26/01/2017: First Minister's Questions Politics Scotland

Hello. A warm welcome to the Scottish Parliament. A very busy day

in politics. The Prime Minister is in Washington. At Westminster, they

are publishing the Bill to trigger Brexit. It was just decided

parliament should have a role rather than the UK Government. The Scottish

Secretary 's meeting Mike Russell. A big concern about child health. All

of that may come up in questions of the First Minister. That is crossed

to the Chamber. General questions just concluding before the main

event. We understand today that the Scottish Secretary has said there

will have to be the consent of the Scottish Parliament ahead of the

great repeal Bill. We will be hearing more about that later on

this afternoon. Earlier on today the Scottish Parliament committees were

discussing Brexit. What engagement is how she planned for the rest of

the day? Engagements to take forward the Government's broken for

Scotland. At the Royal College of Nursing, they said yesterday there

are not enough nurses to meet Scotland's needs. Does the First

Minister agree? There are more nurses working in our NHS than when

the Government took office by a considerable number. As I said, many

times before in this Chamber, we are committed to working not just with

the RCN but with the BMA and other groups to make sure that together we

are investing in the health service as well as investing in it and

continuing to make the reforms that enable our health service to meet

the challenges of the future. In terms of nurses, as she may be

aware, yesterday I visited the university to meet with student

nurses. We were confirming an increase in the number of student

nurses. But also the protection of the bursary. ?3 million of

additional support for student nurses who have children or other

dependents to make it easier for them to pursue a fantastic career of

nursing. I am aware the First Minister visited yesterday and what

is interesting is the Royal College of Nursing spoke after that visit

after the announcement and they were specific in what they said. I will

read it. It is not enough to save there are more nurses, the question

is whether the number meets demand and they say it does not. We should

ask ourselves why we are in that situation. Six years ago as Health

Secretary, the First Minister embarked on two years of

catastrophic cuts the nursing places in Scotland and she was warned by

nursing leaders the cuts were not sustainable and they could impact on

patient care and she was warned from across the Chamber of the

short-sightedness of her approach. Now as predicted, patients are

paying the price as routine operations are cancelled and

treatment waiting times grow, all because of staff shortages. Can I

ask her if she had her time over again, which is still make the cuts

to student nursing places? I well remember that period, significant

challenges at that time with student nurses being unable to get work,

there was a problem of nurse unemployment and we took decisions,

as we were right to do, on the basis of the detail available at the time.

Over the lifetime of this month, there has on average been 1000 new

nurses in training Egypt than was the case in a comparable period

under previous governments. The number of nurses and midwives is up

by 5%, more than 2000 qualified nurses and midwives full-time

equivalents working in the NHS today. That is the commitment of

this government to supporting and investing in the NHS. I have been

clearer in the past and I will continue to be clear about two

things, the need for continued investment, that is why this

government was elected on a commitment to increase investment in

the health service over this Parliament by ?500 million more than

inflation, a stronger commitment than any other party in this

Parliament. Secondly, we have to reform the NHS. That is why we have

integrated health and social care, we are also committed to getting

more money into primary, community and mental health service. Right now

she is arguing for a budget where we would give a massive tax cut to the

top 10% of income earners in Scotland. I would ask her to reflect

on what it would mean for the health budget, if we were to follow the

advice of the Tories in this Chamber. That sounded fro much like

the First Minister was asking for praise for trying to mop up a mess

of her own cuts made. Let us focus on the impact of what has happened.

We were contacted this week by a gentleman who was put on an urgent

referral for treatment last year and was told he would receive surgery

within 12 weeks. He has now been informed Aberdeen Royal Infirmary is

no longer able to book his operation and has stopped referring patients

to the golden jubilee in Clydebank. He has been told he will not get the

operation he needs. This is on the back of reports this week that NHS

Grampian operating theatres are lying empty because hospitals do not

have the staff. I know the First Minister cannot comment on

individual cases but I would like to remind her of the findings last year

that after ten years of this assembly government, it has failed

to do the long-term planning to build up a sustainable workforce in

the NHS should recruit this SNP government. Can the First Minister

explain to people like the man who cannot get an operation at the same

time as operating theatres lying empty the cause of a lack of staff?

I mentioned the increase in qualified nurses and midwives in an

earlier answer. Staffing in total has increased under this government

by Oval 11,500 full-time equivalents -- by over. It is at a record level.

NHS Grampian, for example, is working to increase data staff. The

surgical team at NHS Grampian has just employed seven newly qualified

actor shimmers. That is the sign of the commitment we have two staffing

within our National Health Service. -- newly qualified practitioners.

