10/03/2012 Scottish National Party Conference

Good afternoon and a very warm welcome to allow live coverage of

the SNP conference. The party regard this as a launch pad for

their local government election campaign. Delegates are gathering

in the Dear Green Place hoping it will turn from Labour read into SNP

yellow. In about an hour's time, we will hear the keynote speech from

Alex Salmond. Keeping me company and offering expertise is Professor

John Curtis and our man at conference is our political Editor

Brian Taylor. What do you have in store? The Custer merry mayhem and

mischief of course. If you glance over my shoulder a you can see that

you still there. A big queue to get into the hall to hear Alex Salmond.

There will not be an empty seat in the place. Back with you in just a

moment. Although the local government

elections may be at the top of the agenda, the main talking point is

the independence referendum. The issue of whether the ballot paper

has the devo-max option on it has been baffling experts and pundits

alike. Our correspondent has been finding out more about it with a

little musical help. HE SINGS.

This 50 year-old song is about Scotland's place in a changing

world. Little would change that place in the world more than the

SNP's plans for political independence for Scotland. The

party is now on the threshold of a referendum that could deliver

independence, but political journalist Campbell Gunn is not

sure enough of those who voted SNP in the election will be prepared to

vote to take Scotland out of the UK. People voted for the SNP because

they did so well in the first four years and the polls show that there

is still a long way to go before Mr Salmond can win a campaign for

independence and I think there are things beginning to happen that I'm

not sure whether he really believes he can do it either, which is why

he is pushing for the second question.

Not that Mr Salmond or his deputy have shown any signs of doubt about

independence. The first minister even use the official figures

showing Scotland with oil would have a deficit of nearly �11

billion to make the case for independence. Our deficit would be

much less than the UK, must less than the G7 average and we would be

heading to a stronger financial position. We have to look at how

much we contribute to the UK and the answer is 9.6% of UK revenues

with 8.4% of the population. That surplus amounts to about �6,000 for

every man woman and child in the country. Last year every �500 is

what each Scot has sent to London over and above what we get back.

Alex Salmond always sounds confident about his chances of

winning an independence referendum even if the opinion polls suggest

otherwise. He says it his preference to have a single yes, no

question on independence on the ballot paper, but why then is he so

determined to keep open the option of a second question?

There are two views on this. The one view that it is essentially an

insurance policy that you take out because, as the polls suggest, it

is a struggle to get anywhere near a majority vote for independence,

so perhaps there is a view that by having a second question you have a

back-up. His beaver it more the SNP

insurance policy? Of other parties are campaigning for something

within a devolved settlement which is more than we have at present,

that is a start towards independence. That may sound

controversial, but I personally am perfectly happy with an expansion

of the powers that we have at the moment if that is what Scottish

people want. You are a graduate? am an extreme gradualist. I would

not go further. I think Scotland people are ready for independence.

More likely to get it with a single question or a multiple choice?

think whatever is what people will go for because it is the way

forward. They should be only one question unless there is a mile

overwhelming demand to say that people feel they need to questions.

At present moment, one question should suffice on the basis that we

do not lose any of the existing powers or the opportunity to gain

more powers if we are not more successful in the referendum.

De you need a second question? Should it be there? I think all of

the options are as they are, but at the end of the day, I don't think

so. With an emerging devo-plus campaign and individual parties

considering what new powers might be devolved, SNP leadership is in

no hurry to ditch the possibility of a two-question referendum.

By raising this question about more powers, you are spreading division

within the pro-union parties. We are seeing some very different

views from some members of the Conservative Party saying he and no

further, saying -- to people in Labour and the Lib Dems who are

looking for much more than that. The more the debate hangs around

that area, the better it is for the SNP because it does suggest that

the pro-union cause has yet to reach a defined position by what it

means I know. I think we will when on a yes or no option and we will

be working hard to persuade people why Scotland should be independent.

The people that live and work here are the best people to take the

decisions about the future. There is a strand of opinion in Scotland

that wants to see an option between the status quo and independence. It

would be wrong for any democratic rule that out at this stage.

referendum will be talked about lots this weekend, but don't expect

the details to be settled. The UK Government's consultation may now

have closed, but the Scottish government is still seeking views

and will keep doing so until the middle of May. The wrangles over

the referendum will continue for many months to come.

Let's go back to Professor John Curtis and in a moment Brian Taylor.

John, lots of interesting debate there. As Glenn pointed out about

the details of the referendum, do you think we will get more details

in Alex Salmond's speech? I will be very surprised if we get clues at

all apart from the reiteration of the line that he had his composed -

- conference speech in the autumn. He wants people to vote

independence, but as a good democrat he will want to keep it on

the paper. Alex Salmond has ensured that the SNP does not have to move

further on this issue on this side of the local elections. They are

happy for people to keep on talking about it as it helps to spread

division among so Unionist parties, but the truth is that the issue

potentially divides the SNP. I certainly would not want to expose

certain divisions inside his party as to whether or not they should be

one question or two questions. Before we get to the meat of that

debate, Brian, what are you hearing on the ground at conference?

It is incredible. It is the largest bring conference ever had. Nichola

Sturgeon made a cheeky crack in her opening address which we might here

earlier saying that there won't be any empty seats for the leader's

speech at this one. It is large indeed. If you like, you can see

how much the group could potentially jeopardise should the

independence vote go the wrong way because they are standing here with

enthusiasm and extremely encouraged by the prospect of that referendum

vote. If it goes down, it will be a different operation. Some very

interesting points in Glen's piece. Reaction from the SNP about the

questions. Sandra White said to you yesterday that in her eyes a second

question would be confusing. What is the debate going on about the

second question at conference? debate is about strategy. They want

independence, no doubt about it. Independence is what the party is

in business to achieve. I think there are a number of people in the

party, grassroots as well, independence is a given. They

cannot understand why people do not see that as the natural state of

Scotland there by they want to advance that case and put back to

the people and would expect a endorsement. Then you have the

other argument which is the point, the extreme gradualism that we

heard, the idea that you advanced little by little. Take each step as

it comes and allow yourself a fall- back. The party morale is through

the ceiling, and through the stratosphere, but it would change

entirely were independents to go down. Perhaps they have that fall

back of their devo-max or devo-plus option. At this stage, other

parties are saying it must be a straight yes or no question. John

Curtis, Brian is talking about the other parties there. We saw them

almost playing catch-up with Alex Salmond.

Playing catch-up in the sense that they are trying to work out the

best answer to adopt on the future of devolution in Scotland in order

to ensure that independence is defeated from their point of view.

I'm sure Liberal Democrats are regarding this as an opportunity to

suggest that this side of a referendum there should be an offer

to the Scottish party that says if you vote of no, you will get this.

David Cameron has also indicated he is willing to contemplate the

positive it -- possibility of devolution. We got scepticism about

the devolution of taxation powers and corporation tax, but certainly

all of the Unionist parties are having debates not only between

themselves, but the monks themselves as to exactly what this

side of a referendum promises about further devolution. Brian, aside

from the independence referendum debate, this is the launch pad for

the local government election and they have their 600 plus candidates

along at conference. Yes and they are seeing this not just as an

event in itself, although if they make gains in local elections they

will trumpet that as a triumph, but it is of course a platform for that

referendum on independence to come. If you have in do -- additional

councillors across Scotland with their teams, that is a foundation

for winning votes. In a further contest being the referendum.

you very much Brian. And thank you John.

