25/10/2012 Politics Scotland


25/10/2012

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Good afternoon. Alex Salmond is a big fan of the Rev IM Jolly. He has

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had a very bad week. He has had two ministers resigning over Nato. And

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problems over the European Union. Issues that will come up later. I

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am sure. In a moment, questions to ministers.

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Let's cross live there to the To ask the First Minister what

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engagements he has planned for the rest of the day.

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Yesterday, I had the pleasure of meeting the ambassador from El

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Salvador. Today, either love meetings to take forward the

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Government's programme for Scotland. Added like to ask the Prime

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Minister -- the First Minister where there an independent Scotland

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would be a member of their EU. Could a First Minister please

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explain his position? Order. The commence a Johann Lamont

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it refers to are there words of a were taken out of the Labour Party

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press release. I do not think it is a great argument do attack the

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property of government when you remove the words from your press

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release. Not the most ingenious tactic even from the Labour Party.

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Yes, an independent Scotland will Yesterday, a member of the European

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Parliament asked me to formally investigate weather the ministerial

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code had been broken in relation to their existence of -- their

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existence of content in relation to legal matters. This matter touches

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on an area of the cord which relates to the lot in terms of the

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content and existence of legal advice members of the panel who are

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distinguished Lord Advocate. The advice of the primary Secretary,

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added at that advice, I have invited Sir David belt -- Bell to

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join the panel. The finding of independent advisers will be made

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public and I will accept them and I hope that all members of this

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chamber will do the same. There have been a five and references --

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5 references says I have been First Minister. Each one of them has

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found that I had been in a chord with the cold. -- in accord with

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the code. The First Minister has asserted what Scotland's position

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would be post independence. He tells us that when he gets the

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answer, he will not share it with us are either. The First Minister

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talks about their interviewer at the 27 words. I have the transcript

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here. The First Minister seems to be asking the people, are you going

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to believe me or they evidence of your own eyes? I support you cannot

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expect a straight answer from a minister, a First Minister who has

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as straight as a corkscrew. But let's try again. Why did the First

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Minister... Order. Why did the First Minister say that he had

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sought advice from the law officers when he had not? Why did he give

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that impression it to this chamber at why did he go to court at our

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expense to stop the release of advice he knew did not exist.

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that was the case, the Labour Party would not have found it necessary

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to all met at the 27 words from their stick at. -- it to leave out

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the 27 words. You are bound by the ministerial code in terms of asking

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for specific advice on legal questions from the law officers.

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You are bound in terms of not only reveal the content but revealing

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the existence of that advice. There is a second process and that is

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quite different. Every major document which is published by this

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government is underpinned by officers advise. When it they ask

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for specific advice, the law officers give what is in their

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opinion legal. In underpinning, they will point out what is

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obviously against the law in their opinion. What is being talked about

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is in terms of both the debate and the documents. That is why the

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section of their interview finishes by saying but documents that had

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been published are consistent with the legal advice we have received.

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In terms of the government's defending the ministerial code, I

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have been doing a little bit of research. And I now find that the

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Labour Party were by and by the Freedom of Information Act for two

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years. In that two years, the took five cases to the Court of Session

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to defend the principles of disclosure. This relates and

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compares or the two cases we have taken him five years. I would just

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say to draw a lot Mant -- a Johann Lamont, if you have taken five

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cases in two years to the Court of Session, you have up in no position

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to preach to are the people. -- Your are in no position to preach

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to other people. Get this seriousness of the charges that are

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we made here, the idea that that constitutes any kind of answer is

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completely ludicrous. The people of Scotland need to trust what he says

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add on that performance, they certainly do not. He says we cannot

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say we are even asking for advice. The Deputy First Minister stood

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here on Tuesday and said that she was asking for that advice. The

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First Minister wants an honest debate about what is going to

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happen in the future of Scotland. He asserted that we would be in the

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European Union and joining the euro. But he does not actually know

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because he has not asked. Yesterday, the Spanish Foreign Secretary said

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Scotland would have to apply to be in their European Union and would

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be at the back of the queue. The First Minister says he is wrong,

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but he does not go because he has not asked. -- he does not know. The

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First Minister says we would keep the pint, but he does not know

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because he has not asked. -- the pound. The First Minister will say

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anything to get through the moment. But after this week, nobody trusts

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him. Added have thought that given this

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debate has lasted for some considerable time that Johann

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Lamont would have taken the precaution of Reading of the

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ministerial code. She asked where I could not reveal the existence of

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ministerial advice while a Nicola Sturgeon this week told the chamber

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that they were seeking specific advice on this question. Can high.