Unlike other parties in this Chamber, certainly unlike the

Conservative Party, we are committed to further investment in the NHS. I

say again, ?500 million over and above inflation over the life of

this Parliament. I pose again the question I posed in my last answer

to Ruth Davidson. It is an important question. We are in a budget process

right now where we are committed to record investment in the NHS. Ruth

Davidson wants us instead to cut tax for the top 10% of income earners in

Scotland. I think people have a right to expect some consistency

from the Conservatives when it comes to this Chamber. We are choosing

investment in the NHS. Ruth Davidson thinks we should choose tax cuts for

the wealthy. She is entitled to prioritise tax cuts for the

wealthiest, but she cannot come to this Chamber and ask for even more

money for the health service. It is time for Davidson to choose because

I choose investment in the health service. We want to grow the tax

base to fund public services. She is damaging our economy. I simply asked

the First Minister if staffing is all fine, why are theatres lying

empty and patients not getting the operations they need? She asked this

week what kind of country we want to be. I am going to tell her the

answer. I want a country that is run by a Scottish Government that spends

its every waking hour sorting out public services like the NHS and not

obsessing about another referendum. I want a Scottish Government that

actually wants to deal with the child obesity crisis exposed today,

not plotting how Brexit can be used to create more division and

uncertainty in Scotland. That is the country I want back. She says that

we must confront independence but I think it is probably time she

confronted the failings of ten years of this incompetent SNP government

and she tackled them instead. That is a bit rich coming from the party

that created the Brexit disaster that the rest of us are dealing

with. Ruth Davidson at least poses the right question because it is a

question of what kind of country we want to live in. I go back to the

question I posed to her earlier because she cannot have it both

ways. We are in a budget process right now, Ruth Davidson's priority

as she has said in the Chamber before is to cut taxes for higher

rate taxpayers. She wants to cut taxes for the top 10% of income

earners in this country. If we do that, she is entitled to set it as a

priority, but if we do that, the reality will be less money available

to invest in the NHS. Yes, it is a choice, a choice about the kind of

country we want to live in. I choose a country that invests in its health

service, not one that cuts taxes for the richest. That is the difference

between this government and the conservative opposition. I will

continue to take the action we have done over the past ten years to get

more staff into the health service, more investment, waiting times down,

and I will continue to make sure we take that action over the life of

this Parliament and I will leave the Tories, the increasingly right ring

Conservative Party to argue for tax cuts for the richest in our society

-- right wing. To ask the First Minister what engagements she has

planned for the rest of the week. I have engagements to take forward the

Government's programme for Scotland. A new report published today exposes

the horrific gap between the richest and the rest in Scotland. The Royal

College of GPs in child health say that in Scotland a child from a poor

Greg Grandin is more likely to suffer from ill health than a child

from a wealthy area -- a child from a poor background. The child's part

in life is the determined before they leave the womb based on how

much money their parents have. How does the First Minister think

cutting ?327 million from local services will change that? As Kezia

Dugdale knows, that is not the case. The budget we have put forward is

putting more than ?200 million into local services. Let me turn to the

important report that has been published today. It is an important

report and has important messages for the Scottish Government but

indeed for governments right across the UK. It is important to note at

the outset the report's view, I am quoting, there have been notable

improvements in health indicators for children over recent years,

there is much the Scottish Government is doing to reduce the

impact of inequality and there is much in Scotland that can be

celebrated and learn from. That said, I agree with the report that

there is much more required to be done and we cannot be complacent. We

will consider carefully all of the recommendations, many of the