The conference open this morning with an address from deputy first

minister Nichola Sturgeon. Here is Good morning. Good morning

delegates, are you all wide-awake? Good. Welcome to the great city of

Glasgow. For what is our biggest ever spring conference. Let me make

a prediction at the outset, there will be no empty seats far Our

leader's speech this weekend. Delegates, an awful lot has changed

in Scottish politics since we met here in this city, in this very

hall, this time last year. Cast your minds back, back then we were

15 points adrift in the opinion polls. I was the only constituency

SNP in the City of Glasgow and this venue was situated in a Labour

constituency. Our election chances were being written off. Delegates,

we still believed and less than two months later we won an

unprecedented overall majority in I am very proud to say that my own

city, the City of Glasgow, played a very big role in that historic

victory. The Glasgow count took place in this very building, let me

tell you, that was some night. That night will live long in my memory

and in the memory of every SNP activist in Glasgow. It was a night

of high drama, unprecedented success for the SNP. The tensest

moment was waiting to find out that Bill Kidd had won Glasgow by seven

That night we won seat after seat and we became the biggest party -

the biggest Scottish parliamentary party - in this city so delegates,

it is a huge pleasure to welcome you back here to the Scottish

Exhibition and Conference Centre in the SNP constituency of Glasgow

Kelvin, won By Sandra White. It is always great to be in Glasgow,

or great for Glasgow to have the �1 million boost to the city economy

that our conference will bring here this weekend but when the SNP comes

to Glasgow, we are in many, many ways really coming home. It was

founded here in Glasgow 78 years ago. Many of our most important

electoral breakthroughs have happened here. This constituency

has always been at the SNP's heart and central to our vision of a

progressive, fairer and more democratic Scotland. As a

government, we are and will continue to deliver for the people

of Glasgow. Major infrastructure investments like the and 74

motorway extension, the new hospital, -- like the M74 extension.

Everybody is looking forward to these things. Fellow delegates, led

me to do this. We are working towards another important electoral

breakthrough in Glasgow. These are exciting times for Scotland and for

this city. Even people who aren't usually that interested in politics

will often ask me if the SNP really can win the local elections here in

Glasgow. Let me give you the answer here today, the answer is, yes, we

can. But we are not like Labour, we take

nothing for granted. We will work hard for every vote. The people who

will decide the election here and every part in Scotland are the

voters. We face a Labour Party that is crumbling before our eyes. A

Labour Party that is discredited, it losing counsellor's hand over

fist and on that note, I was delighted recently to welcome

former Labour councillor, the new SNP councillor Ifan Rabbani. He is

coming to his first conference, let's give him a warm welcome.

Delegates, we are working flat here in Glasgow and across our country.

We are fighting hard to win the local elections in every single

part of Scotland for the first time we will field candidates in all 32

local authority areas including Orkney and Shetland. We are truly

Scotland's party. A record number of candidates, 50% up on the last

elections. We need local councils across Scotland working hand-in-

hand with our SNP Government in Edinburgh to deliver for the people

of Scotland and that is what we want to deliver at these elections.

We are ambitious for our country and it is that ambition that means

we want our country to be independent. Independence put the

future of our country in our own hands. Independent gives Scotland

and will give Scotland, with 200 other countries across the world,

what they take for granted, the Masters of their own destiny. But

we send a clear message from this conference. It is our intention to

work hard to persuade the people of Scotland for our case of

independence and to win yes vote in the referendum in 2014.

Delegates,... Let's get to work. Enjoy the

conference and the hospitality of this great city. We have got

council elections to win, a referendum to win, let's get on

with it. STUDIO: Nicola Sturgeon there. But

go over to Brian and the conference, he has gathered up some SNP

activists. That is probably the right word. Four with me now.

Tremendous morale here, excellent turnout. You look at Scotland,

rising unemployment, public spending cuts and jobs going in

public authorities, how can you be chipper against a background like

that? Party is moving in the right direction in the opinion polls and

we can tackle the problems. We have not a Scottish Government that is

tackling youth unemployment and you will hear more of that this

afternoon and we know what the issues are this afternoon. We have

got the power to take those on. are in power now, you are an MSP,

supporting a government and yet you are not going that way, the figures

are getting worse. We know we can do something about it though and we

are doing all that began with very limited powers that we have. We are

doing far more than previous executive. The powers are not that

Ltd, a �30 billion budget and nurses are losing their jobs and

cuts in authorities. We do not have the positive job-creating powers

that be will have after independence. We know that the

referendum is coming and we know we can win that. We can change things

for the better. At the moment we are managing as well as we possibly

can. But we are really looking forward to what we can do after

independence. Is it the case that you are shunting responsibility and

consequently blame on to the Westminster government and

Parliament rather than accepting responsibilities as a Scottish

Government was made far from it. is not shunting blame, it is about

trying to get Westminster to work with us to give us the powers we

need to grow our economy and invest for growth and jobs. That is what

the Scottish Government is doing bringing forward capital investment.

You have got more than 30 capital projects ready to go, we did to get

started. Shovel ready? That is correct. We are waiting with the

shovels! We need more power from Westminster to bring forward our

capital budget and investment to do that but the fact is that the

capital budget has had a massive cut from Westminster instead of

help. David London, your opponents' point about youth unemployment is

high and rising, they are right, aren't they? I think the SNP

Government did the right thing for him -- for appointing a minister.

We are serious about getting young people back into work. To give

young people back into work. there had to be cut, didn't there?

The spending was out of control, it would be cut whether it was Labour

or Tory and Scotland needs that? The reality is we do not have as

much control over this as we would like if we had normal powers of

independence. We would have control over our economy in that case and

the purse-strings for Scotland, I hear the future is not too bright

and that is what we are turning the our around and bringing Scotland

forward. Moving back to Shirli-Ann. You are or mentioning independence

and the greater powers that come with the greater powers of

opportunity. It it it is so desperate, get on with the

referendum. A to important we want a debate with the Scottish people.

Regardless of what side you are on, this is the most important

discussion that Scotland will take part in in generations. It is

important that we hear from everyone and yes, we have a

positive vision for Scotland. Not because we are obsessed with the

process or independence itself, we believe that the best people to

take the decisions are the Scottish people themselves. You mention

generations and that issue. He said in the past as has Alex Salmond

that if a referendum is held and is rejected, that is it for a

generation. Is that still the case? If you vote no for independence,

then we are promised by other parties that we may not get

something, we are not sure what it is. Some unspecified time in the

future. If you want constitutional distractions and debate about it, I

am afraid that is to vote for the union. If you have a genuine vision

for the future of the country, it is under independence. Do you think

a straight yes/no question on independence or do you what the

other question on devo-max or devo- plus? For somebody who has

campaigned for independence all my adult life, I would love it if it

was today but the right thing is to wait wait for people to have a

debate. The right thing to do for the people of Scotland - and

nothing the Scottish Government has been correct in the way it is

proceeding with this - is to say that if there is an opinion that

there should be something else other than independent or the

status quo, we must hear that. The UK Government says there will be a

legal underpinning to a yes/no question but not to this idea of

having other options on the ballot paper. Yes but what country in the

world will take to being blackmailed in that way? We will

give legal underpinning if you do what we want you to say. They say

if you get a straight question on the issue on which you have a

mandate, you do not have a mandate in your manifesto for a question of

devo-max, devo-plus, you have got to mandate for a question on

independence. I would be happy to do that but if nobody comes forward

with any other alternatives, then fine. But we are not talking about

political parties, we are talking about trade unions and other

individuals and organisations who are interested in looking at the

other options and we must do that in the interests of democracy.

Would it not be cleaner, simpler and resolving the core question as

to whether Scotland must be in or out of the United Kingdom to have a

St yes/no question? The preferred way forward is a straightforward

yes/no question but we are democrats and there are a

democratic means of doing this. If there are voices coming from within

Scotland from civic Scotland and the people want something else...