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Her to the ministerial code. -- can I point her to the ministerial

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code? The content must not be a revealed to anyone out with the

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Scottish government without the law officers prior consent. When the

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officers consent was obtained by Nicola Sturgeon, she was able to

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reveal that information. I would have thought that was understood in

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terms of this debate. I hope that now that has been cleared up for

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Johann Lamont, I hope that she will accept it. It is quite clear. It is

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prior consent. I did not have prior consent, Nicola Sturgeon did have

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prior consent. Can I direct Johann Lamont to the comments of the

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Spanish foreign minister Quetta mark if in the UK, both parties

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agree, Spain with -- Spain would have nothing to say. This does not

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concern us. In Edinburgh Agreement, the process by which independence

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for Scotland would be secured was agreed. That is the point that the

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Spanish foreign minister was making this year. Under these

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circumstances, we have sought the advice of the law officers and that

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advice will form at the White Paper on independence. That seems to me

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to be substantial progress in this debate. Giving a Johann Lamont the

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information that she claimed she needs. I am asking for the

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information the people of Scotland required to make the decision in

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the future. The First Minister says the difference between him at the

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Deputy First Minister is that she asked permission that she was going

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to tell us that she was going to get advice. Could he not have asked

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permission to tell us that he had not asked for permission to give

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any advice? He might find this hard to believe that I do feel for the

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Prime Minister. All his life he has fought for this. And now he knows

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his argument does not meet the Times. Now he knows it does not

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make sense for Scotland. He makes things up instead. No one wants the

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euro so he pretends we would not have to have even -- we would not

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have to have it even though he does we would. Before now, he has always

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got his way. He is a need for a place in Scottish is the becomes

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before the people of Scotland. I feel for the First Minister. His

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argument is falling apart imprint of his eyes. His own backbenchers

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know it. His deceptions have been found out. No one believes him any

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more. How can this country have an honest debate about our future by

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the cannot trust a word Alex Salmond says? -- when we cannot.

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the climax of that speech by Johann Lamont, she almost directly quoted

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from the Prime Minister. How appropriate! Let me tell Johann

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Lamont something for nothing. I think it is worthwhile for Scotland

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to Government its own affairs, I think it is worthwhile to escape

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from the welfare reform which is impoverishing our country. I think

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it is important for Scotland to take its place as an independent

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member of the European Union. I think Johann Lamont should look at

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the huge number authorities over the Year who have cited that it is

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of fundamental importance a we alight the government that we want,

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not have one foisted upon us by Westminster. It is fundamentally

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important that this country and Scotland says Scotland has a

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fundamentally equal member in the European Union. That is entirely

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the argument which will carry Ruth Davidson. To ask the First

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Minister when he will next meet the Prime Minister. No plans in the

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near future, but I met him last week to sign the Edinburgh

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Agreement. And I believe your advisers told you not to look to

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triumphant, amazing what ten days can do. Four days, presiding

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officer, we have had more ducking and diving. As he avoids the

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conclusion that every fair-minded person has already reached, that he

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has misled the country into believing his case for Scotland's

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place in Europe was based on proper, legal advice. Now, if we believe

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the deputy First Minister, it was all a fantasy, that we would all be

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millionaires by 2014. But perhaps, this politician of the year is more

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like Bill Clinton. I did not have legal relations with that man, Mr

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Mulholland. But the question here... Order! Is that... Is that both Mr

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Salmond and his deputy cannot be right. Either the First Minister

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misled the BBC and nation into believing he had legal advice, then

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spent thousands trying to cover his tracks, or much more seriously, the

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deputy First Minister has misled Parliament by telling us that no

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such advice existed all along, when he did. That is a resignation

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offence. Which one is it? Did he mislead the public or did she

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mislead Parliament? First Minister. I think about 12% of that question

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was the sort of question... LAUGHTER. The sort of question we

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should hear in this chamber. I do none know if Ruth Davidson was

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listening to the fast and so, making a distinction between

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seeking legal advice, -- listening to the first answer. In the latter

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case, the law officers tell you what is wrong, if there is anything

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wrong with your statement, in the first case, giving their opinion.