recommendations are already in action. Investment in health

visitors, for example. The child poverty Bill including income -based

poverty measures at its heart. The maternity and neonatal review

published last week, action to reduce smoking harm, action to

tackle obesity and improve physical health. Supporting the Daily Mail in

our schools, for example. -- daily mile. As we get more welfare powers,

we will do things like introduce a new grant for the tourist families

across the country. I would hope that on this most important of

issues we would have support across the Chamber for the measures we are

taking to improve child health and reduce inequality. The macro poorest

families. -- the poorest families across the country. It is not just

the Labour Party that says there are ?327 million of cuts, it is the

Scottish Parliament's bone information centre, the institute,

it is... Does she have an alternative fact for each

organisation? -- own information centre. Last night the Parliament

refused to deduce a majority for the budget. Labour will not stand by

while nationalist ministers who repeatedly professed their love for

this country cut public services by ?327 million, hurting the most

vulnerable people in this country. Presiding Officer, the shameful gap

between the richest and the rest is following young people into

adulthood. New figures published show that since the First Minister

took office, more people are going to university and that is welcome,

but here is the thing, since the First Minister took office, they are

ten times more likely to be from richer backgrounds than from the

poorest communities. Meanwhile, we also learnt this week there are

150,000 fewer people going to our colleges. This is a First Minister

that said closing the attainment gap is her top priority. Isn't it the

case that the gap between the richest and the rest is widening on

her watch? Let me try and take these issues one by one. In terms of the

budget, I heard Kezia Dugdale mention the Fraser of Allander

institute, comments along the line of the headline was that more than

?200 million of extra investment in local services, extra investment in

schools, extra investment in social care, the ability for local councils

to increased council tax to raise revenue, something Labour councils

have argued for, even though they promised the opposite after the

election. The budget prioritises services, fair tax and boosting our

economy. In terms of the other issues Kezia Dugdale raised in what

I thought was a scatter-gun question, in terms of... In terms of

colleges, what we saw this week was the Government meeting its

commitment to maintain 160,000 full-time equivalent places in

colleges. That was the manifesto commitment and that is what we are

doing. Our budget is proposing an increase in the college budget of

?20 million. Another 20 million in capital funding to continue the

modernising of our colleges state. If we look at the numbers going to

university from the poorest backgrounds, we have a record number

getting a place at the Scottish university. It is up 3.2% on the

previous year and it is up 26.5% on 2011th. As I was discussing with our

new fair access commissioner when I met him earlier this week, there is

much more to do, but as we continue to take action we are building on

the solid progress made already by this government. That is the same

fair access Commissioner who said this week that he doesn't have

enough money to do his job. That was in the Times this morning. That can

be summed up in move along now, there's nothing to see here. Today's

report says hundreds of children in Scotland are dying because they are

poor and young people are accessing university because of that property.

And thousands of women, desperate to make a better life for their

families, are being squeezed out of college. Yet the First Minister's

response is the play a game of Russian roulette with the

constitution and impose these cuts on schools and valuable services.

She should stop the grandstanding on Europe and the goings on

independence and Teller space, what really is the SNP's top priority? Is

it closing the gap between the richest and the rest or is it

another device if independence referendum? That was very, very

telling, wasn't it? Interestingly if the Conservatives and Labour who

want to talk about the constitution today, not me or anyone on these

benches. Kezia Dugdale used to say not that long ago that we should

protect our place in Europe. It wasn't that long ago she was

standing where she is today demanding that the Scottish

Government protected our place in Europe. Today that is grandstanding.