The confusion is not caused by the SNP but by the anti- independence

parties led by the Conservatives who are coming up with all kinds of

formulations which they will not explain, that one day they stand

for one thing and another day they stand for another. Better

commissions, various buzzwords. The SNP is absolutely clear - we stand

for independence and we will campaign for that but we will also

listen to the people of Scotland and respond to the people of

Scotland. That is why the Government is consulting on what

kind of shape the referendum should take and listen to the people of

Scotland on that. That will come out with the shape of the

referendum based on what you will tell us. David, this is double-

think. This is adequate we want a referendum on independence but we

have got this other option. You have got an offer to have the legal

underpinning, why don't you get on with it? The people of Scotland

gave the SNP and overwhelming majority and mandate to hold the

referendum and the people of Scotland gave that to the Scottish

Government. The idea that Westminster can tell us what to do

is nonsense. The SNP is in consultation going forward and I

hope they take part in that but this idea that the UK Government

can start poorly in Scotland around to tell us how we can have a

referendum. No, no. This was the point I wanted to make. Two

consultations, one that the UK Government finish yesterday and

ours is not finished so why on earth would we come up with

anything definitive until we have worked it out? For it is a fair

point. Would you say that you are trading the second question for the

date? You get the date of 20th October 14 and say we would love

the second question but these are UK politicians... The I don't -- I

think this is political game- responses to our consultation so

let's see what people say but I don't think this idea of trading is

particularly helpful. Thank you very much. We will lead to get your

place back in the hall for the SNP's leader speech. I will be back

for that but back to the studio now. It is no secret that the SNP's top

target in May's local elections is Glasgow City Council. It is no

coincidence that this weekend's conference is taking place in the

Dear Green Place. Professor John Curtis is still with me here in the

studio. When Nicola Sturgeon was speaking there she says some of the

party's most important electoral breakthroughs had been in Glasgow.

What do you make of their chances in the City? She is right. Their

success in the City was quite remarkable. Having said that, my

view is that the SNP are in danger of over-inflated expectations of

what they might achieve in Glasgow. And therefore as a result what

might still be a pretty good result for them might not end up looking

as good as they hope. Let me explain. It is one thing to suggest

the Labour party might lose its majority on the city. To achieve

that, probably... It is difficult under proportional representation

but we need a swing of around 5%. Some opinion polls suggest the SNP

are doing beyond that but others however are not. One thing is that

was badly missed this week is that the latest opinion poll puts the

SNP support for Holyrood across Scotland as a whole down at around

14%. If you take that Paul and apply the change since 2007 - these

local government seats were last fought in 2007. To the SNP is 1.5%

in this poll. Local government by- elections, we have had about a

dozen or so since May last year. The swing to the SNP is about 4%

which is roughly in the territory that the SNP are likely to need

just to deny 46 Labour the 40 seats they need to control the council.

For the SNP to win control themselves, they need an 8% swing.

If the opinion polls which suggest the support is around 50%, if those

polls are right then yes, the SNP can win Glasgow but one has to say

if one looks at the Government by- elections and the opinion polls in

the round, one has to say that there is by no means any guarantee

that the SNP will when Glasgow. They have got a good chance of

denying Glasgow Labour control. They probably have the most likely

outcome which is a council in which there is no overall control and at

the end of the day, who runs the City Council may well depend on the

decisions of the greens who are most likely to emerge as the

largest third party in the City chamber. Prospects across the rest

of Scotland, fielding candidates in all 32 local authorities and even

including Orkney as Nicola pointed out in her speech. What of their

We are expecting the SNP to make gains. We are talking about seats

last contested in 2007. Even if the SNP don't do as well as last May,

they could still make significant gains. The second thing, this is a

system of proportional representation. This did not stop

the SNP winning control of Holyrood, but expects the odds against you.

If you look at councils where it won't take much more than a modest

swing to achieve overall control, look at Dundee, look at Perth,

maybe Midlothian and maybe Angus, but that probably is it. At the end

of the day, most councils in Scotland will still end up with no

party in overall control, but many councils will probably have more

SNP councillors and perhaps more s n p lead administrations or

coalitions then we have at the moment. Finally, how do you think

people will be using their vote? Do you think they were used it as a

voter confidence in the SNP? It will be very interesting to see

because some people might be scared off by the referendum. One has to

say there is a really big unknown about local elections. These are

the first to take place in Scotland since 1995 that have not taken

place on the same day as a Holyrood election. We are kind of assuming

that, for the most part, the results of the local elections will

be not dissimilar to the result of a Holyrood election, but in truth

we cannot be sure of that. If we look at Westminster at the moment,

Labour Party are ahead of the SNP, so that is one big uncertainty.

Secondly, one has to say given the increasing emphasis on the

independence debate, given that we know that around a half of the

people that voted for the SNP last year when not in favour of

independence for a whole variety of reasons why at the end of the day,

they SNP might still gain seats but not do as well as 12 months ago.

You saw from those delegates there are very high expectations, very

confident. The danger the SNP faces by talking up expectations, people

may say, hang on, the balloons have started to burst. Thank you very

much. In the hall they have just finished

discussing the Social Union between Scotland and England. Emphasis on

how much better the two could get on if they become politically

separate. I am joined now from the wall by Angus Robertson who is an

SNP group leader at Westminster and the mastermind behind the

referendum campaign. Good afternoon, thank you for joining me. The hall

is packed just now as delegates discuss the social union partly

because Mr Salmond will be speaking shortly. Do you think a lot of SNP

delegates are concerned about how the Social Union will be portrayed

as they try to take the message of independence out to the doorsteps?

It is very important and I think the turnout in the hall is

reflective that the subject and continuing important relations we

have with our neighbours and England, Wales and Ireland is a

major consideration. Independence is about moving political control

to Holyrood, but it is about maintaining links that we value. It

is important to understand that, that is one reason the hall is so

fall. It is also one reason why SNP membership is so Boyd. We get more

members joining from outside Scotland, not least from England.

Realistically, is this not about trying not to scare the horses

because you are trying to impress upon the delegates how important

the union is so that they take the message out there and people do not

get scared about the break-up. It is not, it is what we believe

and it is what we know the country believes. We value our

relationships with our neighbours, but people are increasingly

understanding that the issue at hand is moving sovereign decision-

making to Scotland where the people are in charge, all of us regardless

of where we come from, it is an inclusive message. It is at the

heart of the SNP and that is why we are debating it. We debate this

because we think it is important and we know it is important because

people out there say-so. One reason why the SNP is doing so well is

that we are reflecting more and more of the attitudes of the

largest part of Scottish society. don't want to be accused of navel-

gazing, but if we can consist -- concentrate on the BBC, Nichola

Sturgeon said she often goes on holiday to Portugal and she watches

BBC there. She says people in the modern world watch TV across

borders. What are your reassurances to people in Scotland about things

like the BBC, like these cultural elements?

I should declare an interest if somebody who has reported far there

BBC, I am a big fan of the BBC and remain so. I think we can do more

with broadcasting in Scotland, retaining the opportunity to watch

great broadcasters like the BBC, but also ensure that more of the

licence fee stays in Scotland and support broadcasting in Scotland.

