29/09/2011 Politics Scotland

A very warm welcome to Holyrood where the MSPs are discussing

serious matters, but having a giggle about the BBC Scotland

interview in which Ed Miliband could not name all three contenders

for the Scottish leader of the Labour Party. He got two right, but

not Ken McIntosh. Poor Ken, perhaps poor Ed.

Now let's cross to the chamber. We are heading towards the main

event of the week here at high school road.

-- at holly road. They are discussing public

procurement. Iain Gray? To ask the First

Minister what engagements he has planned for the rest of the day

are carrying forward the Government's programme for Scotland.

How disappointingly mundane. On Tuesday, the First Minister told

the conference that he was leading the greatest step forward for

civilisation since the hunter gatherer's put down roots 10,000

years ago. I thought that this afternoon he

might be ushering in an epoch of world peace or perhaps personally

parting the North Sea for the interconnector to norbway. Or maybe,

maybe he could just try keeping his promise to protect the NHS budget

in real terms. Why is he cutting Scotland's NHS by

�300 million? The NHS budget, the revenue budget, the NHS has been

protected in real terms by this government. That is unlike, of

course, what would have happened if the great misfortune, which would

almost be approximate to parting the North Sea if the Labour Party

had come into office. Because I know that Iain Gray spent a lot of

time this week looking at the election campaign, I don't want to

add to his agony, but does he not remember telling Newsnight Scotland

a year ago, "We would not ring- fence the health budget" And we

know that Labour did not mean to pass on the consequentials as the

Labour Party and the government in Wales have not passed on the

consequentials to the health service. So what we can be certain

of, if the great North Sea misfortune had fallen the people of

Scotland and Iain Gray had led the party into government, there would

be less money spent in the National Health Service than there will be

in this Spending Review. You see what he did there, I asked

him a question about the NHS budgets and he gave me an answer

about Labour's manifesto... The Welsh Labour Party... And NHS board

budgets, but that was not the promise he made. His promise says:

An SNP Government will protect the health budget. They have not done

that. Since he was re-elected in May, there are fewer doctors,

midwives and nurses. He has gotten rid of 1700 nirss since 2009. Does

he still have the brass neck to say he is protecting our NHS? Well...

All of the commitments we made to the National Health Service are

being met. We protect the budget. Page 64, table 702 of the Spending

Review shows how the NHS budget is being protected. We pledge to pass

on the consequentials, that is something that Iain Gray would not

commit to during the election campaign. We have done that, you

will find it on page 58 of the Scottish Spending Review.

We ensure shorter waiting times and treatment continues to improve,

that means extra investment of �1 billion over four years, that is in

table 803 of the Spending Review. On each and every commitment we

have given to the National Health Service, this SNP government has

meted -- met it and indeed, more than met it. Iain Gray should

remember, I know it is a long, long time ago, that when he was the

deputy Health Minister of Scotland, in a time when there was not a Tory

government imposing massive cuts from Westminster, guess what? Nurse

numbers in Scotland fell during his period in office and there were

5,000 less nurses than the NHS than there are today under this

government! Yes, table 106 from the financial scrutiny unit briefing,

total health spend, changeover four years, minus �319 million. That's a

cut. That's a cut. If he cares to examine nurse and midwife numbers,

we will find that there are fewer nurses and mid wives in our NHS now

than there were in 2007 when he Firth became First Minister, but

don't take my word for it, let's ask the people that really know,

the RCN say that the nursing workforce is at breaking point. GPs

tell us that panic measures to compensate for the NHS cuts will

compromise the NHS. So who should we trust on the NHS? The First

Minister who made the choices in his budget? Or the doctors, nurses

and patients, who have no choice but to live with the consequences?

Who is telling the truth? Alex Salmond? Or the doctors and the

nurses? Well, people had the opportunity in May to judge between

Alex Salmond and Iain Gray and resoundingly they decided on the

Scottish National Party administration. Now, I named the

key tables in the spending plans, Iain Gray chose not to reference

them. He tpwhrieded to the health budget and capital spending.

Presumably oblivious to the fact that the Conservative Party are

cutting capital spending in Scotland by 36% over a four year

period. Now I know that is the dreadful Conservative Party, they

adopted the same plans that were left to them by the Labour

administration. So what do we do to counter this?

Did we say as Iain Gray did last year, we won't even pass on the

consequentials? No, this government, this finances situation, issued a

non-distribution programme to add another �750 million to expenditure

on the National Health Service over the next few years.