Labour yet again roll over and do exactly as they are told by the

Conservative Party. No wonder... No wonder the Scottish Labour Party is

in the pathetic state that it is in today. Not the courage of its

convictions, but let me turn again to the important things that Kezia

Dugdale raised. Child poverty and inequality and getting more children

from poorer backgrounds into university. These problems didn't

stop on the SNP took office will stop these problems developed under

generations of Labour government in this country. What this government

has done is stuck to make progress to tackle these problems, getting

more young people from poorer backgrounds into university,

tackling child poverty. So we will continue to take the action that

Scotland needs and we will leave Labour whining on the sidelines. A

constituency question from Edward Mountain. To ask the First Minister

whether the management of the whip campus project which costs in excess

of 40 million and was due to open in October, but was only handed over to

the Highland Council this month causes concern? In light of the

problems with Edinburgh schools, parents are concerned to hear of

supporting scaffolding being found behind a staircase and hidden behind

a plasterboard wall. Will she join me in asking for an independent

enquiry into this project? This is a Highland Council project. There has

been delays and I know the council has engaged with the local community

regarding the reasons for the delays. I'm happy to look into those

issues, although in the first instance it will be a matter for the

Highland Council, but I will ask the Education Secretary to answer that

specific question to him in writing. What issues will be discussed at the

next meeting of the Cabinet? Matters of importance to the people of

Scotland. Yet again this week this Parliament and this government has

been dominated by independence. It has been like that... They laugh,

they laugh, but it is this government that is obsessed with

independence, not with solving the problems in this country. It has

been like that for almost every day of every week for the years of this

government, but this week we hear about college places cuts, economic

growth being week and unemployment rising. Threats about independence

won't solve those problems. It is the budget for the economy and young

people that will. Cost the budget proposals are urgent. Yesterday her

government failed to command a majority for her budget in this

Parliament. It is not looking good for next week's vote. Does she

recognise that? Firstly, I don't know how Willie Rennie has spent his

week. Mine has been dominated we're talking about nurses, getting

students into university. I did not answer Scotland to be in the

position of facing being taken out of the European Union against

Motherwell. In 2014 Willie Rennie, Ruth Davidson, Kezia Dugdale looked

the Scottish people in the eye and told them that if they vote no, the

place in the European Union would be protected. It was not me, it was not

this government or the people of Scotland who asked to be in this

position. I will apologise to know one for standing up for Scotland's

interests and trying to protect Scotland's interests. And in terms

of the budget we will continue to talk to other parties if they are

willing to talk to us in a constructive manner and it's part of

the tone of his question, I know Willie Rennie has been doing with

the Finance Secretary. We will continue to look for compromise, we

will continue to take appropriate compromises, but we will also be

very clear that as the largest party in this Parliament by a considerable

distance, we have a duty to the people of Scotland to deliver on our

manifesto. With that principle in mind we will continue to talk to

other parties about budget positions over the course of this week. She

started off answering that question by saying that she denied she was

obsessed about independence and then spent almost the rest of the answer

doing exactly that. If the SNP members can calm down

just a little bit, I will try and finish my answer. I am afraid this

First Minister is so focused on her lifelong mission of independence,

she is incapable of seeing the problems on her own doorstep. Look

at the child health report today. The death in prison, the mental

health sickness rates, the list goes on. Each and every one is a human

tragedy. These are the things that need her time, not scheming about

independence. A week to go until the budget, the clock is ticking. Will

she change in time? Will she looked at the proposals from the other

parties seriously rather than the way that she is doing just now, will

independence be first? Can I give Willie Rennie a bit of a tip. If he

does not want me to answer on a particular issue, he should not ask

me about that issue. If he asks me a question, I tend to try to answer

it. If he had wanted to talk about the child poverty report or the

depths: in prisons, he should ask these questions are asked me about

this important issues because these are the important issues that I

spent every single day looking at and considering and committing

Scottish Government action to. In terms of the budget, Willie Rennie

knows that we are carefully and seriously considering his proposals,

as we will with any reasonable proposals that come forward. I must

say we are not getting any reasonable proposals from Labour or

the Conservative Party because they've already decided the position

on this budget, but as long as reasonable proposals come forward we

will consider them and we will seek to continue to build compromise

across this Chamber. We will also take seriously our duty to the

people of Scotland and as the largest party in this Chamber we

will try to deliver on the manifesto we were elected on. And I asked the

First Minister for her reaction on the clause regarding rape. A woman

should not be forced to disclose whether or not she has been raped in

order to receive Social Security. It's yet another example of how the

conservatives come to this Chamber demanding action on these kind of

issues when their colleagues at Westminster are taking action that

is undermining all the attempts to tackle child poverty and improve

equality in this country. Is the First Minister aware that rape

crisis Shetland want to ensure women who have been sexually assaulted

don't need to travel to Aberdeen for forensic examination. Will she

accept the prospect of travel by plane or overnight ferry is a

barrier to rape survivors contacting the police and will she ensure that

medical equipment and medical staff are provided so that the teams of

sexual assault can be examined quickly and sensitively in Lerwick.

We are reviewing the way that forensic examinations are undertaken

for victims of rape to ensure they are carried out sensitively. I

understand absolutely that there are particular issues and particular

challenges when we are dealing with our island communities, but someone

who has been the victim of rape in the island communities has the same

right in terms of the access to justice as anyone anywhere else. I

will be happy to asked the Justice Secretary to discuss the issues as

they relate to Shetland in more detail. The First Minister will be

aware that her Cabinet Secretary for finances due to visit Aberdeen

tomorrow to meet with members of the Chamber of commerce. At that meeting

Mr Mackay will be handed a letter signed by every member of Aberdeen

city centre safety group Unite with some venues facing 300% increase in

the rates. Some businesses have already been forced into

administration and rate rises means more will disappear. Come the First

Minister give a commitment that her Cabinet Secretary will do more than

pay lip service to affected businesses and will instead take

expedient and immediate action to seek a solution to mitigate a

potentially devastating impact. The Finance Secretary will have these

meeting, but the member presumably heard the exchanges at First

Minister's Questions last week. This is an independently -- revaluation

process. The Scottish Government cannot intervene and all businesses

if they think the valuation for the property is wrong have until

September of this year to issue an appeal with the Scottish Government

does have the power to act. We have taken action to lift 100,000 small

business premises out of business rates altogether and we will

continue to make sure we have a business rates regime, including

lowering the poundage rates, that supports economic growth in this

country. To ask the First Minister what the Scottish Government

position is on the UK Government's new strategy on industry. It's

underpinned by our manufacturing strategy and a willingness to

intervene in key sectors to save steel plants and other industries.