Many of us turn on the television and wonder why we are watching UK-

wide the news that often ignores what is going on in Scotland and

then we have to wait until 6:30pm to get away news. Things are out of

balance. One of the great things about being able to make decisions

in Scotland is that we can get the broadcasting service that is best

for Scotland as opposed to one thought-out by senior management

that the BBC in London. Because a strong links with the UK, do you

think people will question the point about independence and the

point about Scotland becoming a separate race shown, pray example

Nichola Sturgeon talking about the banks and she said an independent

Scotland would come together with the rest of the UK and worked

together for a bail-out. What is the point of independence if we are

to maintain the strong links? Because it is changing the nature

of the relationship with the nations of these islands to being a

relationship of equals. Working together of -- as equals. We have

done a lot of work in understanding where the public isn't we

understand that the people are in listening mode. They want to

understand the independence case. I think the people want to be

persuaded and have questions about subjects. We are finding that when

giving answers, people are becoming ever more convinced that Scotland

making decisions at home, by people who live in Scotland, that theme is

a strong one and one which is persuading more people. People get

the sense of being an independent country in an interdependent world,

that is the normality of the 21st century. We want Scotland to be a

normal country and be more successful making decisions far

ourselves where it makes a difference, but where thing should

remain the same, that is what we will continue to do. We have been

discussing a red tear independence and the third question, devo-max

and so on. It is interesting hearing from the S M P's but don't

support the second question. Sandra White has been quoted as saying, it

is confusing. Did you want the devo-max question in the ballot

paper? I am a working very hard to prepare for the independence

question that we will have in the referendum. There will only be two

questions, whether Scotland should be an independent castrate --

country and whether there should be as second option of devo-plus,

devo-max, up West Scotland has more power. It sounds like the party are

not supporting rat. Here is a BBC exclusive, the Scottish National

Party is in favour of Scotland being an independent country. That

is what we are campaigning for, but as we have said repeatedly, we are

consulting on whether people should be able to also have an option and

of a greater form of devolution within the UK. There are all kinds

of organisations that has said that should be the case. We should

respect that people have different views. If there is a second option

that could be on the ballot paper, he is to say that should not be the

case? Certainly not Westminster. My energies will be campaigning for

independence, but there is a logic to people agreeing that we should

have more decision-making powers in Scotland. I am convinced that as we

get closer, that people have thought through the prospect of

making decisions closer to home, people would not only vote for

devo-max or devo-plus, but people would vote for independence because

we are talking about independence in an interdependent world rather

then some 19th century view of independence. When people

understand that, they understand the imperative of making these

kinds of decisions closer to home was remaining in an interdependent

world working with neighbours and friends. Thank you for that

exclusive that you are campaigning for independence. Would you

campaign for devo-max as well? are going to be campaigning for

more decision-making so it is logical that we will be in favour

of anything that brings more decision-making powers. So you have

a split campaign? I think you are trying to stand up a story or

hypothesis that does not stand up to scrutiny. Let's go back to

basics, we are in favour of independence and referendum, that

is what we will campaign for. We are in favour of a second question

in terms of more powers. I think there is a continuum, more powers

whether in the default setting, you get to the ultimate more powers and

independence. There is a logic that people understand. I am preparing

for the independence question and so are my colleagues. Your viewers

will have noted this conference is packed. It is a spring conference

and supposed to be smaller than the annual conference. We are

absolutely up for the cut for this. What is going to be happening after

the election is that the yes campaign for the referendum, this

is really important because there are great many people out there

that are not in the SNP, but do want independence and we are going

to encourage all of them to join the yes campaign. That is why I

think this will be successful because it is for everyone in

Scotland. Thank you very much for joining me.

I am joined once again by Professor John Curtis. John, how do the polls

look on the referendum? The first thing to talk about is what answers

are we getting from the opinion polls if people are simply asked if

they will vote for or against independence. They have been about

a dozen or so readings of questions of that type, different wordings,

some asking questions that are proposed for the ballot paper, but

if we take all of those and all of the polls where people say they do

not know, what we discover is that on average 40% of people say they

will vote for independence has 60% against. You can do the same thing

with a half-dozen or so opinion polls that were conducted in the

second half of 2011 before the row about the referendum took place,

make the same calculation and discover that at that stage 41% on

average were in favour. Mr Roberts and may have found a lot of people

who think independence is a good idea, but on average those people

have to register with the pollsters and the truth is that despite the

enormous arguments we have had, it looks as though public opinion on

independence has not changed. The second thing to talk about his way

to the polls suggest we stand about the merits of independence,

devolution Max and the status quo? I think there is one

misapprehension and that is the idea that devolution Max is the

most popular option. If you ask people to say which of those things

they most like, take the average will recent opinion polls, what you

discover is that 29% are in favour of independence, 30 in favour of

devolution Max and 30 in favour of the status quo. Scotland is divided

equally between these three options. You can then go on to show that

everyone in favour of independence is willing to regard devolution Max

has a second preference and are willing to vote for it if we have

devolution Max West his status quo. The everybody in favour of the

status quo would prefer devolution Maxtor independence. Therefore if

you asked people whether they prefer devo-max to independence,

more people do, and more people prefer devo-max to the status quo.

In that sense, devo-max is the most popular. It is a that sense in

which it is the most popular. It is basically everybody second

preference and most people are willing to vote for it as opposed

to the other alternative. That is where the popularity of devo-max

That information feeding into the debate is critical. You were in

Westminster on Wednesday and you came up with a solution for this.

There have been a variety of questions that if we have a

referendum, how come we ask the question in such a way that we get

a clear, decisive answer that for most people means that 50% vote in

favour? Either we get the right winner... And bearing in mind that

there are some ways of structuring the referendum which could create

incentives for people not to express what they want. Take the

question that we should ask first of all, whether people want change

and then if they do, do they want devolution max or independence

which is what the Electoral Reform Society says. If you are in favour

of devo-max which is the case but you definitely do not want... The

other way round of doing it given the way that all parties say they

want a straight question on independence, let's have one. But

then we have a second question and this time it is the second question

whereas previously it has been the first. If Scotland remains in the

United Kingdom, do you think it should have devo-max or not? The

question is conditional is on the first one. It should not favour

people with different responses. It should... Equally if the opinion

polls change and the independence vote becomes most popular, that is

To one of the SNP's flagship policies, and getting rid of the

nuclear bases. It point that to happen in the soon as possible

timescale. Here's a flavour of the debate.

Conference, we have spoken many times at SNP, occasions over the

years about removal of Trident. Now our last we are in touching

distance of that aim. And it is only true independence that the

people of this hall and of this country will see the end of nuclear

warheads and delivery systems in Scotland.

We need to think about how this will be achieved and under a

planning Thame, Angus and Derek and others, very much looking at this

alongside other areas of policy -- are planning team. We can disregard

the wild-eyed claims that Scotland will be liable for a replacement

based elsewhere, which is one of the claims of Westminster MPs. If

they were possibly like to build it out of Lego... I am sure I have

still got some under the bed from years ago! The claim was not found

liable for the costs of a new base in Russia when it had the old

Soviet missiles removed in 1994 and they were taken back to Russia. As

a direct answer to my question about the removal of missiles and

clean-up of bases in Kazakhstan, their Foreign Minister told me that

the cost was $600 million and it was met by Russia and the United

States of America. I did expect Americans to meet any of these

costs but I do expect that the people who actually want to own

these weapons should meet the costs of these weapons and that is not us.

The timescale in Kazakhstan first for was two years, the Minister

told me well. You could talk about decades for the removal of Faslane.

I would like to see it disappear completely within a very short

period of time but Kazakhstan had a huge amount more weapons than we

actually have here and that was achieved within a timescale of two

years so you can forget about those scare stories. That the London

government wants to play with the big boys, that is a problem for the

coalition and Labour -- if the Widespread demonstrations across

the UK in 1967 and there is evidence of a clear North-South

divide and I think you can work out why that might be. I would like to

commend to you this publication which had the privilege of the

author speaking to me. Trident - no where to go by John Ainslie. I will

quote from it. He has touched on the UK politicians and the

scaremongering and it is important to know what the role of the

military is in that. For instance, quoting Admiral West, I will spare

you the accent. If this was forced on us by separation and a lot of

the cost of the clean-up for want of a better word should be carried

by Scotland. Philip Hammond, the UK defence secretary he also seems to

unable to equip the troops he sends abroad, that he would pay the costs

for relocating. And to not lose out on it three days later, Laura

Roberts and said we would pay multi-billion-pound compensation.

Both touch on the break-up of the USSR and International law is clear

on these matters. MoD officials were talking about the nightmare

scenario for Trident and that scenario was that the London

government would pay any price to keep Trident at Faslane or Coalport.

If Scott and remains firm on this issue and that uncertain that we

will, -- of Scotland remains firm, the UK will have to abandon the

nuclear programme. This is not a blue for triumphalism, we will have

to be patient and responsible and that to be global citizens on this

issue. Without sounding editor, can I give the words of the First

Minister from January this year. "it is inconceivable that an

independent nation of 5.5 million would tolerate the continued use of

mass destruction weapons on its soil. Please support the motion,

thank you. Our Association does not stop at nuclear weapons. We want to

get rid of those horrible radioactive waste making buildings

called nuclear power stations. I don't know if you know the record

of these stations but they have never worked at 100%, not one. One

of them has never met its criteria, what it said it would make in

electricity. Because we have got so many natural electricity making

hydropower stations we do not need them. As you know, some of them are

mothballed now but we are still paying to get them cleaned up. But

I basically with the Trident programme... Your councillors

throughout Scotland are trying to clean up all the debris kept here.