I have quoted the tables. I've cited Iain Gray's deplorable record,

explained how we are getting another �750 million investment in

the National Health Service, perhaps Iain Gray will have the

grace to acknowledge, that if he comes along to ask questions on the

NHS, neither on his record or his performance, nor understanding his

statistics he is on safe ground. It doesn't matter where the First

Minister goes in the budget, it unravels. He promised last week,

yes, that they would be investing in capital infrastructure. Until

CPPR looked at the figures... And we discover, then we discover that

they are cutting, that they are cutting capital investment even

faster than George Osborne and the Tories are! He promised to protect

businesses, but then we discovered that he is taking an extra �850

million off them. And last Thursday, last Thursday he

promised to protect universities. On Friday, on Friday, he gave

Abertay five weeks to emerge into Dundee University. To par phrase,

isn't the truth just an inconvenience for this First

Minister? I was wondering why Iain Gray asked of closures, I said

there would not be clors of colleges and universities, then as

Mike Russell deployed in the education debate, we find out that

one of Ed Miliband's advisors is advocating the closure of half of

England's universities. Then the capital figures produced on the

capital department expund tire limits as cited by the CPPR, last

time when we had treble counting was when Gordon Brown was the

Chancellor of the Exchequer in 1997 to 1999, that was the same period

when John McLaren was Labour Party special advisor, it seems that the

old habits die hard, but the capital part is only part of the

capital spending story it is because of the 40% near cut

introdoused by the Tories, planned by the Labour Party that John

Swinney has engaged in the non- profit distribution programme and

trance ffred it from the capital budget. That is why it is

increasing, the only place it is increasing across the United

Kingdom as a whole. Now I heard that same mistake repeated by Ed

Miliband in the radio this morning. I can only imagine he got his

information from Iain Gray. Mind you as that interview ended on, as

the BBC News site tells us that Ed Miliband was unable to name all of

the Scottish Labour leader candidates. He got two out of three,

which is two more than the rest of the population.

Iwaned -- wanted to ask the First Minister when he is to next meet

the Prime Minister? The meeting of the Prime Minister is not planned

in the near future, but no doubt we will get round to it. The First

Minister knows that I share his serious concerns about sectarian

behaviour in Scotland and indeed I have raised the issue twice at

First Minister's Questions and I do not doubt his commitment to

tackling it, but he will be aware of growing concern about his

proposed ledge shraigs. We know the consultation period has high

lighted evidence that existing law, if more robust force is advocate --

adequate and that new law may be required. That there is pressing

evidence that the existing laws be used to good effect. So, what if

the first is not covered by the existing law.

I'm sure that Annabel Goldie studied by the Lord Advocate

studying the legislation in full detail, I do think that all members

of the chambers should look at that evidence from the Lord Advocate. He

went through a number of cases where we would consider most

reasonable people would consider that racist offences have not been

covered by the Breach of the Peace legislation. Some courts have

decided that breach of the peace has to be seen in the context. You

can make remarks that are unacceptable, but in the context of

the effect of that situation, the breach of the peace legislation

does not cover it. The Lord Advocate explained why that is a

deficiency in the range of the current legislation. I hope that

Annabel Goldie looks at that, if we see gaps in the current legislation,

given Annabel Goldie's call for action earlier in the year it is

our duty to ensure that our police, our prosecution service, our Crown

Office are equipped with the range of legislative instruments that

they believe that they require in order to face down and tackle evils

in society. I think that sectarianism and sectarian displace

are unacceptable in Scottish society. Across Scottish society.

They should not be allowed to attach themselves to our beautiful

game of football. I thank you for your response. He

and I know we are all united in condemning sectarian behaviour

where it occurs, but that is why we must not do aservice to the public

by making bad law for the sake of making law. Will the Firth confirm

to me that he will keep answer open mind on legislation and be swayed

by the evidence presented to this Parliament -- will the First

Minister confirm that he will keen answer open mind, rather than

displace laws to recreate new laws just because he can.

Annabel Goldie I commend you to read the explanation that the Lord

Advocate gave. It is a detailed explanation, I have to say when I

read it I thought that it made the case for the legislative change

beyond any event whatsoever. I am not certain if you have had the

opportunity to study that in detail, but I commend it to her and indeed

to the rest of the chamber. It was an excellent showing of why there

are gaps in the legislation. Why over a period of time, the

interation of the breaching of peace has changed. I am sure that

when Annabel Goldie reads that, that if we have to act desisively

that we have to ensure that we give our law enforcers and the people

charged that, the police and others, the tools that they require to do

the job that we expect them to do. Can I say something else that is

important. We must be able to as a chamber and Parliament to be able

to get into a state of thinking where we recognise that there are

some things that we have to tackle jointly as a society.