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It is a clear distinction and I hope Ruth Davidson now understands

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that. In terms of the question Nicola Sturgeon and myself, you

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need prior consent according to the ministerial code, and she had that

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consent and what she told this chamber on Tuesday is a perfectly

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acceptable. I am struck by the fact that the Conservative Party seem to

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think that this position on the ministerial code is something that

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is unique to this Government, in fact carried by at the Westminster

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and Scottish Government from time immemorial, across many countries,

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the same precepts existing in terms of the confidentiality of legal

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advice. I have a letter hear from someone to the Attorney General,

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someone in Scotland, a citizen asking on the 21st November last

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year, asking about whether the hell legal advice on the subject of

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Scottish independence. -- but the legal advice was held. The reply

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was they were unable to confirm or deny whether this department holds

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anything. What is sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander.

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Davidson. All the goose could need is a panic telephone call on a

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television -- on a Tuesday morning. What is the inescapable truth is

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that neither this First Minister nor his deputy can be trusted to

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tell the truth. Maybe it is not Bill Clinton, maybe it is Richard

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Nixon, I am not a crook. Maybe he is not, but the people of Scotland

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simply cannot believe one word he says. Because of him, we cannot

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believe a word his deputy says either. Order! There is one way to

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clear this up, for the Lord Advocate to come to this chamber to

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explain what law officers were asked, what was said and went. Will

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the First Minister now take the appropriate action to ensure that

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Franck Muller Holland appears before Parliament at the earliest

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opportunity? -- that Mr Mulholland appears. I am amused by these

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references to American politics. I would have what you would be most

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familiar with Mitt Romney, the one who dismissed 47% of the American

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population. Ruth Davidson dismisses 88% of the Scottish population. I

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am also struck by the fact there is nothing new under the sun. I have a

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cutting from March 8th, 1992 from the Scotland on Sunday. It appears,

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on that day, the Tory and Labour parties were queuing up to tell

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Scotland that they would not be admitted into the European Union.

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It says, a former European Court judge has cast doubts on John

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Major's assertion that a Scot and became independent it would -- --

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it would have to us for help. Devolution would lead Scotland

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suffering in the same legal board. It Scotland had to reapply, so

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would the rest. They really interesting thing about this is, as

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I recall, that legal advice was sought from Lord Mackenzie Stuart

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by the Conservative Party. So this argument has been going a long time.

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The question on law officers, the great thing about them under the

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Scottish Government is the other independent law officers in terms

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of conducting affairs, and do not like the Attorney General going

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about in terms of political arguments. I think, basically, the

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people of Scotland Prevert law officers to be independent and I

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think we shall keep it that way. -- Prevert law officers to be

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independent. Question number three. What is the response to the latest

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labour market statistics suggesting there has been a quarterly increase

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in unemployment in Scotland compared with a ball across the

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rest of the UK. -- fall. There is a range of measures the Government is

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taking. I know Ken Macintosh agrees with calling on their Chancellor to

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end -- to boost capital spending. That is something Ken Macintosh, as

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I understand, supports when he backed our colles in the economy

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debate to implement projects. I would caution Ken Macintosh in

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terms of statistics across the UK. Unemployment did fall by some

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50,000, but we also know there were 100,000 temporary jobs for the

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Olympics in London. That is a point made by some of his colleagues. I

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hope Ken Macintosh maintains support for the Scottish Government

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in trying to obtain capital investment to get the economy

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moving. I should say it would be a great deal easier if we could just

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implement these changes instead of asking at Tory Chancellor. APPLAUSE.

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Ken Macintosh. Thank you for your reply. And I

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asked if the jobs lost have been in the public sector, such as nurses,

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police support staff and civil servants. Areas of direct or

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indirect responsibility for the First Minister. If you are not able

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to explain why unemployment is higher in Scotland than the rest of

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the UK, can you tell us how many jobs will be lost? Kear Assistance,

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teaching assistants, lost by the 4.3% real-terms cut in their budget.