Am glad to have an opportunity of speaking on this resolution because

it is the most important issue, it seems to me. Have you noticed that

these various people who propose some form of devolution max or

devolution something or other always say, foreign affairs and

defence can be left in Westminster. That is absurd because the most

dangerous aspect of politics... British Governments, Westminster

governments, usually cling to the illusion that Britain is still a

great power which it is not, of course. It makes them a puppet for

the United States. They need united States support for

submarines maintenance and to play the kind of role they want to play.

What does it mean? It means getting involved in things like Afghanistan

and Iraq. Scotland should be a prosperous, medium-sized European

country like our neighbours across the North Sea with moderate

armaments, non-nuclear and we should to be able to be sensible

about these things. The extraordinary thing about the

British Government and the nuclear weapons is the policy is a

contradictory. They are in favour internationally of a policy to

reduce nuclear weapons but do their best to encourage other countries

not to go nuclear put on the other hand not only to maintain these

submarines in the Scottish territory but they are proposing to

renew them and strengthen them at very great expense indeed. One

estimate was �100 million. The whole thing is an utter disaster.

One of the worst aspect of British policy and it is the real reason -

one of the major reasons - we must escape their control. I am joined

now by one of the MSPs who spoke in the debate, John Finnie. Thank you

for joining me. Your motion stated that the conference believes that

an independent Scotland will have the right to decide that the

Trident nuclear submarines should be moved. One critic said that

allowed a bit of wriggle room to have the right rather than calling

for the immediate removal of them. There are practical considerations

connected with this. First of all, the Scottish people must decide

first and foremost in the independence referendum. The good

thing about this is the cross-party consensus on the obscenity of

having weapons on our sure. And of UK politicians, while having

munitions of death on our own shores. It is important to

recognise the practicalities that will be disposed of. A how will it

take place in an independent Scotland? The cost of clean-up will

be absolutely enormous. Be clean up the facilities in coal port,

missiles could not be placed anywhere else in the UK. To think

that in in Faslane and Coalport would be removed... Coalport will

play an important role with a conventional fleet in an

independent Scotland. It would be more comprehensive than the Royal

Navy fleet deployed in Scotland at the moment. The reality is they

cannot be redeployed. The report I alluded to in my speech highlighted

that if we revisited the site initially considered 15 years ago,

no where feasible in the UK exist. The idea of the eastern seaboard of

the United States is also in a no for Non-Proliferation reasons. Also

difficulties associated with the French. That leaves one option

which at one time might have been acceptable. 60 safety regulations,

that is a floating facility. That is no longer acceptable. Only

independence will bring the removal. How do you think UK politicians and

the rest of the UK will think about removal of weapons in the entire

United Kingdom? I think and hope that the UK realise that there are

many challenges. We don't agree with the way they are going about

business as regards dealing with the economic situation, there

should be capital investment. That should not be in weapons of mass

destruction. The obscene sums of money for replacement to keep hold

of this so there will have to be disarmament. John Finnie, thank you

for joining me from the conference. Just a few moments before we cross

back to the SECC 4 Alex Salmond's speech in a few moments. A moment

for him, John Curtis? He spoke before the Scottish parliamentary

elections so it has been an It has been an enormous change and

last year was truly remarkable. It was so remarkable it has put the

SNP in a position they probably never expected to be in and that is

a position to have the votes in Scottish parliament and as

legislation and hold a referendum on independence and therefore, as

we have seen, almost undoubtedly most of their time in office,

certainly through to the autumn of 24 team, is going to be

overshadowed by this big question about Scotland's constitutional

future. It presents the SNP with a problem because in the meantime

they have a government Iran and they have to maintain popularity as

a party -- a government to Rome. Doing things in office to promote

Scotland's interest in government. They have two balls to keep in the

air. I have to stop you there. We will go straight to the SECC.

You might have noticed, a couple of other conferences last weekend with

some empty seats, not here this weekend. I am going to ask you now

to say a big hello to the people watching in the, wait for it, for

over spell balls in the exhibition Delegates, it is my great pleasure

now to introduce the main event of our conference, the address by the

main man. The speech to conference by our first minister Alex Salmond.

When I introduced Alex to the conference in October, I was able

to announce to you that he had just been awarded the South Australia

international climate change Leadership Award. Since then, the

First Minister has won the Harold politician of the year award, the

UK political Studies Association and politician of the year award.

The Spectator magazine's politician of the year award and the best

politician award at the Scottish Green Energy awards. You guys

thought I used to have a tough time keeping his feet on the ground,

didn't you. After all of that on 27th December last year, our first

minister was awarded the Times 2011 I think it is part of my job to

bring his feet back down to earth, so I am going to remind him today

that he is in Glasgow, the great city of Glasgow and in Glasgow, you

are nothing until you have won the Delegates, our first minister is a

worthy, extremely worthy recipient of all of these rewards. He has led

our party to unprecedented success, but even more importantly than that,

he has bought the independence debate to life and he has put our

country centre-stage. Delegates, he is our leader, he is Scotland's

first minister, I ask you to welcome to the stage with rapturous

applause, the First Minister, Alex Delegates, speaking to you now as

Britain of the year... Delegates, at some of you who have been going

to these conferences for even longer than I have will notice that

we swapped the speeches from the leader and the deputy leader. I

used to speak on the Sunday, Nicola would speak on their Saturday. We

change them a run because I felt that if I had to introduce Nicola

on their Sunday, that would temper what she says about me on the

Saturday. Another great idea bites the dust. Delegates, we also

remember that almost a year ago to the day I stood on this very stage

and spoke to you about Scotland's future. We were behind in the polls,

the press did not give us a chance, but we believed in our course. I

said, if we worked hard and and the support and trust of the people and

were working together, we could make the nation stronger, fairer

and better. Just refused short weeks later, the Scottish people

place their trust in us and did so in record, overwhelming numbers. --

just a few weeks later. Every action we have taken as a

government to since then has been about repaying that trust.

Honouring our commitment to the people. In every town and community

we are working as never before to make Scotland the country we all

know it can be. Building recovery, creating opportunity, working for a

Scotland that can truly prosper. A strong economy and a just society.