Early in the year Annabel Goldie and others said that they wished to

have more time to consider the legislation. I agreed to that, the

reason I agreed was not because I did not think I was getting a

majority, because I wanted to take the entire chamber, I do think we

should take the entire chamber, that is the responsibility of

governments as well as of opposition. We have to rise above

the quick and easy point to make and recognise the statements made

by the Lord Advocate. Unless we face down what has happened in our

football grounds and around our football grounds and have the

courage and the inteing rate to -- integrity to tackle it as a

Parliament, we will not have a football game left. There are

European authorities who find what we see as unacceptable, they take

action. Surely as a pairplt, -- Parliament, we have to face down

sectarianism and give the police and those responsible for law and

order in Scotland the instruments that they have asked for, so that

they can do the job that we expect them to do.

The First Minister will appreciate the public concern about

yesterday's Appeal Court conviction for a heinous crime committed in my

constituency. What assurance can you provide for my constituents and

those across Scotland where Robert Foy is viewed as a danger to the

public, that he will spend the entire of his ensense behind bars.

Firstly the Justice Secretary will be bringing forward the required

changes in the framework of the law. Considered changes that Lord

Hamilton called for at the time of the judgment last March to enable

what seems to be a complex but loophole in the law to be closed.

Secondly in terms of how the punishment and other parts of

sentences that are opposed that no- one released in any case in

Scotland over the last few year unless and until there is a

judgment that they are not a danger to the public. So I think that we

recognise and have recognised the gap in the law. We are grateful for

the support, Victim Support Scotland in terms of the actions

that the Justice Secretary is as a Parliament will have the

opportunity to consider the changes in the law necessary to fully

protect Scottish society. Can I ask the First Minister what

issues are to be discussed at the next meeting of the Cabinet.

Matters of importance to the people of Scotland. This morning I met the

Labour's recruit to the Liberal Democrats, who after a brief

flirtation with the SNP has returned to the liberal fold. That

is good news, but... What is less good news is that there are an

estimated 830,000 victims of crime in Scotland every year.

What is the Scottish Government to do to support victims? Well, let's

start with the real issue first. The question of victims of crime.

I'm sure that Willie Rennie will acknowledge at that crime in

Scotland is now at a 33-year low. I believe that is the result of the

many of the policies put forward by this government, in particular the

policy of putting 1,000 extra police officers on the streets and

communities of Scotland. That is a policy which was widely supported

across this chamber, although I have to say that the nds were not

among the advocates for that policy. -- that the Liberal Democrats were

not among that advocates for that policy. So crime has been driven to

a 33-year low. As far as councillor Dylan is concerned let me quote him,

"Members and supporters of the Lib Dems do not understand why the

party leadership in Scotland are cheerleaders to Tory policies and

Tory beliefs, they sound more Tory than the Tories and enough is

enough" First Minister, First Minister, he is back with us! He is

back with us. The Irish issue here, though -- the issue here, though,

is that he has relegated his rights bill. Will the First Minister

change his mind and bring forward the Victims's Bill this year. Will

we start to use some of the proceeds from prisoners earnings to

help victims? Steps are being taken elsewhere in the UK to help to make

that happen. Would that the not be a move to assure victims of crime

that their interests are being taken seriously? Well, Victim

Support Scotland has they indicated are working close with the

government in a range of issues. If Willie Rennie has proposals that

mentioned they will be considered. That indeed is a serious issue.

But Willie Rennie, and I think he will regard it as a mistake, chose

to develop that serious issue with this incredible indorsment from

councillor Dylan of the Liberal Democrats. All I can say is that

Willie Rennie now thinks that councillor Dylan, given the quotes

he made, is one of his foremost supporters, so I can only think

there need to be another candidate fort Liberal Democrat leadership of

Scotland. To ask what discusses --

discussions the government has had with the crown state regarding the

minerals mined from Scotland? Whether is it a mineral wealth, the

value of a shore line or the opportunities offered by renewables,

Scotland's communities need control of the assets. We have long argued

for the control of the states. The Scotland bill provides an excellent

opportunity to do this. I hope given the Parliament, that we

support that by a large majority and the Secretary of State may

choose to consider that perhaps things that are endorsed so

resoufpbdingly by the communities of Scotland in an -- resoundingly

by the community of Scotland in an election is something that should

be included in the current Scotland bill. Thank you for your response.