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-- care assistants. Ken Macintosh should have looked at the

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statistics. The following public sector employment in Scotland as

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much less than that in the UK. That is because we have approached

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things differently in terms of central and local Government. For

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example, we have no compulsory redundancy policy in terms of the

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Government and agencies and across the National Health Service.

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Perhaps Ken Macintosh can turn his mind again to agreeing with this

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Government that we need a different economic policy and need to take

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the economy out of recession by stimulating capital investment. The

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GDP figures released today shows another decline in the construction

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sector across the UK, surely proof positive that because by this

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Government, supported by Ken Macintosh, are on the right lines

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in terms of bringing the economy out of recession. But I have to

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repeat the point that he must understand and accept that the

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economics of Scotland are controlled by the UK chancellor in

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London at the present moment. Wouldn't it be better if we control

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these towering highs of economy and do something about the

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circumstances and help the people? Question number four, Colin Keir.

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What recent process has been made with the Forth Replacement

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Crossing? The project is progressing well, remains on time

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and budget. People who pass can see the extraordinary progress that is

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being made in the new crossing. By the end of the year, parts of the

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Ganges -- cancer that will be commissions. Slip roads are

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scheduled to finish early next year. -- by the end of the year, parts of

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the gangways will be commissioned. This is a large infrastructure

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projects. It can show the shambolic solve the Labour Party's transport

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policy. Are you fully committed to develop -- delivering this artery

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on time and on budget? Up it was an extraordinary interview. We need to

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know, do the Labour Party still support the replacement crossing

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that was voted fought in this chamber? What is being said to the

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1,100 people directly employed in that project or the more than 306

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Scottish companies already benefiting from contracts and sub-

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contracts? You get to the stage that this project is making such

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great progress, so much work done, 1,100 people working on it, under

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Labour Party decide at this moment to withdraw support. Do they want

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us to finish back of it, leaving the rest of the bridge? -- finish

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part of it. I suggest Labour Party changed their mind, and tell the

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people of five in Scotland that the support of Forth Replacement

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Crossing. Billy Murray. Perhaps you might have read the transcript. --

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Elaine Murray. Or maybe the apical excel. No fair-

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minded person would suggest that there was any question of it being

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scrapped. -- or maybe listen to the article itself. Are you not aware

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that many commentators, including the Finance Committee, are

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questioning the cost. Get to the point please. The cost of this, and

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its value to the economy, particularly considering your

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procurement policies. I am grateful for confirming that just

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occasionally you position might be in this report -- your position

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might be misrepresented by journalists. What I find difficult

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to understand the sea Forth Replacement Crossing is on time and

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under budget. How on a Can you withdraw support now when it is

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under budget, costing less than we expected? -- how can you withdraw

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support? Maybe you should clarify the position and we can come to the

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chamber. You are fortunate that you will not have to account for the

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situation. You might just have to explain it to the leader on the

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Front Bench. Question number five, Drew Smith. To ask the First

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Minister what steps the Scottish Government is taking to address

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poverty. The biggest threat to poverty is the United gained -- is

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to UK Government reforms. We have the creation of a new Scottish

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Welfare Fund, with an additional �9 million transferred from the

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Department of Work and Pensions. That will offer an extra 100,000

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vulnerable Scots financial help. I do accept, and I think Drew Smith

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would also accept, that mitigating the whole range of benefit cuts

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coming down the road from the UK Government will not be possible in

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terms of the finances of this Parliament. Surely the solution is

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for this Parliament to have control over such matters, so we can devise

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the policies for the benefit of the Scottish people. Drew Smith.

:30:19.:30:24.

welcome the Scottish Welfare Fund, although a cash-limited fund, so it

:30:24.:30:26.

will run out before the end of the year. Government officials have

:30:26.:30:31.

confirmed that. The First Minister will also be aware of the wider

:30:31.:30:34.

reports released this week indicating that there are thousands

:30:34.:30:38.

of families already facing severe disadvantage in Scotland, including

:30:38.:30:43.

more than 10% of families in Glasgow. Given the progress on

:30:43.:30:47.

reducing shell from -- Child poverty has altered of Scotland,

:30:47.:30:52.

what are the key drivers of change that these families and communities

:30:52.:30:56.

need and tell us what targeted support the Scottish Government is

:30:56.:30:59.