What a difference those extra SNP votes have made. The special votes,

the ones which built as an absolute majority in a proportional

Parliament. This time last year, we had just passed our final budget as

a minority government. Plans scraped through despite the

opposition of the Labour Party. Back then, Labour opposed and

almost stopped our plans for 25,000 modern apprenticeships. They

rejected an almost defeated our plans to protect family budgets

were the council tax freeze to keep our streets safer with 1000 extra

police officers. The Labour Party, yes the Labour Party, voted against

work and training for young Scot. Once upon a time delegates for

Labour said they were the People's Party, but in May last year, the

people spoke and they chose What a difference a year makes, but

the difference is not in the nature of the Labour opposition we face,

if we say black, Labour will still insist it is white. If I was to say

that the sky was blue, then Labour and the parliament say -- would say

no it isn't. As we move forward they will still do everything they

can to hold Scotland back. Even in this year's budget they could not

help themselves. They've voted against the 25,000 modern

apprenticeships a game. They voted against the council tax freeze

again. They voted against the extra police officers again. The Labour

Party currently want every single family in Scotland to pay hundreds

of pounds more in council tax despite the pressure on family

budgets, everyone has to pay hundreds of pounds more according

to Labour. Except in their case of spelling council where they voted

with the Tories to reduce it by 23p per week. That is right, a whole

23p. At the same time they voted with the Scottish Tories against

the freeze. The only consistent thing about Labour in Scotland

right now he is they vote with the Tories at every opportunity. That

is why the people of Scotland vote Just as last year's election took

away the power of the Labour Party to block progress across Scotland,

so too can the upcoming elections in May. The people can call times

up on Labour's local thief bums. If there is any place that needs

relief from a Labour Party that has lost its way, it is the City of

Glasgow. Friends, Scotland can flourish and Glasgow will flourish

with the SNP. Delegates, last year I spoke of Glasgow from this

platform and the influence it has which has stressed that --

stretched across the globe. First as the workshop of the empire and

now as the creative city building a new empire of the mind. I announced

that �90 million investment, government and private sector

working together at Strathclyde University. That was a substantial

announcement. At the very cutting edge of the Green Revolution and

the knowledge economy combining Scotland's greatest strength, our

environment, our people and a education. It was a promise, a

signal of better days to come. A first step in in the greenery

industrialisation of the city and this country. It is a project that

is already bearing fruit. One year on I can tell you there are already

100 jobs directly linked to the innovations Centre. 100 high is

valued jobs in this city that will keep Scotland at the forefront of

green energy research and create opportunities across this nation

and that, delegates, is just the start. We can expect a further 600

high-skill, high-value jobs will be That is just one Investment amongst

many in recent months. North, south, east and west, energy finance

engineering, international companies making Scotland their

home combining with Clyde Blowers, Global Energy, Scottish companies

making the world their oyster. Jobs and opportunities, that is the SNP

priority. Last December we appointed a minister for youth

employment. The first such appointment anywhere in these

islands. Angela has an additional budget of �30 million at a clear

instruction to do all that she can to improve the life chances of

young Scots. We have a clear commitment to our young people who

yearn to be productive. No young person should go through school

only to become an unemployment statistic at the age of 16, we will

not allow that in Scotland. That is why we have delivered 300,000

Training Opportunities since 2007 including those record 25,000

modern apprentices -- apprenticeships. Each one of those

linked to a real job. These 25,000 apprenticeships on not just for one

year, they are for every single year of this Parliament. We are

taking forward opportunities all, an initiative that will see every

single 16-19 year-olds in Scotland offered the training or a learning

place if they are not already in a job, Modern apprenticeship or full-

time education. More can and more must be done. Today I can announce

a �5 million package which will insure a further 2500 young people

are given the right support to help them towards the world of work.

This will engage young people in volunteering opportunities in

international and national events. Let me be clear, conference, this

Government's commitment to young men and women is unwavering. We

intend to create conditions in this land which will see a live

opportunity for every young Friends, this conference is about

progress. It is about Scotland moving up a gear. It is about the

path and the opportunities that lie ahead. In this land of

possibilities, in this Scotland, we have much to look forward to. In a

little over two years, this city will host the Commonwealth Games

and preparations continued to be on track and on budget. Construction

began last summer in the athletes and is it -- village. Once the

Games are done, that great facility will be used to provide affordable

homes for local families. Around this very conference venue,

delegate, around this venue today is being built the Scottish Hydro

arena, the venue for netball and gymnastics from the Games. The

arena will seek 12,000 people and become one of Europe's busiest

venues contributing an estimated �130 million annually to the

Scottish economy. Her longer will we be turning away big act like

Barbra Streisand and! If his party keeps growing at its current rate,

we may need that menu far Our Own As First Minister, I am committed

to ensuring that we make these gains the greatest sporting event

our country has ever seen. -- these Gains. I look forward to them not

because Scotland compete in its own right but I know that on a global

stage up is where we belong. In 2014, our light will shine for the

world to see. The Commonwealth Games, the Ryder Cup in the second

home coming year. As well as having great ambitions for Scotland's

sporting stars in the 2014 games, this government has great

aspirations for the event to be a catalyst for economic and social

regeneration. Real benefits for communities and individuals, for

our society as a whole. That is why I am delighted today to announce a

new Legacy initiative. The establishment of a �10 million fund

that will allow communities to bring the local sports facilities

across Scotland into the 21st century. Whether it be the

renovation to a community hall, returning of a bowling green or a

new multi-purpose sports field, it is to inspire the young to seize

the opportunity presented by the games and its legacy to become a

better nation. Yes, these are exciting times for Glasgow. Jobs

are coming. The Commonwealth Games are coming. And as far as local

election are concerned, the SNP are coming.

2014 will see another significant event for Scotland. In January, the

Prime Minister tried to lay down the law and dictate the terms of

Scotland's referendum. But I have got a message for Cameron, Clegg

and Ed Miliband, the days of London telling Scotland what to do and

think, these days are over! But delegates, of course we should

thank the Prime Minister. LAUGHTER After his intervention,

SNP membership has surged, over 2,400 in the weeks that followed as

Robert Burns might have said. The best laid schemes of mice and

Friends, the support will continue to rise because home-rule with

independence beat Tory rule from Westminster any time and any day.

Because, delegates, there is a simple and winning truth about

independence. It is fundamentally better for our nation with our

decisions about our success are taken by the people who care most

about Scotland. That is and always will be the people who live in

Scotland. We have the greatest stake in our nation's well-being.

In good times or bad, it is the people of Scotland who will work

hardest and care most. No one will do a better job than the people

living here. The people of Scotland in charge, speaking with our own

voice and reflecting our own priorities and voices, we will make

our country better. That is our message of hope for this nation.

And what a contrast with the London parties' message of fear. They want

to knock Scotland's confidence, Scotland's self-belief. Basic

victory through negativity -- basic victory and they are not in and

that good at that. -- they seek victory. We are being treated to

some very bizarre contributions from the anti- independence parties.

Wiliam Hague said that the British embassies would no longer promote

Scotch whisky according to the Daily Mail. But I have dug a little

deeper and discovered that Mr Wiliam Hague actually charges the

Scottish Government every time we hold a Scotch whisky reception!

Then the Daily Mirror reported that a threat to take away our pandas.

Don't worry, they will be staying in Scotland. I have decided to

offer them political asylum... The United Kingdom Government did

not contribute a single R'n'B to the pandas in our capital city of

Adana. The people of Scotland have got wise to the scare stories. A

Westminster tactic tried before to stop devolution, it failed because

these people of Scotland saw it for what it was - empty, hollow,

negative scaremongering. It failed then and it will fail now.

We know the achievements that have been made with the power that

Scotland already has. We have seen progress as a country that has been

made in those areas where our nation has already some

independence. He in our National Health Service, a record low

waiting times. Record high satisfaction in jobs that our

health professionals do. Certain It is in the spirit that the SNP

and government continues to protect frontline spending despite the

Westminster cuts and despite the huge pressures on our budget. With

the people of Scotland in charge to Scotland health service we can

choose and have chosen a different path. The path that reflects

Scotland's social-democratic consensus, a shared progressive

value, as a society. A Tory Prime Minister once told us there was no

alternative to those policies. On the health policies we are showing

friends in England but there is an alternative and let me be

absolutely clear. Because of the independence we have over

Scotland's National Health Service, this government, this SNP

Government, will ensure that Scotland's National Health Service

is never for sale. In education, I remember back in

1979. Well, I was just a day denounce -- just a babe in arms

then. Even then, I remember that some of the foremost sceptics about

devolution were in our universities. Is there anyone now on the campus,

student or academic who were rather that the Tories were in charge of

our universities? If they were and run from London, free education

would be a thing of the past. Public funding would be slashed.

Tuition fees would today be creating an insurmountable barrier

for thousands of young Scots. A barrier to inspiration, aspiration

and talent. Our universities to buy a huge international success. Five

in the world's top 200. More research papers per head than

virtually any other nation on the face of this planet. With a

protection of independence that we as a Scottish Parliament have given

them from the philistines of Whitehall.

So, conference, we have even just a taste of independence. We have been

able to deliver fair policies, more so than anywhere else in these

islands. In higher and further education and of that we should be

rightly proud. As a party and government, we will never kick away

the ladder opportunity. Never put a price on learning that undermines

the value of learning. The Tories'' decision to scrap the educational

maintenance allowance is part of that same agenda. An agenda that

Scotland rightly and completely and roundly reject. Just as our

Parliament stood firmly against tuition fees, so we do behind the

educational maintenance allowance in favour of proper support for our

college students. For 35,000 young Scots, with the SNP, the

educational maintenance allowance is here to stay.