The time is right for the adayic legislation governing the current

state to be brought into line with the realities of devolution in

modern Scotland. Accountable to Scottish Parliament and its people

in delivering direct benefits to its communities. Will you continue

it make the case to the UK government that the current state

be devolved to Parliament as soon as possible? I met with the

Chancellor of the Exchequer of the crown estate and the Scottish

commissioner last week. We pride our detailed paper to the UK

government setting out the case for change. The state in Scotland

should be administered in Scotland, accountable to this Parliament it

should benefit the communities directly. In the year to mamp this

year, there is a surplus of �9.9 million. Resources raised in

Scotland which we should democratly elect to the communities of

Scotland. That democratic process of accountability would be somewhat

better than having some sort of lottery which is the most recent

extraordinary proposal from the United Kingdom government which has

been roundly criticised by a post Work over Lords, job security and

falling care standards. We are maintaining our policy of no

compulsory redundancies to increase job security. We are passing on the

full consequential its to NHS Scotland. There is no doubt that

the morale of nurses is plummeting. They are worried about falling care

standards and they are uncertain about the future. The SNP and the

first Government promised to protect the health budget. Not part

of the budget, but all of the budget. Yet there is a real terms

reduction of �320 million in revenue alone. Can that the First

Minister tell me, if the SNP is protecting the NHS, why are there

fewer health professionals in the NHS than at any point since 2005?

There are more people working in the National Health Service than

there were in 2007. Nobody would argue that the NHS like every other

public sector service in Scotland is not under budgetary pressure. It

comes from the cuts to Scotland from the United Kingdom Government.

That is not just of the work of that Conservative, -- the

Conservative Party, but also the Labour Party. We are now being told

that the Chancellor at the time of wanted to go even further. Given

that we know that the Labour Party would not have protected the

National have service as this government has protected it, how

can any Labour candidate come to this chamber and claim that they

have any credibility in a service at that they refused to even

protect with the Barnett consequential? Uniquely in these

islands, the Cabinet Secretary announced that that no redundancy

promise is to be maintained. We have also to consider another group

of people. That is what the patients feel about the NHS. The

most recent survey in August said that 84.6% of people in Scotland

were satisfied with the service, an increase from the survey in 2007.

We have to recognise the work of our national health service and

also recognise that the people of Scotland recognise and support

their excellent work they are doing. Who has responsibility for

decisions regarding university mergers? The Scottish funding

council is a body responsible and it can make proposals, but

ultimately, it is for the universities themselves concerned.

On Tuesday, Lord Sutherland described the consultation process

regarding the possible merger between Dundee and Abertay as a

merger by fax. His six weeks sufficient time? The Scottish

funding council makes proposals. But there will be no closure of any

college or university. And there will be no forced merger of any

institution either. The Scottish funding council is entitled to make

proposals. There were concerns in terms of the Government's -- issues

surrounding the retiral of the head of Abertay University. We are not

as a Government going to tell any or force any mergers between a

milling partners. -- unwilling parties. In these circumstances,...

I am really saying that the funding settlement for Scottish

universities would not be adequate. Now every university thinks it is

superb, she does not see anything about it. I think they could do a

lot worse than to look at the City of Aberdeen. Tomorrow, there will

be a meeting between the two principles to look again at how the

further sharing of facilities in that city can allow two a distinct

institutions to run at their universities in an efficient manner.

There might be alive in the north that many institutions can have a

look at. Lord Sutherland also said that he could not imagine a worse

we are undertaking a merger. Does the First Minister agree with Lord

Sutherland that this will send a chill down the spines of

universities across Scotland? think the member should catch up

with the consequences of the agreed merger in the three Glasgow

colleges. There has been a strong endorsement on the impact of that

merger. A saving of four million pounds in financial efficiencies.

The merger has established a great New College and the City of Glasgow.

There were 69 mergers of colleges in the period of the last Labour

government in England. Let's do not think that mergers are new. There

will be no closure, no closure of any college or university as far as

this Government is concerned over the period of this government in

Scotland. There will be no forced a -- forced merger either. As we have

demonstrated by the colleges and Glasgow, there can be occasions

where a great deal can be gained for the colleges and for the public

purse in having a merger which achieves such an excellent result.

In light of that answer, can the First Minister confirm that the

merger talks between Dundee and Abertay will come to a halt at the

end of October as the Scottish funding councils set out in its

letter? It is for the universities to respond to the proposals. And I

am sure they will. I will give a serious answer says last week, she

asked a serious question. Well, I think most people who were here

last would say that was a reasonable estimate of the position.

It is for the university chords have to respond to proposals. I

they could is entirely reasonable, given the circumstances of the last

year or so, affecting Abertay, that would be a reasonable thing to have

given the amount of money devoted to these things. I hope and believe

that the response of both universities will be such that they

will come back and demonstrate that they have a plan which will achieve

proper efficiencies and value for the public purse in a way that they

find compatible with their futures. There will be no closures of

institutions under this government, and no forced mergers. That ends

the First Minister's questions. Coming to the close of our coverage

of First Minister's questions. Some very robust exchanges indeed over

health spending. The most intriguing exchanges were Annabel