to

back. When I launched an old chair party group, it so happens that when

they are on telly they slack me off but in private they are willing to

engage. The Constitutional Convention Bill is a cross-party...

It is a cross-party effort to bring consensus.

Thank you very much to you all, you can go away now, not to smoke filled

rooms, but you can sort out the constitution.

Let's get some final thoughts from Kieran Andrews.

Did anything strike you about the discussion we had earlier on with

MSPs? And interesting point was made about

the SNP's time in government so far and the amount of time they've had

to make changes. The interesting thing about Nicola Sturgeon's

approach is that she sought not to say it publicly, but much of this is

brushing aside Alex Salmond's legacy, admitting that education has

stagnated and is causing problems. That was interesting looking at

things through that prison, you know, the SNP, what they are saying

is very ambitious and bold. -- through that prison.

Do you see Nicola Sturgeon having a very different focus than Alex

Salmond did? You just mentioned the focus on education. There are other

things, for example Alex Salmond loved talking about renewable

energy, you don't share much of that from the Scottish Government now.

No, you don't, but that's perhaps not surprising thinking about

fracking and sitting firmly on the fence about what to do with the

endless moratorium. We aren't quite sure what they think will be best

for the economy or danger to the environment. It's perhaps not

surprising that Nicola Sturgeon has been quite quiet on renewable energy

in general. Timetables, I mean, Stewart

Stevenson seemed to should oust that these education targets were by

2020, which reinforces what we were talking about earlier.

That is very ambitious. An equal education system wherever comes out

with the same outcomes in three and half years as a bit bold. But as you

were seeing way back, if they made substantial progress, even if they

got half with a matte, people might be more willing to say, well, OK,

it's been tough but you've done very well.

As long as they do make that progress. As long as they invest in

those areas and the reforms are working. It's all very well to say

yes, but as the opposition parties pointed out, until we see exactly

what John Swinney is putting forward...

To be feared to Nicola Sturgeon she talked about transparency in that

speech. She did say we will make its transparent whether they are meeting

the targets or not. Absolutely, that's a big step

forward. For all the arguments against testing, National

assessments, they are there because people want to know how their

children are getting on, whether the schools and teachers are giving kids

the best opportunity. Thank you very much.

You can stay up-to-date with the latest news on the website. I be

back next week, goodbye. We haven't really wakened up to the

implications of Brexit for Scotland.