Progress in our National Health Service and education in creating

say the communities. Earlier this week official statistics were

published showing 17,343 police officers in Scotland. For the 4th

year in a row, the SNP Government has delivered a -- and protected

the officers in our communities. A truly remarkable achievement given

Westminster government's funding cuts and one of course but the

Labour Party said would take us 13 years. In this, another area of

public life, where we have an element of independence we can

choose a better way. As we work to keep the police officers in our

communities delivering a 35 year low recorded crime and the fear of

crime that continues to fall. Down south, they look to privatise. Yes,

privatise... Key police functions. Investigating crime, attainment and

even controlling neighbourhoods. Contracts open to the highest

bidder and the lowest common denominator and now the United

Kingdom Government's own figures reveal that England will see a

16,000 reduction in police officers. The contrast is clear. More bobbies

on the beat in Scotland, or cuts to coppers under Cameron.

So if a measure of independence on health, education and law and order,

we have made Scotland a better place. I think what we could do

with Scottish control of the economy and security. Right now,

our economy needs bank lending and security. We have sent a list of

shovel ready projects to London and we demand that they are redeemed.

We have major banks largely in the public sector, why are they not

instructed to lend to force the pace of economic recovery?

Of course, we now know from the official figures from last year

that with control of our own finances, Scotland would have been

to �0.6 billion better off. �510 for every man, woman and child --

2.6 billion better off. In a devolved Scotland, we can command.

In an independent Scotland, we can deliver.

On international representation, why would we wish to be isolated

and ignored in Europe on we could be influential and respected? On

defence, why would this nation of 5 million people elect to waste

billions on weapons of mass destruction while we still have

thousands waiting for a decent home and a live chance?

Independence, friends, means real security. Westminster would spend

on nuclear-weapons which could destroy the world, Scotland should

spend on social provision which should be the envy of the world.

Friends, our task is nothing less than to transform Scotland, to

change our nation for good. In the local elections in May at we can

take the next steps on that journey. Elected a strong team of SNP

councillors who will put their communities first. Conference,

these elections are about local services. Help for hard-pressed

families with their council tax freeze. Safer streets and keeping

the 1000 extra police. About giving are unpaid carers more of the

support that they need. Every vote for the SNP is a vote to build

recovery with investment in new homes, new schools, investment in

jobs and training. We here and we understand the pressures

individuals and families are facing across our nation. Step-by-step, we

will deliver. We will use the powers that we have to date and

together we will make Scotland better. That is right and good in

itself, but friends, it is a statement of intent, a signal of

the nation that we can be and will be with the powers of independence.

The parents, for young Scots, we know what Alan met -- nation should

be. And we know how we can get there. Already new investment in

children's centres, a re targeting of resources through the early

years fund and that these elections, a new step forward. We, as a party,

have long cherished the ambition to increase pre-school education. In

our first term, we moved from 412 hours to 475 hours' free pre-school

per annum benefiting 100,000 children a year. Now we intend to

move further and to place it in statute so that families in every

part of Scotland can share in that benefit. Conference, we will place

into the new Children's Bill introduced to Parliament next year,

a statutory guarantee of though the 600 hours of free nursery education

for every Scottish three and four- For every Scottish three and four-

year-old and for every looked after a two-year-old in our land. The

best package of free nursery education on offer anywhere in the

United Kingdom. A statement of faith and commitment to the future.

Flexible in its delivery, using the wisdom of the early years past

force to help us, but definite in a intent. For every young mum or dad

juggling work and payment, the S -- the message is clear, they SNP is

Friends, the SNP is here to build a fairer Scotland. My ambition is to

reduce inequality. To give all Scots a fair chance in life. Across

the world, the evidence is Clear - the more equal society, the better

it is for all of us. I want a Scotland where a fair wage is a

living wage and that is what we can achieve with independence. We have

taken the first steps already. Every employee at of the Scottish

government, National Health Service are now guaranteed but least a

living wage of �7.20 per hour. Two- thirds of thousands benefiting

Shelby women. Delegates, where we have the power, we shall act. I can

another day when every single SNP lead council elected in May will

Thousands more of our lowest-paid workers will receive their pay and

fair play with the SNP putting more money in their pockets, putting

more money to boost the local economy is as we build towards a

Scotland that is a living wage Conference, by our deeds we have

been known and by our deeds we shall be known. If we make the

right choices for a universities and for fairness for families, who

can doubt that we will also make the right choices in the economy

and on Scotland's place in the world. Scotland's social democracy

can survive and flourish, but only where we have the power. We can be

a beacon for social justice, but only if we allow that light to

shine. Delegates, the lesson is a simple one, a little independence

has been good for Scotland, but real independence will be even

Let us set out the task that lies before us. We have to import the

vast resources of this country to work for the benefit of the people

creating a competitive economy and in doing so creating new

opportunities and jobs. Saving and investing in offshore energy wealth

is a guarantee for a safe and secure a future. Scotland, not just

a nation of promise, but a potential fulfilled standing tall

in the world speaking with our own voice, a partner for justice and a

partner for peace. Friends, these things and more are just a yes vote

away. When the UN was formed, there were just over 50 independent

countries in the world. Today that figure has risen to almost 200.

Some still say independence is difficult, but conference, these

numbers don't live. Other 10 countries that join the European

Union in 2004, a majority have become independent since 1990 and

Scotland is bigger than six of these 10. Each and every one of

these nations has a seat at Europe's top table, how right they

cherish, a right that Scotland should embellish. Being independent

is the most natural thing in this world. It is what we seek as

individuals for our own families. A point where we take responsibility

for our own future and success. We are able to speak with our own

voice, choose our own direction and contribute in our own distinctive

way. With independence we stand on our own two feet, but we don't

stand on our own. We gave a more modern relationship with the

nations of these islands, a true partnership of equals. At 21st

century Social Union replacing a political union that has long

passed its sell-by date. It will require effort and commitment to

make our country as good as we know it can be. In Scotland that is

better than the one we have today, a more successful Scotland that we

can pass on proudly to future generations. So let us now heed the

words of the Patriot, go forward into the community of May --

nations to lend our own independent Leader of the SNP Evette, Alex

Salmond, receiving a standing ovation at a SECC following his

speech at the spring conference saying that people had placed their

trust in the SNP and has since been about repaying that trust. He says

that people of Scotland are now voting against Labour. He says a

series of funding packages and in terms of independence, he says home

rule with independence beats Tory rule in Westminster. Working his

way down the Cabinet. I am still joined here by Professor John

Curtis of Strathclyde University. We are watching these pictures

coming in, what did you make of that speech?

Verdi tell about the independence referendum and arguably, at least

by SNP stampers, a rather independent slight speech.

Independence was one of two principal themes, but another

important motif going through it was a question of the local

elections and in particular the SNP objective of trying to win control

of Glasgow. I think it was interesting to hear the arguments

he was using in favour of independence. It was not primarily

about the economy all about making Scotland better off financially, it

was primarily saying look under the SNP record. Under that record

Scotland has been more socially democratic with respect to the

health service and education. He was trying to say the reason why

you should have any independent Scotland is that you will have a

more socially democratic Scotland and I think he was trying to argue

with people -- are due to people that is if this is what we can

deliver it through devolution, then surely you can trust us on in

dependency. You're trying to use a sense that he knows well from the

opinion polls that the SNP is currently more popular than the

idea of independence. They have been trying to make this link ever

since 2007 between people's perceptions of the SNP as a

government and the arguments in favour of independence. We will

wait to see if he is more successful this time around. I

think that was an indeed -- bed good way to make his point heard.