offering to these families and children which might make an impact

:30:59.:31:07.

on that situation? Can I just point Drew Smith to the fact that the

:31:07.:31:12.

changes we are making to the Scottish Welfare Fund will help an

:31:12.:31:18.

additional 100,000 vulnerable Scots. APPLAUSE. That seems to me a lot of

:31:19.:31:24.

people. I accept that we cannot across the range of benefit cuts

:31:24.:31:28.

from Westminster make good the difference. We cannot do it in

:31:28.:31:33.

terms of the finances of a devolved parliament. But in two hugely

:31:33.:31:40.

significant As, council tax benefit, given control but for the 10% cut

:31:40.:31:45.

by agreement with local authorities, working together, making good that

:31:45.:31:52.

for hard-pressed families. At the Scottish Welfare Fund, transferring

:31:52.:31:57.

from work and pensions, making up that 10% cut with 9 million over

:31:57.:32:02.

the period. That seems to be great action by this Government to do our

:32:02.:32:06.

best under difficult circumstances. I make no claim that we can

:32:06.:32:10.

compensate for every reduction in the Budget by the UK Government.

:32:10.:32:14.

But I hope when Drew Smith things about it, and I know he does, that

:32:14.:32:18.

the solution for the people of Scotland is to have control over

:32:18.:32:22.

these budgets, so we can act in the best interests of the people of

:32:22.:32:26.

Scotland all the time, not just mitigating the impact of

:32:26.:32:36.
:32:36.:32:37.

Westminster cuts. APPLAUSE. Smith. To ask the First Minister

:32:37.:32:40.

whether the Scottish Government considers that wind farms do not

:32:40.:32:43.

have a negative impact on the landscape. Wind energy is a part of

:32:43.:32:48.

renewable energies we want to develop. It will help us secured

:32:48.:32:52.

targets and secured an energy mix for Scotland, delivering jobs and

:32:52.:32:56.

investment. It is vital these developments are delivered

:32:56.:33:00.

sustainably, taking place in appropriate locations. We have a

:33:00.:33:03.

planning system that is all open and transparent, enduring

:33:04.:33:07.

developments only go ahead subject to impacts on landscape and other

:33:07.:33:15.

issues. That view, of course, is shared across the Government.

:33:15.:33:21.

Smith. On what evidence have you base this opinion? Given the

:33:21.:33:25.

admission by Visit Scotland that the building of a windfarm in

:33:25.:33:28.

Dumfriesshire could have a negative impact on the landscape and given

:33:28.:33:32.

the substantial growth in the number of local communities

:33:33.:33:36.

opposing windfarm applications which includes at least one

:33:36.:33:46.
:33:46.:33:50.

Scottish Council seeking to have a She would have seen the Chief

:33:50.:33:53.

Executive say that the press comments were in accurate in a

:33:53.:34:00.

letter to the newspapers concerned. Secondly, she should know that the

:34:00.:34:04.

figures demonstrate that not every wind farm application is approved.

:34:04.:34:10.

They are approved if they can conform to planning permission and

:34:10.:34:20.
:34:20.:34:21.

circumstances. I am concerned when I see the Conservative Party

:34:21.:34:30.

appeared to a moratorium on wind development. There are now 18,000

:34:30.:34:40.
:34:40.:34:41.

people using a renewable energy across Scotland. -- concerned in

:34:41.:34:49.

the economics of a renewable energy. What will she say to those people

:34:49.:34:59.
:34:59.:35:00.

if it affects the their jobs? The other difficulty I have got is this

:35:00.:35:04.

consistent view of their Conservative Party. My attention

:35:04.:35:14.

has been drawn to the comments of Adam Bruce who said, wind energy

:35:14.:35:19.

reduces the price at risk and cuts bills even when subsidised, it

:35:19.:35:26.

develops economic growth and jobs. We need to a more wind energy in

:35:26.:35:32.

the UK, a lot less. The Conservative Party should do two

:35:32.:35:37.

things. Clarify what their policy is and then attempt to speak with

:35:37.:35:44.

one verse and not on the people. That is first Minister's questions.

:35:44.:35:52.

There we have it. Not at the easier session for Alex Salmond. He

:35:52.:36:02.

battled on. Ruth Davidson has suggested he was like a character

:36:02.:36:10.

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