The UK has lacked a strategic approach for many years and

therefore be publication of the industrial strategy this week is

welcome. That said there was lack of engagement from the UK Government

with the Scottish Government over the consultation paper which covers

many devolved policy areas. We have written to the secretary of state

for business, energy and industrial strategy and we will work with the

UK Government on this for the benefit of the Scottish economy and

the wider UK economy. Does she agree it is vital any

industrial strategy aiming to reduce regional strategy must be compatible

with economic development projects? Can she advised the Chamber whether

an industrial strategy which the Prime Minister claims will reach

every corner of the UK despite their record on regional development is

more likely to succeed in attracting investment while increasing

innovation, research and development and employment and productivity with

Scotland in or out of the single market? I agree about the growth

deal, any industrial strategy has to be built on recognising and

supporting regional economic strengths. As I said in my initial

answer, we have been disappointed by the limited consultation so far. The

first time the Secretary of State for Business got in touch was on

Monday morning, hours before the document was published. Keith Brown

has written to request stronger in gauge went which is in the interest

of the Scottish and UK Governments. On the final point, there is a

danger the UK Government's proposed hard Brexit would jeopardise the

Scottish economy, businesses and jobs they provide and that is why we

continue to call on the UK Government to deliver membership of

the single market with its market of 500 million people, ideally for the

UK as a whole, but certainly for Scotland. What is the Scottish

Government's response to the recent claim that three quarters of the

country's neonatal units do not have enough nurses? I welcome the

publication of the report and I would want to take this opportunity

to commend Bliss on the work they do supporting parents with babies in

neonatal care. They played a vital part in our own review and

recommendations published last week. Boards must ensure the neonatal

units are appropriately and stay -- safely staffed. To ensure babies

receive safe levels of care. The networks have put processes in place

to manage and escalate concerns if any units are under pressure at any

time. I thank the First Minister for that answer but can I quote to her

direct you what the chief executive of Bliss Scotland has said about the

reality facing the service? She said, neonatal units are

understaffed and under resourced now and this is putting babies across

Scotland at risk. The report also states that just two of the units

have plans to recruit the necessary nurses to meet the bad binman

standards for adequate neonatal service provision. After ten years,

will she apologise to parents across Scotland who see this workforce

crisis in the NHS? -- to meet the bare minimum standards. They were

fully involved in the review and the member quoted the chief executive of

Bliss and I will quote her as well in terms of what you said about the

review, it sets out an ambitious and progressive vision for Sam Murray

centred care which is good news for the future of the services -- for

family centred care. Bliss are involved in making sure we take the

action that ensures high-quality neonatal care is therefore babies

when they need it and we will press on with exactly that action. Thank

you. Can I thank Bliss Scotland for a powerful report? The Scottish

covenant published the review last week of maternity and neonatal

services, there is a lot in the report that deserves consideration.

Can I urge the First Minister to bring it forward in a statement to

the Parliament? A key recommendation was round local services and I

quote, a number of choices should be available to all women in Scotland,

including birth at home, but in and alongside midwifery units, hospital

birth. It goes against the proposals to close the maternity units at

hospitals, will the First Minister finally accept the will of this

Parliament and call for proposals in and reject them? The proposals

talked about in terms of Glasgow are not firm proposals. We cannot call

in something that has not been made in a firm proposal and the reason

for that is we made very clear that we expected health boards to have

regard to the maternity and neonatal review recommendations before they

took decisions of that nature and that is what they are going to do.

Looking at the recommendations and assessing any decisions they may

what to take in light of the recommendations -- they may want. We

have had the opportunity to consider the recommendations. There is an

awful lot of detail in the report. The Health Secretary will come to

Parliament and set out the Government's thinking in how we take

it forward but we are determined to act on the review, the key

recommendation in it is that every woman has continuity of care from a

primary midwife who provides the majority of their antenatal cover

childbirth and postnatal care as part of a new model of care. That

presumably is why the chief executive of Bliss described it as

an ambitious and progressive vision, and one we would be proud to

deliver. To ask the First Minister what the impact would be on

redevelopment plans for universities following its decision to ask the

Scottish funding council to pay back ?50 million. There was no impact on

our commitments to colleges and universities. The underspend was

primarily because of the difference between academic and financial years

and it was only recouped on the basis of explicit assurances from

the council that all financial commitments had been met. I thank

her for that answer. Education committee last month, John Swinney

said all of the financial commitments universities and

colleges had been met in full, but this week, we have learned objects

to develop a campus of the University of Westminster and and a

campus of the Scottish rural University College, they were thrown

into jeopardy as a result of this claw-back. Why did her deputy failed

to mention these two projects shelved as a result of the decision?