He said home-rule undimmed independence beats Tory rule. What

is home rule and the independence? He is borrowing a phrase that the

Liberal Democrats used, home rule. In a sense there is an implication

that he is trying to acquire some of the language that has been used

in favour of various varieties of more devolution and in a sense

trying to associate them with independence and say to people that

if you are wanting a stronger Scotland this is what you go for.

He did very carefully talk about the issues of foreign affairs in

defence which are very much to do with independence. I think his

argument at the end of the day was won for independence and not just

for devolution. Ahead of local elections there were a few

sweeteners will people. 600 hours of free nursery education, a legacy

fund for the Commonwealth Games. The idea of in any way requiring

young people to do any kind of work without being paying for it has

certainly got the UK government in hot water, one assumes the SNP will

not make that mistake. On child care, he said the SNP would

legislators 600 hours of free child care as compared with 475 at the

moment, but did not tell us when it would happen. It may be that the

devil lies in the detail. The first half of the speech was the extent

to which it was an attack on the Labour Party. One thing we know

about why the SNP won last year was not simply because people thought

the SNP had done a good job, but because they had lost confidence in

the Labour Party. In truth, we saw in this strong attack on the Labour

Party they hope that people will again say, we look at the SNP and

the Labour Party and think the SNP are better. I think he's trying to

build that momentum. Which was crucial to the opinion polls.

you very much. I am joined from Glasgow by the SNP's Deputy Leader

Nichola Sturgeon. Thank you very much for joining me. For those

people listening to that speech and perhaps anxious about independence

and the referendum, there was really nothing new there about

independence for people anxious for more information it was almost more

about local government elections, wasn't it? I thought there was a

very strong theme running through the first Minister's speech and

that was to remind people of all of the areas of Scottish life where we

already are to all intents and purposes independent. Whether that

is it my own area all education or justice. To say that we take better

decisions in areas with independent, so from that, let us be confident

that the decisions we will take with independence and other areas

will be equally good am equally better. I think it is a strong and

compelling theme, we are not starting from scratch in the

independence debate, we already have vital powers, but to transform

our country and build a fairer society we need powers over economy

and international representation as well. It sounds a bit like this has

been a major theme of the conference, don't scare the horses,

try to reassure people about independence. Just before the

speech there was a debate in the Social Union trying to emphasise

that the rest of the UK would not be broken, this is a big problem

for the SNP, isn't it? A I don't think so. Our opponents are

pejorative in the language that they used to talk about the economy.

People across Scotland understand, appreciate and value the strong

links that we have with the other countries in these islands. Social

links, cultural links, family links. Independence does not break those,

if anything it makes them stronger because it creates a partnership of

equals between Scotland and the rest of the United Kingdom. We will

continue to share -- shared among the key and currency. What Scotland

gets with independence is the powers that are vital to create an

economy that is growing, a country that is prosperous and also a

country that is much fairer than it is just now. It is that message,

that combination of protecting and valuing these things that matter

about the relationship between different countries, but also

stressing what we get with independence, that I think is

If you are emphasising all the social connections, one wonders

what the point of independence is? Pointing out about the bank bail-

out, how an independent Scotland and the rest of the UK would have

come together to bail out the banks. If we have got all the connections,

what is the point? Brian Taylor is close by so I had better make sure

I get this correct. What I was saying and did his point out the

importance and joint interest of the Benelux countries. How clear it

is in the interest of countries of the UK as happens across the world,

they will come together and work together. What Scotland gets with

independence is vital fiscal powers, economic powers, the right to speak

with our own voice. The nuclear weapons on the Clyde, these are

important matters for many people across our country. Those PoW was

are very limited -- those powers. Terms dictated by the Bank of

England and the English Prime Minister. With the greatest of

respect, that is not what the First Minister said. He said that an

independent Scotland would exercise fiscal discipline like any

responsible, independent country should do. We have no difficulty

with that. The SNP Government in a devolved Parliament has exercised

that discipline in Barlaston our budget every single year. -- in

balancing our budget. We would get the powers to borrow which we could

do with now to grow our economy. To grow vast energy wealth in an oil

fund like Independent Norway has done, the power to give incentives

to some of our key industries to use tax and give ourselves a

competitive edge. These are all vital powers that only come with

independence. In trusting hearing what the First Minister was saying,

that independence was an adequate just yes vote away". Is that a

telling point? That there will not be a devo-max question in the

ballot paper? In the midst of a consultation, we are in. The First

Minister has it again that we believe in independence. We want to

win with the yes vote. The independence question is one we

bought -- one we want on the ballot paper. Other people favour other

questions but it is not right to rule it out at this stage. We are

democrats and we think the decision should live with other people and

we think it is right to consider at this stage whether there is that

demand to have another option on the ballot paper. My colour

Sturgeon, thank you for taking the time to speak to us. -- Nicola

Sturgeon. We are joined by Professor John Curtice. Nicola

Sturgeon just made that point, just yes vote away in the speech.

truth, clearly the SNP do now want to try to raise people's hopes and

expectations. To that audience. That is an audience many of whom

have spent many years campaigning for independence and now finally

they can think they have got the prospect of trying to get a

referendum on this subject. One also has to say, that together with

many other parts of the speech were classic Alex Salmond. One of his

great strengths is his continual ability to convey a sense of hope

and optimism to his audience and I think that was a classic example.

Trying to say to people but there are problems with the economy and

difficulties, young people, too many of them are out of work but we

can see a brighter future. People may not buy into it but it is

undoubtedly one of his strengths, to continually convey that

optimistic message of our future. Thank you, John. Over to the hall

now where Brian has some delegates in the hall after the leader's

And MSP and an MEP, have managed to gather two of them. Positing a

dichotomy between independence on the one hand and the Tories on the

other. Your opponents would say that is bogus, a choice between

independence and dibbled self government, not Tory Government

from Westminster. I think what the First Minister's message made very

clear, there is clearly a dichotomy in terms of delivery of services.

What we deliver as a devolved nation and what is delivered down

south. He was describing what could happen if we have the power over

some of the other factors. Where currently we allow a Conservative

Government which cannot be trusted on other elements of public sector

things, to take Scotland's decisions for us. But the choice,

is it a legitimate argument? Your opponents would certainly say that.

He said lots of things and the fact is we have had a taste of

independence with devolution. If our health service or education

service was under Westminster control, we would have a very

different, negative set up. Devolution and a taste of

independence has given as that and it is about Tory rule versus home

rule with independent. Any party in Scotland would make a better fist

of things than a Westminster government. He talked about being

engaged rather than isolated. The vendors of the UK Government stance

would say it is not the case. fisheries policy, other policies,

there are systems going forward. We can do better at going forward on

our two feet. At the top table making our and points. 2014, no

specifics on whether it is two questions, one question. What is

your view? They Clear position is that we are a party campaigning for

independence but to recognise that there are the voices that must be

heard in this debate and that there is a grandeur of the opinion that

says a second question should be placed on the ballot -- if there is

a groundswell of opinion, then we should put it. We are running out

of time, thank you and indeed for joining us. Back to the studio for

STUDIO: More conference analysis tomorrow on the Sunday politics

with Isobel Fraser. For from the SNP conference here,

Alex Salmond joins us live. How materialistic and your children?

And a Nobel prizewinner tells how many things could work for Scotland.

Let's go back to Brian for more It is a busy time. We promise to

mayhem and confusion and we are delivering. Joined by two

colleagues from Her Majesty's press corps. The singer of earlier, a

wonderful song, great stuff. What did you make of the harmonies come

in from Alex Salmond? I have not heard him make a speech like that

before. It was like a Soviet tractor figure. So many figures

being bandied around, no usual knockabout stuff because he is in

power now and can deliver things. The nursery education and 5 million

for youth unemployment. Sorry that should have been youth employment.

Tom Gordon, what about this key element, the Independent on the one

hand, Tory rule on the other. Quite a seductive and appealing argument.

It is not a personality contest between the current Scottish First

Minister and the current UK Prime Minister, and separately,

independence would be for hundreds of years not just the immediate