At a time when universities are describing the funding package as

unsustainable, why did the Scottish Government take this money out of

the university system? I read explained the reason for the

underspend and I do not think the characterisation of the member in

the capital projects, I do not think it is correct. -- I ready explain.

If we take the Hamilton College, that project is taking its course

and I hope to see it progress. I repeat what I said earlier which is

what the Education Secretary said to Parliament in committee, no changes

to the planned allocation of funding to universities or colleges, no

institution has lost out and I hope that reassurance is welcome to the

Chamber. Thank you. The First Minister has just been made aware of

the shameful attempts of Labour to link the campus in Hamilton to this

issue. While I am saddened at the campus will no longer continue in

the town centre, does the First Minister agree that the solution

arrived at to build a brand-new state of the art hampers at Hamilton

which will accommodate more students and the potential to bring

substantial economic and social benefits? Can she advised that while

the support and advice provided by Scottish funding council throughout

the process has been most welcome, should capital funding be required

to complete the project, she might consider that favourably? She has

just underlined the point I made, this issue in terms of the Hamilton

College campus, it is with the council still yew College and the

funding council. I am pleased they will be developing the campus

because it brings the potential benefits she highlights,

particularly for young people in her constituency. It has been fully

involved to date and I would expect the support to continue, as the

project develops, to ensure this project is realised. Thank you. The

financial report to the Scottish funding council board dated the 20th

of February, 2014, confirms the Scottish covenant had advised the

Scottish funding council not to apply any of the 50 million funds --

the Scottish Government. Until the 2nd of October, 2014, when the

Scottish Government issued further confirmation it wanted the money

back, funding council was discussing how to spend the money. Who is

responsible for the gross mismanagement? The Scottish funding

council knew throughout that this was money that would be returned to

the Scottish Government. As I said in my previous answer, the decision

to do that did not affect the planned allocation of funding to

universities or colleges. This government will continue to make

sure we give fair funding settlements to universities and

colleges. I said in an earlier answer, the budget currently before

Parliament proposes an increase in investment in our colleges of ?20

million in resource funding and ?20 million in capital funding.

Throughout the lifetime of this covenant, we have invested half ?1

billion in modernising our college is state -- government. We have

brand-new campuses in Glasgow, one in my constituency. I opened the new

airship campus just a matter of weeks ago -- Ayrshire. The evidence

of the investment speaks for itself. To ask the First Minister what the

Scottish Government's position is on reports of NHS boards spending over

?1500 on a single agency nurse shift. We are clear with boards they

must make every effort to drive agency spending down but we

recognise there may be times because of peaks in demand of staff illness

for example in highly specialised areas that agency staff are used to

ensure safe care of patients. Agency usage remains very low, 0.4% of

nursing and midwifery capacity in 2015-16. We are working with NHS

national services Scotland on a nationally coordinated programme for

temporary staffing. I think my constituents will have been shocked

by that figure and also by the fact some ?4.8 million was spent in the

last year on agency nurses and midwives in Lothian alone and that

is four times the amount spent three years ago. It is an increasing and

humongous amount of money spent on supposedly temporary measures which

cannot be spent using the First Minister's words on investing in the

NHS. The First Minister, as a former Health Minister responsible for

cutting student nurse places, she surely has the humility to accept

some personal responsibility for that? As I said, spending on agency

staffing is very low in the NHS and agency usage amounts to less than

half of 1% of nursing and midwifery capacity in 2015-16. As I said

earlier, we have increased the number of qualified nurses and

midwives. But we want to see reliance on agency staffing reduced

even further which is why we are committed to investing even further

in staffing. I take personal response will for everything in my

responsibility. I have not heard the member asked the Prime Minister or

Health Secretary South of the border to take responsibility for the

report in July when NHS trusts paid over ?2000 for a single agency

shift. We will continue to take the action to make sure our NHS is

properly staffed, delivering the excellent care they do to patients

across the country. The close of questions of the first

list, closing as they began with discussions about the health service

-- First Minister. Alternative fact, it has come across the Atlantic it

is being used even by the Trump team and the Prime Minister is going to

see the US president in the next day or so. She is in Washington now for

talks with the Republican party. I'm joined by two colleagues, Lindsay

McIntosh and Robbie Dinwoodie. Alternative fact is, let us go to

Kezia Dugdale, she raised that subject, she is saying huge cuts in

local government, Nicola Sturgeon saying huge increases in local

services. The great irony. The figures come from the same analysis.

Fraser of Allander looked at it and think you can see it as cuts to

local services, but if you look at it another way, because of the money

going into merging the NHS and the care budgets, you could say... And

money from schools. It is a fact that the figures can be interpreted

in different ways, hence you get the claim alternative facts. A bit

baffling for the listeners. To be fair, the two ways to interpret it,

unlike the original etymology of alternative facts which was the two

pictures of the capital. That is just black and white. There is a bit

of wiggle room. Kezia Dugdale getting very exercised

in the attack. She was and I think Nicola Sturgeon struggled more

against Kvyat Dugdale than she did against Ruth Davidson. It felt that

when Kezia attacks Nicola from the left, she gets more uncomfortable

than when she can slap down the evil Tories on the right. She describes

Kezia Dugdale's approach is being scatter-gun. What do you make of the

approach she was making? She was trying to build upon a series of

points. What she was trying to do was tied the problems that we are

seeing in the health service at the moment directly back to Nicola

Sturgeon when she was Health Secretary Fred Gray number of years

under Alex Salmond's administration. What Ruth did was bring up a Times

story about what is really difficult situation in NHS Grampian about

theatre is going despite patients needing operations because there

aren't enough staff to fill them. And, Robbie, Ruth Davidson pursuing

a tactic that has become almost standard week after week. I don't

expect you to comment on an individual case, but here is an

individual case. The point is there is never a tactic that has become

almost standard week after week. I don't expect you to comment on an

individual case, but here is an individual case. The point is there

is another way to completely satisfy or demand in the NHS. This easy to

attack the previous administration, but the SNP, we are getting the same

mantra. Ten years is a long time in power. It is on your watch now. It

is not an easy thing to say, but the great comeback as Lynsey rightly

says that Nicola has got against Ruth Davidson is alimony, you want a

10% tax for the wealthiest in this country. You will make things worse.

Let's talk about that. It was a contrary distinction. Ruth Davidson

arguing for expenditure in the health service and Nicola Sturgeon

fighting back with the tax point, a reflection of the fact that this

government now has tax powers as well as spending powers. The point

is that she says big your side. Do we spend money on the NHS or giving

tax cuts to the rich. You have to call that one, Ruth. I thought it

was a good stance. On the budget generally. It was the background to

it because Nicola Sturgeon was saying you are in favour of this in

the middle of these budget negotiations. What I think was quite

clear is that they have given up on getting any deals with Labour. They

are entrenched, but they do see an opportunity to reach out to the

Liberal Democrats and the Green Party to get them onside. Willie

Rennie was contributing today. The expectation is that he might be the

most likeliest deal maker. Nicola Sturgeon was at pains to say he was

seriously negotiating. He said it is not looking good at the moment. I

think the Green Party is the more likely deal maker because of this

independence issue that permeates everything at the Scottish

Parliament. Because they might need them for an independence bill?

That's right. They don't want to knock down an SNP government because

is the best chance of getting a referendum. Nicola's answer was

interesting because she kept stressing that they don't have the

largest majority, but they are the biggest party. There were requests

for details on spending, but the Green Party want to know about the

movement contacts. There may be some reluctance to do that. It is

interesting to look at which tax powers the Green Party are looking

for. I can't see Derek Mackay making any movement on income tax, but

could there be anything with the other taxes? Property taxes and

things like that? Or maybe just the upper right bands? They made such a

big deal about this being a balanced package during the election. You

also have to remember that the penny for Scotland will be a shadow that

always hangs over him. They wanted to reverse the penny cut proposed by

Gordon Brown? Yes, and they were burned and it will take a lot

together again. He will be having a wee word with his successor. What

was interesting and it is a running theme is that it is really Nicola

that raises the question of independence. That is a good one.

She is attacked for it all the time. Willie Rennie accused her of

obsessing about it. And then asked about ten questions on it! He spoke

about the Scottish Government and Scottish Parliament being

overshadowed by this independence issue. He is not of the Scottish

parliament and he is the one raising it there. Ruth Davidson got into

opposition by making it her campaign about saving the union. To be fair,

she was saying I don't know what you have been talking about this week,

but I've been talking about nursing and education, but she hasn't

forgotten independence, has she? No, particularly in the context of

Brexit. We hear incremental language from her. She turned to Kezia

Dugdale and said that Labour are rolling over on all opposition to

Scotland been yanked out of the European market. The Labour leader

will be -- the Labour leader was unhappy at that point. We have some

breaking news on Brexit. David Mandel the Scottish Secretary has

been commenting following talks he had this morning with Mike Russell.

There is Mike Russell in the background having a chat there.

Anyway, the pair of them were having a talk and David Mandel suggested

whether Holyrood should have a say on the Brexit bill, the bill being

published today by the UK Government. He says there is no role

for Holyrood on that, but there could be a role on the great repeal

bill, the bill down the road that would disentangle the UK, including

Scotland's involvement with the European Union. While we have been

on-air Mr Mondale has been speaking to my colleague Kirsten Campbell.

The Scottish Parliament house to determine for itself its processes

in terms of legislative concern. I don't believe that a so-called

legislative concern motion is required for the notification bill.

That's because that bill is just about notifying the EU that we

intend to negotiate an exit and that is clearly a reserved matter. Legend

Steve consents required when Westminster is legislating on

devolved issues that are within the responsibility of the Scottish

Parliament. -- legislative consents. When it comes to the great repeal

Bill, will that be different? I assume it is a bill that will cover

significant areas that impact on the powers of the Scottish parliament

and the responsibilities of Scottish ministers. Therefore I would

anticipate it will be a bill that requires legislative consent because

there will be changes to the powers of this Parliament and the

responsibilities of Scottish ministers and we will be looking to

go through that motion process in the Parliament when that bill comes

forward. What happens if the Scottish parliament withholds its

consent? What I have said is that negotiation of our fiscal framework

we were told we would not get that consent. I want to be able to

persuade Parliament this bill is the right one. It will be delivering for

this Parliament additional powers and it will be ensuring that

ministers have responsibilities once we leave the EU for matters that are

currently dealt with in Brussels. It will also incorporate the body of

existing law into our Scots law system. It's something Parliament

will want to embrace and I will be spending my time persuading them to

do that. Persuasion, persuasion. David Mondale speaking to my

colleague Kirsten Campbell. He is talking about a legislative content

motion, not on the bill being published today, the build-up begins

the process of taking United Kingdom out of the EU, he's talking about

the wider bill, the great repeal bill back on pixel the relationships

between Scotland, the UK and the European Union. Much of the

legislation involved in European discussions is legislation that

perhaps potentially would reside here at Holyrood rather than at the

UK level. I'm still joined by my two colleagues. What do you make of it.

Robbie first. The fact there is no LCM on today's bill, it means that

once it goes through, it is sold. That's a key point. When the great

repeal Bill comes forward this Parliament will be in Abeid because

it won't be able to rock anything by withholding an RCM. This is about

repatriating laws from Europe to Westminster. The repeal Bill will

stay we need to put in new mechanisms and that will be either

the UK or in terms of devolved matters, the Scottish parliament.

Where does that put Scottish ministers? Do they want to withhold

legislative consents? The key thing here is that it is not the principle

that Scotland gets a say on, once the decision has been taken and the

clock is ticking on Article 50, it will be too late? That is a good

point. The gun is to be head of the ministers here because if they don't

sign of the great repeal bill or if it doesn't go through, we will have

great laws in -- we will have great holes in our laws. I was surprised

that David Mondale went as far as he did. He spoke to the print press

earlier and I think he was even stronger in his interview that yes,

there will be an LCM. To commit was quite interesting. He is making it

as an offer, but the LCM legislative consent is just that. The UK will

carry on regardless. The Power does reside there? Yes, and he was asked

about the implications if the LCM was not passed and he said it would

be significant. Maybe what he means is that maybe not legally

significant because as you say it will still be pushed ahead with that

bill, but it will be politically significant because we will be in

yet another constitutional crisis. The LCM is provided for in the

Scotland act. He wanted to appear as if he is making an offer, but they

have no real choice but to bring radical changes to Scots law... If

by then the European thing looks like going through. It sounds good

concession, but identikit tes. By the time this becomes an issue

article issue -- becomes an issue, Article 50 would have been

triggered. Our option is beginning to vanish? They are, especially of

the Theresa May's unit speech when she ruled out membership of the

single market. I think people were surprised that Theresa May was that

categoric, both in Scotland and the rest of the UK. It pushed Nicola

Sturgeon perhaps in a direction that she did want to go to which was to

put an independence referendum front and centre of this debate again.

Thank you both very much indeed. A good programme there. Great to get

Mr Mondale's rence. From me Brian Taylor, goodbye.

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